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Comments on: Confirmed: Layoffs at Palm Inc Today

updated PalmInfocenter has heard from reliable source that Palm is announcing layoffs today. Unconfirmed reports indicate that Palm has already begun to notify employees and a possible announcement may come sometime later this week.

Palm currently employs around 1,247 people. While we don't have an official confirmation at this time, a few ex-emplyees have come forward with claims that the layoffs are worldwide and could number in the hundreds. The company had their last round of layoffs back in June, with reports indicating around 100 people were let go.

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Not quite factual

SeldomVisitor @ 12/12/2007 5:28:22 PM # Q
> ...The company had their last round of layoffs
> back in June, with reports indicating around 100
> people were let go...

No, this is the last time we were TOLD about layoffs.

RE: Not quite factual
IHateEdandJeff @ 12/13/2007 11:09:14 AM # Q
Not true...they shut down their Andover, MA. office (or "Andover, MO. as Ed called it in his memo to the Andover employees) and layoffs there started in June with the office closing in October.
RE: Not quite factual
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 11:23:11 AM # Q
And in their last conference call they said they had 1100 employees at the end of the quarter they were reporting. And the "WiFi team laid off" rumors were AFTER that quarter closed.

Someone at the CC coming up in a week (18th) will probably ask the "Headcount?" question - let's see if PALM answers it.

And let's see if the question is asked RIGHT this time, too, e.g.:

== "We know that a number of people have and will be laid off
== from PALM. What is the current headcount and how much do you
== expect that headcount to decline further through the end of
== the year?"

and, when Colligan obfuscates the answer to the second part by saying something like:

== "Well, we can't predict the future"

follows up with the question:

== "Then all layoffs you expected have already taken place?"

and when Colligan says:

== "No, not yet"

follows up with:

== "Okay, then how many layoffs that were expected have yet to take place!?"

Giggle.



Reply to this comment

When you outsource EVERYTHING...

SeldomVisitor @ 12/12/2007 5:30:37 PM # Q
...as with the 500v, who needs employees?


Reply to this comment

Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!

jeffhoward001 @ 12/12/2007 5:40:08 PM # Q
People get all nervous when a company lays people off... I'd guess that there's a number of lazy-asses at Palm from the "fat" years, and they could stand to tighten things up for the "leans" years ahead. The real talent in a company has a way of bubbling to the top after a well-executed lay off.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo-mini??(like an LD-II with a small attached keyboard??)
RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
Surur @ 12/12/2007 6:09:54 PM # Q
Are they firing the WIFI team for the second time?

Seriously though, one hopes the stock-market driven cutbacks does not make Palm even less competitive, and lead to even further "certification delays". Its pretty ominous that, in December, besides the 800w and GSM Centro, we know little else of Palm's 2008 line-up. Will there even be a 750w replacement? Which other phone company leaves a phone on the market for 2 whole years these days. Yet thats exactly what Palm did with the 700 w/wx, antenna and all.

Palm must be in shambles internally and morale pretty low.

RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
mikecane @ 12/12/2007 8:34:44 PM # Q
>>>Are they firing the WIFI team for the second time?

Goddammit. They came back?!!?

RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
Gekko @ 12/12/2007 8:38:40 PM # Q

we're talking about lives and jobs. it's Christmas time, people have families to feed. have some compassion.



RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
LiveFaith @ 12/13/2007 12:26:32 AM # Q
Niiiice Ego and Alter Ego.

Pat Horne
RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 9:05:38 AM # Q
>>>we're talking about lives and jobs. it's Christmas time, people have families to feed. have some compassion.

Obviously someone has hacked Scrooge Gekko's account.

RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 9:11:07 AM # Q
What the *real* Gekko would have quoted:

``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

And:

``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''

``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.''

``But you might know it,'' observed the gentleman.

``It's not my business,'' Scrooge returned. ``It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!''

RE: Sounds good to me, time to trim the fat!
mikecane @ 12/14/2007 3:26:48 PM # Q
Gekko's surrograte papa speaks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7142073.stm

I wonder who ghostwrote it? (If everyone says *he* wrote it, then it's an ever bigger embarrassment than it is...)

