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Comments on: Inventory Leak Shows New Palm Product Codes?

pre code If there's one thing we can gather from the recent spate of leaks, it's that the folks who come up with inventory codes at Palm are not big on dramatics. Rather than go for cool code names, like "Nighthawk" or "Lentilbreath", their preference is for decidedly more staid letter/number combinations like P100, designator of the original Palm Pre.

This habit does not look like being kicked anytime soon: an anonymous tipster has sent those crazy homebrewin' monkeys at PreCentral.net a photo of Sprint's inventory management system which reveals two previously unknown Palm devices showing up as: PALM 120 and C40. If we operate on the same assumption as last week's Verizon leak, we can hazard a guess that the PALM 120 could likely be some sort of variation of the rumored Palm Eos. But C40? That's new. New and interesting. We'll be keeping our eyes peeled.

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Mini-trablet?

mikecane @ 8/31/2009 9:12:08 AM # Q
Mini mini mini mini tablet?

Please, SOMETHING to drive another stake in the heart of Nokia.

RE: Mini-trablet?
DarthRepublican @ 8/31/2009 9:19:17 AM # Q
Losing hope of seeing an Apple tablet?
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Mini-trablet?
LiveFaith @ 8/31/2009 9:40:37 AM # Q
C40, probably more like. C=Case But, who knows, maybe it's C = Computer as in netbook or C = Centro?
Pat Horne
RE: Mini-trablet?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/31/2009 10:03:13 AM # Q
I thought Centro.

RE: Mini-trablet?
LiveFaith @ 8/31/2009 5:54:21 PM # Q
Or Christmas!
Pat Horne
RE: Mini-trablet?
twrock @ 8/31/2009 9:12:40 PM # Q
Or "chartreuse"!

"My Pre's gonna stand out from the crowd, by golly."

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Mini-trablet?
vetdoctor @ 9/1/2009 4:40:01 AM # M Q
Mini-trablet? Tiny-mabret? Rini-babtret?
RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 5:11:20 AM # Q

i think i might get a Dell Mini 10. thoughts?


RE: Mini-trablet?
freakout @ 9/1/2009 6:58:53 AM # Q
Go for it. They're very nice little units. One of the many options on the list for replacing my Eee.

I have one of those rental agreements for my LCD TV, where you pay x amount per month rather than buy outright. Coming up on the end of the term and the company is getting desperate to extend. Keeps sending me letters offering me cool gadgets... the Mini is enticing.

RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 7:08:58 AM # Q

i'm thinking -

1. Dell Mini 10 or equivalent
2. wait for Windows 7 pre-installed - on/after October 22, 2009
3. WIFI "N"
4. Camera - if available
5. Get Max RAM Available
6. MS Office (Word and Excel)
7. Extra Power Card
8. Standard Battery is fine - i don't want the extra bulk/weight/lip.
9. Good video chip (for smooth Youtube etc.)
10. Bluetooth Module
11. Intel Atom?
12. Hi-Res/HD Display since 10" screen?
13. Case?

anything i'm missing?

RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 7:09:40 AM # Q

7. Extra Power CORD
RE: Mini-trablet?
palmato @ 9/1/2009 8:30:18 AM # Q
Beware of the windows starter edition. Its limitations are still unclear, but might have quite an impact on the functionality of the device. Home premium editions will cost around 50$ more than current devices. If you plan to use it in a corporate environment, the business version is of course mandatory.

If you really care about video performance. it might be worthwhile to wait for nvidia ION chipset based devices. However right now it's still unclear whether that platform will have a real impact.

As far as having a higher resolution screen, I would be a little wary about battery life. Larger screen usually means higher battery drain. At that point 11" models might be a better alternative.

Warning for those who want to upgrade the OS to Linux: beware of the Intel GMA500 graphic chipset. This is really a third party product that Intel has rebranded. Unlike other chipsets, no official Linux driver exist and alternative implementations are quite limited. For the time being it's better to stick with the older GMA850 (mini 10v, for example) and avoid machines that use the G500 (like the mini 10).

--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 8:36:32 AM # Q

i've been hearing complaints about the Dell Mini 10 Touchpad. the built-in buttons are PIA.

any truth in this?

i guess i'll have to go test one. Best Buy???

