Comments on: Rumor: Upcoming Palm Tungsten X and Zire 22 Details

Some of the shortcomings of the TX are noteable, but the $299 price point is a good one. I was on the verge of getting a Pocket PC to replace my fading Clie. If I can wait until October for this TX it will help me to avoid abandoning my beloved Palm OS.

With two forms of wireless, synching wirelessley should help to avoid connector problems.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50

Ok, the loss of the internal storage drive is NOT a big deal. Palm has to plan these things waaaay ahead of time. By the time they got, say, a 512mb "drive" device to market, 2gb SD cards will be close to $100. By the time Palm gets a 1 or 2gb flash drive model to market, 4gb SD cards will be ~$150.

Palm's better off letting the SD flash card market act on its own and just make sure that there's a minimum of 64mb of RAM onboard midrange & highend units. I have NO quarrels with their strategy on this T|X.

There's plenty of room on the top panel of the T5 to add a small microphone for voice recording. Even if they cannot shoehorn a dedicated VR button for it, you could reprogram one of the bottom app hard buttons or just activate it via a stylus stroke. No biggie---I can live w/o a dedicated VR or screen rotate button. Just give us the mic & audio capture hardware!

Similarly, the power buton with the green paint mark on it can easily be replaced by a power button with a glowing green LED to indicate charge status.

Garnet 5.4.9 SHOULD, by all counts, be quit a bit more stable and (hopefully) speedier than older Garnet revisions. Frankly, the T5 performs slower than its 416mhz CPU would indicate. I think that with careful software optimizations for NVFS, the performance issue might end up being a negligable point unless you're REALLY doing some heavy-duty fullscreen video playback.

I've yet to have any major problems with the Athena connector on my T5. Now the T5's cradle is another story but I'd imagine they will get around to designing something that lets the T5 & LD sit more securely anyway...

If the build quality is anywhere CLOSE to the LifeDrive (folks, the LD really IS solidly assembled!) then I can live with a plastic body. Just keep that price at $300 MAX and ENSURE there are no major showstopping bugs in the shipping product and Palm'll have a short-term winner on their hands.

Count me in as an upgrader...it might end up being my last Palm device but I will give this one a shot.

T3 & T5 user

The real issue is "have they fixed the OS"? If it's the same mess the Lifedrive is, then who cares what price it sells at.

I hope this means the LD will get updated to 5.4.9 soon. If they don't fix it, I'm never buying another Palm again.

Also, when is that USB on the go box coming out (if ever)? You know, the thing that was shown on PDAMExico's site that permits any digi cam that is recognized as a mass storage device to pug straight into the LifeDrive and dump picture onto the Microdrive via Camera Companion?

Lets shoot for 100% WIFI hotsynch and an induction charger.

Simon

No way of knowing at this stage how the NVRAM will be partitioned between the virtual db cache and the internal volume. Or how much SDRAM will be on board for that matter. I'm sure there'll be plenty of confusion though. :-)

If you're really that unhappy with Palm and the devices they put out, look for another solution. Obviously by sticking with Palm, you're going to be continually disappointed.

This is also not my first Palm, but my third, having started with a Vx and then an M505 before the T3. Likewise, many friends and family have Palms now, because of me.

It would seem in your world, anyone who is on-board as a user of a certain company's technology has to be a pure fanboy who blindly thinks everything they do is "great" and "perfect" eh? Sorry, Microsoft has enough of them. I'm not like that. I am a Palm fan, but they are not perfect and they are making a lot of mistakes lately. However, unlike you, my attitude is to not be a quitter and jump ship... I detest the alternatives out there a lot more than I am frustrated with the direction Palm is heading these days.

If a good friend of mine gets a drug problem, I don't abandon them and find a new friend. I confront them about their problem in the hopes they can see the light, turn things around, and things can go back to being positive between us. Likewise, this is how I am treating Palm. Instead of silently ditching them and leaving them oblivious of why they're losing customers, I'm sticking around but being vocal.

And I do believe there's nothing in the PIC rules that say that we have to praise every single product Palm produces and worship the scrap plastic they walk on.

