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Comments on: Palm OS 6 To Be Released in Late 2003

According to new statements out of PalmSource, Palm OS 6 will be released to licensees before the end of late 2003. The new version will focus on wireless technology standards, security and multimedia.

Update: Possible screen shots of Palm OS 6 have been posted.

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wireless , security and multimedia?

dhchung @ 5/7/2003 2:24:49 PM #
I can't think of anything of wireless other than 802.11 and BT..
For multimedia, palm already got a fast CPU, good speaker, and camera on their PDAs. what else can they add?
security? So what are the security holes Palm has so far?

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
xtremist5150 @ 5/7/2003 2:35:59 PM #
Methinks more security for Wi-Fi traffic, etc. Just because Palm has a good hardware setup with the Tungsten C for wireless right now doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement on the software side.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
JKingGrim @ 5/7/2003 2:40:56 PM #
>>I can't think of anything of wireless other than 802.11 and BT..

Hoping from one connection to another, protocols, ect.

>>For multimedia, palm already got a fast CPU, good speaker, and camera on their PDAs. what else can they add?

That does not mean it is as good as it can be. My guess is new UNIVERSAL APIs (meaning media players that work on every device), support for diffrent codecs, ect.

security? So what are the security holes Palm has so far?

A whimpy password is not good security. REAL 128 bit encrytion is security.

Did you really think the OS was perfect? Its good, but not perfect. Technology moves on, and operatins systems must keep up.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
xtremist5150 @ 5/7/2003 3:03:50 PM #
I have an excellent source who claims that OS 6 will be better than OS 5.

Shhhhh, don't tell anyone. Our little secret.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
cbowers @ 5/7/2003 5:09:47 PM #
There's lots of room to grow into in both wireless and security. It will be good to see some of the concepts discussed come to the platform. Code/message signing/verification, file permissions, better use of encryption.

As for wireless, at this point other there are multiple directions. Palm seems inclined to wait until cellphone chips come down to $10 and include them. But they might well in the short term, relent and include a CF slot, so that for *today* the user can choose best of breed solutions for themselves, and/or mix and match. For example the pocketPC camp can add a tri-band GSM phone to any CF slot:
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3542.html

But in the mid-term the better solution might be the now FCC approved software definable radio. It takes more horsepower and battery (but we have lot of both currently in the platform), but one DSP array can be any wireless technology, or given sufficient resource availability, be multiple wireless flavors at the same time.

Imagine now your PDA is a IS-95 or CDMA2000 phone by day with an office number, a GSM phone by night on a personal account, or when overseas on a trip. And all while offering BT and or WiFi in the background as needed.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
indesman @ 5/7/2003 5:27:49 PM #
I was thinking more along the lines of cellular as well. Maybe it could be a 2.4ghz mobile phone when in use around your house. I've long wanted a single device that would be programmable to accept multiple RF signals so I wouldn't have to have separate devices. When I'm working in the yard I'll sometimes have my cordless phone, baby monitor and radio. Wouldn't it be something if you could have a Palm phone be all of these at the same time? Of course I don't know squat about RF signal processing, antennas, etc.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
cbowers @ 5/7/2003 6:57:27 PM #
Funny how in some ways we've moved back in time with the loss of the HandEra 330, and HandSpring Visor lines, when it comes to expansion.

As for 2.4Ghz cordless phone around the house, there used to be just that, in fact, as a Visor springboard module from a local company. Pop it in, and voila, a cordless phone. Some of the models even gave internet data abilities to the Visor in addition.

RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
gfunkmagic @ 5/7/2003 11:09:32 PM #
Quote:
"I can't think of anything of wireless other than 802.11 and BT.."

Are you serious? How about 802.11b, 802.11g, 802.11a, other 802 stantards, BT, TDMA, GSM, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, CDMA, CDMA2000 1xRTT, CDMA2000 1xEvDo, CDMA 2000 1xEvDv, GMRS/FRS radios, 5.8 GHz DSS, 2.4 GHz DSS, 2.4 GHz, 900 MHz DSS/digital etc, DGPS, WAAS GPS, IR, FM modulators, various RF modulators, UWB or "sneaky wave" and on and on...


RE: wireless , security and multimedia?
gfunkmagic @ 5/8/2003 1:28:58 AM #
Oh, I forgot to add mobitex, and Huntec's Reflex netowrks as well...

Great News!

Verteron @ 5/7/2003 2:54:16 PM #
If PalmSource manage to pull this off well (what with the expertise from Be and all), things look bright for PalmOS devices future, I think...

My wish list of features would be:

- Improved support for WiFi, BT, and plug-in 3G and GPRS for devices that want to support it with seemless connection hopping
- Properly encrypted file system (Blowfish or similar at the file system level), WEP, RSA/DES for Internet security (SSL sockets)
- More optimisation for the ARM processors
- Support for 'real files' in internal RAM and hierarchical structure. Now we have 32MB and 64MB devices this will become important.
- Better multi-tasking (might have to wait until POS7 for this depending how much they've taken from BeOS...)

RE: Great News!
Take1 @ 5/8/2003 3:44:00 AM #
How about seamless program access to the SD/MS.. That's WAY overdue.

RE: Great News!
sthakor @ 8/25/2003 12:17:39 PM #
I've also heard that the Palm OS 6 would have support for Landscape Mose (Currently it only has support for Portrait Mode). The new Sony UX40/50 operates in Landscape Mode (I really like that). With the New APIs that Palm is going to put out, Developers of Palm OS will be able to take advantage of the Landscape Mode. Infact I've also heard that the Tungsten T3 (The one after Tungsten T2) would possibly have support for the Landscape Mode. Some apps make more sense to view/operate in Landscape Mode.

Palm OS 6

macfixer @ 5/7/2003 3:06:07 PM #
I'll just settle for the cool "yellow tab' look that made the BeOS so...'unique'

:)

K

RE: Palm OS 6
Verteron @ 5/7/2003 3:29:04 PM #
The strange thing is, the title bars of programs under both operating systems actually look quite similar :D

RE: Palm OS 6
NikMan @ 5/8/2003 7:40:29 AM #
I think Palm is sad, becouse the invested money in buying BeOS. I am pretty sure about that. It's allready old.



RE: Palm OS 6
MikeInDM @ 5/8/2003 8:50:38 AM #
"I think Palm is sad, becouse the invested money in buying BeOS. I am pretty sure about that. It's allready old."

Unless, of course, technology from BeOS was used to develop OS6.

Did you expect that they would just dump BeOS on a Palm device without modification or without making is compatable with the vast amount of software already written for OS 5 and earlier?

Possibly, if it hadn't been for the purchase of BeOS, OS 6 might be a couple of years away?

RE: Palm OS 6
NikMan @ 5/8/2003 1:45:51 PM #
I understand that, but 11million , they can produce better os by themselfs. It's handled not PC.

Well I beleive if they had another chance they wpuldn't buy Be. They would invest in better marketing and better UI on PalmOS 5.

And yes, UI could be better and i dont want to buy Aeroplayer, LauncherX.....ETC.

RE: Palm OS 6
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 3:57:51 PM #
>>It's allready old."

'Old' is PPC legacy win32 code bloating out every PPC device their is. My 144mhz OMAP driven T|T feels snappy compared to the latest PPC.

Multitasking?

Scott R @ 5/7/2003 3:09:34 PM #
Can anyone confirm for sure that OS6 will allow for multitasking?

Scott

RE: Multitasking?
xtremist5150 @ 5/7/2003 3:11:25 PM #
Yes OS 6 will allow multitasking. For instance, you can have your Palm device lock up intermittently on you while you're on the phone with tech support.

But don't tell anyone I told you. Shhhh, HUGE industry secret.

RE: Multitasking?
abosco @ 5/7/2003 5:32:15 PM #
Riiight. Palm OS 5 can actually selectively multitask, but OS 6 is supposed to support full multitasking, as in programs running in the background.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Multitasking?
Odyssey41 @ 5/7/2003 7:25:46 PM #
That thing about programs running in the background sounds to me like Pocket PC. Oh no! I just hope OS6 devices are stable. PPC, as many know, can be very unstable with lots of programs running in the background, forcing people to be aware of the need to close the programs every once in a while
RE: Multitasking?
Jim_G @ 5/8/2003 7:56:55 AM #
Don't think of PPC multitasking, think of EPOC/Symbian multitasking - rock solid. I've recently replaced my Psion 5 with a Tungsten|T, because the Psion was starting to fall apart. In six years of daily use I had to reset the Psion two, maybe three times.

RE: Multitasking?
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 6:26:59 PM #
I still don't think they understand they could have crushed Palm and gutted Microsoft if they had only added a portrait device to their lineup instead of stubbornly sticking to the keyboarded landscape units. EPOC/Symbian is a tragic case of what might have been. (But don't feel too sorry for them; they are coming on strong with cellphones, no?)

How about Java?

DessertProfessor @ 5/7/2003 3:23:07 PM #
I think Palm has been awfully quiet about progress on Java support for its platform. I had more or less expected it to be available for OS 5. Is there any word on built-in support for J2ME/PDAP in OS 6?

