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Colligan Talks About Next Generation Palm OS Progress

Palm Inc LogoPalm's CEO Ed Colligan made a number of comments on the next generation linux-based operating system currently under development at Palm. Colligan made a series of comments on its progress, potential and estimated delivery during remarks at today's Q1 FY08 investor conference call.

Colligan told investors in his opening remarks that the Centro systems team and all Foleo engineers are now totally focused on delivering the next generation platform. He also put a concrete timeframe on its debut, stating they expect it to be "available" by the end of next calendar year.

After years of lingering rumors, Colligan first confirmed the project at an analyst even in April. The OS is widely expected to be the long awaited replacement to the Palm OS. This Linux based OS has been largely developed at Palm and is not to be confused with ACCESS Inc's mobile Linux project, ALP.

Colligan further remarked that part of the focus on the new OS is that Palm does not lose the ease of use and developer support they have had for more than a decade with the Palm OS and will extend Palm's rich heritage of innovation.

Later in the Q&A section of the conference call questions about the new OS came up a number of times and Colligan made further remarks on the issue. When asked about how progress was coming along and if Palm was meeting its milestones on the new OS Ed remarked that the development has "gone as well as possibly could be expected" and he felt that it was coming along on schedule. He also stated that there was much more excitement around it internally at Palm as developers at Palm are now starting to see it working on devices.

When asked where things stood on the Foleo project post cancellation, Colligan again touched on the next-gen OS saying that the future system will enable Palm to deliver a whole range of different products in various form factors including a Foleo like device, all using the same Palm platform.

Further on in another question Colligan remarked that Palm is not ceding the high end of the smartphone market to anybody, and that the next generation device will deliver more revolutionary device types.

Click the audio player below to listen to a couple of selected quotes from the conference call. You will be able to find an archive of the call on Palm's Investor Relations site sometime soon.

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All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?

Gekko @ 10/1/2007 7:42:57 PM # Q

oh that's comforting!



RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
TooMuch @ 10/1/2007 8:01:47 PM # Q
If he had said something like, "we hope to soon have all of the former Foleo programmers working on the next gen Palm OS too", would you be griping about how "stupid and wasteful Palm would be with human resources?"



RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/1/2007 8:03:36 PM # Q
No biggee - don't forget they had a Friday-Night Massacre (whatever day it occurred) and switched over to WindRiver instead of internal folks.

WAITAMINUTE!

PALM has been REALLY quiet about their WindRiver "partnership" - I wonder if it IS still in place?

RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
freakout @ 10/1/2007 8:34:16 PM # Q
^^ You're like a dog with a bone, SV..... is the strategy just to keep repeating the lie until people can no longer be bothered correcting it?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
Tuckermaclain @ 10/1/2007 9:14:57 PM # Q
The Centro gives me hope. Palm departed from the beauty of the Vx/515 and kept building larger and klunkier devices(IMHO). The Centro looks like a U-turn. I can't wait to get one. A PDA, a phone, a camera, an aircard. All in such a tiny package. You have to give them some credit for this effort. This and that little (ASUS?) Foleo-killer notebook would be just incredible. Anybody know if the SERO plan that TVoR spoke of is still available? I'd bet he/she/it will soon dump that old OS4 phone for one of these.

RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
4s @ 10/1/2007 10:19:04 PM # Q
I really like the looks (and price) of the Centro, and I really want to believe it will be the Zire 21 of the smartphone industry, selling an astounding number of units.

But the thing is this: there are a lot more phones to compete with than PDAs. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

<><

RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
hkklife @ 10/1/2007 11:02:57 PM # Q
It doesn't stand the chance of being the Zire of anything unless they do three things with it:

-Get it at least to Verizon & Alltel in its CDMA form.

-Get the price down an honest $99.99 out the door w/ contract instead of that $199 with a $100 MIR only-with-a-pricey-$25-data plan thing.

-Get a GSM version to market ASAP and sell it for $300ish unlocked.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: All Fooleo Enginners are now on the project?
DrewT3 @ 10/2/2007 5:04:07 AM # Q
I wish them the best of luck. I currently use a Nokia e61. While I like the Centro hardware, it will need a real multitasking OS before I would consider going back to Palm.

Reply to this comment

2008 will be 2002 all over again?

hkklife @ 10/1/2007 10:13:56 PM # Q
Yes, SERO is still available, yes. Not sure if you can get it on the Centro, however. You might have to, ahem, "justify" a 755p in order to get the SERO offer.

Reading between the lines I'd taking these comments to read that the Centro is indeed the final POS Treo/device.

So it might be safe to assume that 2008 will be similar to 2002 for Palm......a handful of "me too" very evolutionary devices the first half of the year (m505/m130=A few WinMob rebranded Treos this spring & summmer) before the "big" Palm OS release in the fall (T|T=first Plinux device).


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
LiveFaith @ 10/1/2007 11:00:54 PM # Q
HKK,

Past performance is no guarantee of future expectations. Why would we expect the same pattern to emerge? Yes, Palm had it's heydey then, but the hay ran out quickly thereafter.

It seems like when Ed Colligan speaks in generalities, we dismiss the incredible history of mismanagement at Palm. Somehow, his breaking silence is supposed to make us confident that they have it together or something. Don't get me wrong here, I am really hoping that they get this thing right. I don't think they will, but I hope they prove me terribly wrong by 12/31/08.

15 month projections by Palm are akin to thinking we will know the prime rate in June, 2072. Maybe all the stars will align themselves and we'll actually see a Plinux device that can truly compete in the THEN marketplace. I'll buy a telescope for that day.

Pat Horne

RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
hkklife @ 10/1/2007 11:04:42 PM # Q
Edit:

I meant that to say "...final POS/Garnet Treo device"



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
rpa @ 10/1/2007 11:36:33 PM # Q
12/31/08 is a very, very long time to wait in this industry. Surely they can continue to churn out new products using the Garnet O/S as well as WM6 until then. Might not be too hard to clean up the graphics on Garnet to at least bring more in line with the competition.

rpa
Palm Pilot >> Palm Tungsten E user
RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
nybble @ 10/2/2007 2:43:37 PM # Q
I'd be surprised and disappointed if they released nothing in 2008. It is not the time for them to be seen doing nothing. And if anyone believes that a new linux based Palm OS is getting into consumer's hands in 2008, I've got this great bridge to sell you.

I'd guess if they decide they can't miss the 2008 deadline it'll ship Vista style. With important features missing and still buggy as all get out.

<http://comments.deasil.com/> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.

RE: 2008 will be 2002 all over again?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/2/2007 2:49:19 PM # Q
> ...I'd guess if they decide they can't miss the 2008
> deadline it'll ship Vista style...

No, no, no!

COBALT style!

Reply to this comment

Tired of Hearing 'Them' Talk

theog @ 10/1/2007 10:50:00 PM # Q
hkklife: yea, it seems end of 08 for them would be 1 oct 09 (well, technically, that is the first day of 09, but whatever).

Then again, he said calendar year... could mean literally, nov/dec 09. My bet is we won't see it until 2012... hopefully htc will have purchased palm before that point though....

I guess we will HAVE to see some winmob devices in the winter/spring... wm6 is just sitting there, ready for palm to build it out! Any issues (if any) should be worked out before then...

I don't care what palm does as long as they build a decent wm6 treo...

Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job.

Reply to this comment

Wow

mikecane @ 10/2/2007 7:42:29 AM # Q
>>>stating they expect it to be "available" by the end of next calendar year.

After Palm has been bought up by another company.

Man, Colligan is REALLY banking on that Centro to save his ass.

Let's see how lucky he is.

Or isn't.

Reply to this comment

OS or Hardware??

CADJedi @ 10/2/2007 9:31:45 AM # Q

Did Colligan say that the OS would be ready by the end of '08 or that devices with the new OS would be ready by then?

If he was only talking about the OS then it will be 2010 before we see actual devices hit the shelves.


RE: OS or Hardware??
LiveFaith @ 10/2/2007 9:46:28 AM # Q
I have my doubts that Palm can deliver on anything powerful like this. But, he is probably not talking about an "OS release to devs", then a 6-12 months product launch later. This is due to the fact that Palm is not going to shop the OS out to others. It is apparently for in house use only, and is allegedly already running on hardware around there.

I find it very difficult to put much in the way of their statements, but from what they "say" this seems to be the case. Those left at Palm see clearly what many saw in 2004, when the Palmsource spin-off announcement was made. They need to control their own OS and leverage it into integrated hardware+software products. RIM & Apple had enough sense not to get visions of grandeur like the PalmOne + Palmsource idea.

i would be interested to read someone's history of the Palmsource spin-off. Apparently, PalmOne knew it was disasterous immediately. They "say" that they began work on the in-house Plinux OS right after that event. That shows that they believed PSRC would not serve them long term. Boy, were they ever right about that.

Pat Horne

RE: OS or Hardware??
SeldomVisitor @ 10/2/2007 10:43:17 AM # Q
> ...This is due to the fact that Palm is not going to shop
> the OS out to others. It is apparently for in house use only...

Where do you get such an idea?

PALM unambiguously dropped their own in-house development of the Fooleo software and noisily outsourced it to WindRiver.

Why don't you think they're doing just that with this "new" OS?

Do you think they've DROPPED the WindRiver relationship?

RE: OS or Hardware??
hkklife @ 10/2/2007 11:02:54 AM # Q
Despite the Fooleo follies, it still wouldn't amaze me TOO much if Palm were to "gently" launch their next-gen OS on a NON-SMARTPHONE device. While I think they've thrown in the towel PDA-wise (and sub-notebook wise), I could see them doing a LifeDrive 2.0 type device. Not resembling the original LD, of course, but maybe a UMPC or N800-sized tablet with a major emphasis on multimedia & web functionality. They could easily "push" updates to it without having to worry about breaking crucial voice functionality like on a smartphone and it'd all be done completely devoid of the carriers' stringest testing practices (Verizon in particluar).

Of course, something like this would already have to be in the works as we speak, and Palm's dropped nary a hint about it....but I think that if Palm hopes to debut the new OS on a smartphone, the carriers will (having been burned so badly on the 700p) take forever to certify the device. It wouldn't be wise of Colligan to pin his hopes of a year-from-now release date on the carriers, most of which are notorious laggards when it comes to certifying new devices.

On top of that, it'd give Palm a shot in the arm if Treo/Centro sales sag next year as many of us are anticipating.

Getting a stable, fast, and robust new OS out the door and on store shelves in ~12 months' timewould be a tremendous marketing/PR move for Palm even if it ships initially on only a single PDA/PMP/tablet device.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: OS or Hardware??
hkklife @ 10/2/2007 11:05:50 AM # Q
I think, SV, that Pat means that they are NOT going to license the new OS out to others and have to worry about tweaking the OS for various customers, supporting competing devices' development, writing new APIs for oddball hardware, etc.

Basically, he says thre's not a chacne of starting another Palm/PalmSource fiasco all over again...unless, of course, that's been Palm's intent ever since the FIRST spinoff/split! ;-)



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: OS or Hardware??
SeldomVisitor @ 10/2/2007 11:10:31 AM # Q
Oh, okay - I can believe THAT...but I truly think they're considerably outsourcing STILL the development of their software (and I think that's a good thing for PALM,BTW).

BTW - anyone know who replaced Farese?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/2/2007 11:13:55 AM # Q
PALM's website continues to have him as SVP of Engineering...sheesh...talking about results of outsourcing...

RE: OS or Hardware??
hkklife @ 10/2/2007 11:19:20 AM # Q
Oh definitely. I think they are outsourcing MOST of the software heavy lifting but probably have a smaller internal team concocting the "Palm Special Sauce" and doing the GUI enhacements, PIM app interfaces etc. And I never expected Palm to license ANYTHING to anyone. Heck, they don't like licensing stuff FROM people (Graffiti 1 libraries from Xerox, anyone?) so I wouldn't expect it to work in reverse.

As in "Here, let the outsourcing guys do the stuff that we've traditionally not been good with and let our guys focus on the things Palm is known for." (ease of use, nice icon design, anything involving the "tap counter" etc.)

I wonder if the PLinux interface will be mostly d-pad oriented, stylus tap-based, fingertip tap-based (I HOPE NOT!), keystroke-based (I hope not), or something else (scroll wheel, trackball etc)?

And will it even INCLUDE Graffiti 1/2 or any other kind of stylus-based single or unistroke character input methods? I could really see them droppping it entirely unless they wanted to keep it out of concern for legacy app compatibility (but then again, most Treo-specific or Treo-friendly apps of the past 3 years haven't had to worry about Graffiti area strokes, so...)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: OS or Hardware??
nybble @ 10/2/2007 2:47:55 PM # Q
hkklife, I think it's interesting what you're saying, although I question the wisdom of a company outsourcing it's meat and potatoes and only making the gravy. But, maybe it works maybe it doesn't. But I disagree with you about Palm's enjoyment of licensing... windows mobile? palm os? Their two most central pieces of code are licensed...

<http://comments.deasil.com/> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.
RE: OS or Hardware??
hkklife @ 10/2/2007 4:48:06 PM # Q
I think that both of those OSes (WinMob & Palm OS Garnet) are "necessary evils". Traditionally, Palm hasn't really been too much in favor of licensing bits & pieces that are not absolutely necessary. I still maintain that had they just sucked it up and licensed the Graffiti 1 libraries from Xerox alongside a facelifted version of TCMP a few years ago they'd be in a better position nowadays. All of this stuff doesn't amount to much individually but it just slowly but surely erodes the remaining user goodwill towards Palm & the OS.

Those of us who were here in the previous millennium will remember MultiMail when it was a pretty nifty but barebones 3rd party app from Actual Software. Then Palm bought Actual Software outright right on the heels of Anyday (remember the mypalm.net mess that followed?) and started turning the nifty little MultiMail into the hugely bloated VersaMail that it is today...and now the hiring of Mark Blanc earlier this year, accoring to the TreoCentral rumor mill, is building up have a VersaMail/ChatterMail hybrid on the Plinux Treos...7.5 years and counting and we'll still waiting on Palm to produce a rock solid in-house e-mail client. Doesn't it seem like it would've made more sense to just license ChatterMail in the first place?

And nearly 6 years after the i705 & the MyPalm mess, Palm's still trying to get get somethng out of the MyPalm branding and get that beta portal to offer some useful service to users.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: OS or Hardware??
LiveFaith @ 10/3/2007 12:44:10 AM # Q
SV,
Yeah, what he said.

Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

End of 2008....end of what else?

hgoldner @ 10/2/2007 9:39:29 AM # Q
If Microsoft said the next OS would be out at the end of 2008, the technology industry would pause, software publishers and hardware manufactures retrench, and competitors assess their marketing plans.

If Apple said the next OS would be out at the end of 2008, pundits would fall over each other trying to get early peaks of what was coming.

Palm says the next OS is due out end of 2008 and venture capitalists yawn, journalists write more 'Palm is dead' columns, and Palm's investors look elsewhere to put their depleted investments.

Just how dumb can Ed Colligan get?

Harold

RE: End of 2008....end of what else?
mikecane @ 10/2/2007 5:18:49 PM # Q
>>>Just how dumb can Ed Colligan get?

Pretty much so!

http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/dumbass-of-the-year-ed-colligan/

Reply to this comment

Open Source it

CleverClaire @ 10/2/2007 11:20:00 AM # Q
Geez,

I suggested this 2 years ago. Just GPL the code and create an open source project. With the large development community out there they could put up an emulator and let the developers have at it.

They would have a rock solid OS in months. Plus low cost development on the platform for good. Is this really rocket science?

What is the downside? That other manufacturers can take the open source OS and build their own versions? So what? That just builds the developer community. Palm can still take the project code and add their own GUI elements and proprietary applications to differentiate themselves.

It amazes me that so many companies like Palm still don't understand how to leverage open source. Just look at Novell or RedHat or XenSource.

They are making a big mistake building this all alone with high dollar in-house developers. I don't get it.


RE: Open Source it
DrewT3 @ 10/2/2007 12:17:31 PM # Q
If the goal was merely to make a rock-solid OS they could port a Z80 emulator to ARM and run a CPM shell on the Treo.
To compete today they need to have a rock solid OS underneath an integrated suite of applications with unified look-and-feel that is very easy to use. This is where open source falls flat.

RE: Open Source it
CleverClaire @ 10/2/2007 2:56:44 PM # Q
Drew,

I respectfully disagree. Linux is a rock solid OS and it is open source. They would need help with drivers and stacks as well as integrated applications. The GUI could be proprietary as well as some applications they add to their devices.

Gnome and XGL/Compiz is pretty nice on Linux. The Open source community has done pretty well with the GUI (with a little design help from Novell and others). I really don't think this is a stretch at all.

RE: Open Source it
mikecane @ 10/2/2007 5:20:04 PM # Q
Yeah, look at the big fat flood of Maemo apps.

Next!

Reply to this comment

If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...

iBjorn @ 10/2/2007 12:42:27 PM # Q
"...the Centro systems team and all Foleo engineers are now totally focused on delivering the next generation platform."

That can only mean no new GSM-Centro, shame, cause I would really consider the Centro as my Treo 650 replacement. I live in Europe and the 500v is NOT an option - if I have to live with WinMob than there is much better options with WiFi, GPS and other nice stuff.

Itīs good for Palm to focus on delivering the new OS, but killing of Garnet before the POS II is ready is almost suicide - the new OS will be late, and it will be buggy.

Apple kept OS 8/9 alive until OSX was ready for prime time.

Palm, give us a GSM-Centro with new modern icons, integrated SkinUI and SAG while we wait for POS II to be ready for prime time.

RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
Surur @ 10/2/2007 2:58:42 PM # Q
The GSM Centro has already been spotted in France with an Orange SIM.

http://portal.treobits.com/index.php?ind=news&op=news_show_single&ide=5485

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
LiveFaith @ 10/3/2007 12:52:03 AM # Q
Wowsers Surer. Nice revelation. BTW, is that the new Phone app too? Maybe it's just a GSM thang? No CDMA phones ever get the new phone app.

Pat Horne
RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
iBjorn @ 10/3/2007 2:17:36 AM # Q
Nice, then there is still hope...

RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
ExPalmUser2 @ 10/3/2007 11:24:56 AM # Q
Unfortunately Palm is already dead! Beginning of 2009 is a ridiculous time for releasing something that should have been releaed years ago. They are years behind the schedule. A few loyal costumers might stay with Palm waiting for Palm 09 OS (which will eventually switch if they are reasonable). Microsoft won the race. Handheld computer concept as Jeff Hawkings created it was an excellent invention. He is indeed the father of PDAs and handheld computers. I really *love* the wooden-block story by the way. Every aspect of the device was right on spot! Form factor, key arrangments, Graffiti area, size, weight, price, and Graffiti One's (unistroke!!) speed and accuracy and of course the simplicity of the experience. Even the cpu and operating system was a great choice back then. Microsoft had mobile computing in mind too but they couldn't get it right. They tried different things with other form factors, with small keyboards, without small keyboards :) different text entry systems, but they failed. Palm's design was the solution. So after years of changing things and trying different things they end up with Hawkin's design (for pdas) which was the most excellent, practical and simple one. The same form-factor, key arrangement, size, and 'block recognizer' (unistroke). So actually they learned to take the positive aspects of Palm design and alongside it they continued to develope and change their OS which was their expertise*. Jeff Hawkings changed the way a lot of people deal with daily information. Palm should have started to work on a multi-tasking OS in 1999 envisioning the future. It's too late now.

* By the way, someone else has asked this before, and I'm really interested to know too:
- Palm's Global-Find is a wonderful feature. One tap, entering text, and you can see the results in contacts, memos, expenses, appointments, daily journal entries... Is there such a feature on Windows Mobile devices? (which could search through all the programs, not just built in ones)?
Is it something missed by the developers or is it a Windows Mobile problem (lack of feature)? There are still things that Microsoft can learn from the original Palm design ;)

RE: If POS II is late OR buggy Palm is dead...
hkklife @ 10/3/2007 11:47:01 AM # Q
I agree, it's amazing how Hawkins managed to absolutely nail nearly everything about the original Pilot. It really makes you wonder if he really was that brilliant or if he just got lucky. The little block of wood, the tap counter, and Rob Haitani's UI efforts on the primitive hardware were just sheer genius and easily gave Palm a solid half-decade lead on the rest of the industry.

I mean, I can pick up a Pilot 1000 right now (don't laugh, I keep one in my desk drawer at home), pop some fresh AAA batteries in it, and, strange looks from friends and colleagues aside, still do quite nicely with it for basic PIM functions. And it's still quite pocketable and boasts a screen absolutely massive in comparison with anything Palm's released in the past 2 years. Some of the obscure punctuation strokes aside, Graffiti 1's unistrokes is still a fantastic method of text input for those willing to learn it. BTW, I don't think we'll ever see a stylus-based device again that offers the capability for fast and accurate single-stroke text input as the original Tungsten T.

Sure, at the time ('96) I remember thinking there were a few little features that would be nice to have on the original Pilot....a proper Zoomer-style d-pad for one (this came with the T|T in '02), more apps in ROM available right out of the box (Palm's improved annually in this aspect), a backlight (quickly added to the 2nd generation with the PalmPilot), some kind of expansion card slot (kinda/sorta added to the IIIx in '99 but not done right until the m500 in '01) and a sleeker design (found on the iconic Palm V of '99 then utterly perfected by the m500).

But for me personally, I felt Palm was really starting to slip in '00 and '01. That's when they released absolutely nothing "showy" prior to the premature m500 announcement in '01 to follow up the unprecedented Palm V success of '99 . The IIIxe, IIIc and VII were so chunky and clunky in comparison to the Palm V that they seemed DOA upon arrival. IMO, Palm should've pulled an Apple and hitched the entire company philosophy to the Palm V design ethos and, for better or worse, run with it. But around 2000 is definitely when Palm ceased to be an engineering company and turned into the penny-pinching marketing/PR/smoke'n mirrors outfit they are today.

And then when the m500 line finally arrived (remember the Hungary vs. US LCD differences?) I felt that Palm had absolutely wasted the storage capabiltiies offered by the SD slot by not imitating Sony and including a separate DSP chip to enable MP3 playback.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Copeland, Cobalt, PLinux, ALPO, PLinux09

Gekko @ 10/2/2007 3:59:19 PM # Q

yet FrankenGarnet lives on!

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