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Comments on: webOS Update v1.0.3 Now Available

webos updatePalm has released a new system update for the Pre today. Palm webOS 1.0.3 is now available for over the air downloading via the built in update app.

The update weighs in at around 13MB. Palm's support document states that it includes wireless power and performance improvements, number updates that address calendar and contact Google syncing, support for non-SSL ActiveSync accounts and a few other bug fixes. You can catch the full list after the break or at the link above.

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Taking the update

philpalm @ 6/19/2009 3:08:26 PM # Q
You will update the Pre whether you like it or not, because by the third time it will automatically update itself.

However it is good to know what bugs are eliminated so you can stop complaining about certain bugs.

Unfortunately it will only be hearsay whether or no battery life is increased or not.

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Breaks Classic?

palmdoc88 @ 6/19/2009 3:23:46 PM # Q
I am reading in the forums that it prevents Classic from launching
http://is.gd/16Ghx
RE: Breaks Classic?
whiteasianrose @ 6/19/2009 4:33:01 PM # Q
for some classic is still working, for others it is not
can't comment personally as i haven't DLed classic yet
RE: Breaks Classic?
DarthRepublican @ 6/20/2009 12:04:40 AM # Q
I just put up something on my blog on the problem. The long story short is that whether or not Palm is willing to admit it appears that an undocumented update to Classic was bundled with the Palm update. This update changes the directory structure of Classic's virtual SD card in a way which breaks Classic for many people. The solution is to connect the Pre to a PC as a USB drive and back up anything in the ClassicApps folder, delete everything in this folder, and disconnect. Classic will create its new directory structure and you can move your old stuff into the Launcher folder. Once you do all this, you should be fine.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
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And thar she goes

skeezix @ 6/19/2009 5:26:03 PM # Q
... and here we go. 1) Updates are forced, 2) Updates are imperfect or 2b) Updates cause unfeatures.

== flaw

Time to not make updates mandatory :/

Or at least put better time constraints - update mandatory within 3 or 6 months, so people have time to phase them in.

Same as in a corporate environment.. usually trailing behind for non-critical patches, to ensure compatibility in apps. Imagine a MS push for XP that broke a dozen internal apps and costs a company millions.

Why are mobiles treated differently?

* really I'm just grumpy since in Canada we can't get Pre's :)
The Shadow knows!

RE: And thar she goes
jca666us @ 6/19/2009 7:10:21 PM # Q
Or Palm needs to do a better job of testing these updates to ensure they are as bulletproof as is possible.
RE: And thar she goes
philpalm @ 6/20/2009 8:05:48 AM # Q
Quote: "Or Palm needs to do a better job of testing these updates to ensure they are as bulletproof as is possible."

Ha, ha, there is no better way to test an update than to release it to the public.Forcing everyone to be a guinea pig will discover bugs very quickly. Soon as more programs are released there will be more and more conflicts. To have updates as optional will force programmers to take into consideration Pre without updates. I guess I retract my hate for forced updates.

RE: And thar she goes
SeldomVisitor @ 6/20/2009 10:34:35 AM # Q
> ...Soon as more programs are released there will be more and more conflicts...

I'm waiting for the first two apps that cause table locks on the database.

RE: And thar she goes
PadOPaper @ 6/20/2009 10:50:41 AM # Q
"* really I'm just grumpy since in Canada we can't get Pre's :)"

way to get all bent out of shape without even owning one, what an assclown
Who needs expensive gadgets, give me a pencil and some post-its. Added benefit, perfect handwriting recognition.

RE: And thar she goes
vetdoctor @ 6/21/2009 11:34:42 AM # M Q
Who needs expensive gadgets, give me a pencil and some post-its. Added benefit, perfect handwriting recognition.

Clearly you've never seen my handwriting :)

RE: And thar she goes
twrock @ 6/21/2009 8:42:01 PM # Q
^^LOL

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: And thar she goes
CFreymarc @ 6/21/2009 10:13:44 PM # Q
This is one more clue to me that there is some underlying hidden, wide range business plan / industry plan / conspiracy theory to transform the mobile systems business away from the personal computer revenue model and into something else with higher margins.
RE: And thar she goes
skeezix @ 6/22/2009 7:21:10 AM # Q
padopaper - yes, some of us are loooong time loyal palm developers who really want to get into things. No SDK is one thing, people getting in to possibly make a mess with hacked up made up SDK is another, and no access to devices is a third. ie: First mover is a huge advantage in mobile, but since only USians wil get that option, it pretty much locks a lot of us out, especially when we've got other platforms :/ (Maybe the SDK delay will in part help that, but I worry about a stack of hacks people apply against the built in .js apps, and potentially cause problems... unless it can be all coordinated like HackMaster in days of old, etc.)

