MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Palm TX Handheld Review

Palm TX handheld reviewPalm released the Palm TX handheld. The Palm TX features dual wireless with both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, a large high resolution display and 128 MB of memory, all priced at $299. Read on for the full review.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (388 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

Sweet!!

Mr T @ 10/12/2005 12:14:17 AM # Q
I think this will be a success. I know I'll be buying one first thing tommorrow. Plus first post....

RE: Sweet!!
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 12:33:40 AM # Q
If I didn't already have a Treo 650, I'd buy one of these tomorrow

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Sweet!!
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 1:10:03 AM # Q
Damn, and it looks *great*... :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: Sweet!!
Tamog @ 10/12/2005 2:33:49 AM # Q
Hi People,
I'd get one immediately IF I knew that it didnt have a:
a)Buzzing screen(all OS5 palms)
b)Breaking case(IIIc)
c)Non-working power button(TE flaw)
d)SUDS
Anyways, lets see how much they get working right away-I am pretty pessimistic after the tenth exchange for my T3!
Best regards
Tam Hanna

RE: Sweet!!
svrontis @ 10/12/2005 2:58:26 AM # Q
Nice review, Ryan. How long have you had to play with this baby?

2 years 2 late 2 matter...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2005 3:50:36 AM # Q
File this away under the category "Too little, too late". These are the kind of specs that should have been released by Palm in... 2003.

And young Mr. Hanna correctly raises the ominous spectre of Palm's stunning lack of quality potentially being the kiss of death for this PDA. Then again, horrible quality didn't exactly hurt sales of the Tungsten E, did it? But I wonder how many repeat sales were lost by Palm because so many customers ended up getting fed up with Palm's quality control problems with the TE...

Ryan, I hope you plan to come back and do an addendum to this "review" after you've had time to thoroughly evaluate it. It seems that in the rush to "review" PDAs the day they are released, most sites have sacrificed the kind of detail that purchasers need to make informed decisions. Most times that updated reviews are promised, they never seem to materialize.


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Sweet!!
AdamaDBrown @ 10/12/2005 4:08:05 AM # Q
I'd get one immediately IF I knew that it didnt have a:
a)Buzzing screen(all OS5 palms)

The buzzing is really a product of the display, not of the OS or hardware. My T|X is perfectly silent. Others may buzz, depending on what screens they have. Nor is the problem limited to Palm OS, I used to have an Axim X3i that screamed like a banshee, but my other Axims are quiet.

RE: Sweet!!
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 4:34:08 AM # Q
> "...File this away under the category 'Too little, too late'..."

If by "this" you mean your post, actually it will be filed under "Voice-of-Dumbness is spreading FUD, ignore as usual".

I mean, really. You're such a moron. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Sweet!!
parambyte @ 10/12/2005 6:41:37 AM # Q
nice set.
just curious...is it VERY much complicated and expensive for Palm to add a cell phone capability to a lovely device like this? for me, i would much rather have EDGE/GPRS on this than WiFi. Because that way I can throw away my mobile phone, and use T/X for full internet/email/chat ANYWHERE i go, always carrying one with me, not having to look for WiFi Zones.
Or maybe Palm should offer a variant Either with WiFi or with EDGE/GPRS

best would be both, but the price would be unattractive, I guess...

RE: Sweet!!
twrock @ 10/12/2005 6:43:46 AM # Q
'd get one immediately IF I knew that it didnt have a:
a)Buzzing screen(all OS5 palms)

What AdamaDBrown said, and....
warpSpeed completely eliminated the extremely loud whine coming out of my T2. Recently I also replace the digitizer on the same T2 and had the noise reduced by over 90% without warpSpeed activated (i.e. I have to have it close to my ear in a quite room to hear any noise).

And I completely agree with the original post subject: Sweet!! I'm looking forward to getting one next month when it is released here with the bundled Chinese OS.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: Sweet!!
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 7:43:41 AM # Q
just curious...is it VERY much complicated and expensive for Palm to add a cell phone capability to a lovely device like this? for me, i would much rather have EDGE/GPRS on this than WiFi. Because that way I can throw away my mobile phone, and use T/X for full internet/email/chat ANYWHERE i go, always carrying one with me, not having to look for WiFi Zones.
Or maybe Palm should offer a variant Either with WiFi or with EDGE/GPRS

That, would be a Treo.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

RE: Sweet!!
craigdts @ 10/12/2005 7:52:43 AM # Q
Dang,

Now I'm really tempted to get one of these at $299. I've got a 650, but would love to have that to surf the web on at home or read before going to bed.

Good job Palm.

RE: Sweet!!
fishtastic @ 10/12/2005 8:57:13 AM # Q
A bit too late, I've ordered a XDA EXEC (Universal) to replace my aged Treo 600. It will be my first Win Mobile machine, a dark day indeed..........

If Palm produces something worthwhile I'll be back to Palm but I don't see anything worthwhile on the horizon, this T/X isn't the dog's knackers that the Exec is.

Fish

RE: Sweet!!
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 8:58:07 AM # Q
"The buzzing is really a product of the display, not of the OS or hardware."

The display is part of the hardware. Duh.

Bargain PDA says its Bluetooth 1.2

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 9:08:21 AM # Q
Unles Palm supports all of the new profiles etc of BT 1.2 (and wouldn't Ryan have mentioned it if they did?) then what would be the point of it?

Isn't the .1 Bluetooth upgrade something that can be done via software, if executed properly?

This is a nice machine but still too late. Dropping the price down to $250ish makes it MUCH more palatable, however.



RE: Sweet!!
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:01:46 AM # Q
HKK,

Dropping it to $50 makes it wildly popular! At $299 Palm has actually woken from a slumber. This is a very strong hardware set at that price and I pinch myself to make sure I'm awake in saying it. This will compete veeeery strongly with anything from Dell or HP at around $300.

I'm actually impressed. I expected Palm to pull a $399 stunt with a free ferrit or something. This is the first thing to loosen up my fingers a bit from my T3.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Sweet!!
onestar @ 10/12/2005 11:33:02 AM # Q
It looks gorgeous, and it's very attractive.

I'll miss the USB drive mode, but that's a minor details.

Looks like I might have to save up my pennies...

One by one, the penguins are stealing my sanity.

2 years 2 late?!! Uh noo....
gfunkmagic @ 10/12/2005 5:14:10 PM # Q
>>>>>File this away under the category "Too little, too late". These are the kind of specs that should have been released by Palm in... 2003...

I don't think soo... First of all, in 2003, there is no way the Tx could have been priced at sub $300 price point!!! That is the most attractive feature of the device. Heck, none of the main competitors of the Tx in the market place TODAY (i.e, the iPAQ rx1950 and lowest end Axim x51) include features like wifi and HVGA screen. So if the PPC competition does not even offer comparable features at this price point NOW, how can Palm possibly be late to the party?

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 5:24:32 PM # Q
Pat;

Someone (MacMall?) is already selling the TX for $279.99 or so. By Christmas I am sure we'll be able to pick this thing up nearly everywhere online for that price or even a bit above $250. Rememeber the famous Office Depot $100 PDA mail-in rebate? Imagine that one coming around again later this year and mated to a TX?

$250-$10 OD in-store coupon-$50 MIR---$140 & change net cost!
It could easily happen! I got my first LD with the $100 MIR and a $15 in-store coupon! Never sent in the rebate 'cause the LD ended up being such a pig but that's another story...

RE: Sweet!!
waltonfc @ 10/12/2005 6:50:39 PM # Q
way too little too late I have a t3 515 and a 500 I've been waiting for wifi and more memory I also have tomtom navigator and wireless keyboard several cables and 3 cradles. I wanted to upgrade but palm has changed the universal plug so nothing will work with all my stuff. The battery will not hold a charge so I bought a new one (third party because palm just dosesnt care enough)it holds a charge for an hour and a half. I think the t5 was a joke that was made for new palm market entrys and now its too late. I have decided to fore go my hundreds of dollars of software and accessories and I'm going with axim x51v. Anybody interested in the stuff i mentioned above plus ptunes office to go 7 aol sheets to go palmreader pro and a lot more let me know. not to mention the t3 itself although i may give that to my daughter.

This is my third palm unit and I have invested heavyly and stuck with the Palm name
RE: Sweet!!
arp @ 10/12/2005 7:26:07 PM # Q
Now if only it had integrated GPS and 3g... It would be my perfect PDA... :(

--
http://www.arpx.net/article.php/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps
RE: Sweet!!
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 7:31:13 PM # Q
> "...if the PPC competition does not even offer comparable features at this price point NOW, how can Palm possibly be late to the party?...

Hilarious! :)

I can imagine the scene at the command center in Redmond this morning, Bill Gates whining, "Stevie, why do they have better PDAs than us?", and Steve Ballmer bitching that Bill should never have dropped all that cash on Palm to build him a Treo with a start button... :)

I wonder if Bill will ask Palm to make him a Palm T|X with wince on it... :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Sour!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2005 10:22:05 AM # Q
>>>>>File this away under the category "Too little, too late". These are the kind of specs that should have been released by Palm in... 2003...


I don't think soo... First of all, in 2003, there is no way the Tx could have been priced at sub $300 price point!!! That is the most attractive feature of the device. Heck, none of the main competitors of the Tx in the market place TODAY (i.e, the iPAQ rx1950 and lowest end Axim x51) include features like wifi and HVGA screen. So if the PPC competition does not even offer comparable features at this price point NOW, how can Palm possibly be late to the party?


Who said anything about price? You did, simply to obfuscate. The TX is late because the competition (several Windows Mobile/PPC models and the CLIE TH55 + UX50) has had dual wireless for several YEARS already. VGA screens have been around for a while as well. The fact that - on the surface - the TX appears to offer a lot for its price point doesn't change the fact that Palm is very late in offering this combination of features in a SINGLE device.

Try not to Kirvinize like you frequently do, Bubba.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/14/2005 11:06:19 PM # Q
I think it's time Ryan put the smack down on a PIC mod (or two) as well as the good Dr.

Say what you will, TVOR's attacks are (USUALLY) tongue in cheek and ALWAYS backed by well-written wit and well-founded arguments/cases/opinions about the mobile computing industry.

Those that retaliate to said commentary usually end up throwing the same kind of tantrum they claim to be railing against.

There's a difference between tongue-in-cheek J.C. Dvorakisms (if you don't know, don't ask) and outright name-calling.

TX Update:
Still running strong. Battery life hangs in there pretty well w/ low brightness (dimmest level) and BT on. D-pad is a definite improvement over the T5/T|E clones. Wi-fi really drags it down, even faster than on the LD IIRC. Case resists fingerprints remarkably well. Screen is "rougher" than previous Palms I've used. Good feedback with & without a screen protector on.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->IIIc-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->T|T5-->TX

Censorship
e-tellurian @ 10/14/2005 11:40:09 PM # Q
Not a good use for a ship. Perhaps from past experiences with e-t we could enhance these thoughts too.

Perhaps in the near future we will have the choice to assure ones thoughts are not misused by offering the choice to interact with IT (internet technology) that efficiently and from any PC on the globe offers accountability to ones thoughts securely.

This will aid with the assumption issue vs facts not obtained from the individual and in some cases paid for without any sharing of the wealth with the group that owen their thoughts. Not too accurate when the information has not been veted by the originator(s) of the thoughts.

Just some thoughts to save time and money at a later date.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

RE: Sweet!!
twrock @ 10/15/2005 12:00:59 AM # Q
Say what you will, TVOR's attacks are (USUALLY) tongue in cheek and ALWAYS backed by well-written wit and well-founded arguments/cases/opinions about the mobile computing industry.

I really don't understand this at all. So I can post whatever trash I want to if somehow it can be perceived to be "tongue in cheek"? Give me a break. The trash is still trash no matter how many gallons of perfume you think were thrown on it.

I would ask Ryan to hold everyone to exactly the same standard no matter who they are or what they do for a living/hobby. Just because TVOR is an anonymous poster with a bit of wit and some thoughtful insight shouldn't give him any more leeway when it comes to "moderation" (censorship) than the Palmsource employee or a PIC moderator. How about simply being even-handed?

The only difference I can see is simply one of history. TVOR has a boatload of it. How many times has he violated the posting guidelines? How deep into the "cesspool" has he delved in his attacks? How many times has Ryan had to come in and wipe his "crap" off the front page?

Now, compare gfunkmagic.

hkklife, you appear to be quite one-sided in your quickness to judge here. Please show me some evidence that I am wrong, and I will readily admit as much. Please show me where instead of defending TVOR, you have asked Ryan to censor "him".

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/15/2005 12:23:22 AM # Q
If someone (I use the term in the plural and directed at no particular individual) bring AS much compelling reading/insider info to the table, then, for better or worse, some people are going to wade through the detritus and enjoy reading the "good stuff". This perfectly sumarizes my feelings on TVOR's wit/insight. Look at it this way--would you rather have a raging Charles Barkley (volatile MVP talent) on your roster or a mild-mannered bench warmer who brings nothing of merit to the table?

Yes, I'd appreciate it if he/she spent MUCH less time making jabs at people and spent more time doing the kind of commentary only he/she is capable of (where's that NZ90 vs. LifeDrive comparison, btw?). Even I can only take so many "bubba" jokes per day.

That said, Ryan is being asked to do an impossible task (police each and every user/post on PIC) and has to strike a balance between heavy-handed censorship and running a fairly liberal site. If you cannot trust one of your mods to keep the situation under control then who to turn to??

Basically, Gfunk is a mod, first and foremost. Voice isn't a moderator and therefore doesn't need to be held to such a high standard. I have to admit being disappointed seeing Gfunk going off on such a tirade as I had thought him above such silly rampaging.

I've never asked Ryan to delete anyone's comments--good, bad, or otherwise.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->IIIc-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Sweet!!
twrock @ 10/15/2005 12:26:19 AM # Q
And, E-T, you are truly amazing.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/15/2005 12:32:06 AM # Q
ET's post was about the quickest smothering of a flame-post war I've ever seen on this or any other site. It was quite...ambiguously timely.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->IIIc-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Chunky-Chewy!!! Spunky-Funky!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/15/2005 7:17:00 AM # Q
Say what you will, TVOR's attacks are (USUALLY) tongue in cheek and ALWAYS backed by well-written wit and well-founded arguments/cases/opinions about the mobile computing industry.

Thanks, hkklife. It's nice to see there's at least ONE person reading that's intelligent enough to "get it".

Those that retaliate to said commentary usually end up throwing the same kind of tantrum they claim to be railing against.

Ironic, isn't it? I especially love the egregious hypocrisy of Jeff Kirvin. He comes to PIC and spews the type of insults that he would immediately sanctimoniously BAN people for saying on the sites that he moderates. Go figure.

There's a difference between tongue-in-cheek J.C. Dvorakisms (if you don't know, don't ask) and outright name-calling.

Unfortunately, some people are just too clueless to figure that out.

TX Update:
Still running strong. Battery life hangs in there pretty well w/ low brightness (dimmest level) and BT on. D-pad is a definite improvement over the T5/T|E clones. Wi-fi really drags it down, even faster than on the LD IIRC. Case resists fingerprints remarkably well. Screen is "rougher" than previous Palms I've used. Good feedback with & without a screen protector on.

hkklife, can you install a battery monitoring app and post how long it takes to run the battery down in REAL WORLD use? Ideally post the average of 5 - 10 rundowns and what type of usage was involved (e.g. 10% Wi-Fi, 10% Bluetooth, etc.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

e_tellurian @ 10/14/2005 11:40:09 PM

Not a good use for a ship. Perhaps from past experiences with e-t we could enhance these thoughts too.

Perhaps in the near future we will have the choice to assure ones thoughts are not misused by offering the choice to interact with IT (internet technology) that efficiently and from any PC on the globe offers accountability to ones thoughts securely.

This will aid with the assumption issue vs facts not obtained from the individual and in some cases paid for without any sharing of the wealth with the group that owen their thoughts. Not too accurate when the information has not been veted by the originator(s) of the thoughts.

Just some thoughts to save time and money at a later date.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

Well said, E.T. But to digitize your thoughts (rather than simply posting the words representing the thoughts) is to remove all ambiguity. Like "Pat" from Saturday Night Live, sometimes ambiguity can be A Good Thing. Do you Senseher(his?)shape?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


where's that NZ90 vs. LifeDrive comparison, btw?

I only reviewed the VZ90. I would never buy that steaming pile of feces called the LifeDrive, so I could never offer any honest comparisons beyond what I've read and my brief exposures at Palm around the time it was launched/defecated.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I really don't understand this at all. So I can post whatever trash I want to if somehow it can be perceived to be "tongue in cheek"? Give me a break. The trash is still trash no matter how many gallons of perfume you think were thrown on it.

Only a fool would think I try to "perfume" my posts. And you need to stop taking posts to an Internet PDA fanboy/***irl site so seriously.

I would ask Ryan to hold everyone to exactly the same standard no matter who they are or what they do for a living/hobby.


Noble request. Will you volunteer to read (and moderate) EVERY post here? And then turn off readers with your heavy-handed approach?

Just because TVOR is an anonymous poster with a bit of wit and some thoughtful insight shouldn't give him any more leeway when it comes to "moderation" (censorship) than the Palmsource employee or a PIC moderator. How about simply being even-handed?

Indeed. Why should PalmSource employees like Marty Fouts and David Schlesinger be allowed to come here and post insults, trolls, misinformation and (the occasional) witty comment? Perhaps because censoring them would have deprived readers from some of the most entertaining threads ever seen on Palminfocenter? Go figure.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8026

The only difference I can see is simply one of history. TVOR has a boatload of it. How many times has he violated the posting guidelines? How deep into the "cesspool" has he delved in his attacks? How many times has Ryan had to come in and wipe his "crap" off the front page?

"Cesspool"? Please. Leave the hyperbole to my pal, Dianne Hackborne.

Now, compare gfunkmagic.

Spunka$$ is one of the most overly-sensitive, tragic Emokids on the Palm sites. He once whined to the moderators on another site that someone had "stolen" his avatar! Don't compare Spunkface to me - he is truly incomparable...

hkklife, you appear to be quite one-sided in your quickness to judge here. Please show me some evidence that I am wrong, and I will readily admit as much.

Do a search using "Marty Fouts, Palminfocenter, The Voice of Reason" or "David Schlesinger, Palminfocenter, The Voice of Reason". (Some of the most shocking posts were deleted so these PalmSource employees wouldn't get FIRED for running their mouths so inappropriately in a public forum.)

Please show me where instead of defending TVOR, you have asked Ryan to censor "him".

You really need to get a clue, Bubba.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Sweet!!
Strider_mt2k @ 10/15/2005 8:48:08 AM # Q
ET=HALON

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 10/15/2005 3:48:31 PM # Q
Voice;

Sorry for that typo above-I meant VZ90 (the FINAL Clie) instead of NZ90.

Did that review ever get posted here? If so I COMPLETELY missed it. Can you redirect me to an archived post of it?

And I didn't mean for there to be a head-to-head review--just hoping that the LD could be make to look like even more of a folly than it already has become when compared to other, more capable "traditional" handhelds (TX, T3 etc).

TX update:
Still running strong. I managed to make it crash ONCE-
it powered down whilst connected via BT. I immediately tried to power it back on several times (to no avail). I then waited a few seconds, hit the power button again and it reset.

The BT stack on the TX *IS NOT* as robust as on the T5 (patched or otherwise) and earier Palms!!

First potential deal-breaker:

It, like the LD, will NOT make a DUN connection via BT to my V710 Moto. Haven't had time to test it on an E815 yet. Since I am still mired in the remnants of a 2 year VZW contract I am going to have to either bite the bullet and get a new cell phone that works with the TX via BT, make do w/o BT DUN (not likely) or go back to my T5.

This is, as usual, the fault of both Palm (lazy) and Verizon (greedy). Moto had NOTHING to do with the crippled BT implementation on the V710 nor with the utter lack of CDMA BT phone drivers in FrankenGarnet. I don't expect Palm to be of any help from henceforth due to their great desire to sell Treos (specifically WinMob-powered Treos).

Hopefully the TX will end up being a strong-selling Palm and enough will wind up in the hands of enough hackers who will figure out some way to get this thing on crippled CDMA phones (Sprint actually does WORSE things to their BT phones than Verizon does!)

In summary:

T|T, T2, T3, Z72, T5: All worked fine on V710 and other CDMA phones for BT DUN. None could dial contact #s without hacking the V710's firmware.

LD: Dials phone nunbers via BT from Contact app but cannot establish or maintain a BT DUN connection

TX: Cannot dial phone numbers from Contacts OR estalibh a BT DUN connection

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Sweet!!
twrock @ 10/15/2005 9:19:35 PM # Q
Ok TVOR. I read your reply. I considered your points. But I couldn't come up with any valid reason to change my mind about anything I had written above. Whatever.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
ATTN: The Voice of Reason: Yet ANOTHER Palm deal-breaker
hkklife @ 10/15/2005 9:47:18 PM # Q
PIC forums (concerned users trying to help me out):

http://makeashorterlink.com/?P6FB14CFB


The apologists/PALMyannas come out in full force over @ Brighthand and offer no assistance:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?A50C21CFB


Can you believe it? Palm ALMOST got a handheld release right. And all it would take is a simple CDMA BT driver to rectify this issue. I am certain they'll do nothing and lose more customers over this "issue".

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Sweet!!
abosco @ 10/16/2005 4:51:50 PM # Q
Hey, here's an idea - relax.

We're talking about Palms, not religion, life, or your mother. There's no reason for anybody to get so offended and upset. There is also equally little reason to spend the majority of your internet time talking about how this new Palm offering isn't good enough.

I'd like to think this PDA is actually pretty good. Sure, Palm is about two years late to offering dual wireless to the market. That's not the point. The point is, they've got one out now, and it has undercut the competition in price for its offering. It's the first genuinely solid PDA I've seen from Palm (PalmOne/Palm|SG) since the T3, and before that, the m500.

Just think... hardly three years ago, three hundred bucks bought you an m130 and a 16MB SD card. Now we're looking at dual wireless, solid processor and memory, expansion, an arguably stable OS, and a great screen.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

Ryan: Update for the TX review???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/29/2005 5:00:24 PM # Q
A couple questions:

1) Can you give us some REAL WORLD #s re: how the TX battery performs? i.e. how many minutes does it last with

- Wi-Fi only?
- Bluetooth only?
- PDA only?
- MP3 only?

Also, is it true that like the T5 it only has around 3 MB of heap space? I'd be surprised if Palm limited it like that.


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Sweet!!
AdamaDBrown @ 10/30/2005 1:23:53 AM # Q
On the second question, as far as I know it's like the T5 in that it has something like 12-16 MB of RAM that's broken up into areas for app caching, heap, OS use, and so forth.

New T/X has no WiFi
lab_monkee_see_all @ 12/9/2005 7:56:48 AM # Q
Just bought one for my wife, and it did not have WiFi. It wasn't at the bottom of the screen next to to the bluetooth, it wasn't in the preferences, and there was no listing of .pdb or .prc files under "info".

Looks like I wasted my time again debugging, and troubleshooting for Palm. This bum unit goes back, and I'm hoping to get a refund!

Jose

Confused with T5?
Surur @ 12/9/2005 8:24:15 AM # Q

Are you sure you didn't buy a T5, which, accept for the color, looks exactly the same?

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Sweet!!
hkklife @ 12/9/2005 9:29:02 AM # Q
If it says "Palm" it's a TX. If it's the PalmOne branding, it's a T5.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Sweet!!
twizza @ 12/9/2005 2:35:36 PM # Q
With the T5 the heap space was increased with the 1.1 update. Made things a lot nicer, though my ladi's TX is faster app to app (I'll take the extra RAM over that any day though :D

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
Reply to this comment

Finally!

sandbuck @ 10/12/2005 12:17:50 AM # Q
Very nice.
RE: Finally!
4s @ 10/12/2005 12:18:55 AM # Q
Nice job. I love knowing I can come here at midnight and get the scoop.

<><
RE: Finally!
junglemike @ 10/12/2005 12:31:33 AM # Q
Anybody knows how much dynamic memory (dynamic heap ) TX has?


RE: Finally!
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 1:02:23 AM # Q
> "...how much dynamic memory (dynamic heap ) TX has?..."

128 - 100 = 28MB

:D

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Finally!
gfunkmagic @ 10/12/2005 1:14:30 AM # Q
>>>>128 - 100 = 28MB


Uh...no it's not that simple. The 28MB (128-100) is used to store various system files like the ROM image (compressed) on the Nand chip. The remaing 100MB is actually the storage heap that acts like ram on the device.

If the Tx is like other NVFS devices, then it should have 32MB of 'volitile' SDRAM of which half (assuming similar rom image size) should be taken up by the ROM image after it is decompressed from NAND. Another 6MB of this RAM is taken up by the "Dynamic Heap" and the remaning 10MB should be occupied by the DB cache to keep in sync with Nand. This is the similar architecture found on other NVFS devices by Palm fyi...

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Finally!
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 1:34:18 AM # Q
Learn something new every day. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: Finally!
Sam H @ 10/12/2005 8:17:08 PM # Q
Learn something new every day. :)

Too bad you're starting from such a low base. :)

Reply to this comment

Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)

Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 12:59:55 AM # Q
I'll be picking up one of these tomorrow...

Sucks to be a wince shill, huh? :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)
fierywater @ 10/12/2005 6:45:37 AM # Q
It's even better to enjoy both sides. Then you truly get everything.

RE: Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:07:05 AM # Q
fiery,

I hope that's PDAs you're talking about! :-0

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Oh my God -- it's 2 years 2 late!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2005 11:47:05 AM # Q
I hope that's PDAs you're talking about! :-0

What are YOU talking about, Reverend Horne?

;-O


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 12:04:47 PM # Q
VR, just making sure the comments stay in the banks of the river! :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)
fierywater @ 10/12/2005 3:31:11 PM # Q
PDAs? What in the hell would I talk about those for?

I was talking about PB&J.

RE: Oh my God -- it's a WINCE KILLER :)
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2005 9:21:42 AM # Q
That's what I thot. Don't ever bring Junk Food on this site again!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
PB&Jinfocenter.com?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2005 7:51:00 PM # Q
I was talking about PB&J.


Umm... yeah... that's what I thought you were talking about. But please post those comments to PB&Jinfocenter.com. PB&J posts are considered trolls here at Palminfocenter.com

Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming...


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Wow, it's Gadget christmas

I.M Anonymous @ 10/12/2005 1:31:26 AM # Q
Between Palm finally releasing a dual-wireless flagship model for under $300 (the same price as the V), the first color PDA under $100, and the rumored video iPod that Apple is supposed to announce later today, I'm going to have a tough time deciding where my next paycheck is going.

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas in New Orleans. NOT.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2005 4:08:50 AM # Q
I'm going to have a tough time deciding where my next paycheck is going.

How about donating it to victims of Hurricane Katrina Priorities... priorities... priorities...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
Jempen @ 10/12/2005 6:10:23 AM # Q
"How about donating it to victims of Hurricane Katrina Priorities... priorities... priorities..."

How about shut your f*ce, shut down your computer and go working as a volunteer in Kashmir. I hate the type of ignorance you carry.


Tungsten T|E, Tungsten T|3

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 7:46:24 AM # Q
How about donating it to victims of Hurricane Katrina Priorities... priorities... priorities... Uh huh. And how many people have already done that? I know I have, and I still keep some discretionary income for me and mine. I'm not Singer, damnit.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 10:42:18 AM # Q
Jempen @ 10/12/2005 6:10:23 AM
"How about donating it to victims of Hurricane Katrina Priorities... priorities... priorities..."
How about shut your f*ce, shut down your computer and go working as a volunteer in Kashmir. I hate the type of ignorance you carry.

Have you considered decaf?


RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 1:00:03 PM # Q
"And in recent news, microsoft's strugging wince division has unveiled their latest market-share campaign.

The exciting new 'Don't Buy A Device, Give Your Money To The Red Cross Instead' campaign will feature a massive, hugely-expensive advertising campaign targetting websites and print media dedicated to the competitive Palm and Symbian platforms.

