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Comments on: Rumor: Next Tungsten May Be the T5

An unconfirmed report from a German palm site is claiming the next Tungsten handhelds from palmOne may be called the Tungsten T5. The report also claims to have some additional info on the handheld.
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Four unlucky number

JonathanChoo @ 8/27/2004 10:36:24 PM #
The number four is an unlucky number not only in Japan but in the eyes of many chinese.

Aside from the model number all I have to say is about time these rumours are starting to leak! The specs given seems to be well below expectations. I would have expected PalmOne to atleast give the next high end Tungsten a 520Mhz processor in line with most new PPCs.

While some here might prefer the slider to go away - personally I think it should remain in the next T handheld. The design is elegant and catches the eyes of many design conscious customers who are bored with the normal tablet designed PDAs out there.

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150

StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)

RE: Four unlucky number
Gekko @ 8/27/2004 10:53:11 PM #
>"The number four is an unlucky number not only in Japan but in the eyes of many chinese."

F 'Em.


RE: Four unlucky number
Bunjay @ 8/28/2004 12:10:17 AM #
The number four in chinese sounds like the word "die" or "dead". A lot of busineses avoid using that number in Asia. I think it's not so much that the Chinese mind the number but probably some superstitious Palm executive thinking that it may jinx the product... They can't mess this up!

Please don't wake me - allow me to dream on.
RE: Four unlucky number
GearHead @ 8/28/2004 12:22:11 AM #
Hey Gekko, we can't really "F 'Em.". After all they are the ones building all Palms and not to mention everthing else around us.
Let's keep it professional...


RE: Four unlucky number
JonathanChoo @ 8/28/2004 12:35:48 AM #
Gekko must I state the obvious? Please act like an adult.

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150

StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)

RE: Four unlucky number
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 8:50:31 AM #

I, for one, will not bow to some Godless-culture's susperstitions!

F 'Em!!!!!!



RE: Four unlucky number
Wolfgard @ 8/28/2004 10:06:14 AM #
Smart remark, gekko. Oh wait... godless culture? Hello??? Get your facts right before even criticising others. Considering 13 unlucky is about smart as calling 4 unlucky so I don't see the reason for flaming others. Peace...

About PalmOne doing their best to not 'jinx' their product, I don't see any reason why they can't skip number 4 (it's only a number, people). I for one don't care much about that, but it's their product and they can do whatever they like. Just bring us a Tungsten with WiFi please!

RE: Four unlucky number
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 10:31:06 AM #
You have to make allowances for Gekko. He's become brain-damaged from touting PPC (and rightly and justly so!).

Not only is 4 considered bad luck in Japan, so is 9.

RE: Four unlucky number
Rome @ 8/28/2004 10:37:07 AM #
Are all PPC people like Gekko? Rude, insensitive, ignorant, and small minded.

This speaks volume about their products...

RE: Four unlucky number
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 10:44:36 AM #

MikeCon - Are you planning on protesting the RNC Convention in NYC this week? I sure hope so - I really look forward to seeing footage of you and the rest of your socialist trash on the news being maced, beaten, and cuffed by New York's finest.



Grow up you nerds
Strider_mt2k @ 8/28/2004 10:52:57 AM #
Welcome to Palm Daycarecenter!

Where it's the best of mudslinging nerd-on-nerd action!


RE: Four unlucky number
Hal2000 @ 8/28/2004 11:24:09 AM #
Gekko - Due to you, I can see the light........Between your ears. Please stand on your stack of pos devices and praise ppc somewhere else.

Zodiac2/T616
1.128 gigs under the hood.
RE: Four unlucky number
acaltabiano @ 8/28/2004 11:26:42 AM #
China has a ruthless communist dictatorship and you accuse them of being godless? Wow. You must get A LOT of exercise jumping to conclusions.

Since you are a "Gekko," you are a cold-blooded lizard? appears so...

How many office buildings skip the 13th floor in the US? Should we F' us too? Damn, admit you might have overstepped your boundaries here and give up the ghost. That's bad...

Bad news for Stan Lee
Strider_mt2k @ 8/28/2004 11:47:11 AM #
Sales of "Fantastic Four" comics never did well there for that reason, the common beleif being that it was an illustrated guide to a really spectacular suicide.

Marvel Comics for years tried to market a "Fantastic Five" comic book to asia, but never quite worked in the additional character of "Glinky the Space Thing" to the satisfaction of Stan Lee.

RE: Four unlucky number
Token User @ 8/28/2004 12:47:50 PM #
F 'em? It comes with a radio??
Once again PalmOne is behind on the tech curve ... they should have loaded it up with XM Satellite.

Gekko - crawl back under your rock. Politics and religion have no place in these forums.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: Four unlucky number
hkklife @ 8/28/2004 2:50:40 PM #
Ryan, please get 'em outta here. We have new handhelds on the horizon and there certaily ain't no place for this on PIC.

For the record, I'd rather PalmOne concentrate on squashing bugs, improving build quality/screen quality, OS 6 early adopter woes, battery life etc instead of just piling on the features to gobble more battery life.

In all honesty, I'd rather see a faster SD bus access & Speedstep-style intelligent power management than a higher-clocked CPU.

RE: Four unlucky number
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 5:29:52 PM #
Hey, Gekko, about 200 of your FELLOW CITIZENS got arrested last night in the New New York City Police State because they DARED to want to ride BICYCLES past the convention site. Doesn't that just warm the ****les of your dictatorial heart?

Go Nader!

RE: Four unlucky number
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 5:31:18 PM #
Dumb censorware. C-o-c-k-l-e-s was the word.

RE: Four unlucky number
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 6:51:44 PM #
>"DARED to want to ride BICYCLES past the convention site"

A bunch of socialists with noting but trouble on their minds! Lock 'em up and throw away the key!

RE: Four unlucky number
abosco @ 8/28/2004 8:12:46 PM #
My side - 13 is not nearly as common of a number as four. To skip the number four just to make supersticious Asians feel better is simply silly to me. Office buildings that don't have a 13th floor are also dumb to me. F us AND F 'em. What if I suddenly decided the number one was unlucky? Are they going to stop making any sort of product with the number one?

To go out of your way to rename your products so you don't use an "unlucky" number just seems.. well.. dumb. Is that so ignorant?

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + T616 (now resting at the bottom of a waterfall)

RE: Four unlucky number
RhinoSteve @ 8/28/2004 10:59:32 PM #
Gekko, you have it right. A bunch of socialist so low in emotions they can't do a straight fight and scream "peace" but what they really mean is "slavery."

When you have your freedoms taken away, told how to think and are powerless to fight, you are at peace.
RE: Four unlucky number
Patrick @ 8/29/2004 2:14:20 AM #
I guess I don't see it as Palm going out of their way. It costs them nothing to call it the T5 instead of the T4, other than the wrath of pundits like us. It may not bring them the riches of Everest, but it surely doesn't hurt, so why not?


RE: Four unlucky number
JonathanChoo @ 8/29/2004 2:49:01 AM #
Put a number 4 on your product and see your product bomb. If you want people in jobs you need your product to sell. If one billion potential future customers is not enough to broaden your mind then I can't see what can. This is marketing. And marketing is part and parcel of capitalism. If you want PalmOne, an American company to fail - then be my guess.

This is the problem with some people, they sit in their house worshipping whatever they usually worship (in this case an Axim) while not going out to experience the World and living the life. Gekko, do you even have a passport? Or a girl friend?

Rome: Not all PPC people are like Gekko. I am also a PPC user but I don't worship PDAs. Or my prime minister.

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150

StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)

RE: Four unlucky number
JonathanChoo @ 8/29/2004 3:15:55 AM #
Damn it I meant guest!

Back to the topic of Tungsten - latest rumour has it that the T3 would get an OS6 upgrade. Oh and a 1src.com and BargainPDA has a pix of the alleged T5.

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?s=230dd466e45fee8a1c8133c7e29e081e&t=65932&page=2&pp=15

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150

StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)

More info on T3 and T5
JonathanChoo @ 8/29/2004 3:25:43 AM #
http://www.nexave.de/news/show.php?id=1410

According to this German site, the T3 would receive an OS6 update a month after the release of the T5.

And more juicy specs: 520Mhz PXA270 processor, 128Mb RAM, OS6, 320x480 res, Bluetooth, WiFi, UC, SD slot. Dimensions is 11.94cm x 7.62cm x 1.68cm. Priced would be similar to T3 when first released. If the specs are correct, the T5 would be slightly thicker than the T3 (bigger battery?).

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)

MikeCon
Gekko @ 8/29/2004 2:21:49 PM #

Con - are you somewhere in the middle of this endless parade of human debris?

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040829/capt.tjs10808291639.cvn_protests_tjs108.jpg



RE: Four unlucky number
ackmondual @ 8/30/2004 2:00:33 PM #
"triskaidekaphobia". Other than buildings not having a 13th floor and the stigma of "Friday the 13th", there's actually a word in the English language that denotes an abnormal fear of the number 13. In Chinese, reading a book while playing a game or gambling is bad luck... again, b/c the word "book" in chinese also sounds like the word "lose". In US however, they also have stuff like walking under ladders is "suicidal" and breaking a mirror is bad luck (maybe their superstitions for just children, i don't know), but IMO, all of it is plain silly.

HOWEVER, there is, as mentioned, the concept and power of marketing, which is what allows one brand of cereal to outsell another brand of the SAME contents simply b/c it has a monkey instead of a goat or product lines to sell b/c of excessive uses of buzz words. P1 needs to make as many sales as it can, and if it means changing one # just to rack in more sales, I'd say, go for it.

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: Four unlucky number
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 4:28:59 PM #
>>>are you somewhere in the middle of this endless parade of human debris

I was there.

I think it's time for Gekko to be aborted from this site.

RE: Four unlucky number
Strider_mt2k @ 8/30/2004 6:53:02 PM #
Yes, please stop the last word fest between the kiddies.


RE: Four unlucky number
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 7:19:14 PM #
BTW, Strider, I saw your post on BH about your nascent PPC lust. Don't do it! It'd be money down the drain.

RE: Four unlucky number
jayhawk88 @ 8/31/2004 8:22:52 AM #
You people really need to learn to stop feeding the trolls.

