Comments on: Rumor: New Details on the Tungsten T3, E and Zire 21

Not really. According to the following study by eTForecasts, smartphone sales have already significantly affected the sales of pdas. Furthermore, the boom in Symbian smartphone devices is a testament to this fact:

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3717.html

However, I disagree smartphone will DESTROY the pda industry. The fact is that Pdas will always be around, b/c they fill a particular niche that they are suited for. The reason the PDA market isn't growing is because it has matured, not because of any deficit and functionality. However, the PDA market will never surpass 20 million units worldwide as one fantasized and will maintain the 14-15 million units its averaged the last couple years. The exception to this may be in the advent of certian niches like gaming (Tapwave device etc). Thus, it's not like PDA's are going anywhere. There will always be a market for them, but the fact is that market will be vastly miniscule and eclipsed by the larger smartphone segment. In fact many analysts are already predicting that smartphone sales in 2004 will eclipse the total volume of units of pdas! Other studies have predicted that by 2007 smartphones shipments will represent (at min) nearly 5% of all handsets reaching 45 million/year.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3454.html

Thus, sales of smartphones are definitely affecting the PDA industry as that segment stagnates, while in the future the proportion of smartphones of world wide handset sales will continue to rise and eventually become dominant. In fact, it was this realization that was behind Palm's acquisition of Handspring. It totally makes sense for PalmOne to turn its focus on the potential of a possible future 300 million smartphone industry than remain #1 in a stagnating PDA industry of only ~14 million sales. This doesn't mean they will drop Pda's, but it is not where the future profitability of the company lies. The Treo600 will be a critical device in their effort to secure a future in this segment for sure...

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-better living through better technology.

PDAs I also like to be small, but not as small as a phone. The screen has to be big enough to be usable for more complex applications. Also the input area (whether it be stylus or key based) has to be large enough to be comfortable and easy to use.

I know a lot of people think smartphones are great, but for me they demonstrate a major clash of conflicting design needs. A smartphone is usually too big to be a phone and too small to be PDA - as far as I'm concerned anyway.

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The Phantom Strikes again

It would be great if we can install Palm OS to those little laptops (like Panasonic T1) now. Current laptop is good but just taking too long to boot up the Win2K and run these applications.

That said, I think what will eventually happen is that the market for smartphone features will trim down and you will see phones that can communicate with pdas but only for the information that is relevent, ie phone numbers and pictures of the individuals. Although an arguement could be made for apps that deal with the internet, such as downloadable maps, restaurant directions, ect.

However, these phones would be much cheaper and much smaller, because it would not need all the memory, processing power and so forth of the pda. Simply the connectivity and the ability to communicate and share information.

What percent of PDA owners "type long documents" on their devices? Perhaps less than 1 percent? Small size will be a more important "feature" for Josephine Average and this is why traditional PDAs are on their last legs. Not many people will carry a seperate PDA if their phone can do most of the same jobs.

Handspring's mistakes with previous Treos have now given Symbian the window of opportunity needed to butcher Palm's carcass. (subtle hyperbole)

Has anyone noticed that PDA's are advancing in ways that smartphones cannot possibly cover, like widescreen displays and almost desktop functionality? Everyone is screaming for 480 x 320, or 640 x 480, hard drives, etc...Lots of people will do their basic PIM on a smartphone, but there will always be handhelds, just like there will always be notebook computers, etc...

Also, the Zire 21 with OS 5 sounds interesting, but what is the advantag of OS 5 over OS 4 on a low-res B&W display with no wireless or multimedia capability?

Why not multimedia? You don't need hires and color to play mp3s. Now, the cheapest PDA on the market can play mp3s. This is great. Palm is certainly on a roll with the T3, Z71, Z21, and T|e. They are all excellent PDAs.

1) decent sound (i.e. MP3 capability)
2) a thin form factor
3) a universal connector
4) decent battery life

If it has all four, I'm sold.

Lower power and much higher performance for applications which have had their compute bound sections recompiled into native (pno)armlets.