When asked why microsoft didn't simply donate this massive advertising budget to those in need, a microsoft spokesman commented, 'Shut your face, pinko; we're just here to try to screw over the competition... oh, are you recording? I mean't to say, bill loves the poor, and he's thrilled to be helping those in need. Thankyou.'"

:)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
speak2u @ 10/12/2005 11:22:53 PM # Q
<"And in recent news, microsoft's strugging wince division has unveiled their latest market-share campaign.

The exciting new 'Don't Buy A Device, Give Your Money To The Red Cross Instead' campaign will feature a massive, hugely-expensive advertising campaign targetting websites and print media dedicated to the competitive Palm and Symbian platforms.

When asked why microsoft didn't simply donate this massive advertising budget to those in need, a microsoft spokesman commented, 'Shut your face, pinko; we're just here to try to screw over the competition... oh, are you recording? I mean't to say, bill loves the poor, and he's thrilled to be helping those in need. Thankyou.'">

I debated on whether or not to take the time to respond to this discussion but what the heck, slow tv night and I am stuck in a hotel so ......

I find it interesting at those who are of the mind to take shots at those that are so small they won't give away 100% of their income for whatever reason. Bill Gates, other than his house from what I have read does not lead an "high life" lifestyle and gives away huge sums of money - in an intelligent way of seed money rather than just writing a check and moving on. While not a big MS fan in some (PDA) areas, MS does employe people who get paid and spend that money and ahhh yes even give some of it away to help the unfortunate. Some of us, even those buying the new Gadgets do give away 10% or more, do volunteer work, go on missions trips to third world countries and use the evil gadgets to be more effective, get more done, and (ahh evil) make more money to be able to help more people. Would they (we) be better people if we went back to an stone tablet or even worse, a PalmIII? How dare you judge those you do not know or even more importantly mess up a perfectly good PDA discussion with this load of crap. Take to to this site: www.liberalweanies.com and they will be glad to respond.

Dr. Steve Lansing

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
Dr Opinion @ 10/13/2005 1:19:06 AM # Q
> "...How dare you [...] mess up a perfectly good PDA discussion with this load of crap...."

If by "this load of crap" you mean your post, well, you can hardly blame me for your lack of self-control, now can you? :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Wow, it's a COAL christmas. Again. Does Santa hate us?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2005 8:13:40 PM # Q
I think "Dr. Steve Lansing" needs to take a Valium. And then look up the definition of sarcasm. I guess not all "Doctors" have common sense. Pity.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
T. @ 10/14/2005 10:24:21 PM # Q
I.M Anonymous @ 10/12/2005 wrote:

"Between Palm finally releasing a dual-wireless flagship model for under $300 (the same price as the V), the first color PDA under $100, and the rumored video iPod that Apple is supposed to announce later today, I'm going to have a tough time deciding where my next paycheck is going."

You are obviously not married.

Could someone please explain to my wife how much she needs my used T3 to replace her aging Tungsten T so she will funnel back 3 bucks for the TX. I'll even give her the PTG sleds and Wifi card.



RE: Wow, it's Gadget christmas
twrock @ 10/15/2005 12:34:46 AM # Q
Not to suggest you actually do such a dastardly deed, but if somehow that T were to accidentally drop onto a very hard floor from a significant height, your old T3 might become a bit more attractive to her.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
Reply to this comment

Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!

gfunkmagic @ 10/12/2005 1:30:04 AM # Q
I am reposting this as per the similar thread I started in the forums:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28881

If you look at the specs and compare the Tx with the comparable Axim x51v at the $300 price point, Palm has been able to offer a device which is argueable a better BARGAIN than DELL!!

(Note: I AM COMPARING official MSRP's, not discounted or rebate prices!!)

Lets compare:

Palm Tx:
- 320 x 480 LCD
- built-in WiFi + Bluetooth
- 128MB of memory
- 312MHz processor
- SDIO expansion slot
- $300 price point!

Lowest End Dell Axim x51
- QVGA (240x320) LCD
- 416MHz processor
- BT only. NO WIFI!!
- 128MB ROM, 64MB SDRAM
- $342 bucks as of current post (w/2y warranty though)

Thus for ~$50 bucks less, the Tx has a higher rez screen and wifi! Plus even though the Tx has a slower 312Mhz proc, it will still be far zippier than the low end X51v and a 128MB Ram (NVFS) still goes alot farther than 128MB Rom on the PPC! That seems like a pretty sweet deal to me!

The only thing lacking of course is the lack of VR and vibrating alarms, and your personal platform preference of course! Overall though, I am suprised and pleased to see how Palm is taking on the competition like Dell head on with this price point. For the first time in a long time, I think it's fair to say that a Palm device may actually be a better deal than a comparable Dell PPC! That's pretty nice to see imo!

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 1:36:06 AM # Q
> "...a better BARGAIN than DELL..."

And remember that m$ effectively *pays* Dell to use wince...

This is a neat accomplishment by palm, and a fine looking device. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
fierywater @ 10/12/2005 6:49:05 AM # Q
Palm finally hit things up right, spec-wise and price-wise. I'm just scared of the quality. But I'll still probably be a moron and pick it up before any reports hit.

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 7:51:39 AM # Q
Palm finally hit things up right, spec-wise and price-wise. I'm just scared of the quality. But I'll still probably be a moron and pick it up before any reports hit.

Your comments further on up about the case quality are moot. This is the same superb case design as was used on the TE series and the T5. The III days were long ago...


"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 8:59:17 AM # Q
The T5 has superb case design? Funny. Cheap plasticky junk. This device is too little too late.

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 9:11:12 AM # Q
Aside from the glaring lack of a "home" button on the status bar, a charging LED and a voice (of Reason) recorder, the worst thing about this unit is its cheap and hideously amateurish looking plastic case. That said, it's the best execution yet of the T|E formfactor. That still does NOT mean I want to see it stick around for another year or two.



RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
dona83 @ 10/12/2005 10:54:03 AM # Q
Wutttt a black TX would go awesome with a black RAZR. Both plastic yes but they're still very sexy as heck. I mean look at all the actors and actresses out there some of them could be 10-100% plastic and we still think they're good looking. :)

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 11:01:57 AM # Q
hkklife wrote:
the glaring lack of a "home" button on the status bar

Home button is now a hard button. It's referred to on the website as the Home/Favorites button, so maybe if you hold it down it pops up a list of favorites.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 12:08:40 PM # Q
"Wutttt a black TX would go awesome with a black RAZR. Both plastic yes but they're still very sexy as heck. I mean look at all the actors and actresses out there some of them could be 10-100% plastic and we still think they're good looking. :"

The Razr is not plastic.

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
fierywater @ 10/12/2005 3:39:11 PM # Q
Your comments further on up about the case quality are moot. This is the same superb case design as was used on the TE series and the T5. The III days were long ago...

I know I must've made a bad post when I get confused with TVoR. :)

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 4:28:11 PM # Q
Home button: Yes, if you hold it down, the list of recent apps pops up.

Plastic case: This is much better for reception. If you'll notice, pretty much every Windows Mobile PDA has a plastic case. A metal case will interfere with the WiFi reception, and when you're touting that as one of the devices abilities... That's a no-go.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 8:33:39 PM # Q
> "... [almost] every Windows Mobile PDA has a plastic case..."

As does almost every mobile phone, for the same obvious reasons. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
Timothy Rapson @ 10/13/2005 8:44:03 AM # Q
The comparable Dell is the X51 mid-level at $400. Both have Wi-fi & Bluetooth. Both have about the same memory, same battery life, same features in most ways. The Dell has faster processor, but likely the same speed considering the OS differences. They each have comparable software included.

The Dell has a microphone, hot swappable battery, and CF slot.

The Palm has higher res.

The list price of the Axim is $400, but you can get one much cheaper waiting for the right offer. Same with the TX if you wait for Office Depot Delerium Days when they offer those $100 rebates. But overall, the Palm is $100 less list. That is a big difference if you want exactly those features, no more and no less.

Am I missing anything else? These are about as similarly featured models as we have ever seen from two so different makers.

Will the Tx be another unreliable hunk of junk? Or a classic
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2005 8:19:22 PM # Q
Your comments further on up about the case quality are moot. This is the same superb case design as was used on the TE series and the T5. The III days were long ago...


I hope (for your sake) that you're being sarcastic. The III and V series Palms were the last ones ever made with good cases. Everything else since then has had a stunning number of problems with material quality, durability, buttons, paint, etc. I have several old PDAs based on the original Palm design (various Pilots, III, IIIx, IIIxe, TRGpro) and these cases have all stood the test of time. Nice plastic, functional-as-he11, rugged, and later models even had a simple flip lid so no case was necessary.

The TE and its variants are an embarassment to the Palm legacy.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

The P1K cases.
orb2069 @ 10/14/2005 9:05:41 AM # Q
I have several old PDAs based on the original Palm design (various Pilots, III, IIIx, IIIxe, TRGpro) and these cases have all stood the test of time. Nice plastic, functional-as-he11, rugged

The III/V, I'll agree with you on - But the P1K/5K/Per/Pro? The back casing, along the top edge of all three of mine broke - Usually near the stylus housing. Plastic was too thin, and it was almost impossible to fix without gluing the memory door into place - Which left you no way other than the screws to get at the memory card when it periodically unseated itself.

I can understand why you wouldn't know about that, though - I doubt you actually owned one. And, since Palm dosen't make them anymore, you can attempt to sound reasonable(*) by praising their past products while trying to desperately scrape up a slam on their new one.

Go back to your retirement/hole.

(*)To somebody who hasen't read enough of the board to realize that you've got a suspiciously large amount of free time on your hands - Do you have a job? Or /is/ this your job?

1000->Personal->IRUpgrade->TRGPro->HE330->Treo 180->270

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
hkklife @ 10/14/2005 9:29:56 AM # Q
I am not doubting the Voice's legacy--he/she is far too well-tuned in to the industry to be a poseur--but my original Pilots/Palm Pilots had VERY poor plastics. I was constantly having problems with the stylus silo and usually had to tape/glue it to keep the thin slivers of plastic from breaking off completely. The III/IIIe/IIIx/IIIxe/IIIc/VII/VIIx were ugly but VERY solidly built. The TRGPro was good as well--the HE330 not so much, sadly.

Palm V/Vx were solid units but the buttons didnt have much of a lifetime. I had a sunken power button & a contacts button on my Vx after maybe 8 months of daily use.

I'd wager that the m500s were the turning point for Palm---well-designed, slim/stylish/solidly built casings but lots of "internal" issues---batteries going DOA, SUDS, flaky digitizers etc.

At least it seems that the newest batch of Palm devices is solidly built but still needing patching (LD, Treo 650) or decently built and quite stable (TX).

RE: Palm TX quality?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2005 9:54:48 AM # Q
I am not doubting the Voice's legacy--he/she is far too well-tuned in to the industry to be a poseur--but my original Pilots/Palm Pilots had VERY poor plastics. I was constantly having problems with the stylus silo and usually had to tape/glue it to keep the thin slivers of plastic from breaking off completely. The III/IIIe/IIIx/IIIxe/IIIc/VII/VIIx were ugly but VERY solidly built. The TRGPro was good as well--the HE330 not so much, sadly.

Palm V/Vx were solid units but the buttons didnt have much of a lifetime. I had a sunken power button & a contacts button on my Vx after maybe 8 months of daily use.

I'd wager that the m500s were the turning point for Palm---well-designed, slim/stylish/solidly built casings but lots of "internal" issues---batteries going DOA, SUDS, flaky digitizers etc.

At least it seems that the newest batch of Palm devices is solidly built but still needing patching (LD, Treo 650) or decently built and quite stable (TX).

Yes the plastic around the stylus housing of the early Palms/Pilots was a little thin - but since I never used the built in stylus, this was a non-issue for me.

I agree with you about the HandEra 330 - I believe HandEra outsourced it to a Korean firm and the hardware quality was a big step down from the TRGpro.

I'll take your word about the LifeDrive, but the Treo 650 build quality isn't the greatest either. And with the TX just coming out now, I'd suggest you withhold judgement until it's been tested in the REAL WORLD by REAL PEOPLE. A dozen online reviews written by reviewers that only had the devices for a few days isn't a reliable way to assess quality.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sensing a lot of negative energy from a certain nameless individual in this thread...


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
hkklife @ 10/14/2005 10:37:23 AM # Q
Voice;

You can definitely take my word on the LD. Please note that when I applaud its PHYSICAL build quality I make NO claims whatsoever to the robustness of its OS/memory architecture/HD fragility. I am JUST talking about case materials/rigidity/button response etc.

As to the TX, I have one sitting here next to my T5 and it's a good notch or two above in terms of both aesthetics and quality. Definitely the best that the lameduck T|E spinoffs can hope to be in both categories. The usual complains aside (no LED, no vibrate, no VR, no G1 option), there's nothing that's jumped out at me so far. No resets SO FAR when doing things that brought my LD & patched T5 to their knees (downloading email attachments when in landscape mode via wi-fi, letting a BT connection time ou then immediately trying to reconnect etc).

I am going to start using this sucker fulltime today and will pull NO PUNCHES and make NO APOLOGIES if it fails to perform. All details will be thoroughly reported on PIC's front page & forums.

So far the wi-fi implementation is leagues better than the T|C, LD or SDIO card. Performance (ie wi-fi range) is a bit weaker than either of the two older units, unfortunately. This is all , of course, very early, seat of pants testing.

RE: Palm TX is hopefully a sign that Palm now "gets it".
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2005 1:32:55 PM # Q
As to the TX, I have one sitting here next to my T5 and it's a good notch or two above in terms of both aesthetics and quality. Definitely the best that the lameduck T|E spinoffs can hope to be in both categories. The usual complains aside (no LED, no vibrate, no VR, no G1 option), there's nothing that's jumped out at me so far. No resets SO FAR when doing things that brought my LD & patched T5 to their knees (downloading email attachments when in landscape mode via wi-fi, letting a BT connection time ou then immediately trying to reconnect etc).

I am going to start using this sucker fulltime today and will pull NO PUNCHES and make NO APOLOGIES if it fails to perform. All details will be thoroughly reported on PIC's front page & forums.

So far the wi-fi implementation is leagues better than the T|C, LD or SDIO card. Performance (ie wi-fi range) is a bit weaker than either of the two older units, unfortunately. This is all , of course, very early, seat of pants testing.

Great news, hkklife. Thanks for the info. I consider ongoing reports from veteran Palm users like you to be a LOT more important than ANY of the early reviews that were produced by reviewers that only had the device for a few days. [Ryan, will you be updating this review - or any of your other reviews - as new info becomes available? You have a lot of responsibility to create accurate reviews - many people seem to treat the online reviews as gospel when they research their PDA choice...]

Why the he11 didn't Palm offer the TX 2 years ago? This model sounds like it's close to what a LOT of users have been begging Palm for for YEARS and might have prevented thousands of users from defecting to PPC/Windows Mobile. And once Palm loses a user to another platform, it will be hard to get them back. It's odd that Palm wouldn't at least add a charging light - it wouldn't have cost them more than 5 cents. The voice recorder and vibration alert may have been omitted due to concerns about reliability or just to justify the price of future (more expensive) devices.

I hope Palm pulls this one off. While I'm optimistic, I'm also sceptical - have ANY Palms since the IIIxe been relatively free of OS bugs and hardware defects?

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
Admin @ 10/14/2005 2:51:56 PM # Q
Yes, I will be updating this review, especially about battery life. I already have few times.
RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell A
twizza @ 10/14/2005 3:56:49 PM # Q
"have ANY Palms since the IIIxe been relatively free of OS bugs and hardware defects?"

In my recent memory:
no issues with the original Zire, or Zire 21; M515 or T2 (as they were fixes).

Other than that, most models have had one patch, if not two.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

OK, 'Toine - you win.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2005 5:17:09 PM # Q
In my recent memory:
no issues with the original Zire, or Zire 21; M515 or T2 (as they were fixes).

Other than that, most models have had one patch, if not two.

I stand corrected. I'll give you the primitive Zire/m150 and Zire 21 but the T2 with its Damned Digitizer Drift + feeble battery doesn't count. Nor does the biodegradable m515 with its USB HotSync "issues".


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Tx is actually a better deal than comparable Dell Axim!
hkklife @ 10/14/2005 7:35:51 PM # Q
Please don't forget the Zire 31. Despite a feeble/dim/washed out screen, it's still COLOR, widely available for $100 new, has an SDIO slot, and plays mp3s. That, combined with the d-pad masquerading as a cough drop, makes for a nice little unit for basic PIM stuff and lite multimedia/gaming. The battery life is superb and the 200mhz CPU nothing to sneeze at.

Overall it's a much more compelling piece than the Z22. Other than the "find" bug, the little fellow is basically bulletproof.

Past all of those, there aren't many Palms that haven't had any issues whatsoever. If this keeps up, the TX MIGHT end up on this short list of notables.

Let me repeat: nearly 2 days of solid usage and NO crashes yet. NONE. I haven't had this thing enough time to play with the battery. I read on Brighthand that the Thinkoutside keyboard driver isn't yet TX compatible. I'm not sure if that was in regards to the IR or the BT variant (or both). I will continue testing that this weekend. Right now I'm missing the charge LED and the voice recorder and a hardware portrait/landscape button and that's about IT!

Deal alert:

Office Max has been sending out $20 off website purchase coupons lately. If you can stomach their "ZERO PDA return" policy, that makes for a hella nice deal on a new TX (whenever they finally get around to listing them on their website).



It's a shame reviews are never updated
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/23/2005 10:12:02 PM # Q
Do the right thing, Ryan.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Battery Capacity...

gfunkmagic @ 10/12/2005 1:39:01 AM # Q
Ryan, other sites are reporting the Tx has standard 3.7 volt, 1400 milliamp-hour non-replacable Lithium-Ion battery.

I can't recall, but I think this would be a bit larger than the T5...

--------------------
Gaurav

BT 1.2 or BT 1.1?
gfunkmagic @ 10/12/2005 1:55:37 AM # Q
Also, there seems to be some discrepancy whether the Tx uses BT 1.1 or BT 1.2 spec? Other sites are reporting the latter while PIC review states it as 1.1? Is there any confirmation one way or the other?

--------------------
Gaurav
RE: Battery Capacity...
Admin @ 10/12/2005 2:16:16 AM # Q
ok thanks for the battery tip. Palm hasn't gotten back to my question on that.

The sticker on the back of the TX says Bluetooth v1.2 compliant. However the reviewers guide and spec sheets list it as v1.1. Palm also confirmed with me that it was v.1.1. There are no new noticable bluetooth features in the software.

RE: Battery Capacity...
just_little_me @ 10/12/2005 2:16:54 AM # Q
It's 1.1 for sure. I read somewhere that early shipments had 1.2 stamped on back on units, but there was an errata sheet in the box stating TX is 1.1


JLM.

RE: Battery Capacity...
AdamaDBrown @ 10/12/2005 4:13:43 AM # Q
For what it's worth, I pulled the 1400 mAh figure from the T|X's internal data: start a new memo and enter shortcut dot 7.

It's 1.1 for sure. I read somewhere that early shipments had 1.2 stamped on back on units, but there was an errata sheet in the box stating TX is 1.1

Gak. Must amend my review.

RE: Battery Capacity...
Julian @ 10/12/2005 7:34:26 AM # Q
Hmm. At 1400mAh I'm surprised that the battery life being quoted in the cover story is so poor. 5 days at 40 mins/day or 6.5 hours MP3 audio is not great. I really wish they'd give this aspect of their designs more attention. My TH55 gets almost exactly 3 times the quoted TX battery life from it's 1000mAh battery (although admittedly with the screen brightness set on very low). I guess the TX screen and CPU must be very power hungry.

Right now my personal view on this is that, about 1.5 years later, Palm have almost caught up with the Sony Clie TH55. Maybe in 2006 or 2007 they'll finally beat Sony's 2004 device.

- Julian

RE: Battery Capacity...
sr4 @ 10/12/2005 8:48:34 AM # Q
Actually infosync quotes a 9 hour mp3 playback test, which is much more consistent with a 1400mAh battery.

Surur

RE: Battery Capacity...
ebrough @ 10/12/2005 9:34:28 AM # Q
Isn't the 1400mAh the same battery in the LifeDrive? If that battery can run my LifeDrive for hours it should do better in the TX.

RE: Battery Capacity...
twizza @ 10/12/2005 10:09:14 AM # Q
To the poster that compared this to their TH55 and was disappointed in battery life: the Th55 has a 123MHz MAX speed processor. Whereas the TX has a 312Mhz processor..a bit of a difference there ;)

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
RE: Battery Capacity...
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:12:13 AM # Q
ebrough,

I think the LD has like a 1780mah or something. Still beats the 900mah T3 battery like a drum, with improved Proc, lower speed and NVFS, the T|X should be strong. Minus "brighter" screen.


Twizza,
Yeah, but the Sony handheld engine could run datebook without buffering! Nevertheless, it would have been interesting to see what Sony could have delivered by now.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Battery Capacity...
orca @ 10/12/2005 11:21:58 AM # Q
Do I understand properly that the T|X does NOT include USB trickle charging? That's a huge omission. I very rarely use my E2's AC adapter, as it charges plenty enough via the USB connection to my PowerBook.

--
pa1mOne Tungsten E2 (replaced Palm Vx 4.1)
PowerBook G4 with MacOS X 10.4
RE: Battery Capacity...
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 12:06:28 PM # Q
Did Palm ever say that other PDAs had a trickle charge feature? My T3 does it and the E2 as you say, but I never remember this being a named "feature", so maybe the ommission means nothing?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Battery Capacity...
Admin @ 10/12/2005 12:40:54 PM # Q
Adama - the .7 shortcut does not accurately tell you the mAh capacity. Both the T5 and the TE2 also report Lion1400 when you enter the shortcut.

In fact the .7 shortcut is used for toggling between Alkaline/NiCad/Rechargeable Alkaline/NiMH on older units.

http://palmgear.mykbpro.com/Article_B1F4E.aspx

So I'm still waiting for an official response on the battery size.

-Ryan

RE: Battery Capacity...
Admin @ 10/12/2005 3:16:01 PM # Q
I've confirmed with Palm that the battery capacity is in fact 1250 mAh.
RE: Battery Capacity...
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 4:02:35 PM # Q
That's quite disappointing. 1400+ would have been better. Or, if it could be shoehorned in there, the LDs 1660mAh battery would be superb in the TX.


1250 is the same as the T5, right?

Palm lets us down yet again...

The best hope for now? A Bluetooth 1.2 ROM update released a few months down the road and a permanent $50 price drop.


RE: Battery Capacity...
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 8:46:18 PM # Q
> "...That's quite disappointing...."

No, a device with higher specs than all comparable wince devices is not disappointing. Moron. :)

> "...1400+ would have been better. [or] the LDs 1660mAh battery...."

Why stop there? If palm could have fitted a 9999mAh battery in the T|X it would have lasted for years on a single charge. It would also have weighed 4Kg. Idiot! It's not the size of the battery thats important, its the battery *life*. Most wince devices last little more than a day, so, hell, this kicks their asses, right? :)

> "...1250 is the same as the T5..."

But T|X has lower battery consumption! So it lasts longer! Arrrgh! Moron, moron, moron! :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Battery Capacity...
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 9:49:36 PM # Q
There's no need for name calling here over something as lame as debating what features should or shouldn't have been included. If you're such an amazing prognosticator of PDA tech then why aren't you employed by one of the Palm companies yet?

I am still probably going to buy a TX despite being rather underwhelmed by its features. That's been the case with every Palm released since the T3.

If the Treo 650 (released a YEAR ago) can have a removable 1660mAh battery then why can the new flagship PDA not have one? Ever heard of PROGRESS!?! By "It's not the size of the battery..." do you mean battery SIZE (implying physical dimensions) or mAh CAPACITY? Higher capacity batteries are ALWAYS better if there's no (or minimal) tradeoff in size.



RE: Battery Capacity...
Dr Opinion @ 10/13/2005 1:45:26 AM # Q
> "...There's no need for name calling here over something as lame..."

Yeah, sorry, I just get carried away sometimes. :D

> "...If the Treo 650 (released a YEAR ago) can have a removable 1660mAh battery then why can the new flagship PDA not have one?..."

HK, that's not a powerful analogy. Let me show you. For example, compare your statement with this one:

"If the 2004 Kenworth T800 truck (released a YEAR ago) can have a 16-liter 600 horsepower engine, then why can't my flaship 2005 Toyota Camry XLE?"

Well, it's easy, right? The Kenworth truck needs a large engine, because of the sort of things it does. The Toyota has an engine that's the right size for the sort of things people do with Camrys. People who buy Camrys might like them to go fast, but they don't want a giant 16-liter engine. It would look silly. It would be clumbsy. A giant engine would spoil those great Camry lines.

Got it? :)

If you're still having trouble, then about this one:

"If the Saturn V (first launched 37 YEARS ago) can have an engine capable of achieving 7,500,000 lbf of thrust, then why can't my flaship 2005 Toyota Camry XLE?"

See above. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Battery Capacity...
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 5:57:50 AM # Q
Treo 650 - 11.3 x 5.9 x 2.3 cm = 153 cubic cm
Palm Tx = 12.0x7.8x1.5 cm = 145 cubic cm

The Tx is wider and longer but thinner than the 650. If it were as thick as the Treo 650 then maybe there will be space for a bigger battery but would it sell if it were thicker? The sales figures for the Lifedrive give the answer.

Reply to this comment

So close, but not quite

sremick @ 10/12/2005 1:54:38 AM # Q
Palm edges closer to the perfect PDA, but misses out on some critical items:

- no vibrating alarm (critical for any device to be taken seriously for business purposes, or even the average Joe who is considerate of those around him). Even most cheap $50 cell phones vibrate these days. It should be standard-issue for a PDA, one of the primary tasks of which is to notify you of events/appointments.

- No charge (doubles as alarm) light. Now this is just a braindead decision for the same of a $0.01 part.

- No cradle. Sorry... every Palm I've ever owned has had a cradle. I'm not interested in downgrading. In fact, I have two: one at work and one at home, and the convenience of dropping or grabbing is too much to give up.

- Speaker facing the back? Dumb.

- No mic? OOPS. Sorry, I have one in my T3 and use it constantly for voice memos. It's a must-have.

- Downgrade of case from metal to plastic

- No dustcover on the SD slot? HELLO... more downgrading from my T3, which has this critical feature.

- And of course, That Feature Which Thou Shalt Not Name on these boards else you get flamed.

What I like:

- Solid form-factor. I can do without the slider.

- Integrated WiFi.

- Lots of memory

Ok so the TX is a nice upgrade from the E2. So where's the upgrade for the T3? Palm? Please?

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: Upgrade for the T3
jough @ 10/12/2005 2:21:05 AM # Q
The Lifedrive is the upgrade for the T3.

I'm using a T|E (not E2, just E) every day for PIM functions and watching video (tv shows and movies with TCPMP) and so the T|X will be a major upgrade for me.

Built-in WiFi, the best screen available in a PDA (in terms of brightness and aspect ratio - in landscape it's great for widescreen video), and hopefully decent battery life with or without using the radio(s), and at the $299 price point the T|X is sure to be a winner.

I was a little annoyed that there wasn't a voice recorder as was originally rumoured, but my phone has one built-in, so it's no huge loss.

I can't wait to get one. I researched the PPCs available and none of them really seemed to fit Palm's great form factor and features for the price. Most of the PocketPC PDAs look downright bulky next to the T5 (and now the T|X, since they use the same case, just in a different colour).


Windows will crash.

RE: So close, but not quite
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 9:13:34 AM # Q
LD is no T3 upgrade. It's an "entirely new caegory of device", remember?


Lag/frequent crashes/heat/thickness/decent battery life/solid build quality.

All of those are LD traits that the T3 doesn't have.

Give us a unit in a metal body with NO harddrive, 128mb RAM, and otherwise LD specs (dual wireless, VR, LED) and THEN we'll have the true T3 successor.


