MobileInfocenter

Comments on: palmOne Announces the LifeDrive Mobile Manager

palmOne LifeDrive Mobile Manager Handheld ~ Click for LargerpalmOne today introduced the LifeDrive mobile manager handheld. Designed for people with a significant volume of digital information, the LifeDrive mobile manager offers 4GB of hard-drive storage, a large 320x480 high-resolution color screen, and wireless access through built-in Wi-Fi and Bluetooth wireless technologies.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (395 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

WOOOOOOHOOOOO

LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 12:10:39 AM # Q
4GB IN A PALM! Killer.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
eston @ 5/18/2005 12:17:34 AM # Q
It might be a brick, but I'm really, really liking this thing.

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/
RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 12:27:23 AM # Q
More info:

**Pocket Tunes is NOT the Deluxe version that streams w/ WiFi

**$50 aluminum harcase with rubber grip is bad to the bone
http://www.palmone.com/us/products/accessories/casesandcovers/3218WW.html

** I wonder if this is literally true or marketing speak for the screen going off?
"And you can listen to your music with the rest of the device turned off to conserve battery power"

** Music "multi-tasking" allows volume and track changes w/out leaving the present app.
This is a nice feaute for audiofiles. Amazing too how many PPC folks still believe Palm OS can only do 1 thing at a time.

** 64MB NVFS ... they didn't skimp

** Still packing it all in 16MB ROM ... amazing.

** Your data stays safe even on on a hard-reset!
All your information - including music, photos and documents - is safe. If you forget to recharge, or perform a hard reset, none of your information will be lost. All you have to do is recharge to regain access to your information.

** Optical illusion. It sure looks thicker than 3/4", but maybe being a thinner width than even a T3 makes that appear so? Should fit nicely in hand, but a little long.

** The back of the device is very elegant! But where are all the UL logos etc?
http://www.palmone.com/us/images/products/mobilemanagers/lifedrive/specs_photo2.jpg

** Hard resets on the bottom next to the Athena. Large enough for stylus tip. Somebody's listened! Then again Palms never crash, so it's moot. :-o

** Anyone seen the "protective sleeve"? Surely it's not that little Zire baggie that doubles as a marble carryer.


Beautiful. Looks like PalmOne is serious about survival this cycle. Now, does it work?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 1:33:40 AM # Q
More ...


** Stylus = T3 = Springloaded (says PalmAddict)

** Screen = to the new FANTASTIC T|E2 screen quality. Wowzers.

** Palmaddcit says it fits great in the hand. Most have not noticed it's thin width, making for 1 handed comfort.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
Sam H @ 5/18/2005 2:22:07 AM # Q
[i]64MB [b]NVFS[/b] ... they didn't skimp[/i]

Or maybe they did.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
justauser @ 5/18/2005 2:23:00 AM # Q
I like the "landscape mode button". But I wonder if accidental presses reaching for it in your pocket will be an annoyance. Seems to stick out a little. Also, what does the 'hold' button do? (little lock symbol on the power). Is this to lock hardware buttons? If so - nice fix.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
justauser @ 5/18/2005 3:21:35 AM # Q
Sorry, answered my own question by reading review. Power button is a slider which slides to a hold position locking the unit in its current state against any hardward/screen input. Not exactly what I was thinking - potential battery drainer.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 3:32:01 AM # Q
Correction:

Fanboy Sammy spoke as if it had the E2 type screen, but AdamaDBrown says its about like the T5.

"The screen is a 16 bit type, rather than the richer 18 bit screen in the E2."

... not so hot when setting next to an e@ or VGA Winmobster at CC.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
AdamaDBrown @ 5/18/2005 4:09:55 AM # Q
Just a quick note, I'm pretty sure that the 64 MB (actually 65.2 MB) of "program memory" is NOT NVFS, but rather space on the hard drive.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 7:48:33 AM # Q
>>>** Music "multi-tasking" allows volume and track changes w/out leaving the present app.
This is a nice feaute for audiofiles. Amazing too how many PPC folks still believe Palm OS can only do 1 thing at a time.

This is nothing new. It has been a feature of PTunes. You swipe the stylus to call up a "console" -- similar to what we used to be able to do with Hacks/DAs.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:22:58 AM # Q
AdamA,

I keep hearing this "partition" scam is probably true. PalmOne has very little shame to advertise 64MB of memory. Your review and others seem to indicate this based on the sluggishness of even checking the clock button on the status bar ... 3 seconds!!!

The Zen of Palm has been dead for a while now, but partitioning "memory" onto the HDD is like kicking over the tombstone! I feared this after seeign the 64MB iteration on the T5. It's nothing more than a partition on the :-(

I'm gonna be a little safer carrying my T3 I guess.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
Sid_Sid @ 5/18/2005 12:43:22 PM # Q
Overpriced and late. This could have been out a year ago. And knock the price down to $400.00

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
palmhiker @ 5/18/2005 1:27:58 PM # Q
Quote: "PalmOne has very little shame to advertise 64MB of memory."

Yes, but notice how they are conveniently avoiding saying anything official about the RAM. That is a red flag that they are trying to pull one over on us. Also, the fact that the HD is erased after a hard reset indicates that the 64 MB is likely a HD partition.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:46:06 PM # Q
I was actually being polite. I really meant they "have NO shame" by covering the partition issue and calling it memory. I agree totally with you.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 5:17:56 PM # Q
I tend to find it frustrating however that PalmOne is onto it's 3rd bundled browser and still we get this comparison.

http://www.bargainpda.com/assets/3879.jpg

What good is a nice huge screen when the fonts are still huge as well...
Yes, we can run Fonts4OS5 and font smoother, but they don't work in browsers, so we're at the mercy of their small font support. And even in those apps where we can benefit from the likes fo Fonts4OS5, you choose a small font and go to the built in PIM apps, and you still get only 9-11 lines of text on a 320x320 screen, leaving the whole bottom half of the display blank.

Can we finally put OS5 to bed and move on to OS6/7/8 with TTF support and start making better use of the pixels...

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:19:52 PM # Q
No kidding

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
bcombee @ 5/19/2005 5:54:49 PM # Q
Switching to the small font in Blazer gives the display considerably more information while still remaining readable. Just tap on the menu and choose Options/Font. I'm surprised they didn't do that in the review.

RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
Rome @ 5/19/2005 6:13:09 PM # Q
Ben,

AdamDBrown is a PPC user, so you may want to take that info into consideration.

Reviews are essentially opinions of the writers. I am not saying that Adam's review is not accurate, simply that it may be biased to a certain degree. It is the same with Sammy of Palmaddict's review. Some may say that Adam's review is too negative, while others may think that Sammy's review is too positive.

The only review that counts is the eventual buyer's opinion.

Adama overtly critical, or just accurate?
Surur @ 5/19/2005 6:32:59 PM # Q

At least AdamA's review provides some numbers, while Sammy's review only provides superlatives. Infosync's review confirms AdamA's poor battery life claims, and Forbes confirms the stuttering and pauses. It looks like Sammy's review is the one that lacks credibility. But that was obvious from the start. Fantastic!

Surur

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=151231&highlight=&sid=f9858a167ded683d2a5e1e004bfee872#151231



RE: WOOOOOOHOOOOO
Rome @ 5/20/2005 3:46:56 PM # Q
"At least AdamA's review provides some numbers, while Sammy's review only provides superlatives. Infosync's review confirms AdamA's poor battery life claims, and Forbes confirms the stuttering and pauses. It looks like Sammy's review is the one that lacks credibility. But that was obvious from the start. Fantastic!"

Surur, how conveniently of you to disregard other reviews such as MobileTechReview, whose battery test number are different from Adam’s and are more in LD's favor.

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmone-LifeDrive.htm

Shame on you!!!

And I never said that Adam's review lacked credibility....just biased, perhaps. As for Sammy's review, he is a user, not a tech person. He gave a review from a layperson's perspectvie. Granted that his writing is not the greatest and he didn't have any data, but his opinion is just as credible as Adam's and maybe as biased as Adam's as well.

As I said previously, it is the eventual buyer's review that really counts, not your or mine or anybody else's.

No REAL RAM™? Oh Noooooo!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 5:57:27 PM # Q
The LifeDrive's lack of REAL RAM™ has made a complete mess of this PDA. That kind of design flaw should have never made it past Day 1 of the prototyping. There are simply ZERO excuses for this severity of fundamental design error. ZERO.


As I said before, let's cut the bull and call it like it is: Palm cut corners on the LD design, just like it has cut corners on almost every other PDA it has released in the past three or four years. These decisions have come back to bite Palm in the a$$ over and over again, yet still they continue to pinch pennies where pennies should not be pinched. The LifeDrive will be a MASSIVE flop because it's ridiculously overpriced for what it offers.


I challenge ANY Palm Apologist/employee to show the above is not true. The silence will be deafening. I'm sick of seeing Palm destroy itself by making stupid cost-cutting decisions that result in messed up, poor value hardware: 32 MB RAM in Treo 600/650, CrapRAM™ in Tungsten 5, cheap phone components in Treo 600/650, crappy case for Tungsten E, BogusRAM™ in LifeDrive etc, etc.

Please keep PIC a "No Bull Zone".



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Reply to this comment

Way too big...

ggeoffre @ 5/18/2005 12:11:55 AM # Q
I still like the form factor of the T|T T|T2 and T|T3. I really thought Palm was onto something with that form factor. A 4GB hard drive just is not enough space _IF_ you are willing to sacrifice size. There are now 4 and 8GB Compact Flash cards on the market. I still feel that a nice T|T3 form factor with 1GB internal memory with WiFi and Bluetooth would be awesome. When you start getting this big, I would consider an iPod and/or a PSP instead. Or perhaps even an OQO!

RE: Way too big...
eston @ 5/18/2005 12:19:16 AM # Q
Care to show me the PDA functionality of a PSP or an iPod?

Apples. Oranges.

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/18/2005 12:26:31 AM # Q
If you look at the justification for the increased storage space, it is for movies, photos and music, not true PDA 'stuff'. A nice tight PDA for just PDA 'stuff' is what I am looking for. The new LifeDrive challenges the PSP and the iPod in the entertainment aspects of the LifeDrive features. And for the entertainment aspects of mobile devices, I would prefer an iPod and/or a PSP depending on my focus. Besides, soon the PSP will be able to surf the internet (hack reported on slashdot), and there is a rumor of Sony releasing 'office' applications (perhaps just read only viewers). iPods do have a read only calendar, contacts and to-dos, and there are several third party applications that will sink RSS and various other text to the iPods notes. Each device has a different focus, and attempts to cross the others boundary. For me the 'P' is PDA is all about size and the 'A' in PDA is all about business, not games, audio, video and images.

RE: Way too big...
gmed @ 5/18/2005 12:33:20 AM # Q
iPod? PSP? what in the world.....? Please, this is the nicest PDA any company has ever come up with. As much as I love the iPod, which I have 3, they will in no way replace the functionality of this baby. As I have said before, there just isnt anyway to make some people happy, no matter what you do. When there was no WiFi, people complained, when there was little memory, people complained, now Palm has put in everything you can dream of, the absolute PDA I have been dreaming of for many many years, and now its a "Brick" or doesnt have enough memory. I dont know!!!! You go right ahead and use an iPod or PSP. I guess youre just wanting something to play music or play games with. For me, this is the best computer away from my desktop.

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/18/2005 12:48:05 AM # Q
I have a 60GB iPod Photo and love it. I use it to play music, show photos, off load photos in the field from my cameras, and as an external hard drive at home and on the road.

I have a T|T and love it just as much (replaced my Palm V). It goes with me everywhere and helps me in almost everything. The size and ruggedness is perfect. I can even send files directly to my PowerBook using bluetooth without having to sync.

I just don't see what a 4GB drive gets you in a PDA, its too small to be a real audio, video image repository, and it makes the LifeDrive too big to be a truly personal device. Especially when you could probably use a CF slot and used a new 8GB high performance CF card instead. And still keep the design small and tight.

RE: Way too big...
justauser @ 5/18/2005 1:16:13 AM # Q
I've gotta disagree with you on form factor. Personally I find the look of this thing very appealing (even more so than my T3). As for size, these days mobile devices are not shrinking. Looks like Palm has worked out that in today's technology market 'bigger is better'. That's why mobile phones are getting bigger with bigger screens and more features (remember Zoolander's phone? Small WAS better but not any more). I agree that I'd prefer to see something slimmer for practical reasons. However, there is something 'ipodish' about this design that makes it look pretty cool.

by ggeoffre
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:10:23 AM # Q
I have a 60GB iPod Photo and love it. I use it to play music, show photos, off load photos in the field from my cameras, and as an external hard drive at home and on the road.

How much did u get it for? No critics, just curious.

.

I just don't see what a 4GB drive gets you in a PDA, its too small to be a real audio, video image repository, and it makes the LifeDrive too big to be a truly personal device. Especially when you could probably use a CF slot and used a new 8GB high performance CF card instead. And still keep the design small and tight.

That's the idea with audio. Ppl who want "real audio" get an ipod. All others are content with 1GB to 3GB of music.
For x2 the CF capacity at 8GB, those cost around $700. 4GB CF costs around $400 or so. In the end, it comes close for a PDA + BIG CF card.

[signature0]
the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse
[/signature0]

[signature1]
My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 5 of 6 screws still remaining) --> zodiac 2?
[/signature1]

RE: Way too big...
Surur @ 5/18/2005 4:05:25 AM # Q

The cheapest 4GB Cf card (not microdrive) is $259. This should halve in the next year, and certainly be around $200 in the next 6 months.

http://www.shopperwiz.com/shopdisplaydetail.asp?id=97033852&Ref=FROOGLE&ts=20050517&Key=221010767&L=005

Also it seems P1's battery life claims were widely overblown. 4 hours playing music with the screen off, and 104 minutes playing video of the microdrive. I wonder where the three days with dual wireless on comes from. Is it when the OS automatically switches if off after 10 minutes?

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2525&review=palmOne+LifeDrive

Surur

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/19/2005 12:16:40 AM # Q
>>I have a 60GB iPod Photo and love it. I use it to play music, show photos, off load photos in the field from my cameras, and as an external hard drive at home and on the road.

>How much did u get it for? No critics, just curious.

Same MSRP as anyone else hwo purchased directly from an Apple Retail Store the first day it was available.

RE: Way too big...
dsaroff @ 5/19/2005 8:24:20 PM # Q
CNET actually indicates the battery life is significantly better than posted on some other websites:

Battery life was decent. In CNET Labs' tests, playing a looped MP3 playlist, the device petered out after 6 hours, 40 minutes--not bad as far as PDAs goes but below par compared to today's microdrive MP3 players, which average about 15 hours of battery life. We repeated the same test with a video using Kinoma Player and the LifeDrive lasted for 5 hours, 15 minutes.

http://reviews.cnet.com/PalmOne_LifeDrive/4505-3127_7-31383012-5.html?tag=top

And they rated it very good.

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/19/2005 9:39:02 PM # Q
See, I am not so crazy. I have heard (and read) or several individuals looking at the LifeDrive as a replacement for their iPod. Looking at the video capabilities, the PSP is the next most popular choice to replace. It is not quite so apples and oranges anymore. A nice little $199 iPod Mini 4GB, and a $129 Zire 31 along with a $249 PSP for a total of $577 will provide the absolute best of everything you need. Convergence comes at a price. Less than stellar video (screen resolution), shorter battery life when listening to audio, and slow performance (hard drive partition used for RAM).

A nice Tungsten slider format with 1GB of fast memory, updated processor, bluetooth, and the 320x480 screen. Perhaps a little tighter, perhaps a little thinner, and perhaps a little lighter. Keep is small, keep it simple, keep upgrading the specs of the original design.

For those of you seriously considering this device, at least check out the Archos product line (especially their PMA400) and of course the OQO.

RE: Way too big...
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 5:20:05 PM # Q
>>>A nice little $199 iPod Mini 4GB, and a $129 Zire 31 along with a $249 PSP for a total of $577 will provide the absolute best of everything you need. Convergence comes at a price. Less than stellar video (screen resolution), shorter battery life when listening to audio, and slow performance (hard drive partition used for RAM).

What rubbish.

First, enjoy the stares from civilians as you strut around in your gorky Scott eVest or Batman utility belt.

Second, no lag time with that PSP UMD? Riiiight.

Third, check the screen specs between that PSP vs the LD and then come back and clarify *which* has the "less than stellar video [screen resolution]."

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/20/2005 9:43:08 PM # Q
The comparison was not based on specs, but based on holding a PSP and holding a T5. Granted the LiveDrive may have a different screen, so I will have to hold off final judgement until that time. But I did feel that the PSP had an impressive screen compared to that of the T5. Besides, 480/16*9=270 not 320. The screen on the PSP is sharp!

RE: Way too big...
ackmondual @ 5/20/2005 11:31:23 PM # Q
See, I am not so crazy. I have heard (and read) or several individuals looking at the LifeDrive as a replacement for their iPod. Looking at the video capabilities, the PSP is the next most popular choice to replace. It is not quite so apples and oranges anymore. A nice little $199 iPod Mini 4GB, and a $129 Zire 31 along with a $249 PSP for a total of $577 will provide the absolute best of everything you need. Convergence comes at a price. Less than stellar video (screen resolution), shorter battery life when listening to audio, and slow performance (hard drive partition used for RAM).

I'm with Mikecane on this. Simply b/c i prefer just to carry around one device rather than 3 or 4. I only have so many pockets and clip on cases. I've got a PDA that covers music, video, photos, PIMs, games, Office, utilities, and reference. Another that is my cellphone. Some ppl will want the best of all departments while others want the convenience of convergence

And I would hardly call a z31 the best at PDA. Not b/c it isn't some $500 LD, but IMHO, the screen looks ugly. May be b/c im used to hi-res screens. I'd say upgrade the z31 to at least a T|E. MSRP is $200, but a new T|E for $160 isn't too far out if bought elsewhere, which bumps us to $610 or so

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/21/2005 12:21:53 PM # Q
In that case, the best combination that the current market has to offer is the Palm Treo 650 with the Archos PM400 (possibly add a Canon Digital Elph Powershot). Seriously, take a look at what Archos has to offer. Palm's best convergence device is the Treo, not the LifeDrive. So if convergence is truly the goal, the LifeDrive is not the answer. I truly do not feel that Palm delivered with this one, and that early adopters will be less than happy with their purchase. But if you replace your $500 PDA once a year anyway, go ahead and give this one a run for the money.

BTW, I was also very disappointed with the T5, I did not feel that it delivered the truly best of breed for a stand alone (non-convergence) PDA.

RE: Way too big...
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 12:26:36 PM # Q
I haven't seen a live P2P yet (just units in windows), so I'm going by the specs and what reviews I've read. Even so, just look at the *size* of both of them. If anything deserves to be called a brick, it's the P2P. That might be a fine size for a game unit, but no way could that be carried in my shirt pocket like a PDA.

As for video, I'd rather not have to pay *twice* for video -- once for DVD and then for UMD. With a PDA, I can have the legal DVD and either "illegally" rip it or seek the DiVXed AVI or MPEG rip of it on a P2P net (sneering at the MPAA!).

As for music exclusively, an iPod is still the best choice.

RE: Way too big...
ggeoffre @ 5/21/2005 12:44:55 PM # Q
Given the battery life, and the task of converting video onto the LifeDrive, I just do not see people using it as a movie player. The novelty will wear off after the first week or two for the majority of LifeDrive owners. Attempts will be made to manage a music library on the LifeDrive, but I seriously doubt that over the long haul, many true music enthusiasts with more than 4GB of music will bother to keep managing their LifeDrive, and it will soon no longer be their primary music device, they will drag back out their iPods. So what will be left for the average LifeDrive owner? Just the core PDA capabilities, and possibly use as an external drive (is that possible)?

The original justification for bringing the PSP into the mix was that I feel that the same market that is willing to pay $500 for a LifeDrive is also part of the market that is willing to pay $250 for a PSP. This cross over market will be comparing the two devices. This same market most likely already has an iPod, and is thinking that they may be able to leave it at home after purchasing the LifeDrive.


Reply to this comment

Best Palm Yet plus suggestions

jbeedham @ 5/18/2005 12:30:54 AM # Q
This is definitely the best palm yet and will plan on buying one.

However, I think Palm should ditch the 4GB Microdrive and just give give us a compact flash slot. Is that so hard Palm? Are you guys listening?

They probably could knock $50 - $100 off the price if they did that. Imagine how many more of them they could sell at a lower price? It makes me wonder if Palm is cheating and has just integrated a Compact Flash card inside the unit to give us the 4GB Microdrive.

-------------------------------------------------------
Proud owner of a Sony TJ-37!

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
eston @ 5/18/2005 1:39:06 AM # Q
I was going to buy a Treo 650, but this thing looks absolutely killer. Now what am I to do???

Wait a second: Did I just say that I had to CHOOSE between PALM OS devices? What the hell is this? 2001? Palm's never had two decent devices out at the same time for a user like me since then.

If this thing's Quality Control is up to spec, we may have one hell of a device- and company- here.

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:15:38 AM # Q
to me, I've always had a choice among pOS devices (NOT necessarily just P1 handhelds). But my tastes are simplier. I don't need BT nor wifi.

Over a year ago, it was between a z71, T|E, or the latest batch of Clie's at the time. Got the z71 for the SD card slot and digicam. Also figured P1 handhelds are more friendly towards running games.

Now, if my T3 were to die, it'd be between a zod2, another T3 if i could find one, or a LD

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 3:36:30 AM # Q
I'm concerned from a marketing standpoint about the video playback. It sounds like the ideo player is some kind of wimpy P1 media app? If this device is not robust enough for the masses to easily x-fer video, then she'll be left on eBay for us geeks only. Leaving off proper power-video crunching / playback software is disasterous to a "Mobile Manager"!

Reminds me of the T|T release w/out RealPlayer! Can anyone else speak more about this?



