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Comments on: Treo 700wx Released on Sprint

Sprint Palm Treo 700wxPalm has launched the Treo 700wx on the Sprint Network. The 700wx is a EV-DO capable smartphone powered by Windows Mobile 5.0 Pocket PC Phone Edition. The 700wx is now available for purchase at Sprint retail locations beginning around $499 depending on available discounts, online availability is expected later this week.
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I'm confused - or si PALM?

SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2006 5:58:46 AM # Q
I look at THIS page:

-- http://www.palm.com/us/products/compare/index.html

at this time on Sunday morning and...uh...where's the beef?

Ands didn;t I read on some other thread here that there WAS beef?

RE: I'm confused - or is PALM?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2006 9:02:04 AM # Q
In case that page changes between now and whenever, here're a couple lines from the comparison table and the accompanying note at the bottom of the table (in order: 700p, 700wx, 700w, 650):

memory/storage 2 128MB 128MB 128MB 32MB
processor 312MHz Intel® 312MHz Intel® 312MH Intel® 312MHz Intel®

...

2 Actual memory/storage capacity available to user is 128MB (60MB user accessible), 128MB (60MB user accessible), 128MB (60MB user accessible), and 32MB (23 MB User accessible) respectively

RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
whydidnt @ 9/3/2006 10:30:05 AM # Q
It's just Palm's retarded way of reporting memory on WM devices -- They refuse to advertise the amount of included RAM, only disclosing the ROM. The Treo 700w only had 32 MB of RAM, but the 700wx has 64 (at least reported by early adopters) which should help performance and stability greatly.

WM uses ROM for storage - like your Hard Drive on the desktop, and RAM for program Execution - also like your desktop. Palm tried to be cute with the original 700w and never posted that it was a memory deprived 32 MB of RAM. I imagine they don't see any reason to call attention to that bit of trickery now.

RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2006 11:01:24 AM # Q
$200 for that?

RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
LiveFaith @ 9/3/2006 6:11:29 PM # Q
What is wrong with these people down at Palm? Are they hell bent on crippling every single device with too little RAM until they are swallowed up by people that are willing to spend the $.12 extra and just put enough in at the beginning? This has happened time and time and time and time again and they are still clueless. Another 32MB RAM on the phone would not even register as a blip on the component cost register, yet they keep trying to sell their flagships with as little as possible.

These kinds of additions don't even take innovation, deep thinking, or superior vision. It's obvious!!! Ford and Chevy are in a heap of financial trouble these days, but they've not made this same idiotic mistake over and over like Palm. This is akin to putting a 4 cylinder in 1-ton duel wheel pickup in order to keep the cost down.

These repeated stupid memory and WiFi decisions are about to solidify my thinking that this company is waaaaay out of it's league concerning innovation or just basic engineering and design outside the "bean counters rule".

As sad as I am to say it, eight years after being wowed by the "zen" of the Palm IIIe, I'm about to give up. I wonder if Sprint rejected the W from the beginning and demanded a worthy product that required a $600 pricetag? Absolutely bewildering!

Pat Horne

RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
freakout @ 9/4/2006 6:22:27 AM # Q
Someone refresh my memory, but Palm makes only 6c in every dollar, right? Sounds rather dire, really. Maybe the few cents it would cost for extra RAM really would hurt them badly.

Or maybe it would actually boost their sales and thus, their profits. But maybe that's a chance they're too afraid to take..

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
retrospooty @ 9/5/2006 1:57:59 PM # Q
"What is wrong with these people down at Palm? Are they hell bent on crippling every single device with too little RAM until they are swallowed up by people that are willing to spend the $.12 extra and just put enough in at the beginning?"

totally agreed, although its probably more like $1 for the extra memory when bought in such hig quantities. Its rediculous how they deal with memory. Wifi, I understand. Its not that big of a deal, but memory is cheap as hell and everyone needs it


RE: I'm confused - or si PALM?
e_tellurian @ 9/5/2006 5:59:27 PM # Q
Does your life drive have a removable precision made micro drive?

If we are going to offer customers the choice to store their we-com data on their mobile device, securely, a removable micro drive made with watch precision quality would be a good choice.

Cost is an issue, like the lady with the manicured nails, at times cost is dependent on purpose.

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

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Other notable changes?

hkklife @ 9/3/2006 11:53:19 AM # Q
I haven't been following the wx rumors all that much.

Does it have threaded SMS like the 700p?

Any other improvements/OS updates/bugfixes from the 700w?

Does the telephone side of things seem to be the same as the 700w? I seem to recall reading somewhere that early reports had the voice quality/reception/phone interface improved considerably from the 700w. Any truth to this (Surur etc)?

I wonder what the likelihood of ever seeing a POS Treo hardware refresh would be? Right now we need a 700P ROM update more than anything else!


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Other notable changes?
AdamaDBrown @ 9/3/2006 12:39:17 PM # Q
I haven't played with one, but as I understand it, it does not have threaded SMS.

RE: Other notable changes?
Surur @ 9/3/2006 2:49:19 PM # Q
Interestingly Palm's PDF STILL talks about threaded SMS and SprintTV, whereas there is no sign of this anywhere.

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo700w/pdf/datasheet_Treo700wx.pdf

Also the device still runs AKU 2.2, so the one-handed improvements in AKU 2.3 arnt in there (e.g. navigating to all mail sub folders one-handed).

The increased RAM does really help multi-tasking however, and the device is now fast and snappy (the way its supposed to be).

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Other notable changes?
Ryan @ 9/3/2006 4:04:43 PM # Q
I've only had it for 2 days now, but I can confirm it does not have threaded SMS (just the std MS client) and there is no Sprint TV either.

The memory makes a huge difference in speed it seems. The only other change I noticed from the 700w is it has small icons to activate speakerphone and mute on the call dialogue.

I still had the thing crash on me twice due to program errors (once in IE another time in the mail program) and I haven't installed any 3rd party stuff.

RE: Other notable changes?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2006 4:19:48 PM # Q
> I've only had it for 2 days now...I still had the thing crash on
> me twice due to program errors (once in IE another time in the
> mail program) and I haven't installed any 3rd party stuff.

Gack!

RE: Other notable changes?
hkklife @ 9/3/2006 6:07:57 PM # Q
Will a Treo EVER be released that's stable out of the box, regardless of OS??