Anyway yes - forced updates sounds like a design flaw to me, and I don't need a device to rant about it; but not having a device is a huge concern to quite a few people, including USians who want our apps and fill our mailboxes every day :)

Don't just assume everyone are idiots; sometimes our posts have merit! :)

jeff
The Shadow knows!

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Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0

mikecane @ 6/21/2009 2:18:18 PM # Q
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/21/2009 4:51:22 PM # M Q
I was expecting to be irritated by that article-I assumed it would be another "why so long for copy and paste" rant-but actually I agreeenyirely with it. 3.0 is mostly refinements, but here the little changes add up to something quite new. The iPhone really is starting to feel like a furnished, well-thought out, really well-designed house all the way through. There Are so many great little details and polished interfaces in this update. And it was free!
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/21/2009 5:56:31 PM # Q
Not so loud naste - the losersPalm apologists on here will "freak out" :)

An interesting article that misses one fundamental key to Apple's success with the iphone - usability.

Apple didn't just throw a ton of features into iphone 1.0 (like Windows Mobile - or the Pre apparently has). Every aspect of the interface was thought out and the things iphone 1.0 did - it did better and easier than most everything else out at the time.

Certain features - like web browsing - were done on earlier smartphones but weren't implemented nearly as well as on the iphone.

Looking at OS 3.0, I agree that they have added a ton of new features and really optimized the performance.

One thing that definitely needs work (at this point) is the Springboard.

Landscape support and the ability to enable users to more effectively organize some of the 50,000 apps. will be the next challenge.

Multitasking of 3rd party apps. isn't the challenge, but no compromising battery life will be.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
mikecane @ 6/21/2009 6:11:20 PM # Q
You lot act as if I hate the iPhone or something. Typical ignoramuses who don't get out and about on the Net - nor out and about in real life either, I'm sure.
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/22/2009 4:34:21 AM # M Q
Ah Mike, I don't think you hate the ometimes. But sometimes I do think you hate everything. :-)

My favorite refinement on the 3gs-the anti-fingerprint coating on the screen. it really does work.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/22/2009 4:35:54 AM # M Q
Insert "iPhone" for "onetimes." Curse these uneditable comments.
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
vetdoctor @ 6/22/2009 4:52:37 AM # M Q
Just wait for the Pre 1.0
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/22/2009 5:02:27 AM # Q
vetdoc - very funny - we should see Pre 1.0 by the time iphone 2.0 is complete.

Mike, I don't believe you hate the iphone - just that you're a pompous asshole. Sorry for the confusion :)

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
mikecane @ 6/22/2009 6:47:53 AM # Q
>>>Mike, I don't believe you hate the iphone - just that you're a pompous asshole. Sorry for the confusion :)

That's settled then, you wanker.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/22/2009 8:21:10 AM # M Q
in other news Palm sold one million pre's this weekend!

oh wait...those were iPhones!

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
mikecane @ 6/23/2009 9:02:09 AM # Q
Mock all you want, asswipe. Will you GO AWAY when 1M Pres have been sold? You forget no one had any idea how many Centros were going out the door until Colligan announced the first million. The quiet sales of the Pre will happen likewise.
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
abosco @ 6/23/2009 6:23:53 PM # Q
Companies tend to be extremely secretive about their numbers until they hit a milestone. Remember the G1? It must have taken it nine months until they finally declared one million units sold. Even the Blackberry Storm beat that.

We'll see when Palm declares their first million sold. I would expect no later than the completion of the second month. Any longer, and it's safe to assume the Pre launch didn't go so well. Honestly, I think sales will really pick up in January when it hits Verizon and it opens up to the other 99% of the population.

Meanwhile, I'm still chugging along on my iPhone 3G. I didn't qualify for a discount on the 3GS, and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $500 for a compass. As soon as the TomTom kit, MMS, and tethering are officially available, I'll be pretty much set. The article you posted did a good job explaining the feeling of the iPhone platform as a whole. It definitely has come together in 3.0, and I have a feeling the fourth generation hardware is really going to try something radical.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
freakout @ 6/23/2009 7:12:49 PM # M Q
I would expect no later than the completion of the second month. Any longer, and it's safe to assume the Pre launch didn't go so well. Honestly, I think sales will really pick up in January when it hits Verizon and it opens up to the other 99% of the population.