- Rene


RE: How about Java?
Be3G @ 5/7/2003 3:39:06 PM #
You can already get the J2ME for Palm OS from Sun's Java website. Also, the reason PalmSource may have been quiet about Java is because they were/are thinking about integrating M$'s Mobile .NET framework.

Thomas

Check out the Palm Tungsten|T review at www.comp-talk.co.uk

RE: How about Java?
Foo Fighter @ 5/7/2003 3:44:19 PM #
Where? I don't see anywhere to download J2ME on Sun's site.

RE: How about Java?
DessertProfessor @ 5/7/2003 3:50:39 PM #
Sun only has J2ME/MIDP 1.0 for Palm OS (java.sun.com/j2me, search for "Palm"). I'm more interestend in J2ME/PDAP, since it is supposed to be a tool for developing applications that are typical for PDAs. For instance, it offers easy access to the built-in calendar and address book databases.

RE: How about Java?
Fammy @ 5/7/2003 3:55:04 PM #
I doubt we will see .NET framework support. You know, Microsoft does make the OS for the competition.

Java support should be built in. Should have been in OS4. Should have been in OS5. If they build it in, the programs would run "faster" since they wouldn't need a interpreter (unless that what was built in). Apple did something similar for OS X.

_____
Fammy

RE: How about Java?
sr @ 5/7/2003 3:59:22 PM #
Palm has already licensed .NET, that's no secret. And while Microsoft does make a competing PDA OS, that is nothing compared to the stakes of it has in .NET and making sure it reaches as many platforms as possible. Windows CE and Pocket PC lose money for MS, but .NET is supposed to carry them for the next few years.
RE: How about Java?
palmato @ 5/7/2003 4:01:05 PM #
Go to the palmsource java page at:
http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/java/

Moreover you get more information on this thread at brighthand:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D432B74

The Sun Java impelementation of MIDP for Palm is only supported on POS 3.5. It's old stuff that is not going to be updated. It may work on OS5 devices, but there will be no update for any problem it might have.
Palmato


------------------------
Tired of PPC? Get a TT!

RE: How about Java?
Token User @ 5/7/2003 4:30:15 PM #
> I doubt we will see .NET framework support. You
> know, Microsoft does make the OS for the
> competition.

.NET is a misunderstood beast. On one level it is a programming framework allowing for allowing "buzzword compliance" between networked devices and applications (B2B, P2P, LAN, WAN, etc). This is .NET Gold Level partnering.

Taking a step back, .NET is a communication "standard" that makes heavy use of XML/SOAP to allow networked devices to communicate. Adhereing to the communications guidelines, but not using the underlying .NET framework will get you a .NET Silver Level partnership. I'd guess that Palm fall into this camp (as do Sun Microsystems, and the company I work for).

It is possible for individual apps to be .NET apps independant of the OS, so you might see these on the PalmOS BEFORE a formal integration at the OS level.



~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

Java: no way
mj6798 @ 5/7/2003 6:53:17 PM #
"Java support should be built in. Should have been in OS4. Should have been in OS5."

Palm has no interest in making it easy for people to write cross-platform applications. Palm has consistently tried to create a franchise of proprietary APIs, and they still have the developer base to get away with it.

If PalmSource has anything to do with it, Java isn't going to ship with Palm until Palm has absolutely no other choice.

However, PalmSource now faces a dilemma: if they do a reasonable job with PalmOS 6, then porting Java and cross-platform toolkits will be easy. If they continue shipping the kind of weird architectures they have been shipping until now, they are going to lose market share and developers.

RE: How about Java?
grg @ 5/8/2003 11:59:13 PM #
I hope we see better Java support from Palm. Java will be huge in PDAs and mobiles. The day we have JSR75 compliant PDAP in Palm is the happiest one in my life.


RE: How about Java?
ganoe @ 5/9/2003 2:24:57 PM #
Well, I've sat through a few meetings in the last weeks where I've basically told our group to forget about Palm for the time being with respect to Java. I have seen no positive signs of things improving soon.

For those of you waiting for PDAP, it was essentially dropped. The main APIs from it (for accessing PIM info and FileConnections, if I remember right) were kept as optional API packages. The PIM APIs will be nice if/when they ever see the light of day on a device. In the long run, I think they made the right decision, but it is also hard to not see it as a setback.

Instead of dragging their feet to a J2ME CLDC MIDP 2.0 with the FileConnection and PIM APIs implementation, which is where I can only guess they are heading (since JSR-75 was for CLDC). Why don't they get Insignia to do a PersonalJava port for OS 5 (like is available for nearly every other PDA) and/or head toward J2ME CDC Personal Profile with the PIM APIs (which is where I'm assuming everyone else will head in the future)? The CLDC stuff is nice for an OS 4 device, but I fear it is going to be too little, too late for the OS 5 (or 6) devices.

Microsoft and their promises.
orb2069 @ 5/11/2003 3:07:06 PM #
Palm has already licensed .NET, that's no secret. And while Microsoft does make a competing PDA OS, that is nothing compared to the stakes of it has in .NET and making sure it reaches as many platforms as possible.

I think that Microsoft would probably be more interested in stringing Palm along as long as possible in order to delay them from introducing a technology that competes in the same space on a platform that numerically outnumbers them in deployment.

If you need an example, MS pulled it's support for Microsoft Reader from the eBookman at a VERY late stage, which has done a LOT to assist in the tanking of the platform.

MS' announcement on Reader support for the eBookman:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2000/Jun00/eBookmanPR.asp

Franklin's rather terse FAQ answer to the ubiquitous 'Where is the version of Microsoft Reader for the eBookman????'

http://tinyurl.com/bip6


RE: How about Java?
mikecane @ 5/11/2003 5:19:32 PM #
In future, when you want to post URLs, use http://www.tinyurl.com to shorten them. Long URLs distort the Comments formatting. I've emailed Ryan and he'll no doubt fix them.

Screenshots?

Foo Fighter @ 5/7/2003 3:46:30 PM #
Are there any screenshots available of OS6? I'm dying to see what, if any, updates have been made to the UI.

RE: Screenshots?
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 10:04:34 PM #
Whaaaat?! I looked at that and my first reaction was: SYMBIAN!!

OTOH: HOLY COW!! *SOFT* Graffiti!! Make it SKINNABLE, dammit!

And I can see this isn't a hoax: I see the WiFi signal strength icon from the Tung C there.

RE: Screenshots?
Foo Fighter @ 5/7/2003 10:55:05 PM #
Wow! That does look like Symbian, but I LOVE IT! I hope this is something along the lines of what we see in the new OS. It looks much more "modern" and robust compared to the current geriatric user interface.

RE: Screenshots?
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 11:05:06 PM #
Nah, nah, nah. Things always look better on monitors than on these teeny-weeny PDA screens (well, except for maybe in the case of the hp 1910 PPC!).

I'm not keen on having *two* rows of titlebars in editing an Address. Look at how inefficient that is. What a waste of space!

I also think the Soft Graffiti area should allow the things I mentioned in my article. Plus, I see they now have room on both *sides* of the area -- let us cram some user-defined icons in that area too. Like maybe Cut/Copy/Paste icons. Even better: ditch the damned time of day at the bottom and put those icons *there* so you don't have to bring up the SG area or tap on an icon to bring up the Command Bar!

This thing still needs lots of work. LOTS!!

RE: Screenshots?
Foo Fighter @ 5/7/2003 11:23:27 PM #
>This thing still needs lots of work. LOTS!!

Actually, Mike, I think this is merely a concept rather than the finished product. Look at the date, and the title "Sahara Design studies". Sahara could be the codename for the UI concept..one among many.

RE: Screenshots?
Foo Fighter @ 5/7/2003 11:28:10 PM #
It's nice to see PalmSource is moving towards 3D UI widgets and getting away from the current 2D wireframe objects. About bloody time.

RE: Screenshots?
abosco @ 5/7/2003 11:35:29 PM #
I like the way the menu looks. If Palm OS 6 looks like this and offers an efficient way to fully multitask, I'll leap.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Screenshots?
jjsoh @ 5/8/2003 12:15:59 AM #
Did anyone else notice the 100% ~23 hours?! Heh. That would truly be a much welcome upgrade. But if only that were true. Sadly, it probably isn't... which means this is just a mock up and not an actual screenshot (not that I had to tell you guys). I just thought it would be amusing to point out.

Jim
RE: Screenshots?
ozz @ 5/8/2003 12:21:32 AM #
Ryan--In your "Update" commentary, you used the phrase, "and a soft input area". Is this a euphemism for "virtual graffiti"?

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981
RE: Screenshots?
Admin @ 5/8/2003 12:31:01 AM #
yes, I'll add that in
RE: Screenshots?
ozz @ 5/8/2003 12:55:51 AM #
Thanx Ryan :-) I guess we could start calling "Soft Input Area" an SIA which would be yet another TLA (Three-Letter Acronym)! LOL (just teasing!)

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981
RE: Screenshots?
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 2:48:47 PM #
Yeah I noticed the 23hrs left too. I did hear somthing about better battery optimization a long time ago, but this could be a PC POS6 emulator. Anyway...

