Comments on: CircuitCity.com Discounts Palm TX, E2 and Z22

Palm could just upgrade all three this way and keep the same price points:

T|X2 - Keep the dog tired form factor. Change color to dark gunmetal grey. Bump the proc to 416 or 512. Heck, 512 & 624 PXAs outta be on the auction block after the last 24 months, so they might save a buck. Update the software & OS version. Wake up and allow OS to handle 8-16GB SD cards. Put back the built-in mic and VR for God's sake!!! All this could have been done without much R&D. Without much R&D seems to fit the biz model these days anyway. Sell it for $299 or more with mkting gimmix.

E3 - Gut the cell radio outta the 750v/680. Change the color scheme. Sell it for $199 or more with sales gimmicks.

Z33 - Get copyright clearance from Pat Horne's Z33. Then take the E3 and remove the BT & SD. Then slap 1GB of flash in for MP3s sell it in four colors, plus camo, pink, and even a Hello Kitty version, all for $99. Market as "MP3 for Responsible Mommies". Sell in VacPaks at BestBuy, CC, K-mart, Gum Machines & PEZ dispensers.

Pat Horne

I imagine an E3 model (Treo 680 without a cell radio, maybe WiFi swapped in its place?) would make sense, since there are no thumbboard PDA's in Palm's PDA lineup anymore. Any kind of updated model would make sense, if for no other reason, to get rid of the 'palmOne' logo that's still on the E2.

Also, I think Hello Kitty has a little more class than appearing on such a low-end Palm :-P

1. Z33--Add headphone jack, SD slot, and SDHC driver. Bundle it with Pocket Tunes and push it heavily as a portable media device. Keeping the price at $100 or below is key. I mean, a Z33 + an 8gb SDHC card could be had for ~$150ish and offer much more functionality than any flash-based mp3 player with not that much more of a tradeoff in size or battery life. Maybe Palm could improve the screen quality slightly but not if it raises the price too much. Again, keeping this thing as an impulse sub-$100 price is critical.

2. E3--Give it 64mb RAM, BT 1.2, and update the OS/bundled apps. This is still a fine PDA for business types wanting to do basic PIM stuff with a bit of multimedia. Maybe drop the price to $150-$175 permanently. Palm could easily throw in a T5-style 256mb internal flash volume + DriveMode and market this thing as a USB thumbdrive replacement for executives/students on the go.

3. TX2--Give it an internal mic and a charge LED (both can be done by changing the design of the top panel of the device. Adding 1 to 4gb of internal flash would be fantastic, especially if done in conjunction with an SDHC driver. Such a TX2 could finally put the LifeDrive out to pasture in the process. Palm needs to give this one a very solid software bundle--maybe PTunes Deluxe or a reskinned CorePlayer or so. Push it HARD as a movie-playing PMP (shown in landscape mode) with superb PIM features and/or or as VOIP solution (see some of the software recommended at www.talestuff.com for what can be done with a current TX + external mic). A larger internal battery is a must as well. The $299 price is fine if the unit is well built and has a solid feature set. Finally, Palm needs to add CDMA Bluetooth DUN connectivity as well to please those POS users who desire the big screen/RAM/wi-fi that a Treo cannot offer.

Slide out keyboards, OLED screens, 802.11g, 5megapixel cameras etc etc. are all unrealistic, unnecessary requests. Remember, we're hoping that Palm keeps PDAs in production--to expect Clie-style bells'n whistles out of Palm is asking far, far too much. (Peronally, I just want a solid POS handheld like #3 mentioned above). These things are still, essentially, retail-oriented consumer-level PDAs. Palm has the <$200 PDA market wrapped up entirely to themselves now, so abandoning it completely to keep flogging the dying Treo horse would be incredibly short-sighted.

P.S. Pat, you ask "how long can retailers really move antiquated gadgets anyway?" Well, last I checked, there are still things like Franklin talking dictionaries and Sharp Wizards and Royal digital diaries on store shelves. If people are willing to pay $50 for a piece of junk like that then of course you'll find people who will buy a Z22/Z33 for $100ish!