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
a3 @ 5/18/2005 9:45:40 AM # Q
Go ahead and chech the review at http://www.mobiletechreview.com/palmone-LifeDrive.htm It speaks quite well about the video player. An excerpt: "The application is fast even when loading thumbnails and viewing images from an SD card that had fifty five 2.5 meg JPEG images taken with our Pentax *ist DS 6.1 MP digital SLR camera. Given that my iPAQ hx4700 with 624 MHz Intel XScale processor is slow to view and rotate the same images, I'm impressed with palmOne's work here. "

____________________________________________________
Current fan of a 480x640 tablet shaped Palm with built in BT+Wifi for less than US$400
RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:29:05 AM # Q
Great, but I'm talking video.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
Altema @ 5/18/2005 2:40:01 PM # Q
Well, if the OEM app is poor at playing video, there's alway the Core Pocket Media Player (TCPMP). They are still working on the polish, but the performance rocks. Full screen video on a T3 at 60FPS in portrait mode, 56.6FPS in widescreen landscape... and that's at the normal 400Mhz, no overclocking.

If the T3 can manage that, the LD should do as well.

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
rsc1000 @ 5/19/2005 12:41:23 AM # Q
Can't say enough about ho9w great the core player is - i grab a video that is double the res and it scales it without losing frames - no conversion necessary. I do this and ussually have overclocking on my t3. the ld should probably oc fine (though i am worried about the battery)
RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:20:49 PM # Q
rsc,

I'm not talking about geeks like us having the ABILITY to run videos on overclocked, DVD hack videos through a 20 step process. I'm talking about whether PalmOne made this a "one-step" video x-fer process where the average "iPod like" user can EASILY put there DVDs or videos here for mobile use.

If this is a pain or video is not smooth, then the Mobile Manager is a waste of time.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 1:52:43 PM # Q
>>>If this is a pain or video is not smooth, then the Mobile Manager is a waste of time.

Yeah. What he said.

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
rsc1000 @ 5/20/2005 8:17:22 PM # Q
Well, all my video transfer on my T3 is an easy one step process: i transfer the file to my SD card and then open it with TCPMP (the core player). Done. In fact - I refuse to re-encode. If you have to re-encode it is not a real vid player by my estimate. A 266mhz PC can run most video formats just fine and I expect the same from a 400 (or 416) mhz device - and TCPMP does it quite well. Even without OCing I find that a lot of videos encoded at 640 x whatever, playback AND with the scaling down to 320 x480 at a very acceptable framerate. No - it won't play every thing my PC does and won't play videos encoded at a high bitrate as smooth, but it passes the main test: i download episodes of my favorite tv shows using KazaaLite, i stick them on my sd card and voila. No re-encode (thats too much work IMO). Obviously it doesn't do WMV (no surprise there), but the other popular video formats and codecs are supported.

Where to get legal video?
Surur @ 5/20/2005 8:34:32 PM # Q

This video player thing is fine, but arnt you afraid of being prosecuted by the copyright police. I certainly would not want to lose my job and my house over a stupid TV program.

I would love a legal download service at $1 per show.

Surur

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
ggeoffre @ 5/20/2005 10:20:38 PM # Q
And what part of the "easy as iPod crowd" is using KazaaLite to download television programs? I think that the original point still stands. How easy will this be for the non geek crowd? And where will they get their source material? Pre-Owned DVDs? Blockbuster? DV Camcorders?

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 12:09:21 AM # Q
Legal download service at $1 per show? Not bloody likely. That's how much music already costs per song. I keep hearing people say that iTunes should really be charging no more than 50cents per song and lighten up on the DRM.

As for how to get their legit video collection onto their SD cards or microdrives, they can post here for help on that. They already do that for help getting their music from CDs, hardrives, cassettes onto SD cards. I'm sure there's freeware software to help them with video xfers.

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
Surur @ 5/21/2005 4:11:44 AM # Q

$1 per show is quite reasonable. They are probably making much less than that per person in advertising. When they sell the DVD collection of shows they probably also charge about as much. Unlike music you would probably only watch a show one or two times, therefore it has less value that a nice song, which you may listen to 10-50 times.

Ripping your own DVD's is easy, but if you had seen it already on your wide screen TV, whats the point of seeing it again?

Surur

RE: Best Palm Yet plus suggestions
rsc1000 @ 5/21/2005 11:18:48 AM # Q
>>$1 per show is quite reasonable.

Agreed - though as this service does not exist I will take my chances with "copyright police". I'm Canadian and as we already pay a small % levy on all recordable media to go towards compensating the music/tv/movie industry, this all falls under a 'not-illegal' grey area here. The copyright police are not allowed to obtain info from your ISP for this here. Anyways - getting off topic...

Reply to this comment

Order Placed

bkirchhoff @ 5/18/2005 12:42:17 AM # Q
I just placed my order. Can't wait to get my hands on one. However had a couple of issues:

- No free overnight shipping
- Hard Case is temporarily out of stock
- Estimated to ship in 7 to 14 business days

Anyone else encounter similar issues?

RE: Order Placed
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 12:54:39 AM # Q
Yeah, Circuit City will have em' in the morning. :-)

Give us a review as soon as she arrives!!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Order Placed
Servo @ 5/18/2005 1:11:35 AM # Q
I just got off the phone with a sales rep. The free shipping won't kick in on the website until 7am, but if you call them the rep can set you up with free shipping now.
Reply to this comment

Native Acrobat?

Luka @ 5/18/2005 12:45:30 AM # Q
From the article:
"With support for native Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Adobe Acrobat Reader".

But, alas, from the palmOne Store:
"Acrobat files require conversion step."

I was excited for a moment: or have I missed anything recently?

RE: Native Acrobat?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 1:25:03 AM # Q
Acrobat Reader for Palm OS is the most pitiful app I've seen on a modern device.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Native Acrobat?
justauser @ 5/18/2005 1:57:27 AM # Q
Agreed - I don't think Adobe have bothered developing this since the release of any 320x480 device.

On the other hand, I rather like RepliGo. This does a wonderful job of reproducing anything you can print in the format that its printed (conversion to Repligo pretty seamless via a phantom-printer - can't read native formats). Nice features added to the latest version that makes it very easy to read an A4 document on a T3. I know it's been around for a while, but I've only just tried it. I don't know why it doesn't get raved about. I know it's only a viewer but it potentially could do for Palm what pdf format did for PCs.

RE: Native Acrobat?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:14:18 AM # Q
Repligo must get a try from me. thanks.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Native Acrobat?
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:19:20 AM # Q
Wait, so what are our choices for reading PDF files other than the pitiful Acrobat Reader for Palm?

Repligo requires conversion displays PDF and other file types well?

Anything else that can preferrably:
-handle native PDF files
-retain all tables and images
-not require conversion
-multiple levels of zooming?

RE: Native Acrobat?
palmdoc88 @ 5/18/2005 7:54:50 AM # Q
Yes. Adobe Acrobat for Pocket PC :P

T3 & T5 user
RE: Native Acrobat?
justauser @ 5/18/2005 8:02:50 AM # Q
Adobe Acrobat for PPC doesn't do a good job of reproducing formats of native pdfs. In fact they have a converter too to resize pdfs for a PPC. My PPC mates complain about it anyway.
(1) Nothing handles native pdf on Palm - not even Adobe's Palm App.
(2) Repligo retains everything. In fact, it creates the most faithful replication of a desktop formated document that I've seen on any PDA app. The viewer is free (including the PC & Palm vrs – I think there is a PPC viewer too). You have to buy the converter.
(3) I think it's a bit misleading to suggest that this converts the documents. Rather it creates an image of the documents that the viewer can read. You cannot edit the images it creates. However you can highlight text and add notes.
(4) Nice zooming and navigation features on the Palm viewer - also a viewing option that wraps text to suit the PDA screen if the document you're viewing contains text.

Of course, I'm sure that you're probably wanting the ability to receive a pdf wirelessly and read it in native format. You may have to wait until Adobe do some more development.

RE: Native Acrobat?
Galley_SimRacer @ 5/18/2005 8:40:41 AM # Q
RepliGo can convert any printable document for viewing on a wide variety of platforms. And it's only $30!!!
http://www.cerience.com/

--
"I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet".
Galley
RE: Native Acrobat?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:30:17 AM # Q
Readable yes. If your Axim has a VGA screen that is 7" wide! Let's see where's that Breakthrough Stretch Display PalmOne had?

VGA is fabulous on the WinMobs, but only so much info can physically be viewed on one that's 4" or less. The typical VGA (non HP 4700) or HVGA is still the size of a credit card. All the frontal area of a device makes it look larger.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Native Acrobat?
rasty @ 5/18/2005 2:41:58 PM # Q
I also love RepliGo, definitely one of the best viewers around thanks to its printer driver!

RE: Native Acrobat?
Altema @ 5/18/2005 2:49:49 PM # Q
Does anyone think it's strange that the "Portable Document Format" is such a headache on anything portable?

Desktop PCs, Macs, PPCs, and Palms all do Word, JPEG, GIF, and TIFF, so what purpose does the PDF serve, other than $ for Adobe?

RE: Native Acrobat?
phoneboy @ 5/18/2005 10:03:01 PM # Q
My favorite PDF viewer is Pixel, which came on my Clie (RIP). It shows amazing detail on every PDF I view, no matter the complexity or size. I can open and view pdf manuals 100s of pages long. On top of that it lets me view .doc, .xls, and a handful of picture formats!

I wonder how quickly Pixel would run on a 416 MHz XScale vs. my poky Clie?

RE: Native Acrobat?
phoneboy @ 5/18/2005 10:29:14 PM # Q
Forgot to mention, that's native PDF files.

RE: Native Acrobat?
jbeedham @ 5/20/2005 2:04:10 AM # Q
Pixel came with my Sony TJ-37 and it is one of the best things since sliced bread. It will let you view PDF's, word doc's, images, and a bunch of other stuff. Plus you can zoom in and out. Have the hand move you around like in Adobe Reader and flip the thing around. Awesome program!!!

-------------------------------------------------------
Proud owner of a Sony TJ-37!
RE: Native Acrobat?
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 12:38:28 AM # Q
Does anyone think it's strange that the "Portable Document Format" is such a headache on anything portable?

Desktop PCs, Macs, PPCs, and Palms all do Word, JPEG, GIF, and TIFF, so what purpose does the PDF serve, other than $ for Adobe?

>
lol. Yeah, it's all in the name. We're all too familiar with the Palm "Universal" Connector.

PDFs are big in certain businesses here and there. An acquaintance of mine who works at NPR at DC says PDF files are used alot there for their newsbits and such. Even so, despite Word and Offices' robustness and usefulness, M$ like Adobe is also shooting for $ from those programs.

Reply to this comment

There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review

benjin @ 5/18/2005 12:46:32 AM # Q
http://tinyurl.com/bpv23

Fantastic. I don't think it can be said enough. Fan-freakin-tastic!



RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
viqsi @ 5/18/2005 1:02:07 AM # Q
Aargh! I would appreciate that review a great deal more if it actually used punctuation effectively. As it is it's a real chore to read, given that it consists mostly of absolutely huge run-on sentences that remain largely untouched by commas or semicolons...

One of the more egregious examples follows. This is a single sentence!

"Lets talk about some of the specs of the device let me start with the screen now we have got a fantastic screen here we have a high resolution screen that’s 4.80 x 3.20 now it’s a transflective TFT colour display now this baby actually accommodates both landscape and portrait modes now let me just tell you how this works on the left hand side of the device you have a little button and it is fantastic because you just flick it and it can go from portrait to landscape and vice versa its fantastic it really is and its great if I am looking at an internet page and I want to have a look at the full width of the page I just flick it and then I can immediately get landscape mode it is so, so simple it just does it in front of your eyes its very, very quick it is fantastic."

...and that's not even the biggest one.

--
Of course, I don't know how interesting any of this really is, but now you've got it in your brain cells so you're stuck with it. --Gary Larson

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
benjin @ 5/18/2005 1:14:25 AM # Q
Yeah... sorry if I got you excited. I was trying to be sarcastic. The review covers a lot but the guy has "fantastic" on the brain.

And it doesn't actually tell you anything useful.

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
viqsi @ 5/18/2005 1:22:45 AM # Q
Yarr. Alas, my sarcasm detection is greatly hindered during periods of sleep deprivation. Too bad.

And yet, I'm still tempted to go after that with a red pen. Two red pens, maybe; I might need them both after that monstrosity.

--
Of course, I don't know how interesting any of this really is, but now you've got it in your brain cells so you're stuck with it. --Gary Larson

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 1:26:49 AM # Q
Maybe he used G2 for it! :-)

I don't think he knows what a paragraph is. Frank Wilkinson will have a stroke if he reads this. Especially one of his countrymen!

** Stylus = T3 = Springloaded

** He's wrong about audio streaming. His unit may have it, but P1 says it's an extra $25 for PT Deluxe version. :-(

** Screen must be = to the new FANTASTIC T|E2 screen quality if it's that much > T|C. Wowzers.

** He noticed the width fitting excellent in the hand. Yep, she's thick and long, but the width is going to make holding this in portrait very comfortable. I love the Vx, TE, and T3 (thinnest width), but all three are a little wide for holding very long.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:14:59 AM # Q
RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:26:50 AM # Q
WTF!?! wtf wtf wtf!?! This is a college remedial english 101X caliber article w/o the other half of it.... politically incorrect phrases. I wish i saved this article for work instead. I can't sleep now with all the laughing i did.

You're right on the punctuation. This guy manages to make a run-on sentence drag on for 4 pages (with picture in it at half window width)


RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:34:16 AM # Q
And G2 is no excuse for run on sentences! If anything it should be better as '.', '?', and '!' marks are just as easy, if not easier to make on G2 compared to G1
RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
hbuchtel @ 5/18/2005 4:32:02 AM # Q
I'm thinking it was dictated into the LiveDrive and somebody transcribed it without making any changes . . .

"OK we have audio capabilities, we are able to take voice vocal notes so we can use the microphone to relate any notes that we may want to leave ourselves and I can do this very easily and Lindsey can pick up anything that I have dictated into the device"

Henry

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 1:54:02 PM # Q
Apparently this has not gotten around: Sammy has made no secret that he suffers from dyslexia.

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
viqsi @ 5/19/2005 2:45:08 PM # Q
Ah. Okay.

..but then again, I'm not entirely sure how dyslexia contributes to something like that, aside from it possibly creating issues when proofreading. Both my mother and my sister have it and the worst I ever see is justification for my sister's favorite saying: "Creative Spelling is a prerequisite for Creative Writing."

--
Of course, I don't know how interesting any of this really is, but now you've got it in your brain cells so you're stuck with it. --Gary Larson

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
LiveFaith @ 5/20/2005 9:34:56 AM # Q
Cane,

Are you serious?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 10:22:45 AM # Q
Yes. Sammy is dyslexic and he has a lot of problems putting text together.

RE: There's an absolutely FANTASTIC review
Surur @ 5/20/2005 12:00:37 PM # Q

So why does he not just run his text past a colleague, who could simply have inserted some comas and full stops? Is that so hard.

Palm people are so good at making excuses...

Surur

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 5:28:10 PM # Q
Hey, surur, when will you put us out of your misery and slit your throat? Want me to draw you a map to the best artery?

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
Surur @ 5/20/2005 6:02:43 PM # Q
Are you qualified?

Surur

RE: There's an absolutelt FANTASTIC review
rcartwright @ 5/21/2005 4:01:12 PM # Q
I suspect Mike is... he is always going for the jugular.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
Dyslexia 101
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 5:03:56 PM # Q
I suspect Mike is... he is always going for the jugular.

The jugular is a vein. I hope Lestat gets a hold of yours soon...

Or maybe he already did.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Reply to this comment

Intrusion Protection function = Automatic Zero-Out Reset?!

gfunkmagic @ 5/18/2005 12:45:47 AM # Q
I find that kinda interesting. On the Treo 650/T5, the data on the NVFS is not truely erased clean until you do a Zero-out reset. If you can make the Lifedrive do an automatic zero-out after a specific number of failed logons, then I think that's a pretty neat feature! :)

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Intrusion Protection function = Automatic Zero-Out Reset
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 12:59:26 AM # Q
Agreed,

Today's IT managers (purchasing police) are cracking down more and more on security. It's gotta pass that test to make into the enterprise.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Besides VGA screenie, this has it all....almost...

gfunkmagic @ 5/18/2005 12:50:14 AM # Q
The other thing being the absence of Cobalt of course, but I don't think anyone believes that vaporware will ever see the light of day anymore...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Besides VGA screenie, this has it all....almost...
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 12:55:49 AM # Q
GFunk,

You've returned!!! This is going to be a very successful high end device for PalmOne. Looks excellent in every facet as long as they have not missed the $$$ point.

Anyway, VGA would be nice, but actually HVGA is pretty awesome and has a better aspect ratio for playing movies in landscape. I wonder if the screen uses the same awesome tech as the new TE2?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Besides VGA screenie, this has it all....almost...
drw @ 5/18/2005 1:34:14 AM # Q
T H U M B P A D on subsequent submodel would be nice. Handspring already concluded that thumbpads were more popular than graffiti and they dropped the original treo180g model. Ed Colligan was a founder of handspring, now he's p1 ceo.

I think the size is ok. Shorter and narrower than my tungsten c and barely thicker and heavier. Overall, I applaud their effort and wish them all the best.

---
David

RE: Besides VGA screenie, this has it all....almost...
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:35:48 AM # Q
Again, i like to think it's what you do with the pixels that count, not how many you have, but those with good counter arguments would certainly beg to differ. Eh, who knows, maybe P1's got Super VGA in the works :p

I've never really believed in Cobalt either. If ya want Cobalt, get it here. It's not by PalmSource, but at least you can still say you have Cobalt with a straight face.
http://www.chevrolet.com/cobalt/

Reply to this comment

Is the FIND bug fixed?

neilmitchell @ 5/18/2005 1:41:59 AM # Q
Has Palm released another buggy Palm or did they fix the limit on finding the first 8 contacts? Can someone who has their hands on one enter 9 contacts into their contacts database with the letter A in them and do a find on the letter A and see if the FIND MORE comes up with the correct 2nd screen?

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > (back to) T|T3

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:18:00 AM # Q
I don't have that prob on my T3. Is it only an OS 5.4+ prob?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
neilmitchell @ 5/18/2005 2:30:26 AM # Q
Yep - the T|E2 has this problem and my T3 did not (thats why I sent my E2 back and carried on using my dieing T3)...can someone put me out of my missery and let me know if this was fixed in the LD?

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > (back to) T|T3

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
Admin @ 5/18/2005 2:10:54 PM # Q
YES, the find bug is resolved and you can find more than 8 contacts per search.
RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 2:29:04 PM # Q

Does the Find show actual dates with the results when searching through Calendar like the T3?



RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
neilmitchell @ 5/18/2005 2:53:10 PM # Q
Thank-you "Admin". This was the deal killer for me. If this is fixed I just need to convince myself on the physcial size...

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > (back to) T|T3

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
Admin @ 5/18/2005 8:35:22 PM # Q
Gekko - YES, Find does show the date & time for matching events in a search.
RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 9:00:32 PM # Q
Great. This means that T5 owners are just scrood, period, right? No update -- OR soup -- for you!

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:24:22 PM # Q
Gekko! You have no excuse now. Sell those Star Wars collectors items and get the $500 for the LD. We need a real review.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 1:55:53 PM # Q
Tonight's season finale of CSI is apparently being directed by Quentin Tarantino. That will be worth seeing.

Similarly, Gekko, we need *you* to get your mitts on a LifeDrive and burst a blood vessel or two for our amusement and enlightenment in writing about it. That would be worth reading.

Come on -- You Know You Want To!

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
martin_k @ 5/21/2005 12:54:28 AM # Q
Admin - When you say that the Find bug is fixed, are you referring to the LD? Other posts here seem to be referring to other models as well. If this thread is really only about the LD, please do not read on. On the other hand, I would appreciate some insight here.

I just got a E2 and the FIND bug is still there, at least not on my unit. Searches in Contacts stop at one screen and the "Find More" function only redisplays that screen. Are you (or is anyone) aware of any downloadable fix? I am surprised at Palm for this.

Thanks to you all for any assistance.

RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 12:59:15 AM # Q
that scene at the end was sooo his style. He just has to have some kind of blood and/or gore in his works.
RE: Is the FIND bug fixed?
neilmitchell @ 5/21/2005 5:06:05 PM # Q
martink...this is why I asked the CONTACTS FIND bug question as my T3 was on it's last legs and bought an E2 as a "hold over" and experienced the FIND bug (for the first time) here. This thread was LD specific and based on "admins" assurance on the FIND fix I have splashed out on an LD as my T3 is getting progressively worse and while I dislike the Hard Drive & larger form factor I need a replacement and the T5 is a pile of P*o.


Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > (back to) T|T3

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

Reply to this comment

LifeDrive Mobile manager

cajunagent @ 5/18/2005 3:03:15 AM # Q
Read my palm! This baby is smokin! Palm was really lisening to us on this!

RE: LifeDrive Mobile manager
ackmondual @ 5/18/2005 3:40:39 AM # Q
I'm glad the LD is finally out. To mark the event, the second screw of my T3 decided to fall out.
$500 for a LD ain't bad considering that it already looks MUCH better than a T5 for $350 even with wifi card. Lets hope the LD doesn't have any lose ends. Hell, the T3 had them for a while till they were mostly fixed.

I came into the online palm community only recently... around 1.25 years ago. Any1 know just how long pOS users have been requesting something in the likes of a LD?

RE: LifeDrive Mobile manager
DavisC @ 5/20/2005 7:17:54 PM # Q
I've been lurking for two years after I went to the darkside and bought an iPAQ 4100 series device. My God! Finally! I'm going to seriously check the LD out, it sure sounds like I can finally come back to the Palm camp!

