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Comments on: More ACCESS Linux Platform Photos from 3GSM

ACCESS Linux Platform at 3GSM 2007José Julio Ruiz from PDA Expertos has just posted a series of photographs from ACCESS' booth at the 3GSM World Congress in Barcelona. José has posted a gallery of shots of from a ALP demo system on display at the ACCESS booth and also a pic of a developer phone running ALP. Also shown are a number of screens of the home screen, Applications launcher and Garnet VM controls. Read on for a few pics and a video, you can check out the full gallery in English or Spanish. Update: A video of ALP has been added.
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iPr0n

legodude522 @ 2/14/2007 12:14:35 AM # Q
It's like porn but better.

Palm m125 > Palm Zire 71 > Tapwave Zodiac 1 > Palm Zire 72 > Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000 + 4gb MicroDrive + Palm Tungsten T|3 (1100mah)
My T|3 is too [i]sexy[/i] for me.
RE: iPr0n
serpico @ 2/14/2007 1:24:08 AM # Q
I don't think so, those screenshots don't appear to be anything special.
RE: iPr0n
twrock @ 2/14/2007 2:08:15 AM # Q
lego's still hoping for some "open cover" shots. Alas, just a teaser with the box all closed up. ;-)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: iPr0n
KultiVator @ 2/14/2007 4:41:37 AM # Q
Bingo - Palm's 3rd business is to develop radical new form-factors - like this new ultra-unportable unit (they may be calling it a development unit - but kids, we know better - it's Palm's new Treo form-factor!)

All that chunkiness and not a thumb-board in sight!

K*

RE: iPr0n
cervezas @ 2/14/2007 1:07:12 PM # Q
I think you're onto something, there. On closer examination it's quite clearly an ALP-powered phone booth! See the coin slot to the left of the screen and the other below it to return your change (you know, for those pricey long-distance calls)? Imagine it with a few pieces of chewing gum stuck to it and you'll slap yourself for not seeing it before!

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

'Simulator'...?

stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 9:09:39 AM # Q
That's not a "phone hardware development simulator", or a simulator of any sort: it's a Marvell development board, based on a Monahans (ARM) processor. These sorts of systems aren't intended to be anything like form-factor.

(In fact there is a thumb board: it's to the right of the monitor, below the 5-way/superkey cluster...)

RE: 'Simulator'...?
Ryan @ 2/14/2007 11:47:19 AM # Q
Thanks Lefty, wish I could be there to decipher these things.
RE: 'Simulator'...?
stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 12:14:13 PM # Q
I wish I was there, too: it's warm in Barcelona. However, I'm in New York this week, for Linux Foundation meetings, where it's about 26 degrees and sleeting...

Well, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it...

RE: 'Simulator'...?
cervezas @ 2/14/2007 12:51:38 PM # Q
Those Fastap keypads are kind of interesting to me. I notice ALP supports full alphanumeric keypads off the shelf, so I can see why it's there on the development board. One thing I find frustrating about the Treo is that it's hard to find the number keys without looking closely at what you're doing. The Fastap key layout gives you a full alphanumeric keypad like a Treo, but with the numeric keys privileged as they should be (for someone who sees voice as the most important app on a smartphone).

I notice we're starting to get these here in the U.S. with the advent of the LG AX490. Ugly as sin, but a company with an ounce of design sense could fix that fairly easily.

http://www.digitwireless.com/

By the way, hasn't Marvell supplied you guys with a "dual head" version of that board yet, David? I'm not sure I could go back to using just one "monitor" when I'm programming. ;-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: 'Simulator'...?
stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 2:00:06 PM # Q
Well, ultimately the keypad's there on the development board because Marvell puts it there.

I think there may be a facility on that board to support a secondary display...

RE: 'Simulator'...?
scstraus2 @ 2/21/2007 7:30:12 PM # Q
Who the hell uses a keypad to dial people's phone numbers anymore? Have you ever heard of an address book application? You're not in the 1980's any more man. About 1 out of 100 calls do I need a keypad. The other 99 I need a qwerty.