The fact is, Palm has abandoned a certain market they used to provide product for. Those of us in that market would like something to upgrade to. It's been a few years now. It's a fact that 2 years ago, the top of the line Palm exceeded the TX in many indisputable ways. In TWO YEARS, we should see more clear-cut evolutionary PROGRESS... not a REDUCTION in MHz, a REDUCTION in features, and LOWER QUALITY case materials.

If YOU think my specific facts and points are invalid and would like to elaborate on why you feel so, that's one thing. However, if you're just going to throw blanket criticism about how I'm just a complainer and should go away, than you're no better than the supposed complainer you accuse me of being.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

HUH? So what? That's expansion card vs Ram (NVFS whatever). Completely different. Plus if the Tx has FAT32, you'll be able to use >>2GB SD card anyway, not to mention any possible Nand storage...

>>>>And I bet there's no way to run G1 on it....

For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH...

>>>>Would it be nice to have the extra on-board RAM and the integrated Wifi? Sure. But it's not worth what you'd have to give up. 3 steps forward, but 10 steps back.

*sigh* what a bunch of BS. Wifi, more ram, BT 1.2 (with A2DP and HID support for things like BT headphones), NVFS and it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!

--------------------
Gaurav

The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld. I am very happy Palm has decided to stick with a winning design and build on it.

- 312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked.

I doubt (because of the low price) there is a camera and a mic, but you never know. The T3 design was good but the slider was bad.

Sounds to me like they might include some sort of baseline TealScript functionality into the control panel where the user can select certain strokes as multi or single strokes.

Barring that, someone can HOPEFULLY hack the T|T G1 libraries one final time to get G1 on this (and future FrankenGarnet) devices.

For the record, and gfunk and I discussed this the other day, 2gb SD cards (generics) are $120ish online nowadays. That's certain to hit $100 by Christmas.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there on that one. The m500 series was by FAR the paradigm of the classic PDA. Small, light, metal body, (fairly) durable and it felt GREAT in the hand. Add to that the side rails for attaching a case and you have a winning design. The T|E and its variants have aped the classic V and m500 design but with only minimal success--I feel the bottom flare is crucial, as is a metal body (or at least a metal bezel w/ plastic backplate).

2nd place goes to the sadly short-lived Visor Edge. All it needed was 2x the RAM, a color screen and an SD slot. It was the RAZR of its time and no one even noticed...

Notice how the T5 casing is so strong, it does not even bend a bit when applying pressure on the dpad.

That pressure can be very high when playing an intense game of MicroQuad. LOL

I can't wait for this TX. :)

Yep. I can store ANY type of file on the expansion card, vs only PRCs and PDBs on the internal memory.

"For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH..."

How exactly does the fact that some people work faster in G1 (what Palm originally raised us on) than G2 affect YOU? How exactly would making an option in preferences so that the user could switch to G1 ruin the life of a G2 "fanboy"? Please explain. Fact is, lots of us work MUCH faster in G1 than G2. If you can't accept or understand that, that's your problem. I'm content to accept YOU work faster with G2. But don't force your G2 on the rest of us who have learned something faster and would like to continue with it. We're not trying to force G1 upon YOU, only have it be an OPTION for US, thanks.

"it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!"

It's hard to respect having an intellectual talk with someone who resorts to stuff like that. But I'll feed the troll tonight... if you can't value the benefits of a metal case, obviously you haven't owned enough of them and have given-in to the brainwashing of manufacturers that plastic is "good enough". Hint: my CELL PHONE has a REAL metal case too, and it's no accident.

If you can't understand why anyone on the planet could possibly find anything better than G2 for input and that G2 is god's gift to all PDAs, then you're just being plain childish. FACT: G1 is faster for a lot of people. FACT: G1 was the default Palm input method for FAR more years than G2. FACT: Palm did NOT switch to G2 because it was FASTER than G1. FACT: No one is asking you to give up G2, so chill.

And you totally avoided that the T3, while 2 years older, is 28% FASTER than the TX. And that a vibrating alarm is CRITICAL not only for the corporate customer but for many other people who simply don't wish to always be disturbing those around us with our electronic gadgets. Next time you hear someone's cell phone obnoxiously ring in the movie theater I want you to consider how you disregarded the importance of a vibrating alert.

VampireLestat: "The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld."

I agree there. I think the form-factor and overall physical design (aside from the plastic case) of the T5/TX is nice. They just need to take the T3 features as a BARE MINIMUM and choose a bunch to improve upon (given 2 years of R&D evolution). Without backing off any of the features present in the T3, because there's no need, no reason, and no excuse for it.

Although I have to agree with hkklife that I think the V form-factor was even better (having owned a Vx for a long while).

"312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked."

I don't know about you, but I've bogged down my 400MHz T3 on occasion. Maybe if we were still within a few months of the release of the T3 it'd be appropriate to release another supposed "top of the line" PDA that was SLOWER. But not after a full year... and certainly not after TWO. CPU R&D has just progress FAR too much to make that valid. If we extended that logic we'd all be forced to be content with 1GHz systems on our desktops, and next year they'd try to sell us on a brand-new 800MHz system. Heh

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

Ble....get over dude. G1 is dead and so is Elvis. Stop harping on useless nonsense. It's not coming back. REPEAT. IT IS NOT COMING BACK. Now go get a cookie or something... *YIKES*

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Gaurav

Gekko, in fairness, nothing performs perfectly when dropped on a hard stone surface. I once accidently bobbled my m505 and dropped it on a slate surface, resulting in small dents and chips on the bezel. I've also seen a plastic-cased Dell Axim (one of the old X3s) that met a concrete parking lot without protection. No dents, but lots of chips in the plastic.

I can certainly understand the desire for a metal case, and I even agree that a high-end device really should have one, but even metal isn't indestructible.

Best Form:
V & m5xx are both tough as nails, attractive and great with the dual rails. But, one thing that I am glad is left behind is the width. They are just too wide to be comfortable in a normal sized hand IMO. The T3 has the same hourglass shape, but handles much much better for me. Maybe for NBA players it is not a problem, but it was for me.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

I did. Slight scratch on top right corner. Have to look REAL close to tell it's not metal. I wouldn't recommend dropping your T5, but mine came through alright.

I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.

I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.

It all depends on construction quality. Old Palms/TRGs had well-constucted plastic cases that were durable with their integrated flip lids. But as good as these are, they can't hold a candle to high quality METAL cases like the magnesium alloy case in the CLIE UX50. I've dropped my UX50 onto floors, concrete and pavement probably 20 times in the past 2 years (don't drink and Palm, Kiddies!) and have carried it around in pockets + bags the whole time as well. The case still looks NEW other than a 2 mm gouge sustained after a 10 foot drop onto some rocks on a local trail. At first each time I would pick it up gingerly after a fall, open it up and be SHOCKED to find everything working perfectly. NOW when I drop it I EXPECT everything will be fine. Magnesium cases make you c0cky as he11... ;-O

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I personally had that problem on my Pilot 1000, Palm Pilot Pro, and a IIIc. My IIIe lost the bottom half of the screen's digitizer instead of having cracking plastic. I had to wrap tape around my stylus to keep it securely in the silo due to the wiggling strip of cracked plastic.

So compared to THOSE days, the quality of plastics on low-end PDAs has improved somewhat. That said, I still prefer metal cases, plain & simple. There was just no going back after going to a Palm V from the III series. The m500 did a nice job--metal front bezel with plastic back panel to save $ and weight. The LifeDrive seems to have a similar construction. If Palm keeps on sticking harddrives into their units, aluminum will become important for heat dissipation.

Question for the M$ faithful: Has there ever been a metal-clad WinCE/PPC/WinMob handheld?

I think the 41xx & 19xx iPaqs had that beautiful form factor in at least the front portion in aluminum. Wasn't Toshiba's thin model aluminum. More recently, the new Toshiba (blue) is too I think. Also, HPs massive 4700 is magnesium I believe, not to mention the Pocket Loox which looks it, but I;ve never handled. Oh yeh, those later Jornadas with the built in flip lid were aluminum too, but what a stupid waste of frontal area on that form factor.

... corrections welcome.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Palm COULD make that (metal casings) a hallmark of the Tungsten & LifeDrive lines going forward. Since the WinMob units keeep getting chunkier and chunkier, a metal-bodied, dual wireless 320*480 modernized PalmV could still work wonder for the public perception of Palm.

For that same price, the Tx sound alot better imo with dual wireless, more ram and higher rez screen...

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Gaurav

Surur

What are you talking about? At $300 price point, this is a midrange pda for palm. The LD is obviously the high end. Besides, I can't personally justify >>$300 bucks for a pda these days anyway. Those days are loooong gone imo and the market for high end pricey handhelds is very miniscule...

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Gaurav

I have been hearing that Palm was not redoing their Zire 72 and looking a lot at an Axim X50v or its replacement. I have been hoping that Dell would offer a sub-$400 VGA model with a camera. If this model has all the above post projects, I might wait until FITALY supports it and it has a few months without major problems and some discount of the list price. I am not in a hurry. I would still like a multi-tasking, real file supporting, graphics working OS, but, to my great surprise I might go for yet another Palm even without that if this model pans out well.

Still, HP has been radically overpricing and under-specing some of their recent models (See the rz1715, for instance) so I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they wanted $300 for that. In this market, they shouldn't be charging more than $200 for those specs. Hell, the Axim X30 used to run $260 for 624 MHz, 64 MB/64 MB, WiFi, and Bluetooth. You really shouldn't look at HP for cutting-edge hardware: they prefer to sell well back from the sharp part, relying on their name brand and retail presence to move units.

Timothy, Dell isn't going to do anything with a camera. They prefer to stay away from the cameras, because they want to make a device that can be used in workplaces that ban cameras. Besides which, they see it as something of an unneccessary feature that doesn't really add to the usefulness of the device. If you really want an Axim with a camera, you can always get a Veo 130S SDIO camera card. It's 1.3 MP, and from what I've seen actually takes very good quality shots.

I agree. HP relies A LOT on their brand name to make up for selling less than stellar products. I changed over to the X30h when the T5 came out, and upgraded to the X50v when the LD came out. I'm way past the learning curve on PPC, and can use it well. My wife on the other hand, never really developed a liking of PPC, and still hangs on to her Z2. At first, when I read the title of this thread, I thought, GREAT, Palm is coming out with an awesome new PDA. My personal favorite Palm of ALL TIME was my m515, and this looked a lot like that one. But, as many have pointed out, there are a lot of things lacking on this pda in comparison with specs from competing pdas, and I don't think I'll be swithing back anytime soon. My wife, on the other hand, will probably LOVE the Tx, so we'll see.

All good things...

http://www.brighthand.com/article/FCC_Approves_iPAQ_rx1950?site=PPC

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Gaurav

Dont forget, the whole future of POS depends on the ONE OEM, Palm, to produce the whole line, whereas there are tens of models of PPC's serving all niches being released all the time.

Surur

Surur

1) I'd use the PDA a lot more often than I'd use the GPS in it, and so would regret the weight.

2) GPSes embedded into other devices are whimpier than pure GPS devices. I'd rather have a good PDA and a good GPS than both.

3) GPS eats batteries.

I think the 'trendy' GPSes are the ones that go in cellphones as a requirement of E911. They are, for the most part, not particularly good GPSes.

Marty Fouts
Lead Linux Lizard
PalmSource Core Technology Department

You have your personal preferences, but this is the current fashion, and Palm is not competing currently in this game.

Surur

1) Palm sells 80+% of POS handhelds, and probably even more now.
2) If they want POS to serve all the handheld niches Palm will have to be the one to do it.
3) They are neglecting an important are which has been proven to sell add significantly to the saleability of PDA's

Of course there are other ways to get GPS, some even better, such as bluetooth GPS (thats what I have) but many PPC producers have found selling devices with built-in GPS (which is less intimidating to newbies) have given them a huge leg-up in sales.

GPS is the new WIFI. Your arguments sound the same as the arguments which said built-in WIFI is unnecessary.

If not the tungsten X, then they should sell at least ONE device with GPS built-in. To sell NONE is slow suicide.

(Yes, I know about Garmin)

Surur

Who needs a PDA?

My company has done some custom GIS software projects recently for very low-end Java-enabled phones with built-in GPS and I was astounded at how well the GPS receivers in these sub-$100 devices worked. They acquired the satellites much faster and with the same accuracy as my Garmin eTrex receiver. The only way I can account for this is that they use a technology called AGPS (A for "assisted") which somehow supplements the standard GPS with triangulation from the nearest cell towers.