Pilot 1000 > PilotPro > PIII > PIIIC > M500 > iPAQ H3600 > T2 > T3 > iPAQiPAQ 4155

Reply to this comment

First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)

Gekko @ 5/18/2005 6:39:06 AM # Q
"The big news with LifeDrive is of course the introduction of an all-new 4GB Hitachi Microdrive. Rather using traditional ROM to store internal OS and embedded applications, LifeDrive uses a built-in hard drive to accommodate everything. When you launch an application, the software and data is written from the hard drive and gets cached. When the Hard drive is active, the amber LED glows to indicate what is happening. However, during these moments of “activity”, LifeDrive lags..sometimes for more than few seconds. At time it performs more like an early Pocket PC device than a Palm. According to PalmOne, the last few applications you access get cached, and will open immediately without any hesitation the next time they’re accessed. Meaning you shouldn’t experience lag time thereafter. This is true, for the most part, but in my tests the Hard drive is accessed nearly all the time, whether I’m opening applications that I have already accessed or sorting through previously accessed data. The bottom line is that you experience a great deal of pausing whenever the hard drive is writing/reading, which makes the overall experience far different from what you may be accustomed to on previous handhelds. On my Tungsten T5 for example, everything you do takes place instantly without any hesitation. If you tap the Calendar icon, the program pops right up on your screen. Do the same task on LifeDrive, the LED comes one and things come to a pause as app gets cached. For most users this won’t be a big deal. But be forewarned, this is not quite like using a Tungsten or Zire."

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/05/review_palmone_3.php

Two More Big Dealbreakers
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 6:56:08 AM # Q
"Though the OS changes are fairly minor, they are apparently enough to render useless the Grafitti 1 hacks developed for the Tungsten T5 and other models running OS 5.4. Just trying to restore classic Grafitti put my unit into a soft-reset loop that required a complete wipe to fix. So much for that time I spent filling the hard drive."

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2525&review=palmOne+LifeDrive

1. G1 Hack/Patch Doesn't work.
2. Crashes sometimes require COMPLETE WIPE OF HARD DRIVE.



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 7:01:51 AM # Q
"With the speed information we have, we can conclude that to fill the entire 3.72 GB available area of the microdrive would take roughly 46 minutes. Not exactly speedy, but presumably most people would load the LD with their files and then leave them there."

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2525&review=palmOne+LifeDrive



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Surur @ 5/18/2005 7:34:42 AM # Q

In a handheld there is a right way and a wrong way to integrate a microdrive. Installing apps you intend to use regularly on a microdrive is just stupid. It should only be reserved for Media and very large data.

Surur

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 7:41:48 AM # Q

>"In a handheld there is a right way and a wrong way to integrate a microdrive. Installing apps you intend to use regularly on a microdrive is just stupid. It should only be reserved for Media and very large data."

AGREED! Put the PIM Apps/Data in *REAL REGULAR RAM* you fuggin dummies!!!!!



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 9:50:03 AM # Q
>>>1. G1 Hack/Patch Doesn't work.

Is this so?! Ah, shyte!!!

specs are a dealmaker
bluedoc @ 5/18/2005 11:27:02 AM # Q
4GB of free space on a LD vs 52MB on a T3. I'll take a second or two lag to write from a microdrive if I can store 75X as much data on a PDA with Wi-fi and Bluetooth. Unless you haven't touched a desktop computer in the last ten years, it isn't that life-altering.

(cue Gekko correcting the calculation of 75X as not being entirely correct and obscuring the main point)

This is a very good-looking unit and I'm ready to upgrade from my T3, provided the early reviews don't reveal that it catches fire or falls apart in a strong wind. There is no such thing as a perfect PDA with every spec you want and no limitations or problems....but there are very very good ones. The T3 was a very very good one, and it looks like this one definitely is as well.

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:44:48 AM # Q
<>

It may be wrong, but it is cheap! T5 worked out all those issues, that is if you call the T5 worked out. It is the simple implement, but absolutely pathetic for the user. If handhelds become as sluggish as a Windows PC, then they are worth little IMO.

"Let me get you their phone number .... hold on while my computer comes up ..." :-(

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 12:02:47 PM # Q

Pat - my Windows XP PC/Dell Notebook is QUITE FAST. Why do you propagate such myths? Palm data access is getting slower while the rest of free world's gets FASTER.

"Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel." - Proverbs 20:17



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
twizza @ 5/18/2005 12:25:25 PM # Q
Quoting LF:
"It may be wrong, but it is cheap! T5 worked out all those issues, that is if you call the T5 worked out. It is the simple implement, but absolutely pathetic for the user. If handhelds become as sluggish as a Windows PC, then they are worth little IMO.

"Let me get you their phone number .... hold on while my computer comes up ..." "

Seriously, I had that happen with the rx3715 too many times. I cant stand the time it takes for it to come out of sleep; and worse looking at a spinning timer when I hit to power button to turn it off. Not kool.

And yes, this could have been done better by palmOne, but if we arent really working for them (unless you count the purchasing of a device being a part of the beta team) then there is not much we can say.

mobileministrymagazine.blogspot.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 12:41:24 PM # Q
>"And yes, this could have been done better by palmOne, but if we arent really working for them (unless you count the purchasing of a device being a part of the beta team) then there is not much we can say."

"There is only one boss, and that is the Customer, and he can fire everybody from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else." - Sam Walton



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:11:57 PM # Q
Not so much as a boss, as a committee or board, and the majority of them have to be in agreement. A little tricky in the US sometimes where "stupid is, as stupid votes".

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
joad @ 5/18/2005 3:25:37 PM # Q
No Graffiti 1, and no way to hack it back in? Beautiful, PalmOne.

I guess Palms will soon just be bricks for watching movies.

Anybody want to start a company that creates PDAs? We can license "Block Recognizer" from whomever M$ gets it from...

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 3:42:25 PM # Q
My Inspiron 5100 2.4ghz, 512MB yadayada takes 25 seconds to come outta sleep even if I wanted to see the time, get a contact etc. If I wanted it to do PDA functions and be ready in 1/2 second, it would still take 2-3 secs and drain the battery in 3 hours waiting to respond.

Go to prefs, ummm Control Panel = hourglass

Open MS-Word = Hourglass

Run Firefox = hourglass

Search for files ... watch the udmb dog do tricks forever! etc etc

Once the gargantuan memory get loaded with progs, they work pretty fast ... it just has to be that perfect world. Sitting on my desktop is pretty close to that most times.

But I'm talking compared to the awesome response of a Tungsten, Zire or even m5xxx PDA. Those are almost instant. PalmOne is slowly but surely leaving this simple and effective arena for the land of the hourglass. I won't like it.

Thanks for the 'Wise Saying" there.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:59:41 PM # Q
"My Inspiron 5100 2.4ghz, 512MB yadayada takes 25 seconds to come outta sleep even if I wanted to see the time, get a contact etc."

Jeeze man. My Apple Powerbook is 3 seconds or less... I can boot from power off in less time than your Dell coming out of sleep. Oh, and ah G4 1.33Ghz, 1GB RAM yadayada.

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Kesh @ 5/18/2005 4:36:04 PM # Q
So, I guess this means Gekko is the guy who refuses to shop in Wal-Mart, but comes into the store every day anyway to loudly proclaim that Wal-Mart sucks and everyone should shop elsewhere. ;)

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 4:47:32 PM # Q

hey lesh - how many Palms have you owned? I've owned EIGHT.

But, thank you very much, we appreciate your comments. *******.



RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
eston @ 5/18/2005 5:49:53 PM # Q
So how many devices you've owned allows you to talk s***t about PalmOne every chance you get?

I've owned at least 15 in the past four years, and I'd like to say that I still think you're good for not much else than complaints. Have you ever anything - ANYTHING - constructive to say? It's always caps-lock and exclamation point city for you.

Get over it, get off the Internet, and if Palm pisses you off *that* much, then I'd say you might as well just go sit in the PPC camp and be happy. Most likely, you bash those devices too.

Oh, I get it. You're one of those users that palmOne couldn't please even if they COULD come up with your dream handheld. You'd still be there to find something wrong with it. Contribute something truly constructive - not a veiled hissy fit - and then maybe I'll take you seriously when you complain. Until then, I think I'll back up anyone else on here, regardless of if they've owned 1 Palm Powered device or 30.

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Kesh @ 5/18/2005 6:24:44 PM # Q
Gekko
hey lesh - how many Palms have you owned? I've owned EIGHT.

Yippie for you. For the record, I've owned six. The Lifedrive will be number seven.

And, yes, this is a discussion forum, Gekko. Sad thing is, you haven't had anything useful to contribute for months. Yet, you keep posting here.

You have no leg to stand on when accusing others of not having anything relevant to say.

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 6:33:43 PM # Q
If you don't like my posts, don't read them. PLENTY of people here (while they may not always agree with them) LIKE my posts.

Whatever you do, just stop whining about MY posts. Just PLEASE post something remotely interesting.

This is my last reply to you two whiners. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life.

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
Kesh @ 5/18/2005 7:01:39 PM # Q
Gekko
This is my last reply to you two whiners. Thanks for wasting 5 minutes of my life.

Pot? Kettle. Nice to meet you.

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 8:08:02 PM # Q
>>>I've owned at least 15 in the past four years

1) Are you clumsy?

2) Did they fall apart within months of purchase?

3) Or are you just a dick with too much money and too little brains? (As is usual for that ilk...)

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
eston @ 5/18/2005 9:31:13 PM # Q
1) Are you clumsy?

2) Did they fall apart within months of purchase?

3) Or are you just a dick with too much money and too little brains? (As is usual for that ilk...)

1. Yes, I'm clumsy, but I've only lost one - a Palm IIIe SE - to that by dropping it on the tile floor. My friend came over, picked up my Visor Neo, and thought it was sweet until he dropped it face first on my hardwood floor. He tried to hide it from me. It's hard to hide a broken glass top.

2. Only a IIIc and a Visor.

3. No, I'm a developer, and the only way to absolutely, positively confirm that something works on each device is to test it yourself on each device. The Garnet simulator and Copilot only go so far. :)

..: eston
http://www.hyalineskies.com/

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
phoneboy @ 5/18/2005 10:52:07 PM # Q
You guys crack me up!

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 9:48:21 AM # Q
>>>3. No, I'm a developer, and the only way to absolutely, positively confirm that something works on each device is to test it yourself on each device. The Garnet simulator and Copilot only go so far. :)

Geez, you guys have my sympathy these days. It must be hell developing for the schizo versions of this OS now!

RE: First Big Dealbreaker: SPEED (or lack thereof)
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:27:41 PM # Q
// Jeeze man. My Apple Powerbook is 3 seconds or less... I can boot from power off in less time than your Dell coming out of sleep. Oh, and ah G4 1.33Ghz, 1GB RAM yadayada. //

cbowers,

You're right. I'm just saying M$ is pathetic. I would make the switch if it do not rock my entire world. Got the Dell free if you can believe that, so it's hard to beat the $$$. I would love to see Apple or Linux destroy M$.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

non removable battery ?

andrewwt @ 5/18/2005 7:48:48 AM # Q
why non-removable battery ? what if the battery dies. Could customer unscrew the palm and replace the battery by himself?



RE: non removable battery ?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:48:12 AM # Q
Yes, but void the warranty, possible static shock the motherboard, or damage the unit while the only advantage would be to replace a non-working cell. Far to slow for carrying an extra.

I can't believe P1 has not seized the replaceable battery deal ... they could make a fortune off extras like Nokia and the rest. Odd?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: non removable battery ?
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:14:55 PM # Q
"what if the battery dies." Well you just clip your Power To Go onto the Universal Connector... oh, wait...

The athena connector should have been built with a bridge adaptor for the universal connector in mind.

RE: non removable battery ?
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:19:31 PM # Q
"I can't believe P1 has not seized the replaceable battery deal ... they could make a fortune off extras like Nokia and the rest. Odd?"

Well it's not like they didn't make some money of the Power-to-go product. It's not unlike carrying around a large spare battery. They trade-off being that you have to leave it on for a period while it recharges. This wouldn't be such a bad way of going if they were able to adopt NEC's "organic radical battery" that can recharge in 30 seconds.

Reply to this comment

Apple's video iPod?

mikecane @ 5/18/2005 9:40:11 AM # Q
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=8560

I am away from the PC most of today. I'll catch up with all the reviews and posts later. (Of course, if I had a LifeDrive, I'd catch up via WiFi sooner...)

RE: Apple's video iPod?
hkklife @ 5/18/2005 10:13:40 AM # Q
Attention Matsushita/Toshiba/Lenovo:

Please buy P1 and Palmsource lock, stock, and barrel and either put the platform out of its misery or sink some serious R&D $ into it.

Barring that: P1, please buy Tapwave and release a proper Zod3 WITHOUT a HD.

This string of disappointments from P1 has been occuring since the release of the T3 with no end in sight. Since you obviously cannot shoehorn a tremendous featureset into a handheld with a decent pricetag, snappy response and good battery life, try to get the T3 specs into an m500 formfactor and we'll be eternally grateful.


RE: Apple's video iPod?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:52:22 AM # Q
Talk about well times leaks! Looks that the menu area ... it looks like the Palm OS silkscreen area. Apple + PalmOne on the NASDAQ!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Apple's video iPod?
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:24:50 PM # Q
"Please buy P1 and Palmsource lock, stock, and barrel and either put the platform out of its misery or sink some serious R&D $ into it."

Well, lock and barrel anyway. The stock might not be worth having by then :-)

Reply to this comment

HOW MUCH??!!!

Masamune @ 5/18/2005 10:31:12 AM # Q
My maths isn't what it used. At present, the Lifedrive is currently going for $499 US. How the hell can PalmOne justify charging UK users $650???? (£329.99)

RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 11:20:55 AM # Q
It's part of their new strategy: Lose marketshare through high pricing!

RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:53:48 AM # Q
Masamune,

It's called socialism! The Sovereign State takes it's rightful pleasures over your possessions before you can have them. Afterall it's for the kids. Where's William Wallace when you all need him!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
Alpha1220 @ 5/18/2005 4:55:58 PM # Q
Actually, what it's called is the failure of the law of one price and absolute purchasing power parity, and the rise of

a) pricing to market
b) the partial failure of exchange rate feed-through

:)

It means Palm figures that (assuming ... hmm this may be a big assumption, that Palm has intelligent economists at work) as a portion of the potential market, Palm thinks they can grab as much of a share of that market in the UK charging an equivalent of $625US as they can grab of the US market charging at $500 US, and that markets won't care a bit (because a handheld makes up such a small portion of UK net imports, so you're a price-taker and currency markets aren't going to do anything about your unhappiness ... and, even if they would, the changes wouldn't necessarily carry through)

My advice? Break the post-neo-Kensyian consensus and use the internet to find a good site where you can get it at $500 US and then ship it over. The dollar is much depreciated against the pound right now anyway.

RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
twalk @ 5/18/2005 6:22:55 PM # Q
#1 In the US, sales tax isn't included in the listed price, but the VAT is included in the UK price.
#2 The VAT is something like 17%, which is most of the list price difference.
#3 80% of Palms are sold in the US, so UK is a pretty minor market.


RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
jon.wever @ 5/18/2005 8:26:59 PM # Q
Try the Australian price then: AU$899!!
At current exchange rates, US$499 is about AU$630. Even with our 10% sales tax on top one might expect a price around the AU$720-750 mark. Hmm...
RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
Patrick @ 5/18/2005 11:52:01 PM # Q
And here I was outraged at the Canadian price of $699, *only* about US $559. I guess we're relatively lucky up here in the Great White North.

RE: HOW MUCH??!!!
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 1:12:22 AM # Q
Most people in the US don't pay sales tax for online orders. Even when they should... they don't :|
Reply to this comment

Speaker?

rasty @ 5/18/2005 11:07:33 AM # Q
Where's the speaker? Again on the back like the T5? :(
RE: Speaker?
Admin @ 5/18/2005 2:07:16 PM # Q
It's located on the top of the back of the unit. Hand grips will not muffle it.

-Ryan

RE: Speaker?
vesther @ 5/18/2005 5:09:56 PM # Q
It *should* be visible enough so that neither the back or a covering sleeve would obscure it.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
Reply to this comment

WHAT?!?

Nusm @ 5/18/2005 11:44:38 AM # Q
No drivers for the Palm WiFi card?!?

RE: WHAT?!?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 11:56:18 AM # Q
Are you joking? Or gonna try and multi-task 2 iterations ofa WiFi connection?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: WHAT?!?
Nusm @ 5/18/2005 1:26:40 PM # Q
Oops! I put sarcasm tags around that, but they were cut off when it posted and I didn't notice!

Yes, I was being completely and udderly obnoxious. (Admitting I have a problem is the first step to recovery!)

RE: WHAT?!?
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:52:09 PM # Q
HeHe. Come on now are you sure. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: WHAT?!?
vesther @ 5/18/2005 5:08:04 PM # Q
The Palm LifeDrive ALREADY has a Wi-Fi Card, so you all you need is a LifeDrive Mobile Manager and you can go to your local Panera Bread, Starbucks Coffee, or FedEx Kinkos and enjoy the freedom of built-in Wi-Fi. Trust me, it's as quick as the Tungsten C, only better because it's now the same screen and sound league as with the unimpressive Tungsten T5.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: WHAT?!?
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:30:25 PM # Q
vesther,

You're cracking me up. Did you actually read the posts?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

$699 in Canada ! :(

HandyMan @ 5/18/2005 12:08:13 PM # Q
Are they nuts? That's over $60 overpriced based on todays exchange rates. If it's not a hit in Cnaada it's because people are cross border shopping it in the USA.



RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 12:14:54 PM # Q

Good! Anytime the Canadians and French are punished, I'm happy.

Bravo Palm! At least you can do *something* right!



RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
gizmoguy @ 5/18/2005 2:37:17 PM # Q
It should have been at the most $649. We still don't know what the street price will be once it's in the stores.

Having said that, Gekko is an idiot.

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:53:11 PM # Q
There you go diplomatting again! :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
InsGuy @ 5/18/2005 5:45:44 PM # Q
"Gekko @ 5/18/2005 12:14:54 PM

Good! Anytime the Canadians and French are punished, I'm happy.

Bravo Palm! At least you can do *something* right!"

Doh! Always one with the quick wit :)!



All good things...

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
Toysoft @ 5/19/2005 11:36:24 AM # Q
Just ordered my at PalmOne canada store. tried buying from US and the guy wouldnt let me ;( had to pay extra International charges cuz its coming from kentukey Argg!! and not GST but I got 20% for developer discount yah!!!!

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
HandyMan @ 5/19/2005 1:05:30 PM # Q
How do you get the developer discount? I'm a registered PalmOS developer.

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
Marconis777 @ 5/19/2005 3:13:13 PM # Q
Futureshop (an electronics retailer up here in Canada) is going to start selling these June 3rd for $749.99 CAN. With taxes and all, it comes down to $858.74 CAN or roughly $690 USD. Whoa! I was going to get this puppy, but I'm not shelling out that much for something that wipes the memory clean on hard reset. I've found a store that still has a T3 for $349 CAN; I'm either doing that, or going for a Toshiba e830 another place has left over (I really would like WiFi). Sure Toshiba has pulled out of the handheld market, but that isn't too different than what we're seeing with Palm ;)

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
XmonkeyX @ 5/19/2005 6:55:47 PM # Q
Why do people hate the French anyway??? WTF did THEY do???

Palm sodomizes Canadians. Who cares?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 10:05:25 PM # Q
Why do people hate the French anyway??? WTF did THEY do???

I think it's more like what DON't they do (think soap and water...)



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
LiveFaith @ 5/20/2005 9:42:15 AM # Q
VR ... man that's harsh! :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 1:16:19 AM # Q
Are they nuts? That's over $60 overpriced based on todays exchange rates. If it's not a hit in Cnaada it's because people are cross border shopping it in the USA.

But we gotta go to you guys for our drugs and flu shots. In the end, it all works out.

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
HandyMan @ 5/21/2005 2:37:40 AM # Q
Futureshop just posted it on their website. $749! That's nuts.

RE: $699 in Canada ! :(
Marconis777 @ 5/21/2005 7:15:02 PM # Q
What's interesting is that at $749, it's $50 cheaper than the HP HX4700, its main rival. There's an electronics retailer here that has some Toshiba e830's left over for $599, which is a comparable model with slightly less memory and speed. My only other options are the HX2410 ($559) and the T5+Wifi Bundle (the surplus T3 was used and offered no guarantees for working). Has anyone who updraded from an E recently have any advice?

Reply to this comment

A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive

Sam H @ 5/18/2005 12:11:10 PM # Q
palmOne today introduced the LifeDrive mobile manager handheld. Designed for people with a significant volume of digital information, the LifeDrive mobile manager offers 4GB of hard-drive storage.

Presumably people with a significant volume of digital information that they don't mind losing should they have to do a hard reset.

Consumers today demand more from their mobile devices as their digital information continues to increase in size and scope.

Let's hope they don't demand a mobile device that doesn't wipe all their data at a drop of a hat.

Many people want easy access to all of their essential documents, email and wireless web access. They want the ability to entertain themselves in a free moment, and to share personalized content, such as photos, home movies or their entire MP3 collection. .

I guess watching all your photos, home movies and MP3s disappear into the electronic ether after a bad crash could be classed as a form of 'entertainment'.

"LifeDrive is versatile. For the business executive, it's a personal mobile briefcase; for the photo enthusiast, it's a camera companion."

One unexpected hard reset later, it's a doorstop.

With LifeDrive, people can easily carry virtually all of their essential desktop computer files and folders. Crucial documents can be set to update automatically at each HotSync operation

That HotSync's going to be getting a lot of use!

Inside the 4GB Hard Drive
LifeDrive mobile manager users can store and access all of the following on a single device:

1,200 office documents;
6,000 emails;
1,000 photos;
300 songs;
2.5 hours of video;
50 voice recordings;
10,000 contacts; and
10,000 appointments.

Imagine it: 1,200 office documents, 10,000 contacts, 10,000 appointments, 50 voice recordings etc; all just one crash and hard reset away from being lost forever.

LifeDrive: What drives you (mad)?

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
palmhiker @ 5/18/2005 1:37:33 PM # Q
The fact that a hard reset wipes the HD is the single biggest reason why I will not be replacing my T-C with this device. The Axim x50v is calling my name, I'm just having a hard time eating the hundreds of dollars in POS apps that I own...

