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Comments on: Palm TX Dissection Photo Gallery

Pictures of the disassembled circuitry of the inside of the Palm TX handheld has been posted as part of the FCC approval process. Read on for the full TX guts image gallery.
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Sharp screen?

The Turtle @ 10/19/2005 7:39:44 PM # Q
Is that the sharp screen? The same sharp screen that the dim blue T3's had?

Still waiting for Cobalt...Garnet 5.99999999999999999999999 will not cut it in 2006.
RE: Sharp screen?
Frenchie @ 10/19/2005 7:45:34 PM # Q
I'm assuming since it says "SHARP" in BIG CAPITOL LETTERS that it is made by sharp :-p

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p
RE: Sharp screen?
cypher76 @ 10/19/2005 8:22:23 PM # Q
It's not the exact same screen, there's zero screen whine in the TX that I have.
RE: Sharp screen?
LiveFaith @ 10/19/2005 8:27:11 PM # Q
After 2 years, Sharp may have improved somewhat. If it's = TE2, then it's noticeably better than LD, T5, T3 etc.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Sharp screen?
epp_b @ 10/19/2005 8:29:40 PM # Q
Hey, that's the third comment I've seen about the T|X *not* having a screen whine...looking good!

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}
RE: Sharp screen?
hkklife @ 10/19/2005 11:24:55 PM # Q
No whine here either. Looking good (other than the bungled CDMA Bluetooth!)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
OT: Jeff Kirvin meltdown (HAL 2000-style)
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/20/2005 10:45:39 PM # Q
After reading Surur's posts about Mr. Kirvin, I went over to 1src.com and witnessed Kirvin decompensating in a public forum. How tragic.

http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98779&page=4&pp=15

His behaviour is truly shocking (no doubt later he'll blame it on him being under "stress") and Kirvin has revealed himself to be a true nutcase. I doubt there will be ANY Palmapologists left that are willing to defend Kirvin's latest psychotic break...


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

O(n)T(opic) - RE: Sharp screen?
T. @ 10/21/2005 12:00:51 AM # Q
No whine on this TX either. And the screen is MUCH sharper than my T3. It is VERY noticeable when they are sitting side by side. It also washes out significantly less (but still to some degree) in the bright sunlight.

I thought it was identical to the LD and that they both had the same quality (color saturation, etc. or whatever the correct buzzwords are) as the TE2.

Jeff Kirvin (Dr Opinion) = p0wN3d!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/21/2005 2:12:27 AM # Q








Chump got exactly what the deserved...

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Sharp screen?
rsc1000 @ 10/21/2005 1:45:21 PM # Q
TVOR - you are a big a$$. Stay on topic troll.

Jeff Kirvin checks into Rehab facility. Film at 11.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/21/2005 11:48:26 PM # Q




Kirvin/Dr Opinion just "lost it". Even his Kiddie fanclub members are slackjawed by his latest psychotic break.

One word: Haloperidol.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Eulogy to Kirvin
sr4 @ 10/22/2005 1:43:27 PM # Q
Some-one said what I can not (being banned and all...)

Today, 12:14 PM #47
archangel
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 627

I fall in to the catagory of people that really did not like the way Kirvin does podcasts. He contradicts himself week to week and acts like a child when people disagree with him. His rants went from cute in the beginning to stomach turning over the last few months. I for one am happy Alan is taking over.

I just had to take a break from the Kirvin butt kissing to tell the truth many people probably are thinking but wont post. A break even for a month will be great. I might actually get through a few podcasts now.
__________________
My Current Gadgets:
Tapwave Zodiac 2, Apple Ipod Photo 60GB, Nintendo DS, Nokia N-Gage QD


http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=863013&postcount=47

Surur

RE: kirvin eulogy
medevilenemy @ 10/23/2005 1:46:47 PM # Q
zip it dude, that's enough.

RE: Sharp screen?
sr4 @ 10/23/2005 2:58:25 PM # Q
Midevil dude, who do you think you are, that you keep on thinking I would listen to you?

Surur

RE: Sharp screen?
rcartwright @ 10/23/2005 3:49:55 PM # Q
The screen on my TX is excellent with no whine. In fact the only whinning I have encounted lately is sewer and VoR going into misquote mode about Jeff Kirvin. In case you bothered to listen to the podcast he was taking a sabatical to write more. Now frankly I for one doubt he will be back at least for a while more than a month.

Most folks would consider being sick of slanderous attacks as a good reason to get out of something.

You two are pathetic.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Sharp screen?
svrontis @ 10/23/2005 5:44:51 PM # Q
Worse than pathetic, Surur is boring and repetitve; whereas our little friend the The Vat of Refuse is always good for a laugh.

RE: Sharp screen?
sr4 @ 10/23/2005 6:59:46 PM # Q
I strive for facts, not entertainment.

Surur

Voice of dumbness is a nasty little person. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/23/2005 10:15:14 PM # Q
> "...You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:..."

