Comments on: PalmSource Introduces Palm OS Cobalt and Garnet

PalmSource LogoPalmSource today introduced Palm OS Cobalt, previously know as Palm OS 6. Cobalt is a new enhanced version of the operating system that is designed to enable the creation of new categories of devices for the communications, enterprise, education and entertainment markets. PalmSource also announced Palm OS Garnet, an enhanced version of the popular Palm OS 5, designed to accelerate the development of Palm Powered handhelds and smartphones.
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Upgrade

flevy @ 2/10/2004 11:01:35 AM #
I may have missed it in the article but is there any discussion of being able to upgrade existing units like a T3?

RE: Upgrade
s_teve @ 2/10/2004 12:39:55 PM #
I think we can forget about the whole upgrade thing
unfortunetly. Long live OS 5

RE: Upgrade
rsc1000 @ 2/10/2004 1:25:39 PM #
>>I think we can forget about the whole upgrade thing
unfortunetly. Long live OS 5

Why do you think that? palmOne will probably offer upgrades (for a price) for high end devices like the T|C and T|T3. As for why its not mentioned here - this conference if a PalmSource dev conference - its up to OEMs (like palmOne) to offer upgrades (or not).

RE: Upgrade
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 5:37:22 PM #
>>>I think we can forget about the whole upgrade thing
unfortunetly. Long live OS 5

I'll be very happy with my TH55.

Until I see OS6... hah!

RE: Upgrade
JKingGrim @ 2/10/2004 5:48:51 PM #
Palm has stated that they will provide upgrades for select models. The T3 is the likeliest candidate. Which other models? ??

RE: Upgrade
feranick @ 2/11/2004 4:10:45 PM #
The actual upgrade was supposed to be for the Tungsten C. there is a all thread about this:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6480

There is nothing sure about this though. Don't expect the upgrade for certain.

Nicola



RE: Upgrade
rsc1000 @ 2/11/2004 4:33:42 PM #
>>Palm has stated that they will provide upgrades for select models. The T3 is the likeliest candidate. Which other models? ??

T|C?

Sounds promising

Fizy @ 2/10/2004 11:01:31 AM #
Palm OS 6/ Cobalt sounds like it will open the doors to potentially very robust devices. The support for 32, 000 by 32, 000 pixels is amazing. The 256MB RAM + 256 ROM also is very roomy. However, I would have liked to have seen options for a hard-drive based device -something like the Apple iPod. Apart from that though it seems like this new OS will really revolutionize what a device can do. Congrads PalmSource!!

Best wishes,
Feisal
RE: Sounds promising
hoodoo @ 2/10/2004 2:01:16 PM #
32,000 x 32,000 pixels!

What!?! No landscape? lol.

You could get 32k x 32k now, just buy 10,000 T|E's and arrange them in a square, and there you go!

RE: Sounds promising
Fernando @ 2/10/2004 5:04:12 PM #
actually you only require 100 T|E's, their resolution is 320x320, which means 32,000/320=100.... you put a couple too many zeros there in the above post

RE: Sounds promising
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 5:23:20 PM #
>>>32,000 x 32,000 pixels!

>>>What!?! No landscape? lol.

Funniest comment of the discussion. You should get an award. Or something.


RE: Sounds promising
PhoenixAG @ 2/10/2004 6:29:05 PM #
I agree :D
hoodoo...that really made me laugh out loud! hehe..

RE: Sounds promising
Hal2000 @ 2/10/2004 7:59:45 PM #
Actually, that many handhelds would be a landscape!

Zodiac2/T616
1.128 gigs under the hood.
RE: Sounds promising
oshmady @ 2/10/2004 9:30:53 PM #
actually, 100 would be 320 x 32,000

you do need 10,000 to get 32,000 x 32,000

RE: Sounds promising
skennedy1217 @ 2/11/2004 1:13:02 PM #
Oshmandy is right. 100 T|E's arranged in a square would be 10 across and 10 high. That would give you a screen resolution of 3,200 x 3,200...or if arranged in a row 32,000 x 320 (now that's what I call landscape!).

To get 32,000 by 32,000 res. you'd need a pattern of 100 across by 100 down. 100 x 100 = 10,000 T|E's.


________________________________
M100==>M500==>T|T==>T|T2==> ?

One step closer...

DWD @ 2/10/2004 11:12:25 AM #
One more step closer to new devices from Palm...*drool*

Limited vision

mikecane @ 2/10/2004 11:22:01 AM #
Max 256MB RAM?

Fire the person who put that stingy cap on it.

Should have been 1GB RAM for a start. (A 32,000 x 32,000 screen with 256MB MAX RAM? ROTFLMAO!)

I hate the names.

I am rechristening them:

PalmOS 5: Vanilla.

PalmOS6: Chocolate.

RE: Limited vision
lobotomic @ 2/10/2004 12:15:27 PM #
I agree that 256M will be too little too soon.

I agree too that the names are horrendous, impossible to pronounce in many languages (yes there are other languages than English), and impossible to relate to what's behind. If they wanted to hide which one's worse, they certainly succeeded. Plus, they combine with Palm One's nomenclature in a most ridiculous way!

"Does this Tungsten have Garnet?"
"No, Tungstens have Cobalt. It's Zires that have Garnet!"
"But my boyfriend's got a Tungsten with Garnet!"
"Ah, well, have you considered upgrading?"
"Gee, no, I thought it would be better to wait for Ruby ..."
"But Ruby the device or Ruby the OS?"
"No, Ruby the language!"
(....)

It would require the Monty Python to make it sound more absurd.


RE: Limited vision
RhinoSteve @ 2/10/2004 12:37:46 PM #
Well I like the names. It is for the mass market and not for dweebs that bitch on Internet newsgroups. If you don't like it and a mass market company like PalmSource came up with it, I think you seriously need to take a look at your personal life and determine why you don't like it. The rest of us will cash in on this.
RE: Limited vision
Michael Mace @ 2/10/2004 12:39:57 PM #
We can go higher than 256 megs in future editions of Palm OS Cobalt. And keep in mind that you can go to gigs of storage on a memory card.

As for the naming, numbers were a problem because in the PC world a higher number means the lower number is obsolete (Windows 98 immediately replaces Windows 95). Palm OS Garnet is just fine for many users and will persist a long time, so licensees asked us to move away from numbers.

I have worked on a lot of naming over the years, and the one sure thing is that you can never please everyone. It is very hard to find names that pass trademark muster and also do not mean something inappropriate in some country. We settled on minerals because they are an ingredient in many things. That seemed appropriate for software designed as an element in many great products.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource
On a Treo at the conference

RE: Limited vision
HandyMan @ 2/10/2004 1:41:58 PM #
Sounds reasonable. So will this be "Palm OS Cobalt 1.0" and "Palm OS Garnet 1.0"? I assume future versions with be "Palm OS Cobalt 1.1" etc...? I think peopel will just end up calling it POC and POG... hmmm... what version of POG is on your Zire?