RE: Mini-trablet?
hkklife @ 9/1/2009 11:44:06 AM # Q
Gekko;

Check your email.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 12:01:54 PM # Q

i just checked one the Dell Mini 10 at Best Buy. 10" is just too small of a screen to browse comfortably with. maybe i could/would get used to it but i'm not so sure. the problem is not the font size - the problem is that you only get like 1/3 or less of a web page. you have to constantly keep scrolling!!! i think the floor for acceptable widescreens is 13-14" or greater. 10" is just too damn small. maybe because i'm coming from a 17" but still 10" cuts off too much web page IMO!

also - the Mini Touchpad does not have real click buttons - they are integrated and difficult to use IMO.

lastly - for shiits and giggles i checked out the basic Inspiron. looks cheap! CHEAP PLASTIC BLACK casing makes this thing look really CHEAP (like Palm Pre toy black plastic)! if i was to get a Dell Notebook - it would have to be a Dell Studio. the Inspiron has become the ECONOMY model and very very cheap looking.


RE: Mini-trablet?
twrock @ 9/2/2009 6:22:50 AM # Q
If I recall correctly, there is another irritation with the Mini 10. SD cards do not insert all the way into the slot. So you can't just put one in a leave it (without the risk of breaking it off).

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Mini-trablet?
Gekko @ 9/2/2009 6:33:24 AM # Q

per HKK - it looks like the Dell Studio 14z is the best bet for me.
RE: Mini-trablet?
twrock @ 9/3/2009 12:17:47 AM # Q
I haven't looked at Dell's line lately, but after a few clicks, I gotta say that the Inspiron 13 is quite the machine for under $500. Slot loading optical drive included is a plus in my book. YMMV.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
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Predictions

hkklife @ 8/31/2009 11:28:55 AM # Q
P100=Original Sprint Pre (confirmed)

P101=Verizon Pre. I predict the exact same hardware specs but with a noticably different OS/ROM image that it warrants a new model number (perhaps with PTT or tethering support or Verizon's new app store loaded by default?)

Palm 120= Sprint's version of the Eos. Same FF & specs as rumored earlier.

Palm 121= Verizon's version of the Eos.

I forsee 3 possibilities here for the C40:

#1 C40= Ultra low-cost Sprint-exclusive handset.

#2 Clamshell version of the Eos

#3 The C40 IS the Eos and the P120 is instead a Pre refresh

I'll go on a limb and predict #1. Sprint and Palm are teaming up for a "cheap smartphone with dumbphone pricing + reduced-cost unlimited plan" for the holiday season. Basically, Sprint's version of all of these enhanced dumbphones that are really proliferating nowadays (see Verizon's new data plans starting in Sept with the Samsung Rogue etc).

I think this is going to be a even more downdized version of the CDMA EOS. It'll still have 4GB internal flash memory but whatever the regular EOS brings to the table, this one will reduce it even more (no GPS or wi-fi, lower-resolution camera, slower CPU, possibly lower-resolution or smaller screen, limited feature OS?)

Ruling out the above theory #1 (a bit of a reach, I know), I wouldn't even be surprised to see Palm distinguish between the GSM & CDMA versions of the EOS. Perhaps keep the "Centro" moniker alive for CDMA markets but call the GSM version something new (EOS etc)?
In that case, then we might be seeing a Pre refresh or two followed by the CDMA Eos as expected.

In all fairness, the Centro debuted on CDMA, had its greatest sales success on domestic CDMA carriers, was only 3G-capable in CDMA form, and only received a hardware refresh on one CDMA carrier. It's also had essentially a 2-year shelf life in some form or another in CDMA form, so it's no surprise that the "Centro" branding would carry more cachet for VZW or Sprint than overseas on a GSM carrier or in unlocked form.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

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Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?

Gekko @ 9/1/2009 2:07:54 PM # Q

# Story Highlights
# Analyst: Apple's exclusive deal with AT&T to offer the iPhone may end within the year
# Opening up the iPhone to other carriers in the U.S. could boost Apple but hurt AT&T
# In several other countries, Apple has struck recent deals with multiple carriers
# Verizon is rumored to be talking to Apple about getting the iPhone on its network

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/09/01/iphone.wireless.carriers/index.html


RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/1/2009 5:52:29 PM # Q
This article wins the Captain Obvious 2009 award. Honestly, I wonder if editors at publications around the US are just reprinting this story every month, hoping to pre-empt the inevitable announcement.