Reply to this comment

Ed and Andy

wildmantrader @ 12/12/2007 5:40:15 PM # Q
Hopefully they are BOTH on the list.
Reply to this comment

The Commodore collapse comparison becomes even more true.

VampireLestat @ 12/12/2007 6:56:13 PM # Q
Didnt take them long to lay off the first quarter they are not profitable huh?

Notice that the main cancerous tumor in the company, Ed PDA-Killer Colligan, is still firmly in placed.

RE: The Commodore collapse comparison becomes even more true.
wildmantrader @ 12/12/2007 7:28:41 PM # Q
They need to shoot the head off the snake. (Ed)
Reply to this comment

Hey, Elevation Partners!

mikecane @ 12/12/2007 8:37:51 PM # Q
How the hell can you allow Ed Colligan to stay? Verizon won't certify that Treo because it's CRAP. CRAP happened under the reign of ED COLLIGAN. The Foleo went through YEARS of wasted development under ED COLLIGAN.

If you guys think the Centro should redeem Colligan, I hope to hell you not only lose every cent you dumped into Palm, but have your asses personally bankrupted by shareholder class action lawsuits and government investigations til you rot!

The FIRST announcement of layoffs should BEGIN with ED COLLIGAN.

RE: Hey, Elevation Partners!
VampireLestat @ 12/12/2007 8:57:07 PM # Q
exactly

RE: Hey, Elevation Partners!
thezenofpalm @ 12/13/2007 6:54:36 AM # Q
Ed Colligan is the new David Nagel.
RE: Hey, Elevation Partners!
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 9:12:33 AM # Q
David nagel had an engineering/scientific education.

Ed is marketing. Which means he's just a moron who lucked into a position.

RE: Hey, Elevation Partners!
IHateEdandJeff @ 12/13/2007 11:11:39 AM # Q
"Ed Colligan is the new David Nagel."

That's doing a disservice to Nagel!!! :)

You know the CEO sucks when the form factor decisions for Palm devices were being made by someone in the ACCOUNTING department!!!!

RE: Hey, Elevation Partners!
abosco @ 12/13/2007 12:55:36 PM # Q
Ed Colligan is the new Carl Yankowski.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
Reply to this comment

Officially Confirmed by Palm

LupinTheThird @ 12/13/2007 2:50:11 AM # Q
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=22694

-----

"Palm lays off employees, more restructuring

A Palm representative confirmed rumors that the troubled maker of the Treo smartphone is laying off people again. Here's the statement from the Sunnyvale company.

" Palm is working to sharpen its focus and better align resources behind core initiatives that will make the greatest impact to our business. To this end, and to ensure that our expenses are in line with projected revenues, we have made some reassignments and reductions in staff. This will better enable us to compete most effectively and ensure our long-term success.
"

There is no sense of how many people are being moved around and laid off. Palminfocenter.com reported this evening that Palm employees told them the layoffs are worldwide and could number in the hundreds. That would be significant for a company with about 1,250 employees. The last layoffs took place this summer.

It's clear that even with the injection of investment from Elevation Partners and the launch of the Palm Centro this fall, Palm is still in trying to right its ship. The company earlier this week said revenue would come in $30 million below earlier forecasts due to delays of a new product.

-----

RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 6:11:43 AM # Q
== "...Palm is working to sharpen its focus and better align
== resources behind core initiatives that will make the greatest
== impact to our business..."

Is PalmOS a core initiative that will make the greatest impact to their business?

RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
Surur @ 12/13/2007 6:57:16 AM # Q
"To this end, and to ensure that our expenses are in line with projected revenues, we have made some reassignments and reductions in staff."

This is the bad part. Its basically saying "It seems we will be making less money from here on out, and we therefore had to reduce out expenses". This does NOT imply the loss this quarter was a one-off due to a missed product launch, but rather an ongoing issue which will affect them for possibly years to come.

RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 7:06:53 AM # Q
> ...Is PalmOS a core initiative that will make the greatest impact
> to their business?

To take that thought further...