RE: Limited vision
speedracer5 @ 2/10/2004 1:57:23 PM #
My opinion is I could care less about what they call it. Technically, I am more concerned with function that a name. We have two Chevrolet Luminas at work. As I said the name doesn't matter, since they are rear-wheel drive Corvette engined muscle machines built by our Holden counterparts downunder. As I said, function over a name.

------------------------------------------------------
You may be a race car driver at heart if you refer to leaving your driveway as "Turn 1"
RE: Limited vision
Marshall Flinkman @ 2/10/2004 2:24:47 PM #
Speedracer, I know I'm nitpicking--you say you're "more concerned with function that a name"--so don't say you "*could* care less" when what you mean, from the context given, is that you *couldn't* care less...

Ok, done nitpicking. Soapbox, anyone?

Garnet?
feranick @ 2/10/2004 2:25:30 PM #
What kind of mineral is Garnet?
RE: Limited vision
kblank19 @ 2/10/2004 3:01:10 PM #
more on the "i could care less" & "i couldn't care less"...

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm

RE: Limited vision
Michael Mace @ 2/10/2004 3:02:01 PM #
Re. the numbering, if you look in the About box for the new OS versions, what you will see is "Palm OS Cobalt 6.0" or "Palm OS Garnet 5.4." We won't be marketing the numbers at all, but they will be maintained in the background to help support reps do their jobs. It would have been too confusing to have two "version 1.0" products on the market.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: Limited vision
dustbunny44 @ 2/10/2004 3:11:55 PM #
M. Mace: I appreciated your comments and vision at previous Palmsource's. I didn't get to go this year, but I think it's great that Palmsoure's designated visionary (officially "Chief Competitive Officer") is with us here and contributing on this forum. Thanks.

RE: Limited vision
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 5:25:11 PM #
Thanks for commenting, Michael. Sure I know how tough it is to get names for trademarks -- and how using numbers is even worse. But you can't expect us (well, OK then: ME!) not to rag on it, can you?

But what's this about no landscape mode?! Is that true at all? Say it's there!

And I'm glad to hear that it can go past 256MB. The sooner the better. How soon it'll need to be done might even surprise you!

Now... if only The Graffiti/Xerox Suit would be put to rest and Graffiti Classic replace that abomination, pseudo-Jot!

RE: Limited vision
Wollombi @ 2/10/2004 7:09:01 PM #
>>"Should have been 1GB RAM for a start."<<

Hmm...I'm not sure I even want to think of the battery drain associated with that...


>>"We can go higher than 256 megs in future editions of Palm OS Cobalt. And keep in mind that you can go to gigs of storage on a memory card."<<

Seeing as SD only goes to 1GB, and that's barely on the market, does that mean that licensees are finally going to offer us something with SD *and* CF, which offers much larger capacities of memory, Mr. Mace? Sadly PalmSource was shortsighted enought to price out of the market the only licensee to date that offered such an option, Handera. I'm interested in your comments...


>>"I have worked on a lot of naming over the years, and the one sure thing is that you can never please everyone. It is very hard to find names that pass trademark muster and also do not mean something inappropriate in some country. We settled on minerals because they are an ingredient in many things. That seemed appropriate for software designed as an element in many great products."<<

Ok, I can't resist. Does this mean that the PalmOS naming process has become....elementary (Dr. Watson)?


>>"What kind of mineral is Garnet?"<<

It's a darkish red gemstone, not very valuable, but very hard.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Limited vision
Hal2000 @ 2/10/2004 10:02:50 PM #
Darnit! Garnet.

Zodiac2/T616
1.128 gigs under the hood.
Michael Mace ---> Palm's future ----> ????????
;-) @ 2/10/2004 11:05:51 PM #
I have worked on a lot of naming over the years, and the one sure thing is that you can never please everyone.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource
On a Treo at the conference

OK, now the naming drama is over, how about we hear a little about some more serious issues. Searching for your name brings up this little article:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5742

Since Palm is apparently now so open to suggestions, here are a few:

1) Release a 320 x 480, Vx-sized (thin, LIGHT) Palm ASAP. If you can't make it as small as a Vx, forget it. Despite what they say, size matters. Only a few fanatics will be submitting to those big, thick, heavy monsters that Sony is trying to ram down peoples' throats. Let Sony cater to suckers that want Monster Palms. Palm needs to get back to designing simple, elegant hardware that works for the way most people actually use their handhelds.

2) Make the Treo 600 available for $300 or less. If it's priced right, the Treo could become the new executive toy du jour - like the Vx was a few years ago. Price it much higher than $300 and watch it be ignored by everyone except the few hundred people that read Palm fan sites. The Treo 600 (or its immediate successor) may save Palm as long as the desire for quick profits doesn't win out over The Big Picture.

3) Stop the redundancy in Palm's software portfolio. Pick the best of breed apps and stick with them. If you really want to show what Palms can do, get users Hooked On Palm by creating a licensed suite of the best freeware and shareware Palm apps/games/utilities and bundling them with every Palm sold. I'd suggest looking at including as many of these as could be licensed for a reasonable price: Bejeweled, DiddleBug, HandyShopper, iSilo, Open, Vexed, Vindigo, YAUC, Zagat. Others - like APCalc, DateBk5, FindHack, LauncherX, McFile, TealLock, TealScript, To Do PLUS, Ultrasoft Money and Uninstall Manager - would make good replacements for those ancient original Palm ROM apps that do the same job. Sure, bundling hurts other developers, but it's all about survival of the fittest. Just look at what Microsoft has done over the years.

4) Stop skimping on the RAM. Yes, I know you want to sell SD cards, but at this point there's no excuse for releasing any PDA with less than 64 MB RAM.

5) Want to get innovative? How about pushing Palms as a low cost laptop alternative? A clone of the CLIE UX50 with a slightly bigger screen, CompactFlash and SD slots, 802.11b, Bluetooth and Word/Excel/Powerpoint apps is all the "laptop" a lot of employees really need. Cheap to buy, cheap to support. A TCO dream come true.

6) Hire what's left of the HandEra software engineering staff and use them to make some real improvements in the Palm OS. The "Zen of Palm" spin just doesn't cut it these days. Unfortunately, I envision a whole lotta current apps breaking if Palm finally advances the OS to where it needs to go.

7) Fear Microsoft. Palm's historical dominance in handhelds won't mean much if Microsoft starts giving away basic PPCs with every copy of Office. Don't think they can't or won't just buy the PDA market outright. The petty cash fund in Redmond could probably cover what was spent on worldwide sales of all PDAs last year.

8) Fear Nokia. Cellphones are already doing what most people use their Palms for. The average Joe isn't going to buy a Palm if their "free" cellphone comes with an address book, to do list, memo pad, date book, digital camera and games. Only geeks will be willing to carry two devices.