I reckon the biggest constraint on hitting the million mark now is Palm's manufacturing problems rather than lack of demand. I remember reading elsewhere (be damned if I can find a link though) that they only got 175,000 Pres from their initial order of 500,000. Which is a pretty horrible figure and doesn't bode well for the GSM-in-August rumours that I keep hearing (and praying for). It would also explain the apparently high defect rate.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/23/2009 7:42:19 PM # M Q
I would expect the sales numbers announced on the 25th to be around 250k - going by the first weeks sales numbers.

anything less will be disappointing.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/23/2009 8:01:46 PM # M Q
>Mock all you want, asswipe. Will you 
>GO AWAY >when 1M Pres have been 
>sold?

What mocking?  Touch screen. multitasking os.  Easy enough to get confused, right?

I'd guess that's what mcnamee was hoping for:

"You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone," Roger told Bloomberg. "Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later."

He was right!  They'll be using an iphone 3gs :) Talk about an asswipe -  A delusional asswipe at that!!!

>You forget no one had any idea how 
>many Centros were going out the door 
>until Colligan announced the first 
>million.

And no one gave a shit because the profits from the centro were minimal - at best.

Even if Palm were to sell 2.5 million Pres by the end of the year, that won't be enough to save Palm.

>The quiet sales of the Pre will happen likewise.

Not with defective hardware and the alleged 30% return rates.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
SeldomVisitor @ 6/24/2009 3:10:19 AM # Q
> ...alleged...

There is a recent comment thread elsewhere around that suggests "alleged" has become fact. The poster has been around a long time, has a history of Palm-oriented posts, and, IMHO, is a reliable source.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
freakout @ 6/24/2009 3:19:08 AM # Q
cane:
Will you GO AWAY when 1M Pres have been sold?

If only it was that simple...

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/24/2009 5:53:06 AM # M Q
it's fun to torment u guys :)

we should see a million sold - not shipped - by October.

Ruby is a hardware guy - you'd think with his experience they could have minimized the production issues.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
twrock @ 6/24/2009 6:42:40 AM # Q
Has anyone got the link to the "fact" that there is a 30% defective return rate? If that's really true, Palm's gonna have one serious mess to deal with.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
SeldomVisitor @ 6/24/2009 7:14:36 AM # Q
No hard facts, of course - this is Palm were talking about.

But here's a probably non-lying comment containing strong single-datapoint anecdotal evidence:

- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9842/#152738

And the one after that, apparently Brit, mentioning that 30% number - I wouldn't believe it without further proof but I'd remember it:

And there's the VERY STRONG anecdotal evidence of the fanboy site TreoCentral's forum poll that's showing something like a 40% return rate:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre/188002-how-many-times-have-you-exchanged-your-pres.html

That one's similar to an ancient poll there about the Treo 600 or something which, over time, was shown to (minimally) reflect actually Treo 600 results.

Eventually, as with courtroom circumstantial evidence, one has to say "well, yeah, it's lookin' like it's fact, alrightee!"

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/24/2009 10:01:43 AM # Q
Well, fan boy types exchange for all kinds of reasons. People who come to sites like this flip out over a stuck pixel or things like "if I'm upside down in the closet and it's completely dark and I turn the phone on and put it on it's front a clearly visible line of light leaks out around the volume switch. Company X's quality sucks! I'm returning this for the fifth time."

If you did an equivalent poll on MacRumors about the iPhone I'm sure you'd see at least a 40% rate of exchange.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
SeldomVisitor @ 6/24/2009 10:21:08 AM # Q
Do you realize how false a "Device B does it, too!" argument is?

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/24/2009 3:02:58 PM # M Q
nastebu,

apple has pretty high customer satisfaction and pretty low return rates.

40% return rate on any product strongly implies pretty bad customer satisfaction.

also it didn't seem like people were nitpicking the defective pre's

palm needs get cracking - bad word of mouth could sink the pre.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
freakout @ 6/24/2009 3:40:48 PM # Q
nastebu:
People who come to sites like this flip out over a stuck pixel or things like "if I'm upside down in the closet and it's completely dark and I turn the phone on and put it on it's front a clearly visible line of light leaks out around the volume switch. Company X's quality sucks! I'm returning this for the fifth time."

THIS. Absolutely, this.