COOOOOOOOOOOL!

Look at that scrollbar! awsome! Evarything looks great! Look at the date though. Year 2002. Sounds like a prototype to me. Rest assured that will all these months since those shots, the real OS will look even better!

RE: Screenshots?
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 3:16:48 PM #
Just a few more things I noted (and these are assuming the pics are real).

1. The division between screen and Graffiti are a little fuzzy. I say this looking at the picture on the right. It blends into the rest of the screen. No solid line division. Nice touch.

2. It seems as though the launcher is no longer treated as a normal application. It has no title bar, or other such markings. I wonder if 3rd party launchers will have to change.

RE: Screenshots?
jws @ 5/11/2003 6:16:13 AM #
Heh, did anyone notice that the graphic battery meter is only 2/3 filled while it says 100% ?
The ~... hours thing is nice though.

-- jws

upgrades

UZI4U182 @ 5/7/2003 3:57:36 PM #
All I can say is that it better be compatible with current OS 5 devices, or I'll be pissed at Palm.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.BigDumbPalmReviews.tk
Main PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-NX70v
WiFi setup coming soon...
RE: upgrades
cmoney @ 5/7/2003 4:39:47 PM #
I'm still waiting for OS 5.2 for my Tungsten T. But I really want that SD 802.11 card!

RE: upgrades
Jeffry @ 5/7/2003 4:41:17 PM #
Of course not. You have a Sony.
RE: upgrades
mmmarkiep @ 5/7/2003 5:09:10 PM #
>>I'm still waiting for OS 5.2 for my Tungsten T. But I really want that SD 802.11 card!


*sigh* Me, too.

RE: upgrades
nuopus @ 5/7/2003 6:07:20 PM #
Why would you be pissed off at Palm? Its not their problem to put it out for CLIE. The group that creates the OS doesnt even release to customers! It is released to the hardware manufacturers to tailor it to their hardware THEN release it. That being said ... Sony has had a VERY poor track record of supporting their units as far as OS upgrades are concerned ... so I wouldnt hold my breath if I were you. CLIE users will most likely NOT get a 5.2 update if history repeats itself.

RE: upgrades
mj6798 @ 5/7/2003 7:00:36 PM #
Why would you be pissed off at Palm? Its not their problem to put it out for CLIE. The group that creates the OS doesnt even release to customers!

This is exactly the problem: Palm doesn't ship a modular operating system (vendors supply drivers, developers supply applications). Instead, they just dump a bunch of code on hardware vendors and tell them "hey, you hack it till it works with your hardware". That's Palm's problem, not Sony's (other than that Sony signed up for it).

RE: upgrades
JKingGrim @ 5/7/2003 7:20:28 PM #
First of all, when there is an OS problem, it is not Palm's problem. Its PalmSource's. Second of all, they DO NOT just give the licencees some code, and the licensees must hack it up. Licencees only change it if they need to add support for extra hardware, like a camera.

RE: upgrades
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 3:15:19 PM #
>>This is exactly the problem: Palm doesn't ship a modular operating system (vendors supply drivers, developers supply applications). Instead, they just dump a bunch of code on hardware vendors and tell them "hey, you hack it till it works with your hardware". That's Palm's problem, not Sony's (other than that Sony signed up for it).

Wha? In particular since OS 5 - PalmSource has made the OS code quite modular. This has been at the request of and for the benefit of, licensees. Why you are painting a picture of 'poor sony' held hostage by PalmSiource is beyond me - its up to Sony to support the OS with their devices in whatever way they see fit. And they do - they have their own version of the app launcher for example. This is not a 'hack' - why do you use this term? Licensees have full access to the OS / built-in app source code and permission to modify it. So how is this a hack?

I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...

Puppy @ 5/7/2003 4:36:54 PM #
I don't care at all unless OS 6 gives us back Graffiti. I will not ever buy a PDA that only has JOT/"Graffiti 2".

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
kevdo @ 5/7/2003 5:14:47 PM #
This seems like such a petty comment, but having used the Zire now for two weeks I'm still struggling with Grafitti 2 myself (it doesn't help that three of the letters in my first name, plus T all changed).

I'd gladly pay a few bucks for a seamless "grafitti 1" compatibity utility. Any developers got something like this?

-Kevin Crossman

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
arielb @ 5/7/2003 5:20:32 PM #
tealscript from tealpoint.com?

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
helf @ 5/7/2003 5:51:53 PM #
*sigh*.. people still whining bout g2... Why not go look for a 3rd party app thatll let you use g1?!?!? Tealpoint is the one I use . works great.

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
Wollombi @ 5/7/2003 10:35:48 PM #
Hmm....where can one get a "Graffiti 1" profile for use in Tealscript?

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
Puppy @ 5/7/2003 10:46:57 PM #
I tried Tealscript for 3 days, and with hours of tinkering, I still couldn't get it to work as well as Graffiti.

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 3:25:12 PM #
The new OS has interchangeable input methods.

BYE BYE GRAFFITI 2!

RE: I was excited for OS 6 a year ago, but now...
Puppy @ 5/8/2003 4:24:22 PM #
Thank goodness! Let's hope Graffiti is one of them...

Then Graffiti 2 can die a slow, painful death :)

OS5.2??

Morph @ 5/7/2003 5:26:04 PM #
Ok, I know that I keep harping on getting an answer as to when OS5.2 will come out. But I'm beginning to think that if OS6 is due out later this year, do you think it's safe to say that they'll turf 5.2 and make us wait till OS6?

Which then brings up another question. Do you think we'll be able to upgrade our T|T to OS6? Or are we stuck?
If we are, probably their way of making us pay for the upgrade then. Grrrrrr......



************************************************

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul.

Donesn't sound like there's a great deal of change

dliao @ 5/7/2003 5:55:02 PM #
Didn't some times last year, Negal also made a statement saying OS6 will have change like how OSX was for Apple?

Wireless, secruity, multimedia change sound promising, but I tend thin these are like standard approach with any platforms that has been, or is in development.



RE: Donesn't sound like there's a great deal of change
JKingGrim @ 5/7/2003 7:28:26 PM #
Thats not all thats changing. Multitasking, new UI, ect.

I actually prefer the old stuff now...

sonicxracer @ 5/7/2003 6:29:45 PM #
I used to be the type that was all over the brand new Palm stuff, and would run out and buy it right up immediately, and put my old PDA on eBay (which would normally be about a new PDA every 6 months or so) and I did this for a good few years...

Now, with this new style Graffiti CRAP, and with Sony's lack of OS5 Models (I DO NOT WANT OR LIKE THE LITTLE KEYBOARDS!) I can not believe we have OS6 on the way already.

Give me a new Sony model, with virtual graffiti (NORMAL kind!), OS5 or 6 or whatever, and without the bulky ugly flip around doohicky. I want a design like my T665! I am happy with it! Why must they go all crazy and put these ugly keyboards on asll the new models?

This is so frutsrating to me lol... Does anyone hear what I'm saying? I'm stickin with my T665 it looks like it'll be a long while... Luckily I really like the thing.

RE: I actually prefer the old stuff now...
killah fury @ 5/8/2003 4:02:07 AM #
Seconded. I have a T665C as well (my 8th Palm OS device) and am not upgrading until Sony bring out a T665C form factor machine maybe with virtual grafiti and not silkscreen input area.. and also, Palm OS 5.2.1, 64mb of RAM, that new Intel processor, voice recording and all the usual gubbins.

C'mon Sony! We need one of these!

RE: I actually prefer the old stuff now...
Marshall Flinkman @ 5/8/2003 10:45:20 AM #
Go for Garmin or Tapwave's devices...

RE: I actually prefer the old stuff now...
elo @ 5/8/2003 11:43:03 AM #
I'm with you. My T-615 is definitely starting to feel dated. But I won't spend my money on an upgrade until the right unit comes along. I like everything about the TG series except the keyboard and lack of virtual Graffiti area.



RE: I actually prefer the old stuff now...
killah fury @ 5/8/2003 4:32:52 PM #
I like everything about the TG-50 too apart from the lack of virtual graffiti area, that annoying flip lid and built in keyboard.... but it needs more than 16mb of RAM really, and now that the faster Intel PXA255 400mhz processor is available - I'll have one of those too please.

I hope it's upgradable

gli @ 5/7/2003 6:33:44 PM #
I'm just getting ready to get a T|C.

320 x 480

fabio@pandin.com.br @ 5/7/2003 6:40:58 PM #
When Palm will develop devices with 320x480 screens and virtual graffiti area?
RE: 320 x 480
JKingGrim @ 5/7/2003 7:32:35 PM #
Its what a good bunch of us are waiting for. COME ON PALM!

RE: 320 x 480
swatts3413 @ 5/8/2003 1:56:46 AM #
Amen!
RE: 320 x 480
Take1 @ 5/8/2003 3:49:03 AM #
Probably for OS6 -- if MS sits on is @ss like it's been doing and doesn't improve screen resolution, then Palm's going to clean house when OS 6 hits the shelves.

