Comments on: Colligan Talks About Next Generation Palm OS Progress
Colligan told investors in his opening remarks that the Centro systems team and all Foleo engineers are now totally focused on delivering the next generation platform. He also put a concrete timeframe on its debut, stating they expect it to be "available" by the end of next calendar year.
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RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
WAITAMINUTE!
PALM has been REALLY quiet about their WindRiver "partnership" - I wonder if it IS still in place?
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
But the thing is this: there are a lot more phones to compete with than PDAs. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
<><
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
-Get it at least to Verizon & Alltel in its CDMA form.
-Get the price down an honest $99.99 out the door w/ contract instead of that $199 with a $100 MIR only-with-a-pricey-$25-data plan thing.
-Get a GSM version to market ASAP and sell it for $300ish unlocked.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
2008 will be 2002 all over again?
Reading between the lines I'd taking these comments to read that the Centro is indeed the final POS Treo/device.
So it might be safe to assume that 2008 will be similar to 2002 for Palm......a handful of "me too" very evolutionary devices the first half of the year (m505/m130=A few WinMob rebranded Treos this spring & summmer) before the "big" Palm OS release in the fall (T|T=first Plinux device).
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
Past performance is no guarantee of future expectations. Why would we expect the same pattern to emerge? Yes, Palm had it's heydey then, but the hay ran out quickly thereafter.
It seems like when Ed Colligan speaks in generalities, we dismiss the incredible history of mismanagement at Palm. Somehow, his breaking silence is supposed to make us confident that they have it together or something. Don't get me wrong here, I am really hoping that they get this thing right. I don't think they will, but I hope they prove me terribly wrong by 12/31/08.
15 month projections by Palm are akin to thinking we will know the prime rate in June, 2072. Maybe all the stars will align themselves and we'll actually see a Plinux device that can truly compete in the THEN marketplace. I'll buy a telescope for that day.
Pat Horne
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
I meant that to say "...final POS/Garnet Treo device"
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
rpa
Palm Pilot >> Palm Tungsten E user
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
I'd guess if they decide they can't miss the 2008 deadline it'll ship Vista style. With important features missing and still buggy as all get out.
<http://comments.deasil.com/> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
> deadline it'll ship Vista style...
No, no, no!
COBALT style!
Tired of Hearing 'Them' Talk
Then again, he said calendar year... could mean literally, nov/dec 09. My bet is we won't see it until 2012... hopefully htc will have purchased palm before that point though....
I guess we will HAVE to see some winmob devices in the winter/spring... wm6 is just sitting there, ready for palm to build it out! Any issues (if any) should be worked out before then...
I don't care what palm does as long as they build a decent wm6 treo...
Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job.
Wow
After Palm has been bought up by another company.
Man, Colligan is REALLY banking on that Centro to save his ass.
Let's see how lucky he is.
Or isn't.
OS or Hardware??
Did Colligan say that the OS would be ready by the end of '08 or that devices with the new OS would be ready by then?
If he was only talking about the OS then it will be 2010 before we see actual devices hit the shelves.
RE: OS or Hardware??
I find it very difficult to put much in the way of their statements, but from what they "say" this seems to be the case. Those left at Palm see clearly what many saw in 2004, when the Palmsource spin-off announcement was made. They need to control their own OS and leverage it into integrated hardware+software products. RIM & Apple had enough sense not to get visions of grandeur like the PalmOne + Palmsource idea.
i would be interested to read someone's history of the Palmsource spin-off. Apparently, PalmOne knew it was disasterous immediately. They "say" that they began work on the in-house Plinux OS right after that event. That shows that they believed PSRC would not serve them long term. Boy, were they ever right about that.
Pat Horne
RE: OS or Hardware??
> the OS out to others. It is apparently for in house use only...
Where do you get such an idea?
PALM unambiguously dropped their own in-house development of the Fooleo software and noisily outsourced it to WindRiver.
Why don't you think they're doing just that with this "new" OS?
Do you think they've DROPPED the WindRiver relationship?
RE: OS or Hardware??
Of course, something like this would already have to be in the works as we speak, and Palm's dropped nary a hint about it....but I think that if Palm hopes to debut the new OS on a smartphone, the carriers will (having been burned so badly on the 700p) take forever to certify the device. It wouldn't be wise of Colligan to pin his hopes of a year-from-now release date on the carriers, most of which are notorious laggards when it comes to certifying new devices.
On top of that, it'd give Palm a shot in the arm if Treo/Centro sales sag next year as many of us are anticipating.
Getting a stable, fast, and robust new OS out the door and on store shelves in ~12 months' timewould be a tremendous marketing/PR move for Palm even if it ships initially on only a single PDA/PMP/tablet device.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: OS or Hardware??
Basically, he says thre's not a chacne of starting another Palm/PalmSource fiasco all over again...unless, of course, that's been Palm's intent ever since the FIRST spinoff/split! ;-)
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: OS or Hardware??
BTW - anyone know who replaced Farese?
RE: OS or Hardware??
As in "Here, let the outsourcing guys do the stuff that we've traditionally not been good with and let our guys focus on the things Palm is known for." (ease of use, nice icon design, anything involving the "tap counter" etc.)
I wonder if the PLinux interface will be mostly d-pad oriented, stylus tap-based, fingertip tap-based (I HOPE NOT!), keystroke-based (I hope not), or something else (scroll wheel, trackball etc)?
And will it even INCLUDE Graffiti 1/2 or any other kind of stylus-based single or unistroke character input methods? I could really see them droppping it entirely unless they wanted to keep it out of concern for legacy app compatibility (but then again, most Treo-specific or Treo-friendly apps of the past 3 years haven't had to worry about Graffiti area strokes, so...)
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: OS or Hardware??
<http://comments.deasil.com/> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.
RE: OS or Hardware??
Those of us who were here in the previous millennium will remember MultiMail when it was a pretty nifty but barebones 3rd party app from Actual Software. Then Palm bought Actual Software outright right on the heels of Anyday (remember the mypalm.net mess that followed?) and started turning the nifty little MultiMail into the hugely bloated VersaMail that it is today...and now the hiring of Mark Blanc earlier this year, accoring to the TreoCentral rumor mill, is building up have a VersaMail/ChatterMail hybrid on the Plinux Treos...7.5 years and counting and we'll still waiting on Palm to produce a rock solid in-house e-mail client. Doesn't it seem like it would've made more sense to just license ChatterMail in the first place?
And nearly 6 years after the i705 & the MyPalm mess, Palm's still trying to get get somethng out of the MyPalm branding and get that beta portal to offer some useful service to users.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
End of 2008....end of what else?
If Apple said the next OS would be out at the end of 2008, pundits would fall over each other trying to get early peaks of what was coming.
Palm says the next OS is due out end of 2008 and venture capitalists yawn, journalists write more 'Palm is dead' columns, and Palm's investors look elsewhere to put their depleted investments.
Just how dumb can Ed Colligan get?
Harold
RE: End of 2008....end of what else?
Pretty much so!
http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/dumbass-of-the-year-ed-colligan/
Open Source it
I suggested this 2 years ago. Just GPL the code and create an open source project. With the large development community out there they could put up an emulator and let the developers have at it.
They would have a rock solid OS in months. Plus low cost development on the platform for good. Is this really rocket science?
What is the downside? That other manufacturers can take the open source OS and build their own versions? So what? That just builds the developer community. Palm can still take the project code and add their own GUI elements and proprietary applications to differentiate themselves.
It amazes me that so many companies like Palm still don't understand how to leverage open source. Just look at Novell or RedHat or XenSource.
They are making a big mistake building this all alone with high dollar in-house developers. I don't get it.
RE: Open Source it
To compete today they need to have a rock solid OS underneath an integrated suite of applications with unified look-and-feel that is very easy to use. This is where open source falls flat.
RE: Open Source it
I respectfully disagree. Linux is a rock solid OS and it is open source. They would need help with drivers and stacks as well as integrated applications. The GUI could be proprietary as well as some applications they add to their devices.
Gnome and XGL/Compiz is pretty nice on Linux. The Open source community has done pretty well with the GUI (with a little design help from Novell and others). I really don't think this is a stretch at all.
If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
That can only mean no new GSM-Centro, shame, cause I would really consider the Centro as my Treo 650 replacement. I live in Europe and the 500v is NOT an option - if I have to live with WinMob than there is much better options with WiFi, GPS and other nice stuff.
Itīs good for Palm to focus on delivering the new OS, but killing of Garnet before the POS II is ready is almost suicide - the new OS will be late, and it will be buggy.
Apple kept OS 8/9 alive until OSX was ready for prime time.
Palm, give us a GSM-Centro with new modern icons, integrated SkinUI and SAG while we wait for POS II to be ready for prime time.
RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
http://portal.treobits.com/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=5485
Surur
They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml
RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
Pat Horne
RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
* By the way, someone else has asked this before, and I'm really interested to know too:
- Palm's Global-Find is a wonderful feature. One tap, entering text, and you can see the results in contacts, memos, expenses, appointments, daily journal entries... Is there such a feature on Windows Mobile devices? (which could search through all the programs, not just built in ones)?