Palm needs to seriously hire a few more techs and get to work patching the entire lineup. Every current Treo has at least a handful of bugs that range from aggravating to nearly show-stopping. The TX & T|E2 still need some attention but that's likely to never occur.

If Palm has this much trouble supporting FrankenGarnet and WinMob (and working closely with M$ at that!) how on Earth will they manage their own homebrewed Linux solution? Wait a minute, maybe they won't...

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Other notable changes?
LiveFaith @ 9/3/2006 6:23:49 PM # Q
HKK,

These guys aren't going to develop any Linux OS on their own. They are sucking wind trying to decide if anyone might need WiFi on their phones or not. Their smartfones are as stable as a banana republic govenment, their ALWAYS underpowered and memory crippled. I still think somebody in charge down their thinks that they have a monoply in PIM apps and that alone will keep them in business.

Think about it! A $600 smartfone from VZW with no WiFi (not even 802.11B) and only 32MB of program memory in the year 2006!

I seriously wonder if management is not stealing the last of the golden eggs before trying to dump the Palm carcass on some tech company that is actually serious about market leadership.

Pat Horne

RE: Other notable changes?
hkklife @ 9/3/2006 6:52:36 PM # Q
In spring 2003 the T|C was released. It had 64mb SDRAM, a 400mhz CPU, a 320*320 screen, wi-fi, and a 1400mAh battery. It had a microphone, charge LED, and vibrating alarm.

In the fall of 2006 the Treo 700P was released. It has 60mb available program memory, a 312mhz CPU, a tiny 320*320 screen, cellular EVDO radio + Bluetooth 1.2, and a 1800mAh battery. It has a microphone, charge LED, and vibrating alarm.

The T|C cost $400 at launch. The 700P costs $600 unsubsidized/full retail from Verizon. We're not seeing actual advancements from Palm as much as we are seeing continuous retreads and rehasings of old PDA technology across the Treo line with questionable moves like lesser capacity batteries, mini-SD slots, and the removal of the IR port along the way.

Palm could SO easily hit a huge home run with something like an EVDO'd version of Pat's 800g (with the requisite licensed fro Xerox Graffiti 1 plugin of course) using components they've been using for years on their PDAs.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Other notable changes? Speed?
twrock @ 9/5/2006 10:15:29 PM # Q
Surur said: The increased RAM does really help multi-tasking however, and the device is now fast and snappy (the way its supposed to be).

About a year ago I asked you to honestly tell me if my experience with a seemingly very slow HTC Universal was indicative of the OS (WinMob). You agreed at that time that WinMob was slower than an equivalent POS machine would be. But, I'd still like to ask the same question now that the 700wx is here.

My TX still feels quick to me, paticularly when I want to access PIM data (still the most important function of my PDA). With the equivalent power under the hood, how slow is WinMob vs. POS? How does this new Treo compare with the 700P when it comes to just getting things done?

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: Other notable changes?
hkklife @ 9/5/2006 10:25:53 PM # Q
Ron;

Have you ever used a 700P personally? It's right behind the LifeDrive in LLL-AAAA-GGG. It's almost bad enough to be a deal breaker, especially when switching from PDA apps to the phone mode (not turning the radio on & off but just pushing the phone hard button to make a call).

If the 700P isn't patched SOON I may give up the smartphone experiment and go back to a TX + RAZR combo. That particular combo should give me another 18 to 24 months and then I'll be able to see what ALP & WinMob are up to and make the major transition.

NOTHING will ever beat the blinding speed of the T|C. It was so fast it was like it anticipated my thoughts. App switching and loading was instantaneous on the dear old C. The T3 wasn't bad either.

I've spent some time with a 700W (Verizon) and I can honestly say that a "fresh" 700P is much, much snappier than the W. But add a handful of apps and a few messages to the 700P (basically, get its free memory below 60mb or so) and the 700W seems faster as long it's not multitasking. So the 700w is slower on average but the 700P gets really laggy (even laggier than a multitasking 700W) once you start doing anything with it short of using it as a basic phone.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Do you TRUST you Treo 700p???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/5/2006 11:11:03 PM # Q
Ron;

Have you ever used a 700P personally? It's right behind the LifeDrive in LLL-AAAA-GGG. It's almost bad enough to be a deal breaker, especially when switching from PDA apps to the phone mode (not turning the radio on & off but just pushing the phone hard button to make a call).

If the 700P isn't patched SOON I may give up the smartphone experiment and go back to a TX + RAZR combo. That particular combo should give me another 18 to 24 months and then I'll be able to see what ALP & WinMob are up to and make the major transition.

NOTHING will ever beat the blinding speed of the T|C. It was so fast it was like it anticipated my thoughts. App switching and loading was instantaneous on the dear old C. The T3 wasn't bad either.

I've spent some time with a 700W (Verizon) and I can honestly say that a "fresh" 700P is much, much snappier than the W. But add a handful of apps and a few messages to the 700P (basically, get its free memory below 60mb or so) and the 700W seems faster as long it's not multitasking. So the 700w is slower on average but the 700P gets really laggy (even laggier than a multitasking 700W) once you start doing anything with it short of using it as a basic phone.


hkklife, how is your Treo 700p in terms of stability? Mine is BY FAR the most unstable PalmOS device I've ever used. I routinely see it turning on by itself, hard resetting, draining the battery overnight, etc. Unbelievable. In my 10 years of using PalmOS devices I've never come across such an unreliable hunk of junk. Also the voice quality remains substandard compared to regular cellphones (voices sound "tinny" and "hollow"). I agree with you about the lagginess of the Treo 700p - a $600 smartphone purchased in late 2006 has NO EXCUSE to be so slow. Still, used as a modem (with USB Modem or PdaNet) the Treo 700p seems to work fine. I had decided to give Palm another chance with the Treo 700p, but this is the last time. The company obviously doesn't give a sh1te about its customers - I'll be looking elsewhere for a replacement when my Treo Brick breaks.

TVoR

RE: Other notable changes?
twrock @ 9/6/2006 8:19:12 AM # Q
I can honestly say that a "fresh" 700P is much, much snappier than the W. But add a handful of apps and a few messages to the 700P (basically, get its free memory below 60mb or so) and the 700W seems faster as long it's not multitasking. So the 700w is slower on average but the 700P gets really laggy (even laggier than a multitasking 700W) once you start doing anything with it short of using it as a basic phone.