9) Adhere to the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid. Most Palm users never even use any programs other than the built in apps for a reason: Palms are almost perfect "as is". Just make them smaller, lighter, faster and more integrated with cellphones, digital cameras and MP3 players. Sound easy doesn't it?

10) Don't wait too long before selling out to Sony. A purchase for 800 million within the next six months - say, January 15, 2004 - sounds like a good way to exit stage left. Don't let me down - baby needs new shoes...

How about an update now that that "quiet period" is over, Michael?

Here's what I've seen/heard:

1) Sony's all over this one. Between the TH-55 and the new CLIE UX, the complaints are about to be silenced. I hope Palm is able to get better quality control from their Tungsten manufacturer, but I'm not holding my breath.

2) The sub-$300 Treos are coming not a minute too soon. (Actually, it's been easy to find a Treo 600 subsidized to $300 - $400 with contract for at least a couple months, but soon GSM phones will also be a lot cheaper.) Treo 600 sales volume are still low despite repeated claims they're "selling briskly". Apparently Palm is building to order and inventory is purposely
kept low. Sounds like Palm's learned its lesson and prefers to avoid another expensive inventory glut like what cost the ompany a couple hundred million two or three years ago. Smart move.

3) Despite your claimed aversion to bundling apps (supposedly "not fair" to developers), you've continued the trend Palm started with MultiMail/VersaMail/Documents To Go/DateBk/etc. About time. But HandyShopper and Ultrasoft Money should have been part of the PalmOS 6 ROM. Shame!

4) Still not enough RAM on the new Palm. We should be at 128 MB now.

5) The new CLIE is just weeks away and shows the "Palm as laptop" concept brilliantly.

6) The Be buyout was a massive waste of money. HandEra had a core group that you could have raided for next to nothing. Even Mike Waldron alone would have done more for Palm than what you paid for a dozen Bebies. I've seen a few apps break on PalmOS 6. Not many though.

7) Microsoft isn't pulling their punches these days but as you know, smartphones is where everyone is looking now. Unfortunately, looks like Palm figured this out a year too late. The Treo is being blatantly copied by PPC and those clones will be out by the summer. And the new PPC phones won't be ridiculous bricks this time. Advantage: Microsoft.

8) Nokia dropped the ball with N-Gage, Symbian still has syncing and other issues and the current Nokia phones have major ergonomic flaws, but Nokia learns quickly from their mistakes and has the $$$ to move on when something's just not working. Coming soon everywhere = streaming video/TV, cellphones with decent quality video cameras, smaller size. Advantage: Nokia.

9) Looks like Palm has kept KISS alive, (probably mainly to avoid blowing even more millions on support calls to Indian call centers). By the way... OUTSOURCING SUPPORT SUCKS - just thought you should know.

10) Sony wouldn't bite on the price. Did they realize they had no need to buy Palm since they're already getting the OS for peanuts and could mold it into whatever they wanted? The new Sony Desktop shows the kind of risk-taking Palm couldn't afford to do.


Overall, looks like a solid C- for Palm's report card this semester.


It's just too big.

RE: Michael Mace ---> Palm's future ----> ????????
;-) @ 2/11/2004 12:24:43 AM #
Actually, if there are more Indian call centers coming online, C- is too generous. Maybe a solid D instead.


It's just too big.

RE: Limited vision
Michael Mace @ 2/11/2004 1:19:38 AM #
As I look back to my previous posting, I think I covered the bases pretty well despite the quiet period. Rather than tediously re-posting my entire response, I'll just invite anyone who's interested to go back and look over the thread referenced above.

I'd also like to remind the gentle readers of PalmInfoCenter that there is no "Palm" anymore. Really, truly there isn't. There's a PalmSource, the software platform company I work for; and there's palmOne, the largest licensee of Palm OS. They are two totally separate companies, with separate management, stock, and headquarters. We're not even located in the same city.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: Limited vision
SeldomVisitor @ 2/11/2004 7:33:22 AM #
Sun Microsystems says they own the trademark to "Cobalt" (probably when used w.r.t. computers):

-- http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/

This doesn't seem to be the type of non-conflict between the trademarks for, say, Apple Computers and Apple Records.

Has PalmSource bought that trademark off of Sun?

RE: Limited vision
Alric @ 2/11/2004 10:00:58 AM #
Very limited indeed; no Mac support? Every single person I know that owns a Palm also owns a Mac. Mac users have always been second citizens to Palm and now that I will have to use Missing Sync I might as well get a PocketPC...

Cheers,

RE: Limited vision
bjchantry @ 2/11/2004 2:10:13 PM #
Sun Microsystems says they own the trademark to "Cobalt" (probably when used w.r.t. computers):

-- http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/

Am I missing something here, under C there is no Cobalt. Please explain

I went to the dark side for 9 months with a Windows PPC Phone Edition device, but now I AM BACK!!! Long live my T3 and Nokia 6310i.

RE: Limited vision
bjchantry @ 2/11/2004 2:12:52 PM #
Found it, the Trademark is for

Sun Cobalt whatever, Sun is part of that,

therefore Cobalt by itself I don't believe is trademarked. I am no trademark expert by any means so I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the trademark is exactly as it is written. Any experts out there?

I went to the dark side for 9 months with a Windows PPC Phone Edition device, but now I AM BACK!!! Long live my T3 and Nokia 6310i.

RE: Limited vision
SeldomVisitor @ 2/11/2004 2:31:29 PM #
Apple Records, Apple McIntosh, and the real fruit Apple McIntosh owner had conflicts sufficient for the courts to get involved.

Somehow, unless PalmSource bought out SUN's use of "Cobalt" (though I am not a lawyer), I would think sufficient similarity exists due to similar "sector" use (that is, both are computer oriented unlike Apple Computers and Apple Records!).

Note - NetBSD actually used "Cobalt" to describe an operating system thus perhaps PalmSource, while not in trouble for using "Cobalt", cannot trademark it.

Anywho, someday PalmSource will actually answer the question soemwhere...til then, an interesting aside...



RE: Limited vision
SeldomVisitor @ 2/11/2004 2:31:29 PM #
Apple Records, Apple McIntosh, and the real fruit Apple McIntosh owner had conflicts sufficient for the courts to get involved.

Somehow, unless PalmSource bought out SUN's use of "Cobalt" (though I am not a lawyer), I would think sufficient similarity exists due to similar "sector" use (that is, both are computer oriented unlike Apple Computers and Apple Records!).

Note - NetBSD actually used "Cobalt" to describe an operating system thus perhaps PalmSource, while not in trouble for using "Cobalt", cannot trademark it.

Anywho, someday PalmSource will actually answer the question soemwhere...til then, an interesting aside...


RE: Limited vision
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 2:36:15 PM #
The face icon tries to shill itself as an insider and can't even get it straight that Michael Mace works for the *software* company.