The speed difference can be quite drastic between the OMAP and the DragonBall. For example, compressing a very large ebook with Wordsmith on an M515 took almost 20 minutes. It's a lot of processing, but still, that's a pretty long wait. The exact same book on the T|T takes 18 *seconds*.

WOW, I was thinking of displaying JPEGs, but now that you mention it, I do sometimes wait until my Clie NR is in the cradle and just let it compress a 1 meg book for 20 minutes. 18 seconds? I could do that while getting my pajamas on to read the book at bedtime.

But, I REALLY NEED virtual graffiti for FITALY virtual. That means a T3, but I am not interested in paying $400 for hardware that is roughly equivalent to what Dell will be selling for half that by the time the T3 arrives.

What a messy market. What I really want is....well, we have all said it a million times and Sony is not making a TG50 with VG for $250.

Hahaha. That's why it's so cheap! Just a basic PDA with a kick ass screen. Exactly what I want, and it's not an SJ22.

Not really. Lets say an app supported OS4 low res and OS5 hidensity. POS will automatically use the low res bitmaps, while still keeping OS5 enhancements. And if the app was devided into to different prc files (one to support OS4 low res and one for OS5 hidensity) it would take twenty minutes to copy and paste lowres bitmaps into the OS5 prc.

It's never enough for you guys..... Jeez........"

LOL! Hey, its freaking 4 am eastern time and we're reading PIC for goodness sakes!! Hell yeah, we're never satisfied!!

Btw, I agree about the backlight. A SD slot would be pretty nice too...

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-better living through better technology.

You are pretty naive if you think that those "99 BUCKS" are driven by the hardware costs. For the same money, you get a complete 1.3Mpixel digital camera, complete with color TFT and SD slot.

Across the entire Palm line, the device is probably sold for many times its actual hardware cost. You are paying for software and compatibility with these devices. And leaving out features like an SD slot isn't driven by hardware costs, it's driven by trying to segment the market.

PIC needs a message editor :)

Actually, that's at least a $40 difference at retail. Don't forget that PalmOne, the distributor (if any) and the retailer all need to make a profit on that additional $20.

mike d

Don't forget about that the battery that would be needed to keep the screen going. Palm is probably keeping the monochrome screen to maintain battery life for all those college-aged non-techie palm toters who don't know what a (old school) palm pilot can do.

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If you feel like you're under control, you're just not going fast enough.

It's actually worse than that. You can possibly get the low-end, passive matrix, 12-bit color screens for ~$25 each, but a good active matrix screen will cost more. A m515 caliber screen likely costs $40-$50 each, wholesale, in quantity.

If Palm can get a color screen on a <$100 PDA, that would be great (any screen quality). I don't really see it as worth their while to hit th $150 price point (like Dell's soon to be released X3). Anything over $100 isn't an impulse buy anymore, so a $200 TE should be close/good enough.

The non-discounted retail price point for multi-media handhelds with color displays, card slots and stereo audio is going down to around $200 to $300, but not to $99 (Yet!).

Yep, you can also get a Gameboy Advance, color phone, or a handheld color TV for that $99. There is even a new PDA for schoolkids with color and higher resolution, the iSprout, for $99. If they can do it, Palm can do it. The Royal Linea has a $99 model that has 32 meg of RAM, a higher res screen than the mono Zires and a backlight. Palm should be making a ton of profit on these low end Zires. But, with the PPCs gaining ground on Palm, they should be offering far more competitive models than they are. The only model they currently sell that is competive is the Zire 71.

I have gotten pretty good descriptions of them all between the three sites I keep visiting. It will be interesting to see what I have marked on my spreadsheet from the different rumors matches up when the models actually come out.
- Erica

1. I want to connect to the internet for email without being FORCED to use AT&T (I'm referring to the Tungsten W).

Solution: get a Bluetooth Palm like the Tungsten T so I can hook up to my choice of cellphone and service wirelessly. No, a cable is NOT acceptable. I do NOT want to use up my precious SD slot to hook up to my phone either. I need the VFS memory in the SD memory card to download attachments. The Bluetooth must be built-in.