RE: So close, but not quite
sremick @ 10/12/2005 10:24:14 AM # Q
I agree. The LifeDrive is nothing like the T3. It can't be considered the replacement. It's meant to be a portable media player, not a business PDA.

I want a polished quality-built business-class PDA that pulls no punches and doesn't skimp on features, such as a $0.50 vibrating motor or a $0.01 LED. Or a CRADLE. Let it cost $400 if that's what it takes, but for god sakes make it available to buy.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: So close, but not quite
epp_b @ 10/12/2005 11:24:23 PM # Q
"- And of course, That Feature Which Thou Shalt Not Name on these boards else you get flamed."

Hmmm...you got me...might this have something to do with vandalism on a building followed by three minus two?

RE: So close, but not quite
neilmitchell @ 10/15/2005 1:16:50 AM # Q
I had a T3 and bought a Lifedrive. The Lifedrive is the most "buggy" Palm ever, especially the Versamail implementation. It's bulk (compared to the T3) seemed okay at first but I found myself leaving it on my desk as I could get fired in the office envionment with that in my pocket :-). Seriously it did get left on the desk as it was just too awkward to carry arround. I am awaiting delivery of a T|X.

Atari-Portolio > HP95LX > HP100LX > HP300LX > HP320LX > Nino300 > Nino500 > HP620LX > Jornada680 > PalmV > Vx > m505 > T|T > T615C > T|T3 > T|E2 > T|T3 > LifeDrive

------------------
Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. - Sir Winston Churchill

Each success only buys an admission ticket to a more difficult problem - Henry Kissinger
------------------

RE: So close, but not quite
hkklife @ 10/15/2005 2:04:13 AM # Q
Although it's not yet confirmed, I *think* the TX has the "richer" color screen as found on the E2 (and maybe the LD).

I compared T5 & TX side by side using the stock Palm butterfly jpeg image and the stock ocean picture. Colors are definitely richer and deeper on the TX. Whites are a tad whiter with a hint of blue instead of a faint yellow in the T5. In addition, the grey TX status bar is a tad less intrusive when you're flipping through photos.

The TX also pulls images off of an SD card (even 7mp ones!) quite speedily-almost as fast as the LD! I seem to recall reading about optimizations made to the Media app for the TX.

So far, so good. 2 days and counting and STILL no crashes! Every program survived the transition from the T5 other than the Think Outside keyboard driver & AvantGo (latest build).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Reply to this comment

There's no need...

Jeffry @ 10/12/2005 2:27:09 AM # Q
... to review the Tungsten T|5 twice.

RE: There's no need...
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:17:27 AM # Q
The T5 disappointed so bad, that I'm not sure it needed once. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Reply to this comment

Palm charging what POS is worth?

sr4 @ 10/12/2005 2:35:24 AM # Q

There's no denying that the TX is great value for money, even just for the hardware. Its interesting that Palm is now going for the lower price market. People will however remember that Palm did not always have a reputation for overpriced PDA's, and used to be the "affordable option" compared to e.g. an Ipaq.

PPC's had always had a higher Average Sales Price, and surpassed PalmOS in revenue generated in 2003, a full year before surpassing them in unit sales.
http://www.palmblvd.com/articles/2003/8/2003-8-18-Gartner-Says-PDA.html

The TX is very cheap, but POS have always been cheaper. This no great guarantee of success.

Surur

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
svrontis @ 10/12/2005 3:01:40 AM # Q
Dunno about that. The TE did very well with sales because it had a reasonable feature set at a knock-out price. The TE2 essentially followed in those same footsteps (but I don't know how sales have gone). Looks like Palm is trying the same tactic with this thing too.

(I'm kinda tempted to turn in my Treo 650 to get one of these.)

Wince is dead...
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 3:42:29 AM # Q
Why would anyone consider spending almost double this price for the typical bulky wince brick with less applications, no battery life, and terrible hotsync problems?

Its easy to see the writing is on the wall for m$... I wonder how long the struggling wince division will be allowed to bleed cash. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
sr4 @ 10/12/2005 3:57:21 AM # Q

I have no doubt this will sell well, from piles of POS users who have been waiting for a dual wireless POS device but were rightly wary of the LifeDrive. I just do not see this growing POS marketshare or bringing in new users.

Despite what many people say, I believe people who buy PDA's (beside Doctor Opinion of course) are generally knowledgable techies (to a degree) and would have seen a variety of articles all over the media declaring POS dead, and would know that Palm is releasing a Win CE device. Despite the nice specs of the TX they will be reluctant to invest in POS now.

Surur

Nice try, Surur.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2005 4:24:38 AM # Q
Despite what many people say, I believe people who buy PDA's (beside Doctor Opinion of course) are generally knowledgable techies (to a degree) and would have seen a variety of articles all over the media declaring POS dead, and would know that Palm is releasing a Win CE device. Despite the nice specs of the TX they will be reluctant to invest in POS now.

Try again, Surur. The "average" PDA buyer does NOT read Palm fanboy sites and probably still trusts the "Palm" name. They will also probably see this as a good spec job. (Those of us who know more about PDAs know where Palm cut corners to meet its price point, but that's another story...)

There are several more legitimate reasons to bash the TX, which you'll eventually figure out. To be honest, though, if the TX doesn't turn into another Palm Quality Control disaster, it should do well.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 4:49:56 AM # Q
> "...I believe people who buy PDA's (beside Doctor Opinion of course) are generally knowledgable techies..."

Knowledgable techies are generally extremely reluctant to use m$ products. They know that wince devices have lousy battery life, they know wince devices don't sync, and they know that their fave applications are only on the Palm OS.

If, on the other hand, you mean "wanna-be techies" such as Visual Basic coders and MCSEs, well, sure, they'll buy wince, but that's just becuase they get their technical info from m$ marketing materials. :)

> "...would have seen a variety of articles all over the media declaring POS dead..."

If by "articles" you mean your sloppy posts, then yes, they're all over the media. Except, of course, where you've been banned for trolling, spamming, and generally cluttering things up. :)

> "...Palm is releasing a Win CE device..."

Knowledgable techies recognize that when Bill Gates pays hundreds of thousands (or even millions) to have wince ported onto a market dominating device made by Palm, this is hardly cause to worry about the future of the Palm Economy. :)

Hey Bill? You want a T|X with wince? Cough up the cash, bo :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
sr4 @ 10/12/2005 5:57:10 AM # Q

I was going to post a pile of links, but then realised the only response your delusional and inane post deserve is this:

D.O. : blah blah blah blah blah
Me: Dont you get tired of looking so stupid?

Surur


RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
svrontis @ 10/12/2005 6:22:24 AM # Q
Or ...

Surur: Blah x 10^3
Moi: Don't you ever get tired of advertising Windows Docile devices?

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
sr4 @ 10/12/2005 6:50:40 AM # Q
Svrontis, you are not admitting to being D.O., are you?

Surur

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
svrontis @ 10/12/2005 7:09:22 AM # Q
No. But given how little sleep I've had recently I feel like D.A. (ie, Dead on Arrival).

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 8:51:17 AM # Q
surer wrote:
Its interesting that Palm is now going for the lower price market.

$299 is a great price for this device, no question.

As I recall from the Analyst Day presentations, though, Colligan said they are actually setting slightly *higher* margins on their handheld products due to the fact that competition has decreased in that market. (I'm sure he's mainly referring to the departure of Sony.) If that's the case their cost cutting measures must really be working. The question is whether those cuts are things that affect quality in important respects or not. Cutting costs doesn't have to be a matter of cheaper components or build quality, but it could. If the T|X turns out to be trouble-free that $299 price will be a major achievement for Palm.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:20:08 AM # Q
<>

What he said. Only an insignificant blip on the Circuit City & Office Depot customer radar screen lives in our geeky neighborhood. The T|X will sell extremely well and draw away many sells from the darkside, at least until Dell (forget HP) drops the X50 to $199.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:23:28 AM # Q
Oops, here's the quote for above ... keep forgetting the formatting issue:

"Try again, Surur. The "average" PDA buyer does NOT read Palm fanboy sites and probably still trusts the "Palm" name. "

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
sr4 @ 10/12/2005 1:03:09 PM # Q
Pat, you I will respond to.

I think PDA's sell to the technically inclined, not to soccer mum's. The WM Treo was certainly well covered in the technical media. These are just from the first 4 ages from about 400 results. The people waiting for a $300 TX will be well aware of this story.

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051009/NEWS/510090313/1006/BUSINESS

"And now even the Palm operating system (Palm OS) that started the whole trend is about to go the way of the floppy disk — replaced by a system from archrival Microsoft."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/27/windows_palm/

Beatific Gates blesses the Windows Palm

"We don't need another operating system... It's too much effort".

http://www.marketwatch.com/news

Microsoft, Palm launch new Treo


http://www.telecomweb.com/news/1127842097.htm

Bill Gates Puts A Palm In His Pocket


http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=38339

Microsoft, Palm Launch Treo Mobile Phone
"The weakening position of the Palm OS in the market was further seen when PalmSource recently agreed to be acquired for $324 million. "


Microsoft, Palm make peace, plan new Windows phone

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nN26121943

Palm and Microsoft officially announce Windows Treo

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/64355


http://www.nytimes.com/

Microsoft's truce with Palm, its longtime rival in palmtop software, was forged with a rare agreement to allow Palm to tinker with the Windows Mobile software.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/242338_msftpalm27.html

One-time rivals Microsoft Corp. and Palm Inc. revealed details Monday of their jointly developed Treo smartphone, the first to replace software from a former Palm subsidiary with Microsoft's now-dominant mobile operating system.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002522794_ctia27.html
Palm, Microsoft forge peace with handheld

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/27/BUGADEUANQ1.DTL&type=business

Palm bets its future on Microsoft's OS
Handheld pioneer decides it must work with its rival

etc etc.

Many of these pages are just normal newspapers, not tech publications. Most PDA buyers are upgraders, and probably follow the trials and tribulations of Palm quite closely.

Surur

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 9:05:13 PM # Q
Surur, no-one cares about your random wince shilling rubbish. :)

Palm has more users, more applications, more developers, dominates in the smartphone segment, has better pricing, is profitable (unlike micro$uck wince division), and is about to transform the industry with Palm Linux.

And the Palm T|X is a better device for the money than anything on the wince platform.

And the T|X looks *far* better than the average clunky wince brick.

And it can actually hotsync reliably, unlike wince.

So eat my shorts. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
sr4 @ 10/13/2005 2:23:51 AM # Q

D.O. : blah blah blah blah.
Me: Don't you ever get tired of looking so stupid?

Surur

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
Timothy Rapson @ 10/13/2005 6:13:33 PM # Q
I agree with the several comments that this is a very good feature-set for the price and Palm has not had a model with such good value in the $200+ range since the Zire 71. If it is not botched resulting in serious recalls it might be another bread and butter profit model for Palm like the TE. I think Palm makes good margins on these but I have no idea where all that money is going because it doesn't show up in a decent profit report or in big R&D development investments.

On the other hand, I have to see some of Surer's point because I, myself, am not going to rush to buy a TX as I did a Sony NR several years ago as soon as it was released. Palm's overall position is not very good in my opinion and I don't see them delivering the advances to the POS platform that are available elsewhere. If this model had Cobalt or Plinux I would not have that concern. If POS were still the number one PDA seller, I might not have this concern. If Palm were still holding control of their OS instead of flirting with Bill to get leverage with their own OS maker, I might not have this concern.
I am not sure the average potential buyer knows this stuff is going on, but the average potential buyer will ask someone like us guys whom they see using PDAs all the time, before they spend $300 on one.....then they will remember what a pain in the but their desktop computer is and go ahead and buy an iPod or upgrade their phone rather than mess with a PDA.

RE: Palm charging what POS is worth?
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2005 10:19:53 PM # Q
... good points about the possibility of POS collapse. But I can't imagine such a thing coming to pass before the T|X is ragged out with a drifting digitizer, decreasing battery, and scuffed up screen. Ju$t go for it. This is a good deal for a change.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Palm Quality Control
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2005 2:56:53 AM # Q
...the T|X is ragged out with a drifting digitizer, decreasing battery, and scuffed up screen.


The problems you list frequently show up on Tungstens within a few months...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

The Only Band That Matters

scoT1753 @ 10/12/2005 7:22:25 AM # Q
The Clash!

Brand New Cadillac and This is Radio Clash. Sweet!

Reply to this comment

Tempting me to switch from my LifeDrive

dsaroff @ 10/12/2005 8:47:34 AM # Q
If this thing is stable (BIG IF!), I may be tempted to switch from my LD.

I'm absolutely fed up with doing weekly restores of my savedpreferences, Versmail/Blazer Resets and general instability.

Since my work paid for it, I'd only be losing the price of a Vaja case (anyone want to buy a used Vaha case?)

Only thing I would miss from the LD is the HUGE storage. I'd have to buy a 2gb SD (which would mean dumping half my mp3s). I won't miss the VR, since it is nearly unintelligable on the LD.

I'll wait, and if its as stable as the T5 patched with decent battery life, my work will get back its LD.

RE: Tempting me to switch from my LifeDrive
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 3:11:06 AM # Q
I haven't beaten mine to death with apps, so I can't say for certain, but there is this: aside from the requirements of testing, in the slightly more than a week I've had it, I did not have to reset it. Can't say the same for the Lifedrive I had, or the T5.

Reply to this comment

Looks like a Newton.

bsquare @ 10/12/2005 9:18:18 AM # Q

The black casing and font of the "palm" at the top makes this look like an Apple Newton from days of yore. A forecast of what will become of Palm and their PDA line? Hmmm... I wouldn't be surprized if this is the last PDA we see from Palm, ever. Treo's will probably be the only new products from this point on.


RE: Looks like a Newton.
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 9:37:27 AM # Q
I wouldn't be surprized if this is the last PDA we see from Palm, ever.

Expect to be surprised, then. I think they've got something quite unlike anything we've seen cooking in the non-phone category.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Looks like a Newton.
bsquare @ 10/12/2005 9:43:14 AM # Q

Yeah, based on the statements of Hawkins it'll most likely be a "PC in your pocket" type thing not a true PDA like we have known. If they wait for Linux/POS then they would potentially have a PDA that runs Linux at the core with some sort of a PalmOS interface, then you dock it at your desktop to a Monitor/Keyboard and it runs a desktop WindowManager (like KDE, WindowMaker, etc) on the same Linux Core. Same data, same apps, just a better presenatation for the Desktop. THAT's what a "LifeDrive" should be. One machine, both a PDA and a Desktop at the same time.

And while we're at it, aren't electronics supposed to get smaller as time goes on? Why are Palm PDA's GROWING in size each year? Geez, the next thing from Palm might end up being the same size as the Newton (OMP that is, they have a few more cycles to grow to the 2100)

RE: Looks like a Newton.
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 10:10:07 AM # Q
Yeah, based on the statements of Hawkins it'll most likely be a "PC in your pocket" type thing not a true PDA like we have known. If they wait for Linux/POS then they would potentially have a PDA that runs Linux at the core with some sort of a PalmOS interface, then you dock it at your desktop to a Monitor/Keyboard and it runs a desktop WindowManager (like KDE, WindowMaker, etc) on the same Linux Core. Same data, same apps, just a better presenatation for the Desktop. THAT's what a "LifeDrive" should be. One machine, both a PDA and a Desktop at the same time.

Yep, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. A cross between the LifeDrive and the IBM Soulpad or Blackdog Linux. With a QWERTY keyboard.

Palm's vision is "The future of computing is mobile computing." Their idea is that eventually *all* the important stuff you do will be with you. People will still use PCs of course, but they will increasingly be there just to give you access to a full-size keyboard, mouse and screen. All the stuff that makes the thing "your computer" will be in your mobile device.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Looks like a Newton.
hkklife @ 10/12/2005 10:17:17 AM # Q
Palms' PDAs are getting larger and their release cycles are getting longer in relation to the rest of the industry.

I think Palm's (relative) strength(s) are still in the $200 and below category. The E2 presents an excellent bang for the $ @ $200. The Zire 31 is superb at $100 and the Z22 is fairly good for less than $100, though I'd have made several changes (added SD slot & headphone jack and maybe the Athena connector and removed 1/2 of the RAM).

If Palm can get their quality control woes behind them then they might be ok, especially with a tighter, more focused lineup.

The LD is superbly built but has a crippled OS/memory architecture. The Treo 650 has been faithfully patched and updated numerous times and seems decently built. The TX is the best built and most stable NVFS device yet.
So the signs of improvement ARE there. Palm just needs to continue their string of profitable quarters and pack in the handful of features people want to see in a more stylish but similarly-sized formfactor to the TX.

RE: Looks like a Newton.
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 12:08:24 PM # Q
The T|X is a little outside my personal preference for maximum device size. That's one reason that I still hold to my T3 with wonderfully-fabulous-incredibly-excellent SLIDER that everyone loved so.

Here is what a T|X device of this size should look like. That would justify the extra size and make for a huge improvement in functionality. (battery excepted)

http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/tt7.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Looks like a Newton.
bdholmes @ 10/13/2005 11:03:40 AM # Q
The Newton 100 had a depth of 19.05mm, which isn't far off the TX's 15.5mm

It's well overdue that Palm throw everything unnecessary overboard to slim back down to the Palm V form factor that was so popular and successful.

Waiting for the day I can buy a new PDA that will fit in my jeans pocket with my phone,

Brendan
Palm Vx

RE: Looks like a Newton.
cervezas @ 10/13/2005 11:17:55 AM # Q
It's well overdue that Palm throw everything unnecessary overboard to slim back down to the Palm V form factor that was so popular and successful.

Actually, as I just posted on another thread, it's time they go much smaller and slimmer than that. They should be looking to the popularity of the iPod Nano and trying to develop a super-simple PDA that you hardly know is in your pocket. OK, Fossil took this a little *too* far, but something between their wristwatch PDA and the Visor Edge would be a sweet spot, IMO.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Looks like a Newton.
bdholmes @ 10/13/2005 11:39:15 AM # Q
Indeed. If Apple can fit a colour screen into a device that's 6.8mm thick, I see no reason why Palm can't get back to the 10-11mm thickness of the Palm V. Palm has been going downhill as a company since they abandoned the V form factor. A coincidence?

RE: Looks like a Newton.
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 11:59:32 AM # Q
bsquare said:it'll most likely be a "PC in your pocket" type thing

It's been done; expensive but it's here:

www.oqo.com

Besides, the PC in the pocket isn't anything new. Anyone here remember the Toshiba Libretto? Yes and look at what happened to that. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be much demand for a pocketable Windows XP PC. Even the demand for Tablet PC seems to be lacklustre. It seems the money's to be made in the smartphone business.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Looks like a Newton.
bsquare @ 10/13/2005 2:04:52 PM # Q
It's been done; expensive but it's here:

www.oqo.com

Yes, I know that the "pocketable PC" thing has been done many times before. What I was suggesting was with the new PalmLinuxOS they would have a device that has a TRUE PDA interface (like current Palm OS) running over a Linux core and then switched the interface to a more traditional Desktop when docked. Apps and data all are the same running on the same device, but the device adapts the interface to suit the situation.

All these previous devices like the Libretto, this OQO, the Parachute (or something like that) were nothing more than "Cram Windows into a micro PC with a Micro screen" which is why they failed. A PDA/Phone/SmartPhone has completely different interface requirements. It has taken WinCE/PPC several years to morph into something usable from its early Windows95-look-alike days.


Palm PC? Too late, Bubba.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2005 8:44:48 PM # Q
Yeah, based on the statements of Hawkins it'll most likely be a "PC in your pocket" type thing not a true PDA like we have known. If they wait for Linux/POS then they would potentially have a PDA that runs Linux at the core with some sort of a PalmOS interface, then you dock it at your desktop to a Monitor/Keyboard and it runs a desktop WindowManager (like KDE, WindowMaker, etc) on the same Linux Core. Same data, same apps, just a better presenatation for the Desktop. THAT's what a "LifeDrive" should be. One machine, both a PDA and a Desktop at the same time.

And while we're at it, aren't electronics supposed to get smaller as time goes on? Why are Palm PDA's GROWING in size each year? Geez, the next thing from Palm might end up being the same size as the Newton (OMP that is, they have a few more cycles to grow to the 2100)

I've been arguing that Palm neededto explore the possibilities of making a Palmtop™ (a micro laptop). Palm execs felt otherwise and without a true multitasking OS, such a device would face the same limitations that users of the CLIE UX50 (the best Palmtop™ ever sold) users struggle with daily.

Only problem is that - as the Sony U series is showing - Real Windows™ in a tiny package is close to being perfected. I expect most people will prefer to work with Real Windows™ apps rather than using ones that can just sync with/have partial compatibility with Real Windows™. Had Palm been able to release PalmLinux in 2003 and sell the Palmtop™ idea to businesses as a way to cut down on support costs for employees that don't REALLY need to be given Real Windows™ laptops. In the past 2 years, Palm could have entrenched itself as a supplier of inexpensive, stable, easy-to-support laptop replacements. Now we're almost in 2006. The "Windows™" of opportunity are closed.

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7541#103141

And here's a funny blast from the past:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=1160

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Syncs with MS Exchange

cervezas @ 10/12/2005 9:41:03 AM # Q
IMO, the third salient aspect that's going to make this device very popular (aside from the built-in WiFi and the great price) is the implementation of the ActiveSync protocol for synchronizing calendar and email with an Exchange Server.

I suspect the fact that Palm is now highly visible as a partner with Microsoft has got a few people who are squarely in the Windows camp looking more closely at Palm, so this feature will not go unnoticed.

One strange thing, though: it only syncs calendar and email? Why not contacts, tasks and notes? I suppose those can be synced in the usual manner via conduits to the desktop, but this seems like an unfortunate omission if the device is intended to untether people from the desktop.

I also wonder how well the ActiveSync plays with HotSync. Does it only run over the wireless connection or can you do a network sync with Exchange in the cradle? And if both ActiveSync and Hotsync use the same transport (wired or wireless) how have they implemented this to avoid conflicts? I see this as being an area where there could be serious problems if it hasn't been *very* well thought out. Looking forward to hearing from some people who use the T|X with Exchange and learning what their experience is with it.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Syncs with MS Exchange
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 5:24:27 PM # Q
"IMO, the third salient aspect that's going to make this device very popular (aside from the built-in WiFi and the great price) is the implementation of the ActiveSync protocol for synchronizing calendar and email with an Exchange Server.
I suspect the fact that Palm is now highly visible as a partner with Microsoft has got a few people who are squarely in the Windows camp looking more closely at Palm, so this feature will not go unnoticed."

You have alot to learn about Corporate IT. They gave up Palm long ago in favor of Pocket PC. Also very few companies use the Exchange wireless server. Most use the RIM Blackberry Exchange add-on. That may change with Windows Mobile 5 but it will be awhile.


RE: Syncs with MS Exchange
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 5:51:31 PM # Q
tthiel wrote:
You have alot to learn about Corporate IT. They gave up Palm long ago in favor of Pocket PC. Also very few companies use the Exchange wireless server.

I'm well aware of Corporate IT's preference for Windows overall. But practically every customer my company deals with (small- to medium-sized businesses) is on the fence about the platform issue and the ActiveSync support eliminates one obstacle to them choosing Palm when for other reasons that would be their preference. These small enterprises are where the next big growth spurt for mobile is materializing so Palm is not as far out of the game as some would assume if they play their cards right.

The TX is a WLAN device, not WAN like the Treo, so you don't need Exchange wireless server to sync your TX with Exchange. It's on the LAN just like your office PC is.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Syncs with MS Exchange
Sjrixon @ 10/14/2005 10:08:21 AM # Q
I had missed the Active Sync implementation! That does make it more interesting. With Exchange 2000/3 it's so easy to give your workforce mobile e-mail.

RIM is expensive! Most companies have Exchange. So their choice of devices is limited to M$ ones. This gives a new angle (just).

Reply to this comment

Horrible OS

tthiel @ 10/12/2005 10:46:00 AM # Q
Palm is still cheaping out by using the horrible Frankenpalm OS. Alot of people still want to use Palm OS but its been patched over and over agin to the point of being impossible to maintain or make stable. Pocket PCs like the Dell are a much better deal. With their frequent coupons you can ge an X51 or X51v that spanks this device hard.

RE: Horrible OS
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 11:08:17 AM # Q
its been patched over and over agin to the point of being impossible to maintain or make stable

Heh, that's exactly what James Alchin told Bill Gates about Windows when Gates asked why it was taking so long to deliver Longhorn. It's an old story that isn't unique to Palm and you're not saying anything everyone including Palm doesn't already know.

I'm hearing noises from multiple sources that lead me to suspect that Linux things from Palm may very well precede the release of Palm OS for Linux. Just not for the Treos.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Horrible OS
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 11:28:09 AM # Q
... speak Dave speak ...

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
Palm's extracurricular Linux activities
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 11:47:34 AM # Q
Nothing definite, of course...

First, recall that we heard almost a year ago that Palm was working on Linux stuff from the same people who correctly stated they were working with Windows Mobile. This was even before PalmSource announced their Linux plans, in fact.

Fast forward to today: we've got a member of this community who appears to be within PSI talking about a Linux clamshell device they are aware of being developed within Palm. And we've got Palm showing up as a customer on Wind River's website (which doesn't mean they are customer for Wind River's consumer Linux platform, but it could). And we've got LinuxDevices.com saying they've been told that Palm is developing devices on a Wind River Linux OS... but seeming to get the "phone" part of that leak wrong, since it's in direct conflict with public statements by Palm executives.

Any one of these is easily discounted, but together they start to add up to a picture, especially in the current context of Palm's business.

Palm has finally made definite statements that they will replace Garnet with Palm OS for Linux once PalmSource has it ready. According to ITWeek, Ken Wirt said Palm is "waiting for PalmSource to port the Palm environment to Linux before moving away from Palm OS 5." But that doesn't mean that they couldn't have non-Palm Linux products along side their Garnet products for a period of time. And just because Colligan said there weren't any plans for (non-Palm) Linux or Symbian *Treos* doesn't mean they wouldn't consider a new Linux platform for a device that is not a phone.

Basically, I'm thinking that all this sounds like the first rumblings of devices from Hawkins' infamous "Third Business" coming on the wind. If it's as "disruptive" a device class as Hawkins claims, it wouldn't be surprising that Palm thought it would need a different kind of middleware than Palm OS will provide for Linux.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Horrible OS
bsquare @ 10/12/2005 12:01:58 PM # Q

its been patched over and over agin to the point of being impossible to maintain ...

Now, are you talking about PalmOS 5 or Linux??



RE: Horrible OS
LiveFaith @ 10/12/2005 12:12:47 PM # Q
Patching programs is not the problem. It's when they need to be patched that you have an issue! Pre-v1.1-TT5 & LD for example. Yeah, in a perfect world clean-sheet design is preferred, but this planet doesn't offer that since Eden. Once a program is comppiled it's all the same. Kinda like "eating your peas" ... no matter how bad they taste, it all ends up in the stomach anyway.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Horrible OS
pmjoe @ 10/12/2005 2:10:16 PM # Q
Well, if Palm was smart, they'd be working with PalmSource to get PalmLinux out as soon as possible, not working with some other company on some other Linux solution.

RE: Horrible OS
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 4:46:54 PM # Q
Well, if Palm was smart, they'd be working with PalmSource to get PalmLinux out as soon as possible, not working with some other company on some other Linux solution.

Wow, you know what Palm's up to with their Linux stuff? Why didn't you fill us in earlier? :O

I'm 100% sure that Palm is working with Access/PalmSource on getting Palm Linux running, and I'm fairly sure that their hiring of Linux folk is to help develop Palms for PL and customize the PLOS just like they've always done. Those are just my thoughts, everything else is a rumor.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."

RE: Horrible OS
tthiel @ 10/12/2005 5:17:05 PM # Q
"its been patched over and over agin to the point of being impossible to maintain or make stable"

""Heh, that's exactly what James Alchin told Bill Gates about Windows when Gates asked why it was taking so long to deliver Longhorn. It's an old story that isn't unique to Palm and you're not saying anything everyone including Palm doesn't already know.""

