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Comments on: Rumor: Possible Images of the Treo 700p

updated A possible image of the next Palm OS Treo has been posted in the forums at TreoCentral. The image is what the poster claims is the Palm Treo 700p. The Treo pictured has the same basic form factor as the 700w with Sprint's new branding.
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:-)

legodude522 @ 2/3/2006 7:38:30 PM # Q
I want this baby. This is so hard to decide! My 2-year contract with Cingular expires in March. But I just sold my Zire 72 so I can get a Sharp Zaurus. Now I gotta wait for this sexy thing to come out :-D

Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present
Reply to this comment

I'm not convinced

Admin @ 2/3/2006 7:46:42 PM # Q
I have a lot of doubts about this image, and at this point I think it's a photoshop job until more pictures come out.

- When you zoom in on the image, there are deliberate blur spots around the sprint logo, and it seems likely it was pasted in

- It really doesn't make sense that palm would change the home/menu button layout that works so well on the 650. And why would they move the home key to the far right where End used to be? It doesn't make sense.

- The poster claims the menu button has been moved to where the right shift key it, like on the treo 600, yet he deliberately cropped the bottom part out of this image.

- The posted has blacked out what you would think to be a serial number, but it doesn't look like there is anything written below there. Also, on just about every leaked image that that turned out to be true, the serial number was on the top center of the device.

- This isn't hard to fake at all and there has been a lot of hoaxes going on at TreoCentral lately... and guy that started the 800p thread had admitted it was a fabrication.

-Ryan

RE: I'm not convinced
Surur @ 2/3/2006 7:54:13 PM # Q
It has to be real. 2 major hoaxes in one week would completely kill the credibility of TreoCentral. They will never live it down.

Its also exactly what I expect the Treo 700p to be, and shadowmite appears to be convinced.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

RE: I'm not convinced
Admin @ 2/3/2006 7:57:49 PM # Q
Though it has provided some correct rumors in the past, it's a public forum, there is no credibility to begin with.
RE: I'm not convinced
legodude522 @ 2/3/2006 9:01:58 PM # Q
I'm just happy there is hope, :-) Unless LiveFaith has something to do with this one...?

From the charging light, it looks like a PhotoShop. I have seen fake charging lights before. It's a dead giveaway and way would Palm make it that shape and there?

Palm m125 December 25, 2002 to March 24 2004 > palmOne Zire 71 March 24, 2004 to March 31, 2005. Tapwave Zodiac 1 April 18, 2005 to November 2, 2005 > palmOne Zire 72 November 2, 2005 to present

RE: I'm not convinced
gfunkmagic @ 2/3/2006 9:15:08 PM # Q
>>>>nd guy that started the 800p thread had admitted it was a fabrication.

Ryan, that user was also banned as a result as well (by me personally btw).

I also agree that all such rumors should be viewed with skepticism. I would be disappointed if the home/menu button layout were to be moved back to the bottum of the thumbboard.

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: I'm not convinced
Admin @ 2/3/2006 9:56:02 PM # Q
I've seen the higher res version of the picture now and I'm a little less skeptical. The blurriness around the sprint logo isn't as bad/noticable there, but I'm still not sure.

BTW - take a look at this photo from last year, of what was most likely a pre-production 700p. It has the same home/menu key arrangement as the 650.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/ss.asp?f=mTreo1_L.jpg

RE: I'm not convinced
AdamaDBrown @ 2/3/2006 10:12:29 PM # Q
My concerns, on a preliminary inspection, center more around the button configuration. You can clearly see on the d-pad and the two inner buttons where the blue backlighting is shining through, but the same effect doesn't seem to be present to the same extent on the two outer buttons. Also, it doesn't seem quite right that the battery icon is sort of truncated there on the screen, being so far off to the right.

Re: the prototype photos, you're correct, but notice that they changed the arrangement for the 700w between prototype and final production.

RE: I'm not convinced
gfunkmagic @ 2/4/2006 3:28:53 AM # Q
Ryan, I can confirm that those pics are real now. Working with shadowmite, the original post Merlyn was able to dump the entire Rom off the 700p and send it to shadowmite who able to confirm the new rom! It pretty crazy, but these guys are gonna hack the 700p even before it gets released!!!

Also, here some interesting facts so far as per reported over on shadowmite irc chat. Note all info below was posted in the chat:

-312 MHz Xscale CPU
-Palm OS 5.4.9
-BT spec unverifiable, BT 1.2? not sure
-1.3MP camera
-320x320 screen
-FAT32 driver support
-EVDO radio
-can receive call while on 1xEvDo, but cannot call and browse at the same time (limitation of 1xEvDo)
-new web like picture album interface, new facelift for alblum and pic apps
-menu key moved to bottom left shift spot
-was able to make receive call via Scala 500 BT headset
-flashing asterix replaced b little golden bell icon
-green button is talk button, phone button for contacts
-new "fast mode" in blazer
-No WiFi drivers installed and no ability to test a WiFi SD card
-HUGE NEW DBCACH SIZE!! >> 10MB!!!!

Meminfo results:
Flash total size: 64,336
Flash free minus couple apps installed: 54,172
NVFS dbCache size: 18,431
Dynamic heap: 10,240

AFAIK, this will be the first NVFS device with more than 10MB dbcache!

Anyhow, that's a brief synopsis...

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: I'm not convinced
palmdoc88 @ 2/4/2006 8:21:14 AM # Q
I sure hope Wifi is supported!

T3 & T5 user
RE: I'm not convinced
hawkspy @ 2/4/2006 9:03:46 AM # Q
I am convinced - no WiFi - again - it must be the real deal.

Where do We Go Nowwwwwww?!

- Sir Axl de Rose, 1986

RE: I'm not convinced
hawkspy @ 2/4/2006 9:11:05 AM # Q
..and 12 months plus on...no processor upgrade...sounds like the Treo 650 again - very few differences.

Where do We Go Nowwwwwww?!

- Sir Axl de Rose, 1986

RE: I'm not convinced
palmato @ 2/4/2006 9:27:27 AM # Q
> Meminfo results:
> Flash total size: 64,336
> Flash free minus couple apps installed: 54,172
> NVFS dbCache size: 18,431
>Dynamic heap: 10,240

> AFAIK, this will be the first NVFS device with more than 10MB dbcache!

This is interesting, if true of course.
Unlike its nvfs predecessors, the TX is thought to store the OS on a strata flash chip (nor flash) but still copies the image into the ram cache. The new Treo seems to have dropped that step and uses the whole ram for cache and program heap. That may be the blueprint for the next devices, namely the LD2.
Also, we may see a TX update along that line, though the odds are small.


--------------------------
Waiting for a TT successor

RE: I'm not convinced
Gekko @ 2/4/2006 10:04:32 AM # Q
>HUGE NEW DBCACH SIZE!! >> 10MB!!!!

all our bitching may have finally sunk in. the bastards are finally listening?

>menu key moved to bottom left shift spot

i'm not sure i like this new button config!!! the menu button location on the 650 is very intuitive and moving it to teh shift key seems to suck. but i'll have to try it.

>Sprint

my guess is that this bitch won't hit Verizon until March 2007 if ever.

>No WIFI

I bet they have a $150 WIFI Card to sell you.



RE: I'm not convinced
LiveFaith @ 2/4/2006 10:05:12 AM # Q
** - When you zoom in on the image, there are deliberate blur spots around the sprint logo, and it seems likely it was pasted in **

Ed,
This is a normally occurs with .JPGs where a consistent surface is interrupted by a "logo" for example. Even untouched images have this issue. It may be a hack job, but I would not let that sway me.