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
DevPOV @ 5/18/2005 2:12:48 PM # Q
The first comment mentions that Hard Resets DO NOT WIPE the data though the comment isn't attributed.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/18/2005 2:23:44 PM # Q
From http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2525&review=palmOne+LifeDrive :

"Unfortunately, there's one other hitch to the whole microdrive deal. Any form of hard-reset will erase the entire contents of the hard drive, without exception. When you issue the command for a hard reset, you're given two options: a fast erase that takes 5 minutes, and a "secure erase" that takes 30 minutes. Given that the Lifedrive has government-use security certification, a secure erase presumably entails zeroing out all the data on the drive so that it can't be restored or recovered. Either way, you can't simply reset the device and expect to have your files waiting when it boots. And the days of being able to restore from a hard reset with a single HotSync are over. The very nature of the LD's storage capacity renders moot any idea of backing up to an SD card, which could hold at most a quarter to a half of the drive's capacity."

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Altema @ 5/18/2005 3:27:23 PM # Q
Those two choices are for hard resets. Soft resets leave all data intact.

I suspect the hard reset clearing the drive is tied to the security features as mentioned by the previous post. The anti-hack protection, which is intended to wipe the device to protect your data, would be viewed as useless if it wiped RAM/ROM but left all your files sitting on the drive.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:45:55 PM # Q
Boggling as the only thing needed to be reformatted is the 64MB partition.

Who's right and who's wrong - AdmABrown or PalmOne?
ChiA @ 5/18/2005 4:47:47 PM # Q
AdamABrown says it wipes the drive after a hard reset but PalmOne itself states that the LifeDrive data remains intact after a hard reset:

http://tinyurl.com/84cgx

Just what is the truth in the matter?

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
vesther @ 5/18/2005 4:59:22 PM # Q
That is why you always have to make sure you back up ALL of your criticals (Not just HotSync, but also copy the Drive Mode Contents onto your computer) at least once a week. That's a carryover from the Tungsten T5.

Powered by Palm OS since March 2002
RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
palmhiker @ 5/18/2005 5:09:51 PM # Q
Yes, backing up is wise. However, backing up and restoring 4 GB of data is a far different matter than backing up 64 MB of RAM to an SD card.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
InsGuy @ 5/18/2005 5:49:24 PM # Q
palmhiker @ 5/18/2005 1:37:33 PM
The fact that a hard reset wipes the HD is the single biggest reason why I will not be replacing my T-C with this device. The Axim x50v is calling my name, I'm just having a hard time eating the hundreds of dollars in POS apps that I own...

Went from an m515 to the X50v. It was nice, but missed POS, so went "back" to the Z2. One thing if you are serious about your POS apps, try styletap. I was able to use MOST of my POS apps on my X50v (only one I had trouble with was docs to go). I just found that it took too many taps or strokes to get to the info I wanted; however, it is an AWESOME pda, but does way more than I need. IMO :)

All good things...

NO, HARD RESET DOES NOT WIPE THE DRIVE
Dr Opinion @ 5/18/2005 7:02:06 PM # Q
Jeez, morons, put down the pizza and read the palmone site:

"Your data stays safe."

"All your information - including music, photos and documents - is safe. If you forget to recharge, or perform a hard reset, none of your information will be lost. All you have to do is recharge to regain access to your information."

http://www.palmone.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/lifedrive/harddrive.epl

How much is MS paying people to troll palm sites nowadays?

------------------------------
"People who troll for MS tend to be sad lonely dudes who need to get a life"

"...I looked up "antediluvian", and they had a picture of a Pocket PC." ;)

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/18/2005 7:56:15 PM # Q
"Imagine it: 1,200 office documents, 10,000 contacts, 10,000 appointments, 50 voice recordings etc; all just one crash and hard reset away from being lost forever."

No kidding...my Microsoft DOS/Windows based PCs have been crushing for over 20 years, not to mention all the virus and other software issues.

My questions to you are:

- are you and others still using Microsoft Windows based PCs?
- And Why? Aren't you just one crash and reformat away from losing all the information?



RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Scott R @ 5/18/2005 8:19:20 PM # Q
Actually, we've been chatting about this in our forums as well. See this thread:
http://www.tapland.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5216

According to their user manual, it sure sounds to me like a hard reset will erase all data on the 4GB HD. Certainly, they're sending mixed messages with that other quote and they need to make this one clear.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/18/2005 9:01:35 PM # Q
No kidding...my Microsoft DOS/Windows based PCs have been crushing for over 20 years, not to mention all the virus and other software issues.

My questions to you are:

- are you and others still using Microsoft Windows based PCs?

Personally? Nope, Linux.

- And Why? Aren't you just one crash and reformat away from losing all the information?

When you hard boot a PC it doesn't wipe the hard drive.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/18/2005 10:49:09 PM # Q
"Personally? Nope, Linux."

Are you implying that Linux never crashes? And the 95% of people who use Microsoft Windows must be asking for trouble then. How stupid of them!!!

"- And Why? Aren't you just one crash and reformat away from losing all the information?

When you hard boot a PC it doesn't wipe the hard drive."

I didn't say hard boot...I said crash and reformat a PC drive. And a soft/warm reset on Palm doesn't wipe out the hard drive either.


RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
The Voice of Doubt @ 5/19/2005 12:19:32 AM # Q
Let's get a couple of things straight here:

1. A hard reset can be *UNINTENTIONAL* and can be caused by applications. Meaning that you could think everything is all and well one day, until you turn on your lifedrive, run the calendar app, and you get a fatal error. You tap OK. It shows the Palm screen, and you have a HARD RESET. The contnts of your 4 gigabyte hard drive is all lost. So it isn't just intentional on the users part to do a hard reset, but it can occur randomly and spontaneously too. Add to that the instability of OS 5.4, and you've got chaos on your hands. Imagine losing 10,000 appointment entries and your whole life. That's not worth it

2. To respond to what "Dr. Opinion" said:
"Jeez, morons, put down the pizza and read the palmone site:
"Your data stays safe."

What the PalmOne site refers to is if your battery power goes dead, you won't lose your data. This has NOTHING to do with hard resets and what I mentioned before. Please think before posting irrelevant material

---------------



"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceded our humanity" - ALBERT EINSTEIN

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/19/2005 4:42:30 AM # Q
Are you implying that Linux never crashes?

Nope.

And the 95% of people who use Microsoft Windows must be asking for trouble then.

More like 90% actually. And since you mention it, yes they are. But most of them don't really have a choice so it's not their fault.

"Aren't you just one crash and reformat away from losing all the information?"

When you hard boot a PC it doesn't wipe the hard drive.

"I didn't say hard boot...I said crash and reformat a PC drive. And a soft/warm reset on Palm doesn't wipe out the hard drive either."

A user's software crashing can lead to a hard reset on a Palm. But a user's software crashing on a PC won't lead to a reformat of the hard drive (unless you've been deliberately mucking about with something you shouldn't).

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
patchwork @ 5/19/2005 9:45:23 AM # Q
There are two types of reset - soft and hard.

A soft reset reboots the device with no data loss and occurs in one of two types of instances.

In the first instance, an application crashes and a dialog is thrown on the Palm Powered device indicating that an error has occurred. There is one button in the dialog, labelled "Reset" that may or may not be responsive. Tapping this button initiates a soft reset.

In the second instance, pressing the reset button on the device also initiates a soft reset, or reboot, of the device.

A hard reset is a reboot which also deletes contents of device RAM. It cannot be initiated by a software crash and requires deliberate action by the user.

To initiate a hard reset, the user must press and hold the power button on the device, and then press the reset button. When the power button is released, a screen is displayed on the device asking the user to press the up button to delete all data and any other button to continue. It is only when the up button is pressed that a hard reset is performed and the RAM is flushed. Otherwise, a soft reset is performed.

Mike, maybe you can clarify here, but I personally have not seen or read of any instance where an application crash has occurred, and the device resets and deletes device RAM.

Voice of Doubt, unless you bring proof of your assertion, you're starting to sound more like a Voice of FUD.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 9:46:08 AM # Q
>>>1. A hard reset can be *UNINTENTIONAL* and can be caused by applications. Meaning that you could think everything is all and well one day, until you turn on your lifedrive, run the calendar app, and you get a fatal error. You tap OK. It shows the Palm screen, and you have a HARD RESET. The contnts of your 4 gigabyte hard drive is all lost. So it isn't just intentional on the users part to do a hard reset, but it can occur randomly and spontaneously too. Add to that the instability of OS 5.4, and you've got chaos on your hands. Imagine losing 10,000 appointment entries and your whole life. That's not worth it.

+++ horrific flashbacks to my early days with the TE and its spontaneous hard resets +++

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/19/2005 10:44:40 AM # Q
A hard reset is a reboot which also deletes contents of device RAM. It cannot be initiated by a software crash and requires deliberate action by the user.

Yes, but a user may have to deliberately do a hard reset after a software crash to regain control of the machine.

I personally have not seen or read of any instance where an application crash has occurred, and the device resets and deletes device RAM.

No, but after some software crashs a user may have no choice but to do a hard reset.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/19/2005 12:24:58 PM # Q
"A hard reset is a reboot which also deletes contents of device RAM. It cannot be initiated by a software crash and requires deliberate action by the user.

Yes, but a user may have to deliberately do a hard reset after a software crash to regain control of the machine.

I personally have not seen or read of any instance where an application crash has occurred, and the device resets and deletes device RAM.

No, but after some software crashs a user may have no choice but to do a hard reset."

Sam, isn't it also true that an app crash can cause damages to the system files on a Windows PC, resulting in boot failure? Then your average users may not have a choice but to reformat and rebuild the drive?

If you are really worried about single point of failure on any computing device, LifeDrive or PC, the answer is to have a periodic backup solution in place, not dismissing a device completely. Have you ever been to a well-planned data center that doesn't have a comprehensive backup solution because their computers never fail?

And guess what, that's why Palm PDAs all have the hotsync function.


RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
The Voice of Doubt @ 5/19/2005 12:27:21 PM # Q
<< Voice of Doubt, unless you bring proof of your assertion, you're starting to sound more like a Voice of FUD. >>

Whatever yuh soca dancing, curry eating Trini. (aka Guyanese wannabe) You should be listening to sparrow music, not doing intellectual things like using PDAs.

FYI, an application can cause BOTH soft resets and hard resets. This is fact, not fiction. If you doubt this, then you never got an intentional hard reset then NOT caused by you, the user. I've lost my data several times due to unintentional hard resets, so there.



"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceded our humanity" - ALBERT EINSTEIN

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
jlshelton @ 5/19/2005 1:34:29 PM # Q
I've been a Palm user for 5+ years and have never lost data due to unintentional hard reset. Nevertheless, I hot-sync nearly every day, as should most users. Handheld gadgets are inherently losable, droppable, etc, and can't be easily designed otherwise. (Perhaps you could build one with lots of foam rubber padding, and a chain to connect to your ankle....)

Use the product as intended, with frequent hot-syncing, and you won't lose any valuable data.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/19/2005 1:52:58 PM # Q
isn't it also true that an app crash can cause damages to the system files on a Windows PC, resulting in boot failure? Then your average users may not have a choice but to reformat and rebuild the drive?

Can do, but on Windows XP it's *very* rare.

If you are really worried about single point of failure on any computing device, LifeDrive or PC, the answer is to have a periodic backup solution in place, not dismissing a device completely. Have you ever been to a well-planned data center that doesn't have a comprehensive backup solution because their computers never fail?

The issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. Once in a blue moon an app crash will take out your WinXP system files. Very occasionally a hard drive will suffer mechanical failure. Hard resets on Palms occur a lot more frequently than either of those.

And guess what, that's why Palm PDAs all have the hotsync function.

Have fun hotsyncing 4GB of data every week.

I've been a Palm user for 5+ years and have never lost data due to unintentional hard reset.

Well aren't you the lucky one. ;-)

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 2:01:02 PM # Q
>>>I personally have not seen or read of any instance where an application crash has occurred, and the device resets and deletes device RAM.

"You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! STUPID!!" (Ed Wood Jr, Plan 9 From Outer Space -- or Graverobbers From Outer Space, before the Christians put up the $$$)

I've had it happen with the TE. I can't recall which fekkin piece of software did it; the event was too traumatic. Had to go without my data for an entire weekend.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
patchwork @ 5/19/2005 7:28:24 PM # Q
An application crash, and I've had them happen on all my Palms from III to T|T, may seem to require a user to perform a hard reset because the problematic application won't allow the device to start smoothly. You end up in a crash loop, or boot loop.

That said, I'm simply saying that I've never seen an application crash, the device resets itself, and when it comes back, the contents of device RAM is gone.

Research suggests, and I've heard of this but never done one, that there is also a System, or Warm, Reset that can be performed when you end up in a boot loop. See the following URL on PalmOne's Support site that goes into these three - soft, hard and warm - and a few others.

http://tinyurl.com/6c9tk

According to PalmOne's Support site, a warm reset is an incomplete soft reset that restarts the system but doesn't reinitialise the applications. It seems that it is the reinitialisation of a truly problematic application that causes the boot loop to occur. When the warm reset is performed though, the user can backup the device and then try to determine which application is the errant one.

It's a little late at this stage, Mike, but 79bmedia has an application that may have allowed you to diagnose on the fly, and then remove the problem app if you didn't want to go through them one by one. http://www.79bmedia.com/resetemu/index.html

And finally, Voice of Doubt, grow up.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 8:52:28 PM # Q
>>>That said, I'm simply saying that I've never seen an application crash, the device resets itself, and when it comes back, the contents of device RAM is gone.

Listen: I'm telling you that it *spontaneously* hard reset. I either launched an app or invoked a command within an app and suddenly there was the fekkin PALM logo screen -- and NO DATA! I got the damned screens you get when you take the unit out of the box -- calibrate the screen, set the date, etc, etc!

NO crash utility could have helped -- it would have been WIPED with everything else!

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Dr Opinion @ 5/19/2005 9:21:35 PM # Q
Sigh. Let's just make it perfectly clear that "voice of doubt" is actually a troll. I'll post the quote and link to PalmOne's site *again*:

"Your data stays safe."

"All your information - including music, photos and documents - is safe. If you forget to recharge, or [b]perform a hard reset[/b], none of your information will be lost. All you have to do is recharge to regain access to your information."

http://www.palmone.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/lifedrive/harddrive.epl

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 10:13:56 PM # Q
but I personally have not seen or read of any instance where an application crash has occurred, and the device resets and deletes device RAM.

Your ignorance does not change the fact that apps can crash Palms so badly that they cause a hard reset. They can also cause a nice battery drain leading to total data loss.



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/19/2005 10:35:29 PM # Q
"The issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. Once in a blue moon an app crash will take out your WinXP system files. Very occasionally a hard drive will suffer mechanical failure. Hard resets on Palms occur a lot more frequently than either of those."

Really....I have actually experienced more PC HD crashes than unintended Palm hard resents since 1998. I think I may have to stop using PCs, since I run the risk of losing all my data.

"Have fun hotsyncing 4GB of data every week."

Sam, I am surprised that you don't know that the weekly sync will be an incremental sync, not a full "4GB" sync as you had suggested.


RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/19/2005 10:35:29 PM # Q
"The issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. Once in a blue moon an app crash will take out your WinXP system files. Very occasionally a hard drive will suffer mechanical failure. Hard resets on Palms occur a lot more frequently than either of those."

Really....I have actually experienced more PC HD crashes than unintended Palm hard resents since 1998. I think I may have to stop using PCs, since I run the risk of losing all my data.

"Have fun hotsyncing 4GB of data every week."

Sam, I am surprised that you don't know that the weekly sync will be an incremental sync, not a full "4GB" sync as you had suggested.


RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/19/2005 10:43:14 PM # Q
And one more thing, Sam. Did you know that driving a car can actually kill you?

"Nearly 1.2 million people die each year on the world's roads, and the number will rise by 65% over the first two decades of this century, says a report published this week by the World Health Organization and the World Bank."

1.2 million lives!!! Can you believe that?

If I were you, I would sell your car right away and stay home all day.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/20/2005 12:20:53 AM # Q
"The issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. Once in a blue moon an app crash will take out your WinXP system files. Very occasionally a hard drive will suffer mechanical failure. Hard resets on Palms occur a lot more frequently than either of those."

Really....I have actually experienced more PC HD crashes than unintended Palm hard resents since 1998.

You've been using Windows XP since 1998? Clever you.

I think I may have to stop using PCs, since I run the risk of losing all my data.

Once again, the issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. The risk of losing all the data on your PC in a crash is there, but it's very small.

"Have fun hotsyncing 4GB of data every week."

Sam, I am surprised that you don't know that the weekly sync will be an incremental sync, not a full "4GB" sync as you had suggested.

I can think of plenty of ways an incremental sync could be close on 4 GB.

And one more thing, Sam. Did you know that driving a car can actually kill you?

"Nearly 1.2 million people die each year on the world's roads, and the number will rise by 65% over the first two decades of this century, says a report published this week by the World Health Organization and the World Bank."

1.2 million lives!!! Can you believe that?

That's a lot of people of course, but the absolute risk is still very small. Note for the hard of understanding: that's what we're talking about here. Not whether something *could* happen, but whether it's likely to happen. And on a Palm hard resets are likely enough to happen to be a problem, if a hard reset means losing the contents of your HD.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
jbeedham @ 5/20/2005 2:13:19 AM # Q
Is there a difference between a hard reset and a soft reset?

-------------------------------------------------------
Proud owner of a Sony TJ-37!
RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
LiveFaith @ 5/20/2005 9:44:58 AM # Q
Soft reset is "like" rebooting your PC. Just reloads the OS and your back to business.

Hard reset is "like" reformatting your PC hard drive. You'll have to repload everything from scratch. Not quite so radical on Palm OS though, hotsyncing brings most everything back from backup. Some things do not restore and have to be manually reset.

The debate (between insults) that is going on above hinges on whether the LD erases all 4GB on the HDD on a hard reset. 4GB restoring easily from backup is a bit "difficult", lets say.

P1's ads say no, others are saying yes. Time will tell. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Scott R @ 5/20/2005 10:06:56 AM # Q
Again, I read it in their user manual (see above). They have two types of hard resets, one fast, one thorough, both of which will effectively require you to reinstall everything.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/20/2005 3:27:21 PM # Q
"Really....I have actually experienced more PC HD crashes than unintended Palm hard resents since 1998.

You've been using Windows XP since 1998? Clever you"

Where did I ever say that I have been using a Windows XP PC since 1998? Last time I checked, Windows 98 were still made by Microsoft, which also made Windows 2000 and XP.

"Once again, the issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. The risk of losing all the data on your PC in a crash is there, but it's very small."

You just answered your own question. The risk of losing all the data on your LifeDrive in a crash is there, but it is very small.

"I can think of plenty of ways an incremental sync could be close on 4 GB."

Sure, but how realistic is that? And what % of LD users will actually experience a 4GB incremental sync weekly?

" That's a lot of people of course, but the absolute risk is still very small. Note for the hard of understanding: that's what we're talking about here. Not whether something *could* happen, but whether it's likely to happen. And on a Palm hard resets are likely enough to happen to be a problem, if a hard reset means losing the contents of your HD."

Sam, this is where you and I really disagree. I have not experiened any unintended hard reset on a Palm in a long time, and the risk, at least to me, is small to non-existent. If you experience an unaccpetable high number of hard resets on your Palm, you should not own a Palm at all, regradless whether the hard reset wipes the entire hard drive.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/20/2005 4:52:20 PM # Q
"Really....I have actually experienced more PC HD crashes than unintended Palm hard resents since 1998.

You've been using Windows XP since 1998? Clever you"

Where did I ever say that I have been using a Windows XP PC since 1998?

You asked me about app crashes needing HD reformats under Windows. I said they were rare under Windows XP. You cited your experience of crashes since 1998, which I've just rubbished since they weren't under XP. Try to keep up with your own argument.

Last time I checked, Windows 98 were still made by Microsoft.

I guess you haven't checked since 2003 then, 'cos that's when they dropped it.

"Once again, the issue isn't whether a device will *never* fail and wipe your data, but how often it is likely to do it. The risk of losing all the data on your PC in a crash is there, but it's very small."

You just answered your own question. The risk of losing all the data on your LifeDrive in a crash is there, but it is very small.

I wasn't asking a question and, for the nth time, the chances of having to do a hard reset on your Palm are a lot greater than the chances on an app crash under Windows XP (or Linux) taking out the contents of your hard drive, so stop trying to compare the two.

"I can think of plenty of ways an incremental sync could be close on 4 GB."

Sure, but how realistic is that? And what % of LD users will actually experience a 4GB incremental sync weekly?

For the 'power users' the LD is targeted at it could easily happen.

I have not experiened any unintended hard reset on a Palm in a long time, and the risk, at least to me, is small to non-existent.

Well aren't you special? Perhaps you should ask a few other people (mike cane for example) about their experiences of Palms and hard resets.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 5:32:29 PM # Q
One thing -- a not-insignificant thing, either -- being overlooked here is this *version* of PalmOS. Go read Gekko's T5 Tale of Torment in the forums. The POS version used in the LD is apparently even *more* fussy about what it will allow to run -- the current G1 patch will NOT work on it, unlike the T5, for example.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Rome @ 5/20/2005 5:56:11 PM # Q
"You asked me about app crashes needing HD reformats under Windows. I said they were rare under Windows XP. You cited your experience of crashes since 1998, which I've just rubbished since they weren't under XP. Try to keep up with your own argument."

You do know that Microsoft made other OSs before Windows XP, don't you? Yes, I asked you about crashes under windows. I did NOT ask you about crashes under windows XP. I have been using a MS OS PC (DOS and Windows) for 20+ years, and I have been through countless crashes and blue screens. Please remember that before Windows XP, there were Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, and 2000. However, I keep using a PC because the benefits outweighted the risk of HD crashing. I didn't let some HD crashes stop me from buying the next PC.

"Last time I checked, Windows 98 were still made by Microsoft.

I guess you haven't checked since 2003 then, 'cos that's when they dropped it."

Please note the past tense, "were", in my reply, which meant that Microsfot used to make Windows 98.

