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Comments on: Opinion: Why Sony should (Memory) Stick with the Palm OS

PalmInfocenter's frequent message board poster, The Voice of Reason, has written in with an interesting opinion piece entitled, Why Sony should (Memory) Stick with the Palm OS. Read on to here his thoughts on why Sony should plan a Clie comeback.
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Proof that crap does float to the top

mikecane @ 1/27/2005 2:54:38 PM # Q
From a psycho Comment to a psycho "article."

Surely this is a sign of the Return of Christ.

Smite him, O Lord.

RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
feranick @ 1/27/2005 4:01:34 PM # Q
Not as crappy as some recent editorials...
RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
TTrules @ 1/27/2005 5:50:10 PM # Q
Hey, I thought that was a really well done article.

One Palm to rule them all!
grapes of sourness
Strider_mt2k @ 1/27/2005 6:03:33 PM # Q
It is a good article.

And AMEN BROTHER!

I don't think Sony will give a hoot, but you do speak for alot of us Clie owners.


RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
mikecane @ 1/27/2005 8:11:56 PM # Q
Philistines.

And remember who you are backing.

RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
Wolfgard @ 1/27/2005 9:00:56 PM # Q
Great article. Sony reps, please bring back CLIEs! After all I've invested in memory stick pros, I would definately continue buying CLIEs.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330
RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
palm_pilot_guy @ 1/31/2005 12:14:35 AM # Q
Firsty, I don't like the article. Secondly, it might have something to do with the way it's written. Fourthly, you might as well create a group of points and consolidate everything into point form...

---
If one plays bad music, people don't talk; if one plays good music, people don't listen.
A year without CLIEs is like a year without sunshine
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2006 8:36:46 PM # Q
Seems like it was only yesterday...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
Simony @ 2/13/2006 9:01:17 PM # Q
Don't be a hater, Simony
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2006 9:08:20 PM # Q
Enjoy your digitizer driftin', data zappin', data manglin', SD card fryin' piece of crap Palms, Simony. Those of us with more sophisticated tastes will stay with our full-featured, high quality, reliable CLIEs.

Take care, Buddy.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Proof that crap does float to the top
Simony @ 2/13/2006 9:17:05 PM # Q
I'm very pleased with my TE2 - reasonable feature set and good quality, all for a great price.

Reply to this comment

PDA market

TwinTurbo @ 1/27/2005 2:54:08 PM # Q
I agree that Sony was in a position to establish itself as the primary leader in the PDA market. But what good is it to be the leader in a market that is declining at best and dying at worst. Let's go after a market that will net us consistently lower margins and decreased demand. No thanks.

The better scenario (as you mentioned) would be for Sony Ericsson to potentially explore using the Palm OS on a smartphone instead of Symbian. They could produce a Treo-like device but with some actual build quality and even cooler form factors. They could definitely pull this off and the Smartphone market is only beginning to heat up.

Sony Ericsson needs to keep kicking Nokia when they're down
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 8:58:44 PM # Q
I agree that Sony was in a position to establish itself as the primary leader in the PDA market. But what good is it to be the leader in a market that is declining at best and dying at worst. Let's go after a market that will net us consistently lower margins and decreased demand. No thanks.

The better scenario (as you mentioned) would be for Sony Ericsson to potentially explore using the Palm OS on a smartphone instead of Symbian. They could produce a Treo-like device but with some actual build quality and even cooler form factors. They could definitely pull this off and the Smartphone market is only beginning to heat up.

The death of the PDA market has been talked about so much that now we all believe it. In some ways, that talk (from "experts" and "analysts" contributed significantly to the decline. PDAs are admittedly a niche product, but they have the potential to be a stable, profitable niche. (MiniDisc, anyone?) The irony with the timing of Sony's retreat is that they've ALREADY done all the hard development work. They could easily release incremental upgrades to their current products and these would be eagerly snapped up by PDA users for years to come. Palm's declining quality puts Sony in an ideal position to corner the PDA market.

Selling CLIEs to desperate PalmOS users would likely also generate a lot of spin off revenue for the company as I alluded to in the opinion piece. Just because PDAs won't likely generate Playstation level sales figures (several million units per quarter) doesn't mean it's a market not worth pursuing.

The PalmOS Sony Ericsson phone is such an obvious strategy that it's surprising it wasn't given the go ahead earlier. Sony Ericsson recently thwarted Nokia's efforts to completely take over Symbian, but they really should have quietly taken out a PalmOS license last year (assuming the Sony PalmOS license isn't transferrable to Sony Ericsson).




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: PDA market
samagonistes @ 1/27/2005 11:40:52 PM # Q
Considering that PDAs are a niche market product, I'm gonna have to agree with TwinTurbo on this one. Where's the profit in being the only fish in a dwindling pond? Also, regarding CLIE sales and MS, the real numbers from flash memory cards are tied in with digital still cameras.

From a Reuters report:
"Shipments of digital cameras are expected to top 20 million units in 2005, up from 17.6 million, with revenue projected to rise to $5 billion from $4.5 billion."

From bizjournal.com (http://www.bizjournals.com/industries/high_tech/internet/2005/01/17/eastbay_story6.html)
"Sales of PDAs in 2004 are now expected to total just 10.8 million - one-third of what was originally forecast - according to IDC."

And finally from ITfacts.com
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P715
"Cameras accounted for about 60% of demand worldwide for flash memory cards in 2003, according to research firm IDC. Camera shipments are expected to increase 27% to about 55 mil this year, from 43 mil worldwide last year. By 2007, shipments are projected to reach 81 mil. The worldwide flash memory card market generated $1.7 bil in revenue in 2002, and that total increased by more than 100% last year, according to IDC estimates."

Sony saw the writing on the wall, and for once, rather than throw money at a losing proposition, they jumped ship. This isn't unusual as companies have histories of failed devices. While "death" may be an overly dramatic term to characterize the PDA market, you have to admit that it's no where near the 40-50 million unit market as projected in 2001. Even with introductions of new models with incremental changes, they would only be delaying the inevitable.


RE: PDA market
indesman @ 1/28/2005 12:10:42 AM # Q
I have to agree with this line of reasoning. Sony PDA sales are a fraction of its television sales or camcorder sales or digital still camera sales. More PDAs with memory sticks would make only the most infintesimal incremental increase in sales of other products. The other products on the other hand could make a huge impact on sales of PDAs...if anyone really wanted to buy one.

Some of us use and love our PDAs but if they were going to set the world on fire it would have happened by now. They won't go away but they've probably plateaued for the forseeable future.

RE: PDA market
RoadKnight @ 1/28/2005 1:10:33 AM # Q
While everyone here has been predicting the "death" of the PDA for years now(and indeed, some here even making a cottage industry of it), it seems as if most "enterprise" customers haven't heard the news yet and are instead, still buying PDAs in droves.

From a story on itfacts.biz:
"IDC's 2004 mobile devices end-user survey demonstrates that handhelds still dominate company mobility strategies, with over 50% of respondents indicating the PDA as the preferred mobile device as opposed to a voice-centric smart phone or a PDA with telephony capability..."

Link:http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P2037

Which isn't to say that they won't eventually get a clue, just that it will take some time. Operating within a reality-based corporate budget is much different than say, an allowance.


How much would Sony make if it kept selling CLIEs?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/28/2005 1:50:16 AM # Q
Considering that PDAs are a niche market product, I'm gonna have to agree with TwinTurbo on this one. Where's the profit in being the only fish in a dwindling pond? Also, regarding CLIE sales and MS, the real numbers from flash memory cards are tied in with digital still cameras.

Nonsense. Sony sold 1 million P800 smartphones despite the fact that they were crippled with Symbiam. Between PalmOS smartphones and PDAs, Sony could probbly generate annual sales of 3 million units. That's a lot of potential Memory Stick sales. And a lot of potential future customers for Sony's other electronics.

Assuming $100 profit per unit -> $300 million net, then subtract development, support + marketing costs -> seems they should be able to make a profit...


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: PDA market
TwinTurbo @ 1/28/2005 12:06:44 PM # Q
[i]Nonsense. Sony sold 1 million P800 smartphones despite the fact that they were crippled with Symbiam.[/i]

Sony Ericsson is successfully selling smartphones because they know how to capitalize on a sector with high demand and growth potential. I'm using one right now (s700i). I would hardly call it crippled by Symbian. And I don't think it would be any better with Palm OS or Windows Mobile or any other operating system. I really like this phone so far.