I really don't know, but I have a friend that uses Photoshop. :-D

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: I'm not convinced
Gekko @ 2/4/2006 10:10:48 AM # Q

Reverend - shouldn't you be busy preparing Sunday's sermon? Or do you just "wing it"?



RE: I'm not convinced
Scott R @ 2/4/2006 10:28:56 AM # Q
The fact that they moved the buttons around actually helps to prove the authenticity of it. Any user would know better not to do that. Only Palm, now that Hawkins has been MIA for a while, would do something as stupid as that.

It looks like we have a multi-pronged attack on the Palm OS. First palmOne buys the Palm name, then they release a WM5 device with some usability improvements, then they release a new Palm OS Treo with worse usability. Beautiful!

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: I'm not convinced
Gekko @ 2/4/2006 11:12:26 AM # Q

Rev - I forgot to tell you - I was watching a news broadcast on this preacher who got punched and they showed the preacher on stage preaching and he uses a Treo 650 on stage in front of thousands of people and actually reads bible passages from it! I was shocked. I hope he has the ringer turned off!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,176530,00.html



RE: I'm not convinced
Admin @ 2/4/2006 1:15:05 PM # Q
If this is the final button arrangement I'm shocked, that was the main thing that had me thinking this wasn't real. Then again I don't know what they were thinking when they removed the home icon from the TX status bar.
RE: I'm not convinced
Gekko @ 2/4/2006 1:51:14 PM # Q

i think the Treo 650's button configuration is near perfect. not to mention the fact that millions of us are used to it. but who knows? maybe the new config is better and more intuitive once you use it? I was pro-Graffiti and anti-Thumboard prior to getting my Treo 650. But NOW, I realize that the Thumboard is the BEST PART!!!!!!!!!



RE: I'm not convinced
Simony @ 2/5/2006 1:38:56 AM # Q
Ryan, you have a point, but one advantage of this configuration is that it MIGHT allow up to four hard buttons to be used to launch apps (ie, assuming that the 'home' key can be reset). When I was using my Treo 650, one of the most annoying things IMHO was that it only had two hard buttons (leaving aside the alternative launch commands) for launching apps. It drove me nuts having to go to Phone and then 'favourites' or to play hide and seek in the Applications launcher, just to access basic apps. Anyway, let's wait and see if this thing is for real.

(I notice Foo_Fighter hasn't contributed to this thread - he's usually one of the first to find out about new devices - waiting to see what his verdict is on this rumour.)

RE: I'm not convinced
twrock @ 2/5/2006 1:47:41 AM # Q
...I don't know what they were thinking when they removed the home icon from the TX status bar.

Or what they were thinking when they decided not to let the user remap the hardware home button. (Thank goodness for ButtonsEx.)

"Where do you want to go today? Wherever we tell you; that's where."

It might not be the "mythical color HandEra", but I'm liking my TX anyway.

RE: I'm not convinced
potter @ 2/6/2006 10:11:18 AM # Q
Admin wrote @ 2/3/2006 7:46:42 PM #
I have a lot of doubts about this image, and I think it's a photoshop job.

- When you zoom in on the image, there are deliberate blur spots around the sprint logo, and it seems likely it was pasted in
When I zoom in on the Sprint logo, what I see is the standard JPEG compression noise. Any strong contrast/color change will have this kind of noise, whether faked or not. However, what does bother me is the neatness of the logo. The logo appears perfectly upright, where as the over all image has a slight skew to it. However, the skew is very small, and when viewed over such a small distance as the logo's height the skew may not be apparent. You said you have seen some higher resolution versions of these images. Does there appear to be any skew to the logo in the larger image?

RE: I'm not convinced
hkklife @ 2/6/2006 10:41:55 AM # Q
I seriously think the Treo could benefit from the addition of at least one additional hard button. Maybe mounted in an "oddball" place such as on the top panel or on the upper right side or something..but it DOES need it.

Why has Palm seen fit to monkey around so much with the hard button arrangement lately? Look how they broke so many legacy apps with the ridiculous experiment on the TX to move "home" to a hard button!

I stil say: 700W appears on Sprint later this summer. 700P remains a Sprint-exclusive with an unlocked GSM version possibly being released later this year. No more POS Treos on Verizon--the King of Carriers hath spoken!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: I'm not convinced
mtt @ 2/6/2006 10:43:06 AM # Q
My reaction on the new button placement, is that they designed the layout for the WinMob 700W, and want to use the same molds for the 700P. Cheaping out in my opinions, as the 650 layout is very good.

The upside will be having 4 hardware buttons to work with in the normal places, as long as the applications button is able to be overridden. Otherwise they should have put it down on the bottom also, similar to the 600.

Handspring Visor, Palm V, Treo 180, Treo 90, Treo 600
MTT

RE: I'm not convinced
hkklife @ 2/6/2006 10:59:11 AM # Q
But molds are indifferent if they are just remapping via software & changing the silkscreen printing of the buttons, right?

I think that it'll be an acceptable compromise if, as you say, the applications button can be customized. Otherwise, we might be facing a mini-debacle ala TX.

I'd really love to see a no holds barred interview with Hawkins and see what he has to say about the recent design blunders by Palm and the adoption of WinMob etc etc.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: I'm not convinced
LiveFaith @ 2/6/2006 11:25:58 AM # Q
** Reverend - shouldn't you be busy preparing Sunday's sermon? Or do you just "wing it"? **

Pleeease Gekko ... You shooda been there in the GlowRee!!! Yeah, I saw the vid of Billy Joe a few weeks ago. Gives a new meaning to "lay hands on no man suddenly" I think. :-o

But digressing back OnTopic: I was disappointed in the 700w form factor because it looked cludgy and corporate compared to the more flowing 650. That was until I got to handle one over at the VZW store the other day. I think I actually liked it better than the 650. ... then I saw the XV-6700 with the bigger screen and slide out keyboard and fell into tech-lust. Get HVGA and Palm OS on that and I'll be in line with a check this evening. Still milking my T3 + T637 waiting on the Treo with HVGA.


Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: I'm not convinced
KultiVator @ 2/6/2006 11:58:11 AM # Q
I'm another one still milking a T3 - though this time with a Nokia 6310i.

Would love a Treo with bigger form-factor, accomodating a HVGA screen and a 3G Radio. Could this be the raw plan for Hollywood?


KultiVator

RE: I'm not convinced
LiveFaith @ 2/6/2006 7:08:01 PM # Q
KultiVator,

If it is ... I'll sell Beanie Babies at the Flee Market to raise the funds.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: I'm not convinced
slinky @ 2/7/2006 4:44:18 PM # Q
Ryan -- see my current post here and the final version of the 700p may be only a month away. Perhaps my pretty obvious joke may be one event that caused the preproduction 700p to "fall off a truck" or the resulting "leak" of info without consequences. About 30 minutes ago I did get through the food chain to speak to a Sprint rep who allegedly has found a Sprint Treo 700p intranet page. This representation is absolutely bona fide. I am leaving shortly for an appointment and back in approximately 3 hours and glad to answer questions. CAVEAT: I am only repeating what was told to me and was not there to see it with my own eyes.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8358#118293

Reply to this comment

It's the real deal. You know it is. Is always is.

VampireLestat @ 2/4/2006 12:30:38 AM # Q
Every time I see a rumour photo come out, it usually is true.

That is the Treo 700p.

Now, where is our LifeDrive 2 photo?

RE: It's the real deal. You know it is. Is always is.
LiveFaith @ 2/4/2006 10:03:01 AM # Q
**Every time I see a rumour photo come out, it usually is true.**

I agree!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: It's the real deal. You know it is. Is always is.
Gekko @ 2/4/2006 10:08:18 AM # Q

the LifeDrive/Mobile Manager line was hopefully put out of its misery.



