Comments on: Palm OS Java JVM Updated

Palm have quietly released an updated version of the Palm OS Java Micro Environment via their support page. This latest version 5.7.2 includes updated support for the Treos 680 & 755p as well as a few bug fixes.

Some testing on my Treo 680 shows that the Alt key issue has indeed been fixed - pressing it will now pop up a virtual keyboard & character map - and the hard buttons are working again. I didn't notice much difference stability-wise: both Opera Mini and Gmail seemed to play along nicely, but that was true of the previous version 5.7.1 as well. Unfortunately, there's still no copy-and-paste support, but it's nice to see that Palm haven't completely forgotten about Java.

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What is it good for?

swieder @ 7/30/2007 1:33:54 PM # Q
Can folks share some examples of how they are using JVM?

Good God Y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely NOTHIN'!......
freakout @ 7/30/2007 7:17:16 PM # Q
Opera Mini, and Google's Gmail app for me.
RE: What is it good for?
palmdoc88 @ 7/31/2007 1:30:30 AM # Q
Let's see... I have Gmail, Opera Mini, Stockwatch (a Java app for my local stock market), and Minowireless (a client for the Minowireless.com VOIP service which works well for the Treo)

http://palmdoc.net
RE: What is it good for?
linds @ 8/22/2009 11:45:48 AM # Q
One can still download this software at

http://tinyurl.com/58jvcl

as of August 22nd 2009

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Java update

palmdiva @ 7/30/2007 1:34:01 PM # Q
Hmm maybe I'll give Opera mini a try again, since i have not been able to get it to work properly on my 680. Otherwise I'll never be able to bank online. The one thing I miss aboutmy 650 was the older version of Blazer. palm support told me that the new versionwas more secure. I'll say so since ii can't get into most of the sites i used to access with the version on the 650.

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questions

linds @ 7/31/2007 6:54:09 AM # Q
I remember trying to download google's gmail app a few months back and if I remember right it said that it wasn't compatible with my device?

Do you have a link to where you downloaded google's gmail app?


Also how good is the new opera mini browser? Does it do better with scripting then blazer does?

RE: questions
kkbass @ 7/31/2007 10:38:11 AM # Q
To get gmail working on my treo650 I had to "rig" it using the instructions from http://www.thunderberry.com/blog/2007/05/gmail-app-on-treo/
I tried both versions, both work, but I dont know what the difference is between the two.

So does anyone use java on the palm for anything other than gmail & opera mini?

RE: questions
freakout @ 8/1/2007 8:30:12 AM # Q
Opera Mini 4 is very promising, linds. It's still in beta and thus a bit flaky, but it has some very neat tricks, including iPhone-style smart zooming and thumb-scrolling. Rather than download the full page, as Blazer does, it goes through Opera's proxy servers, which compress the pages down so they don't hit your download limit quite as badly.

It has some odd formatting quirks, and ocasionally Blazer will do a better job of rendering, but it's an excellent secondary browser to keep around. What exactly do you mean by "better job with scripting"?

Oh, and download Gmail here: http://www.google.com/mobile/mail/index.html . You'll need to have the Java machine installed first. Also, make sure you follow these instructions, or otherwise you'll have problems: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9122/#129781

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: questions
blonkythorpe @ 8/1/2007 10:41:02 PM # Q
So I take it that the gMail app is not compatible with non-Treos (e.g., Palm TX)? I tried and I got an error message.

RE: questions
freakout @ 8/1/2007 11:32:33 PM # Q
Dunno, blonky. If you don't have the Java Machine installed, you'll get an error message. If you do have it installed though and are still getting an error, looks like you're out of luck.
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Palm and Java

cervezas @ 7/31/2007 2:04:57 PM # Q
There are interesting hints out there that Java could be much more front-and-center on some future Palm devices. Job postings like this one at Palm.com are more than a little suggestive:
Development engineer for implementation of Java based mobile system software on new product development project. Responsible for all mobile development (design through implementation and release), working with other device engineers and design lead on overall system architecture and design.