Reply to this comment

Interesting

mikecane @ 2/14/2007 9:29:17 AM # Q
Fatter scrollbars for one. But I hate that they took Foo's advice and went with a title bar. What a waste of screen real estate!

As for people here in the US who don't give a damn about this OS, I'm certain ACCESS doesn't give a damn about YOU. There are a BILLION Chinese and a BILLION people in India vs US. It can be a roaring success without us *ever* seeing it.

RE: Interesting
stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 12:39:32 PM # Q
Those are features of that particular theme. All of this can be customized...

RE: Interesting
cervezas @ 2/14/2007 12:42:01 PM # Q
It can be a roaring success without us *ever* seeing it.

I think there are quite a few here who would object to you confusing "us" with U.S.

But ignoring that for the moment, there are so many ways that the mobile market could develop in the U.S. that it's hard to discount the prospect of ALP devices showing up here except in the shortest term (I doubt you and I are going to be the first to see one, Mike).

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Interesting
stonemirror @ 2/14/2007 1:00:42 PM # Q
No, I expect I'll have seen one before either of you guys do.


RE: Interesting
twrock @ 2/14/2007 6:15:20 PM # Q
Those are features of that particular theme. All of this can be customized...

...and some of it is already being customized in Garnet with programs like PalmRevolt.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: Interesting
mikecane @ 2/15/2007 9:45:08 AM # Q
>>>I think there are quite a few here who would object to you confusing "us" with U.S.

Let them object. If I could read the Chinese, Indian, and Japanese languages, I'm sure there'd be plenty of comments likewise on those sites, and it's THEIR right to say so too. Stop being PC, you nit.

It seems there are some posters here who know something about ALP. Do tell.

I hope, unlike that abomination on the Nokia (anti-)Internet Tablets, Linux has been done *right* here. I'd really like to try this thing for myself.

RE: Interesting
stonemirror @ 2/15/2007 11:34:53 AM # Q
David raises a valid point: it's a large world out there, and while the US cell phone market may be the only one which matters to you, Mike, it's neither the largest nor (and how this pains me!) the most advanced cell phone market around. We're a global company, and we have a global business.

I share what information I can, and I try to be responsive when possible. I'm not going to be sharing licensee or other customer plans, nor am I going to be ammouncing device release date, specific licensees or customers, or other such information--that's not my department, and it's up to the licensee whether they're willing to have that done by usat all--so please don't bother asking. As they say in Japan, "Chotto muzukashii desu...": "That might be a little difficult..."

And, as I've pointed out in the past, my occasional participation is one hundred percent contingent on the ability of other participants to act as though they're adults discussing technology and business issues. The instant things devolve into the fifth grade, and the pointless name-calling, personal attacks, sexual harassment, etc., start up, I'm outa here like a shot.


RE: Interesting
stonemirror @ 2/15/2007 11:48:05 AM # Q
...some of it is already being customized in Garnet with programs like PalmRevolt.

That's a nifty hack for Garnet, but it's not the sort of customization that carriers, for instance, are looking for...


RE: Interesting
mikecane @ 2/15/2007 2:19:58 PM # Q
stone: SHOVE your PC, man. I'm sick of you twats looking at things the wrong way.

I CLEARLY said:

>>>It can be a roaring success without us *ever* seeing it.

I made the same point you just did, you holier-than-thou eejit.

RE: Interesting
stonemirror @ 2/15/2007 5:41:07 PM # Q
...and I'm only saying that because I care--there's a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing...
(Val Kilmer as "Chris Knight" in Real Genius)

RE: Interesting
cervezas @ 2/15/2007 6:43:33 PM # Q
Chill out, Mike. I wasn't arguing with you and I wasn't trying to be "PC." Just giving a polite nod to folks in the room like twrock, freakout, ChiA, Kultivator, Surer, rsc1000, toyspring, joe77, grimpeur as well as the anonymous lurkers that don't live in the U.S.

