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    Comments on: 2005 the Palm OS Year in Review
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 But Wait, There's More!PenguinPowered @ 1/11/2006 12:56:30 AM #
Er, but I'm not allowed to talk about it.
We'll just have to wait for Skippy to finally find out and blab.
 Don't be a hater, Marty.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/11/2006 1:56:33 AM #
PalmSource helped put food on your table for a year. Enough with the backstabbing, already.
It's time for you to let go and "move on", Marty. And if you ever need to vent, or need a shounder to cry on, remember: nobody here cares about you. The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: But Wait, There's More!PenguinPowered @ 1/11/2006 2:51:48 AM #
skippy, skippy, skippy, just when i thought you were learning.
I never said that what i couldn't say was bad news. only that you don't know it yet.
RE: But Wait, There's More!
It's not a secret anymore. Eleven devices running Cobalt will be released by the end of 2005. Most people know that already.
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com RE: But Wait, There's More!The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/11/2006 2:50:20 PM #
I never said that what i couldn't say was bad news.
only that you don't know it yet. Stay off the drugs, Marty. It's not a secret anymore. Eleven devices running Cobalt will be released by the end of 2005. Most people know that already. Actually, they were referring to the end of 2005 in the JULIAN CALENDAR. Technically speaking, this means they still have until January 13, 2006 (Gregorian calendar date) before you can call them a bunch of sleazy, lying dirtbags. I have faith that we'll see at least one Cobalt device released before this weekend. Pat: Why have you forsaken Palm? Sinner! TVoR The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: But Wait, There's More!
Chinese New Year is January 29. The have lots of time still.
It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway. RE: But Wait, There's More!
>Pat: Why have you forsaken Palm? Sinner!
I'm standing strong until the end. Just waiting to see if Spring will bring anything worthy to upgrade my Pilot 1000 to. Et tu, Pat?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 12:55:15 AM #
Just waiting to see if Spring will bring anything worthy to upgrade my Pilot 1000 to.
I hear you can trade Palm your Pilot 1000 and they'll send you three LifeDrives in return. I'm waiting for them to sweeten the deal by only sending me two LifeDrives in return for my old Pilot 1000...
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: But Wait, There's More!Timothy Rapson @ 1/12/2006 8:22:33 AM #
EPalm EPat, lama sabachthani?
Mt 27:46 Too late?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 11:37:06 PM #
It may be too late. Pat has now fallen under the spell of Beelzebub Gates.
Methinks it's time for an "intervention" on Pat's behalf. We CAN and MUST save this lost lamb. The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
Ryan, you left out the BIGGEST PalmSource story of all...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/11/2006 1:50:49 AM #
And no, I don't mean Marty Fouts getting "outed" here at Palminfocenter.
;-O Do you really not know what's happened, or are you just trying to be nice? Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Ryan, you left out the BIGGEST PalmSource story of all..PenguinPowered @ 1/11/2006 2:56:54 AM #
I didn't think you'd want Ryan reminding everybody about how Lefty slapped you around, but hey, I guess for you, any attention is better than none?
Do you dream of electric sheep, Skippy?
RE: Ryan, you left out the BIGGEST PalmSource story of all...
Ryan;
Good summary outling '05. I had forgotten about the near-vapor releases of some of the Europe & Asia only smartphones. Now I'd REALLY like to see the Voice's '06 predictions article and the long-awaited VZ90 review/overview. I myself am going to contribute some material to PIC (per the sentiment of the past few days to make our last stand here) with a couple of game reviews in the works at the moment. I also am working on a review of the Palm GPS Navigator kit and, eventualy, a T5/TX case review. Initial impressions are quite positive of the GPS kit even if it basiclaly is just a repackaging of other firms' components in a Palm-branded box. Oh a "tell all" article from an ex-PalmSourcer would be lovely gossip but that's probably too volatile for "official" PIC content...not to mention a sure fire bet to get someone into legal hot water. I guess we'll just have to wait for the other shoe to drop through the grapevine, huh? I have to say that the dialogue here on PIC over the past two weeks has been some of the most entertaining and informative/insightful speculation we've had in a long time. I'm actually enjoying the "stir" the 700w has created even if I have zero interest in the actual product itself. RE: Ryan, you left out the BIGGEST PalmSource story of all...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 12:29:45 AM #
Now I'd REALLY like to see the Voice's '06 predictions article
Sorry - no can do. That would be illegal! ;-O
VZ90. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. VZ90 + TCPMP + Wi-Fi connection = the ultimate combination media player/Internet tablet/PDA. Review will come. Soon. I'm also planning to finish up the reviews of a few apps. TVoR ;-O TVoR The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
something decent in news every monthackmondual @ 1/11/2006 12:00:01 PM #
It could've been much worse for Palm all things considered
"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 of 6 screws still remaining) ~?~> zodiac 2?
Cobalt is here at last!!Foo Fighter @ 1/11/2006 1:15:58 PM #
We're saved! At last we can finally install Cobalt on our handhelds, and it's compabile with all Palm OS hardware...
http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2006/01/cobalt_10.html
AWESOME!!! I knew the Cobalt upgrade would be released!The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/11/2006 3:16:52 PM #
To all the doubters (I'm looking at YOU, Pat Horne) who never believed we would see Cobalt released, all I want to say is... IN YOUR FACE!!!
We now we have it available for FREE and running. Suckers! TVoR
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
Ha! You're the sucka! That's not even the real Cobalt. It's a hoax!!!