Voice of Dumbness: the link you posted doesn't work. Not only are you a nasty little whiney person, but you're also incompetant. :)

I'd feel bad for poor Mr. Kirving if he really has lost his job. Not because I've ever listened to a podcast -- I've got better things to do with my time than listen to tech pundits on a frickin' *ipod*.

Rather, I'd feel bad because if he pisses you off, he's probably a pretty cool guy. :)



------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Sharp screen?
bradleyboy @ 10/23/2005 11:56:28 PM # Q
Voice of dumbness is a nasty little person. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/23/2005 10:15:14 PM

> "...You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:..."

Voice of Dumbness: the link you posted doesn't work. Not only are you a nasty little whiney person, but you're also incompetant. :)

Hey, Dr. Dumbass,

the link does work; you have to log in to view the forums, dip****. Oh, and by the way, when labelling someone as incompetent, it helps to spell "incompetent" correctly...

Kirvin is a creep, and the karmic circle closed right on his little head. I won't lose any sleep over it.

RE: Sharp screen?
Dr Opinion @ 10/24/2005 12:55:03 AM # Q
> "...the link does work; you have to log in to view the forums..."

Don't waste my time posting links to resources I'm going to have to *register* to look at. Cripes-on-a-bike! For the 99.999% of humanity that don't have a password for joe-random-palm-site the link doesn't work. Deal with it. :)

> "...it helps to spell "incompetent" correctly..."

Not important with Voice of Dumbness. :)

(1) He's pretty slow, and doesn't notice my horrific spelling and grammar,

(2) I'm sure as hell not going to waste another second of my life on him by going back and double checking. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Jeff Kirvin = FIRED?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/24/2005 1:54:14 AM # Q
Voice of dumbness is a nasty little person. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/23/2005 10:15:14 PM

> "...You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:..."

Voice of Dumbness: the link you posted doesn't work. Not only are you a nasty little whiney person, but you're also incompetant. :)

Hey, Dr. Dumbass,

the link does work; you have to log in to view the forums, dip****. Oh, and by the way, when labelling someone as incompetent, it helps to spell "incompetent" correctly...

Kirvin is a creep, and the karmic circle closed right on his little head. I won't lose any sleep over it.

Odds are Kirvin just got fired and is having difficulties dealing with it, ergo the oh-so-public psychotic break.

He should simply have gone quietly into the night. Instead, Kirvin's silly ego mandated that he grandstand for a few days, threatening that he would take his ball and go home. No doubt he was hoping to hear a few fanboys tell him how "wonderful" they think he is and then BEG him to stay. Now Dr Opinion/Jeff Kirvin shows up here and takes a few cowardly shots at me. How sad.

Get help, Jeff. Please. For your sake.

TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

vibrating alarm?

joad @ 10/19/2005 9:49:59 PM # Q
So tell me again why they couldn't figure out how to put a vibrating alarm into this...? Gotta be saving a few cents, eh?


Shades of the choice of Piezo vs. normal speaker in the original Pilot still haunt Palm's specifications. Shouldn't a vibrating alarm just be a "given" in a $300 PDA nowadays?

WiFi, Bluetooth, nice big hi-res screen... but no vibrating alarm. Nice going again, Palm.

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/19/2005 11:03:13 PM # Q
Yeah, and it doesn't come with a kitchen sink either - which is another thing I would never use.

RE: vibrating alarm?
AdamaDBrown @ 10/19/2005 11:46:12 PM # Q
svrontis, do you have to sneer at other people's requirements? Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean he wouldn't. Let the fellow talk about his vibrating alarm.

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/19/2005 11:59:05 PM # Q
Not snearing. Just noting that everyone has different requirements.

RE: vibrating alarm?
bdholmes @ 10/20/2005 6:03:14 AM # Q
The missing vibrating alarm exemplifies everything that is wrong with Palm's philosophy over the past few years. Instead of continuing to make genuinely useful life tools, they have changed their raison d'etre to the creation of toys for PDA fanboys. They will defend the vibrating alarm omission by saying it will affect battery life. But if they are so concerned about battery life, why is it necessary to have a 312Mhz processor, big, bright 64bit colour screen, and wifi? Has PalmOS become so bloated over the past few years that CPU speed has had to increase 1500%+ over the 20Mhz processor that is more than sufficient on my Vx to keep up? Or is the truth that Palm just wants to appeal to the minority of enthusiasts that buy a PDA to play pretty games and watch movies? Yes there are some people that choose their PDA based on how dazzling the screen looks in the shop and the MHZ number, but I like to think Palm traditinally tried to appeal to the more discerning consumer who appreciate the elegant simplicity of the Palm interface, the long battery life, and the pocketable, take-everywhere size. Palm could have left (or at least not devoted themselves to) the market for video-pdas, instead it has chased HP and the rest of the Wince toy makers down the gadgets garden path, leaving the serious PDA user with six-year old equipment and themselves with reduced market-share and revenue.