2. I want to be able to send and reply to email messages without getting carpel tunnel from graffiti (I'm referring to the Tungsten T of course).
Solution: get a keyboard Palm, like the Tungsten C or W.

3. I want PalmOS 5. My Tungsten W is starting to feel pokey.

So....why is the Tungsten E not a Bluetooth version of the Tungsten C? Am I niche market to want connectivity, speed, and decent text input? No keyboard and no bluetooth? Nuts...

-------
James Sorenson

I can't see a company equiping its road warriors with a non bluetooth device. Considering how hard it is these days to buy a non-bluetooth business phone.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

"Transflective 320x320 screen, 32m RAM Mp3's in a very similar to m5xx body. But no BT at $199."

The problem is, what's there to prevent your competition from including those features you are "saving" for the next release? Answer: nothing, and when they realise it, they'll gladly put you out of business.

This kind of thinking nearly did in the US auto makers back in the 70's.

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Manufacturing scale and profitability.

It takes awhile before anybody can include new feature in volume and still make money, especially after taking into account R&D, sales and marketing costs.

Any time you buy the latest PDA, PC, car, TV, whatever, remember it's already obsolete. The R&D labs are already are building stuff that's at least 2 or 3 generations ahead. (2 GHz G5's and 3 GHz P4's? Bah... both IBM and Intel have circuits in the labs that run *well* over 10 GHz. Why buy a pokey slow 2-3 GHz machine when you can just wait a few more years for something fast?)

Remember, the original Zire, m130, m515 and (I presume) i705 will all be sent to the "Hall of Fame" upon the release of these three new units so it makes sense to keep the Z71 around as long as possible...I think that the soccer moms comprise the majority of the Zire's target audience wouldn't care too much about having 16mb ram instead of 32mb.

I know that the Palm OS is a thousand times better than pocket PC but most people only care about form factor. Thats why the Palm V, Vx was so successful. Palm should not forget that.

Personally, I *like* the slider. I chose to buy a T and a T2. I intend to get the T3.

I have also owned a V, Vx, M500, M505, and an M515. I currently own a Tungsten C in addition to the T2. Each model has pros and cons, but essentially I like them all (OK, the M505 was a bit naff). The V series was certainly a classic design but, with the right software such as SlideFree, the T2 has become my favourite Palm yet. My only quibble is that Palm hasn't bundled such software with the T series, but I'm happy to support 3rd party developers by buying their products.

Slider or otherwise, there is NO way I'd switch to an Axim in particular or PPC in general.

I much prefer the VG TT form factor to the HP. It's a tiny bit thicker but much smaller and more pocketable when closed.

Thanks, robrecht

FM/AM receiver PLEASE!!! This way, when the next Blackout comes, we'll know what's going on!:):)

BTW, PalmInfocenter ROCKS!!!!

My IIIx is still working since 7/99!!! I use Panasonic Rechargable Batteries, swapping them back and forth with a pair inside Panasonic portable CD Player where they get recharged! NO MORE 15 CATEGORIES PLEASE!!!

I personnaly am much more bothered by the 4kb memo limit

Here is the example of how 15 Categories is UNBEARABLE!!! I am a musician, and need to be able to group-isolate by instrument, or "doubling", i.e. drummer who sings is an example of a "doubler"(an official, common practice term in music industry). If I need a drummer, then its All Drummers List, but what if I need a SINGING DRUMMER, Drums MV(singing drummer), then I'd like another List(Memorized View), Category, etc.

17 BASIC CATERGORIES

Bass
Cello
Customer
Drums
Emergency
Employer Type 1
Employer Type 2
Guitar
Harp
Female Singer
Male Singer
Piano
Sax
Student
Trumpet
Trombone
Violin

4 "DOUBLERS" CATEGORIES EXAMPLE
Bass MV(singing Bass)
Drums MV(singing Drums)
Guitar MV(singing Guitarist)
Piano MV(singing Keyboardist)

I'd like to have much more than 15 "Basic" Categories, or 4 Doubler Categories. Let's face it, there is more to life than those Categories, even if one is a musician:):):) RIGHT?

