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Comments on: Zire Was Best-Selling Holiday Handheld

According to market-information company The NPD Group, the Palm Zire handheld was the best-selling PDA in U.S. channels during the fourth quarter of 2002 -- accounting for 13 percent of unit sales. Additionally, the five top-selling handhelds during the quarter all were Palm branded products, accounting for 46 percent of all units sold.
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WOW!

Mr T @ 2/6/2003 4:08:31 PM #
"the five top-selling handhelds during the quarter all were Palm branded products, accounting for 46 percent of all units sold."

Does this include Sony or Handspring?

EITHER WAY PALM IS DOOMED.......

I just had to throw that in since PPC People are always predicting doom and gloom for palm and now a $99 pda is Kicking their collective A$$E$.

Way to go Palm OS!



RE: WOW!
TobyG @ 2/6/2003 4:51:06 PM #
No, it only includes Palm _branded_ PDAs (not PalmOS licensees), so yes, yet again, irrefutable proof that PALM IS 'DOOMED'. ;)

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: WOW!
Trilobyte @ 2/6/2003 5:48:55 PM #
Guesstimating from the number and various info, T|T entire 4th quarter number is about 110K units, or about 50-55K units/months (Nov/Dec) worldwide.

Dell sells 55K in 3 weeks of Dec US direct sale only. h1910 figures unknown.

RE: WOW!
krosfyah @ 2/6/2003 6:23:35 PM #
Yea, that sounds credible. Care to share any of your sources?
RE: WOW!
M3wThr33 @ 2/6/2003 7:50:37 PM #
46 Percent on Palm alone. Add in Samsung, Handspring, Sony and Kycoera's sales and look at the PPC margin shrink once again. ... ... and handera, too. ;-)

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: WOW!
pen_n_paper @ 2/7/2003 6:27:04 AM #
Hmm i dunno about palm being DOOMED.....people would most likely buy from them because Palm actually produced PalmOS

----------------------------------------
Join my forums and read my reviews at,
www.pants-onfire.2ya.com
Current reviews,
TT,Zire,NX60/NX70v
RE: WOW!
TobyG @ 2/7/2003 9:39:23 AM #
"Guesstimating from the number and various info, T|T entire 4th quarter number is about 110K units, or about 50-55K units/months (Nov/Dec) worldwide.

Dell sells 55K in 3 weeks of Dec US direct sale only. h1910 figures unknown."

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how it's a bad thing that a unit which went for ~$500 during that period would be selling roughly the same units per period by itself as _2_ units combined going for ~$200 and ~$250 after rebates.

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown

RE: WOW!
TobyG @ 2/7/2003 9:46:44 AM #
"Hmm i dunno about palm being DOOMED"

heh...both people who stated that were kidding. ;)

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown

Can not believe that!

achen @ 2/6/2003 4:32:00 PM #
Zire, so lacking of functionality and expandability, being the best-Selling PDA?

I can't believe that..

Most buyer must be buying this as gift or it's their first time using a PDA, don't understand how less they can do with 16MHz CPU with 2MB RAM, no expantion memory slot and small, poor screen.


------ achen@clie.info ------
Why get Palm when you can get a Clie?

RE: Can not believe that!
achen @ 2/6/2003 4:35:32 PM #
Well.. I mean.. even a SONY Clie S300 (which came out TWO YEARS AGO) is better than Zire in all respect!

Dont mention the later modles S320 / S360 at the same price at Zire (at this moment) to have larger, brighter screen, large momory and expantion slot!

Why would you buy a Zire ??



------ achen@clie.info ------
Why get Palm when you can get a Clie?

RE: Can not believe that!
Maccool @ 2/6/2003 4:40:33 PM #
I think this shows all readers of this site and techno-sobs in these forums where these companies want to get most of their revenue, from normal people. Palm's simplicity of design and ease of use will always sell more units than the lastest and fastest (ie: pricey) handhelds.

Thank God for the Zen of Palm.