Paul Mercer (the iPod OS architect that Palm brought on back in March) has been rather outspoken in the past about networked devices that have native C code "talking to the iron" as is the case in Palm OS Garnet and native Linux platforms like ALP. "This is a ridiculous notion thatís been left behind by history," he said, opining that "on a network device, you simply canít afford native code." (From an article on intel.com that is now only available in Google's cache.) Seems like a remarkably strong statement coming from a guy that Palm saw fit to not just hire, but call major media attention to: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/technology/09palm.html?ex=1186027200&en=0f87de99ee9b8857&ei=5070

Microsoft, RIM, Motorola, Danger: they've all moved away from native C/C++ application environments to ones that run managed code, either in Java or .NET virtual machines. I don't see Palm giving up Garnet compatibility any time soon (any more than Microsoft is ready to stop applications from invoking native Win32 APIs) but it's interesting to think about what all this might mean.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

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The IBM WebSphere JVM? Gimme a break...

CompeauFawkes @ 8/1/2007 8:15:53 AM # Q
This was never ready for primetime, and certainly was never made truly 'consumer-ready' to a Palm standard of out-of-the-box UX.
It's always suffered from:
-Well known installation flakiness
-Extreme size bloat/overhead
-Strange unresolved hardware-specific interface issues

Right from the start, years ago, Palm's team had a quiet internal arrangement to keep Java a second-class citizen platform (I overheard specific internal conversations to this effect), whilst making external statements extolling its virtues.

If they are truly to move ahead in supporting Java more fully, then embedding a fully functional, integrated JVM (not a limp, bolt-on) into the delivered repertoire of devices is required-- not more sound-bite quotables from pedigreed Java Jedis. They've absolutely got to Stop sending customers off to find complex 3MB downloads (which frequently fail) in order to try out a 300KB handy widget app.

~My view... ;)

__
Mike Compeau

RE: The IBM WebSphere JVM? Gimme a break...
cervezas @ 8/1/2007 11:38:08 AM # Q
I can't speak to Palm's internal commitment to Java, but I agree that Java on Palm devices has never been consumer-ready like it is on, say, a Nokia feature phone. Somewhat in Palm's defense, when they first got involved in the Java Community Process the specification was so limited that it couldn't possibly have been anything but a second-class citizen on a device with Palm OS. Palm was involved in the JSR that would have created a more advanced PDA Profile for J2ME and I sometimes wonder where mobile Java might be today if they had continued to push for new specifications that exposed more of the capabilities of Palm OS and other PDA operating systems to the Java runtime.

Today, Java has gone so far beyond what the WebSphere environment supports on Palm OS that it would take a big commitment of resources on the part of Palm and/or IBM to catch up. For example, most recent Java phones have APIs to create animated SVG user interfaces, create/send/view images or audio/video, acquire your location from a GPS, render 3D graphics, and consume SOAP web services.

I'd love to see Palm get back in the driver's seat with mobile Java when they release their new Linux phone platform. Like RIM has done (to some extent) Palm should have a Java environment that is Sun Jave ME compliant, but add proprietary APIs that give Java applications access to native system features that are required to make them first-class application citizens. This would be both carrier-friendly (assuaging concerns about security) and developer friendly (enabling the use of Java tools that are far more advanced and productive than any C language tools). And it would enable Palm OS to leverage the rapid progress in the mobile Java world, which would open Palm OS up to mass market applications that are getting traction with feature phone users.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

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Better than IBM VM?

dserodio @ 8/3/2007 11:01:15 AM # Q
I have a TX, and I currently have the "IBM J9 2.2 ARM" JVM installed, mainly for Opera Mini and Google Maps.

Is this VM from Palm better than the IBM one?

RE: Better than IBM VM?
cervezas @ 8/3/2007 11:29:19 AM # Q
IBM WebSphere JVM = IBM J9 JVM

It's just an updated version. Presumably it is an improvement (there are several bug fixes) and yes, the TX is on the list of supported devices.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Better than IBM VM?
palmato @ 8/3/2007 11:59:34 AM # Q
Actually the new version has a bug which makes the jvm report the wrong screen size when the display area is resized. For instance when changing the state of the DIA.
As a result Opera mini 3 doesn't work right with this update, and other applications may suffer as well.