As for predicting the death of the PDA market, there is nothing to predict. It has been in a steady state of decline for over 8 quarters. Worldwide sales have slowed since early 2003. Welcome to 2005. Give credit to Sony for figuring it out early.

Sony Ericsson != Sony
Xian @ 1/28/2005 5:05:42 PM # Q
Sony Ericsson is a joint venture of Ericsson and Sony, not a fiefdom under Sony Corp itself. They have their own CEO and HQ. Whilst some of their designs (P-series and S-series) use MemStick Duos, they're not a business unit that Sony Corp can dictate to.
PalmOS vs. Symbian: NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 1:06:54 AM # Q
Sony Ericsson is successfully selling smartphones because they know how to capitalize on a sector with high demand and growth potential. I'm using one right now (s700i). I would hardly call it crippled by Symbian. And I don't think it would be any better with Palm OS or Windows Mobile or any other operating system. I really like this phone so far.

If you really think the s700i wouldn't be better with PalmOS, then I'd have to assume you don't know what you're talking about. Or else you use the phone almost exclusively as a PHONE rather than a PDA.

And if you don't think it would be better to have a phone with tens of thousands of available apps, stable syncing software and a powerful developer community instead of the tragedy known as Symbian, then I suppose this proves ignorance is bliss. Enjoy your bliss. Don't mind the rest of us as we demand something better.




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: PDA market
TwinTurbo @ 1/29/2005 6:13:02 PM # Q
VOR, it sounds like you have never used or probably even seen a P900, s700i, or any other Symbian based Sony Ericsson phone for that matter. Perhaps they are not available in the Republic of Vanuatu or whatever remote island it is that you live on.

Also the line "tens of thousands of available apps, stable syncing software and a powerful developer community" is typical Palm hyperbole. I personally don't need 5,000 different calculators or the next "powerful" third party alarm clock. And out of all these wonderful apps, why doesn't PalmSource natively produce apps that are actually useful, like say an actual browser. Or maybe an FM tuner like the s700i. The core Palm operating system itself is pretty much a single threaded joke.

My Palm PDA was useful about 3 years ago. Now it's a paperweight. Times have changed and so have technology preferences. Unless Palm OS is able to someday ship on low cost PHONES as well as PDAs, it will not remain viable long term. Because there are really only 3 killer apps that most users need to experience mobile "bliss" as you call it: Phone w/PIM, wireless messaging, and a browser. That's it. The BlackBerry is a perfect example. It doesn't have many apps but corporate users can't get enough of it.

The bottom line is that Sony doesn't need PalmSource, but PalmSource could desperately use Sony.



Sony Ericsson PalmOS phones: When will they arrive?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 9:08:42 PM # Q
VOR, it sounds like you have never used or probably even seen a P900, s700i, or any other Symbian based Sony Ericsson phone for that matter. Perhaps they are not available in the Republic of Vanuatu or whatever remote island it is that you live on.

Also the line "tens of thousands of available apps, stable syncing software and a powerful developer community" is typical Palm hyperbole. I personally don't need 5,000 different calculators or the next "powerful" third party alarm clock. And out of all these wonderful apps, why doesn't PalmSource natively produce apps that are actually useful, like say an actual browser. Or maybe an FM tuner like the s700i. The core Palm operating system itself is pretty much a single threaded joke.

My Palm PDA was useful about 3 years ago. Now it's a paperweight. Times have changed and so have technology preferences. Unless Palm OS is able to someday ship on low cost PHONES as well as PDAs, it will not remain viable long term. Because there are really only 3 killer apps that most users need to experience mobile "bliss" as you call it: Phone w/PIM, wireless messaging, and a browser. That's it. The BlackBerry is a perfect example. It doesn't have many apps but corporate users can't get enough of it.

The bottom line is that Sony doesn't need PalmSource, but PalmSource could desperately use Sony.


Since you seem to be genuinely ignorant and/or confused, I'll ignore your troll post.

I have used the P800, P900, P910 and S700. I would replace my T608 phones with S710i, but I'm still not yet willing to cross over to the GSM wasteland for the sake of a better phone.

Yes, most of the thousands of apps available for PalmOS are garbage and there's a lot of redundancy. But there's also a ton of truly brilliant apps that you can't get for Symbian. Palm's failure to update their PDAs with a modern suite of apps is inexcusable, as regulars here know I've said all along.

PIM, email/SMS and Internet is not all you need. Someday you'll see that people accept whatever they're given as long as there aren't better options available. Palm could have kicked Blackberry's a$$ had Palm's execs not been asleep at the wheel.

PalmOS could boost Sony Ericsson's sales in a major way. It's a win-win situation.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: PDA market
TwinTurbo @ 1/29/2005 11:14:15 PM # Q
Well VOR as I said in my original post I agree that I would like to see Sony Ericsson offer a Palm OS phone. I personally think the Treo is lacking and would love to see what they could do with a Palm OS smartphone. But it probably won't ever happen.

I also agree that Palm should have killed RIM at their own game, but the fact is they didn't. IMO, this was their most inexcusable failure. And it wasn't just the execs that were asleep at the wheel. The engineers, sales, and marketing folks I met with didn't get it either. Like you said, they somehow managed to repeat history with a lot of the same mistakes from Apple. It's rather a tragic story as they created the market and then fumbled most of it away.

As for the apps, I really have not seen that many brilliant offerings that would make me stay loyal in any way to Palm OS. Most are just enhanced PIM apps that Palm should have offered natively, and there's really only so much you can do on a 3" display for word processing and other stuff. I must say I do like Pocket-DVD studio, but I found it actually works better on Pocket PC than Palm.

Anyway back to the original point, I don't think Sony will embrace Palm OS again, and I happen to agree with this business decision. The folks at Microsoft also seem to be much more concerned about Symbian and RIM than anything coming from Palm. PalmSource embracing Linux might change that but only time will tell. Their track record for innovation and execution is not very remarkable...


Someone needs to buy PalmSource. ASAP.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/30/2005 7:41:02 PM # Q
Well VOR as I said in my original post I agree that I would like to see Sony Ericsson offer a Palm OS phone. I personally think the Treo is lacking and would love to see what they could do with a Palm OS smartphone. But it probably won't ever happen.

I also agree that Palm should have killed RIM at their own game, but the fact is they didn't. IMO, this was their most inexcusable failure. And it wasn't just the execs that were asleep at the wheel. The engineers, sales, and marketing folks I met with didn't get it either. Like you said, they somehow managed to repeat history with a lot of the same mistakes from Apple. It's rather a tragic story as they created the market and then fumbled most of it away.

As for the apps, I really have not seen that many brilliant offerings that would make me stay loyal in any way to Palm OS. Most are just enhanced PIM apps that Palm should have offered natively, and there's really only so much you can do on a 3" display for word processing and other stuff. I must say I do like Pocket-DVD studio, but I found it actually works better on Pocket PC than Palm.

Anyway back to the original point, I don't think Sony will embrace Palm OS again, and I happen to agree with this business decision. The folks at Microsoft also seem to be much more concerned about Symbian and RIM than anything coming from Palm. PalmSource embracing Linux might change that but only time will tell. Their track record for innovation and execution is not very remarkable...

Have you used a Treo 600 for an extended period of time? If you have, I find it difficult to believe you wouldn't be impressed. The only problem is its horrible build quality. Had Sony made a PalmOS smartphone of similar design last year, they would completely own the smartphone world by now.

Palm's failure to compete with RIM was a major blow to the platform. Palm has been dependent on others for innovation for so long that no one in the company seemed willing to make the effort to create a RIM competitor from scratch. The Good and Seven email packages were apparently expected to make Palm competitve with RIM.

It really has been sad to watch Palm's self destruction unfold over the past three years. It's almost as if someone working there is doing everything possible to destroy the company. The inbreeding with clueless former members of The Apple Dumpling Gang has resulted in Palm being compleyely pillaged and struggling to stay alive. Cutting corners on R + D, parts selection and quality control to make money that's then just handed back to gluttonous executives is a recipe for bankruptcy. The ex-Apple execs were initially like benign pigs in a trough, but now that the Palm Companies are imploding those execs have revealed their true parasitic selves for all to see.