Why hasn't Palm and Sony put 320 x 480 into their devices yet? Palm is simply thinks they know it all when they really don't. Sony is a mystery -- they SHOULD know it all, but have made some rather idiotic moves as of late with their zepplin NZ-90 and blimpy NX-70 models.

Scratch the 5: make it 6

mikecane @ 5/7/2003 8:06:14 PM #
RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 8:08:37 PM #
My God! I just looked at it again -- it was published about SEVENTEEN MONTHS AGO! And NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING from that list has made it into PalmOS.

Thank you, Palm, for wasting more of our time...

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
Gekko @ 5/7/2003 8:51:45 PM #
1. 4k+ memo
2. native PIM encryption/security

I hope these make it in by 0S 7.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
Islander @ 5/7/2003 8:57:29 PM #
Oh PLUUUEEAAASE Mike.

For one I doubt everything in the OS is revealed yet. It says nowhere that those things you want ARE NOT in OS6. In fACT I guarantee you some of that stuff WILL be in it, COMMON SENSE. I tell you here and now the category thing for one will be done. Save my response and see.

Just because YOU want it does not make it nessesary. Palm aint browsing this sight saying, "we gotta put everything this Cain guy wants cause he is the voice of the people."

Palm is on the right track despite your bellyaching. They can wait untill OS ten and you will just TALK about a switch to PPC.

They are right to concern themselve with BUYING customers who are much more realistic in their expectations.

The biggest things are integrated WIFI, and increased Ram which are done already. The Blackberry stuff is gonna be HUGE.

OS5 ALREADY has enough to match it competition, despite its limitations.

WE DONT KNOW all that OS 6 will have.
But if they continue the smart choices they've made in recent months, they will re-establish themselves as the dominant HH OS for sure.

That is why Mike you are so scared to actually buy a PPC. You know its true.



RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 9:40:37 PM #
P*ss off, cretin.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
Islander @ 5/7/2003 10:31:33 PM #
Real mature Mike.
You put your views out there. This is a "discussion board" dude so expect people to counter your views. When someone disagrees with you you aught to be able to take it. If you are right, you will embarass me with logic.
Thats the best you can come back with?

Come back with substance.
I'll give you props if you make sense.

Its just that your post on this topic was WAAAAY premature and faced with the FACTS you cannot debate the matter because I am RIGHT and you know it.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 10:53:16 PM #
Listen, twit. I looked up your profile and looked up other (illiterate, stupid) msgs you posted, and I treated you as the cretin you are. Now go play with yourself somewhere else.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
helf @ 5/7/2003 11:04:59 PM #
jeez mike. your such a bloody *******...

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 11:10:50 PM #
Ooh. I'm crushed. Another illiterate who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're" -- or worse, and more likely, is a slob who doesn't care.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
abosco @ 5/7/2003 11:16:56 PM #
Mike, man, chill... for the sake of your articles' credibility. I know it's hard, but people like us need to bite our lip every now and then.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 11:20:08 PM #
Sorry, abosco, but I will not take sh*te from morons on this -- or any other -- site. Let them jerk off elsewhere.

Are you sure these are BlueAnon's cousins?

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
abosco @ 5/7/2003 11:29:25 PM #
Let them slob their knob if they want to. You stay out of it. Just chill.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
Foo Fighter @ 5/8/2003 12:17:05 AM #
Reminds me of a skit from Monty Python..."Oh, I'm sorry. This is Abuse. You want the room down the hall".

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
killah fury @ 5/8/2003 4:07:01 AM #
>> Reminds me of a skit from Monty Python..."Oh, I'm sorry. This is Abuse. You want the room down the hall".


Ha ha ha.. class!

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
Gekko @ 5/8/2003 8:18:44 AM #
ok 'tough guy'. sheesh.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 3:24:20 PM #
This is a stupid thread. Mike - most of yr predictions are obvious and instead of coming on hear acting like some pda guru / prophet, why don't you wait til OS 6 is actually out - we KNOW OS 6 has some of the obvious things on yr list (multi-tasking, VG). So what are you on about here with this post? Everything in yr list aside from VG, mult-tasking and better file sysetm, doesn't require a new OS - they require changes to built-in apps and can already be obtained with 3rd party apps AND may exist in the OS 6 versions of the built-in apps. So back to the point - why are you declaring that yr wish list is not met with OS 6? You have inside info? lets hear it....

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 3:39:54 PM #
>>1. 4k+ memo
2. native PIM encryption/security

I hope these make it in by 0S 7.


Theese are in OS6.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:11:41 PM #
rsc1000 -- that number is obviously not your IQ. Next!

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
helf @ 5/8/2003 9:55:21 PM #
*sigh*

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 10:00:33 PM #
>>*sigh*.. So close..
>>helf @ 4/25/2003 11:03:35 AM

>>If the zire 71 didn't have a camera and instead had a CF slot it would be perfect.. hell, even if it didnt have either.. would be like the size of my m505..*sigh*..

>>Guess I'll keep dreaming...

-- still pining for it ,huh?


RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
ActionJackson @ 5/9/2003 4:07:42 AM #
Mike the way you go on and on about how brilliant and insightful your wish-list article is,
maybe you should consider changing your name to mikevain.
RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:19:35 PM #
The man gets a 10! Best comment so far (but the night is young and I am scrolling through this in order).

There are things I want added to PalmOS and I'll not stop b*tching until they are in there. ALL of them.

RE: Scratch the 5: make it 6
atrizzah @ 5/13/2003 2:12:38 AM #
Before this thread, I had some respect for Mike Cane. Sure, I thought he was kind of bitchy after reading his posts, but now I also think he is immature, arrogant, and vain.

Mike, you probably don't care what I, a random reader thinks of you, but know that it reflects very poorly on any sort of credibility and integrity you have. I'm certain I'm not the only person who thinks so. Congratulations.

Peace Out
Alan

Hyper-Upgrade Cycle

MSTCrowT @ 5/7/2003 10:05:05 PM #
"PalmSource expects to debut major OS releases every 12 months to 18 months after the first hardware ships."

This is very stupid. Not even MS pumps out a new OS every 12 to 18 months, they call those "service packs." Instead of adding value to the existing userbase, some users will be forced to go out and buy a new Palm every 12-18 months for new capabilities and features that should have been built in or added into existing releases. I don't even want to think what this will do to developers. While PalmSource may think they can make some cash off of this, I predict that they're development costs will spiral out of control as more and more users refuse to upgrade every year or so.

RE: Hyper-Upgrade Cycle
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 10:14:59 PM #
You forget that the devices become cheaper over that timeframe, relative to their increased power.

And not everyone is going to want The Next Thing. Plenty of people are out there today buying the mono, no-backlight Zire (God help them!!).

RE: Hyper-Upgrade Cycle
Wollombi @ 5/7/2003 10:41:28 PM #
>" Not even MS pumps out a new OS every 12 to 18 months, they call those "service packs.""<

That's only on Desktops, which is like comparing apples to oranges. If you look at MS's PocketPC, you'll see that they are in fact working on that time schedule. Remember when PPC2002 was released? And now there is talk of PPC2003 by the end of the year.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: Hyper-Upgrade Cycle
mikecane @ 5/7/2003 10:49:16 PM #
No, that's the end of this MONTH. PPC 2003 is rumored to be introed in June. Everyone is awaiting the hp 2200s -- PXA255s in a 1910-form factor with *dual* slots: SDIO & CF.

RE: Hyper-Upgrade Cycle
SaabCaptain @ 5/9/2003 9:21:20 AM #
You know what... I could care less about PalmSource's 12-18 month cycle when you have to admit OS5 is the same darn OS pretty much as OS3!!!! The ARM enhancements are nice for speed but we need a real multi-threaded OS, with support for full ARM apps, with a more modern updated GUI, and for the first time since OS1 pretty much UPDATED PIM APPLICATIONS!!!! So while you can all get hissy and complain about the quick update cycle you should be getting excited about the first REAL update of the OS in 5 years or more... OS6.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Hyper-Upgrade Cycle
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 6:30:43 PM #
One of them is now known as the hp 2215: $399.99. Next month. Apparently in the Best Buy inventory control system already...

from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in

jcalcazaren @ 5/8/2003 12:19:21 AM #
What do you think guys?! =)

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
ozz @ 5/8/2003 12:25:53 AM #
Well, it doesn't look very "virtual" to me. It looks like it is silkscreened on the glass to me. I sure HOPE it's VG, though!! :-)

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981
RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
alexp @ 5/8/2003 9:57:35 AM #
I'd be intrigued to know how or why you think they would silkscreen the time of day or the signal strength directly on the glass. Perhaps you just didn't notice.

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
ganoe @ 5/8/2003 3:42:30 PM #
I'm pretty sure PalmSource has already announced that VG will be in upcoming versions of os 4.x and 5.x. So one would hope that it'll also be in OS 6.
RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:12:27 PM #
"Silkscreened on the glass"

At first, I thought your comment was dumb. Then I went back to look again -- hmmm.... why is there an UP ARROW in the upper-right corner of the G area? If this was Soft Graffiti, wouldn't that be pointing DOWN so the area would COLLAPSE?

OK, so who has the best guess about why that arrow is pointing UP?