RE: Four unlucky number
Winter_ @ 8/31/2004 12:06:19 PM #
Oh, but they're sooooo cute! :)
RE: Four unlucky number
Stefanos @ 8/31/2004 1:30:21 PM #
"Hey, Gekko, about 200 of your FELLOW CITIZENS got arrested last night in the New New York City Police State because they DARED to want to ride BICYCLES past the convention site. Doesn't that just warm the ****les of your dictatorial heart?

Go Nader!"

YEAH! I knew there was something I liked about mikecane.

WHAT ABOUT THE PENTIUM!?!
ackmondual @ 8/31/2004 4:51:25 PM #
how did Intel and vendors get away with selling new PCs with the "Intel Pentium 4 processor"? Or did they have the 3 digit scheme that's only introduced now in US? (e.g. 3xx for Celerons, 5xx for early 400MHz FSB P4s, 6xx for 533MHz FSB P4s, etc.)

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!

GearHead @ 8/28/2004 12:14:49 AM #
This could be it guys. I think finally Palm is going to make it happen. First new Treo, now this. Also skipping 4 straight to 5 makes total sense. I personally like the form factor on slider design. I don't think Plam should give up that innovative idea that easy. Look around nobody but Sharp has that. Well we all now Sharp is not a real deal for most of us, so Palm is fairly unique and useful with the new design. I think they shold have two handhelds, like T5 and T5s (for slider).
As far as processor goes, we definetely want the new Intels under the hood, nothing less than 312MHz, with all the power goodies.

Let's hope Santa hears all these wishes...

Free 802.11 No More Wires!!!
Support your local WAN!

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
Gar @ 8/28/2004 12:34:39 AM #
I would love to see a 'Palm' device like my TH55. I am one of those big time WiFi users. Having had a 'C' since they first came out, I just didn't enjoy the screen size and keyboard. Personal preference. With the Clie line going away and not "loving" the slider I have been wondering what the future held for folks like me. Landscape view on an all screen device running the new OS, WiFi (bluetooth too!!)... neat. Sure, I dont' have any facts to add on if this is the path or not. But I just have to believe there are other serious business users out there like me that need these type of hardware features. Fingers crossed.

-----------------
My wife has to sell a lot of candles (www.ccandles.com) to buy her new Palm.
RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
CaptMyCapt @ 8/28/2004 1:22:19 AM #
Sure, WiFi+Bluetooth works, big time, and PalmOne should pump up the internal memory to at least 512MB. Afterall, that wouldn't make the unit larger. Also, I think the slider rocks, why kill a good thing . . . I'd have to trash the great cases I've purchased.
RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
Sleuth255 @ 8/28/2004 11:14:44 AM #
Watch it come down like this:

T5 has no built in WiFi but can make use of the WiFi SD card. Its sliderless design allows P1 to (finally) give it a replaceable battery.

Watch for the T5/WiFi card bundle that gets priced about the same as the iPAQ 4155 allowing the T5 sans WiFi to get priced much more agressively. P1 won't have the margin overhead on circuitry/licensing fees (from Sychip who makes all the WiFi chips installed in PDAs) built into every T5 it makes just to support the users who can't live without WiFi.

In fact, what if the T5 instead sported a "long" SD slot designed specifically for the WiFi card that lets it get inserted flush with the case. All this in addition to the standard SD slot. Maybe this is the actual truth behind the "dual SD" rumor.

T3 users purchasing the WiFi card in September can use it in their new T5 whenever they decide to upgrade too.

how about this for some crazy sh!t!

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
hkklife @ 8/28/2004 2:54:09 PM #
Sleuth/Klw and I talked about this on Brighthand months ago, IIRC. I specifically predicted a T4 (at the time) & Wi-Fi PalmOne card bundle/combo pack that'd be VERY aggressively priced & promoted around the holidays.

At the time I was expecting just a refresh of the T3 but now with the leaked pics of the new Treo, a non-slider T5 with dual SDIO (one of the slots being "long" as you state) and a replacable battery makes mega-sense. Now just keep the power consumption reasonably low, keep the bugs & build quality hiccups out and give me a UC--I'm all over it!

Personally, I'll be glad to see the slider go as long as the screen doesn't descrease any in physical viewable size.

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 5:33:24 PM #
Long SD slot?! I have to admit that's one hell of a good point about not having to pay the Sychip fees for each unit sold.

Right now, I'm wondering if when the SD card itself debuts, if p1 won't drop the price of the T3 -- or bundle the card with it at the current price (ie, $399 for the set).

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
tthiel @ 8/29/2004 3:39:36 AM #
Long SD slot makes no sense and won't happen. If the T5 doesn't have Wi-fi built in it's a dead duck. Palm knows this I'm sure.

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
rcartwright @ 8/29/2004 2:15:20 PM #
>Long SD slot makes no sense and won't happen. If the T5 doesn't have Wi-fi built in it's a dead duck. Palm knows this I'm sure.<

tthiel,

At the risk of being roundly flamed, Wi-Fi is not as critical as battery life and price. However, that said, they have got to have a dual slot if the Wi-Fi is not onboard. If you want or need Wi-Fi, you can get it without taking a hit on the slot or appearence. The mobile suit is looking for Bluetooth so they can use the addressbook for their phone and with a lot of the EDGE phones and unlimited data plans, who needs Wi-Fi in a PDA? This is especally true if you live somewhere other than NYC or the Bay Area where your phone coverage is a lot better than free Wi-Fi hotspots.


Rick C

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 4:31:33 PM #
Gee, just imagine the huge mistake hp has been making, including WiFi in THEIR devices...

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
rcartwright @ 8/30/2004 6:32:57 PM #

on 8/30/2004 mikecane ranted
>Gee, just imagine the huge mistake hp has been making, including WiFi in THEIR devices...<

Mike,

Two big advantages that Palm has over PPC is price and battery life. Note that I said that it was critical that Palm have the Wi-Fi option there via a SD slot. That way those that want wi-fi can get it, accepting any price and batttery life compromises and thise that don't want or need wi-fi do not have to.

The more that I have thought about it, the more that I have to question the need for wi-fi in PDAs that have Bluetooth. As I posted before, access to a lot of Wi-Fi hot spots cost you. (Starbucks, Kinkos to name two) I submit that in light of the all you can eat data plans that we are starting to see and real high speed access, why be nibbled to death by ducks and mermaids throug paying for wi-fi acess fees?

Rick C



Rick C

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 7:20:25 PM #
This BT vs WiFi debate is tiring. Not everyone wants a cellphone. And wasn't Handsping (the original creator) roundly critized for not putting BT in the original Treo? To them, *that* made sense. After all, you can get the net *without* BT. (Of course, the BT people want their Borg attachments...)

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 7:21:59 PM #
Damn -- sorry for the typos. Bloody awful keyboard! I'll look more closely on this PC...

RE: This makes sense! I am game for WiFi+Bluetooth!
e_tellurian @ 8/31/2004 3:23:01 PM #
Thanks.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

So What's the T?

I.M Anonymous @ 8/28/2004 12:41:45 AM #
Okay, so supposedly in the Tungsten line we have:

T - Transformational
C - Communicative
W - Wireless
E - Economical

If the T5 has no slider, Shouldn't it be have another letter? Maybe it will just be the Tungsten5.

RE: So What's the T?
Strider_mt2k @ 8/28/2004 11:36:53 AM #
Transformational? really?

Erp, what am I asking? I still can't remember what "clie" stands for.

I know the e was changed to "exiting". ;)

RE: So What's the T?
ackmondual @ 8/30/2004 1:56:42 PM #
heh, if the E2 is gonna cost more than $350, it won't be so "economical", unless they add alot of features to make it worth it.

Personally, I'm still confused about the Zire72. I think they should've called it Zire81, as it's not just a better still digicam from the Z71, but also with: BT, vid cam, VR, more mem.

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: So What's the T?
Altema @ 8/30/2004 5:09:54 PM #
T - testosterone?


Make The Leap

zipmail @ 8/28/2004 9:17:36 AM #
Finally, a Treo that I would seriously consider buying! But then again, the ante has been upped by newer PocketPC phones and Smartphones from Microsoft. Plus, Nokia's 9500 looks like a serious contender for the "out-of-pocket" office title. It needs WiFi. Sure, the SD/IO slot may solve that but it means swapping out cards.

I can't help that PalmOne always seems to play catch-up. Don't get me wrong - I am not bashing them. Just that if this was the original Treo 600, it would have been the "wow" device for the year (it still is to some).

WiFi is here to stay and just including Bluetooth which was so last year for this year's model is... voila, playing catch up.

So, PalmOne - I hope you can make that leap soon and be in that leadership position again.



RE: Make The Leap
chinchorrero @ 8/28/2004 10:31:01 AM #
New T5 (picture)?
http://www.pdamexico.net/content/view/630
cheers

"Life is Too Short"
Clie UX50-Sony ericsson T610,HBH-60,SanDisk 256Mb Sd Card
RE: Make The Leap
ozz @ 8/28/2004 11:02:50 AM #
This photo shows the slider design. Personally, I would sacrifice the slider for a thinner model, if it were up to me.

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Make The Leap
sam_in_silver @ 8/28/2004 11:26:06 AM #
I detest the slider. My slider catches after only a year of use. It is not smoothe. Also the software sometimes does not detect the slider has been used.

I will add my pitch for blending graffitti 1 with g2. There was hope on the Zire 72 and with Palm winning the lawsuit. On the Zire 72 there was once a note implying both graffiti 1 and 2 were available. Double stroke characters slow down data entry due to having to wait for the PDA to detect which character to use. Some g2 is nice, and I see no mutual exclusivity between g2 and g1, so, Palm - blend them, or give us choices.

Bluetooth is useful and more reliable for beaming than the IR, so I like that and would wish it to stay. I agree that Wifi, while a different concept, should also be there due to it catching on.

Finally, on data entry, I hope Palm will fix the annoying problem whereby sometimes when entering data in a field, such as in DocsToGo, nothing will accept the data as data entry. Instead it insists that you are simply moving the cursor around the screen. In other words a better way of managing screen location/cursos movement and actually entering data. This is inherent with any device where data entry is not done in a reserved area: again a byproduct of that slider design, although the T3 does have the same flaw (which is why I gave it away).

RE: Make The Leap
ozz @ 8/28/2004 11:54:05 AM #
Regarding Graffiti, the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And since the courts have determined that G1 ain't broke, I think Palm should go back to the original Graffiti and scrap the G2.