Is Linux internals a core initiative that will make the greatest impact to their business?

Or have they adopted Android?


RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 9:07:24 AM # Q
>>>To this end, and to ensure that our expenses are in line with projected revenues, we have made some reassignments and reductions in staff.

We can't EARN a profit so we must hang onto the money we have by getting rid of these goddam people in the halls and cubicles who are subtracting from the FAT UNEARNED BONUSES we intend to pay ourselves.

ED COLLIGAN: RESIGN! Have some balls!

RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 9:08:14 AM # Q
>>>Or have they adopted Android?

If they did, someone call the authorities. That would be a clear case of child abuse!

RE: Officially Confirmed by Palm
hkklife @ 12/13/2007 12:44:37 PM # Q
Past history of Palm + current evidence basically points to a 2008 strategy of attempting to coast through the year by riding their final few Garnet devices (CDMA Centro, GSM Centro, 755p) and a handful of rebadged GSM "me-too" devices plus the flagship 800w (supposedly developed in-house by Palm).

I also wouldn't be surprised to see a 2nd generation Treo 500 (550w?) release later on in the year with the addition of a US-friednly quad band radio and a mute/ring switch. It could be marketed as Palm's Q-competitor (basically, a CDMA WM equivalent of the Centro).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Paging Ben Combee

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 11:59:40 AM # Q
Let's see how fats Ben Combee gets back to blogging.

Hey, Combee! Blog it, baby!

RE: Paging Ben Combee
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 12:00:19 PM # Q
Oops. FAST, not fats.


Grrr... my checksums aren't working...

RE: Paging Ben Combee
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 12:09:22 PM # Q
I recently started wearing glasses for reading (well post-50yo, so at least I held out that long).

However, ever since wearing them regularly for use with computers, etc, I've found myself very consistently making dyslexic-type typos - fats/fast, indeed.


RE: Paging Ben Combee
bcombee @ 12/13/2007 12:40:07 PM # Q
Sorry, still at Palm, still working hard on the next gen stuff. And I do blog, just not about secret stuff :)

RE: Paging Ben Combee
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 12:51:53 PM # Q
Two-in-one reply:

>>>However, ever since wearing them regularly for use with computers, etc, I've found myself very consistently making dyslexic-type typos - fats/fast, indeed.

I need reading glasses for books and paper. Not for the screen. Letters drop or get garbled in transmission from brain to fingers. They'll name this syndrome after me. After all, am I not its greatest practitioner?

>>>Sorry, still at Palm, still working hard on the next gen stuff. And I do blog, just not about secret stuff :)

Well, Ben, glad to see you've still got a job. Hey, with so many empty cubicles over there now, is the carpeting thick enough to stifle echoes?

RE: Paging Ben Combee
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 1:07:22 PM # Q
> ...I need reading glasses for books and paper. Not for the screen...

My bifocal glasses are set to have the top part focus at stiff-arm's length and the bottom part at bent-arm's length. I don't wear them (nor need any) for anything further away than a few feet.

RE: Paging Ben Combee
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 1:10:58 PM # Q
Bifocals?! You paid real money for glasses?! Mine are $1 plastic. (My god, made in China! Maybe I am getting lead poisoning in da hedd!!!)

RE: Paging Ben Combee
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 1:19:28 PM # Q
> ...You paid real money for glasses?!...

No, Spousie's insurance did, I think.

I think I paid for the special coating, though, which turned out to be a mistake since it makes them hard to clean.


RE: Paging Ben Combee
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 1:21:04 PM # Q
> ...Maybe I am getting lead poisoning in da hedd!!!...

Nah, ya don't get that from glasses anymore.

Now you get that from hanging Christmas lights.

-- http://cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/12/10/christmas.lights/index.html?iref=newssearch

RE: Paging Ben Combee
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 1:22:10 PM # Q
>>>No, Spousie's insurance did, I think.

Oh, so YOU are the reason insurance is so expensive! That's it, just think of yourself.

You could've spent a buck!

So to review here at PIC:

We have one guy with fat bratwurst fingers

We have another guy whose eyes have gold irises...

(ROTFLMAO!)

