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Comments on: Palm Disconnects Wi-Fi Team?

Rumor: A new posting on the Unstrung site claims that Palm's Treo Wi-Fi team has dropped "some or all" of its members during the recent round of layoffs. One source has told the blog that the entire WiFi team has been "decimated":

"A further industry source says Palm cut senior staff members, including the leader of the WiFi program and another senior engineer project manager. "From our perspective it would be fair to say their WiFi technical team was decimated," the source says."

UPDATE: More detail on the recent layoffs was discussed during Palm's recent conference call.

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Is this surprising?

moofie @ 6/28/2007 12:17:33 AM # Q
Not like they were doing anything anyway.

RE: Is this surprising?
LTH @ 6/28/2007 1:21:34 AM # Q
so there was a wi-fi team... interesting... does anyone has seen a treo with wi-fi ? ;-)


III, IIIx, H330, M515, Fossil, XPlore M68, M515

RE: Is this surprising?
retrospooty @ 6/28/2007 12:53:59 PM # Q
"Not like they were doing anything anyway."

True. Most likely they outsourced more design functions to HTC and other companies that do thier manufacturing/design, becasue their own staff is inept.

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If a Treo Wi-Fi codemonkey falls, does it make a sound?

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/28/2007 12:35:59 AM # Q
"If a Treo Wi-Fi codemonkey falls out of its tree and dies, does it make a sound?"

- Zen Master "Bluetooth" Yankowski
500 B.C.


[P.S. Where's the love for TVoR for this news story tip? Sniff!]


- TVoR

_______________________________________________

Enlightenment at last:

"Separating the concept of the Foleo from the product itself is like separating the corn from my poop. When all is said and done, you're still left with dookie."

RE: If a Treo Wi-Fi codemonkey falls, does it make a sound?
freakout @ 6/28/2007 1:16:54 AM # Q
^^ Sorry Voice. I submitted this about, oh, 30 seconds before you made your post in the other thread. But we can add you to the Posted By line if you like... just tell us your name. ;)
RE: If a Treo Wi-Fi codemonkey falls, does it make a sound?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/28/2007 2:52:51 AM # Q
My name is...


Carl Yankowski!



[Cue gasps from shocked Palm insiders...]

RE: If a Treo Wi-Fi codemonkey falls, does it make a sound?
LiveFaith @ 6/28/2007 9:36:37 AM # Q
Nice tip there Mr Pinstripe.

Anyway. What WiFi team? It can't take more than a new IT grad and an office assistant can it. Heck just steal the code from that paperweight on the desk with "Tungsten C" stamped on it.

Pat Horne

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Remaining competitive...

feranick @ 6/28/2007 1:12:42 AM # Q
Who's left? I mean with the iPhone coming, how are they going to remain competitive? I thought WiFi would have been one way...

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It Should Be Noted

freakout @ 6/28/2007 1:18:02 AM # Q
That Unstrung were also the ones floating the bogus "Palm For Sale" paranoia awhile back, so take this with a grain of salt. They're not entirely reliable.
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The Disconnected Company

palmdoc88 @ 6/28/2007 5:59:28 AM # Q
Well not surprising from Palm, the Disconnected company which used to make the Connected Organizer.
They've become so disconnected from what consumers want, it's just so sad.


http://palmdoc.net

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The optimist

millydog @ 6/28/2007 7:01:43 AM # Q
I'll be the optimist and say that maybe (or hopefully) this means that the build phase for WiFi is complete and that WiFi has now been developed for the Treo. Breaking up the WiFi team could then mean that only enough developers/staff are required to support and maintain WiFi for the Treo.

They have WiFi in the Foleo and if future Treos are to have the same OS then they could have WiFi too....so this is my guess.

The optimistic Millydog.

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As noted in this comment thread, this makes economic sense nearte

SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2007 7:16:03 AM # Q
-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9482/#134374

Sometimes those pesky "financials" start rearing their ugly heads - PALM has some sort of idea about the future sales figures for PDAs, TREOs, and FOOLEOs; they need to do SOMETHING to make things look rosier.

Of course, there are studies that throw into question the ACTUAL cost-savings of off-shoring labor over more than the nearterm but PALM doesn't have to worry about that, probably (giggle).

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BTW - if this is true what does it suggest about the Fooleo?

SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2007 7:21:40 AM # Q
Uh - the Fooleo HAS Wi-Fi.

If this story is true, does this suggest the Fooleo's Wi-Fi is from elsewhere?

Or does it suggest the Fooleo's Wi-Fi is now lacking strong support?


RE: BTW - if this is true what does it suggest about the Fooleo?
JonAcheson @ 6/28/2007 11:00:01 AM # Q
My guess is that the Foleo uses a WiFi chip already supported by Linux.

No driver development would be necessary if that were true.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: BTW - if this is true what does it suggest about the Fooleo?
hkklife @ 6/28/2007 11:33:51 AM # Q
Or....does it mean Palm may yet be acquired by a company who can leverage its own in-house wi-fi strengths? Someone like.....Cisco or Google, perhaps??