"I wasn't asking a question and, for the nth time, the chances of having to do a hard reset on your Palm are a lot greater than the chances on an app crash under Windows XP (or Linux) taking out the contents of your hard drive, so stop trying to compare the two."

Well, that has not been my experience. Unlike you, I use both Windows PC and Palm, so I actually have first-hand experience.

"I can think of plenty of ways an incremental sync could be close on 4 GB."

Sure, but how realistic is that? And what % of LD users will actually experience a 4GB incremental sync weekly?

For the 'power users' the LD is targeted at it could easily happen."

Really....care to give us some possible scenarios.

"Well aren't you special? Perhaps you should ask a few other people (mike cane for example) about their experiences of Palms and hard resets."

I don't have to. My personal experience is what counts. If it is other people's experience that you want, I can give you plenty of isolated examples of frequent crashing Windows. There are currently three Palm devices in my household, two Treo 650s and one Zire 71. My wife and I can't recall the last time we had to do an unintended hard reset. So, Sam, what kind of Palm device(s) do you use?

G1 on the LD
Surur @ 5/20/2005 5:59:24 PM # Q
8) The only problems I've had with it resetting, which takes only about 30 seconds, not the 67 second to 4 minutes one curmudgeon was claiming, is because of legacy apps. BTW, the Palm OS 5 Graffiti 1 libs that were released on this board work like a charm.

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87424&page=3

It works for him.

Surur



RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
Sam H @ 5/20/2005 6:43:21 PM # Q
Yes, I asked you about crashes under windows. I did NOT ask you about crashes under windows XP. I have been using a MS OS PC (DOS and Windows) for 20+ years, and I have been through countless crashes and blue screens.

Since you want to compare crashes on Palms and PCs, it's only fair to compare the latest Palm with the latest version of Windows.

"I wasn't asking a question and, for the nth time, the chances of having to do a hard reset on your Palm are a lot greater than the chances on an app crash under Windows XP (or Linux) taking out the contents of your hard drive, so stop trying to compare the two."

Well, that has not been my experience. Unlike you, I use both Windows PC and Palm, so I actually have first-hand experience.

LOL. Obviously. FYI, I know plenty about Windows, be it DOS or NT based.

"I can think of plenty of ways an incremental sync could be close on 4 GB."

Really....care to give us some possible scenarios.

I'll give you JUST ONE, because you should really learn to think for yourself. In the medical field, patients' notes, correspondence, test results, prescriptions etc need to be updated so frequently that a weekly incremental sync could easily run to 4 gigs.

"Well aren't you special? Perhaps you should ask a few other people (mike cane for example) about their experiences of Palms and hard resets."

I don't have to. My personal experience is what counts.

Wow, you really are special.

If it is other people's experience that you want, I can give you plenty of isolated examples of frequent crashing Windows.

See my first point.

There are currently three Palm devices in my household, two Treo 650s and one Zire 71. My wife and I can't recall the last time we had to do an unintended hard reset. So, Sam, what kind of Palm device(s) do you use?

T3. It's great.

RE: A hard reset wipes the entire hard drive
ackmondual @ 5/21/2005 1:34:34 AM # Q
I can't comment on the later pOS versions after 5.2.1, but my T3 has had only 1 hard reset b/c i figured i knew what i was doing despite FileZ's warning of potentially crashing my device if i unchecked something. It didn't hard reset it, but i had to since i was getting looping soft resets.

Some guy posted that FileProg forced a hard reset on him on his 5.2.1 device. He had to soft reset his device by tapping the reset button in the error window, and to his nasty surprise, a hard reset instaed of a soft reset was initiated instead. That's the only extreme case i've heard tho. Most cases of hard resets requiring hard resets on 5.2.1 devices or below are still from ppl using "shifty" 3rd party apps, using certain hacks, or trying out "experiments" like seeing if the scientific calculator on a t5 will run on a T3 or if datebook+ from a visor Deluxe will run on a T|E.

Reply to this comment

Limited audience

tthiel @ 5/18/2005 12:48:38 PM # Q
The number of people who will pay $500 for a Palm with a 4GB HD is small. Palm still needs something between the Tungsten E2 and this device and the Tungsten 5 ain't it.

Reply to this comment

Neat

sremick @ 5/18/2005 1:16:54 PM # Q
I'll buy one once someone figures out how to get G1 on it. And to perma-cache certain apps into real RAM. I have to take issue with the way the hard drive is utilized.



http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Neat
ebrough @ 5/18/2005 2:09:07 PM # Q
Get over the whole G1 issue. G2 is what is on the device and has been out for over two years. Its time to give it up. There are a lot of other things in the world to whine about then G2, like faimine and war. G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up.

RE: Neat
sremick @ 5/18/2005 2:34:03 PM # Q
G2 might have been out for 2 years, but I've been using G1 for more than 2 years before G2 even existed, and I continue to use G1 to this day on my T3.

I don't care that the device has G2, or that G2 is the new default. My issue is that such a trivial thing as making G1 a configurable option buried somewhere down in the prefs isn't just included. G1 has been around for EONS and there are tons of people born and bred on G1 who work much more efficiently with G1 than they do with G2. Like me.

It's just ridiculous and inexcusable that it's not an option. Note I said "OPTION". Use G2 if you want, I don't care.

What if your next computer stuck you with some messed-up keyboard layout instead of QWERTY? Without any option to switch it to QWERTY?

Leave the "famine and war" extremist nonsense out of the discussion. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and if you really believed it, you would spend your time working on "famine and war" and not flaming someone who has a different input preference than you.



http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Neat
LiveFaith @ 5/18/2005 2:54:57 PM # Q
sremick,

If my PC camr wirh a kweboarx lhat wsa diffnmt them it is KO by me!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Neat
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:48:30 PM # Q
[i]G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up.[/i]

And a Dell is not that hard to buy, to keep G1. Just give up PalmOne.
Is that what PalmOne wants to hear? It might not be a big deal to you, but it is to some, and ought to be with PalmOne/PalmSource. Text entry is sort of the pivotal feature of a PDA. If not, we'd be using other devices to fill its role.

RE: Neat
InsGuy @ 5/18/2005 5:53:55 PM # Q
cbowers.

Good point. I just came back from having an X50v, and yes, their 'version' of G1 was VERY nice; wish P1 could do the same.

All good things...

RE: Neat
DevPOV @ 5/18/2005 5:56:10 PM # Q
I sure hope "G1 lack" is the biggest beef about this device!

No G1? Then how about...
mikecane @ 5/18/2005 8:14:30 PM # Q
Could it be? Will I succumb to the LD? After all, there is:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6372

http://www.zicorp.com/decumaAlphabetic.htm

-- and I tried it on the TE. It's nice.

RE: Neat
Scott R @ 5/18/2005 8:21:54 PM # Q
G1 rules, G2 drools. But with a landscape-capable device with a large enough screen, a virtual thumbboard may be even better.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up.
joad @ 5/18/2005 11:21:36 PM # Q
"G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up."

Hey, Buster- the keyboard analogy is completely apt here... the only reason Palm switched to the bastard child of Graffiti (Jot a.k.a. Graffiti 2) was because of the Xerox lawsuit mess. The lawsuit is over, and PalmOne is free to put original Graffiti back as a supported option.

I've used Graffiti 1 for almost 9 years now, and still use several Palm devices of various ages. G2 is slower to use - it's by definition NON-unistroke. When you switch back and forth to different devices (including Pocket PC with the beautiful "block recognizer") it's just not as simple as you seem to indicate with your statement. And Tealscript does an OK job at hacking in a mimicked G1,but why would I waste the money for a sub-par solution that Palmsource/PalmOne could just include for my $500.00 (or not fix but allow via non-supported beaming of the G1 files).

PalmSource/One should just acknowledge that stupid moves like insisting on making devices ONLY work with the inefficient Graffiti 2 are only keeping MORE people from upgrading to the "latest and greatest."


Why why why does PalmOne continue to treat the customer with "we will tell you what you want" rather than "what would you buy?".

So many people have taken the effort to track down the files and hack G1 into their G2 handhelds, most companies would consider that information "Market Research" into what their customers really want. Instead, Palm*'s attitude seems to be "G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up."

Don't ask Palm to supply Graffiti 1.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 1:28:22 AM # Q
The lawsuit is over, and PalmOne is free to put original Graffiti back as a supported option.

You are mistaken. Palm is NOT free to revert back to G1 without opening up the company to future litigation/appeals. You want G1? Pony up some cash to encourage a developer to "massage" the libraries to work with later versions of PalmOS 5. Or use TealScript. Or use a PDA that supports native or hacked G1. Just don't expect Palm to bend over for Xerox's lawyers just for your viewing pleasure. Those ba$tards don't use any lube...


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Neat
LiveFaith @ 5/19/2005 12:38:27 PM # Q
"G2 is not that hard to learn. Just give it up."

Just give it up. Enter into the land of deep relaxation and sweet dreams. Accept G2 and the torment is over. No more insomnia, outbursts, or related road rage.

Just give it up.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Reply to this comment

Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now

Alpha1220 @ 5/18/2005 2:11:46 PM # Q
Just as a service to everyone here, I thought I might want to point to an interesting discussion going on over at 1src.com. You can link to it via:

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=87343

(The discussion gets good starting pg. 2)

Apparently, there are some wide discrepancies emerging between the various reviews: some LD units are showing Garnet OS 5.4.0.3.23 and others are showing OS 5.4.8. Battery and performance numbers are varying widely amongst the reviews right now; some are talking about slowness of unit response while others are praising its rapidity, etc. etc. as if there are mutant versions of this product lurking around.

My initial reaction was to bay at the moon, so to speak, over the quick-draining battery + the performance issues + lack of solid media applications, but I'm going to (I know, how shocking for an enthusiast) settle down for a few days and see how things pan out.

Just wanted to let everyone know that, in the words of a poor-spelling but clear-minded handheld compatriot over at 1src, something isn't "jibing" here in these reviews.

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
hkklife @ 5/18/2005 3:01:43 PM # Q
This is a cut & dried product launch transmogrified into a comedy of errors like ONLY P1 can produce!

"Shipping" units that aren't even shipping, "free overnight shipping" but no units in stock to be shipped for ~2 weeks, and multiple OS versions floating around in the hands of reviewers. When will it ever cease!?

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
Alpha1220 @ 5/18/2005 3:10:58 PM # Q
I think more important than figuring out when it will cease is hoping beyond hope that it will cease somewhere that ends up benifiting us the consumer ;)

Meaning, a lot depends on WHICH set of reviews to believe right now -- which is quite comical, I agree. Let's just hope it gets sorted out so that it turns out the early bad words (ala pdageek) are false (more accurately, are based on unoptimized Garnet versions)

One thing I will say, this is very much a make it / break it unit for me with Palm. I've been doing the 'when the next iteration comes out' cycle since before the T|C came out (I returned a gifted 3800 series iPaq in 02 expecting Cobalt just around the corner!), and I can't stand it anymore (no exaggeration). You know the type -- you catch them in the comment 'when the 2nd or 3rd generation lifedrive comes out, THEN it will be something'. It's become like Sartre's No Exit for me, and I'm done lol. This has to come out strong, or its either the Archos PMA430 or a bonafide darkside Win Mob 05 unit for me.

We'll just have to see ...

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
HunterHawk @ 5/19/2005 4:47:53 PM # Q
There were three reviews I read immediately after the embargo lifted. There was one that was mostly negative, one that was mildly positive, and one that gushed about how FANTASTIC it was. The more tempered review seemed to be most objective, so I threw out the
two most extreme one and decided use the most moderate one to make the decision to go ahead an buy a life drive to replace my aging T3.

Sure, this is not the device of my dreams, and sure, I expect it will be cheaper "real soon now", i.e. after they make top dollar off of impulsive people like me, but the reviews confirm that the things I require are pretty much there in the lifedrive.

I'd like to see a complete review using a unit with a verified, correct version of PALM OS, etc, sometime soon.

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 8:59:35 PM # Q
>>>and decided use the most moderate one to make the decision to go ahead an buy a life drive to replace my aging T3.

You better come back here and post all about your, uh, adventures with it!

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
HunterHawk @ 5/20/2005 3:10:26 AM # Q
I'm going to scrutinize the heck out of it. I know a place that is going to get a very limited number of lifedrives in Friday afternoon. With no small amount of luck, I'll have one soon. Otherwise, it's 6 to 13 more days like nearly everyone else.
It should be interesting comparing it to my old T3, and the 2 weeks time I spent recently with an HP 4705.


RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
HunterHawk @ 5/20/2005 3:57:37 AM # Q
In the mean time, the one from CNET seems to be pretty well balanced.

http://reviews.cnet.com/PalmOne_LifeDrive/4505-3127_7-31383012.html?tag=promo2

The only odd thing about this review is that they are reporting longer battery life than some of the other reviews I've seen.

The one thing that everyone seems to agree on is that it's too expensive. I'll be surprised if there aren't a couple of $50 price cuts coming in the next near.

CNET battery findings explained!
Surur @ 5/20/2005 5:19:56 AM # Q
Battery tests
To test a Palm OS handheld's battery life, we start with a fully charged cell. We set the device's screen brightness and volume settings to half, and we don't allow the device to enter Suspend mode. The battery-life test repeatedly plays a video clip using the Kinoma Player until the battery dies. Another test consists of playing an MP3 audio file using the handheld's default audio-player app; the MP3 file is repeatedly played in a loop, with the screen allowed to go into standby. If the handheld includes built-in wireless networking, the initial battery tests are conducted with the wireless networking disabled, then repeated with them activated. Battery life is reported in minutes.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Labs/4520-6603_7-5110068-1.html?tag=txt

It sounds as if they only play ONE mp3 file over and over on repeat! This probably 4 MB file would easily fit into the MB ram, and therefore use less battery power. If this is true then this does not replicate real world performance where playlists would me much longer, and people would occasionally or even frequently change tracks.

Surur



RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
Adrenochrome @ 5/20/2005 8:09:48 AM # Q
Okay, "jibing" was my bad. :-)

Still, the reviews are falling into two distinct camps: "This thing is god-awful slow" and "It's plenty fast." Yes, there have been two different operating systems floating around in the test units, with the worst reviews using the older version. Not sure if that means anything, but it seems telling.

What's most interesting to me is the reactions of the people who have purchased one already. So far they're all in the "plenty fast" category.

What I'd like to know is if there's a way to switch the storage space of that virtual 64mb to an SD card. Loading the apps into the 32mb cache from a card would be worlds faster than from the HD, and easier on the battery life as well.

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
HunterHawk @ 5/21/2005 6:07:26 AM # Q
ok, I succeeded in getting a lifedrive today. I haven't had time to check out everything just yet, but a few things stand
out right away. Please keep in mind that my recent experience with other PDAs was with a T3 for the last few years, and 2 weeks with an HP IPAQ 4705, so I'd hardly call myself an expert reviewer. That said, here goes:

1. Pocket tunes will play audio on the background, but it becomes choppy when other I/O is taking place, e.g. when using WiFi.

2. I ran into quite a few problems restoring from my old T3.
An astronomy program I use, Astromist, was very stable on the T3, but crashed the Lifedrive frequently. 2sky and splashmoney made the transition without a hitch. My contacts, etc, restored ok, so I manually cleaned up the new device, and then re-installed other software I had added and now things seem to work ok. This was not the seemless transition I would have hoped for.

3. I'm not a big fan of reading manuals for devices that are supposed to be easy to use. Setting up the lifedrive was harder than the T3, e.g. adding a cell phone as a modem was harder since it;s now a buried menu item in preferences, instead of an app on the mail menu. [phonelink] But, compared with the IPAQ
running windows mobile 2003 2nd ed., it was still a lot easier.
If one is willing to read the docs, then setup should go pretty easily.

4. The lifedrive is slower than the T3. The hard drive introduces a noticeable delay, but the buffer cache seems to work pretty well. 2sky has a rather large database of celestial objects, which requires a lot of I/O when you zoom and pan the star maps. When it loads a new section of sky, it does pause for a second or two. I know this is really subjective, but I really didn't find the slight decrease in speed to be that offputting. To me, it seems far more responsive than the IPAQ 4705, even though that device has a 50% faster processor speed.

5. The delay that I do find a bit annoying is in handwriting recognition. When entering some letters, there is about a 2-3 second delay before it shows up on the screen. This feels a lot like when a letter didn't get picked up, so I then write it again, only to find that not I have an extra instance of the letter.

6. The screen seems to have slightly better color saturation, than the T3, but is not as nice to my eyes as the wonderful screen of the IPAQ.

7. Blazer is a nice improvement over the browser on the T3.
I was actually able to perform and OTA, over the air, software install with blazer. Tabbed browsing would be nice though. Blazer is certainly nicer than a stock version of PIE, Pocket Internet Explorer, on the IPAQ. But, to PIE's credit though, you can add extensions to it to add considerable extra functionality to it. [although at significant extra cost]

8. The WIFI hardware and software seem considerably more refined than using the palm one SDIO wifi card. It easy to configure multiple wifi connections and performance seems good for handheld. My memory is a bit fuzzy with respect to the IPAQ, but I'd say that wifi works at least as well on the lifedrive, perhaps a bit better. [ a side by side comparison is needed to be sure.]

9. I think I may have found a possible explanation for reports of varying OS'es installed on lifedrives in early reviews. The device os info obtained via the menu bar is 5.4.8, but via other tools like filez, it is reported as 5.40017.

10. initial device startup is a bit slower than the T3 after a reset, but not obnoxiously so. Soft resets do take a couple minutes though, which is pretty annoying.

11. It doesn't look like Bluetooth has been improved much. 115200 is still the max serial speed. There really should be an option to set it to 256 and 512K baud to suuport tethering to
BT modem devices.

12. It's big-ish, but not too big. It does fit in my hand nicely. It fits in my pants pocket too. Shirt pockets are not really big enough. Smaller would have been better, but I think this is the price for adding a 1660mAh battery and hard drive.

I haven't had the device long enough to gauge battery life, although I suspect that it will be pretty good.

I'm sure my impressions will change over time. But, at this point, I'm reasonably satisfied with this device as a replacement for my T3.

Is this the Definite LD review from a USER?
Surur @ 5/21/2005 8:34:06 AM # Q

Can we accept that this is the definitive LD review from a user?

To summarize the bad points:

Its large, its can be laggy, its doesn't multitask well and a soft reset takes a few minutes.

Good points: Large storage, works OK with old software, WIFI works well and is easy to use, and the buyer is satisfied?

HunterHawk has not commented on battery life and video performance yet.

Surur

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
HunterHawk @ 5/21/2005 10:18:46 PM # Q
I certainly would not call my 'first impressions' a definative review. For one thing, my remarks were quite subjective and tuned to how the LD meets my needs. e.g. I do not plan to use it to play video, so that is not something I plan to comment on. [at least not right now]

I also have some additional comments.

wifi receiver sensitivity is good for a handheld, but not great compared to notebook.

As for battery life, it looks like I should get at least a day of web and email use over wifi - not great, but adequate. Your mileage may vary.

Also, I'm beginning to be somewhat less enchanted with the Blazer browser. I've run across some pages on the weather underground and weather.com which make it run really slowly and
sometimes report that the page is too big to render. Perhaps their content has changed, but I don't recall the T3's browser
having problems with these sites.

The intermittently slow text input is still the only thing about this unit that I find actually annoying. Overall, I'm still fairly pleased with the unit.

If people think the world needs yet another review, I'll be happy to stop being anonymous and write one up, but hopefully, the "real" reviewers will produce soon instead.

RE: Be wary of the reviews that are coming out right now
Surur @ 5/22/2005 4:20:46 AM # Q
If people think the world needs yet another review, I'll be happy to stop being anonymous and write one up, but hopefully, the "real" reviewers will produce soon instead.

People are not trusting the "real reviewers", especially if they are too positive or negative.

Surur

Reply to this comment

PIC Review

gizmoguy @ 5/18/2005 2:34:49 PM # Q
Personally, I'm going to wait for Ryan's review before I pass judgement.

RE: PIC Review
dbmoyers2 @ 5/18/2005 7:35:21 PM # Q
Smart! Hold out, let some people work this thing for awhile. All indications are it has alot of potential. Maybe some bugs, but those will probably be patchable. Good comment.
RE: PIC Review
ozz @ 5/19/2005 3:50:44 AM # Q
I absolutely agree that Ryan's review will be more reliable and trustworthy than most, if not all, of the other reviews to date. Ryan will tell it like it is. No BS, no nonsense. That's what the readers of PIC want and deserve! And, yes, his review will be the deal-maker or deal breaker for my LD purchase decision. I'm most concerned about the conflicting stories about the hard drive crashing and wiping out all the data. If there's any truth to that at all, THAT'S a deal breaker.
RE: PIC Review
HunterHawk @ 5/21/2005 5:46:02 PM # Q
I certainly would not call my 'first impressions' a definative review. For one thing, my remarks were quite subjective and tuned to how the LD meets my needs. e.g. I do not plan to use it to play video, so that is not something I plan to comment on.

I also have some additional comments. wifi receiver sensitivity is good for a handheld, but not great compared to notebook. As for battery life, it looks like I should get at least a day of web and email use over wifi - not great, but adequate. Your mileage may vary.

RE: PIC Review
HunterHawk @ 5/21/2005 10:17:22 PM # Q
oops, sorry about my comment - wrong thread.

Reply to this comment

Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?

badtz.maru @ 5/18/2005 3:16:52 PM # Q
Hi! Anyone know if the LifeDrive can be upgraded to Palm OS 6 when it becomes available?

Thanks!!!

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Alpha1220 @ 5/18/2005 3:24:47 PM # Q
I'll give my .02 on this (since I'm roaming around the boards with the release of the LD):

I don't see any reason TECHNICALLY that the Lifedrive couldn't be upgraded to Palm OS 6 Cobalt.

However, I wouldn't hold your breath for Palm OS 6 Cobalt to be released, quite possibly EVER, especially for a handheld. (Smartphones might be a different story). I say this with hung head, but I believe that it has entered the storied halls of 'vapourware'.

So, yes, technically, no, since you'll never see it.