Is it something missed by the developers or is it a Windows Mobile problem (lack of feature)? There are still things that Microsoft can learn from the original Palm design ;)
RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
I mean, I can pick up a Pilot 1000 right now (don't laugh, I keep one in my desk drawer at home), pop some fresh AAA batteries in it, and, strange looks from friends and colleagues aside, still do quite nicely with it for basic PIM functions. And it's still quite pocketable and boasts a screen absolutely massive in comparison with anything Palm's released in the past 2 years. Some of the obscure punctuation strokes aside, Graffiti 1's unistrokes is still a fantastic method of text input for those willing to learn it. BTW, I don't think we'll ever see a stylus-based device again that offers the capability for fast and accurate single-stroke text input as the original Tungsten T.
Sure, at the time ('96) I remember thinking there were a few little features that would be nice to have on the original Pilot....a proper Zoomer-style d-pad for one (this came with the T|T in '02), more apps in ROM available right out of the box (Palm's improved annually in this aspect), a backlight (quickly added to the 2nd generation with the PalmPilot), some kind of expansion card slot (kinda/sorta added to the IIIx in '99 but not done right until the m500 in '01) and a sleeker design (found on the iconic Palm V of '99 then utterly perfected by the m500).
But for me personally, I felt Palm was really starting to slip in '00 and '01. That's when they released absolutely nothing "showy" prior to the premature m500 announcement in '01 to follow up the unprecedented Palm V success of '99 . The IIIxe, IIIc and VII were so chunky and clunky in comparison to the Palm V that they seemed DOA upon arrival. IMO, Palm should've pulled an Apple and hitched the entire company philosophy to the Palm V design ethos and, for better or worse, run with it. But around 2000 is definitely when Palm ceased to be an engineering company and turned into the penny-pinching marketing/PR/smoke'n mirrors outfit they are today.
And then when the m500 line finally arrived (remember the Hungary vs. US LCD differences?) I felt that Palm had absolutely wasted the storage capabiltiies offered by the SD slot by not imitating Sony and including a separate DSP chip to enable MP3 playback.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Copeland, Cobalt, PLinux, ALPO, PLinux09
For god's sake, take it back, space aliens! Take it back!!
RE: Copeland, Cobalt, PLinux, ALPO, PLinux09
Eighteen... LONG ... months
Palm admits new OS 18 months away
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/03/palm_os_delay/
Never in the history of tech has there been something like this.
Hey, Nagel, come back!!
(I just gave Gekko a heart attack. Thank me.)
Nagel and Yankowski
I hope Nagel and Yankowski are sitting on the beach somewhere enjoying their millions and their retirement.
RE: Eighteen... LONG ... months
Quite how many Palm applications users will want to run by then is open to question, so compatibility could well be a moot point. Anyone wanting to run Palm apps can easily do so on Windows Mobile using StypeTap, and very soon they'll be able to use Symbian handsets too.
StyleTap coming to Symbian?
Ooh... StyleTap on the N95?
I suppose it's not unfathomable that after a most-likely-inevitable opening of the iPhone to official 3rd party apps, there could be a StyleTap for iPhone too?
USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone
I gave them six months and they talk about end of next year?
I said when the iPhone came out, give them six months and they'll have to release a 3rd party SDK. Now Jobs has announced it for February. Colligan, Hawkins, etc. ... the whole bunch need to resign, be fired, etc. Bring in new people at the top who will get the people in place to have this done by the end of the first quarter of 2008. Do it now, otherwise, this is just another waste of millions like the Foleo. If not, just cancel the next generation OS and focus on Windows Mobile. As much as I'd hate to see the Palm OS die, we've reached the point where there really are few legitimate business options with a chance of success here.
Are the people at the top of Palm really so obviously stupid?!? Five years of obscenely stupid business models, and people are going to keep paying these people at the top for another year of waste and running the company into the ground? Six years late is just TOO LATE in the business world, and these bums have milked the golden Garnet tit till it's raw and bleeding.
Poor Palm OS - but no valid alternatives.
Now I don't think I can emphasize the fact that it is very important to have Java support in a smartphone of anykind. So palm should include that support. I both the operating system's palm uses.. Palm OS, New Palm OS and Windows Mobile (because microsoft was too ****ed up to support the language natively, but then again what do you expect, from a company that would re-invent the wheel if it didn't have a windows logo). Ok I think that is just about enough and I hope that this whole palm os comes out so that palm can finally upgrade the Treo 650, because mine has a lot of scratches on it and I would like something nice to wow my friends with.
Take all the time you need palm but make it good.
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All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
oh that's comforting!