Hmm..., obviously I don't understand how the memory is being used by the OS. I can understand things really slowing down in a multi-tasking environment based on how many apps are open, but I don't get why that would be the case with the how POS uses memory. Oh well, I never claimed to be a computer geek.

Maybe I should give up on all of these "improvements" and just go back to my IIIxe.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.

RE: Other notable changes?
freakout @ 9/6/2006 8:30:42 AM # Q
Maybe I should be glad we didn't get the 700p down under. Oh well. My 650 has now been alive and kicking for over one-and-half years now with virtually no issues at all. It's been dropped more times than I can remember and apart from a few nicks and scratches it's as reliable as it was out of the box.

The only problem I've ever had was a few months ago, when the phone started turning itself off for no reason. Palm support were quick to identify it as a wobbly SIM tray, and offered me two solutions: they'd mail me a replacement tray with a slightly thicker bottom, or I could just use a piece of sticky tape. I chose the sticky tape. Worked like a charm. :)

Any 650 upgraders care to chime in? How has the 700p fared now you've had time to bed it in?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Reply to this comment

WinMob Momentum Building

Gekko @ 9/3/2006 12:51:23 PM # Q

Soon, there will be no more PDAs, and no more Palm OS.

Soon, you will ALL be using WinMob Treos - and LIKE IT!



RE: WinMob Momentum Building
joad @ 9/4/2006 1:16:25 AM # Q
"Soon, you will ALL be using WinMob Treos - and LIKE IT!"

Ummm... your hand must have jerked on the keyboard Gekko.. I think you meant:

Soon, you will ALL be using WinMob Treos.

RE: WinMob Momentum Building
scstraus2 @ 9/5/2006 1:15:04 PM # Q
More like,

Soon we will all ditch palm once and for all and go buy nokias and motorolas.

It will be a cold day in hell before I combine Palm's shitty hardware with Microsoft's shitty OS.

Palm can die a fiery death if they don't give me a device based on a new PalmOS with 3g, wifi, etc. If someone else does this, I'll be happy to buy from them, but

I WILL NEVER BUY A WINMOB TREO! EVER!

RE: WinMob Momentum Building
twrock @ 9/6/2006 8:26:09 AM # Q
Yeah, if I'm going to drop my Palm OS PDA, I'm not interested in a Treo either. I'll be looking for an alternative as well.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
RE: WinMob Momentum Building
Gekko @ 9/6/2006 8:42:28 AM # Q
>nokias and motorolas.

doubtful. these are garbage. stop being so stubborn with your anti-MSFT zeal and hate. they are not the enemy. your spite only ends up hurting you as you waste time, money, and resources on closed, proprietary hardware/software one vendor solutions from the above. risk your data being stranded on that proprietary island?

Reply to this comment

WinMob 6.0

Gekko @ 9/3/2006 12:55:12 PM # Q

Right now as we speak, behind the scenes, Palm, Inc. is helping MSFT create WinMob 6.0 - making it easier, friendlier, more intuitive. WinMob 6.0 will be a collaboration. WinMob is the future, children. Accept it. Embrace it. Love it.



RE: WinMob 6.0
freakout @ 9/4/2006 6:14:13 AM # Q
Oh, puh-lease.

Personally, I think Linux will eventually win out because it's free. Which variant of it, though, is anyone's guess...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: WinMob 6.0
just_little_me @ 9/5/2006 2:14:15 AM # Q
Free... yes, maybe... if your time is worth nothing...


JLM.

RE: WinMob 6.0
Gekko @ 9/6/2006 8:48:29 AM # Q

JLM - nice point.

RE: WinMob 6.0
freakout @ 9/6/2006 8:51:13 AM # Q
Not really. I don't just mean free as in beer, I mean free as in open. If enough companies keep putting resources into Linux development and they adhere to open-source values then eventually it'll be a pretty badass foundation for pretty much anything.

Time will tell, of course. But I don't think the world wants to let MS dominate the phone market the way it did the PC market.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

Reply to this comment

Way to go Palm!

grimpeur @ 9/3/2006 3:10:01 PM # Q
Three new CDMA models out in the wild and not a single GSM, just a pre-announcement from Vodafone and some rumours of lowrider / nitro.

Given that CDMA is, oh what, 25-30% of the global cellular market and GSM makes up aout 65-70%. Quite bizarre that there isn't actually a GSM Treo being shipped to the EU at the moment, the 650 being deprecated due to recycling laws.

I want a new Palm OS Treo, I have the cash ready to spend, Palm just don't have the device.

RE: Way to go Palm!
hkklife @ 9/3/2006 3:34:38 PM # Q
Palm's a US company and most cell users in the USA carry CDMA handsets, simple as that.

GSM and POS and at the bottom of Palm's priority list right now. CDMA (Verizon/Sprint) and WinMob are where Palm thinks the $ are.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Way to go Palm!
Gekko @ 9/3/2006 4:22:35 PM # Q

i hope that the canadians, germans, and french be the LAST in line for all new technology.



RE: Way to go Palm!
grimpeur @ 9/3/2006 6:59:14 PM # Q
Welcome to the global community guys...

RE: Way to go Palm!
LiveFaith @ 9/3/2006 10:56:12 PM # Q
Last in line for 3 year old technology is more like it.

Pat Horne
RE: Way to go Palm!
e_tellurian @ 9/4/2006 12:57:51 AM # Q
The fact that the advanced portion of economies grew slower as a consequence of some major issue may be why we can not afford as many choices. The issue of price and the purpose for one choice would not be an issue if the mentioned issue ... 9/11 wasn't absorbing so much energy/capital.

Advanced economies are building future choices, so how can they be the last in line? These economies will prototype with nations that have risked their thoughts and build further trade with nations that want choices that assure the digital capital circulating in their system is not lost or stolen.. The core of these thought (people) will share in the wealth of their thoughts thereby sharing more with all economies, whether they can choose or afford more advanced choices or not.

E-T



e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

RE: Way to go Palm!
joad @ 9/4/2006 1:20:00 AM # Q
awww cr@p... now we gotta blame 9/11 for the dearth of Treo innovation?!? Palm can mess up all by themselves and the last thing we need is them blaming Osama for the 32MB of memory in the Treo 650. Stop it!

RE: Way to go Palm!
e_tellurian @ 9/4/2006 2:31:46 AM # Q
Not the point.

The point is advanced economies spend large quantities on R&D. Issues such as 9/11 can slow down the offering of more choices, hence less cash flow to advanced segments of advanced economies. Combine this with US$222 billion in identity theft issues (stolen capital) you can see why we may be getting down to one choice.

