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Comments on: Palm Q3FY07 Conference Call Highlights

Palm held its quarterly conference call today with analysts and investors. The call covered Palm's financial and business performance over the quarter, new initiatives being developed at Palm and talk (or lack thereof) about recent takeover rumors.

Takeover Rumors
Several questions were raised about the recent takeover rumors. While the standard we won't comment on rumors and speculation response was given, at one point Ed Colligan became slightly perturbed by a question regarding a potential sale and stated "We are focused on operating our stand alone company and driving our plan and are not going to comment on rumors out there." Palm CFO Andrew Brown also remarked, "Management is 100% focused on running this business as a independent market supplier of mobile computing products -- end of story."

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PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why

sremick @ 3/22/2007 10:34:57 PM # Q
"Handheld revenues came in at $56 million, a 44% year over year decline. Handheld sell tough was 456,000 units with 277,000 sold. Even with the reduction in PDA sales, Colligan remarked that the handheld business is continues to be profitable. He also remarked it continues to bring in customers that eventually upgrade to Treos, but expects the declines to continue."

Well gee... maybe PDA sales wouldn't be declining if Palm would put out PDAs that are worth buying. Their current line-up is full of mediocre PDAs that are full of compromises and issues. Their last really good PDA was 4 years ago, and look at that... PDA sales were INCREASING. Go figure. And those PDAs had better specs than today's Palm PDAs.

People keep telling Palm what features they want in a PDA, but instead they keep cranking out and pushing smartphones. Of course they sell more smartphones, it's the only thing Palm markets and puts an effort into R&D. Too bad they suck as PDAs and can't hold a candle to the capabilities of Palm PDAs from several years ago.

http://vtbsd.net/winhelp/

RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
twrock @ 3/23/2007 2:00:02 AM # Q
"Even with the reduction in PDA sales, Colligan remarked that the handheld business is continues to be profitable. He also remarked it continues to bring in customers that eventually upgrade to Treos, but expects the declines to continue."

I wish Colligan would just shut up about PDA's. Even talking about them in any context is a complete waste of time. PDA's are dead, I tell you, DEAD! I don't care how many million dollars the company made off of them in the last quarter; there is no point to even considering EVER putting out another one. I don't care that Palm can both make money off of this product as well as use it as an entry point for people who later "upgrade" to Treos. It is pointless to do any further R&D on this completely fruitless and meaningless product line. People who keep bring up the topic of PDA's and thinking there is any hope for a new one are complete idiots who don't know what's good for them. They should stop believing there is any value in their personal experience and preferences. They should be slapped upside the head until they have some sense knocked into them. They should be forced to use smartphones until they finally admit that those of us who have superior intelligence are correct that smartphones are the right device for all people at all times in all places. There is no other useful device. Period!


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RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
mikecane @ 3/23/2007 4:27:07 PM # Q
*sneaking up behind twrock with a baseball bat*

You just need some instant tranquilization, son...

RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
twrock @ 3/23/2007 9:11:18 PM # Q
(twrock smiles broadly as Mike Cane swings wildly at a fast ball, low and away.) ;)


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RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
mikecane @ 3/24/2007 2:19:31 PM # Q
Ah, dammit. My aim always did suck. And I'm too lazy to practice too!

RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
ChiA @ 3/25/2007 8:03:47 PM # Q
UMPCs and Tablet PCs will be the ones to hammer the final nail in the PDA's coffin.
Palm is being smart in focusing on smartphones.

All that's required is a little further refinement for UMPCs to have the battery life of a PDA. Furthermore media players and smartphones continue to encroach on what used to be PDA territory.

The PDA is being squeezed out of existence from all sides.

RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
twrock @ 3/25/2007 9:12:17 PM # Q
All that's required is a little further refinement for UMPCs to have the battery life of a PDA.

Well, that, and the fact that the UMPC's I've seen would require a pants pocket the size of New Jersey to carry with you regularly. Sorry, no interest there; they still have a long way to go, IMO. I think UMPC's are not a huge factor in PDA decline like smartphones are.

The PDA is being squeezed out of existence from all sides.

Yep, seems to be the case. Give me a TX with a cell radio, call it a "smartphone", and I'll probably switch too. Or you can call it a PDA with voice, and I'd still probably buy it. :) ("A rose by any other name....") I just don't want the smartphones Palm offers right now, and (unfortunately?) I'm pretty "sold" on the Palm OS. The software "suite" I've collected for Palm is really locking me in at the moment. (Although the recent stuff coming out with Linux embedded might eventually offer what I want, it doesn't yet; and don't even bother suggesting WinMob.)


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RE: PDAs declining? Gee, wonder why
mikecane @ 3/26/2007 9:10:05 AM # Q
* beep beep beep! *

THAT is what a PDA is for, dammit.

I need my beepbeepbeep!

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:( I feel sad. Sigh

VampireLestat @ 3/23/2007 2:33:58 AM # Q
I wish Palm would continue to innovate in the Palm OS PDA area.

I am hoping Hawkins is preparing something new that will appeal to us handheld fans.

Remember, Treos are good but they are not the same as a handheld in that they do not have large screens and are not focused on mobile computing excellence. They are cells first, computers 2nd.

There IS a dedicated power mobile computing market out there, a huge one. But Palm has to make a device for us to buy one!

btw, glad Palm is not being sold. Good move.

Also, Colligan saying that he expects continued handheld declines is a destructive self fulfilling prophecy. He should SHUT UP on such matters. JUST MAKE/SELL THE DEVICE AND WE THE CONSUMERS WILL DECIDE IF HANDHELDS ARE TO DIE OR THRIVE.



RE: :( I feel sad. Sigh
VampireLestat @ 3/23/2007 2:39:51 AM # Q
I want my Palm back. :( Both my TX and the traditional Palm company.

RE: :( I feel sad. Sigh
PacManFoo @ 3/23/2007 8:19:09 AM # Q
Yes it was a shocker that handheld sales are falling when Palm hasn't put anything new out in a year and a half, and have alienated both their traditional user base and the developers that have saved their bacon up till this point. I was just blown away by the news. Try that method with the Treo and see how long it sells well.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100
RE: :( I feel sad. Sigh
twizza @ 3/27/2007 1:59:00 PM # Q
"I wish Palm would continue to innovate in the Palm OS PDA area."

What does innovation look like? While I can agree that Palm can and should do more. What you are looking for is something that is more than just more power and hardware. If teh software cannot take advantage of it and change your mobile computing perspective, then why sell it. You might as well sell a commodiczed device with nothing but a different case, like many of the WM licensees do.

mobileministrymagazine.com
antoinerjwright.com

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International sales down $40 million sequentially

SeldomVisitor @ 3/23/2007 6:39:12 AM # Q
== "...Palm's international expansion continues to grow..."

It is not clear the above is true, given the Subject of this thread.

Note that the reported quarter had sell-through from Christmas but probably not sell-in (unlike what some Me-Too Media folks "reported").

RE: International sales down $40 million sequentially
freakout @ 3/24/2007 8:32:05 PM # Q
The international portion of our business is making significant gains, with Treo smartphone revenue more than double that of a year ago.

SV, is it profit or revenue you're talking about? the treo 680 is probably part of the reason profits have fallen, given its significantly lower price. meaning that they might still be growing in terms of devices sold rather than money made.

RE: International sales down $40 million sequentially
freakout @ 3/24/2007 8:55:35 PM # Q
Nevermind, the answer's here:

Tavis McCourt - Morgan Keegan & Co. Inc.

First, I want to make sure I was doing the math right. It looks like on a sequential basis U.S. revenues were up quite significantly, international was down a little bit sequentially, obviously up year over year. Remind me; was there a big sell in last quarter in the international business that did not reoccur this year?

Andrew J. Brown

Well, there were a couple of factors. One is last quarter the U.S. was unusually low. We had originally anticipated that we would be shipping the Treo 750 in the U.S. markets and that did not occur, and that product got introduced in January to Cingular, as you are aware.

Then secondarily, yes, we did have -- we had two products that were introduced into Europe last quarter; the Treo 680 and the Treo 750v to Vodafone, so there was some -- it was a combination of that.

I think more importantly however is the fact that when we look at our year-over-year results, the 23% increase overall year over year internationally I think is certainly a significant positive sign, and as Ed had mentioned earlier, the fact that we doubled smartphone revenues year over year means we are really making what I believe is some really good traction internationally.



Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: International sales down $40 million sequentially
SeldomVisitor @ 3/25/2007 8:52:53 AM # Q
The decline of $40 million sequentially suggests that there are no large buyers internationally - that's more than a 20% hit, BTW. The CFO, bless his too-honest heart, mentioned in a previous analyst conference that PALM was TRYING to get Orange and DT, etc in Europe - that is, trying to get someone other than Vodafone who MAY be a former customer at this point.

I think PALM needs that ultra-thin castrated TREO to get the European market.

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Full Transcript Here

ballistic @ 3/23/2007 7:23:18 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

What happened to...

Tuckermaclain @ 3/23/2007 1:13:40 PM # Q
The self-proclaimed pundit who had a thing for old Samsung Palm-Phones and the TX55? Has he/she been banned or just thrown in the towel? Been quieter around these forums lately.

RE: What happened to...
mikecane @ 3/23/2007 4:28:25 PM # Q
Ah, I hope his neck found a nice rope.

RE: What happened to...
sungod @ 3/23/2007 5:38:39 PM # Q
He's on a self enforced exile because so many people where saying PIC would be better off without him.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: What happened to...
Scott R @ 3/23/2007 6:06:20 PM # Q
I believe his departure coincided nicely with Mike Cane's return.