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: BTW - if this is true what does it suggest about the Fooleo?
craigdts @ 6/28/2007 2:39:57 PM # Q
I think we have a winner!

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About time

titan87 @ 6/28/2007 11:21:43 AM # Q
Considering that this team has never delivered a single thing of use for the Palm OS, it is probably best that they be "decimated" and hopefully replaced with a more capable team.
Reply to this comment

The End

sgiga @ 6/28/2007 11:42:08 AM # Q
Here is a very interesting story about another death of a (much greater IMO) company. The Psion. It remains still lives on in Symbian in particular, iPod (sort of) and TomTom. The article has a lot of pointers to Palm. It is really interesting to read how the Psion people regarded Palm and the Pilot in the beginning.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/26/psion_special/

RE: The End
zadillo @ 6/28/2007 9:14:47 PM # Q
I might have missed it (didn't read through the whole thing), but what do the remains of the Psion have to do with TomTom or the iPod? I see the intro paragraph where it talks about specialized "computers" like the iPod, TomTom GPS, etc.... and then says that Psion had planned on specialized mp3 players, gps units, etc. as well. But I didn't see where it said the iPod or TomTom have anything specific to do with them.

I still miss my Psion Series 5; really cool little machine.

RE: The End
sgiga @ 6/29/2007 9:02:07 AM # Q
When Psion was split up, the software people was simply organized into Symbian. In the bedding in the hardware section was an mp3 player, a navigation unit and a DAB radio. Only the DAB radio materialized from what was left of Psion. However, the lead engineer responsible for the development of the iPod at Apple came directly from Psion. TomTom was funded by Psion personell just after the break up. So both iPod and TomTom was based on earlier Psion R&D (sort of).
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Typo

vocaro @ 6/28/2007 12:31:52 PM # Q
of it's members --> of its members

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Who Cares

theog @ 6/28/2007 12:41:06 PM # Q
And again... another story not many could care about... or even surprised about. Are we really surprised?

NO....



Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job.

RE: Who Cares
SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2007 1:28:24 PM # Q
Oh...some of us are at least interested in such things, if not actually caring about it.

For example, if the story is true is is Yet Another Datapoint that PalmOS is for REAL dead? That is, has PALM actually decided that there is no merit in making a compaability layer to some sort of Linux device but will go pure Linux instead?

I don't know!

Just another datapoint, I guess!


Reply to this comment

The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p

jeffhoward001 @ 6/28/2007 1:27:58 PM # Q
There are a ton of possibilities why Palm laid off their WiFi group, with the biggest three being(IMHO):

1) They were over paid, and under delivering
2) They decided developing WiFi doesn't necessarily require a team of FTE's (i.e. it can be developed by a large group, then maintained by a few)
3) The current group was a very large operating expense for something that can be developed through contractors, then maintain by a much smaller team (similar to #2).

My speculations are as inaccurate as the ones on the skeptic side, so I'll stop there. But more to my original point, how come people interpret every piece of news as a sign of Palm's doom! If you applied the same logic to every other tech company, the Nasdaq would fall through the floor... It's almost as if people are trying gather facts for a book on Palm's downfall,

but before it has actually happened.

Or maybe I just all together missed some obvious points... For example a Palm-is-doomed-so-you-better-try-to-project-the-cause-every-time-news-is-leaked memo.

Did I...get...that...memo?

Get a life, and throw speculation to the wind. Chances are, predicting Palm's downfall will in no way earn you fame or fortune, so what's the point? If they succeed, then we all win by having another company producing cool mobile gadgets.

Come on people, lighten up! Root for a American company going up against some big foriegn competition.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo-mini??(like an LD-II with a small attached keyboard??)

RE: The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p
SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2007 1:39:18 PM # Q
What American company!!?

What foreign competition!?

PALM outsources EVERYTHING.

And does it to HTC, Inventec, Flextronics, etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Know where those companies are?

Sheesh.

RE: The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p
jeffhoward001 @ 6/28/2007 3:17:28 PM # Q
What American company!!?

- Palm Inc., I thought that was obvious

What foreign competition!?


- Nokia, Sony/Erricson, Samsung, LG, etc, etc

PALM outsources EVERYTHING.

- Sure they do, and so does everyone else. I'm not about to focus this conversation on who corporation should/shouldn't use outsourcing. I don't have nearly enough education or information on the topic to form a valid opinion, and odds are, you do not either.

Palm's a successful US company, competing with some serious international players. All I'm saying is support the home-team.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo-mini??(like an LD-II with a small attached keyboard??)

RE: The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p
SeldomVisitor @ 6/28/2007 3:25:37 PM # Q
Huh?

PALM is an international company incorporated in Delaware competing with other international companies.

When your products are designed, engineered, manufactured, warehoused, shipped from, and even programmed everywhere BUT the U.S. your company is NOT a "U.S. company".

RE: The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p
analogue wings @ 6/28/2007 6:10:54 PM # Q
1) They were over paid, and under delivering
2) They decided developing WiFi doesn't necessarily require a team of FTE's (i.e. it can be developed by a large group, then maintained by a few)
3) The current group was a very large operating expense for something that can be developed through contractors, then maintain by a much smaller team (similar to #2).