The real Cobalt screensaver has never repeating pattern of vapor which begins at the bottom and randomly dissapates as it ascends toward the top. Fools!
"A Cobalt in every pot"The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 12:43:47 AM #
Lies! Cobat is REAL, I tell you! REAL!
And why are you using the words "Cobalt" and "Vapor" in the same sentence? I'm tempted to tell Dianne Hackborn on you and have her administer a biotchslapping like you'll NEVER believe! Cobalt is REAL.
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is face down in the graveThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 11:49:24 PM #
That's not REAL Cobalt. That's just a renamed Chevy Cavalier.
------------------------ Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
http://tinyurl.com/8hj34
But Voice, how can an OS that never technically "lived" be face down in its grave? Not to be Dr. O style pedantic (HAH!) here but isn't it more....stillborn than "dead"? I wonder when Access is going to remove EVERY trace/hint of Cobalt from their website...just kind of magically "wash" it out of existence. I figure it'll be kinda/sorta how Palm tries to pretend that Graffiti 1 never existed.
RE: Cobalt is here at last!!PenguinPowered @ 1/13/2006 3:23:46 AM #
Cobalt Lives!
Er, wait, no, that was Frodo. Anyway, PalmOS on Linux is Cobalt, but running on a Linux kernel. Think of it as Robert De Niro with Peter Boyle's heart. Where's Boris Karloff when you need him?
You guys are just being "pedantical"The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/13/2006 4:04:24 AM #
But Voice, how can an OS that never technically "lived" be face down in its grave? Not to be Dr. O style pedantic (HAH!) here but isn't it more....stillborn than "dead"?
Ummmmm... wrong. Cobalt lived in that slow, buggy piece of **** Oswin smartphone for two glorious days at PalmSource's DevCon last year before being (mercifully) put out of its misery and getting flushed down the toilet (along with any remaining shreds of PalmSource's credibility). Anyway, PalmOS on Linux is Cobalt, but running on a Linux kernel. Think of it as Robert De Niro with Peter Boyle's heart. Where's Boris Karloff when you need him? PalmLinux = FrankenPalmOS™: I can't wait to hear the excuses start flying over why PalmLinux won't show up (groundhog-style) in 2006. TVoR
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is here at last!!SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2006 6:38:35 AM #
I don't know if it's been mentioned here yet (haven't read the thread!) but "Cobalt" has been a SUN Microsystems product for years, e.g.:
-- http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/Systems/Cobalt/Cobalt.html I once sent a note off to PalmSource asking about the conflict of THEIR "Cobalt" OS with Sun's...they never replied...giggle. RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
Voice/anyone else;
Thanks for the clarification. Did anyone here actually see/use in PERSON at DevCon that slow, buggy Oswin phone before PalmSource pedanticized it out of its misery? I thought FrankenGarnet was bad enough...the smorgasbord of code bits outlined in the post above is enough to make my head hurt...and I'm not a developer//programmer/codemonkey!
RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
hkklife wrote:
Did anyone here actually see/use in PERSON at DevCon that slow, buggy Oswin phone I did, of course. I only fiddled with the built-in PIM apps for a few minutes so I can't say I did anything that really put it through its paces. But, FWIW, in the 15 minutes I used it I didn't find it slow or buggy. I have heard from other developers who bought them that performance wasn't great, but it was difficult to tell whether that was inherent to the OS or due to beta drivers or what have you. I never heard reports about it being "buggy" but I didn't exactly take a poll. From what little I know about how Cobalt was written I would expect some performance penalty running existing Palm apps as compared to Garnet. Other things being equal (hopefully they won't be) I would expect the performance penalty when you put Linux under Cobalt's hood to be increased due to the less efficient context switching that's been discussed elsewhere. Of course, with Cobalt developers have a reasonable opportunity to write native ARM code that they haven't yet had--almost all Palm apps to date currently run as emulated 68k code. Taking advantage of that opportunity could resolve all those performance issues. In short, we really don't know right now what Cobalt or Cobalt-Linux would be like in a real production device. RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
Hmmm.
Garnet = OS 4 + some new APIs BUT rewritten in ARM, with the interface exposed as 68K. Thus, API intensive code is fast. Non-API code is slower because all of the 68k code have to have instruction set translated to ARM. So Garnet/PACE is the efficient way to be backwards compatible. Cobolt = PACE + Cobolt OS framework & UI + purely native Cobolt API (exposed 'natively' this time) + Cobolt Kernal PalmLinux = Cobolt - Cobolt Kernal + Linux Kernal WITH modifications to OS & APIs to accommadate the different threading /memory management model of the linux Kernal. Palm Linux is not a 'messy hack' of Cobolt. The highest level functionality of the OS exists fairly discreet from the Kernal (with the exceptions mentioned for accomadating the different threading/multitasking model). It's not as if Cobolt devices are already out there to complicate the compatibility situation for PalmLinux by forcing them to pull off some sort of crap work around to deal with the new model(the way MS messed up with the no-close-button thing on early the PPC OS and then came up with the pathetic 'smart-minimize' solution so that people never knew if a given app was actually shutting down or just minimizing when you tap the stupid 'X'. God thats dumb). PalmLinux is no more of a mess than MacOS X is. The Mac has proprietarey Mac UI / Framework / APIs on top of a Unix kernal AND with a compatibilty layer for classic Mac stuff. Same deal. Oswin Cobalt FecesFoneThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/13/2006 4:12:02 PM #
I have heard from other developers who bought them that performance wasn't great
Sounds like Beersy's Apologist Hat HAS CUT OFF CIRCULATION TO HIS BRAIN. Don't get fooled by his B.S., hkklife. Cobalt ran like a drunken, crippled PIG on the Oswin smartphone. Of course Beersy will have you believe it was just a minor revision away from rivalling a Pentagon supercomputer...
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is here at last!!Foo Fighter @ 1/13/2006 4:40:17 PM #
I don't think it really matters how poorly Cobalt performed on the Oswin phone, because neither went beyond the conceptual stage. Although, it does make you wonder; if Cobalt already performed like a pig stuck in mud, what's it going to perfom like sitting on Linux's shoulders? My encounters with Linux on mobile devices is mainly constrained to QT and Opie...and both are miserable software environements. Slow..buggy...bloated..with horribly designed GUIs that make old Windows CE (which they are modeled after) look like OSX.
------------------------------- Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com RE: Cobalt is here at last!!PenguinPowered @ 1/13/2006 8:14:51 PM #
Palm Linux is not a 'messy hack' of Cobolt.
Thank you. I haven't laughed so hard in days. PalmLinux is no more of a mess than MacOS X is. Having seen the insides of both, I would have to describe the above sentence as "damning with faint praise." Mach was a conceptual hack job on Accent before DARPA suggested to CMU that "Unix compatibility would be nice", after which it morphed into an actual hack job on BSD. Then it was whacked on my NeXT, and finally, Apple, until it became the gordian knot of spaghetti code that it is today. Knowing that, I can safely say that you are correct, PalmLinux is no more of a mess than that. (Never inquire too closely into the making of sausages or operatig systems.)
Some people need to buy a vowelThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 7:09:05 AM #
Hmmm.
Garnet = OS 4 + some new APIs BUT rewritten in ARM, with the interface exposed as 68K. Thus, API intensive code is fast. Non-API code is slower because all of the 68k code have to have instruction set translated to ARM. So Garnet/PACE is the efficient way to be backwards compatible. Cobolt = PACE + Cobolt OS framework & UI + purely native Cobolt API (exposed 'natively' this time) + Cobolt Kernal PalmLinux = Cobolt - Cobolt Kernal + Linux Kernal WITH modifications to OS & APIs to accommadate the different threading /memory management model of the linux Kernal. Palm Linux is not a 'messy hack' of Cobolt. The highest level functionality of the OS exists fairly discreet from the Kernal (with the exceptions mentioned for accomadating the different threading/multitasking model). It's not as if Cobolt devices are already out there to complicate the compatibility situation for PalmLinux by forcing them to pull off some sort of crap work around to deal with the new model(the way MS messed up with the no-close-button thing on early the PPC OS and then came up with the pathetic 'smart-minimize' solution so that people never knew if a given app was actually shutting down or just minimizing when you tap the stupid 'X'. God thats dumb). PalmLinux is no more of a mess than MacOS X is. The Mac has proprietarey Mac UI / Framework / APIs on top of a Unix kernal AND with a compatibilty layer for classic Mac stuff. Same deal. Bubba, you need to get a clue. - Cobalt was already a "messy hack" that would have needed another two YEARS of development (and the accompanying increases in mobile processor speeds expected from the trickle down from Moore's Law) before it could be considered a viable OS for use by consumers. - PalmLinux is by definition a "messy hack" of Cobalt, as PalmSource was attempting to salvage whatever code they could from Cobalt and cobble together a trendier OS ASAP before the roof came down on them. They simply didn't have time to do a clean sheet design of PalmLinux using some fresh (non-PalmSource) engineers experienced in mobile Linux. So what happens when you do a "messy hack" of a "messy hack"? In you world, the "messy hack[s]" cancel each other out, resulting in Perfect Code, right? Well in the Real World, you actually get Massive Problems that have people up late at night trying to come up with fixes before time runs out and nobody gives a damn anymore about the OS (BeOS-style). If PalmSource releases a STABLE, FUNCTIONAL PalmLinux by Summer 2006 like they claimed they would, I will be shocked but would be the first to say they are geniuses. Having seen the Keystone Kops running the show at PalmSource, this just ain't gonna happen. Sorry, Bubba. Maybe PalmLinux will ultimately be used to power eVilla 2 in 2008 instead? - Mac OS X was a huge, brutal, "messy hack". The difference between PalmSource and Apple is that Apple managed to pull it off. But don't look too closely under the hood of Mac OS X - you might just throw up if you saw what a nasty, skanky OS your precious, virginal Mac OS really is. - The word is Cobalt. - You might want to S T F U before you make get sued for making some poor PalmSource codemonkey choke to death on bananas after reading your comments. Take off those rose colored glasses. Welcome to the Real World, Neo.
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Cobalt is here at last!!
>>Knowing that, I can safely say that you are correct, PalmLinux is no more of a mess than that.
I would never ever argue otherwise. I am cynical, I run windows on my desktop - so i expect a mess from any major OS these days (I gave up on perfection when AMiga dies years ago i was forced to get over it and 'settle' for Windows). BUT it is relative. >>But don't look too closely under the hood of Mac OS X - you might just throw up if you saw what a nasty, skanky OS your precious, virginal Mac OS really is. Check your 'precious, virginal' ego. I don't use Mac, don't own one, and don't like the OS one bit (though i have coded for it). Oh know! - spaghetti code in an OS?????? Are you going to defend your 'precious, virginal' Windows OS? Point: Mac is clearly 'good enough' and - relative to where Palm OS 5 is right now - represents a *huge* leap forward. PalmSource would be doing pretty well right now in the eyes of developers if they had already transitioned to such a 'mess' of an OS - seeing as it is much better to write code for (i.e. actually has an API to to write code against the new OS features vs Palm OS 68k API only + ARM hacking). Anyways - thanks for yr reflexive non-insightful criticism, TVOR. As usual, NOTHING is added to the discussion. You are not educating me on anything - I live in the real world where i recognize that such a new OS replacing Garnet with pLinux cannot help but be a big improvement over what we have. Don't know what your expectations are - but it sounds pretty naive. RE: Cobalt is D.O.A. Will PalmLinux show up dead as well?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/15/2006 2:51:52 PM #
My point is this: PLinux can only be better than the w-a-y overdue for replacement Garnet OS - a trully hacked beast at this point.
Again you show how naïve you truly are, Bubba. PalmOS 5 is HERE, has been HERE for 4 years, has proven, widely available development tools, has known bugs + known workarounds, has a decent knowledge base, and ARM apps can be used if developers want to make the effort to do so. PalmLinux, on the other hand is just VAPORWARE at this point. Whether or not it can function in the REAL WORLD (as PalmOS 5 has bravely been doing for the past 4 years) remains to be seen. In 2004, when PalmSource started to realize that there was a big possibility that Cobalt was not worth trying to save, they should have had the foresight to devote some resources to cleaning up the PalmOS 5 code as much as was realistically possible, since it would be their only shippig OS for 2 or 3 years if Cobalt was shelved. At this point, the smart money would take a known entity like PalmOS 5 over PalmLinux. If you don't believe me, just ask my old buddy, Martha... I mean Marty Fouts. I don't use Mac, don't own one, and don't like the OS one bit (though i have coded for it). Oh know! - spaghetti code in an OS?????? Are you going to defend your 'precious, virginal' Windows OS? I never said you used MacOS. And it was Marty - not me - who told you that MacOS is a "gordian knot of spaghetti code... today". And no, I have no need to defend Windows, since I made no claims regarding its elegance or lack thereof. Personally, I feel The Commodore Vic 20 and Coleco Adam are the only systems that matter. Windows XP and MacOS X bow before the might of the Vic 20 and the Adam... You are not educating me on anything - I live in the real world where i recognize that such a new OS replacing Garnet with pLinux cannot help but be a big improvement over what we have. Don't know what your expectations are - but it sounds pretty naive. Since I've already edumacated you, I'll leave you to try and figure out the extreme irony of your previous paragraph. Hint: a couple of years ago people were saying "replacing Garnet with Cobalt cannot help but be a big improvement over what we have". I'll ignore your puerile insults, as I truly hope you'll finally LEARN something for a change. TVoR [a.k.a. Gandhi] The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823
Developer rants at PalmOS
Shadowplan developer Jeff Mitchel rants at POS.
Palm: Things That Annoy the Developers (Like Me)
A comprehensive list of things that annoy me would be enormous as I routinely work around dozens of different Palm OS system bugs every day. But off the top of my head right now, heres what comes to mind .. call it the abridged and shortened summary of the greater litany :) Ben, and my many friends at Palm and PalmSource - Edit, Jan 2006: Remember, I love this platform and work on it every day. I wrote this after working around some really aggravating OS bugs and answering hundreds of support emails about it. Don't be going and thinking I'm anti-Palm OS or anything ;) Note: I could equally flame Microsft Pocket PC, WinCE, etc. I will, Backwards and Forwards Compatibility
In the end, to summarize - it is a chore to develop for Palm OS Palm Competing with Developers So great, we were all happy PalmOne decided to start growing their PIMs. Remember, when a tire won't fit on your car, you don't blame GM.. you What they did was introduce new databases, undocumented; when developers They finally did release some documentation, years late. I don't The real tragedy is the lack of learning - this wasn't the first nor Development Tools - or Lack There-Of
With Palm OS 5 and earlier, the official development suite was always So in the Palm OS world, developers have been cobbling things together .. OKay, theres some other tools so lets flame them too - Java is a popular The reverse is also true; MS wants everyone to move to C#, but of course If you want some cross platform code to work, your best bet is C/C++, One other sub-annoyance; people all want java and C# and python these days The OS 6 Fiasco This is much publicized so I needn't go into it much, but in summary - Mac OS Mobile developers aren't big companies with enormous budgets to burn, so Globals, 68k/ARM, and Other 1970s Problems Again, being spoiled by the wonderful development environments of the The problem is when you wish to actually write ARM code, to get some At least I did my part.. I got XCade out pretty fast (one of the first Another thing that annoys me is the whole launch code and globals OS Behind the Times We all like compatibility (see all that ranting above?), but we're also It seems alien again to be in 2005 with simple bleep-bleep alarms in Missing APIs
Licensee Madness This is mostly old news, but it drove us all mental over the years. Sony pioneered high-resolution because PalmSource couldn't get something Course, Sony was evil for refusing to document how their joystick They also refused to document the sound system; as usual, developers I'll try not to go on, but the problem was PalmSource's lack in taking Really, its amazing anyone developed for the platform at all when At least Tapwave got most of it right.. a shame they tanked :/ Installations A standard installer process would have been nice; heck, thinking ahead Quality Assurance Last but not least is just the lack of QA here; how does it slip through Whew! When I began this opus I had not intended to write all this out .. I Now that I'm all healed, you're suffering. Merry Christmas! :) They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong... Developer rants at PalmOS - where to go next?
URL for the above. http://www.livejournal.com/users/skeezixcodejedi/
Also Full article is here: A number of developers I know have been asking the same questions that weigh heavily on my mind - we all watch the tides a' turning and in our markets and domains we have to keep at the front or get left behind, flotsam of the mobile digital age. Of course, being in the front - cresting the wave as it were - is a great risk yet also provides many advantages. When it comes right down to it, being in front is where the fun is, is where the adventure of it all is.. until the dragon catches up.
RE: Developer rants at PalmOSFoo Fighter @ 1/11/2006 4:01:27 PM #
What makes this story even more interesting is that PalmSource features this guy in one of their "Developer Success Story" articles. Apparently this success story isn't having a happy ending.
------------------------------- Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com RE: Developer rants at PalmOS
Superb piece. Nice find, Surur!
As a mere user with NO aspirations or skillz to be a developer/coder, I can still sympathize with the guy as a LOT of the headaches he alludes to (the miserable transition from T|T style 1-handed navigation to Treo/Handspring style) are felt/burdeoned mere users such as myself. It just sickens me to see the sorry state of the POS software market. You have a handful of legacy apps not updated since '02 or '03 (ie for the T|T) then others that run acceptably well on T5/TX but poorly on all older models. Right now the handheld industry suffers from the worst backwards compatability of any major platform that claims compatability. Ie: You can, with enough effort, get most older DOS or Win 3.1 titles to run reasonably well under XP if you REALLY need it. A GameBoy Advance can still run classic GameBoy titles from 1989. A new PS2 slimline can run PS1 titles from 1995. Only the Palm & Mac platforms seem so impossibly broken--and at least Apple had the good sense to throw out legacy compatability in the name of the future/speed/stability under OS X. Palm's just drifting in circles and losing pieces of the ship everytime a wave hits it. RE: Developer rants at PalmOSbudrowilson @ 1/11/2006 4:38:24 PM #
Amen, Surur.
I'm not a developer. I've been using one Palm or another ever since the Palm IIIxe. I've done my best to keep up with the advancements in the Palm community while squeezing out every ounce of functionality I could get out of the devices. It was not until I read your post in its entirety that I realized how difficult it was to develop and support applications for the OS. With all the pompous and bone-headed things Palm has done in recent years, it's no wonder they've been losing so much ground to PocketPC devices. I, for one, appreciate your input and reflection on the monumental obstacles that developers face. Speaking from a consumer's standpoint, we really appreciate the hard work you guys put into doing what you do. I now know it's no easy task. RE: Developer rants at PalmOSFoo Fighter @ 1/11/2006 4:51:05 PM #
> "I, for one, appreciate your input and reflection on the monumental obstacles that developers face. Speaking from a consumer's standpoint, we really appreciate the hard work you guys put into doing what you do. I now know it's no easy task."
Surur didn't write the article...he simply posted it here. The article was written by Jeff Mitchel, developer of ShadowPlans. RE: Developer rants at PalmOSbudrowilson @ 1/11/2006 5:38:10 PM #
Fine, then I appreciate *his* reflection. :-)
RE: Developer rants at PalmOS
Its an interesting article, and really should make one appreciate the quality of software available on the POS platform, many which (such as chatter) which are completely unavailable anywhere else. As he however mentions in the next article, developers are at a cross road, and have to decide whether to extend their reach or not. People like the chattermail developer Marc Blank has decided not to (http://www.chatteremail.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=71&page=viewtopic&t=2169&highlight=windows+mobile ), whereas Jeff Mitchel definitely appears to be wavering. The danger is that these developers may move, take their loyal users with them and reduce the barrier to moving to another platform. They may also find the environment easier and become more productive, and produce better products on WM than on POS. As Jeff says, he finds it a chore to develop on POS. He may be a lot happier on WM. Surur I told you so...The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/11/2006 10:12:05 PM #
Nice to see Jeff has the cojones (or was he drunk when he posted this? ;-O) to put in print some of the major PalmOS platform problems I've been talking about over the years. He actually left out a LOT of other details - probably in the interest of avoiding burning too many bridges and also more severely undermining the platform.
A few points: The "DataMangler" bugs he mentioned are overwhelming evidence of Palm's arrogance and COMPLETE disregard for developers. To produce a near-useless extension of the PIM, offer an INCREDIBLY buggy patch (probably coded by a couple of summer interns!) to maintain compatibility with the third party apps that are essential to millions of users and not even document what is being done is astounding. As I've said before, I'm surprised that people like DateBk5's brilliant developer, CES Dewar didn't end up saying "FCUK THIS!" and defect to coding for Windows Mobile. Dewar codes what - in my opinion - is the single most useful, complex and thoughtfully-designed app there is for the PalmOS platform. Palm's incompetence broke his app, wasted hundreds of hours of Dewar's time (to deal with support issues, REVERSE ENGINEERING the DataMangler offal, and then trying to come up with workarounds), and Palm won't even accept responsibility for their mistakes. Of course, PalmSource is too feeble to enforce code compatibility/stability, so the platform lacks a standards-bearer. Despite Beersy's lies to the contrary, PODS (Palm OS Developer Suite) is crap compared to CodeWarrior. How can a legitimate platform allow its primary development environment to be DISCONTINUED??? Here's a little twist that many here might not know: MetroWerks (the company producing CodeWarrior) was bought by Nokia in 2004! Yes, the same Nokia that is one of Palm's major competitors. HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO????????? W T F is going on? No conflict of interest there, right? Someone should get Ben Combee drunk and record what he has to say about how the whole MetroWerks deal went down... [By the way, anyone know what ever happened with MobileWizardry's SHARK? Did the Liberty virus destroy all the base code? ;-O] I still don't understand the lack of Java support - new devices have the horsepower to make it work reasonably well. And I doubt SuperWaba will ever take off. Bottom line: if you want a slick, multifaceted PalmOS app, you're pretty much gonna have to code it from the ground up (unless you're a PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPER like me and know your way around PDAToolbox ;-O). Look at all the hacking and workarounds people like CES Dewar, David Kendall, Marc Blank, Jeff Mitchell, the late Bozidar Benc etc have been forced to perform over the years. Ridiculous. Nice to see Jeff back me up on the Cobalt Catastrophe. I was the only one here that kept saying what a load of crap PalmSource was feeding the community about Cobalt, but instead of honesty, we got more lies, SPIN and B.S. from people like Michael Mace and Dianne Hackborn. "In the core technology, there are many things in 6.1 that are on par with XP or Mac OS X or even what Microsoft plans for Avalon." "While it is certainly true that what we could get in to 6.0 was greatly limited by the schedule, that in no way means that 6.0 (or really 6.0.1) was not a "usable" a release." "I'm sorry for the confusion. I don't know how you got the message that Palm OS Garnet was for smartphones and Palm OS Cobalt was for other types of devices, but it means we did something wrong in our communication." >>>"Mace added that if cellular carriers and manufacturers test PalmSource to unveil smart-phone software "Michael Mace @ 9/28/2004 3:35:21 AM # Actually, those Palm Powered phones in development use a mix of Palm OS Garnet and Palm OS Cobalt. Mike
"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!" "My feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all" "God will roast their stomachs in hell at the hands of Iraqis."
TVoR
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 Death by 1000 papercuts. Cobalt Fung-Fu is WEAK.The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 12:05:03 AM #
Its an interesting article, and really should make one appreciate the quality of software available on the POS platform, many which (such as chatter) which are completely unavailable anywhere else. As he however mentions in the next article, developers are at a cross road, and have to decide whether to extend their reach or not.
Were it not for the fact that I'm very satisfied with my CLIEs, the only thing preventing me from switching to the superior hardware of Windows Mobile would have been waiting for DateBk5 to be ported to Windows Mobile. At this stage, almost EVERY app category has Windows Mobile apps that are as good as - if not better than - the PalmOS equivalents. Even the "issues" I have with the Windows Mobile UI can be lessened with utilities like Wisbar. Opera or NetFront, Pocket Informant, Wisbar, TextMaker, The Core Pocket Media Player, ListPro, Pocket Artist, Skype, CalliGrapher or PenReader, CoPilot Live, Pocket Quicken, RepliGo, Resco Explorer 2003, Nyditot Virtual Display... the list of high quality Windows Mobile software grows longer every day. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7990#110066 In the past two years the number of former PalmOS only developers now offering PPC/Windows Mobile versions of their software has skyrocketed. As development for PalmOS becomes more difficult and the numbers of PalmOS users declines, I expect to see many developers actually either scale back (less updates) or DUMP their PalmOS versions. Welcome to the real world, Neo. Now that StyleTap Platform is out, I really wonder why people are still buying PalmOS devices (besides the Treo)... TVoR
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Developer rants at PalmOS
TVoR wrote:
Despite Beersy's lies to the contrary, PODS (Palm OS Developer Suite) is crap compared to CodeWarrior. Not sure where you're getting that. I've always been pretty much onboard with the consensus among Palm developers that PODS, while greatly improved and fairly serviceable, still can't hold a candle to CodeWarrior. It's really more a weakness of the Eclipse C Development Toolkit than of any work or lack of work on the part of PalmSource, but the fact remains that Eclipse is a fabulous Java development environment and fair to poor as a C environment. How can a legitimate platform allow its primary development environment to be DISCONTINUED??? Also wrong. You can still buy it from Metrowerks: http://tinyurl.com/e25cz Here's a little twist that many here might not know: MetroWerks (the company producing CodeWarrior) was bought by Nokia in 2004! Wrong yet again! (http://press.nokia.com/PR/200409/960082_5.html) Nokia bought some Symbian OS development tools from Metrowerks, but Metrowerks is owned by Freescale Semiconductor, as you can readily see when you buy a copy of CodeWarrior for Palm OS from the link above. [By the way, anyone know what ever happened with MobileWizardry's SHARK? Did the Liberty virus destroy all the base code? ;-O] Still available to those who want to license it. Last I checked it was mostly good for developing cross-platform games, but IIRC Aaron Ardiri told me his company uses it internally for some medical applications they've been developing. I still don't understand the lack of Java support - new devices have the horsepower to make it work reasonably well. And I doubt SuperWaba will ever take off. I understand it: PalmSource didn't have the resources to focus on Java when they were hurrying to get first Cobalt, then Palm OS for Linux out the door. But I agree that it's a terrible shame. Eclipse Foundation is doing some very interesting stuff with Java for mobile devices these days but because PalmSource has substantially backed away from their previous collaborations on Java with IBM Palm OS will not be supported: mainly Windows Mobile, Symbian, and (I think) Motorola's Linux phone platform. As for SuperWaba, it's pretty darned good these days what with an ARM native VM for Palm OS. We use it for most of our clients now. I see some pretty big things for SuperWaba within the next year. Beersy: Do you ever get tired of spewing so much B.S.?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 9:20:54 PM #
TVoR wrote:
"Despite Beersy's lies to the contrary, PODS (Palm OS Developer Suite) is crap compared to CodeWarrior." Beersy replied: But Beersy seems to have amnesia regarding this thread from June, 2005:
Just one developer's opinion. Probably not one you were interested in hearing, either, alas! http://www.allaboutpalm.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127&postcount=35 http://www.allaboutpalm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44&page=4&pp=10 NICE TRY, Beersy! >>>How can a legitimate platform allow its primary development environment to be DISCONTINUED??? Also wrong. You can still buy it from Metrowerks: http://tinyurl.com/e25cz Interesting. When I looked into buying CodeWarrior last year it was unavailable and listed as discontinued by MetroWerks. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7875#108499 The new website list of "discontinued" products is quite a bit different: http://www.metrowerks.com/Discontinued/default.htm W T F???
Wrong yet again! (http://press.nokia.com/PR/200409/960082_5.html) Nokia bought some Symbian OS development tools from Metrowerks, but Metrowerks is owned by Freescale Semiconductor, as you can readily see when you buy a copy of CodeWarrior for Palm OS from the link above. Looks like you might be right in this case, Beersy. (Of course, even a stopped clock tells the right time at least once a day...) According to the press release you liked to, "Metrowerks is an independent subsidiary of Freescale Semiconductor" and "Under the terms of the agreement, Metrowerks plans, upon closing of the agreement, to license its core technologies, including its debugger, compiler and award winning CodeWarrior(TM) Integrated Development Environment to Nokia, and certain extensions to that core technology related to the Symbian OS will be transferred to Nokia." After hearing about the deal and seeing MetroWerks then quickly discontinue most of their CodeWarrior software, it seemed likely that Nokia had obtained the full rights to CodeWarrior - not just the Symbian environment. MetroWerks was less than clear about what was happening and most people I spoke to about this also felt CodeWarrior was going completely to Nokia. Very strange... http://www.idevgames.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-9853.html >>>I still don't understand the lack of Java support - new I understand it: PalmSource didn't have the resources to focus on Java when they were hurrying to get first Cobalt, then Palm OS for Linux out the door. But I agree that it's a terrible shame. Eclipse Foundation is doing some very interesting stuff with Java for mobile devices these days but because PalmSource has substantially backed away from their previous collaborations on Java with IBM Palm OS will not be supported: mainly Windows Mobile, Symbian, and (I think) Motorola's Linux phone platform. As for SuperWaba, it's pretty darned good these days what with an ARM native VM for Palm OS. We use it for most of our clients now. I see some pretty big things for SuperWaba within the next year. "didn't have the resources to focus on Java"??? Please. How much effort would it take to properly support Java in PalmOS? Most of the work has been/would have been done for PalmSource. PalmOS with a robust Java environment would be a he11 of a lot more appealing. Let's cut the B.S. and say it like it is, Beersy: PALM/PALMSOURCE NEVER HAD A COHERENT STRATEGY FOR PALMOS. PERIOD.
The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 Edit:The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/12/2006 11:33:04 PM #
PalmOS with a robust Java environment would be a he11 of a lot more appealing to business customers.
------------------------ Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Developer rants at PalmOSPenguinPowered @ 1/13/2006 2:57:58 AM #
Java is, relative to the amount of storage on a typical PalmOS device, huge. Especially if you take one of the pc/workstation implementations and do a straightforward port of it.
Java is, relative to the amount of processing power on a typical PalmOS device, slow. Especially if you take one of the pc/workstation implemenations and do a straightfoward port of it. ARM has more or less conceded that the existing ARM platforms suck for Java, with their introduction of Jazelle. Jazelle will, eventually, be great for embedded Java, but it is not in the processors currently being used by Access' customers. Not having Jazelle on ARM means having to spend huge amounts of resources on optimizing technology for Java, and still getting slow performance. Other companies have made Java work on ARM, in some cases very well. PalmSource opted to concentrate on other areas. By the way, when I want to be reminded of the bad old days when computers weren't fast enough to run the software, i just fire up Eclipse on a 4 processor 3ghz pentium system with a couple of GB of memory and watch the system slam to its knees.
RE: Developer rants at PalmOS
Coding for the Palm OS is a mess. And I'm not a low-level developer. I speak as a proponent of RAD tools. VS.NET 2005 is a very robust RAD tool. Handheld Basic ++ is the best RAD tool for the Palm OS that I've seen. But doing anything advanced requires delving into the APIs, and that's when you run into the various device incompatibilities. This is where the attrition of the Palm OS licensees could become a good thing, but only if Palm (previously palmOne) is interested in capitalizing on it. While the Treo 700w is selling for $400 right now, you can get a Treo 650 for as low as $100. Palm has the opportunity to make the Palm OS Treo a mass market item and own that market. They have the originators of the Palm OS on hand (Hawkins, et al), so they can re-create the Palm Economy back into its glory days. If they consolidate/standardize and add to the APIs, they could once again have a platform that would be extremely attractive to developers, both old and new.
http://Tapland.com - Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion - RE: TVoR rants at PalmOSThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 8:07:17 AM #
Java is, relative to the amount of storage on a typical PalmOS device, huge. Especially if you take one of the pc/workstation implementations and do a straightforward port of it.
Java is, relative to the amount of processing power on a typical PalmOS device, slow. Especially if you take one of the pc/workstation implemenations and do a straightfoward port of it. Weak excuses, Marty - even for you. Businesses typically need/want Java for using/recycling simple (often custom, in-house) applications. It's not like anyone's expecting to run Java versions of AutoCAD or Photoshop on a PalmOS PDA. A well-implemented Java framework in PalmOS could have been used as a selling point to businesses. But PalmSource blew this opportunity to make inroads with enterprise customers just like they blew the advantage they had as a wireless email solution 3 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Palm/PalmSource has been infiltrated by Microsoft saboteurs all along... ;-O Other companies have made Java work on ARM, in some cases very well. PalmSource opted to concentrate on other areas. Looks like PalmSource made (yet another) massive miscalculation. TVoR The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 Palm is not PalmSource. At least not NOWThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 8:29:02 AM #
If they consolidate/standardize and add to the APIs, they could once again have a platform that would be extremely attractive to developers, both old and new.
Ummmmmm... how do you propose Palm (the HARDWARE company, a PalmSource licensee) consolidate/standardize and add to the APIs? Things will be simplified soon enough as developers cut support for HandEra and TapWave. The large number of CLIEs still in use probably dictates that developers will still have to support CLIE features. But now that the numbers of older PalmOS devices in service is declining, developers will be increasingly able to "require" PalmOS 5 for their apps. Of course you're ignoring the fact that PalmOS 5 is a DEAD END OS. It was a transitional OS supposed to have been EOL in 2003. Developers are supposed to soon have to be moving on to PalmLinux and a whole new set of headaches... TVoR The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 Beersy: Can't hear you, BubbaThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 11:15:09 AM #
You should at least have the decency to apologize publicly for trying to spread all your B.S.
------------------------ Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted. ------------------------ The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 Hah!
So you make up crap about how CodeWarrior is discontinued and that Nokia has bought out Metrowerks and I'm supposed to apologize? Do you really have no idea how stupid posts like this make you look? It's time to go crawl back in your hole with your pile of discontinued Clies since you seem unable to get anything right these days.
As for the development environment discussion, I do most of my Palm OS development with Eclipse these days--but not PODS. I use the Eclipse JDT and the SuperWaba SDK, which *is* vastly more productive than CodeWarrior for Palm OS. The latest release of SuperWaba enables my apps to run cross-platform on Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Symbian UIQ, Series 60, Linux, Win32 desktop, and now Sony PSP with a single code base. Unlike Java ME (formerly J2ME) I can distribute the VM with my app for free. It's written in 100% native ARM, it's open source, it has a much richer GUI than eith Java ME *or* the Palm OS Form Manager, and in my opinion it completely shatters the myth that Java is too big or too slow to run on a Palm OS device. RE: Developer rants at PalmOSFoo Fighter @ 1/14/2006 12:37:51 PM #
> "Of course you're ignoring the fact that PalmOS 5 is a DEAD END OS. It was a transitional OS supposed to have been EOL in 2003. "
Bingo. But what I don't understand is why some people act as though PalmLinux is already here or coming very soon, with Garnet having passed into history. I just read Ed Hardy's piece on the bank website and was baffled why he believes "our problems will soon be over." PalmLinux won't turn Gold code until late spring/summer at the earliest. Ed and Shawn Barnett both seem to believe we're going to see devices based on the new software in October? That is crazy! Given that completely irrational (and unprecedented) timeline, Palm would have to release (or should I say RUSH) new hardware just 2-3 months after PalmLinux release. Ridiculous. New hardware won't arrive until well into 2007. To believe that we're going to see PalmLinux in shipping devices this year is simply irrational exuberance. Even Palm's Ken Wirt publicly stated it would be a year beyond PalmLinux's release before his company ships hardware based on the new platform. This is not the PC market, folks. The only new Operating System shipping this year will be Windows Vista, and that's not going to fit on your Palm. Enjoying eating your crow, Beersy?The_Voice_of_Reason @ 1/14/2006 12:37:57 PM #
Don't choke on the bones, Bubba.
In case you can't read, CW was listed as discontinued by MetroWerks themselves last year. Don't let a little FACT like that get in the way of you spewing more B.S.
What limitations have you come across using SuperWaba? How much bigger are files compared to a native Palm app? Load times, etc, etc? So SuperWaba also runs on PSP? Impressive. TVoR The Palm eCONomy = Communism™ The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038 NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823 RE: Developer rants at PalmOSPenguinPowered @ 1/14/2006 12:48:31 PM #
Businesses typically need/want Java for using/recycling simple (often custom, in-house) applications. You seem, once again, to have forgotten that PalmSource is trying to be a player in the telephony space, where it is the carrier, and not some imaginary business desire, that decides content. It's not like anyone's expecting to run Java versions of AutoCAD or Photoshop on a PalmOS PDA. Java itself, in the form of the JVM, is memory intensive. Your "simple" application typically requires an extra couple of megabytes just for that. Typical performance slowdown of Java over C is 10 to 100 times. 2mb per application extra and a factor of 10x slow down is not something that users will tolerate for a tiny advantage that they don't directly experience anyway. Throw in the fact that PalmOS has to restart an application from scratch every time you switch to it, which incurs the huge Java startup penalty in the startup path so application switching slows down. Season with the fact that "simple" aps are the ones least likely to benefit from Java, because the structural overhead of OO languages don't produce benefits until programs become larger. Recall that Java is the "write once, debug everywhere" language. It's a no brainer that a company like PalmSource would be forced to concentrate on its legacy and not spend resources on Java. Access may well have different priorities. We'll have to wa |
In our annual year in review article, PalmInfocenter takes a look at all of the major events that took place in the Palm OS world in 2005. It was certainly an exciting year full of surprise announcements and major transitions. Treo smartphones really began to take off, a lot of innovative devices were released and many surprises and new directions within the Palm economy took shape. Read on for the full recap.
Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present