As far as Palm's app advantage: yes it has been significantly eroded over the past few years. But unless you only are a casual user, PalmOS offerings still dominate PPC in most categories. Symbian is a VERY distant third. Unfortunately for Palm, many developers seem to be hedging their bets and now offer PPC versions of their apps. If PPC can win a few more major defections to their camp (like DateBk5) there will be less incentive for veteran Palm users to stick with the platform given how anemic the Palm hardware is these days.

Sony has two options to recoup their recent expense in PalmOS development:

1) Cut a deal with Sony Ericsson to sell a lineup of PalmOS smartphones. Given how good recent Sony Ericsson designs have been (reflected by the company's huge profits in the past few quarters), these phones would be a guaranteed hit. And would threaten Nokia's Symbian hegemony. Sony needs to buy PalmSource outright and get serious about smartphone licencing + creating a PalmOS iPod killer (the VZ90 was a first step towards the latter - a slick portable multimedia center). The hardware and software are more or less already available. It all boils down to whether or not Sony is willing to make a (small) gamble or if conservatism (and reducing market scope) now runs the show. PlayStation Portable is going to be a MASSIVE hit for Sony for the next three years, but PalmOS can also bring in a lot of $$$ into Sony's coffers if it's managed properly. PalmSource is ripe for a buyout, especially given how many damaging blows the company has sustained in the past year. (PalmOS 6 delay, PalmOS 6 bugs, PalmOS 6 rejection, pa1mOne biotch slap, PalmOS 5 bugs, sudden retreat to PalmLinux, etc. etc.) PalmSource may be a demoralized company, but in the right hands they STILL have the potential to turn it around and come out on top again. Quickly. I'm betting whoever buys PalmSource this year will get the bargain of the decade.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: PDA market
samagonistes @ 1/30/2005 8:42:42 PM # Q
"Nonsense. Sony sold 1 million P800 smartphones despite the fact that they were crippled with Symbiam. Between PalmOS smartphones and PDAs, Sony could probbly generate annual sales of 3 million units. That's a lot of potential Memory Stick sales. And a lot of potential future customers for Sony's other electronics.

Assuming $100 profit per unit -> $300 million net, then subtract development, support + marketing costs -> seems they should be able to make a profit..."

1 million P800s? Combined POS smartphones and PDAs of 3 million? Whoop-de-freakin'-do! Did you see the sales forecasts for digital still cameras? Unlike PalmOne, Sony isn't reliant upon one product category, and because of this, they're probably asking themselves where they should allocate their engineering and manufacturing resources that will provide the most bang for the buck.

As for your assumptions on profit, I'll leave them as assumptions because you clearly have no idea on margins within the electronics business. Sony manufactured the clies in Japan, so you have consider that labor is a large factor in the costs, as well as shipping them to various regions. Also, include elements such as licensing costs (not only of the OS but third party software), software development (sony-proprietary, which isn't that good), and components (e.g., LCD, semiconductors, etc.) and the $100 profit that you're throwing out there simply isn't there. While Sony was the only PalmOS licensee with a $500+ product, they also had $200 ones, which I assume was their bread and butter as it is typically the case with these types of business models, and you begin to see that the sales of the higer cost models (not there in volume because the market demand was eroding) covered the loss on the lower priced models. Finally, factor in the fact that calls to a support center typically are very costly because most likely, it's out-sourced and then you're left with a pretty bleak picture on profitability.



RE: PDA market
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/4/2005 12:11:40 AM # Q

Please buy a clue. ASAP.

Sony's CLIE sales could be very profitable since all the R+D has already been done and they can sell premium priced devices at the expense of Palm's marketshare. The TH55 still is a better PDA value than anything currently available from pa1mOne and could easily be sold profitably as-is for the next 18 months.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Reply to this comment

Momentum

Gekko @ 1/27/2005 3:00:57 PM # Q

The momentum is with PPC and NOT PalmOS thanks to Nagel's leadership.

Palm is a victim of Newton's First Law (Law of Inertia) - A body at rest stays at rest and a body in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an outside, net force.

Sony is not going to make the same mistake twice of hitching their wagon to a loser. I would not be surprised if we soon see a PPC Clie to join the Windows VAIO family.

The trend is clear, Palm is screwed.



RE: Momentum
hkklife @ 1/27/2005 3:31:09 PM # Q
No, what we REALLY need to happen is for Panasonic to buy Tapwave and then later on, P1/PalmSource.

Initially, they should produce at least 4 models along with one or two carryover models:

1. A ruggedized Zod-sized ToughPad (or whatever) with dual wireless, long-life replacable battery etc.

2. A "T5 but better in every way" style PDA for business users.

3. A "gameable" (not portable gaming console but a media-centric
PDA that just so happens to play games pretty well) Zodiac followup with an eventual upgrade with a micro HD built in. Basically the same thing hinted at by the Tapwave suits in that PCWorld article a few weeks ago but arriving to market sooner than "'06 or later".

4. Either a mid-high range Panasonic Treo OR something along the lines of a HD-based mp3/ogg/DiVx player w/ color scren and SD slot that you could offload digicam pics onto and also use for rudimentary PIM functions (not iPod rudimentary--like Zire 21 rudimentary).

It's a logical move. Matsu****a is bigger than even Sony. They have a vested interest in the SD format. They hate Sony with a passion and aren't too hot on Wintel either. Panasonic's rigid DRM and "secure" SD mp3 players have flopped about a hard as Sony's efforts the past few years. This would be a perfect chance to capitalize on a lull in Apple innovation (Palm-style incremental upgrades on the iPod, as TVoR says above) and weakened Sony CE and VAIO/Clie divisions.


RE: Momentum
mikecane @ 1/27/2005 4:02:26 PM # Q
>>>The momentum is with PPC and NOT PalmOS thanks to Nagel's leadership.

Gekko, have you forgotten Benhamou?! (I think that name translates into "Let's milk this baby for all its got!")

RE: Momentum
Foo Fighter @ 1/27/2005 4:40:46 PM # Q
>> "The momentum is with PPC and NOT PalmOS"

Actually the momentum is with RIM's Blackberry. At its current rate of growth, the Blackberry is going to eclipse both PalmOS and Windows Mobile.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Momentum
TTrules @ 1/27/2005 5:52:24 PM # Q
Wow, Gekko made a relatively decent comment. I'm surprised!

One Palm to rule them all!
Momentum is easily gained + lost.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 9:37:14 PM # Q
The momentum is with PPC and NOT PalmOS thanks to Nagel's leadership.

Palm is a victim of Newton's First Law (Law of Inertia) - A body at rest stays at rest and a body in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an outside, net force.

Sony is not going to make the same mistake twice of hitching their wagon to a loser. I would not be surprised if we soon see a PPC Clie to join the Windows VAIO family.

The trend is clear, Palm is screwed.

Momentum is both deceptive and fickle. HP's 2005 PPC hardware lineup is pretty weak and will likely cause a dip in PPC sales over the next few quarters. And remember, PPC momentum has been BOUGHT with Microsoft influence/FUD rather than EARNED like Palm did to generate its sales during its Golden Period of 1999 - 2001. A Sony Ericsson lineup of smartphones and revamped Sony CLIE lineup could quickly reverse this trend. Furthermore, Palms are STILL selling despite countless self-inflicted wounds from the company's so-called leaders.

A Sony PPC makes no sense. Why leave a market you can easily dominate, already have experience in and already have shipping product for, just to join an ultra-competitive market powered by a buggy, bloated Microsoft OS? No way. The problem is that Sony recently experienced heavy losses in several divisions, leading them to want to consolidate their lineups. In addition, some people in Sony felt PSP had the potential to make certain CLIE models (like the VZ90) redundant.

Palm as a hardware company may be (deservedly) screwed, but PalmOS deserves to thrive. A buyout of PalmOS in 2003 (by Sony) was needed to ensure the platform's longterm viability. I still feel PalmOS has what it takes to survive. The only problen is that White Knights are in short supply these days...




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Matsu$hita buys PalmOS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 10:00:37 PM # Q
Tapwave being bought by Panasonic? Nope.

More interesting is the question of who is going to buy PalmSource in 2005.

Sony?
Matsu$hita?
Samsung?
pa1mOne?


IBM, Dell and Apple sure aren't interested in PalmSource's rapidly decaying carcass. $100 million could get someone a pretty good OS company...



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Blackberry could disappear OVERNIGHT.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 10:08:43 PM # Q
Actually the momentum is with RIM's Blackberry. At its current rate of growth, the Blackberry is going to eclipse both PalmOS and Windows Mobile.