And what's that icon at the LOWER right of the area?!

And what happened to the Calc icon?!

The emphasis on wireless is clear: the Tung C WiFi icon is there and now a mail icon too. But what's that ! do?!

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
ozz @ 5/9/2003 1:58:01 AM #
"why that arrow is pointing UP?"

Good question. Maybe to shift the virtual graffiti area to the top of the screen?

"what's that icon at the LOWER right of the area"

It looks like a pencil icon. Maybe to activate handwritten notes like Diddlebug maybe??

"what happened to the Calc icon?!"

Probably not enough room to display the Calc icon on top. It may be just another application on the app menu

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
ozz @ 5/9/2003 2:09:24 AM #
Oops. The calc button HAS been moved to the app menu. It's the second icon on the right screenshot.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981
RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
JKingGrim @ 5/9/2003 2:40:32 PM #
>>Well, it doesn't look very "virtual" to me. It looks like it is silkscreened on the glass to me. I sure HOPE it's VG, though!! :-)

Oh come on! Use your brain and look at the second picture. If it was not VG, could that popup be there?


At first, I thought your comment was dumb. Then I went back to look again -- hmmm.... why is there an UP ARROW in the upper-right corner of the G area? If this was Soft Graffiti, wouldn't that be pointing DOWN so the area would COLLAPSE?

The up arrow is obviously a Graffiti shift icon. I think the little pencil below opens and closes the writing area.

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:22:43 PM #
>>Oh come on! Use your brain and look at the second picture. If it was not VG, could that popup be there?

Magic? But seriously, you're right! DUH on me for not looking at the second picture.

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
JKingGrim @ 5/10/2003 12:12:24 PM #
Oh, and sorry Mike. I didn't mean to be rude about it.

RE: from the pic, looks like OS6 finally has VG built in
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 6:16:05 PM #
Rude? You were rude? When? Where?

OS 6 ahead of schedule!

hotpaw4 @ 5/8/2003 12:43:32 AM #
Yes indeed. Previous announcements suggested an OS 6 release to licensees before the end of the year (that's December 31st). Wednesday afternoon, at the PalmSource conference, they said publicly that the release to licensees will be this Fall. Fall ends on December 20th. So they seem to have advanced the schedule by at least 11 days.

Other items mentioned during the public presentation included the removal of the 15 category limit and many of the 64k data size limits. I think both multithreading and multiple processes were mentioned, but nothing about multiprocessor support.

It also looks like OS 6 will be secure enough to allow a licensee to build models implementing full DRM, where the hardware can only be directly accessed by software that has been certified and digitally signed by the licensee.

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
mclove @ 5/8/2003 2:23:37 AM #
Could but won't; they'd be crazy to give up one of the primary advantages of Palm OS, the enormous number of small 3rd party developers. They might have some little whiny warning message that you can turn off that you're running unsigned code, but that's it.

RE: screenshots
UZI4U182 @ 5/8/2003 7:38:21 AM #
Oh my! I certainly hope these aren't screenshots of OS 6. I don't like the looks of that at all.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.BigDumbPalmReviews.tk
Main PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-NX70v
WiFi setup coming soon...
RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
alexp @ 5/8/2003 10:02:02 AM #
Why? The screenshots don't exhibit that any fundamental change from the current look. So they've added some colors and tabs to it. Is that your problem with it? I would imagine color "themes" will become more commonplace in OS6, so you can go to a look you like more.

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 3:54:10 PM #
>>but nothing about multiprocessor support.

What - no quad cpu systems ?! Thats OK - XP home edition doesn't support that either:)

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
UZI4U182 @ 5/8/2003 5:57:07 PM #
>Why? The screenshots don't exhibit that any fundamental change from the current look.

You're insane. Look at an OS 5 screenshot compared to those, and I dare you to tell me that there isn't any cosmetic changes.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.BigDumbPalmReviews.tk
Main PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-NX70v
WiFi setup coming soon...

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:18:00 PM #
"the removal of the 15 category limit"

-- to what? SIXTEEN? INFINITY?

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
SaabCaptain @ 5/9/2003 9:26:45 AM #
The PIM applications were promised to be enhanced and they better be...

1) assign multiple categories to the same contact.
2) have the same format and breadth of input areas for dozens of phone numbers etc. as Outlook XP which although an MS product is the current standard.
3) major improvements to the calendar app etc, again to match Outlook XP.
4) much more feature rich memo pad application without size limits.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: OS 6 ahead of schedule!
JKingGrim @ 5/9/2003 2:58:54 PM #
>>>Why? The screenshots don't exhibit that any fundamental change from the current look.

>>You're insane. Look at an OS 5 screenshot compared to those, and I dare you to tell me that there isn't any cosmetic changes.

He did not say no cosmetic change. He said no fundamental change, and he is a little right. Still title bars, buttons, selector triggers, ect. Although, the launcher does not look like any other app anymore, because it has no title bar, and is blended into the writing area. Also, it seems tabs are added.

Is Palm OS 6 the answer against PPC

a3 @ 5/8/2003 12:30:02 PM #
After 6+ months being a daily reader of PIC and 13+ months owning a Clie T615C, I've been noticing for quite a time now that a lot of bad comments are arising against PalmOS. Obviously most of PIC readers are power users and maybe that's why we hear so much stuff. Anyway, I'm very concerned so I decided to go to a Pocket PC site in order to watch if their power users had complaints of their OS and apparently they don't. Most probably I couldn't get a good look at "their" sites because I was there only for an hour or so but I'm still worried.
After all this exciting, evolution-packed years Palm still has an advantage? Since Microsoft is catching up how much advantage do we really have? Microsoft, HP, Toshiba and PPC in general rule or do we still have technology at our side?

Thanks in advance for all your comments...

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.

RE: Is Palm OS 6 the answer against PPC
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 3:42:58 PM #
>>Since Microsoft is catching up how much advantage do we really have?

Its the opposite - when PPC was introduced several yrs ago, MS leap-frogged Palm in terms of technology (multitasking, faster processors, hi-res screens, mp3 etc). In the last 2 yrs Palm has caught up and passed PPC in some ways (screen res). By comparison, PPC has changed very little (PPC 2003 is basically a bug fi release).

RE: Is Palm OS 6 the answer against PPC
dq @ 5/8/2003 5:13:07 PM #
Take a look at

http://www.cewindows.net/bugs/pocketpc2002.htm

and

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24531.html

and also

http://www.ipaqpetition.com/petition/index.htm

and you will see that PPC users also have complains about their OS and hardware.

If you take a broader (5 year or more) look, both CE and Palm devices have evolved a lot. And both are still very far from the "perfect" device.

Daniel


RE: Is Palm OS 6 the answer against PPC
arielb @ 5/8/2003 5:16:30 PM #
once PalmOS 6 comes out and hopefully has multitasking along with the other features we've been hearing, Palm will be able to cruise past PPC. We already have 400 mhz, 64 megs and hi-res color screens on a Palm right now even without POS 6. (there's no reason why Sony couldn't do the same but with 320X480 virtual graffiti right now if they wanted to) And the office apps and netfront web browser rival what Microsoft offers with the PPC. I've followed the BeOS for many years and while the "pointy heads" didn't know what they were doing, the engineers are top notch. This is just the beginning

RE: Is Palm OS 6 the answer against PPC
a3 @ 5/9/2003 9:36:57 AM #
Hey thanks a lot for giving me hope again!!! :D

Nice links and very good overall information

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.

New Developers Framework needed

MountainLogic @ 5/8/2003 12:36:44 PM #
As a programmer I was thrilled to see Metrowerks add POL support to CodeWarrior and sad to see development stop. The Palm API is a real pain to program to and really needs a REAL c++ framework to make real application development workable. This is ever more true as we move to ARM code.
There is a reason you see so many four button/one field apps on PalmGear: writing real apps is hard on Palm. And Palm seems to think that thousands of trivial hobby examples is cool. Until Palm sees the light and lowers the barrier to developing professional applications Palm will not flourish like it should.


RE: New Developers Framework needed
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 4:01:23 PM #
I like the direction PalmSource has been moving in and think people have been overly critical without truly looking at what PalmSource needs to / is trying to do. That said, i couldn't agree with you more. POL was nice but with OS 6 PalmSource needs to move to a true OO, class based API. Its safe to assume that they are aware of this - time will tell if they act on it.

Switching to Palm!!!

gmed @ 5/8/2003 2:35:30 PM #
If thats what Palm OS 6 is going to look like, I'm definelety switching to palm and leaving pocket pc behind for good. I have been waiting for 320x480 support and VG or silk screen for the longest time. Looks like that time is coming. I am not particularly a fan of Grafitti, since I have been working with pocket pc which has a good hand writing recognition. But I do like CIC's Jot for Palm which comes pretty close to Transcriber. You can write naturally as you would on paper.
If only Palm did this earlier, a lot more people would stay with Palm.

RE: Switching to Palm!!!
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 3:47:11 PM #
POS6 has interchangeable input methods. You don't have to put up with anything you don't like anymore.

Hey Mike ol pal

Islander @ 5/8/2003 1:26:14 PM #
Mike said:
"My God! I just looked at it again -- it was published about SEVENTEEN MONTHS AGO! And NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING from that list has made it into PalmOS."

Mike said to me:
"Listen, twit. I looked up your profile and looked up other (illiterate, stupid) msgs you posted, and I treated you as the cretin you are. Now go play with yourself somewhere else."

My response (Islander)
Mike you should've listened to abosco.
Class act, you can learn from him.
He was saving you from further humiliation
Oh but you wouldnt listen.

Mike notice that those "possible" OS6 pics have your beloved VIRTUAL GRAFFITI? Isnt that on your wish list? If it is in OS6 I was right huh? Still wanna disrespect me for calling you on your premature rant? Rather than call me names, you should have just kept quiet.
"Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

You dare question my intellect when I continue to toy with yours. You dare insult my previous posts when for you reading my words amounts to a "HIGHER EDUCATION."

I too can looks up your previous.............

Wait a minute.
Why go through the trouble when just looking at what you've written HERE speaks volumes about your SPECTACULAR wit.

You cannot address THE FACT that we both have no idea what is going to be in OS6, and it is WAAAY to soon to rip it. Do the smart thing for a change huh pal.
Just admit I am correct and be done with it.

Have a good day :)



RE: Hey Mike ol pal
killah fury @ 5/8/2003 4:38:03 PM #
he he he! Nice one Islander...

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:21:27 PM #
Poor Islander! He seeks my approval sooo much, the empty-lifed, illiterate cretin. He creates an entire thread that shrieks "Look at me, Mike! Doesn't someone as insignificant as ME matter?"

Well, no.

The Eejit went on to drool:
Mike notice that those "possible" OS6 pics have your beloved VIRTUAL GRAFFITI? Isnt that on your wish list? If it is in OS6 I was right huh? Still wanna disrespect me for calling you on your premature rant?

Schmuck! Go see a comment I posted earlier today. That is most likely NOT Soft Graffiti. Another silkscreen jobbie.


The Approval-Desperate Cretin repeated:
"Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

-- yes, you should have taken that advice to begin with. You still can. Go away.

The Blithering Cretin then went into a full-blown psychotic episode with:
You dare question my intellect when I continue to toy with yours. You dare insult my previous posts when for you reading my words amounts to a "HIGHER EDUCATION."

-- you know that medication your stopped taking? Refill the prescription. When you have a full bottle, take it. The FULL BOTTLE.

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/8/2003 8:47:25 PM #
Alright, so a few things are cleared up, PalmSource officially implemented virtual graffiti in OS 5.2. It's not mandatory, but the API is there for the taking, and if I remember correctly, it uses the same API Sony used since that is based on the OS 5 320x320 API "elongated".

Mike, you've got to chill out. Use your indoor voice!

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:59:35 PM #
My indoor voice is a baseball bat...

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/8/2003 9:06:07 PM #
Well then, go to an islander and use your killah fury with your indoor voice.

Too much HTML.

Maybe Marquee?

Aww.

(You know, I thought I was the only one who made material threats of violence when it comes to PDA OS's.)

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 9:13:18 PM #
You have too much time on your hands. Time *and* hair...

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
helf @ 5/8/2003 9:34:05 PM #
heh. Nice one. He will probably get all over you about you putting a s on the end of look ;)



RE: Hey Mike ol pal
helf @ 5/8/2003 9:38:39 PM #
woops. Didn't realize that page hadn't refreshed :)

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/8/2003 10:10:17 PM #
"Time *and* hair..."

You talkin' smack on my not-so-straight from the hood fro?

To hell with you!

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
UZI4U182 @ 5/8/2003 10:28:54 PM #
The Earth is flat.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.BigDumbPalmReviews.tk
Main PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-NX70v
WiFi setup coming soon...
RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 10:29:13 PM #
Give the HTML a rest.

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/8/2003 10:40:03 PM #
Put the bat down and we'll talk.

(Damn, this thread is OUT there!)

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 11:01:02 PM #
Hahahaha.

And to think: as far as we know, NO BlueAnon!!

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 11:18:20 PM #
"Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets."

-- Travis Bickle; Taxi Driver.

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/9/2003 12:04:36 AM #
Don't jinx it... ah... too late.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Hey Mike ol pal
Islander @ 5/9/2003 3:50:21 PM #
Mike said:
"Poor Islander! He seeks my approval sooo much, the empty-lifed, illiterate cretin. He creates an entire thread that shrieks "Look at me, Mike! Doesn't someone as insignificant as ME matter?"

Oh but my opinion already seems to matter since you got so bent over my first post. Musta hit a nerve, huh Mike.
But come on "empty lifed?" Isnt that what your shrink tells you when he explains that your 24/7 devotion to everything PDA is a problem? You see Mike I've been here since 01 and nearly half the posts I've ever made are here. I go for months without posting boo. See my life is too full.

You on the other hand LIVE HERE, and on every other PDA board. When you get some REAL friends, and a REAL life, you wont have the time to spend all your time in your little PDA cyberworld.

"Look at me" you say.
Isnt that what your little tantrum is about?
Palm "look at me"
"I said a year ago I wanted..."

But again the bottom line is I'm right
Your rant was premature. :)


RE: Hey Mike ol pal
abosco @ 5/9/2003 5:25:48 PM #
"When you get some REAL friends, and a REAL life, you wont have the time to spend all your time in your little PDA cyberworld."

You know, it really takes no time at all to post a few hundred (or in my case, a few thousand) messages, especially when you have years to do it. As long as it doesn't become an obsession, a post count really means nothing. I just recently found out someone on Extreme Overclockers Forum has over 23,000 posts, yet still maintains a family. I don't think Mike's few hundred post count over the course of a few years as being a guest editor at PIC means he has no friends.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Hey Mike ol pal
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:24:54 PM #
Ha! If only this creep Islander (who I suspect I have encountered in, if you will pardon the obscenity, person) knew how LITTLE I was actually online! He mistakes speed for time.

I was offline from 11PM Thursday until 8PM Friday. But I'm sure Islander kept checking PIC over and over and over to see if I replied. The loser. (Hey, it's Friday! Porn tape night for you, Islander!)

ugly!

cyruski @ 5/8/2003 3:19:03 PM #
is this the best the "Be" people could do? they should have a bunch of UI designers out these..

this is just... very ugly :-/

RE: ugly!
rsc1000 @ 5/8/2003 4:08:05 PM #
>>is this the best the "Be" people could do?

Something non-developers don't understand: the look of the OS is the tiniest fraction of the work that goes into an OS. Beos are not a team of graphic designers - the 'look' will doubtless be somebody else job (constrained by the need to meet reuqirements dictated by the OS's functionality). Palm OS 7 SHOULD NOT be completely different for the sake of geeks wanting to see something 'far out'. Palm is what it is because it was the first PDA OS to make sense and have a simple interfaxce for the average user to understand. The trick is supporting advanced features, while maintaining an interface that people know and that supports backward compatibilty for old apps. I like the new look (if the screenshots are true) - much nicer and cleaner than PPC which always makes me feel claustrophobic.

RE: ugly!
cyruski @ 5/9/2003 5:34:09 PM #
i didn't mean to say the Be people are only a bunch of designers. in OS5 for example, the icons are heavily Be-inspired. i keep hoping that the whole look of the OS might become "Be-inspired" because I like their style.

i still like the current UI better than the ones in the screenshots..

RE: ugly!
grg @ 5/9/2003 6:47:52 PM #
Plz don't tell me you find Window$ XP nice! I 'll die laughing.

RE: ugly!
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:28:16 PM #
I can't say that I like what Jobs did to the Mac with OS X. Can you?

RE: ugly!
Jarrod Cifer @ 1/8/2004 12:17:47 PM #
The man with the big, pointy head spoke thus:

[i][b]Poor Islander! He seeks my approval sooo much, the empty-lifed, illiterate cretin. He creates an entire thread that shrieks "Look at me, Mike! Doesn't someone as insignificant as ME matter?"[/i][/b]

Mike you lost, take it with a bit more dignity. The only person that looks like a cretin right now is you. Please remember the old Usenet rule number 1: The spelling lamer automagically loses.

There are more countries on this earth than the USA, and you would do well to remember that PIC is an international forum and not every one speaks English as a first language.

--
J. Cifer

Icons in screenshots

Gekko @ 5/8/2003 3:22:22 PM #
look like they were hand-drawn with colored charcoal pencils.

RE: Icons in screenshots
killah fury @ 5/8/2003 4:40:54 PM #
don't they look pretty much the same as the OS5 icons ?

It's a FAAAAAKE!

Verteron @ 5/8/2003 6:30:39 PM #
Reasons these screenshots might be fakes or early concepts rather than anything substantial:

- Aspect ratio of the screen is slightly too small for 320x480 resolution. Enough room for someone to add the Graffiti area and the tabs in the top of Address Book.
- App Launcher is not sorting alphabetically ('Web'), which seems to me like the Web icon may have been pasted over the top of an OS5 screenshot.
- Why hasn't the awful up and down buttons been given a makeover like the rest of the graphical controls? This is probably the most annoying aspect of the current interface, and I'd have thought it'd be high on the list of priorities to change
- Where has the dropdown meny button gone from the virtual silkscreen?