Therefore TX users should keep the previous one (5.7.1).

Programmers may find further details in the ps/access java newsgroup


--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

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Java is good

SeldomVisitor @ 8/9/2007 12:12:04 PM # Q
As PALM moves into multi-software-platform products while theoretically retaining the same underlying hardware in many cases, it is a Good Thing to be able to run the SAME software applications on all. The recently-announced LogMeIn, for example, is one of those - a Java Application/Applet that runs under a browser - not a "native" application - though the PR-fluff(s) say "for Fooleo", in reality it probably also runs under just about any Java/Browser environment with minimal change.

Some may be aware that I dabble in stocks now and then (...). To do that and to do it within a timeframe of seconds or minutes, for example, you really need a real-time display of stock quote data, etc. For the longest time I've used the fantastic and free QuoteTracker program (my broker bought the rights to it and "recently" started offering it to all users as well - it's that good). Unfortunately, that program is written in Delphi (Pascal, I believe) and only runs on a Windows device - needs IE installed due to libraries, etc etc etc. This was no problem for years since I have a nice rocket PC running Windows and had a backup PC running Windows - both compatible.

But The Kidlet is getting older and starting to seriously get interested in The 'Net so often asks to use "the fast computer" for her Webkinz visits, etc. That left me with the backup.

And the backup died last week and the XP re-install with backup restore did NOT go well.

So I said "Screw this!" and installed Ubuntu Linux instead this weekend. Except for the wireless configuration (*) the install went fine and Ubuntu came up beautifully.

Except it's not Windows; it's Linux.

My trading platform was gone.

Though I haven't used it in ages (years and years) my original broker, Datek (merged with Ameritrade), had a somewhat nice java applet called Streamer - it turns out Ameritrade STILL had that available (in enhanced form) though they're pushing their renamed Quotetracker. I quickly installed Java 6 this morning (in enhanced form) and started up the Streamer under Firefox and, tada!, realtime streaming data and trading-platform-functionality running under Ubuntu Linux!

Java is good.

I bet we see a lot more out of PALM w.r.t. this.

==========

(*) Alas, Ubuntu was disgustingly easy to install but a horror to configure the wireless - built-in GUI interfaces/applications, for example, were TOTALLY insufficient for wireless config (like leaving out something as fundamental as channel selection). Instead, I had to do numerous surfs, file downloads, and a ridiculous amount of plain-old commandline crap (like hand-editting /etc/network/interfaces to add undocumented keywords!). Not yet ready for prime time.

RE: Java is good
cervezas @ 8/9/2007 12:32:28 PM # Q
I agree that Java is good and, as I commented elsewhere on this article, that we might see a lot more out of Palm in this area.

But I don't believe LogMeIn is a Java application on the Foleo, since I think we'd have heard something about Java support by now if there were. I'm guessing this was a native version of their remote control application that they developed especially for Foleo.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Java is good
cervezas @ 8/9/2007 12:37:15 PM # Q
Oh... and welcome to Linux!

It took me a while to get my Ubuntu box set up to handle my dual head monitor configuration, but otherwise it's been pretty smooth sailing. I like it a lot and am delighted that I won't have to upgrade to Vista or buy a Mac to have a modern, well-supported desktop OS going forward.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Java is good
hkklife @ 8/9/2007 12:44:57 PM # Q
SV:

Install Vista! If you have reasonably modern hardware and are not concerned with running legacy apps/games/hardware, it's the best execution of Windows yet. Don't listen to the naysayers. It's rock solid stable, beautiful, and really does "take care of itself" and is the closest thing yet to, well, a Mac-like experience on a PC. And wireless connectivity is leaps & bounds ahead of XP in nearly all regards!