I'm amazed that Nextel is the only company to date that has thought providing an open API to the GPS on the phone was a good idea. It's given Nextel a big edge over the competition (despite their limited network) when it comes to a lot of corporate deployments. Wonder if we'll see Sprint following suit now that their acquisition of Nextel is complete.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

As I've said, the Palm PDA line-up can not be called cutting edge if it does not even have a GPS model. Fujitsu Siemens Corp has once again justified their Sony like position of building the best high-end PPC's by adding greater value to their PDA line-up with GPS.

Their top-of-the-range model will apparently have 128Mb RAM, 256MB Flash ROM, Wifi G, Bluetooth, GPS and a VGA screen. Its not going to cost $300, but then they have added the features to justify their $600 price.

They say PDA's are dead, but if everyone just continue to churn out the same reheated model then they are sure to die. Its ambitious companies like FSC who push the envelope which keep PDA's alive.

What will be Palm's response?

Surur

I like my 320x480 screen, it gives me room to see things properly (movies, Excel, Word, ebooks, games).

With the rumoured specs, I am buying a TX.

320x320 accomplishes everything you need in order to get real work done.

If you want to play, get a Game Boy or PSP.

You are trying to argue that a 12" TV is better than a 20" TV...

Actually, I think PDA phones are great, but I don't want one. I prefer two devices that are each great at what they do. I have a PDA with a large screen and many capabilites tucked away in one pocket, and the RAZR that it connects through tucked discreetly in the other. They are best friends. On Friday night, I take the phone and leave the PDA home. I think using a bulky PDA phone looks just as dorky as having two devices on your Batman belt.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50

Regardless, I want a 320x480 screen. If my Tungsten has BT, WiFi, WiMax and a cell phone transmitted all built into the back and barely makes it thicker, I am all for it. :)

But as a consumer, I want that 320x480 screen.

PDAs are different than cell phones. The features and requirements are different enough and conflict enough that cellphones won't replace PDAs any more than spoons replaced forks. PDAs need to be large enough to be useful for the wide range of applications people run on them. Cell phones need to be small enough to comfortably hold to the face. I loan out my cell phone, I'd never loan out my PDA (there's FAR too much more critical info and apps on my PDA). If I'm going on certain trips, I won't even risk bringing my PDA... but I'll still bring my cell phone for safety. Cell phones work best with physical keys, while most people find they can make due with a full touch-screen of a PDA. The list goes on and on...

Just because two electonic gadgets share SOME common features doesn't mean they practically CAN and SHOULD be converged. Do I think the Treo shouldn't exist? Of course it should, if there's a market. But what I don't believe is that "PDAs are DEAD". That's just an absurd statement on the calibre of some zombie marketing droid trying to spin customer perception in whatever direction will pocket his company the most cash.

I could converge a moped and a snowblower too, I mean, they both have an engine, wheels, a seat, need to be driven around... and wouldn't people like to only have 1 thing instead of 2? Heh

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

One of the all time stupidest comments ever posted. I am so sick of that SSS SLOP I can't stand it. I went from a Sony NR70V to these two Palm Zire 70s and have regretted that stupid SSS every day. I try to use the PDA in the dark, but can't because the entry area is not lit up. I try to see any reasonable amount of text or view a nice picture and all I get is eye strain and a tiny window into a small part of what I have been used to seeing.

Decide for yourself all you want, but leave the rest of us to make our own choices about "everything *WE PERSONALLY* need in order to get real work done."

"converged moped and snowblower..." hahahahaha good one :D

I could have an Orange SPV M2000 from work. But I like having a phone and a PDA. Different people have solutions that work for them.

I just wish my T3 had Wi-Fi. The Wi-Fi card is just a pain. Mine just died!

Two Palm OS smartfones will have 320x480 this fall. Take your pick and everyone's happy:

Treo 800g (GPS included)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg

Samsung i733 (Cingular)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/samsungi733.JPG

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

And for the last time, nonwireless PDAs are dead. Connected PDAs are all that you will want from this point out, whether BT, BT/wifi, bt/wifi/gps, or cellualar that are your options. SO suck it up and get connected (one device or two) and join the fray.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

The i733 is all you'll need. I heard that Cobalt has a 10% increase in clipboard limit. I hope you can confirm that. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

The WM Apache/Wizard design is the closest to this, but still needs work. My mockup was created ages ago. What's taking so long for someone to do this?