Is one choice a choice or a consequence of the product or lack of capital? Lack of capital tends to find excuses like memory issues.

Fire sale opportunism or real choices? Does this affect the whole PDA, PC, and IT industry in general?

E-T

e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
we_tellurian@canada.com

RE: Way to go Palm!
Gekko @ 9/4/2006 8:02:47 PM # Q

canada and most of europe live off of the goodwill of the American people.



RE: Way to go Palm!
ginsberg @ 9/5/2006 2:45:19 AM # Q
Your xenophobia (or is it simply ignorance) is amazing to behold. What hole do you live in, gecko?
RE: Way to go Palm!
joad @ 9/5/2006 4:17:40 AM # Q
Gekkos adapt themselves to many kind of climates. Some can be found in tropical forests, in deserts, near the seas and in mountains.

Geeko/Gecko/Gekko: the boring triad.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/5/2006 11:28:22 PM # Q
And some geckos have adapted to live in septic tanks, wallowing in + flinging feces about.

Please look up the word "TROLL" before you reply to Geeko's posts in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Gekko

RE: Way to go Palm!
Gekko @ 9/5/2006 11:42:07 PM # Q

Someone just called the Help Desk. They need more fax paper in machine #4. Get after it.

You're SO predictable, Geeko.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/5/2006 11:43:46 PM # Q
Take care, little buddy.

TVoR

Reply to this comment

Palm OS gone?

legodude522 @ 9/3/2006 11:54:41 PM # Q
If this thing is any good, Palm OS 5.xxxxxxxx is toast.

Palm m125>Palm Zire71>Tapwave Zodiac 1>Palm Zire 72>Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000
[url=http://yatuc.com/3d_]Zaurus for sale![/url]
[url=http://yatuc.com/y2]Palm screen repair guide.[/url]
RE: Palm OS gone?
joad @ 9/4/2006 1:25:28 AM # Q
I'll take a delightful slice of Palm OS5 toast over WinMoldy bread from Microsoft.

RE: Palm OS gone?
scstraus2 @ 9/5/2006 1:19:07 PM # Q
Here, here.

The equation is such:

if (palm os = gone)
then
ditch(Palm)

Reply to this comment

WM

VampireLestat @ 9/4/2006 5:02:26 AM # Q
Don't you just love how Windows Mobile has spread all over PALM OS Web sites? like a cancer.

I am so (*repeated swearing*) sick of this PALM WM S**T. (*more repeated swearing*).

I want a multimedia oriented Palm OS TX|2 with OLED.

RE: WM
VampireLestat @ 9/4/2006 5:07:36 AM # Q
With a built in camera.

RE: WM
hkklife @ 9/4/2006 9:55:57 AM # Q
At minimum, Palm SHOULD do one final round of updates to their PDA line:

Z23: Same price. Add an SD slot & headphone jack

E3: Same price. Adds 64mb RAM, OS/app update, BT 1.2, CDMA DUN functionality, updated "Palm" branding.

TX2: Same price. Add a charge LED, microphone, BT 1.2, CDMA DUN functionality, more heap/cache memory, and stick with one supplier for LCDs (Sony or Sharp) for consistent screen quality. A small internal storage drive (512mb-1gb) would be icing on the cake.

If Palm released a TX2 similar to the above I'd drop this Treo 700P in a second and go back to two separate devices!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WM
Surur @ 9/4/2006 10:23:07 AM # Q
VL, if you want denial of reality there is always 1src.com.

I notice their announcement in the forums of the 700wx still has not attracted a simgle comment. {In a ghostly voice} Its as if nothing has even happened.....
http://www.1src.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=147

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: WM
Sleuth255 @ 9/4/2006 10:54:20 AM # Q
Eventually, M$ gets it right. They're like a pitbull you see. WM5 was good enough to move me from palmOS. WM6 will be even better. Now, as a WM developer, I can see one more obvious reason to embrace the platform: just push the "target" button, choose "WinCE" instead of "Win32" on Visual Studio and Voila, your application is done! No development IDE re-training is required. This is why developers are moving in droves to the WM platform.

RE: WM
LiveFaith @ 9/4/2006 11:08:37 AM # Q
Slueth,

If you going, then I have no further reason to remain. Where will we get our tech support and hardware hacks from? Now Palm OS is dead. :-D

Pat Horne

RE: WM
Sleuth255 @ 9/4/2006 11:35:22 AM # Q
The community and innovation we love is still very much alive in the WM world. Try lurking on forums like xda-developers (they're HTC specific) and you'll see that same worldwide community at work.

Recently they single-handedly reverse engineered the A2DP stack on those devices based on a leaked beta ROM then turned it into an installation CAB. I was shocked and awed by the sheer effort of an international group of people whose biggest barrier was language....


RE: WM
Gekko @ 9/4/2006 6:59:30 PM # Q

There's no reason for Palm to do another PDA. It's a DYING/DEAD market. It makes so much more business sense to take all that production and R&D money/resources and focus it on the GROWTH MARKET. The Growth Market is SMARTPHONES. Investing in PDAs now would be like investing in the TYPEWRITER market. DEAD!

Now VampireBoy, go out and buy a new WinMob Treo smartphone asap. You don't want your data to be stranded on a dying/dead platform.



RE: WM
Sleuth255 @ 9/4/2006 7:10:35 PM # Q
There's two flavors of smartphones: phones that are PDA-like and PDA's that are phone-like. I subscribe to the latter because they are essentially PDAs that are continually online. No need to deal with bluetooth connections; these devices are constantly in touch. The treo700 series is such a device as compared to say the Moto Q. Essentially the difference is the inclusion or lack of a touch screen. WM6 will bring these two philosphies into a single common GUI.

I opted out of the Treos due to their 240X240 screen realestate. Too small for my needs. My TyTN with its 320X240 screen is much better but still no match for my T3 in that regard. It's smaller size and 700-800kb/s data transfer rate over Cingular's UMTS network make up for this however. There's nothing that compares to Google-in-your-pocket and my T3 never achieved this even using the most advanced phone combination I could locate. The bluetooth protocol is now freed up for other stuff. I have a bluetooth wireless keyboard that lets me choose landscape or portrait merely by how I place my Tytn in the holder. I can respond to emails too and be on IM with my team while I'm typing notes in meetings. I can put on my moto HT820 headphones and phonecalls will interrupt the music.

Or, I can pull out my SIM (another reason to not choose the Treo) and stick it into my SE Z520I if I want something smaller with a bit less capability and then simply leave my TyTN in the hotel room.

I keep saying this: Was POS better? You bet. But, was BetaMax also better than VHS? You bet. However, if you stuck with that superior BetaMax player it wasn't long before you were SOL at the video rental store. We can't always choose the technology that wins you see. I tend to view it as an opportunity to continue doing what I like to do most: learn new things. WM is alien to POS. You have to begin at ground zero once again. The new devices are compelling in their usability though. Yes, WM is bloated but M$ is great at letting hardware bail out the shortcomings.... or maybe they design for future hardware capabilities. Who knows. What I do know is that my TyTN is every bit as quick and every bit as tweakable as my T3 was.

The king is dead. Long live the king.

RE: WM
freakout @ 9/4/2006 7:26:02 PM # Q
Ah, but portable mediaplayers are very much a growth market. THAT is a segment Palm could very easily go after, while retaining all those useful PDA features. Even a tiny slice of that growing pie would be A Good Thing.

Why Palm hasn't even attempted to go after it in a serious fashion (no, Lifedrive doesn't count) baffles me. For instance, something similar to the Z22 form factor with a gig or two of onboard flash, some redesigned hard buttons to reflect a media focus, a 3.5mm jack and some decent transfer software could be quite a nice little mp3 player and not all that expensive. Not saying that's the best idea in the world, but I wonder if Palm have even considered anything like it.

Of course, it's hardly a problem for me since I kinda like customising the apps and so forth on my Treo. I like to tinker.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650

RE: WM
Gekko @ 9/4/2006 7:44:14 PM # Q

And the DVD Player trumped the VCR. And Smartphone trumped the PDA.



RE: WM
Sleuth255 @ 9/4/2006 8:13:24 PM # Q
The only thing you can depend on is change itself.

Just think of the DVD "choices" we need to make soon.....


RE: WM
joad @ 9/5/2006 4:21:50 AM # Q
My only DVD "choice" will be to stock up on the movies I want in the existing format, not buy a HDTV that has me techno-lusting for all the resulting "upgrades" that come with it, and live my life.

As long as I can still get 120v power and the cables to connect the DVD to the TV, my present DVDs will be perfectly viewable for years. The entertainment mafia can take a pound of flesh from someone else. I'll put my money into the latest Treo and good beer!

RE: WM
cervezas @ 9/5/2006 2:40:12 PM # Q
Sleuth255 wrote:
Now, as a WM developer, I can see one more obvious reason to embrace the platform: just push the "target" button, choose "WinCE" instead of "Win32" on Visual Studio and Voila, your application is done! No development IDE re-training is required. This is why developers are moving in droves to the WM platform.

Absolutely it is. But check back a few months later with the ones who have made the move from Palm OS to WM. I did and I get a very different story. I've talked to four different developers who all said the same thing: .NET Compact Framework is brilliant for developers because of the great tools, but the ported applications sucked for users. They were too slow and for applications of any sophistication were too memory hungry to be stable. In other words, they were big problems for support. One company I know spent months doing a Palm OS to .NET CF port only to end up shipping the "Windows Mobile" version of their app bundled with StyleTap. Performance was much better.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Will ALP's complexity slow it down?
freakout @ 9/6/2006 8:47:14 AM # Q
^^ Do you think ALP's going to have the same problems? Or does it depend on which particular ALP environment you're progamming for? (GTK, MAX, Ghost etc)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: WM
Gekko @ 9/6/2006 8:55:59 AM # Q

You'll never see PalmOS on ALP on a device so it's a moot point.



WM vs ALP
cervezas @ 9/6/2006 10:16:10 AM # Q
freakout wrote:
Do you think ALP's going to have the same problems? Or does it depend on which particular ALP environment you're progamming for? (GTK, MAX, Ghost etc)

It's too early to tell about performance, but as far as memory management is concerned ALP has a more frugal approach than Windows Mobile (or Symbian for that matter) in that the system will be able to recover memory from inactive applications by tearing them down after a new app is launched. So I expect the "out of memory" problems that cause WM applications to evaporate unexpectedly should be less of a problem. Part of the bloat with .NET CF is that your code is not running natively--it's all running in a rather beefy virtual machine. That won't be the case for GTK or MAX applications on ALP since they are native. But of course GHost is a virtual machine of sorts that carries some overhead with it. And X Windows itself has a fair amount of overhead--we don't know how much optimization PalmSource has achieved with that. There are also some parts of the UI framework (among other things) that PalmSource hasn't gone public with yet. There's something called MuseXL that apparently is the highest-level of the user interface API and we have no idea what that is or what its benefits or costs will be. Finally, the bane of good performance for both Garnet and WM has been NVFS. We can guess that PalmSource has learned some lessons from that that are reflected in ALP and this is an area with lots of potential for performance gains, but no one outside of ACCESS knows what's going on in that department.

Bottom line: we won't know how ALP flies until we see it finished and running on real devices.

As for Gekko's characteristically trenchant but dull-witted analysis of ALP's future, I'd expect ALP and other ALP-derived systems from ACCESS to appear on a much broader array of phones and other devices than we ever saw with Palm OS. From my conversation with Kamada last month I'd say ACCESS has much more ambitious plans for ALP than PalmSource could afford to even dream about pre-acquisition. And judging by ACCESS's success in penetrating not just the mobile handset market but home, office, and automotive electronics in recent years I don't think we can write this off as idle posturing.

Anyone who doesn't have questions or concerns about ALP right now is a fool. But you pretty much have to be a moron to be talking like Gekko. But then we already knew that, didn't we? ;-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Merrill stock report mentions new Palm OS development
craigdts @ 9/6/2006 2:14:38 PM # Q
Pulled from Palm Yahoo Finance message board . . . interesting stuff when they start talking about what palm will do with its hoard of cash (buyback shares and develop new OS.

"more from the Merrill report:

August Trends

-We are expecting an in-line August quarter from Palm, with strong sell though of the 700p Treo offset by continued sluggish sales of the 700w.

-Our sales and EPS estimates of $386mn/19c are mostly in-line with consensus at $383mn/19c.

November Quarter Outlook

-November tends to be Palm's strongest seasonal quarter, and we expect a robust outlook from management. Our November quarter sales and EPS (ex stock comp expense) estimates of 498mn/$.29 are mostly in-line with consensus of $197mn/$.30.

