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Comments on: Intel Announces Next Generation XScale Processors

At the Intel Developer Forum, going on now in San Francisco, Intel has announced some details on its next generation XScale technology.
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Go INTC!

Gekko @ 8/24/2005 3:17:00 PM # Q

I love this company!!!



RE: Go INTC!
neuron @ 8/24/2005 3:39:27 PM # Q
Not even a news.
So far, there is no PALM device which use the 624 or 520Mhz processors, let alone 1ghz.

RE: Go INTC!
sr4 @ 8/24/2005 4:18:36 PM # Q
Its advances like this which keep PDA's credible, and may preserve them against ALL turning into smartphones. It will make it a more interesting choice between a 520Mhz qvga phone vs a 1Ghz VGA PDA with WIFI G.

Surur

RE: Go INTC!
LiveFaith @ 8/24/2005 5:01:49 PM # Q
I love their naming schemes Bulvedere ... Monahans ... with names like that, anything on the final product sounds wonderful! I would like to see that handheld running that video too.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Go INTC!
Timothy Rapson @ 8/24/2005 9:23:06 PM # Q
Even if it only offers 800 MZ-like performance with 300MZ-like power usage, it will be an advance. My 300MZ Zire 72 will run whatever I throw at it without a choke or stutter. I would guess that VGA video that already never loses a frame on a 400MZ chip will compress to much smaller sizes and still play smoothly on that 1.25 GZ chip.
I am surprised to learn that they introduced a new video chips too and wonder if that means they are not putting a real video co-processor in the Monahan. I was surprised at the difference in a real video card vs built-in drivers run by the CPU on my desktop. I wonder how fast this 1.25 chip would be if they incorporated a real video area on the chip and put it in a Dell Axim X51v. Would it run graphics as fast as the X50 with separate chip on the board?
I don't use my Zire for videos, other than a very few I have from either the built-in camera or my other video cameras. I might use video more if I had a LifeDrive, or if I got a 4 gig memory card for a future PDA.

RE: Go INTC!
Nycran @ 8/25/2005 1:42:18 AM # Q
"Not even a news. So far, there is no PALM device which use the 624 or 520Mhz processors, let alone 1ghz."

Not true. Our apps make use of the FULL grunt of the CPU of a Tungsten 3 for a sustained period of time. Bring on the fast CPU's!

As perviously said, developers will find a way to make good use of them, and indeed, cpu intensive multimedia platforms like Java and flash will get a massive performance boost.

RE: Go INTC!
AdamaDBrown @ 8/25/2005 3:59:20 AM # Q
Actually, I think Neuron was saying that there aren't any Palm units that use 520 and 624 MHz PXA270 processors, not that there aren't any programs that could use the speed.

The future isn't PDA...
Masamune @ 8/25/2005 5:30:45 AM # Q
It's OQO and it's derivatives. Now if Apple did one usingtheir new OS X for Intel version, that would be a sight worth seeing.

RE: Go INTC!
Geezer @ 8/25/2005 6:17:05 AM # Q
Also I'd just like to point out that whilst it would be true that a multimedia-intensive player like Flash could take advantage of a higher powered chip, you can't actually get Flash for Palm OS unless you have an old SONY or use a hack.
Palm/PalmOne/Palm and PalmSource never thought to license it from Macromedia, who in turn boviously don't think that the Palm OS is enough of a viable platform for them to make it otherwise available.
What a sorry story...

RE: Go INTC!
amike @ 8/25/2005 8:54:35 AM # Q
Geezer: What !!! Palm cannot play Flash(r) !! What a pity... That's sure now. PalmOne is condemned ... as every year :)))))

2000: Palm is dead, Windows come in
2001: Palm is dead, no Palm color
2002: Palm is dead, no Palm multimedia
2003: Palm is dead, no smartphone
2004: Palm is dead, no java
2005: Palm is dead, no PalmOS future
2006: Palm is dead, (see Geezer)

Palm: the never ending story...

RE: Go INTC!
sr4 @ 8/25/2005 9:16:41 AM # Q
{sticking tongue out}
You know how I enjoy this conversation.

must resist, must resist........

Surur

RE: Go INTC!
AdamaDBrown @ 8/25/2005 1:59:02 PM # Q
The OQO is huge, heavy, and dazzlingly expensive. There may be a future in micro-tablets, but it certainly isn't going to be a large market soon unless they can drastically reduce the size, weight, and price. Nobody in their right mind is going to carry around a 1-pound, $1000 gadget, when dedicated 150 gram solid-state handhelds can do many of the same things at a third of the price. It's just a matter of having the software. There may be some specialty applications that call for a full micro-tablet, but until there's no size/weight penalty, and the cost is competitive, I doubt that you'll get many takers.