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

8^)

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

I just never get tired of knowing what is coming thanks to LiveFaith's topnotch detective work.

Gekko, I expect the vast majority of Treo 650 users would agree with you. However, the T650 keyboard drives me nuts - I actually prefer to use G2 most of the time and the keyboard just gets in the way.

Using G2 on a Treo is not easy. Grafitti Anywhere is kind of clunky. So I have copied the 'Writing Area' files from my TE2 onto my Treo. It works quite well (although it stopes working occassionally in Blazer). Also, the Treo form factor is not conducive to writing G2 with the Treo on a desk - the back of the Treo is too rounded and the Treo itself is a little too thick to write comfortably anyway.

I pray for the day that Palm will release a Treo model with a detachable keyboard, the removal of which reveals a hard Graffiti writing area underneath. Well, I can dream, can't I?

http://tinyurl.com/7khus

It'd take a lot of work on the software side to get something like this to work--getting a device to drive two touchscreens with not just different screen resolution, but different screen layouts would be a challenge. But the carriers would fall all over themselves to get these things into your hands since it would finally make all-you-can eat 3G bandwidth something worth paying for.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Hmmm, I don't think so. By that logic you could say to someone thinking about buying a little/slim/light laptop that they might as well buy one with a big screen and another spindle. Fact is, different people have different thresholds for portability and even one person will judge portability relative to what they want to do and where.

My point is that laptops running full-blown PC operating systems don't satisfy the 80/20 rule for a large number of mobile computer users. That is, they are designed to be bigger, more complicated and slower to boot than they need to be to perform the stuff that these users need to do on their mobile computer 80% of the time.

Microsoft knows this and they are fumbling their way toward an answer:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1785645,00.asp

The tablet-as-phone accessory is a better idea from a business standpoint than just shrinking a tablet PC like Gates wants to do. The carriers could literally give these auxiliary tablets away with the purchase of a Treo and make money off the increased use of wireless data plans.

And by the way, the tablet could be a lot smaller and slimmer than I rendered it if you prefer. Look at the Nokia 770 which has almost the same screen resolution as I'm talking about but is only 6 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches. In my opinion, though, that's too tiny to be comfortable as a laptop replacement for the market segment I'm talking about. Fonts will be too small and the pen input too fussy for prolonged use, so it will be of interest mainly to people who would buy a WiFi-enabled PDA.

As you know, that group of people is shrinking. I intentionally made this screen physically larger and tried to make it so it would feel good in your hand.

Anyway, it certainly wouldn't be for everyone, but I don't think the successful devices of the future will be the ones that try to be everything to everyone. I'd use it because I fly 5-6 hrs a week and ride taxis for another 3-4 hours and *hate* trying to use a laptop in those situations. I also would like a full-screen browser on a wireless device that could sit on my nightstand or coffee table where I'd never want a laptop.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.

There are several problems with a micro-laptop running Windows, but price is going to be the big one because I don't think that many people have a really compelling need for a device that's neither a very good laptop noor a good PDA.

What makes an auxiliary tablet for a smartphone marketable is that since it doesn't have a processor, RAM, storage, wireless radios, or OS of its own it's very cheap to build. And since it would drive wireless data usage it would probably be free with the purchase of a locked Treo from a wireless carrier. When you bought a smartphone it would just come with one of these, like the wall wart for charging it. It's hard to argue with free, and I think people would catch on to there being a lot of times when they'd like to use them.

Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.

I'm not sure even a 250 gram XP handheld would sell to more than a handful of geeks at $700. Which means they will probably never sell well. I'm not even sure if I would buy one for that price.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/CobaltBill.jpg

... even M$ has to do what it can for market share!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

I'm not sure it's dual boot and LG hasn't paid my fee yet, but here's what I post just for you. I hear it will be called 600i, quad-band GSM, mini-SD, hvga rez & 56MB built-in mem. Sliding keyboard: Unknown

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/lg600i.jpg

... developing.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Two of his models are expected to be released at the same time that Palm releases a Cobalt PDA

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Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
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The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

If the T7 fulfills EVERY rumored spec Ryan lists in the news item, is built up to par and has decent battery life, would you consider giving it a closer look as a "modern" TH55 equivalent?

If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...

http://www.sprint.com/business/products/phones/ppc6700_allPcsPhones.jsp

David Beers,
I guess most of the reactions to your mockup are mixed, but I could see that being a nice piece for a few people in just your needs set. Plain trips, commutes. I am not sure it could compete with a $350 cash Nokia 770 with a phone contract. I understand that the next 770 will be a complete phone itself. As you note the 770 screen may be too small for real surfing compared to your mockup.

Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop. Never. I suppose this is not a real handheld, but the phone without it is and the phone with it is, but the phone with it is just too big to pocket but not big enough to replace a laptop.

If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...

That's a lot of ifs. If you've ever used a TH55 you'll know how high that PDA set the bar. I don't think Palm has even the slightest hope of making as good a PDA. Ever.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation, the beefier CPU, SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike), hard buttons, and stylus. 128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.

Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to. By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.

Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.

Strangely, no, it won't. In fact it's not even desigend to connect over GPRS; It's purely a Wi-Fi device. But they say that the second version coming out next year will have VOIP.

Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop.

Yeah, I know, and you may be right. There have been quite a few attempts, too. Of course, look at all the failed attempts that were made to develop a handheld computer before Palm came along and got it right. There's always the hope that someone is going to find the right mix of features, form, and price and the meme will take root. That's unlikely to be me, but I like thinking about what it would take to do it right--for me anyway.

Good comments, thanks.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

That's why I have a bunch of them stockpiled...

I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation,

The TH55 can be changed back to the default PalmOS launcher in less than 5 seconds. CLIE Organizer is OPTIONAL. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done with CLIE Organizer with a little more development.

the beefier CPU,

The 123 MHz HHE chip in the TH55 works as well as ANY CPU I've used in a PDA. Multimedia on a TH55 (video, MP3, etc) is actually BETTER than any Palm I've tested. MHz is actually not the most important factor in designing a good PDA CPU.

SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike),

Yes, I hate the way Sony gouges consumers on the price of its memory (twice the price of competing SD). There have also been several fundamental changes in Memory Stick design (speed, form factor, DRM) that have hurt compatibility between devices. And CompactFlash is available for 1/3 the price and in MUCH larger storage capacities than Memory Stick. But Sony's proprietary stategy actually worked with me. Once you invest in a few Memory Sticks you find yourself inclined to buy more devices that use them. I now have several Memory Stick digital cameras, PDAs and a Memory Stick video recorder - all Sony, all because I got hooked on the quality of CLIEs. Had Sony not made the colossal mistake of not including a Memory Stick slot on the PS2, Memory Stick may have already surpassed SD in popularity.

hard buttons,

I'll take a jog dial over the hard buttons any day.

and stylus.

With the UX50 keyboard, the stylus is rarely needed. And a tap with a finger or a pen cap is a LOT faster than using a stylus.

128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake

Yes 128 MB RAM would be ideal. Even 64 MB would be nice. But then again, my UX50 only has 16 MB RAM and I probably have a couple HUNDRED apps on it. PowerRUN and LauncherX make it easy to live with limited memory.

PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.

Given the facts that Palm ALWAYS cuts corners and that their devices are now made in China with shoddy construction, I don't expect to EVER see another good device from Palm. Fortunately, the UX50, TH55 and VZ90 are close to perfect for their individual niches.

Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to.

I don't believe Palm has the will OR the ability to produce a quality device.

By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.

Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.

Try to find a European TH55 if you can. (You can expect to pay over $600 for a new one.) If you have one of them, you probably will not care whether or not Palm gets their act together before they get killed off ("Amiga-ed").

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Are you saying that Palm couldn't manage to change fundamental hardware features in PDAs that will be out in less than a month? Wow. As usual, you provide the trenchant analysis that people flock to Palminfocenter to get. Thanks for sharing.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Ditto that.

Ditto that.

There probably isn't space available for "democrats and liberals" in Hell - it's already filled up with dumba$$ yokel Republican and Conservatives like you, Bubba.

Here is a photo of your "fearless" leader, Adolph Bush in action:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/f/bush_vacation_fishing.jpg

How about you keep dumba$$ political rants like yours out of Palminfocenter in the future.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Here is a li