-We expect Palm to benefit from: 1) launch of the new 700wx Treo at Sprint; 2) upcoming launch of the 750v at Vodafone and Cingular; and 3) potential news/flow of a new low-priced Treo at Cingular. We think the low priced Treo is especially being neglected by the street although it can help Palm proactively segment the market with low-end functionality (comparable to Moto Q) and high-end functionality (touch screen etc.) available on its regular 700 series Treos. The low-end Treo could also help Palm migrate its shrinking PDA user base to higher functionality smartphones. Checks suggest that Inventec Appliance will be Palm's Taiwanese contract manufacturer for the low-end Treo (based on the Palm OS) which could be launched in next 1-2 months.

-As we wrote recently, Palm is underutilizing its considerable cash balance and the board should consider an aggressive share repurchase program, in our opinion. Palm stock is down 43% from its recent highs while the company holds over $5 in cash/share, or 35% of current market value. Even if we set aside about $200mn for working capital and $75mn for in-house operating system development, Palm still has at least $250mn in cash which could be used to buyback about 17% of its outstanding shares. Increasing leverage could support as larger buyback and could be sustained with Palm's strong and consistent cash flow generation ($119mn in free cash flow, up 22% YoY, in recent FY06).

-Another critical, albeit more modest (<$100mn), use of cash could be for Palm to develop its own next-gen operating system (OS) for the consumer-focused Treo smartphone. We believe its relationship with its current OS vendor, Access, is not fruitful and has led to delays that could impact Palm's long-term competitiveness. If, like Apple, Palm intends to differentiate through software and ease of use, ownership of its OS is crucial, in our opinion. (Note that Palm's OS relationship with Microsoft is focused on the separate enterprise segment of the smartphone "market.).

RE: WM
craigdts @ 9/6/2006 2:24:04 PM # Q
In other words, as if the evidence of Palms 10K was not enough for you guys, Palm will NEVER use ALP. You may use it in another manufacturers phone, but Palm is going a different route. It's time to put the debate of the merits of ALP to rest. PALM WILL NOT USE ALP.

RE: WM
SeldomVisitor @ 9/6/2006 2:33:49 PM # Q
You assume that analyst knows something. Why? Because "Merrill Lynch" is the firm?

"November tends to be..." - uh huh, when PALM was in the Christmas sales PDA business.

Low-priced TREO? When? In 2008? Lower than the E62 and as good? Launched in the next 1-2 months!? Even the most rumor-filled PALM-supporter baord hasn't tried THAT yet!

Be Careful Out There!

RE: Whither are we bound?
Foo Fighter @ 9/6/2006 3:17:51 PM # Q
Had Palm not spun-off the OS division they wouldn't be in the disadvantaged state they're in now. As it stands, I don't believe Palm has any choice BUT roll its own platform based on Linux. Either that or go entirely towards Windows Mobile...and given the glut of players in that market, it's hard to differentiate.

PalmSource screwed them to the wall with the Cobalt debacle and an eleventh hour move to Linux (a move that should have come at the outset), with Access continuing that precedence with a catastrophically slow ALP roadmap. I truly pity Palm. They were once leader in this market, now they barely qualify as a follower. More like "lingerer". What they truly need is a home run, category defining product. An "iPod" success that puts them squarely at the head of the pack once again. Or at least out-innovative the innovators.

Aside from that scenario, the only successful strategy I see is to pull a Dell and compete on price, which they may in fact be doing if rumors of this low-cost Treo in the works are indeed true. But those are dangerous waters to chart. And building a business model around "we're cheap" is a slippery slope. Low ball pricing could give them a strategic advantage in the short term, but long term they need to establish a solid leadership role.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
Elitist Snob, www.elitistsnob.com

Whether Palm licenses ALP is not the point
cervezas @ 9/6/2006 4:45:41 PM # Q
craigdts wrote:
It's time to put the debate of the merits of ALP to rest. PALM WILL NOT USE ALP.

That's a non sequitur. Whether or not Palm will use ALP (and I agree that it looks like more of a long shot with each passing month) anyone interested in Palm OS should be interested in understanding the merits of ALP. Nothing against Palm, but I think a lot of folks would be at least as interested in what a vendor like HTC or Samsung would deliver as an ALP licensee as compared to Palm.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WM
AdamaDBrown @ 9/6/2006 4:55:39 PM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
Why? Because "Merrill Lynch" is the firm?

One would hope so, and they seem to get the importance of owning the OS, but then they say something stupid such as suggesting that Palm could make a low-end without a touchscreen, showing that they don't know enough about the actual products to realize that Palm OS requires a touchscreen.

Foo wrote:
As it stands, I don't believe Palm has any choice BUT roll its own platform based on Linux. Either that or go entirely towards Windows Mobile...and given the glut of players in that market, it's hard to differentiate.

What I would do in their place, if they don't already have a Linux-based OS in testing at this point, is buy StyleTap. Upgrade the code using their people to maximize Palm app compatibility on Windows. Then mix this into a customized launcher for WM that has a Palm-style look while maintaining basic WM conventions. Use that as your new OS. Advertise it as "The Power of Palm. The Flexibility of Windows," or the like.

RE: WM
SeldomVisitor @ 9/6/2006 5:26:32 PM # Q
AT this time the stock PALM is halted and PALM has released financial news noting a fairly massive miss due to TREO sale shortfall.

Like I said - is what ANY (young?) analyst says worth the paper it's written on?

Be Careful Out There!

ESPECIALLY when an "analyst firm" pumps up a stock and the stock trades MILLIONS of shares and rises rapidly based on nothing mroe than that.

And then gets halted afterhours with the worst possible news.


The Q effect incarnate
SeldomVisitor @ 9/6/2006 5:32:10 PM # Q
== "...The revenue shortfall was primarily due to lower Treo(TM)
== volumes in carrier retail channels..."

-- http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060906/20060906006009.html?.v=1

Palm is playing out the string...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/6/2006 11:30:44 PM # Q
Actually, Kent if Palm planned to keep selling such underwhelming hardware as it does now it still soon would not have mattered if they retained control of PalmOS. Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, etc would quickly have beaten Palm on specs and price. The days of massive profits from $600 Treos are coming to an end and Palm has no new devices that can compensate for this loss of revenue stream.

Game over.