Of course the iPhone is going to eventually leave AT&T. Apple want world domination just like any other company and tying yourself to one carrier forever simply won't get you there. The Pre and Android phones are eventually going to force them to break up, as they spread to every carrier and snag the customers that might have been Apple's.

RE: Is Freak losing his grip on reality?
jca666us @ 9/1/2009 6:06:22 PM # Q
>The Pre and Android phones are eventually going to force them to break up,
>as they spread to every carrier and snag the customers that might have been
>Apple's.

So if the Pre and iphone were on the same carrier, a consumer would choose the iphone?


RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/1/2009 6:10:56 PM # M Q
It's similar with financial publications. They publish contrasting opinion pieces every few days. The reason is they just want words out there so that months later, they can say, "See! We told you Costco was a buy!"

Apple hired CDMA engineers last year. They've got a deal in the works, that's for sure. AT&T is shooting itself in the foot with this MMS and tethering tomfoolery. It does nothing to promote their image.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/1/2009 6:32:57 PM # Q
freakout wrote:
Of course the iPhone is going to eventually leave AT&T. [...] The Pre and Android phones are eventually going to force them to break up, as they spread to every carrier and snag the customers that might have been Apple's.

But will Apple make more money by leaving AT&T than they are making by staying with AT&T? That's is the real issue. Apple's is much more profitable in the mobile phone business than other companies exactly because they have good exclusivity deals, and profits count more than market share.

So no, it's not obvious that Apple will leave AT&T. They would have to get equally good deals where ever else they go.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/1/2009 6:45:57 PM # Q
>But will Apple make more money by leaving AT&T than they are making by staying with AT&T? That's is the real issue. Apple's is much more profitable in the mobile phone business than other companies exactly because they have good exclusivity deals, and profits count more than market share.

i think Apple is willing to give up short-term profits in exchange for world domination. market share = mindshare = world domination.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/1/2009 10:33:19 PM # Q
nastebu: Maybe my view is coloured by the situation here in Oz. iPhone is on the big three carriers (Telstra, Optus, Vodafone), no exclusivity. It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd want to stay with AT&T forever.

Besides which, I thought they'd stopped the contract profit-sharing deal with AT&T in exchange for a bigger subsidy on the handsets? ( http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/apples-lucrative-iphone-revenue-sharing-goes-away-replaced-wit/ ) So there's really no advantage to remaining exclusive any more.
Tim
Sometime PIC blogger
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro
I apologise for any and all emoticons in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
jca666us @ 9/2/2009 3:37:07 AM # Q
@freakout

>It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd want to stay with AT&T forever.

Nostradumbass - everyone and their mother has known from day 1 that AT&T's exclusivity was only for a limited time.

Talk about stating the obvious!

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/2/2009 4:14:47 AM # Q
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/2/2009 5:24:49 AM # Q
Gekko, not really. Apple has been lukewarm to cold with their interest in the lower end of the computer market. That reluctance to come down in price is all about not trading market share for profits. The lowest priced laptop Apple sells is still about $1,000. Clearly, they're unwilling to give up profits to run up numbers of units passed through.

Apple seem to have decided they don't want to dilute their brand identity by selling cheaper computers, and honestly, the current recession has proved this a smart strategy. Their sales have scarcely slipped, even though they've mostly maintained their prices.

Freak, yes, they gave up the sharing of monthly fees. I'd think that they couldn't get the same very high subsidies if the phone wasn't exclusive though, and they've also forced AT&T into the position of really just a service provider, a level of control other American carriers have been very reluctant to give up. Verizon, for example, seems to brand every thing that goes out over their network. I'm trying to imagine red wall paper and a big swooshy v on my iphone with no success.

