Comments on: Treo 650 Ranks High on SAR Report
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RE: 10 lowest
OS made a difference?
RE: OS made a difference?
I would say this is a RF hardware and system design issue, and not that related to software.
RE: OS made a difference?
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their profits.
RE: OS made a difference?
* The radio transmitter.
* The structure/shape of the phone.
* The structure/shape/placement of the antenna.
Now, I could see that the OS could effect the SAR ratting. However, it would be very low level code, not a part that one would think of being a part of the user experience, and a part that could easily be in common between two devices that use the same user level OS but the same software. I am talking of the part of the OS that would be driving the radio (telling it when to turn on, to transmit, to change power levels, etc.)
So, in general, we have an "apples to oranges" type comparison going on here. To be "apples to apples" we need to have two phone models that have IDENTICAL hardware, but different OSs, and identical phone feature sets. The closest that I can think of would be the Palm 700w vs. the 700p. However the are obviously some minor hardware differences. Are there also some major hardware differences or some feature set differences? Quite possibly. Does anyone know of a better example?
Checking, from VerizonWireless's pages:
* 700p: SAR 1.48 at ear, 0.896 on body. http://tinyurl.com/gyjms
* 700w: SAR 1.26 at ear, 1.01 on body. http://tinyurl.com/c75gb
RE: OS made a difference?
Despite their respective OSes handling memory in different fashions, their physical memory architecture is apparently the same (2x64mb NAND chips for each?) though the 700W may have (WinMob users correct me if I am wrong) some extra MBs (~25mb out of a 32mb module) of free storage memory that I don't see accounted for anywhere on the 700P.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: OS made a difference?
Dual boot devices (PalmOS + Windows Mobile) already here!
Yes, this can be done. In fact, the Oswin vaporphone that supposedly was released in 2005 was designed to run either OS and could be made to switch OSes wit the proper loaders installed.
In reality though, a dual boot device is redundant: an advanced Windows Media smartphone + a copy of StyleTap Platform makes a lot more sense and creates a LOT less headaches for the device developer
TVoR
RE: OS made a difference?
How would a 240*240 WinMob device running styletap handle a native 320*320 Palm app?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: OS made a difference?
Re: StyleTap on 240 x 240, some apps would probably run, but you'd need to scale them either up or down depending on whether they ran in low res or high res. It probably wouldn't be great visually. From what I've heard of StyleTap, it's best if you run it on a VGA PPC in non-scaled mode.
Good reception
I wonder if the radio signal strenght can be tweaked using some kind of software.
Handspring Visor -> m505 -> Zire71 -> Zire72 -> Treo650
RE: Good reception
Fish
But is it dangerous
RE: But is it dangerous
RE: But is it dangerous
not worth the dork factor.
RE: But is it dangerous
SO...ah...what's the SAR of a bluetooth earplug?...
I have never seen a SAR ratting of a Bluetooth headset, however some thoughts:
* The SAR rating should be related to the power of the radio transmitter and to the distance from the body. The greater the power of the transmitter, the greater the SAR (I would expect a linear relationship). The greater the distance, the lesser the SAR (I would expect an inverse-square relationship).
* The typical cell phone handset has a 350 mW transmitter (Note: very crude recollection).
* The typical Bluetooth headset has a 1 mW transmitter (class 3) or possibly a 2.5 mW transmitter (class 2).
* I do not know where the antenna is in the typical Bluetooth headset. I would assume that it would be in be body of the headset, that which is typically behind the user's ear. This would put it as close to use's body as possible, thus increasing the SAR. However I could see that they could the antenna in the mic boom, thus minimizing the SAR.
RE: But is it dangerous
RE: But is it dangerous
Like...uh...exponentially?
That is .001 at a centimeter becomes, you know, .01 at half a centimeter and .1 at a quarter centimeter and 1 at something approaching a millimeter...etc.
Right?
[there are those of us, of course, who don't think cellphones themselves are in the least bit hazardous so this is really all moot w.r.t. bluetooth earbuds...but fun none-the-less!]
RE: But is it dangerous
If the transmitter and receiver were infinitesimally small (points) then this generality would always hold. With this assumption, if the power were .001 at 1 cm then it would be .004 at 0.5 cm. At 0.25 cm it would be 0.016. At 1 mm it would be 0.1.
RE: But is it dangerous
SAR isn't a fixed rating, it's a calculation assuming a certain placement of a device. For instance, that .001 for the BT headset assumes that you're wearing the headset. To get significantly higher than that, you'd have to have the headset implanted in your brain.
RE: But is it dangerous
...don't give them any ideas...
GO MOTOROLA!!!!!!
GO MOTO?!?
Thank god I ditched their stupid flipphones..
haha...
RE: GO MOTOROLA!!!!!!
Earbud
Does using an Earbud make a difference? I hope so. I don't want a grapefruit growing in my head.
RE: Earbud
From Los Angeles to London, few people spending more time on the phone than the flamboyant British billionaire, Richard Branson.
Richard Branson (British Billionaire): Hello, it's Richard Branson.
Ross: The man who created the Virgin Records and Virgin Air business empires. (Visual Virgin Records, Virgin Air)
The man who four times tried to go around the world in a hot-air balloon. Richard Branson has become rich and famous by taking lots of risks. But one risk he says he won't take, is with his cell phone.
Branson: Do not put the phone up to your ear, because it could fry your brain.
Ross: Branson won't put a cell phone any where near his head; using a small head set contraption instead.
Branson: There's the phone, there's the ear piece and just keep--keep the phone away from the body. You put the ear piece in the ear--either ear and you've got the little microphone here and you can talk.
Ross: It's something he's done ever since a close friend, who was a heavy user of cell phones, died of brain cancer.
RE: Earbud
So your Ph.D./M.D. tells you that digital is any safer??? Who cares what date it was published? The same concerns and unresolved issues remain today.
Look at the spike in cancer rates over the last 20 years. Coincidence?
"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." - "Fight Club"
RE: Earbud
Point one, it's a spike in cancer diagnoses, not neccessarily in cancer rates. We know how to detect cancer better now, so we may or may not be finding more of them that would otherwise have been missed.
Point two, there have been a lot of new carcinogenic sources introduced over the last 20 years, from mercury-bearing vaccines to sweeteners and back, so you can't put the whole situation on cellular phones.
I'm not saying cell phones can't or don't cause cancer: actually, I think you can be fairly confident that they can. But like most things which CAN cause cancer, you're probably not in that much danger if you don't go nuts. Radium can cause cancer too, but that's not a reason to throw out your old grandfather clock with the luminous dial. Most people don't apprecciate the fact that there's a considerable safety margin for most harmful things. You can actually have your picture taken in front of reactor number four at the V. I. Lenin Memorial Chernobyl Nuclear Power Station without endangering yourself, if you don't stick around too long.
RE: Earbud
This sig is a placeholder till I come up with something good
RE: Earbud
Are you planning on upgrading to the 700P?
Or are you still pleased with your 650?
IIRC the old StarTac & MicroTacs (not sure if just the earlier analog-only ones or the newer tri-mode variants) had the highest SAR emissions amongst "popular" phones of any recent vintage.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX
RE: Earbud
Does using an Earbud make a difference?
Yes, for the user has moved the transmitter from their head and potential further from their body. Thus the absorbed electromagnetic radiation is reduced. Now the wire of the ear buds would act as a conduit for some of the transmitted power. But I would expect that to be very small.
RE: Earbud
In general the SAR of a phone in analog mode is greater than in digital mode. Reasons for this:
* Analog handset transmitters operate at 500 mW, where as digital operator at 350 mW. (Note: Very curd recollection.)
* When connected, analog cell phone transmitters are continuously transmitting; digital in information packet bursts.
Earlier SAR reports often would give different values for digital and analog mode. However analog's usage is fading fast and thus one typically only see the digital SAR reported.
RE: Earbud
treo interference
RE: treo interference
Got to love that...
RE: treo interference
Good reason to prototype certain applications with all world devices. Then a symbol can be provided to indicate we-com interaction is rock sold.
E-T
e-tellurian
Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com
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