RE: Can not believe that!
hkklife @ 2/6/2003 4:42:53 PM #
It's not the CPU speed or even the lack of ram--thre are some days when I sit there trying to clean up lingering remnants of long-deleted apps and having to suffer through various crashes caused by buggy beta programs, that I sometimes wish I nothing more to deal with than the apps in ROM, PalmReader Pro, and maybe a game or two. I have an ancient PalmPilot Pro (upgraded with ram/IR upgrade back) that would theoretically still be perfect for basic organizational tasks. It has a backlight, runs on dispsable batteries, and has a full set of hardware buttons. What more can you ask for in a basic Palm device? Until the Zire can somehow squeeze in at least 2 of the above 3 "necessities" and still be reasonably profitable for Palm at an MSRP of <$100, I won't be recommending it to anyone. I'll keep telling 'em to get a SL10 Sony or find an m125 or IIIxe on E-Bay.


RE: Can not believe that!
xolstis @ 2/6/2003 5:18:30 PM #
Aww come on no matter what u think achen its very plain to see a lot of ppl have bought the zire. Now of course most of the PIC members here probably laughs off at the specs of a zire but imagine the first time PDA users, students with limited budgets. I am not sure how the SL10 measures up in pricing against the zire in the US, but over here I think the zire is in a class of its own in pricing and thats what makes it popular as a FIRST HANDHELD. If you would re-read the article again paying more attention you would see that 90% of zire buyers are first time PDA owners EXACTLY AS PALM PREDICTED. They are targeting 1st time owners so if you don't like it just don't get it.... get their T|T thats what its there for.

-the harbinger-
RE: Can not believe that!
amflores @ 2/6/2003 6:25:30 PM #
At my work the gave all the assistant engineers a Zire as a xmax gift. Joyfully, I showed them many nice apps. and games to install and even connected one to the net through a cell phone, but it was really hard to get their interest.

Anyhow, no matter how limited we may think the Zire is, all of the guys are more than ok with them and are not really interested in something more advanced -they just use it for PIM, even a guy uses his HP-48s calculator for that! I hardly belived it-

Regarding why not getting a clie, well, you donīt get them here in Costa Rica

So, there you have 4 Zires and 4 happy users (and mostly empty 2megs each)

RE: Can not believe that!
krosfyah @ 2/6/2003 6:26:29 PM #
My dad bought a Zire because it DOESN'T have the extra RAM, expansion, etc. That was too complicated for him. He just wanted to keep phone numbers and dates.

All that "fancy" stuff is too much. Just give me a basic one.

Of course, I love my TT w/ the new audio patch.

RE: Can not believe that!
Jonathan_2k1 @ 2/6/2003 6:28:33 PM #
Thank you very much, xolstis. Palm is aiming the Zire at people who aren't megahertz maniacs, or in need of color, MP3, Bluetooth, WiFi,etc. Now to us medium-to-heavy power users, 2mb and 16mHz may seem pathetic, but that's not what Joe Sixpack is looking for. No, he just wants something to replace his Daytimer or Filofax. He doesn't care about SD or MS or CF or Universal Connector. The Zire is a BASIC PDA. Let me repeat that. BASIC PDA. Now, if you don't think 2mb is almost all of the storage you will never need (Unlike me, I have a IIIe and only wish it had 4mb of ram and flash rom) then you can frolic with your NX, NR or TT by your side, or whichever handheld suits you. Don't bash Palm because a model not indended for you does not appeal to you.

________________________________________
I've been working with computers for 1/4 of my life. Beat that.
RE: Can not believe that!
adamrichman @ 2/6/2003 9:24:29 PM #
You guys don't see the point in why Palm released the Zire, it knew, as well as all the thinking people here, that it would be the best selling PDA, especialy right before the holidays.

It attacked the market that most people fall into. Of course the TT or some Sony device isn't going to be the top-seller, it's targetted towards the high-end users, of which there are only few. There are thousands and thousands more soccer-mom type people that would love a Palm but never thought they were affordable. While in Wal-Mart, their husband noticed it and purchased it for their mom. And since they were so cheap, he got his son one too.

Palm's smart and defintely not doomed as mentioned before.

RE: Can not believe that!
hotpaw4 @ 2/6/2003 10:40:13 PM #
someone wrote:
>Zire, so lacking of functionality and expandability, being the best-Selling PDA?
>
>I can't believe that..

Just goes to show that extra functionality and expandability are not the feature that a huge portion of the potential market wants most. They just want a very low purchase price for an easy-to-use connected organizer.

For personal handhelds, a low price beats high MHz. A local store has Zire's on sale for under $80.

makes perfect sense
mj6798 @ 2/7/2003 8:35:10 AM #
I think given the current state of PalmOS, the Zire makes perfect sense: Palm OS is good for calendaring, todo lists, and simple note taking. The Zire is perfect for that. You don't need a bigger screen or more memory than the Zire comes with.

When/if Palm ever comes out with a fully multitasking OS capable of running fully ARM-native applications, then hardware like the TT makes sense. Until then, the TT is a luxury item--more a piece of jewelry than a sensible handheld.

RE: Can not believe that!
orb2069 @ 2/7/2003 8:26:07 PM #
Well.. I mean.. even a SONY Clie S300 (which came out TWO YEARS AGO) is better than Zire in all respect!

...Untill, of course, you drop them onto a concrete floor.

Then the Sony's screen is broke, and the Zire is just fine. That plexi top-screen absorbs a LOT of damage - I've seen a friend drop his M100 from +10' up, and say 'Toss that up to me.' without any concerns.

Take a look in the Graveyard, I bet it'll back me up.



Depending on perspective, it's either great or terrible news

hkklife @ 2/6/2003 3:57:16 PM #
Warning: Highly Flammable Personal Opions to follow!

In the PDA world, this is basically akin to Maxim being named best new publication, XXX being the top-grossing film of 2002, and any variety of reality TV programs being the #1 viewer's choice.

That said, it's nice to see Palm on top of the charts again in any way, shape, or form. Of course, I also thought 4 months ago that we'd start to hear rumbling of a Zire 2 long before a newer revision of the T|T

I also have to wonder on how the legions of new Palm users who have *JUST* begun to come to terms with Grafitti on their Zires (received on Dec. 25th no less) will feel when they are ready for something more capable and find nothng than a slew of Grafitti 2 models on store shelves. Palm may actually have done themselves some damage as far as the repeat buyers looking to upgrade are concerned--by not holding off on the Zire until the transition to G2 was complete they stand to anger some folks out there. Sorta like if a family bought a 2nd Dell for their kids 6 months after buying their first and opened the box and exclaimed "Dude, we got a dvorak keyboard!"

Nevertheless, any Palm sale over a PPC or a $40 electronic diary is preferable for all of us PIC readers, so this there's a silver lining in all of this. But I still maintain, as I did months ago when the Zire's specs were leaked that an m100 with OS 4.1 the UC replacing the serial port would have been sufficient. I have to wonder what would've been costlier long term: the R&D & rechargable battery costs of the Zire or the higher component costs of another m1xx-style handheld, whose design was paid for years ago.

Price drops on SONY S-series today

robrecht @ 2/6/2003 4:56:37 PM #
Check out the price reductions on the SONY SJ series today on SONY's website. Courtesy of PDABuzz

Thanks, Robrecht

I'm too right

abosco @ 2/6/2003 6:30:11 PM #
I am. Come on, if anybody gives a damn and pays attention to what I say, I'm totally right on a lot of this stuff. I said the Zire will be THE most popular handheld ever. Guess what? It's the most popular handheld ever. I said Axim sales wouldn't be nearly as good as this. People got all up on my case for this. Telling me I'm an idiot, trying to tell me all these MHz the Axim has. Well guess what? I was right on that too. Even the TT outsold the Axim.

Alright, I think it's fitting enough for me to call myself a ~TRUE~ Handheld Analyst. *Applause*

And for my next prediction - Dell will enter the Palm OS market and try to undermine the soul of PPC, HPQ. Get rid of HP, you'll get rid of PPC. Dell is completely aiming for HP, and they already did a considerable blow to them with the Axim. If they release a one-two punch by licensing Palm OS and distributing a 320x480 Dell with 32 MB RAM and OS 5 and not failing to include a full SDIO slot and CF II slot at $399, say bye-bye to half the PPC market and followers. It's all a simple matter of if Dell really intends to make money and try and beat HP at their own games.

I'm going to bookmark this page and then point at it in future articles like within the next few months' article "Dell Licenses Palm OS".

Alright, I've bragged enough for one day. I'm good.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: I'm too right
Trilobyte @ 2/6/2003 7:26:29 PM #
Weren't you the one who said Tungsten will never hit $350-399 well until the end of the year?

I'll give you a better prediction, since I too can call myself a true PDA analyst, Tungsten will drop under top 20 in PDA sale chart by this year holiday buying season. Average selling price of Palm product will remain flat or go down this year with sale of $350 plus units remain weak.

RE: I'm too right
T|T rocks @ 2/6/2003 7:54:53 PM #
Where's SKA? I miss him. :-)

--
People who want to share their PPC views with you almost
never want you to share your POS views with them.
RE: I'm too right
Timothy Rapson @ 2/6/2003 8:37:51 PM #
Wow, do I wish this prediction comes true. The Dell would be a great buy with Palm OS. I could buy one for everyone in my family if they were out with Palm OS for the same $175 they were selling for last month.


And the Dell Palm OS model you describe might get me to sell my Clie NR70V and trade up.

Dell reps have made a lot of statements that they might offer a Palm OS models, but I just don't see it happening.

As for your claim that the Dell is selling poorly. Sorry Abosco. The Dell PPC Axim sold very well at Christmas and is now sold out according to actual people (at least if you believe people you know on the Web are real. I do). But it is not included in these retail numbers and if Dell sold 1 million of them in a week Palm would still show up as outselling them retail.



RE: I'm too right
abosco @ 2/6/2003 8:50:39 PM #
"The Dell PPC Axim sold very well at Christmas and is now sold out according to actual people (at least if you believe people you know on the Web are real. I do). But it is not included in these retail numbers and if Dell sold 1 million of them in a week Palm would still show up as outselling them retail."

Hold on there just a second. Dell made limited quantities of their Axims. THAT'S why they sold out.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: I'm too right
Trilobyte @ 2/6/2003 9:24:51 PM #
Limited quantity of 55K/month. Interesting concept. By that perspective, T|T should be a collector item limited edition model.
RE: I'm too right
xolstis @ 2/6/2003 9:30:29 PM #
Dell going with palmOS? I dun see why not = ). I am rather surprised they actually took sides with PPC to begin with was expecting them to jump on the palm bandwagon since hearing their announcement to join the PDA foray. ANd yea they are really gunning down on HPQ in a big way. HPs getting rather pissed I think, first PCs, then notebooks, then PDAs, have heard rumuors that they will be into the printer market as well pretty soon. And they already have servers...

-the harbinger-
RE: I'm too right
gfunkmagic @ 2/6/2003 10:59:59 PM #
Quote: "I said Axim sales wouldn't be nearly as good as this. People got all up on my case for this. Telling me I'm an idiot, trying to tell me all these MHz the Axim has. Well guess what? I was right on that too. Even the TT outsold the Axim."

Abosco, you're do full of it its pathetic. Please according to you, Dell wouldn't be able to sell any handhelds at all through the direct channel!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8908

You're self-proclaimed "analyst" title is as absurd as Micheal Jackson's face (whew did anyone see that documentry)! Let me remind you that you failed to acknowledge that Dell could sell the Axim well online. In fact they sold over 50K in just 3 weeks last December and have so much demand that they can't even fullfill orders causing more than several weeks of delay.

The "De-Zire" for PalmSG's little paper replacement is good. But it is NOT the savior of PalmSG, far from it. The point of the Zire was to maitain PalmSG's dominance of the low end of the market, which they have always owned. It was a successfull attempt to stave off future competiton of low cost PPC's which will be bombarding consumers soon. The real issue is how PalmSG will respond to new cut-throat competition in the mid-range and high end where things ar not as rosy. Whether these "new" palm users will upgrade to midrange or high end models remains to been seen. The truth is that while Palm SG controls the low end, many PPC's control the enterpirse or high end. Where in the spectrum would you want to be? PalmSG has a gap in thier mid-range lineup right now that they need to address. Lets see if they can prove something there before we proclaim anything...

Dell is a Microsoft slave and will not switch sides
jbeedham @ 2/6/2003 11:19:58 PM #
Don't expect to sell a Dell Palm anytime soon. Dell must remain exclusively with Microsoft if they want to keep the good relationship they have. Microsoft has good control over Dell.

RE: I'm too right
abosco @ 2/7/2003 12:06:48 AM #
"Don't expect to sell a Dell Palm anytime soon. Dell must remain exclusively with Microsoft if they want to keep the good relationship they have. Microsoft has good control over Dell."

I think this is BS. Look at Sony. Palm OS all the way and then look at their Vaio - Windows. It CAN be done.

Gfunk, weren't you the one who was arguing with me that the Axim would kill the m130? And wasn't I the one that told you it won't do nearly as good as it potentially could due to only selling it online? If that 55k number is indeed correct, that's very low for a $199 device with that sort of feature set. Am I wrong? I'm dead on, come on, admit it. It's dumb for them to apply their "direct" approach to PDA's because PDA's need to be actually tested out before bought. THAT is the difference between a PDA and a computer, laptop, server, printer, etc.

So, once again, the Axim was a great idea, but just selling it on the net was a huge mistake. Yeah yeah, talk about how it sold out, but keep in mind they DID make limited quanitities of it. If the Zire was like that, it'd be backordered by 150,000 people, according to the numbers.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: I'm too right
Emma @ 2/7/2003 2:35:36 AM #
gfunkmagic: "The truth is that while Palm SG controls the low end, many PPC's control the enterpirse or high end"

Well, sorry to dissapoint you. That isn't the truth. Take a lot at the stats again. Palm (as in the device and OS) controls ALL segments of the market (low end, mid end, hi end, enterprise). Forget the spin and read the numbers.

The fact is that the PPC market is shrinking (after an initial spurt of growth). Even Gartner has now shut up and stopped predicting the imminent demise of Palm. Folks like you still just don't get it.

RE: I'm too right
talos4 @ 2/7/2003 7:36:11 AM #

Dell sell a PalmOS handheld ? What planet have you been living on. Michael Dell is a long time Bill Gates kool-aid drinker. Dell was the *only* major PC manufacturer that testified on M$ behalf in the anti trust case - some say in return for sweetheart licensing deals. I wouldn't hold my breath for a Dell branded Palm.

RE: I'm too right
Fly-By-Night @ 2/7/2003 7:37:47 AM #
I can't see Dell making their own PalmOS devices. Ask Michael Dell what happened to their much vaunted Linux offering (see amusing article at The Reg here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24478.html).

If Dell started trying to undermine PPC, M$ would send in Steve 'The Bully' Balmer to threaten Dell with various restrictions on licensing Windows for Desktops and Servers. There goes Dell's profit. Sony on the other hand make a tiny profit on Vaios in comparison to their M$ free offerings; so are not easy to scare.

FBN

-----
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

RE: I'm too right
abosco @ 2/7/2003 3:25:59 PM #
Dell is in there to make money. It's weird that they're losing money on their Axims in order to make a name for themselves in that bland PPC market, but that must be their strategy. What's preventing them from selling both PPC and Palm OS PDA's? MicroShaft hasn't done anything to Sony with their Windows license as far as I know, and Sony makes some incredibly cool Vaios.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

customer loyalty

awdr @ 2/7/2003 10:27:37 AM #
They made a lot of people using a cheap PDA, they might say: Okay the Zire was nice for the beginning, lets change to a proper PDA,a PocketPC.

Lets hope that palms marketing department has the right strategies to convince Zire owners to be future palm customers!!!!!


RE: customer loyalty
polymath @ 2/7/2003 2:07:27 PM #
No need to worry. Once you get used to Palm's simplicity and speed, you don't want to change over to PPC.

RE: customer loyalty
kisrael @ 2/10/2003 4:52:52 PM #
Yeah, simplicity and speed.

And don't underestimate just being familiar with the apps! Both the builtins and any special programs.

I hope "graffiti 2" doesn't throw these conservative folk for too much of a loop :-)

Personally, I think one of the secrets to Zire's success, besides the obvious price point (but still okeedokee as a humble organizer) is the packaging...it sounds shallow, but the blister pack invites people to see it, and think of it as a more casual puchase, like a walkman. It's not some box hidden behind the shelf, it's right there in the open.

I wouldn't overstate the packaging, but I think a lot of people aren't giving it enough credit.

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