Blackberry showed everyone once again that business customers are what really matters. Palm made a huge mistake ignoring businesses for as long as it did.

BUT if Blackberry ever loses its patent case, they could disappear almost overnight. It won't happen, but it just goes to show this is all a house of cards waiting to come down.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Momentum
hkklife @ 1/27/2005 10:30:38 PM # Q
Voice: Yeah I agree that Tapwave ain't gonna get gobbled up by anyone--its carcass'll just be left to slowly rot out in the sun. That was just my wishful thinking that the last company willing to take a chance on quality in the handheld market might live to release another Zod.

However, I really do think that, out of ALL of the players in this biz, either Lenovo/IBM or Panny/Matsu****a are the only realistic options. Or, P1 might reel PalmSource back in for pennies on the dollar before being acquired themselves. Dell wouldn't buy one half of "Palm" unless they could get the other half as well.

It's most likely Dell (if anyone) IMHO if ONLY to get their hands on the Treo line. I just WISH it would be Panasonic!

Samsung seems too focused on the flavor du jour to make a serious run with one of the Palm companies and they've clearly lost interest in the Palm OS--just look at their underwhelming smartphone offerings. Sony is focused 110% on PSP and PS2/PS3 from here on--whatever $ are left will be pumped into the VAIO line or Ericsson's Symbians. There's no room or budget for anything Clie or Palm-based at Sony.

P.S. Good article!

RE: Momentum
Gekko @ 1/27/2005 10:37:26 PM # Q
>"HP's 2005 PPC hardware lineup is pretty weak"

You have no clue as to what HP is set to release.

"and will likely cause a dip in PPC sales over the next few quarters."

Uh - 'Likely'?

"And remember, PPC momentum has been BOUGHT with Microsoft influence/FUD"

Who cares - results are what matter.

>"A Sony Ericsson lineup of smartphones and revamped Sony CLIE lineup could quickly reverse this trend."

Uh - 'Could'?

>"Furthermore, Palms are STILL selling despite countless self-inflicted wounds from the company's so-called leaders."

Check the TREND.

>"A Sony PPC makes no sense."

Sure it does. It makes as much sense as a WINDOWS VAIO Notebook does. You just can't see it yet.

>"PalmOS deserves to thrive."

'Deserves'? Nothing deserves to survive. It's the survival of the fittest out there. Nagel's confused strategy/message of Cobalt and now PalmLinux will be the death knell for Palm.

Good job getting all of the Clie-Cultists all lathered up. BUT you're not 1/100 the pundit you THINK you are. Don't quit your day job at Circus City.



RE: Momentum
amike @ 1/28/2005 7:10:31 AM # Q
Gekko didn't make a comment : He's made a copy of an old post from twenties centuries archives... "What, microsoft released Windows CE 1.0 !!!! Palm is dead, period"...

RE: Momentum
mikecane @ 1/28/2005 10:17:34 AM # Q
>>Circus City

Ha! What a pair: Circus City and Office Despot. Any others?

RE: Momentum
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 12:02:26 PM # Q
>>"Blackberry showed everyone once again that business customers are what really matters. Palm made a huge mistake ignoring businesses for as long as it did."<<

Yes, business customers matter, but what Blackberry has really shown is that in times when the economy is constricted, that's when business customers are your bread and butter. In the midst of the tech bubble and a booming economy, it was consumers that ruled the marketplace due to higher amounts of disposable income and people spending on gadgets, etc. Now that is not the case, which is why the likes of Blackberry is taking off, due to it's business centricity. If the economy were still booming, Blackberry, while still making gains, would not be poised to over come either Palm or PPC.

Palm's mistake isn't so much "ignoring business users". Remember that their original offerings were business centric models that also happened to be popular with the masses. That was the magic of Palm; its ability to carry over across business/consumer demographics. Unfortunately, they were late to the consumer game, and now they are tardy in returning to quality business devices. Palm's mistake is merely being slow to the game, which is common with companies that tend to take an overly conservative perspective, which as we can all remember is a trademark of Palm. Problem is, now we need innovation and we need it in a business centric device to thrive. This means incorporating technologies that are becoming common and/or ubiquitous in professional environments. Bluetooth for road warriors who don't want a smartphone but still need connectivity, WiFi for those who are in the office a lot, or in places where there are hotspots allowing them to communicate (email) and get their work done (access to documents, ability to edit/compose them, etc.). And both for those who need both. The flash drive feature on the T5 is a palmOne baby step in that direction. Given their track record, I fear that they will "get it right" just into the next "consumer economy", thereby being late to the game once again.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Momentum
hkklife @ 1/28/2005 12:03:52 PM # Q
Worst Buy. Radio Suck.

There's also the infamous "Circuit Sh!tty" of course.

RE: Momentum
mikecane @ 1/28/2005 2:43:20 PM # Q
I forgot: Beast Buy!

RIM vs. PalmOS
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 1:14:53 AM # Q
Yes, business customers matter, but what Blackberry has really shown is that in times when the economy is constricted, that's when business customers are your bread and butter. In the midst of the tech bubble and a booming economy, it was consumers that ruled the marketplace due to higher amounts of disposable income and people spending on gadgets, etc. Now that is not the case, which is why the likes of Blackberry is taking off, due to it's business centricity. If the economy were still booming, Blackberry, while still making gains, would not be poised to over come either Palm or PPC.

Palm's mistake isn't so much "ignoring business users". Remember that their original offerings were business centric models that also happened to be popular with the masses. That was the magic of Palm; its ability to carry over across business/consumer demographics. Unfortunately, they were late to the consumer game, and now they are tardy in returning to quality business devices. Palm's mistake is merely being slow to the game, which is common with companies that tend to take an overly conservative perspective, which as we can all remember is a trademark of Palm. Problem is, now we need innovation and we need it in a business centric device to thrive. This means incorporating technologies that are becoming common and/or ubiquitous in professional environments. Bluetooth for road warriors who don't want a smartphone but still need connectivity, WiFi for those who are in the office a lot, or in places where there are hotspots allowing them to communicate (email) and get their work done (access to documents, ability to edit/compose them, etc.). And both for those who need both. The flash drive feature on the T5 is a palmOne baby step in that direction. Given their track record, I fear that they will "get it right" just into the next "consumer economy", thereby being late to the game once again.

Smart businesses target stable customers, as that's how you build a solid long term business plan. Pinning your hopes on being the fad item for fickle consumers while failing to create alternate plans is a recipe for disaster, as Palm now knows only too well.

PalmOS could easily be doing everything Blackberry is doing now. Palm was just too slow/arrogant/lazy to make the platform competitive by presenting businesses simple turnkey solutions.

It's amazing to see so many mistakes previously made by Apple being replicated by Palm in recent years. It's obvious that Palm's Apple-derived executives remain oblivious to their near-catastrophic past.




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Momentum
Wollombi @ 1/29/2005 2:46:48 AM # Q
Near catastrophic?

Trust me, an innovative computer maker that only has 3% of it's target market vs. it's much less capable competitor IS a catastrophe. No near about it.

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

Mac OS market penetration
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 3:51:41 AM # Q
Trust me, an innovative computer maker that only has 3% of it's target market vs. it's much less capable competitor IS a catastrophe. No near about it.


Mac likely is running on around 1% of active desktops these days. They've had low marketshare for a LONG time. Still, 1% of a HUGE market is nothing to sneeze at.

Apple execs are quite arrogant and deserve what happened. Once the iPod fad is over in a year or so, Apple is screwed again. Even the dumba$$ Mac Fanatics will eventually tire of asking, "Is there a Mac version of that [software]?"



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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Momentum
mikecane @ 1/29/2005 9:14:24 PM # Q
Go play with your StinkPad and leave the superior Mac users alone. Besides, with *your* CLIE fanaticism, you shouldn't be throwing bricks at any other device manufacturer. Wow, Sony really conquered the world with *their* superior PDA, didn't they? >BIG snicker<

CLIE Caviar
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/4/2005 12:32:52 AM # Q
Wow, Sony really conquered the world with *their* superior PDA, didn't they? >BIG snicker<


CLIE: Caviar to the general

Palm: Beer to you


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Reply to this comment

Did Sony ever profit from POS?

twocents @ 1/27/2005 3:17:16 PM # Q
All that R&D and custom hardware for bleeding edge POS features (most developed autonomously, outside of Palm), did Sony ever see a profit within their handheld division? My guess is they were making little to no profit and saw little interest spinning their wheels in a declining sector.