RE: vibrating alarm?
interlard @ 10/20/2005 9:36:30 AM # Q
I think bdholmes makes an interesting point, here. Palm give us bells and whistles when what we really need are genuinely useful features.

The vibrating alarm seems much more useful. How many times do you take your Palm out of your pocked only to see that you missed a meeting?

Palm OS needs a 300+MHz processor because it's mostly emulating the code for the old 20MHz processor. But there's not much software to make use of the new ARM CPUs since we're still stuck on Garnet. It's just a useless "feature". If only Palm had let developers just re-compile the same programs to run on the new CPUs, we'd be making some use of all those MHz by now. The approach worked for Apple twice (68000 to PowerPC, now PowerPC to Intel).

BTW, in the UK, Alf Garnett was a 1970s sitcom character. A rude, racist, grouchy old man. In the watered-down US version he's called Archie Bunker. So just think of Palm OS Garnet as Palm OS Archie Bunker.

RE: vibrating alarm?
joad @ 10/20/2005 12:36:06 PM # Q
I think the others put more nicely what I'm trying to say. I am happy as pie to be able to play MP3's, movies, whatever on my PDA, IF I WANT (and often I do).

HOWEVER - 20 years ago I had a pager that came with a vibrating alarm (nice strong one!). Palm belatedly put one into the Palm V about 7 (?) years ago. That model had vibration but no mp3 functionality, but they still sold a few of them. They were pitched toward Enterprise and yuppies, and you can bet the vibrating alarms weren't put in there just for cheap jollies.

For people who actually use PDAs for business and/or have some respect for the people sitting next to them on the bus or in the theatre, a vibrating alarm is as essential to a PDA as a viewing screen. My point was - where is Palm's head when they create "PDAs" that can't properly function as a basic PDA, but seem to be targeted only to grab away business from SONY's PSP. Hint to Palm: ain't gonna happen.

If people want a PSP they can probably find SOME place that carries them. A PDA should be FIRST a PDA, THEN you can start adding candy to widen your audience. Start removing Vibrating Alarms, Hardware Buttons, Memory, etc. and REPLACE it with the whiz-bang stuff and you are lost...
Putting in WiFi/Bluetooth and removing vibrating alarms in a PDA is like filling up on dessert and then realizing you have no room for dinner. If vibrating alarms are "the kitchen sink" to you, then you probably should be buying a PSP instead of a PDA.

RE: vibrating alarm?
bdholmes @ 10/20/2005 1:15:03 PM # Q
I couldn't agree more. Palm has lost its core identity. The foundation of Palm's PDAs that should never have been compromised were size and battery life. The sooner it slims back down to Palm V form-factor, reintroduces the basics such as decent battery life measured in days rather than hours (some reviews say the Tx lasts just two hours with Wifi and backlight on full), a good but not power-scoffing screen with enough colours for contrast but not thousands that require hundreds of Mhz to display. It will sell, and not just to the business\serious PDA user, but average Joe who walks into a shop and handles the super-svelte Palm that is 50% thinner than the relative brick Wince device next to it.

Vibrating Alarm - $55 phone wins over $300 Tx
ChiA @ 10/20/2005 1:36:39 PM # Q
Svrontis, please explain to us all two things:

1 - How and why Palm was able to fit a vibrating alarm into the m505 four years ago but is unable to fit it into the physically larger Tx.

2 - How and why a basic, US$55 mobile phone comes with a vibrating alarm (a new Nokia 1100 contract free) yet the much larger and sophisticated $299 Tx is unable to offer such a feature.

Yes, you can set an alarm on the Nokia 1100 and it will vibrate at a given time or for a given reminder at a particular time - just like most PDAs with the exception of the Tx.

So again, why does a $55 phone have a vibrating alert for appointments but the $299 PDA doesn't?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
hkklife @ 10/20/2005 3:13:05 PM # Q
Why does my new $10 rechargable flashlight from Home Depot have a red LED that lights up when it's plugged in and charging? Oh, and it turns GREEN when the battery is full!

Also, someone gave me a novelty voice memo recording keychain as a gag gift last year. It couldn't have cost more than $10 from Wal-Mart etc. It held at least a few minutes' worth of scratchy audio memos that didn't sound too terribly much worse than my T3 used to.


Why does Palm continue to skimp on the crucial features mentioned above?

Answer: G*R*E*E*D & A*R*R*O*G*A*N*C*E
(with a dash of l*a*z*i*n*e*s*s* and c*h*e*a*p*n*e*s*s thrown in for good measure)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: vibrating alarm?
cervezas @ 10/20/2005 3:14:30 PM # Q
So again, why does a $55 phone have a vibrating alert for appointments but the $299 PDA doesn't?

I think it's Zen thing: if you really needed to be vibrated the appointment probably wasn't worth going to anyway.

Ya know, if they hadn't got rid of the screen whine you guys all complained about you might feel the vibration from that when your TX came out of sleep mode for an alarm. Didn't think about that, did you?