You just said nothing. As usual.
What I am saying is that this OS will have just as many issues as the T5 and Lifedrive. Plus if you combine the lower processor speed and the extremely unstable and generally poor excuse for multitasking in Palm OS playing video and MP3 will not be a good experience. Lower battery life too. Yes it finally has the wireless it should have had 2 years ago and it has the dated BT 1.1 (really dumb) plus...it's black. At Palm changing the color amounts to innovation.

RE: Horrible OS
cervezas @ 10/12/2005 5:28:11 PM # Q
You just said nothing.

Sorry if you were offended by my gratuitous jab at Microsoft. My point was that we are all--especially the folks at Palm--well aware of the shortcomings of Garnet when used to power devices with multiple radios and other modern complexities. You're not telling anyone anything. The fact that Palm was so anxious two years ago to get onto a preemptive multitasking OS that they started building devices on Windows Mobile (and possibly Linux) is a good indication that they are not "cheaping out on us" as you suggested in your original post. If I'm correct, they're not even waiting for PalmSource to make their own Linux move.

If you had argued that Palm and PalmSource should have seen this coming sooner, or should have done the Cobalt middleware on Linux from the start instead of trying to roll their own kernel from scratch, well, there I would agree with you. But that was a costly error of judgment, not a manifestation of being "cheap."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Horrible OS
Dr Opinion @ 10/12/2005 9:32:26 PM # Q
> "...What I am saying is that this OS will have just as many issues as the T5 and Lifedrive...."

Moron. Read the reviews. :)

Of course, unlike wince devices, the T|X will actually be able to hotsync reliably.

The T|X will probably serve to draw many wince users over to palm, users who are just too fed up with the lousy battery life, frequent crashes, pathetic MS Office compatability, few applications, terrible hotsync crashes, etc, that are considered "normal" on m$ wince devices. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Horrible OS
feranick @ 10/13/2005 12:05:28 AM # Q
I am just fed up about people calling other people "morons" just for the fun of doing it. PIC is a nice forum, but those people really annoy me. If such people are so superior and they think they really know everything about everything, they should also know that how to use some respect. Or maybe I should ask you a very complicated nuclear physics question and because you won't be able to answer, I will call you... nothing, because I am not like you.
RE: Horrible OS
Dr Opinion @ 10/13/2005 1:49:53 AM # Q
I completely agree.

If everyone started calling each other morons, then it would completely lose its effectivness when disciplining people who say stupid stuff without thinking first.

Hell, I don't care if they *think* stupid stuff. It's a free country, right? But if they go around *posting* stupid stuff in public forums, well, hey, they might get flamed.

It's all part of the Internet's great tradition, my friend. ;)

http://www.huis.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/jargon/LexiconEntries/Flame.html

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Horrible OS
twrock @ 10/13/2005 1:52:03 AM # Q
feranick: PIC is a nice forum,....

The "forum" might be nice, but don't go accusing any of the people of it! ;-)

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: Horrible OS
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 3:14:40 AM # Q
D.O, you've stepped over the line. It was marginally funny, in a pathetic sort of way, when you were simply posting gibberish. But personal attacks are one of the few things not tolerated on PIC. With any luck, you'll get banned for it the way Surur did. It improved his politeness. Perhaps it can do the same for you.

RE: Horrible OS
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 7:19:16 PM # Q
Dr Opinion saidIt's a free country, right?

Now that depends, people might be posting from Iran, China etc. so who's to know?

Besides, how do you know someone's a moron, are you a psychologist? Have you carried out any intelligence tests? How do you even know that you yourself aren't a moron?

People may express ill-thought out opinions but that doesn't make them morons. If it did then everyone in the world's a moron at some point or another.

But if they go around *posting* stupid stuff in public forums, well, hey, they might get flamed
If you go around posting derogatory remarks about people you might just get sued for libel and defamation of character.
It's all part of life's great tradition of litigation, "my friend", internet or no internet.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Reply to this comment

Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway

Gekko @ 10/12/2005 12:43:31 PM # Q

There's no reason to buy/manage/charge/carry/sync/fight/fumble with 2+ devices when ONE Smartphone can do it all. And since almost everyone has a cell phone, do the math - PDAs are DEAD.



RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
wannitnow @ 10/12/2005 12:55:19 PM # Q
But there aren't any GOOD smartphones. It's always a crappy phone + a mediocre pda.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Gekko @ 10/12/2005 1:00:47 PM # Q

Try the Verizon Treo 650 - Hardware B, ROM 1.03 or later.

I'm a picky bastard and I LOVE IT!!!



RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
tfftruoa @ 10/12/2005 1:09:30 PM # Q
Take a gander at the upcoming Nokia E-series.

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6221.html

With carrier subidies, they shouldn't be much more expensive than the TX.

CCCP: Creative Commonists for Copyleft Protection

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Captain Hair @ 10/12/2005 4:51:03 PM # Q
In a way, Gekko is right. Smartphones are the future of mobile computing, but there's always going to be a niche for PDAs, just like people will always have desktop computers when laptops are so much more portable.

"People who think they're smart annoy those of us who are."
RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
cnegrad @ 10/12/2005 4:56:22 PM # Q
In a way, Gekko's wrong. He feels that smartphones should replace PDA's, not suppliment them. And as if that's not bad enough, he goes around this forum ranting his childishness everywhere he goes. "Hi, I'm Gekko! I want everyone to do exactly as I do, and get rid of their PDA's in favor of the Treo 650. Do it now!"

I'm sorry, but his immaturity is getting old.

-cnegrad

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Gekko @ 10/12/2005 8:51:25 PM # Q

reality prevails.



RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
twrock @ 10/13/2005 12:59:51 AM # Q
Yeah, ok, I'll admit it: I must be weird. I keep looking at a converged device, and I keep concluding I want to keep them separate. How many PDAs were sold in the last 12 months? I find it hard to agree with "dead" word when there so many still being sold. "Diminishing sales"? Sure, particularly when compared with the sales of all handheld electronic devices. But "dead"? I think not.

From that standpoint, the TX is a very nice PDA. And I suspect that the "niche" market for PDA's will stick around for some time and be a fairly large "niche" at that. No reason for Palm to not make money wherever they can. Market share/mind share aren't anything to sneeze at either. The TX and the Z22 are both excellent units for their target markets and at their price points. I can't imagine they won't sell well.

And please, don't go trying to label me a "Palm apologist." I've done my fair share of griping about Palm. (My tagline ought to be a clue.) But when Palm goes and does something right, I don't see much point in whining about it.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

Not dinosaurs but horses
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 6:28:21 AM # Q
200 years back horses were the only way of travelling on the road. 100 years back reliable automobiles started appearing and being mass produced. The horse still had its uses. Now, the horse has its niche but it's the automobile that dominates the road - you can drive for a year before seeing a horse on the road.

PDAs today are in the same position horses were 100 years back. Even now, it's rare to see a PDA in use when compared to a mobile; as Gekko said, "everyone has a mobile".

Add to the mix the fact that "dumbphones", iPods (even iPods can sync dates, contacts and memos with Outlook) etc are taking on the functions which used to be PDA territory.

The PDA is going the way of the horse on the road and it's not going to take 100 years either...

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Even Palm's Behaviour signals the decline of PDAs
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 6:41:10 AM # Q
Just look at how much attention is given to the WinMobile Treo, special press conference with Bill Gates and head of Verizon despite the fact it won't even be available before 2006. Compare to the attention the Tx and Z22 receive: blink and you miss it, especially if you don't have an interest in Palm affairs.

So even Palm is acknowledging it has a rosier future making smartphones than making handhelds.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
orb2069 @ 10/13/2005 7:44:31 AM # Q
...(My tagline ought to be a clue.)...

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

Lessee... Color, Removable storage, collapsable/write anywhere Graffiti, rotation, WiFi support... The only thing left would be Palm III sled compatability as far as I can tell - and since all the Rand McNally GPS units are being bought up and converted to general-use (See http://www.radiohound.com/randgps.htm )...

Well, I guess the ship has finally come in.

And, yeah, I still think HandEra got robbed.

1000->Personal->IRUpgrade->TRGPro->HE330->Treo 180->270

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
twrock @ 10/13/2005 11:48:49 AM # Q
The only thing left would be Palm III sled compatability as far as I can tell....

Actually, there is more: dual card slot (one CF), voice recorder, charging LED, dual batttery option. The HE 330 was innovative! Granted that WiFi is a great feature, but some would give it up to have all the rest of those HE features.

I will very likely be buying the TX, but it doesn't completely meet the requirements of the "mythical color HandEra."

Regarding the horse analogy above, it's funny you should bring that up. When I do live in the USA, I live in Amish country. Horses are extremely common where I live and are used for both transportation and work by a very large percentage of the population. Honestly, I wouldn't be able to drive for ten minutes without seeing a horse on the road. So although you might not see them very often, there are many who do.

In the same way, I don't doubt that "it's rare to see a PDA in use when compared to a mobile..." if by that you mean a standard "dumbphone". I certainly admitted as much earlier. But if you mean compared to smartphones, then I'd have to suggest that depends on the crowd you run in. I rarely see a true "smartphone" in use, but I see plenty of PDA's.

Just to make it clear: I am only suggesting that using the word "dead" (past tense) of a product category that is still selling at these kinds of numbers is overstating the case. If the PDA is truly dead already, Palm shouldn't have even bothered releasing the TX and Z22. But I believe, and Palm certainly believes, there is enough life left in the PDA category to make a nice little profit from the sales of TX's and Z22's. And if Palm never realeases another new PDA, you can come right back here and say, "See, I told you so."

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
adamsmark @ 10/13/2005 12:21:05 PM # Q
Geko,

Don't get caught up on terms. My PDA, the Treo 650, is alive and well. I only wish is came with a larger screen. Like dinosaurs, the PDA ought to evolve, which I'm guessing is your point. The perfect PDA ought to be...

1. A cell phone
2. Digital camera
3. MP3/video player
4. Personal organizer
5. Laptop substitute
6. Wallet (driver's license, credit cards, etc.)

...and it would be nice if I could open beer bottles with it.

Call it a smartphone, call it a PDA, call it an iPod, but whatever you call it, make it universal.

The problem with the Treo is its screen. Functionally, I'm sacrificing the large screen of the TX or my T3 for universality.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Gekko @ 10/13/2005 12:29:40 PM # Q

Let me be CRYSTAL CLEAR -

NON-CELLULAR PDAS are DEAD.



RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
sr4 @ 10/13/2005 1:10:43 PM # Q
Interestingly you have to go WM to see PDA's with cellular radios that lean more to PDA than phone e.g. the HTC universal, all the XDA's etc. Not that there are not WM smartphones either, which lean the other way.

Surur

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
tfftruoa @ 10/13/2005 1:43:19 PM # Q
On the contrary Gekko, it is cellular enabled devices which are soon to be dead. Wifi and/or wimax offer much high bandwidth than even the fastest 3G connections, so when it comes to data, those will always be the preferable means of connection.

Wimax and voip will kill the cellcos.

CCCP: Creative Commonists for Copyleft Protection

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
twrock @ 10/13/2005 2:02:48 PM # Q
"Bad news. Grandma's dead."
"What do you mean, she's dead?"
"Just what I said. She's dead."
"I was just in there talking with her not two minutes ago. She was fine."
"She's dead, I tell you. Go have a look for yourself."
"See there? She's sitting there talking to Aunt Sally. She's not dead."
"Yes she is. Look how old she is."
"Old is not dead."
"But she's been getting old for a very long time now, so she's dead."
"That doesn't mean she's dead. You must mean that she will probably be dead soon."
"No, that's not what I mean at all. Let me be CRYSTAL CLEAR - Grandma is DEAD."
"Whatever."

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
cervezas @ 10/13/2005 2:06:37 PM # Q
Wimax and voip will kill the cellcos.

Maybe. Given that Wimax deployment currently stands at zero it might be a little premature to declare it the victor.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 2:39:59 PM # Q
Wimax and voip will kill the cellcos.

as Cervezas stated, Wimax deployment stands at zero and someone has to pay for creating and installing WiMax infrastrutcture. Seeing how the telcos dug themselves into a hole by spending (and borrowing) billions for 3G infrastructure, I don't see investors coughing up yet more billions for yet another wireless standard anytime soon.

Look at how long it's taken to implement widespread Wi-fi access since its conception in 98/99. Cellular will be around tomorrow, it may not be around in 25 years but it'll definitely be around next year.

Another question is anyone come up with any apps which will take advantage of this super-duper WiMax anyway? Ok, maybe you can stream HD-TV onto your handheld but watching HD-TV on a tiny handheld screen sort of defeats the point.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
ChiA @ 10/13/2005 2:51:26 PM # Q
Regarding the horse analogy above
I live in Amish country

Funny, when making that post I had a feeling it would be inevitable that someone would bring up the Amish! ;-)

Sticking with the analogy, I felt it was appropriate as the horse, unlike the dinosaur, is still around, just that it's in the minority unless you're amongst the privileged few who live amongst the Amish!

So although you might not see them very often, there are many who do
Are you suggesting everyone in the states has gone Amish overnight? Truth be told, most people around the world (yes, even in developing countries) would not routinely see a horse on the road.

Funny how we've gone from the tungsten Tx to horses to the Amish!
I'm glad they've put that memory into it. It's a good device but no voice recording and no vibrating alarm are deal breakers for me. Now if they can put that memory into a forthcoming PalmOS Treo then Palm will be onto a winner!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
adamsmark @ 10/13/2005 3:43:34 PM # Q
No, non-cellular PDAs are not dead. Fact is, there is still a market for them, as evidenced by the introduction of these two PDAs... as was evidenced by the introduction of the T5, and so on.

As I can tolerate the small screen on the Treo 650, I use it as my main PDA. I still use my T3 for other activities, and there is a vast market that is not satisfied with any of the PDA cell phones. Until those improve (the 650 included), lots of folks will continue to carry two things.

The only aspect of your argument that is true is the question of functionality. What Palm offered in the 1990s would be totally inadequate today.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Gekko @ 10/13/2005 4:19:35 PM # Q

DEAD just like the Pager.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
adamsmark @ 10/13/2005 4:39:38 PM # Q
Sorry Gekko, didn't catch that last remark, my pager was beeping me.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
pmjoe @ 10/13/2005 5:34:19 PM # Q
The mobile phone radios themselves are becoming cheaper and cheaper. Next up will be mobile companies that more easily and cheaply handle multiple devices per account and you'll just have a radio in every device. You'll carry your phone when you want to, you'll carry your PDA when you want to and you'll carry both when you want to (plus other devices).

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2005 10:37:11 PM # Q
News!!!

SDIO Card coming soon with Quad-Band GSM, GPRS, EDGE, UHF, VHF, AM, FM, XM, Sirius, GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, WiMax, CDMA, EV-DO, iDen, 40ch CB, Ham, Microwave, & IR.

... works only on Windows Media devices as Palm has yet to write the drivers for it. A deal at $99, but sticks 36" out of the top of the SD slot and weighs 3.25lbs.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
Rhauer @ 10/13/2005 11:21:14 PM # Q
Would it be possible to have a PDA with either XM or sirrus. I love mp3 ability but it would be great to have sat radio as well.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
kal0el @ 10/17/2005 12:40:19 PM # Q
Gekko,

There's one situation you haven't accounted for - corporate standards. I work for a place that requires me to have a pager, since cellular telephones cannot be used in hospitals, airplanes, etc. I am also required to carry a cellular telephone to call back when I'm not on a plane, etc. Both of these are paid for by my company, but they won't pay for my PDA (I'm not high enough up the ladder).

Now, whay would I want another phone? By your account, the only PDA-like device I'ld be able to get is one with a phone. That's just silly.

By the posts I've read, there's more than just myself in this type of situation.

Besides, I like having different devices. An upgrade for one doesn't mean I have to change the others.

Anyway, it's clear you won't agree, so there's no need to respond.

RE: Last of the Dinosaurs - PDAs are DEAD Anyway
cervezas @ 10/17/2005 12:49:23 PM # Q
SDIO Card coming soon with Quad-Band GSM, GPRS, EDGE, UHF, VHF, AM, FM, XM, Sirius, GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, WiMax, CDMA, EV-DO, iDen, 40ch CB, Ham, Microwave, & IR.

What, no voice recorder? Sorry, that's a deal-breaker. What were they thinking?!

Thanks for the visual of a big herkin' Yagi Ham radio beam antenna hanging off my SD card slot, though. 'Course you'd need guy wires for those high wind situations, but I understand those retract into special reel housings on the side of the card.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:

kfife @ 10/12/2005 5:46:54 PM # Q
(and one not so heady issue)
1
Nobody seems to be talking aobut which bluetooth profiles are supported!! For example, can I connect to this with my BT Headset and listen to audio the way I can on my laptop or my cell phone? Can I use the BT file service profile to navigate to, and manage files stored on the device from my PC the way I can to my bluetooth laptop or bluetooth cell phone (to manage pictures for example)? For that matter, Can I navigate TO the file service on my cell or PC phone FROM the palm?
2
Nobody is talking about is whether there is NOW a REASONABLE way to manage files on the SD card (or at least ADD them) without using a dedicated SD card reader. It is VERY inconvenient with my Tungsten T2 to add files to the SD card using Hotsync (Quick Install) because it takes about 20 to 40 times longer to transfer a file than if I were using a dedicated SD reader. EVEN MORE INCONVENIENT is having to take the SD card out and put it into the reader, transfer the files, and move the SD card back to the palm!!
Has this been improved at all since the Tungsten T2 days? Am I right in assuming that the 'portable drive' model from the t5 are COMPLETELY absent, or have they only done away with the 'automatic synchronization' part, perhaps allowing me to drag and drop files onto the palm and sync them over at a reasonable speed.
3
WPA?
Does it only support weak WPA using TKIP, the same RC4 cipher used by WEP OR does the TX also support the REAL WPA using the fabulous AES cipher. Does it only support pre-shared secret keys or does it support "radius" or some other authentication service. In other words Full 802.11i WPA or Subset WPA?
4
VPN?
Says VPN is available with software. Is that INCLUDED software? Is it the same kludgey VPN model used by the Tungsten C, with which, you have to decide whether you want to have VPN ON or OFF, requiring you to either log in, typing in your password etc each time you access the web (every five minutes since the WIFI turns off to save power) OR take time out and monkey with the settings to turn VPN off for a while. It would be much better to connect to WiFi first, then ONLY to VPN if you need it. That's what the rest of the world does. It really maddening. A 10% better design would result in 90% less frustration.
5
SLOW email?
For some stupid reason my Tungsten C takes about twenty times longer than my 802.11b laptop on the same wireless network. Not a bit deal except that the handheld can't do this as a background operation.
6
Not heady
Is there any software out there that will transcode my DIVx encoded video and my more importantly my TIVO encoded files to the palm video applicaiton?

Why isn't anyone talking about these things? At least 5 of them are not trivial.

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
markcov @ 10/12/2005 6:05:51 PM # Q

I sure hope it does have WPA. And more so....that they'll port the wifi driver for the TX over to the SD WiFi. It would make my T5 much more useful, here's hoping.

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 3:18:48 AM # Q
As far as I'm aware, there's no BT headset support. I don't know about file transfer, as I've never been able to get that working with ANY device. If you want to be able to drag and drop with reasonable speed, I'd direct you towards CardExport II. It does much the same thing as the T5's drive mode.

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
svrontis @ 10/13/2005 6:53:51 AM # Q
Yeh. I remember when the drive mode on the T5 was introduced, this development was either drowned out by the 'no WiFi' complaints or people said it wasn't innovative because you could do the same thing with a MMC/SD card and Softick's Card Export II (great app, BTW). So it looks like Palm dropped the 'drive mode' feature, but supplied WiFi - who says they don't listen?

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
kfife @ 10/13/2005 3:25:25 PM # Q
Softick also has a program called BlueFiles which makes your SD card a bluetooth file service!!! Pretty cool. I've not tried it yet, but between that and Card Export II, I've got everything I need as far as palm file management is concened. I only wish it were more 'automatic' meaning I wish I wouldn't have to open the app and run it in order for those services to be available. I guess there's only one USB port and one BT radio, so only one app can be using it at a time. Maybe eventually the hardware will be managed by the OS and virtulaized for the apps, allowing dynamic allocation much the same way modern OS's do.

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
jonabbey @ 10/19/2005 12:50:00 AM # Q
It does indeed have WPA2 with AES and PSK. I'm using it with my home Wi-Fi network, and I've got it locked down as securely as possible.

Wi-Fi on the TX is great, really. I was previously using a Sony TJ-37 with Wi-Fi, and due to the lack of WPA and the smaller screen, I almost never made use of the Wi-Fi. The TX is considerably faster, and the web browser, and especially the Wi-Fi management software, is MUCH better than the Sony had.

I'm using Quick News to pull down RSS feeds and Podcasts wirelessly, and I love it. I'm just kicking myself because I only bought a 128meg SD card, thinking I wouldn't have any more use for a storage card than I did on the Sony. I find myself wanting to load hundreds of megs of Podcasts onto the thing.

The sound quality is actually quite good on it, incidentally, both with the speaker and using earphones. I give it thumbs up so far.

RE: 5 Heady issues that nobody is talking about:
svrontis @ 10/19/2005 3:27:26 AM # Q
> is MUCH better than the Sony had.

You better duck for cover. Saying Palm does anything better than Sony is 'fightin words' over here at PIC.

Glad you like your new TX - please keep us up to do date on how it's working out.

Reply to this comment

Minor error in story

markcov @ 10/12/2005 6:08:45 PM # Q
You posted
"The USB cable alone will not charge the handheld from the computer, you must attach the AC cord."

If you check, the USB cord *will* charge the PDA, albeit very slowly. It does not connect the two pins on the multi-connector so the PDA *knows* it is being charged. But a current is still flowing. I find that it charges at a much slower rate, but charging still occurs. Try it out.

markcov

Reply to this comment

How much REAL RAM?

kal0el @ 10/12/2005 9:54:45 PM # Q
G'Day,

I have at least one application (Pendragon Forms) that will only run (& store) in RAM. I also like to have all my programs (even games) in RAM, for faster access. I've found I can't make due without at least 64Mb RAM.

Can anyone tell me how much RAM shows up on a TX? Will applications actually see the 128Mb (minus whatever)?

Thanx

RE: How much REAL RAM?
hkklife @ 10/13/2005 3:21:17 PM # Q
~101mb

RE: How much REAL RAM?
AdamaDBrown @ 10/15/2005 3:16:40 AM # Q
The 101 MB isn't "real RAM," but it is treated as application memory for storage purposes. You'll be fine.

RE: How much REAL RAM?
kal0el @ 10/17/2005 12:47:32 PM # Q
Thanx.
RE: How much REAL RAM?
Out On A Limb @ 10/18/2005 8:36:30 PM # Q
"Storage purposes" might be the key for you. If the TX is like the T5 and has 10 MB of RAM available for running your app (app + databases needed at any one time), that may pose a problem. Of course, for many apps that 10 MB is plenty. For the price, I'm guessing (having seen any documentation from Palm detailing this) the TX has the same size RAM as the T5. Anyone know for certain?

RE: How much REAL RAM?
kal0el @ 10/19/2005 12:07:42 PM # Q
OOAL,

I think you're right once, and a bit off second.

First, "storage purposes" is on the money. The key, I believe, is how much "RAM" the applications think is available. Whether it's real RAM or not doesn't seem to matter to the applications.

Second, I had a T5, and there were no problems with how it handled memory. Since the OS reported roughly 64Mb (minus whatever), the applications that demanded RAM (i.e., wouldn't use card storage) ran fine.

The exception to this "RAM" is "RAM" rule would be the Lifedrive, but only as far as performance goes. Since the 64Mb "RAM" actually uses a hard drive partition, while the applications may run OK, seeing 64Mb or so, the applications would encounter the latency problem, and run a little slower.

Thanx for your post.

I've been around the block once or twice - Pilot 1000, PalmPilot Personal, 2Mb OS3 Upgrade, IIIc, m505, Tungsten T, Tungsten T3, Tungsten T5, Tapwave Zodiac 2.

Reply to this comment

Grafitti One Works!

cnegrad @ 10/12/2005 10:11:39 PM # Q
It is reported that the Grafitti 1 hack works. Yes!

-cnegrad
RE: Grafitti One Works!
fierywater @ 10/12/2005 10:16:43 PM # Q
that makes my day.

RE: Grafitti One Works!
epp_b @ 10/13/2005 1:17:08 AM # Q
Made your day? Shoot! That made my YEAR. Can you tell us where you heard/read/found out about it?

Are you referring to that 5.4 re-hack of the original Graffiti 1 files for the T|T5 and T650?

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}

RE: Grafitti One Works!
twrock @ 10/13/2005 1:54:51 AM # Q
Hmm..., I'm starting to suspect Palm keeps leaving this "option" open on purpose. If so, thanks Palm.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: Grafitti One Works!
cnegrad @ 10/13/2005 9:41:39 AM # Q
RE: Grafitti One Works!
tuvor @ 6/4/2006 4:37:19 PM # Q
Lucky for you. I've done this before on a Zire 71 and 72, and I followed the directions to the letter. Ended up getting stuck in a splash screen loop and had to hard reset everything.

YMMV.

Reply to this comment

Screen noise?

epp_b @ 10/13/2005 1:30:01 AM # Q
To anyone who impulsively buys one of these things...let us know about the screen!

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}
RE: Screen noise?
Take1 @ 10/13/2005 5:30:18 AM # Q
I am wondering about this myself.

I am reluctant to buy any Palm device as of late due to screen quality issues. The screen whine (which I have experienced on a T2 and TE)seems to be pervasive throughout the different models (including the T5).

Another irksome thing Palm does/did is use great looking Sony screens (bright with even color balance) and lousy Sharp screens (dimmer with a odd yellow tint). Has Palm finally decided to go with a single, good LCD manufacturer (or heck two GOOD LCD manufacturers) or are they still mixing the good with the bad on the newer devices?

I wouldn't hesitate to get a TX if I could be assured a fantastic display with rich color where white actually is white, not an off blue or yellow color.

RE: Screen noise?
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 6:03:28 PM # Q
No screen whine on mine. Obviously, I can't be sure whether they're using one screen or two, but mine looks good, with no off-tinting that I've noticed.

RE: Screen noise?
epp_b @ 10/16/2005 10:06:02 PM # Q
That's good to hear...hopefully, you're in the majority, or -- better yet -- this is the case from now on (no screen whine).

Keep us posted, please. This screen whine issue sometimes seems to creep up after time.

RE: Screen noise?
T. @ 10/17/2005 12:11:50 AM # Q
No noise.....yet.

RE: Screen noise?
T. @ 10/17/2005 12:13:05 AM # Q
And the purchase WAS impulsive. I guess it is a phase.

I told my wife it could have been worse. I stopped by the Harley shop before I went over to Best Buy.

RE: Screen noise?
epp_b @ 10/17/2005 4:43:06 PM # Q
["I told my wife it could have been worse. I stopped by the Harley shop before I went over to Best Buy."]

Heh, heh...yeah ;)

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}

RE: Screen noise?
kfife @ 10/26/2005 11:28:13 AM # Q
No noise here whatsoever. My t2 was terrible that way.
Speaking of noise, the SOUND of the MP3 player is 1000 times better than T2, even with the audio patch!!
-Karl

RE: Screen noise?
JoJo_Forever @ 3/30/2006 2:28:19 AM # Q
oh there are is screen noise and its really bad on mine i use mine on a daily basis and the whine is only knoticeable to me but still its there i found a program that gets rid of it but it cost $10.95USD but it eliminates screen noise and it can also overclock you processor or underclock the name of the program is called "warp-speed" heres a link

http://palmpowerups.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=3

Reply to this comment

Palm Still in the Game

Gryphon @ 10/13/2005 9:40:24 AM # Q
Though I will not say this is "too little, too late," I will say that it's too late... for me.

I find it interesting that some people on here post opinions as facts. Such as this being the death of wince, wince users will defect to Palm, etc.

Unless someone uses their PDA as nothing more than a PIM, one does not migrate to another platform lightly. As others have stated in here, there is a significant investment in software, accessories, and data.