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: Make The Leap
tfftruoa @ 8/28/2004 6:26:24 PM #
Looking at the picture, I noticed somehting that i found fairly interesting. The proportions of the screen are different. My T3s screen looks longer. Perhaps this a sign of using a VGA screen. 320*480 is a 1*1.5 ratio, wheras 480*640 is a 1*1.333 ratio.

Sharp Wizard-->Handspring Visor "Deluxe"-->Sony Clie SJ30-->Palm Tungsten T3 w/ SE T68i
RE: Make The Leap
I.M Anonymous @ 8/29/2004 2:34:30 AM #
Scroll down. The title picture is of a t3, but the pictures below are of a new beast with (a) no slider, (b) a tiny d-pad, and (c) a hideous full color PalmOne logo.

RE: Make The Leap
IanJD @ 8/29/2004 10:24:35 AM #
The picture at the top is not a T3. The screen is the wrong shape and the case design is different, particularly the top.

I hate the slider!
twrock @ 8/29/2004 9:59:19 PM #
Before I bought my T2 I thought the slider might be a great thing. "Just look how much smaller the thing is," I thought. Now I hate it. Nothing but a pain. If someone made a hard case for it in the open position, I'd leave it open permanently. A T5 without a slider? Just what the doctor ordered.

And PLEASE bring back Grafitti 1. I don't care what Palm said about Grafitti 2 being "better," it is nothing but a bunch of extra, unnecessary strokes. Hey, even the PRC government recognized that extra strokes were a waste of time. ;-)

RE: Make The Leap
ackmondual @ 8/30/2004 2:13:07 PM #
QUOTE:
I will add my pitch for blending graffitti 1 with g2. There was hope on the Zire 72 and with Palm winning the lawsuit. On the Zire 72 there was once a note implying both graffiti 1 and 2 were available. Double stroke characters slow down data entry due to having to wait for the PDA to detect which character to use. Some g2 is nice, and I see no mutual exclusivity between g2 and g1, so, Palm - blend them, or give us choices.
: END

there are ways around it
http://discussion.brighthand.com/palmhandhelds/showthread.php?s=150f5e78b7264a2e81e12ed0ee22639c&threadid=66227
I posted illustrations on how to write a space immediately following an 'L'. You can do the same with other 2 stroke characters as well. Here are some of them:

"51" instead of '$' - s in the number area followed by an 'a' OR a regular '1' (vertical line) ontop or below the 's'

"-1" instead of '+' - keep the horizontal and vertical lines from intersecting in the number area

In general, strokes that normally interesect to create such characters can to seperated to create other characters without waiting for the 1st stroke to 'settle'

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: Make The Leap
sam_in_silver @ 8/31/2004 10:09:08 AM #
the references you make on how to avoid a couple of the G2 "complications" are correct. Fixing a disaster is less effective then preventing the disaster. G2 offers no benefit, creates confusion, and introduces a complication in detecting cursor movement versus text entry.

The entire American legal system consists of creating obstacles, then solutiuons to those obstacles. It has as yet not ocurred to our law men in DC that life would be simpler if the obstacles were not built in the first place.

Similarly with Palm. Why go from a very fast and easy to use G1 to a cumbersome G2, while removing the ability to retain the old characters that worked? The logical extension would have been to change EVERY lettin in that move, something even Palm chose not to do.

I see no reason why bht G1 people, and the G2 people cannot be happy and that can be done by providing single stroke letters from G1 as alternatives to their G2 counterparts. Tealscript did this however that has other issues.

The method suggested in the prior post about not overlapping a character or partial character, while true, is rather useless on the Kyocera smartphone where the pad is small and it is easy to overlap without intending it to do so.

Dont give me work arounds for a system that was "fixed" when it was never "broke" in the first place. Give me one valid reason right now why I Palm cannot give the single stroke letters back - at least as a selectable option.

Simon

256 MT

mikecane @ 8/28/2004 10:32:42 AM #
Babelfish is at it again. The original text mentions **256 MB** of memory. Up yours, PPC!

RE: 256 MB
ackmondual @ 8/30/2004 2:36:33 PM #
I thought OS5 only supports up to 128MB of RAM. Would the 256MB be after OS6 is updated on it?

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]
RE: 256 MT
Fernando @ 8/30/2004 11:52:17 PM #
actually if i remember correctly, os5 supports a couple of gigabytes of memory..... os6 i think supports a terabyte or something like that.... don't quote me on this, but trust me when i say the os won't limit the memory....

Hate the slider

tthiel @ 8/28/2004 12:27:46 PM #
Can't stand the slider so I hope it's gone. Full screen, thinner, with Wi-fi and bluetooth would be just what I need. Hope it's true as I'm coing close to going to the dark side as soon as I can see an HP47XX.

RE: Hate the slider
hussain @ 8/28/2004 12:48:19 PM #
I like the slider, but ther slider is a hit or miss thing, some people like and others hate it.

but i think there going to keep the slider cause when I think tungsten T I think the slider not the massive screen, and that just sounds like a tungsten E replacement not the T5

RE: Hate the slider
Strider_mt2k @ 8/28/2004 5:26:43 PM #
I also hate the slider.
In my opinion it detracts from the handheld experience by introducing a needless mechanical googaw.

From the pics that are circulating it looks like it may not have one anyway.


So glad if slider is history
Patrick @ 8/29/2004 2:21:12 AM #
I predict that the first time you hold a T5 in your hand, you'll say to yourself, "Now that is what a PDA ought to feel like". Solid. Comfortable. No moving parts.

Zen.


RE: Hate the slider
Strider_mt2k @ 8/29/2004 11:48:22 AM #
Seriously, no offense intended, but...

I say that now.
Every time I pick up my TH55!

Psion did the same!!

rwarrender @ 8/28/2004 1:03:28 PM #
This is not new. If any of you remember Psion. They had the Psion Series 3 handheld and then the Series 3a (Series 4 really) and then jumped to the much loved Psion Series 5. Then the Psion Series 5mx (Series 6 really) and then it jumped again to the Psion Series 7. (Opps! and I forgot to mention the 3c and 3mx series)

Also, I think its clever marketing - T5 sounds like the Palm powered handheld has been though 5 versions and is a refined product.

I guess 6 a bad number as well??

Richard Warrender - Hand2Hand5 Webmaster
[i][url]www.hand2hand5.plus.com[/url][/i]

RE: Rude Pocket PC Owners?
NewtonDKC @ 8/28/2004 2:33:40 PM #
No, not all Pocket PC Owners are rude or bigoted, at least I hope no one thinks that I am rude (and I'm certainly not bigoted or nationalistic (tho I am patriotic - which is a big difference, of course!). :-)
I for one desperately want the T5 to be the device Palm needs to really compete (and hopefully surpass) the Pocket PC line. I own both devices, but have not had a new Palm for some time as the Pocket PC's have simply met my needs better (my current Pocket PC is an iPAQ 4150 a device equal to or slightly smaller - depending on the dimension being compared - to the m505, with built in WiFi and BT, 400MHz, etc.). A T5 with Built in WiFI, Palm OS 6 (sorry, I just can't bring myself to use the cobalt and garnet names, I really dislike them!), 320x480, removable battery, and thinner/shorter would most likely make me switch my main device back to a Palm OS device. The new iPAQ line doesn't have a direct replacement for the 4150 - which IMO is the best PDA ever released by anyone! The new devices are either slightly larger with equal (or in some cases, FEWER) features than the 4150, and can't match its style. They also have no "small" devices with VGA screens, so Palm - if they can make a T5 w/ 320x480 and keep it small - will still have the screen advantage.
What always angered me to no end was Palm's glacial enhancement to the product line (waiting for the m505 to become the m515 was enough to make me say goodbye to Palm), and now that SOny is out my big fear is that they will go back to trickling out new models (2005: oh, here's the new Zire 75 - it's a 72 but with a higher megapixel camera 2006: here's the ZIre 76 - it's a 75 but with more memory and Palm OS Cobalt) and so on..no, I am not being a nsotty Pocket PC user - in fact, I am amzed at how quickly a user who dares use a Pocket PC or say anything good about it can be ostracized by the Palm community - my personal feeling is that we are ALL PDA users - and as such the distictions that fanatical users typically tend to make among different models.platforms, etc are IMO non-productive and pointless. In fact, look at how most of the non-PDA using people view all of us - as "Palm Pilot users" regardless of whether we use Palm, PPC, or some other platform (a no matter that there has been no such PDA as a Palm Pilot for almost 8 years now...
ANyway, my point is we're all more similar than different, and I personally will use whatever device suits my needs the best, be it Palm, PPC, or something else (I started out on a Newton MessagePad 110, and have been a Handheld user ever since).
Back to topic tho - I fear for Palm, and their old practice of v...e...r...y...s...l...o...w...evolution of hardware is something that they can no longer afford to do. SOny may be gone, but PPC is now much more a danger than it was in the "good bad old days", thus Palm needs to ditch the "little bit at a time" philosophy and deliver some decked out powerhouses the way only Palm can, at comparable prices and features sets (or above in features would be a nice change for once!) or else their market share is going to continue to slide. So come on Palm, get off your lazy laurels and dazzle us, show us what Palm can really do, and make it so sexy and powerful and useful that everyone will have to have one. That's the Palm that a lot of users would come back to... :-)

RE: Psion did the same!!
Strider_mt2k @ 8/28/2004 5:29:42 PM #
I think you put it very very well.

RE: Psion did the same!!
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 5:44:54 PM #
>>>SOny may be gone, but PPC is now much more a danger than it was in the "good bad old days",

Only in theory. Only *unused*. Once people buy it and *try* to use it, they run away!

RE: Rude Pocket PC Owners?
AyDb @ 8/28/2004 8:07:38 PM #
Can I get a 'hell yeah'?

RE: Psion did the same!!
AyDb @ 8/28/2004 9:33:25 PM #
Clarification--I was replying to NewtonDKC, when Mike Cane slipped in there. Mike, you folks keep burying your heads in the sand. You endlessly repeat your memes about how bad PocketPC is, how slow, how unstable, how nasty, and all the rest, irrespective of the fact that none of that is true. None of you have taken a real, open-eyed look at Pocket PC to see if anything you say about it is accurate--you simply bash it because it's not Palm. It's the same attitude that has paralleled the snail-like advancement of Palm-powered devices. Once upon a time, the chant was "nobody wants a color screen," or "nobody wants WiFi," or whatever the evil improvement of the month is. The hardcore PPC bashers have become so defined by being the opposite of Pocket PC that they're unable to accept that there are things about it that are better than Palm, and should be emulated.