At some point, sure, the iPhone won't be exclusive to AT&T in the US. But there's not guarantee that day is soon. Not with the kind of money Apple is making with the current setup.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
jca666us @ 9/2/2009 6:05:04 AM # M Q
nostradumbass - if you post on a public forum - be prepared to explain yourself.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/2/2009 6:14:48 AM # Q

we are not talking about laptops here - we are talking about $199 iphones and 99 cent apps!


RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/2/2009 6:37:17 AM # Q
Hmmm... that's a good point about the app store. The more users the more money they make on that. But officially Apple runs the App store at a break-even rate, so in theory they're not to worried about maxing out numbers of sales.

And sure, we're not talking about laptops. But my point was Apple might not necessarily see a need to get the biggest audience possible as quickly as possible. They launched the iphone exclusive to a carrier because they figured they would make the most money like that. As long as they still think they'll make the most money with exclusive deals, they'll stick to that model, right?

Which doesn't mean they won't dump AT&T tomorrow. It just means they don't *have* to dump AT&T and it wouldn't be shocking if they stayed exclusive.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/2/2009 7:12:58 AM # M Q
But officially Apple runs the App store at a break-even rate, so in theory they're not to worried about maxing out numbers of sales.

I think you are mistakenly associating the App Store with the original business model of the iTunes music store. But if you're serious, then that's the dumbest comment I've ever seen posted on this site.

Apple gets a cut of 30% of all app sales. They need to pay the reviewers and the people who run the catalog, as well as the hardware and bandwidth to sell all of those apps to millions of people. But this is no doubt a billion dollar business, and Apple literally just supplies a storefront and gets rich off of other developers' work.

What you're thinking of was the original iTunes music store model. They sold songs on iTunes, and after factoring in all expenses and licensing fees, they broke even. But this was advantageous because it sold more iPods. However, cost reductions and price increases have left Apple with profit margins north of 30% on each purchase, by some analysts' estimates.

The company is a flat out money-making machine. They profit from both the hardware AND the software, and they have the most highly-regarded and trusted brand in all of retail. Strictly from a business standpoint, they're the perfect company. They found a way to profit handsomely from everyone else's work.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/2/2009 8:48:37 AM # Q
nastebu:
As long as they still think they'll make the most money with exclusive deals, they'll stick to that model, right?

But that's the thing - I can't see where the money is for them. The top-of-the-line iPhone goes for $199, which isn't any cheaper than any of their major competitors. You've got the Pre @ $199 (w/ rebate), the MyTouch @ $199 etc etc. I doubt they'd have much trouble getting a similar deal off Verizon or Sprint, who would undoubtedly be keen to have such a popular device.

And from Apple's POV, the CDMA networks would represent a massive pool of potential new customers to tap. From a business perspective it seems simply foolish to ignore them.

The point about Verizon wanting greater control is a valid one, but you'd think that after seeing what a success a largely unblemished iPhone has been for AT&T, they'd be willing to cede a little power.

Troll-bot:

if you post on a public forum - be prepared to explain yourself.

To you? Might as well explain myself to my microwave. It'd probably be more enlightening.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
hkklife @ 9/2/2009 10:35:24 AM # Q
I personally would have expected Verizon to try and wrangle the iPod away from AT&T just in time to make a splash with its LTE network roll-out next year or in '11.

Remember, Verizon HAD their chance to get the iPod the first go-around. They're not likely to make that same mistake twice. They also likely could've had the Pre, the 2nd hottest device currently on the market, but that's another subject for another time...

Apple clearly distinguishes between their mass-market CE products and their PCs and prices them accordingly. The iPhone, iPods, most iPod apps, and the more pedestrian products such as the AppleTV are fairly reasonably priced in comparison to the competition. But Mac desktops & notebooks still command a price premim no doubt due to their brand cachet, build quality etc.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/2/2009 5:11:12 PM # M Q
It's a popular opinion of the rumor mill that the iPhone will be on the Verizon network when LTE comes out.

In response to this, I ask: what the **** is the point?