I was one of the unfortunate people to buy a T|W as an interim device before Palm released my “ultimate PDA”—since Palm stuck my new wireless PDA with OS 4. When Palm bought the Treo, everyone (including Palm) forgot my T|W so I waited for the first Cobalt device. Cobalt is dead. I saw that integrated devices were going to be smart phones. I, personally, don’t like smart phones because of the small screens. I also don’t like putting my cheek up against my monitor, but that’s just me. I finally resigned myself to the fact that I was going to need a PDA with Bluetooth connectivity to a mobile phone, and that I wouldn’t get a fully integrated device (the HTC Universal has proven me wrong, but I just can’t bring myself to spend $1,200 for a PDA/phone).

The T|X is a device that would have kept me in the Palm camp if it had been released a YEAR AGO, when the Windows Mobile world was offering them. Yes, it’s only $299 (msrp), but that’s probably what it would be discounted to now if they had released it for $499 a year ago. Yes, the comparable Dell is technically $499, but it also has a VGA screen… which is a thing of beauty.

I won’t make any dire predictions about the future of the non-phone PDA market. But I do know that the average person I run into would rather have a smart phone. Even with a Motorola V551 and Cingular’s MediaNet, someone can get e-mail, check stock prices, keep a calendar and their contacts, etc. I just hate doing all that on that tiny screen—with no touch screen. I tried telling people I could do that on my PDA via a Bluetooth connection with my cell phone and I basically got looks that said, “This one goes to eleven.” They see no advantage to using a second device to do the things they can do on their phone. Other questions were along the lines of, “Why would you need to do that?” My only answer was, “Because I CAN!”

Based on the smart-phone to PDA sales ratio, I would say that most people don’t share my opinion about the small screen.

As for my Windows Mobile Device: I love it. As the work environment has gotten more restrictive (not allowed to sync any non-Blackberry device to my computer), it has become my personal laptop. I sit at work with it laying in the stand for my Bluetooth keyboard, wirelessly connected to my cell phone, checking e-mails, writing some docs, updating spreadsheets, managing my finances, etc. At lunch, it goes with me on my walk as an MP3 player. In the evenings, at home with Wi-Fi, it allows me to surf the imdb while watching videos. Until yesterday, Palm did not have a single device that allowed me to do all those things (except maybe the LD-but I have yet to hear many good things about it). My Axim X50v is not a “brick” by any means. It’s the same size as my T|W. Maybe my T|W is a brick by today’s standards, but I compare my replacement devices to what they are replacing.

I love my Axim. Does it work flawlessly all the time? No. Did my Palm(s) work flawlessly all the time? No. When I switched over to Windows Mobile, I got excited about PDAs again. There’s a lot of innovation going on where accessories and hardware are concerned. I don’t see as many (esp. hardware) vendors developing for the Palm platform as they were when I got my VIIx. The Windows Mobile world (beyond just Dell and HP) gave me hope for the PDA future again. Now that Palm has released the kind of device I wanted a year ago, will I go back? Not on your life. I don’t know of many others who would either. Do I disdain Palm and Palm devices now that I've switched? Not on your life.

I see an element of “world domination” here. People want their team to win over all others. It reminds me a great deal of the “My dad can beat up your dad!” debates I had when I was five. On here it’s Palm vs. Window Mobile. But there are also Symbian and RIM. This isn’t a chess game between two players. It’s a Risk game with at least four, if not more. Or maybe it’s more like Diplomacy. RIM is licensing their software to expand their hardware market. Palm is installing other OSs to expand their software market. If anyone can look at the board right now and predict the outcome—with only one team left standing—then they have some real powers of prestidigitation that they should try to make some money with. Every time I think I know what’s going to happen in the market, someone like RIM makes some move that changes everything.

All I can honestly predict from the release of the T|X is that Palm is still solidly in the game. Palm loyalists, who held out longer than I (and others like me) did, can stay loyal. Is the T|X perfect? No. But it’s good enough to compete with what else is out there… especially at that price.

I think the next year is going to be a very interesting one, where the PDA market is concerned.

-Gryphon

RE: Palm Still in the Game
Ervool @ 10/13/2005 3:26:26 PM # Q

Good comments here.

I am of the few/many that held to their old Tungstens waiting for a replacemente from Palm. If Palm had released the TX instead of the T5 a year ago I am sure it would have improved its market share in a substantial way (not only for the specs. but for the price).

Palm has made many mistakes over the years, still the old PalmOS is the best OS for PDA's in the market (IMHO). I really hope Palm stays in the game so we don't have another MS monopoly in the PDA market...

RE: Palm Still in the Game
R-I-P @ 10/13/2005 3:42:05 PM # Q
Well, in my opinion, the fact that you pay attention to Palm leaves open the door that you may return. I know I have been back and forth a few times. I found Palm devices to work better with my Mac. Go figure.

Until I seen this, I was about to jump ship too now that connectivity with the Macintosh is improving for WinCE devices. What's holding me up is Pocket Quicken. Doesn't have a Mac conduit for that software yet for the WinCE side.

For me, this price point is killer and now I doubt I will be using a WinCE device again for a while.

In case you are wondering, the very simplified reason I left WinCE; not only did I buy a Mac, I hated then and still do the memory management scheme. They also exhibit similar issues with registry problems and strange behavior after removal and installation of software as the desktop PC's. Since I don't believe computers should work like that I purchased a Mac. The rest is history.

RE: Palm Still in the Game
Gryphon @ 10/13/2005 5:09:49 PM # Q
I'm open to any PDA that will do what I want a PDA to do. Right now the leader would be the HTC Universal, but the size and price are negative factors. However, it's the first device to show itself as my definition of the "ultimate PDA"--and it happens to be a WM device.

I will always have a soft spot for Palm since it was the gift of a Palm VIIx that introduced me to the world of PDAs. Palm took me from, "What would I do with one of those?" to "What would I do without one?"

Now I am just a mobile computing junkie with an emphasis on PDAs--and further emphasis on my current OS--so I like to watch all of it. Keeping tabs on the industry as a whole makes you realize this isn't about the T|X vs. the X51v or any two devices or any two manufacturers.

With Palm using Windows Mobile on one of their devices, and RIM licensing their software for other OS’s and devices, the PDA hardware is becoming much more commoditized, like the mobile phone market (and PC’s for that matter).

I’m beginning to think it may not be too far fetched that some day we may see Windows Mobile running on a Palm device and getting push mail from a Blackberry server. Mix and match as you like. Bill may not let that happen, but many other combinations could be possible. I think the days of a PDA OS running on proprietary hardware are coming to a close. And that means dominance is still up for grabs. But just like the desktop world, the PDA/smart-phone battle will be decided in the corporate sector. And all sides are going all out for that right now.

Honestly, it’s both fun and frustrating to watch. It is because of all this competition that my ultimate PDA has seen the light of day. But every two years or so I’m left asking… “Do I change platforms?” The most nerve-wracking day will be when there are four or more devices like the HTC Universal, only as small as my Axim, all around the $500 range, with 16GB flash drives, and all running different OS’s. Since I don't define myself by the brand of gadget I buy, it will be a tough choice. But what a choice to be burdened with!


RE: Palm Still in the Game
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 6:08:52 PM # Q
Excellent commentary, and very timely. I'm right there with you.

RE: Palm Still in the Game
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2005 10:02:28 PM # Q
I, personally, don’t like smart phones because of the small screens. I also don’t like putting my cheek up against my monitor, but that’s just me.

No, a lot of others agree with you. Current smarthone screens are too small for many of us. But with a more intelligent design (like LiveFaith's "Treo 800g":

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg

or the HTC Universal, eventually more and more people will switch to smartphones.

Well written post, by the way. Nice to see some people THIHKING about what they say at Palminfocenter. (I'll refrain from commenting about the verbal diarrhea that Jeff Kirvin has been spewing here...)


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm Still in the Game
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2005 11:03:08 PM # Q
VR,

Man, where do I send your free cookie to?

Every time I hear that small screen comment, I drift off into the dreamy utopian world of the Treo 800g and 480v. Nvertheless, it seems that it will be the 800w which will first see the light of day.

480v
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo480v.jpg

800g
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800g.jpg

800w
http://www.churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800w.jpg

L-N-M
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/Pix/lochnessmonster.jpg

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Palm Still in the Game
2xs @ 10/14/2005 3:03:30 AM # Q
>> Excellent commentary, and very timely. I'm right there with you.


DITO !

RE: Palm Still in the Game
Ba-gug @ 10/19/2005 12:43:46 PM # Q
Good thoughts on the Palm/PPC views. I recently bought a Dell x50v and am very pleased, it isn't perfect, neither were my many Palm's the Dell just fits my current needs better. I was hopeful the T/X might fit the bill, it didn't at least for me.

"Hambug or Ba-gug, that's me.!"
RE: Palm Still in the Game
DavisC @ 11/1/2005 7:50:34 PM # Q
I've gone back and forth a number of times. Damn Palm and their late release of this device. I would of opted for the T|X over my Axim X50V.
Gryphon: very cogent observation, it is refreshing to hear a reasonable approach to the MS vs Palm (and others) as opposed to some of the frothing and lambasting that goes on here.


Reply to this comment

Processor Speed

Caspian @ 10/13/2005 10:50:44 AM # Q
This new handheld will likely be the replacement for my TH55. I like the TH55, but have found it painfully slow when running the new version of Mapopolis. Does anyone know, or have an opinion based on their experience, how the T|X processor compares to the TH55?

David
Palm III> Palm IIIx> Palm IIIc> Sony T615> Sony T665> Sony TH55
RE: Processor Speed
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 6:14:23 PM # Q
Faster by leaps and bounds. The 123 MHz processor in the TH55 may have been great for battery life, but it wasn't much of a speed demon. The TX will be faster, even taking the flash memory into account.

Reply to this comment

Wall Wart Report

cnegrad @ 10/13/2005 3:12:33 PM # Q
Hi all,

Just got my Tx, and can't tell you much as it was completely dead at first opening. I'll have to let it charge for a few hours before messing with it. But this much I can tell you: It has an "average sized" wall wart. Not a small one, like many cell phones do, and not a huge one either. It's what you imagine when you think of "your basic average typical" wall wart.

-cnegrad

RE: Wall Wart Report
R-I-P @ 10/13/2005 3:52:55 PM # Q
Call me stupid if you find doing so to make you feel good, but what the heck is a wall wart?

RE: Wall Wart Report
R-I-P @ 10/13/2005 3:56:01 PM # Q
Nevermind.

I'll stick with power supply.

RE: Wall Wart Report
kfife @ 10/13/2005 4:14:39 PM # Q
A wall wart AKA wall rat, AKA transformer block

RE: Wall Wart Report
pmjoe @ 10/13/2005 5:45:05 PM # Q
Don't they tell you to charge most devices like this, completely, before using them?

RE: Wall Wart Report
AdamaDBrown @ 10/13/2005 6:16:15 PM # Q
Yes, but that's usually to avoid panicked calls to tech support saying "My new Palm just died!" when it simply had a dead battery. Modern Lithium Ion cells don't require conditioning the way older batteries did.

Reply to this comment

TX, Keyboard, & Treo = laptop replacement

craigdts @ 10/15/2005 10:31:51 AM # Q
I'm thinking if I get a TX, a keyboard, and keep my treo 650 I will be able to leave my laptop behind. The reason why I didn't totally leave behind the laptop was the small screen on the treo, left too much to be desired. But Now with the TX and its great price I may have a solution.

I can get online using my 650, connect it to the TX and keyboard as basically be able to do email and web browsing on a beautiful screen.

Then for note taking in Word the TX and keyboard will serve me well. I have my bible apps (main thing I don't want to leave behind thats on my powerbook) on Palm anyways.

I will still carry a bag, but I can leave the laptop behind and fill it with books and paperwork (I've needed more room lately).

The TX and Treo are looking more and more like a great solution for my needs.

Has anyone else tried this combination?

RE: TX, Keyboard, & Treo = KLUDGE
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/15/2005 3:01:55 PM # Q
If you're planning on carrying a keyboard around with you all the time, this sounds like a kludge. A PDA with an integrated keyboard like the UX50 makes more sense. Or a microlaptop running Real Windows. Sony is expected to add an integrated keyboard to its 1 pound U-xx line and this will be the revolution many have been waiting for in mobile computing. Paired with a smartphone like the Treo 800g http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg mobile professionals will finally have the ULTIMATE setup.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: TX, Keyboard, & Treo = laptop replacement
twrock @ 10/15/2005 9:02:21 PM # Q
Has anyone else tried this combination?

Not the Treo part, just a dumbphone. But I do always have the Palm IR keyboard in one of the small pockets in the backpack I carry (never could live with a briefcase). My Palm is always with me, and I don't use the keyboard until I'm going to do some serious text entry. This combo really works well for me and often saves me from having to take my laptop with me on shorter trips. Tiny keypads (Treo, etc.) are just don't work for me. For meetings, the keyboard is often out, letting me quickly enter a lot of text as the need dictates. It'll get an initial curious look from some of the laptop users at the meeting, but that's in. Of course YMMV.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

RE: TX, Keyboard, & Treo = laptop replacement
craigdts @ 10/15/2005 9:46:02 PM # Q
When I had a treo 600, I had a keyboard and it worked pretty well to take notes.

But now I want a better screen and the TX is a great value. Due to the nature of my work I'm carrying around books and my laptop takes up space. I only need to take notes in a meeting or in a classroom on occassion. I'd love the landscape to take native Word docs in. In some meeting's a laptop just doesn't seem appropriate to me, while a TX and keyboard would.

I've pretty much made up my mind that I'm getting a TX for that purpose.

RE: TX, Keyboard, & Treo = laptop replacement
kal0el @ 10/17/2005 1:03:23 PM # Q
You might try what I use:

http://www.eholster.com/

I wear suspenders & golf shirts typically (no fashion advice, please), so hanging a bunch of stuff on my pants doesn't work. The e-Holster lets me carry around, well, pretty much anything I want. My fully-packed configuration has consisted of:

- PDA
- keyboard
- phone
- pager
- glasses
- medications
- wallet
- Swiss Army knife
- SDcard drive
- corporate ID access card (on tether)

all at the same time.

And you won't look like a geek if you wear it under a vest, etc., like I do.

I highly recommend them.

RE: TX, Keyboard, & Treo = laptop replacement
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 9:35:45 AM # Q
Looks like VOR was right. Instead of developers diversifying (as David Beers said) some significant developers chose to cut development costs by concentrating on the growing platform.

Jean wrote at considerable length about his decision and his history developing for Palm OS. It had nothing to do with wanting to concentrate on "the growing platform." It had everything to do with Palm/PalmSource's inability to specify how OS features will work and stick to the specification. Every new device implements the dynamic input area differently, for example, and requires Textware to roll out a new product just for that device. So, yes, cost was a factor but not because there wasn't strong demand for Palm software products but because these products were too costly to maintain and support for all the different devices.

It should also be noted that Textware wrote a very different kind of software for Palm from what most of us develop. Fitaly is an OS extension (hack) that depended on APIs that Palm/PalmSource made no promise would remain stable. That made his business particularly vulnerable to this problem. But I fully understand his frustration and agree that PalmSource's failure to establish and enforce specifications has hurt the platform more than the extra margin of freedom it afforded to licensees helped it.

I'm an enthusiastic Fitaly user and I'm sad that it won't be available on the TX or future Palm devices.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)

hkklife @ 10/15/2005 8:58:43 PM # Q
There seems to be the same issue(s) with the BT stack on the TX that there was with th LD as far as connecting via BT DUN to the V710 and the E815.

Whether it's due to VZW's crippling of that phone or the lack of CDMA BT drivers from Palm, I am experiencing the same issues I had with the LD & my phone.

When using the proper init string (+Mode=2), I can dial my contacts from the TX (or LD) to my V710. However, I CANNOT get a DUN connection to hold steady for longer than a minute or so. If I am lucky I can transfer ~30-60k before it drops.

This is now becomg a MAJOR issue (both of Palm's latest flagship PDAs are basically non-compliant with CDMA BT phones) and I am sick & tired of the hacker community/Verizon Moto users/Palm owners/Palm ignoring this issue.

It's beyond my means to hack firmware/seams but someone needs to address this issue ASAP. Sprint has also taken to crippling their BT phones which can only mean trouble for the ignored CDMA phone/Palm PDA users like us out there. The way Palm acts, you'd think GSM was a global standard or something (TONGUE IN CHEEK) and CDMA had <2% marketshare in the US.

I got my hands on an E815 today and got the same (possibly less reliable) results with than my V710 on the TX. My next step is to try PhoneLine Updater and every combination of driver & init string imaginable.

Until someone addresses this issue, however, only the older BT Palms (T|T, T2, T3, Z72, T5, E2) work with on the Moto V710 & E815 for dial-up connections. The LD and TX *DO NOT*. Presumably, all future Palms will be incompatible as well.

This is OBVIOUSLY their intent (VZW & Palm are likely in cahoots) to push their USA-based customers (where CDMA is king) to WinMob Treos & pricey EVDO data plans.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)
tthiel @ 10/16/2005 12:33:31 AM # Q
So are you going to go around posting to every site with a Palm forum about your Palm/Verizon conspiracy theory? Brighthand not enough for you?

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)
hkklife @ 10/16/2005 1:18:36 AM # Q
That comment doesn't even warrant a reply from this end. Go back to Brighthand/1src where you and your kind belong. I'm here to tell it like it is and pull no punches doing so.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)
hkklife @ 10/16/2005 1:20:38 AM # Q
BTW:

The conspiracy bit is my THEORY. I'll gladly accept any suggestions you have to the contrary on why the flagship Palm PDA fails to work with two very popular, high-end Motorola handsets that have full DUN support available (either out of the box or easily hackable).

Yet the FACT of the matter is that the TX & LD are incompatible with the Moto BT phones on Verizon. If I were in the market for a TX and owned one of those handsets I'd gladly appreciate reading about it on my favorite POS-related site and I figured that there might be a few happy-go-lucky chums who frequent Brighthand and not PIC (being that a lot of PIC traffic is front page only whereas the Brighthand forums are quite active).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--PLEASE BUY THE TX
T. @ 10/16/2005 2:19:51 AM # Q
Once we get by all the theories, maybe we can get around to solving this problem.

I just got my TX. I had a few problems with installation, just like with my T3, thinking I could just let the CD upgrade me. Crash city. I renamed my account and started from scratch and just like with the T3 that worked much better.

I've only tried a few apps and so far "SmartList To Go" resets it. and PXA Clocker does not understand the device.

I will try the BT connection with my V710 tomorrow but like I mentioned in the discussion forums I may not be using it the way others do (I use it as a dialup modem to AT&T Worldnet at 14.4k).


RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)
hkklife @ 10/16/2005 11:10:45 AM # Q
T.

I agre, let's get these childish name-calling behind us and face the fact that there's simply a matter that needs to be addressed/resolved.

Can you believe I still maintain a $10/month Earthlink account for when I am out in the sticks or on the road and have to use dial-up on my laptop.

I am going to test today whether or not I can simply dial into Earthlink (since I have America's Choice on Verizon it doesn't matter if it's a local # or not) as a stopgap solution until I can use vzw3g login over BT.

Let's keep everyone posted!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or
pmjoe @ 10/19/2005 12:06:37 AM # Q
As far as I know, Verizon doesn't support dial up networking on the e815. Sucks, but it sounds like Verizon, at least for a while, isn't planning to support dial up networking on its Bluetooth phones. Hopefully they will wise up at some point on providing features that all the other vendors already provide.

Wish I had a v710 to try it with, but it probably comes down to having the right modem init strings to do dial up. If you're trying to do a 1xRTT connection, it's probably something like: AT$QCMDR=3;AT$QCQNC=0

If you're fed up with your v710, give it to me. ;)

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or
ev1langel @ 10/19/2005 11:00:23 AM # Q
FWIW: I have purchased a Palm T|X and have a Verizon Wireless Motorola E815. And I can confirm that DUN over bluetooth *does* work and is quite fast. This is on a seem-edited E815 with DUN enabled via ##DIALUP.

There are some quirks:

1. I found that I had some trouble pairing the phone with the Palm T|X (constantly getting "invalid PIN" errors). I reboot of the E815 solved the problem. Evidently, the phone will not pair correctly with a lot of things if you've previously used it with a headset or other bluetooth device and haven't rebooted.

2. Blazer has a quirk in that if you connect and THEN launch Blazer, the connection is lost and then blazer can't seem to figure out how to connect. However, if you launch Blazer without connecting and have the BT-E815 connection set as your default, then Blazer will auto-connect and everything will be fine.

I have not managed to get SMS-over-BT working however.

RE: ATTN: Verizon V710/E815 Palm users--DON'T BUY THE TX (or LD)
hkklife @ 10/19/2005 12:22:48 PM # Q
I never got SMS over BT to work with ANY BT-enabled Palm device.

I wonder if the seem edits are the trick here?

I tried my TX on a fresh non-hacked E815, did the usual ##dialup trick and still could not maintain a connection longer than 2 mins. (using any number of drivers).

AFAIK this 815 had never been used with a previous BT device. I'll delete some of the pairings and repower the phone next oppportunity I get to test the TX & the 815 again.

How about VersaMail? What if you launch Blazer, then connect, do your web stuff then switch over to VersaMail? Is the connection lost or is it maintained?


Folks, the E815 and V710 are NEARLY the same as far as BT DUN. On the V710 DUN is enabled by default (but not OBEX but that's not an issue for PDA usage). On th E815, all it takes is rapidly keying in ##dialup to reenable DUN permanently.

LOL, if i get that fed up with the V710, I'll either use my class-action freebie and get an E815 (assuming it can be made to work reliably with the TX/LD), a CDMA RAZR (assuming it ever shows up and works on the TX), one of the new Samsung A970s (assuming they support BT DUN) or just jump ship & go Cingular (unlikely).

Basically, I/we need to find a Verizon BT solution that works with the TX!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Reply to this comment

no way am i reading all 240+ posts...

lyssa @ 10/16/2005 1:54:40 AM # Q
This sounds like the pda I'm going to buy after I get the money. But I'm wary of when products say they require win/mac. I read The description on the palm site before this site and I want to know if anybody has successfully just used this and sync'd it with linux only? I hope it doesn't NEED any desktop software to function properly. Pardon me I haven't needed to buy a new pda since my m505 is still running perfectly :) So I don't know if the later palms integrate so much more into MS Windows/Apple that they don't work via usb->linux anymore? Can I still use 'pilot-xfer' with this t|x?

RE: no way am i reading all 240+ posts...
jonabbey @ 10/19/2005 12:58:23 AM # Q
I have not yet been successful at syncing my TX against my Fedora Core 4 system, using either coldsync 3.0-pre4, or pilot-link 0.12pre4. I have my system set up to properly create /dev/pilot, and the permissions are all okay, but they just don't seem to actually sync.

I have on a couple of occasions gotten coldsync to start to handshake with the TX when using the '-t usb' driver option, but it then hangs fairly quickly.

More investigation needed here, I'm afraid.

On the other hand, if you've got an SD card and a decent reader, you can get files onto your TX pretty rapidly as a work around, until such time as someone figures out and posts how to sync to the TX with Linux.

Reply to this comment

WPA Enterprise?

batmon @ 10/17/2005 8:11:32 AM # Q
Does it support WPA Enterprise? Does it take cerificate? My company only allows WPA TKIP with MS Raidus authenication (PEAP) and MS certificate.

Thanks.

Reply to this comment

Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!

sr4 @ 10/18/2005 4:16:43 PM # Q

After years of Palm propaganda and now increasing resistance to his fantasies, Jeff finally blew it today. He basically told all Clie users to buzz off and get Win mobile devices, or get with the program and get devices that are 2 years late. Now he's threatening to leave his propaganda post and go back to fiction written, which is especially ironic, considering thats all he has been doing the last few years.

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?p=861792

Surur
(No. 1 Jeff Kirvin Appreciation Club)

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
medevilenemy @ 10/18/2005 5:45:23 PM # Q
And now i fully understand why you were banned from the forums Surur... and i'm beginning to believe you should be completely banned from the site.

Why dont you stop insulting people, and the standard pessemistic stuff, and go crawl back into that damp dank cave you came from.


RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
sr4 @ 10/18/2005 6:10:33 PM # Q
MedEvilEnemy, do you have a problem with the truth? Do you prefer illusion to despair? J.K. would be your kind of guy then. He loves pulling the wool over people's eyes, especially people who want to believe.

Unfortunately reality has a nasty habit of coming up and smacking you in the face when you walk around with closed eyes. J.K. is finding that you can fool some of the people all of the time (j.k. fan club?), and all of the people some of the time, but eventually the truth will catch up on you.

Surur

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
medevilenemy @ 10/18/2005 8:11:35 PM # Q
I must insist you stop this Surur. The more you continue with this insulting nonsense, the more I (and the rest of the forum watchers) believe that you are an extremely pathetic person. Try coming up with something CONSTRUCTIVE to say, or dont say anything at all.

(And yes i know i'm not being constructive myself at the moment, but i'm trying to rid us all of your nonsense)

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
svrontis @ 10/18/2005 8:13:13 PM # Q
I don't understand why some people have such a fixation with what Kirvan does or does not do. He will just go with the money (eg, like the time he switched to WinCE/PPC/whatever, only to switch back again when the checks stopped coming from Redmond).

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
sr4 @ 10/18/2005 8:56:48 PM # Q

Oh, I firmly believe exposing Kirvin's follies is doing a service to the POS community. Many people take his pronouncements seriously, while no-one really should. His pernicious influence is seen all over the message boards (look at the 'VAR' meme). Think of me as part of the 5th Estate.

Surur

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/18/2005 11:18:59 PM # Q
Oh, I firmly believe exposing Kirvin's follies is doing a service to the POS community. Many people take his pronouncements seriously, while no-one really should. His pernicious influence is seen all over the message boards (look at the 'VAR' meme).

Kirvin is the definition of a False Prophet.


Think of me as part of the 5th Estate.

Surur


Or is that the Fifth column?

:-) ;-) ;-P


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
medevilenemy @ 10/19/2005 7:45:22 AM # Q
That would indeed be the fifth column.

Surur, Kirvin is simply a man with his own ideas (well supported ones at that) which he shares with the community. Stop slandering the guy and try to express your own origional ideas (these being of the non-slanderous kind). Why dont you go post your nonsense somewhere else, you're not wanted here (except by your other "fifth estate" members)

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
sr4 @ 10/19/2005 8:36:23 AM # Q
Oh no! My misfortune to run into a Kirvin believer. Answer me this then:

If Kirvin spoke in a forest and there was no-one to hear him, would he still be wrong?

Surur

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 8:44:56 AM # Q
Say what you will about your selfless "public service," Surer, but your endless Jeff Kirvin reports insult our intelligence and they do make you look kind of pathetic.

Kirvin is lucky to have a detractor who rushes off to every Palm site and posts links to everything he does. I'm sure you increase his traffic.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Jeff Kirvin threatening to leave 1src!
medevilenemy @ 10/19/2005 3:49:07 PM # Q
Who said i was a Kirvin believer? Granted, i agree with alot of what he says, but that is because i agree with it. Some of what he says seems nonsensical, but alot is perfectly logical.

Optimism is a good thing to have, Surur... Try to get some, and come back when you do but until then, please dont post again.

Reply to this comment

No Textwave for the TX

sr4 @ 10/18/2005 6:50:39 PM # Q
Something to add to the TX review.

We are terminating all Palm OS Developments as of today, October 17, 2005. Our future PDA developments will all be based on the Pocket PC operating system. This is where we are likely to meet Palm devices again -- such as the Treo 700w. (Alan Jay Weiner will now be working to port Instant Text Mobile to the Pocket PC Platform.)
In Addition, we will concentrate on the Tablet PC and continue to expand our very succesfull Instant Text business on the PC.

This means we wil not do T/X versions of our products. We'll continue to sell existing Palm OS products. In addition, customer who bought our products on prior devices in recent months and had expected to use them on the T/X will be entitled to use our unconditional money-back guarantee.

