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Comments on: PiTech Develops 3 MegaPixel Palm OS Smartphone

PiTech i10 Palm OS Smartphoneupdated Portable Innovation Technology (PiTech) today announced a new Palm Powered smartphone. The PiTech i10 is the world's first Palm OS smartphone to include a three megapixel camera with auto focus and anti hand shaking features.
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Now for the million dollar question...

AdamaDBrown @ 10/26/2005 3:02:30 PM # Q
Does it ever show up here?

RE: Now for the million dollar question...
hkklife @ 10/26/2005 3:11:19 PM # Q
Has anythihg other than the Treo line EVERY shown up (here or otherwise) since that 66mhz Dragonball OS 4 Samsung on Sprint?

The new mantra is "Treo or bust!" Remember it well.

Palm coulda saved themselves 30 mil by simply renaming the whole company "Treo" or "TreOne" and jettisoning all of their traditional handhelds in the process.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Now for the million dollar question...
Frenchie @ 10/26/2005 3:42:34 PM # Q
?Why the ? around the quotes?


Nice phone. I'll never see one in the US.

The world will end in 2006. Just as it was predicted in the bible along with the release of Microsoft Longhorn.... :p

RE: Now for the million dollar question...
fishtastic @ 10/26/2005 4:15:35 PM # Q
Just after I get a XDA Exec.......

Quad band is nice for the US market, EDGE is more impotant in US than Europe since we have 3G, yet it only gives release dates for Europe and Asia. Nice specs but does it look good?

Q2 2006 is a long time away also.

I think I'll stick with my xda and I'll give my treo to a good home.

Fish

RE: Now for the million dollar question...
LiveFaith @ 10/26/2005 4:35:07 PM # Q
I have a reeeeeal good home. :-
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Now for the million dollar question...
AdamaDBrown @ 10/26/2005 5:39:50 PM # Q
If any of PiTech's stuff is going to make it across the pond, it would probably be this one. Quad-band is only neccessary for NorthAm carriers such as Cingular, and EDGE is more prevalent here than in Europe, where UMTS has a better foothold.

RE: Which Pipe Dream Should I Hang on to?
bsquare @ 10/26/2005 11:35:31 PM # Q

So which pipe dream should I hang onto? That this phone will EVER see the light of day here in North America (or be readily available with my/your carrier of choice for that matter) or that Palm will ever release a NON-KEYBOARD Treo (ala Treo 180G, that's right "G"). Hmmm.. Guess I'll just revert back to B&W and get that Treo 180G on clearance while I still can...


RE: Now for the million dollar question...
fishtastic @ 10/27/2005 5:15:43 AM # Q
LiveFaith QUOTE "I have a reeeeeal good home. :-"

Is that reeeeeal as in 'You have a reeeeeal pretty mouth' and 'squeeell like a pig'?

Scary.

The treo is on it's last legs, it's a veteran from the first month Treo 600 came out in UK so 2 years old give or take a month.

I should keep it around a bit to see if the Universal fails badly over the next month, I don't really trust windows mobile yet. Though, one of my friends keeps hassling me to donate it to him to play with, may be thats the way to get another palm convert.....?

Fish

Mini SD?
silkentiger @ 10/30/2005 2:35:46 AM # Q
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I don't want to encourage people to read furthur than this and give the juvinile name-calling that is going on down there any more attention. :(

Boo. When will these manufacturer's learn. I refuse to adopt to yet another flash memory standard. My spending on flash memory may actually be coming close to what I have spent on PDA's in general overall. Otherwise this is exactly what the Palm platform needs. Innovation. I know, alot of people don't want cameras. Thats not what I am talking about (eventhough I am one who wants something to replace my Canon permanently). No way anyone in the PDA space can compete with Apple or the various other manufactures for single purpose devices. Features are the new clock speed in the mobile space.

Outside the LD's HD, which has been avalible since the creation of the microdrive on PPC and just takes that extra CF slot and makes it internal, Palm has done nothing innovative. Tapwave was the last innovative Palm OS company and they sucked big time. Sony gave up and Handspring got bought and, IMO, got its creativity killed. Does anyone remember HandEra? All innovation in the Palm space has gotten killed off. Now Motorola owns Tapwave's IP. We all know Moto doesn't deliver. They are 100% form over function. At least PiTech has taken a technology which has only been availiable in Japan and Korea and beatean everyone else. I think Sharp has a GSM 3mpx cameraphone but mobileburn hated it and it didn't have autofocus. Bravo PiTech I say.

Reply to this comment

Q2 may be a Looooooong Way Away!

LiveFaith @ 10/26/2005 4:37:34 PM # Q
Q2 2006 could be a loooong way away. This is a phone, not a PDA. Shades of the Samsung SGH-i500 cloud my security for such product announcements.

I think I hear a the teapot beginning to whistle! :-o

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Q2 may be a Looooooong Way Away!
bigredgpk @ 10/28/2005 12:40:43 PM # Q
Isn't Q2 of 2006 also the launch date for the Linux based sucessor to the Palm OS?

Timmay

Reply to this comment

PiTech Pic now available

sr4 @ 10/26/2005 4:44:39 PM # Q
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000397065227/

Its a rendering, and I wonder if this device exists, or if its just a 'Hail Mary' shot from a ODM trying to solicit business.

Surur

RE: PiTech Pic now available
LiveFaith @ 10/26/2005 4:57:44 PM # Q
.... I think I hear the whistle of the coffee pot a little louder! SGH-i500 step back.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: PiTech Pic now available
Texonite @ 10/26/2005 5:29:49 PM # Q
That's NOT the i-10 as the article states.
There are no picture avaliable yet.

Cmon, I'm waiting for you! Cobalt, come here!
Reply to this comment

Hand shake?

e_tellurian @ 10/26/2005 6:34:39 PM # Q
Well to multi task a hand shake is a good choice.

What innovative choices want secure hand shakes?

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

Reply to this comment

Moot

Gekko @ 10/26/2005 9:08:03 PM # Q

You'll never be able to buy one.

The toilet's been flushed and PalmOS is still circling the bowl, "remnants" remain... but not for long.

Bye Bye Apologists.



RE: Moot
cervezas @ 10/26/2005 9:27:10 PM # Q
One thing about Gekko: you can always count on him for an up-to-the-minute report of what's floating in the toilet bowl. I guess he share what he knows.

And that's what's great about PIC, isn't it? Thanks for chipping in your little contribution there, big guy.

RE: Moot
Gekko @ 10/26/2005 11:44:24 PM # Q

beersie - we are taking up a collection to get your soft pasty white azz out to the Bunny Ranch for your first time.

Pledge drive to help Beersy out of a tragic situation...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/27/2005 12:17:54 AM # Q
beersie - we are taking up a collection to get your soft pasty white azz out to the Bunny Ranch for your first time.

I'll pledge $1, but I doubt the plan to deflower Beersy will work. I hear Bunny Ranch workers have the right to refuse a "date" if said individual is simply too hideous.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
medevilenemy @ 10/27/2005 8:06:10 AM # Q
quickly everyone, let's throw gekko in the toilet! and while we're at it, remind everyone that palm hardly equals "remnaints" floating around... and this analogy is starting to make me sick...

RE: Moot
cervezas @ 10/27/2005 9:13:14 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:
beersie - we are taking up a collection to get your soft pasty white azz...

That was a quick change of subject. I see TVoR's fascination with my azz is starting to get to you now, too, Gekko. Alas, the line just keeps getting longer but I'm afraid the tickets were sold out years ago.

Seriously though, Gekko, it's time to admit you just don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.


RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/27/2005 1:55:20 PM # Q
Another day, another pointless round of gratuitous trolling by the usual suspects. If only the criticisms were new, intelligent, or remotely on topic.

Gekko / TVOR / Surur: So predictable. So excruciatingly boring.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that PalmSource/Palm OS has problems, that the've made mistakes (like every company ever in the history of the world), and that Palm OS is in a struggle for it's life. But why can't you say something that actually adds to the discussion? Oh right - you are all here to troll. Nothing more.

RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/27/2005 2:26:48 PM # Q
...oh and TVOR: that long winded signature is just embarassing. Uncomfortable to watch somebody flaunt their self-delusion like that. When you go to the trouble to add / update a sig like that, what goes through your mind? I can only guess it's something like: "wow - wait til people read this! then they will understand the all knowing power of my highly analytical mind! And people will read it too!! And once I point out the TRUE CONSPIRACY of Palm - all will look to me in awe of my intellectual prowess!!!"

It's just sad.

RE: Moot
sr4 @ 10/27/2005 2:36:11 PM # Q

rsc1000 - I still have to see your wonderful insight? Do you have anything interesting to say?

Surur

RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/27/2005 9:00:16 PM # Q
Insight? Here is some insight: you, Gekko, and the Voice of Rhetoric have seriously degraded the quality of discussion on PIC. Surur, weren't you banned little Troll?

RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/27/2005 9:00:16 PM # Q
Insight? Here is some insight: you, Gekko, and the Voice of Rhetoric have seriously degraded the quality of discussion on PIC. Surur, weren't you banned little Troll?

ATTN: To all the cowards who attack me at Palminfocenter
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/27/2005 11:55:31 PM # Q
I find it interesting that the ones who seem to complain the loudest about the "quality" of discussion here at Palminfocenter tend to have never actually contributed anything even remotely useful here themselves.

If you have something interesting or thoughtful to say, please say it and stimulate discussion at this DISCUSSION SITE. If you only want to criticize those of us who post because you disagree with our opinions then you are are an entity even more annoying than the worst troll. You are a useless, parasitic whiner.

People like David Beers, Surur, Timothy Rapson, hkklife, Marty Fouts, LiveFaith, Jeff Kirvin, Mike Cane, David Schlesinger, Adama Brown, etc and myself all have widely (and wildly) disparate opinions about most matters related to the PalmOS platform but at least we take the time to post these opinions and back up those opinions with FACTS if possible. Each of the above posters has made interesting (and often controversial) contributions to Palminfocenter over the years, fostering a highly thought-provoking level of discussion simply not found on ANY other Palm site. People like the intrepid rsc1000, on the other hand contribute NOTHING. NOTHING. In fact, if it was up to people like rsc1000, Palminfocenter's news discussions would be either nonexistent (like Brighthand) or full of useless fawning by teenaged sycophants (like 1stsource.com). If you want a "better" level of discussion, why don't YOU create it rather than wasting bandwidth biotching about people you lack the intelligence to debate with? I'm being dead serious here: either CONTRIBUTE to the discussion or S T F U. Your decision.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 12:33:20 AM # Q
Hear, hear. Well said, GRITTILY true and to the point as always, Voice.

I just left the sewing circle over at Brighthand after a final effort to see if there's ANYONE there with the technical know-how to help me out with my "little" Bluetooth issue on the TX. I just got the usual useless requests to:

1. Stop whining 2. Go to WinMob 3. Switch to a GSM carrier 4. Use an older Palm with "working" BT 5. Settle down

The online POS handheld community (all of the sites) is really turning into a bunch of Pollyannas unable to make a critical assertion about anything or try to take matters into their hands for ANY reason. Between being in Palm's pocket, acting like a bunch of juveniles, and only caring about posting VGA pictures of cats, nearly every site outside of PIC has been reduced to mindless chatter & clatter. It's just unfortunate that the real egghead/techie types don't frequent PIC as much as some of the other sites (Brighthand? Slashot etc) so getting the answers to nitty-gritty problems is made considerably more difficult.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Moot
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 1:09:00 AM # Q
a final effort to see if there's ANYONE there with the technical know-how to help me out with my "little" Bluetooth issue on the TX.

Try asking Christopher Price "hatoncat" at http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com/

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 3:25:13 AM # Q
Thanks, Voice! I'll do it.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Moot
medevilenemy @ 10/28/2005 8:01:24 AM # Q
Ah, voice, it is that you are sorely mistaken. Most of us have provided our opinions on things, sometimes rooted in established fact, usually in speculation. Any of these contributions can be considered worthy. It is because of people like you; voice, surur, gekko, hkklife, etc; that the PIC discussion forums are among the least respected in the palm/pda community. You guys give this place such an angry environment. You people, so bereft of respect for others as you are, are a menace, YOU are the parasites.

Do not take so much credit for yourself, it's unbecoming of any self-respecting human being. I ask you now, politely if I may, to end your pointless crusades against all of us whose opinions differ from your own, all of us who dare share a dissenting opinion.

Let's all try to use the forums for [B]Discussion[/B] not argument.

RE: Moot
Simony @ 10/28/2005 9:15:58 AM # Q
> I'm being dead serious here: either CONTRIBUTE to the discussion or S T F U. Your decision.

Your 'contributions' are as hilarious as ever. Bozo.

RE: Moot
cervezas @ 10/28/2005 9:18:52 AM # Q
medevilenemy wrote:
I ask you now, politely if I may, to end your pointless crusades against all of us whose opinions differ from your own

It's not going to work. The only thing TVoR understands is being slapped around.

You really need to understand that this is the Internet. It's all about pointless crusades and differing opinions.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Moot
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 10:34:27 AM # Q
I only (sadly) resort to name-calling & general ugliness when I post THOROUGH findings/problems/concerns with Palm's products and, instead of genuine advice from those more technical than myself, I receive one or more of the following:

1. Stop whining/get over it
2. You're on the M$ payroll
3. Change to PPC/WinMob
4. Buy a Treo
5. You can live without _________ (insert missing feature here)
6. Change cell providers

It happened before with trying to rally support to get a REAL version of Graffiti 1 back onto Palm devices. It happened again when I was among the first to disclose HOW shoddy the LifeDrive's memory architecture is and how certain random units fare worse than others. Now It's happening again as I expose Palm's intentional Bluetooth crippling in order to try and sell more Treos to North American customers.

Look, I'm as big of a fan of the Palm OS (in ANY flavor) as anyone. I still admire Palm's/PalmSource's PIM apps and ease of use. Even the (overall) hardware as of late has been somewhat competitive. 9 years with a platform that's always been behind the curve will make you used to compromises. But I cannot stand all of the BUGS & QUIRKS--whether intentional or not, it's gotta stop!

Every new Palm since the T3 has come with some set of dealbreakers that shouldn't exist. No, I don't expect 2 week battery life, voice recognition, built-in GPS and an OLED screen for $300. But for my $300 I expect a handheld that works with the same cellphones that my PREVIOUS Palms worked with. And a choice of character recognition formats would be lovely as well (G1 vs. G2 vs. G3?) since some us still prefer a stylus for short memos than a micro keyboard.

I've seen a noticable decrease in the quality of the PIC forums. Everyone posting there is either an apologist or a n00b. However, that's still preferable to the "country club" atmosphere over at Brighthand & 1src. I'm constantly insulted over at Brighthand when I give ANYTHING LESS than a glowing report on every aspect Palm's latest offerings. If you want to call wanting Palm to be accountable for problems THEY create with THEIR own hanhelds parasitic behavior then I'll gladly change my nickname to "pinwormlife"

I just want a SOLID Palm handheld that offers reliable BT, reliable wi-fi, 320*480, NO keyboard, decent battery life, a stable OS and NO cellular model or monthly data service plans attached to it. Is that too much to ask? A voice recorder and Graffiti 1 would be icing on the cake. TX comes pretty close to what I mention above? Yes, and that's why I am so aggravated at Palm's latest bungles.

P.S. I seldom see any of you "new guys" in the forums, by the weay. PIC's front page dialogue is considerably grittier than what goes on in the forums. If you'd take the time to look you'd see plenty of advice and polite assistance given out by me to less experienced users over the years. Ironically, the paradigms of polite decency and courtesy (potter, klw, Captain Hair) post almost EXCLUSIVELY in the forums and stay out of the front page fray. Something to think about...

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/28/2005 10:40:25 AM # Q
>>People like David Beers, Surur, Timothy Rapson, hkklife, Marty Fouts, LiveFaith, Jeff Kirvin, Mike Cane, David Schlesinger, Adama Brown, etc and myself all have widely (and wildly) disparate opinions about most matters related to the PalmOS platform but at least we take the time to post these opinions and back up those opinions with FACTS if possible.

Nice tactic! troll hides behind the credibility of REAL contributors (well, most of those you listed are)- nice attempt to cloak yourself there. Oh yes - PIC readers were lost before the TVOR began 'contributing'. ALL your posts are serious, non-rhetoric - you certainly NEVER resort to cheap insults and off-topic, self-agrandizing banter now, do you TVOR?

>>I'm being dead serious here: either CONTRIBUTE to the discussion or S T F U. Your decision.

Oh? are you being dead serious? WTF does that mean? Oh look out! TVOR is dead serious! Are you going to summon your mighty forces?

You don't contribute Jack. You polute the boards by going off-topic to attack other people, dis-respectfully posting anywhere and everywhere without regards to anybody or any edicate.

Don't like my string of posts here? Well too bad - you certainly have had no respect for anybody here. BTW: since u find time to post 100 times a day, i assume you - do what exactly? work part time a fast-food restaurant? That is some qualification for your conspiracy minded analysis now isn't it?


RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/28/2005 11:24:52 AM # Q
hkklife,
Criticism and outrage about legimate matters - such as palm messing up yet another model with something stupis - are completely fair game.

I am talking about completely gratuitous character attacks that have nothing ot do with aparticular topic. Perfect example is this gem for a few days ago by TVOR:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8159#114111

...umm. TVOR: Nobody cares about what Kirvin may or may not have said in a ANOTHER thread in ANOTHER site. It is off topic.

or how about the Gekko comment that started this thread? Let's repeat it shall we:

>>You'll never be able to buy one.

>>The toilet's been flushed and PalmOS is still circling the bowl, "remnants" remain... but not for long.

>>Bye Bye Apologists.

Thanks for the 'contributions' TVOR and Gekko.


RE: Moot
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 5:29:47 PM # Q
As usual, the apologists have NOTHING useful to say. Thanks for sharing.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
rsc1000 @ 10/28/2005 6:19:19 PM # Q
>>As usual, the apologists have NOTHING useful to say. Thanks for sharing.

No thanks you for your 'contributions'.

RE: Moot
Simony @ 10/28/2005 7:12:17 PM # Q
> As usual, the apologists have NOTHING useful to say. Thanks for sharing.

This is brilliant. Not even John Cleese can produce humour like this. Bozo.

RE: Moot
Dr Opinion @ 10/28/2005 8:48:48 PM # Q
> "...I just left the sewing circle over at Brighthand after a final effort to see if there's ANYONE there with the technical know-how to help me..."

You hang around here, bitching about how rubbish everything is, complaining about Palm, and whining on about your bizarre fantasies about "what is going to happen", (which never, of course, actually happens, just like that wad, Voice-of-Dumbness).

Now that would be pathetic enough. Sure. But then every now and then you start to grovel at hackers, begging them to make changes to your software. Why not just buy a book and learn? Do it yourself? Stop whining and bitching that hackers won't waste their (precious) time fixing your stupid problem!

You want to know the two best solution to [random problem x] that you encounter becuase of your personal preferences, but that you cannot fix because of your lack of knowledge and skill?

(1) Change your preferences
(2) Develop knowledge or skill

Until then: ****, you total wad.

Really. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Moot
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 9:16:36 PM # Q
Can someone--Ryan, anyone--ban him please?

That sort of attack is simply uncalled for. Being an apologist is one thing. Attacking a long-standing & contributing PIC member for simply pointing out a grievous error/wrongdoing on Palm's part is simply childish and FAR worse behavior than ANY of the other posters Dr. O likes to gripe about. I don't recall seeing this hoopla when the Treo BT & wi-fi or G1 hacking was done. Why is the broken Bluetooth for CDMA on the TX such a big deal to those who are UNAFFECTED by it?

Are you a contractor Dr. O? Are you an actual MD? Are you able to synthesize various household chemicals in your kitchen? Do you drive around in a hand-built, self-designed car? No, I didn't think so. There's a time and a place for every skill and profession. Please let us know the next time you have to call the HVAC repairman so we can chide you for not going to vocational school and learning that valuable skill on your own.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Ryan, it appears that Jeff Kirvin has gone off the deep end.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 10:11:34 PM # Q
> "...I just left the sewing circle over at Brighthand after a final effort to see if there's ANYONE there with the technical know-how to help me..."

You hang around here, bitching about how rubbish everything is, complaining about Palm, and whining on about your bizarre fantasies about "what is going to happen", (which never, of course, actually happens, just like that wad, Voice-of-Dumbness).

Now that would be pathetic enough. Sure. But then every now and then you start to grovel at hackers, begging them to make changes to your software. Why not just buy a book and learn? Do it yourself? Stop whining and bitching that hackers won't waste their (precious) time fixing your stupid problem!

You want to know the two best solution to [random problem x] that you encounter becuase of your personal preferences, but that you cannot fix because of your lack of knowledge and skill?

(1) Change your preferences
(2) Develop knowledge or skill

Until then: ****, you total wad.

Really. :)

Ryan, over the past few weeks Dr Opinion/Jeff Kirvin has now proved himself to be more absurd than any PPC troll (including Ska). His (weak) attempts to chide those who find fault with Palm/PalmOS have backfired and only make Palm supporters look bad by association.


Is Kirvin OK? Has he lost control because he's out of work again? He doesn't appear to be quite right in the head.

Jeff: Think about what you're doing. You may be frustrated, but was it worth destroying your reputation just for a few fleeting moments of pleasure insulting people via your "Dr Opinion" pseudonym? I hope you get things sorted out soon.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Small, insecure, and irrational? :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/29/2005 8:06:01 PM # Q
> "...o you drive around in a hand-built, self-designed car?..."

No, but I don't hang around with mechanics, bitching constantly about how stupid cars are, how much I hate cars, how car manufacturers are idiots, and complain that car makers won't make a special pink car with five wheels, two sunroofs, and a really huge gearstick because those are "critical features" that "every car should have". Nor do I then whine to said mechanics asking them to make these changes to my existing car for free. Duh. :)

> "...Jeff: [...blah...] your "Dr Opinion" pseudonym?..."

Voice-of-Dumbness, I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jeff actually comes here, whoever he is. Thus your constant and irrational tirades about him are probably falling on deaf ears. I'm sure he'd be wryly amused by your error, however. I sure am! :)

It reminds me of that time when you thought you knew where the market was going, bet big on Palm, and lost all that money. That must have *hurt*. Some guys might take that really personally, right? A guy might make some big crazy signature about how bad Palm was to him, then hang around on Palm forums for years, bitching about Palm -- determined to *single-handedly* punish the company! :)

At least, a rather small, insecure, irrational guy might do that. Hmmm. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Next on Fox: When Palm Apologists go bad
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 11:47:25 AM # Q
That was a quick change of subject. I see TVoR's fascination with my azz is starting to get to you now, too, Gekko. Alas, the line just keeps getting longer but I'm afraid the tickets were sold out years ago.

So you're saying you sold tickets for people to have a piece of your a$$? Wow. Thanks for sharing, Beersy. That's what might be considered TMI.

It's not going to work. The only thing TVoR understands is being slapped around.

Pardon me? Has the repeated biotchslapping you've endured made you confused? Beersy, I should email you some photos of one of your PalmSource idols in (BDSM) action.

i assume you - do what exactly? work part time a fast-food restaurant? That is some qualification for your conspiracy minded analysis now isn't it?

Is there someting wrong with working "part time a fast-food restaurant"? I have a lot more respect for people that put in an honest day's work doing ANYTHING than I do for a piece of **** (EDITED) like you.


Voice-of-Dumbness, I hate to break it to you, but I don't think Jeff actually comes here, whoever he is. Thus your constant and irrational tirades about him are probably falling on deaf ears. I'm sure he'd be wryly amused by your error, however. I sure am! :)

Kirvin, you slipped up in trying to hide who you are. I'd suggest you talk to Ryan. By the way, do you know what a "cookie" is?

It reminds me of that time when you thought you knew where the market was going, bet big on Palm, and lost all that money. That must have *hurt*. Some guys might take that really personally, right? A guy might make some big crazy signature about how bad Palm was to him, then hang around on Palm forums for years, bitching about Palm -- determined to *single-handedly* punish the company! :)

Sorry Kirvin, but that never happened. Something a lttle birdie told me about PalmSource COULD have been quite useful if I was willing to ignore what happened to Martha Stewart, though...

At least, a rather small, insecure, irrational guy might do that. Hmmm. :)

Strike three, Kirvin. [You actually got 4 strikes in a single SENTENCE. Well done]

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Voice-of-Dumbness is a whiney shill :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 12:22:16 PM # Q
> "...you slipped up in trying to hide who you are. I'd suggest you talk to Ryan. By the way, do you know what a "cookie" is?..."

Voice-of-Dumbness, there is no possible evidence, cookies-be-damned, that could prove I am some random guy from another site who's ass you have fixation about. In the mean time I strongly suggest you stop lying: Ryan has in no way suggested that I am some guy called Jeff, and for good reason: I'm not that guy, so Ryan could not possibly have any information to the contrary. :)

Perhaps Ryan would care to comment on the matter? Note that Voice-of-Dumbness really has implied that he's got information from Ryan here!!!

> "...you thought you knew where the market was going, bet big on Palm, and lost all that money. That must have *hurt*. Some guys might take that really personally, right? A guy might make some big crazy signature about how bad Palm was to him, then hang around on Palm forums for years, bitching about Palm..."

> "...[Wahhh!] that never happened [how did you find out, wahh, wahh!]..."

Hmmm. But we know better, Voice-of-Dumbness, don't we? :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Jeff Kirvin just got eXp10It3D
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 1:20:18 PM # Q
there is no possible evidence, cookies-be-damned, that could prove I am some random guy from another site who's ass you have fixation about.

What's the matter Jeff? Did you REALLY think you could create the Dr Opinion pseudonym and post here anonymously? Do you know anything about how computers, browsers and servers work?

In the mean time I strongly suggest you stop lying: Ryan has in no way suggested that I am some guy called Jeff, and for good reason: I'm not that guy, so Ryan could not possibly have any information to the contrary. :)

Ryan did not post that you are "some guy called Jeff". I did. ["some guy called Jeff"??? That's weak, Kirvin. Really weak. Maybe you should have also misspelled "Jeff"?] Anyone with r007 sK1LLz could post some more information to show you to be the pathetic creep you are, Jeff. For starters, why don't you give Ryan permission to post EXACTLY where the posts of both Jeff Kirvin and Dr Opinion originate?

Perhaps Ryan would care to comment on the matter? Note that Voice-of-Dumbness really has implied that he's got information from Ryan here!!!

You got p0wn3D, Kirvin. Bend over and take it like a man. By the way, I never said Ryan told me who you are. But if you go back and read your posts, you'll probably realize where you first slipped up. Kirvin, we're sick of seeing twits like you trying to be clever with "anonymous" personas. Marty Fouts got p0wn3D. David Schlesinger got p0wn3D. RhinoSteve got p0wn3D. You got p0wn3D. Here's some friendly advice, Jeff: cut your losses and apologize before it's too late.

TVoR


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
Simony @ 10/30/2005 3:46:24 PM # Q
> Marty Fouts got p0wn3D. David Schlesinger got p0wn3D. RhinoSteve got p0wn3D. You got p0wn3D. Here's some friendly advice, Jeff: cut your losses and apologize before it's too late.

I remember when our resident comedian threw a little tantrum and declared that she would never to post here again. Promises, promises ...

RE: Moot
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 4:28:28 PM # Q
Let's recall exacly what voice-of-dumbness said:

> "...you slipped up in trying to hide who you are. I'd suggest you talk to Ryan. By the way, do you know what a "cookie" is?..."

Now, I think that's pretty clear. You are suggesting that Ryan has passed some information to you about my identity obtained from cookies. Don't squirm around and deny it: you implied that you had information obtained from Ryan. And all three of us know that's a lie. I would suggest you stick to ranting about companies on who's stock you've taken a real beating. Leave the creative thinking to people a little sharper than yourself. :)

Now, let's get ready for a major about face. OK! Go:

> "...But if you go back and read your posts, you'll probably realize where you first slipped up..."

Ahh. I see. So it's not cookies now, there's some mystery unnamable content in my messages that made you think I was some random guy called Jeff. Not quite cookies, is it? So you really were lying about the cookies. I'm glad we were able to get to the bottom of it. :)

> "...we're sick of seeing twits like you trying to be clever with "anonymous" personas..."

Actually, no. We're sick of professional microsoft shills, clueluss idiots who demand ridiculous minority features, and loser-day-traders-who-got-spanked-on-palm-stock. We're sick of these people whining about Palm, whining about Palm OS, whining becuse wince is going down the tubes and Palm is just better. Grow the FU. :)

By the way, you've just been spanked. HTH. HAND. :)



------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

And with a puff of smoke...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 4:32:39 PM # Q
I remember when our resident comedian threw a little tantrum and declared that she would never to post here again. Promises, promises ...

Au revoir.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I think we made him go away. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 4:40:16 PM # Q
Now that would be a wonderful thing. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
On second thought...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 4:41:00 PM # Q
Let's recall exacly what voice-of-dumbness said:

> "...you slipped up in trying to hide who you are. I'd suggest you talk to Ryan. By the way, do you know what a "cookie" is?..."

Now, I think that's pretty clear. You are suggesting that Ryan has passed some information to you about my identity obtained from cookies. Don't squirm around and deny it: you implied that you had information obtained from Ryan. And all three of us know that's a lie. I would suggest you stick to ranting about companies on who's stock you've taken a real beating. Leave the creative thinking to people a little sharper than yourself. :)

Now, let's get ready for a major about face. OK! Go:

Take a deep breath, Kirvin. Ryan didn't rat you out. YOU did. Ryan CAN tell who you are though. I'd suggested you contact him to discuss this, as you appear to be under the delusion that you're posting to Palminfocenter anonymously. Again, I'd strongly suggest you contact him if you don't believe me. Some really BAD people apparently decided to p0wN you. Deal with it.

> "...But if you go back and read your posts, you'll probably realize where you first slipped up..."

Ahh. I see. So it's not cookies now, there's some mystery unnamable content in my messages that made you think I was some random guy called Jeff. Not quite cookies, is it? So you really were lying about the cookies. I'm glad we were able to get to the bottom of it. :)

Jeff, you tried to be too clever for your own good. You simply lack the writing skills to pull it off. You did manage to fool Gekko, though. Congratulations.

> "...we're sick of seeing twits like you trying to be clever with "anonymous" personas..."

Actually, no. We're sick of professional microsoft shills, clueluss idiots who demand ridiculous minority features, and loser-day-traders-who-got-spanked-on-palm-stock. We're sick of these people whining about Palm, whining about Palm OS, whining becuse wince is going down the tubes and Palm is just better. Grow the FU. :)

In case you didn't notice, Kirvin, besides Surur most of the Palm/PalmSource critics here are actually longtime PalmOS users that have simply grown frustrated with Palm/PalmSource's ineptitude. Your efforts to marginalize these individuals by calling them "professional microsoft shills, clueluss idiots who demand ridiculous minority features, and loser-day-traders-who-got-spanked-on-palm-stock" rings false. No matter how many times you say it. Sadly, you seem incapable of grasping the fact that your posts here are doing more damage to Palm than any Windows Mobile troll could ever hope to accomplish. (Or was this your goal all along? Hmmmm...)

By the way, you've just been spanked. HTH. HAND. :)

The only one getting spanked is you, Kirvin. Unfortunately, you lack the intelligence to realize this.


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

On second thought
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 5:20:18 PM # Q
Let's recall exacly what voice-of-dumbness said:

> "...you slipped up in trying to hide who you are. I'd suggest you talk to Ryan. By the way, do you know what a "cookie" is?..."

Now, I think that's pretty clear. You are suggesting that Ryan has passed some information to you about my identity obtained from cookies. Don't squirm around and deny it: you implied that you had information obtained from Ryan. And all three of us know that's a lie. I would suggest you stick to ranting about companies on who's stock you've taken a real beating. Leave the creative thinking to people a little sharper than yourself. :)

Now, let's get ready for a major about face. OK! Go:

Take a deep breath, Kirvin. Ryan didn't rat you out. YOU did. Ryan CAN tell who you are though. I'd suggested you contact him to discuss this, as you appear to be under the delusion that you're posting to Palminfocenter anonymously. Again, I'd strongly suggest you contact him if you don't believe me. Some really BAD people apparently decided to p0wN you. Deal with it.

> "...But if you go back and read your posts, you'll probably realize where you first slipped up..."

Ahh. I see. So it's not cookies now, there's some mystery unnamable content in my messages that made you think I was some random guy called Jeff. Not quite cookies, is it? So you really were lying about the cookies. I'm glad we were able to get to the bottom of it. :)

Jeff, you tried to be too clever for your own good. You simply lack the writing skills to pull it off. You did manage to fool Gekko, though. Congratulations.

> "...we're sick of seeing twits like you trying to be clever with "anonymous" personas..."

Actually, no. We're sick of professional microsoft shills, clueluss idiots who demand ridiculous minority features, and loser-day-traders-who-got-spanked-on-palm-stock. We're sick of these people whining about Palm, whining about Palm OS, whining becuse wince is going down the tubes and Palm is just better. Grow the FU. :)

In case you didn't notice, Kirvin, besides Surur most of the Palm/PalmSource critics here are actually longtime PalmOS users that have simply grown frustrated with Palm/PalmSource's ineptitude. Your efforts to marginalize these individuals by calling them "professional microsoft shills, clueluss idiots who demand ridiculous minority features, and loser-day-traders-who-got-spanked-on-palm-stock" rings false. No matter how many times you say it. Sadly, you seem incapable of grasping the fact that your posts here are doing more damage to Palm than any Windows Mobile troll could ever hope to accomplish. (Or was this your goal all along? Hmmmm...)

By the way, you've just been spanked. HTH. HAND. :)

The only one getting spanked is you, Kirvin. Unfortunately, you lack the intelligence to realize this.


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Guess again, Kirvin.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 5:26:54 PM # Q
I think we made him go away. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 4:40:16 PM #

Now that would be a wonderful thing. :)

You didn't make anyone go away, Kirvin. I'm right here and will be willing to DESTROY any more lies you post to Palminfocenter.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 5:35:14 PM # Q
Thank goodness! I'd hate to think you were taking all this playful banter personally. :)



------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Moot
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 5:41:20 PM # Q
> "...you appear to be under the delusion that you're posting to Palminfocenter anonymously..."

I'm under no such delusion: I'm using unencrypted connections at home and occasionally from "where I go during the day". Ryan can figure out my ISP and occupation from my IP, and may even see something interesting in POST data REMOTE_IDENT. With effort he could figure if I'm using the same machine as this wonderful Jeff person who's got you so riled up, assuming this random Jeff guy actually posted here and Ryan knew his login. Beyond that, it's the wild, wild, web, my friend. :)

> "...Some really BAD people apparently decided to p0wN you..."

Oooh. That scares me. Actually, it doesn't, because by "bad" you mean, "people who have a modicum of technical skills", and, well, I'm one of those people. Grow up. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Voice-of-Dumbness gets drunk and posts rubbish....
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 6:11:57 PM # Q
Did you really just post that? :)

Calm down, shut off the PC, and take a break. Watch some TV or something. Try not to think about how well the Palm economy is doing, and how wince will only be around for a little while longer. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Moot
Strider_mt2k @ 10/30/2005 6:40:50 PM # Q
uh, unhealthy obsession anyone?

RE: Moot
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 6:41:38 PM # Q
Yeah, like totally. :)

My think he's implying that he's trying to trick CompUSA into thinking that I'm one of their employees. Oooh. Scary. Maybe they'll fire me. Oh yeah, but I don't work for them, so I really don't give a flying monkey. :)

I don't really care about his Jeff Kirving fixation (although I'm wryly amused by his error), but I really wish he'd stop making posts with references to prison sex. That's just disturbing. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Moot
twrock @ 10/30/2005 7:39:41 PM # Q
Umm, TVOR, this particular melt-down appears fairly extreme. You might want to take Dr. O's advice and take a little time off from this board. You are starting to look a little out of control there.
(If you don't swallow the hook so deeply, it doesn't hurt so bad when they start to reel you in.)

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
I really think he's lost it. Oh dear. :)
Dr Opinion @ 10/30/2005 10:03:40 PM # Q
Oh! So you want to exchange insults in braille, eh? :)

Well, why don't you just .::..::. your .::..:, and .:.: ..::.. while you're at it. And by the way, your mother said you were a total ::.:: the other day while she was :..::..: my ::..::.:.

So there. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Moot
Admin @ 10/30/2005 10:32:30 PM # Q
Thats enough for this thread, please stop the insults and relax.

For the record, Dr Opinion is not Kirvin, I have checked. Let's end this.

Kirvin/Dr Opinion
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 11:36:02 PM # Q
Thats enough for this thread, please stop the insults and relax.

For the record, Dr Opinion is not Kirvin, I have checked. Let's end this.

Ummm... Suuure Ryan.
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)
:)

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Buy a vowel, Bubba
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/30/2005 11:38:59 PM # Q
Umm, TVOR, this particular melt-down appears fairly extreme.

Don't be so gullible.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Moot
twrock @ 10/31/2005 2:28:20 AM # Q
Ummm... Suuure Ryan.

Sheesh TVOR. You asked the man to check. He checked. He told you that you were wrong. What is it with you? Are you insisting that Ryan join you in your delusional thinking? Get over it already!


I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

Reply to this comment

Looks nice, but why so thick?

gfunkmagic @ 10/26/2005 11:22:26 PM # Q
Does the 3MP cam require it to be so thick? I wonder what the dimensions are exactly for this?

Also, you need to have a lot of internal storage for 3MP images!! I wonder what amount, if any, of nand storage this device might have?

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: Looks nice, but why so thick?
hotpaw4 @ 10/28/2005 2:18:44 AM # Q
more pixels -> smaller pixels -> smaller focus dot required else the smaller pixels will be all blurred and useless -> laws of physics (defraction, etc.) require a wider lens for smaller focus spots -> wider lenses require greater focal length for same f-stop -> greater focal lengths implies a thicker body (or mirrors, which then again can degrade the quality).

RE: Looks nice, but why so thick?
twizza @ 10/31/2005 11:57:39 AM # Q
With hope there is more storage here than in the QDA-700, 20MB. Also, there was next to no RAM space (20MB), so I would hope there is more here as well. The QDA wasnt really thick, press pics made it look bigger than it was. So I would guess the same is here.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com
Reply to this comment

No external antenna!

palmdoc88 @ 10/27/2005 12:13:05 AM # Q
That's the cue for Europe and Asia, Palm. Pls pls lose the ulgy antenna for the Treo!


T3 & T5 user

Reply to this comment

Bluetooh 2.0

legodude522 @ 10/27/2005 6:36:43 PM # Q
Dude! This freaking thing has Bluetooth 2.0!

Palm m125 December 25, 2003 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to present.
Reply to this comment

HTC Magician clone

Foo Fighter @ 10/27/2005 9:47:05 PM # Q
A sleek looking phone obviously influenced by HTC's Magician platform. The problem with this phone, like every other cellular device based on PalmOS developed outside Palm inc., is that it will never reach the North American market. I KNOW I'm not alone when I say that I've had my fill of watching products like this and the Qool phone (which I really like based on pics), knowing that I as a consumer will NEVER be able to purchase.

By the way....Motorola, if you're listening, here is what I want for Christmas; a Q phone running PalmOS (Cobalt), or WinMob (PPC Phone). I can't take Garnet anymore because I value actually being able to USE my PDA/phone for something other than watching it spontaneously reset itself.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

Moto and Palm OS: the plot thickens
cervezas @ 10/27/2005 11:07:32 PM # Q
Don't count on Motorola doing anything with Cobalt. I've got $100 that says they'll be licensing Palm OS for Linux, though.

SamH, if you're reading this you may be interested in this little window into how Moto's attempt to roll their own Linux platform has been going:

http://ganesha.gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/linux/a780/

Welte does not work for Motorola. He's just hacking their recent Linux phones with the idea of eventually creating a totally free (Open Source) software platform to replace the mess that Motorola has created.

It sounds like Moto's engineers designed the system for the A780 Linux phone as if they were developing for a full-blown server or workstation. They filled the ROM up with the same big-a$$ glibc library and GNU utilities that you'd find in an enterprise Linux distro instead of the compact variants that are intended for resource-constrained embedded systems. The address book and phone applications sound seriously bloated at 4.5 and 6.6MB respectively, thanks in part to the use of QTopia as the GUI toolkit. It runs an ancient version of zlib that has security vulnerabilities that were fixed over 3 years ago. And for all this it's crippled so you can't run native applications on it! Only crappy J2ME midlets! They needed 48MB of physical RAM for a device that is really nothing but a feature phone.

It's exactly as I said: sure rolling your own Linux platform gives you the freedom to customize as much as you please, but it also gives you the freedom to hoist yourself by your own petard. Motorola obviously didn't have time to do this right so they've just now teamed up with PalmSource, Wind River and others at OSDL to try to come up with a standard distro and services for Linux phones. Moto is the only hardware vendor involved in that initiative. I'd be *very* surprised if this didn't result in them approaching ACCESS about a license when Palm OS for Linux is ready.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Is backwards compatibility worth the price?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 12:41:01 AM # Q
I'd be *very* surprised if this didn't result in them approaching ACCESS about a license when Palm OS for Linux is ready.

When PalmLinux is "ready"??? Don't make me laugh. I'd suggest you try talking to someone at PalmSource about that, Beersy. It's looking like we're about to see Cobalt/Copeland/BeOS Part II. Unfortunately, no one explained the KISS principle to PalmSource last year and the pragmatic hired guns are drowning in a sea of quicksand.

Windows Mobile, Symbian and Linux aren't saddled with the burden of trying to create a FrankenOS within months from scavenged bits and pieces of code. Palm/PalmSource would have been better off just breaking backwards compatibility for PalmOS 6 (or now PalmOS 7) and creating a "Clean Page OS" with a StyleTap-like emulator thrown in for those wishing to cling to treasured legacy apps. Like a festering, gangrenous limb, the desire to preserve backwards compatibility might very well result in the death of the new OS. Amputation would have been a wiser decision.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Semi-OT: Brighand has become a WORTHLESS site. All hail PIC!
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 1:27:46 AM # Q
Just read the following snippets below to see the useless dialogue going over @ Brighthand. Are they ALL angling to land jobs with Palm? Or are all of their members already in Palm's pocket?

Original thread URL:
http://tinyurl.com/do2aw

Originally posted by hkklife
And if you are a CDMA Bluetooth user (Sprint, Verizon) AVOID this worthless piece of trash from Palm. Speak with your dollars and they'll either go under and save us all of this grief in the future or they'll start taking their remaining loyal customers for granted!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I believe that you shouldn't be complaining Since the only reason most people use BT is to use the Internet with their cell phones... With Wi-fi you can do that, plus you can still wireless hotsync... Unless you do other things with the TX BT that we wouldn't want to hear about

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Re: Is backwards compatibility worth the price?
cervezas @ 10/28/2005 8:19:25 AM # Q
TVoR wrote:
It's looking like we're about to see...
might very well result...

Coming from you that's an awful lot of hedging, TVoR. Having trouble getting a clear signal these days through the SEC channel-jamming? Must be hard since your oracular powers were never that good to begin with.

Hear's a bit of free advice: stick to stuff you know something about.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

TRY to do better, Beersy.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 5:40:10 PM # Q
That was weak, Beersy. Even for you.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: HTC Magician clone
Dr Opinion @ 10/28/2005 8:42:32 PM # Q
> "...Palm/PalmSource would have been better off just breaking backwards compatibility for PalmOS 6 (or now PalmOS 7) and creating a "Clean Page OS"..."

You really are clueless. The entire value of the Palm OS is the backwards compatability, huge application base, huge developer base, and massive installed base. Idiot. :)

You want to see what happens to a mobile platform when backwards compatability is broken? Just look at wince. There's no "installed base" to speak of because each major revision broke compatability. And where has this left them? Few developers, a dwindling licensee base, a dying platform. Want to see the nail in the coffin? When XP Mobile is released some time in the next 18 months or so, it will once again break backwards compatability with wince devices. Look carefully at what happens to all the burned and abused wince developers. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Jeff Kirvin/Dr Opinion:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/28/2005 10:26:58 PM # Q
> "...Palm/PalmSource would have been better off just breaking backwards compatibility for PalmOS 6 (or now PalmOS 7) and creating a "Clean Page OS"..."

You really are clueless. The entire value of the Palm OS is the backwards compatability, huge application base, huge developer base, and massive installed base. Idiot. :)

You want to see what happens to a mobile platform when backwards compatability is broken? Just look at wince. There's no "installed base" to speak of because each major revision broke compatability. And where has this left them? Few developers, a dwindling licensee base, a dying platform. Want to see the nail in the coffin? When XP Mobile is released some time in the next 18 months or so, it will once again break backwards compatability with wince devices. Look carefully at what happens to all the burned and abused wince developers. :)


Jeff, sometimes you get to a point where you just have to make the hard decision to cut your losses and make a fresh start. Sometimes the "baggage" being carried from the comfortable status quo will end up gradually smothering you if you don't let it go.

I hope you understand what I'm talking about, Jeff. A fresh start can give you the opportunity to avoid making all the mistakes you've made over the years. Yes, cutting ties to the past can be a painful process. Yes it can be scary. But sometimes it's the ONLY way to go.

Good luck.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: HTC Magician clone
hkklife @ 10/28/2005 10:37:36 PM # Q
There has been a lot of mud slung over the past couple of years on the PIC front page but I think tonight's little......sermon from the top of the mountains of madness takes the cake.

It really might be time for Ryan to put his foot down and take some serious measures to clear out the deadwood and find some way to return PIC to normalcy.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: HTC Magician clone
Simony @ 10/29/2005 12:36:38 AM # Q
Hypocrite.

RE: HTC Magician clone
AdamaDBrown @ 10/29/2005 3:16:27 AM # Q
Don't count on Motorola doing anything with Cobalt.

You almost got it. Try this:

Don't count on Motorola doing anything.

Moto's activities in the smartphone space have consisted of stumbling from one failure to another looking for a golden goose. See MPx200, MPx220, MPx, A780, et al. I don't forsee them shaping up any time soon--the Q and the i930 are both also looking lackluster. So for them to be planning some big PalmLinux offensive is unrealistic.

RE: Moto and Palm OS: the plot thickens
Sam H @ 10/29/2005 5:33:01 AM # Q
SamH, if you're reading this you may be interested in this little window into how Moto's attempt to roll their own Linux platform has been going:

http://ganesha.gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/linux/a780/

Welte does not work for Motorola. He's just hacking their recent Linux phones with the idea of eventually creating a totally free (Open Source) software platform to replace the mess that Motorola has created.

Good luck to him. I think we're *many* years away from seeing a usable Free smartphone platform though.

It sounds like Moto's engineers designed the system for the A780 Linux phone as if they were developing for a full-blown server or workstation. They filled the ROM up with the same big-a$$ glibc library and GNU utilities that you'd find in an enterprise Linux distro instead of the compact variants that are intended for resource-constrained embedded systems. The address book and phone applications sound seriously bloated at 4.5 and 6.6MB respectively, thanks in part to the use of QTopia as the GUI toolkit. It runs an ancient version of zlib that has security vulnerabilities that were fixed over 3 years ago. And for all this it's crippled so you can't run native applications on it! Only crappy J2ME midlets! They needed 48MB of physical RAM for a device that is really nothing but a feature phone.

It's exactly as I said: sure rolling your own Linux platform gives you the freedom to customize as much as you please, but it also gives you the freedom to hoist yourself by your own petard.

1) If there are problems with MotoLinux, how will licensing PalmOS-for-Linux (which is distro agnostic) help?

2) If there are problems with Qt/Embedded (middleware licensed from another company), what makes you think Motorola won't switch to middleware development in-house instead of licensing it from yet another company (PalmSource)?

Incidentally, NEC/Panasonic's Linux phones (running, you guessed it, their own in-house platform) have just been picked up by NTT/DoCoMo (owner of ACCESS). Roll-your-own platforms seem to be doing OK.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5832443133.html

Motorola obviously didn't have time to do this right so they've just now teamed up with PalmSource, Wind River and others at OSDL to try to come up with a standard distro and services for Linux phones.

Moto haven't 'just' teamed up with PalmSource, Wind River etc. They've all been members of the Consumer Electronics Linux Forum, whose remit is very similar to OSDL's Mobile Linux Initiative, for years.

I'd be *very* surprised if this didn't result in them approaching ACCESS about a license when Palm OS for Linux is ready.

Boo! (Just preparing you.)

RE: HTC Magician clone
twrock @ 10/29/2005 11:57:41 AM # Q
There has been a lot of mud slung over the past couple of years on the PIC front page but I think tonight's little......sermon from the top of the mountains of madness takes the cake.

It really might be time for Ryan to put his foot down and take some serious measures to clear out the deadwood and find some way to return PIC to normalcy.

Can you clarify "normalcy" for me? What do you mean? For example, would it be "normal" to allow references to violent anal sex, or should that go as well? Should Ryan single out Dr. Opinion, or do you have a complete list of all of those that should be banned that we can look at to see if any of the rest of us agree? Do we only ban those that "attack" you and those with whom you agree, or should Ryan apply the standards even-handedly? Should there be different standards for apologists vs. critics?

If you can clarify a little more, I might be convinced to lend my support to your cause.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."

The list of posters that will be BANNED from Palminfocenter:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/29/2005 4:10:03 PM # Q
do you have a complete list of all of those that should be banned


Yes:

1) Dr Opinion

2) twrock

3) A couple others who will probably comment below this post. I will update the list later.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

List of posters that will be BANNED from Palminfocenter Pt 2
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/29/2005 4:16:35 PM # Q
If you can clarify a little more, I might be convinced to lend my support to your cause.

By the way, your "support" is not needed, since you're about to be banned anyway. Thanks for your generous offer to permit us the honor of trying to "convince" you to support this initiative, though.

3) An honorary position on the BANNED list has just been awarded to RhinoSteve. His award will be accepted by Dr Opinion/Jeff Kirvin and RhinoSteve's Danish widow.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: HTC Magician clone
Dr Opinion @ 10/29/2005 8:25:54 PM # Q
> "...3) A couple others who will probably comment below this post. I will update the list later..."

Now that was actually funny. I don't want to encourage the voice of dumbness, I really don't, but that *was* actually funny. :)

(As opposed to the whiney, bitchy, prison-sex oriented stuff we've sadly come to expect from our little friend. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: The Voice for Everyone
twrock @ 10/29/2005 8:25:55 PM # Q
TVOR, I guess you must have thought hkklife couldn't speak for himself on this one. Thanks for chiming in, but I'll wait for him to reply.

I'm still waiting for the mythical "color HandEra."
RE: HTC Magician clone
Simony @ 10/30/2005 1:40:47 AM # Q
Hey, The Vat of Refuse, I thought your performance on Saturday Night Live was a little tame. However, it's nice to see that you are maintaining your comedy standards here at PIC. Bozo.

RE: HTC Magician clone
twizza @ 10/31/2005 12:11:18 PM # Q
Hey Foo;
Dont know when, but the Qool is coming (price is still uncertain but is lower than the 650 unlocked for its unlocked version). And its good, but not a great PalmOS phone. If this one comes, it would be great. But their biggest hurdle has been getting a carrier that will carry the phone at a good price. Basically PiTech/GSPDA/QoolLabs has a hard time because of name recoginition. Its not like Palm/LG/Nokia are making these phones and having subbrands. These are established brands trying to come into a hot market. And the Treo has a heck of a mindshare advantage on a ton of phones right now, especially any that would come here running the PalmOS. Its just a fact of the market.

Personally, I'd take this if it stepped the res up toe HVGA or VGA, just because downsampling apps on the QDA hasnt been so nice for a good deal of apps (usually games but here and there that dang DIA area causes issues).

Moto Comment:
Seems like Moto wanted PS for PalmLinux. If the licensing isnt too bad, I can see them going PalmLinux, but expect 80% percent of the products we see demoed with it not to come to market. They have some weird ability to drum up excitement and then fade into nothing. The Q is unfortunately starting to look like that too despite the fact that it will steal a heck of a lot of BB users away on marketing alone (WM push email helps too of course).

According to a few users/sites, the Moto implementation of Linux was ok, but fat and buggy. They want something better and PalmLinux could work if its done right.

Tis all for now. Holla :D

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

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