Now, unless Palm dies, they will eventually have to release some new operating system, at some point down the line. I would say that a lifedrive should be able to be upgraded to that operating system, although, we really don't have a good idea of what the next true iteration of Palm OS will look like, besides some far-out comments about Linux implementation.

Bottom line: If you're buying LD, buy it expecting to become friends with OS Garnet. No upgrade is on the horizon, however technically feasible it may be.

Cheers

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
sremick @ 5/18/2005 3:55:35 PM # Q
Actually, OS6 exists. Officially and for real. I have it (6.1) running on my computer. It's the actual code, and because of its HAL the x86 platform can execute it without emulation.

So you can't really call it "vaporware".

However, as far as a PDA maker finally including it on a PDA... that's another story. I'm sure it will happen... eventually. But it could be a long while.

There is a separation of PalmSource and PalmOne. PalmSource officially released PalmOS 6.1 so it exists, but neither PalmOne nor any other PDA manufacturer has chosen to use it yet.


http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
cbowers @ 5/18/2005 3:55:49 PM # Q
ba dum dum ching...

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Alpha1220 @ 5/18/2005 4:04:12 PM # Q
I know that it does exist. I didn't think it was worth getting into in answering the question. However, I think from the perspective of an enduser (and, I don't mean to quibble here, but I think this is important) if they don't see it in there hands, then it is, for all intents and purposes, vaporware.

What's the difference between a piece of software that was produced but never released into customers hands, and a piece of software that was never even produced?

Umm ... ... I guess, pride of saying 'but we made it'. Basically, there isn't that much difference.

Nevertheless, you're right to correct me on technical grounds: I shouldn't have called it vaporware. Maybe 'mysteriously unaccepted but extant software' :)

Cheers

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
dagwud @ 5/18/2005 4:19:11 PM # Q
Don't apologize for suggesting that Cobalt will become vaporware. That's where it's heading.

Consider the following definitions of "vaporware" gleaned from Google.

  • description of software/features that is/are not currently available but may never be available.

  • "software" advertised, and sometimes sold, that does not yet exist in a releasable form.

  • A product (typically software) which marketers promote heavily before making it available, but the product is never actually released.

  • A semi-affectionate slang term for software which has been announced and perhaps even demonstrated, but not delivered to commercial customers.


I'm particularly fond of the last one in the list. PalmOS6/Cobalt has, in fact, been demonstrated. That is, after all, what is running in sremick's computer. But it has yet to be delivered to commercial customers.

That will require someone including it on a new handheld or making it available as an upgrade. And if that never happens, it's vaporware - not because it was never developed but because it never made it to market.

--
Palm Pilot Pro -> III -> Vx -> m500 -> m515 -> ???

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 4:51:52 PM # Q

"Palm OS 6 Cobalt is the most important piece of software [PalmSource has] ever delivered, a revolutionary OS that will have as big an impact as the original Palm OS," - David Nagel, CEO of PalmSource, 11-Feb-04, The PalmSource Developer Conference

----

PERFECT "PUMP AND DUMP", NAGEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS GUY SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED BY THE SEC AND THEN LET THE PSRC SHAREHOLDERS TAR, FEATHER, AND BEAT HIM! LOOK AT THE TIMING. THIS GUY KNEW COBALT WAS D.O.A. AND YET HE STILL PUMPED IT UP AND THEN CASHED OUT WHILE SHAREHOLDERS GOT SCREWED! SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!!!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=PSRC&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=


2-Dec-04 15,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $15.8181 per share.
(Proceeds of $237,271)
1-Nov-04 15,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $20.41 per share.
(Proceeds of $306,150)
1-Oct-04 15,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $20.7955 per share.
(Proceeds of $311,932)
19-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $19.1298 per share.
(Proceeds of $191,298)
18-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.3927 per share.
(Proceeds of $183,927)
17-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.2523 per share.
(Proceeds of $182,523)
16-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.2392 per share.
(Proceeds of $182,392)
13-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.0762 per share.
(Proceeds of $180,762)
12-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.2903 per share.
(Proceeds of $182,902)
11-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.7396 per share.
(Proceeds of $187,396)
10-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.6207 per share.
(Proceeds of $186,207)
9-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $18.5696 per share.
(Proceeds of $185,696)
6-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $19.3301 per share.
(Proceeds of $193,301)
5-Aug-04 10,000 PSRC Automatic Sale at $20.96 per share.
(Proceeds of $209,600)
5-Aug-04 125,000 PSRC Planned Sale
(Estimated proceeds of $2,620,000)

http://biz.yahoo.com/t/46/3395.html



RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 5:03:09 PM # Q

Nagel Keynote Opens The PalmSource Conference
Posted By: Ryan on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:50:06 PM

February 10th, 2004, San Jose, California. The annual PalmSource developer conference kicked off with a keynote speech from David Nagel, CEO of PalmSource. Read on for PalmInfocenter's coverage of the opening keynote and Nagel's remarks on the current state of affairs in the Palm Economy.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6550



RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Dr Opinion @ 5/18/2005 7:13:05 PM # Q
Get a job, troll. Jeez, I hope MS is paying you well...

-----------------------
"Many believe Gekko to be a pitiful little man with few friends"

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
dbmoyers2 @ 5/18/2005 7:27:12 PM # Q
GEKKO, lets see...is that a Gordon wannabe, or the annoying little green critter. My bad, it has got to be the annoying little green critter. GEKKO, recess is over, go back to class now. Continue the finger painting, don't fret...Mary had a little lamb will be sung next. Then its back to Juvee.
RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Scott R @ 5/18/2005 8:24:19 PM # Q
Assuming that stock sell info is legit, those are good finds Gekko. Maintaining the Palm "economy" means something different to the ones holding the reigns these days.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
rkevwill @ 5/18/2005 11:09:40 PM # Q
Gekko:
Although I don't like the sales either, note, these are sales previously arranged to sell certain numbers of shares at regular intervals. Once this type of sale is entered, it can't be called back. These are normally done to pay for option grant taxes when the options are due to expire. Or, for other reasons. They are planned long in advance. In other words, when he sets up these sales according to SEC regs, everything is done automatically at market orders, on the scheduled sale dates. (this happens to be something I deal in daily, so I thought I would throw that in)
All:
About all the discussion of the downside of the HD, I can see the positives and negatives. They say this is gonna be just one in a group of this "family" from Palm. Personally, I would like to see them include a 2 gig flash internally, with an sdio slot. and make the critter thinner. Who knows what might come up in the future.

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
Gekko @ 5/18/2005 11:27:08 PM # Q

rkev - i know a little something about stock options. The fact that they are PLANNED SALES helps prove my point.

if it's February 2004 and you're all set/planned to sell a shiitload of options a few months later in August 2004, you want that stock price to peak in August 2004. So, the question remains - in February 2004, did Nagel knowingly PUMP UP COBALT to the PSRC Investors/Developers even though he KNEW Cobalt was D.O.A. and KNOWING he was scheduled to dump a bunch of shares a few months later in August 2004? If so, he knew the implosion was coming, and he left shareholders hold the bag - and he took their money and cashed out. Do you understand now?



Nagel-Cobalt Conspiracy Theory 101? I don't think so, Geeko.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 12:54:55 AM # Q
Let's cut the grassy knoll sh1t now.

Yes, Nagel knew Cobalt was not on target, but no CEO with half a brain (this includes Nagel... barely) is going to trash his company's sole product for the sake of honesty (or more accurately, transparency). The fact that he would benefit financially by pumping up vaporware doesn't mean much - what he did was what would be expected of ANYONE in his position.

All this Cobalt dreaming by newbies here is really sad. Reminds me of welfare kiddies waiting up all night on Christmas Eve hoping to see Santa Claus, only to find out the next day that Santa completely forgot about them. Again.

News flash: Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Cobalt* are all fictional characters. Time to grow up, kiddies...


*Mike Cane: Notice how suddenly all the PalmOS apologists like Mike Mace, your Mistress hackbod and Ben Combee have seemingly dropped off the face of the Earth? Must be working overtime along with Nagel's elves and the China MobileSoft Pied Pipers in an effort to use alchemy to "TRANSFORM" the lead balloon also known as Cobalt into the Golden Saviour, PalmLinux. Step 1 of the transformation (Calcination) is under way, with PalmSource's remaining software engineers being cremated as we speak...


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 9:40:07 AM # Q
I wonder if Palmix would help with something like the LifeDrive?! Or is this simply a matter of p1 effing up by shoving everything onto a hard drive partition and not real RAM?!

Anyone out there with an HDed Zaurus wanna comment?

I still want to fondle this beast. And I'd *still* like to know WTF is going on here -- someone pointed out that reviews have been giving different OS versions!

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
hkklife @ 5/19/2005 12:22:18 PM # Q
NOTHING can help the LifeDrive but BETTER hardware. Its software woes are the least of P1's concerns at the moment.

That is to say, flash-based storage and more REAL ram

And we're still awaiting official word/clarification on the two (at least) different OS revisions on the LD review units floating around out there.



RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 3:27:38 PM # Q
Is there ANY REAL RAM in the LD?! Is that 32MB of RAM or FRAM? Does anyone know The Truth about this?

128MB of REAL RAM coupled with that 4GB HD would have made for a killer device. The alleged six second lag would have only come up with huge video files or audio books.

Tapwave: Are You Listening?

There's something TapWave could do to sink the LifeDrive: a Zod3 with 128MB of REAL RAM and a CompactFlash slot so we could Choose Our Own Memory -- Flash or MicroDrive.

Tapwave: Are You Listening?

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
LiveFaith @ 5/20/2005 9:59:36 AM # Q
LD only has 16MB of ROM for the OS and the other PalmOne prescribed goodies. I would say OS6 would push that envelope over the max unless the other "stuff" was forced to RAM ... oops HD partition. :-(

Then again Cobalt only takes 0.0MB since it is vaporware, so maybe it'll work.

Option 2: Wait on a Chinese cell fone to be released this fall for OS6. Learning those characters is not that hard, but at least you can multitask on a 2.2" 8bit screen!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
bcombee @ 5/20/2005 3:24:44 PM # Q
I've not dropped off the face of the earth. However, in my current position at palmOne, I'm not in a situation where it's appropriate for me to comment on the plans of either palmOne or PalmSource, especially in the middle of a heated online discussion on a Palm OS news site. I continue to contribute technical articles and some opinion at my Combee on Palm OS weblog, but I'm generally too busy to follow all the back-and-forth here.

Paging bcombee
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 5:41:38 PM # Q
Well, can you give us your tech expertise in this debate?

Can you state with any authority if the alleged 6-second lag time reported in the NYT would have been alleviated -- if not nearly-eliminated -- had the LD (or *any* theoretical POS device) been designed with, say, 128MB of *real* RAM instead of this appearent 32MB FRAM and 64MB HD partition? That lag time would have only come up with large media files or when, say, D2G files were being fetched from the HD. Yes? No?

BTW, if the upcoming DevCon doesn't finally reveal that list of those Eleven Licensees Nagel touted earlier this year, I for one will be greatly disappointed.

Paging me.
bcombee @ 5/21/2005 12:10:07 AM # Q
There would be no significant lag if the LifeDrive were implmented using a memory archicture like the Zodiac 2 with 128MB of RAM. However, it would add significantly to the cost of the device, it would reduce the standby battery life significantly, and it would reduce reliability, since the storage heap wouldn't be kept in non-volatile memory. The LifeDrive memory model is like any of the other NVFS devices that palmOne has produced -- 32MB of RAM divided into 16MB for the system "ROM" image, 6MB for the dynamic heap, and 10MB for the DB Cache that holds records from the storage heap while they are in use. The microdrive is partitioned into a small system ROM partition, the storage heap partition, and the VFS volume, which is formatted as FAT32.

In practice, I find the drive spin-up time to be slightly annoying, but it doesn't intefere with my use of the device after a program has started.

hkklife hits the nail on the head. Read and LEARN, Cane.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 4:28:33 PM # Q
NOTHING can help the LifeDrive but BETTER hardware. Its software woes are the least of P1's concerns at the moment.

That is to say, flash-based storage and more REAL ram

Precisely.

Palm was too cheap to just supply 128 MB REAL RAM™ and use the Microdrive like a big SD card. The Rube Goldberg-style partitioning of the harddrive into BogusRAM™ is yet another example of Palm trying to get too clever for its own good and making a mess of a device just to save the less than $10 it would have cost to supply better hardware. For a $500 PDA, that's completely unacceptable. Palm's product managers should have been fired a LOOOOOONG time ago...


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Cobalt (Palm OS 6) upgradeable?
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 7:39:36 PM # Q
As I've stated elsewhere, it could be that p1's new hardware is just following PalmSource's, uh, "lead"...

Cue for you to go back to your PS bashing.

Reply to this comment

No camera!!!!!!!!

ray00pal @ 5/18/2005 4:37:06 PM # Q
Why no one complains about having no camera? Isn't this the the single largest failure to over take stupid Ipod?

RE: No camera!!!!!!!!
jlshelton @ 5/19/2005 2:16:59 AM # Q
Agreed. 3 years after the Sony NX-70V, we lose Camera, Keyboard, and IR Blaster (yes, it's fun to turn off other people's TVs with my Clie.) We gain WiFi, BlueTooth, and 4GB. But battery life will likely be worse, and hard-drive memory will be slow.

I'd have sprung for one with a camera, but without it, it seems kind of lame.

RE: No camera!!!!!!!!
skennedy1217 @ 5/19/2005 9:20:31 AM # Q
I used to take a lot of pictures with my TH55 (before I broke it). I would consider the LifeDrive if it had a camera, but I am also sure it is not important to a lot of people. If it had a larger hard drive I might still buy it (and couple it with a BT enabled camera cell phone), but the HD is not big enough to replace my iPod. I don't want to be carrying around three devices (phone, PDA and iPod). Also, of the three, the phone and the PDA are the most important. I could stand to leave the iPod at home, but I have never not needed both of the others (which is why the Treo 650 is perfect for me).
RE: No camera!!!!!!!!
cbowers @ 5/19/2005 11:16:37 AM # Q
IR blaster, ha. The only reason Clie's needed a supplemental IR transceiver is that the the main one was anemic compared to just about every other licensees. See http://pacificneotek.com/range.htm

Clie's 7-8 feet. Nearly everyone else is 30-50 feet, with the main IR transceiver alone, no supplemental "blaster" required.

RE: No camera!!!!!!!!
HunterHawk @ 5/19/2005 5:00:38 PM # Q
Since the target audience for this product seems to be managerial types, they camera may have been left off intentionally since cameras are prohibited in some professional situations. I think one could do a lot more damage with a voice recorder though, which the lifedrive has, but I don't claim to understand
how security types come up with their rules.

For me personally, I don't want another substandard camera in my life - I've use a real low-end professional camera, so I'm a bit spoiled. When they can get the resolution up to the point where text can be photographed and OCR'ed, then I'll be wanting a camera in my PDA too.

RE: No camera!!!!!!!!
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 5:08:43 PM # Q
You want OCR?

http://www.wizcomtech.com/Wizcom/products/products.asp?fid=79

I've used it for about 4 years now.

Reply to this comment

WPA Enterprise?

batmon @ 5/18/2005 5:24:01 PM # Q
Does the wireless works with WPA Enterprise? My office does not support WEP.

RE: WPA Enterprise?
cbowers @ 5/19/2005 11:21:44 AM # Q
Exactly, I too was wondering why this hadn't come up in the reviews. Wifi seems to be glossed over thus far in the reviews as "check: it's there".

RE: WPA Enterprise?
madhatter @ 5/19/2005 3:19:06 PM # Q
There is a setting for WPA-PSK in the WiFi setup

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.
RE: WPA Enterprise?
HunterHawk @ 5/19/2005 5:07:29 PM # Q
the user manuals are available from the support section of the palmone website. [Obviously] I haven't had time to read everything yet, but as I recall, WPA is supported. It looks to me like wireless configuration is one thing they actually may have done right.

RE: WPA Enterprise?
batmon @ 5/19/2005 10:47:38 PM # Q
Great, so they have WPA-PSK, bit do they do WPA Enterprise? Enterprise needs authentication such as RADUIS, PEAP, etc. Is there a place you enter username, passowrd and domain name? Thanks.

RE: WPA Enterprise?
HunterHawk @ 5/20/2005 3:21:21 AM # Q
page 315 of the handbook states that the device only supports WEP and WPA-PSK. Sorry.


RE: WPA Enterprise?
cbowers @ 5/20/2005 1:09:53 PM # Q
It would seem at the moment that enterprise support would be merely the same as for the Tungsten C, that being Aegis's Cisco LEAP client.
http://tinyurl.com/cmoew

That said, in looking for that, I notice the Tungsten C is discontinued on the PalmOne Canada site. I imagine in the US too once stock runs out. Strange. This lifedrive needs a clip-on keyboard (HP and Clie-esque) http://h30143.www3.hp.com/images/options/FA302A.jpg

Reply to this comment

Wanna buy it NOW? Come to NYC!

mikecane @ 5/18/2005 8:21:01 PM # Q
CompUSA on Fifth Ave & 37th Street in NYC has it in.

NO demo model out yet (they claimed they just got it *today*).

The box is a departure from past p1 design. It is a grey box with Life in orange and Drive in white, with "What Drives You?" in white. This will prove that I've actually *seen* the damned thing -- no pics of this box have appeared anywhere, I think. (No, I *forgot* the digicam in my foray today.) Neither Staples nor J&R had it in. I couldn't get to DataVision.

The box surprised me. With the reviews calling attention to the LD's size, it looked to me like the box was *smaller* than the one the T5 comes in!

Looked like CUSA had maybe six boxes in the behind-the-counter glass enclosure.

Report back if you buy it. I await the debut of the demo model later this week.

RE: Wanna buy it NOW? Come to NYC!
cbowers @ 5/25/2005 12:19:21 PM # Q
Indeed, isn't that NY's new motto? Welcome to NY, spend your money, now *GET OUT*.

Reply to this comment

Media Player Screen Scams

mikecane @ 5/18/2005 8:27:08 PM # Q
I saw the box for the Apex E2Go at CUSA today and Googled. Think p1 is pulling a fast one with the FRAM/RAM/HD partition issue? These video player guys don't even want to give out the pixel specs of their screens!

Go see:

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/335/C3900/

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=MEGA_View_566&class=mega

Reply to this comment

Upgrade???

XmonkeyX @ 5/18/2005 10:38:40 PM # Q
How is it compered to T|C??? I've had mine for 5 years and this seems the only pda actually better in my opinion.
What would be the ups and downs of this LifeDrive instead???

Liar, liar.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 12:36:32 AM # Q
How is it compered to T|C??? I've had mine for 5 years...

"5 years"? Wow you must be special. Or else full of sh1t. Since the Tungsten C was released in April 2003.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Upgrade???
hkklife @ 5/19/2005 12:36:52 AM # Q
5 years? I think not. The T|C, while ancient in handheld terms, is still only a hair over 2 years old. It launched in April '03 alongside the Zire 71.


RE: Upgrade???
XmonkeyX @ 5/19/2005 6:45:20 AM # Q
Yeah... sorry - it was late and I wasn't thinking. Still - can someone answer my question???

Reply to this comment

T3 still the Champ?

koolkiwi @ 5/18/2005 10:59:46 PM # Q
I have a T3 + WiFi Card + 1GB SD Card, and although I was first excited about the LifeDrive, after reading the reviews I have come to the following conclusion:

The T3 -> LifeDrive upgrade question?

Pros
- LD has Integrated WiFi (no need to carry seperate card)
- LD has 4GB storage (do I really need this when a 1GB SD stores a lot and is removable).
- LD has Portrait / Landscape button.
- LD allows me to use WiFi at the same time as Storage (T3 can't have both WiFi and SD inserted).
- It's cool to have the latest?

Cons
- LD is bigger (longer and fatter), T3 is more compact.
- LD has reported slower reponse due to Hard Disc access speed.
- LD battery life does not appear to be significantly better than T3, due to Hard Drive power requirements.
- LD has moving parts (Hard Disc), so has reliability questions?
- 1GB SD Cards are now cheap, 2GB cards are available, and 4GB cards are just around the corner?

The bottom line is:

a. The T5 was obviously a backward step from the T3.
b. The LifeDrive appears to just be a good old T3, with a Wifi card and a non-removable 4GB Hard Drive bundled into a fatter form factor!

My conclusion is that I would be better to stick with my T3 + large SD card for now, as I prefer the more compact T3 size and quicker responsiveness. Plus in practice, I don't use the WiFi all the time, so happy to insert when needed!

Now, if only P1 had added a CompactFlash slot instead of a non-removable Hard Drive, then I would be queueing to buy!

RE: T3 still the Champ? Be careful what you wish for...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 12:45:53 AM # Q
Now, if only P1 had added a CompactFlash slot instead of a non-removable Hard Drive, then I would be queueing to buy!


http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7106

If you can afford it, the VZ90 is as good as multimedia PalmOS PDAs get. Dual CompactFlash and Memory Stick slots, incredible OLED screen, integrated Wi-Fi. Not for newbies, but if you're going to spend $500 on an LD, you might as well cough up the extra cash for the best.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
koolkiwi @ 5/19/2005 2:09:23 AM # Q
If you can afford it, the VZ90 is as good as multimedia PalmOS PDAs get.

Looks promising... until I read about the 123Mhz processor. Surely that wouldn't cut it for high quality full frame rate Video?

Sony CLIE VZ90 = still the champ...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 3:13:52 AM # Q
Actually, it does video quite well.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
Masamune @ 5/19/2005 6:39:24 AM # Q
I thought the VZ90 was Japanese only - is the an English OS version available?

RE: T3 still the Champ?
Sid_Sid @ 5/19/2005 11:28:56 AM # Q
Yes, the T3 is still the champ!

RE: T3 still the Champ?
hkklife @ 5/19/2005 12:17:11 PM # Q
Attention Voice/Ryan;

PLEASE post the VZ90 review! I want to see how a year-old Clie for Japan only runs circles around the latest disappointing P1 effort.



RE: T3 still the Champ?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 2:05:54 PM # Q
And don't leave out the fact you have to CONVERT the video and the best fps you can get is a measly 15! (Yeah, it still looks good -- but so what? I want NATIVE file support. Which even the *LD* apparently doesn't deliver...)