RE: Psion did the same!!
LiveFaith @ 8/28/2004 10:12:38 PM #
They may be polite and gracious ... but they sure look "long winded". :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Psion did the same!!
Patrick @ 8/29/2004 2:26:58 AM #
NewtonDKC... I echo the sentiment that you put that very well.

I think the ostracism to which you refer comes from two sources....

One, people here genuinely like Palm and their philosophy -- the idea that the device should be very good at what you use it for the most. Witness the ease with which you can create appointments, edit fields in your contacts database, etc. These take just a couple of taps. Not so with PPC. But, hey, PPC can play any kind of multimedia file out there! Woo-hoo. For me, the ease of use far, far outweighs the feeping creaturism. But, frankly, Palm fans are all too aware of Microsoft's deep pockets and the fate of its previous rivals. I'm happy for PPC lovers who want real time video multi-tasked with MP3 downloads. Go buy a PPC and fill your boots. But its not what I want and I dont want Palm to fail because of Microsoft's deep pockets. That would mean I would HAVE to use Microsoft products again, ones which I consider inferior. So excuse me if I root for the little guy, even if the little guy happens to be number one (market share) at the present time.

Two, we have been trolled to death on PIC and elsewhere by idiots who, unlike yourself, can see absolutely nothing good in Palm and absolutely nothing bad in PPC. Yes, they are not credible, but they have polluted thread after thread with nonsense no different than spam. When I see another PPC proponent come on board here, I shudder to think that it may be another MMM (Mindless Microsoft Moron).

That all said, I have to completely agree with your depiction of Palm in its production of incremental hardware upgrades. Just look at the T5, if there truly are only 128MB of RAM on it you have to ask yourself why? Memory is cheap, cheap, cheap! Put a ton on it, for crying out loud. Surely there is no technical barrier. The only reason for having 128, I think, is that it's predecessor had 64. Very infuriating to see such small steps from the main producer of my favourite PDAs.


RE: Psion did the same!!
tthiel @ 8/29/2004 3:42:57 AM #
Pocket PC interface still sucks. Thats why there are so many interface "enhancers". That Start menu is stupid, it still takes 4 or 5 taps or more to do anything, and the built in Pocket apps suck. Despite all that I may go to Pocket PC and patch it up with software to make it usable because Palm isn't showing me anything I want.

more memory would imply...
Winter_ @ 8/29/2004 4:55:51 AM #
...surely a (greater) need for memory management, and also for a better way of filling that memory.

There should be some kind of update to the way Hotsync works, it should be WAY faster.

And about "memory management": I usually have my SD cards almost full and have to start deleting things to put there some 200 KB file - while the internal memory has still >20MB free (and I still could delete a number of apps that haven't been used since the day I installed them). If I had 128 MB of internal memory, I guess I'd have about 80 whooping MB of unused memory, while I'd still be shuffling SD cards looking for another 200 KB of free space.
Is this situation gonna change?
(yes, I know and have tried RAMdrive and use it when absolutely necessary - but causes problems and looks like the 2002 version IS the last one that will ever be)


While we're at it: I've been wondering about the uses of putting FireWire on a PDA. Wouldn't it be nice? No more problems about USB host vs. USB "client" (or whatever it is called), since FW is peer-to-peer; plenty of speed; possibility to use FireWire devices... (not only disk drives; what about using the PDA to control a digital videocamera, for example?)


RE: Psion did the same!!
Calroth @ 8/29/2004 8:27:44 PM #
'Pocket PC interface still sucks. Thats why there are so many interface "enhancers".'

And how many alternate Launchers are there for Palm OS?

RE: Psion did the same!!
Strider_mt2k @ 8/30/2004 2:34:26 PM #
MANY

I have to speak up as someone who did away with using alot of the bult-ins that came with my Clie TH55.

It's Palm OS, but I still ditched G2 for G1, CO, and more.

RE: Psion did the same!!
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 4:34:48 PM #
>>>Mike, you folks keep burying your heads in the sand. You endlessly repeat your memes about how bad PocketPC is, how slow, how unstable, how nasty, and all the rest, irrespective of the fact that none of that is true.

Yo, MS-butt-kisser. I just got done using a PPC that I BOUGHT! It's crap! YOU can keep spreading the lies in the hopes that BillG the Sociopath will send you some consulting work (or adopt you, it's what all you PPC weenies *really* want), the rest of us WON'T repeat your lies about how "great" and "stable" and "productive" PPC is.

RE: Psion did the same!!
yusakugo @ 8/31/2004 10:17:01 AM #
Although I personally think Palm OS is a much better than the PocketPC OS... there definitely things that each OS does better than the other. Palm OS doesn't support memory cards over 512MB currently... My T/C couldn't read my 1GB SD card. To use medical programs like UptoDate (890 MB needed on a storage card... yes I really mean 890 MB!), I have to go to a Pocket PC device.

To say that the Pocket PCs are junk is just plain wrong. I don't think the Pocket PCs are as elegant or efficient as a Palm OS device but I do think there is a more innovation occuring in the Pocket PC hardware camp than in Palm own camp. It would be nice if PalmOne released a handheld with a VGA quality screen... I couldn't give a hoot about built-in digital cameras with PDAs.

RE: Psion did the same!!
Be_True @ 8/31/2004 2:38:50 PM #
yusakugo said:

"Palm OS doesn't support memory cards over 512MB currently...
My T/C couldn't read my 1GB SD card."

I'll have to disagree with you there.
My Tungsten C is reading my 1GB SD card just fine.
I've got 500MB on it already.

Tungsten C has the latest updates (version 3?)
SD card is a SanDisk (www.sandisk.com)

What kind of trouble were you having?

-Chris


Tungsten C, Palm IIIxe, Wizard OZ-9520

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

RE: Psion did the same!!
gfunkmagic @ 9/1/2004 3:41:22 AM #
>>>>Palm OS doesn't support memory cards over 512MB currently...

Huh?! Watcha talkin 'bout willis? There's tons of users using 1GB SD cards in their Tungstens and Treos...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Psion did the same!!
gfunkmagic @ 9/1/2004 3:43:15 AM #
>>>>To use medical programs like UptoDate (890 MB needed on a storage card... yes I really mean 890 MB!), I have to go to a Pocket PC device.


Maybe cus it a PPC? Just get the entire emedicine pda lib. It costs about $100 bucks and is about a 100 MB's which fits easily on my Treo 600 SD card fyi! :)

http://secure.emedicine.com/itemlist.wws?category=PDA+eBooks

WOrks very well from my experience! :)

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Psion did the same!!
yusakugo @ 9/1/2004 10:07:50 AM #
I tried two 1GB cards from SanDisk and one from SimpleTech... no go. It tries to read the file and then goes into a fatal error leading into a soft reset. I've put in the latest Tungsten C ROM files (yeah, it's the third version that was released within the past 1-2 months). Do you think that since my T/C was one of the first run Tungsten Cs that this has anything to do with my problems with the cards higher than 512MB? The 1GB SD cards work on various other devices including a multiple digital cameras, my computers, and even my AudioVox/Toshiba Maestro Pocket PC. I am using a 512MB Lexar with no problems in my T/C.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the one program I use most often on a PDA comes only for a Pocket PC platform. I'm carrying both PDAs with me to work... since I keep all my other stuff on the T/C.

The emergency programs don't cover the information I need for my field... Infectious Disease. 5 minute ID consult isn't that great either from Skyscape. I much preferred UptoDate since the information is the same as on the website and CD-ROMs and extremely extensive (except for lacking pictures and some diagrams on the Pocket PC version). I was hoping that UpToDate would release a version for the Palm OS since many of the good mini-references are available for Palm OS already.

RE: Psion did the same!!
yusakugo @ 9/1/2004 10:25:14 AM #
Actually, just reviewing your comment again. I misread it the first time through... I didn't realize that emedicine sold their entire library for $99... that option I haven't tried yet. I give that a try... hopefully it will be as good as UpToDate.


RE: Psion did the same!!
mikecane @ 9/1/2004 6:04:43 PM #
Why not contact p1 and complain loudly about the SD woes of your unit? As a med pro, you should be able to carry the info you need!

New T5 Pic

Gekko @ 8/28/2004 3:09:52 PM #
http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65932

Also, Palm new product release dates are typically around 11-1 and 5-1.



RE: New T5 Pic
mikecane @ 8/28/2004 5:40:23 PM #
http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65932&page=4&pp=15

-- this shows THREE pictures on one page.

Good God! Tell me it ain't so! That joypad is TOO SMALL!!!

And what about that Mr Palm photo?! Is there to be a new unit with a slider too? Or is that a PShop jobbie?

RE: New T5 Pic
Foo Fighter @ 8/28/2004 5:49:31 PM #
I say it's a PhotoChop job. My grandfather's dentures look more convincing than any of these photos.

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: New T5 Pic
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 6:33:53 PM #
I've pieced thus together so far from the TungstenInfo/1src thread:

Tungsten|T5

-Cobalt OS6, 128MB RAM, HiRes+,
- bluetooth, WiFi built-in
- 520MHz PXA270 chip.
- No Slider
- D-pad will be Tungsten|C-styled.
- The battery is good enough to survive a workday.
- November 2004 release.
-.50 in shorter than a T3 slid open.
- Size 4.7x3.0x0.66in.
- slightly heavier that T3, but not a lot.
- 1 SD slot. But as it already has built-in bluetooth and wifi (802.11b).
- Universal Connecter - Included.
- New 'Media' appliction.
- around $399.



RE: New T5 Pic
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 6:46:23 PM #

A VGA Screen would have been nice.

RE: New T5 Pic
tfftruoa @ 8/28/2004 8:25:16 PM #
There's no wifi icon on the status bar. In fact, the status bar is identicle to the T3 status bar. If bluetooth deserves an icon, wifi certainly does. Either bad photoshop work, an oversight on PalmOnes part, or the integration of all wireless networks into one status bar icon. I'd like it to be the third one, but the first one seems more likely. The picture is pretty low rez, but I think I can make out the ">" from the bluetooth icon on one of the icons.

Sharp Wizard-->Handspring Visor "Deluxe"-->Sony Clie SJ30-->Palm Tungsten T3 w/ SE T68i
RE: New T5 Pic
hkklife @ 8/28/2004 9:24:48 PM #
Perhaps it'll have a "wireless" icon replacing BT icon on the status bar? From there you could choose to jump onto any available network, disable/enable the wireless modes or go into Prefs for each protocol?

For the record, I will say that the T|C, Treo 600 & Zire 72 button layouts are the best of all modern OS5 era Palms. The T3 and the mono Zires are the worst.

I'd have no issues with a C-style pad. If anything it'll help people make the connection that this is the "real" successor to the T3 and the T|c. If the T|C is going to be "refreshed" with new OS & packaging, then this will unite the T|C2 & T5 pretty effectively.



RE: New T5 Pic
Gekko @ 8/28/2004 9:39:38 PM #
RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 8/28/2004 9:49:25 PM #
I must admit whoever got this pic is knows his stuff, but it looks like some cheap peace equipment(the unit not the picture)

RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 8/28/2004 11:00:59 PM #
Edit to my last post thought the shadow was part of the image, my bad, it doesn't look bad they might want to improve the look. To me it looks like a Tungsten C(or W) without the keyboard

RE: New T5 Pic
LiveFaith @ 8/28/2004 11:39:52 PM #
Gekko,

HOLY TUNGSTEN CV!!! This is it. PalmOne aughtta be sending royalties at any time. Then again, only 82 million posts on PIC begging a model exactly like this.

Man, I had forgotten all about making that CV. I can't believe you all remembered. Geeesh, how bad do you all want a tablet, dual-wireless, Hi-rez P1 device?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: New T5 Pic
edeab220 @ 8/29/2004 12:01:27 AM #
Hey LiveFaith,

Did you notice the similarity in just the naming of the T|T5 and your T|CV? heheh, not sure if it was intentional on your part but it just seems weird...

If you don't see it, V means 5, so you named your "fictional" T|C the T|C5...all palmOne did was take your idea and make it the T|T5 :p.

----------
Technology Reporter at www.dailygadget.com

RE: New T5 Pic
Foo Fighter @ 8/29/2004 12:07:03 AM #
You guys are talking about this as if it were real. It's a hoax for crying out loud!!! Are you all daft?

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
RE: New T5 Pic
LiveFaith @ 8/29/2004 12:09:38 AM #
Edeab,
Ker-ching!!! Now the check$ will be in the mail. Pretty strange.

Actually "Foo" is probably correct. The thing wreaks of a hoax. Sure got some traffic to the site tho.

Lo-rez pic, dark colors, looks like a collection from the P1 parts bin & most notably, the full pic shows some problems: #1 P1 logo has some spotties #2 Midway down the color/contrast seems to "break" on the case, probably from a cut/paste. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks too ugly for PalmOne's flagship and the logo seems oversized.

Let's see if dude can blow the dust off his 1 megapix camera or not? :-)

BTW, you can count on the Treo 800g: She's 4 real so who needs the T5?
http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: New T5 Pic
edeab220 @ 8/29/2004 12:11:15 AM #
Yo Foo Fighter,

I personally believe it's real, and I won't change my opinion unless I've been "officially" proven wrong :p. I've proved my belief in a thread over in PIC's palmOne forum...go and check out my post.

Of course...I want a Treo 650 too :p.

----------
Technology Reporter at www.dailygadget.com

RE: New T5 Pic
vesther @ 8/29/2004 12:25:44 AM #
IMO The design of the TT5 is somewhat out of place--should use a Zire 72's button layout, or probably a new button layout like this:

Calendar|Preferences|D-Pad with Button|Tasks|Notes
Contacts|Screen Orientation|D-Pad with Button|Active Input|Calc

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

RE: New T5 Pic
LiveFaith @ 8/29/2004 1:38:43 AM #
Although ... the angle of the photo looks typical of a real shot and makes photo-chopping really hard?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: New T5 Pic
LiveFaith @ 8/29/2004 5:13:53 PM #
Foo,

Are you ready to admit defeat on this one yet? I am. Too many angled shots prove the guy was hold ing something?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: New T5 Pic
Foo Fighter @ 8/29/2004 7:32:00 PM #
Hell no. It will take more than a low-quality image to prove the legitimacy of this device to me. Camera angles prove NOTHING it could easily be homemade mockup. As I said earlier, if this is legitimate..why has the author not released more images, taken with a REAL digital camera? Answer: Because a better, higher-res image would reveal it a fake. And one very good reason why this MUST be a fake: why would PalmOne literally take a T|C and T3 and fuse it together??? Are we to believe that the number one handheld maker can't design a handheld from scratch, as they ALWAYS done before?

There are also a number of visual artifacts in that image which cast doubt on its authenticity, such as...

http://www.pocketfactory.com/images/DSC00070.jpg



-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: New T5 Pic
Gekko @ 8/29/2004 8:19:21 PM #

The "Stange Notch" is the power indicator a la the T3, Sherlock.

RE: New T5 Pic
hyperdaz @ 8/29/2004 8:46:03 PM #
I personally believe this to be FAKE....

If you zoom the picture up 800% I can see on the bottom left hand corner a rather horrid blur where the picture has been doctored in order to join units..

Wishful thinking from a lot of people...

I'll wait untill its in stores before IT becomes real...



RE: New T5 Pic
hyperdaz @ 8/29/2004 9:02:18 PM #
hey this is interesting too..

I just took at photo of my TT at 1mb guess what it lines up perfectly with DSC00070.jpg if I reduce the picture down to 25% of its original size....

theres not a mm in it... :) maybe I was lucky...



RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 8/29/2004 10:53:00 PM #
It looks like a fake zoom in and compare the 2 sides of the screen and that the screen is weirdly made (two sides have a \/ pattern to it)

And the left side is (my left looking at the pic) not straight.


Plus the digital silk screen area is not alligned with the rest of the screen, you can see the left side(my left looking at the image) has white under the silkscreen bar, and on the other side it doesn't have that white area.

And the screen is too clear compared to the rest of the image. And since when does palm put a colour logo on, it's always white (or one solid colour that doesn't stick out) and the guy who posted this is reluctant to give information about taking days to respond to the post.


RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 8/29/2004 11:01:20 PM #
Forgot to mention you can see a line on the left side of the screen (my left looking at the pic) it looks like a split.

In my personal opinion, it's a very good hoax
hkklife @ 8/30/2004 9:38:15 AM #
I've been closely monitoring this thread and the various ones on Brighthand & 1src the past couple of days. While I originally thought the shot was legit, I can now pretty safely say it's an outright fake ( a Clie photo of a Photoshopped printout) At best case, it's a genuine but very early pre-production model from China.

First of all, the unit breaks no new styling ground. I'd have expected at least a new case shape if the slider is gone that suits a sled formfactor better (think wider on the bottom ala Palm V/m5xx) and a different button layout. I truly expected to see the Zire 72's buttons on the T4/T5. I also do not believe the dual wireless spec either. My $'s still on dual SDIO slots + P1 wi-fi SDIO card, regardless if there's a slider on the new device or not. Finally, it's interesting how no additional pics from any further angles were ever posted and then that one unit conveniently disappeared when the questions really started flying on the 1sec thread.

It's actually entirely possible that we will just see one or two refreshed OS5 models this fall and something like this (tablet-style T5 with dual wireless) simply won't be ready in time for fall '04 and will be launched in spring '05 along with the T|E2. The E2's specs seem rather underwhelming for any price point above $200 in spring '05 as well.

More so than ANYTHING, it's that hideously ugly PalmOne logo. I hate their new colors, btw, but no one would be stupid enough to paste them in color all over their latest flagship model...especially one called their "last chance" model to make headway against PPC and Smartphones. I expect the silkscreened monochrome PalmOne logo to carry on like it has from the new Zires & Treo to the rest of the lineup but not so garishly.

P.S. Another theory:

There was a lot of buzz from China and elsewhere shortly after the T3's launch last fall. That's when I started seeing the T4 specs that were rumored until recently (slider, UC, OS6, dual SDIO). It's entirely possible that that model was shelved at the 11th hour b/c it the online buzz convinced them it was just a moderate step forward from the existing T3. Work could have begun later than usual on a T5 model to replace it with no hope of meeting a fall '04 retail target. So maybe PalmOne'll try to limp on this fall with only a new Treo and the refreshed T|C pre-loaded with OS6?


RE: New T5 Pic
Hustleman @ 8/30/2004 10:37:21 AM #
LMAO...Why does EVERYTHING new and unconfirmed have to be a fake? Granted, noone has anything concrete about this purported device, but all this talk of faked images makes
me sick. Thats the same thing the pundits had to say about the T|2, T|3, etc...They ALL turned out to be real!!!
RE: New T5 Pic
amike @ 8/30/2004 11:57:44 AM #
... because photo-fakes remain possible ! Remember all these photos of some fantastic treos : with screen 480*320, without keyboard or sliding keyboard, without antenna, etc...



RE: New T5 Pic
Admin @ 8/30/2004 1:12:27 PM #
I'm convinced its not real, there is nothing in that thread that lends the picture or the poster any credibility.
RE: New T5 Pic
hkklife @ 8/30/2004 1:29:27 PM #
Agreed. I give the words of klw/sleuth about 1000x more credit than a newly-registered account on 1src claiming to have "classified" info. We DID have a "PalmInsider" here a year or two ago who leaked some good T|T/Oslo info, IIRC but we haven't heard from that individual in ages.

I am honestly kind of dismayed when the leaked pics/info of the new Treo (the day before the T5 "info" hit) just happened to get lost in all of the hoopla. I am sure that when the whistle's been blown on the T5 some dialog will return to the Treo 650.

RE: New T5 Pic
palmhiker @ 8/30/2004 1:31:30 PM #
Mike Cane Wrote: "Good God! Tell me it ain't so! That joypad is TOO SMALL!!!"

FWIW, Mike, I thought the same thing before I got my T-C recently, but after getting used to it, I believe this arrangement (and size) are a very workable balance between functionality and space.

Regarding the legitimacy of the pictures - A poster at 1src supposedly saw something in the image file that indicated the pictures had been taken with a Clie, which would indicate a wee bit of legitimacy...

RE: New T5 Pic
LiveFaith @ 8/30/2004 2:37:12 PM #
Admin,

Everything else looks cheesy except for ONE thing. All the shots have "little" angles in the perspective. That makes photoshopping a lot > difficult. Too much work imo.
As boring as this is, I hope it's a hoax.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: New T5 Pic
Foo Fighter @ 8/30/2004 3:25:10 PM #
Quote: "I'm convinced its not real, there is nothing in that thread that lends the picture or the poster any credibility."

Thank God I'm not the only one around here with Common Sense.

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: New T5 Pic
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 4:39:37 PM #
>>>FWIW, Mike, I thought the same thing before I got my T-C recently, but after getting used to it, I believe this arrangement (and size) are a very workable balance between functionality and space.

Nah. I just fondled a TC today to try out that dinky joypad. Too small, too stiff, and the circle is too SHARP! ow!

RE: New T5 Pic
feranick @ 8/30/2004 5:11:50 PM #
As a long time user of the TC I must say the round pad works very well. The only annoying shortcoming is the central button, too small to push without pushing the pad itself. I'd like to have it with the same design, just a big bigger.

Nick

RE: New T5 Pic
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 7:24:19 PM #
The original T and it's cousin(?) T2 were the best joypad size, I think. Same with their buttons and arrangements. None of this weird oval with surrounding swirl nonsense..

RE: New T5 Pic
hkklife @ 8/30/2004 7:41:25 PM #
For ME, owner of very thick, fat, short thumbs, the best possible button arrangement would be a classic Nintendo-style d-pad or Playstation d-pad arrangement without a center button. I always end up either pushing the center button when trying to go up or down or end up going up or down when trying to push and hold the center button. it's just not elegant enough for those with pudgy, stocky thumbs like myself.

That said, I like the Treo 600's layout best of all. I am sure Hawkins had something to do with that design and I'd like to see it eventually become standardized across the P1 line. A surprsingly decent 5-way navigator is found on the Zire 31, for what it's worth.



RE: New T5 Pic
Foo Fighter @ 8/30/2004 10:06:44 PM #
>> "The original T and it's cousin(?) T2 were the best joypad size"

Not to mention the best looking case. I greatly miss the old Graphite colored aluminum shell of the original T. :-(

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: New T5 Pic
sam_in_silver @ 8/31/2004 11:59:43 AM #
This url: http://www.palmblvd.com/articles/2004/8/2004-8-30-Internet-Breeds-Cobalt.html has another pic of the "T5", with little extra data.

If the slider goes, and if they bring back single stroke characters, then I am interested.

Simon

RE: New T5 Pic
eston @ 8/31/2004 12:58:05 PM #
You *can* bring back single stroke characters by copying the Graffiti Libraries to an SD card, and then copying the files from the SD to RAM on the T|T3.

I'm much happier that I have Graffiti 1 again.

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

RE: New T5 Pic
hkklife @ 8/31/2004 4:24:57 PM #
The T|T's Graffiti 1 libraries are shaky at best on my T3, especially when in 320*480 or in landscape mode. Any further OS revisions are likely to totally break the ability to put G1 back on any future Tungstens. Just imagine if we ever have a VGA screen to deal with! Instead of telling people to go mucking around in legally grey areas with old G1 libraries, using Filez etc, P1 needs to just get their act together and and have G1 & G2 user-switchable on future units. Or, as I've been suggesting for two years now, offer G2 as the default method but have a $20 downloadable from Xerox G1 "plugin" that is officially supported etc (like Tealscript but an actual part of the OS). Same thing Microsoft does with mp3 encoding & DVD decoding for WMP.



RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 9/1/2004 10:24:30 AM #
RE: New T5 Pic -- FAKE!!!
mikecane @ 9/1/2004 6:07:27 PM #
>>>It's fake

That's actually a RELIEF!! I didn't like those teeny buttons and tiny joypad!

But what is this someone else has said about NO Cobalt units until **2005**?!!? Is palmOne fekkin NUTS?!! (Why do I even bother to ask...?)

RE: New T5 Pic
hussain @ 9/2/2004 11:10:57 AM #
I think they'd be crazy not to put OS Cobalt(6) in by this year, I doubt there even going to go bring Palm OS Garnet (to be more specific Palm OS 5.4) in the market, I think that Palm OS Garnet is more of a major update for those who have a PDA with flash ROM and as far as I know it'll still have Palm OS Cobalt(from the Rumors)

Better Tungsten B rather Tungsten T5

vesther @ 8/29/2004 12:19:26 AM #
If T stands for Transformational, then I think there should be a better name for this oh-so-called Tungsten T5--The Tungsten B, which B means "Bluetooth-Ready".

Therefore, naming this the Tungsten T5 is senseless since there is word that there could be no more slider, so because this handheld will apparently sport Bluetooth all the way, I'd rather call it Tungsten B, with B standing for "Bluetooth Ready".

Is there a good reason why this slider-less Tungsten T deserves the name Tungsten T? Is it because of the Screen? I thought that the T (Transformational) refers to the slider design which hides the graffiti/active input area.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

Built in WiFi.

T. @ 8/30/2004 3:29:57 PM #
Yes, everyone wants built in WiFi.

Just tell em if I should cancel my WiFi SD Card order for my T3.

RE: Built in WiFi.
mikecane @ 8/30/2004 7:25:42 PM #
Funniest post of the lot.

Of course you can't cancel it.

They want ALL of your money!

T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more

ardiri @ 8/31/2004 10:28:09 AM #
there are two devices planned for release soon.

the first is known as the Treo Ace and the second is known as Agnus or Angus (i dont remember which codename it was). while i have not seen the devices; or have received information direct from palmone (ie: no NDA issues here) - i can definately speculate that the T|T5 (Agnus?) does not have OS6; it is just a replacement for the T|T3. so, sorry guys. no OS6 yet.

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
ardiri @ 8/31/2004 11:34:09 AM #
http://www.nexave.de/img/621.jpg">

take a look, closely at the "photo" - then, look at the simulated picture next to it. now, in my eyes, that looks like the status bar from a Tungsten|T3 = OS 5.3+, the simulated picture is using a status bar from OS6. the photo obviously shows an OS5 based device :)

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
ardiri @ 8/31/2004 11:38:13 AM #
for what it is worth; nothing is official yet.

treocentral has some good coverage of the new Treo, and nexave seem to have gotten some inside pictures of the new Tungsten. take everything like this with a grain of salt. pre-production units have been created and then the product has been removed in the past. the best option is to wait and see.

the best example of this was the color handera 330 - it did exist; but, never made it. why? who knows. if the rumors are true, i think the new Treo is a great addition; but, the new Tungsten wont really fill the void required - even though many hate that damn slider.

everything is a rumor until it hits the shelves *g*

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
Foo Fighter @ 8/31/2004 12:18:45 PM #
>> "why? who knows."

Because Handera didn't have the buying power to gain support from contract manufacturers in order to build their color handheld.

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
Foo Fighter @ 8/31/2004 12:20:44 PM #
By the way Aaron, thanks for shedding some light on this discussion. And thanks for ruining my day with the depressing news that this leaked photo may in fact be the real T5. ;-)

*Sigh*...as bland and unexciting as this device is, it may end up being my next handheld simply because I can't hold out any longer for a much coveted "tablet" style Palm with WiFi. I have been without a PalmOS device since the beginning of this year. Needless to say, I'm suffering withdrawal pains.

Thanks.

-------------------------------
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
hyperdaz @ 8/31/2004 2:05:28 PM #
ardiri @ 8/31/2004 10:28:09 AM

my question is why no OS6???

How long have they been creating this beast... how long does any of this stuff need... Its all madness....

I wonder in TEN years time will my TT still work and be in my pocket????

My M505 still works fine... saying that I have an original IBM workpad I could get working again :)



RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
LiveFaith @ 8/31/2004 3:45:54 PM #
hyperdaz,
You can't keep a stock price moving on the old product in your pocket.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
hyperdaz @ 8/31/2004 7:38:23 PM #
LiveFaith

I dont have to I am the consumer...

I was just merly wondering on how I would feel about my TT in ten years time.. me workpad is now 7 years old and it feels like a fosil... psion5 from hardware user persective still feels good... lol

I went out n bought a psion5 400 month or so later was given Workpad smaller and keyboardless feeling more like eletronic papper pad etc and I am still using palm hmmm

and ten years from now... id wanna still be using simple electronic paper (maybe)...

2014 not far away :)



Tungsten Angus and Treo 600 specs!!!!!!!!!!
gfunkmagic @ 9/1/2004 3:48:46 AM #
Okay, some one posted this info over at Treocentral which seems to corroborate with ardiri's info and the leaks initially provided by Nexave.de:

"There are two new palmOne units coming this fall -- that's it through the end of the year as palmOne told a group in June. There will be NO OS 6 units before January.

First: palmOne Treo "Ace" - It's pretty much as "outted" here already. No flash for the camera (that's a fact btw). EDGE RX/TX and CDMA 1X Dual Band units, Bluetooth 1.1 (modem, obex, headset and car kit functions cited) 312mHZ Intel ARM processor, Blazer 4.0 Browser, Versa Mail 3.0.

Second: palmOne Tungsten "Angus" - Looks much like the Tungsten E. Runs OS 5.4 (NOT Cobalt, none until after the first of the year in OS 6). 320 x 480 TFT 16-bit screen, 256 MB internal flash dive, 32 MB SDRAM, 1020 mAH Li-ion non-removable battery, Bluetooth, SD slot, 5-Way nav and the yet to be leaked Athena Connector (replacing the Universal Connector). NO microphone, LED or WiFi! Basicly it's the Tungsten E's big brother. It will come with the Blazer 4.0 Browser and Versa Mail 2.7 though.

These are the facts for the fall -- that's it at this point on the roadmap."

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=56948

Basically, the Angus (who thinks these names up?) sounds like an updated TE2 than anything else. The lack of wifi would be disappointing but would fall line with PalmOne history of underwhelmingness...*sigh* Also, no Cobalt until 2005 is also pretty grim news imo, especially with sooo many VGA WM2003SE devices being released now...



I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

Tungsten Angus and Treo 650/ACE/Rowdy specs!!!!!!!!!!
gfunkmagic @ 9/1/2004 3:55:13 AM #
Oops, that should have read Treo 650/Ace/Rowdy, not t600! ;)

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
ardiri @ 9/1/2004 4:42:52 AM #
    my question is why no OS6???

this is simple to answer.

PalmSource own OS6; and, since they dont make any devices - its not their concern about getting it out as soon as it is ready. the issue at hand is that there is no licensee who is willing to step up and be the first to license it (is it more expensive?). many of us thought that sony would be one of the first to use it - where their focus is on multi-media and OS6 is rich in multi-media functionality; palmOne is struggling to survive - so, its revamp a few existing models to make the investors happy.

the word going around is that unless PalmSource gets an OS6 licensee soon - they'll also be facing the "unknown" as to where they stand in the market. one reason why it hasn't been licensed is the possibility that it isn't ready yet. i just read on the OS6 discussion forum that cobalt doesn't support landscape modes yet (i would think this would be a requirement).

so, it is possible it is still in development; but, developers can start working with it now - they may just need to finalize some fine tuning. keep in mind it is a new kernel and architecture. as a developer, i am quite happy with OS5 tho :) OS6 doesn't provide anything useful to me as a developer in the realms i work in.

    And thanks for ruining my day with the depressing news that this leaked photo may in fact be the real T5.

sorry :)

    who thinks these names up

i dunno :) but, you can check out the codenames used by most palm devices at the following site. some of them are pretty funny when you think about it.

http://homepage.mac.com/alvinmok/palm/codenames.html

    My M505 still works fine

my Pilot 1000 still works too - after all this time (PalmOS 1.0) - it is formed like a little brick tho *g*

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php
No Lisencees for Cobalt yet?!
gfunkmagic @ 9/1/2004 5:14:35 AM #
>>>>>>the word going around is that unless PalmSource gets an OS6 licensee soon - they'll also be facing the "unknown" as to where they stand in the market...

That is certainly depressing news if PalmSource has not actually even gotten a lisencee for Cobalt yet! :( Ugh...boy do I miss Sony. Instead of wondering if Sony will be releasing the next Cobalt UX or TH, we've been reduced to hoping for the Angus from P1. -_- Boy, is that depressing...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
ardiri @ 9/1/2004 7:20:44 AM #
    That is certainly depressing news if PalmSource has not actually even gotten a lisencee for Cobalt yet!

well, its important to realize that they may have some; but, its not officially announced anywhere (so, to us = no licensee). there could be a number of issues with licensing OS6. the licensing costs could be higher than OS5 for example right off the bat; if licensee's cannot see a true benefit to move to OS6 from OS5 then they probably wont make the move.

i am sure the licensee's are tinkering with it, but - are yet to decide what they want to do with the OS itself and how to integrate it best with their existing product lines. you also know that companies like palmone dont like to announce or see rumors about new devices (ie: upcoming Treo), as this hurts the existing sales channels and partnerships.

on the front page of PIC, there was a new mention of Treo 600 in the wild - i wonder how they feel if there is discussion about the "next" treo. i wouldn't want to sign a contract with "old" stuff :) rumors are both good and bad - hence, why you should take everything with a grain of salt. right now? you have to stick with the device(s) you have.

if your holding off for that next PDA - you might as well be holding off forever. when the new device does come out, you'll end up waiting for the one after it. its all relative.

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
mikecane @ 9/1/2004 6:10:08 PM #
>>>i just read on the OS6 discussion forum that cobalt doesn't support landscape modes yet (i would think this would be a requirement).

Wait a minute. This is news to you NOW?!!? This has been (BAD!) news since Cobalt was bloody announced!! Why do you think we've (me, foo, maybe abosco too) been down on it? That and its LACK OF FILESYSTEM are just unbelievable... well, there's also the damned missing icon in the PalmBar to bring up the Command Bar (have to raise the Soft G area *first* -- dumbdumbdumb!!!).

Ben Combee, r u reading this?!

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
ardiri @ 9/1/2004 6:14:52 PM #
    Wait a minute. This is news to you NOW?!!?

who said it was news to me? all i was stating was that even now, after its supposed to be completed; discussion about lacking features still exist. landscape support *exists* in already shipping devices (ux50, tapwave et al).

    FILESYSTEM

its been mentioned before; and, it'll be mentioned again. you dont need a stupid bloody filesystem. thats what external media cards are for. you dont see your PC having a file system in its "ram" do you? keep in mind, its not a little HDD in there, it is still a memory chip.

---
Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php
RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
Winter_ @ 9/2/2004 1:17:00 PM #
I'm sorry, but I don't see that supposed point of "it's not a disk, it's a chip, so you don't need filesystem". :P

Do I really need to provide counter-examples?

(...hey, even my 10 years old HP48 calculator has a filesystem!! :P)

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
Patrick @ 9/2/2004 6:09:33 PM #
Yes, you do need a stupid bloody file system for RAM. You're right, the RAM in a PC doesn't have it, but so what? The two are used in totally different ways. The hard drive on a PC is always present, unlike the SD card. If you do use the SD card like this, then you've given up on one of the easiest and most sensible ways of bringing [i]content[/i] (not programs) into your device. On a PC you have other kinds of devices (CDs, Flash Drives, Floppy Disks, Zip Drives) that have removable media that can bring content. If you dedicate your SD card to being "always in" your PC, what brings it content that is convenient and always available?

When you plug in the new WiFi SDIO card, for example, how can I download a new MP3 file as I browse the web? Where would it go?


Sometimes a filesystem CAN'T help!
mikecane @ 9/2/2004 6:18:52 PM #
Sometimes even a filesystem won't help!

Had a TXT file on the SD I've been using with that garbage PPC. I recall someone telling me that D2G will now read TXT files. Great! I can liberate that file from the PPC. Have D2G open it and beam it to my CLIE. Fat bloody chance! D2G only sees files it has moved to SD. And using Filez (that's where the "filesystem" part of this comes in), trying to move the TXT file to RAM gives a No-No dialog. (Hmmm... would it do so on a Zod? And, hmmm, now I recall someone saying a UX CLIE could do TXT in RAM...)

Has ANYONE tried this sort of thing -- and succeeded?

RE: T|T5 and OS6 = rumor, nothing more
Winter_ @ 9/3/2004 6:04:58 AM #
Mikecane, in fact when I ask about a filesystem I do so in part because that way apps would have no excuse to play silly games like "I will open THIS file on the card but not on RAM, and THAT file on RAM but not on the card".

In the same way, the capability to use directories is kind of a pro feature in most programs I've seen. It's SO stupid.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for some way to fill up the >20 free Mb in my T3 internal RAM. Patrick is right; I can't imagine of any more useful apps than those I already have, but I have CONTENT (JPGs, Word docs, HTML, whatever!!) that could go to those 20 MB withouth making me shuffle SD cards looking for some 100 free KB.

(And surely the T3's battery would last longer without the card...)

It's a hoax!

tiger_bb @ 9/1/2004 2:11:22 AM #
Unfortunately, it's a hoax! I think people should stop here.

Read this:
http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=437



RE: It's a hoax!
hkklife @ 9/1/2004 2:08:42 PM #
Just as I predicted. That hideous colored PalmOne logo gave it away completely. I am still sticking to my guns that the T4/T5 will be slightly upgraded T3 that will retain the slider and omit wi-fi.

Btw, wouldn't a locking slider be a good compromise? Something along the lines of the Samsung Matrix phone? If you had to somehow actuate a button to disengage the slider lock to close the unit, additional mechanical cost & complexity would be added but it WOULD pretty much satisfy the wants of both sides (the pro slider & anti-slider camps).

Now that the furor over the T5 has subsided, I predict it'll be another month until we start seeing some "real" leaks. Well, let's just go back to talking about the Treo Ace/650 for the next few weeks as that looks to be a very real, tangible product that we can speculate on.



The Temptation of the Darkside

lab_monkee_see_all @ 9/1/2004 11:23:42 AM #
Please Help Me......

I once again was tempted to buy the HP 6315. I stopped by today at CompUSA, and I was able to talk the sales guy in letting me install my SIM card into a demo 6315. It worked. I was able to test out all three wireless options. Neat. I was able to pair it with my JABRA BT earphone and make a call.

I then accessed the internet via GPRS, and then via WiFi. I told the guy I wanted one. As he and the manager looked for a unit under the displays, I said to myself...WAIT....I then told the salesguy I wanted to think about it just a little bit more.....and I hurriedly walked out.

The gravitational pull of the Darkside is great, but the only thing holding me back is......

1. The various palm software I've purchased to run my life
2. The stability of the palm OS
3. The speed of the palm OS
4. The thought that PALMONE will one day soon release a unit to
compete directly with the 6315. And since the 6315 is the
first of it's kind, I'm sure there is a wall of competitors
just holding back to release theirs.

Thanks, I just had to get the thoughts out of my head. Ponder, Ponder, Ponder.....sigh.....

Has anyone else in the rebel force played with the 6315? What do you think? Has it too tempted you?

Have you given in and why?

RE: The Temptation of the Darkside
Gekko @ 9/1/2004 11:28:15 AM #

monkee - the 6315 is nice but too big for a phone. i'd hold off to make a decision until the new Treo comes out given your points listed. take a step back, take a deep breath, exhale, and relax.

RE: The Temptation of the Darkside
mikecane @ 9/1/2004 6:14:10 PM #
HAHAHAHAHA!!! You fool!! I was just at CUSA and played with that beast. Dropped down the Start menu, hit Internet Explorer and got a nice error msg that I photographed and which will be in my upcoming PIC article.

FOOLS!!! PPC is GARBAGE!! Don't give in to the whispers of Satan! (Satan, BillG, SteveB, all the same damned thing...)

Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question

Gekko @ 9/1/2004 1:39:40 PM #
I understand that Cobalt OS6 will offer built-in:

1. Unlimited Size Memos.
2. Encrypted PIM Security.

Does anyone know if it will offer an unlimited (or larger) size CLIPBOARD?



RE: Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question
mikecane @ 9/1/2004 6:15:52 PM #
Hey, will the next rev of OS*5* increase Clipboard size?! Imagine that T3 with 64K Memos and that pathetic original Clipboard size. Amazing that these people can draw their paychecks without shame!!!

RE: Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question
LiveFaith @ 9/1/2004 10:04:45 PM #
I've heard that humans have reached the maximum possible limit for a clipboard size on Palm OS. Some scientists think more is impossible. This must be the reason.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question
just_little_me @ 9/2/2004 5:24:41 AM #
I use Clip PRO from www.pocketscience.com.au - it gives you 10 clipboards and they are all massive - 32K or something. Plus lots of useful tools etc.


JLM.

RE: Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question
palmhiker @ 9/2/2004 12:42:12 PM #
Or....you could use CutPaste5, a nifty and free little preference utility that gets around this problem quite nicely.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J58862339

RE: Colbalt CLIPBOARD Size Question
mikecane @ 9/2/2004 6:24:02 PM #
Free is always better. (Believe me, seeing NYC turned into a virtual Police State with privatized streets for the acolytes of George, I'm missing FREEdom a lot this week!)

it will be called the T5

crimewave @ 9/4/2004 3:33:14 PM #
I found it in my store's inventory under development. The cost will be $399.99. No specs yet though.

Computers don't make mistakes, people do.

Tungsten T5 Specs

PalmOne Guru @ 9/10/2004 11:01:48 AM #
Screen: 320x$80
CPU: 416Mhz Xscale
Memory 256Mb, 215MB avalible
Form Factor: Tungsten E
OS: 5.4
Wireless Capabilities: Bluetooth Built in
New File Transfer capabilities. Allow you to sync Files and Folders with your desktop.
Drive Mode allows use as a flash drive.

RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
Gekko @ 9/10/2004 11:12:23 AM #

NO BUILT-IN WI-FI????? Come on, Palm1. We're not asking for much here. Bastards.

RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
Gekko @ 9/10/2004 11:15:01 AM #
Screen: 320x$80
CPU: 416Mhz Xscale
Memory 256Mb, 215MB avalible
Form Factor: Tungsten E
OS: 5.4
Wireless Capabilities: Bluetooth Built in
New File Transfer capabilities. Allow you to sync Files and Folders with your desktop.
Drive Mode allows use as a flash drive.


WHAT KIND OF UPGRADE OVER MY T3 IS THIS??????????

RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
PalmOne Guru @ 9/10/2004 11:32:46 AM #
LOL you guys will belive any BS specs LOL :P
RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
Gekko @ 9/10/2004 3:10:23 PM #
>"LOL you guys will belive any BS specs LOL :P"

hey jackazz, get a life loser.


RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
Gekko @ 9/10/2004 3:10:23 PM #
>"LOL you guys will belive any BS specs LOL :P"

hey jackazz, get a life loser.


RE: Tungsten T5 Specs
hussain @ 9/10/2004 9:08:17 PM #
XScale proccessor is much faster than it's predessor (even thought it may be the same Mhz it is much faster, it could be up to 35% faster and the Xscale prossesor uses less batteries

And there are too many rumors going around with the T5, I can't believe any of them til I see the official specs for it, and all of these rumors conflict with each other

Whatever

mschmalenbach @ 9/10/2004 3:52:43 PM #
What ever the new device is called, what ever it's hardware spec is, I just want a few things out of it:

1 - To be able to manage my contacts for sales & networking purposes
2 - To be able to manage my schedule, itinerary and link it with my contacts database
3 - To make notes - about meetings, ideas, anything really
4 - To create and edit Word, Excel and PowerPoint compatible files - some big ones (I have files over 20Mb in size on my desk top) - and to be 100% compatible with the files I have on my desktop - oh yeah, and for the device to be quicker than me
5 - To pick up and send emails, with attachments of any kind
6 - And to browse the 'net - but only every now and then.
7 - Good battery life
8 - Easy sync and connection to my desktop-based data

What ever the technical spec I'd like the option to play some MP3s as well as the odd game - when you're on the road a lot it's nice to have some entertainment.

It needs to be small and light enough to fit in my jacket pocket so I always have it with me.

I'm not bothered about it being a phone - I already have one of those - it looks like a phone, feels like a phone and talks like a phone, though it would be nice (via blue tooth?) to have my new Palm initiate a call for me on my mobile phone for me.

It goes without saying that the screen needs to be bright and crisp.

I live in the UK, but I'd like to pay US prices. (I don't want much do I?!)

So I don't care about what processor it is, or how mach RAM there is, whether it's static or FLASH, or whether it will run OS6. I just want to be able to the stuff I've listed - without giving it too much thought.

And before I get flamed I was once an engineer - worked on ARM and memory products for a semiconductor company, and wrote software tools for their customers - I have a business to run but I know geek stuff too - so the ability to upload new programmes, and try new developments, is also on my list.

What's my point?

My point is this - let's worry about outcomes, about what we want to do with these things to make life more fun/easier etc, and let that drive the technical specs. I don't care if something is 10 grammes heavier - I won't really notice it, but if it's WIFI drains my battery all the time I will get annoyed!

Martin Schmalenbach
Director
Potential Energy Ltd
www.p-nrg.com

RE: Whatever
hyperdaz @ 9/11/2004 6:39:32 AM #
Martin,

You controdict yourself a lot..

"some MP3s as well as the odd game"
"I don't care about what processor it is"

"4 - To create and edit Word, Excel and PowerPoint compatible files - some big ones (I have files over 20Mb in size on my desk top) - and to be 100% compatible with the files I have on my desktop - oh yeah, and for the device to be quicker than me"

"or how mach RAM there is"

are both things not relitive to each other..????

I agree there needs to be better / radical change to how new palms manage data.. I for one have been using palms for 7 years or so and have a lot of data 1000's notepad messages 1000's sms's 1000's of contacts etc..

A number of things you want have been availible for a long time for me the TT.. bluetooth made life so much nicer... for example.. i did try and play with web content with infer-red but it was not as much fun...

"And to browse the 'net - but only every now and then"
"Easy sync and connection to my desktop-based data"
"To make notes - about meetings, ideas, anything really"
"- To be able to manage my contacts for sales & networking purposes"

"to have my new Palm initiate a call for me on my mobile phone for me"

go into contacts go into the person u want and click the quick connect button at the top and the middle.. u need to have a bluetooth phone set up etc but it works very very well.. used to use this on psion5 too but that never had bluetooth.. :)

I also dont want my palm to be like a phone... i like the fact that its made of mettle my tt has outlasted about 8 phones so far... due to them mainly being made of plastic...

some little touches would be nice you have mp3.. ogg player why not be able to set up an alarm to play ur fav mp3 etc

id love an app to manage my picture messages/ animations even short video sent via mobiles etc..

i agree that outcomes are needed it needs to be thought through and not just place in a box... spec is important though if it looks too far out of date then people just wont purchase it...

the old days of palm being on 14mhz and ppc on 133mhz or more....
it look as if your getting more for your money... from someone who has not compaired...

build quality for me is so important... its uesed 365 days and it that does take a bashing....


RE: Whatever
hyperdaz @ 9/11/2004 7:04:50 AM #
id also like sms program to manage the sms's .. not just sort by date order.. id like to add someones name to the sms message as well as link them to contacts..

search n sort from all from one number or contact name that would be useful...



Additional T5 info I found this morning.
mslevy @ 9/25/2004 10:05:44 AM #
I found this. It looks real to me what does everyone think?

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~nab101/t5upload.htm


The new T5 info
mikecane @ 9/25/2004 10:15:48 AM #
Whoa. NO cradle.

And what's this? *palmOne* finally sees the need for a FILESYSTEM?!

Hello, PalmSource! Are you listening to your top licensee?!

Can one of the new Zire owners comment on how good/bad the Media app is? It's listed here as doing video -- does the current version do that too?

The new T5 info
mslevy @ 9/25/2004 10:29:13 AM #
Ok. Found more information.. This seems more likely.

http://public.fotki.com/jonascreb/t5_pic/t5pre.html

RE: Whatever
Patrick @ 9/25/2004 3:23:12 PM #
The photos on soton.com appear real to me. Too bad.

It is clear what P1 is doing: This "internal drive" business will be a RAMDISK-like function, allowing you to set aside a portion of your RAM to be used like a second SD card. I don't think this is what Mike and I are looking for of a filesystem for internal memory. There will still be the restriction on the memory not used in the RAMDISK of only being able to hold .prc, .pdb and a few other file types.

Of course, this is made available because P1 didn't include WiFi in the T5 but wants you to shell out ANOTHER $130 (on top of the new device, a new cradle, new travel chargers, new extra or 3-in-1 stylii) to buy their WiFi card and they recognize that you can't download .zip files or .mp3 files (etc) from the Internet unless you had a RAMDISK-like capability.

So, lets try to do some back-of-the-envelope calculation for a long time owner of UC-equipped Palm's looking to upgrade to what many of us WANTED the T5 to be:

$400 Tungsten|T5
30 Cradle
30 Travel Charger
30? Vehicle Charger
40 Hard Case
20? Extra Stylii
100? Wireless Keyboard
130 WiFi Card

$780 TOTAL

Palm's revenue-creation strategy: Priceless.


RE: Whatever
mikecane @ 9/25/2004 5:15:12 PM #
Whew! Glad I don't have a UC device (well, back in those days, it was a Palm III!).

We'll have to see about whether this is all Flash or what the filesystem is like...

TEN DAYS TO GO!!!

RE: Whatever
tooele @ 9/25/2004 7:50:36 PM #
Those pictures are fake one of the pictures of the box has a TT3 on it

RE: Whatever
quadrac @ 9/27/2004 7:56:52 PM #
i really think someone should collect all of those fake pics to one web page including the real picture (when it's released...).
it will be nice to see the evolution of a FAKE and to see which of the fakes was the closest....

no cobalt, 2 types of memory
JShoo @ 9/29/2004 3:50:34 AM #
One of the most important parts of the "T5 handheld in memory" slide is footnote #1 (which unfortunately is nearly impossible to read). It apparently gives a detailed breakdown of the "256 MB non-volatile memory".

The beginning is 216 (?) MB total memory; the middle maybe saying that XX MB is for applications; the end of it seems to be saying that 14x MB of the memory is a drive, or something like that.

That is logical if the T5 runs OS5, which has a 128 MB memory limit. Since the OS can't handle the entire 256 meg of memory, they make half of the memory into an internal memory drive, something like a built in SD card.

But if the T5 had been running cobalt with the 256 MB memory limit they wouldn't have needed the long foot note. There could have been a single kind of memory, rather like the 64 MB of base memory is available to a T3 user.

Even if I'm guessing wrong, the way this device uses memory will be one of the most important things. It means the difference between innovation or the same old, same old in a new package.

T5 on monday; already on Bizrate

JShoo @ 10/2/2004 7:20:40 PM #
The T5 is already listed on Bizrate, with a one paragraph description.

The Daily Gadget reports that T5 will be released on Monday. It also says that PalmOne said one reason they stuck with Garnet was Macintosh compatibility. (Don't shoot the messenger)

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