RE: It's a FAAAAAKE!
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 8:27:48 PM #
>>Why hasn't the awful up and down buttons been given a makeover like the rest of the graphical controls? This is probably the most annoying aspect of the current interface, and I'd have thought it'd be high on the list of priorities to change

-- good one!

>>Where has the dropdown meny button gone from the virtual silkscreen?

-- VERY good catch! A+. Kind of PIC reader I like!

RE: It's a FAAAAAKE!
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 9:30:05 PM #
The screen is perfect proportion. The image is just shrunken.

The grafiti box open/close button could be that little pencil button in the lower right corner. Could be a early concept. I don't think its a fake.

RE: It's a FAAAAAKE!
JKingGrim @ 5/8/2003 9:32:18 PM #
About the Web icon out of place, maybe the OS will allow you to place the icons in the order you like. A nice feature to have. Why should my favorite icons be burried in the list.

Think before you post.

RE: It's a FAAAAAKE!
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 9:36:25 PM #
I don't think it's fake -- but I do think it's an early design study as has been pointed out (and as it says on the original).

And that Faves tab should allow you to move things around in any order you want, otherwise what's the point?

Address Book Screen Shot

ThePolack @ 5/8/2003 9:21:14 PM #
Yeah, yeah, multitasking... updated launcher... new look... blah blah blah. Did anyone else notice some of the details of the Address Book screen shot though? That's what I'm most interested in. I see that personal and business addresses are separate now (hell, it supports two addresses now).

I'm not extremely familiar with OS 5 since I don't have an OS 5 device, but I was under the impression that the OS 5 address book had the same limitations as the older versions, namely only one address per entry, and nowhere near as many fields per contact as can be found in even the most basic PC-based PIM application these days.

I've been annoyed for quite some time now by the inability to truly sync my Palm with my desktop/laptop without resorting to buying an additional program for the Palm. I haven't upgraded to an OS 5 device because so far they haven't offered anything I really want or need in a PDA. Sure, the new processors are nice and powerful, but the old OS 4 models suited my needs quite well (I have a laptop for mobile multimedia, and I'd rather use a real digital camera with a fairly decent lens than a camera built into a phone or a PDA).

But if the new OS offers an address book application that can actual keep track of ALL of the fields in my contact database rather than the fairly measly subset that OS 4 programs support, than that's finally a feature that could entice me to upgrade. It's the little details like this that excite me more than multitasking and wireless support and cosmetic changes. Sometimes such simple changes can make a much bigger difference in the day-to-day use of a device than the major increases in processing power could ever hope to.

RE: Address Book Screen Shot
mikecane @ 5/8/2003 9:38:39 PM #
"Sometimes such simple changes can make a much bigger difference in the day-to-day use of a device than the major increases in processing power could ever hope to."

-- yes, like Go to Top/Go To Bottom in Memo Pad!

RE: Address Book Screen Shot
MichaelSD @ 5/9/2003 1:40:44 AM #
Yes, the Address book looks very nice. The built in one is getting old. It has by far not enough fields. Hope that it will change in OS6.

RE: Address Book Screen Shot
ganoe @ 5/10/2003 7:35:13 AM #
The address book screen shot doesn't do much for me. People keep making claims about more fields, but there's nothing to show that in this screen shot. The personal/work/other tabs make me wonder if the first and last name fields are on every tab. Seems like a poor design to me.
RE: Address Book Screen Shot
JKingGrim @ 5/10/2003 6:21:47 PM #
Why would they have multiple first/last name fields? Thats just dumb. In personal, they most likely have all the name, address, phone, ect. In buisiness, they probly have work number, company, ect. In other, I don't know.

RE: Address Book Screen Shot
MichaelSD @ 5/12/2003 7:01:11 AM #
Well, this screenshots do not tell much about the real facts. But it would assume the basic "Outl@@k" type functionality. But, lets wait for more info.

RE: Address Book Screen Shot
SPCagigas @ 5/13/2003 3:33:01 PM #
Hmmmm.
The Newton 2.0 Names app did all that way back in 1997...
And it's still more flexible than Outlook, let alone anything on a Palm.

end of debate on VG

Stingray @ 5/9/2003 2:22:58 AM #
come on guys, how can it be a silkscreen when it shows the time?



"May the potato be with you!"

RE: end of debate on VG
helf @ 5/9/2003 8:54:07 AM #
thats what I was saying.. That IS a VG area.

RE: end of debate on VG
gmed @ 5/9/2003 9:47:07 AM #
If it is VG, why would you want to collapse it? I think its a SS beccause of the pen icon, which allows you to drop it and use an alternate input method.

RE: end of debate on VG
Verteron @ 5/9/2003 11:17:04 AM #
gmed, I think you're confusing VG with a Silkscreen. A Silkscreen is a fixed area printed on to the top of the digitizer and is not an LCD screen. This is what all Palms except the Handera and Sony NX/NV/NZ have. A Virtual Graffiti area is just an extra part of the LCD that displays a picture of the Graffiti area, but can just as well display a movie or an application window...

RE: end of debate on VG
gmed @ 5/9/2003 2:17:02 PM #
OK, thanks for the explanation. I'm switching from the pocket pc camp, we never had these issues. Looking at that picture, then I can say that it surely has a VG. Now, why does Sony call its VG a silk screen on the NX series?

RE: end of debate on VG
Verteron @ 5/9/2003 3:23:54 PM #
No problem, the the short answer is I don't know why some companies use one term and others use another. Synonyms I've come across for VG:

- Virtual graffiti
- Soft input area
- Soft graffiti
- Virtual silkscreen
- Virtual input area
- Collapseable input area
- Collapseable graffiti area

... and so forth. Oh, and it's good to hear you're making the switch ;)

RE: end of debate on VG
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:30:12 PM #
OK, I can understand the lower right icon *possibly* being a pencil. And I can buy that it might pop up a list of alternate input methods (for God's sake, the FITALY addicts would die if they couldn't have it!). But WTF is up with that UP ARROW?!

Could it be -- to bring up the Command Bar?!

But then, where's the DOWN arrow to collapse the SG area?!

RE: end of debate on VG
ganoe @ 5/10/2003 7:30:06 AM #
The up arrow is probably the graffiti shift indicator. Assuming the cursor is at the first character of a line in the address book, shift/caps would be on.
RE: end of debate on VG
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 10:04:20 AM #
I think you got it! That makes sense.

OK, so now where is the DOWN arrow to collapse the area?!

I now think that "pen-like" icon on the lower right is actually a TOGGLE for the SG area. Tap once, and it changes it state: Open or Close.

RE: end of debate on VG
JKingGrim @ 5/10/2003 12:19:27 PM #
>>The up arrow is probably the graffiti shift indicator. Assuming the cursor is at the first character of a line in the address book, shift/caps would be on.

You don't even need to be in a field to have shift on. And it is definately shift indicator. In the first pic, its there, and in the second pic its not. It really makes sense to stop wasting the main screen area for the shift indicator when you have VG.

RE: end of debate on VG
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 6:21:46 PM #
Uhhh... having been rightly chastised for not studying the screens carefully enough, I went back to them and discovered something no one else has.

Er, what was March 12th of 2002?

RE: end of debate on VG
JKingGrim @ 5/10/2003 8:30:12 PM #
Ummmmm...
[thinking]

(I just googled html codes)

RE: end of debate on VG
mikecane @ 5/11/2003 12:14:34 PM #
Gak! It's so obvious. March 12th, 2002 was a TUESDAY. Go look.

(It's now obvious that the time mnachine feature has been pushed ahead from OS7 to OS6!)

RE: end of debate on VG
JKingGrim @ 5/11/2003 4:52:59 PM #
Well, it seems the OS still needed a bit of tweaking.

By the way, where did the pics come form?

RE: end of debate on VG
mikecane @ 5/11/2003 5:17:10 PM #
Someone posted an URL to them in a thread here (I think it was here... yeah, up there...). I emailed Ryan and he flipped -- he hadn't yet read PIC and thought I was the source! Ha! I wish!

RE: end of debate on VG
Minstrel @ 5/15/2003 12:04:41 PM #
mikecane said:
I now think that "pen-like" icon on the lower right is actually a TOGGLE for the SG area. Tap once, and it changes it state: Open or Close.

I agree. that would work quite well.. And it would be great if tap-hold would bring up a way to change which entry method you wanted to use!

RE: end of debate on VG
JKingGrim @ 5/18/2003 10:03:40 AM #
Perhaps when you press the app's title bar, it drops down a list of all currently running apps. That would be simple easy and convienient multitasking.

First units with OS 6 when?

SaabCaptain @ 5/9/2003 10:53:40 AM #
Is the implication from PalmSource that since OS6 will be released before year end that handhelds with OS6 will be released in the holiday season... or are we looking at the typical "March-April 2004" new release window for OS6 handhelds? Any thoughts?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: First units with OS 6 when?
mikecane @ 5/9/2003 11:32:16 PM #
January 2004 earliest. Unless Sony announces something on 12/31/03 (and even if they do, you still won't see it in stores until 1/04).

