Comments on: Apple Hints at Smartphone IP Battle to Come

In realty, very few of these things should be patentable in the first place.

The Xerox Star was demonstrated for Jobs at PARC. Jobs got GUI religion.

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/apple-officially-squashes-iphone-nano-and-mac-netbook-rumors

Maybe there's still hope for a "iPhone Shuffle": no display, and when you press the button, it calls a random contact from your address book. It's for people who like to talk, but don't care to whom. Sounds right up Mikey's alley.

Right. And then I somehow got a Fast Company writer to put together an article for me containing precisely those "misinterpretations" just to get your goat, is that it?

Like that Grand Delusion that ACCESS will still be around by the end of 2009.

Never confuse your personal neurotic pique with an ability to predict the future: your "prognostications" don't amount to anything more than childish wishing that Steve Jobs will take pity on your destitute state and give you a free toy of some sort, and that your enemies will all get run over by trucks. That's been quite clearly borne out by the outcome of my prior "Grand Delusion" that I'd still be employed by ACCESS by the end of 2008. As I am.

I suspect there's little doubt in the minds of onlookers who the delusional one here is...

No, there isn't. But for the n00bs who might be confused, let's examine your mental health file again:

http://mikecane2008.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/apple-sells-10m-iphones-psychopath-increases-meds/

Using BOLD tags won't help you with this, you pathetic second-rate coding loser.

Ryan, put me down as "hates that you can't edit postings here".

One more than webos' underlying whatever-it-is?

- http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/sony_dsc_g3_camera_has_wi_fi_and_linux

Unlike WebOS - source is available already!

Hey, good news for me! Looks like we're going to be rolling in dough at the end of the year!

Hey, speaking of dough, did you ever drum up enough cash to get your own iPhone, or are you still leaving puddles of saliva on other people's...? Go console yourself with some microwave pizza, chunky.

Not.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=3129

>>>In June 1992, [Jeff Hawkins] met future partner Donna Dubinsky for the first time and this is part of what transpired:

>>>To give her an idea of Palm's direction, Hawkins pulled out his Sony palmtop - a handheld computer that was only sold in Japan. About the size of a Walkman, it had a pen and a graphic interface; even in Japanese, it was easier to navigate than any current U.S. electronic organizers. It gave her the same tingle of excitement that she'd felt 12 years earlier at Dan Bricklin's demo of VisiCalc. "That's it!" she told Hawkins. "That's the next generation of computing. I'm sure of it!"

http://homepage3.nifty.com/Denemon/infocary.htm

They have been awarded patents for lots of gestures and for their specific implementation of multitouch on mobile devices. Also, they own all of the multitouch patents from Fingerworks.

Palm's lawyers had best have all their i's dotted and t's crossed, but it's obvious that alot of copying has gone on.

If Apple has IP which Palm has infringed upon, then they need to pay.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

Palm's most recent smartphones: (in order of most recent appearance)

-Pre: smile (January 2009)

-Treo Pro: straight (August 2008)

-Treo 800w: smile (July 2008)

-Centro: straight (September 2007)

-Treo 500: straight (September 2007)

-Treo 755p: smile (May 2007)

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

I was reading your comments - I was just being polite and didn't want to mention you by name.

However, getting back on track - I think Apple has no problem getting into a patent war with Palm - they have the cash to blow on some high powered lawyers - and can keep this tied up in the courts if they want.

Apple might just be looking at getting a licensing fee from Palm, however on the odd chance that they aren't, Palm could be revisiting old legal issues.

Before you start bring up Palm's IP regarding data synchronization and the like - recall that the Newton predated Palm.

palm's previous demonstrations of innovation for the past few years - foleo, etc. - were junk.

then they hire an apple guy and all of a sudden they crap out an iclone in record time.

if apples ip is being infringed they should sue palm!

The software had good - but underdeveloped - ideas. The hardware WAS crap.

Still, without the ex-apple people working on the Pre, Palm would have nothing right now.

Palm investors worry Apple may get touchy over Pre
By: Reuters | 22 Jan 2009 | 03:46 PM ET
Text Size

NEW YORK - By Sinead Carew

Some Palm Inc investors are worried that its highly anticipated new phone, the Pre, may face a legal challenge from Apple Inc over touch-screen technology.

Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook said on a quarterly earnings call on Wednesday that the iPhone maker would use all its weapons to fight any rivals that "ripped off" its intellectual property (IP).

"That could be a warning shot across the bow," Peter Strand, an IP specialist at law firm Shook, Hardy & Bacon said on Thursday.

Analysts said Cook's comments could mean that Apple is planning a legal case against Palm for when the Pre comes on the market in the first half of this year.

Specifically, the concern is that Apple could assert IP rights against Palm over Pre's multi-touch interface, which lets users navigate a website by pinching their fingers together or spreading them apart on the phone's screen.

The Pre, which also has a slide-out keyboard, was unveiled with much fanfare at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, more than doubling Palm's shares over about 6 days.

Palm shares were down 27 cents, or 3.4 percent, at $7.57 in afternoon trade on Nasdaq, after falling as low as $7.15 earlier in the session. Analysts said Cook's comments had weighed on the shares.

The retail price of the Pre has not been divulged.

Apple, which was careful not to mention a specific company in its comments, has been much lauded for the iPhone's multi-touch feature, launched in the summer of 2007.

"Palm is the first one that would spring to mind. You've got a new product with similar features to iPhone, and you have executives leading the charge from Apple," said Avian Securities analyst Matthew Thornton.

He was referring to Palm Executive Chairman Jon Rubinstein, who used to be a top hardware engineer at Apple. Fred Anderson, now a director at Palm, was previously Apple's chief financial officer.

Palm has a storied history in touchscreen devices. It is a pioneer of touch-controlled gadgets ranging from the Palm Pilot personal digital assistant to the Treo and Centro phones that allow consumers to manage data without using a keyboard.

"Apple was not the first to do multi-touch," Palm spokeswoman Lynn Fox said in an e-mail when asked to comment, adding that multi-touch has been around since the mid-1980s.

"Palm has been building its own intellectual property portfolio for 15 years, and we will defend it vigorously, if necessary," said Fox.

Pre, based on a new operating system from Palm, is a highly-anticipated device that analysts see as Palm's only chance of fighting back against competition from Apple and BlackBerry from Research in Motion Ltd .

"Palm, like Apple, has a rich heritage in touch technology," said JPMorgan analyst Paul Coster, adding that this may be a hotly contested area as "a lot of companies have intellectual property relating to multi-touch."

UBS analyst Maynard Um said that while Apple's comments seemed to be weighing on Palm investors' minds, they did not change his investment opinion on Palm so far.

"We don't have enough details about the technology from either Palm or Apple to tell if there is an infringement," he said. "It's a little premature to talk about because (Pre's) not even a commercial product yet."

The media always love drama like this. What they report is never what happens in phone calls between attorneys on both sides.

If Palm has patents they can make a case Apple is infringing, mutual licensing rather than a legal fight will prevail.

Apple was not the first to do multi-touch.

Yes, that's correct. However, Apple bought the company that was, which means the IP is theirs. Anybody can see Apple has patents on touchscreen gestures, including multi-touch.

I think Palm screwed up. They don't have the resources for a legal battle. Meanwhile, Apple is still making a killing during a recession.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

Geez, get a grip. Learn how the world of business works.

Jon Rubinstein is not "software people". He's an engineer/executive. Former Senior Vice-President of the iPod division. Was instrumental in pulling Apple out of the crapper '97.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Rubinstein

>Jon Rubinstein is not "software people". He's an engineer/executive. Former Senior >Vice-President of the iPod division. Was instrumental in pulling Apple out of the >crapper '97. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Rubinstein

Still, he is not a lawyer. That was my point - like everyone who reads up on this stuff, he knows what IP Apple has in their portfolio. However Apple has several billions of dollars ready to use to defend their IP while Palm barely has a pot to piss in.

>Apple will file suit within weeks.

>Let's wager, Bosco! Ten bucks!!

I'll take some of that.

Or you can't afford $10

Rubinstein knows Apple inside out and it is a real stretch to think he would knowingly invite trouble for a company that is teetering on the brink.

Well, the soda cans are Gekko's income these days. And he'll sue you for infringement, so stay near your highway underpass.

And thanks for basically saying everything I've said. But with more words. As if that helped.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/26/apple-awarded-iphone-and-multi-touch-patent/

Thanks!

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

According to Ventura Beat, an Android team member says that Apple asked Google not to use multitouch in the G1, or else. Obviously, they complied. Their alleged source said that Google had plenty of reasons:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5150354/apple-stopped-multitouch-on-android-alleged-google-source-says

As mentioned previously, Apple seems to think that they can patent a gesture which was (to the best of anyone's knowledge) described as long as a quarter of a century ago; if the actual inventor had bothered to patent it (something that would have likely been impossible to accomplish at the time), it'd be in the public domain now. The fact that some examiner agreed with them just shows that his search of the prior art was not as comprehensive as it could have been.

I don't think you'd even need a lawyer to get that one overturned. Showing up the day of the hearing with a copy of the book wherein the "pinch" was initially described would, I'd imagine, be plenty.

First, let's define "prior art". Wikipedia says:

Prior art (also known as state of the art, which also has other meanings), in most systems of patent law, constitutes all information that has been made available to the public in any form before a given date that might be relevant to a patent's claims of originality. If an invention has been described in prior art, a patent on that invention is not valid.

According to Bill Buxton, the pinch has been demonstrated before:

1983: Video Place / Video Desk (Myron Krueger)
*His use of many of the hand gestures that are now starting to emerge can be clearly seen in the following 1988 video, including using the pinch gesture to scale and translate objects: http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo

1991: Digital Desk (Pierre Wellner, Rank Xerox EuroPARC, Cambridge)
*Clearly demonstrated multi-touch concepts such as two finger scaling and translation of graphical objects, using either a pinching gesture or a finger from each hand, among other things.

1992: Starfire (Bruce Tognazinni , SUN Microsystems)
Bruce Tognazinni produced an future envisionment film, Starfire, that included a number of multi-hand, multi-finger interactions, including pinching, etc.

So, everyone still feel Apple's got an iron-clad lock on all that cool multitouch stuff...? (If Krueger had gotten a patent on the "pinch" gesture, not that he'd have gotten that by the USPTO in 1983, it'd have expired in 2000...)

Whatever, the NEXT company in line to be sued by that same entiiy is...

From the recipient's POV, who does the suing doesn't matter much (except for their deep pockets, of course).