PalmIII -> Palm m505 -> Treo600

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
hkklife @ 1/27/2005 3:44:34 PM # Q
ALL that it would have taken to give an entirely different spin on the Clie line would have been the following:


1. MS port on the PS2. When the PS2 launched back in '00 Sony's digicams were just starting to "get good" (Zeiss lenses etc). If they had just gone with a MS port and an old-style PS1 mem card port on the PS2, legions of rabid gamers would have instantly purchased a Mem Stick with their shiny new PS2 and then automatically considered a Sony digicam a year or two later. Here we are in the age of 300gb+ HDs for under $200 and Sony is still charging, what, $25 for a pitiful 8mb PS2 memory card? That's an insult and a disgrace in every way imaginable. Consumers (ie 20-somethings) have short memories about things like Betamax vs. VHS. They do remember stuff from 4-5 years ago very well, however, and the outright rip-offs (and ATRAC/mp3 check-in) as outlined above aren't easily forgotten. This also conveniently leads me to my next point...

2. Remain consistent with MS specs & formfactor. MS, MS Select, MS Pro, MS Duo, MS Pro Duo, MagicGate, MagicGate Pro. Ad infinitum it seems that Sony is constantly parading a new set of MS formats, each one incompatible in some way with the other. The original MS was promised huge capacaties but it never got past the lame 128mb ceiling (same as SmartMedia). I don't recall ever reading if that was an actual technical limitation or just pure greed. I know of at least four Sony digicam owners. One gave up in disgust waiting for a 512mb or bigger "plain" MS that never materialized. Another just keeps a wallet full of 128mb cards for shooting max-res. shots. The other two just got CF cameras and sold their Sonys after optimistically trying to make a MS Pro work in an older Cybershot.

3. Not enough MS-enabled Sony CE devices. How much would it cost to add a MS port to EVERY Wega TV and EVERY Sony DVD player? In fact, some VAIO notebooks didn't come with a MS slot until recently! Imagine how happy CircuitCity would be to sell you a $900 32" Wega & a $300 Cybershot that would work together and let you view your pics on the big screen instead of a $100 generic Concord camera, a $300 32" Apex TV and a $40 Sandisk TV memory card viewer that essentially does the same thing? I'm STILL trying to figure out the baffling inclusion of the CF slots in the NX/NZ Clies and some of the higher-end Cybershots. How can the Sony engineers ramrod those deviations past management but not get a MS slot on every piece of Sony electronics???

The feuding divisions of Sony cannot agree on anything and now that the beancounters have started to drain Sony CE products of the small touches (glow in the dark remote control buttons, S-Link etc) and beefy build quality that separated them from the competition, they are left with nice screens, their name clout, and little more to ride on. Jumping onto the MP3 bandwagon now won't save them unless they can come up with absolutely KILLER hardware in the very near future. Also, they need to junk their miserable website and start from scratch. Clies are the least of Sony's worries now but they could still have at least gradually & gracefully wound down Clie sales outside of Japan instead of just snuffing it out overnight.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
Strider_mt2k @ 1/27/2005 6:07:26 PM # Q
Well put sir.

My wife and I got a PStwo for Christmas, and I was shocked at the tiny memory cards for so much money.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 10:15:58 PM # Q
ALL that it would have taken to give an entirely different spin on the Clie line would have been the following:


1. MS port on the PS2. When the PS2 launched back in '00 Sony's digicams were just starting to "get good" (Zeiss lenses etc). If they had just gone with a MS port and an old-style PS1 mem card port on the PS2, legions of rabid gamers would have instantly purchased a Mem Stick with their shiny new PS2 and then automatically considered a Sony digicam a year or two later. Here we are in the age of 300gb+ HDs for under $200 and Sony is still charging, what, $25 for a pitiful 8mb PS2 memory card? That's an insult and a disgrace in every way imaginable. Consumers (ie 20-somethings) have short memories about things like Betamax vs. VHS. They do remember stuff from 4-5 years ago very well, however, and the outright rip-offs (and ATRAC/mp3 check-in) as outlined above aren't easily forgotten. This also conveniently leads me to my next point...

Great points. Especially the one about Sony's failure to include a Memory Stick slot on the Playstation 2. That must rank as one of Sony's all time biggest blunders.

2. Remain consistent with MS specs & formfactor. MS, MS Select, MS Pro, MS Duo, MS Pro Duo, MagicGate, MagicGate Pro. Ad infinitum it seems that Sony is constantly parading a new set of MS formats, each one incompatible in some way with the other. The original MS was promised huge capacaties but it never got past the lame 128mb ceiling (same as SmartMedia). I don't recall ever reading if that was an actual technical limitation or just pure greed. I know of at least four Sony digicam owners. One gave up in disgust waiting for a 512mb or bigger "plain" MS that never materialized. Another just keeps a wallet full of 128mb cards for shooting max-res. shots. The other two just got CF cameras and sold their Sonys after optimistically trying to make a MS Pro work in an older Cybershot.

I have to disagree with that one. Yes, ideally they should have come up with a design that didn't need to be changed. The problem is that the earlier Memory Stick formats just aren't capable of doing what is required of a modern memory format. They gradually upgraded the format out of necessity. As usual, early adopters got screwed. Another reason why CompactFlash is overall a "better" format than Memory Stick...

3. Not enough MS-enabled Sony CE devices. How much would it cost to add a MS port to EVERY Wega TV and EVERY Sony DVD player? In fact, some VAIO notebooks didn't come with a MS slot until recently! Imagine how happy CircuitCity would be to sell you a $900 32" Wega & a $300 Cybershot that would work together and let you view your pics on the big screen instead of a $100 generic Concord camera, a $300 32" Apex TV and a $40 Sandisk TV memory card viewer that essentially does the same thing? I'm STILL trying to figure out the baffling inclusion of the CF slots in the NX/NZ Clies and some of the higher-end Cybershots. How can the Sony engineers ramrod those deviations past management but not get a MS slot on every piece of Sony electronics???

True. The more products I see with Memory Stick slots (no matter how useless they really are), the more reassured I am as a consumer that it's a good format and the more likely I am to want to invest in buying more Memory Sticks. Sony almost got me with their slick little DSC-T1 http://www.dcviews.com/reviews/Sony-T1/Sony-DSC-T1-review.htm - not the best in terms of photo quality, but it would have allowed me to use my Memory Sticks in it. In the end, quality (Olympus) beat Sony's strategy.

I think they couldn't get Memory Stick IO to work adequately, so they went with standard CompactFlash on those CLIEs you mentioned.

The feuding divisions of Sony cannot agree on anything and now that the beancounters have started to drain Sony CE products of the small touches (glow in the dark remote control buttons, S-Link etc) and beefy build quality that separated them from the competition, they are left with nice screens, their name clout, and little more to ride on. Jumping onto the MP3 bandwagon now won't save them unless they can come up with absolutely KILLER hardware in the very near future. Also, they need to junk their miserable website and start from scratch. Clies are the least of Sony's worries now but they could still have at least gradually & gracefully wound down Clie sales outside of Japan instead of just snuffing it out overnight.

Agreed. Sony is at risk of killing its good name by dropping quality. People will pay extra for the Sony name and the expected nicer quality, but Samsung is now poised to become the new Sony. Profits from PSP and PS2 should give Sony the breathing room it needs to be able to spend $$$ on the high end boutique "halo" hardware that attracts attention.




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
hkklife @ 1/27/2005 10:42:39 PM # Q
Thank you Strider. I agree with you on all counts. The PS2 is perhaps the most overpriced piece of plastic on store shelves these days. In the frenzy to get all of the millions of game consoles online, someone forgot about thinks like improving loading times, mass storage options etc.

A seldom-remembered tidbit is that back in '00 or so, during the gestation period of the Gamecube, Panasonic was going to release a Gamecube to MMC/SD adapter card thingie. So you could stick your (huge at the time) 32mb SD card into your GC and have hundreds of game saves, rosters etc on it. Nintendo shot the idea down because of the tremendous margins they enjoy from their overpriced "genuine" accessories. A GC memory card is, what, 4mb? Even worse than the PS2!

