MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Access Linux Platform Shown at LinuxWorld

Access Linux Platform from PalmSourcePalmSource is exhibiting at the LinuxWorld conference going on this week in Boston. PalmInfocenter is live on the scene to bring you this exclusive new preview of the Access Linux Platform.

Read on for more about the Access Linux Platform and check out some new screenshots of the current ALP prototype being shown at LinuxWorld.

Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (56 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

Windowing system?

Sam H @ 4/4/2006 1:10:06 PM # Q
Any word on whether they're using X or not?
RE: Windowing system?
Ryan @ 4/4/2006 1:12:53 PM # Q
I will try to find out, If you have questions let me know and I will try to get official answers.
RE: Windowing system?
timepilot84 @ 4/4/2006 1:48:33 PM # Q
I sincerely doubt they're using X. None of the other PDAs that use Linux use it. X is a pig.

RE: Windowing system?
Sam H @ 4/4/2006 2:45:49 PM # Q
Thanks! That's the only question I have for now...
RE: Windowing system?
cervezas @ 4/4/2006 3:07:48 PM # Q
With regard to X Windows they're still not saying for now, as of recent conversations I've had with David Schlesinger.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Java? RE: Windowing system?
pmjoe @ 4/4/2006 3:24:47 PM # Q
> If you have questions let me know and I will try to get official answers.

I don't suppose they'll try to support something more robust like J2ME CDC Personal Profile instead of CLDC MIDP? It shouldn't be too hard to get it going under Linux.


RE: Windowing system?
PenguinPowered @ 4/4/2006 4:09:36 PM # Q
X is a pig, but GTK+ directfb isn't very complete.

So the challenge becomes: can you do enough of what X does to support your aps without ending up just as bloated.

The handheld.org folk think you can't and they've tried to set up a small version of X. I've run that version on a handheld and it has had acceptable performance.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Windowing system?
timepilot84 @ 4/4/2006 4:11:02 PM # Q
I don't suppose they'll try to support something more robust like J2ME CDC Personal Profile instead of CLDC MIDP?

Even the J2ME CDC PBP would be better than the MIDP, and more in line with the capabilities of modern PDAs. Of course, if they believe the future of PDA's is as phones...



RE: Windowing system?
bcombee @ 4/7/2006 1:13:09 PM # Q
Actually, the Nokia 770 uses a mini-X server for its display environment. My experience with it has been mostly positive, although the lack of memory causes it to get really slow sometimes.

RE: Windowing system?
cervezas @ 4/7/2006 3:28:59 PM # Q
Ben, when do you have time to be playing around with Linux internet tablets? Get back to work. Unless... hmmm. ;-)

IIRC, it's not just Maemo, but the Familiar and GPE Linux platforms run small X servers. wxEmbedded (a version of wxWidgets for resource-constrained devices) also has ports to Tiny-X and Nano-X.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Windowing system?
tompi @ 4/17/2006 5:54:32 PM # Q
X is not a pig; it ran fine on machines that had less power than the original (!) Palm. X is tuned to the hardware it runs on. On your desktop, it is tuned to use possibly hundreds of megabytes. It can be tuned to run in a few hundred kilobytes for a PDA.

I'd be more worried about the use of Gtk; it is a desktop toolkit, developed with big desktop machines in mind and the features that people want on those machine (animation, theming, etc.).

Reply to this comment

Not impressed with GUI

Surur @ 4/4/2006 2:30:46 PM # Q

Icons instead of text is not a good idea. Doesn't look very Palm-like either.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

What GUI?
cervezas @ 4/4/2006 3:12:54 PM # Q
It's not like there's much to go on, here. Aside from what we've already seen there's a self-proclaimed "mock up" of a screen and a simple-looking dialog with text-labeled buttons that opened from a taskbar icon at the bottom of the screen. Palm OS already uses a taskbar like that, so that's hardly new.

The main thing that I think we'll see with ALP, based on what we know of the Rome interface and what's been repeated to me by Lefty, is that it's "task oriented." From the sound of it the system is not just aware of "applications" that are running it's aware of common tasks those applications register with it. So an taskbar icon that represents your MP3 player running in the background might present you with an "access panel" that would let you mute, pause, or resume your music without having to bring the whole application into view. If I have that right, it sounds like a nice innovation.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Not impressed with GUI
PenguinPowered @ 4/4/2006 4:12:06 PM # Q
It sounds like the Windows task bar, long since copied by Gnome, but on a system that's still restricted to only displaying windows for one ap at a time.

Of course, with a PDA's scree realestate, the one-ap-at-a-time model is not necessarily a bad thing.



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Not impressed with GUI
batmon @ 4/4/2006 4:49:00 PM # Q
Is the first main screen is widget based then it will be very cool. You can then turn on the phone, and the phone can tell you today's weather, latest NBA scores, etc.

Reply to this comment

My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...

hkklife @ 4/4/2006 3:36:01 PM # Q
"It is solely being used for demonstration purposes, as Haier is not a licensee or involved with ALP. "

YET

;-)

Look for Access/PalmSource to be much, much more aggressive seeking licensees than Palm/PalmSource solo ever was.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...
Timothy Rapson @ 4/5/2006 8:20:48 AM # Q
I am not sure about that.
Docomo is the money and marketing behind Access just as Palm (hardware) was behind PalmSource.

RE: My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...
PenguinPowered @ 4/5/2006 4:36:41 PM # Q
DoCoMo is a large investor in ACCESS, but they don't represent nearly the percentage of business income that Palm did to PSRC, especially after Sony pulled out.

Also, read ACCESS's literature. They've got bigger plans than just the pda market.

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...
hkklife @ 4/5/2006 4:41:32 PM # Q
Marty;

"PDA market" being a catch-all term used for both dedicated PDAs as well as smartphones?

Or "PDA market" specifically referring to only conventional PDAs?

Heck, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a true "conventional" PDA never shipped with ALP. I think we can all safely assume Palm is going to milk Garnet as long as possible and then drop PDAs entirely by next year. Either that or they will try to kickstart the market by capitalizing on their near monopoly of the remaining slivers of the "PDA" market, offering cellular & HD-equipped tablet style devices running whatever their own home-brewed Linux solution is.

Either way, I don't think Access are in Palm's plans any longer other than someone to buy the IP for Garnet & Cobalt for penies on the dollar (assuming this is needed if backwards compatability cannot legally be reverse engineered). After that it's Palm vs Access/PalmSource as competitors of sorts--with Access making a strong push into Asia & emerging markets (India etc) and Palm sticking to their usual mainstays of the USA and Western Europe.

Imagine a split kinda similar to how JVC & RCA used to be together then broke apart at the onset of WWII, their former ties being a distant memory during the furious VCR & camcorder wars of the 1980s ;-)
That'll be Palm & PalmSource down the road if both stay in business.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...
PenguinPowered @ 4/5/2006 5:12:35 PM # Q
"PDA Market" being a catchall term for handheld device.

ACCESS is looking to be a player in the "smart home" market as well.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: My latest prediction in the hawrdware side of things...
cervezas @ 4/5/2006 5:29:11 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
I think we can all safely assume Palm is going to milk Garnet as long as possible and then drop PDAs entirely by next year. Either that or they will try to kickstart the market by capitalizing on their near monopoly of the remaining slivers of the "PDA" market, offering cellular & HD-equipped tablet style devices running whatever their own home-brewed Linux solution is.

The latter.

Although you should still be a little careful in the assumption that Palm has no interest in ALP. There's not enough to see yet to know they're not interested, and if my guy is right about their Linux platform being more of a hedge than an actual product there are plenty of good reasons for them to have done it that have nothing to do with their opinion's of ACCESS's plans. For one thing, it makes a good bargaining chip. For another, if they think there's a reasonable chance their customers will examine the options and prefer an ALP-powered Treo to one with their own OS they still need to grow their in-house Linux expertise.

I'm sure Palm is approaching the prospect of licensing ALP with the utmost caution and a healthy dose of skepticism, but I doubt they've written it off. If Palm does license ALP, part of the deal might be that they get to put their tweaked-out Treo version of Garnet in the emulator--and ACCESS might sweeten their licensing deal a bit if Palm agreed to license that back to ACCESS as the standard ROM image for GHost. While I don't think the Palm OS part of ALP is a major focus for ACCESS, they may prefer to release it with a Palm-enhanced Garnet than the bare-bones and neglected version that PalmSource owns.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Will it use HotSync??

batmon @ 4/4/2006 4:43:16 PM # Q
I like HotSync because it works much better then MS Sync. Also, can it be Sync through WiFi and wireless WAN so we can have the phone sync up with Exchange emails, calendar schedule, contacts and tasks anytime we want?

RE: Will it use Hotsync??
Surur @ 4/4/2006 6:26:29 PM # Q

I think thats an easy yes, it appears on Access's diagrams.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...

Reply to this comment

So no-go for OS5 apps?

neuron @ 4/4/2006 8:29:07 PM # Q
If it is all about ALP, then it is quite sure all those native ARM apps for os5, such as chatteremail, won't run at all in ALP without re-write the whole codes. Sucks.

RE: So no-go for OS5 apps?
cervezas @ 4/4/2006 10:43:01 PM # Q
Says who? From what I've heard PACE Native Objects and anything else that's a Garnet API will be supported. As long as the developer isn't using unsupported/undocumented APIs (i.e. their application is well-behaved) I haven't heard anything that would indicate there would be a problem.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

Fantastic news!

Dr Opinion @ 4/4/2006 8:32:41 PM # Q
On one front, Treo dominates the mobile space, ALP is (almost) finished, and Palm may-or-may-not be developing a linux platform.

On the other, wince licensees are quitting like one-legged men in an ass-kicking contest, vista-mobile only runs on massive clunky bricks, and wince is already dead -- its engineers now working on a PSP ripoff (it's called "innovation" at Microsoft).

It's taken a long time for the market to really shake out, but it looks like the future is solidly Palm OS. This is obviously great news for anyone who cares about quality mobile technology, software development, the fantastic Palm community, and sticking it to the (m$) man. :)

I'm not convinced that Palm is actually developing a new OS from scratch, although it would make perfect sense for them to leak about moves in that direction to reduce ALP licensing rents. My sense is that if palm could outsource the OS, and concentrate on customizations and hardware, they'd be happier than if they had to own the OS again. I might be wrong. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Fantastic news!
Timothy Rapson @ 4/4/2006 9:31:18 PM # Q
Right! Owning their own OS has worked out so badly for say......Microsoft and Apple. I am sure that Palm would hate to be in that position.

RE: Fantastic news!
Dr Opinion @ 4/4/2006 11:53:08 PM # Q
Very good point. Wince has been a disaster, and the Newton, well, most of you kids probably don't even know what that is. :)

The funny thing is, I think you were *trying* to be sarcastic. How ironic. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Fantastic news!
Wollombi @ 4/5/2006 1:12:06 AM # Q
Newton had it's own share of quirks, problems, and oversized hardware, which is why it ultimately failed, despite it's myriad abilities (for added $$$ of course). In many ways, Apple hasn't really been that different than MS, just less successful at their version of it.

MS if far from dead in the handheld space. Even if HP should happen to pull out (they haven't, their smartphone devices will still run MS software), there are still other licensees. Who's licensing PalmOS (and actually producing products outside the niche) other than Palm? This race is far from decided. Besides, two players means some form of competition, which is always better for the consumer (you and me).

_________________
Sean

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

RE: Fantastic news!
Timothy Rapson @ 4/5/2006 8:27:03 AM # Q
Dr. O,
So, Apple Newton failed because Apple didn't license the OS from someone else as Palm does? That makes a LOT of sense. And the Apple desktop and iPod are dismal failures because Apple controls their OSs? OK.
Yep, Microsoft is an abysmal failure with their own OS business. X-Boxes are sitting on store shelves unsold, and Windows Mobile is not spanking Palm silly in the sales department? On what planet, Dr?

RE: Fantastic news!
naio21 @ 4/5/2006 1:41:04 PM # Q
Dr. O,

have you fled of the euthanasia room? :)

Ivan

RE: Fantastic news!
Dr Opinion @ 4/6/2006 1:40:31 AM # Q
Thank you, Ivan. :)

Not dead yet. ;)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

Reply to this comment

Means the traditional PDA is dead

dsaroff @ 4/5/2006 9:37:44 AM # Q
What this interface shows is that for traditional PDAs, I hope that Palm IS developing its own OS, because ALPs will leave us high and dry.

The OS really doesn't seem that useful for highly data intensive activities (big buttons don't leave room for it). I think those who say, 'well it's all we've seen so far.' are deluding themselves. This will be the smartphone OS.

I HOPE Palm competes with them, because I use my PDA as a portable computer.

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
hkklife @ 4/5/2006 9:53:26 AM # Q
dsaroff;

Me too. I expect FrankenGarnet to stick around for another year or two in low end PDAs just to give Palm an easy clean sweep of the <$200 PDA market which will always find some takers in students, soccer moms, and casual business users.

Otherwise, I think you'll basically see the remnants of traditional PDAs (maybe two Palm models and 1-2 Dell/HP offerings) picking up the few slivers of marketshare not taken by cell phones in the sub $250 market. Smartphones will occupy the $250-$500 realm and above that you'll have some oddball mixture of cheapie laptops, Origami & other tablet style devices, ultraportable Windows machines and the occasional odd duck like an Archos media player or similar PMP with PDA features.


P.S. Are you still slugging it out with the LifeDrive as your daily use device?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
cervezas @ 4/5/2006 2:22:37 PM # Q
Bear a few things in mind:

1. Those buttons in the "mock-up" screenshot are big relative to a very small phone screen. That doesn't mean that on a PDA-sized screen they would have to be very large at all. Besides, that mock-up looks more like an example of an operator-customized go-to-our-store launcher than a regular application.

2. While ACCESS and Palm *both* are likely to focus their energies on making a nice smartphone experience, ACCESS seems to have at least as broad a vision about the range of devices it wants to support as Palm does. The banner that PalmSource and ACCESS recently shared on the front page of their web sites read: "Together, ACCESS and PalmSource will deliver next generation software solutions for a variety of markets, including mobile devices and phones, home media, and automotive telematics." I'd suggest that some thought may be going into using ALP on screens that are even quite a bit bigger than a PDA.

3. A lot of the thinking that could improve the usability of a multitasking system on a small phone screen could also make the touchscreen-enabled PDA experience better. If ALP's "task-oriented" design turns out to be anything like what I described above, for example, it would be a big improvement over any multi-tasking PDA environment that exists today. Also, it wouldn't hurt PDA users at all to have a better one-handed experience for the times when their interest is in retrieving rather than entering data.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
dsaroff @ 4/5/2006 5:20:34 PM # Q
Hkklife--

Ironic you asked that. On April Fools, no joke, my LD died. Hardware problem!

Since I can't afford to be without my Palm, I bought a new LD on Monday. Played with the thought of the TX, but find the Lifedrive Mode and storage indespensible. Interesting that the new LD I bought did not have patch 2 on it (must have been sitting at CircuitCity for a while, which doesn't bode well for the LD).

On the good side, all the problems I had with G2 nearly being unusable is not the case now. Wonder if something was defective with my old digitizer.

I intend to send it back to Palm and have them fix it.

At least I didn't pay for my first one, and my new one was $150 cheaper than it was a year ago. I hate doing it, but I DID buy the extended warrantee.

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
hkklife @ 4/5/2006 6:46:44 PM # Q
Did you at least give a TX and a 4gb (non-spec but still...) at least a serious consideration?

How is the 2nd LD faring build-quality wise? Any noticable hardware changes from the early production run model you originally had?

How's the 2.0 update doing for you?

While I wouldn't take a LD unless it was:
A. $200 or less
AND
B. Preloaded with 2.0 from the factory

I still like to keep tabs on users who I know had a rather touch and go experience the first time around with their LD. I mean, heck, my 2nd LD was a bit better than the first LD and I just bought them one month apart.

Personally my ideal solution would be a TX with a ROM update to address the heap issue and a 4gb SD Ultra + card (the one with the flip out USB port) once the spec is ratified and made official.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
dsaroff @ 4/6/2006 11:52:21 AM # Q
>Did you at least give a TX and a 4gb (non-spec but still...) at >least a serious consideration?

Not really. 4GB SDs are really too expensive at this point. Plus, I heavily use the LifeDrive mode in my Palm

>How is the 2nd LD faring build-quality wise? Any noticable >hardware changes from the early production run model you >originally had?

I find the digitizer feels softer than my old one and recognizes my G2 better. Otherwise I haven't noticed anything.

>How's the 2.0 update doing for you?

Working fine. I was surprised it wasn't installed, though.

If the TX had LifeDrive mode and 4GB SDs were les$ (much) expensive, I think I would have switched. I liked the speed of the TX and its size. It does feel sorta cheap compared to the LD, but I could management that.



Tis Interesting...
twizza @ 4/6/2006 5:07:28 PM # Q
That is realy interesting to ehar about you and your primary use of an LD. Its kinda weird, but it seems that there is a small but slowly growng number of people who are pushing out to use their PDAs as main computers. With capacities, speeds, and (for the most part) apps in a servicable state, its just interesting.

I use my Treo 650 as only since my laptop went some weeks ago. Outside of missing a few web dev contracts (sucky web browser cannot preview a site done in css correctly), I really havent missed a beat. And I really dont feel like getting a new computer yet either. Tis kinda nice to be bully unteathered.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
dsaroff @ 4/7/2006 5:23:13 PM # Q
I agree, twizza. Recently, on an airplane, I spent a good part of my trip using my LD to spec out the features for an expertise locator at my company. I was really surprised when I synched and opened the doc on my PC at work at how long it was.

I could deal with having my home PC out of action for a week better than not having my LD for a week (scary, really).

At home, I seldom use my PC anymore to check email or surf the web.


RE: Means the traditional PDA is dead
arielb @ 5/14/2006 6:51:37 PM # Q
SD are expensive but then they don't have moving parts so they're more reliable. I wouldn't be surprised to see you buying another lifedrive

Reply to this comment

That's all she wrote?

PenguinPowered @ 4/7/2006 10:00:58 PM # Q
So that's all the news from LinuxWorld?

Isn't this a step backwards from what we demo-ed at the developer's conference a year ago?

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: That's all she wrote?
Ryan @ 4/8/2006 12:34:42 PM # Q
there was more news and stuff being shown of course, haven't had time to put it all together yet.
Reply to this comment

You Saw This Where?

Haber @ 4/8/2006 1:27:22 AM # Q
I went to LinuxWorld, saw all 3 sides of the PalmSource Exhibit, and the most I saw running was an Intel demoboard with a camera hooked up to a display. Are you *sure* this is from LinuxWorld?

RE: You Saw This Where?
Ryan @ 4/8/2006 12:33:54 PM # Q
they did have a demo unit in the booth, but I took these pix at a meeting.
Reply to this comment

Access Linux platform flow diagram leaked

SeldomVisitor @ 4/22/2006 9:56:01 AM # Q
RE: Access Linux platform flow diagram leaked
hkklife @ 4/22/2006 11:14:36 AM # Q
LOL! Love it !!!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX

Reply to this comment

here we are 2+ years later

Gekko @ 4/20/2008 12:26:26 PM # Q

WTF?

RE: here we are 2+ years later
akalefty @ 4/21/2008 9:02:56 AM # Q
RE: here we are 2+ years later
PenguinPowered @ 4/21/2008 1:10:59 PM # Q
DoCoMo expects to begin introducing handsets equipped with the operator pack in the second half of 2009.

So another twelve to fifteen months?


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: here we are 2+ years later
akalefty @ 4/21/2008 1:35:52 PM # Q
Only for DoCoMo, specifically. Expect, as I've already said several times, the first ALP phones to start coming out this summer...

RE: here we are 2+ years later
hkklife @ 4/21/2008 3:37:05 PM # Q
So, presumably (I know it's beyond Access' control, but...) the Samsung SGH-i800 is still slated to launch on Orange ~June?

Lefty, any rumblings/word of any additional carriers or alternate handsets yet that you can comment on?

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: here we are 2+ years later
akalefty @ 4/21/2008 4:25:25 PM # Q
Not that I'm in a position to comment on at the moment, no. I thought that the folks who'd been obsessing over the word "study" in the previous DoCoMo-related announcement could use the update...

RE: here we are 2+ years later
PenguinPowered @ 4/21/2008 11:25:54 PM # Q
Expect the first ALP phones to start coming out this summer

Would that be Northern or Southern Hemisphere Summer?

*ducks*

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: here we are 2+ years later
twrock @ 4/22/2008 11:12:15 AM # Q
So Lefty, out of the blue I see your name pop up in an article about Gnash. OMNow board member, eh? You are a busy boy.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: here we are 2+ years later
akalefty @ 4/22/2008 12:25:03 PM # Q
You have no idea. I've been on the road three weeks out of the past four, five out of the last seven. I'll be in Las Vegas to be on a panel at InterOp next week, and then in Tokyo for two weeks (yay!) two weeks after that...

And yes, I was invited by Rob Savoye, the architect of GNASH and a good friend, to join John Gilmore and Bob Youngas a member of the Open Media Now! Foundation board. We've since added Bdale Garbee of Hewlett-Packard since then. I'm excited about OMNF, and about the prospects for GNASH (and open media in general) moving forward.

You can check out the OMNF web site (a work in progress) at http://www.openmedianow.org/


Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass:

Latest Comments