RE: Go INTC!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/25/2005 2:00:56 PM # Q
Geezer: What !!! Palm cannot play Flash(r) !! What a pity... That's sure now. PalmOne is condemned ... as every year :)))))

2000: Palm is dead, Windows come in
2001: Palm is dead, no Palm color
2002: Palm is dead, no Palm multimedia
2003: Palm is dead, no smartphone
2004: Palm is dead, no java
2005: Palm is dead, no PalmOS future
2006: Palm is dead, (see Geezer)

Palm: the never ending story...

Not to make you look like an idiot or anything but are you aware what has happened to Palm's PDA market share and profitability from 2000 -> 2005? Palm might not be dead, but it's sure doing a good job acting like they're dying.




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

VOR proven right soon?
sr4 @ 8/25/2005 4:22:42 PM # Q
Anyone catch the news that Theres a rumor on Wall Street that PALM is buying back PalmSource.

This link is to an interview:
http://www.marketwatch.com/tvradio/playerfull.asp?siteid=yhoo&dist=yhooBB&guid=%7B23FD2DE5%2D22F7%2D4ADF%2D8851%2DF23363BC3A27%7D

(oh yeah, skip about 2/3 to 3/4 (1/2 actually) of the audio, till u hear them start talking about palmsource).

Note that PalmSource's stock has moved up about 20% in the past 3 days. Yes, it's just a rumor and people will say anything to make money, but again it's possible there may be some validity to this. Palm is at CTIA this weekend, if my memory serves.

I remember hearing or reading that analysts valued Palmsource at $160 million and that is where Palmsource's stock has remained most of today.

Just FYI, it's got relevance to palm economy.

I wrote an article about 4 days ago (about why palm must stay with palmsource) and submitted it to Reggie, where is it? Did it suck that bad?

If your tempted to rush out and buy PSRC stock I certainly wouldn't recommend it, this is just a rumor and it seems to be fairly valued.

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?p=846925#post846925

He's being ignored at 1src.com. Guess no one as deaf as those who dont want to hear.

Surur

OT: long URLs
twrock @ 8/25/2005 8:53:02 PM # Q
Ryan, anyway this board can "abbreviate" long URLs (like the original over at 1src)? I know Surur could have used TinyURL, but probably didn't think about it since it was a quote.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Palm to buy PalmSource. Film at 11.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/25/2005 9:31:19 PM # Q
VOR proven right soon?
sr4 @ 8/25/2005 4:22:42 PM #

Anyone catch the news that Theres a rumor on Wall Street that PALM is buying back PalmSource.

This link is to an interview:
http://www.marketwatch.com/tvradio/playerfull.asp?siteid=yhoo&dist=yhooBB&guid=%7B23FD2DE5%2D22F7%2D4ADF%2D8851%2DF23363BC3A27%7D

(oh yeah, skip about 2/3 to 3/4 (1/2 actually) of the audio, till u hear them start talking about palmsource).

Note that PalmSource's stock has moved up about 20% in the past 3 days. Yes, it's just a rumor and people will say anything to make money, but again it's possible there may be some validity to this. Palm is at CTIA this weekend, if my memory serves.

I remember hearing or reading that analysts valued Palmsource at $160 million and that is where Palmsource's stock has remained most of today.

Just FYI, it's got relevance to palm economy.

I wrote an article about 4 days ago (about why palm must stay with palmsource) and submitted it to Reggie, where is it? Did it suck that bad?

If your tempted to rush out and buy PSRC stock I certainly wouldn't recommend it, this is just a rumor and it seems to be fairly valued.


http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?p=846925#post846925

He's being ignored at 1src.com. Guess no one as deaf as those who dont want to hear.

Surur

Surur, if you think about it, there is NO WAY Palm could survive long term unless they take over PalmSource. I've already outlined in detail why Palm is DEFINITELY going to buy PalmSource back:

http://tinyurl.com/b6ajs

I'm actually amazed that I'm the only one that could see this coming. It seemed pretty obvious, but I guess people here are so naive that they'll believe any B.S. Palm/PalmSource feeds them. I can't wait to hear how they spin the Reunification of Palm. Yes, the RoP is long overdue, but I wonder if the PalmOS platform is too far gone for even this to matter.

Isn't it interesting how our old pal, PalmSource's Marty Fouts has gone into hiding? I hope he's OK.


TVoR/Nostadamus, Inc.ô


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Palm will buy PalmSource back within a few months.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/25/2005 9:47:17 PM # Q
TinyURL didn't work for the link to my original post showing why Palm had to buy back PalmSource. Here's the real link:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8026#111045


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: Go INTC!
PenguinPowered @ 8/25/2005 10:32:19 PM # Q
> Isn't it interesting how our old pal has gone into hiding?

Poor Skippy. Did somebody not pay enough attention to you today?

You're repeating yourself, Skippy. If you write anything interesting enough to respond to, I'll respond.

But, unlike yourself, I have a real life, so don't be surprised if I'm gone from pic for days, maybe even weeks, at a time.



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Faster but slower

Sam H @ 8/24/2005 6:36:15 PM # Q
One slightly worrying aspect of this new XScale variant is that it only offers a 25% performance improvement from a 50% clock speed increase. So while with the x86 architecture Intel may be moving away from the Netburst architecture of the P4 to the PIII-like architecture used in the Pentium M and the up coming (as in in years behind AMD) dual core chips, when it comes to the XScale they are pursuing the same old dead end strategy of stretching the pipeline and upping the headline clock speed in return for ever diminishing performance advantage.
RE: Faster but slower
XmonkeyX @ 8/25/2005 4:29:28 AM # Q
The dual core processors are already available... by the way. You can configure several Dell Desktops with a few variants of the chip. It's pretty cheap stuff!!!

Reply to this comment

And what speed are most Palms running?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/24/2005 10:37:17 PM # Q
While processor speed is not necessarily the be all + end all of PDA design, it would be nice to see Palm at least TRY to keep up with the Jonses.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
hkklife @ 8/25/2005 11:18:28 AM # Q
I'd personally like to see accelerated graphics (ATI Imageon ala Zodiac or even something integrated by Intel )....or Intel's StrataFlash Ram that was highly touted a year or so ago.

So we have the LifeDrive running the same as the T5 and the rumored T7 running 104mhz SLOWER than the previous year's "flagship". Not a good sign.

Actually, I want to see improved SD bus access times and, especially, faster write performance! I have a Lexar 32x and a Sandisk Ultra II card...I want to be able to utilize that speed!

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/25/2005 2:15:19 PM # Q
I'm more interested in real world performance and optimizing battery life. Sony's Hand Held Engine (only 123 MHz) and separate multimedia processing made more sense than trying to brute force high speed chips into PDAs. Full screen, full frame rate video, smooth background playback of MP3 - that's more important than just numbers.

One thing that could drive the MHx numbers race: voice transcription which likely will be the next "killer app" [along with mobile Videophone capability now that bandwidth is finally increasing and Wi-Max is coming].

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
Timothy Rapson @ 8/25/2005 6:57:07 PM # Q
Voice translation to text and Optical Character Reading (OCR). I am very anxious to have a 4 MP camera, a real one, on a model with a 1 gig processor and a very fast 256-512 MB flash memory that can take a picture of a page as if it were scanned on a deskto and then put the editable text right onto the screen. That would be really nice. I think it is still two or three years away at least. OCR never worked on the desktop until we have 600 dots per inch scanners and 256 MB of RAM to dedicate to the task.

I would like to see that as much as Voice recognition, which is still dicey on desktops.

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
hkklife @ 8/25/2005 7:10:49 PM # Q
I just want something with LD-level specs, flash instead of HD, and the ability to last for 3-4 days or so of moderate usage without requiring a recharge. Oh, and Graffiti 1 ;-)


RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
AdamaDBrown @ 8/25/2005 7:45:01 PM # Q
As an aside, Intel's StrataFlash memory is used in a lot of models. As far as I know, all Palms/PPCs that use XScale processors use StrataFlash as their ROM and/or flash memory.

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
hkklife @ 8/25/2005 9:37:13 PM # Q
INDEED? I never knew that. I figured Palm/Intel would make more of a marketing hoopla about that. I knew it was in use in PPC models from various manufacturers but I didn't know Palm/P1 was using it.

On a semi-related note:
Anyone hear the new rumor that Samsung is gonna take a hatchet to their RAM prices so that Apple can use flash in the next line of color iPod Minis? Yup, Sammy's supposedly gonna enable Apple to see a 4gb Mini/Shuffle for the same price as the current 4gb hardrive model. You know, a (stable) 2gb flash-based LifeDrive @ $600 or so is still far more appealing than an (unstable) 4gb HD-based LD. I think Brighthand and Engadget had articles on it today.

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/25/2005 9:58:40 PM # Q
I just want something with LD-level specs, flash instead of HD, and the ability to last for 3-4 days or so of moderate usage without requiring a recharge. Oh, and Graffiti 1 ;-)

If you've got the $$$, pick up a CLIE VZ90 + get a CompactFlash Microdrive. Monstrous storage, flexibility, battery life and luscious OLED screen. Built like a fine Swiss watch, the VZ90 is the Lexus of PDAs.




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
hkklife @ 8/26/2005 8:07:46 AM # Q
How is compatability with existing/legacy apps? Similar to any other OS5 era Clie? Or is it impossibly broken ala LD? If a certain someone would ever post their hands-on review of that model ;- ) I'd actually consider giving it a closer look...but that pricetag IS a killer.

LifeDrive vs. VZ90 head to head...to the death! That'd make a better shootout comparison than the BMW vs. Benz or Lexus vs. Infiniti car mag tests.

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 11:25:39 AM # Q
How is compatability with existing/legacy apps? Similar to any other OS5 era Clie? Or is it impossibly broken ala LD? If a certain someone would ever post their hands-on review of that model ;- ) I'd actually consider giving it a closer look...but that pricetag IS a killer.

OK, OK. I get the hint. Review to come soon. I'm going to rewrite it to give a step by step outline on how to do the English localization and a few other hacks to optimize the VZ90.

I haven't yet found any apps that work on my UX50 to not work on the VZ90, but to be honest I haven't done much testing since playing with the VZ90 the first few weeks I got it. It blows the LifeDrive away so badly it's almost funny. Comparing the LifeDrive to the VZ90 is like comparing a Ford Taurus to a Lexus LS430. You get what you pay for.

If you look around you might get a deal on a VZ90. I bought a used backup VZ90 for only $500 (with a 1 GB Memory Stick included!). These things will probably end up as collectors items - new ones are selling for around $800 - 1100. Insane prices, but that's the price of admission.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
hkklife @ 8/26/2005 12:13:29 PM # Q
Simply tragic that Sony couldn't have held out a few months longer in the US market. I came *this* close to buying an NR70V a few years ago but thought it was too fragile. The VZ90 would be nearly perfect. IIRC the CF slot in the VZ is limited to FAT formatted cards, so a max of 2gb (or possibly less) but between that & the MemoryStick Pro slot, it's certainly usable and enough to give the feeble LifeDrive a run for its money capacity-wise (though not $/mb wise). I still don't want to hazard a hard drive in my pocket with anything more valuable than MP3s & jpegs on it.

Right now the only dealbreakers for me would be the lack of Bluetooth and the relative size of the unit. Cost is a relative factor and, as you said, ya get what ya pay for!

Why do I have the feeling that the VZ90 would have been THE bridge between the "traditional" Clies and an amazing wave of future devices? Had Cobalt not been DOA and had the PalmCONomy not tanked, that vision might have actually come to pass. That's not even factoring the arrival of the PSP into the big picture.

Any idea on roughly how many VZ90s Sony actually ended up selling in Japan?


RE: And what speed are most Palms running?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/26/2005 4:03:47 PM # Q
Right now the only dealbreakers for me would be the lack of Bluetooth and the relative size of the unit. Cost is a relative factor and, as you said, ya get what ya pay for!

There's an add-on Bluetooth dongle from Hagiwara. (I haven't installed the driver yet.)

Why do I have the feeling that the VZ90 would have been THE bridge between the "traditional" Clies and an amazing wave of future devices? Had Cobalt not been DOA and had the PalmCONomy not tanked, that vision might have actually come to pass. That's not even factoring the arrival of the PSP into the big picture.

I agree with you 100%. 2005 would have seen some KILLER hardware from Sony. (The legendary OLED-screened UX100 for starters!) I expected a nice product mix between PalmTops (micro laptops), multimedia players (the VZ90 was the first in this lineage), basic PDAs and eventualy a Treble Wireless Tablet PalmPC (cellphone radio, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth)

Any idea on roughly how many VZ90s Sony actually ended up selling in Japan?

I don't know, but Dynamism apparently sold less than 20 VZ90 in the US! I ended up importing one from a different source.

TVoR




------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm Economy = Communismô
The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

Reply to this comment

Intel Monahans design Announcement by iWave

balgunapriya @ 5/16/2006 7:28:10 AM # Q
iWave announces the Intel Monahans design at ICT Pavilion at HK Electronic Fair

"iWave Systems, a Leading Embedded Systems Design company from Bangalore, announces its new design, the iW-RainboW-Giga, at the ICT Pavilion, HongKong Electronics Fair 2006. Based on Intel Monahans, the iW-RainboW has the necessary form, performance and features to power the next generation hand-held products. iW-RainboW supports both Windows-CE as well as Linux.


Intelís Monahans processor has enhanced MMX2 and Video max technology targeted for Portable Media Players, Smart Phones, Phones and Hand-held market Segments.

www.iwavesystems.com

iWave Systems Technologies is an embedded Hardware and Software Turnkey Design Services company, focused on providing integrated solutions for developing innovative products and systems in the areas of Communication, Consumer electronics and Multimedia. iWave offers complete turnkey solutions for system engineering and product development.



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