4) They had finished writing the WiFi stack for PalmOsNext and it is now in maintenance mode

IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650

RE: The skeptics on this forum kill me! :-p
cbowers @ 6/29/2007 1:59:48 AM # Q
"Palm's a successful US company, competing with some serious international players. All I'm saying is support the home-team."

Now if they'd only act like it and compete. Palm continues to act as though they're entitled to our dollars without the burden of delivering what we actually want in the product.

Support the home-team... Meh.
Many of us here have, vigorously for over a decade. There comes a point where you give up hope, and reach the point of saying, Just die and move out of the way already, or at least sell out to someone for the slim chance they'll take it somewhere again.

How bad is it, when the 3com days start to look like the golden years.

Easy for me to say, as one from one of those "International" countries I suppose, but screw the home team. They struck out. For the good of the franchise, pack up the team and sell them to new management.

Stamp Nokia all over my TX if that's what it takes. As an end user, and as a developer, I want a thriving platform of relevant products that scratch the itch of both the masses and the vertical markets.

The current trend will have my PalmOS PDA's (and the software I love and rely on to get through the day) will be relegated to the same box as my Sharp Wizards.

How long have users been crying for things like,
-Can I just get wifi in my smartphone please?
-a 320x480 screen is more important to me on my smartphone than a chic-let keyboard.
-Can a brother get a firmware update with things like newer, maybe fixed versions of versamail, or various other updates. This is a software platform right?

Palm's answer, nope, can't be done.

Apple's answer, sure, here you go, an iPhone:
-a 320x480 screen
-Wifi when you need it
-A platform which will be updated along the way, making your purchase more valuable.

How many of those customers waiting in AT&T and Applestore lineups, could of been Palm's if they'd listened to what people wanted, and actually developed on the strengths they had going, rather than frittering them away.

How does the Zen of Palm look today?
Perhaps a little more zany then zen.

MS can take all kinds of jabs for the 5 year road to Vista, but what the heck does Palm have to show for the last 5 years?

I've gotta shake my head when some of my favorite PalmOS devices (not all made my Palm) relied on a Kernel from Kadak right here still my home town, Vancouver, Canada. They still are faster with graffiti and application switching, than my current PDA with 10x the memory, and CPU clockspeed, don't have any faster throughput to external cards, or network devices than the old beloved Pre-OS5 Palm's with only (real) serial ports, or CF slots.

We really seem to love our software or maybe the dream of PalmOS to still be here hoping.

I do think Palm can make a lot of money in new directions with PDA type devices, but not they way they're currently going. I posted a year or two back that it might be in the direction of affordable, durable smart tablets (Startrek like data pads). A market where everyone has a few of them around. Multi-pupose pads with low power consumption e-paper display, mesh network collecting info from your PC's, your phones, and other sensors. Pad's to display your paper on the breakfast table, your ebooks or RSS feeds on the coffee table, your recipes and grocery/todo lists in the kitchen on the fridge, a second display (pad on a stand or sitting on wirelessly on the desk) beside your computer for RSS feeds, email, stocks, whatever (much like the external Laptop displays coming out which show your Outlook mail and other info even when your laptop is off). Cheap enough that we have several, simple enough that the masses use them, unlike where PDA's have grown to with massive hardware stuffed into a box with a small screen because of the battery life, and we make it do *everything* because we can only afford one such device. Rather it should be much like the original Palm "pilot"s. Simple robust hardware, driven by smarter software running on something more powerful that pushes the info to the device.
That! I could get excited about, develop for, sell, take in any manner of crazy directions. Simple but innovative hardware that would really scratch an itch. Can that be said for the Fooleo? How many of those could you sell? Fell like developing for the fooleo? Want a few around the house?

Palm, get back to your roots and do something with them. Get back to solving life problems.


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It's all about 'Battery Life'

joad @ 6/29/2007 12:23:20 PM # Q
Oh, c'mon - Palm was protecting us from wifi on the Treos because they wanted to "maximize battery life."

But then again - they've done nothing but *SLASH* battery capacity (and hence, battery life).

I smell a Palm zen koan........

RE: It's all about 'Battery Life'
joad @ 6/29/2007 12:26:04 PM # Q
If a battery dies in the forest at lunchtime even without wifi - does Palm hear the complaint?

RE: It's all about 'Battery Life'
SeldomVisitor @ 6/29/2007 12:34:21 PM # Q
It's not clear yet what is up, but TreoCentral has two different posts from people attending Fooleo previews at PALM stores saying Wi-Fi was not available. Another post has requested comments from those attending Fooleo previews where Wi-Fi WAS available, if any.

RE: It's all about 'Battery Life'
Ryan @ 6/30/2007 1:30:48 PM # Q
When I used it, the WiFi was working fine.
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Management

encounter @ 6/30/2007 10:45:04 AM # Q
the lack of wifi support on palm devices comes from managerial and marketing decisions, not something engineering related.
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