Jean Ichbiah


http://fitaly.com/board/palmfitaly/posts/5082.html

Looks like VOR was right. Instead of developers diversifying (as David Beers said) some significant developers chose to cut development costs by concentrating on the growing platform.

Surur

RE: No Textwave for the TX
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/18/2005 10:50:46 PM # Q
Looks like VOR was right. Instead of developers diversifying (as David Beers said) some significant developers chose to cut development costs by concentrating on the growing platform.

Can you blame them?

a) The smell of DEATH is upon PalmOS.
b) Palm and PalmSource have treated developers like lepers.
c) How often can you kick a dog (break a developer's apps/fail to provide any semblance of support) before they run away from "home" looking for a kindly family to take them in?
d) Momentum and downward spirals are difficult to stop.
e) Developer resources are finite and Palm/PalmSource's confused OS "strategy" (PalmOS 4/PalmOS 5/Cobalt (PalmOS 6)/PalmLinux (PalmOS 7)/PalmSource Linux featurephone OS/Palm Linux featurephone OS instills panic among the herd of developers, quickly leading to a stampede away from PalmOS.

Why the he11 would Palm/PalmSource continually tout the number of apps as well as the (bogus) number of developers on PalmOS, yet then turn around and treat said developers like crap? That mystery ranks right up there with crop circles and US presidential elections...


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: No Textwave for the TX
dmdmd @ 10/19/2005 8:57:11 AM # Q
Initially, I was planning to put in my order tomorrow to replace my TT3 with this new device. But after having read this letter, I feel disappointed and hopeless for PalmOS (although I really like the fast responsivenes of PalmOS based machines vs PPC), I may likely wait for Dell to put in a price cut on Axim 51v. It seems to be a better deal from hardware standpoint.

Sigh, I will miss Natara Bonsai (outliner) and Agendus but what can I do?

Anyone knows good outliner or agenda type software for PPC?

RE: No Textwave for the TX
hkklife @ 10/19/2005 9:32:59 AM # Q
The MOST tragic thing about this is that it can hardly be a Herculean effort to port something that was available on the T5 to the TX. I mean, FrankenGarnet went from 5.4.8 to 5.4.9. Not exactly something I'd consider requiring scores of man-hours & $ to be thrown at the TX by Fitaly. Or does Palm REALLY change *that* much from device to device?

While I am certain their decision was made out of frustration with Palm/PalmSource and the inadequate support/documentation they receive, you have to notice the line that rubs the bu11$hit in the noses of new TX owners---"We will continue to sell Palm OS products".

Come on guys, at least give the TX faithful one final "unsupported" beta release or cut off support on the 31st of December or something...

In all actuality, this sort of "circle the wagons" mentality has been going on FAR too long by a number of POS developers-they just didn't post an official EOL notice on their website. I can VIVIDLY recall about 2 years ago buying 3 titles in a day from Handmark. BumpAttack Pinball was one of them. They had promised, but never delivered, a 320*480 version for T3 owners (the Sony version had been out since the NR70 days). I can list several other examples but will refrain from doing so here. It's standard custom in this business to just leave people hanging and not issue official termination notices...again, someone at Palm should read this and TAKE NOTICE but I fear the damage has already been done.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: No Textwave for the TX
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 10:18:59 AM # Q
[sorry, I posted this reply to the wrong thread earlier]

Looks like VOR was right. Instead of developers diversifying (as David Beers said) some significant developers chose to cut development costs by concentrating on the growing platform.

Jean wrote at considerable length about his decision and his history developing for Palm OS. It had nothing to do with wanting to concentrate on "the growing platform." It had everything to do with Palm/PalmSource's inability to specify how OS features will work and stick to the specification. Every new device implements the dynamic input area differently, for example, and requires Textware to roll out a new product just for that device. So, yes, cost was a factor but not because there wasn't strong demand for Palm software products but because these products were too costly to maintain and support for all the different devices.

It should also be noted that Textware wrote a very different kind of software for Palm from what most of us develop. Fitaly is an OS extension (hack) that depended on APIs that Palm/PalmSource made no promise would remain stable. That made his business particularly vulnerable to this problem. But I fully understand his frustration and agree that PalmSource's failure to establish and enforce specifications has hurt the platform more than the extra margin of freedom it afforded to licensees helped it.

I'm an enthusiastic Fitaly user and I'm sad that it won't be available on the TX or future Palm devices.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: No Textwave for the TX
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 10:25:24 AM # Q
I wrote:
Jean wrote at considerable length about his decision and his history developing for Palm OS

What I was referring to here was a much more detailed explanation he wrote to the Palm Entrepreneurs Forum.

I should add that I haven't heard of any other developers on PEF abandoning Palm OS. I won't say there's not frustration and uncertainty over what Palm's OS plans for the future might be, but most of the people I've talked with are doing as well as ever with their Palm software business and see no reason to walk away from it.

The biggest thing that hurts 3rd party developers is the ever-diminishing royalty percentage that the online retailers pay developers these days. That's what you hear the most discussion about on the PEF.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: No Textwave for the TX
EdH @ 10/19/2005 2:19:52 PM # Q
DBeers wrote "It should also be noted that Textware wrote a very different kind of software for Palm from what most of us develop. Fitaly is an OS extension (hack) that depended on APIs that Palm/PalmSource made no promise would remain stable."

You mean on POS a third party soft input panel is not a supported API? Is PalmSource so arogant that they think their SIP is all anyone will ever need?

RE: No Textwave for the TX
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 4:10:43 PM # Q
You mean on POS a third party soft input panel is not a supported API?

Not creating your own, no, it isn't. Not until the Protein API, anyway.

It's not a question of arrogance, IMO, it's a question of not coming up with a specification they can live with and making a decision to stick with it. Exposing an API as public (supported) means you've thought things through far enough that your system can handle whatever people might try to do with that API. It involves time, disciplined forethought, and careful testing--all stuff that delays the release of devices on the possibility that someone might want to develop, say, a 3rd party dynamic input area.

I can accept that Palm or PalmSource make some trade-offs in what they decide to make supported APIs. They have limited resources compared to the likes of Microsoft. What's harder to swallow is the appearance of a development process that is so loose that there isn't an attempt to lock the underlying interface down even just for internal use. When system hacks break with each new device it's easy to say "well that wasn't supported" but it also is a sign that basic stuff like coming up with internal specifications and adhering to them across development teams is not happening. And that's not a good sign.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: No Textwave for the TX
EdH @ 10/19/2005 4:38:54 PM # Q
It's not a question of arrogance, IMO, it's a question of not coming up with a specification they can live with and making a decision to stick with it. Exposing an API as public (supported) means you've thought things through far enough that your system can handle whatever people might try to do with that API. It involves time, disciplined forethought, and careful testing--all stuff that delays the release of devices on the possibility that someone might want to develop, say, a 3rd party dynamic input area.
Well, since the first Palm shipped in 1996 and people have been doing dynamic SIPs since then (didn't the first Palm have a dynamic QWERTY keyboard that popped up above the silkscreen?) I'd have thought nearly 10 years would have been enough for some disciplined forethought and certianly is enough time.

RE: No Textwave for the TX
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 4:46:39 PM # Q
Well, since the first Palm shipped in 1996 and people have been doing dynamic SIPs since then (didn't the first Palm have a dynamic QWERTY keyboard that popped up above the silkscreen?) I'd have thought nearly 10 years would have been enough for some disciplined forethought and certianly is enough time.

Sure, but that was a DA (desktop accessory) which was a well established form of system extension that came over to the Palm OS from the Mac in its old Motorola 68k days. A popup keyboard DA is quite a different animal from the dynamic input area that was introduced with the Tungsten T3. Internally the mechanism is different, from what I understand, due to the different processor architecture. Outwardly, it didn't resize the active form, so it didn't have to provide events for developers to manage changing application screen dimensions. It was a much simpler thing.

The period we're talking about (at least with regard to the DIA example) is really just the last couple of years, although Jean said he thinks the trouble began with OS 5.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: No Textwave for the TX
Timothy Rapson @ 10/19/2005 7:03:28 PM # Q
This puts the TX completely off my buy list. I am almost certain to try an Axim next time. In the meantime, I will soldier on with my Zire 71 until I absolutely can't use it anymore; either because it breaks or there is some application I need that won't run on it.
I really NEED FITALY. Palm is such a mess. Sorry, but it just is.

RE: No Textwave for the TX
cervezas @ 10/19/2005 7:50:54 PM # Q
This puts the TX completely off my buy list.

Big disappointment for me, too. I really thought this would be a replacement for my T3.

I wonder how bad the DIA situation really is with the TX. It may be that it finally just got on Jean's last nerve and he decided he couldn't roll out and support yet another version of Fitaly virtual for just one device. I'm almost thinking I should talk to him and offer to donate some time to help him crank out just *one more* Fitaly release for the TX.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: No Textwave for the TX
svrontis @ 10/19/2005 11:10:49 PM # Q
Thanks, Timothy - we also saw your post on the same topic over at pocketpcf@rts.com. By the way, you might want to look at the less-than-glowing review on the Axim which was published on that site (ie, before you waste your money).

RE: No Textwave for the TX
joeags @ 10/20/2005 2:42:34 AM # Q
On one hand people talk about Palm doing horrible things to their development community, but on the other hand, they seem to allow the developers to come up with things and then let them continue to offer them without stepping on toes. I don't know specifically about Microsoft's mobile platforms, but I know that on Windows, with each successive release, they add more features that take away from the development community. Zipping functions, firewalls, burning functions, etc etc etc. I know in some cases they have bought companies that have working models, but still, it seems that they want to offer more to the consumer to make their model a better deal, but not really caring about the developer. Maybe this is wrong on my part, but it really appears that way to me.

This isn't to say that Palm hasn't ticked off the developers in other ways, but it does seem that there are no perfect models out there.

Don't get fooled again
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2005 3:13:07 AM # Q
On one hand people talk about Palm doing horrible things to their development community, but on the other hand, they seem to allow the developers to come up with things and then let them continue to offer them without stepping on toes. I don't know specifically about Microsoft's mobile platforms, but I know that on Windows, with each successive release, they add more features that take away from the development community. Zipping functions, firewalls, burning functions, etc etc etc. I know in some cases they have bought companies that have working models, but still, it seems that they want to offer more to the consumer to make their model a better deal, but not really caring about the developer. Maybe this is wrong on my part, but it really appears that way to me.

This isn't to say that Palm hasn't ticked off the developers in other ways, but it does seem that there are no perfect models out there.

The natural evolution of a platform is to refine its original core features while adding ideas/applications that were initially offered only by third party vendors. Microsoft is the prime example of a company that buys/licenses/copies innovative software and integrates it into its own platform. (The list is huge: Diskeeper, Quick View Plus, Visio, Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express etc., etc. I'm sure people here could come up with a list of 20 or 30 apps bought out and used (or intentionally killed) by Microsoft over the years.)

For years, Palm's excuse for not advancing the platform was that they (a) didn't want to disturb the "Zen of Palm" and (b) didn't want to steal money out of the pockets of starving developers. Only the most naïve of Palmyannas still believe that ridiculous SPIN. Somehow Palm was able to rationalize buying MultiMail and licensing Desktop To Go despite there being other third party competition on the market. Does that make Palm an evil company?

Don't confuse Palm/PalmSource's laziness with benevolence.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Palm OS developers speak out!

sr4 @ 10/20/2005 5:09:13 AM # Q
These developers were asked about thier views on their future on the PalmOS, in view of recent developments.

Kevin Benedict, CEO of MobileDataforce, whose chief products are Intercue Mobility Suite and PointSync
David Haupert, CEO of DDH Software, who produces the well-known HanDBase product
Iain Barclay, co-founder and chief products officer of Electric Pocket, whose products are BugMe!and Ringo
Jim Brady, CEO of Earthcomber, who makes the Earthcomber travel guide, and
Todd Sherman, president of Smart Box Design. Todd makes Farkle and WordPop!

Some feel its game over for Palm OS. All are already developing for WM in addition to POS. One stopped developing for POS completely, others are prioritising WM development, and some feel there is still a whole lot of value in the installed market already, which can be tapped for many years still. Most feel that if you are a new developer it doesnt make much sense to target POS development now.

Read the full article here:
http://www.computingunplugged.com/issues/issue200510/00001653001.html

Does it feel as if the sun is setting over POS?

Surur

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
svrontis @ 10/20/2005 8:38:37 AM # Q
Well, in the last 7 days, 38 new software titles were added to the list at palmgear.com and there were 105 updates published. I guess that means that there must be some developers who have not abandoned Palm OS entirely.

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/20/2005 8:44:52 AM # Q
I recommend people read this rather than just blindly accept Surer's spin. It's pretty much matches my experience and what I've been hearing from the people I know who have developed for Palm OS for some time.

Of course what you don't hear about here since they interviewed relative old-timers are the new developers that are coming in to Palm OS. There is a lot of fresh interest because of the success of the Treo and there are a ton of Linux developers champing at the bit to get their hands on Palm OS for Linux.

I'm glad to see this kind of interview because it thoroughly debunks TVoR's insulting depictions of Palm developers as herds of frightened sheep. It underscores that most of us are entrepreneurs first and geeks second. We watch the market, we predict, we take calculated risks and we hedge our bets because our livelihoods are at stake. Most Palm developers occupy niches, or at least focus on discrete product or customer categories, and these market segments are all different in terms of how things like a Windows Mobile Treo or the movement to Linux will affect them. We're not a herd, and by and large we're not so easily panicked as the small segment of power users that lives on this forum.

No developer I know of doesn't see the damage that has been done to the Palm platform by the Cobalt miscue. But there's a lot of opportunity anyway because the Palm platform still has a great share of a huge and growing mobile device market. I think the significant thing is that so many developers run against the media's "sunset of Palm OS" drum-beat, roll out Palm OS products, do well with them, and stoke their optimism.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
SeldomVisitor @ 10/20/2005 9:19:32 AM # Q
Oh.

Do you think that software was written...uh...within the last week then?

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
sr4 @ 10/20/2005 10:10:54 AM # Q

I think my interpretation of the article is materially correct, and I did say people should read it themselves. Of course older developers are used as they have the credibility experience brings.

While things do not appear to be as downcast as VOR suggests, its certainly not as neutral or even upbeat as you suggest. The article overal has a resigned tone, and the very fact the questions get asked and aswered also speaks volumes.

Regarding new software for POS, Ive heard a few people (notably the podcaster at pda24/7) complaining that new software is becoming pretty rare on POS, with most software just being updates to existing titles.

Surur

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/20/2005 10:28:40 AM # Q
The article overal has a resigned tone, and the very fact the questions get asked and aswered also speaks volumes.

I don't think the questions being asked speak volumes about anything but the fact that this is the stuff on the mind of folks who read ComputingUnplugged Magazine. I mean, DUH! People are concerned about the future of Palm OS.

And don't paint me like I wouldn't like the platform to be in a better place than it is right now. I personally prefer developing for Palm OS and in a perfect world I'd love to have the luxury to focus on just one platform. Am I resigned to the fact that I'm not in that position? Sure. Do I expect a future when this will be different? No, I expect a future where there will continue to be platform choices and financial benefits from being cross-platform. Like the guys they interviewed I've had that expectation for years now. None of this is stuff that I'm particularly brooding about at this point, it's just that with a Windows Mobile Treo out there everyone is starting to ask us these questions.

My point is that for most (obviously not all) long time Palm developers there is still good business to be had on Palm OS, just as there is on the other platforms. There's more uncertainty than you'd like to have (call that resignation if you like) but there are also reasonably good ways technically to manage that uncertainty and the overall market we are in is growing very well. So for most of us there is no good reason to walk away from Palm OS.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Beersy, Beersy, Beersy...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2005 9:13:26 PM # Q
I'm glad to see this kind of interview because it thoroughly debunks TVoR's insulting depictions of Palm developers as herds of frightened sheep.

Beersy, stop posting B.S. statements like this. Your rose-colored, delusional "visions" of the harsh reality of the PalmOS platform circa Fall 2005 are becoming ridiculous.

The facts are that PalmOS developers are pi$$ed off after years of being treated like crap by Palm/PalmSource and they see that PalmOS is now in the same death spiral that Netscape, WordPerfect, etc. entered years ago. They are angry and frightened that their livelihoods might disappear literally overnight if they continue to bet on a losing platform. This is where momentum becomes critical. If CES Dewar decided to do a Windows Mobile version of DateBk5, do you think he would have the resources to also continue developing the PalmOS version? Once developers start porting their apps to WinMob, PalmOS software will begin to languish. We've already seen many apps become abandonware, considered by their developers to be not worth the effort to update to run on the hacked-up recent versions of PalmOS. And once WinMob gains an advantage over PalmOS in terms of having more NEW/better featured apps (arguably already the case), one more PalmOS advantage will have disappeared. Who's fault is that, Beersy?

And what happens if StyleTap Platform gets improved and the PalmOS UI is grafted onto Windows Mobile devices? Simple: PalmOS implodes.

I'm surprised to hear you've finally stopped defending that pile of steaming dung previously know as Cobalt. Did you and Mistress Dianne Hackborn have a falling out?

Leave the SPIN, B.S. and outright LIES to the other Palm sites, Beersy. Even Jeff Kirvin seems to have given up after having gotten trapped in his Web of Delusions™. The Truth is (not) out There™, Beersy. Don't pollute Palminfocenter with your odious crap.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
Timothy Rapson @ 10/20/2005 10:37:59 PM # Q
Tealpoint has a huge set of apps. All kinds. I use their TealPaint. It is the top POS paint program. About the time OS5 came out they developed a set of tools and sub-routines that were designed to make it possible to write each new or updated program once and it could automatically run on divergent hardware/firmware. That is, they could rewrite TealPaint to say add true-type fonts and clipart, and the new version would work in low res on a Zire 31, high res on my Zire 71, and HVGA with virtual grafitti on a TXx. When they started this they even had the special Sony HVGA and monochrome provisions.
Wonder if that ever worked out for them?

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/21/2005 10:59:49 AM # Q
Sorry TVoR, you've mistaken me for someone else. All I've ever said about Cobalt is that the situation was bad enough that it didn't need your distortions--both ignorant and intentional--to make it look worse.

You can continue with these defensive yammerings that anyone who shows up your ignorance has "rose-colored glasses" but I'm perfectly confident that the readers here are bright enough to take the word of five other developers (plus this one) about what developers themselves think about the future of the Palm platform over anything you'd have to say on our behalf.

You've got exactly zero at stake in this since you're not a developer and you have very little reputation left to lose for being wrong (it becoming a pretty regular habit these days). Suffice it to say that you're words are cheap. But thanks for your concern!


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
hkklife @ 10/21/2005 11:35:41 AM # Q
Are you sure TVoR is not a developer? Perhaps not in the present sense of "is" but I wouldn't be surprised if he/she WAS a developer in the past. By being secretive about one's past, it makes it harder to be "outed" aka Jeff Kirvin /Marty Fouts.

At any rate, we'll NEVER know the real story about Cobalt. Unless a device actually ships with it sometime in '06, I am considering it dead & buried and a major misstep for the PalmCONomy. That is, I think, all that the semi-casual end users such as myself needs to be concerned with.

What worries me more is the apalling lack of support/updates/bug fixes on the heels of two pretty solid Palm releases (Z22 & TX). Here's (mostly) what we have been asking for since '02 offered for a decent price and no one seems too terribly concerned anymore. Initial TX sales seem to be pretty solid and this is a device (unlike the LD) that can do a T|E and have a long life with consistently good sales. It makes a strong showing at retail, certainly. Even most of the biggie developers (SplashData etc) aren't even updating their apps or making a note on their websites that version X of their app is TX-friendly. NOT a good sign!

And where are our dammm CDMA Bluetooth drivers, Palm!?!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/21/2005 12:05:54 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Are you sure TVoR is not a developer?

Quite sure. He/she's said so him/herself. He says he's played around with PDA Toolbox, which is a way to create applications if you don't really want to learn how to code. It's not really a way to make commercial applications.

At any rate, we'll NEVER know the real story about Cobalt. Unless a device actually ships with it sometime in '06, I am considering it dead & buried and a major misstep for the PalmCONomy.

I agree. I don't think there's going to be any good reason to start developing a Cobalt device anywhere near the release date for Palm OS for Linux, so while there will likely be a few devices that have been in the pipeline since before PalmSource's Linux announcement I think that's the most we can expect from Cobalt at this point. I was kind of surprised to hear ACCESS say they were interested in Cobalt, but I don't really expect much to materialize from that.

Everything that made Cobalt interesting will be in Palm OS for Linux, from what I understand. So the best we can say about Cobalt, IMO, is that it was a good start on Palm OS for Linux.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Beersy, Beersy, Beersy...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/21/2005 4:26:07 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
>>>Are you sure TVoR is not a developer?

Quite sure. He/she's said so him/herself. He says he's played around with PDA Toolbox, which is a way to create applications if you don't really want to learn how to code. It's not really a way to make commercial applications.

Beersy, are you retarded? The PDA Toolbox comments were a JOKE. Even you should have figured that out. Wow.

>>>At any rate, we'll NEVER know the real story about Cobalt. Unless a device actually ships with it sometime in '06, I am considering it dead & buried and a major misstep for the PalmCONomy.

I agree. I don't think there's going to be any good reason to start developing a Cobalt device anywhere near the release date for Palm OS for Linux, so while there will likely be a few devices that have been in the pipeline since before PalmSource's Linux announcement I think that's the most we can expect from Cobalt at this point. I was kind of surprised to hear ACCESS say they were interested in Cobalt, but I don't really expect much to materialize from that.

Everything that made Cobalt interesting will be in Palm OS for Linux, from what I understand. So the best we can say about Cobalt, IMO, is that it was a good start on Palm OS for Linux.

David Beers
[Gratuitous self-advertising - that keeps getting longer every week - snipped]

Cobalt Killed PalmOS. The upcoming Palm book will tell all. It ain't pretty.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/23/2005 1:59:00 AM # Q
TVoR wrote:
The PDA Toolbox comments were a JOKE.

Uh huh, if you say so. But you're no developer. You sure as hell don't make a living as a developer. So unless you really insist on looking stupid I suggest you stop trying to tell those of us who do make a living as Palm developers what we think.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Beersy, Beersy, Beersy...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/24/2005 4:11:48 AM # Q
Uh huh, if you say so. But you're no developer. You sure as hell don't make a living as a developer. So unless you really insist on looking stupid I suggest you stop trying to tell those of us who do make a living as Palm developers what we think.

David Beers
[Gratuitous self-advertising - that keeps getting longer every week - snipped]


Did you take your medicine today, Beersy? I can send you an application I wrote with PDA Toolbox that will remind you when it's time for your next haloperidol dose...


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm OS developers speak out!
cervezas @ 10/24/2005 8:01:56 AM # Q
I can send you an application I wrote with PDA Toolbox that will remind you when it's time for your next haloperidol dose...

Why am I not surprised by this? ;-o

Reply to this comment

ahhhhhh...

samdapdaman @ 10/20/2005 6:00:52 AM # Q
everything i ever needed in a pda except...
•voicememo (but it was never clear anyway
•vibrate
•COBALT!!!
oh and one of those leet new 1ghz intel pda processors wouldnt hurt either, but i can always dream

-palm the same mistakes with each model, only, just more advanced ones (still waiting 4 cobalt)
Reply to this comment

Blazer upload support

visage @ 10/20/2005 9:20:25 PM # Q
Does the Blazer webbrowser on the TX support uploading files from the SD card? (such as uploading images to a site like http://www.imageshack.us)
Reply to this comment

This thing's unstable

MickeyD @ 10/22/2005 7:02:15 PM # Q
Well, after two days, two different units, and 16 hours of work, I'm planning to return my TX. I love the thing, but it every time I attempt to use VersaMail, something gets corrupted and the unit starts to reboot itself. The only cure is a hard reset and a reinstall of everything.

These things are supposed to simplify our lives, not make them more complex. My T was better than this, but it's out of space. I'd really like to see Cobalt, but my impression is that it'll be Windows Mobile in the future.

If anyone has suggestions as to how to which VersaMail files I can remove to kill this thing off, I might be willing to find another email program and replace it.

Otherwise, I'll look at an iPaq.

Mike
10 year palm user.

RE: This thing's unstable
E Ben G @ 10/22/2005 8:42:19 PM # Q
Dude - axim not ipaq.

RE: This thing's unstable
AdamaDBrown @ 10/24/2005 3:37:42 PM # Q
I tend to agree with E Ben G: most of the iPaqs aren't worth their salt. The Axims are light-years better for both design and value.

First, though, I'd suggest that you try installing your apps one at a time on the TX. It may be that you have one malfunctioning app that's causing your corruption issue. If you test Versamail after each app install, you should be able to locate the culprit and remove it.

RE: This thing's unstable
MickeyD @ 10/25/2005 7:39:24 AM # Q
Yeah, I did that. No surprise here, VersaMail's the culprit. When I attempt connection to any server, it locks up and dies. Doesn't matter if it's BT through my mobile (V551) or WiFi.

I've decided to stay with the TX, but VM is outta here. I'm looking at Snapper and Chatter. I'll probably go with Snapper.

Thanks!

Mike

Reply to this comment

Graffiti 1 and the T|X

Navamske @ 10/23/2005 9:08:06 PM # Q
The review says, "For those that prefer classic Graffiti, you can install the old libraries to enable Graffiti 1." Has anyone actually had success doing this? I installed the Graffiti 1 files on the T|X and now all I have is the "Palm Powered" screen, the one after the round orange Palm logo and the progress bar at the bottom. I can't even do a hard reset. Nothing works.
Reply to this comment

Bluetooth pairing problems?

crimewave @ 10/24/2005 3:16:16 PM # Q
Has anyone else encountered any bluetooth pairing problems with their mobile phones? I downloaded the latest phonelink updater and installed it, and now my palm wont even detect my phone! I had no problems with my t3 paired with my razr, and I didn't even use the right driver because palm hadn't even made one for the razr yet...

Computers don't make mistakes, people do.
RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
hkklife @ 10/24/2005 3:38:25 PM # Q
HAH!

"Problems" is a huge understatement.

Try "standard GSM" or the "universal phone" driver.

Otherwise, take a number and join the line. Palm ONLY wants to sell Treos, remember?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
cervezas @ 10/24/2005 3:44:33 PM # Q
They never released a PhoneLink driver so I could dial my Nokia 6620 from my T3 either. As hkklife said, they want you to buy a Treo, not be syncing your handheld with someone else's phone. I suppose that strategy works for some people, but for folks who don't care for the Treo it just means Palm's handhelds aren't as attractive or useful as they otherwise would be.

Looking forward to that Linux kernel where we'll always be able to count on someone to hack something out when we need it!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
hkklife @ 10/24/2005 4:19:36 PM # Q
David;

"dial" as in dial-up networking or "dial" as in dial a phone number directly from contacts?

Did you ever try the +mode=2 init string?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
sr4 @ 10/24/2005 4:29:00 PM # Q
Looking forward to that Linux kernel where we'll always be able to count on someone to hack something out when we need it!

Looking at Skarky et al, I thought the Palm community already worked that way?

Surur

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
cervezas @ 10/24/2005 4:37:38 PM # Q
"dial" as in dial-up networking or "dial" as in dial a phone number directly from contacts?

Either one.

Did you ever try the +mode=2 init string?

No. Where do I find out about this?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
cervezas @ 10/24/2005 4:50:32 PM # Q
Surer wrote:
Looking at Skarky et al, I thought the Palm community already worked that way?

Sure we do, when we can. But Palm OS is going to become a lot more open to this next year. It'll also help having a mobile platform that is the darling of all those Linux hackers out there and supported by tools and APIs that are familiar to them. You know... the network effect. ;)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
sr4 @ 10/24/2005 5:23:37 PM # Q
You know... the network effect. ;)

Ha! I knew you were a believer!

Surur


Where the network effect counts
cervezas @ 10/24/2005 5:44:28 PM # Q
Surer wrote:
Ha! I knew you were a believer!