Looks like most of the people participating in this conversation aren't from the US, which is just an idle observation, but sort of interesting nonetheless. I wonder why that is?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Interesting
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:01:46 AM # Q
Since when is twrock out of the US? I thought he lived here.

All those non-natives can come back to gloat and tell us all about ALP if they're able to actually buy a device that has it. I'll be the first in line to read their comments.

RE: Interesting
twrock @ 2/17/2007 12:30:20 AM # Q
Yeah, I hop around, but the vast majority of the time (90%?) I'm not in the US.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/

RE: Interesting
mikecane @ 2/17/2007 2:27:39 PM # Q
I'm probably confusing you with someone else. Another reason why I despise handles.

RE: Interesting
mikecane @ 2/17/2007 2:28:23 PM # Q
BTW, thanks for that Vista link. I used it on my blog. It also tells me I'd better stick with XP for some time...

Reply to this comment

Not-quite-vaporware

atrizzah @ 2/15/2007 1:57:07 AM # Q
Well, I guess we can't say anymore that there isn't actually an ALP. I can also only assume that they're going with some kind of multi-application paradigm with this new OS. It looks as though they've added some features not seen before, such as some kind of mouse feature. Other than that, visually, it looks like same old Palm OS, albeit with a much needed UI update. I wonder if they're even going to attempt to challenge Apple in the eye-candy/bell & whistle department?

Peace Out
Alan
RE: Not-quite-vaporware
KultiVator @ 2/15/2007 7:05:50 AM # Q
> Other than that, visually, it looks like same old Palm OS, albeit with a much needed UI update.

Yeah - kinda spooky seeing some of the stock Palm OS dialog boxes / pop-ups on a new device - although I realise that is just a cosmetic thing, most likely aimed at giving old Palm OS die-hards like us some feeling of continuity?

I just wonder what a device with such a large screen and large thumb-board would actually look like? And how usable the new mouse pointer functionality will be in real life.

Interesting stuff all the same - but lacks some of the wow-factor that the iPhone exudes with it's (battery draining????) transitions and other eye-candy!

KultiVator

RE: Not-quite-vaporware
mikecane @ 2/15/2007 9:48:21 AM # Q
The Zune has some similar zooming transitions of the iPhone. I've yet to read anyone squawking about the battery hit those make. The major issue of the iPhone is driving that 320x480 screen itself, then adding WiFi and Bluetooth, and cellular radios. But then certain people have been enjoying those kinds of things for years in PalmLand... Anyone complaining about, for instance, the TX battery life? I don't know.

RE: Not-quite-vaporware
freakout @ 2/15/2007 9:56:36 AM # Q
Anyone complaining about, for instance, the TX battery life?

If it was a phone, I imagine they would.

RE: Not-quite-vaporware (OT)
twrock @ 2/15/2007 7:45:19 PM # Q
OT re: KV's thumb board reference.

How many of you have tried Scott R's Thumbboard app from over at Tapland? I find it actually usable (vs. the tiny little buttons on alternate apps). It's got a "standard" qwerty layout and both visual/auditory feedback (configurable). It is still in beta, but works with most Palm apps.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: Not-quite-vaporware
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:03:27 AM # Q
>>>If it was a phone, I imagine they would.

It might be.

Reply to this comment

WTF?! Video shows a mouse pointer?!!?

mikecane @ 2/15/2007 9:53:06 AM # Q
What's that about?!

RE: WTF?! Video shows a mouse pointer?!!?
rsc1000 @ 2/15/2007 10:16:10 AM # Q
I assume that in the video, it is not showing a reference handset - it looks tethered. So i'm thinking it is just screen + controls and all of the actual processing is happening on either a desktop sim or one of these dev board. I don't know how the dev boards work - but if this is an x68 based sim we are seeing then that fully accounts for that rather Windows-ish mouse. Note that it also seems that the actual navigation and UI usages is happening via the mouse - not the controls of the device. We never see the touchscreen used either.
Not that this means anything other then that was the convenient way for them to demo; if it runs on the dev board then it can run on actual hardware.