Also, just look at healthcare & related fields: PDAs of all ages,shapes, sizes and styles are de rigeur for most people in the profession. I think various HIPAA rules state that these have to store their data internally (ie on a non-removable flash card) and cannot send/receive certain types of data wirelessly etc.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

There's still a chance Palm will not drop traditional PDA's this year, but most likely they will not have any groundbreaking feature. Let's hope the third business brings something innovative.

--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

Z33 buyers don't know what SD memory is. Better to have 1GB on board (hand) that 4GB in the slot (bush).

The thoughts would go something like this: "Look at this Palm. It plays MP3s just like the iPod Nano, but all the organizer and Palm goodies for the same price. Wow! Yeah, but it says here on the box that you have buy an add-on SD memory card to make it work. Hmmm. What's memory? What's SD, shark dung? Where's that at in Wal-Mart? Pocket Tunes? Do I have to add that on too? This is all so foreign. Will I get the right kind? FrankenGarnet 5.499? Forget it, that's to complicated. I wonder if the 2GB or 4GB Nano would be best? After all, Apple invented the MP3 player. Black or white? Oh, look at the time. I'd better get down to the precinct and vote in the congressional election. ...

Pat Horne

You just used the words "hand" and "bush" in the same sentence. You'd better don your asbestos suit b/c here on PIC that's sure to get the heated discussion going for at least a day or two.

I'd LOVE to see some numbers on the % of cell phones & expandable flash MP3 players (like the Sandisk Sansa) where the customer has actually purchaed a storage card. I'd imagine it to be very, very low.

You do bring up a good point about the Z33 and potential customer confusion. Palm's at least on the right track and should continue renaming apps on the standard launcher. They've already gotten "VersaMail" as "E-Mail", "Blazer" as "Web", so now put "PocketTunes" as "Media" or "Music" etc.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

YaKnow, I thot of that bit of verbal confusion when I wrote it, but cast it off as being gutter minded.

Pat Horne

And the mere existence of a new wi-fi Palm with internal mic could be a fairly effective threat/tool for Palm to wield and try to squeeze better terms out of the carriers. And if things don't go so well for Palm, then they can always try to respin said PDA into a PIM/PMP/VOIP handset and sell it at retail with a big bundle of bundled software to do all of the above....or partner up with Linksys, Netgear etc. and offer some kind of rebate on a Palm VOIP phone if you buy a new draft-N router etc.

Apple & the iPhone may have started a trend where the hardware manufacturers try to squeeze the cellcos for better terms/money/feature implementation. Of course, if helps to have compelling hardware ala Apple....something Palm hasn't EVER had with the Treo line.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

http://www.palm.com/us/products/index.html

lists an "E2 GPS" next to the regular E2. But the link just leads to the standard E2 handheld page and nowhere else on Palm's USA site mentions an E2 GPS. It's been like this for at least two months now, btw.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Do you have a source? Source of a rumor? Anything whatsoever or is this just your personal speculation?

Several outlets (Brighthand, Gadgets on the Go, that Spanish Palm fan users' etc) indicated back in spring-summer '06 that a TX2 with 4gb of flash was on the way...and our very own Frank Wilkinson posted in the PIC forums that he was told by someone at Palm tech support (!?!) a few months ago that a new TX was coming in early '07.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Sounds oh so credible... where do I send my money?

JLM.

I agree with the comment further up about taking a treo, remove the cell radio and put a 400 mhz processor, wifi, bluetooth, + latest docs-to-go in it.

I can't tell you the number of times I'm on the phone while doing something with the pda. Bluetooth headsets are not my bag so I want to keep my cell phone and pda separate. Why is this so difficult for the people in california to understand?

---
David

I know you guys have no reason to beleive me. Only time will tell..

Then you have people like me who want a TX pretty much as is (320*480, no keyboard) but with a cellular radio.

Palm should at LEAST do one or the other to appease some of the PDA faithful.

My experiences with Bluetooth headsets have been, especially on Treos, mixed at best.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

... another point that I can't put aside. Palm has been inching it's way from OS5 Garnet to the latest 5.4.9 FrankenGarnet OS. They did not just spend million$ to get back partial rights to the OS for nothing. They are working on something for Palm OS. All I can imagine is they are feverishly at work trying to bring ole' frank into line with new wireless standards, namely HSPDA, BT2, WiFi(G). I don't even think you have to be visionary to see that. All that and more is just to get caught up with the competition. Some kind of device is in mind for their $XX million Palm OS buyback. Will 5.5 be a major uppie? Will they rename it? Will they call it OS Cobalt, Copeland, or Cadillac?

Pat Horne

By buying PalmOS PALm theoretically saved money on licensing, so that by itself would have been sufficient reason to buy it (see the Q207 earnings call transcript on, say, seekingalpha).

Note - I haven't read any prior licensing agreement between PALM and PalmSource/Access but it's possible there was something in there about PalmSource having to do something which perhaps Access didn't want to do anymore (like something more than trivial "support"). that would be the reason for Access to say "Okay, no licensing anymore - you go with it alone for a lump sum instead". But that's pure unthought-out early-morning conjecture for why Access would have wanted this deal.

True.

Maybe Palm just threatened to walk out altogether. Maybe they pointed to the WinMob Treos and said "Well, we don't really need PalmOS anymore" and Access blinked and gave them the deal they wanted.

Maybe maybe maybe...

incoherent ramblings. change the name of your blog to "Diary of a Madman".

Fanboys don't "get it" and may never get it.

The true significant value of PostIt Notes and BIC has yet to be realized.

"It's too late for Palm."

I will say it again, it is absolutely 100% impossible that the mobile computing industry will experience anything other than sustained or explosive growth forever; yes, forever because computers will be relentless in integrating into our lives and improving information technology.

Ever wonder why we have not seen a serious recession in a long time? Computing has added amazing efficiency and incredible economic resiliency to any country that embrasses information technology. Mobile computing will further that IT revolution by bringing the best possible efficiency to individuals and the personal information that they value.

Palm is an innovator in an industry that is critical to future wealth, they have the knowledge to develop new products and they have products that sell well. So how is Palm finished? Nonsense.

I am looking forward to new handhelds in the spring (with or without cellular and/or any other radio technology - wifi being a minimum).

silly canadian fanboy

http://tinyurl.com/ynx6hh

If there are some new Palm PDAs coming out, I wonder which features they'll swap in/out this time, since FrankenGarnet 5.idon'tcareanymore can't handle them all.

I really don't think I do care anymore. I'd love to get a new PDA, but watching Palm dig their own grave for the past 4 years has gotten tiresome. IHMO, they're the poster-child of prioritizing pennies on the share over long-term viability of a company.

-- http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9htfMM80KxFVCEBMC_QtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHZkMjZyBHBvcwMxBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=12cmaf1vc/EXP=1169039804/**http%3a//news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070116/wr_nm/docomo_ds_dc_2

I wonder if it is Linux-powered? (I believe they released like =9= phones from a variety of manufacturers).

-- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070116/wr_nm/docomo_ds_dc_2

look at simulator, still availble on some sites

The reality is Cobalt may be a fully functional operating system but no company is interested in using it.

It may be a technical success but it's undoubtedly a total commercial failure, only one company actually used it and that was one 'proof of concept' device which nobody wanted to commission.

Once again, NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN USING COBALT whether it's ready or not.

Uuhh, if you do know of any company which is interested then get in touch with ACCESS HQ Japan (+81 3-5259-3511).
They can do with the money and may even give you a good commission as a thank you.

NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN USING LINUX, ChiA. NO-ONE. Especially on PDA.
Noone needs multi-user OS on handheld.
Linux development sponsored by Novell, Corel, IBM, Google, etc. and have big lack of Desktop marketshare. Undoubtedly that is a total commercial failure. And this is Palm "future"

Sorry for my bad English, i hope you're got a clue

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Why should Palm ever give any kind of "real" info on the Cobalt debacle? I would actually go so far as to challenge you to find any referneces to Cobalt on the pages of palm.com. As far as Palm's concerned, Cobalt never even exists/existed.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Well you should tell Red Hat that Linux has been a commericial failure. I'm sure it'll be news to them.
I don't see why you come down to specifics of Desktop marketshare, desktop or Enterprise, these companies are providing products which use Linux and these products are actually being bought by customers. Even if Linux has been a failure for them then unlike the then PalmSource, they had plenty of other products and services to sell.

COBALT IS AN UTTER COMMERCIAL FAILURE. No single Cobalt device has been sold to an end-user, not in a smartphone, server, embedded device, desktop, kitchen top or mountain top. NOT ONE SINGLE UNIT.

Money has been spent developing Cobalt yet Cobalt hasn't earned money for PalmSource.
If that's not commercial failure then I don't know what is.

Maybe you should be asking just why Cobalt is so unattractive to all the device manufacturers of the world and what ACCESS should do to attract a licensee.

Linux marketshare on the desktop actually exceeds that of OS X these days

I wouldn't even be going down this road about OS X and Apple if I were you: Apple's just announced record profits and sales of Macs for its past quarter, so OS X is no commercial failure by any stretch of the imagination. Apple has made enough money in the past quarter alone to buy over two thirds of Palm with cash - not that it needs to after seeing what it's done with the iPhone.

Putting it another way, it's sold 1.6 million Macs in the past quarter, more Macs than Palm has sold devices (PDAs AND phones combined) in its last quarter.

21 million iPods in the past quarter - i.e. more iPods in the past quarter than Palm has sold devices in the past four years

How many devices have been sold running Cobalt in the past quarter or even in any quarter?

May You Live in Interesting Times

hkklife: http://www.palm.com/us/enterprise/resources/techsource/faq.html

ChiA: No single Cobalt device has been sold
So what? That's because no single device have been released, isn't it? They just never gave a chance to PalmOS6. Release one, and i'll buy it!

You said: "Access, access". WHO IS ACCESS?!

They just never gave a chance to PalmOS6. Release one, and i'll buy it!

Unfortunately uuhh, it's highly unlikely that a company will spend several million dollars on getting Cobalt and putting it on their device only to find that you are its only customer for a device worth $400.

You said: "Access, access". WHO IS ACCESS?!

They're only the company who own Cobalt. They're only the company you need to pay to get Cobalt in your device:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8216/access-completes-acquisition-of-palmsource/

Is there something else they are famous for?

Ever heard of NetFront? Ever heard of Java on a mobile phone (ACCESS is one of the largest providers of Java environments)?

You might want to browse ACCESS's web site some time. Like this page, which is only the mobile phones that are powered by ACCESS software (browser, JRE, PIM and messaging suite, etc): http://www.access-company.com/products/accesspowered/mobile.html

ACCESS certainly has orders of magnitude more users and customers for their mobile software products than PalmSource ever did. It's a much bigger, more connected company with browser, messaging and JRE software on hundreds of devices, scores of networks, all the major global markets.

PalmSource was a pip-squeek by comparison. A pip-squeek we all held dear, but a pip-squeek nonetheless.

As for Linux market share, I thought we were talking about mobile devices, not desktop. On the mobile side Linux is only surpassed by Symbian for market share, while Microsoft is a fairly distant third:

http://www.internetnews.com/wireless/article.php/3584431

Still think nobody wants Linux on a mobile device?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Linux is second, you're said? I know Archos, I know Sharp Zaurus... eehhh.. anything else of this class devices?

btw, access-company.com, i've tried to find where they are supposed a Cobalt. i found nothing.