RE: T3 still the Champ?
Altema @ 5/19/2005 4:20:56 PM # Q
Mike, TCPMP is freeware and does 60FPS on the T3 without overclocking.

RE: T3 still the Champ?
Altema @ 5/19/2005 4:27:59 PM # Q
PS: or 80FPS when overclocked to 532Mhz.

CLIE VZ90 Vs. Palm LifeDrive - Palm gets slaughtered...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 4:29:08 PM # Q
I thought the VZ90 was Japanese only - is the an English OS version available?

The OS is easily convertible to English for most menus. A few of the menus (like the word "Unfiled" in categories, etc.) are hard coded and will persist. It's a simple matter of modifying the libraries (if you know your way around PalmOS) or downloading the modified files from someone who's already done the work and HotSyncing them like you would with any regular application.

I feel it's quite HEAVY + a bit too big for a daily-use PDA, though: 3.4 x 4.3 x 0.9 inches and 9.5 ounces.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 5:03:05 PM # Q
>>>Mike, TCPMP is freeware and does 60FPS on the T3 without overclocking.

You lost the trail of bread crumbs there, fella. I was talking about that CLIE!

Video (pr0n) on VZ90 Vs. Palm LifeDrive
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 9:44:05 PM # Q
And don't leave out the fact you have to CONVERT the video and the best fps you can get is a measly 15! (Yeah, it still looks good -- but so what? I want NATIVE file support. Which even the *LD* apparently doesn't deliver...)

Wrong AGAIN, Cane. You can get video at 30 FPS. RTFM please. Oh I forgot - you're running a CLIE S320 these days since your craptastic Tungsten E began to smell like sh1t.

Name me any other Palm that gives support to MPEG files. CLIEs support Quicktime and MPEG files from the desktop. Just make sure to rename your pr0n MPEGs according to the CLIE dumba$$ numbering system, load and enjoy.

The other poster was correct about TCPMP. The Core kicks serious a$$. I'm amazed that Picard has provided the Palm community FOR FREE something that PalmOne/Source were too dumb/lazy to create: a good video player. I haven't tried the latest TCPMP beta on my VZ90, but I'll bet the results are truly pr0n-worthy...



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

The Voice of Reason says: you NEED this app!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 10:01:34 PM # Q
http://tcpmp.corecodec.org/about


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 10:14:52 AM # Q
>>>according to the CLIE dumba$$ numbering system

Am I seeing things?! Did he finally ADMIT that SOMETHING about CLIEs is effed?!!?

Hey, all I know is that when I was at SONYSTYLE, Bubba, they had to CONVERT the Molly MPEG to run on the TH55 demo model.

NEXT!

RE: T3 still the Champ?
Altema @ 5/20/2005 5:39:55 PM # Q
>>>You lost the trail of bread crumbs there, fella. I was talking about that CLIE!

Bread crumbs, bread crumbs? Mike, I thought those were crutons from your salad!!

RE: T3 still the Champ?
koolkiwi @ 5/20/2005 6:38:52 PM # Q
TCPMP is freeware and does 60FPS on the T3 without overclocking

In a word... WOW! Hadn't tried TCPMP before, was using MMPlayer. The "unstable" version only (0.65), indicated it was early development, but this app really rocks! It's very functional already, and plays full frame rate / full resolution video flawlessly on my T3.
I would class TCPMP as a must have "killer app" for LifeDrive (and T3 of course). Time to go and add another 1GB SD Card to my collection, which will hold about 5x 1 hour TV shows (with ads removed).

Mike Cane: Get on the Clue Train. Get out of Cluelessville!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 3:01:19 PM # Q
Am I seeing things?! Did he finally ADMIT that SOMETHING about CLIEs is effed?!!?

Hey, all I know is that when I was at SONYSTYLE, Bubba, they had to CONVERT the Molly MPEG to run on the TH55 demo model.

NEXT!

Oh puhleese. I always tell it like it is and have NEVER said CLIEs are perfect. Only that they have the best features and quality construction of any PalmOS PDA manufacturer. Care to disagree with that? Just try it - I'd love to biotchslap you some more.

Once again, READ MY LIPS: RTFM and S T F U. Have a seat, Cane. The Clue Train left you behind. Again.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 3:44:34 PM # Q
Whatever train *you* are on is bound to derail.

Enjoy your >giggle< CLIEs.

RE: CLIE VZ90 still the Champ.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 5:42:30 PM # Q
Keep giggling like a little schoolgirl, Cane. Someday you'll upgrade your monochrome CLIE S320. Too bad it won't be any time this decade. Keep playing with those store displays, though. Until the store managers boot your sorry a$$ out for scaring the paying customers...


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: T3 still the Champ?
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 7:32:19 PM # Q
Listen: Why don't you fulfil your earlier promise and get the hell down into your bunker with your CLIEs and peas? You can sit in the dark and autistically chant, "The PSP is just a phase, the PSP is just a phase..."

RE: T3 still the Champ?
cbowers @ 5/25/2005 12:22:14 PM # Q
The two of you ever heard of a "private chat"? Well recommended.

RE: T3 still the Champ?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 1:20:37 PM # Q











------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Am I the only one disappointed?

rcharette @ 5/18/2005 11:37:27 PM # Q
Yes, they did a good job with the screen, yes the 4GB HD is AWESOME, and yes we finally have native WiFi.

BUT, what is with the 416MHz processor? I'm not certain, but hasn't Intel released over a 700MHz X-Scale processor by now? Sure the 416MHz is adequeate for music, but what about streaming video, or more advanced games, or video or any of the myriad other tasks that would be enhanced/improved with a more robust processor? And where the heck is Cobalt?! It's been over half a year and we still have the same OS & the same processor?

Treo 650, T3, TW, m130, IIIc, IIIx

RE: Am I the only one disappointed?
twizza @ 5/19/2005 11:58:54 AM # Q
Your beef should not be with teh processor, but with the lack of a DSP. The processor is well enough to handle what is thrown at it, but without a robust graphics an audio subsystem, you experience the issues presented in most palmOne devices but not Zodiac/Clie devices.

mobileministrymagazine.blogspot.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: Am I the only one disappointed?
HunterHawk @ 5/19/2005 5:11:00 PM # Q
Yeah, I'm disapointed, but not to the point of desparation.

Recently, I bought a hp ipaq 4705, which seems to be their top of the line unit. Pre-lifedrive, I was willing to cross over to the dark side, if and only if that would satisfy my short list of requirements. I made a good fail effort to see if this $600+
dollar device could do what I wanted, but ultimately returned it. It was measured and found wanting. e.g. I had four PDF docs I wanted to be able to read natively, and only the two simplest ones could be read on the HP. Worse yet, the unit wouldn't crash, but would instead lock up for about a minute while it recovered from me tapping the screen too fast, etc... A reset of a palm device was faster than waiting for the HP to com back to life.

After my brief, sordid affair with a windows mobile device, I'm more than happy to rush in to the arms of my flawed, but beloved, lifedrive.

RE: Am I the only one disappointed?
cbowers @ 5/20/2005 1:23:51 PM # Q
"and yes we finally have native WiFi."

And the Tungsten C had copped liver? Perhaps you mean PalmOne finally has WiFi and Bluetooth in the same box. But then that's only remarkable because most everyone else has been there forever (including Sony Clie's).

Reply to this comment

Hard Drive: Six seconds lag time!!!!

me2w @ 5/19/2005 12:48:05 AM # Q

Check this out from the New York Times (David Pogue):


"The most serious cause for pause, though, is the LifeDrive's unfortunate case of narcolepsy. To save power, the hard drive stops spinning between uses. That's fine. What's not so fine, however, is that it takes six seconds to spin up again and feed its data into the palmtop's memory so you can use it.
As a result, your work is frequently interrupted by maddening, six-second visits to the dead zone. Everything is frozen on the screen, no button works and your workflow comes to a crashing halt. There's no progress bar or "wait" cursor, either - only a little light at the top of the case tells you: "Please hold; your work is very important to us."
These lapses are particularly frequent just after you've turned on the LifeDrive for the very first time. Open the calendar: six seconds. Switch to Week view: six seconds. Open the address book: six seconds. Back to the Home screen: six seconds.""

RE: Hard Drive: Six seconds lag time!!!!
Gekko @ 5/19/2005 8:37:39 AM # Q

me2w - nice catch. This alone scares me away.

http://tech2.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/technology/circuits/19pogue.html



RE: Hard Drive: Six seconds lag time!!!!
Masamune @ 5/19/2005 8:45:51 AM # Q
Damn. That's not good - I had an old IBM 340Mb Microdrive in a Pocket PC and there were never any pauses as long as that...

RE: Hard Drive: Six seconds lag time!!!!
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 9:33:16 AM # Q
>>>I had an old IBM 340Mb Microdrive in a Pocket PC and there were never any pauses as long as that...

That's because you had everything in RAM. This six second stuff sounds like everything is on a hard drive partition.

Geez, this would be like using the GENIO again!

Reply to this comment

LifeDrive ZEN?

Gekko @ 5/19/2005 1:19:26 AM # Q
PalmSource: The Path to Enlightenment

Handhelds excel at perceived speed.

A handheld must be quick to use. A handheld is like a sports car because it gets the user from one place to another quickly. The actual technical specifications of a handheld are of little real interest to the user. What matters is how quickly she can reach for the device, open it, find the appropriate information, and proceed with her other tasks. How long this interaction takes can be described as perceived speed. It is a measure of the user's subjective experience with the handheld. The user doesn't care how fast the wheels are spinning, if the car is elevated on a rack. People use handhelds to do things--now!

A Balance of Features

Palm's first product was successful because it struck a balance among the following key qualities:

• Pocket size
• Fast response
• Easy to use
• Low cost and high value
• Worry-free battery life
• Seamless connection with PCs

Summary: The Zen Approach

Before we go, let's review a minute. To design great Palm OS products you must set aside the instincts that you may have learned in the PC world. Avoid the siren call of "features for features' sake." It will lead you down the path of suffering and small market share. Instead, focus on the user's experience with your product. Convenience and usability are power.

Most importantly, focus on the inner tranquility of the customer. Do you swear at your computer? (If not, you must know plenty of people who do.) Machine hangs. "*&#*#!!!" Lost data. "*@#$(@#!!" Network down. "&#@^$*#?!" Have you ever noticed you don't feel that way with Palm OS products? Want to see your schedule? Press a button and there it is. You're in control. You don't wait. You don't get confused or frustrated. It's all very elegant and pleasing.

You must prevent your products from becoming complex and frustrating. Yet you must continue to innovate to differentiate your product from the competition. Add more, but only if you sweat the details, focus on solutions, and keep it easy-to-use.

Remember that your goal is not to satisfy some marketing team's check list of features. Your goal is a creative and challenging one.
It is to serve your customers while preserving their inner tranquility—the Zen of Palm.

http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/zenofpalm/Enlightenment.html#971754



Give it up, Geeko. Everyone knows Zen is dead.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/19/2005 1:42:26 AM # Q
You know as well as anyone here that the "Zen of Palm" was simply marketing BS from 5 years ago designed to make Palm's decision to use bargain basement hardware seem like a good thing. Analogous to how Steve Jobs somehow managed to spin the iPod shuffle's lack of features as a bonus.


But this is now 2005 - not 1999. The Zen of Palm won't sell in a PDA culture expecting Wi-Fi, VGA screens, multi GB storage, Microsoft Office compatibility, MP3, MPEG, DiVX and everything else eschewed by the laughable "Zen of Palm" spin. The Zen of Palm is dead. Long live the Zen!


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: LifeDrive ZEN?
Scott R @ 5/19/2005 10:49:59 AM # Q
I believe that Palm (Michael Mace specifically?) publicly distanced themselves from the "zen" philosophy a long time ago. I suspect that the true believers of zen at palmOne and PalmSource are all gone (or working part-time while they work on alternative brain theories). My Treo 650 is a great example of adding features and losing zen. The 600 had great zen. The 650 has more features but has taken several steps back in usability and reliability.

They shall reap what they have sown.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: LifeDrive ZEN?
Gekko @ 5/19/2005 11:17:41 AM # Q

If Zen means:

• Pocket size
• Fast response
• Easy to use
• Low cost and high value
• Worry-free battery life
• Seamless connection with PCs

I think it can/should still be an enduring goal for PDA makers - even while adding features and functionality. These characteristics/expectations are reasonable and should be attainable given the technology and economics of 2005. I believe DELL, INTC, and MSFT will eventually get us there.



RE: LifeDrive ZEN?
Sid_Sid @ 5/19/2005 11:36:30 AM # Q
To continue with the religious analogy, if the original Palm and many subsequent models were Zen, then the LifeDrive is Catholicism.
(no offense meant towards Catholics)

RE: LifeDrive ZEN?
cbowers @ 5/20/2005 1:31:46 PM # Q
Well at least we can look forward to the LifeDrive product family growing a little faster than before then.

Reply to this comment

Sony SJ series

Brundmc @ 5/19/2005 6:44:14 AM # Q
Is anyone else reminded of the sony sj series clies?
Reply to this comment

A few Questions...

G__Man @ 5/19/2005 10:53:47 AM # Q
Waiting for my exams to finish before i get this fantastic new handheld, oh and also for a crystal case and screen protectors to become available.

I have a few questions though that maybe some body can answer:

1) vibrating alarm?
2) hard reset clears everything or not?
3) does the 64mb of RAM work like a 'normal' handheld allowing for fast access times?
4) is there new alarm sounds yet? can you use mp3's?
5) usb charging?

i apologize if some or even all of these have been answered all ready but i think they should all be gathered in one place instead of spread over 120+ comments

G__Man

RE: A few Questions...
Surur @ 5/19/2005 11:08:25 AM # Q
To demonstrate I have been paying attention I will answer some questions:

1) vibrating alarm?

Of course not. It would shake the HDD to pieces!

2) hard reset clears everything or not?
Yes

3) does the 64mb of RAM work like a 'normal' handheld allowing for fast access times?
The 64MB is on the HDD. There is 32MB of real ram, which caches the last few used apps and some commonly used apps. This causes an initial lag the fist time an app is used, but it loads speedily afterwards (probably until the next soft reset)

Surur

RE: A few Questions...
gizmoguy @ 5/19/2005 1:26:50 PM # Q
I WAS still so confused about the 64mb ram question, until I found this detailed spec sheet. It seems to me like there's 64mb of 'real ram' that's not HD-based.

http://tinyurl.com/brfxj

RE: A few Questions...
Surur @ 5/19/2005 1:56:36 PM # Q

The Gadgeteer confirms the 32 Mb cache, and also the laggy startup of programs:

The only memory on the PDA itself is 32mb of RAM where the programs run from. When I learned about this, I was worried about several things: battery life, noise, vibration and system speed.

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/palmone-lifedrive-review.html

The 64Mb is just a partition.

Surur


RE: A few Questions...
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 2:12:27 PM # Q
Who wrote that spec sheet?

=========

# How to identify
# "LifeDrive" logo, centered above screen. This is the first mobile manager to bear this name.

# Silver metal exterior, rounded edges.

# 4GB hard drive in addition to 64MB Program Memory. Do not confuse it with the Tungsten T5, whose hard drive is 256MB.

=========

T5 has a hard drive?!

And I notice under What's In The Box that they are no longer including a free screen protector. Hey, Ed Colligan -- did YOU sign off on that bit of stinginess?!

RE: A few Questions...
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 3:03:39 PM # Q
re: Lack of screen protector. Julie the Gadgeteer says one is included. Is this another WTF? First the varying OS versions in reviews, now protector Yes/No?

RE: A few Questions...
benjin @ 5/19/2005 3:55:45 PM # Q
Anyone have a 4GB microdrive? How much space is left after formatting? 3.8GB?

RE: A few Questions...
Altema @ 5/19/2005 4:08:51 PM # Q
"T5 has a hard drive?!"


No Mike, the T5 took a hard DIVE.

;)

RE: A few Questions...
benjin @ 5/19/2005 4:41:36 PM # Q
I was just reviewing the FCC photos... the inside pic shows a 5GB microdrive... formatted by a top notch company, I bet you could easily get 3.8GB out of it, plus 64MB of "memory".

http://tinyurl.com/dlltk


Reply to this comment

Life Drive via WiFi or BT?

Dolmangar @ 5/19/2005 2:39:22 PM # Q
After looking at the Palm1 site it appears as if the Life Drive File management is only available when you plug in a sync cable.

Anyone got any word on being able to share files via WiFi or BT? Wouldn't that be great if you could access the files on the LD without a cable? Otherwise you'll always have to carry the cable around to get the files off. Even if you copy to a SD card, my laptop doens't have a built in card reader.

If this type of access isn't possible, isn't it a huge hole? I'm hoping that with WiFi you'll be able to access the network shares on your machine and at least access it that way.

Anyone seen this come up anywhere? With 233+ comments it's possible I missed an answer to this.

-Mike


RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 3:05:38 PM # Q
WiFile is included. That might allow something similar, but only via WiFi. You've come up with a great idea for a third party dev here. I hope someone does it! BT/WiFi -- and IR!

RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
Altema @ 5/19/2005 4:05:09 PM # Q
You should be able to browse the files fine over BT. I do that now with both my T3 and my S66 phone.

RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
bquin @ 5/19/2005 4:18:56 PM # Q
I have been able to sync with BT and transfer files btw. my T3 and my BT pc, but I have yet to figure out how to browse files. Could you explain, please...

Bquin
...laughing at a world too absurd to take seriously...
RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 5:06:45 PM # Q
Hell, ask Ryan if he'd publish this as a PIC tutorial. I'm interested!

RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
rsc1000 @ 5/20/2005 9:47:02 AM # Q
>>WiFile is included. That might allow something similar, but only via WiFi. You've come up with a great idea for a third party dev here. I hope someone does it! BT/WiFi -- and IR!

Yeah - noty a lot of mention of this which is odd because including WiFile was a good move. Correct me if I am wrong - but the version of wifif that you can buy will let you browse your network shares using both wifi and bt - so should it not be the same here? With the BT it will involve extra config though i assume.

Hot Sync via WiFi?
Dolmangar @ 5/20/2005 3:01:53 PM # Q
In the past I have configured my palm to hotsync over the network thru another computer. ie. Had BT connection to a laptop with the hotsync software, that was connected via wifi to my home network, that connected via the network to my desktop that was the "home base" for my palm.

The hotsync works fine that way, what I would like to know is if I'll be able to hotsync straigh over WiFi to my computer on the network.



RE: Life Drive via WiFi or BT?
cbowers @ 5/21/2005 2:29:15 AM # Q
Yes, that's built into the Windows Hotsync software. Mac users have Bluetooth only, unless they supplement with "The Missing Sync".

Reply to this comment

Slumming in PPC dumpsters

mikecane @ 5/19/2005 3:21:55 PM # Q
I wanted to see what PPCT had to say about the LD. Nothing. That's a first.

But those here who said Garmin dropped PalmOS, well, maybe they've dropped WinMob too!

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,40094

RE: Slumming in PPC dumpsters
mikecane @ 5/19/2005 3:24:07 PM # Q
&^%$#ing PIC URL parser.

Take two: http://tinyurl.com/9pgca

Reply to this comment

Hardware Hack for Live

TrafficGeek @ 5/19/2005 6:35:29 PM # Q
One wonders how diffcult it will be to replace the microdrive with a 1GB CF Flash card.

I personnally don't need 4GB of storage as I'm a "old school" PDA user. But I do value the updated software, the wireless connectivity, and the screen(....hmmmm). T5 was close but the lack of WiFi was stupid.

Technically this shouldn't be to diffcult...assuming the microdrive IS a CF type drive and not some new specie. Need to be careful with partitioning for the 64MB of application space. Also wonder what this will do for over all peformance and battery life.

Reply to this comment

FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets

Gekko @ 5/19/2005 8:58:21 PM # Q

My Prediction? MORE PAIN.

-----
jimwms
New Post 05-20-2005 01:39 AM
Long resets

I've had my LD for most of the day (CompUSA). For my uses, the size isn't a problem. Really, though, this doesn't seem like a Tungsten upgrade, but a new class of mini-laptop.

I've had a couple of lockups that required a standard push of the reset button. Each time, it take a full FOUR MINUTES to come back to a functional state. Are other people seeing this?

Thanks!

Jim

http://discussion.brighthand.com/



RE: FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets
AdamaDBrown @ 5/20/2005 2:50:00 AM # Q
Mine takes 67 seconds, not 4 minutes.

RE: FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets
mikecane @ 5/20/2005 10:12:10 AM # Q
I wonder if one of the programs he's put on does something during the startup queue, and that's causing the added delay?

I'm tempted to say 57 seconds ain't bad -- but who am I kidding?!!?

RE: FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets
bcombee @ 5/20/2005 4:08:40 PM # Q
I can confirm that it takes about 60 seconds to do a soft reset. The first fifteen seconds are spent loading the system ROM image from the hard drive into the 16MB of RAM allocated for the system. The next forty seconds are spent in booting Palm OS 5, which includes copying a number of databases into the program storage space. There's about five seconds for showing the LifeDrive logo, then it launches the Preferences application. A no-notify reset which doesn't send the "I've been reset" launch code to applications boots in about thirty seconds, so it looks like it takes about twenty seconds to load all the apps on my device into memory to send them a launch code when the DBCache is empty. Fortunately, that one of the few "sent-to-everyone" launch codes, the other main one being the "global find" code, although that's only sent to a screen-full of apps at a time and its under user control.

RE: FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets
Tuckermaclain @ 5/21/2005 1:33:01 PM # Q
60 seconds or four minutes--unacceptable. Especially when you throw in the Data Mangler patch. Maybe OS5 will be the Zenith for Palm. This reboots more slowly than my desktop. I'm hypoimpressed. No more upgrades for a while for me. OS5 is much more useable, IMHO.

VisorDeluxe->Vx->500->505->515->T1->T2->SJ33->Z71->T3->Z72->Treo650->Z72

RE: FOUR MINUTE Soft Resets
Tuckermaclain @ 5/21/2005 1:40:07 PM # Q
Before you flame, I mean the pre-HD OS5.