RE: It's the real deal. You know it is. Is always is.
medevilenemy @ 2/5/2006 12:32:29 PM # Q
oh stop that.

Reply to this comment

Stability?

Tuckermaclain @ 2/4/2006 10:31:13 AM # Q
Yes, I can see it now: I'm admiring my >10MB db cache while it performs yet another random hard reset. I (and I think there are lots like me) would rather have a less powerful phone if it meant more stability. BT 2.0(?) and high-speed downloads won't be worth much if it crashes like a Visor with a springboard memory module. My Sprint contract is up in July which should be long enough for all the Beta testers out there(at $600 a pop) to find out.

Visor DeLuxe->Vx->m500->m505->m515->T1->SJ33->Z71->T2->T3->Z72
->T5->650->Z72->TX

Reply to this comment

If this is real, I'm disappointed

freakout @ 2/4/2006 11:28:00 AM # Q
The button arrangement seems unrealistic. The 650 has a good, intuitive layout right now. Relegating the File button to the bottom of the keyboard is just silly; if you're using the phone one-handed, and if you're left-handed (like myself) then your thumbs will easily move up to hit the hard keys, but you have to reposition your entire hand in order to hit the bottom-left corner of the keyboard accurately. The File button is hit fairly often, so why make it more difficult to quickly manipulate?

Maybe I'm just too attached to the old ways...

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
joad @ 2/5/2006 2:18:22 PM # Q
Looking at the image posted on the Mexican site below, it appears that Palm actually listened to us and gave us back the 4th hardware button - they moved the "green" and "red" to the buttons that serve as "home" and "menu" on the 650.

I much preferred the dedicated "power" button on the top of the T600, as it rarely if ever turned on as "accidentally" as it does on the Treo 650. But if Palm is stuck designing it into front hardware buttons to appease the carriers, it might as well take up one of the more useless added buttons rather than a hardware button we've been able to configure for nearly 10 years.

Why they couldn't have just left the dedicated power button on top and allowed us to choose configuration of the 4th hardware button is beyond me. If they take away the "mute" button on top, THAT would be yet another step backwards - further proof Palm has forgotten how to test the basic "real world" usability of their devices.

Jeff Hawkins and his block of wood are probably rolling around in their grave. Oh yeah... he's still alive. Guess he's just rolling around in huge piles of money from cashing out... :)

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
joad @ 2/5/2006 2:30:02 PM # Q
"Relegating the File button to the bottom of the keyboard is just silly"

http://www.pdamexico.net/abe/imagenes/Treo-700p.jpg

In my ranting, I forgot to mention that the lower buttons on the T700p appear to have exactly the same functionality as teh T650 (except maybe the "find" has been moved somewhere else). One of the actual button arrangement improvements the 650 brought us was moving the "menu" button up where we can reach it without straining our thumbs.

With "Crackberry Repetitive Stress Syndrome" becoming a larger and larger issue, it would behoove Palm to focus very strongly on improving button ergonomics. If I have to see one more article full of posting by Palm apologists defending Palm getting caught up yet again in a class action suit for ignoring an problem obvious to the most basic user, I'm gonna toss my cookies.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
dagwud @ 2/5/2006 7:37:46 PM # Q
Regarding "old ways" and "repetitive stress syndrome", what I'd really like to see is the loss of the thumbboard. Remove the board, extend the screen and let those of us who are actually happy with grafitti to use it.

I've got long fingers, and my thumbs just don't "do" thumbboards. I'd rather use a stylus. Plus, my wife has an old Treo 90. I find that using the thumbboard makes doing what I want to do more complicated than it it is on my m515.

If they released a Treo 700p-nt (no thumbboard), I'd sell plasma to get the money to buy one if I had to.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???

For those wanting a 320 x 480 Treo without the keyboard:
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/5/2006 8:23:36 PM # Q
If they released a Treo 700p-nt (no thumbboard), I'd sell plasma to get the money to buy one if I had to.


Is this what you seek?

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg


No need to SELL your plasma, my son. Email me and perhaps we can arrange a deal that will be to our mutual satisfaction.


Alucard

Pat Horne and I invite you to "Be one of us!"

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

I'm not disappointed if this is LOWRIDER!
rcartwright @ 2/6/2006 12:46:04 AM # Q
From Shadowmite @ TreoCentral 2/4/2006 @ 4:27 pm

"Interesting, I'm not gonna say how we know this, but it appears merlyn3d has the actual pre-release "Ventura-Lowrider"!

Anyone other than Shadowmite, I would call this wishful BS. Considering the source, it sure puts a new spin on things if this is the "Stripped down" Treo.
Could "Hollywood" in fact be a GSM POS phone with some beefier specs?


"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
pascanu @ 2/6/2006 3:48:36 AM # Q
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/5/2006 8:23:36 PM #

>Is this what you seek?
>http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo800big.jpg

The only problem with that photoshoped treo is that TomTom does not support long/wide screens (320*480).


Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
pascanu @ 2/6/2006 3:53:11 AM # Q
rcartwright @ 2/6/2006 12:46:04 AM #

>From Shadowmite @ TreoCentral 2/4/2006 @ 4:27 pm
>"Interesting, I'm not gonna say how we know this, but it appears merlyn3d has the actual pre-release "Ventura-Lowrider"!

This would be too nice to be true! But it does make sense, if they want to release a new Treo for the European market. It has to be GSM 3G (not EVDO) and have 2 cameras (or a rotating camera, wich I doubt) for video calls.

Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
dagwud @ 2/6/2006 9:27:19 AM # Q
Is this what you seek?

Close enough for government work.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
LiveFaith @ 2/6/2006 11:38:05 AM # Q
Thank VR ... send all proceeds to my PayPal account @ showmethemoney@treo800g.biz!

Hey Palm, we've now got three buyers waiting in the wings. Sounds like it's time for the HVGA Treo! :-$


Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
maybepalm @ 2/6/2006 12:20:16 PM # Q
TomTom DOES support 320x480 - both landscape & portrait - works beautifully on my TX and has been since the T3 - What are you talking about?

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
pascanu @ 2/6/2006 12:29:45 PM # Q
I tryied it on a T3 and didn't work. Looks like I'm missing something...

Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650
RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
hkklife @ 2/6/2006 1:20:53 PM # Q
Are you running the latest (Dec '05) TomTom Palm version? I think it's 5.201. That fixed a LOT of the problems I was encountering on my TX.

So what is the concensus here on the 700p on TC? I say, again, that there will be four new Treos in '06:

700w CDMA
700W GSM
Lowrider (entry level FrankenGarnet) CDMA
Hollywood (slim, no antenna) GSM (possibly Europe-only )

IS the 700p the "Lowrider"? I doubt it, seeing as how the specs are decidedly better than the 700w in a few crucial areas (namely memory management & screen res). So that means there's either an actual 700p release imminent OR the TC saga has been one very elaborate hoax.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: TreoCentral Has No Credibility!
slinky @ 2/6/2006 3:54:53 PM # Q
Comment below about the 700p and my calls to Sprint and Palm. Note first gfunkmagic's claim about the 700p that just seemed to fall off a truck after an obvious joke, not a hoax, blew past his mind.

"Ryan, that user was also banned as a result as well (by me personally btw)."

TreoCentral has no credibility. As posted by sursur here in its entirety, anyone who successfully completed high school would have seen through the 800p joke, like virtually everyone here did.

GFUNKMAGIC AND TREOCENTRAL -- YOU HAVE ENGAGED IN LIBEL AND IN PUBLISHING BLATANT FALSE INFORMATION AND EXPOSING YOURSELF TO SIGNIFICANT LIABILITY.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=106038&page=1&pp=20

Your statement that I "admitted to lying" is not only blatantly false but is a disgrace to forum owners everywhere. You have so much egg on your face from being unable to restrain yourself from having "the scoop" that you are really showed the world you "banned" the user. Wowsa. Not that I couldn't open another acccount if I wanted to and you'd ever know or that I couldn't post anywhere like here with a more mature community. But I'd rather you and TreoCentral lose my current and future page views, the business I brought both personally and via others who will no longer patronize your store.

But now you've engaged in revising posts in your forums. How easy it is to bash a poster who can't defend himself and deal with your *outright lie*. Nobody is impressed except for a bunch of pre-teens a TreoCentral who want action against me because my post may have manipulated Palm's stock! It is SO FUNNY that people are laughing AT YOU. Let me say in closing that if your libelous statement above about my "admission" causes me damage in any way, I will go after you and TreoCentral. This went from a joke to potentially getting out of hand. Wipe the egg off your face and realize nobody cares. Least of all, the only people who should be embarassed are the "news reporters" who didn't even bother to read the article for the "sake of the scoop." It's the Internet. Anyone who believes blatantly unsubstantiated information is either a buffoon or is a buffon. Now apologize, un-edit your postings, quit posting here about me and your "honor" and let's move on like mature people before this joke becomes trouble. I don't care to have any arguments here.

Now let's get back to the business at hand -- is the 700p real? My posts about applying the full court press at higher corporate levels at Sprint and Palm, especially after selling the 650 days earlier, were absolutely true. They've been ducking calls about the conference and understandably so. Now how funny it is that suddently just after the frenzy of calling at Sprint and Palm for the 800p, some 700p drops off a trailer, onto Craigs List and somehow works, the ESN is usable, yet none of us have any real DETAILS about what any idiot would ask. The whole story is fishy but the timing and appearance of this new phone may not be coincidental. Regardless it's ALL SPECULATION and let us NOT forget that, lest everybody get banned forever.

I'll keep people here posted if any of my corporate leads can yank something definite out of the big corporate machine.

If this *is* Lowrider...
freakout @ 2/6/2006 4:18:30 PM # Q
..it would be hilarious, because it would be roughly on a par (spec-wise) with the 700w.

From the treocentral boards:
Shadowmite:
"Well, it's possible that this device he has simply shares software with the lowrider, but there is a file in the 650 which identifies it as a 650. With the device merlyn3d has, that file identifies it as a lowrider...

What this means entirely I could not say. But if this is a sign of the "least" offering, I can't wait to see the hollywood. Another possibility, this is the lowrider, and the gsm variant will be hollywood... I dunno."

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
joad @ 2/6/2006 4:20:09 PM # Q
>"Remove the board, extend the screen and let those of us who are >actually happy with grafitti to use it."

AMEN, brother!!!!

But if we're stuck with the keyboards, they should make them as ergonomic and accurate as possible (the loss of Graffiti cut my WPM in half, and my thumbs hurt like hell on longer writing). Hopefully Graffiti Anywhere will someday support punctuation (without that it's nearly useless).

And we can hope against hope that Palm will someday settle issues with Xerox so we can once again have an "official" Graffiti ONE library available without a bunch of hacking into the ROM. It really sucks that the only redeeming feature of the Pocket PC is that they still have "Block Recognition" (Graffiti 1).

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
freakout @ 2/6/2006 4:21:57 PM # Q
And then there's this:

Merlyn3d:
"I don't know what everyone is talking about, there is no lowrider file. Nothing was taken off the device. Any post that says there was is just idle speculation."

Shadowmite:
"Merlyn is a little unhappy about some things today, and seems to not mind placing me in a lie. I will only say I have no want to get him in further trouble and will stay out of this now."

Merlyn3d:
"By no means do I want to put the credibility of shadowmite in question, he's a great guy, and very helpful. The only other thing I'm going to say for now is that the unit I had is back in Palm's possession. I haven't been threatened with any legal action, nor do I want to be."

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
hkklife @ 2/6/2006 4:52:04 PM # Q
Joad;

My sentiments exactly. However, in the ENDLESS effort of Palm to do whatever possible to discourage/admonish its customers for being LOYAL (much like, incidently, the cellular carriers) they will continue to change button layouts/input methods/accessory connectors etc.

Xerox could offer to settle for $100 and Palm would rebuke them because they feel that G1 is yesterday's news and G2 offers a "better user experience".

Hawkins COULDN'T BE BOTHERED anymore either. It will take the skillz of an elite hacker to put a flawless version of G1 libraries onto the new devices to make Palm wake up and offer a LEGITIMATE alternative. And please, no one had better dare chime in and suggest the abomination that is TeamScript as a viable alternative.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
Scott R @ 2/6/2006 5:53:16 PM # Q
"Let me say in closing that if your libelous statement above about my "admission" causes me damage in any way, I will go after you and TreoCentral."

Yeah, I can imagine all of the damage it might cause. Here's a tip: If you're applying for a job, just don't write "slinky" at the top of your resume, and I don't think you'll need to worry about this coming back to bite you.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: :-(lol) what gives scoop value?
e_tellurian @ 2/6/2006 6:31:59 PM # Q
Who shares in the scoop value? Do the people that create something to scoop get to share in every single scoop?

It seems "scoop" has become an industry. Who pays for this industry?

True nothing is free just people forget that some people pay dearly for "scoop".

Now i know why people like ice cream.

Peace,

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
ILOVEDESSERT @ 2/6/2006 8:30:38 PM # Q
Hiy ou stated the word......"joke". I would only had been funny if you stated it was a parody from the start, otherwise it isn't FUNNY AT ALL! take care, Jay

The Treocentral's moderators are MORONS
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/6/2006 11:02:01 PM # Q
TreoCentral has no credibility. As posted by sursur here in its entirety, anyone who successfully completed high school would have seen through the 800p joke, like virtually everyone here did.

If the Treocentral Kiddies had any scruples (or brains) they'd simply admit they made a (HUGE) mistake and failed to see the satire, apologize to "slinky" and move on. If they're trying to whitewash this debacle and pretend they didn't get played for FOOLS, they're destroying any shreds of credibility they might still have left.

GFUNKMAGIC AND TREOCENTRAL -- YOU HAVE ENGAGED IN LIBEL AND IN PUBLISHING BLATANT FALSE INFORMATION AND EXPOSING YOURSELF TO SIGNIFICANT LIABILITY.

Come on now, slinky. Don't sink to their level by spewing even more nonsense!

Treocentral's Kiddies got p0wN3d and they can't handle the shame. Too bad. Bwahahaha!


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
slinky @ 2/6/2006 11:51:58 PM # Q
I agree TVOR. My desire is just not to have gFlunkFace have any of his mindless minions retaliating, e.g. creating dod attacks, etc. as if they are "doing something for the cause." I want it to end quickly and move on. If reason, sanity and maturity don't work, at least this will hopefully get there. The moment he says he's sorry, he overreacted and restores the peace, I'm completely cool with that. Thanks. ~Slinky

RE: The Treocentral's moderators are MORONS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2006 6:24:50 AM # Q
Yes, there are (or, perhaps, were) a couple "moderators" there who had no problem making up stories about those who could not respond. I finally told one of them off and, strangely, got banned. He turned around and then started saying I had multiple IDs, etc - lol! (one's enuf, thank you!):

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=485044&postcount=16

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=492646&postcount=27

I complained (jokingly and repeatedly) direct to the owners but they didn't delete HIS false posts.

Though the navigation of PalmInfocenter's discussions (or is that "article comments"?) is not as nice as TreoCentral's, I find the content more useful, in general.

Treocentral Mods v Slinky
rcartwright @ 2/7/2006 1:12:01 PM # Q
I find it interesting that Slinky is still trying to parly his "hey it was a joke" when he kept posting teasers that were quite serious in tone. Some people would just accept the consquences and move on. Others would continue to whine and whine.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
slinky @ 2/7/2006 2:08:13 PM # Q
rcarwright -- Did you read anything or are you like all the other "news sites" that just impatiently grabbed stats and conveniently ignored the obvious facts in front of you? As I said clearly at TC, I didn't tease anyone. I only first replied over 80 posts and 15 hours *after* my joke, *long after* Palm sites starting covering this ridiculous "sizzling news story." Once I realized that the crap had already hit the fan due to absurdly overzealous and desperate Treophiles, it seemed the best course to try to see what might shake loose from Palm/Sprint corporate. They received numerous calls... and what do you know... an alleged Sprint 700p just happened to shake loose right at the end of this whole episode. Coincidence? I don't know. That it's on Craig's List? Able to be activated? Sold immediately? Believe what you want to believe.

So what are you missing? This would have been long gone and forgotten but for gfunkmagic's libel here on PIC and elsewhere in an attempt to wipe egg off his face instead of just letting things die. Right now I'm apparently experiencing an increase in spam and it seems I am permanently unable to login to change my TC email or anything else.

Honestly, I'd rather this discussion end right now. There is nothing "interesting" about it except for the fact that 99% of news sites on the net never even bother reading the SOURCE info carefully. Syndication is about as reliable as buying products on ebay via Western Union.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
rcartwright @ 2/7/2006 2:54:16 PM # Q
To Slinky. I based what I said about reading the entire "800p"thread and the second thread. I stand by what I said. I would say, to be as charitable as possible, that you had a serious lapse regarding what is funny.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
hkklife @ 2/7/2006 3:26:08 PM # Q
Whatever the result of the TC vs. Slinky saga may be, let's try to keep some of the residual spillover from polluting the PIC frontpage, ok? We can reopen all of the old wounds once the 700p/750p/800p is officially announced 6 months from now ;-)

At any rate, there's a reason that there are many of us who reside primary on PIC and not Brighthand, 1src, PalmAdddicts, TreoCentral etc.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
gfunkmagic @ 2/7/2006 9:33:50 PM # Q
>>>>>At any rate, there's a reason that there are many of us who reside primary on PIC and not Brighthand, 1src, PalmAdddicts, TreoCentral etc.

And some of us do reside in both places too! ;)

--------------------
Gaurav

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
hkklife @ 2/7/2006 10:08:02 PM # Q
Oh, I LURK...I just post mostly on PIC with the occasional tidbit on Brighthand. ;-)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
slinky @ 2/7/2006 10:38:56 PM # Q
And some of us do reside in both places too! ;)

Well then Guarav/gfunkmagic, now it's all making sense. I guess when you read my post at TC you may have prematurely rushed this "scoop" out the door to these other sites you deal with like here at PIC. Thanks for clarifying. Now I understand why you felt it so important to advertise here too that you banned me (apparently now indefinitely) and committed libel about my alleged admission of a lie to cover up your incompetence.

Sorry to hear that even the "legend" Shadowmite doesn't want any part of the latest story you've bought into at TC. My post about a Sprint corporate sales (enterprise) employee confirming that the SprintPCS intranet (not product database) has a 700p page that is "under construction" is 100% true, FWIW.

As I said, I'd prefer that this go away quietly and amicably but you're making it very difficult to do that by ignoring my reasonable request to remove your libelous post from TC and spreading it elsewhere. You may think this is funny but you are going to have serious problems, especially for TC, if someone decides to pull a stunt and escalate the ante beyond the silly comments like those from rcartwright. It's not like things like this haven't happened before.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
slinky @ 2/8/2006 1:10:43 PM # Q
I'm sorry it's come to this Guarav. I asked you nicely. Your posting false and defamatory information on TreoCentral that can be linked to my email address and related business may be the cause of problems I am currently experiencing. You will not like my response.

PS - You probably know more about meds than I (don't have them) and at least I remember what I learned in high school. Grow up.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
Admin @ 2/8/2006 3:08:37 PM # Q
If you want to carry on about this topic please do so in the forums. This story is for discussing the Treo 700p, anything else off-topic or inflammatory will be removed.
RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
slinky @ 2/8/2006 10:47:26 PM # Q
Dear everyone -- please do not continue posting on this topic. While I find it unfortunate that gfunkmagic/guarav decided to empty his dirty TreoCentral laundry here, I completely respect what PIC would like to accomplish. FYI, I have begun to take action and there is no doubt gfunkmagic/guarav will hear about it shortly. Please do not continue this issue any longer and please respect our admin's wishes. Thank you.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
SeldomVisitor @ 2/9/2006 6:19:31 AM # Q
TreoCentral moderators are not known for being moderate - it's surprising, however, that PalmInfocenter is using them.

Must be a labor shortage.

RE: The Treocentral's moderators are MORONS
SeldomVisitor @ 2/12/2006 6:22:41 PM # Q
Apparently amazingly gullible as well:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=904111&postcount=42

Hard to believe - one would think they would have more information than they appear to have.

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
Simony @ 2/12/2006 8:05:02 PM # Q
> If they released a Treo 700p-nt (no thumbboard), I'd sell plasma to get the money to buy one if I had to.

dagwud, I'm with you, but I doubt this is ever going to happen. The feedback seems to be that the majority of users actually like that STUPID keyboard, so Palm will likely stick with it. Anyway, we can dream, can't we?

RE: If this is real, I'm disappointed
freakout @ 2/13/2006 4:47:22 AM # Q
"The feedback seems to be that the majority of users actually like that STUPID keyboard..."

Can't be *that* stupid then, can it?

"...so Palm will likely stick with it."

Those crazy fools! Sticking with what the majority of users want! [/disdain] They must be nuts!

:P

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Reply to this comment

another source

Amanco @ 2/4/2006 5:09:59 PM # Q
RE: another source
Marshall Flinkman @ 2/5/2006 2:33:54 PM # Q
That pic doesn't show buttons for either menu or find... seems strange that they would move those off to the side of the device...

I suppose it might make sense if this Treo were running Cobalt and they had a menu bar at the base of the screen like the T3/T5/T|X/LD (of course, if I were designing it, I'd put the home button there too and go back to 4 app buttons!).

Still, with more and more pics surfacing, we're bound to see an actual device sometime soon...

RE: another source
joad @ 2/5/2006 4:22:41 PM # Q
"we're bound to see an actual device sometime soon..."

Hopefully in my hands, loaded with RAM and sufficient dbcache!! :)

Reply to this comment

What a poor fake

loriot @ 2/6/2006 6:39:52 AM # Q
Hi, Sorry but maybe i am only stupid. If i look to the left upper corner of the phote, than it seems to be obvious that somebody has copied the display into the photo. The black corner of the Display doesn't fit to the corner of the silver body of the phone.

So i am sure this is a fake
*Andreas

RE: What a poor fake
joad @ 2/6/2006 4:27:27 PM # Q
Time will tell. Having watched Palm release rumors over the years, the pictures and the "buzz" don't seem to be much different in style than what we've been fed over and over.

I tend to believe a release is months overdue, and in my dreams it's because Palm is actually taking the time to do some of the Beta testing themselves. I prefer this method of waiting instead of Palm's usual method of foisting the process of Beta testing on early adopters (as has been their MO with too many devices, especially the T650). I'm used to the T650's numerous shortcomings by now and have developed workarounds to keep it stable, the 700w is a joke, and the next Treo had better be amazingly better than it's predecessor (not a bugfix like the 650) or they don't get another $600 from me or my associates.

Reply to this comment

The fishy Treo 700p photos

gadgeteer @ 2/6/2006 9:49:47 PM # Q
By enlarging both photos, it is very fishy that the screen display area with birghter ambient lighting has a more wider blank space to the border at the bottom than the one with low ambient lighting.

Could be a sign of fake

RE: The fishy Treo 700p photos
gadgeteer @ 2/7/2006 1:01:04 AM # Q
I have attached the photo comparison here for your easy reference

http://www.hi-pda.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=301636&noupdate=yes

Reply to this comment

POTENTIAL CONFIRMATION OF 700P IN MARCH

slinky @ 2/7/2006 4:16:35 PM # Q
How funny is it that I joked about the 800p earlier coming out on March 15? This is information that I JUST GOT from someone in Sprint that I will leave nameless. I will preface this by saying that I am ONLY REPEATING what I was told and am NOT responsible for any eventual inaccuracies that may occur. The information comes through the Sprint corporate division (enterprise).

Per discussion, this person's search for a Treo 700p on Sprint's corporate intranet yields a page that is "under construction." Per this person's guesstimate, we are probably talking about 1 month's lead time from the time this message went live. This person said that the BlackBerry 7250 was one of the hottest requests around and it was a month until the "under construction" message was gone and the page completed.

I'm glad to answer any questions I can within reason and protect this person's identity. What I am telling you is 100% true and not the **obvious** joke like the 800p. This person seemed to have a good deal of credibility and that's all I can tell you at the moment. While I'm not excited about the phone since it's what the 650 should have been, at least it provides a little more potential knowledge... and makes me think that the 700p that "leaked" out just about the time of the 800p rumor may not have been coincidental. Who knows. Feel free to ask questions.

Reply to this comment

Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?

hkklife @ 2/8/2006 3:44:54 PM # Q
Let's just SAY that Palm has only one POS Treo (the 700p/LowRider) in the cards for '06 and beyond until PLinux ships. So that means the 650 will have to effectively stick around for another 6 months minumum as the entry-level offering, at least in GSM markets.

What tangible benefits of the 700p could Palm offer to 650 users via firmware updates?

Blazer & VersaMail updates are the major ones, of course.

PTunes likely won't replace Real Player due to licensing agreements/constraints.

EVDO requires different hardware but how about software tweaks/speed optimizations to the GPRS/1xRTT radios in the Treo 650s?

Bluetooth 1.2 probably requires new hardware as well, I'd assume.

FAT32 is definitely possible as Shadowmite has confirmed but Palm doesn't have much of a history of this kind of "support".

BlackBerry Connect is the other 'major' improvement possible but I think that anything RIM-related right now might be up in the air pending the outcome of the current crisis.

Can anyone think of anything else Palm COULD add?
More importantly, does anyone have any reason to think Palm can be bothered enough to keep supporting the 650 after two "successors" have been released? Their past history isn't good for this sort of support. The fact that the 650 is the best-supported Palm in history says a lot...but so does the fact that it was also one of the three buggiest Palm devices ever released.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
Scott R @ 2/8/2006 7:25:29 PM # Q
I don't understand what you're asking. Why would Palm (or, more importantly, the carriers) offer new features via firmware updates? They haven't before and I see no reason why they'd start. They'll release firmware updates to fix bugs and that's about it. If you want any of the new features/software that the 700p will offer, they'll want you to re-up with a new 2-year commitment and buy the 700p.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
hkklife @ 2/8/2006 7:42:16 PM # Q
A. Let's say there's SOME carrier (Cingular or an overseas GSM carrier) who is shut out of the initial 700p due to Sprint's exclusivity period/CDMA initial launch but wants to continue "pushing" the 650 without slasing prices on it. There's one reason to offer some compelling tidbits of firmware upgrades.

B. Let's say the 700p *IS* the Lowrider and the only POS Treo that's going to come out this year. Some carrier may want to offer two POS Treos and basically bring some measure of uniformity to the lineup.

Asking "why would Palm offer new features via firmware updates?" is akin to asking "Why would iRiver/Creative etc. offer support for new codecs & features by upgrading their mp3 players' firmware?". Just because Palm DOESN'T have a history of doing it doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T do it.

Besides, no one that signed a 2 year contract, even on launch day, for the 650 is eligible for renewal yet. I'd say most 650 owners bought theirs sometime in the last 6-8 months after most of the glaring bugs were fixed (NVFS etc)...so customers like that are still mired deeply in a contract. Throwing them a bone with one final update would be a good PR move.

My V60c was flashed at least 3 times by Verizon and it was effectively brought to the level of a v60i (minus the TTY stuff)-they even swapped out the wobbly antenna for the "new" one!

Finally, even if no more Treo 650 updates are forthcoming that won't prevent certain...Shadowy individuals from trying to extract some of the good stuff that's on the 700p and getting it onto the 650s of some brave souls. FAT32, anyone?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/8/2006 9:10:00 PM # Q
What tangible benefits of the 700p could Palm offer to 650 users via firmware updates?

The new Treo will offer EVDO support. This is the main reason to "upgrade" from a Treo 650.

More importantly, does anyone have any reason to think Palm can be bothered enough to keep supporting the 650 after two "successors" have been released?

The Treo 650 will be left to wither and die. The whole point of carriers offering new/"better" phones is to induce users to renew long term contracts, preferrably with data service usage as well. Helping users nurse their old equipment along as long as possible by providing regular updates (like how good old HandEra used to do) doesn't help Palm or the carriers make money. "Goodwill" doesn't pay the bills.

The fact that the 650 is the best-supported Palm in history says a lot...but so does the fact that it was also one of the three buggiest Palm devices ever released.

At least the T5 was worse than the Treo 650...


TVoR



------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
hkklife @ 2/8/2006 9:44:17 PM # Q
Err, Voice, your comment #1 is basically what I was stating. Aside from the EVDO radio in the 700p and the 2x RAM, nearly EVERYTHING on it could have been (and should've been!) included on the 650 back in '04 or grafted onto it via firmware updates (more on this below).

Since Palm seems content to stick to their GLACIAL release schedule they should just go ahead and act like Sony/Motorola etc. and release incremental upgrades of existing hardware like they used to with the III/IIIx/IIIxe & V/Vx. If the end users want to try and haggle out upgrades/trade-ins with the carriers then so be it.

Example:

-Treo 700p launches spring '06.

-Treo 700px launched fall '06/early '07. Has newer OS/apps & larger capacity battery. All of this can be added to existing 700p's for a PRICE.

-Treo 800 launches fall '07 running PLinux, 700px existing stocks are liquidated and they put it out to pasture.


SO:
Since the carriers are SO starved for content-based revenue ($7 for Pac Man on my cell phone? PLEEEASE!) let them get into the OS/software business as well. Again, I propose a "$ for software updates" for handsets/smartphones/PDAs strategy.

Look at it this way:
The consumer gets sucked in with a 2-year contract. Midway through his contract he gets antsy and wants to make his aging Treo more functional (functional in a way that buying GIN games & ringtones cannot do). Verizon/Sprint/Cingular won't let him upgrade early so at least let them make $30-$40 by selling a "ROM Pack" that updates VersaMail/Blazer/OS etc. Or buy it from Palm, give a ton of YMMV/at your own risk legalese and let 'em share the proceeds with the carriers. For new customers/suckers buying a new phone during this interim period, they will get a "Rev B" Treo with all of the latest goodies pre-installed. Heck, I'd pay Verizon $40 just to unlock/restore the crippled BT DUN profiles on their latest phones! How ELSE can you hope to keep a phone like the Treo 650 competitive when its hardware specs were already dated upon its release? Any piece of tech that hangs around as a company's "flagship" for close to 2 years is a bad omen.