I'd believe that the Pre hardware has issues, but I'd never trust that it's as bad as Internet forums make it out to be. The Internet is a swirling cesspool of bitterness and bile.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/24/2009 3:58:52 PM # M Q
freak,

coming from you, a very bitter person, that says alot :)

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
mikecane @ 6/24/2009 6:37:05 PM # Q
>>>pay $500 for a compass

You forget the higher-quality camera, which is very, very nice. Kicks the hell out of the Pre camera. (I don't know wtf is the problem with the Pre camera. Is it cheap components or bad imaging software?)

BTW, I did a test video I did with the iPhone 3GS: I mailed it to myself, so it's not the full 3MP. It needs QuickTime for proper portrait orientation (vlc rotates it 90 degrees!). Right now the link isn't working, so I'll have to reupload it and plop the link in here next time I stop by.

You can see three test stills here:
http://twitpic.com/7tmer
http://twitpic.com/7tmht
http://twitpic.com/7tmo0

Just quick points and clicks. I did use the square for focusing.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
abosco @ 6/24/2009 6:56:29 PM # Q
They look pretty good, but they don't look vastly better than my 3G's shots. The video recording capability would definitely be nice (it records in VGA resolution), but like I said, these minute features aren't worthy of $500. Like Engadget said, the 3GS has some nice upgrades to a phone you already own, but at its core, it is a phone you already own.

So for a first-timer or someone upgrading from an original iPhone, it's probably great. I know a few people pulling the trigger for the first time on a 3GS. But there really is hardly anything hardware-centric to make me want to upgrade.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/24/2009 9:36:00 PM # Q
Jcaa666us, about the iPhone's high satisfaction ratings, that's the point. The iPhone *does* have very high customer satisfaction, but if you went only by what they say on MacRumours, you'd think that every iPhone was a dud. 40% returns on a fan site poll isn't evidence of anything but that fan boys return a lot of phones.

Maybe the Pre has a high rate of returns, but this isn't evidence of that.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
twrock @ 6/25/2009 12:26:21 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
No hard facts, of course - this is Palm were talking about.

Oh now, com'on. You are the one who corrected jca666us when he used the word "alleged" (correctly, I might add) and instead used the word "fact". You're playing that word game again, SV.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
jca666us @ 6/25/2009 12:37:29 AM # M Q
nastebu,

even if there was a high return rate for the iPhone there is a difference:

apple can crank these out with a pretty high build quality - so even if there were 40% returns - there aren't ppl waiting a month or more to get them - that's also due to the iPhone being a more mature product.

The pre's build quality - IMHO - is not as high as it should be. The one I played with felt cheap and the slider was wobbly. Palm is obviously having production issues - being a new product doesn't help either.

If customers are waiting for new ones and there are ongoing quality issues - that will definitely decrease customer satisfaction.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
nastebu @ 6/25/2009 6:50:42 AM # Q
I still haven't seen a Pre actually on. The Sprint stores in NY seem only to have plastic shells. Those shells were pretty disappointing though. The Pre does seem wobbly and plasticy. Also, I thought all the people complaining about the sharp edge on the slider were whiners, but actually the sharp edge did really irritate me.

Apple does plastic really well. The back of the iPhone seems almost enamel rather than plastic.

Which is all to say it wouldn't be at all surprising if the Pre has quality control problems, but what's been presented here is anecdotal, and so not good evidence.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
SeldomVisitor @ 6/25/2009 7:11:12 AM # Q
The "How many times have you exchanged your Pre" poll on Treocentral has pretty consistently showed a 40-ish percent rate. That poll, of course, presents the BEST face on the data since people cannot answer more than once and their answer would only get worse over time, not better, if it changed.

At this moment it is showing 200 not exchanged and 147 exchanged (43%):

http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre/188002-how-many-times-have-you-exchanged-your-pres.html

So that's not horribly bad anecdotal evidence, IMHO.

RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0
abosco @ 6/25/2009 8:23:36 AM # M Q
You also have to take into account the fact that negative feedback is more prominent than positive feedback. The percentage of people who want to voice their dissatisfaction is higher than those who want to voice their satisfaction. If the Treocentral poll is showing a 40%+ return rate, then the alleged Best Buy memo of 30% returned sounds reasonable.
RE: Only NOW is it REALLY iPhone 1.0 - TEST VID
mikecane @ 6/26/2009 9:09:26 AM # Q
Here's the link to the short iPhone 3GS test video I took. This link will degrade fast. It's just 773KB and should be opened in QuickTime for proper portrait orientation:

http://www.filedropper.com/img0004_1

If you miss that, tnkgrl has two iPhone 3GS videos that can be downloaded too, links at her post here:

http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/apple-iphone-3gs-vs-palm-pre-camera/

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