Reply to this comment

Explain something to me...

rsc1000 @ 5/21/2005 11:38:32 AM # Q
OK - so p1 has released a device that addresses most of the serious short-comings with the T5 and adds wifi and a 4GB HD. Personally, this is just what I wanted. There are a lot of niggling compliants about small details that to me really don't matter - except 1 biggy: the 64 MB of 'RAM' is actually on the harddrive.

Now to be honest, I don't understand the difference between the NVFS files system and the VFS files system - so maybe there is something there (i know that NVFS reads/writes in much larger blocks and that this p!ssed off a lot of treo users moving to the 650 as it meant their data took up more space and that this was addressed with a patch). But what was the functional gain by moving to this?

Some, like Mike Cane, like to state that the problem with Palm is that there is no real file system. Personally, i think the 'flat' or 'horizontal' file system for main memory is fine (this flat view for main files is easy for all to understand and doesn't diverge from the paradign that made palm a hit in the 1st place) and VFS is an adequate file system (a real files for everything else; really all that is missing is that the App Launcher should switch to a file explorer view (yes there are apps that do this but it should be out-of-box) when you select the card category and 'drive mode' should have been in the OS a long time ago. With that capability to access the VFS system, I can see my folders and files from my desktop and from my device.

So now my point: what in %$#%ing hell was p1 thinking by NOT making that 64MB REAL ram?!?!?! As i said - they payed attention this time out and fixed a lot of small complaints that [people have had for a while now. They get it all just about right - and then do this stupid little maneuver, which results in:

- slow response time
- poor/fair battery life even with the rather large battery they gave it
- 1 minute soft rest
- hard reset that wipes your hard-drive ands takes 5 min or 20something mins to do so depending on the option you chose for formatting (can somebody verify this? is there another hard reset that doesn't reformat the drive?).

...all of these could have been avoided if they had just kept exactly the same memory system they have had for a few years now. So tell me: what would be wrong with keeping things EXACTLY as they have been and just treating the damned HD exactly the same as my T3 treats the SD card? What advantage do we gain by this new system? For that matter - what do we gain by 'NVFS'?? I am really confused here.

RE: Explain something to me...
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 12:45:54 PM # Q
Ben Combee answered the RAM bit above: basically increased cost and lowered per-charge battery life. Frankly, I'd put up with both -- and at $500, they should have gone with Real RAM and a scheme that would backup that RAM to the HD (maybe every time the device is plugged in to charge or when the battery hits a certain level).

But apparently p1 has a different agenda and at the top of their alleged "Suggestions/Complaints from Users" was "I don't like to lose my data if I forget -- or am too damned stupid -- to recharge." Hence NVFS.

Windows Mobile is doing something similar, but we've yet to actually see how this will work with WM5 -- and how it will work when HDed PPCs start flowing.

Right now,I'd like to see more LDs in the hands of everyday *users* and see what they have to say. HHawk here is pleased and someone else posted a link to a 1rsc board where another user is debunking complaints that have been posted from those who (like me!) *don't* have the LD.

RE: Explain something to me...
rsc1000 @ 5/21/2005 1:00:35 PM # Q
>>Ben Combee answered the RAM bit above: basically increased cost and lowered per-charge battery life.

Can it really save battery by using the power-sucking HD for everyting instead of micro amount of battery required to keep data for traditional RAM setup?

RE: Explain something to me...
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 3:46:47 PM # Q
>passing the buck to Ben, who made that assertion!<

RE: Explain something to me... Lucy
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 4:40:19 PM # Q
Can it really save battery by using the power-sucking HD for everyting instead of micro amount of battery required to keep data for traditional RAM setup?

REAL RAM™ takes some overhead to keep data in memory when the device is turned off. I don't have the figures (only Palm's engineers can say for sure) but I suspect the Microdrive's overhead is greater than that required for sustaining files in REAL RAM™. [I believe Mr. Combee is back doing his Palm Apologist function again.]

Let's cut the bull and call it like it is: Palm cut corners on the LD design, just like it has cut corners on almost every other PDA it has released in the past three years. These decisions have come back to bite Palm in the a$$ over and over again, yet still they continue to pinch pennies where pennies should not be pinched.

Please keep PIC a "No Bull Zone".



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Explain something to me...
neilmitchell @ 5/21/2005 5:19:47 PM # Q
There is no reason you can't have REAL RAM and a Hard Disk Drive (HDD) and get most of the benefits of both. When in regular use the RAM us used for all program execution and data (giving fast execution and no perceived system delays). When "switching off" this is shadowed (copied) to the NVRAM or HDD. This would see a delay at power on to copy back the shodowed memory state from HDD to RAM but should remove any perceived delays in normal operation. Also since when the machine can power off the memories completly when the machine is off (as the memory contents are shadowed on the HDD) then you get the benefit of lower power drain on power off (memories consumer no power) and the "safety" of keeping all your data in a non-volatile store if you do drain your batteries dry.

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > (back to) T|T3

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: Explain something to me... I'm trying to.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/21/2005 6:21:16 PM # Q
I don't think you understand what I said. The advantage of REAL RAM™ is having instant access to apps (a big part of The Zen of Palm™). Keeping those apps/data "alive" on REAL RAM™ when the PDA is powered off takes battery power. If REAL RAM™ data was not kept alive on power off, you would have to reload it (as you do with CrapRAM™) every time you turn the PDA on. That would defeat the purpose. A compromise would be to have the option to write (back up) the contents of REAL RAM™ to CrapRAM™/MicroDrive when battery charge reaches a pre-defined critical level like Sony did with the UX50.

Palm no longer realizes that improved FUNCTIONALITY should always be a design goal. Especially when it's easily + ineexpensively implemented.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Explain something to me...
mikecane @ 5/21/2005 7:36:19 PM # Q
>>>I don't think you understand what I said.

Maybe he's like most of everyone else here whose eyes just skitter past your feces of wisdom (you can trademark that if you like; in fact, I think it should be your new handle!)...

RE: Explain something to me...
ChiA @ 5/22/2005 12:20:18 AM # Q
> > > Please keep PIC a "No Bull Zone". < < <

How ironic coming from someone who's signature is five lines obsessed with crap!!!

RE: Explain something to me...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 12:42:43 AM # Q
How ironic coming from someone who's signature is five lines obsessed with crap!!!

Human. Not bovine.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Explain something to me...
twrock @ 5/22/2005 2:18:23 AM # Q
So then 'splain this to me: why not just just make one of these babies with a CF slot (in addition to SD of course) and let the end user put whatever the heck size data storage card/microHD they want into it? Spend your manufacturing $ on real RAM. Then implement the suggested "write RAM to non-volatile memory" feature? I just can't seem to figure out the "incredible advantage" of this new hardware and file structure when you're going to lose all of it on a hard reset anyway. Simpleton I may be, but with my BackupMan auto backups to my $50 1gb SD card, I don't fear data loss using the "old" system. (Besides, I've never liked the thought of moving parts on a handheld.)

Sheesh, the more I look at what P1 does, the more I wish they had gone and gotten some help from HandEra. Those people were implementing "solutions" a long time ago that P1 can't seem to catch up to years down the line. (Ok, ok, don't slam me for exaggerating a little; I'm just increasingly frustrated with where this is heading. Please prove me wrong P1 and PSRC; I'd love to have to eat my words. But in case you haven't noticed, the FUD is running pretty thick lately, and much of that is among loyal users!)

Still waiting for a "color HandEra"!

Preaching to the converted...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 3:34:38 AM # Q
So then 'splain this to me: why not just just make one of these babies with a CF slot (in addition to SD of course) and let the end user put whatever the heck size data storage card/microHD they want into it?

Because that would make too much sense.

Spend your manufacturing $ on real RAM.

Amen, Brother!

Then implement the suggested "write RAM to non-volatile memory" feature?

Or just supply users with a $10 copy of BackupMan.

I just can't seem to figure out the "incredible advantage" of this new hardware and file structure when you're going to lose all of it on a hard reset anyway.

With expansion cards as cheap as they are, I don't see the point either. 4 GB is NOTHING. Now if it was a 40 or 60 GB hard drive, I could see a reason for this, but the difference between a 1 or 2 GB card and a 4 GB Microdrive doesn't make up for the Microdrive's downside with Palm's ill-conceived architecture.

Simpleton I may be, but with my BackupMan auto backups to my $50 1gb SD card, I don't fear data loss using the "old" system. (Besides, I've never liked the thought of moving parts on a handheld.)

The big mystery is why can't Palm see something so obvious?

Sheesh, the more I look at what P1 does, the more I wish they had gone and gotten some help from HandEra. Those people were implementing "solutions" a long time ago that P1 can't seem to catch up to years down the line.

Hallelujah! Finally someone else who sees preaches truth. (BackupMan was coded by a HandEra employee, by the way.) Why is a 5 year old TRGpro a better PDA design than a brand new, 2005 Palm? Tungsten 5: I rebuke you! LifeDrive: I rebuke you!

(Ok, ok, don't slam me for exaggerating a little; I'm just increasingly frustrated with where this is heading. Please prove me wrong P1 and PSRC; I'd love to have to eat my words. But in case you haven't noticed, the FUD is running pretty thick lately, and much of that is among loyal users!)

It's not FUD if it's all true...

Still waiting for a "color HandEra"!

It was made several years ago and was hideous. Stock up on Digitizer Driftin' Dungsten 3 (D³) and European (Bluetoothed) CLIE TH55 before they all disappear.

TVoR



------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Explain something to me...
palmhiker @ 5/22/2005 11:22:29 AM # Q
"So then 'splain this to me: why not just just make one of these babies with a CF slot (in addition to SD of course) and let the end user put whatever the heck size data storage card/microHD they want into it?"

Double Amen to that. I just don't ever see palmOne giving us something like this, I am sad to say...

RE: Explain something to me...
twrock @ 5/22/2005 9:06:20 PM # Q
It's not FUD if it's all true...

Still waiting for a "color HandEra"!

It was made several years ago and was hideous. Stock up on Digitizer Driftin' Dungsten 3 (D³) and European (Bluetoothed) CLIE TH55 before they all disappear.

I was going with the literal "fear, uncertainty and doubt", not the implied meaning behind the term. For example:
I fear that Palm is going to die.
I am uncertain if there is anyone at P1/PSRC who will do anything about it.
So I doubt there will be a viable Palm alternative to the "Windows mob" devices in the future.

Regarding the color HandEra, it represents a mythical device many of us former HandEra 330/TRG Pro users dreamed about but have never seen. It isn't the actual prototype color HandEra.

And, yep, I should have snagged that $300 T3 off the shelf before it disappeared.

RE: Explain something to me...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 10:18:48 PM # Q
Regarding the color HandEra, it represents a mythical device many of us former HandEra 330/TRG Pro users dreamed about but have never seen. It isn't the actual prototype color HandEra.

If you're still dreaming of a "Color HandEra", check out a European CLIE TH55 (Wi-Fi + Bluetooth). New ones sell for $600 (if you can find them) and used ones occasionally pop up on eBay. Other than having to use overpriced Memory Sticks instead of CompactFlash cards, the TH55/E is probably as close to being the perfect traditional tablet style PalmOS PDA as we'll ever see.




------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

Reply to this comment

Is there RAM in this device?

silkentiger @ 5/22/2005 6:08:36 AM # Q
I tried reading through all the posts but its gotten quite long. Can anypne just answer one question? According to all these reviews being posted everywhere it seems the speed problem is due to the fact that there is no actual RAM in this device. That the claimed 64megs of ram is actually a 64meg partition from the microdrive. Is this true? Did Palm1 go super cheap and not even include RAM? Or is this just a terrible rumor.

RE: Is there RAM in this device?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/22/2005 10:35:47 AM # Q
There is minimally (probably) a scratchpad RAM area. Maybe sufficiently small (*) that it would be a PR hit to discuss it at all - I looked over the PalmOne spec-sheet et al and there is no RAM mentioned though there is both ROM and disk mentioned.

======

(*) "small" could be megabytes, of course. People are finicky about such "small" amounts, however...

RE: Is there RAM in this device?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/22/2005 10:50:58 AM # Q
Just checked out the FCC website - the online manual for the Lifedrive says it has 64MBytes of RAM. It is not clear if that RAM is the same as the ROM mentioned elsewhere (now that we have RAM that is nonvolatile and ROM that is writeable, the distinction has pretty much disappeared!).


RE: Is there RAM in this device?
Surur @ 5/22/2005 1:45:43 PM # Q

This has been explained many times by people who know.

There is 3.85 GB on the HDD which acts as a built in SD card.

There is a 64MB partition on the HDD which acts as NVFS memory.

There is 32 Mb real memory, of which 16 Mb is ROM for the OS, 10 MB for DB cache and 6MB for "dynamic heap".

Courtesy of bcombee.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7849#107624

Surur

RE: Is there a brain behind this device?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 3:20:48 PM # Q
This has been explained many times by people who know.

There is 3.85 GB on the HDD which acts as a built in SD card.

There is a 64MB partition on the HDD which acts as NVFS memory.

There is 32 Mb real memory, of which 16 Mb is ROM for the OS, 10 MB for DB cache and 6MB for "dynamic heap".

Courtesy of bcombee.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7849#107624

Surur


Ummmmmm... not quite. The LifeDrive has the same Rube Goldberg-style memory allocation seen previously on the Dungsten T "5" and Treo 650, only it's been notched up another level. There is 32 MB of NVFS CrapRAM™ that - like on the Dungsten T "5" and Treo 650 - is broken down into 16 MB for the PalmOS to be inflated into when the device is turned on, and 16 MB for heap memory and space for active apps to play with. Then the 4 GB Microdrive is split into a true storage area and a bogus 64 MB CrapRAM™ partition that is hoped to lessen the overhead (slowdown) of using Microdrive by caching frequently/recently used apps for faster access. At least that's how I understand it ;-O

Clear now? Who are you gonna trust?

pa1mOne is getting too clever for their own good. True disciples of The Zen of Palm would have chosen to go with 128 MB of RealRAM™, the Zodiac filesystem, an SDIO slot and a full power CompactFlash slot. Include a simple (one step!) way to encode video, iTunes-like MP3 management and a real cradle. Total price: $299 - 349. Rebrand a Hitachi Microdrive, sell it for a fair price and let users decide what they want to use for memory. That's what might have brought people back to PalmOS. And 6 months later Palm could have brought ot a version with an OLED screen for $100 more. Instead we get another cynical, gimmicky PDA with "ambitious" T5-style pricing. You'd think Palm would have already learned from the T5 flopping that people now expect value from their hardware. The days of selling $400 Palm Vx with 200% markup are long gone, Palm. Wake up!


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Is there RAM in this device?
silkentiger @ 5/22/2005 4:43:56 PM # Q
Thanks for clearing things up. Quite a dissapointment that Palm1 choose to go this way. I fully agree with you on this one Voice. However, I would've been willing to pay the current retail price if this came with a VGA res screen + the things you mentioned. As it is, waiting 6 seconds between doing anything serious on my PDA (as per some of the reviews I've been reading) is just not acceptable. If I wanted a slow PDA I would pick up a PPC. I am guessing that this sluggish performance is due to this choice of trying to trick people and cheaping out on the actual RAM.

Reply to this comment

Does not make sense to me

Alric @ 5/22/2005 11:29:00 AM # Q
How is this any different from any other PPC with a compact flash slot and 4 GB removable CF drive.

Right, the life drive is $200 more expensive. You can get a 4 GB CF even at Best Buy...

Cheers,

RE: Does not make sense to me
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 5/22/2005 2:58:31 PM # Q
Ummmmm... It's different because it has PalmOS. Some of us dislike the PPC user interface and find PalmOS a much more intuitive system. Of course, now that it's possible to emulate PalmOS on PPC, part of the Palm advantage has gone out the Window(S).

Also, while memory is getting cheap, I challenge you to show where you can get a PPC model with the specs of the LifeDrive AND a 4 GB Microdrive or 4 GB CompactFlash card for only $300 as you imply. I think you're full of sh1t, but please feel free to prove me wrong... Ska.


------------------------
Press release: CUPERTINO, California — February 11, 2005 — Apple® announced today that Steve Jobs will begin selling his own feces to Apple Cultists beginning March 1. Apple's new iPoo™ lineup is expected to easily surpass the iPod shuffle as the company's most popular product. Yes, Apple Cultists can already easily create their own iPoo™, but feces didn't seem cool until Jobs told them it was cool. Remember, kids: the ONLY cool feces is Jobs' highly individualistic, rebellious iPoo™ (coming soon in six different colors/flavors, including the red [hematochezia] and black [melena] U2 GI bleed model)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

Say hello to my little friend...

RE: Does not make sense to me
Alric @ 5/23/2005 3:08:39 PM # Q
You forget how long its been since PPCs with WiFi and bluetooth came out. You can shop around for a Dell X5i and other cheaper PPCs for less than $200.
RE: Does not make sense to me
Alric @ 5/23/2005 3:08:39 PM # Q
You forget how long its been since PPCs with WiFi and bluetooth came out. You can shop around for a Dell X5i and other cheaper PPCs for less than $200.
Reply to this comment

Some Key Questions

athreya @ 5/22/2005 10:27:37 PM # Q
1) Can the lifedrive be used for making PPT presentations to an external display? Whats the output port?Is it possible wirelessly using any software or device (accessory)? Does it come with a remote? Whats the best presentation software available for this in the market today?
2) Is the HDD response response TRULY slow enough to make it a showstopper?
3) Is the email client, always on, all the time, like Blackberry? Does email get PUSHED or is it PULLED?
4)Im planning to purchase the virtual keyboard? www.vkb.co.il to go with this. How does one assess compatibility of the device?
5) Whenever Skype mobile gets released, is this compatible with it?

thanks a lot. I am an old and loyal fan of your website from India. Made all my decisions after reading your reviews only.
Cheers
Athreya

RE: Some Key Questions
MikeInDM @ 5/23/2005 4:25:58 PM # Q
1) Can the lifedrive be used for making PPT presentations to an external display? Whats the output port?Is it possible wirelessly using any software or device (accessory)? Does it come with a remote? Whats the best presentation software available for this in the market today?

==> If it uses the PPT from Docs To Go, no. There are 3rd party presentation kits that work with older Palms, I'm assuming they will update for the LD

2) Is the HDD response response TRULY slow enough to make it a showstopper?

==> Probably not.

3) Is the email client, always on, all the time, like Blackberry? Does email get PUSHED or is it PULLED?

==> I'm assuming it works like Versamail on the T3... set it to pull mail at any designated timeframe. You are only getting hardware, not a complete networked device like the Blackberry.

4)Im planning to purchase the virtual keyboard? www.vkb.co.il to go with this. How does one assess compatibility of the device?

==> dunno...

5) Whenever Skype mobile gets released, is this compatible with it?

==> You are asking if a new device is compatable with software that hasn't been released (or even written)?? I guess that would be up to Skype.


Reply to this comment

CAN a virgin LifeDrive be used as a phone?

SeldomVisitor @ 5/23/2005 6:53:58 AM # Q
Simple question - complicated answer.

Using it as a phone (standalone - no headset) requires simultaneous speaker and microphone use and THAT requires pretty good computational power et al.

So...

Does anyone know (really know, not speculate) if the LifeDrive can do this? If so, what software is used?


RE: CAN a virgin LifeDrive be used as a phone?
twizza @ 5/23/2005 3:49:46 PM # Q
Nope.

If someone makes a VoIP client, then yes. Until then, nope.

mobileministrymagazine.blogspot.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: CAN a virgin LifeDrive be used as a phone?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/23/2005 4:20:06 PM # Q
My question was meant to be a LITTLE more generic than that.

That is, is the LifeDrive CAPABLE of simultaneous speaker and mike use (whether or not it uses IP to do its "phone" comms).


Reply to this comment

Don't need no stinkin' hard DISK drive!

SeldomVisitor @ 5/23/2005 1:14:36 PM # Q
RE: Don't need no stinkin' hard DISK drive!
ChiA @ 5/24/2005 5:28:41 PM # Q
... because you'll end up with the LifeDrive costing $700, that's why!

Quoting from THE VERY SAME ARTICLE you so helpfully link to:

"solid-state disks have never been commercially produced before because flash has one big disadvantage over hard-drive storage: it's much more expensive"

"it will be difficult to compete with hard drive makers on cost"

"Eventually, SSDs [Solid State Disks] will be able to compete with hard drive storage on price but that time is several years away"

Reply to this comment

Check out the new Nokia tablet

SeldomVisitor @ 5/25/2005 9:57:20 AM # Q
Linux-based, huge display, WiFi capable.

$150 less than the LifeDrive.

RE: Check out the new Nokia tablet
SeldomVisitor @ 5/25/2005 10:07:51 AM # Q
Also Bluetooth-enabled - sorry for leaving that out.

RE: Check out the new Nokia tablet
Surur @ 5/25/2005 11:06:54 AM # Q

Its an interesting device, but not appealing to me. Nokia seems very focussed on the consumer market, and may get high volume by doing this. That device is just too large, clunky and consumer orientated to pull out in a meeting. The business market seems to dictate which devices success or fail. (cf. blackberry).

On the other hand, by focussing on comsumer demand, and satisfying this, Nokia may eventually make an end run on the whole handheld market while MS and Palm fight over the geeks.

In the end though I feel Nokia is another Sony: A behemoth with poor focus and poor execution, who does not have the commitment to see the fight through. On the other hand I agree that Nokia is to be feared by all handheld makers, and MS has explicitly and publicly recognized this on a number of occasions.

Surur

PDA Killer?
Surur @ 5/25/2005 1:57:46 PM # Q

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7977737/

My God! I was completely wrong! This device is lovely. Its not for work yet, but as a web tablet for home I'm all over it!

Surur

Reply to this comment

lifedrive needs p2p, bittorrent clients, cough, cough

nerol @ 1/30/2006 2:23:21 AM # Q
you know, for downloading open source os's, linux distro's, etc

palmone needs some p2p or bittorrent clients for uh ... getting linux iso's
Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: