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Comments on: Rumor: Upcoming Palm Tungsten X and Zire 22 Details

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Palm Tungsten T XA reliable source has provided PalmInfocenter with some new details on Palm's upcoming fall handheld releases. Info on a Tungsten X and Zire 22 has shown up in the internal inventory system of a large electronics retail company. Read on for more details.
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TX sounds good!

palmdoc88 @ 9/14/2005 5:07:51 PM # Q
It all sounds believable. The TX specs seem to be what the T5 should have been. Builtin Wifi, sound recorder, etc
I only hope they improve on the quality of the sync cable connector - it was pretty poor for the T5 and there were many complaints about problems syncing due to poor contact.


T3 & T5 user

RE: TX sounds good!
phoneboy @ 9/14/2005 5:42:04 PM # Q
Good timing! I logged into PIC today to learn exactly when the next T is due out! My Sony UX-50 is dying after two years of HEAVY use. There has been nothing on the market that could live up to replacing the UX-50 for me. It had so many features, and a WOW factor that won't die. I still get compliments about it after all this time. The TX will come close (I'll still miss that keyboard), but built-in wi-fi and bluetooth on a Palm device are a must for me.

Some of the shortcomings of the TX are noteable, but the $299 price point is a good one. I was on the verge of getting a Pocket PC to replace my fading Clie. If I can wait until October for this TX it will help me to avoid abandoning my beloved Palm OS.

With two forms of wireless, synching wirelessley should help to avoid connector problems.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50

RE: TX sounds good!
hkklife @ 9/14/2005 5:58:01 PM # Q
I have my T5 sitting here in front of me as I type this...

Ok, the loss of the internal storage drive is NOT a big deal. Palm has to plan these things waaaay ahead of time. By the time they got, say, a 512mb "drive" device to market, 2gb SD cards will be close to $100. By the time Palm gets a 1 or 2gb flash drive model to market, 4gb SD cards will be ~$150.

Palm's better off letting the SD flash card market act on its own and just make sure that there's a minimum of 64mb of RAM onboard midrange & highend units. I have NO quarrels with their strategy on this T|X.

There's plenty of room on the top panel of the T5 to add a small microphone for voice recording. Even if they cannot shoehorn a dedicated VR button for it, you could reprogram one of the bottom app hard buttons or just activate it via a stylus stroke. No biggie---I can live w/o a dedicated VR or screen rotate button. Just give us the mic & audio capture hardware!

Similarly, the power buton with the green paint mark on it can easily be replaced by a power button with a glowing green LED to indicate charge status.

Garnet 5.4.9 SHOULD, by all counts, be quit a bit more stable and (hopefully) speedier than older Garnet revisions. Frankly, the T5 performs slower than its 416mhz CPU would indicate. I think that with careful software optimizations for NVFS, the performance issue might end up being a negligable point unless you're REALLY doing some heavy-duty fullscreen video playback.

I've yet to have any major problems with the Athena connector on my T5. Now the T5's cradle is another story but I'd imagine they will get around to designing something that lets the T5 & LD sit more securely anyway...

If the build quality is anywhere CLOSE to the LifeDrive (folks, the LD really IS solidly assembled!) then I can live with a plastic body. Just keep that price at $300 MAX and ENSURE there are no major showstopping bugs in the shipping product and Palm'll have a short-term winner on their hands.

Count me in as an upgrader...it might end up being my last Palm device but I will give this one a shot.

RE: TX sounds good!
palmdoc88 @ 9/14/2005 6:05:22 PM # Q
Yes I know syncing wirelessly is possible. But really, Palm shouldn't stinge on the CRADLE, and come out with a crappy defective cable connector. The majority of Palm users will use the wired option so I hope they improve on the QC in this area.


T3 & T5 user

RE: TX sounds good!
phoneboy @ 9/14/2005 6:08:01 PM # Q
Agreed. I hope they actually include a cradle. It's a good price, if they include a cradle.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: TX sounds good!
Admin @ 9/14/2005 6:23:07 PM # Q
The LifeDrive didn't even include a cradle so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
RE: TX sounds good!
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:25:06 PM # Q
I bought my T5 cradle. I am confidant it will work with the TX.

RE: TX sounds good!
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:26:48 PM # Q
None of the newer Tungstens, Zires, Treos, or LD come bundled with a cradle. It seems the days when palm bundled cradles are over I guess... :( In fact what was the last handheld that did come with a cradle? The T3 perhaps?

--------------------
Gaurav
RE: TX sounds good!
Puppy @ 9/14/2005 6:32:14 PM # Q
That's a fantastic set of features and price-if it's true. Voice recording, 480x320 screen, and wi-fi? I wouldn't be surprised if it's missing voice recording and costs closer to $400.

The real issue is "have they fixed the OS"? If it's the same mess the Lifedrive is, then who cares what price it sells at.

I hope this means the LD will get updated to 5.4.9 soon. If they don't fix it, I'm never buying another Palm again.

RE: TX sounds good!
Wolfgard @ 9/15/2005 5:58:36 AM # Q
Finally! A potential replacement for my Clie TH55! If it's as good as it sounds with long battery life and no screen buzz, Palm, you've won back an ex-customer.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72 -> TH55 & Handera 330
RE: TX sounds good!
userwaldo @ 9/15/2005 12:44:06 PM # Q
by the way, has anyone figured out why they need a special sync connector? the mini-usb worked fine of the Tungsten E, and with USB 2.0 it's plenty fast enough for any data transfer. The only thing I can think of would be the lose of revenue due to people purchasing proprietary cables.

Pen and Paper -> Palm Personal -> Palm Personal -> Palm III -> Palm -IIIx -> M120 -> Handera 330 -> M120 -> Zire71 -> ?
RE: TX sounds good!
twizza @ 9/15/2005 12:51:24 PM # Q
The connector is not just able to carry data but audio and video. I am sure that regular USB could do that, but not mini-usb.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: TX sounds good!
hkklife @ 9/15/2005 3:20:45 PM # Q
For the record, does anyone have any idea when we are going to see a cable or a cradle that does VIDEO-out from the Athena connector? It seems like it would've been a natural for the LifeDrive.

Also, when is that USB on the go box coming out (if ever)? You know, the thing that was shown on PDAMExico's site that permits any digi cam that is recognized as a mass storage device to pug straight into the LifeDrive and dump picture onto the Microdrive via Camera Companion?



RE: TX sounds good!
sam_in_silver @ 9/17/2005 9:53:56 PM # Q
Now, if only they would add an induction charger so that there was no connector, like my electric tooth brush, then the thing would be 100% connector free. I have a LifeDrive and that connector just isn't going to last. I use to WIFI to hotsynch, which works about 80% of the time.

Lets shoot for 100% WIFI hotsynch and an induction charger.

Simon

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No more NAND storage for internal volume?!

gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 5:20:53 PM # Q
>>>>>128MB of non-volitile memory...

So does this mean there will only be 128MB of NVFS without any internal volume? That would be a change from the T5 ram setup. I was hoping that Palm might use a 512 or 1GB Nand chip and use 128MB as ram and the rest as internal volume perhaps? With so many Nand based mp3 players out there now like the iPod Nano etc, I would have hoped Palm would have increased the storage capacity on these devices by now...

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
Sam H @ 9/14/2005 5:48:10 PM # Q
So does this mean there will only be 128MB of NVFS without any internal volume?

No way of knowing at this stage how the NVRAM will be partitioned between the virtual db cache and the internal volume. Or how much SDRAM will be on board for that matter. I'm sure there'll be plenty of confusion though. :-)

RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:02:16 PM # Q
The internal drive is nice but I would be pefectly OK with having to use my SD slot for memory.

RE: No more NAND storage for internal volume?!
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:20:36 PM # Q
Yeah, but Drive mode was a pretty cool feature! I would love to see a Tx with 2GB Nand chip with drive mode feature. That would be very appealing device imo...

--------------------
Gaurav
Reply to this comment

Hmmm

sremick @ 9/14/2005 5:11:10 PM # Q
Hmm... my T3, released TWO YEARS AGO, has a METAL case instead of cheap, fragile plastic... a VIBRATING alarm (like pagers, cellphones, and every other electronic gadget that notifies you of important things), and +88 more MHz.

Sure this thing has 128MB of RAM... but I have over 1GB in my T3. Yeah this comes with Wifi... but I have a Wifi SDIO card.

And I bet there's no way to run G1 on it even though this is the faster and preferred input method for a huge chunk of the established Palm community. I don't care if G2 is the default... just give us a way to choose G1.

Would it be nice to have the extra on-board RAM and the integrated Wifi? Sure. But it's not worth what you'd have to give up. 3 steps forward, but 10 steps back.

Please, Palm: give us a device to be proud of that meets the needs of the power users. Our T3s aren't going to run forever...



http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Hmmm
Khris @ 9/14/2005 5:38:36 PM # Q
I really don't understand why 90% of Palm users out there, like to bitch, whine, moan, complain, and do nothing more!

If you're really that unhappy with Palm and the devices they put out, look for another solution. Obviously by sticking with Palm, you're going to be continually disappointed.


RE: Hmmm
sremick @ 9/14/2005 5:41:53 PM # Q
Do nothing more, eh? I've been active here on PIC for several years. I can assure you, I've done quite a bit more.

This is also not my first Palm, but my third, having started with a Vx and then an M505 before the T3. Likewise, many friends and family have Palms now, because of me.

It would seem in your world, anyone who is on-board as a user of a certain company's technology has to be a pure fanboy who blindly thinks everything they do is "great" and "perfect" eh? Sorry, Microsoft has enough of them. I'm not like that. I am a Palm fan, but they are not perfect and they are making a lot of mistakes lately. However, unlike you, my attitude is to not be a quitter and jump ship... I detest the alternatives out there a lot more than I am frustrated with the direction Palm is heading these days.

If a good friend of mine gets a drug problem, I don't abandon them and find a new friend. I confront them about their problem in the hopes they can see the light, turn things around, and things can go back to being positive between us. Likewise, this is how I am treating Palm. Instead of silently ditching them and leaving them oblivious of why they're losing customers, I'm sticking around but being vocal.

And I do believe there's nothing in the PIC rules that say that we have to praise every single product Palm produces and worship the scrap plastic they walk on.

The fact is, Palm has abandoned a certain market they used to provide product for. Those of us in that market would like something to upgrade to. It's been a few years now. It's a fact that 2 years ago, the top of the line Palm exceeded the TX in many indisputable ways. In TWO YEARS, we should see more clear-cut evolutionary PROGRESS... not a REDUCTION in MHz, a REDUCTION in features, and LOWER QUALITY case materials.

If YOU think my specific facts and points are invalid and would like to elaborate on why you feel so, that's one thing. However, if you're just going to throw blanket criticism about how I'm just a complainer and should go away, than you're no better than the supposed complainer you accuse me of being.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Hmmm
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 5:55:52 PM # Q
>>>>Sure this thing has 128MB of RAM... but I have over 1GB in my T3.