People want it on Verizon for the service. They're not going to have that huge, ubiquitous network with a new 4G roll out. Therefore, if Apple were planning to expand to Verizon, it would be on CDMA. This is further established by the fact that they hired CDMA engineers last year.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/2/2009 7:00:38 PM # Q

bosco - maybe time for you to pack up the civic and move to CA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onl8wmVwLW4

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/2/2009 7:42:15 PM # Q
one thing to note about those CDMA engineers - UMTS/HSDPA are (confusingly) based on W-CDMA tech (even though they are built atop the old GSM/EDGE networks), so it is possible those hirings weren't for Verizon.

still, I'd assume they were.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
question fear @ 9/3/2009 6:49:00 AM # Q
Also, even with LTE Verizon phones are going to have a CDMA fallback; they can't rely on the nascent LTE network 100% of the time. So an LTE iPhone on Verizon would still need to support VZW's CDMA for times where LTE wasn't available.

It would be like AT&T releasing a 3G phone, and not providing an EDGE fallback.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
hkklife @ 9/3/2009 10:41:22 AM # Q
Of course, but a VZW-branded iPhone would make for a strong selling point to get people to reup contracts and/or move to Verizon.

Even with a fledgling LTE network, having Verizon's mighty EVDO footprint to fall back on is much more attractive to those "oops, there goes my AT&T 3G coverage" followed by "oops, there goes my AT&T coverage entirely" scenarios currently facing iPod users.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
question fear @ 9/3/2009 10:51:02 AM # Q
Oh absolutely. And Verizon has had the luxury of sitting back and watching AT&T fall on their face w.r.t. network strength and stability. They have time to strengthen their network BEFORE a deluge of iPhone users hits it, and if they're smart they will be set for it nicely.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
jca666us @ 9/3/2009 6:25:42 PM # Q
>But that's the thing - I can't see where the money is for them.

Apple isn't Palm - they know how to make money.

>The top-of-the-line iPhone goes for $199, which isn't any cheaper than any
>of their major competitors.

No, get your facts straight - the top-of-the-line iphone cost $299 (32 gig) - next in line is $199 (16 gig).

Also, both phone are subsidized - so they make a decent profits for apple.

They're not any cheaper than their competitors, but they have a very compelling feature-set - along with the app store.

>You've got the Pre @ $199 (w/ rebate), the MyTouch @ $199 etc etc.

That's a lineup comprised of 3rd rate iphone wannabes.

A Pre at $199 with 8 gig. is a doorstop.

MyTouch, while better than the first gen devices, is still a bit of a clunker.

Verizon COO who passed on the CDMA iPhone to retire
hkklife @ 9/3/2009 10:01:28 PM # Q
Perfect timing for this announcement, given the chatter here on PIC over the past few days:


http://www.businessinsider.com/verizon-coo-denny-strigl-to-retire-2009-9
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/4/2009 1:35:29 AM # Q
I never understand why people compare the "list" price for these phones as if that is meaningful. The price of the phone to the consumer is the minimum total cost of ownership, the initial phone cost plus the cost of the contract. But how much of that money ends up going to the phone manufacturer is an unknown (unless the carrier or phone manufacturer cares to tell us the details of their contract).

My current phone "cost" me $80 with the particular contract I agreed to. I don't know how much of the money ChungHwa Telecom got from me ended up at Nokia, but I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't $80.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/4/2009 3:54:56 AM # Q
When you are in a store and the sales droid says "$300" to walk out the door that's what you and your credit card hear.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/4/2009 7:57:59 AM # Q
abosco wrote:
I think you are mistakenly associating the App Store with the original business model of the iTunes music store. But if you're serious, then that's the dumbest comment I've ever seen posted on this site.

wait, *I* get the award for dumbest comment on PIC??? There's a lot of competition in that category.

Maybe I'm wrong, but a very quick google shows I'm not alone:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/168446/apples_iphone_and_ipod_monopolies_must_go.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/164922/big_profits_from_app_store_maybe_not_for_apple.html?tk=rel_news


The company is a flat out money-making machine. They profit from both the hardware AND the software, and they have the most highly-regarded and trusted brand in all of retail. Strictly from a business standpoint, they're the perfect company. They found a way to profit handsomely from everyone else's work.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're offended by this? which is funny because I also thought I was the most lefty of all lefties on PIC (being veggie, non-driving, and a humanities professor).