I already pointed out that while the network effect is generally a lot weaker for mobile devices than for PCs, there is at least one respect where it can be significant. That is when a mobile platform is designed to leverage existing developer skills among 3rd party developers, handset makers, or within the operator networks themselves. For example, I think the .NET Compact Framework has been an important thing Microsoft has done to contribute to the success of Win CE, which previously had been an ugly step-child of Windows in terms of developer tools, support, and consistency in the API.

I expect Linux to get an even bigger kick from this since it leverages not just 3rd party developer skills, but proficiencies and standards that are commonplace within the vendor and operator IT shops. Add Palm's 400k application developer base to that and you've got instant traction for the platform at all the levels you need it.

Also remember, Microsoft's idea of the network effect isn't always considered a positive thing since there's the perception (largely justified) that they only want you to be networked into their own proprietary infrastructure. In other words, it's equated with vendor lock-in. ACCESS and OSDL aren't interested in converting anyone to a particular religion--they're can support them all--and that gives them an inherent competitive advantage that I know makes Microsoft very nervous.

How'd we get back on this topic from a thread about BT pairing problems?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
sr4 @ 10/24/2005 6:56:17 PM # Q
How'd we get back on this topic from a thread about BT pairing problems?

You were explaining how the slashdot crew were going to fix the BT drivers in Palm Linux. I'm my experience individual hackers do not really care what the OS is, they will hack it in any case, whereas companies who want to fix their bought PDA's would want the vendor to fix it for them.

Surur

RE: Bluetooth pairing problems?
rcartwright @ 10/24/2005 7:51:09 PM # Q
My TX works like a champ with my Nokia 6320. What exactly is your problem?

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
Reply to this comment

Got it, love it. . . just one correction to review. . .

emgersh @ 11/30/2005 3:15:53 PM # Q
I have the T|X and love it. The WiFi is just about flawless as is the Bluetooth. The screen is goregous and it is completely silent. It does occasionally restart without warning but doesn't seem to lose any data or have any other problems related to that one oddity.

As for the review. . . " The USB cable alone will not charge the handheld from the computer, you must attach the AC cord."

This may have been true of the T5 but is not true of the T|X, which charges nicely when left attached with the USB/Multi-connector cable.

Personally, I like having a separate PDA and Phone. I don't ALWAYS want the PDA with me and I want my phone as small and cheap as possible. I also don't want a locked PDA or the price point of an unlocked Treo. Plus, I want a slightly larger device that works well for media and web surfing etc.

RE: Got it, love it. . . just one correction to review. . .
wierd @ 12/9/2005 9:17:39 PM # Q
Yes, as the manual state, as long as the USB adapter is plugged into a full powered USB port, it will charge at 500mA.
If its not on a full power usb port, all it does is trickle charge at 100mA.
I looked at the AC adapter, and it outputs 500mA, so the usb cable can charge at the same speed.
If you plug in the usb adapter and get the "charging" lightning bolt on your battery display, its charging at full power, otherwise, it's just trickle charging.

RE: Got it, love it. . . just one correction to review. . .
cliff_l @ 3/30/2006 10:34:23 AM # Q
I didn't know that either! and you are right, when plugged into a full power USB port, the lightning bolt symbol shows up!

Reply to this comment

Good device ...

MJustice @ 12/2/2005 10:28:17 AM # Q
I just got this (and configured) this device for my dad. It works really well and is a nice size.

Pros: Great display, good battery life.
Cons: No charging light, the home silkscreen button has been removed from the screen in the place of Wi-Fi, I us this button all of the time on my device, so it is hard to get used to.

RE: Good device ...
wierd @ 12/9/2005 9:06:52 PM # Q
The silkscreen buttons are changable.
If you tap and hold on one for a couple seconds, it brings up a menu of all the options you can change them to.
The picture will change with them.

None of my silkscreen buttons are what they started as.

I've been very pleased with mine, 8 hours of active bluetooth connected to the internet while I was listening to streaming audio and browsing the web.
Screen was on the entire time. The battery was down to about 40% after all that time.

WiFi, of course, uses battery faster, but not so fast as to make it not worth the difference in range and connection speed.
When using Wifi, the battery drains about twice as fast as it does when using bluetooth for internet. But since most of what I do on the internet goes more than twice as fast, it makes up for it.


RE: Good device ...
visage @ 12/11/2005 5:58:14 PM # Q
Good tip on how to change the virtual silkscreen items.

However he is refering to the bottom "silkscreen", the menubar (the one that shows a clock and other features). There is a home button on the regular silkscreen area by default, but a lot of the time that area is hidden to provide large screen support.

What I'd be interested in is:

Is it possible to change icons on the bottom menu (I'd love to replace the Find, Alert or Bluetooth icon with a home icon among other things)

Is it possible to change the positioning of the bottom menu when changing screen orientation? Assuming you are in the right handed configuration for screen rotation, it causes the bottom menu to flip to the other side of the handheld. I'd love to retain right handed mode but keep the bottom menu where it was.

RE: Good device ...
acarodp @ 12/19/2005 5:37:16 AM # Q
It is possible to replace the find button with a home button in the status bar. There are at least two applications that do it. I'm using this one:
http://www.mobile-stream.com/demos/newtxhome.zip
which is working fine for me, and is also free.
It is claimed to be somewhat "experimental" but up to now is giving no problems.
It comes in two versions, one replacing the "find"button, and another replacing the "graffiti on the entire screen" button.
Otherwise there's a commercial ( believe) one called SharkTXFix, which I did not try.

L.

RE: Good device ...
Tuckermaclain @ 1/12/2006 7:26:01 PM # Q
After being disappointed with several of Palm's releases I coughed up the $300 for the TX after the Z72 died. I'm very impressed. Glad I waited a few months until some bugs got work-arounds and the developers got their software updated. My version of Agendus crashed hourly. Now it's a very useable device. A few problems (crashes after exiting Blazer) but overall very impressed. Love the virtual G1. Why didn't Palm build it 2-3 years ago? How many times have we ranted about WiFi, 320x480, and Virtual Grafitti? Better late than never in this case.

RE: Good device ...
twrock @ 1/12/2006 9:16:31 PM # Q
Otherwise there's a commercial ( believe) one called SharkTXFix, which I did not try.

SharkTXFix works great is also free.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

Reply to this comment

Liking My New T|X

BrendaM @ 1/16/2006 5:51:07 PM # Q
The old m130 was aging fast and I had to hang 'till Xmas to get the T|X ... worth the wait, though! I commune with my device during the day more than ever before: consulting DateBk5, playing mp3's, showing a movie to the cranky toddler in the car, surfing the Web from my bed or checking my kid's grades online from the local coffee shop. Loving the hi-res screen and the ability to hide the Graffiti area to see more on the screen. I do miss Graffiti 1 and can't use Igor's files to go back since they don't work with Blazer, but I think I've successfully made the switch to Graffiti 2. I use the T|X so much I plug in in to recharge every other day or so now. I don't miss phone capability since for security reasons I prefer to have my phone separate. Skip the cheesy aluminum Palm hardcase, the clasp sucks; much better and cheaper is the PDair aluminum case available through getyourtech.com. I am a little worried about the delicate connector on the HotSynch cable, but I suppose that will be easily replaced. The only thing truly missing was an SD card big enough to hold a decent number of tunes (they only play off of cards, not the internal memory); a 1 gig card from Ridata took care of that ($50) and we were off to the races.

m105--m130--T|X
Reply to this comment

Palm TX expansion slot

palmnomore @ 2/11/2006 3:55:12 PM # Q
After reading glowing reviews I finally made up my mind to upgrade from my old Zire71 to the TX. Brought it home; waited those long three hours and then did the install and first hotsync. All seemed good until I inserted my 1GB Lexar SD card. The TX just showed 'No card inserted'. I tried three other cards - all no go. I spent a couple of hours searching Palm's site and other forums but could find nothing that addressed the issue. I figured I had a defective unit.
The next day I exchanged it for another TX. Repeated all of the same steps and, once again, it refused to recognize any card. I kept playing with it and finally discovered that after a hard reset it would (occasionally) recognize a card - but then only until you do a hotsync. I decided to call tech support at Palm and after getting past their numerous warnings about how they want to charge me $40 for the privelege of talking to them I finally ended up talking to a human being. After forcing me to do the usual trite things that every tech support person does he put me on hold for a long, long time. When he came back he said that the non-recognition of expansion cards in the TX is an "emerging issue" that they are aware of. The engineers are working on a solution and will be posting a patch on the Palm site. When I asked when the patch would be available I was told that he "can not divulge that information". I was a little annoyed by this point and I pressed him for SOME idea of a time to help me decide if I wanted to keep my TX or return it. He finally came up with four to six weeks "or longer". He then told me that he himself had a TX that worked fine and suggested that I could just keep exchanging TXs until I got lucky and got one that worked! This is Palms version of customer support!!
I've been a huge fan and supporter of Palm over the years and have said over and over that I consider this to be the best piece of personal electronics EVER.
Today I packed up the TX and returned it (along with the new wireless keyboard and cradle kit).
Anyone have any suggestions on a good Win CE handheld as well as software to convert my Palm calendar and contacts?

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
rcartwright @ 2/11/2006 5:05:16 PM # Q
I am sorry you had that experience. I have had it occur once or twice and I cleaned the connectors and re inserted and it seemed to work ok.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: Palm TX expansion slot
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/11/2006 7:48:24 PM # Q
I'm surprised you would give up on PalmOS so easily. Just because Palm's hardware now sucks doesn't seem like a good reason to give up on such an intuitive OS. Get a Sony CLIE TH55 on eBay (if there are any left) and see the difference owning a high quality device makes.

If you really want to switch to a PPC device, look at the Loox models and get a program called Styletap Platform that will allow you to run most of your PalmOS apps on your new PPC/Windows Mobile device.

If you HotSync your Palm data to Outlook, when you HotSync your Windows Mobile device to the same computer, the data will be synced over automatically.


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
twrock @ 2/11/2006 7:49:29 PM # Q
That is strange. I have a 1gb Lexar card that I used in my T2 and now in my TX. I haven't had a problem with any of the SD cards I've ever put into the TX. "Emerging issue" is strange too. I wouldn't think anything has changed in the TX since it started its production run. Maybe the newer SD cards are different (mine are all older). Unfortunately, sounds like Palm couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer for you.

The Dell Axim X51v was the only PPC I really took a serious look at. The specs are nice, but it costs more than a TX and it didn't run PalmOS. My minimal playing with PPC's and the stories of others led me to believe I'd regret buying a PPC. YMMV.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
AdamaDBrown @ 2/12/2006 12:26:40 AM # Q
The Looxes are nice, but expensive here in North America--you can get equal or better power for less cash with a Dell Axim. Of course, I'm sure Surur will be happy to make a counter-argument. ;)

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
palmnomore @ 2/12/2006 2:15:25 AM # Q
It's not that the card is too 'new' or the contacts need cleaning...

I've tried numerous old and new / large and small cards - ALL of which work in both my Zire 71 and the ancient m130. The TX has a problem. I've had a few people tell me that their TX is fine.

Interestingly, I've been trying to buy one since just after Christmas - but both the Palm online store and ALL of my local electronic shops have been out of stock for weeks. The interrupted supply has finally been restored - but the 'new' TXs seem to have this 'issue' with expansion cards. My suspicion is that the manufacturer/supplier has changed something that is causing this problem.

Truly I DO NOT want to abandon Palm and/or the Palm OS. As I've said before - I do believe it was the best consumer electronics product I've ever seen. I'm just incredibly disappointed that I've wasted three days of my life trying to get the TX working - and then, finally, struggling to bring my Zire 71 back to 'normal' once I'd given up on the TX. And I'm even MORE disappointed that Palm's customer support wasn't the least bit helpful or interested in my problem. Companies go out of business with attitudes like that - and, despite their indifference to me - I'm not yet wanting to say goodbye to Palm...

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
Surur @ 2/12/2006 7:17:15 AM # Q

The Loox 720 is very nice, but one has to keep on going into the future. It wont get the WM5 upgrade (? downgrade) which mean you miss out on the goodies in the new OS (persistent storage, A2DP, push email (slowly coming through now), .Net CF, GPS API etc). My current hot favorite for a PDA is the VGA Acer N310 ( http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29442&sid=0df832a5282c3f70f7a3e7b614dd31c9 ). Its available in Europe now for $420 including tax, and should probably be about $350-400 without tax in USA. My favorite for PDA-Phone is the FSC Loox T830 ( http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=104166 ), which is only blighted by a 240x240 screen.

Regarding this person's specific problem, he's probably syncing over an old library, hence his hotsync related problem. He should try with a clean install. If that does not work he should obviously next exchange the device. Unless the software he wants is not available on POS, you really cant beat a half-VGA dual wireless device for $300.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
twrock @ 2/12/2006 8:11:33 AM # Q
palmnomore: I kept playing with it and finally discovered that after a hard reset it would (occasionally) recognize a card - but then only until you do a hotsync.

Surur: Regarding this person's specific problem, he's probably syncing over an old library, hence his hotsync related problem. He should try with a clean install.

Assuming palmnomore does know how to do a hard reset, and assuming that "after a hard reset it would (occasionally) recognize a card", then it wouldn't be an old library problem. But that is assuming the reported "occasionally" is accurate. It's an important word, because it might make all the difference in the world. The way to completely isolate a problem on the handheld is to do a hard reset and then check on that one thing. Otherwise there are a too many variables.

If it works consistently after a hard reset and before any hotsync, then Surur is probably right on, and the problem is an old library. And I also have to agree with him about the $300 handheld he mentions.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
palmnomore @ 2/12/2006 11:03:36 PM # Q
Surur and twrock - you are the first people i've come across who actually sound like you might know what is going on and how to fix it! (I wish I could talk to someone like the two of you when I call Palm...)

I'll be the first to admit that I am certainly no expert - but I'm not a complete idiot either. Your comments about an old library problem got me thinking.

As for the 'occasionally' - admittedly I'm not entirely certain about this as I was trying numerous things over two days with two TXs. Sorry.

ONE thing I am certain of is that the TX never recognized any card after hotsynching (to my old username) from my Zire71. (This is the same user file I've used since my m130. I used it for the Zire71 and hoped I'd be able to keep using it for the TX. Is this an unrealistic expectation? Do you 'clear the slate' with a new handheld and re-enter your data?)

I tried three different memory cards:
-a 64MB Palm SD card
-128MB SanDisk SD card (with data from an m130 - still in daily use)
-1GB Lexar SD card (with data from a Zire71 - in daily use)
Thinking that the content of the card might be a problem I tried the 64MB card both with data (mp3 files used on the m130) and then again after I erased all the files.

Initially I was trying all three cards after hotsynching. I would perform a hard reset of the TX (the kind that actually removes all data from the device - holding the power button and hitting the reset...) Grasping at straws I thought that having the card inserted during the hotsync might have something to do with it. So I tried all three, both ways - ie Soft reset, insert 64MB card, hotsynch, 'No card inserted' message. Soft reset, hotsynch, insert 64MB card, 'No card inserted' message. Clear data off 64MB card, soft reset, insert blank 64MB card, hotsynch, 'No card inserted' message... and repeat with 128 and 1GB cards.

Next I wondered if it would make a difference if the card was inserted while I performed a hard reset. I inserted the 1 GB card and did a hard reset. Unfortunately here is where my memory gets fuzzy. It didn't seem to make a difference - so I pushed the TX aside in frustration and went back to searching the net for any clue to help me with this problem. After an hour or so I picked up the TX and pushed the card to remove it - and then, for the very first time, I heard the familiar chime!! It recognized that a card had been removed. I re-inserted it - and it recognized it. I then tried to look at some of my (Word) Docs to Go files on the card - and opened Docs to Go. Docs to Go gave a message 'Searching for supported files...' and then just hung up there. I watched anxiously for a while - then just decided to let it run. I checked back in about ten minutes and it was still searching. I did a reset. I then tried to view some photos on the card - and it worked fine. Tried another hotsynch - and lost the card. Repeated the hard reset and got the card back. Hotsynched and lost the card.

Like I said, my memory isn't exactly clear - but I'm thinking that the old library problem sounds likely. (Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean by this - or what I would have to do to fix the problem.) I wish Palm tech support had suggested this to me when I still had the Tx. Would I have avoided the old library problem if I had tried hotsynching to a newly created username instead of my existing one? And then the biggest question - if that were to work is there any way I could somehow copy my old calendar, contacts and memo files from my old user name to the new one? (Or would that be the old library you're talking about?) Alternately - is there a file or files on my PC that I can simply delete before I hotsynch to my old username?

I'm actually starting to get hopeful that there might be an easy fix for my problem after all. MANY thanks!!

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
twrock @ 2/13/2006 12:32:44 AM # Q
If I had to venture a guess, then based on what your are now saying, I don't believe this is a TX/SD card problem. The problem "seems" to occur only after the first hotsync. Unless you went through certain steps before your first hotsync, then you likely synced some old "library" (app, hack, program, etc.) from your computer that worked fine on your Z71 but won't on a TX. (I found something I was using on my T2 that didn't work on the TX, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.)

I am in the habit of completely eliminating any potential problems when I upgrade PDA's by:
1. Hotsyncing my PDA with Outlook so that all my "data" is still going to be there.
2. Uninstalling all the software on my computer that has anything to do with my Palm (Palm Desktop, DocsToGo, etc.).
3. Finding and renaming the C:\Program Files\Palm folder on my computer so that a new installation will not find anything leftover from my previous install.
4. Installing the Palm software on my computer as if I had never owned a Palm before (but of course I add the same user name I've been using, otherwise none of my previous Palm apps will be registered).
5. Complete all the steps the installation in #4 tells me to, including the first hotsync, and verify everything is working on the new Palm.
6. Slowly begin reinstalling apps one by one and verifying each works before moving on. (Pilot Install works good for this because you don't have to go through the whole hotsync process every time.)

Yep, that's pretty "anal" of me, but then I'm pretty sure of what the problem is when something goes wrong.

Hopefully someone else who doesn't use Outlook can jump in and tell you how to get your PIM data back without having to re-enter everything one at a time. It's probably simple, but I haven't done it. Another suggestion, if you take this over to the Discussion Forums, you'll likely run into a lot of people much more knowledgable than me.

And finally, if you end up with a working TX, you gonna have to change your user name. ;-)

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2006 12:14:26 PM # Q
Like I said, my memory isn't exactly clear - but I'm thinking that the old library problem sounds likely. (Unfortunately I don't understand what you mean by this - or what I would have to do to fix the problem.) I wish Palm tech support had suggested this to me when I still had the Tx. Would I have avoided the old library problem if I had tried hotsynching to a newly created username instead of my existing one? And then the biggest question - if that were to work is there any way I could somehow copy my old calendar, contacts and memo files from my old user name to the new one? (Or would that be the old library you're talking about?) Alternately - is there a file or files on my PC that I can simply delete before I hotsynch to my old username?

1) Whenever upgrading to a new PDA, load apps and data from scratch and use a new User Name, otherwise you're just asking for a pile of conflicts.

2) The simplest way to regain your calendar, contacts and memo files is if you are syncing with Outlook. They will be copied to your new device with your first HotSync. You could also use a file manager like the freeware app, FileZ to beam the database files from your old PDA to the new one (if they both use the same database structure). I believe you can also export your databases from the Palm Desktop.



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Palm TX expansion slot
palmnomore @ 2/18/2006 10:48:22 PM # Q
Uhhh...

I guess it's time to change my name - no more 'palmnomore'!

Thanks to everyone (esp twrock) for all the advice. I decided to give the TX another try this week. I picked up another one - new and in a sealed box. I got it home and opened it up to discover the contents in disarray. I turned the TX on and found it half-charged and full of someone's data. It was a return - being sold as new! I was beginning to think me and the TX weren't meant to be... So back to the store to pick up another 'new' one. (This time I opened it before I left the store - and it was, in fact, new.)

While it was charging I used the Palm Desktop 'export' function to save my contacts, calendar, etc. I then proceeded to uninstall and delete every hint of Palm and third-party apps on my PC. I created a new user ID and did my first hotsynch. The expansion slot worked perfectly! I then imported my contacts, calendar, etc (almost worked perfectly - unfortunately it drops the 'Category' information for each record... I've since thought more about this and realized I could have simply beamed my contacts, etc from my old device to the TX. Since you can beam by category I wouldn't have lost that info.) I then re-installed all of my old apps - checking the card each time. After a couple of days of playing with it I'm happy to say that all is well!

Apparently I just got lucky when I upgraded my hardware last time and synched to my old username. I now know better - thanks to this site. (I've added Palm Infocenter to my AvantGo so I can keep getting info and advice that actually works!) I think Palm's instructions should caution against synching your new device to your previous data - and strongly suggest the export/import function and/or beaming instead.

So, again, THANKS for your help and suggestions!

Reply to this comment

TX RAM, LifeDrive fixes, no leaks?

mikecane @ 2/20/2006 4:47:37 PM # Q
What's the real deal with the TX's ~100MB memory?

It can't all be Flash, can it?

Is there 32MB (or whatever) of RealRAM in it where programs execute? And did they enlarge whatever cache (heap?) that caused problems with the T5 and LifeDrive? (IIRC, gfunk was meticulous about parsing out the T5 and LifeDrive memory schemes. You out there gfunk?)

This is also the traditional time for Palm leaks. It's ominous there's been no word of a LifeDrive II. The only rumor I've seen was months ago from a dealer in Slovenia(!) who told someone a new LifeDrive was due this month (2/06). And yet, no leaks. Could it have been scuttled? Or is the Palm market so dead that no one cares any longer?

Is there anyone out there still using a LifeDrive, now with the 2.0 update? Any new problems? Any old problems not yet fixed (aside from VersaMail)? Did the LifeDrive share the T5's Find bug? If so, was that fixed on the LifeDrive at least? Does Find work properly on the LifeDrive and TX? (I won't ask if LifeDrives are shipping with 2.0 already installed. I figure so many of the original run have just never sold.)

-- via Nokia 770 (yecch!)

RE: TX RAM, LifeDrive fixes, no leaks?
rcartwright @ 2/20/2006 5:26:46 PM # Q
mikecane @ 2/20/2006 4:47:37 PM

"What's the real deal with the TX's ~100MB memory?

It can't all be Flash, can it?"

Yes it can. I have about 115MB usable memory. Some problems with the WSDL (white screen of delay) because the dbcache is not big enough. I am quite pleased with it on the whole. THe wifi and BT work like a charm. Did I mention that DTG 8 works great as well?

BTW, thanks to your Nokia 770 adventure, I have decided that my inital assessment ("solution in search of a problem") was correct and I have passed on at least this version of the 770.


"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: TX RAM, LifeDrive fixes, no leaks?
Surur @ 2/20/2006 5:43:25 PM # Q

It probably has 16 MB of real ram, divided into 10MB dbcache and 6MB dynamic heap (just like the LD). Its only the Treo 700p which has a real 32MB RAM chip. Of course it also has 128MB flash, of which 100 MB is available to the user.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: TX RAM, LifeDrive fixes, no leaks?
hkklife @ 2/20/2006 8:19:04 PM # Q
Mike;
Good to see you posting here again. I briefly went with a LD, found it to be an unmitigated disaster, went back to the T3, got another LD from another store/state, found it SLIGHTLY better but still disasterous, returned it and went back to the T3 for a few more weeks until the battery started flaking out. I got a superb price for selling it with all of my UC accessories and got a T5. It did fairly well but the build quality was SO poor on it. I did like the sliderless design, hard buttons, and battery life compared to the T3. I also got a good price selling it and got a TX in October and never looked back.

The TX has its share of flaws (BT chief amongst them) but it has better build quality than any of the plastic bodied T|E variants thus far. It even looks halfway decent due to its, ahem, Cobalt blue/black exterior color. The hard buttons work well, esp. once you've remappped "Home". I do get occasional dbcache insufficient memory errors but a reset solves those.

SUPPOSEDLY a TX ROM update is forthcoming that updates VersaMail as well as somehow addresses some of the dbcache memory issues. If that does indeed occur then the TX will be about as good as you can expect it to be. Battery life is not where my old T|C was but it's still very, very good all things considered. Screen is less blue than my T5 was but I don't think it's the 18-bit one like the LD & T|E2 enjoy. I'd personally rather have 128 total/115mb usable RAM than 64mb/180mb like the T5 had. Just dump it all into main RAM and you don't have to worry about it! That's why I have a 2gb SD card.

If you are at all curious about renentering the Palm scene the TX is likely your wisest move. The quality is SO much better over the T|E. It's far from perfect but considering you can snag new ones for <$250 nowadays, it's a compromise most of us are willing to make.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Reply to this comment

video on the TX

stu_724 @ 2/21/2006 4:48:35 AM # Q
Hi i'm going to be buying either an Acer N50 premium or a palm TX for my next PDA. The shop I'm getting it from is running an offer so both are the same price!

They both seem to have no problem with wi-fi, the palm seems to have the edge with a better screen, but whats it like playing vids, as its only got a 312Mhz processor? Any thoughts most appreciated.

RE: video on the TX
AdamaDBrown @ 2/21/2006 5:46:52 AM # Q
It shouldn't be too big of a problem, if you reencode the videos right. Besides which, the Acer has the same speed processor, so it's kind of a moot point.

RE: video on the TX
freakout @ 2/22/2006 3:14:08 AM # Q
The Treo has the same CPU. Mine plays back vids with no hiccups at all - but as AdamaDBrown said, you need to re-encode them first, or it'll chug. Personally I use Lathe (or its free parent, PocketDivXEncoder: http://divx.ppccool.com/). It's a simple process and lets you pick from a bunch of preset resolutions and qualities. No brainpower required.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)
Reply to this comment

Palm TX vs Axim51v

rc94590 @ 5/3/2006 2:04:30 PM # Q
I am looking for a reliable PDA. In researching this message board, I noticed a number of references to the Dell Axim 51v. I just purchased a 51v with the GPS blue tooth navigator through Costco ($600 plus tax). The device was a terrible disappointment. The alarm function was completely unreliable. Alarms set on the calendar would work for a few days and then stop working. The PDA required what is termed a hard reset in order for the alarms to function again. A hard reset is a time consuming operation. It takes about an hour to completely back up and then restore the files deleted by a hard reset.

I had never owned any type of PDA before, But I naively believed that a simple reliable alarm clock and audible appointment notifier would be included in the programs. I was wrong.

The Dell customer Service division consists of a lot of people who are trained to tell the user to try a soft reset, then a hard rest, then a reinstallation of Outlook and the Sync program. I think that I talked to about six different individuals, and they responded like robots with a prerecorded message. The version of Outlook on their disc does not include the latest Microsoft critical patch that takes 2 hours to download using a 56k modem, and that patch must be downloaded again if Outlook is completely removed. Dell insisted that I could not use the Control Panel to repair Outlook rather than completely remove it. None of these suggested procedures cured the problem. The alarm function just doesn't work right. One of the agents at Dell told me that the company was doing me a favor by giving support to the customers, and that they really didn't have to provide any support. They apparently never read the merchantability section of the Uniform Commercial Code that requires a product to perform as expected for at least 2 years in most states including California.

The PDA originally accepted voice recordings for calendar appointments, but that function also stopped working. As soon as I tried to record for the calendar appointment, the PDA would switch to the notebook program and put the recording in the wrong place. There is an option in the notebook program to force the recording to stay in an existing program, but that option no longer worked. The folks at Dell repeated the mantra of soft reset, hard reset, then reinstall Outlook and the Sync program. Doing such did not fix either the alarm or recording problems.

The navigation hardware and software worked O.K., but the mapping is inferior to the Delorme products.

I returned the Axim 51v to Costco after trying to get it to work for three weeks. I think the Microsoft Mobile 5 operating system and/or Outlook are too buggy for a reliable PDA. I consider the reminder programs the most important on a PDA and the only reason one would purchase the device.