Does anyone think what I am proposing makes sense?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
slinky @ 2/8/2006 10:56:25 PM # Q
Unfortunately it makes perfect sense but I'm not sure I agree with the addition "px" model. As I mentioned above, at least as of last week Sprint allegedly had a corporate intranet page for the 700p. This means a likely Spring release as you mention.

But I think that the 800p (not the Shakespeare one, lol) which would feature a new OS and maybe more RAM, would be the next model. There will be no desire for a transitional model which might be more expense than it's worth. Given Palm's abysmal track record for creating phones with a limited life span, I would doubt that there will be an OS upgrade but I wouldn't rule it out.

My thought is that once Palm OS users have EVDO capability, the attraction of a new phone would really be more the software than the hardware. There was little reason to switch from the 600 to the 650 but for the screen resolution. With a diminishing number of "improvements" I'm guessing the OS will be the big draw for the next generation Palm phone, the 800p or whatever it's going to be called.

I'm really not sure what is in store for the Palm-based platform. Unless something comes out shortly it looks like they will continue to lose considerable ground to Microsoft.

Treo 650 likely EOL by late 2006.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/9/2006 1:17:16 AM # Q
Does anyone think what I am proposing makes sense?

I'm afraid I can't agree with your proposed strategy. Historically, VERY few users ever upgrade the OS on their PDAs. Less than 1% of users upgrading their software is not exactly a great business plan, especially if you have to support clueless newbies who somehow will find a way to fry their phones during the update. (Believe me, supporting Treos is a nightmarfe for these companies.)

The typical Treo owner will be VERY satisfied with a phone with EVDO, 320 x 320 screen, 64 MB RAM, Bluetooth, and maybe Wi-Fi. There simply aren't many more upgrades worth adding that Palm needs to include. Remote memory wiping (several current options available), better security (TealLock), corporate email via Good or a Blackberry client... these are all things that either already are being or could be added by end users themselves.

The Treo 600 was full of compromises dictated by Handspring's impoverished state. The Treo 650 added a decent screen and Bluetooth (big deal). Next we get EVDO, which is actually worth upgrading to. Optional Wi-Fi is nice but then what? Internal antenna? More RAM? Triangular buttons? Claudia Schiffer Edition? The Treo design is about as solid as it's gonna get - the rest is about fixing corners that were cut in previous editions. Only problem is that incremental upgrades won't cut it in the smartphone marketplace once the competition heats up. And supporting two different OSes is going to get old FAST.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
hkklife @ 2/9/2006 1:45:56 AM # Q
Well, for one thing, a physically larger 320*320 display (let's assume a Hornesque 320*480 will never happen) would be nice...internal wi-fi (aka big fat finger to the carriers) is another. You can NEVER have enough memory (128'd be a realistic ideal) along with perhaps an internal storage volume ala T5 is wi-fi continues to be SDIO card only.

And of course, a sleeker, thinner, more stylish formfactor with an internal antenna is a MUST HAVE. The Treo 600 looked impossibly clunky in '03. The 700x line is becoming embarrassingly dowdy looking at this point in '06.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Palm is now COMPLETELY p0Wn3d by the carriers
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/9/2006 2:44:33 AM # Q
internal wi-fi (aka big fat finger to the carriers)

Palm is rapidly becoming a company whose existence depends primarily upon profits derived from sales to carriers and having their products permitted to use the carriers' networks. Pissing the carriers of would be a suicidal move. If Sprint, Verizin, Cingular, etc say "No Wi-Fi", Palm's correct answer is "Yes, Sir!".

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
ChiA @ 2/9/2006 4:16:45 AM # Q
internal wi-fi (aka big fat finger to the carriers)

The question is, how come Nokia and Sony Ericsson are able to show the carriers the big fat finger by putting wi-fi into their smartphones but Palm has to take the carriers' fingers where the sun don't shine by leaving wi-fi off Palm Treos?

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
SeldomVisitor @ 2/9/2006 6:12:50 AM # Q
> ...how come Nokia and Sony Ericsson are able to show
> the carriers the big fat finger by putting wi-fi into
> their smartphones but Palm has to take the carriers'
> fingers where the sun don't shine by leaving wi-fi off
> Palm Treos?

Size matters.

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
twizza @ 2/9/2006 10:59:48 AM # Q
> ...how come Nokia and Sony Ericsson are able to show
> the carriers the big fat finger by putting wi-fi into
> their smartphones but Palm has to take the carriers'
> fingers where the sun don't shine by leaving wi-fi off
> Palm Treos?

Size matters.

That was one great reply, and so very true.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
hkklife @ 2/9/2006 11:03:48 AM # Q
By cozing up to VZW (who, let's be honest here, has never had much love for POS itself-just the Treo FF) for the 700w, Palm runs the risk of alienating Sprint & Cingular domestically...and the global GSM carriers have already turned their attention elsewhere. Where are the rumors of a GSM 700-anything?

Palm had better wake up and stop prostituting themselves out to the carriers. They don't have the experience, the clout or the cash to play kiss'n tell games with the big boys Stateside...so they need to adopt a little more of a "rogue" mentality if they want to survive amidst all of the BIG handset manufacturers, the remaining BIG PDA makers, and the BIG cellular carriers.

Either sell out and throw in the towel or become lean, mean, and crafty...and including wi-fi in at least one Treo is but one step towards doing that. Improving upon their glacial release cycle is another. Properly testing & supporting their products both prior to and post shipping is yet another.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
twizza @ 2/9/2006 11:29:59 AM # Q
hkklife; i disagree with your premise in that last posting:
By cozing up to VZW (who, let's be honest here, has never had much love for POS itself-just the Treo FF) for the 700w, Palm runs the risk of alienating Sprint & Cingular domestically...and the global GSM carriers have already turned their attention elsewhere.

Palm, a cash strapped company who has lost a ton of market share needed something to help that side of things. While users here and other places see a WM Palm device as a sign of the end-times, it shuold more be regarded as a sign of despiration to hang onto a fleeting market they didnt move quickly enough to take hold of (thank TVOR for that one). Besides being a nice "side" business to keep things afloat, the WM Treo does imporve mindshare - which is what VZW wants to get into you before even selling silly services and phones.

Sprint isnt alienated as they had exclusivity on PalmOS Treos and not WM ones. Its a spot where Palm made the boat for an eventually fall out and then pulled their card when it was needed.

VZW is in bed with MS and for both the Treo was kicking their butts from a mindshare and probably profits point of view. If they made it attractive enough to Palm to make it happen, and Palm did, then cozy away and take the money in the morning and run.

You also stated:
Where are the rumors of a GSM 700-anything?
They arent as obvious, you only need to look at Palm and realize what has been happening the last few years. That's what we will see here. Other than the EU exclusive model, there hasnt been much in the way of Palm GSM rumors, and really, it works better for Palm that way. Rumors from the wrong places puts unneeded pressures to get out an unfinsihed device. Let them finish, and hopefully wow.

Then you said:
Palm had better wake up and stop prostituting themselves out to the carriers.

Sorry, but EVERY phone manufacturer is being used by the carriers STATESIDE. This is the ONLY market where politics and money have been able to squelch any innovation that any manufacturers would bring. And while profit margins are also high for manufacturers here, so too is the headaches of dealing with modified/backward systems and unneeded design/implementation specifications.

Final piece on my end:
Either sell out and throw in the towel or become lean, mean, and crafty...and including wi-fi in at least one Treo is but one step towards doing that.

Its most likely coming, not when you want it but its coming. Just put your money back in your pocket and wait, or move to another platform, in that respect no one can stop you from paying hand over fist for "apparent" innovation (thru features battery tech hasn't caught up with).

Improving upon their glacial release cycle is another.

I too would like to see it, but you have to remember, when Chrysler shortened their model release cycle from 3-5 years to 12-18 months (~1992 with the introduction of the Intrepid/Breeze/??? models), it meant they had to weed a lot of things thru that were in that transistional cache. I imagine that Palm wants to do the same. That means some things gotta get pushed thru or just thrown away (that happened to that Tungsten W2 that was never released but FCC docs do have, because of the Handspring acquisition).

Properly testing & supporting their products both prior to and post shipping is yet another.

Until that happens across the entire consumer electronics industry, it aint changing. Sorta like what happened in autos, a few companies slightly raised the warranty/quality bar and then consumers start getting loud about it, and then industry change happens.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: Trickle down benefits to Treo 650 users?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/12/2006 9:11:42 PM # Q
hkklife; i disagree with your premise in that last posting:
By cozing up to VZW (who, let's be honest here, has never had much love for POS itself-just the Treo FF) for the 700w, Palm runs the risk of alienating Sprint & Cingular domestically...and the global GSM carriers have already turned their attention elsewhere.

Palm, a cash strapped company who has lost a ton of market share needed something to help that side of things. While users here and other places see a WM Palm device as a sign of the end-times, it shuold more be regarded as a sign of despiration to hang onto a fleeting market they didnt move quickly enough to take hold of (thank TVOR for that one). Besides being a nice "side" business to keep things afloat, the WM Treo does imporve mindshare - which is what VZW wants to get into you before even selling silly services and phones.

Sprint isnt alienated as they had exclusivity on PalmOS Treos and not WM ones. Its a spot where Palm made the boat for an eventually fall out and then pulled their card when it was needed.

VZW is in bed with MS and for both the Treo was kicking their butts from a mindshare and probably profits point of view. If they made it attractive enough to Palm to make it happen, and Palm did, then cozy away and take the money in the morning and run.

You also stated:
Where are the rumors of a GSM 700-anything?
They arent as obvious, you only need to look at Palm and realize what has been happening the last few years. That's what we will see here. Other than the EU exclusive model, there hasnt been much in the way of Palm GSM rumors, and really, it works better for Palm that way. Rumors from the wrong places puts unneeded pressures to get out an unfinsihed device. Let them finish, and hopefully wow.

Then you said:
Palm had better wake up and stop prostituting themselves out to the carriers.

Sorry, but EVERY phone manufacturer is being used by the carriers STATESIDE. This is the ONLY market where politics and money have been able to squelch any innovation that any manufacturers would bring. And while profit margins are also high for manufacturers here, so too is the headaches of dealing with modified/backward systems and unneeded design/implementation specifications.

Final piece on my end:
Either sell out and throw in the towel or become lean, mean, and crafty...and including wi-fi in at least one Treo is but one step towards doing that.

Its most likely coming, not when you want it but its coming. Just put your money back in your pocket and wait, or move to another platform, in that respect no one can stop you from paying hand over fist for "apparent" innovation (thru features battery tech hasn't caught up with).

Improving upon their glacial release cycle is another.

I too would like to see it, but you have to remember, when Chrysler shortened their model release cycle from 3-5 years to 12-18 months (~1992 with the introduction of the Intrepid/Breeze/??? models), it meant they had to weed a lot of things thru that were in that transistional cache. I imagine that Palm wants to do the same. That means some things gotta get pushed thru or just thrown away (that happened to that Tungsten W2 that was never released but FCC docs do have, because of the Handspring acquisition).

Properly testing & supporting their products both prior to and post shipping is yet another.

Until that happens across the entire consumer electronics industry, it aint changing. Sorta like what happened in autos, a few companies slightly raised the warranty/quality bar and then consumers start getting loud about it, and then industry change happens.


Well said, 'Toine. The Treo 700 was a cynical cash grab by Palm that ultimately will undermine the platform. Had Palm been able to regain control of PalmOS, they would have again been in control of the one feature they have that differentiates them from the Windows Mobile hordes. But they blew it.

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

Reply to this comment

Microsoft may unveil rival for BlackBerry

Gekko @ 2/13/2006 8:42:02 AM # Q
Microsoft sends a message to RIM
Paper reports the software giant will unveil mobile e-mail and other offerings to compete with BlackBerry.
February 13, 2006: 7:18 AM EST


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Microsoft Corp. plans to unveil several devices Monday as well as offers from cell phone-service providers as it aims at the lucrative mobile e-mail market now dominated by Research in Motion's BlackBerry device, according to a published report.

The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Microsoft (Research) will introduce four devices to be shipped with its new "push" e-mail function built in. Microsoft has not been able to cheaply and easily offer push e-mail, which has a message show up as soon as it is received. That has given Research in Motion (Research), which offers push e-mail on the BlackBerry, a competitive advantage.




The Journal reports that Microsoft's new devices are to be manufactured by cell phone and computer makers, and include Hewlett-Packard (Research) new hand-held computer called the iPAQ hw6900.

In addition, the paper reports several wireless service providers are launching services to allow customers to take advantage of Microsoft's push e-mail service, including Vodafone Group (Research) and Cingular Wireless, which BellSouth (Research) owns jointly with AT&T (Research).

The paper said Microsoft hopes to attract customers to its mobile e-mail service by offering a lower price, particularly for corporate clients already using Microsoft's Exchange Server 2003 software for managing e-mail accounts.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/13/technology/microsoft_blackberry/index.htm?cnn=yes



RE: Microsoft may unveil rival for BlackBerry
SeldomVisitor @ 2/13/2006 9:22:08 AM # Q
Note that the PALM device(s) won't have this until PALM hacks it into their modified uSoft-OS.

RE: Microsoft may unveil rival for BlackBerry
AdamaDBrown @ 2/13/2006 2:15:41 PM # Q
What do you mean hack it in? It's a standard update, all they need to do is roll it into their next ROM update.

RE: Microsoft p0Wn3d Palm
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 2/13/2006 2:56:45 PM # Q
It's a standard update, all they need to do is roll it into their next ROM update.

Assuming, of course that Microsoft will still allow/support this. Could PalmOS support of MS Exchange somehow have been scuttled by the demons of Redmond?


Bwahahahaha!


Palm tried to dance with the Devil. And is in the process of getting p0Wn3d.


http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treosith.jpg

******************************************************************************


------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communismô

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Microsoft may unveil rival for BlackBerry
SeldomVisitor @ 2/13/2006 3:17:11 PM # Q
PALM (and others) have made much of the fact that PALM has "modified" the standard Windows OS. This suggests that standard upgrades won't...fit.

Thus PALM will have to hack the upgrade to make it fit.

BTW, this view is reinforced by the words about PALM and the upgrade:

== "...Palm Inc... also reaffirmed their commitment to free MSFP upgrades..."

rather than a simple:

== "The upgrade will be available immediately or the TREO 700W"

as the words for reams of competitors DID say.

RE: Microsoft may unveil rival for BlackBerry
Admin @ 2/13/2006 3:34:18 PM # Q
Palm has committed to releasing the Push email update from Microsoft. No word on exactly when but I have heard it from them and they are mentioned in the msft press release on this.
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