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Comments on: RealOne Player Officially Debuts

The RealOne Player Mobile for the Palm Tungsten T is now officially available. RealOne Mobile Player enables RealAudio and MP3 audio support for the Tungsten T handheld.
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So, does this only work with the TT?

I.M Anonymous @ 3/17/2003 9:06:41 PM #
And if it does, does that mean that it uses the TT's DSP?

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
Admin @ 3/17/2003 9:08:06 PM #
Yes, it's only for the Tungsten T at this point, not sure about the DSP.
RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
TobyG @ 3/17/2003 9:24:05 PM #
No, it doesn't use the DSP any more than the other two players. Decoding of the MP3 is handled by the ARM core. Raw stream playback is handled by the DSP. Same as Aeroplayer and Pocket-Tunes.

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
HandAble @ 3/17/2003 10:48:14 PM #
DSP is only for the actual audio playback, not decoding. The audio APIs for the Tungsten play via the DSP chip... so it would take extra work to make it NOT use DSP.. and I cannot fathom why anyone would want to do that.

Decoding the format (MP3 or whatever) is best left for the ARM processor.. and if it is done in native ARM, should be plenty fast for the decode.

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
golalmo @ 3/18/2003 2:45:03 AM #
Well, if it is only desined for the ARM cpu's, why can't this work on the Clie NX/NZ series?

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
hotpaw4 @ 3/18/2003 4:32:29 AM #
>Well, if it is only desined [sic] for the ARM cpu's, why can't this work on the Clie NX/NZ series?

Sony didn't implement the OS 5 sampled sound manager on the NX; you can use the ARM CPU to decode mp3's, but there's no official way to get the results to the speaker.

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
hotpaw4 @ 3/18/2003 4:35:44 AM #
> Decoding the format (MP3 or whatever) is best left for the ARM processor.
RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
hotpaw4 @ 3/18/2003 4:36:47 AM #
someone wrote:
> Decoding the format (MP3 or whatever) is best left for the ARM processor.

Not necessarily true. The C5XX DSP inside the OMAP might be able to do mp3 decoding faster and using less battery power than the ARM9 CPU. The DSP runs at a higher clock rate (200 MHz vs. 144 MHz) and has much faster multipliers. You could put mp3 playing in the background with much less of a slow down of the foreground app.

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
asiayeah @ 3/18/2003 9:25:05 AM #
So is there any plan from any mp3 player that uses the DSP chip on the Tungsten for mp3 decoding?

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: So, does this only work with the TT?
TobyG @ 3/18/2003 9:51:54 AM #
"So is there any plan from any mp3 player that uses the DSP chip on the Tungsten for mp3 decoding?"

This is wholly dependent on Palm SG. PalmSource has implemented an Extended sound call in OS 5.2 now which can offload both decode and play functions to a stream. However, it's up to the hardware makers to implement it for their hardware. If they updated their halsnd_dsplib to include support for MP3 and/or OGG decode and playback, then the software makers could update their MP3 players to support it.

Killed the cat

abosco @ 3/17/2003 9:13:12 PM #
Just out of curiosity, is this better or worse than AeroPlayer/Pocket Tunes?

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Killed the cat
TobyG @ 3/17/2003 9:25:25 PM #
Quality is roughly the same. Interface from an actual usability perspective is poorer than both, AFAIC. If you don't own either, the Linux download will give you a free player without Real's desktop, but considering that both the pay solutions for the T|T are about on par with the included players in other PDAs, this one will undoubtedly draw derision from other PDA owners (that's not even taking into account sound quality).

RE: Killed the cat
NikMan @ 3/18/2003 4:19:58 AM #
AeroPlayer is the best. I have used Real beta and final and it sux. Aero has great skin support and playlist accessible right away. Pocket tunes has a bad playlist.

RE: Killed the cat
Ben S @ 3/18/2003 8:40:52 AM #
And remember... AeroPlayer is free if you don't want/need MP3 playback (OGG is better, thank you very much).