I am considering the Palm TX, and would appreciate any comments concerning the reliability of calendar date alarms and daily alarms for critical medications. I do not need any more than the basic stuff such as memos or notes, calendar appointments including weekly or monthly repeating, daily alarms, and a calculator. I liked the touch screen keyboard on the 51v, and I cannot tell if the TX has a similar function. That handwriting decoder on the 51v could not decipher my handwriting, but few people can read it, sometimes even myself, so that isn't Dell's fault. Stuff such as the ability to use the Delorme Bluetooth Navigator and a decent word processor with dictionary would be a plus but not essential. Thanks in advance.


RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
Ryan @ 5/3/2006 3:04:31 PM # Q
wow what a story.

I can say that in all my years of using a Palm OS device, I have rarely ever missed an alarm or appt due to a device malfunction. (only due to random treo reset loops) The Palm TX is a bit more stable than most handhelds, but can occasionally reboot if you install a lot of software and get conflicts.

GPS and the PIM apps on the TX are very reliable imho. There are large on-screen keyboards available for palm os as well.

RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
rc94590 @ 5/3/2006 3:20:40 PM # Q
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for your advice on the GPS and alarm reliability.

Perhaps I wasn't very clear about the keyboard. I do not need a large keyboard. The little pop-up ones at the bottom of the screen on the 51v worked fine with a stylus. Does the TX come with any kind of touch screen keyboard input? If not, how does one input the letters for a memo? I hope it isn't the type where one searches through a table with a cursor. I dislike that method.

I might not have mentioned that I have no experience whatsoever with a PDA except for my chaotic adventure with the Axim 51v.

Richard

RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
rc94590 @ 5/3/2006 10:12:11 PM # Q
Well, I just purchased a TX from Office Max. With the TX, they are currently offering a free wireless keyboard (supposedly $70 retail) and a 256mb Sandisk card with some software and Rolling Stones music preprogrammed on the card. Also, they price-matched Circuit City's $270 sale price. I couldn't pass up the chance to try the TX since I desperately need a good PDA.

I'll let you know how the TX matches up against the Axim x51. The first thing that I noticed is that the TX came with no case at all, only a flimsy little flip cover. The x51 came with a pretty poor case that offered no protection for the top of the unit, but it did protect the rest of the unit from dust and abrasion. I would say that a decent case is a necessary requirement for both units.

The Palm stylus is much nicer. The stylus on the x51 is only about 1/8"in diameter so it is difficult to grip well. The TX is slimmer and lighter than the x51. The case appeared to be well constructed on both units, and they both look nice.

The X51 had several features lacking on the TX. The x51 will accept flash cards as well as SD cards. I miss the ability to use CF cards because I have several of them that I can also use with a Canon camera. Perhaps it is better to have a card dedicated to the Palm unit and there is no danger of mixing the cards up.

The Axim X51 has a replaceable 1100mah battery, and one has the option of installing a larger 2200mah battery that comes with an extended cover because it is too big to fit in the original case. I purchased one of those larger batteries, and it worked O.K. although the PDA has a bulge in it that might prevent its use in some PDA cases. Unfortunately, since I had to return the x51 to Costco, I am stuck with a battery that I do not need. I advise anyone considering the Dell PDA not to purchase any accesories such as extra batteries, automobile charging units, or memory cards until you are satisfied that the device is working well. Personally, I still think that the complete failure of the notification alarms on the x51 makes it useless as a PDA. I would also suggest that a buyer consider Costco for the Axim PDA's because the store has an excellent return policy and good pricing. Costco offers a 6 month return warranty in comparison to Circuit City's 14 day return policy.

Obviously, the TX cannot use extra batteries because the battery is not user replaceable. If the battery lasts for 5 years or so before needing replacement, the battery should not be a problem unless the unit draws down too quickly performing normal PDA functions. In regard to battery life, the Axim performed well for me. It could play MP3 music, display jpeg photos, and perform normal PDA functions for extended periods. When using the Bluetooth function, the PDA and the wireless GPS units worked OK for several hours in my pockets, but I normally used the GPS in my vehicle where both devices plugged into the cigarette lighter. A vehicle DC adapter keeps the batteries fully charged.


I have to wait several hours for the battery to charge before testing the TX screen, software, ease of use, and practical battery life. I'll give you my completely unbiased opinion afer I install the software and play with the machine for a few days.
Hopefully, the alarm system will not randomly crash as is the case with the Axim.

I'm an old guy whose first computer required entering hexidecimal assembly numbers into a paper punch card to program the thing. I had the old Apple 2 that had a total of 16 kb of memory. That's kb not mb of gb. I really have little tolerance for bad programming. I could be mistaken, but I believe that the Outlook calendar notification alarm was unreliable on Windows 98. I guess the Outlook program has never been debugged which is curious since the latest bloated update for Outlook takes a few hours to download, but the alarm failure problem still exists on the Axim. One would think that a company with the financial resources of Microsoft could design a program as simple as a clock/calendar appointment alarm that was reliable. Some ding dong may have programmed the original Outlook audible alarm module and left the ding dong out of the system.

RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
SeldomVisitor @ 5/4/2006 7:40:28 AM # Q
> Well, I just purchased a TX from Office Max. With the TX, they
> are currently offering a free wireless keyboard (supposedly $70
> retail) and a 256mb Sandisk card with some software and Rolling
> Stones music preprogrammed on the card. Also, they price-matched
> Circuit City's $270 sale price. I couldn't pass up the chance to
> try the TX since I desperately need a good PDA...

http://www.edealinfo.com/cgi-bin/dl?2006/05/04/020.shtml

RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
rc94590 @ 5/4/2006 8:00:31 PM # Q
Hi,

Check Buy.com's reputation:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2107.html

On a scale of 1 to 10, they rate 1.6 on their return policies. they have an overall rating for customer satisfaction that is abysmal. After my bad experience with the Dell x51v, I'm especially cautious. There is an OfficeMax store in the town that I live in, and I can return the Palm TX to the store with no hassle for a 14 day period if the PDA is unsatisfacory. If that wireless keyboard on the rebate truly retails for $70 as OfficeMax claims, the Tx comes out to a $200 price tag plus tax.

There are some very good etailers such as Newegg out there in the electronic field, but I want the ability to easily return this thing if it doesn't work.

On that note, so far the TX looks like a keeper. The only accesories that I think that I would consider are a good case, a spell checker for the word processor because my spelling is getting worse as my eyesight fades in old age, a DC adapter to charge the unit in a vehicle, and perhaps a Delorean Bluetooth GPS device and a PDA program for it. The case and DC adapter are imperatives.

Actually, after charging the unit the first time using the 120v AC adapter, I see little use for that device except perhaps when traveling. The unit is kept fully charged when connected to the USB port on my computer so the AC adapter is superfluous in my home.

The screen is bright and clear on the TX and the input works fine. I use the little stylus activated touch screen keyboard. I do miss the delete key that was on the Axim keyboard though. It is a little awkward taking stuff out in front of the cursor without the delete key. There is a lot of software that comes with the TX, and I'm still wading through the extensive manuals and tutorials. A lot of this information is new to me so I'm pretty slow at absorbing it all.

Tomorrow, I'll try loading some music and photos onto the device to check out the resolution, color rendition,and sound quality. I do not expect much from the speaker built into the device. The sound quality on the Axim x51v was terrible through the speaker, but it was reasonably decent through headphones. The audio reproduction quality is inherently poor with tiny speakers, but we'll see what the TX can do.

For some reason the Windows media player on the Axim did a poor job suppressing the needle hiss that is typical on recordings made from old 45's and LP's. The Windows media player on my computer played some old vinyl cuts in MP3 format very well without any hiss at all, but the Axim x51 introduced an intrusive and irritating hiss (reminiscent of pre-Dolby days) when playing the same songs copied to the CF card or the main memory on the PDA.


RE: Palm TX vs Axim51v
rc94590 @ 5/7/2006 11:41:58 PM # Q
Well, I finished setting up and testing the options that I'm interested in for a PDA. I purchased a 1 Gb Toshiba SD memory card for the unit so that I could load in an assortment of music and photos for evaluation purposes.

First off, in my opinion the Palm TX is infintely superior to the Axim x51 in regards to reliability. The TX so far has never had any problems whatsoever and that feat has occured with an inexperienced user entering data and playing with the programs. In the first week that I had the Axim, I found it necessary to perform 3 hard resets and about a dozen soft resets because of crashes in the Windows Mobile 5 operating system. During the second week, in an attempt to fix crashes I had to completely remove the Sync program and Outlook and reinstall them per instructions from Dell. Then I had to again download the huge SP-3 critical patch for Microsoft Office. No matter what I did, the calendar notification system would randomly crash and require a hard reset to enable the audible alarm system to work again. Note that I had not installed any 3rd party software that didn't come from Dell with the original package so the instability was not due to some 3rd party hack. The Axim operating system and/or the associated programs as furnished by Dell are just not stable enough to be used for serious work.

In contrast, the TX calendar notifiers and task alarms are easy to use and the audible alarms have been completely reliable. In general, I found the Palm TX operating system much easier to use although I have been using the Windows operating system for many years and the Palm programming was completely new to me. Once one understands the functions of the silk screen icons and the control buttons, using any of the Palm programs is fairly simple. The whole PDA can be adjusted much to the user's particular preferences. The Favorite's Menu is set by the user. The 4 control buttons can be configured to bring up whatever aps the user wants, and one can use a button to bring up the Favorites menu so that all of the applications are easily accessed in an arrangement defined by the user.

The TX comes with one of the most comprehensive help systems that I have ever seen. One can download a 690 page Adobe PDF manual that covers just about anything one would ever want to know about using the TX!

Of course I haven't yet read that huge manual, and I probably never will. So far I haven't needed any help from that big manual, or from a User's Forum, or from the Palm customer service folks. I obviously cannot compare Palm and Dell in the customer service department since I haven't needed any customer service from Palm. I can definitely assert that Dell's customer support is terrible as I noted in an earlier posting.

To operate the TX, I used the help files built into the PDA for any details that I was unsure about. The only area where I was a little confused even with the pop-up help file was in the transfer of contacts from my address book in Outlook Express to the TX. With some fumbling around, I discovered that I could export my OE address book as a comma separated file to my desktop, and then import that file directly into the TX Contacts program. All of the fields that I used were correctly transferred to the TX using this method. Names, addresses, phone numbers, and e-mail addresses synchronized perfectly. Probably somewhere in that huge manual there is a description of how to import data directly from Outlook Express, but my way works just fine, and it is fast and easy once you know the procedure.

The TX Pocket Tunes music player and Rhapsody cataloging and transfer systems worked flawlessly. One can quickly transfer songs in common musical formats such as wave files to the TX. The music is automatically formatted as MP-3 files on the TX. Songs are easily organized into playlists, and one can edit the file data on an MP-3 recording to arrange names, artists, albums, genre, and ratings to one's personal preferences. The TX speaker is better than that on the X51V; however, I much preferred to use earphones that accurately reproduced the music with both units.

I had some stuttering on the TX if I played songs from the main memory while performing other tasks. This problem did not occur with the Axim. Songs transferred to the SD memory play smoothly on the TX even if a slide show is running simultaneously. I think that MP-3 files and photos belong on the expansion card rather than in the PDA memory as a general rule with any PDA. The main device memory should be kept clear for program execution files so the stuttering abnormality on the TX when playing music from the main memory really isn't important.

The TX music player permits a variable volume boost, a feature that I could not find on the Handheld version of Windows Media Player on the Axim. In ease of use, I would rate the TX's Pocket Tunes Player better than the Windows player. It is not cluttered with buttons designed to sell music to the user, but it does have all of the essential features. Both PDA's played music well, although the Axim could not perform a volume boost for MP-3's that had a low recording level for very soft music. For wxample, a copy of Beetoven's Moonlight Sonata was almost inaudible through the Axim speaker for the relatively gentle first movement with the Windows player set at maximum volume, although the Axim volume was audible on the robust 3rd movement. An ideal volume level for the entire sonata was easily set on the TX but could not be reset in any simple manner on the Axim as far as I could discern. Perhaps one could push all of the equalizer bars to the top or turn on a leveling feature that destroys the variable volume effects on a piece. Personally, I give the TX the winning performance in handling music.

Photos were well reproduced on screen by both systems, but the TX had an intuitively easier system for cataloging and showing photos. Both the Axim and the TX have nice screens that accurately reproduce color, and both PDA's offer more than enough resolution for the small screens. The Axim sync system for music and photos was buggy, but once music or photos were on the expansion card, they were fine for use. The irritating hard resets took about an hour to implement the system save, the actual removal and reloading of basic system files and programs, and the restoration of saved data from the PC. Any information on the Axim expansion card is not accessible during this reset process so the x51v isn't reliable enough for a professional who might need to put on a photo slide show for an important occasion. Because of the reliability issue, the TX is by far the better PDA for storing and presenting photos.

The Axim has a nice feature that is lacking in the TX. The x51v accepts recorded messages. Unfortunately, I found the recording system to be unworkable for calendar appointments where it would be most useful to me. The buggy program worked for a few days, and then it would arbitrarily refuse to stay in the calendar note system for a voice recording. As soon as I pressed the record button, the recorder jumped out of the calendar and went to the notebook so it put the messages in the wrong place. There is an option to prevent the notebook from being the only program to accept recorded messages, but that option would stop working after a day or so. The recording to the calendar feature could only be restored by a hard reset. In other words, the ability to use recorded messages in the Outlook calendar with the Axim x51v is no better than trying to record to the calendar on the TX that doesn't even have an audio recorder.

I never tried to sync the TX with an Outlook program.I thought that things would go smoother without introducing a Microsoft program to the Palm operating system since it was working just fine. I really do not need or want Outlook on my PDA. Everything that I do need (except the spell checker that costs extra) is already available on the TX. The Axim includes a good dictionary and spell checker and can suggest word completion after the entry of a few letters. I believe that Palm should charge a few dollars more if necessary and include a dictionary, Thesaurus, and grammer and spell checker. The Axim is far superior out of the box as a word processor.

I fooled around with the Palm Grafitti handwriting recognition system for a bit, and it actually could read my lousy handwriting that left the Axim clueless. I suspect that the better performance by the TX in character recognition may simply be a result of the fact that the TX stylus is larger in diameter and more comfortedly suited to handwriting. In any event, I still prefer to use the on-screen touch keyboard, and I prefer the Axim's. For one thing, it has a delete key. For another, the keyboard can optionally be resized to a larger format.

In conclusion, I personally believe that the Palm TX is a well designed tool that does what a PDA should do. The Axim x51v is an expensive toy that has too many system and/or program crashes to be suitable for serious PDA functions. Im going to keep the TX primarily because the audible alarm functions are reliable. Now I have to find a spell checker. Im also seriously thinking of purchasing the Delorean GPS system for the TX. The Axim x51v GPS system worked very nicely once one figured out how to set the Com port and find the 4 digit password identifier built into the Bluetooth transmitter, but in my personal opinion the Pharos mapping on the Axim is inferior to the Delorean mapping that I currently use with a laptop.

One last note. In checking the Internet fot TX accessories, I discovered that there are a lot of vendors selling replacement batteries for the TX. The batteries come with an instruction manual and the Torque tools necessary to open the case and remove the old battery. Still, I think the replaceable battery in the Axim is an excellent feature because it permits the use of backup batteries for extended field use. In the context of battery life, the TX seems to have a considerable advantage. Even though it has a smaller battery than the Axim x51v, the Palm TX can operate considerably longer before needing a charge. I left the TX continuously running a photo slide show using some relative large JPEG pictures (500 kb) and playing a large music list at the same time for about 3 hours. The battery level dropped to about 80% during this period. The battery went back to 100% within an hour when plugged into a USB port on a desktop computer.

Richard


Reply to this comment

Palm TX will not accept sofware registration numbers

Zoltan @ 6/14/2006 3:42:16 PM # Q
I have two important (to me) software that gives me hard time. One is my old favorite and used it on Palm Vx, Aisle Cruiser grocery list, the other is new to my new Palm TX, SlovoEd Classic English-Spanish & Spanish-English dictionary for Palm OS 6.0. (I do not know what is my OS level, and I don't seem to be able to figure out how to find it.) Both software are the newest version and neither will accept their registration number.
I searched the message base for "regis" as key word and only found one hit for "registration", but that was not relevant for me. Any hint on how to proceed to solve my problem is appreciated.

regards,
Zoltan

Reply to this comment

Memory card for TX

stello1984 @ 6/26/2006 5:51:11 AM # Q
Hey there.
Please excuse my ignorance, but can someone please recommend a memory card for the tx. I'm guessing around 1 Gig.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Need a PDA for my wife in medical school, we're mac users.
RE: Memory card for TX
freakout @ 6/26/2006 6:58:38 AM # Q
I haven't used a wide variety of SD Cards, but my Sandisk 2gigger has proven very trustworthy. Their Ultra II cards are also quite good. Pretty cheap too nowadays, with the advent of 4GB cards.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Memory card for TX
hkklife @ 6/26/2006 10:07:04 AM # Q
I am still waiting for 4gb (SDHC only?) cards to appear from the "name" brands. I've had bad experience with Transcend, Patriot, AData etc.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Memory card for TX
stello1984 @ 6/27/2006 4:53:31 AM # Q
Thanks a lot. Good to have some feedback so fast.

Need a PDA for my wife in medical school, we're mac users.
Reply to this comment

Voice recorder attachment

stello1984 @ 6/27/2006 4:54:42 AM # Q
Ok, next question,
Are there any external devices, linked via BT or USB that can be used for voice recording, that aren't too bulky?
Thanks again

Need a PDA for my wife in medical school, we're mac users.
RE: Voice recorder attachment
tuvor @ 6/28/2006 9:26:17 PM # Q
From the Yahoo Palm TX group. Apparently his homemade mics are quite good:

Hey gang, WyreNut here. I'm manufacturing External mics that just clip
to the bottom of the TX/T5 and give you back recording ability! Now
you can use SoundRec 1.07 (freeware) to record lectures, meetings,
your kids singing their ABC's, etc. Use it with Mobi VoIP to turn
your Palm into a cellphone! Tune a guitar with PhonTuner. Eavesdrop
on others! ;)

The mics are $20 USD plus $6 s&h to any US address. International
orders are $12 USD s&h. I can bill in €uros(25 total cost) or £
Pounds (17 total cost) too!

I've recorded myself demonstrating the mic with my TX, and will
provide the mp3 upon request.

I'm using PayPal, and ship via Priority Mail (2-3 business days US)
and Global Priority Mail for the rest of the world. If you don't have
a PayPal account, it's easy to use. You'll get a link to where you
can pay via credit card or debit card.

Email me for info/orders/mp3 at: markspdaplus [ a t ] yahoo.com

Thanks!

WyreNut

Reply to this comment

Finally! A Handheld Macintosh!!!

gulmatan @ 8/5/2006 4:38:55 AM # Q
Yeah!!! Even though this would be the equivalent of a PB 5300c (minus nine inches of screen resolution), it's proven itself amazingly in the two weeks I've had it. Although not a 15" screen, this T|X is as much a tiny dynamo that it helps me avoid the muscle of carrying my PowerBook G4 for every instance I wanted to take my Mac with me for a brainstorming session. As a supplementary (or even complementary) option, my Palm T|X has exceeded my expectations in a dream PDA and Handheld Macintosh!!

Sharp Wizard 6500> Palm m500> m515> Tungsten T> Zire 71> T|E> T|X
Reply to this comment

Palm Desktop Date/Time Stamp

robinr767@yahoo.com @ 8/6/2006 12:00:23 AM # Q
The Desktop software that comes with the TX no longer supports the TIME/DATE stamp (Ctrl-Shift) then T for time and D for date.

This is a fuction that I use ALOT! I've heard that there is a software that will restore the TIME/DATE time stamp, But neither Google or I can get a lead on it.

To be clear, I'm talking about the DESKTOP software, not data entry on the palm.

Any one able to help with this one?

Thanks

robinr767@yahoo.com


Reply to this comment

Newbie needs serious help

stello1984 @ 8/8/2006 6:14:48 PM # Q
Hey all.
I hope someone can help me out here. I recently bought a palm t/x, and finally managed to get it connected to my wireless router (network?) Don't ask why that gave me trouble :)
Now that it is connected though, I still cannot browse web pages. Why not? The palm just tells me that I may have put in the incorrect URL or that the network is not available at present or something.
Do I need to install a VPN? Whatever that is? Where do I get one? I am using my wireless connection right now, on my ibook, so it is definitely working.
(I can almost hear the snickers from all you experts)
Anyway, please help!
Thanks
Steve

Need a PDA for my wife in medical school, we're mac users.
RE: Newbie needs serious help
craigdts @ 8/8/2006 11:01:40 PM # Q
check inside the forums here. You'll get a better response. Probably can do a search inside the forums for "wifi setup" . also can check 1src.com in their forums. Not sure of any other good palm TX forums but you could probably search google "Palm TX forums" and find a few of the more active ones.
RE: Newbie needs serious help
stello1984 @ 8/9/2006 4:52:45 AM # Q
Ok, will do, thanks for that.
Cheers

Got the palm, now need to learn how to use it.
Reply to this comment

Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE

mecheng @ 8/17/2006 10:24:15 AM # Q
If you are comfortable with backup and restore then this is the Palm for you. I am on my 4th palm and soon to be 5th. There are reports of several users that are having the same issue and palm support is far from responsive about this issue. Buy the 2-3 year warranty at best buy so that you can just walk in and replace the defective hardware. Good luck!

RE: Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE
Libra @ 8/17/2006 4:28:43 PM # Q
10 months and my TX digitizer is fine.

Investigate new possibilities...
RE: Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE
falconhawk @ 8/22/2006 4:27:56 PM # Q
I am about to have my Palm replaced for the 2nd time in less than a year...and you are absolutely correct in your comments. I just wish I had read a review like this BEFORE I made my purchase in November of 2005. I purchased the TX as a replacement to my Zire 31 (after the screen went blank in less than a year). I had to go back to the store for a replacement because the digitizer wasn't functoning. Regretably, I purchased my TX from Circuit City and they now say I have to mail the TX to some other company for repair/replacement (after the sales rep clearly told me that I could just walk in and get a replacement)! This is the last Palm product I will buy or recommend (and I've recommended it to at least 3 people who purchased the TX) The Windows and HP models seem reliable...maybe I'll give the TX to my 4-year old son...since it seems to be nothing more than a glorified toy!

RE: Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE
twrock @ 8/23/2006 7:50:58 AM # Q
My "guess" is that the TX digitizer is about on par with the rest of the market. But that is only a guess. However, I truly believe that once you get into the "replacement unit" loop, your chances are much higher that you will continue to have problems with your TX's. I am now on my fourth TX unit as well. Seems Palm is not doing much of anything in their repair facility, at least not here in Asia. I believe that there is something that Palm in the USA will do for you if you have already had three bad units under warranty. Ask them.

At this point I'd buy an extended warranty in a heartbeat, but Palm's Asia Pacific division won't sell me one. Contrary to what Palm told me, the resellers here don't sell one either. So I'm pretty much just stuck in the loop with no recourse. This is the kind of thing that drives loyal customers away.

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE
hkklife @ 8/23/2006 9:15:28 AM # Q
I'm on my 2nd TX in 10 months. This current one is 7 months old and performing flawlessly but its LCD is a bit dimmer all around than the first T X.

I helped a colleague set up his new Treo 700P the other day. I was stunnned at how much brighter & less yellow his screen was. His speaker was also considerably louder and clearer than mine, whether it was being used for a speakerphone call or playing music. He also didn't have the "squeaky" buttons.

It's amazing how Palm's devices vary so drastically from one unit to the next. This began with the m505 (remember the USA vs. Hungarian units?) and has persisted all the way through the Tungsten and Treo lines until today.

Digitizer drift & general unreliability are two of the main reasons I think the touchscreen-eneabled PDA/Smartphone are going to go the way of the dodo within the next 2-4 years. I think touchscreens will be relegated to niche or specialized applications like in-car nav systems, Point-of-Sale kiosks, and tablet style PCs.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Digitizer goes out within 2-3 weeks of use. BEWARE
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 8/23/2006 9:53:29 PM # Q
I am now on my fourth TX unit as well.

Why don't you just end the misery and get a better PDA: a CLIE TH55.

TVoR

Reply to this comment

Palm T/X installation

Saltillo @ 9/18/2006 12:10:17 PM # Q
PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME
I had a Handspring (Visor Prism)it died...
All the info on my computer is OK.
I got a Palm T/X and was following the installation directions...
I MESSED UP WHEN I put in a new user name (DUMB ME) and now all of my contact info is still on my PC, but I need help in CHANGING THE USER NAME IN THE PALM T/X to sync with my PC
I don't know what the heck I'm doing!!!
I want my new Palm T/X and my PC to be under the same name.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Palm T/X installation
craigdts @ 9/18/2006 3:11:48 PM # Q
You may want to go to 1src.com and ask.

However, you should do a hard reset on your TX (see your manual). Then with it cleared, hotsync it with your computer. It will try to identify the handheld - when it asks tell it you are your old ID (should be a drop down menu, select old id). It should sync your old contacts and information to your new TX.

Or I think, if you want to use your new hotsync ID, you should be able to copy your contacts file over to your new device.



Reply to this comment

Syncing with Motorola v3

bcd27 @ 9/21/2006 2:18:12 PM # Q
New here, would appreciate some help.

Having problems syncing V3 with TX, and I couldn't find a list of compatible phones. Taken the following steps:

Powered up bt on phone
Select BT from main menu, then setup devices
Select manufacturer (motorola), model (v3)
Select phone from list, establish 4 digit password
V3 bonds with TX (after entering passkey)
"Phone connection was successful"

After this, no connection. Even in phone menu of preferences, the test give a "unable to connect to phone." Yet going through the "trusted devices" details, it shows me connecting, complete with a timestamp.

ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks



Reply to this comment

Best PDA I have owned

neurojava @ 1/4/2007 12:33:50 PM # Q
I've owned the Palm TT, Treo 650 and now the Treo 700p.

After a particularly hedonistic night in New York City, I realized I had lost my TT and decided to take the plunge and get the TX which I had drooled for a long time.

I am one of that class of people who still prefers to carry a dedicated PDA along with my smart phone. Call it data redundancy, call it the ease of whipping out a PDA to look up information while holding the phone to my ear - but I have always owned a PDA along with a phone - smart or not.

Anyways, coming to the TX - a lot has been written in the comments preceding this comment - so really there isn't much left to be said.

Personally, I love the large screen, wifi, the much maligned POS and the rather decent build quality (given Palm's rather spotty quality control)

Cannot imagine my life without it being in my backpack or pocket.



Reply to this comment

reset

bigrick @ 10/20/2007 2:29:03 AM # Q
Hi guys. I would like to now how to do a cold reset of my alm tx.

RE: reset
twrock @ 10/20/2007 9:55:54 AM # Q
Put it in the refrigerator first?

Just kidding. If I'm not mistaken, "cold reset" is the same thing as a "hard reset", meaning all your data is lost and the Palm is returned to its factory condition. I hope that is what you want to do. To do it you hold down the power switch while clicking the reset switch with your stylus. I believe you have to hold down the TX power switch for longer then my previous Palms or it won't work (like hold it down until the progress bar reaches the right side). You will then be asked if you really want to do the hard reset.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

Reply to this comment

Being Delivered !!

DBBuzzkiller @ 1/5/2009 3:11:55 PM # Q
i know that the tx has been available for quite a while now but i will be getting my palm tx delivered tomorrow and i really cannot wait untill i can use it !! :)
After reading your review i have realised that it really is a great piece of technology and i think that when i buy the memory upgrade it will be just as good as my ipod touch was, even if its not as stylish it still is capable of doing alot and the extra's of being able to use microsoft programs such as word, powerpoint, publisher etc. is very good.

XxX DBBuzzkiller XxX
Reply to this comment

Help!!

deastin @ 7/7/2009 2:30:40 PM # Q
After surfing the web I found a very important web site for my wifes birthday. She is always using my handheld and I want to get to my histrory and delete this page how do I do it??? Thank you
Reply to this comment

where to buy TX

hel22 @ 1/3/2010 7:55:44 AM # Q
where can i buy a TX for a normal price? the price on anazon is over 400 dollars! thats crazy!
Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: