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    Comments on: Palm Announces the Treo 680
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The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Step Back Pretenders
it is about time Palm started marketing its AV freatures-at least they seem to be promoting mp3 capabilities here. I don't get why they don't market this (and, hopefully a future zire 73 or TX2) as a video ipod killer. RE: Step Back Pretenders
Sarcasm never suited a holy man... Surur RE: Step Back Pretenders
Sigh....anything less than 320*480 is insufficient for my (and likely many other mobile A/V afficionados as well) needs. Why can Palm not realize this? I'd put up with something a bit larger than the TX (but not quite LD sized by any means!) if it meant a huge capacity battery and wi-fi/cellular data connectivity. Forget voice....I want something that I can watch movies on, listen to my tunes, and check e-mail and do light web browsing anywhere regardless of wi-fi hotspot availability. Palm should have been pushing mobile media functionality HARD since 2002 (release of the T|T). Back then the iPod was Mac & Firewire only and Palm could've spent a few $ on good quality amp/headphone jack and something better than RealPlayer for playback software and done pretty well. RE: Step Back Pretenders
Sigh....anything less than 320*480 is insufficient for my (and likely many other mobile A/V afficionados as well) needs. Why can Palm not realize this? But the DID realize this. And thus they gave us the Lifedrive, which had all sorts of little "quirks" and didn't sell so well. And thus was proved Palm's self-fulfilling prophecy that the traditional PDA is dead. But, and I'm obviusly not the only one who feels this way, I think thumbboards are inefficent and a waste of space. Offer a Treo with virtual graffiti instead of a thumboard, and I'd buy. RE: Step Back Pretenders
New product announcement, and still all we can talk about is what Palm shooooooould be doing. At least I lied and acted like Palm is going somewhere. :-) Let's see, how many years has it been now since anything substantial advancement in mobile tech came from Palm? This is like waiting at a redlight that never changes. OT: Surer! Put your Windows CE programming down for a moment and read your Bible a little. Remember how Elijah taunted the prophets of Baal on Mt. Carmel with some wicked sarcasm? I aint no Elijah, but you use the shoe that fits. WASSSSSSUUUUUP FrankyG!!!!!!!!!!The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2006 9:34:55 PM #
Yo, FrankyG! Wassup! Break me off a piece of that sh*t, Dawg! - The Voice of Ebonics (TVoR's streetwise twin) RE: Step Back PretendersThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2006 9:42:03 PM #
Remember how Elijah taunted the prophets of Baal on Mt. Carmel with some wicked sarcasm? And remember how The Voice of Reason taunted the False Prophets in Sunnyvale with some even more wicked sarcasm? 1 Jeffs, Chapter 18 Verse 27: When it was noon, TVoR taunted them: "Call louder, for he is a Chief Technology Officer and may be meditating, or may have retired, or may be on a journey. Perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened." http://www.palm.com/us/company/corporate/executive.html#jeff TVoR *********************************************************************** Palm is in a Catch-22 with the pricing of the Treo 680:The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/13/2006 4:27:29 AM #
Most of Palm's profits come from the Treos.
Smartphone sales are not taking off the way Palm had hoped. If Palm prices the Treo 680 too low it will parasitize the sales of other more expensive models and quickly kill Palm's profits. The Treo 680 is best considered to be the replacement for the Treo 650. No more, no less.
 So is it really just a TREO 650 with an internal antenna?SeldomVisitor @ 10/12/2006 1:56:23 PM #
Inquiring minds wanna know! RE: So is it really just a TREO 650 with an internal antenna?vixensjlin @ 10/12/2006 4:21:40 PM #
with a smaller battery! RE: So is it really just a TREO 650 with an internal antenna?
Infra-red is mentioned in the text but there's no label for it on Palm's pics of the device; I hope Palm simply didn't cut and paste from the 650's specification... Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein RE: So is it really just a TREO 650 with an internal antenna?
It has IR. People were greedily beaming Google Maps onto their Treos! RE: So is it really just a TREO 650 with an internal antenna?SeldomVisitor @ 10/13/2006 7:52:00 AM #
Yesterday during a Forbes interview at the show, Colligan said the TREO 680 "had the power of a TREO 650":
-- http://www.forbes.com/video/?video=fvn/tech/ab_palm101206&partner=yahootix about one and a half minutes in.
Treo 680
how does this differ from the 700p? Will it compete with the 700p? still no wi-fi! RE: Treo 680
I don't need a phone, I need a handheld. In the future, to upgrade my T|C, will I need to buy an unlocked phone without activating it and call it a handheld? Will I have to pretend to talk on it so that people don't make fun of me? Has anyone seen the Sony UX 190? Wouldn't that be way cooler than a Treo, even if it ran ALP? RE: Treo 680
This sucks. No new handhelds. Now would be a perfect time for Apple to create an IPOD/PDA hybrid. RE: Treo 680Timothy Rapson @ 10/12/2006 5:33:20 PM #
I am with RMhurdman. I need a camera and 320 by 480 pixel screen, but I don't need a phone. I need all the rest this has and I want it in a model that is <5x3x.6 inches. Also need to pay less than $350. RE: Treo 680Perfekshunist @ 10/12/2006 7:45:29 PM #
Speaking of Apple, Palm's current offerings remind me of Apple's Macs about ten years ago. They were numerous models with designations like Performa 6100, 6200, 6300, 6320, etc. (like Treo 600, 650, 680, etc.). There were a lot of different models, but they were all very mediocre - each had its own quirky set of crippling missing features. The MacOS they were running was getting long in the tooth, like the current PalmOS. Those were the dark days of Apple, before Steve Jobs came back, trimmed the product line, added new hardware technologies, and introduced the concept of industrial design. I was a diehard Mac fan since the original 128K Mac, like I've been a devoted Palm fan since the original Pilot. I stuck with the Mac even through those dark days (although I did buy a Dell during that time), and I intend to stay with Palm as long as I can. I am growing more curious about what Windows Mobile has to offer, though. Anyway, I'm happy again to be a Mac user, and I'm hoping the day will come when Palm gets its act together as well. Alternatively, I'm hoping (against hope) that Apple will soon offer a PDA of its own or else give the iPod more usable PDA features. Like others who've posted here, I don't want a cell phone built into my PDA (or vice-versa). If I ever decide to go that route (a Treo), I'd want nothing less than a 320 x 480 screen with a virtual graffiti area and no thumbboard. I'm actually reasonably happy with my TX. I like the full-time 320 x 480 display over the slider of the T3, the battery life is far better than I ever got on a T3, and the built-in wifi sometimes comes in handy. What disturbs me the most about the lack of new handhelds is that third-party software development for Palm handhelds has pretty much come to a screeching halt. The only new Palm software these days seems to be heavily geared toward Treos. I guess I'll have to start stocking up on TXs. RE: Treo 680Perfekshunist @ 10/12/2006 8:12:11 PM #
Oh yeah - and Jobs brought us a completely revamped Mac OS, OS X. Doesn't that sounds familiar - waiting (and waiting) for a completely new, built from the ground up OS? RE: Treo 680meeksomebody @ 10/12/2006 10:44:25 PM #
You'd be looking for Jeff Hawkins here. He plays a parallel role to Stevie RE: Treo 680Perfekshunist @ 10/13/2006 12:24:58 AM #
You're right! I'd forgotten about him. What are the odds that he'll sign on again for $1 a year in salary? Now THAT would be interesting, to bring him back to Palm and see what he does with the company. RE: Treo 680SeldomVisitor @ 10/13/2006 7:50:59 AM #
> ...I'd forgotten about [Jeff Hawkins]. What are the odds that
> he'll sign on again for $1 a year in salary? Now THAT would be > interesting, to bring him back to Palm and see what he does with > the company. Oooohhh...subtle...giggle.
Internal Storage / SDRAM?
I understand this Internal Storage / SDRAM distinction as it applies to WinMob, but I haven't seen it applied to PalmOS devices before. What does the SDRAM do for me that the "Internal Storage" can't? RE: Internal Storage / SDRAM?Eternal_Visitor @ 10/12/2006 3:31:31 PM #
uunder PalmOS 5.4.X, the memory structure is very similar to Winmob, with flash memory storing the applications and SDRAM being used to store data being used. RE: Internal Storage / SDRAM?vixensjlin @ 10/12/2006 4:22:42 PM #
Does anyone know the HEAP ram/dbcache size of Treo680? RE: Internal Storage / SDRAM?
I suspect it would be about the same as the 700p as they both share the same memory sizes here... so somewhere around a 10MB dbheap and a 18 MB dbcache capacity.
Presentation...surfmaniac @ 10/12/2006 2:17:16 PM #
Was low key but impressive. If the pricing structure is right, this could be a BIG seller for these guys. RE: Presentation...
Yes, the pricing is the the real thing.
Palm must already have an idea about pricing, and are guageing sentiment from the launch as to whether to go high or low on the price. Palm: hint. go low. you always go too high. Try playing the game of creating great products at great value, rather than the marketing game of squeeze-the-customer-the-hardest that you've been playing the last 5+ years.
This sucksTrafficGeek @ 10/12/2006 2:20:12 PM #
Farewell Palm. I've been with you since Day one (US Robotics Pilot 5000!). But this is the 21st century. I'm walking since you still can't spell WiFi. It's been a fun ride! RE: This sucksTrafficGeek @ 10/12/2006 2:23:33 PM #
Oh and I forgot to mention... -No HSDPA, ...the only thing you got right on this was yanking out the protrusion. RE: This sucks
Don't forget the GLARING lack of a standard 3.5mm stereo headphone jack. They are touting multimedia on this one but with no way to get the audio out of the device easily & conveniently (wired or otherwise)! At LEAST it has fullsize SD and IR and a very solid software bundle. If the pricing is right (if, if if) and the damm thing's rolled out in a timely fashion, it could indeed be a big seller and a nice send off/swan song for Palm OS. *sniff*
RE: This sucks
quote: "Don't forget the GLARING lack of a standard 3.5mm stereo headphone jack. They are touting multimedia on this one but with no way to get the audio out of the device easily & conveniently (wired or otherwise)!" I guess Palm decided that with the massive abundance of decent 2.5mm headsets, earpods and other ways of getting all that multimedia goodness out of the device it would just be absurd to include a 3.5mm jack. I mean - who's heard of a 3.5mm jack being used for *audio*? Didn't they go out with 8-tracks, or wax cylinders or something? Thankfully Palm didn't waste precious space with such a legacy port and went with the industry standard 2.5mm jack so people can make great use of the included PocketTunes and other great features of the device. ...oh, you mean to tell me that 3.5mm is really the standard...? Nevermind. RE: This sucks
@ TrafficGeek Actually it seems to have BT, since the little icon next to the radio signal is a bluetooth icon. RE: This sucks
Lack of WiFi kills this as an option for me. At least they put a full size SD slot, so we wouldn't have to throw away all our memory cards etc. Also would have liked to see a version with no thumbpad in favour of a 480*320 screen. Where is your foresight Palm?
Ugly as Sin Colors
Where's Black, fools? Crimson and Copper over and over RE: Ugly as Sin ColorsColormeweb @ 10/12/2006 5:15:28 PM #
Thats the first thing I thought when I saw the colors. Then I realized that they will eventually come out with a special edition "black tie" version. RE: Ugly as Sin Colors
Don't worry about the colors - the visual design department seems to be where most of Palm's R&D money has evaporated since buying out Handspring. RE: Ugly as Sin Colors
It's like an 80's Acid flashback for The "Reverend" Pat Horne and MikeCon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeEe2jrnDX4
Colors blah blahsurfmaniac @ 10/12/2006 3:46:31 PM #
Don't laugh about those colors. Where I live (So Cal) there are a profusion of young kids (literally and figuratively) with atrocious looking Razors who might go for these kinds of things in a big way. It's all about style and fashion for LOTS of cell phone users. RE: Colors blah blah
...shhhh - don't tell them that the Treo does more than just look cool. It'll spoil Palm's plan to gut the things...
Shiny! (Firefly fans take note!)
Posting this from Digital Life, where I have just got done fondling the new Treos. The photos here do not do them justice.
The red one is *not* garish! It is a subdued metallic finish that is exceedingly nice. The orange (copper, ha!) is OK too, but it's just not my color. I don't like the white one. The graphite is the same old Treo yawn color. These feel very nice in the hand. It remains to be seen when they will actually be available from, I guess, Cingular. Palm has a wee presence. No PDAs showing at all. Nothing but maybe a dozen or so Treos. Oh, and I did get to make a test voice call. Went well. For some unknown fekkin reason, a test txt I tried to send would not go through. (But someone else had also tried and that one didn't go through, either...)
The Bottom Line
$99 with Contract $199 Unlocked That would make too much market sense and a fatal competition killing blow as it would make it the most successful device ever sold in the World. Is that going to be prevented with a $299~$599 Price tag? RE: The Bottom Line
I believe Palm will finally lower the price for treoes. For examples, this treo may only sell for $599.99 from palm.com (unbranded), comparing with treo 650 $699 at the debutting time. RE: The Bottom LineSeldomVisitor @ 10/12/2006 4:30:02 PM #
== "...Chief Executive Ed Colligan told CNBC Thursday the price == point for the company's new smartphone...will be around $200..." -- http://www.amtddj.inlumen.com/bin/djstory?StoryId=Crs29WaebqLqWmdC5mdm RE: The Bottom Line
Right, it is $100 lower than treo 650 two years ago ($299.99 with two years contract.) RE: The Bottom Line
Palm must think masses with this one. Make it the industry standard. Make it the Ipod of the smartphones...Make it so it sells more than what it can be produced. At $299-$599 without Wi-Fi it would be another Elite low volume gadget lost in the middle of high end/high feature WinMob devices. RE: The Bottom Line
Agreed. $100 or less w/ contract, $200-$250 unlocked would be smashing....even $300 unlocked would be semi-devastating to the competition. I honestly don't see how this thing is neutered compared to the 750v/700p in ANY way save the camera and the battery capacity (Well, 128mb RAM would be nice but not a must-have). The lack of UMTS/GSDPA is understood given the limitations of FrankenGarnet. BT 1.2 is here, IR is here, full size SD is here...the charge LED is here. I bet the 700P owners are going to be piised over this one. If this one has good RF performance and no lag it'll make the 700P really look like yesterday's s news. The new phone UI looks very nice as well. Given the limitations of OS 5.x and Palm's penny-pinching R&D budget, this antenna-less formfactor combined with the the 700P 's EVDO & other specs (plus with some more RAM thrown in for good measure) would be the absolute best Treo experience possible utilizing "common" Palm hardware. RE: The Bottom LineSeldomVisitor @ 10/12/2006 5:18:22 PM #
Who said anything about $100 or less with contract. The ONLY number we have is "will be around $200..." which could be anything up to, say, $249 to down to, say, $150. And that could be WITH contract. RE: The Bottom LineTimothy Rapson @ 10/12/2006 5:40:42 PM #
The price is the big question. My first inclination is to put it right at the new Excaliber/Dash. $350 w/o contract, and $200 with. but, Palm has never competed with phones on the basis of price. They always have demanded more than comparable phones. On the other hand, isn't this the model that Palm is selling for $0 with contract in Europe? I never did figure out if that was part of a scam price that was offering a $50 a month plan for $80 a month with free Treo or what. I guess the price is the only mystery left. RE: The Bottom Line
It's been FOR-EVER since I used a Palm (and I was a zealot back in the day). If this thing is really $100 w/ service contract then sign me up! -Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion RE: The Bottom LineAdamaDBrown @ 10/12/2006 9:07:35 PM #
I think it has to be $100 with contract, no higher than $150. Otherwise, they're just begging to be mauled by the sleeker Motorola Q with EVDO. RE: The Bottom LineAdamaDBrown @ 10/12/2006 9:07:35 PM #
On the other hand, isn't this the model that Palm is selling for $0 with contract in Europe? No, that's the Windows-based 750 with UMTS. RE: The Bottom Line
that latest Gartner report said the Q hasn't been selling all that well because of the $80 a month minimum contract. RE: The Bottom LineAdamaDBrown @ 10/12/2006 9:17:37 PM #
Interesting--and I really can't help but smile at anything that causes Verizon pain. Unfortunately, Cingular's data plans are also $45 a month for smartphones, unless they're going to let this thing run on the $20 a month MediaNet. It would be a good move if Palm has negotiated that ahead of time. RE: The Bottom Line
You guys are too optimistic about the price. If unbranded treo 680 only sells $250, how much do you expect they sell the treo 650 ($599 in palm.com)? $150 or $100? How much should they sell Tx? $99? Then how much should they sell zire 72 and zire? free? The price structure is there. Treo 680 won't be lower than $500. RE: The Bottom Line
Absolutely agree with neuron. This thing will be expensive without a contract if Palm's history is anything to go on. The "around $200" comment has got to be the best of all possible worlds... three year contract, methinks. RE: The Bottom Line
Let's all forget the 'with contract' prices, since they are utterly meaningless, and vary from $0 for a multi-year high cost contract to close to unlocked device-only price for shorter cheaper ones.
The only meaningful value is the unlocked device-only price - which will probably be $500. So much for a 'low-ball treo'. I can buy a Nokia E70, which has better camera, wifi, higher res screen, slicker form factor, etc etc etc for that price. At least they finally got rid of the embarassing external antenna.
After several gens, I've gotta ask
Hi all Even though it's got a keyboard, why aren't the screens on Treos designed with 320x480 resolution? Next, why are they so thick. The T|X is nice and slim and so is the Palm Vx, III series and the m5xx line so, why Treo so thick? RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
Thats beco'z the T/X is not a smartphone dude...it does not have an antenna. Would u want your Treo to look like ur T/X, Slim and, bigger??? "Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
I like the thickness - if you've ever had to deal with some of the RIM devices on a regular basis you'll appreciate how the more 'rounded' shape of the Treo fits to your hand. RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
Thats beco'z the T/X is not a smartphone dude...it does not have an antenna. I guess you've not seen any Samsung phones for the past year. Let's take the SGH-P310 for example. It has 80Mb of memory and a 2 megapixel camera all in a package smaller and thinner than a Treo battery. Samsung can make nice, thin capable phones and they make money from them, why can't Palm? The reality is the Treo 680 is a 650 with an internal aerial and more RAM. It has taken Palm two years of R&D to offer such a minor update. Thank goodness PC manufacturers don't have the same mentality as Palm otherwise we'll all still be using 486s with 16Mb of memory. Hopefully they'll get the price of the 680 right but the scariest thing is that there's very little to differentiate it from the 700p. However if the 680 sells in massive volumes then killing 700p sales will be a worthwhile sacrifice. RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
Let me remind you that Treo 700p exist in CDMA flavour only and Treo 680 is GSM only, so no sacrifice here. RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
Let me remind you that Treo 700p exist in CDMA flavour only and Treo 680 is GSM only, so no sacrifice here. Presumably you're aware of the GSM networks within the US. The Treo 680 made its debut in the US and first featured on Palm's US website before any of its European sites. The only thing extra you get with the 700p are the EV-DO and the 1.3 megapixel camera. For people in the US who move around in good GSM coverage areaS, are light to moderate data users and don't care for the camera, the cheaper Treo 680 will be a no brainer over the 700p. In fact, selling the 680 at $200 may trigger some drastic price cutting on the 700p if Palm are to avoid being lumbered with lots of unsold 700p inventory. RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
In addition to 700p price CUTTING, If there isn't some ROM UPDATING going on the for 700P SOON I'm going to be ADDING some weight to my pockets and going back to two separate devices. EVDO & the higher capacity battery are the only honest to goodness benefits the 700p has over the 680. The 680's additional UI enhancements, especially to the phone app, look superb. Its formfactor is superior and the full size SD slot on the side with a cover is a nice touch. The reception should be at least as good as the 700p's and I highly doubt anything can be as laggy as the 700P. Let's face it, Palm basically just took the wind out of the 700p's sails by announcing the 680, just like how the wx has made the 700w look like a bad memory.
RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
>The 680's additional UI enhancements, especially to the phone app, look superb what's this? RE: After several gens, I've gotta ask
Gekko;
Drool over the pics in the link below... http://blog.treonauts.com/2006/10/treo_680_first_.html Early reports are that the phone app is heavily overhauled (in a good way) and that things are even more intuitive and easier to handle than before. No lag either (from early hands on reports--there were no SIM cards in the demo units) Incoming in-call handling is also improved. Even the full user guide is in ROM now! And it's got more available memory than the 700P!
Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid
Really, Palm will sell a JILLION of these. The griping I see here are from people who are diehard PDAers. This isn't aimed at you. I've given up looking at PDAs as nano-notebooks. They just aren't good at that. And a near-single-purpose device like the 770 wipes the floor with all PDAs when it comes to web browsing. I'd never consider a PDA for web after using the 770. Having given up on Kitchen Sink PDAs, I'm back to using my CLIE for its original core functions: PIMs. As I said in an earlier post when word of the 680 leaked, it's a compelling device for me. RE: Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid
What's to compel you Mike? If your PIMs are on your CLIEosaurous S320, and your Web is on your Nokia tab .... then what would this before? Just get you a old freebie Nokia with replaceable faceplates. The Flea Markets have all the WWE Wrestling, psychadelic, and Britney Spears faceplates you could ever want. Pat Horne RE: Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid
Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid Ideally, that title should be intended as joke. But the sad thing is, it wasn't.... RE: Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid
^^ Maybe it's a bit of an optimistic headline, but the entire reason I bought a Treo in the first place was because standard mobile phones were just so uninspiring. Crap interfaces, limited features and tidget screens. I don't think much has changed in the years since. Tim I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight. Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 RE: Samung & Nokia: Be Afraid
Hi, you must be kidding. I would say Nokia doesn't even take a second to look for Palm, most likely Anssi V. even doesn't know that Palm is still alive. They have just presented N95 with GPS, HSDPA, WLAN, BT, 5 MPix and so on in a small package!
Here in Europe Treo 650 sells for ~430 € while e.g. Nokia E61 sells for 315 € with WLAN, BT, UMTS and strong SW package ...and the E61 is already over half year old. Sorry but if there is one brand Samsung, Nokia & Microsoft do not fear, than it is most likely Palm. If Microsoft is a good example to show a successful company than Palm is maybe the one to name if you search a negative example. So far
Design Your own Handheld!!!
Why is it that every time Palm releases a new product many would have bad comments on it??? I'm sure if palm would not include grafitti area, wi-fi, bigger screen on the Treo this means that its a system limitation. Why cant yah all get that in yer heads?? I think what’s nice for all the men and women who want to have add-ons on their smartphones should create their own! Now thats what I call Labor of Love! What yah think dudes???? In that way nobody would care if the other one would have wi-fi, bigger screen, and etc... and we can all sit back relax and wait for another Treo. "Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn RE: Design Your own Handheld!!!
Why not just ditch Palm altogether and design, manufacture and service our own hardware and each write our own OS and firmware. Sounds really good, but actually delivering may be a bit tough. Sorta like a Politicians speech as compared to his / her actual delivery. Pat Horne RE: Design Your own Handheld!!!
I think by offering constructive feedback and complaints we *ARE* designing our own handheld. If it weren't for annoying little pests like the users of their devices and third-party developers, Palm would be offering: - mostly monochrome devices - no internal card slots - no true speaker or vibration - no way to reset without carrying around a paperclip - PIMs with no relation to common business desktop apps - no wifi at all - lousy implementation of bluetooth (they're not much ahead on this) - underspec'd DBcache - maximum 1-2MB of RAM - "any case color you like as long as it's dark gray" and on and on.... Palm seems to enjoy touting that they don't listen to their "power" users and brush us off as asking for the world when we want ~crazy~ things like more than 16MB of usable internal memory in a $650+ "smart" (their words) phone... but then if you look closer they (eventually) come out with firmware that offers a little more available RAM... and then further down the road when they finally release the next units they "suddenly" have about 4x the RAM and 5x the DBcache that they were telling us for about a year-and-a-half were ridiculously unnecessary. Go figure. I don't have the money to start my own handheld company, but I certainly have paid for the right (and duty) to say what works and does not work in something I buy - especially in something so expensive as PDAs and Smartphones. Although Palm loves to pretend they ignore what we say about their devices - I've seen too many mysterious improvements coming from Palm after we've complained. And since many of them were obvious to dedicated Palm users within *days* of buying the devices - the evidence highly suggests that the source of the improvements were from the *users* - not the Palm employees that apparently wasted months of beta-testing time on something other than beta-testing... Bottom line - everyone here is designing their own handheld. RE: Design Your own Handheld!!!
Very Well Said...haha!
"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -Grand Admiral Thrawn
does treo 680 support fat32 ?
does treo 680 support fat32 ? this is very important since this is the topic hotly discussed by treo 650 users including myself. RE: does treo 680 support fat32 ?
They've done dumber things in the past (like remove vibrating alarms...), but to regress back to FAT would be extremely unlikely. RE: does treo 680 support fat32 ?
further to my fat32 question, I noticed that SanDisk got a few different cards, such as Extreme III SD, Ultra II SD, SDHC and etc. I donot know whether those cards are supported or not, or some of them ? RE: does treo 680 support fat32 ?
All "standard" SD 1.1 spec cards....that is, Sandisk blue regular, Extreme, Ultra etc. should be supported. 4gb SDHC cards are NOT supported by Palm officially but I'd yet to read if anyone's had any luck trying one in a Palm device. My guess would be that they do not work. Don't forget that the only Palm devices that ship with FAT32 pre-installed are the LifeDrive, TX, Treo 700P and now the Treo 680.
Also, keep in mind that 4gb SD cards (SD 1.1, not SD 2.0 aka SDHC) are non-spec and while they SHOULD work, Palm's not going to officially take a stance on them. For what it's worth, the numbers of rogue brand 4gb SD cards is drastically dwindling...I think Toshiba/Samsung/Sandisk put the smack down on the smaller asian firms that were producing them (Transcend, Adata etc) and telling everyone to get on board with SDHC 4gb cards.
JobsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/12/2006 10:15:50 PM #
http://www.palm.com/us/company/jobs/
Job Title Category Location Date Software QA Manager Engineering USA - Sunnyvale 10/05/2006
RE: JobsSeldomVisitor @ 10/13/2006 8:03:47 AM #
Does seem like a lot of open positions, doesn't it? Palm desperately seeking buyerThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/15/2006 9:34:50 PM #
Does seem like a lot of open positions, doesn't it? I wonder why Palm is having problems filling those jobs. Could it be because it's temp work? Naw. Couldn't be. The current quarter's financials are going to be a disaster. With no compelling product, a flat market and ever-higher Palm-funded rebates being needed to push their outdated hardware, Palm will be awash in a sea of red ink again in 2 months. I wonder how Colligan will SPIN that? Take a look at these Palm insider tractions from October, 2006. The game is afoot. Release the hounds, Smithers. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ir?s=PALM TVoR The only ones making money off Palm are Palm's Board of DirectorsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/15/2006 9:52:13 PM #
RE: JobsSeldomVisitor @ 10/16/2006 7:40:06 AM #
It's not clear to me that the to-be-reported quarter is going to be more of a disaster than PALM already said it was going to be. One item that might reflect "disaster" without actually showing up is inventory level - that may lag by a quarter (that is, sell-IN for THIS quarter, make the bucks that get reported, but defer til NEXT quarter (or even later) the sell-THROUGH results that are all-important to further sell-IN). The quarter AFTER that, however...[if the "analysts" catch all the one-time increments that might hide reality a little - like selling $60 million worth of land]. RE: What Would Jobs Do? (WWJD)The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/16/2006 9:16:53 AM #
One item that might reflect "disaster" without actually showing up is inventory level - that may lag by a quarter (that is, sell-IN for THIS quarter, make the bucks that get reported, but defer til NEXT quarter (or even later) the sell-THROUGH results that are all-important to further sell-IN). Palm ALREADY "borrowed" sales from the future to make last quarter seem better than it really was. As inventory piles up in the pipeline Palm will be right back to playing the game they did a few years ago when they ended up having to write off a few hundred million dollars worth of unwanted hardware. Maybe if people like Hawkins and the rest of the "insiders" hadn't leeched all the profits from Palm by now the company might actually have been able to develop a product worth buying. Palm is like a baby lamb that has awoken surrounded by a pack of wolves. This won't be pretty. TVoR RE: Jobs
Handhelds (ie conventional PDAs) can always be dumped at a loss or at a break-even price through channels like Overstock.com, the palm.com refurb store, CompUSA doorbusters, or E-Bay. A solid handheld like the venerable T|E2 can be kept on the market for years as a "new" device, tweaking the price here and there to keep units moving. This is especially true in light of the total absence of competition from anyone other than HP on retail shelves and Palm still has the <$200 PDA market all to themeslves. How are millions of dollars worth of excess Treos going to be moved out? What if the carriers don't want them? Sprint & Verizon wouldn't want to sell an older Treo for $100 w/ contract which looks nearly identical to the "new" Treo they are selling for $300-$400 w/ contract. Can Palm pawn them off to independent 3rd party cell phone shops that you see in Chinatown and shopping mal kiosks? Where else in the world outside N. America can leftover CDMA equipment be sent? Korea and Mexico? Even if Palm does dump a bunch of leftover Treos (CDMA or GSM) "unlocked" onto the market for pennies on the dollar, how will the market react? A Treo is a near-worthless brick without a data subscription. To think anyone's going to buy a Treo 650 unlocked and carry it around sans service to replace their T|E due to the slightly better specs is sheer insanity. Most individuals will not want to buy a shady "rogue" handset that they'l have to take to their carrier to activate (I'm referring to CDMA Treos, folks-I know you can just pop a SIM into a GSM device). No one wants to sign a 2 year contract for a disctontinued/refurb/leftover cellular device that might not be fully supported or warrantied by their provider.
RE: BlownJobsThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/16/2006 11:35:56 AM #
hkklife, you've just summed up how dangerous it is trying to serve the cellphone masters. Once you decide to become Sprint's/Verizon's/Cingular's/etc.'s biotch you'd better get used to taking it up the a$$ with no lube (unless your name is Nokia).
Sprint already fcuked Samsung and Sony Ericsson - despite the high quality phones those companies produce. Does Palm REALLY think they are somehow immune to the rules that govern the rest of the market? The ONLY reason carriers give a damn about smartphones is to help shift users into lucrative data plans. Period. (But it's questionable if smartphones have actuallly helped push expensive plans.) Carriers have ZERO loyalty to Treo as a device, brand, or Zen-like philosophy. If a pink RAZR 3/Duo/Quadro/Quinto was released tomorrow sporting features like videophone/streaming audio/streaming video/etc that forced users into expensive data plans, Sprint would drop Treos like a hot potato. Don't believe me? Just watch what hppens in the next 3 months...
Enough with Palm Incorporated. Time for change.VampireLestat @ 10/13/2006 12:45:02 AM #
Time for a new pragmatic approach to the failings of Palm Inc. I encourage all mobile device fans, Linux fans/believers/developers and Palm OS fans to turn their allegiance, financial support and focus away from Palm Inc. and turn it towards Access™. - The Palm brand means nothing anymore. As a community of developers and consumers, we now need to work together with Access™ to develop ALP. Both the commercial and open source communities will benefit. Devices with ALP will be available from different companies, not just Palm Inc. With an increased number of ALP hardware vendors, the likehood of seeing a healthier handheld market alongside the phone market is increased. www.alpinfocenter.com anyone? RE: Enough with Palm Incorporated. Time for change.
Sorry ... already switched development to symbian. Palm had the world in their hands and just couldn't resist the temptation to squeeze. Unfortunately the world is slippery... RE: Enough with Palm Incorporated. Time for change.
Sounds like our favorite french canadian former-Palm-fanboy Vampire Boy is a little angry, bitter, and jaded. RE: Enough with Palm Incorporated. Time for change.fierywater @ 10/13/2006 7:36:01 PM #
Wouldn't you be, Gekko? Palm has done nothing but shatter their fanboys' hopes and dreams over the past year or two.
Nextel as a carrier?ctyonthehil @ 10/13/2006 3:03:28 AM #
For me, the seller is if the Treo 680 will have a Nextel enabled radio. I need my direct connect, but I also need a good handheld. The Blackberry's are pretty much an email machine, then cell phone, then (maybe) a PDA. Give me Nextel support and I'm in. RE: Nextel as a carrier?
Nextell's PTT is beign phased out of consumer applicatoins as part of the SPrint Nextel deal. So your chances of seeing a 680 Nextel are nil.
A 680 Sprint would be interesting, but make that high price of the 700p fall like a gold rock.
Cost: Data and Device & Stability & RF
If palm can get the price down to $150 to $300 with a 1 year contract or "unlocked" they would still need to get verizon and other cell phone companies onboard with cheaper data rates.
Verizon needs to come down to $55 dollars for unlimited data (laptop connect) and 300 or 400 min talk. Right now the price is around $80. In addition, Palm needs to ensure the device is stable... grandma/pa does not want to see resets or have the phone cut off for no reason. I still don't understand why they are having trouble in this area... not like they don't have an os that is a 100 years old... the OS should be freaken stable by now.... Last, palm needs to have a device that can hold a signal...
treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM question
1. I noticed that SanDisk got a few different cards, such as Extreme III SD, Ultra II SD, SDHC and etc. I donot know whether those cards are supported or not, or some of them ? 2. it was mentioned that there will be 64MB memory user accessable, and another 64 MB SDRAM for program/system. what does this mean ? is it 128MB total ? does palm os occupy 64 MB ? RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM question
#1. It'll support everything that's an official SD 1.1 spec card....that goes for Extreme, Ultra etc. 4gb SD 1.1 cards are non-spec but MOST of these sould unofficially work with the Treo 680 (along with the TX, LifeDrive and 700P). Do note that SDHC is *NOT* supported since that is effectively SD 2.0 Also, the Palm's SD bus is hobbled so the extra speed advantages of SD Extreme etc high-speed cards are mostly mitigated...but the extra speed's still nice if you dump large files straight onto the card from your desktop. Lately I'v'e been doing more drag & dropping than Hotsyncing of files. #2 It's the exact same memory architecture as the 700P, just with a few mb more available for storage (this is always a good thing!) 64mb for program memory and ~64mb reserved for the OS and everything else. RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM question
thank you for your comments. but my question is: does treo 680 need 64 MB as its system/program area/storage, so big ? treo 650 only got 10 MB as its system area, right ? RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM question
No the Treo 680 likely has the same memory architecture as the 700p, which is to say ~18mb for DBCache and ~10mb for Dynamic heap. I have no idea why there are a few mb more that are available on the 680 than on the 700P. Maybe more FrankenGarnet optimizations/tweaks?
RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM questionThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/16/2006 4:47:38 AM #
I have no idea why there are a few mb more that are available on the 680 than on the 700P. Maybe more FrankenGarnet optimizations/tweaks? Palm's crack troop of codemonkeys trimmed some of the FAT. Colligan & Co. have 2 months to find a buyer for Palm. If they fail, Palm will self-destruct after it announces the current quarter's sales figures. RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM questionSeldomVisitor @ 10/16/2006 7:44:50 AM #
> ...Palm's crack troop of codemonkeys trimmed some of the FAT... That is my exact inference in the thread somewehere around here about memory sizes..."more" user-space memory obtained not via a bigger physical memory chip but instead by simply removing little used or relatively-unimportant OTHER software (like device drivers) and moving that memory into the user space - voila! "More" memory! RE: treo 680 supported SD cards and 64MB SDRAM question
Maybe something like keyboard IR driver are moved into the ROM? I wonder if the Treo 680 has flash ROM or is read-only like the Zire and m100 cheaper PDAs have been in the past...I think the carriers mandate flashable OS/firmware on their devices so I doubt Palm could sneak by on the 680 in that regard.
Cool, but...
...like many folks here, I'm still waiting for the next "giant leap." I'd like to see a Treo-T|X hybrid: With this device, I think I could stay quite content for some time. :) RE: Cool, but...buckeyetex315-2 @ 10/17/2006 6:03:20 PM #
Unfortunately, being content for a long time is exactly what Palm AND the carriers DON'T want you to be... Palm makes money turning inventory of devices. And the carriers keep you hooked by signing you to new contracts for "new" devices. Anyway, from the looks of your signature, you've never been "content" for very long. :-D I wasn't content either, even though I kept my old Vx for a long time. Just didn't see anything I really wanted to spend my money on. (And I still have the first dollar I earned....) :-D Brent
Memory specs (680 vs. 700)Danceclimber @ 10/15/2006 5:27:31 PM #
Can anyone clarif this? The 700p has 128MB in Total but only 60MB of that is user accessible. The 680p specs show that it has 64MB that is user accessible, but it doesn't say how much memory it has Total. Should I assume that since they have about the same amount of "user accessible" memory, that the 680p would also have a total of 128MB of memory. Or are the specs implying that the 680p has 64MB in Total and all of it is "user accesible"? I don't think Palm would advertise that the 680p has 64MB if it really has 128MB, on the other hand, I don't see how the later would be possible, since there has to be some amount of memory dedicated to the system that is not user accesible.
RE: Memory specs (680 vs. 700)
My Guess - Memory
Is 700p getting updated apps?
So does anyone know if 700p will get the updates that 680 is getting? The phone app and the blazer? If not I will be pretty ticked off. Considering the phone app on the 700p is terrible and lags all the time. Thanks for any insight. Michael RE: Is 700p getting updated apps?
The 700p is getting what loyal POS users usually receive from Palm & PalmSource--nothin' whatsoever.
We'll be lucky to get a single ROM update to address the 700p's lag. We'll be even luckier if the BT performance & poor battery life are addressed. We'll be BLESSEDLY LUCKY to receive the updated phone/contacts/favorites from the 680 (in addition to the above). Palm basically used the 700p's GUI enhancements as a practice run for the 680's more thorough reworkings. Palm also used the 700p customers as paying guinea pigs to keep the POS ship afloat a few months longer until the 680 could be finished and announced. Face it, we've been had. I just chatted with an acquaintence this morning who is going to return his 700p and go back to his reliable old 650, especially now that there's another Verizon update for it.
Take with a significant amount of saltSeldomVisitor @ 10/28/2006 8:47:20 AM #
-- http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/28/palm-treo-680-and-cingular-8525-price-and-release/ Around $200. RE: Take with a significant amount of saltSeldomVisitor @ 10/28/2006 9:12:35 AM #
BTW - all the "local dealers" at the bottom of that "ad" are in Illinois...
TREO PROBLEMS!!!!!!
This phone is really nice if your not making phone calls or recieving calls. I bought a TREO 3 weeks ago and this thing sucks!!!! Since the first day i made a call out, it freezes. I went back to Cingular store and they gave me another one to see if that fixed the problem. NOPE!!!! The second one does the exact same thing. I've told and called everyone at Cingular and they really dont care. They tell me to go get another phone. Thats not fixing the problem. The store has told me that alot of people with the 680 are having the same problems. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Think I would take it off the shelve. Why sell a phone with this many problems. Doesnt make since to me at all. If anyone has had these same problems please let them know. I hope I didnt spend $400 dollars to get a crap phone.
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