RE: Killed the cat
cypher76 @ 3/18/2003 9:56:10 AM #
> And remember... AeroPlayer is free if you don't want/need MP3 playback (OGG is better, thank you very much).

OGG will not be "better" than MP3 until the majority of portable music players support OGG. The vast majority of consumers still use MP3, and regardless of audio encoding, MP3 is the standard.

RE: Killed the cat
Fammy @ 3/18/2003 10:36:57 AM #
"better" is subjective. I believe he was talking about "better" sounding or "better" compressed. In that case, Ogg could be "better" than MP3. MP3 is far more universal. That could be "better" too. Depends on the viewpoint.

_____
Fammy
RE: Killed the cat
lwehrung @ 3/18/2003 11:49:21 AM #
Nikman, you mentioned...

"AeroPlayer is the best. I have used Real beta and final and it sux. Aero has great skin support and playlist accessible right away. Pocket tunes has a bad playlist."

I would agree that AeroPlayer and Pocket Tunes are superior to the Real One Player. At the same time, I would pick Pocket Tunes over AeroPlayer.

With the latest version (1.7.2), Pocket Tunes supports playlists. In addition, Pocket Tunes is faster navigating through the playlists and changing playlists. I also like the options you have for accessing the control pad in Pocket Tunes while in other applications. Another big plus for me, Pocket Tunes does not crash when downloading messages on my TT using VersaMail via Bluetooth.

All in all, it is a matter of preference, but Pocket Tunes is worth a look. I prefer it! You might, too!

As always, just my humble opinion...

http://www.wehrungonline.com/palmos/

RE: Killed the cat
tl47 @ 3/18/2003 12:00:20 PM #
I think OGG is better because it's free :). Anyway, I use Linux, and I'm perfectly happy with converting to Ogg. Although I used MP3s (and have a car MP3 player and portable MP3 devices), I seem to be slowly switching to Ogg, especially with support now on my Zaurus and now on my Tungsten T. I wish Sony would support Ogg too... it doesn't cost them any per unit price.

RE: Killed the cat
tthiel @ 3/18/2003 2:20:57 PM #
Has Real ever done anything that hasn't sucked???

Prelimary Performance Comparison with Aeroplayer

asiayeah @ 3/17/2003 9:26:41 PM #
Hi,

I've performed a brief performance comparison of RealOne Player with AeroPlayer.

While playing music in background, the Aeroplayer consumes less CPU power and the foreground applications run much less chunky.

For one particular video clips, I played mp3 in background with each audio player and measures the playback performance of the Kinoma Player. Here's the result for one particular mp3 file and one particular video clip,

AeroPlayer RealPlayer
44.2fps 33fps

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Prelimary Performance Comparison with Aeroplayer
McMagnus @ 3/18/2003 2:57:36 AM #
I got similar results using the program "Benchmark" by Quartus. It measures speed compared to a stock Palm V I think.

No player: 275%
PocketTunes: 132%
RealPlayer: 90%

I don't have AeroPlayer right now but that was almost identical to PocketTunes.

Real's shortcoming is probably due to a low-pass filter that seems to cut off pretty much everything above 17kHz. See http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11760 for charts.

RE: Prelimary Performance Comparison with Aeroplayer
i @ 3/18/2003 9:48:18 AM #
Look at the desktop version. That, too, is a resource hog. I didn't expect their Palm version to be any different.
RE: Prelimary Performance Comparison with Aeroplayer
davechalmers @ 3/21/2003 3:43:21 AM #
Hey! my brand new T T is only running 255%!!

I've been cheated!! :-)

Seriously, how do I find out if there is stuff running in the background, that is slowing things down?

Dave

I am confused...

MV-Jon @ 3/17/2003 10:18:27 PM #
Didn't this come out the other day? I clicked on the link in the recent PIC quickies and downloaded this thing and have it on my T|T now.

Did I miss something or is this just the official press rollout?

--Jon

RE: I am confused...
rsc1000 @ 3/17/2003 10:37:03 PM #
Although it has been on Real's site for a number of days, this is the 'official' release announcement.

Has a couple of advantages

rsc1000 @ 3/17/2003 10:41:04 PM #
Although i don't understand how it is that a company with the resources that Real has (and presumably with the ability to tap Palm SG for help), can't seem to come up with a product that performs as efficiently as Aeroplayer or PocketTunes (both by small companies), there are none-the-less, a couple of advantages: its free and it plays RealAudio format. The ability to play real audio is something that is perhaps more usefull on PDAs then it is on the desktop because memory tends to be more of a precious commodity - and .ra files can be considerably smaller then mp3s.

Hopefully they fix the performance issue and get on with adding video to the feature-set.


RE: Has a couple of advantages
asiayeah @ 3/17/2003 11:14:21 PM #
Yes, the proud goes to the authors of AeroPlayer and PocketTunes. It's hard to see the performance of the RealOne Player, when it's got partnerships and technical information directly from Palm.com. Not to mention its 4-month delay.

I would feel happier if they also add the streaming features of audio files.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

So where is the Mac version?????

siralien @ 3/18/2003 1:50:01 AM #
A .sit file wouldn't have taken them very long to do. iTunes support would be nice, but I guess would have taken a little longer given that lack of documentation from Apple, but come on Real, I'm prepared to use HotSync to copy the files, slow as it is!

RE: So where is the Mac version?????
Nebrie @ 3/18/2003 2:32:01 AM #
The Mac version is on the download page. It's just the PRCs.

RE: So where is the Mac version?????
ElBee @ 3/18/2003 9:19:31 AM #
Just tried the mac link on the download page repeatedly. It's busted!

Us Mac users are strictly 3rd class citizens...

RE: So where is the Mac version?????
RiddlerG4 @ 3/18/2003 3:47:08 PM #
Just download the Linux version, it's the same as the Mac download just ZIPPED instead of STUFFED.

Why only audio?

Bandini @ 3/18/2003 5:52:40 AM #
I'm really disappointed.

This is a fine audio player for me, and I wouldn't pay for a better one, but I was expecting video playback.

The RealOne Mobile Player even plays video clips on the Nokia Communicator. Why not on my Tungsten|T?

RE: Why only audio?
JonathanChoo @ 3/18/2003 7:08:03 AM #
Well, it works as advertised. So there. However, yeah I do wish they have video support - but being a RealPlayer that would be crappy Real format. I heard that work has already begin in porting Pocket MVP (a multimedia player for PocketPC capable of playing Ogg, DivX and other formats) to PalmOS.

Current gadgets: Palm Tungsten T, HP Ipaq h5455, Ericsson T68

Screw Bush & Blair

RE: Why only audio?
Stratman25 @ 3/18/2003 10:18:00 AM #
Try Tealpoint's Tealmovie. It's OS 5 compatible and plays movies great (as I can expect from a PDA).

http://www.tealpoint.com

RE: Why only audio?
Sleuth255 @ 3/18/2003 10:30:07 AM #
Actually, you should try Kinoma if you really want to see how well movies play on a TT. The converter is 4 times faster and there's never a sound sync problem in the player

http://www.kinoma.com

RE: Why only audio?
rsc1000 @ 3/18/2003 10:50:38 AM #
>>Actually, you should try Kinoma if you really want to see how well movies play on a TT.

Yep - Tealmovie kind of blows by comparison. What i'm really waiting for is a player that will play avi & divx natively from the memory card. I'm sure we will see this soon - hopefully for free.

Real one leaves crud on your palm after being deleted

mikeso @ 3/18/2003 2:30:34 PM #
I did a quick install of the real one before deciding Aeroplayer is better but after deleting Real One I found one maybe more files which were leftovers and could not be removed without some work
RealOne_RNWK_app size 84 b for certain

I was able to remove the file with a file management program but only after a soft reset. Guess they are having a tough time breaking old habits got to leave a foot print behind when they have been on your machine It's worth the money to regiter Areoplayer just to know these guys are not in my system.