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: vibrating alarm?
hkklife @ 10/20/2005 3:17:57 PM # Q
IF Palm were to introduce a device "Palm V '06 Edition" with the specs of the TX but with:

-Improved CDMA Bluetooth DUN support (since many execs use Verizon & Sprint phones)
-Charging LED (Palm V & m500s had this)
-Slightly better battery life (a Palm V & m500 hallmark)
-A voice recorder (m500 series had this)
-Metal case (Palm V & m500 series had this)
They'd sell SCORES of units and have the first PDA since the N760C Sony with compelling specs in a decently slim formfactor.

Basically, the PDA equivalent of the RAZR. With build quality up to par, people would actually consider paying a PREMIUM for a device liks this--yes, even today with the subnotebook/smartphone/iPod competition. A solid basic design could last 2+ years with tweaks to case color and internal improvements to the screen, CPU, OS etc.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: vibrating alarm?
cervezas @ 10/20/2005 5:07:35 PM # Q
IF Palm were to introduce a device "Palm V '06 Edition" with the specs of the TX but with:...

Wull heck, if you don't care about the color screen don't stop there... make it a Visor Edge with those specs! You could pop in a Sprint DigitalLink for those times when you aren't around a WiFi hotspot. Even place a call, in a pinch.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: vibrating alarm?
Rome @ 10/20/2005 7:23:48 PM # Q
Why does my $15K Chevy have many cup holders while my $70K Porsche have none?



RE: vibrating alarm?
hkklife @ 10/20/2005 7:32:38 PM # Q
Mock me all you want smart a$$...to date the Visor Edge is STILL the sleekest PDA ever released (aside from the hideously placed external stylus holder).

And the Palm is still THE paradigm of a sleek, thin, ultra-pocketable executive "status" PDA. Palm's slowly eroding marketshare is certainly somehow tied to their increasingly unstylish, bland, and chunky PDAs

The ONLY reason the RAZR has been the hottest cell phone for over a year now is because of its SIZE, looks, build quality and (to a far lesser degree) good RF performance.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Porsches have cupholders so your argument's bull!
ChiA @ 10/20/2005 7:55:22 PM # Q
Rome said Why does my $15K Chevy have many cup holders while my $70K Porsche have none?

Thanks for proving yourself wrong and showing everyone here just how out of touch you are.

The Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet costs £105K (that's about $185K ) and comes with "a retractable cup holder with space for two drinks containers" (Thank you, Porsche UK).

So again, why does a $55 phone have vibrating alarm whilst a $299 PDA doesn't? There's definitely space for it there when you look at the dissection.

To borrow your car theme, it's like getting reverse gear on the $15K Chevy Chase but no reverse gear on the $70K Porsche.

Sounds like you've been taken for a ride Rome if you dropped $70K on a Porsche yet didn't get the cupholder you were entitled to. Now that would make Porsche look mean!

That's how Palm looks when it asks $300 for a PDA but doesn't bother to put a vibrating alert into it.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/20/2005 8:16:34 PM # Q
Cervezas said if you really needed to be vibrated the appointment probably wasn't worth going to anyway.

The thing is when you're at a board meeting/cinema/theatre/funeral/interview/studio not everyone around you wants or needs to hear those infamous Palm "bleeps" reminding you abouting needing to be somewhere else in a couple of hour's time.

If you need to switch off sound because you're in a sound sensitive area and your PDA doesn't have vibrating alert, then how do you know when to go to your meeting?

No doubt at this rate, David would endorse Palm getting rid of the Calendar/Date Book app altogether in order to improve the "Zen of Palm".

He'd argue: "You'd remember all the important appointments, all the other ones probably won't be worth going to anyway, so what's the point of having a Calendar app and button on the Palm?"

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
Timothy Rapson @ 10/20/2005 8:20:46 PM # Q
I want a model with
Nice ARM processor
At least 32 MB RAM
SD expansion slot
MP3 and video player
HVGA
Plastic flip cover
jog dial
VGA or better camera
cradle
microphone
Nice software bundle
Compatible with FITALY
less than 5 inches tall, 3 inches wide and .6 inches thick
WiFi
BlueTooth
Could that be so hard?


m500 and Voice Recording
ChiA @ 10/20/2005 8:39:58 PM # Q
hkklife said A voice recorder (m500 series had this)

Well if it did then Palm must've forgotten to build it into my m505 when I bought it in 2001. To add insult to injury the Palm Desktop installer added the Voice Memo app onto my Desktop!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
hkklife @ 10/21/2005 12:57:13 AM # Q
Sorry! I meant the T|T series (it's been one of those days...)


Still, you see my point.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/21/2005 2:49:46 AM # Q
1. I don't owe you an explanation about anything.

2. Looking at your post, you seem to be suggesting that the TX is a piece of garbage because it does not have a vibrating alarm. If that is your view, then I acknowledge that you are entitled to your own opinion. However, speaking for myself, I had a vibrating alarm function in my trusty old m500, my T2 and my Treo 650. I have never used that function (ie, after I discovered how to switch it off) and I wish that I didn't have to pay for it 3 times.