RE: Paging Ben Combee
IHateEdandJeff @ 12/13/2007 5:55:44 PM # Q
Hey Ben,

Ed must LOVE you for having that ASUS Foolio killer!! Did they ax Marc Blank? I bet that Eddy was seeing his true colors with e-mail slogging along and not meeting deadlines!

RE: Paging Ben Combee
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 6:00:15 PM # Q
More importantly and to the point, did they ax the entire PalmOS team?

And, if not, why not?

Reply to this comment

RESIGN, Colligan!!

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 12:48:46 PM # Q
From the WSJ article:

>>>"I knew I couldn't turn the company around by myself," says Mr. Colligan, 46, who has been Palm's CEO since 2004. "I needed a partner on the tech front who could change the dynamics of our development team."

No, Ed. You need to GO AWAY. Time for the grown-ups to take over.

And:

>>>"There was a perception our products had gotten a little stale," says Mr. Colligan. "We'll break out of that."

A LITTLE STALE?!!? A PERCEPTION?!!?

How frikkin retarded ARE you, man?!

Here, Ed, just copy and paste this template so you can get the hell out of everyone's way:

=====================

Dear Chairman and Board of Directors of Palm, Inc.:

It is with some regret that I hereby tender my resignation effective immediately.

Please don't hit me.

Signed,

Ed Colligan

====================

Do it!

RE: RESIGN, Colligan!!
wildmantrader @ 12/13/2007 1:03:46 PM # Q
LOL...he may want Donna to spank him.
RE: RESIGN, Colligan!!
IHateEdandJeff @ 12/13/2007 5:58:11 PM # Q
He's got O.J. denial going on!!!
Reply to this comment

This is how sad Palm has gotten...

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 12:55:05 PM # Q
From that WSJ article (for god's sake, Murdoch, drop the paywall when you take over!!!) --

>>>In mid-July, as Palm Inc. was putting the finishing touches on its new $99 Centro smart phone, the gadget's development team received a stark message: It wasn't good enough.

>>>The warning was delivered by Jon Rubinstein, a former top Apple Inc. executive who this year joined Palm as executive chairman with a directive from Palm Chief Executive Ed Colligan to shake up the struggling smart-phone maker. Mr. Rubinstein wasn't happy with the Centro's final touches, so he ordered several Palm executives to get on a plane to Asia to work more closely with the company's contract manufacturers. He asked product managers to look at details that hadn't been discussed before, such as whether the Centro's keyboard could be easily viewed in bright sunlight.

I mean, WTF?! It took a STRANGER to tell them that?! Where is their inside expertise?!

Hey, Rubenstein, do you like PDAs at all?! Someone give him a LifeDrive (oh I am so cruel!).

Reply to this comment

Ed Colligan speaks

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 1:20:07 PM # Q
Old YouTube clip from BBC Click:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nN5pIiGW5Tc

Note that key sentence: "There will *always* be dedicated organizers."

Not at **$100 above** their value, Ed!

Reply to this comment

The Palm Story, in video

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 1:25:35 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

Over 200 engineers go POOF!

mikecane @ 12/13/2007 2:43:22 PM # Q
Just read that on Twittervision.

Now you too can be the NSACIAFBI!

http://twittervision.com

RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 3:32:39 PM # Q
Good lord! What the hell is THAT!?


RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 4:20:27 PM # Q
You can eavesdrop on all the vain eejits who have their Twitter accounts set to broadcast to ANYONE.

Banal yet hypnotic...

RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
SeldomVisitor @ 12/13/2007 4:34:31 PM # Q
I am missing the utility of it, have to admit.

RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
mikecane @ 12/13/2007 7:19:41 PM # Q
It's as close as we mortals will get to Warren Ellis' Global Frequency.

RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
freakout @ 12/15/2007 4:49:21 PM # Q
^^ Ugh. If we have to rely on the Twitter userbase to monitor the government's secret projects then us mortals are doomed, I'd say...
RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
mikecane @ 12/15/2007 4:56:47 PM # Q
>>>^^ Ugh. If we have to rely on the Twitter userbase to monitor the government's secret projects then us mortals are doomed, I'd say...