HUH? So what? That's expansion card vs Ram (NVFS whatever). Completely different. Plus if the Tx has FAT32, you'll be able to use >>2GB SD card anyway, not to mention any possible Nand storage...

>>>>And I bet there's no way to run G1 on it....

For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH...

>>>>Would it be nice to have the extra on-board RAM and the integrated Wifi? Sure. But it's not worth what you'd have to give up. 3 steps forward, but 10 steps back.

*sigh* what a bunch of BS. Wifi, more ram, BT 1.2 (with A2DP and HID support for things like BT headphones), NVFS and it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Hmmm
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:05:15 PM # Q
Hi sremick,

The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld. I am very happy Palm has decided to stick with a winning design and build on it.

- 312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked.

I doubt (because of the low price) there is a camera and a mic, but you never know. The T3 design was good but the slider was bad.

RE: Hmmm
hkklife @ 9/14/2005 6:06:19 PM # Q
Sigh....Didn't someone post a while back that Palm had hinted at offering something like a G1/G2 hybrid----essentially, a Graffiti 3 that combined the best of both worlds. The poster said that Palm couldn't comment in any detail due to Xerox's ongoing appeals process.

Sounds to me like they might include some sort of baseline TealScript functionality into the control panel where the user can select certain strokes as multi or single strokes.

Barring that, someone can HOPEFULLY hack the T|T G1 libraries one final time to get G1 on this (and future FrankenGarnet) devices.

For the record, and gfunk and I discussed this the other day, 2gb SD cards (generics) are $120ish online nowadays. That's certain to hit $100 by Christmas.



RE: Hmmm
hkklife @ 9/14/2005 6:13:14 PM # Q
Vampire;

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there on that one. The m500 series was by FAR the paradigm of the classic PDA. Small, light, metal body, (fairly) durable and it felt GREAT in the hand. Add to that the side rails for attaching a case and you have a winning design. The T|E and its variants have aped the classic V and m500 design but with only minimal success--I feel the bottom flare is crucial, as is a metal body (or at least a metal bezel w/ plastic backplate).

2nd place goes to the sadly short-lived Visor Edge. All it needed was 2x the RAM, a color screen and an SD slot. It was the RAZR of its time and no one even noticed...

RE: Hmmm
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:34:03 PM # Q
I like my T5's casing materials. It feels very strong and looks professional. I don't see how metal will improve this.

Notice how the T5 casing is so strong, it does not even bend a bit when applying pressure on the dpad.

That pressure can be very high when playing an intense game of MicroQuad. LOL

I can't wait for this TX. :)

RE: Hmmm
Gekko @ 9/14/2005 6:37:39 PM # Q

Vampire - drop it on some concrete and let us know how the plastic performs.

RE: Hmmm
sremick @ 9/14/2005 7:36:30 PM # Q
gfunkmagic: "HUH? So what? That's expansion card vs Ram (NVFS whatever). Completely different."

Yep. I can store ANY type of file on the expansion card, vs only PRCs and PDBs on the internal memory.

"For for gawd sakes!! Give it a rest all you G1 fanboys! ARHH..."

How exactly does the fact that some people work faster in G1 (what Palm originally raised us on) than G2 affect YOU? How exactly would making an option in preferences so that the user could switch to G1 ruin the life of a G2 "fanboy"? Please explain. Fact is, lots of us work MUCH faster in G1 than G2. If you can't accept or understand that, that's your problem. I'm content to accept YOU work faster with G2. But don't force your G2 on the rest of us who have learned something faster and would like to continue with it. We're not trying to force G1 upon YOU, only have it be an OPTION for US, thanks.

"it's still not worth is cuz you miss your silly G1 and metal case?!!"

It's hard to respect having an intellectual talk with someone who resorts to stuff like that. But I'll feed the troll tonight... if you can't value the benefits of a metal case, obviously you haven't owned enough of them and have given-in to the brainwashing of manufacturers that plastic is "good enough". Hint: my CELL PHONE has a REAL metal case too, and it's no accident.

If you can't understand why anyone on the planet could possibly find anything better than G2 for input and that G2 is god's gift to all PDAs, then you're just being plain childish. FACT: G1 is faster for a lot of people. FACT: G1 was the default Palm input method for FAR more years than G2. FACT: Palm did NOT switch to G2 because it was FASTER than G1. FACT: No one is asking you to give up G2, so chill.

And you totally avoided that the T3, while 2 years older, is 28% FASTER than the TX. And that a vibrating alarm is CRITICAL not only for the corporate customer but for many other people who simply don't wish to always be disturbing those around us with our electronic gadgets. Next time you hear someone's cell phone obnoxiously ring in the movie theater I want you to consider how you disregarded the importance of a vibrating alert.

VampireLestat: "The T5 design/ergonomics are the best ever seen in a handheld."

I agree there. I think the form-factor and overall physical design (aside from the plastic case) of the T5/TX is nice. They just need to take the T3 features as a BARE MINIMUM and choose a bunch to improve upon (given 2 years of R&D evolution). Without backing off any of the features present in the T3, because there's no need, no reason, and no excuse for it.

Although I have to agree with hkklife that I think the V form-factor was even better (having owned a Vx for a long while).

"312 mhz is usually plenty and good for battery life, else it can be overclocked."

I don't know about you, but I've bogged down my 400MHz T3 on occasion. Maybe if we were still within a few months of the release of the T3 it'd be appropriate to release another supposed "top of the line" PDA that was SLOWER. But not after a full year... and certainly not after TWO. CPU R&D has just progress FAR too much to make that valid. If we extended that logic we'd all be forced to be content with 1GHz systems on our desktops, and next year they'd try to sell us on a brand-new 800MHz system. Heh



http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Hmmm
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 8:53:10 PM # Q
>>>>>How exactly does the fact that some people work faster in G1 (what Palm originally raised us on) than G2 affect YOU?

Ble....get over dude. G1 is dead and so is Elvis. Stop harping on useless nonsense. It's not coming back. REPEAT. IT IS NOT COMING BACK. Now go get a cookie or something... *YIKES*

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Hmmm
Hal2000 @ 9/14/2005 9:08:34 PM # Q
drop it on some concrete and let us know how the plastic performs.
Love that line.

Zodiac2/T616/WiFi'd
RE: Hmmm
AdamaDBrown @ 9/15/2005 12:53:50 AM # Q
On the processor issue, the newer PXA270s are a little more efficient than the older 255s used in the T3. Therefore, a 316 MHz PXA270 would be the rough equivalent of a 400 MHz PXA255.

Gekko, in fairness, nothing performs perfectly when dropped on a hard stone surface. I once accidently bobbled my m505 and dropped it on a slate surface, resulting in small dents and chips on the bezel. I've also seen a plastic-cased Dell Axim (one of the old X3s) that met a concrete parking lot without protection. No dents, but lots of chips in the plastic.

I can certainly understand the desire for a metal case, and I even agree that a high-end device really should have one, but even metal isn't indestructible.

RE: Hmmm
Bakedon21 @ 9/15/2005 2:35:05 AM # Q
I prefer a plastic case because the metal is so soft. My T3 has so many dents as it doesnt bounce back. At least with the plastic, you have some resiliency to small bumps instead of living with a reminder of how often its been dropped (even small drops onto gravel). And inch for inch, plastic is lighter. I agree it does feel as nice, if you can even tell, but I dont care as much as I used to.

RE: Hmmm
LiveFaith @ 9/15/2005 12:19:00 PM # Q
Metal v Plastic:
Allegedly, metal constricts wireless performance more than plastic. I love the aluminum over plastic skin on my T3, but when she has hit the concrete that pretty case now has a perfect impression of the concrete finishers art. I perfer metal, but it's not a deal killer. I actually loved using an m100 for a while, light and super durable with a good thin integrated flip cover. Just paralyzed with that tiny screen and low mem.

Best Form:
V & m5xx are both tough as nails, attractive and great with the dual rails. But, one thing that I am glad is left behind is the width. They are just too wide to be comfortable in a normal sized hand IMO. The T3 has the same hourglass shape, but handles much much better for me. Maybe for NBA players it is not a problem, but it was for me.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Hmmm
oz-nom @ 9/15/2005 9:22:26 PM # Q
"drop it on some concrete and let us know how the plastic performs."

I did. Slight scratch on top right corner. Have to look REAL close to tell it's not metal. I wouldn't recommend dropping your T5, but mine came through alright.

I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.

Metal cases are better than plastic cases.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/15/2005 10:29:50 PM # Q
"drop it on some concrete and let us know how the plastic performs."

I did. Slight scratch on top right corner. Have to look REAL close to tell it's not metal. I wouldn't recommend dropping your T5, but mine came through alright.

I just don't understand the whole metal/plastic debate.

It all depends on construction quality. Old Palms/TRGs had well-constucted plastic cases that were durable with their integrated flip lids. But as good as these are, they can't hold a candle to high quality METAL cases like the magnesium alloy case in the CLIE UX50. I've dropped my UX50 onto floors, concrete and pavement probably 20 times in the past 2 years (don't drink and Palm, Kiddies!) and have carried it around in pockets + bags the whole time as well. The case still looks NEW other than a 2 mm gouge sustained after a 10 foot drop onto some rocks on a local trail. At first each time I would pick it up gingerly after a fall, open it up and be SHOCKED to find everything working perfectly. NOW when I drop it I EXPECT everything will be fine. Magnesium cases make you c0cky as he11... ;-O

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Hmmm
hkklife @ 9/16/2005 9:32:40 AM # Q
Any of the long-time Palm users remember the plastic around the stylus silo cracking/coming loose problem?

I personally had that problem on my Pilot 1000, Palm Pilot Pro, and a IIIc. My IIIe lost the bottom half of the screen's digitizer instead of having cracking plastic. I had to wrap tape around my stylus to keep it securely in the silo due to the wiggling strip of cracked plastic.

So compared to THOSE days, the quality of plastics on low-end PDAs has improved somewhat. That said, I still prefer metal cases, plain & simple. There was just no going back after going to a Palm V from the III series. The m500 did a nice job--metal front bezel with plastic back panel to save $ and weight. The LifeDrive seems to have a similar construction. If Palm keeps on sticking harddrives into their units, aluminum will become important for heat dissipation.

Question for the M$ faithful: Has there ever been a metal-clad WinCE/PPC/WinMob handheld?

RE: Hmmm
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2005 10:34:15 AM # Q
I'm not M$ faithful ... more like and M$ slave, but ...

I think the 41xx & 19xx iPaqs had that beautiful form factor in at least the front portion in aluminum. Wasn't Toshiba's thin model aluminum. More recently, the new Toshiba (blue) is too I think. Also, HPs massive 4700 is magnesium I believe, not to mention the Pocket Loox which looks it, but I;ve never handled. Oh yeh, those later Jornadas with the built in flip lid were aluminum too, but what a stupid waste of frontal area on that form factor.

... corrections welcome.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Hmmm
hkklife @ 9/16/2005 11:14:16 AM # Q
Yeah, I knew about the HP in magnesium but I really couldn't recall any aluminum-clad iPaqs or Jornadas..and all of the Asian/small PPC licensees have been plastic as far as I could recall. Thanks for the input in those iPaqs that did come in aluminum.

Palm COULD make that (metal casings) a hallmark of the Tungsten & LifeDrive lines going forward. Since the WinMob units keeep getting chunkier and chunkier, a metal-bodied, dual wireless 320*480 modernized PalmV could still work wonder for the public perception of Palm.

Reply to this comment

Fantastic - if this was 2001

Colonel Panic @ 9/14/2005 5:26:10 PM # Q
Perfect specs - four years late.
Now, it's just about ok. But nothing special. How about doing something truly impressive, like a gig or two of ram, or a decent camera ?

Nonsense... have you seen rumored specs of iPAQ rx1950?
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:02:17 PM # Q
According to rumors the iPAQ rx1950 will have a 300 MHz Samsung processor, 32 MB of RAM, and 64 MB of ROM, 36 MB ROM for storage, SDIO, QVGA screen, WiFi and will supposedely sell for $300 bucks?!!

For that same price, the Tx sound alot better imo with dual wireless, more ram and higher rez screen...


--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
sr4 @ 9/14/2005 6:06:49 PM # Q
The difference is that thats the bottom of the line PPC, vs the tungsten x, with similar specs, being the top of the line Palm PDA.

Surur

RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:10:13 PM # Q
>>>>The difference is that thats the bottom of the line PPC, vs the tungsten x, with similar specs, being the top of the line Palm PDA.

What are you talking about? At $300 price point, this is a midrange pda for palm. The LD is obviously the high end. Besides, I can't personally justify >>$300 bucks for a pda these days anyway. Those days are loooong gone imo and the market for high end pricey handhelds is very miniscule...

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
Timothy Rapson @ 9/14/2005 8:27:03 PM # Q
If this model has all that, the camera, mic, HVGA and all for $300 I predict a huge success for it. I can replace the TE2, Zire 72, and T5 all with one model and offer better value than any competitor.
I have two big concerns.
1. Will it work? Palm's lastest efforts have been bad. The LifeDrive and T5 simply had problems.
2. Will it have the battery life of the TE2 or near that? That would be stellar.

I have been hearing that Palm was not redoing their Zire 72 and looking a lot at an Axim X50v or its replacement. I have been hoping that Dell would offer a sub-$400 VGA model with a camera. If this model has all the above post projects, I might wait until FITALY supports it and it has a few months without major problems and some discount of the list price. I am not in a hurry. I would still like a multi-tasking, real file supporting, graphics working OS, but, to my great surprise I might go for yet another Palm even without that if this model pans out well.

RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
AdamaDBrown @ 9/15/2005 1:03:14 AM # Q
It should be noted, in the interest of accuracy, that that price for the rx1950 is based entirely on rumor. It's not official.

Still, HP has been radically overpricing and under-specing some of their recent models (See the rz1715, for instance) so I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they wanted $300 for that. In this market, they shouldn't be charging more than $200 for those specs. Hell, the Axim X30 used to run $260 for 624 MHz, 64 MB/64 MB, WiFi, and Bluetooth. You really shouldn't look at HP for cutting-edge hardware: they prefer to sell well back from the sharp part, relying on their name brand and retail presence to move units.

Timothy, Dell isn't going to do anything with a camera. They prefer to stay away from the cameras, because they want to make a device that can be used in workplaces that ban cameras. Besides which, they see it as something of an unneccessary feature that doesn't really add to the usefulness of the device. If you really want an Axim with a camera, you can always get a Veo 130S SDIO camera card. It's 1.3 MP, and from what I've seen actually takes very good quality shots.

RE: Fantastic - if this was 2001
InsGuy @ 9/15/2005 4:23:19 PM # Q
Adama,

I agree. HP relies A LOT on their brand name to make up for selling less than stellar products. I changed over to the X30h when the T5 came out, and upgraded to the X50v when the LD came out. I'm way past the learning curve on PPC, and can use it well. My wife on the other hand, never really developed a liking of PPC, and still hangs on to her Z2. At first, when I read the title of this thread, I thought, GREAT, Palm is coming out with an awesome new PDA. My personal favorite Palm of ALL TIME was my m515, and this looked a lot like that one. But, as many have pointed out, there are a lot of things lacking on this pda in comparison with specs from competing pdas, and I don't think I'll be swithing back anytime soon. My wife, on the other hand, will probably LOVE the Tx, so we'll see.



All good things...

Reply to this comment

digg this story on digg.com to help get the news out!

my-cool @ 9/14/2005 5:47:46 PM # Q
hey lets all go digg this story on digg.com.

http://digg.com/hardware/Palm_to_introduce_Tungsten_X_and_Zire_22_on_October_11th.

This tell more people about this and promote palminfocenter.com. i bet that if we got it enough diggs someone would post a real picture of the device? HMMM? ;)


RE: digg this story on digg.com to help get the news out!
Foo Fighter @ 9/15/2005 12:15:49 AM # Q
Stop spamming for Digg. You probably work for them.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
Reply to this comment

Why no GPS?

sr4 @ 9/14/2005 5:47:43 PM # Q

GPS is hot right now. As other people have said, these units only match the specifications of PPC's from two years ago. These days built-in GPS is a major feature, and attract a whole different class of buyer. Palm is not leading, its not even keeping up. They need to run to keep standing still.

Surur

RE: Why no GPS?
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:05:14 PM # Q
2 years ago? Tell hp then about their rx1950:

http://www.brighthand.com/article/FCC_Approves_iPAQ_rx1950?site=PPC


--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Why no GPS?
sr4 @ 9/14/2005 6:08:19 PM # Q
The difference is that thats the bottom of the line PPC, vs the tungsten x, with similar specs, being the top of the line Palm PDA.

Dont forget, the whole future of POS depends on the ONE OEM, Palm, to produce the whole line, whereas there are tens of models of PPC's serving all niches being released all the time.

Surur



RE: Why no GPS?
Timothy Rapson @ 9/14/2005 8:36:26 PM # Q
Surer, this model competes well against Any of the current or projected Axims, and Ipaqs up to the $500 list price models. I know that it is missing the VGA, but it includes the camera that almost none of the PPCs do.
I know that 300MZ is not the 624MZ you can get in that X50v, but it doesn't need it. If this model gets the kind of battery life that flash memory brought to the TE2, it will put all those MZ offered by the competition to shame.
I would still love to have TextMaker, PocketArtist and a full featured browser, but those are not part of the actual PDA. Comparing hardware to hardware, the only thing this TX lacks to compete at the high end is the price. Since when is having a $450 pricetag just to have one considered coving the market. Other than the processor, what is this missing?

RE: Why no GPS?
sr4 @ 9/15/2005 2:23:32 AM # Q
Exactly. It matches it. Where's the feature that will put it ahead. Where's the GPS?

Surur

RE: Why no GPS?
PenguinPowered @ 9/15/2005 3:04:59 AM # Q
I have no idea what informs Palm's designs, but as a long time GPS user, I can think of three reasons why I wouldn't particularly want one as part of a PDA:

1) I'd use the PDA a lot more often than I'd use the GPS in it, and so would regret the weight.

2) GPSes embedded into other devices are whimpier than pure GPS devices. I'd rather have a good PDA and a good GPS than both.

3) GPS eats batteries.

I think the 'trendy' GPSes are the ones that go in cellphones as a requirement of E911. They are, for the most part, not particularly good GPSes.


Marty Fouts
Lead Linux Lizard
PalmSource Core Technology Department

RE: Why no GPS?
sr4 @ 9/15/2005 3:18:54 AM # Q
Marty, look to Europe. The only reason disconnected PDA's (PPC's over here usually) are doing well is due to GPS.

You have your personal preferences, but this is the current fashion, and Palm is not competing currently in this game.

Surur

RE: Why no GPS?
Beavis @ 9/15/2005 7:42:58 AM # Q
Haven't any of you people heard of a BLUETOOTH GPS? You now have both Bluetooth and WifI, so put the Bluetooth to good use and get a Bluetooth GPS and your favorite GPS Software.

RE: Why no GPS?
sr4 @ 9/15/2005 7:59:10 AM # Q
Why is no one understanding this?

1) Palm sells 80+% of POS handhelds, and probably even more now.
2) If they want POS to serve all the handheld niches Palm will have to be the one to do it.
3) They are neglecting an important are which has been proven to sell add significantly to the saleability of PDA's

Of course there are other ways to get GPS, some even better, such as bluetooth GPS (thats what I have) but many PPC producers have found selling devices with built-in GPS (which is less intimidating to newbies) have given them a huge leg-up in sales.

GPS is the new WIFI. Your arguments sound the same as the arguments which said built-in WIFI is unnecessary.

If not the tungsten X, then they should sell at least ONE device with GPS built-in. To sell NONE is slow suicide.

(Yes, I know about Garmin)

Surur

RE: Why no GPS?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/15/2005 9:36:23 AM # Q
GPS units cost about...what?...$65 now. They do more than GPS, of course.

Who needs a PDA?

RE: Why no GPS?
Timothy Rapson @ 9/15/2005 3:41:15 PM # Q
I could see a GPS model like they have camera models. As in another thread, that is what Palm did with lisencing the OS to other manufacturers. Sony did multimedia, Sony did camera, Symbol did business entry, Garman did GPS. Now, PalmOne copies each that has been successful to make money off the poor folk who did the work integrating these features. I don't know if there is enough interest to make money off a whole new GPS model, but what I really don't understand is why they have to make whole different models, new case, new motherboard, new everything... to add GPS, camera, more speed, different memory. I don't understand it at all. Dell offers three models of the X50 and offered three models of the X30. Why can't Palm take this one TX and offer one model with a camera, one with a phone, and one with Surer's GPS?

RE: Why no GPS?
AdamaDBrown @ 9/16/2005 1:24:44 AM # Q
I'd take built-in GPS if it didn't mean massive compromises to the rest of the device. With the current breed of GPS handhelds like the Garmin M5, it seems like you give up everything else in order to get GPS. Integrating GPS would be worth it to me if I didn't have to give up the rest of my advanced features like WiFi, VGA, whatever. As it stands, I use a BT GPS when I need to--If I had GPS all the time without carrying a seperate piece, I'd probably use it more often.

RE: Why no GPS?
cervezas @ 9/17/2005 5:26:40 PM # Q
I have to disagree with Marty about the relative "wimpiness" of GPS units that are built-in versus free-standing in one particular (and relevant) situation: inside a smartphone.