Give the kidlet the "backup" box w/ XP on it and spring for a Vista-compliant desktop for yourself. You won't regret it. You can get a dual-core Dell for <$400. Drop 2gb of RAM in it and you're set.

A clean reinstall of Windows is always preferable over a backup restore unless you can run Ghost and clone your main volume.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Java is good
SeldomVisitor @ 8/9/2007 12:48:25 PM # Q
I believe LogMeIn =is= a Java application on the Fooleo - unfortunately, I don't recall where I saw words to that effect - maybe one of the LinuxWorld reports? But I didn't pull that idea out of the ether, in any case, and never would have even THOUGHT that LogMeIn was java-based anywhere had I not read this in conjunction with something about the Fooleo implementation somewhere "out there".

Perhaps this?:

-- http://discuss.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1326626&postcount=10

Or something like, (but not) this?:

== "..."LogMeIn Free" is said to give users access to their remote computers
== from virtually any web-enabled device..."
==
== "...Joseph Eckert, LogMeIn's VP of corporate communications, confirmed
== that the version bundled with the Foleo will be LogMeIn Free..."

-- http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2274337184.html

Strangely, I couldn't find a LogMeIn or PALM set of words directly about this (with minimal re-searches using different search patterns, admittedly).

But, in any case...Java is cool!

RE: Java is good
SeldomVisitor @ 8/9/2007 12:57:28 PM # Q
The TreoCentral article about this also explictily says:

== "...LogMeIn joins with SixApart in announcing compatiblity without
== explicitly offering a native application. Instead, the companies
== worked with Palm to ensure compatiblity with the Foleo's Opera browser..."

Semi-OT-now: RE: Java is good
SeldomVisitor @ 8/9/2007 1:15:08 PM # Q
> Welcome to Linux!

Lol! Actually, I've been doing Linux for years - the PC I use to control my wireless router (itself using Linux software (HyperWRT)) is running Linux - it IS the OS I install when I "retire" a PC. In this case, the "backup" PC is an old 600MHz PIII (the router controller might be a plain-old Pentium!).

With this latest install, however, I got away from RedHat and went to Ubuntu for no good reason - just decided to try something "new". Visited the site, found the CD-image ".iso" file, downloaded it to my rocket, burned it onto a CD, and, tada!, instant Ubuntu up and running direct from the CD at a marvelous 1600x1200 resolution, no less! (have NO idea how it "knew" my setup allowed that, BTW - maybe it checked existing files on the hard disk before overwriting it? Interesting...). From running to installing on the hard disk was a no-brainer EXCEPT for the crucial wireless setup that required an entire day of surfing around and way way too much commandline stuff. Though THAT part was also "easy" to do since I am just about as experienced with Unix as one can get (doin' it since 1977), it took way too long to find out what I had to do, was not an enjoyable time due to many misdirections (people post solutions that themselves are simply wrong), and WAY beyond Joe Blow Toaster-PC-User's capabilities, no doubt.

But it's running now, is at least as fast in many ways as the XP that was there before, is a MUCH better development environment for my goof-off times, and, as noted in the first post of this thread, even has an up-n-running trading platform (though I haven't looked into how to properly set that up yet - just running realtime quotes right now)!

I'm a Happy Camper.

RE: Java is good
palmato @ 8/9/2007 1:23:33 PM # Q
A similar application is available for the iphone and it doesn't use java.
It's a bit cumbersome and a server must mediate between the client and the target device (which makes the whole setup not really desirable in an enterprise environment), but it should work in a web 2.0 browser without any additional plugin.

Yes java is great and highly scalable as it covers devices going from high end servers down to tiny handsets. Unfortunately Palm doesn't get it, and I don't see any sign of this changing.
BTW, I also believe Palm doesn't understand software development very well. But that's just me :-)


--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: Java is good
cervezas @ 8/9/2007 1:27:41 PM # Q
palmato wrote:
Yes java is great.... Unfortunately Palm doesn't get it, and I don't see any sign of this changing.

Don't be too sure: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8841/#135632

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

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