RE: Real one leaves crud on your palm after being deleted
Luka @ 3/18/2003 3:42:00 PM #
Is this not the stub that the Palm OS5 creates for EVERY installed app? And doesn't always delete when you delete the app?

For me this is the main problem with th 345 file problenm: with 100 installed apps one would have 200 files already...

Am I right about this?

Streaming file capture?

Stratman25 @ 3/18/2003 2:55:38 PM #
Does anyone have a solution for capturing streaming Real Audio files on the Palm? I know it's not supported by RealPlayer, but I wonder if anyone has tried this with any success.

Sound Volume Issues

pcrymble @ 3/19/2003 8:28:06 AM #
Hi

Just got Real Player and the Palm T Audio patch. Quality is good, especially on 192k MP3's.

The only issue is that the sound volume doesn't go loud enough. On the train etc. it can be difficult to hear. Any ideas? Are there any third party apps that can amplify the volume. I know Aero Player has a +5db option. Has anyone used this feature??

Peter

RE: Sound Volume Issues
Stratman25 @ 3/20/2003 6:31:14 PM #
I, too, am unhappy with the RealPlayer volume. Has anyone heard of a pre-amp that would plug in between the Tungsten and the headphones? Or is AeroPlayer loud enough with the 5db gain?
RE: Sound Volume Issues
pcrymble @ 3/20/2003 6:55:35 PM #
pockettunes has amplification but it can badly affect sound quality.

Peter

FYI - HotSync

mklein @ 3/19/2003 10:18:06 AM #
Aeroplayer continues to play while a HotSync is in progress. The RealOne Player stops playing when you press the HotSync button.

44k MP3s click ....except in realplayer

davechalmers @ 3/20/2003 12:40:22 PM #
Hi all,

Just to be wierd, I have found that any 44kHz MP3 played on aeroplayer or Pocket Tunes has random clicks etc. through it, while it plays OK on realplayer.

If I use a 22kHz MP3 it plays fine on all 3.

Anyone seen this problem with Aero or PT??

Is it just my TT?

RE: 44k MP3s click ....except in realplayer
TobyG @ 3/20/2003 12:57:03 PM #
Well, it's contrary to my experience, but not unheard of. Out of curiosity, have you run VFSMark on the card? What kind of card is it (Brand/size/MMC or SD)?

RE: 44k MP3s click ....except in realplayer
davechalmers @ 3/21/2003 4:07:01 AM #
Hey - good call. Hadn't thought that MMC performance would of course affect playback.

I ran VFSmark and got a 48% file read result and an overall VFSmark of 92, for the old 8MB Sandisk card I was using.

No idea how that compares, but at least it gives me a benchmark when I go card shopping - has to be better than 92, otherwise I may have problems.

Thanks a lot for the tip.

Dave


RE: 44k MP3s click ....except in realplayer
TobyG @ 3/21/2003 9:21:06 AM #
"Hey - good call. Hadn't thought that MMC performance would of course affect playback."

Well, I've not seen scores on a wide range of MMC cards, but scores like you recieved would seem predestined to cause problems whenever it has to move a high rate of data. It also seems that the other major click and pop story I heard was from someone with an MMC card (although they never revealed their VFS scores).

"I ran VFSmark and got a 48% file read result and an overall VFSmark of 92, for the old 8MB Sandisk card I was using."

Ouch. Just as a point of reference, the _worst_ file read result I've had on my SD cards is 127% with the worst overall VFSMark being 179.

"No idea how that compares, but at least it gives me a benchmark when I go card shopping - has to be better than 92, otherwise I may have problems."

I would be looking for something significantly better than 92 if I were you. Lexar 256MB SD cards which run a score of ~211 overall are found at places like buy.com and ecost.com in the US$65 range.

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