My company has done some custom GIS software projects recently for very low-end Java-enabled phones with built-in GPS and I was astounded at how well the GPS receivers in these sub-$100 devices worked. They acquired the satellites much faster and with the same accuracy as my Garmin eTrex receiver. The only way I can account for this is that they use a technology called AGPS (A for "assisted") which somehow supplements the standard GPS with triangulation from the nearest cell towers.

I'm amazed that Nextel is the only company to date that has thought providing an open API to the GPS on the phone was a good idea. It's given Nextel a big edge over the competition (despite their limited network) when it comes to a lot of corporate deployments. Wonder if we'll see Sprint following suit now that their acquisition of Nextel is complete.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Why no GPS? - GPS now standard on Loox PPC's
sr4 @ 9/22/2005 11:22:18 AM # Q
http://engadget.com/entry/1234000133059930/

As I've said, the Palm PDA line-up can not be called cutting edge if it does not even have a GPS model. Fujitsu Siemens Corp has once again justified their Sony like position of building the best high-end PPC's by adding greater value to their PDA line-up with GPS.

Their top-of-the-range model will apparently have 128Mb RAM, 256MB Flash ROM, Wifi G, Bluetooth, GPS and a VGA screen. Its not going to cost $300, but then they have added the features to justify their $600 price.

They say PDA's are dead, but if everyone just continue to churn out the same reheated model then they are sure to die. Its ambitious companies like FSC who push the envelope which keep PDA's alive.

What will be Palm's response?

Surur

Reply to this comment

Camera?

VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 5:53:23 PM # Q
I somehow doubt they were able to squeeze a camera in. The T5/TX is too thin for that.

RE: Camera?
phoneboy @ 9/14/2005 6:06:04 PM # Q
Why not? There have been thinner and smaller devices with a camera.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50
RE: Camera?
neuron @ 9/14/2005 6:10:34 PM # Q
Two years ago, viewsonic v36 alread has a camera.

RE: Camera?
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:17:23 PM # Q
I hope there is a cam. But wouldnt that contradict what some people were saying about Palm purposely avoiding a cam on PDAs because companies often forbid cam in the workplace?

RE: Camera?
I.M Anonymous @ 9/14/2005 9:51:21 PM # Q
Heck, if the RAZR can have a camera, this thing surely can.

RE: Camera?
DonPaqui @ 9/15/2005 12:30:15 AM # Q
The TH55 has a camera....

Reply to this comment

PDAs are DEAD anyway

Gekko @ 9/14/2005 6:09:53 PM # Q

WIFI/Bluetooth connected or not - PDAs are DEAD. Why? Because people are starting to figure out that there's no reason to buy/manage/charge/carry/sync/fight/fumble with 2+ devices when ONE Smartphone can do it all.



RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:18:54 PM # Q
Have you ever seen a movie on a 320x320 screen vs a 320x480 screen?
The difference is staggering. You have like more than 2X the movie frame real estate.

I like my 320x480 screen, it gives me room to see things properly (movies, Excel, Word, ebooks, games).

With the rumoured specs, I am buying a TX.



RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:19:21 PM # Q
Welcome to the world of the converted gekko! ;)

--------------------
Gaurav
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
neuron @ 9/14/2005 6:21:33 PM # Q
There are too much discussion about the name "PDA" and "smartphone". I prefer that smartphone is one kind of PDA.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko @ 9/14/2005 6:23:01 PM # Q

Vampire - I watch my movies on TVs and movie screens - not 3" PDA screens.

320x320 accomplishes everything you need in order to get real work done.

If you want to play, get a Game Boy or PSP.



RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:28:59 PM # Q
You are wrong Gekko. Even IF you don't watch movies on your Palm, the 320x480 real estate is dramatically better for Office suites, ebook reading, and just plain enjoyability of all of your Palm OS programs.

You are trying to argue that a 12" TV is better than a 20" TV...

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko @ 9/14/2005 6:32:28 PM # Q

Vampire - but having my data with me 24/7 without looking like a nerd lugging around multiple devices on a batman belt is more important to me than a little extra screen real estate.



RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
phoneboy @ 9/14/2005 6:40:09 PM # Q
I like the Batman belt remark. It's funny because it's true.

Actually, I think PDA phones are great, but I don't want one. I prefer two devices that are each great at what they do. I have a PDA with a large screen and many capabilites tucked away in one pocket, and the RAZR that it connects through tucked discreetly in the other. They are best friends. On Friday night, I take the phone and leave the PDA home. I think using a bulky PDA phone looks just as dorky as having two devices on your Batman belt.

Sharp 16KB Organizer, US Robotics Palm Pilot 1000, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm M505, Sony Clie NR-70, Palm Tungsten 3, Compaq iPaq 3955 (for kicks), Sony Clie UX-50

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:46:30 PM # Q
I understand Gekko's point about cell phone integration. The Treo 650 is perfect for him.

Regardless, I want a 320x480 screen. If my Tungsten has BT, WiFi, WiMax and a cell phone transmitted all built into the back and barely makes it thicker, I am all for it. :)

But as a consumer, I want that 320x480 screen.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
sremick @ 9/14/2005 8:15:20 PM # Q
I can watch movies on my computer too but computers didn't kill home theaters.

PDAs are different than cell phones. The features and requirements are different enough and conflict enough that cellphones won't replace PDAs any more than spoons replaced forks. PDAs need to be large enough to be useful for the wide range of applications people run on them. Cell phones need to be small enough to comfortably hold to the face. I loan out my cell phone, I'd never loan out my PDA (there's FAR too much more critical info and apps on my PDA). If I'm going on certain trips, I won't even risk bringing my PDA... but I'll still bring my cell phone for safety. Cell phones work best with physical keys, while most people find they can make due with a full touch-screen of a PDA. The list goes on and on...

Just because two electonic gadgets share SOME common features doesn't mean they practically CAN and SHOULD be converged. Do I think the Treo shouldn't exist? Of course it should, if there's a market. But what I don't believe is that "PDAs are DEAD". That's just an absurd statement on the calibre of some zombie marketing droid trying to spin customer perception in whatever direction will pocket his company the most cash.

I could converge a moped and a snowblower too, I mean, they both have an engine, wheels, a seat, need to be driven around... and wouldn't people like to only have 1 thing instead of 2? Heh

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Timothy Rapson @ 9/14/2005 8:48:18 PM # Q
RE "320x320 accomplishes everything you need in order to get real work done."

One of the all time stupidest comments ever posted. I am so sick of that SSS SLOP I can't stand it. I went from a Sony NR70V to these two Palm Zire 70s and have regretted that stupid SSS every day. I try to use the PDA in the dark, but can't because the entry area is not lit up. I try to see any reasonable amount of text or view a nice picture and all I get is eye strain and a tiny window into a small part of what I have been used to seeing.

Decide for yourself all you want, but leave the rest of us to make our own choices about "everything *WE PERSONALLY* need in order to get real work done."

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Hal2000 @ 9/14/2005 9:04:18 PM # Q
No way can you go back to a SSS.

Zodiac2/T616/WiFi'd
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 9:15:19 PM # Q
Well I am glad I am not alone in preferring a handheld with 320x480!

"converged moped and snowblower..." hahahahaha good one :D

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Sjrixon @ 9/15/2005 4:29:47 AM # Q
I have a phone and a PDA. I like two and will stick with 2. I can read my e-mail on my phone, which is great! When I need more power I turn to my T3, but I don't have to carry it at the weekend.

I could have an Orange SPV M2000 from work. But I like having a phone and a PDA. Different people have solutions that work for them.

I just wish my T3 had Wi-Fi. The Wi-Fi card is just a pain. Mine just died!

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
LiveFaith @ 9/15/2005 12:35:46 PM # Q
Vampire,

Two Palm OS smartfones will have 320x480 this fall. Take your pick and everyone's happy:

Treo 800g (GPS included)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg

Samsung i733 (Cingular)
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/samsungi733.JPG

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
adamsmark @ 9/15/2005 12:56:00 PM # Q
Having upgraded from a T3 to a Treo 650, I might agree with you, except the Treo is more than a smartphone, it is a PDA. I only wish it had a bigger screen, so, yes, I am tempted by this latest (possible) offering.

Anti-Thumboard
Gekko @ 9/15/2005 12:58:25 PM # Q

I used to be Anti-Thumboard, Pro-Graffiti but after using the Treo 650 for a few weeks, I realize how efficient and easy/intuitive/ergonomic a good thumboard is. I would rather have 320x320 with thumboard than 480x320 without.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
twizza @ 9/15/2005 1:38:50 PM # Q
There was a image on Treonauts of a Treo with a hvga screen and sliging keyboard. That would be perfect for me as I want my T5, just with the keyboard and connectivity of my Treo 600.

And for the last time, nonwireless PDAs are dead. Connected PDAs are all that you will want from this point out, whether BT, BT/wifi, bt/wifi/gps, or cellualar that are your options. SO suck it up and get connected (one device or two) and join the fray.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
LiveFaith @ 9/15/2005 2:00:07 PM # Q
Twizza,

The i733 is all you'll need. I heard that Cobalt has a 10% increase in clipboard limit. I hope you can confirm that. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Scott R @ 9/15/2005 2:14:47 PM # Q
You can have your cake and eat it, too. We just need someone to make this:
http://www.hipnetic.com/geek/treo_new2.gif

The WM Apache/Wizard design is the closest to this, but still needs work. My mockup was created ages ago. What's taking so long for someone to do this?

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
twizza @ 9/15/2005 2:17:02 PM # Q
Non-Palm employees cannot comment on Live Faith announced products as we do not comment on future items no matter how much we want them. For more information about the models we can comment on, please consult our client-leaders at Palm for more information. Non-Palm employees cannot be held liable for any information from Palm that we did not directly say ourselves.

8^)

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Timothy Rapson @ 9/15/2005 3:54:22 PM # Q
Hmm..... Now for the tough choice. Treo 800 or Samsung i733. Treo or Sammy. Hmmm... Such a tough choice. Then too, there are 10 other Cobalt models coming in the next three months as promised by PalmSource. A dozen new Cobalt choices by the end of 2005.
LiveFaith, do you have a picture of the dual boot, Cobalt/Plinux OS LG model that is surely right around the corner too?

I just never get tired of knowing what is coming thanks to LiveFaith's topnotch detective work.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/15/2005 7:57:49 PM # Q
> I used to be Anti-Thumboard, Pro-Graffiti but after using the Treo 650 for a few weeks, I realize how efficient and easy/intuitive/ergonomic a good thumboard is. I would rather have 320x320 with thumboard than 480x320 without.

Gekko, I expect the vast majority of Treo 650 users would agree with you. However, the T650 keyboard drives me nuts - I actually prefer to use G2 most of the time and the keyboard just gets in the way.

Using G2 on a Treo is not easy. Grafitti Anywhere is kind of clunky. So I have copied the 'Writing Area' files from my TE2 onto my Treo. It works quite well (although it stopes working occassionally in Blazer). Also, the Treo form factor is not conducive to writing G2 with the Treo on a desk - the back of the Treo is too rounded and the Treo itself is a little too thick to write comfortably anyway.

I pray for the day that Palm will release a Treo model with a detachable keyboard, the removal of which reveals a hard Graffiti writing area underneath. Well, I can dream, can't I?

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
cervezas @ 9/15/2005 10:37:49 PM # Q
Here's a concept for people who want to use their smartphone for viewing high-quality video but don't want the "Batman belt" when they're just out on the town:

http://tinyurl.com/7khus

It'd take a lot of work on the software side to get something like this to work--getting a device to drive two touchscreens with not just different screen resolution, but different screen layouts would be a challenge. But the carriers would fall all over themselves to get these things into your hands since it would finally make all-you-can eat 3G bandwidth something worth paying for.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko @ 9/15/2005 10:47:43 PM # Q

beersie - that contraption would be huge. you might as well go with a little/slim/light Dell notebook with full-blown Windows on it. If it ain't pocketable, you might as well go with a laptop.



RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
cervezas @ 9/16/2005 1:29:54 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:
that contraption would be huge. you might as well go with a little/slim/light Dell notebook with full-blown Windows on it. If it ain't pocketable, you might as well go with a laptop.

Hmmm, I don't think so. By that logic you could say to someone thinking about buying a little/slim/light laptop that they might as well buy one with a big screen and another spindle. Fact is, different people have different thresholds for portability and even one person will judge portability relative to what they want to do and where.

My point is that laptops running full-blown PC operating systems don't satisfy the 80/20 rule for a large number of mobile computer users. That is, they are designed to be bigger, more complicated and slower to boot than they need to be to perform the stuff that these users need to do on their mobile computer 80% of the time.

Microsoft knows this and they are fumbling their way toward an answer:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1785645,00.asp

The tablet-as-phone accessory is a better idea from a business standpoint than just shrinking a tablet PC like Gates wants to do. The carriers could literally give these auxiliary tablets away with the purchase of a Treo and make money off the increased use of wireless data plans.

And by the way, the tablet could be a lot smaller and slimmer than I rendered it if you prefer. Look at the Nokia 770 which has almost the same screen resolution as I'm talking about but is only 6 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches. In my opinion, though, that's too tiny to be comfortable as a laptop replacement for the market segment I'm talking about. Fonts will be too small and the pen input too fussy for prolonged use, so it will be of interest mainly to people who would buy a WiFi-enabled PDA.

As you know, that group of people is shrinking. I intentionally made this screen physically larger and tried to make it so it would feel good in your hand.

Anyway, it certainly wouldn't be for everyone, but I don't think the successful devices of the future will be the ones that try to be everything to everyone. I'd use it because I fly 5-6 hrs a week and ride taxis for another 3-4 hours and *hate* trying to use a laptop in those situations. I also would like a full-screen browser on a wireless device that could sit on my nightstand or coffee table where I'd never want a laptop.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
cervezas @ 9/16/2005 2:15:31 AM # Q
That link to the Microsoft mini-tablet url in a link you can click:
http://tinyurl.com/c8uyj

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 2:58:27 AM # Q
1 pound microlaptops with 5 - 8 inch screens running REAL Windows (think a blend of Sharp Zaurus and Sony Vaio U series) with integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth +/- cellphone radio make a LOT more sense than your crude mockup.

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 2:58:27 AM # Q
1 pound microlaptops with 5 - 8 inch screens running REAL Windows (think a blend of Sharp Zaurus and Sony Vaio U series) with integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth +/- cellphone radio make a LOT more sense than your crude mockup.

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are alive and kicking!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 2:58:27 AM # Q
1 pound microlaptops with 5 - 8 inch screens running REAL Windows (think a blend of Sharp Zaurus and Sony Vaio U series) with integrated Wi-Fi, Bluetooth +/- cellphone radio make a LOT more sense than your crude mockup.

http://www.dynamism.com/sl-c3000/gallery.shtml

Anyone carrying a device heavier than 6 - 9 ounces is probably only going to be willing to do so if it's running REAL Windows. Try again, Bubba.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
AdamaDBrown @ 9/16/2005 4:30:40 AM # Q
I don't see micro-laptops making it even at 1 pound. It's just too much of a size/weight penalty compared to a solid-state PDA--how many people are really going to want a full-scale desktop enough to put up with the bulk, compared to a RISC PDA that does many of the same things? Not to mention that the price will continue to be horrible for some time to come.

Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
cervezas @ 9/16/2005 8:29:19 AM # Q
AdamaDBrown wrote:
I don't see micro-laptops making it even at 1 pound. It's just too much of a size/weight penalty compared to a solid-state PDA--how many people are really going to want a full-scale desktop enough to put up with the bulk, compared to a RISC PDA that does many of the same things? Not to mention that the price will continue to be horrible for some time to come.

There are several problems with a micro-laptop running Windows, but price is going to be the big one because I don't think that many people have a really compelling need for a device that's neither a very good laptop noor a good PDA.

What makes an auxiliary tablet for a smartphone marketable is that since it doesn't have a processor, RAM, storage, wireless radios, or OS of its own it's very cheap to build. And since it would drive wireless data usage it would probably be free with the purchase of a locked Treo from a wireless carrier. When you bought a smartphone it would just come with one of these, like the wall wart for charging it. It's hard to argue with free, and I think people would catch on to there being a lot of times when they'd like to use them.

Show me a micro-PC in the $700, 250 gram range, and I'll bite. Until then, I suspect that the buzz over XP handhelds is premature.

I'm not sure even a 250 gram XP handheld would sell to more than a handful of geeks at $700. Which means they will probably never sell well. I'm not even sure if I would buy one for that price.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2005 10:46:47 AM # Q
I don't know how many caught this, but did you look closely at the UI on the mini laptop Gates was holding. Step Back Windows!!!

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/CobaltBill.jpg

... even M$ has to do what it can for market share!!!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2005 10:50:01 AM # Q
Tim,

I'm not sure it's dual boot and LG hasn't paid my fee yet, but here's what I post just for you. I hear it will be called 600i, quad-band GSM, mini-SD, hvga rez & 56MB built-in mem. Sliding keyboard: Unknown

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/lg600i.jpg

... developing.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Tuckermaclain @ 9/16/2005 12:13:09 PM # Q
WHere do you get these scoops, Live Faith? When I googled the three models you mention, you are the only reference for two of them. The Treo 800 has alot of references who generally feel the photo is a fake. If you are faking them you should apply for a job at Palm1 in product development. Use these photos in your resume. All look buildable and would be far superior to any PalmPhone now out. Why can't Palm build it? Maybe soon with Access LG will jump on board and do it.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 4:47:54 PM # Q
WHere do you get these scoops, Live Faith? When I googled the three models you mention, you are the only reference for two of them. The Treo 800 has alot of references who generally feel the photo is a fake.

Two of his models are expected to be released at the same time that Palm releases a Cobalt PDA

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
hkklife @ 9/16/2005 5:25:01 PM # Q
Voice;

If the T7 fulfills EVERY rumored spec Ryan lists in the news item, is built up to par and has decent battery life, would you consider giving it a closer look as a "modern" TH55 equivalent?

If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko @ 9/16/2005 5:53:32 PM # Q
RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Timothy Rapson @ 9/16/2005 7:50:04 PM # Q
That Sprint 6700 is a nice alternative to the larger HTC Universal. Looks like the recently rumored HP models.

David Beers,
I guess most of the reactions to your mockup are mixed, but I could see that being a nice piece for a few people in just your needs set. Plain trips, commutes. I am not sure it could compete with a $350 cash Nokia 770 with a phone contract. I understand that the next 770 will be a complete phone itself. As you note the 770 screen may be too small for real surfing compared to your mockup.

Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop. Never. I suppose this is not a real handheld, but the phone without it is and the phone with it is, but the phone with it is just too big to pocket but not big enough to replace a laptop.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 9:08:10 PM # Q
Voice;

If the T7 fulfills EVERY rumored spec Ryan lists in the news item, is built up to par and has decent battery life, would you consider giving it a closer look as a "modern" TH55 equivalent?

If it has a voice recorder and FAT32 support for >2gb SD cards, I'm in. As long as I buy from someplace local with a 14-day trial policy...

That's a lot of ifs. If you've ever used a TH55 you'll know how high that PDA set the bar. I don't think Palm has even the slightest hope of making as good a PDA. Ever.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
hkklife @ 9/16/2005 10:07:09 PM # Q
Yup, the (Euro) TH55 was arguably the POS paradigm for features wrapped into a sleek package that is well-built to boot.

I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation, the beefier CPU, SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike), hard buttons, and stylus. 128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.

Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to. By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.

Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/17/2005 1:42:17 AM # Q
Guys, if this thing is to be released on October 11, then it's too late to make demands about 'must have' features. If this thing is for real, the first production run would have been done by now and the units would be already loaded on a slow boat from China.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/17/2005 1:47:17 AM # Q
Oops, I should have said Taiwan (not China) - one of the few parts of the China which is not brutalised by those marxist @ssholes in Being. May all communists burn in hell.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
Gekko @ 9/17/2005 9:16:28 AM # Q

may all democrats and liberals burn in hell, too. at least they keep losing elections! thank God!

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
cervezas @ 9/17/2005 10:15:37 AM # Q
I understand that the next 770 will be a complete phone itself.

Strangely, no, it won't. In fact it's not even desigend to connect over GPRS; It's purely a Wi-Fi device. But they say that the second version coming out next year will have VOIP.

Here is a real problem for your model though. There has never been a successful handheld between the size of a Palm III and a full laptop.

Yeah, I know, and you may be right. There have been quite a few attempts, too. Of course, look at all the failed attempts that were made to develop a handheld computer before Palm came along and got it right. There's always the hope that someone is going to find the right mix of features, form, and price and the meme will take root. That's unlikely to be me, but I like thinking about what it would take to do it right--for me anyway.

Good comments, thanks.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
twrock @ 9/17/2005 12:24:59 PM # Q
VOIP is available for the 770 now.
http://tinyurl.com/8wmz6

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Get a European CLIE TH55 instead (Bluetooth/W-Fi)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/17/2005 1:09:01 PM # Q
Yup, the (Euro) TH55 was arguably the POS paradigm for features wrapped into a sleek package that is well-built to boot.

That's why I have a bunch of them stockpiled...

I just prefer (still) Palm's PIM/launcher implementation,

The TH55 can be changed back to the default PalmOS launcher in less than 5 seconds. CLIE Organizer is OPTIONAL. It would have been interesting to see what they would have done with CLIE Organizer with a little more development.

the beefier CPU,

The 123 MHz HHE chip in the TH55 works as well as ANY CPU I've used in a PDA. Multimedia on a TH55 (video, MP3, etc) is actually BETTER than any Palm I've tested. MHz is actually not the most important factor in designing a good PDA CPU.


SD support (just because I've invested a ton into the format--I have no inherent MS dislike),

Yes, I hate the way Sony gouges consumers on the price of its memory (twice the price of competing SD). There have also been several fundamental changes in Memory Stick design (speed, form factor, DRM) that have hurt compatibility between devices. And CompactFlash is available for 1/3 the price and in MUCH larger storage capacities than Memory Stick. But Sony's proprietary stategy actually worked with me. Once you invest in a few Memory Sticks you find yourself inclined to buy more devices that use them. I now have several Memory Stick digital cameras, PDAs and a Memory Stick video recorder - all Sony, all because I got hooked on the quality of CLIEs. Had Sony not made the colossal mistake of not including a Memory Stick slot on the PS2, Memory Stick may have already surpassed SD in popularity.

hard buttons,

I'll take a jog dial over the hard buttons any day.

and stylus.

With the UX50 keyboard, the stylus is rarely needed. And a tap with a finger or a pen cap is a LOT faster than using a stylus.

128mb of ram would be the icing on the cake

Yes 128 MB RAM would be ideal. Even 64 MB would be nice. But then again, my UX50 only has 16 MB RAM and I probably have a couple HUNDRED apps on it. PowerRUN and LauncherX make it easy to live with limited memory.

PROVIDED all of those "ifs" are met.

Given the facts that Palm ALWAYS cuts corners and that their devices are now made in China with shoddy construction, I don't expect to EVER see another good device from Palm. Fortunately, the UX50, TH55 and VZ90 are close to perfect for their individual niches.

Palm CAN do it--they just don't WANT to.

I don't believe Palm has the will OR the ability to produce a quality device.

By the time they seem certain to get it right---going by PST (PALM Standard Time) we're looking at spring or fall of '06. This really does seem their last chance to get it right and I'll still wager it's too little, too late.

Had the T7 come out this time last year, we could have lived with a few omissions from the T3. But at this point in time, especially with a lameduck OS pulling the rug out from under Palm at every turn, you'd think they'd take pains to integrate every relative low-tech bell'n whistle possible (charging LED, voice recorder, metal body, cradle in the box) to please their dwindling fan base.

Try to find a European TH55 if you can. (You can expect to pay over $600 for a new one.) If you have one of them, you probably will not care whether or not Palm gets their act together before they get killed off ("Amiga-ed").



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Brilliant commentary, Bubba. Brilliant.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/17/2005 2:27:35 PM # Q
Guys, if this thing is to be released on October 11, then it's too late to make demands about 'must have' features. If this thing is for real, the first production run would have been done by now and the units would be already loaded on a slow boat from China.

Are you saying that Palm couldn't manage to change fundamental hardware features in PDAs that will be out in less than a month? Wow. As usual, you provide the trenchant analysis that people flock to Palminfocenter to get. Thanks for sharing.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/17/2005 11:53:38 PM # Q
Listen, The Vat of Refuse, when I want a smart-alec comment, I'll go to a bar with a stand-up comedian. By the way, no matter how many thousands of posts you make here, you really can't make yourself any more ridiculous than you already are.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/18/2005 12:08:41 AM # Q
> may all democrats and liberals burn in hell, too.

Ditto that.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
AdamaDBrown @ 9/18/2005 12:49:43 AM # Q
Ah, svrontis. Methinks somebody has deep unresolved anger issues.

OT: You want political commentary? Right here Bubba.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/18/2005 11:56:56 AM # Q
> may all democrats and liberals burn in hell, too.

Ditto that.

There probably isn't space available for "democrats and liberals" in Hell - it's already filled up with dumba$$ yokel Republican and Conservatives like you, Bubba.

Here is a photo of your "fearless" leader, Adolph Bush in action:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/f/bush_vacation_fishing.jpg

How about you keep dumba$$ political rants like yours out of Palminfocenter in the future.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
dona83 @ 9/18/2005 3:07:24 PM # Q
I was at a meeting of eleven people... in attendance was my Treo 600, a Tungsten T5, a Tungsten E2, and a Zire 71. This was a coodinration meeting between the client, architect, electrical, mechanical, and security engineers. Although I do love my Treo 600, the Tungsten T5 just seemed to be a way more productive device. That's my two cents.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/18/2005 8:30:30 PM # Q
Grasshopper, what's the matter - can't you take a little criticism of your masters? You running dog marxist lackey.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/18/2005 8:34:33 PM # Q
Grasshopper, I notice that you have less than 15 post in the PIC list of the 30 most recent posts. Are you ill? Or is it that you are far too busy performing a mission critical and potentially life saving task at your hospital (such as reinstalling the Solitaire program). We really miss your insightfull and well reasoned commentary. No, really, we do - without you there would be nobody to laugh at. Bozo.

Take a Valium, sv
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/18/2005 11:13:01 PM # Q
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/o/f/bush_vacation_fishing.jpg

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
svrontis @ 9/19/2005 12:23:03 AM # Q
AdamaDBrown, I read with interest your recent article over at bargainpda.com.

Here is a link, in case anyone missed it:

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2665

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
ZekeSulastin @ 9/19/2005 1:42:14 PM # Q
The article is an interesting read - methinks I'm going to print it/email the link to it/show it on my pda to some of my friends in the Treo = phone camp ...

Also, TVoR/anyone who follows him and his links, http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/recreate.asp ...

I almost bought a TH-55 off of ebay to replace my now-dead SJ-33 (worked like a tank - the digitizer just went south), then figured I'd be better off buying a new device with a warranty, support, et. al., leading me to the Axim x50v. Granted, I miss the PalmOS, but I still feel better about my decision to get the device ...

I'm not interested in a smartphone yet, as I'd rather have the two devices that do their respective jobs very well, rather than having one device that's ok in each. That'll likely change in a few years, though.

RE: PDAs are DEAD anyway
InsGuy @ 9/19/2005 2:46:15 PM # Q
Zeke,

Congrats and welcome to "The Dark Side". I like my X50v also, but still miss the Palm OS. I'm keeping an eye out for a Palm to bring me back; it's not here yet, but I'm still looking.



All good things...

Reply to this comment

Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?

gfunkmagic @ 9/14/2005 6:14:51 PM # Q
Hmmm... so this is the first Tungsten branded handheld with camera? I always thought the Tungstens were supposed to be enterprise orientated with focus towards busincess professionals and thus things like integrated cameras were purposefully omitted. And the Zire like was the consumer line with devices like the Z72 with digicams...

So does this mean that Palm is going to phase out the Z72 line of midrange consumer Zires and instead use the Tungsten line to market consumer handhelds? Will the Zire line only be for ultra low end like Z22?

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz lin
VampireLestat @ 9/14/2005 6:23:17 PM # Q
hmm that would make sense.

RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
hkklife @ 9/14/2005 6:30:12 PM # Q
I always thought the Zire & Tungsten overlap really didn't make much sense. I'd position the Zires as SUB-$200 devices, have the T|E whatever at $200 and then a flagship Tungsten at $300.

Palm's spring '06 lineup:

$100 (Zire 22)
$150 (Zire 32)
$200 (or less) (T|E2)
$300 (or less) (TX)
$400 (LifeDrive2)

That makes for a decent lineup.

$400ish (unlocked) Treo 650 leftovers or a new low-end Treo
$500 (unlocked) Treo 670
$650 (unlocked) high-end WinMob Treo 700


Treos honestly cannot be priced under this structure because every damm carrier has their own wacky pricing structure/deals/rebates that never arrive. You can "buy" PDAs outright. Unless you can snag an unlocked Treo, you have to sell your soul to get a discount on one.



RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
Masamune @ 9/15/2005 5:30:35 AM # Q
This is the other thing that bugs me (aside from the dodgy Photoshop work). Why has the processor dropped from 400Mhz down to 312Mhz? With every upgrade they add onto Garnet, it reduces the OS's overall performance. It just seems like a slower processor would make the problem worse.

Oh, and as for the whole large screen vs smartphone debate, do what I did - get a Nokia 9300!

RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz lin
twizza @ 9/15/2005 1:47:02 PM # Q
If the speed is indeed lower, it would mean that Palm is still into sipping for the least amount of power used so that wifi stays benficial for those who will want to use it most of the day. At least that's why I thuoght the TC had a big battery and nice processor.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: Tungsten + Camera?!! Isn't this supposed to be biz line?
svrontis @ 9/16/2005 1:04:25 AM # Q
> $500 (unlocked) Treo 670
$650 (unlocked) high-end WinMob Treo 700

If the hardware is the same those units, I can't see myself paying $150 for the dubious privilege of being a WinCE beta-tester. YMWV.

Reply to this comment

"Woke up this morning..."

twrock @ 9/14/2005 8:10:20 PM # Q
...had a quick look at PIC, saw this rumor, and had to read through the article and all the comments.

What a breath of fresh air!!!!!

Agreement/disagreement. Point/counterpoint. Discussion and musing. And the really refreshing part was the general attitude of common courtesy and (dare I say it) respect for differing opinions. It'd be really nice to have it stay this way for a while.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

"All good things...."
twrock @ 9/18/2005 1:02:06 AM # Q
Yep, didn't last long. But it was nice for a moment there.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Reply to this comment

Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!

The Turtle @ 9/14/2005 8:15:13 PM # Q
Oh my god, did they just mention voice recorder? They got it right for once!!

Still waiting for Cobalt...Garnet 5.99999999999999999999999 will not cut it in 2006.
RE: Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!
Docta G @ 9/15/2005 12:36:37 AM # Q
Man, if this is true and it does have a VR, I'm right there with you.

But let's wait and see. I, for one, am not holding my breath....

RE: Voice Recorder? Be still my heart, palm got it right!
ozz @ 9/17/2005 1:06:59 AM # Q
I was just about to buy a T3 from eBay (they are averaging about $180-$220 for the winning bids) then I read this rumor about the Tx. Wow....this IS exactly what I was looking for. With the built-in WiFi and voice recorder....I'm sold!! Palm will probably have some sort of introductory promo when the Tx is released which will sweeten the deal even more. Can't WAIT!!
Reply to this comment

me wanty now!

legodude522 @ 9/14/2005 10:19:28 PM # Q
The palm of my hand is empty. I shall by this device. No matter how buggy it is.

Palm m125 December 25, 2003 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to present.
RE: me wanty now!
4s @ 9/16/2005 9:53:43 AM # Q
Apparently, Palm has been counting on customers like you for some time now.

<><
Reply to this comment

Amazon

gregjsmith @ 9/14/2005 11:42:59 PM # Q
I will believe it when I see it "accidently" added early to Amazon.

http://homepage.mac.com/gregjsmith
Reply to this comment

Zire 22--odd man out?

hkklife @ 9/15/2005 10:57:13 AM # Q
I really don't see how Palm is going to differentiate beween the Zire 22 and the Zire 31...unless they discontinue the 31. I've said ever since the 31 launched that it's the best bang for the buck Palm ever. If nothing else, add a cheap 1gb SD card to it and it makes a very capable MP3 player that is a fine basic PDA as well.

Palm will be losing a MAJOR selling point by omitting the SD slot from the Zire 22. If they try to keep the 22 and 31 side by side at retail, expect tremendous confusion to ensue. One has more RAM & likely a better screen while the other one will have an SD slot and a headphone jack.

I think a better strategy might be to try and hit the $75 price point with a VERY basic color Zire that can compete against all of those Royal, Sharp, and Casio organizers that are still sold at retail (SOMEONE'S gotta be buying those things, right?). Then have the step-up model as a Zire 32 in the $125-$150 neighborhood with a decent set of multimedia capabilities.

Despite the razor thin profit margins on those kinds of devices, there's plenty of life left in Garnet and for traditional PDAs in general in <$200 realm. Palm would be wise to have three models coming in at $200 or below so they could keep a tight grasp on the low end of the market.

Zire 22: Officially the End of Monochrome!
LiveFaith @ 9/15/2005 12:40:37 PM # Q
Finally,

The monochrome screen goes the way of the albatross in Palm PDAs. Unless Palm drags out the death of the 21 at $79, this is the official obituary it seems.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

B&W Predictions
Gekko @ 9/15/2005 2:31:49 PM # Q

i was met with skepticism back in 2001:

I predict in 3 yrs B&W PDA's will be as available as B&W TVs
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 8:51:04 AM #

http://palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=1948&curpage=2

(yes - I didn't logon back then)



RE: Zire 22: Officially the End of Monochrome!
cervezas @ 9/15/2005 7:01:59 PM # Q
Maybe the end of monochrome for consumer devices is no big deal, but in the business world and for many vertical applications monochrome devices are as popular as ever since they last the whole day on a charge even under heavy use--multiple days with lighter use.

Anything that involves work in the field where the user is away from power doing mission critical work requires a monochrome screen, replaceable batteries, or both. If the Zire 21 goes away, that leaves Aceeca and Symbol as the last two makers of monochrome PDAs (not counting Alphasmart or Fossil!). If you don't want barcode scanning, the Aceeca Meazura would be the last Palm OS device left with the battery life for a large number of non-consumer applications.

Unfortunately, while the Meazura has a great price for a supremely ruggedized unit ($400) that's really expensive for some of my customers who deploy hundreds of these things and don't have that kind of budget. A surprising number are still using and maintaining fleets of Handspring Visors for that reason.

I'd be sad to see the Zire 21 go. Bet you can't guess what OS these customers will go to when they can't get monochrome Palm OS devices anymore:

http://www.handheldsystems.com/Handhelds/MS-DOS/Overview.htm

The CEO of a large custom handheld solution provider I know tells me he already sells *many* times more DOS handhelds than Palm or Windows Mobile combined for basically one reason: monochrome screens and the resulting 30hr+ battery life.

The day I had to go back to developing in DOS to satisfy this all-too-common kind of customer would be a dark day indeed. Thank God for Aceeca.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
Dr Opinion @ 9/16/2005 12:51:08 PM # Q
Geeko wrote:

>"i was met with skepticism back in 2001:...I predict in 3 yrs B&W PDA's will be as available as B&W TVs [I.M. Anonymous @ 5/22/2001 8:51:04 AM #"]"

2001 + 3 years is 2004, you drooling nincompoop.

It's almost 2006.

You were wrong.

Why bring this up now? Do you like the humiliation? :)



------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

More specs leaked on both models!
hkklife @ 9/17/2005 9:57:47 AM # Q
Getting back ON TOPIC:

PDABuzz.com is reporting that the new models will debut on Wed, Oct 12th (the article doesn't make the distinction if that's when they will be announced or if it's when they will begin hitting retail shelves).

It also says that the Zire 22 will have 32mb NVFS and that the TX/T7 is "essentially a T5 with wi-fi". There go the voice recorder, charging LED and camera rumors!

*UPDATE*
More info from PDA247.com:
**************************
T|TX
128MB NVFS, SD Card, USB 2.0, no camera, no voicerecord, no vibrate alarms, 320x480, 312Mhz PXA 272, WiFi, BT, Wifi and BT can be used at the same time.

Batt Life: max brightness. wifi connected. bt connected and music playing and warfare inc running (processor intensive app) and proc at 312 mhz is 2hrs and 30minutes!!!

Zire 22:
The Z22's specs will be:
160 x 160. Garnet. No SD. No Sound Output. No Vibrate. No LED alarm. No camera. No voicerecord. 200 MHz PXA 255 (processor info is questionable). 32 MB NVFS. The battery life w/ full brightness is 13 hours.
*********************************

SUPERB battery life on both devices! Lack of a voice recorder is a huge bummer but still not enough to make me want a LifeDrive.

D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers? Imagine if that thing's backlight is cranked down and the CPU is throttled down to 120mhz or so!

RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
Sam H @ 9/17/2005 11:46:27 AM # Q
No voice recorder, no vibrating alarm and no charging LED? Can Palm have laid an egg again?
RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
flevy @ 9/17/2005 6:23:55 PM # Q
While it is not surprising, it is too bad. Compare to this week's reviews of the ipod Nano. Everyone expected the Nano's slim size but reviewers were raving about the extra features no one had expected - better screen, etc. The enthusiasm in this thread shows how Palm could have created the same buzz by including a voice recorder, LED charging light etc. - i.e. beating expectations. But apparently it was not to be.



RE: Zire 22--odd man out?
cervezas @ 9/18/2005 12:08:04 AM # Q
hkklife wrote:
D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers?

I am impressed. It's a key element of the Zen of Palm that I am very happy to see returning.

BTW, we've known each other for a while now, so let's dispense with the formalities--you can call me Brewski. ;)


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Trust no one
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/18/2005 1:06:43 AM # Q
SUPERB battery life on both devices! Lack of a voice recorder is a huge bummer but still not enough to make me want a LifeDrive.

D. Beersie; does 13 hours MINIMUM runtime on the Zire 22 sound good to your customers? Imagine if that thing's backlight is cranked down and the CPU is throttled down to 120mhz or so!

I'd suggest reserving judgement until the devices have been thoroughly texted by at least a few reliable reviewers. And then test them yourself.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X

WareW01f @ 9/15/2005 10:22:02 AM # Q
The changed the name before the launch. (It's not a handheld, it's a mobile manager you know) For any doubters whip out a LifeDrive and grab the model ID from the ROM. It returns 0x54756E58 (which comes out to 'TunX' for the hex/ascii impared)

I own one, and while I'm glad to have the features like all the space, the unit is terribly fragile compared to my past units. I went from a Palm III to a Tungsten T to a LiveDrive. (And it's been a step down each time.) I think Palm learned a lesson with the III, I had mine for 6 years and it is still fully functional in a drawer in my office. I've developed for every unit they have had out after that and it was not until the T|T that I thought it worth the upgrade (That being said I'd recomend an m515 over a Zire any day to the casual user) I just hope that I'm not going to be in the same boat with the LifeDrive as I was with the T, i.e. We biffed, no updates for you! There are many issues with the LifeDrive that I would like to see patched. (Like the fact that half the time you lock the damn thing and it won't turn back on after unlocking.)

Great for watching videos though! TCPMP rocks my world.

RE: The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X
AdamaDBrown @ 9/15/2005 4:42:34 PM # Q
True factoid--some of Palm(One)'s official PR photographs of the LifeDrive show it with the name "Tungsten|X" marked on the top.

Still, that doesn't neccessarily mean that this isn't true.

RE: The LifeDrive *was* the Tungsten X
voice of chaos @ 9/15/2005 10:20:28 PM # Q
Actually, Palm had a Tungsten|X-labelled LifeDrive at the DevCon last May.

Reply to this comment

Price

adamsmark @ 9/15/2005 7:35:10 PM # Q
Tungsten X -- $299?

It's about time if it's true. $400 is too much for a PDA these days. At the reported price, I'd be tempted to add it as a companion to my Treo 650. At three hundred bucks and with all the reported features, the TX will be a choice PDA. Take away one of those elements, though... and the magic gone.

Reply to this comment

Looks like another winner! :)

Dr Opinion @ 9/16/2005 12:55:44 PM # Q
Wow... I was going for the Lifedrive, but a HVGA Palm OS device with dual wireless and 128M RAM, all crammed into the elegant T5 shell sounds -- it's an *incredibly* persuasive package around that price point...

This thing's going to take Christmas by storm. Bye bye wince! :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Looks like another winner! :)
sr4 @ 9/16/2005 1:29:45 PM # Q

Surur

RE: Looks like another winner! :)
InsGuy @ 9/16/2005 2:52:48 PM # Q
"This thing's going to take Christmas by storm. Bye bye wince! :)"


Uhmmmm...yeah.

All good things...

RE: Looks like another winner! :)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/16/2005 4:53:05 PM # Q
This thing's going to take Christmas by storm. Bye bye wince! :)


Surur are you posting using the Dr Opinion alias pretending to be an ignorant PalmOS fanboy just to make PalmOS users look like morons? Very slick.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Looks like another winner! :)
sr4 @ 9/17/2005 3:50:05 AM # Q

I'm sorry, but its not me. I am also having difficulty believing anybody could be such a fanboy. I am starting to think he's just trolling, which is why I am trying not to feed it with a proper rebuttal. It occurs to me that it may be Kirvin though, which would explain everything ;)

Surur

RE: Looks like another winner! :)
E Ben G @ 9/17/2005 11:50:40 AM # Q
I had thought the same thing about it being Kirvin. Which would make sense, considering the dust his lame articles have been collecting lately.



RE: Looks like another winner! :)
sr4 @ 9/17/2005 12:16:50 PM # Q
"Which would make sense, considering the dust his lame articles have been collecting lately."

You can say that again.

What Does the Access Buyout Mean? - 19 comments after 6 days.
Podcast 41 - 16 comments after 3 days
Last two entries on his blog - 0 comments

I think he's discovering the worst thing that can happen to a trumped up self-publicist Circuit City salesman is to be ignored.

Surur

Dr Opinion = Jeff Kirvin? How sad.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/17/2005 2:02:53 PM # Q
It occurs to me that [Dr Opinion] may be Kirvin though, which would explain everything ;)


Ryan could probably confirm ths by comparing the IP addresses of the two posters.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Calling Jeff Kirvin... Come in [out], Jeff.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/17/2005 2:50:28 PM # Q
I think he's discovering the worst thing that can happen to a trumped up self-publicist Circuit City salesman is to be ignored.


Bwahahahaha. Poor little ba$tard. He tried the "shock jock" angle for a while, saying the most outrageous things just to generate controversey + comments but no one seems to care. What's Kirvin doing for work these days, anyway?

I just went to 1source to see for myself. Isn't it intereseting that they link to every Palm site but Palminfocenter (the most famous site)? Hmmmmmmmmm... Sounds like some Kiddies have got their panties in a knot...



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

The power button looks just so crappy

dmdmd @ 9/16/2005 8:24:53 PM # Q
The power button on T5 looks just so crappy. Even they want to save money by avoiding metalic case, try to make the whole casing and buttons with good quality plastic.

RE: The power button looks just so crappy
hkklife @ 9/16/2005 10:17:58 PM # Q
No the biggest insult is the lame green paint stripe across the power button on the T5 (and likely T7 too). HOW much would it cost to integrate an LED into there? The Palm V had it in the previous MILLENNIUM!

Ideally, stick a microphone cutout between the power button & the headphone jack. Don't worry about having a dedicated hard voice recorder button on the side of the unit (hardcore VR users can map the star button or one of the bottom hard buttons to the recorder app).

There, I've just addressed the two major shortcomings of the T5 by MERELY ALTERING THE TOP PLASTIC PANEL OF THE CASE!! I know how much injection mold toolings can be and Palm's reluctance to chance the physical body of the handheld due to cost. But they can take the above suggestions to heart, alter only the top of the handheld, and make the rest of the chances underhood (more RAM, bigger battery, wi-fi) and to FrankenGarnet. Bingo! New flagship device! Really, people, how hard can this be?

Palm hardware will ALWAYS suck
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/17/2005 2:54:22 PM # Q
Really, people, how hard can this be?

Presumably too hard for Palm to accomplish. Do yourself a HUGE favor: stop knocking yourself out begging Palm to make a decent PDA. End the frustration by accepting that they can't/won't and buying the best traditional PDA design ever produced: the European TH55.


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: The power button looks just so crappy
hkklife @ 9/17/2005 7:24:31 PM # Q
But Voice, then if I stop slagging on Palm then I'll have to start slagging on Sony for:

1. The toothpick styli on nearly every modern Clie.

2. Their lame hardware buttons (yes, the jog dial is nice-I have a great Sony desk phone with it and it's superb for Caller ID functionality).

3. The myriad of differing Memory Stick formats (as you pointed out above)and still a subpar $/MB ratio compared to SD & CF.

4. Being so utterly foolish as to omit BT on the Americanized TH55 and/or not send a localized VZ90 Stateside (in small batches) as the Clie line's swan song.

That said, I am kicking myself for buying a 2nd T3 last year after my first one disentegrated on me after 5 months. I shoulda gotten the TH55 while it was still widely available!

I will probably end up with a T7 if I can get one for below MSRP right off, simply out of a lack of anything else out there and that I'd rather put $600 towards a subnotebook instead of an OS5 Palm device. Still, I applaud your foresight to stock up on Clies! How many Clies DO you actually have in reserve?

Vintage CLIEs are better than NEW Palms.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/18/2005 12:03:56 AM # Q
But Voice, then if I stop slagging on Palm then I'll have to start slagging on Sony for:

1. The toothpick styli on nearly every modern Clie.

Stylus is rarely needed with UX50. If stylus input is required, a tap from a finger or pen cap works fine. For the TH55, I advise people to just buy a stylus pen.

2. Their lame hardware buttons (yes, the jog dial is nice-I have a great Sony desk phone with it and it's superb for Caller ID functionality).

I don't play games on my PDAs so the hardware buttons don't matter to me.

3. The myriad of differing Memory Stick formats (as you pointed out above)and still a subpar $/MB ratio compared to SD & CF.

Yes, Memory Stick is overpriced and storage capacities are too low. But once you start amassing a collection of devices using Memory Stick pretty soon you don't care about its shortcomings. Functionally all the memory formats are fine and the quality of the Sony branded Memory Sticks is excellent. (I haven't had any problems after using them for the past 5? years.

4. Being so utterly foolish as to omit BT on the Americanized TH55 and/or not send a localized VZ90 Stateside (in small batches) as the Clie line's swan song.

Sony's decisions were not foolish. Bluetooth wasn't popular in the U.S.A. at the time of the TH55 release. I presume Sony didn't want to go through the hassle of getting approval from the FCC for Bluetooth. There was no point in sending an English VZ90 to the States since Sony was already pulling out of the market and it would likely have sold in very low numbers given the high price.

That said, I am kicking myself for buying a 2nd T3 last year after my first one disentegrated on me after 5 months. I shoulda gotten the TH55 while it was still widely available!

I think the T3 is a great PDA denign that was compromised by crappy quality control. What's the point of keeping all your important data on a PDA if you can't trust that it won't just die on you?

I will probably end up with a T7 if I can get one for below MSRP right off, simply out of a lack of anything else out there and that I'd rather put $600 towards a subnotebook instead of an OS5 Palm device. Still, I applaud your foresight to stock up on Clies! How many Clies DO you actually have in reserve?

If I was you I'd check eBay for a used, well cared for TH55 before becoming a beta tester for the T7. I have over a dozen CLIEs and another dozen or so vintage Palms and TRG/HandEras. Some of the backup CLIEs are for future office use, some will be given away as gifts and the rest are for personal use over the next 5 - 10 years. These models do everything I could need from a PDA + I have all the software I will ever need, so I think I'm done with buying new PDA hardware for a loooooooong time. All I want is a high quality small PalmOS Bluetooth phone. To bad Samsung is gone...

TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: The power button looks just so crappy
adamsmark @ 9/19/2005 12:11:37 PM # Q
Voice of Reason:

I own a TH55, and it could have been the best PDA ever, except for these factors:

1. Slow
2. Tiny stylus
3. Clie organizer (which is actually pretty cool, apart from some severe limitations)
4. Odd button placement

I've also owned a PEG-615, which replaced my Palm V. That was a great PDA for its time.

I have some gripes about Palm (bad experience with the T3, which was a great PDA), but Sony never made a super PDA.

RE: The power button looks just so crappy
hkklife @ 9/19/2005 12:37:16 PM # Q
You can talk but the Voice isn't listening...he's departed this sit as of yesterday evening.

I share your sentiments about the TH55. Great feature-set (in Euro form only) and I still maintain the omission of BT from the US model is as inexcusable as Palm crippling the LD with 32mb RAM or dual wireless taking so long to appear.

I never used the Th55 enough to vouch for the speed (or lack thereof) in its Handheld Engine CPU but it was noticably slower than the T|C or T3 or whatever Palm I was using that day for comparison purposes (games & mp3 playback while switching apps in fullscreen mode).

The stylus & miserable hard buttons are still drealbreakers for me. Like I said the other day, the TH55 was and still is a nice handheld but there's no way I'd pay $500+ for a new or gently used one.

Slightly off-topic:

The best Clies, relative to the competition and the featuresets they had for their time were the classic 710/760s and the NR70V/T665 66mhz OS4 units. After that, (ie the OS5 era) Sony seemed to put the Clies on the back burner and pay less attention to the buttons, stylus etc. and everything got impossibly proprietary (launcher, PIMs, Decuma) if you were trying to make a seamless, quick transition from a Palm or Handspring device.

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T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison

hkklife @ 9/19/2005 11:48:45 AM # Q
Assuming the latest rumors (on Brighthand this AM) are accurate:

T5 Pros:
1. Cheaper-good retail discounts on remaining T5 stock
2. Faster CPU
3. 256mb RAM--160mb flash drive, 64mb program memory

T7 Pros:

1. Wi-fi
2. BT 1.2 as well as simultaneous wireless functionality
3. Longer battery life
4. Better looking dark case/better build quality (big IF)?
5. Equal or better stability than T5 due to FrankenGarnet 5.4.9 (big IF)?

Looks like, as I expected, voice recorder, camera, charging LED, vibrating alarm are all MIA. At the VERY least let's hope Palm puts in a full sized reset hole so the stylus tip can push it. I have come to hate all non-boingboing styli and having to unscrew something just adds insult to injury.

RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
Akula_dude @ 9/19/2005 3:02:28 PM # Q
I'm gonna get a beating for this, but...

[welcome to beatings] My ipaq h2210 is good for what I use it for, but what it could improve on is a keyboard.[not welcome to beatings]

What I would like to see in a "T7" is:
*520mhz Intel Xscale (i know people out there will say "but 400mhz is good for me" but let's face it, if you want to play or record high-resolution video, your gonna need the power.)
*128mb RAM
*512mb of NAND (for the built-in storage)
*a BIG (4") HVGA screen
*Slide'n'hide keyboard
*2mp camera (like in the Sony but with ablility to record video in AT LEAST 640x480 so you can have decent playback)
*Dont care what OS
*BT v1.2
*wifi
*SD slot
*a CompactFlash slot! Please give me more than one expansion slot!
*$450-$500

Just throwing ideas into the air...

Akula

RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
hkklife @ 9/19/2005 3:18:00 PM # Q
The perfect Palm (IMO). Features listed in no particular order:

-Front bezel (metal) similar to LifeDrive's but w/ overall T5 thickness. Plastic back panel is fine for weight & cost savings
-Support for simultaneous hard button presses (for gaming)
-Side rails for securing a hard case. Good build quality a must!
-BT 1.2 w/ all profiles enabled
-Wi-Fi (802.11b is fine but g would be ideal)
-User-replacable battery, available in various capacities/sizes
-Boing boing stylus
-Voice recorder w/ updated VR app with adjustable sampling rate & decent quality mic
-Charge LED & T|T style reset opening on back side
-128mb RAM
-512mb NAND internal drive
-Built-in backup app. Possibly a built-in CPU throttle control toggle in Prefs menu
-User-selectable Graffit 1 or 2 in Prefs menu
-Cradle included in box
-A stable POS version & no major bugs in the shipping product-this includes the bundled apps as well
-MSRP at launch less than $400

This is a VERY realistic set of features. THIS is the device the POS world has been asking for SOMEONE to product since 2001! The above features are all basically available in various SHIPPING OS 5.x Palm models here'n there. We just need it all consolidated into a single device that's stable and isn't the size of a brick.

RE: T5 vs. T7 quickie comparison
twizza @ 9/19/2005 3:21:33 PM # Q
you do know, that if you presumptions are correct about the T7, that it probably has the same xscale processor as the T5, meaning that the T7 can be *overclocked* (better word, "scaled") to 416 and 520mhz). Just an fyi from your friendly neighbor twizza :)

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
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new info and pics

iru @ 9/22/2005 5:16:38 PM # Q
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can you help me?

dennis ty @ 9/24/2005 2:41:40 PM # Q
i would like to sell my TT, how much should it? and i 'm looking for a new pda, please recomman me which is better. thank you

i want to sell my TT, how much i would sell it? i looking for a new palm, which 1 is better from peforments and price?
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