RE: WTF?! Video shows a mouse pointer?!!?
Ryan @ 2/15/2007 11:18:29 AM # Q
I would think that is so that non-touchscreen handsets can use the Garnet VM, as a way to emulate a stylus.
RE: WTF?! Video shows a mouse pointer?!!?
sungod @ 2/16/2007 4:55:47 PM # Q
That curser isnt moving like a mouse driven curser.
The person holding the phone is cotroling it with the 4way controler.
If they are going to build in that sort of functionality for non touch screen phones it would be great to have a nipple like the old laptops.
Far more intuitive than a 4way that only givs you straight up/down and left/right.

on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero
Reply to this comment

Another ALP video

mikecane @ 2/15/2007 2:21:52 PM # Q
Of course I found it because no one else bothered to look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmaGcMg38RE

And this is on an *actual handset*.

Looks too bloody slow for me. All those blank screens would drive me mad. Now I think I understand the LifeDrive HD delay objections...

RE: Another ALP video
Surur @ 2/15/2007 3:08:01 PM # Q
That device looks like a Quanta made handset. They commonly distribute via O2 Asia.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Another ALP video
mikecane @ 2/16/2007 10:04:11 AM # Q
So how successful have all those WinMob PDAs been, surur? ROTFLMAO.

RE: Another ALP video
Surur @ 2/18/2007 5:46:06 PM # Q
Strange question - Win Mob has the majority of the PDA market, and is doing pretty well in the smartphone market.

If you are referring to Quanta making ALP smartphones also, in addition to Win Mob smartphones, then the fact is that Quanta is mostly an ODM, and they will make smartphones with anyone's OS on it, even GarnetOS ;) They are pretty successful with WM devices, making pretty high priced, high end devices.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Another ALP video
Gekko @ 2/18/2007 6:26:06 PM # Q

According to MSFT, WinMob is the "World’s Fastest-Growing Mobile Operating System".

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/feb07/02-11WM6SoftwarePR.mspx



RE: Another ALP video
mikecane @ 2/20/2007 11:48:50 AM # Q
>>>According to MSFT, WinMob is the "World’s Fastest-Growing Mobile Operating System".

Yeah, and Gartenberg called it "the world's best smartphone OS."

Where's my puke bag...

Reply to this comment

It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK

uuhh @ 2/18/2007 5:40:59 PM # Q
Linux is TOTAL FAILURE

RE: It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK
sungod @ 2/18/2007 5:53:48 PM # Q
Give it time we don't even know what hardware the phone was running on and considering its a candy bar its prob pretty low (200-300mhz?).
With the new Xscale (I cant remember their new name) processors running at 600mhz I'm sure it will fly.
And don't forget it's still only in a late beta or early RC stage. At this stage Vista was still maxing out 7900 graphics cards because the drivers still weren't down pat.


on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero

RE: It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK
uuhh @ 2/18/2007 6:09:22 PM # Q
time? he he he
it's all over
no time at all

RE: It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK
sungod @ 2/18/2007 6:16:23 PM # Q
It took 5 years for MS to release a new OS and they are still with us.
No one owns the mobile OS market yet anything could happen your mindset it just tainted from waiting for so long for a new OS.
The people outside this forum don't care the you have been boned by Palm's management over a next gen OS.

on a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero
RE: It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK
Gekko @ 2/18/2007 6:25:12 PM # Q

Make your time!

RE: It is PAINFULLY SLOW. Bring COBALT BACK
PenguinPowered @ 2/18/2007 7:48:13 PM # Q
It took 5 years for MS to release a new OS and they are still with us.

During that 5 years M$ had massive positive cash flow, was sitting on a cash reserve worth tens of billions of dollars and already owned the desktop market.