My highly UNPLEASANT workaround vs. this HORRIBLE 15 Categories Limit is --

On Desktop, I ALWAYS replicate Category Name in Title Field. That's my version of Backup for Category Field, which is HIGHLY UNSTABLE, i.e. it change on PDA if one starts adding, deleting, renaming categories

For Doublers, if it's a singer, I add MV or FM(male/female vocalist) after their main instrument(bass, guitar)

If a Bass player(electric) also plays Accoustic Bass(AKA Upright, Contrabass), I can add "Accoustic" and so on.

Then, with Filters(on Desktop) I create Memorized Views. THOSE VIEWS(my Substitution to Categories) I'd like to be able to Transfer to PDA.

So, call I don't care what it's called -- Categories-Classes-Groups-Lists, I need to be able to isolate people within those Categories-Classes-Groups-Lists. I.e. -- fine lets call them all MUSICIANS = 1 Category name, BUT I'd like the UNLIMITED # of Memorized Lists that I can Sync back and forth between Desktop and PDA. Thus far, thanks to Datebk4 by Pimlico, I can Filter and Memorize Lists of Contacts, but pulling those lists is S L O W, at least on my IIIx, unlike on my Palm Desktop, where it's INSTANT!

AGAIN, I don't want to get bogged down in the wording here -- I don't care what it's called -- Categories-Classes-Groups-Lists, I need to be able to isolate people within those

Palm Desktop kind of hints at this by allowing a Contact to have 2nd Category, which doesn't Sync to PDA. Only 4 Phone ## per Contact are possible, and only 1 email. BUT a lot of folks have more than 4 phone ##, and more than 4 emails:)

And don't even get me started on the possible Names-Types-Categories-Classes-Groups-Lists-Kinds of Memos(Notes) or Appointments, or Tasks(To Do's)

I'd like to be able to View all of those as LIST!!!! INSTANTLY.

Call it LISTS, CALL IT CATEGORIES, CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT, BUT JUST PLEASE GIVE ME MORE THAN 15 OF THOSE, and let them all Sync to and from Desktop!

As to 4K per Memo, that's BAD TOO! At least if that's so, on PDA, a 2nd Memo should be created AUTOMATICALLY, with IDENTICAL Title, and ".2" or ".02" to avoid Truncation. But better yet, do away with 4K Limit, and while at it, make those Memos Formatable, ala Wordsmith!!!

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My IIIx is still working since 7/99!!! I use Panasonic Rechargable Batteries, swapping them back and forth with a pair inside Panasonic portable CD Player where they get recharged! NO MORE 15 CATEGORIES PLEASE!!!

SJW: The memory will be a moot point unless you plan on getting the original T|T which had 16Mb (14Mb available) RAM. The current model is the T|T2 with 32Mb, and the upcoming T|T3 has 64Mb. The only T|T with the reflective screen is the original. It is very clear and the best for outdoors, but not as bright and clear indoors as the T|E, T|T2, or T|T3. The slider? Depends on your preferences... some hate them, some think they're ok, others love them. I'm a hardcore user who gives about a week worth of use and abuse everyday to an original T|T. The slider has always performed flawlessly. And for those who think it's such a horrible invention: learn how to use the nav pad already!

A device which fills my hand and has great buttons, folds down to fit in my shirt pocket... and I can button the pocket. Could not do that with the 515.

I was just there and they had the Z21, I snapped some shots of it with my Z71 if anyone wants to see it.

No MP3 capabilities that I saw. No headphone jack.

I can put these on the PIC if someone tells me how.

Here ya go...

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dlipone/lst?.dir=/Zire+21&.view=t

Hope all those curious about the Zire 21 will enjoy seeing it!

Just leave him alone so he can finish the article!

;)