As proprietary as MS is, it's still infinitely better than any of the "console cards". If Sony does it right, the PSP will at least be the first console (portable or otherwise) in history with removable storage media of consistently upgradable capacity. Anyone know if the PS3 will use Memory Sticks? I'd be willing to forsake backwards compatability with PS1/PS2 IF it meant having a superior storage format.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 10:43:50 PM # Q
All that R&D and custom hardware for bleeding edge POS features (most developed autonomously, outside of Palm), did Sony ever see a profit within their handheld division? My guess is they were making little to no profit and saw little interest spinning their wheels in a declining sector.


CLIE and PalmOS were an investment + to be part of a longterm Sony strategy. Sony made a reasonable (at the time) gamble that PDAs would keep booming and that PalmOS would be the center of that boom. Sony would have an entire line of PDAs, entertainment devices, microlaptops, etc that were expected to become as ubiquitous as the Sony Walkman was in the 80s. That stategy seemed quite sound in 2000. What Sony spent on PDA development from 2000 - 2004 was little more than R + D for its future. Sony experimented and released an incredible number of models every month or two. Anything made back from sales of what was essentially prototype hardware was a bonus. Had the PDA market continued to grow the way it did from 1999 - 2001, Sony would be in a enviable postion right now.

But like any wise company, Sony had several backup plans and PSP will probably save their collective a$$es. Palm, on the other hand, had no backup plan and is now in the midst of a record-setting decline.




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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
mikecane @ 1/28/2005 10:19:48 AM # Q
Keep having your CLIE wet dreams. Sony will make more per-unit from their U series -- and will eventually sell more of *those* than *every* damned CLIE they've sold.

Further, when they shrink it down to an OQO-sized device and tweak things for wake-up-with-alarm capability, the PDA will be dead in corporations.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 12:55:28 PM # Q
The thing is, PalmOS has the potential and the capablity to do everything that Windows can, with fewer problems. It needs the right combination of hardware and apps to make it so.

Palms are already OQO sized, and various companies (Sonly included) have shown that you can pair just about any hardware you want with the OS if you are willing to do so. Realistically there is nothing to stop the PalmOS from being the OS of choice for minitature devices (OQO included), except for the developers and companies themselves.

Sonly shoots both themselves and the platform in the foot everytime they try to lock you into something proprietary (i.e. Memory Stick instead of SD, crippled CF slots, etc.). The same goes for PalmOne everytime they fail to meet their potential, and PalmSource for not having a better and faster reveiew process for adding features into the OS that licensees would implement and recommend to Palm. I DO have to give kudos to those responsible for the PalmOS for keeping it a somewhat open and very customizable OS, allowing licensees to innovate at will. Sonly just carried that a little too far, IMHO, by creating some bizzare, hard to use designs. If they had skipped some of those and arrived at something like the TH-55 earlier and with more open standards (SD vs. MS), they might still be marketing Clies outside of Japan today. Many consumers don't want to feel coerced into using a format they have no other use for, especially if they already have other cards that work in everything else they have.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 1:05:25 PM # Q
>>"The thing is, PalmOS has the potential and the capablity to do everything that Windows can, with fewer problems. It needs the right combination of hardware and apps to make it so."<<

Additional thought: I suspect that this is some of the impetus behind PalmSource moving to a Linux kernel. The OS is still the same, but the underlying stability and "network friendliness", as well as all of the additional applications suddenly gained overnight as it were, could be a compelling platform if it is paired with innovative, usable hardware.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 1:30:50 AM # Q
Keep having your CLIE wet dreams. Sony will make more per-unit from their U series -- and will eventually sell more of *those* than *every* damned CLIE they've sold.

Further, when they shrink it down to an OQO-sized device and tweak things for wake-up-with-alarm capability, the PDA will be dead in corporations.

Your latest obsession - Sony's U series - is little more than a public beta, much like most of the CLIEs were. But as long as Sony doesn't abandon it, within two or three generations (2 years) the U models should have all of the bugs + UI issues worked out. Still, for many potential customers it will be no keyboard, no go. A 2 pound XP mini laptop makes more sense (for now) than the Vaio U71/U50 + keyboard.

The only one dreaming is you, Cane. The proposed CLIE models are achievable TODAY, no development necessary. The Vaio U71/U50 have a long way to go.


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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 1:48:24 AM # Q
The thing is, PalmOS has the potential and the capablity to do everything that Windows can, with fewer problems. It needs the right combination of hardware and apps to make it so.

Palms are already OQO sized, and various companies (Sonly included) have shown that you can pair just about any hardware you want with the OS if you are willing to do so. Realistically there is nothing to stop the PalmOS from being the OS of choice for minitature devices (OQO included), except for the developers and companies themselves.

Precisely. Palm blew a golden opportunity to entrench PalmOS as a serious business platformcouple years ago.

Additional thought: I suspect that this is some of the impetus behind PalmSource moving to a Linux kernel. The OS is still the same, but the underlying stability and "network friendliness", as well as all of the additional applications suddenly gained overnight as it were, could be a compelling platform if it is paired with innovative, usable hardware.

PalmLinux could have been to Palm what Mac OS X was to Apple: a clever, cheap way to transition from a dead end, hacked up, overextended OS into a stable, next-generation OS.



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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
mikecane @ 1/29/2005 9:18:51 PM # Q
>>>The Vaio U71/U50 have a long way to go.

Yeah, as if you ever held one in your greasy, sleazy paws. That comment alone shows just how ignorant you are of that platform. Especially since in the *US* it's the 750P. Update your files.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/29/2005 9:45:33 PM # Q
I've only used a U71 brought over through Dynamism. Not ready for prime time. Enjoy eating crow? Dumba$$,


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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
mikecane @ 1/30/2005 6:59:57 PM # Q
"Not ready for prime time" from some dipthong whose idea of pocket nirvana -- aside from one of his hands (or both!) -- is that idiotic UX with its laughable microscopic screen (hey, didn't the RTex have a larger one?).

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/30/2005 7:35:44 PM # Q
"Not ready for prime time" from some dipthong whose idea of pocket nirvana -- aside from one of his hands (or both!) -- is that idiotic UX with its laughable microscopic screen (hey, didn't the RTex have a larger one?).


As usual, very intelligent reply, Cane.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Did Sony ever profit from POS?
mikecane @ 1/30/2005 9:32:07 PM # Q
It suits *you*, sleazebag.

Reply to this comment

My Personal Plea!

kmoore @ 1/27/2005 3:44:30 PM # Q
I agree that sony should stick with PALM, as a developer, the palm platform is taking off much to my surprise, and many of my customers are requesting the devices with similar features of the CLIE line. I am unable to recomend them as they are going the way of the dodo-bird. However, I do agree that SONY has a stellar design team and if they decide to; they could take the TREO in a heart beat...Please Sony don't GO!

Reply to this comment

Drop that Stick!

Pfigger @ 1/27/2005 7:05:12 PM # Q
Brilliant articel,Voice of Reason. But in my opinion, your are wrong in one point: Sony should finally drop that stupid stick! You are right: Sony made the best PDAs, they're possibly also selling the best digital cams, but they're doing the same mistake with both of them: They stick to their properitary storage media, aka MS. Properitary, that's what the MS is and like somthing else that can be abridged to MS, to the user, "properitary" means "evil".

RE: Drop that Stick! Not so quick...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/27/2005 11:03:44 PM # Q
Brilliant articel,Voice of Reason. But in my opinion, your are wrong in one point: Sony should finally drop that stupid stick! You are right: Sony made the best PDAs, they're possibly also selling the best digital cams, but they're doing the same mistake with both of them: They stick to their properitary storage media, aka MS. Properitary, that's what the MS is and like somthing else that can be abridged to MS, to the user, "properitary" means "evil".

Thanks, but I think Sony knows EXACTLY what they're doing. If they can make you more likely to buy more of their hardware by using a proprietary memory format, then they have achieved their goal of generating profits for the company. If Sony's offerings are so good as to make someone who hates "proprietary" formats buy them, then they deserve to succeed. And remember, most formats you like to think of as being "open standards" are in fact "proprietary". The difference is that (like SD) those formats might have a few more thugs in their cartel shoving their particular formats down consumers' throats, making it seem like the formats are really open standards.

hkklife made a great point earlier about Sony missing the boat by not including Memory Stick on their Playstation 2. Had they bothered to do this, Memory Stick just might have wiped out SD by now. Sony would be laughing all the way to the bank. In any event, with PSP sporting Memory Stick, the format just assured itself a long and profitable life.

I don't care about whether a format is proprietary. Just give me a SINGLE format that has the specs I need. No matter who owns it.



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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Drop that Stick!
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 1:09:34 PM # Q
>>"Thanks, but I think Sony knows EXACTLY what they're doing. If they can make you more likely to buy more of their hardware by using a proprietary memory format, then they have achieved their goal of generating profits for the company. If Sony's offerings are so good as to make someone who hates "proprietary" formats buy them, then they deserve to succeed."<<

Yes, generating profits should be a good goal of any company, but not at the expense of customer loyalty/consumer relations. Sonly has squandered a lot of consumer goodwill that would have made them even more profitable had they chosen to go with a more open (or less propriatary, or more widely used, take your pick of terms) format rather than trying to force/foist/shoehorn a memory format that was both technologically inferior (this gap has narrowed coniderably, but I think too late), and had little to no market penetration. This made your expensive (MORE expensive than higher capacity, technologically superior formats) investment usable in one device, two if you are a Sonly die-hard and bought their cameras too. Couple that with the obscenely slow speeds and what you got was somthing that was not very useful with a high price of admission.

If Sonly has succeeded in getting consumers to buy and use their MS sporting technology, it is in spite of themselves, not because of the merits of MS. MS has very little to do with the technology of the devices using it. It could easily be switched out/replaced with SD, which is much more prevalent in the market, and sell an even greater number of devices. I don't have a Sonly digicam, because A) I have no use for MS, and B) I already have a ready supply of SD cards. So my next camera will likely be a Nikon, as it is every bit as high quality, and I won't need to purchase yet another memory card. Sonly wasn't even in the running, because I would have to buy a MS whos sole purpose would be that camera. I don't think so. With the SD using cameras, I can snap a picture out in the field or on the road, then immediately put the card into my T5 and view the picture on a larger screen than the camera can provide. It also has the side benefit of an instant photo album in my Palm, as I can keep the pics I like on it. Additionally, I can offload the pics to the T5's internal memory, then transfer it to my 1GB SD card the normally resides in the SD slot, thereby clearing my (likely smaller capacity) SD card in the camera. Or, if I choose I can just use the one 1GB card for both. That's the kind of flexibility I and many other consumers appreciate, and will be more likely to buy.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Drop that Stick!
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 1:21:39 PM # Q
And let us not forget that SD readers are built into just about every new PC these days. Further simplifying my use of SD in a camera or PDA or both.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

Reply to this comment

goodnews, badnews

p2k @ 1/27/2005 7:03:39 PM # Q
goodnews: been lurking for years - this article finally got me to signup...
badnews: ...so I could bring the news PDA market-> decline
smartphones-> growth


palm b4 2k=p2k

Hmmm...
A9700rO @ 1/27/2005 10:38:32 PM # Q
Traditional PDAs are rapidly getting smoked like some cheap a$$ Marlboro cigarettes by Windoze Mobile, the market is now staring to the general direction of smart phones. So what? We've reached a point in time that calls for change and progress;a simple PDA, with no means of telecommunication won't cut it anymore; it won't make profit. The licencees of Palm OS have realized this and probably taking some time into thinking up their next handheld device that will be profitable on the market(Need I put some more salt on the wound Sony left by ditching the PDA market?).
Farther, just because they(Pa1mOS) mainly target simplicity, doesn't mean they have to make their devices' hardware as simplistic as possible too(that T5 swine is one quintissential). Is it really going to bite Pa1m that hard on the neck and bleed them dry?(Well, they are bleeding dry at this rate...) If they just feed their customers what they want?
Belt in Wi-Fi and/or dual wireless, a decent screen, from a prosumer's perspective, it doesn't appear to be any harder than removing a leech with a blow torch from a tree...


Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72

RE: goodnews, badnews
svrontis @ 1/27/2005 11:30:54 PM # Q
> Belt in Wi-Fi and/or dual wireless

Ahem, with IR, it would be tri-wireless (if you don't mind).

RE: goodnews, badnews
ackmondual @ 1/28/2005 12:49:24 AM # Q
Well, Dual Wireless refers to internet connectivity. While u can certainly use IRda to go online, it's not as practical as wifi and BT.

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]
Reply to this comment

Why customers should remember Memory Stick ...

robrecht @ 1/27/2005 10:29:10 PM # Q
"Think of CLIEs as a loss leader used to generate brand loyalty ... Sonys were strongly considered largely because of compatibility between devices."

Think of SONY's Memory Stick fiasco as a loss used to erode brand loyalty. Dishonerable marketing about future development and compatibility does not build brand loyalty.

Thanks, robrecht

Reply to this comment

Hardware,

temp_user @ 1/28/2005 6:17:41 AM # Q
Sony will not abandon its impressive Clie hardware; they have just started!
The question is what will be the software?

It quite obvious the time of handled commuters has arrived; whether called smart phone, PDA, notebook, etc. etc, they will all apply the same concept: processor, memory, display, OS, applications, storage, IO.

Sony might want to invent their own OS, which they can apply to most of their hardware - of course in case they make it modular.

Today, we have Palm OS, Windows Mobile, from two independent software companies. Both OS will co-exist, compete, and find their own unique business, as the market will be huge.

Historically, the OS with most application wins. I don't think Sony or Nokia can build a better OS then those two.
Palm-source might be a small company on it's own, but it’s most likely a large company will buy them, and pay very good for them.

My personal opinion: Garnet is best OS for a handled, and will be very hard to challenge. It's the most beloved OS, most trusted, most applications, fastest, most stable and the least complicated. After all people will realize, the more complicated the OS will be, the less it will be suitable for a handled.



Reply to this comment

Yet another uninspiring, illogical article

JSwinden @ 1/28/2005 12:34:01 PM # Q
This is just another uninspiring, illogical article about bringing back the Clies. Why in heck would Sony want to? The PalmOS is nearly dead. Sony sales of Clies were low. And the market seems to be turning more toward Smartphones. I think Clies were overpriced, underpowered, proprietary devices filled with proprietary memory cards, processors, and software. I'm glad to see them go the way of Beta and many other Sony technologies that never sold!

Thanks,

Jack Swinden

www.JackSwinden.com

Reply to this comment

Sonys stick ruins its pdas

treesee @ 1/28/2005 1:00:12 PM # Q
every time hardwire add ons decrease flexibility they lessen the value of the product. Palm at least allows for SD cards that have many sources.
For those who remember sonys betamax valaure in video tape recordsings, this has been the corporate policy. The memory stick is only available from Sony at inflated pricing while we have seen SD cards grow in size and shrink in price.
Sony fails in computers when it only offers Stick slts. It fails in palms when it refuses provide for add ons from other suppliers.

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
Wollombi @ 1/28/2005 1:26:53 PM # Q
Agreed. Sadly, in a sense Sonly is/was the Microsoft of PalmOS. On the flip side, they had some truly good hardware from time to time, if only had not been saddled with Memory Stick nonsense.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
mikecane @ 1/28/2005 2:44:41 PM # Q
If MStick had been competitively priced, I don't think it would have mattered much. But they shot themselves in both feet, both arms, and their head by sticking to that outrageous pricing. Even today the stuff is more expensive than SD!

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
hkklife @ 1/28/2005 3:52:50 PM # Q
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000510024287/

This, my friends, is exactly why they bailed on the Clie line. Sony basically took, as Voice said, all of the sum of their Clie experiences as far as formfactor, size, battery life etc. and built a closed system gaming console around it. The "media" functions are a bonus. Same as the PS2. Killer game system (for its time) first, nifty multimedia capabilities as secondary functions. Think of how many residences around the world got their first taste of DVD movie playback on a PS2 in '00 or '01? I'd wager there are still a fair number using a PS2 as their primary movie machine.

The PSP will have a strong gaming library first and foremost while still doing the 2 basic tasks that your average Joe cares about--show digital camera pics to grandma and play plain ol' MP3s. Everything else (web browsing etc) is of minute importance.

Sony is looking like they are increasingly likely to hit one out of the park with the PSP. As long as they quickly address any hardware quirks and make sure there are decent aftermarket parts for it (higher capacity replacement batteries, replacement plastic screen shields etc) then they'll have achieved WHAT they wanted the Clie to achieve (get a PSP/Clie in as many pockets as possible and sell a few MemSticks in the process) while being infinitely more profitable for Sony as a company.