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/4/2009 7:59:50 AM # Q
here goes better evidence:

"Steve Jobs said when he opened the App Store that it was designed to merely break even and he probably meant it. The apps, which can increase the utility of a mobile device exponentially, are there to bring in users. The profit for Apple as usual is in the high-margin hardware."

from http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/05/14/how-apple-profits-from-the-app-store/

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/4/2009 8:09:20 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
When you are in a store and the sales droid says "$300" to walk out the door that's what you and your credit card hear.

I'll agree that's what "Joe Average Consumer" hears, but there are some of us who actually spend a little time figuring out what we are agreeing to and how much it's really going to cost us. To do otherwise is quite foolish.

But you know what they say about a fool and his money....



Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/4/2009 2:59:16 PM # M Q
Like I said, when Apple designed the iTunes music store, it was meant to break even. It's job was to encourage iPod sales. But increases in customers and prices, as well as a decrease in costs has led it to be profitable in its own right.

Also, I am perfectly fine with Apple making heaps of money off their own hard work and smart decisions. From a business standpoint, it is impossible to disagree with them being the perfect company.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/4/2009 5:55:36 PM # Q
abosco wrote:
From a business standpoint, it is impossible to disagree with them being the perfect company.

"Impossible" and "perfect"? Are you seriously going to use those two words to talk about any company running any business? Hyperbole at its "best", but that is a common pattern with the Apple fanboys. :-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/4/2009 6:56:29 PM # Q
abosco wrote:
Like I said, when Apple designed the iTunes music store, it was meant to break even. It's job was to encourage iPod sales. But increases in customers and prices, as well as a decrease in costs has led it to be profitable in its own right.

Also, I am perfectly fine with Apple making heaps of money off their own hard work and smart decisions. From a business standpoint, it is impossible to disagree with them being the perfect company.

I don't know that they're making obscene profits on the app store. If they're making more money than they expected--and I googled around and I'm right that Steve Jobs said that the app store was only expected to break even--that's because the sales figures have been much higher than expected. I don't accuse Walmart of making money by exploiting its suppliers unless I'm even more leftist than I am. If "Apple literally just supplies a storefront and gets rich off of other developers' work," that's pretty much the definition of retail, no?

And I don't know, but I think projects like the App store are actually ridiculously expensive to create and maintain. That's a lot of time in the software development lab, and a lot of time testing and developing and maintaining. So their costs have to be much more than just paying a couple of guys to review applications.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/4/2009 8:51:23 PM # M Q
"Impossible" and "perfect"? Are you seriously going to use those two words to talk about any company running any business? Hyperbole at its "best", but that is a common pattern with the Apple fanboys. :-)

Right. Do me a favor. Find me another company with an accelerating business and sales increases in this recession, as well as one that has billions in cash and zero debt. Oh, and toss in the best brand recognition and association in the world. What do you get?

Honestly, this isn't fanboyism. This is the best run company today. To say otherwise is moronic at best and criminal at worst.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/4/2009 8:56:29 PM # Q
^^ All of which will make it that much more satisfying when Palm topples them and dances on the iPhone's smelly single-tasking grave. :P /fanboy
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/4/2009 9:28:40 PM # Q
abosco wrote:
Honestly, this isn't fanboyism. This is the best run company today. To say otherwise is moronic at best and criminal at worst.
(emphasis mine)

LOL. You really do kill me man. Now that you've stepped back from "impossible" and "perfect" to only "best" and "criminal", you are right on.

Funny stuff, fanboy. :-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/5/2009 5:57:31 AM # Q
Yeah, you don't like Apple, so you won't even mention the fact that I'm completely correct and have supported my argument with finance. You just sit back and point the finger.

How much is Google making with that awesome Android platform? Open source is the future and all of the customers in the world still want it, right? Sales are skyrocketing?

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/5/2009 7:06:05 AM # Q
"Completely correct"? You really don't seem to get it. My whole point is that you keep using these all inclusive or extreme words like "perfect", "impossible", "best", and "criminal" to describe a company (or in the case of "criminal", to describe anyone who says otherwise). Then you come right back with "completely correct". If you don't see the irony in that, I guess I give up.