TVoR

Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/6/2006 11:38:26 PM # Q
== "...The revenue shortfall was primarily due to lower Treo(TM)
== volumes in carrier retail channels..."

-- http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060906/20060906006009.html?.v=1



As I posted here a few months ago, last quarter Palm stuffed its channels and this quarter will have to pay the "ultimate" price for inventory manipulation. By 2007 the unsold inventory will start to reach levels unseen since Palm had to eat hundreds of thousands of unwanted Palm Vx a few years ago...


TVoR

Reply to this comment

Is this Kirvin or Beersie?

Gekko @ 9/4/2006 7:41:06 PM # Q
RE: Is this Kirvin or Beersie?
VampireLestat @ 9/4/2006 10:53:01 PM # Q
hahahahahaha that is so funny.



Reply to this comment
RE: Oofda!
Sleuth255 @ 9/4/2006 8:22:51 PM # Q
So much for the Moto Q.

RE: Oofda!
Surur @ 9/4/2006 8:31:40 PM # Q
SV, arnt they a bunch of loons on that Palm stock board. So optimistic, so disconnected from reality, so ignorant of the rest of the world. Its sad really.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Oofda!
Surur @ 9/4/2006 8:33:56 PM # Q
To underline my point:

{The Samsung SGH i600...}Doe not have that Ipod appeal the treo has. Looks like a nerdy gaget.

Are they nuts or what?

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Oofda!
AdamaDBrown @ 9/4/2006 8:55:20 PM # Q
So much for the Moto Q.

Well, lets see how much this thing costs. Also, whether or not it comes in a CDMA flavor--if it doesn't, the Q still has a sizable NA market.

RE: Oofda! Why stop there?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/5/2006 8:32:21 AM # Q
RE: Oofda!
LiveFaith @ 9/5/2006 1:15:13 PM # Q
I'll believe it when I get my SGH-i500! Tiny screen compared to the HTC. Otherwise more Samsung brilliance, or at least idea theft.

Pat Horne
RE: Oofda!
AdamaDBrown @ 9/6/2006 7:29:48 PM # Q
Turns out it's only tri-band, 900/1800/1900, so little if any chance of seeing it in the US.

Reply to this comment

which one?..the 700p or 700wx

henryhenryhenry @ 9/5/2006 7:31:06 AM # Q
i dont know which one to choose from! i am currently looking on which phone i want, the 700p or the new 700wx? ive been doing research and leaning towards the 700p but the new 700wx looks so nice! can anyone help me make a decision?

RE: which one?..the 700p or 700wx
SeldomVisitor @ 9/5/2006 8:27:34 AM # Q
The palminfocenter site tends to be less biased; someone might suggest to you to get the new Samsung, instead - you may want to visit treocentral.com and see what they have to say vis-a-vis relative Treo features.
RE: which one?..the 700p or 700wx
Gekko @ 9/5/2006 10:49:43 AM # Q

Go play with both and go with your gut.



RE: which one?..the 700p or 700wx
AdamaDBrown @ 9/5/2006 4:02:22 PM # Q
I agree with Gekko--no amount of advice can replace a bottom-line feel for both OSes and selecting what one you prefer.

Reply to this comment

Treo 750v now available for pre-order

Surur @ 9/5/2006 6:11:34 PM # Q
The Treo 750v is slowly edging out from under the covers, and with the September 12 launch imminent, the device has now become available for pre-order on the Vodafone business site.

Vodafone says:

The new Palm® Treo™ smartphone is an industry first, using Vodafone high-speed 3G network and delivering Palm's ease of use on top of the Microsoft Window's Mobile® operating system – all backed up by Vodafone dedicated service for business.

The device specifications should by now be familiar to us, but to recap:

Windows Mobile 5 AKU 2 (with Push E-mail)
64MB SDRAM, 128MB ROM
GSM, UMTS, HSDPA
Bluetooth
1.3 Megapixel camera
miniSD memory expansion
Unfortunately the Vodafone specifications makes no mention of WIFI, but this does not confirm anything yet, as the Nokia E61 also does not make mention of this, despite certainly having the wireless technology. The main surprise is the low price, which is set to range from free to £127.66 ($243).

To read more about this device, which should be available in a matter of days, visit the Vodafone website here.
http://www.vodafonebusinessshop.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=Phones.productdetails&menuactive=2&mnuid=2&sbmid=2.2&prodid=2869

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
craigdts @ 9/5/2006 9:10:19 PM # Q
It also says "Video Calling - Yes" - that would be very unlike Palm. Is this an error?

Treo 750v Video Conferencing
Gekko @ 9/6/2006 8:59:45 AM # Q

Video Conferencing makes sense. I've seen that the Japanese have had it for a while.

With UMTS, you can stream the video data feed in the background while on the voice call. You have the camera - and voila!

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
freakout @ 9/6/2006 9:13:16 AM # Q
I doubt it could do video conferencing 'cause none of those 'leaked' photos have shown us a front-facing camera. It probably has the ability to stream the camera on the back, though - most 3G phones that have two cameras give you the option of streaming either.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650
RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
AdamaDBrown @ 9/6/2006 5:13:45 PM # Q
Could this be the "improved pricing position" Palm is talking about? I didn't think that they were going to offer a low-end Treo, because it would undermine their higher end models, but they may have been a bit more clever than that. Offer their GSM Windows model at a deeply subsidized price, knowing that it can't compete with the higher-end Windows phones like the Hermes and others, while probably maintaining a high list price to remain profitable. That would be pretty slick. It sticks the carrier with a bit more of the bill, but they can extract that in data charges as always.

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
Surur @ 9/6/2006 5:35:13 PM # Q

Adama, why do you continue to insist there is no Lowrider. We've seen it, we know it, we even have the specs.

Its time for you to accept it too.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
hkklife @ 9/7/2006 9:25:35 AM # Q
Foo;

Had Palm not foolishly played the "OS spin off" shell game they wouldn't be in this position.

Furthermore, PalmSource didn't screw Palm to the wall--Palm screwed themselves to the wall beginning, oh, 2000 or so, when Yankowski and co. began dropping hints about separating the hardware & software divisions (see the article Gekko posted the other day).

I personally think Palm's going to cut the PDA line down to two models and go completely WinMob after the POS GSM Treo. They'll add a few new features here and remove a few existing features there (IR port? SD slot?) in order to try and remain "fresh" until someone swoops in and picks them up for cheap.

I still think it would make sense for someone like Cisco or Nortel to acquire Palm. The "trusted" Treo name could then be used on a slew of consumerized & enterprise-focused VOIP handsets (with solid PDA functionality thrown in to boot!) to mount the first serious assault on the cellular telcos.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
SeldomVisitor @ 9/7/2006 10:24:17 AM # Q
"Lowrider"? What's that?

A $300 smartphone?

When the E62 is $100? Or less?

I personally think PALM canned their lowend phone and substituted a RAM-enhanced 700wx so they could meet their "4 treos this year" promise (no overt evidence of that, just my thoughts based on PALM's "clarification" of what "new treo" meant as well as PALM's incessant "$299 sweet spot of pricing" comments).

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
hkklife @ 9/7/2006 12:04:13 PM # Q
That's a good point SV. The question is whether or not the GSM POS "low end" Treo has been canned completely or just postponed until early '07.

Palm's insane decision to completely abandon the PDA market is going to haunt them big time in the next year. A solid line of decently spec'd, midrange tablet-style PDAs like Voice suggested would help Palm weather the storm with the fickle carriers and increasing competition until they could find a buyer for the company. All of those legions of T3 and T|Es are finally ready for replacement one way or another. There are NO compelling alternatives from the WinMob side of the $100-$300 PDA market (those new iPaqs look interesting though) and Palm could have a field day with a small, tightly focused line of solid PDAs, topping out at the "magic" $299 price point.

Here's another company I'd like to see buy Palm:
Sandisk. They're making a strong showing at chasing the iPod and I'd personally buy a Sansa right now over a Nano all day long. Graft the classic Palm PIM apps onto a large flash media player with Sandisk's strong build quality and aggressive pricing and you have an iPod killer.

It's too late for Palm to chase the media player bandwagon but not too late for Palm to be bought and have the best of the Zennish elements shoehorned into a media player. Buying Palm would also give Sandisk a great weapon to combat the Apple phone, whenever it reaches market.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
SeldomVisitor @ 9/7/2006 1:28:52 PM # Q
Well...at least the CFO of Sandisk is familiar with PALM!...

RE: Treo 750v now available for pre-order
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/7/2006 9:47:32 PM # Q
hengeem:
Judy isn't dumb enough to go down with a sinking ship.

hkklife:
Palm could have focused on 3 PDA pricepoints ($99, $199, $299) and had the whole standalone PDA market to themselves.

$299 - TH55-type device with Bluetooth (with all profiles), Wi-Fi, microphone, 128 MB RealRAM™, backup software, file manager, VoIP software, 1.3 or 2 MP digital camera/camcorder, vibrating alarm, metal case, charging light, DVD ripping software, MP3 ripping software, email, MS Office-compatible apps. Integrated cellphone radio would probably be too much to expect from Palm, but a similar $499 model with cellphone capability could easily be developed by an ODM.

$199 - TX-type device with 64 MB RealRAM™.

$99 - Basic PDA with Treo 700p screen (or cheaper), 32 MB RealRAM™, SD slot, D-pad, optimized for playing MP3.

The Treo lineup is VERY vulnerable now that Palm's competition is starting to wake up. All it would take is for Nokia or Motorola, etc to offer carriers a smartphone that could be advertised "free with contract" and Palm's Treo cash cow will dry up - literally overnight. Failure to get new devices ratified by carriers in a timely manner has also proved disastrous for Palm. At least when Palm relied mainly on sales of traditional PDAs to end users the company could predict (and control) their quarterly sales figures with reasonable accuracy.

Palm's only realistic way of surviving long term is to get bought out before the end of 2006. The longer they wait the lower the value of the company. I expect stock price will drop 25 to 30% from August to October, 2006. If the sale does not happen in the next few months Palm should throw all its energy behind customizing/"Zenifying"/stabilizing Windows Mobile and integrating a StyleTap Platform-type emulator into a (tabbed) launcher. Palm could also then release a final series of PalmOS devices as previously suggested using RealRAM™ (to avoid NVRAM headaches) and finally dump native PalmOS devices once those final PalmOS devices stop selling well. (Or perhaps keep the $99 dollar device around until the PalmSource license expires.

There are a handful of companies that could beneft from owning Palm. The problem is Palm's market cap is still too high compared to the intrinsic value of the company. Fortunately, Palm's stock price is about to plummet. If you see Palm suddenly then buying back a ton of (recently devalued) Palm shares, followed immediately by Palm being sold to ****** you'll know why...


TVoR

Reply to this comment

Is this or is this not the same hardware as the 700W?

SeldomVisitor @ 10/19/2006 10:03:11 AM # Q
Just curious - there appears to be some confusion still out here in message board land about whether or not the 700WX really is different hardware or "simply" a different software configuration from the 700W.

Anyone seen the relevant FCC website stuff, for example?


RE: Is this or is this not the same hardware as the 700W?
Surur @ 10/19/2006 3:17:42 PM # Q
Hengeem, I dont need the FCC to tell me where an extra 32MB RAM comes from. Its got to be hardware.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Is this or is this not the same hardware as the 700W?
SeldomVisitor @ 10/19/2006 3:19:31 PM # Q
Based on more than 25 years of post-Computer-Science-graduate-school experience I can unequivocably state with an entirely straight face that a "software reconfiguration" EASILY could more than make for a 32MB difference.

Which is why I asked if someone had HARD evidence that ithere is a hardware difference.

Still asking!...

========

I once worked at a place where there was a web-based interface to allow monitoring and configuration of a bunch of distributed processes - the web-based interface package did NOT include the processes themselves.

The install size was greater than a gigabyte.

Let me repeat that.

A GUI for control and monitoring needed MORE THAN ONE BILLION BYTES in its install package.

I think maybe there were a few inefficiencies there...

[Have you checked the install size for, say, Windows XP lately?]


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700WX SMS problems to nonSprint carriers

SeldomVisitor @ 10/19/2006 7:02:28 PM # Q
Has anyone heard if PALM has supplied non-TREO-resident software and/or servers to Sprint to handle TREO 700wx message traffic or anything similar. According to numerous posts here:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=125673

Sprint is blaming PALM for a sudden breakage in message handling (nonSprint carriers cannot receive, etc). This seems strange unless there is something like a proxy-server (ala the original Blazer proxy) in-between that is PALM-supplied.

Anyone know?

Or does the software internal to a TREO 700WX get updated automatically without user/owner intervention?

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