Imagine the possibilities for homebrew apps for this thing--universal remote control type programs, web browswers, IM clients, wi-fi diagnostic boxes etc etc. The possibilities are endless!

Sony PSP: The new CLIE? Maybe. Maybe not.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2005 6:39:02 PM # Q
You're right: PSP is going to be HUGE. And sales of Memory Sticks are going to skyrocket once this thing is out.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod Shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
mikecane @ 2/12/2005 8:15:31 PM # Q
MS *Duos*. It uses Duos.

Memory Stick, Schmemory Schtick...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2005 10:24:29 PM # Q
MS *Duos*. It uses Duos.

So? With the adapter the Duos can also be used in devices using regular Memory Sticks.

The PSP is going to be so big it's scary. I can't believe Nintendo thought the Nintendo DS could compete with the PSP. By the time PSP is finished with Nintendo's carcass next year Nintendo might just become the next Sega. They'll probably have to cut the DS to $50 and push it mainly as a children's platform. Adios, Mario.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
mikecane @ 2/13/2005 3:29:48 PM # Q
I don't disagree the PSP will be huge. Out of the box it has a leg up on every damned POS unit from p1: WiFi! (TC fans: go back to sleep.)

At $200, the PSP makes ALL PDA hardware look bad
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2005 10:31:40 PM # Q
At just $200 (probably subsidized by Sony) for the PSP, I'll get one just to use it as a video player. That's one sweet, big a$$ed screen it has. Damn the UX50 and its tiny screen straight to hell!!!





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Sonys stick ruins its pdas
mikecane @ 2/14/2005 8:37:29 AM # Q
Hey, it was Julie's review --

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/sony-psp-review.html

-- that finally snagged my interest. I want one too! Even just for web browsing with -- questionable link selection by buttons -- it's worth the price!

Reply to this comment

Delightful Sony story

mikecane @ 1/28/2005 8:18:41 PM # Q
RE: Delightful Sony story
Strider_mt2k @ 1/29/2005 9:23:49 AM # Q
Moved up to actually owning a Sony product have you?

Reply to this comment

Sony vs. Apple; another perspective

twrock @ 1/30/2005 11:29:42 PM # Q
Regarding branding, I thought this was interesting:
http://www.reuters.com/audi/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=7476193

(exerpt)
"Apple's just done an extraordinary job with innovation, technology and design. The iPod is what has put Apple in the lead this year," Rusch said.

"Sony has had less luck tying together its products as a lifestyle. From a branding perspective, they haven't caught up with Apple's design and ability to capture the imagination."

Reply to this comment

Zen over features

relyons @ 1/31/2005 10:54:24 AM # Q
Sony introduced numerous technical innovations in its Clie line months and years before other licensees. Sony’s focus? Features and bleeding edge technology.

PalmOne emphasized ease of use (Zen) and beauty in its products. PalmOne’s focus? Simplicity and elegance.

PalmOne (simplicity, elegance) lives. Sony (features, bleeding edge) is history.

If Sony produces new Palm OS devices in the future, I hope it maintains a better balance of Zen and features.

Reply to this comment

Sony's latest shuffle

mikecane @ 1/31/2005 5:34:40 PM # Q
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/01/31.8.shtml

Hmmm... sounds just like what Apple went through. Then Steve Jobs saved it.

Maybe Ken Kutaragi can save Sony.

Promote him ASAP.

Reply to this comment

Kutaragi now worries me

mikecane @ 2/4/2005 4:34:34 PM # Q
Kutaragi defends PSP design despite high defect rate !
Posted on Tuesday, January 25 2005

Sony Computer Entertainment boss Ken Kutaragi has defended a design decision in the PlayStation Portable which has led to a high rate of returns for the console, saying that it had a "clear purpose" and "wasn't a mistake".

Speaking with Japanese magazine Nikkei Business, Kutaragi revealed that around 4,800 PlayStation Portables have been returned for repair since the console launched last month - around 0.6 per cent of the shipped units of the system.

The bulk of these repairs have been due to problems with the square button on the handheld, which is less responsive than the others on the fascia due to being too close to the edge of the system's screen.

However, Kutaragi was unapologetic about the design of the console, saying that the button was created in this way on purpose and that users and developers will "have to adapt" to this quirk of the controls.

"I didn't want the PSP's LCD screen to become any smaller than this, nor did I want its machine body to become any larger," he told Nikkei Business. "The button's location is [engineered] on purpose. It's according to specifications. This is something that we've created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn't a mistake."

http://psp-news.dcemu.co.uk/

-- would Morita have said such a thing?

Oh dear. Kutaragi now worries Mike Cane!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/9/2005 1:19:49 AM # Q
With the PSP assured of becoming another MASSIVE hit for Sony and the upcoming Playstation 3 that will likely shatter videogame console sales records and crush Sony's competition, Kutaragi can be excused for the occasional arrogant, dumba$$ed comment. The guy does sound suspiciously like Lee Iococcoa, though. Funny how ****y he can get while Little Apple's still kicking Sony's a$$ with the iPod.

Too bad a lot of PSP part production has been outsourced to China. Thanks Sony, but I'll wait for hardware revision 2.


******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Kutaragi now worries me
mikecane @ 2/9/2005 1:42:54 PM # Q
>>>Too bad a lot of PSP part production has been outsourced to China.

So has much of previous Japan manufacturing.

Hell, the electrons I'm using here were made in Cihna.

Hmmmm... they sitll gotta wrok on their uqaltyi cnortlo.

Reply to this comment

Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2005 6:43:19 PM # Q
The CLIE lineup should be re-positioned as a boutique, high end device family, iPod-style/Mac-style. The market is there. Is Jobs the only computer exec in the world that knows how to manipulate demand for his company's products?


http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html

"Apple® today announced financial results for its fiscal 2005 first quarter ended December 25, 2004. For the quarter, the Company posted a net profit of $295 million, or $.70 per diluted share. These results compare to a net profit of $63 million, or $.17 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Revenue for the quarter was $3.49 billion, up 74 percent from the year-ago quarter. Gross margin was 28.5 percent, up from 26.7 percent in the year-ago quarter. International sales accounted for 41 percent of the quarter’s revenue.

Apple shipped 1,046,000 Macintosh® units and 4,580,000 iPods during the quarter, representing a 26 percent increase in CPU units and a 525 percent increase in iPods over the year-ago quarter.

“We are thrilled to report the highest quarterly revenue and net income in Apple’s history,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We’ve sold over 10 million iPods to date and are kicking off the new year with a slate of innovative new products including iPod shuffle, Mac mini and iLife ’05.”

“We’re pleased to report 74 percent revenue growth, 26 percent Mac unit growth and 525 percent iPod unit growth,” said Peter Oppenheimer, Apple’s CFO. “Looking ahead to the second quarter of fiscal 2005, we expect revenue of about $2.9 billion and earnings per diluted share of about $.40.”"







*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod Shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Apple kicking a$$. But collapses when iPoo fad dies in 2006.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2005 6:55:28 PM # Q
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/feb/11split.html


"Apple® announced today that its Board of Directors has approved a two-for-one split of the Company’s common stock and a proportional increase in the number of Apple common shares authorized from 900 million to 1.8 billion. Each shareholder of record at the close of business on February 18, 2005 will receive one additional share for every outstanding share held on the record date, and trading will begin on a split-adjusted basis on February 28, 2005.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.
"







*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod Shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits
mikecane @ 2/12/2005 8:16:40 PM # Q
The CLIEs *were* boutique items -- and failed.

They will not be coming back, period.

RE: Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2005 10:34:58 PM # Q
The CLIEs *were* boutique items -- and failed.

Wrong (again). The CLIEs were a mixed bag. There were practical models like the S320, S360, TJ series, etc. And there were boutique models like the UX50, most N series, etc. CLIEs suffered mainly from "optimistic" pricing, weak advertising and nonexistent support. A properly run Internet sales store could do well even today with little effort from Sony - just ask anyone who's paid over $300 recently for an EB40 battery...





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits
mikecane @ 2/13/2005 3:32:05 PM # Q
"They're dead, Jim."

RE: Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2005 11:37:44 PM # Q
We'll see. Don't ever count Sony out.





*************************************************************************************

Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

*************************************************************************************





******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Apple proves niche markets can produce HUGE profits
mikecane @ 2/14/2005 8:42:07 AM # Q
The puppy is dead. Go adopt a new one.

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