They will earn back in the first year of sales more from Vista than it cost them to build it, even at the slow sales rate that seems likely.

They're not a good choice for an analogy here.


May You Live in Interesting Times

Reply to this comment

Based off of Linux really all that bad?

cr0ss @ 2/19/2007 4:07:42 AM # Q
If this new OS is based off of Linux, is it really going to be all that bad? I mean, people have been running Linux for a few years on WinPocketPC's, and with some hacks - Palm devices too. Having Linux as grounds for a new OS isn't failure, it's called being more open.... progress, if you will!

How come people complained when Palm closed it's OS to most 3rd party developers; now a more open approach within developing their next OS (because maybe they realized they were being kind of mean towards 3rd party dev's), and some idiot posts that Palm is doomed for using Linux?

Honestly!

God Bless!

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
uuhh @ 2/19/2007 4:30:52 AM # Q
Palm is doomed with Linux

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cr0ss @ 2/19/2007 5:02:57 AM # Q
Why though? People complain that it is too closed sourced with OS 5.4. They let Windows onto it (really, that was their fault) they made a mistake by letting Windoze run in their clean, nice hardware...

But with all do respect (because everyone is entitled to their opinion), Linux is opening doors for them... Also you would think this would enable an upgrade cycle (as long as the hardware supports it), which would be a first for Palm. Mind you, some people haven't given up their m515's yet either (and would probably need a good reason to shell out $500 for the new hardware... the specs for the OS on the ACCESS website seem to be a bit hardware intensive)... Software not compatible with OS version? Just Hotsync the upgraded kernel and BAM! The program just works.

I just hope that true multitasking can be done soon (maybe similar to what Intel did with their DUO lineup - make the processor more powerful, faster while achieving less power consumption). Also I notice that displays are getting bigger (ACCESS lists that the max resolution is 480x800something - I may be a little off, but that's a big screen resolution); while these specs are nice to see: better hardware should not compromise the longevity of use.

Though, this could potentially fail if they don't expand on it - that would be their biggest loss... They would not fail with Linux, but rather - how they use it - and I don't really see that "failure" happening. At least we now know it's potential (because it's now no longer vapourware).

If Palm is such a failure, why do people break them - and buy another? Even after going after a WinMobilePPC - they break em' - and say that they're glad to have broken the thing, and go off to their local Staples (or whatever) and get a Palm instead of a replacement WinPPC?

God Bless!

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cervezas @ 2/19/2007 10:21:01 AM # Q
A few quick points:
  • Palm may be interested in Linux, but there's no reason at this time to think they will be using ALP.

  • If the Maemo platform is any indication, a full-fledged mobile Linux OS benefits from a modestly faster processor and more program memory than Palm OS requires. (The 770 Internet Tablet was slow with 250MHz and 64MB RAM, while the N800 is snappy with 330MHz and 128MB.)
  • A lot of what has traditionally made Palm OS so fast and efficient is precisely the architecture that people have been begging Palm and PalmSource to abandon: the "outdated" system where applications execute in place in RAM and data is generally in fast (but volatile) RAM rather than in a "modern" non-volatile file system. Current devices from Palm that address this by storing data and apps in slower non-volatile RAM experience lags just like Windows Mobile and Symbian systems do. Palm developed their much-maligned "FrankenGarnet" caching strategy to reduce this effect by keeping frequently used data and applications in RAM, thereby straddling the fence between the fast "antiquated" execute-in-place Palm OS architecture and a modern desktop OS architecture. The point is that Linux is a "modern" system that (like the competition) gives up some speed of execution in exchange for having a real file system.

  • You do get a lot of benefit from having applications and data load from non-volatile memory: You don't risk loss of data, it's easier to secure, you can have gigabytes of data on the device without powering gigabytes of battery-draining SDRAM chips, and it's a lot easier to port software from other platforms, among them. It's just that if you want these benefits there is a price to pay in system performance because your operating system is going to work more like a desktop PC, having to first load applications and data into RAM before using them.

Everybody wants a free lunch--it's human nature. But in the real world you must find acceptable tradeoffs that sacrifice certain things you want for other things you (hopefully) want even more. The interest in Linux from ODMs like Nokia, Motorola, Panasonic, NEC, Sharp, and (I believe) Palm is an attempt to cope with a market reality that has much different tradeoffs from the time that the original Palm OS, or even the Garnet and Cobalt OSes were developed.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
PenguinPowered @ 2/19/2007 5:51:13 PM # Q
(pulls out crystal ball)

* Palm's not interested in linux on the device
* The Maemo platform isn't an indicator
* PalmOS doesn't scale and neither Palm nor PalmSource now how to get around that. PalmOS is dead because its time has passed. ALP, if you ignore the emulator wart, is at least an attempt to match an OS to the reality of modern hardware.
* You do risk data loss with data in nvram

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cervezas @ 2/19/2007 7:00:22 PM # Q
PenguinPowered wrote:
* Palm's not interested in linux on the device

My crystal ball says your crystal ball's cracked.

Of course it also told me that Chicago would win the SuperBowl with Michael Jordan playing quarterback in the second half. That being the case, I'm always interested to hear what informs peoples' hunches (on this topic in particular). Is there something behind it, Marty, or just a SWAG?

* The Maemo platform isn't an indicator

Of what? At a minimum its an indicator of an upper bound of performance of an X Windows system on given hardware. If you're saying you don't think it tells us anything about ALP's requirements or maybe that you doubt ALP would be as fast on a 330MHz/128MB Internet Tablet as Maemo is, well, I'd say that explains why you started by pulling out your crystal ball.

* PalmOS doesn't scale and neither Palm nor PalmSource now how to get around that. PalmOS is dead because its time has passed. ALP, if you ignore the emulator wart, is at least an attempt to match an OS to the reality of modern hardware.

I don't think there really is a good way to make Palm OS "scale" if by that you mean have legacy Palm OS applications do things like run concurrently in separate processor tasks or keep all data and applications in RAM at all times as the system was designed to do. It sounds like we agree that ACCESS isn't trying to make Palm OS scale in those or any other senses you might have for that word. There are lots of great Palm OS applications that people depend on that don't really need to scale and the Garnet VM is a reasonable way to transition Palm OS users and developers over to the more powerful native Linux end of the platform. Transitions are good, and they ought to die in their time if they're doing their job.

* You do risk data loss with data in nvram

Heh, well, you don't need a crystal ball for that one.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
PenguinPowered @ 2/20/2007 12:51:51 AM # Q
[blockquote]
Is there something behind it, Marty, or just a SWAG?
[/blockquote]

I wouldn't say that it was "just" SWAG, no ;) It's an SG, but not all that WA.

[blockquote
At a minimum its an indicator of an upper bound of performance of an X Windows system on given hardware
[/blockquote]

Get your hands on a recent Zaurus. It'll change your mind about that.

Maemo's a one-off for Nokia, and I don't think they've put much resources into optimizing the performance of X on it.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
stonemirror @ 2/20/2007 8:15:20 AM # Q
Maemo's a one-off for Nokia...

Well, given the recent introduction of the Nokia 800, a two-off, at least.

And Nokia's got a dedicated team of engineers under Ari Jaaksi doing work on Maemo specifically for the Nokia tablets.

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cervezas @ 2/20/2007 9:39:54 AM # Q
Get your hands on a recent Zaurus. It'll change your mind about that.

Better still, then. My point (getting back to the OP's question) was that Maemo is proof that Linux + X Windows does not seem to require gobs more memory or processor cycles than ODMs are already building into their devices.

Maemo's a one-off for Nokia....

Not sure we really know that. Not even sure Nokia does yet. As Lefty points out, they watched what happened with the 770 and decided they needed to throw even more resources toward it. If I were Nokia I would be pretty disappointed that S60--in particular S60 on the N-series "computers" (they don't like to call them phones anymore)--hasn't inspired more interest from developers. While I don't see Nokia mulling any kind of abandonment of Symbian, I do think that Maemo was an experiment to see if an open source OS could foster an application ecosystem that excites a bunch of consumers about something more than voice, SMS and ringtones. At the very least we can say they weren't satisfied that the 770 was an adequate test of the new market for non-phone mobile computers. One more Maemo-powered device from them and I think we can safely say that Mr. Jaaksi has succeeded in getting Nokia's attention and that Maemo will be going places.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cervezas @ 2/20/2007 10:17:51 AM # Q
Ari Jaaksi suggests that Nokia has a WiMax-enabled Maemo Tablet planned, in addition to lots of software enhancements that hardly seem like revenue generators unless there's new hardware to ship them in:

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-level-roadmap.html

A three-off? A charitable outreach program for Linux geeks?

And by the way, who says Nokia is the only company that can release products that leverage the Maemo platform, which after all is open source? This one looks awfully suspicious, don't you think? http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/2007/02/chinese_firm_to.html

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
mikecane @ 2/20/2007 11:51:42 AM # Q
>>>while the N800 is snappy with 330MHz and 128MB

>cackles of insanity<

Owners of the N800 are saying of *it* that the new horsepower now represents the *bare minimum* for that crap.

They'll be saying that about Tablet OS2008 on the (god help us all) future(?) N900 too.

The ALP stuff we've been seeing. Is that final, optimized code? Or is there more licensees can squeeze out of it when they attach it to their hardware?

Linux is worse than dealing with DOS. Upon hearing or reading the word "dependencies," I want to slit my throat... I hope ALP shields the users from all that.

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
mikecane @ 2/20/2007 11:55:04 AM # Q
>>>Ari Jaaksi

He also said, and I quote, the N700 was "good."

Credibility minus zero.

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
PenguinPowered @ 2/20/2007 12:23:28 PM # Q
My point (getting back to the OP's question) was that Maemo is proof that Linux + X Windows does not seem to require gobs more memory or processor cycles than ODMs are already building into their devices.

Ooops. I read your point backwards. I thought you were making the case that it showed Linux was a hog on embedded devices.


Maemo's a one-off for Nokia....

Not sure we really know that.

Sorry, poor choice of words. I was referring to the fact that Maemo itself is a funky deal where Nokia is sort of in charge but there's a whole seperate open source project and it relies on a lot of technology, most notably the X windows implementation that Nokia doesn't seem to have done anything to tune.

Lefty and you are both right about it as a potential Nokia product line. (Although personally, I doubt they'll ever put a phone in it, and I doubt there's much market for it without one.)

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Based off of Linux really all that bad?
cervezas @ 2/20/2007 12:31:17 PM # Q
I am an owner of an N800, so I don't need to interpret other peoples' judgments of this to assess it for myself.

Your perspective about loading software on the Nokia tablets is a good one, though. The N800 is great for folks who either like just using the applications it ships with or who don't mind doing more leg-work than your average consumer user to make sure they've got all the supporting libraries they need to run an application they install. It's great to have shared libraries, but the Application Manager and application packaging needs to be designed so that any time you download an app that has a special library dependency it grabs that dependency, too. There are a lot of little things like this that need to be improved before the Nokia Tablets will be able to drive a substantial third party application ecosystem. It remains to be seen how much Nokia even cares about that (though they should if they know what's good for them!)

Like you, I'm hoping (and guessing) that ALP will be more user friendly in this and other regards.

Also, I agree with Marty: Maemo is not likely to be running on a phone any time soon.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

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wheres 320x320?

scstraus2 @ 2/21/2007 7:48:40 PM # Q
Has anyone found out? What's my new treo gonna use?

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FYI re ACCESS Linux Platform Target Devices et al

SeldomVisitor @ 3/30/2007 6:31:20 AM # Q
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