No, we have to monitor the threats to this country. Obviously the NSACIAFBI can't do a damned thing right.

NSACIAFBI: RESIGN!

WAY-OT: RE: Over 200 engineers go POOF!
SeldomVisitor @ 12/15/2007 5:35:45 PM # Q
> ...No, we have to monitor the threats to this country. Obviously
> the NSACIAFBI can't do a damned thing right...

In Chantilly is a set of Big Blue Spy Buildings:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=38.88193,-77.45092&spn=0.007517,0.01075&t=h&z=17&om=1

When those buildings were being built a number of years back, there was a BIG professional internally lit sign marking them as "Rockwell International". After someone in Congress screamed bloody murder about the CIA (I think) spending $300 million to build them secretly did they take that sign down and replace it with another saying "National Reconnaissance Office".

http://ludb.clui.org/ex/i/VA3142/

The spy business is fun.

Reply to this comment

From a purported ex-minion

SeldomVisitor @ 12/14/2007 3:15:26 PM # Q
RE: From a purported ex-minion
VampireLestat @ 12/15/2007 10:04:52 AM # Q
Many companies end up falling like that.
I myself experienced a company where all the kiss-ass 'go out and party with those in power' people continually get promoted to often jobs that have to be created out of thin air.

The company ends up with a bunch of management and middle-management people fighting and backstabbing one another over petty issues, pride and power trips. Meanwhile, all the "worker bees", the real value to any company are let go. Then the company fails, the managerial people and snobs start pointing fingers and then company goes bankrupt.

Solution is to hire people who do work that directly impacts sales, product value and customer satisfaction, then build them, keep them, value them long term through thick and thin.

No company should ever forget where there pay check comes from. ME! and all the other Palm consumers like myself.

Palm... PLEASE FOCUS...
New PDAs, new form factors, OLED, an improved Palm OS, and yes of course new phones and PDA-phones. Get to work!

RE: From a purported ex-minion
mikecane @ 12/15/2007 11:30:39 AM # Q
Hey, you. You're supposed to end every PIC post just like me:

COLLIGAN: RESIGN!!!

RE: From a purported ex-minion
SeldomVisitor @ 12/15/2007 12:14:39 PM # Q
At this point in time I see no value to Colligan resigning except for a transient stock price pop - and THAT is a very thin "maybe".

Seriously, what's a new CEO gonna do that would be exciting and SAVING for PALM?

As far as I can see, the BEST a new CEO could do would be to gut the company down to the bare minimum, reorient it TOTALLY to some ephemeral new platform set of communicating devices, and act like a just-IPOed money loser until that could be brought to market.

And the problem with THAT train of thought is PALM now has $400 million in debt with antsy creditors so doing THAT is probably not possible.

So I don't see any benefit in canning Colligan other than transient satisfaction for a few.

RE: From a purported ex-minion
Surur @ 12/15/2007 12:28:29 PM # Q
I think getting rid of the founders will get in people who will run the company like a business, instead of their own little ego-trip plaything.

Just look at the Foleo as an example of what founder hubris can lead to. They think they are geniuses when they just lucked out last time.

RE: From a purported ex-minion
mikecane @ 12/15/2007 4:55:26 PM # Q
>>>So I don't see any benefit in canning Colligan other than transient satisfaction for a few.

He pays for his crimes. Justice is served.

And yeah, that above comment made me think. Maybe even Hawkins and Dubinsky should be dumped. Clean house.

Colligan: RESIGN!

Reply to this comment

Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?

mikecane @ 12/15/2007 4:53:35 PM # Q
Canalys, Symbian: Apple iPhone Already Leads Windows Mobile in US Market Share, Q3 2007
http://tinyurl.com/39lrju

>>>Colligan Laughs Off iPhone Competition

>>>“We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.’”

http://tinyurl.com/2unon7

Whether it's PalmOS or WinMob, Colligan can't win.

Colligan: RESIGN!

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/15/2007 11:45:22 PM # Q
McDonald's outlets outnumber gourmet restaurants, but that doesn't make them taste better.
RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
nastebu @ 12/16/2007 2:20:57 PM # Q
freak, the killer is that the iPhone is much more expensive. In this case, the very expensive gormet food is attracting lines while McDonalds gathers cobwebs.

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/16/2007 3:35:36 PM # Q
^^ Expensive != gourmet, just as popularity != quality.
RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
abosco @ 12/16/2007 4:40:11 PM # Q
So, at exactly what point are you going to admit that the iPhone is a useful smartphone? When Palm runs out of money? Because I gotta tell you, that seems to be approaching awful quick.

You're always making innuendos when the iPhone outperforms, and then making excuses when Palm underperforms.

You're a ****ing fanboy. Get over yourself.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
abosco @ 12/16/2007 4:59:28 PM # Q
Oh, and the following freakout reply will be a pseudo-gay remark containing the words love, adore, and some kissy smiley faces, which is really just a smoke-and-mirrors trick a-la Palm in order to divert attention away from the fact that he really has no evidence to back up his claims that the iPhone is an inferior smartphone.

Just give up. You've shown that no matter how pathetic Palm gets, there is always someone (freakout) MORE pathetic and willing to suck up to them.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/16/2007 5:03:34 PM # Q
So, at exactly what point are you going to admit that the iPhone is a useful smartphone? When Palm runs out of money?

Palm running out of money isn't going to change the fact the iPhone is an overpriced toy.

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/16/2007 5:36:54 PM # Q
he really has no evidence to back up his claims that the iPhone is an inferior smartphone

*Inferior virtual keyboard
*Inferior thumb-swipe unlocking (I'd rather just press one button I could feel in my sleep, thanks.)
*No 3G
*No "Select All" in email. (Delete all? )
*No cut-and-paste
*No official third-party app support
*No MMS
*No video recording
*No removable battery
*No hangup button
*No unlocked version
*Attracts fingerprints like I attract women (as in it's covered in them)
*Has a bug where you can't play music and surf the web at the same time without random crashes.


Sorry, you were saying? I'm at work now so I've probably missed a couple...

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
nastebu @ 12/17/2007 11:11:21 AM # Q
Freak, an honest question. If say, half, of those objections are elminitated in the January/Febrary updates, would you change your assessment of the iPhone? Just curious.

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
mikecane @ 12/17/2007 2:47:33 PM # Q
*No official third-party app support

-- you are still leaning on that corpse of an excuse? Especially with Palm blaming *official* 3rd-party apps for all their OS's shortcomings and bugs?

*No MMS

http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/07/13/reference-how-to-send-mms-on-an-iphone/

*No video recording

-- I recently posted about that here on PIC. Givitup.

*No removable battery

-- yawn.

*No hangup button

-- say what?! How many bellybuttons do you have? You seem to love buttons. Did you buy a Kindle? Does that have enough buttons for you?

*No unlocked version

-- say what?

*Attracts fingerprints like I attract women (as in it's covered in them)

-- in your frikkin dreams do you attract women. And even those dreams turn out not to be wet.

Oh the flaiings of a fanboi is a hilarious thing to see...

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/17/2007 5:25:33 PM # Q
Freak, an honest question. If say, half, of those objections are elminitated in the January/Febrary updates, would you change your assessment of the iPhone?

Absolutely. But I bet they won't be.

Mike:
*No hangup button

-- say what?! How many bellybuttons do you have? You seem to love buttons. Did you buy a Kindle? Does that have enough buttons for you?

I just figure anyone who makes a phone without a hangup button is an idiot. I'm a simple man, I admit.

Kindle's cool but also looks like something from 1980's. An era of great music, but not great gadget design...

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
nastebu @ 12/18/2007 8:57:25 AM # Q
Absolutely. But I bet they won't be.

Freak, just for fun, how about a bet? Lets delete from your list the three which are either non-issues or purely personal taste, and add a couple more issues that are indisputably flaws in the device, and see what happens.

These three are not real to me:

*Attracts fingerprints like I attract women (as in it's covered in them)
*Inferior thumb-swipe unlocking (I'd rather just press one button I could feel in my sleep, thanks.)
*No hangup button

That's just personal taste or a non-issue in the case of the fingerprints. On the other hand, I'll add two more real issues...

1. no todos
2. no week-view in the calendar

Both of these, plus the lack of third party applications, to me, make the thing pretty much a wash. How about we bet five of the following flaws will be fixed by Feb 28?

3. Inferior virtual keyboard [This needs to be better defined. Why is the virtual keyboard inferior? What would fix it?]
4. No 3G
5. No "Select All" in email. (Delete all? )
6. No cut-and-paste
7. No official third-party app support
8. No MMS
9. No video recording
*No removable battery
*No unlocked version
*Has a bug where you can't play music and surf the web at the same time without random crashes.


RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
Poopie @ 12/18/2007 4:50:17 PM # Q
Freakout: people can adapt to differences. Nothing's perfect, but your list assumes that each of your items are equally weighted, and that there is no solution or workaround. Many of these are just a matter of your personal preference.

* inferior virtual keyboard - your preference. I counter with superior physical display and better resolution
* inferior thumb swipe unlocking - your preference. How many power buttons on my palms broke? How many hacks did I install to keep my Palms from turning on in my pocket?
* no 3g - assumes all Palm phone and PDA users have 3g - they don't. Sure, I'd love 3g, but I've learned to deal with the bandwidth I have quite well. I love my flat-rate data plan, too.
* no 'select all' in email - I have a number of gripes about iPhone email - I wish I could turn the transition graphics off and delete messages a light speed instead of watching them go in the trash... but... really... if you're trying to state that the iPhone is not a good smartphone for email, Palm/Versamail users are living in a glass house and should not throw stones.
* no cut and paste - you're right, this sucks
* no official 3rd party support - true, but you keep conveniently ignoring the hacker community, an upcoming SDK release, and the vast amount of worthless abandon/crap-ware for Palm, or ever worse... the vast amount of 3rd party apps that actually *CAUSE* problems on Palm devices. My iPhone is way more stable than any recent Palm devices I've owned.
* no mms - I call utter bullshit here yet again. I've never sent an mms! My sister and mom wouldn't know how to send an mms to save their life. Why would anyone really care about mms when they have real email? Why don't you complain about the lack of T9 support in the iphone? Why not complain about lack of a crummy WAP browser? Why not complain about lack of J2ME? Why don't you complain about the lack of a hole where you can reset the iphone with a pin? Why don't you complain about the lack of a cheap vinyl case, or a 2.5mm audio plug, or an athena connector?
* No video recording - nice to have, I admit, but certainly not a deal breaker, and many many palms were shipped that had no camera or had no default video recording app
* No removable battery - I've never replaced a battery in any of my palm devices because I always ended up buying a newer, better, faster model before my battery completely died. The only benefit I've ever received from a removable phone battery has been to rapidly reset a hung device.
* No hangup button - your preference - you mean to say no hard button for hangup. There's a button on the screen.
* No unlocked version - for most people, this doesn't impact their use of the device, and if they care, there are ways to get an unlocked one -- as is the case with nearly every phone.
* Attracts fingerprints - everything does. I actually find the flatness of the device makes it easy to clean on a pants leg, as opposed to a recessed screen, and don't get me started on screen protectors or scratched input areas from over-zealous stylus wielding.
* has a bug... - Oh no he didn't... you didn't just claim that PalmOS was better because you found a bug in the iPhone, did you? How many ugly bugs are there in Garnet that remain unfixed after YEARS?! How many Palm application developers go out of their way to work around unfixed OS bugs?


USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

RE: Where's your Treo god now, sniveling fanboi?
freakout @ 12/18/2007 5:11:38 PM # Q
Freakout: people can adapt to differences.

Sure. I don't dispute that.

But Bosco accused me of having "no evidence" for my personal belief that iPhone is inferior. I produced 13 pieces of 'evidence'. Not all of them will stick in the minds of everybody, but some will.

Long and short, I'm just saying what I always have: it's not perfect. Plenty of evidence for that. Certainly doesn't make you a Palm fanboy just to say Apple didn't get it right.

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