Something tells me this Xmas season is going to be *abysmal* for PalmOS PDA sales. Most of the money will wait for OS6 devices in 2004...

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
JKingGrim @ 5/10/2003 12:28:41 PM #
Couln't we expect them like right after the OS is released? They still run ARM processors, so couldn't companies already be designing thier OS6 devices?

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
abosco @ 5/10/2003 2:39:21 PM #
Actually, I think Sony will jump on this release. Once OS 6 goes GM and is sent to licensees, I'd say within two months Sony will have an NX with OS 6 out the door in time for early November, well before the start of Christmas shopping on Black Friday. Palm, on the other hand, may wait.

The hardware is already here. It's going to run the same processor, so it shouldn't take as long as OS 5 did to come out in an actual device. With OS 5, they needed up get a new processor AND a new OS.

I actually think this year will be huge for Palm OS sales. If Sony doesn't release something extremely startling by next month, the PPC OEM's will own the summer.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
mikecane @ 5/10/2003 6:23:55 PM #
Well, I'm the pessimist. I still say PalmOS 6 will not ship until the last second of the last minute of the last hour of the last day of this year. Even Sony couldn't get an OS6 device out in November -- unless they have a time machine! (And that's not supposed to be in OS6 -- that's OS7!)

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
Gekko @ 5/10/2003 9:19:49 PM #
"Late 2003" is Palmspeak for 1Q 2004.

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
abosco @ 5/11/2003 12:33:56 AM #
Well keep in mind Sony released the N760c quickly after OS 4.1 went GM, and also that Sony released the NR series quickly after the Motorola 66 MHz DragonBall Super VZ processor was available.

This is definitely not an incompetant company. We're talking Sony, the company that's going against Microsoft with Palm OS and is in the black. They understand the importance of the holiday season, as does PalmSource and receiving royalties on all those holiday sales.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
mikecane @ 5/11/2003 12:16:27 PM #
"We're talking Sony, the company..."

...that used non-existent film reviewers to provide fake praise quotes in ads for its rotten movies!!

...that recently stated news.com would be embarrassed at all the errors in its report about MStick changing -- and it turned out NOTHING in news.com's report was wrong!

...that licked its chops thinking it was going to trademark the term "shock and awe" and degrade it to the level of videogame commoditization.

But I have made the point.

Which is: never be a suckup for any company. Especially one you *don't* work for.

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
abosco @ 5/11/2003 2:57:11 PM #
Alright, let me rephrase:

This is definitely not an incompetant company. We're talking Sony Clie Division, the company that's going against Microsoft with Palm OS and is in the black. They understand the importance of the holiday season, as does PalmSource and receiving royalties on all those holiday sales. Sony isn't the fourth biggest corporation in the world for no reason.

Don't make me start marqueeing things.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
mikecane @ 5/11/2003 5:14:28 PM #
>>Don't make me start marqueeing things.

Uncle! Uncle!

(But when we meet, shall we play baseball? I'll bring the BAT! nyahaha!)

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
hotpaw4 @ 5/13/2003 3:20:21 PM #
someone wrote:
> Well, I'm the pessimist. I still say PalmOS 6 will not ship until the last second of the last minute of the last hour of the last day of this year.

During a public PalmSource presentation, the date for release to licensees was said to be sometime "this Fall". Since Fall ends December 20th, this would make the ship date at least 11 days earlier than the guestimate given above.

My recollection is that it took around 4+ months from the time OS 5 was released to licensees until the new handhelds were out on the market.

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
JKingGrim @ 5/18/2003 9:42:46 AM #
Perhaps when you press the app's title bar, it drops down a list of all currently running apps. That would be simple easy and convienient multitasking.

RE: First units with OS 6 when?
JKingGrim @ 5/18/2003 9:59:58 AM #
Sorry. Wrong thread.

memory usage and stuff.

sporadic @ 5/11/2003 8:29:27 AM #
Just a thought: Currently only parts of OS5 are ARM native and third party apps are mostly still written in 68K code and just get accelerated by the PACE API transparency layer. Now 68K code is 16bit and nice and compact, ARM code is 32bit and relatively large (not x86 monster size but still larger than 68K code) and as far as I know palm aren't using the 16bit "Thumb" ARM interface.

Our program sizes are going to get a fair bit bigger and the OS will probably take up an appreciably larger area of flash/ROM. If OS6 is totally ARM native it makes me wonder how usefull an upgrade to today's models would really be - 16MB of RAM and 8MB of ROM in the Tungsten T might not take you as far on the new OS as it does right now. Obviously the PIM databases wont change much but everything else will.

I cant say I'm drooling all over the screenshots like the rest of you. I actually like the simplicty of the palm interface, 3D adds nothing usefull, just wastes memory with pixmaps and takes up more screen area. Hell, I didn't even get a colour palm until a month ago because my old one got flattened. That doesn't mean I'm anti-innovation, just that I dont want to see this kind of prettification at the expense of usability. Oh and I dont see the need to upgrade every new release. Obsolecence is usually more about a users mindset than sudden inability to perform a task.

TBH I dont give a flying monkey's about large screens or other things that require pocket distorting battery size. The primary reason I have a palm device is because it is so small it can be taken everywhere without a second thought. I apply the same principal to other devices, my eminently portable exilim s2 camera being a case in point - semi quality (2Mpixel)in a pocket all the time is better than having a 4.2 Mpixel monster in a drawer at home. I travel all the time (I work for cruise ship company) so battery life, portability and simplicty in usage/(inter)operation are essential to me. I dont really like this current fashion for "thumboards", I hope a stylus input machine will always stay in the product line-ups, after all it was the very reason I bought my first palm, the 3com palmpilot pro - back in er.. 97? - over a psion. I have a laptop for serious data entry.

OK, I'll stop ranting now, very uncharactoristic.

RE: memory usage and stuff.
bcombee @ 5/12/2003 3:19:47 AM #
Palm OS 5 can use Thumb, and the default code generation for ARMlets using the CodeWarrior for Palm OS V9 tools is Thumb mode. The minimum requirements for ARM processors for OS 5 devices is the ARM 4T architecture, which includes the Thumb extensions.

Right now, most ARMlets are used just for speed-up purposes, so plain 32-bit ARM code is preferred. However, as applications become more ARM-intensive, I'd expect there to be more Thumb code used for the size reduction purposes you mention.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: memory usage and stuff.
iebnn @ 5/12/2003 5:26:16 AM #
Sony makes a 4megapixel (and 3mp ver. of the same model) camera with 3x optical zoom that is very small and light. It very easily fits in my pocket. 2mp is not so useful unless you're not printing any of your photos.

I have a huge-color-screened NX that lasts me over a day in battery life. I can't imagine using my device for 5 hours in a day, unless I was listening to mp3s on a plane or something, but nothing in the average day. I think battery life is fine right now. Also, the new devices are much easier on the eyes than old 160x160 monochrome devices. It IMPROVES usability. You're hoping for something that will never happen -- Sony/palm/etc is not about to switch back to 160x160 monochrome for their devices. You seem happy with just staying where palm was a few years ago. CPU improvements just take up more memory and kill battery life.

RE: memory usage and stuff.
sporadic @ 5/13/2003 9:39:01 AM #
nono, i'm happy with my tungsten t - the screen is OK and battery life is so-so.

i have to admit that until very recently i found no real use for colour on my palm, mostly i use it for textual information - PIM stuff primarilly and books or offline web content second. i just like the simplicity of design and ease of use that the palm interface offers. cramming it full of 3D icons would seem to be a backward step, but i'm sure its the way things will go. i really do hope there will always be one highish end machine with stylus input in the range.

on the camera side - yeah well i used to have a canon digital ixus but kept finding i didn't have it with me when i wanted it. also the battery life sucked and it has appreciable shutter lag. the exilim range have outstanding battery life, no shutter lag at all and they are absolutely tiny. mine has no optical zoom, but i never use that for these types of pics anyway. i have other cameras for quality images - i still use alot of slide film and a slide scanner for ultimate digital quality.

RE: memory usage and stuff.
iebnn @ 5/14/2003 3:48:46 AM #
I've been mostly happy with my sony camera. It's very, very small and has a great battery life. It does have its problems though, as some photos have too much noise in some areas, but that is not so common. I'm just saying though that you can get high quality, small digital cameras (there are several companies that make small 3 or 4 megapixel digital cameras). Actually now that I think of it, Sony has a 5megapixel camera that is the size of mine IIRC.

I'd never go back to a monochrome 160x160 screen, as the new ones are just so much easier on the eyes. Remember that these screenshots are most likely not of what OS5 will be when it is released. It seems to be just a concept. I don't really see 3D buttons as a step back though, as memory is not an issue (it's only going to take up a little bit of ROM) and it just looks a little nicer (potentially, if they do it right). They dont have to take up any more space either.

OS6 App Icons

ozz @ 5/11/2003 11:08:42 PM #
The application icons shown on the right-hand screen shot remind me of SilverScreen icons. I'm sure these are just prototype but they do look good.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- Bill Gates (1955-), in 1981
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