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/21/2005 2:57:35 AM # Q
PS. My BMW Z4 comes with those stupid cup holders and I wish that I didn't have to pay for those either.

RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/21/2005 9:38:29 AM # Q
Don't start putting words in my mouth svrontis - I've not suggested the Tx is garbage, I'm merely stating it's odd that Palm decides to leave the vibrating alert out of its handheld at a time when pagers, most cell phones (which are cheaper) and most other PDAs have such functionality built in. It strikes me as Palm going against what the market desires which may be a foolish thing to do.

We're all free to our opinions but I for one will be sticking to a Treo 650 rather than the Tx because of the vibrating alarm and voice recording.

The cupholders don't affect the car's primary function of moving you from A to B whereas the lack of a vibrating alert impairs the PDA's function of reminding you when an appointment is due - with a Tx you'd miss an appointment either because you've had to switch off the sound in a sensitive environment or you're in such a noisy environment that you don't hear the alarm!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/21/2005 9:53:09 AM # Q
svrontis said I don't owe you an explanation about anything

maybe because you're incapable of giving an explanation?

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
cervezas @ 10/21/2005 1:18:55 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Mock me all you want smart a$$...to date the Visor Edge is STILL the sleekest PDA ever released (aside from the hideously placed external stylus holder).

I wasn't mocking you. I much prefer the Visor Edge form factor to the Palm V. I really *would* like to see one with those specs.

If I'd been mocking you I would have noted that you could plug your RayCom personal massager Springboard module into it. ;-)

Chia has the opposite problem:
Cervezas said if you really needed to be vibrated the appointment probably wasn't worth going to anyway.

The thing is when you're at a board meeting/cinema/theatre/funeral/interview/studio not everyone around you wants or needs to hear those infamous Palm "bleeps" reminding you abouting needing to be somewhere else in a couple of hour's time.

I talked about using the whine of the screen as a vibrating alarm and you still didn't get that this was a joke? Dude, lighten up!


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: vibrating alarm?
rsc1000 @ 10/21/2005 1:49:50 PM # Q
Interlard, you stated:

>>Palm OS needs a 300+MHz processor because it's mostly emulating the code for the old 20MHz processor. But there's not much software to make use of the new ARM CPUs since we're still stuck on Garnet. It's just a useless "feature". If only Palm had let developers just re-compile the same programs to run on the new CPUs, we'd be making some use of all those MHz by now.

First, even the first OS 5 ARM device - the T|T1 running a 144mhz OMAP processor (slow compared to this and most OS 5 ARM models) ran 'emulated' old Palm OS software MUCH faster than the old, pre-OS 5 motorola cpu devices it was emulating It varied (and there were some exceptions) - but generally if it ran it, it ran it many times faster. The more the software stayed with / relied on the old OS APIs, the faster it ran. That's because the emulation is bolted in at a very low-level - in fact OS 5 is itself a re-write/ re-compile for ARM, of the underlying OS code - with only the exposed API being in 68K emulation.

Secondly - developers can and do write native ARM code for Palm OS 5 / ARM. Virtually all new 'commercial' games and any software that needs the speed (docs to go, etc), has had the ability (and they've used it) to do what palmsource orinally called 'ARMlets' - ARM compiled code snippets / funtions. They eventually improved this (and changed the name to PNOlets) - and now MANY developers doing commercial work do 99% of the apps in ARM (only a 68k - 'emulated mode' loader). Thta's how the opensource guys have been able to bring games like Quake to Palm OS - you sure as heck will NEVER run that on an old pre-OS 5 devcie.

What we really need from PalmSource is a full, puerly native OS API (and of course, the ARM OS WITH multi-tasking to go with it). And PalmSOurce did do this - it was called Cobolt (boyt am i opening up a can of worms nut uttering that word!). We all know what has happened there. So now, take 2: Palm OS on linux. BTW, this is really: Cobolt high-level code + APIs + UI on Linux (no need to throw away all the code you've spent big $$$ developing if you can help right?).

RE: vibrating alarm?
hoodoo @ 10/21/2005 2:22:43 PM # Q
"Compatible with FITALY"

That'll have the masses storming Walmart once Palm plasters that onto the packaging!

"The cupholders don't affect the car's primary function of moving you from A to B"

Alas, they certainly affect, however, the driver's ability to navigate the car from A to B if he has to hold the coffee cup between his legs!

RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/21/2005 4:40:39 PM # Q
cervezas said I talked about using the whine of the screen as a vibrating alarm and you still didn't get that this was a joke?

Yea I got it alright but the biggest joke of all is the top of the range Palm has no vibrating alert!

If you want good, thoughful wit and humour, you can't do better than Hoodoo's comment about the coffee cup between the legs!

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/23/2005 12:24:17 AM # Q
I am be wrong (again), but Palm is not marketing the TX as a 'top of the range' model. It's just a variant on the TE2 - with a bigger screen, more memory and WiFi - for $100 extra.

The 'top of the range' model is the Treo 650 - and, unfortunately, that thing has a vibrating alarm.

RE: vibrating alarm?
epp_b @ 10/23/2005 9:37:42 PM # Q
["Why does my $15K Chevy have many cup holders while my $70K Porsche have none?"]

ROTFL! Good One!

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}

RE: vibrating alarm?
epp_b @ 10/23/2005 9:37:42 PM # Q
["Why does my $15K Chevy have many cup holders while my $70K Porsche have none?"]

ROTFL! Good One!

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}

RE: vibrating alarm?
epp_b @ 10/23/2005 9:40:02 PM # Q
Doh...stupid browser re-post feature...

if (!$broke) {
DontFixIt()
}
There are none so blind...
ChiA @ 10/23/2005 10:02:14 PM # Q
... as those who choose not to see, epp_b!
( http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8159#114103 )

As for svrontis, he seems to think that adding a vibrating alert has been pushing up the price of Palm's PDAs rather than the $30 million Palm spent on its name and the $11 million (old) Palm spent on the waste of time that was BeOS.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
Dr Opinion @ 10/23/2005 10:30:17 PM # Q
> "...why they couldn't figure out how to put a vibrating alarm into this..."

That's a stupid question. Obviously palm know how to make vibrating alarms: my TC has one. Duh.

The real question is, "why should we include random feature x".

There is only one valid answer. "On a cost/benefit basis, feature x will enable us to sell more units."

That's the only reason. That alone. Any other reason would be stupid.

So how do you solve this strange conundrum? Well, you survey people. You can read about that sort of thing here: http://www.designtech.com/featurecost.html

Clearly in this case Palm decided that it was more important to beat the psychologically important $299 price point than add some irrelevant features that few people want. I mean, really, what percentage of users ever actually used voice memo? Like, every cellphone since 2002 has had voice memo, right? And how many people use it? Like, no-one. I think we can safely scrap that. :)

The "charged" LED is irrelevant. You can look at the screen if you want to check charging status. This is a palm! Just plug it in when you're sitting at the PC and forget about it. It won't run out. It's not like a wince box where you have to keep checking if its charging. I mean, get real.

And vibrating alarm? I don't know about you, but I keep my palm in a case. A nice, soft, comfy case that prevents any semblance of vibrating alarm reaching the outside world. Most people use cases too. If the palm is not in a case, duh, you'll see the alarm on the screen. If it's in the case, you won't feel it.

So easy. People voted for bluetooth, wifi, 128MB non-volatile ram, fantastic screen, and a cool black chassis, all for under $300.

The rest is fluff. And I'm glad Palm didn't listen to the fluff lovers.

The T|X rocks. Good job palm! :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: vibrating alarm?
joad @ 10/24/2005 1:17:38 AM # Q
I think David was just making a wisecrack there about the "Zen of Palm," at least I found it pretty funny.

Maybe it's more "Zenful" to the Mountain View bunch to have their meetings and movies constantly peppered with those damn alarms and cell phones going off. Of course, if they keep designing crap like they've been making then fewer and fewer Palms will be in those theaters and meetings and then .... HEY- "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!"


I have worked with people who default to "automatic" alarms that beep an hour before the meeting, then they snooze them over and over up until a few minutes before they're supposed to be there. Fricking annoying and inconsiderate of everyone NOT involved in their inability to focus on how to read a watch and remember a schedule. A vibrating alarm still makes a little noise, but it's much less intrusive and the range is quite limited mostly to the affected person.

I know "Zen" is tough to comprehend, but one thing it might be known to involve is a quiet mind. I make the case that vibrating alarms are more supportive of that process.



RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/24/2005 2:45:46 AM # Q
Dr Opinion said Most people use cases too. If the palm is not in a case, duh, you'll see the alarm on the screen. If it's in the case, you won't feel it.

I can't stare at a handheld's screen 24 hours a day waiting to see if it shows an alarm on screen. I understand most people are like me. It seems you are unlike most people.

The case vibrates with the device so you do actually feel it, even the vibrating alert on the $55 mobile in its case.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
svrontis @ 10/24/2005 8:42:48 PM # Q
> As for svrontis, he seems to think that adding a vibrating alert has been pushing up the price of Palm's PDAs rather than the $30 million Palm spent on its name and the $11 million (old) Palm spent on the waste of time that was BeOS.

I don't understand the connection between a vibrating alarm (or lack thereof) and the business acquisitions you refer to. Please elaborate.

RE: vibrating alarm?
joad @ 10/24/2005 9:45:34 PM # Q
Budgeting is budgeting, money is money. I think his point is that Palm can decide however and whatever to spend their money on. But if you spend it in one area, you don't have it to spend in another. Hence $30 million invested in the project to make the radical change from PalmOne to Palm, $30 million LESS to invest in basic hardware improvements like across the board vibrating alarms and more sufficient memory in the Treo 650. Are vibrating alarms REALLY that expensive, or as useless as a few seem to insist in this thread?

Even you would have to admit that skimping on the Treo 650 memory and cheaping out on the vibrating alarms has cost Palm SOME degree of sales. How many sales were and will be lost... who can tell. How many sales were gained by the name change... who can tell. Either way spending that $30 million on the name change was a choice - and it's pretty telling that given the choice Palm would rather spend HUGE amounts of money on minor name changes instead of first improving the basic hardware specifications of their devices.

iPaq used to be the top selling Windoze Pocket PC device, until Dell came along and handed them their heads on a plate. What did Dell do to kick the top dog out? Gave the consumer same and better hardware specs at a lower pricepoint, and supported the product and continued innovating. (HP's corporate schizophrenia didn't hurt them either...).

There were plenty of other time managers and portable calendar devices when Palm came along (I had a Sharp back in the late '80s, a Newton in the 90's, various pen & paper solutions), but Palm kicked them all out of the running by building a thoughtful device and then improving it over the years. Now they seem to be making so many backward steps from the basics that it's sickening to watch.

It's not the NAME that built Palm - it's the DEVICES/OS, stupid! You can't dump all that $$$$$$ on dumb name changes and then come along and say you had to leave off basic elements of a PDA like memory and vibrating alarms to meet "pricepoints." It's complete B.S., like a guy that spends all his money gambling and then goes begging that he can't afford a tip for the cabbie to the airport because he needs to meet a "pricepoint" for the trip.

Palm has/had the money, they just chose to spend it on some magic beans instead of fixing the roof. They continue to wonder why the carpet continues to get wet, then send the next MBA out looking for more magic beans....

RE: vibrating alarm?
ChiA @ 10/25/2005 7:12:17 AM # Q
joad, I'm glad you understood my point perfectly. Palm seems to feel it'll gain more customers from those words PALM than by putting a vibrating alert into its handheld.

I will not buy a handheld or smartphone without a vibrating alert, so Palm has lost a customer as far as its handhelds are concerned. Thank goodness it's still in the Treo 650. The big question is what proportion of Palm's customers feel the same way as myself. Evidently Palm feels we're too small a proportion for it to be concerned.

Ironically enough my first PDA was a Newton without a vibrating alert but after owning many phones and a m505 with the feature, there's no question of my doing without it now.

If Palm gets rid of vibrating alert on the next Treo at a time I outgrow the 650, then that'll be the time I go off to the alternatives. It's easy now, even for a Mac user, to switch to a Blackberry, WinMob or Symbian device - the vast majority of which offer vibrating alert as standard. I'll miss the PalmOS but vibrating alert is a feature I can't do without.

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
Simony @ 10/25/2005 12:25:57 PM # Q
Thanks for the "clarification" (I use that word loosely).

I could give you a lecture on the difference between buying a capital asset and spending money on inventory. But what's the point? There is nothing for me to gain in giving you an education. No doubt, you would find yet another spurious way to throw it back at me (because it seems that nobody is entitled to disagree with you). Life's too short for that.

So ... Fine. You win. You are right and I'm wrong. OK?

Let me just add this - I hope that someday Palm produces a unit which has all the features you may desire (including, but not limited to, a vibrating alarm) and that you have enough money to buy it.

Who's you?
ChiA @ 10/25/2005 2:21:43 PM # Q
Simony, just who are you addressing in your comment? I shall wait for your clarification before making any potential response to your comment.

As for handhelds with all the features, there are already handhelds with all the features I desire just sadly they don't come with Palm OS :-)

Money's not the problem, the problem is Palm doesn't make a handheld with those features; thank goodness the Treo 650 has those features so for now I'm happy with that but built-in wi-fi and more memory will be nice!

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" - Dwight D. Eisenhower

RE: vibrating alarm?
Hartmeister @ 10/27/2005 12:21:24 PM # Q
Boy it would be great to move this to a different topic such as: "Palm has lost its soul". I, too, wish Palm would still make a monocrome display unit to conserve power but more imporantly is the issue whether Palm is using its new architecture for power consumption to the maximum? Let me give you a good example. There is the Palm Infocenter review (http://tinyurl.com/9yzc9) of the TX stating that the life of the TX playing MP3s is six and a half hours . Contrast this with the supposedly power thirsty new Dell Axim X51v (which Palm has said that this model is directly aimed at)with a MP3 playing time of 13 hours and 28 minutes as tested over at Pocket PC Thoughts ( http://tinyurl.com/8v4hl ). This despite the fact that the roughly use the same processors and Palm uses a 1250 mAh lithium ion rechargeable battery compared with the Dell's standard 1100 mAh lithium ion battery (which is user replacable AND you can buy 2200 mAh to double the battery life). Now this doesn't mean that the Dell is a wunderkind of battery life. It seams to run the same amount off of standby that it used to (I think you would still be lucky to go beyond a week with minimal usage without getting recharge) but still the Palm OS needs to be able to step down its processor to maximize the battery life of its product.

Reply to this comment

Disgusting

ozz @ 10/19/2005 11:45:26 PM # Q
Now I know why they always say you should never watch sausage being made. Yuck!
RE: Disgusting
AdamaDBrown @ 10/19/2005 11:49:01 PM # Q
Hey, it's just ICs... :)

Reply to this comment

Replaceable Battery

i705 @ 10/20/2005 4:39:45 AM # Q
I just don't understand why Palm couldn't put a battery door so you can swap a battery in once the battery is dead. Sony clie handhelds got one and most pocket pcs. I'm not buying a Palm till they make a user-replaceable battery. Even more, I've owned a Sony T665c in 2003 and it has vibrating alarm. Palm doesn't care about those features I guess.

RE: Replaceable Battery
samdapdaman @ 10/20/2005 6:11:13 AM # Q
This guy knows. i have a t3 and one of it's best features was the vibrate. The voicememo was also a good feature though not clear to listen to. i have one of those fat power to go batt backs, fantastic. Just looks ugly as in public

-palm the same mistakes with each model, only, just more advanced ones (still waiting 4 cobalt)
RE: Replaceable Battery
hkklife @ 10/20/2005 11:43:42 AM # Q
Palm could even have a removable battery and have the novel approach ala Nokia in the late 90s of letting the CUSTOMER have the responsibility/worry of providing their OWN vibrating battery!

Remember the old Nokia 62xxx series cell phones? They had a stock NiMH battery but you could buy a (pricey) optional li-ion battery w/ vibrating ring &alarm alert built in. Or the old rumble packs for the Nintendo64 that slotted into the underside of the controllers pads. See, Palm, I'm always thinking of new ways to generate revenue for you guys!

The voice recorder is STILL an unacceptable omission, as is the charging LED in the power button.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Replaceable Battery
cervezas @ 10/20/2005 12:04:02 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Remember the old Nokia 62xxx series cell phones? They had a stock NiMH battery but you could buy a (pricey) optional li-ion battery w/ vibrating ring &alarm alert built in.

That's a great idea. I didn't know anyone had done that.

And speaking of features as accessories, I wonder what would keep someone from developing a voice recorder SDIO card? That wouldn't even require Palm to put a microphone in the hardware.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Replaceable Battery
joad @ 10/20/2005 12:55:51 PM # Q
Seems much simpler to just build the vibrator in. If you use calendars or tasks you'll need it anyway, why make me buy a special $50 battery to do what it should do anyway? The damn "missing cradle" cost me that already!

RE: Replaceable Battery
hkklife @ 10/20/2005 2:04:59 PM # Q
Thanks, Beersie ;-) See, sometimes even we can see eye-to-eye;-)

Honestly, I can actually somewhat see Palm's reason for not wanting a vibrating alarm internally--there really might have been a reason for all of those T|Tx series digitizer shift woes. What with the vibrating alarm and the dammed slider going up and down all day, it's entirely possible that was too much rattling going on. By placing the responsibility caveat emptor-style on the buyer, Palm doesn't have yet another warranty headache to deal with. I'm starting to sound like Kirvin now, aren't I? LOL!

This is the sort of thing we need to see Palm spending time & $ on. Not day-glo flip cases, gold-plated styli, Schiffer/Jordan limited edition models, retail kiosks etc etc.

Look at the best "real" Palm accessories offered the past few years:

Power-to-Go Sled: Great product but was initially too expensive and had next to ZERO retai availability
Mini UC USB cradle: Same woes as above.
Palm GPS Bluetooth Navigator kit: Overpriced, unavailable at retail. Sporadic/late availability on Palm.com

The Camera Companion/USB to go adapter for the LD is still NOWHERE in sight despite being promised last summer.

Rebranded (overpriced) SD cards and bulky (overpriced)
"universal" cases add NOTHING to the bottom line and only reinforce the notion that Palm's out there to make a quick buck and sock it to their dwindling customer base.

With a leaner, meaner, more value-oriented line of PDAs should come a line of leaner, meaner and, dare we say, INNOVATIVE accessories?


P.S. If the TX DID have a removable battery you could offer at least two different capacity batteries, both featuring vibrating alarms and a small charging LED. What a way to make up for the shortcomings of the T|E formfactor!


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Replaceable Battery
stephanpark @ 10/21/2005 4:48:40 PM # Q
I know this is probably silly but how about some sort of a bluetooth application that internally IMs a bluetooth phone to ring? It's a work around with no hardware. Every business person who is remotely tech seems to have one of those annoying bluetooth headsets so maybe palm could give this little app for free?

RE: Replaceable Battery
Dr Opinion @ 10/24/2005 9:56:31 PM # Q
> "...What a way to make up for the shortcomings of the T|E formfactor..."

Like the wince boxes have a *better* form factor? Nitwit. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Reply to this comment

Blazer webform upload support

visage @ 10/20/2005 9:22:18 PM # Q
Does the Blazer webbrowser on the TX support uploading files from the SD card? (such as uploading images to a site like imageshack.us)
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