Regarding Android and how far it goes, as I've said many times before, wait and see. (I've not even suggesting they are going to make money off of it; and since that isn't their business model, what's the point?) I'm talking about eventual marketshare, not how much money Google makes directly from the sale of Android phones. But in any case, the only way any of us will know for sure is to wait and see how it all plays out. Who knows what will happen? Maybe with all those billions in profit that Apple is making, they'll just buy Google!

Regarding my alleged finger pointing, maybe this would all be easier for you if you only hung out at sites where everyone just loves Apple. You know, the Apple fanboy sites. Then no one would be posting any derogatory comments about Apple and their products. No, I don't like Apple as a company. It has nothing to do with how much money they make. It has to do with how they make it. And it has to do with control. I suppose I shouldn't blame them though. They are only taking advantage of people who willing allow it. :-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/5/2009 7:35:46 AM # M Q
Unfortunately, on the Apple sites, I'm commonly the voice of dissent as people give lavish praise of Apple and Jobs, borderlining on fellatio. Over there, I see people who have such silly blinders and a hard-on for Apple. Over here, I see people stuck in the past and asking Palm for features that are literally already available on the iPhone. And usually, it's because they have a stupid hang-up about virtual keyboards or leaving Verizon.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/5/2009 8:05:17 PM # Q
twrock wrote:
Regarding Android and how far it goes, as I've said many times before, wait and see. (I've not even suggesting they are going to make money off of it; and since that isn't their business model, what's the point?) I'm talking about eventual marketshare, not how much money Google makes directly from the sale of Android phones.

Which leads to a question, even Google, eventually, has to make money. How are they planning to make money with Android? The development costs have to be very high, and they don' t make money off hardware or charge for the OS, so what exactly is the plan?

Apple sucks as much as the next company. I like a lot of their products though. Why do people who don't buy Apple products need to spend so much time telling people who do buy Apple products that there's something wrong with them?

(and no, the fact that annoying apple zealots do it doesn't make it right. It means you should no better than doing what annoys you.)

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
freakout @ 9/5/2009 8:26:09 PM # Q
And usually, it's because they have a stupid hang-up about virtual keyboards or leaving Verizon.

Don't forget "despising everything possible about Apple's marketing, which treats its audience like six-year-olds incapable of making their own decisions".

Seriously. It's rare that advertising is enough to sway my decisions, but I actually find Apple's offensive. (It annoys me even more that it works so well. Oh humanity, when will you learn?)

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
jca666us @ 9/5/2009 9:02:15 PM # Q
>Don't forget "despising everything possible about Apple's marketing, which
>treats its audience like six-year-olds incapable of making their own
>decisions".

How does it do that Freak? If anything, Apple's marketing is extremely effective - unlike Tamara Hope and her ball juggling girlfriend.

>Seriously. It's rare that advertising is enough to sway my decisions, but I
>actually find Apple's offensive.

>(It annoys me even more that it works so well. Oh humanity, when will you
>learn?)

Ugh...when will you learn to take yourself less seriously.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/5/2009 10:38:07 PM # Q
nastebu wrote:
Which leads to a question, even Google, eventually, has to make money. How are they planning to make money with Android? The development costs have to be very high, and they don' t make money off hardware or charge for the OS, so what exactly is the plan?

Google's core business is selling internet advertising. And one of their sidelines apparently is having fun undermining Microsoft and other companies who have the potential to gain a overly powerful monopoly that might at some time threaten Google's core business. Or something like that..... Bah, I'm sure you can work it out. :-)

Why do people who don't buy Apple products need to spend so much time telling people who do buy Apple products that there's something wrong with them?

I don't want to assume you are implying that statement was for me, but just in case it was, here goes.

This is PalmInfocenter. I'm not hanging out over at "AppleInfocenter" telling everyone there how awesome my choice of some alternate product is, how stupid they all are for choosing an iPhone, and how terrible Apple is as a company. So when I choose to debate, argue with, bait, or mock the Apple fanboys among us here at PIC, I'm not going out trying to find them just to start trouble. They, for whatever strange motivation, have chosen to hang out on a Palm oriented website and have their fun taking shots at Palm products, Palm users, and Palm as a company. Apparently they are having fun, and I'm just doing the same.

Now in real life, I'm a closet Apple fanboy who just doesn't have the money to buy Apple products. If I did have enough money to buy the "best darned electronics, made by the best darned company in the whole freakin' world for all freakin' time", I'd be hanging out at "AppleInfocenter" with all the other "normal" Apple fanboys. But that's just me. ;-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/7/2009 8:33:35 AM # Q

In fact, all the iPhone-is-bad-for-carriers stories that have turned up in the trade press since the third week of August and we counted at least a half-dozen stemmed from the same nine-month old Strand press release: "iPhone an operators worst friend."

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/09/07/is-the-iphone-really-the-paris-hilton-of-mobile-phones/


RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
DarthRepublican @ 9/7/2009 3:54:26 PM # Q

In fact, all the iPhone-is-bad-for-carriers stories that have turned up in the trade press since the third week of August and we counted at least a half-dozen stemmed from the same nine-month old Strand press release: "iPhone an operators worst friend."

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/09/07/is-the-iphone-really-the-paris-hilton-of-mobile-phones/


But this article seems to refute the argument. While it interviews the analyst who started this meme, it also cites statements from carriers like AT&T which contradict him. It also points out that the iPhone is driving new users to AT&T who in the long run will subsidize the losses the carrier takes in order to have the iPhone on their network.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
nastebu @ 9/7/2009 10:24:29 PM # Q
One would think that the cost of carrying the iPhone will be duplicated with Android phones and the Pre. It isn't the iPhone per se, it's having a phone on your network that is so good people really *use* it.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
abosco @ 9/8/2009 3:03:39 AM # M Q
Not only does it have to be good enough to use, but it has to sell to millions of people who will do so.

I'm in Atlanta visiting a friend. Between both airports and downtown, I've seen almost nothing but iPhones. Getting texts, taking photos and videos, using assorted apps. I knew the phone has sold millions, but damn, this exceeded my expectations.

At one point, I outstretched my phone among a crowd at the aquarium to take a photo of the clownfish. I was blocked by two other (newer) iPhone 3G-S wielding people each taking a video, and I felt vastly inferior among their fast processors and video editing capabilities. But it must have been quite a sight for everyone else to see three iPhones shoved against a fish tank trying to get a good shot. Ridiculous.

Still haven't seen a Pre or Android in the wild. I saw a black Centro last year. I've seen only a few Blackberries on my trip so far.

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/8/2009 5:04:46 PM # Q

the fact that every schmo and their brother has one makes me NOT want one.
RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
twrock @ 9/8/2009 5:37:35 PM # Q
Yeah, I've never understood that phenomenon. "Everybody's" got one, so I just gotta have it! Seems weird to me, but it happens with so many people that maybe I'm just the weird one for not feeling any need to use the most "popular" products. Herd mentality? I'm in the biggest herd, so I must have made the right choice? But then I really don't get it when these people feel the need to convince everyone else who aren't running in their herd that they need to join and some other choice was an inferior one. Maybe I think it stinks in the middle of their huge herd. Maybe I have some other reason for not jumping in. Why in the world do they care what choice I make? Maybe they will feel "safer" if their herd gets bigger? I guess I just don't get it.

And I dunno, but I just don't get feelings of inferiority because I don't have the latest and greatest of anything. C'mon, really?

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Gekko @ 9/8/2009 7:14:46 PM # Q

"You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later."

"Think about it If you bought the first iPhone, you bought it because you wanted the coolest product on the market. Your two-year contract has just expired. Look around. Tell me what they're going to buy."

- Roger McNamee - March 2009

RE: Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone?
Tim_Carroll @ 9/8/2009 8:24:53 PM # Q
Not to forget the Colligan quote, either....

And yet. People make fun of McNamee, but I like the guy and his thinking. He's got goolies. No, the Pre doesn't appear to have been an iPhone-like smash hit. But he put his money where his mouth was and for such a small fish, Palm are doing an impressive job of sticking it to their much larger, better-resourced competition.

I'm tired of the technocrati fawning over the iPhone. (heck, i was tired of it before the damn thing was even released). The tide of opinion does seem to be slowly turning lately, but in the meantime loudmouth competitors like McNamee who are willing to talk smack are a welcome breath of fresh air.

good on him for giving it a go.
I write here sometimes.

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