Michael Mace: Still awaiting word on --

1) PalmSource landscape standard (no icon shown for it in Status Bar)

2) Icon in Status Bar to invoke Command Bar (why must this be a silly two-step: Raise DIA, do Stroke)

RE: Michael Mace ---> Palm's future ----> ????????
;-) @ 2/12/2004 1:13:02 AM #
As I look back to my previous posting, I think I covered the bases pretty well despite the quiet period. Rather than tediously re-posting my entire response, I'll just invite anyone who's interested to go back and look over the thread referenced above.

I'd also like to remind the gentle readers of PalmInfoCenter that there is no "Palm" anymore. Really, truly there isn't. There's a PalmSource, the software platform company I work for; and there's palmOne, the largest licensee of Palm OS. They are two totally separate companies, with separate management, stock, and headquarters. We're not even located in the same city.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource


Whatever you say, Mike. ;-)

I suppose if enough people say it enough times it will be true. A lot of people here really believe what you say, so Palm's apparently managed to get the message out effectively over the past 6 months.

Some advice (take it with a grain of salt since obviously I know nothing about Palm software, hardware and the "Palm Economy"):

1) Tighten up the QC on your hardware. Poor quality will quickly kill off all goodwill the Palm name still has. Sony's new hardware is exponentailly better than what Palm offered with the T3 and people aren't so dumb as to not notice differences in "feel" when they compare hardware in the office supply stores. Remember what happened to the domestic car industry.

2) You need better screens. Sony's going to sell a ton of PDAs over the next six months just because of its screens. Licencing second tier screens won't cut it.

3) Treo's jump on the competition evaporates this spring. Sprint may be calling the shots, but you still need to look at the competition when specing the phone.

4) Hire Mike Waldron (from good old HandEra - remember them?) NOW. This guy could have saved you a few million in the past couple of years. Singlehandedly. Ask around - you'll see. Then again, you should already know this if you're really

"Mike
CCO, PalmSource".

5) Licence HandyShopper and ROM it. This should have been a no-brainer.

6) Licence FileMan and ROM it.

7) Licence Ultrasoft Money and ROM it.

8) Dump PalmGear and create your own download site. One that works and doesn't scr3w developers. The right decision is often the one that initially seems like the hardest to do. PalmGear is a malignant tumor that needs to be excised ASAP.

9) Follow your gut. I think you know what needs to be done. Palm's currently on life 8 of 9. The Treo tanking because of QC problems will put you onto life 9.

10) Expose yourself. No-one knows what Palms can really do. The previous article had suggested culling the top few Palm applications and making it easier for people to get them onto their Palms right away. That's what you should have done for the Treo too. Show 100 people that freeware app, Directory Assistant in action and you'll probably gererate a few sales to people socked by how useful the Treo 600 would suddenly seem.

http://home.triad.rr.com/rlwhitt/palm/#da

They show it around and word of mouth builds. That's the kind of buzz (Palm V-like) you need if Palm hope to withstand the Scandanavian phone onslaught coming this year. And pick up a Sony Ericsson T630 this week to see what level of quality people expect from a phone in 2004. Scary, isn't it? Aim low like Cadillac did with the Cimaroon and Palm will join Oldsmobile, Cadillac and the other dinosaurs in the Tar Pit.

Have a nice week, Mike. Be careful out there - it's a jungle.




It's just too big.

This is what people REALLY want
;-) @ 2/12/2004 4:14:24 AM #
http://www.sonyericsson.com/t630/

Phones like this make convergence brick-phones look bad.


It's just too big.

RE: Michael Mace ---> Palm's future ----> ????????
;-) @ 2/13/2004 2:07:57 AM #
Don't feel bad, Mike. It must be horrible knowing what you know and having to keep trying to spread the party line here. I wonder how many people REALLY believe the things you post here. Once you start talking like a marketing consultant and keep popping up attempting to do damage control, you lose credibility. Don't apologize - do something proactive instead.

How about addressing some of the concerns brought up by longtime Palm users? Face the Apple Abandonment issue. Clarify the status of a PalmOS 6 upgrade. Leak a photo or two of the i705 (...well, maybe not).


It's just too big.

RE: Limited vision
hotpaw4 @ 2/14/2004 8:59:38 PM #
> Face the Apple Abandonment issue.

There is no abandonment issue. The current Mac desktop will continue to support Garnet and earlier; and Mark/Space has already been lined up for Cobalt HotSync support. Mark/Space already does a better job supporting the Sony handhelds, so this might actually be a benefit for users with devices from multiple licensees.

RE: Limited vision
hotpaw4 @ 2/14/2004 8:59:38 PM #
> Clarify the status of a PalmOS 6 upgrade.

PalmSource did.

It sounded like it's technically possible on hardware that meets the minimum requirements, and a business decision left up to each licensee.

Cool, new Palms can't be far off!

razorpit @ 2/10/2004 11:32:01 AM #
Any new photos of the OS yet?

Screenshots?

NikMan @ 2/10/2004 11:53:15 AM #
Hmm, wonder when we will be able to see the screenshots from new operating system!

RE: Screenshots?
Admin @ 2/10/2004 12:12:29 PM #
the conference is JUST getting started, much more news will be coming out during the day.

-Ryan

RE: Screenshots?
sremick @ 2/10/2004 3:06:22 PM #
I have some screenshots (well, at least one, still poking around). Not sure if it's safe to post it on my server... is there a PIC-effect like there's a slashdot-effect?

RE: Screenshots?
sremick @ 2/10/2004 3:47:40 PM #
Ok, I managed to come up with 7 decent screenshots of Cobalt screens.

The 7 PNG files total about 358K. With a 3GB/mo limit on my server, I could only take about 9000 hits. So I don't dare host them myself.

However, if someone has a host where they only pay by bandwidth and not total transferred, please contact me and we can get these online somewhere.

Before you all get anxious, they're really not all that exciting.

RE: Screenshots?
Foo Fighter @ 2/10/2004 4:01:40 PM #
You can submit them to me, I'll see if I can host them. kent@pocketfactory.com

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, Digital Media Thoughts
Editor, Pocketfactory.com
RE: Screenshots?
edeab220 @ 2/10/2004 4:05:39 PM #
I'm still looking for the simulator, but I got the manual, and I disected (and I still am) some screenshots:

http://www.pocketloft.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=34524#post34524

----------
Editor-In-Chief at: www.pocketloft.com

RE: Screenshots?
sremick @ 2/10/2004 4:22:42 PM #
Mine came from the Protein books too.

RE: Screenshots?
edeab220 @ 2/10/2004 4:28:49 PM #
heh...it took me forever to find them. Has anyone found the simulator?

----------
Editor-In-Chief at: www.pocketloft.com
RE: Screenshots?
feranick @ 2/10/2004 4:44:44 PM #
The user guide can be found here:

http://tinyurl.com/2djoq

RE: Screenshots?
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 5:29:25 PM #
This Slip area is very interesting.

But I see a serious flaw still: Where in the Dock is the icon to call up the Command Bar?!

Hello, PalmSource! The current method to call up the Command Bar -- on the TT3 -- DOES NOT WORK! I've sat there with Ryan Himself and we *both* tried to call it up with a slash and most of the time that slash was interpreted as Select Text! The Command bar needs its own icon to invoke it! PLEASE! Let's not have a two step: Raise DIA, make Slash!

RE: Screenshots?
pcjabber @ 2/10/2004 5:40:29 PM #
You could email the screenshots to me, and I can see if I can host them....Unfortunately, I may not be able to host them for a long time, but since a great friend of mine owns an ISP, and I host there, he may be ok with it =)

pcjabber@ec.rr.com(NOSPAM)

--Tyler

Pen and Paper > Palm m515 > PalmOne Tungsten T3

Mikecane: TT3 commands...
Captain Hair @ 2/10/2004 5:57:58 PM #
If you have full-screen write enabled, the command bar can be called up at any time with the command stroke (diagonally up and right). Just be sure that you swipe the screen and not hold it in the same spot long enough for the Palm to recognize it as a 'tap'.

"We are Borg."
RE: Screenshots?
edeab220 @ 2/10/2004 6:27:57 PM #
If you guys look on the homepage of PIC, it looks like Ryan got some shots of the screen.

And I would like to add after reading the developer's manual that the status bar will appear on all versions of Cobalt, whether it be 160x160 or 320x480.

----------
Editor-In-Chief at: www.pocketloft.com

RE: Screenshots?
JAJN @ 2/10/2004 6:57:25 PM #
You can send the pics. I can put in my host, and monitor the traffic, to avoid problens.

e-mail: jajn1@yahoo.com.br

RE: Screenshots?
Hal2000 @ 2/10/2004 10:15:01 PM #
Wow! I seem to have the Garnet screenshot!

Zodiac2/T616
1.128 gigs under the hood.
In Fantasyland, maybe
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 11:58:04 PM #
>>>If you have full-screen write enabled, the command bar can be called up at any time with the command stroke (diagonally up and right). Just be sure that you swipe the screen and not hold it in the same spot long enough for the Palm to recognize it as a 'tap'.

Listen, Ryan and I *both* tried to get the damned thing to work and it selected text in most of our attempts. And neither one of us are PalmOS nOObs. There should be an icon in the Status bar, period. Period.

And where is the *landscape* icon, eh?

The foundation for the Palm OS laptops

RhinoSteve @ 2/10/2004 12:31:29 PM #
The stage is set. Now the Palm OS laptops can come out and bypass hard disk based computers.

* Totally solid state laptop with no moving parts (sans user access devices.)
* OS totally in Flash RAM
* Reboot time under five seconds.
* Flash card memory as removable medium (goodbye floppies for good and sun setting on CDs)
* Under $1000.
* Much more affordable apps (goodbye $350+ professional office suites)
* Very virus and worm resistant OS design.

Oh yea! Who wants that for Christmas? I'm sure someone will run a Windows emulator thread too for legacy user.

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
lobotomic @ 2/10/2004 12:56:41 PM #
The notion of the ultralight, low priced laptop sounds tremendously attractive and useful to me, but I would not bet much on it. The concept has come and gone a few times ever since the early 80s, at several stages of evolution, and it has never become popular. NEC, Radio Shack, Apple, Texas Instruments, Psion AKA Symbian and many others tried. Even Sinclair tried! And none succeeded. Maybe it's just that they lacked PalmOS 6 (oops! I meant "Cobalt") -- Yeah, and decent displays, and decent quantities of non-volatile memory.

Still, there are laptops today at $1000, and with OpenOffice, for no more than $0 you can get an office suite WAY more sofisticated than anything now available on PalmOS at any price.

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
Moosecat @ 2/10/2004 1:46:19 PM #
I see the possibility here as less about laptop replacement and more about a tablet computer that people will actually want. A "super-sized" Palm, that has a screen the size of notebook paper, is entirely solid state, and is 1/4" thick.

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
kpr @ 2/10/2004 3:36:08 PM #
I think a Palm OS laptop is a great idea!

This is very useful for someone who:

1. Does not want to spend a lot of money on a desktop or laptop computer;

2. Wants longer battery life, very quick start up times, and a rock-solid OS in ROM that you do not have to worry about messing up or getting corrupt;

3. Wants an extra computer in an other part of their house, like the kitchen, living room, TV room, garage, guest room, kids room, or even the bathroom;

4. Wants to add a computer to their mini van, SUV, or motor home;

5. Does not have a computer at all, like many elderly people who did not grow up with computers;

6. Is tired of all the problems they run into with their PC!!!;

7. Does not want to have to deal with *nix OSs; or

8. Does not want to make Bill G even more rich. :)


What would you rather teach your parents or grandparents to use:
a Palm laptop or a Microsoft Windows-based PC???

What platform do you think is easier to support and easier to use:
a Palm OS based device or a Microsoft Windows-based PC?

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
Gar @ 2/10/2004 3:51:40 PM #
and they can call it a eMate... no wait that's been done. :-) You just knew someone had to bring that up. PalmOS slate/notebook will be fun for sure.

-----------------
My wife has to sell a lot of candles (www.ccandles.com) to buy her new Palm.
RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
Token User @ 2/10/2004 5:08:05 PM #
and they can call it a eMate... no wait that's been done.

Actually, I think picking a non threatening name is good. Possibly something feminine, and maybe a little school teacher/librarianish, as women tend to be less intimidating than men when it comes to technology.

... Perhaps "Audrey" might be appropriate? 8^)

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
Token User @ 2/10/2004 5:08:05 PM #
and they can call it a eMate... no wait that's been done.

Actually, I think picking a non threatening name is good. Possibly something feminine, and maybe a little school teacher/librarianish, as women tend to be less intimidating than men when it comes to technology.

... Perhaps "Audrey" might be appropriate? 8^)

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: The foundation for the Palm OS laptops
Mausoleum @ 2/10/2004 5:51:47 PM #
Or what about "Dana"?

http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana_overview.html

Ooops... they already did it with Palm OS 3.0 (at some point, I think)... 8-)

Cobalt & MacOS X

critic @ 2/10/2004 12:49:11 PM #
I don't know why, but I'm slightly concerned that "improved compatibility with Microsoft Windows" gets two mentions, but there isn't even a nod toward MacOS X. Maybe the rumors about incompatibility are true?

----
What do you think, sirs?
RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
mrhockey @ 2/10/2004 1:52:57 PM #
I would think that palmsource would keep good support for OS X since, for the most part, mac users don't have a lot of choice for devices to use with native support (ie: not using missing sync or similar software) so I wouldn't worry too much.

-mrhockey

All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
dulinor @ 2/10/2004 3:20:50 PM #
While OS X compatibility is crtitical for me, I certainly wouldn't assume it. PalmSource hasn't updated the OS X tools much, if at all since purchasing the old Claris Organizer product. One OS X port, that isn't even really certified for 10.3.

As far as I know there's no way to sync the extra fields in a T|3 with iSync so I'm pessimistic about these new apps. If we just had robust iSync support, we'd pretty much be done. Here's hoping that PalmSource does the right thing. Having a captive audience though, makes me suspect they'll put the burden on the MarkSpace and other guys to close the gap.

I'm quite ready for a Clie UX-50 based on "Cobalt" or a Treo (I don't care what they say about smartphones for the older OS, phone apps *need* the multitasking) just hope I can make it work with the Mac. Third party solutions aren't bad, but the basic sync platform needs to be overhauled on OS X.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
dulinor @ 2/10/2004 3:31:38 PM #
I think it's safe to say that this ( http://www.macnn.com/news/23349 ) announcement means no native support. I love the Mark/Space guys, but c'mon!

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
Kesh @ 2/10/2004 3:34:09 PM #
If you read the product announcement blurbs at the end of the article, you'll note that Mark/Space has already committed to Missing Sync for Cobalt. So, I'd say desktop support will exist, it just won't be as extensive as what's on the Windows platform. Missing Sync will fill in the gap for syncing your iTunes music, media card mounting on the desktop, etc.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
Kesh @ 2/10/2004 4:00:47 PM #
Ouch, I take it back! According to the marketing whitepaper on Mark/Space's site:

"The Macintosh Palm Desktop and Hotsync Manager software appear to be at the end of their product lives with PalmSource not planning to offer an updated Mac solution for PalmOS Cobalt."

So, it looks like Missing Sync is taking over *entirely* for PalmOS syncing on the Mac.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
mrhockey @ 2/10/2004 5:39:26 PM #
Yep, I just read that too. Looks like I was wrong.

-mrhockey

All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
pcjabber @ 2/10/2004 5:48:13 PM #
However, its very possible PalmOne/other product vendors will include a version of Missing Sync in-the-box. =)

--Tyler

Pen and Paper > Palm m515 > PalmOne Tungsten T3

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
jcmorganstein @ 2/10/2004 5:49:00 PM #
Wow. That's definitely disappointing. Though, MarkSpace makes some great software for syncing and has been reliable for me with both Palm and SONY branded devices. Interesting that PalmSource is dumping OSX, particularly given all the energy that Apple has put into desktop software integration with PalmOS handhelds. Other than the obvious and basic thought that it all boils down to dollars and cents, this move by PalmSource is a bit of a letdown.

-jcm
RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
Wollombi @ 2/10/2004 7:26:53 PM #
Perhaps iSync, iLife, et all are just too good that the Palm Desktop just can't compete? So why would they waste development $$$ on writing software that nobody will use? Bundling Missing Sync in the box and making it talk to the iLife suite would ultimately be a much better idea.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Cobalt & MacOS X
asiayeah @ 2/10/2004 11:42:34 PM #
Many Mac users prefer Palm to PocketPC, because they can sync with their Macs better.

Now, without synchronization capability with Mac OS X, Palm OS clearly has lost one advantage of the Platform.

It's sad for both PalmSource and Apple.

I wonder if Apple would give some pressures on Palm. Or should the Apple users protest? ;-)

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

When?

Moosecat @ 2/10/2004 1:50:01 PM #
What does it mean to "introduce" these new OS's? Any word on when they will be installed on new hardware? Or available for use on existing hardware?

RE: When?
sremick @ 2/10/2004 2:19:59 PM #
The OS was released to hardware manufacturers back in December. This "introduction" I believe is geared more for software developers to get them oriented. How soon it appears in a handheld is up to the hardware manufacturers (PalmOne, Sony, etc), not PalmSource.



Contradiction

Appleman @ 2/10/2004 2:32:20 PM #
I don't get it. It is stated that Garnet is for "handhelds and smartphones" and Cobalt is for "communications, enterprise, education and entertainment markets". However, a number of the features in Cobalt are better tailored for smartphones.

Take the description of the multitasking, multithreaded feature:

"For example, a user can listen to MP3 files, book a calendar appointment and take an incoming phone call."

Or the Pluggable Communications:

"....such as downloading WiFi delivered data while receiving a phone call."

Cobalt should be for smartphones.

RE: Contradiction
Verteron @ 2/10/2004 3:14:13 PM #
I don't think anything would stop a licensee creating a super-smartphone with Cobalt. Perhaps the Treo 1000 or something similar...

Handspring Visor Neo --> Sony CLIE PEG-T665C --> palmOne Tungsten T2
RE: Contradiction
Wollombi @ 2/10/2004 7:29:27 PM #
Who the hell is going to take a phone call while *simultaneously* listening to MP3's?

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Contradiction
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 5:14:06 PM #
That would most likely be Larry Slotnick, who sees no need for a filesystem -- hence his MP3s are in the same folder as his ringtones!

Half way

ComputerBob @ 2/10/2004 3:29:38 PM #
Great! we got the software to run the hardware. Wait a second...What hardware!? People keep saying that this is great or not enough ram; but you have to remember, first they have to find a way to put that stuff into a handheld....

Well, I'm onboard, because...

bookrats @ 2/10/2004 5:03:06 PM #
...C.E. Stuart Dewar and Datebk5 are apparently onboard. If Datebk will be designed to run on Cobalt, then I'm a happy Cobalt camper.


----

"I'm warning you ... if you kill me, they'll just send 008!"

Jeff Meyer

Cursive HWR for PalmOS

mikecane @ 2/10/2004 5:46:42 PM #
"Pen&Internet unveils first cursive handwriting recognition for Palm Powered devices"

http://tinyurl.com/2qsuu

Finally - decent file transfer built in!!!

rsc1000 @ 2/10/2004 6:07:53 PM #
As a developer, I am liking what i hear so far - they've done everything they hinted at. The true proof will come once developers get there hand on it and have a chance to play - we'll see how many bugs or 'gotch yas' are in Cobolt (any palm developers who dealt with their old serial code breaking in OS 5 knows what im talking about. ugh!).

As a user however, i'm happy by this little overlooked gem from todays press release:

"Palm OS Cobalt is designed to allow users to transfer PC files directly to Palm Powered devices by dragging them onto an icon on the PC desktop, making it even easier for reading and editing."

...finally - no more silly work arounds (or third party apps or readers) to move non-palm files to our handheld cards. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they've incorporated the standard view of the palm card media as a 'removable drive' under windows explorer. Too bad - though oems can (and some do) implement this themselves. Should be a standard part of the palmsource software however. My question is: will this improved file transfer actually improve speed of transfer (Card Export does - so there are no excuses!) ?


It's raining on the TH parade

Hal2000 @ 2/10/2004 8:24:58 PM #
Get your umbrella.

Zodiac2/T616
1.128 gigs under the hood.
RE: It's raining on the TH parade
mikecane @ 2/10/2004 11:54:00 PM #
Raining?! I have no plans to pass up the TH55.

I see nothing here to buy yet.

And have you yet noticed that the new PalmSource "standard" Status Bar *lacks* a LANDSCAPE icon?

Ho, ho, ho -- no landscape in TH55 because there's no *PalmSource* code for it! Sony acts like a good PalmOS citizen and gets punished for it.

RE: It's raining on the TH parade
rsc1000 @ 2/11/2004 3:56:55 AM #
From a sept 23 article from cnet (new.com), an interview with Larry Slotnick, chief product officer at PalmSource, that states:

"Slotnick said many developers wanted more freedom to create devices with rotating screens, allowing both landscape and portrait views. PalmSource will support this feature in the Palm OS 6 API (application programming interface), making it standard across all OS 6 devices, Slotnick said"



RE: It's raining on the TH parade
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 2:41:23 PM #
Where's the icon?!

RE: It's a ticker tape parade for the TH-55
;-) @ 2/12/2004 3:38:57 AM #
Bend over in front of the mirror and you'll see the icon you need so desperately.


It's just too big.

Is M$ quiet?

Konstantin @ 2/10/2004 9:40:34 PM #
I wonder when Billy and Steev0 will begin with FUD techniques.


Filesystem

Thunderball @ 2/11/2004 2:59:09 AM #
Damnit, where is the filesystem info? BeOS had the best, and most innovative filesystem in the world (which Microsoft is now trying to copy, of course).

If I have to restrict all my files on SD cards to one folder, I'll bloody switch to PocketPC!

RE: Filesystem
Thunderball @ 2/11/2004 3:26:48 AM #
****, I'm having to go to different sites for good info.

"PalmSource's Mr. Slotnick said today this is also on his company's agenda for a future version of Cobalt. While he would't say any more, he did say that the developers don't necessarily think that the familiar paradigm of files in folders is appropriate for handhelds."

Apparently, Mr. Slotnick haven't even looked at how the BeOS filesystem worked. Either that, or he doesn't use SD cards.

Big sigh...

RE: Filesystem
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 2:43:23 PM #
"PalmSource representatives have said in the past that Cobalt will offer support for VGA and switching between portrait and landscape modes, but no mention of this has been made so far at the PalmSource conference. Instead, the only resolutions mentioned have been 320 by320 pixels and 320 by 480 pixels."

http://brighthand.com/article/PS04_PalmSource_Reveals_More_Details_on_Cobalt

RE: Filesystem
rsc1000 @ 2/11/2004 3:20:37 PM #
>>Instead, the only resolutions mentioned have been 320 by320 pixels and 320 by 480 pixels.

Apparently the guys at brighthand can't read. From the press release (and in this PIC article):

"new graphics system is designed to support screen sizes up to 32,000 by 32,000 pixels!"

I remember reading in several different places that the T3 uses the cobolt hires+ and landscape code/api (actually the hires+ thing is supported as part os 5). Perhaps the lack of a rotation icon you mentioned above is a matter of OEM discretion - so its not necesarily in every Cobolt device? Also a possibility: rotation is linked to the Sahara GUI enhancments not part of the first version of Cobolt - but i can't see it as being tied to this.

RE: Landscape
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 5:10:28 PM #
>>>Perhaps the lack of a rotation icon you mentioned above is a matter of OEM discretion - so its not necesarily in every Cobolt device?

I wondered about BH not mentioning the 32Kx32K (no landscape!) screen size...

I hope it's not a matter of discretion. What happened to Cobalt unifying the APIs? And what sense would it make to leave it out of a rectangular-screened device?

RE: Filesystem
rsc1000 @ 2/11/2004 6:20:02 PM #
>>I hope it's not a matter of discretion. What happened to Cobalt unifying the APIs? And what sense would it make to leave it out of a rectangular-screened device?

If this is the case, then I know what you mean. But - OEMs can still make square screened devices, where they would not need (well they may *feel* that users dont need) screen rotation. I would hope all rectangular screened devices would use this. It does represent a unification of the API. There wont be 500 APIs for out there for doing this - just one that will either be there or not.

BTW - OS 5.3 standardizes 'extended screens' (non-square aspect ratio) - and thats whats used in the T3. T3 users get the benefit of forward compatiblity with future version of Cobalt and Garnet as far as this is concerned. Not so for tapwave and i assume current hires+ offerings from Sony (dont know about the TH55).

RE: Filesystem
mikecane @ 2/12/2004 12:56:24 AM #
>>>BTW - OS 5.3 standardizes 'extended screens' (non-square aspect ratio) - and thats whats used in the T3. T3 users get the benefit of forward compatiblity with future version of Cobalt and Garnet as far as this is concerned. Not so for tapwave and i assume current hires+ offerings from Sony (dont know about the TH55).

Grrr... and I guess that sort of thing can't be "fixed" on the Zod and TH55 with just a d/led patch? (Then again... why not? Didn't palmOne offer a patch for early T3 owners to make the DIA work properly with 3rd-party programs?)

Why Palm hasn't shipped a file manager with its PDAs
;-) @ 2/14/2004 1:10:01 AM #
Damnit, where is the filesystem info? BeOS had the best, and most innovative filesystem in the world (which Microsoft is now trying to copy, of course).

If I have to restrict all my files on SD cards to one folder, I'll bloody switch to PocketPC!

Fear of more $$$ spent on support calls to India.

How hard would it have been to licence McFile, FileMan, TealMover, or any of a dozen other similar apps? (And also, I would hope that Palm's own code monkeys are capable of writing their own reliable file manager. It's not like these utilities are Rocket Surgery. Palm's (wise) decision is based on minimizing LSC (Lifetime Support Costs).

I dare you to switch to PPC. You won't. Chickenshi



It's just too big.

RE: Filesystem
mikecane @ 2/14/2004 12:06:29 PM #
Why don't you turn on your car's engine and put your mouth over the exhaust pipe? People here will cheer.

RE: Filesystems + psychotrophic medications
;-) @ 2/14/2004 9:05:12 PM #
Why don't you turn on your car's engine and put your mouth over the exhaust pipe? People here will cheer.

You first, Mike. People here will not only cheer but also do "The Wave".


By the way, Dr. Goldstein says you need to get your lithium level checked this week. And the Haldol prescription was called into you pharmacy yesterday. Remember, Mike: it's just a "chemical imbalance". Stay safe.


It's just too big.

RE: Filesystem
bcombee @ 2/14/2004 11:48:06 PM #
PalmSource mentioned that the rotation API adopted as part of Cobalt is the one used on the TapWave Zodiac. It may not be part of Cobalt 6.0, but it should be used on any Cobalt device that ships with a rotation feature.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List

mikecane @ 2/11/2004 2:45:27 PM #
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=2899

-- still not there...

>>gritting teeth<<

RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
rsc1000 @ 2/11/2004 3:29:57 PM #
its too early to tell. at least 4 of your 10 requested items are there for sure, the rest we dont know (though a couple appear to certainly not be there). Some aren't obvious - for example, you wanted 'Dual window support' - that should be easily accomplished now with multitasking, no?



RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
mikecane @ 2/11/2004 5:06:01 PM #
I don't know what I was thinking that I left out landscape...

>>>you wanted 'Dual window support' - that should be easily accomplished now with multitasking, no?

We'll see. It can be done -- split screen -- on PPC with a util called Seymour.

I *can* do it with my present OS4ed S320, thanks to X-Master and the PopUp series (Clock, Notes). I'll miss this greatly on the TH55...

There is *no* filesystem. That's for certain.

At least *Sony* sees the need for (an albeit very limited) one and licensed McFile (aka CLIE Files).

RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
bcombee @ 2/14/2004 11:12:00 PM #
> 1) A real file system.

PalmSource continued their stand that filesystems are outdated and not suitable for handheld devices. I tend to agree; I'd rather let my apps organize data in an effective way than have to dig into hierarchies to find things.

> 2) More Categories.

Schema databases and the new PIMs support up to 255 categories, and a record can be a member of mulitple categories.

> 3) Top/Bottom Page Command in Memo Pad.

No commands for this, but Cobalt's Memo Pad does use the scroll bar, allowing quick navigation to any spot in the memo.

> 4) Native color font support.

The basic field control hasn't been altered in Cobalt, so apps that use it can still only assign one font per field.

> 5) Typefaces and attributes.

Cobalt supports TrueType fonts that can be drawn at any size, color, orientation, and with anti-aliasing. It is fairly easy for programs to use these in drawing; it's not as easy to use them in standard controls.

> 6) A long-file standard.

There's nothing in OS 6. This really is an application issue, and there are a bunch of apps that handle large files pretty well.

7) Command Bar customization.

Nothing really here, but sliplets and PINlets can add a lot of custom functionality.

8) Selectable alarms. We should be able to assign different alarms to different items in Date Book. Right now an alarm for a doctor's appointment is indistinguishable from a reminder to buy cat food! This must change.

> 9) Dual window support.

Cobalt apps that have a Sliplet mode can be opened over other apps, but the paradigm of having one main application at anytime is still there.

> 10) Soft Graffiti.

It's there and part of the core OS.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
mikecane @ 2/16/2004 1:15:41 AM #
>>>PalmSource continued their stand that filesystems are outdated and not suitable for handheld devices. I tend to agree; I'd rather let my apps organize data in an effective way than have to dig into hierarchies to find things.

Then they are bunch of absolute fekkin MORONS. Nagel comes out and fantasizes about PalmOS on a *notebook* -- with NO filesystem?!

The *IPOD* has a filesystem. If it ran PalmOS, buyers would be up the creek with one l-o-n-g list of *all* MP3s.

There is NO excuse for keeping out a filesystem except to reconfirm that they don't use their own damned product to the fullest.

> 3) Top/Bottom Page Command in Memo Pad.
>>>No commands for this, but Cobalt's Memo Pad does use the scroll bar, allowing quick navigation to any spot in the memo.

More confimration that they DON'T use their own damned product to the fullest. For Christ's sake!

> 4) Native color font support.
>>>The basic field control hasn't been altered in Cobalt, so apps that use it can still only assign one font per field.

Unbelievable. No, given the continued lack of filesystem: believable!

> 5) Typefaces and attributes.
>>>Cobalt supports TrueType fonts that can be drawn at any size, color, orientation, and with anti-aliasing. It is fairly easy for programs to use these in drawing; it's not as easy to use them in standard controls.

Did they give any details of how these are installed?

> 6) A long-file standard.
>>>There's nothing in OS 6. This really is an application issue, and there are a bunch of apps that handle large files pretty well.

So each dev has to reinvent the wheel for their own app. Brilliant. Not.

>7) Command Bar customization.
>>>Nothing really here, but sliplets and PINlets can add a lot of custom functionality.

I have no idea what a PINlet is.

>8) Selectable alarms. We should be able to assign different alarms to different items in Date Book. Right now an alarm for a doctor's appointment is indistinguishable from a reminder to buy cat food! This must change.

I guess nothing here?

> 9) Dual window support.
>>>Cobalt apps that have a Sliplet mode can be opened over other apps, but the paradigm of having one main application at anytime is still there.

Thank God for DAs.

> 10) Soft Graffiti.
>>>It's there and part of the core OS.

Thank God for Sony. (OK, OK, HandEra too!)

Given what OS 6 offers -- ha! -- I'll wait for 6.5 -- or 7.0. If they're still in business that long.

How long do they think MS will keep dropping the PPC ball?

RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
abosco @ 2/16/2004 1:29:02 AM #
This wasn't just a regular ball PalmSource seems to have dropped. It appears to be a medicine ball. And right on their toes!!

After being long acclaimed to have an efficient way to multitask, a file system, and a UI makeover, OS 6 has proven to have NONE of these qualities. Count them - none. A Slip window, no matter how much PalmSource may tell you, does not resemble multitasking. I can only imagine the look on many enthusiasts' faces as they make their first taps on an OS 6 Palm, waiting to be blown away by a stellar OS and getting something that looks like... OS 5.5.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + T616

RE: PalmOS Cobalt 6.x: Wish List
mikecane @ 2/16/2004 2:01:25 AM #
And what's worse: NO ability to upgrade from 6.0 to 6.x once you've plunked down that $$$ on a new still-coming OS 6.0 device (not that I expect PalmSource to still be around as an independent company -- and if Sony doesn't buy them, they'll be gone in 2005.).

PalmOS Packrats

mikecane @ 2/14/2004 1:02:45 PM #
"Another area that's interesting is the information archive device. There are these information hounds that are packrats and that carry a lot of information around with them."

-- guess what, Cook & Slotnick?! We packrats need a fekkin FILESYSTEM for that!! Bloody iPOD has a filesystem! Get it yet?!

http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3048,a=119076,00.asp

RE: PalmOS Packrats
hotpaw4 @ 2/14/2004 9:15:11 PM #
PalmOS handhelds have been shipping with VFS file systems for years. Just plug in a memory card. Under OS 4.x, you can even run a VFS RAMDisk without a card. For file management, FileZ is currently freeware.
Time for Sony to buy PalmSource!
mikecane @ 2/16/2004 1:30:18 AM #
Give me a break. As if I don't now about VFS.

Sony, seeing what a bunch of self-absorbed wankers are in charge of PalmOS (moreso now!), went and licensed McFile to incorporate into the CLIE. At least *they* understand the need for *some* sort of filesystem BUILT-IN.

FileZ. How far would MS-DOS have gone if people had to get the filesystem separately?

It's time for Sony to buy PalmSource. And to kick out Nagel and Slotnick!

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