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -
RE: What happened to...
freakout @ 3/23/2007 6:09:48 PM # Q
Back in January, TVoR said:

"TvoR will go on sabbatical for a while. The Palm Aplogists can come out from their bunkers (and closets) now. Palminfocenter is now a kinder, gentler, more bullsh!ttier place to be.

Kumbaya my Lord... Kumbayah..."

I know I'm in the minority, but I miss him/her/it. (ducks angry glare from Beersie) ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: What happened to...
twrock @ 3/23/2007 8:34:14 PM # Q
The Palm Aplogists can come out from their bunkers (and closets) now.

Since just about anyone who ever disagreed with The Standard TVOR Line (TSTL®) got labeled an apologist, most of "us" were already posting. I honestly don't think there has been a huge increase in apologists posting, but certainly there has been a decrease in the verbal barrage they would receive for disagreeing with TSTL®.

Palminfocenter is now a kinder, gentler [place]

Seems this part of the statement has been true.

Palminfocenter is now a ... more bullsh!ttier place to be.

I believe there has been significantly less references to bovine excrement and the intent to violate the body parts that release it since he left. So I think he was wrong about this one too.

Oh, you say that's not what he meant? ;)

Whether the site is more or less enjoyable to read or participate in since he "left" (yeah, right) is very much a matter of personal opinion. I guess if I was to pick between the site as it was with him regularly going over the "line" ("Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, Inane or Offensive comments may be edited/deleted.") and the site without him, I'd land on the side without him. It would have been nice if he was capable of participation while exercising some "self-regulation" in that area, but maybe that would be asking of him for more maturity than he's capable. Too bad.

Now if his "style" of posting was the very thing that brought you to this site, then I certainly can see how you are feeling disappointed. We have not yet seen anyone else who is capable of filling those shoes (for better or worse, depending on your perspective).

YMMV


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RE: What happened to...
mikecane @ 3/26/2007 9:11:34 AM # Q
>>>I believe his departure coincided nicely with Mike Cane's return.

Coincidental.

And I am disgusted by the "Is Clark Kent Superman?" insinuation.

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Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.

VampireLestat @ 3/26/2007 2:13:09 AM # Q
Who knows, if Palm has a brain and releases a new handheld, the community might partially rejoin.

I will see the day when Palm comes back begging for handheld sales.
Mark my words! And if they don't, then I send a big sincere F YOU to Colligan and his minions.

And even IF some day I decide to buy a cellphone, I will NEVER buy a Treo; just out of sheer spite.

I would be curious to get some "web hits" numbers from pic and 1src.com. I am convinced the visits are dropping. I can tell just by the falling apart of the forums, mirc, usenet, etc. Treo sales are by cell phone lovers. Notice how Colligan's slow destruction of his core customer base is resulting in less talk and projects surrounding Palm projects. He is making a huge mistake and doesn't realize it. Treo Treo Treo that is all he has on his little obsesses mind. And you know he is never sure of anything because he keeps changing his vision and statements from quarter to quarter.

But the best part is this man actually laughs when he hears about handhelds. Idiot. You stupid IDIOT!

PDA sales dropping? Why not sell a good PDA? Where is our oled screen? Where is our camera? Palm PDAs are devoid of all the latest exciting technology. Everything R&D is going into Treos.
There is no reason why Palm cannot offer both a healthy line of PDAs (mobile computing emphasis) and a Treo line.

THEY ARE IDIOTS! There is no other explanation. All Palm needs to do to fix its horrible PR image is to announce 1 or 2 new handhelds. Instant cure. But noooooooooooooooo...

Do these morons realize how many years it took to build the PDA core business? the software community of developers? So they?! Colligan is bragging that he is transforming into a phone company and offers WM to boot. Despite his success with Treos, I would fire his ass and get someone else to replace him and put in place 2 objectives: Continue the expansion of Treos and b) try and save the Palm OS PDA consumer base and the Palm OS developer base; ASAP before its too late.

When Palm Inc. hired Colligan, we all knew he was a smartphone wh**e. He think before that he was running his Handera or something old cell phones. He walked into Palm and did a good thing by putting the company back into the black, but at the same time has undermind a core part of the business. He has ever changing rationals and he thinks that a 1 trick pony Treo core design is a recipe for perpetual success. HE IS WRONG. The competition is ferocious in cell phones and Palm is missing A PLATINUM opportunity, and UNIMAGINABLE OPPORTUNITY to walk in and secure the PDA market. Dell and HP are off track and Palm thinks those companies must know something about the market. They are all wrong!

Anyways do whatever the hell you Fn want Colligan/Palm, I will be back whenever you either a) fire Colligan or b) start selling serious fully features true mobile computing PDA/multimedia centric TX sized handhelds, that just so happen to have a cell phone radio, among others.



RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
VampireLestat @ 3/26/2007 2:35:11 AM # Q
wow, sorry for the gazillion typos. Too bad there is no Edit function on pic.

RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
VampireLestat @ 3/26/2007 3:05:00 AM # Q
By the way, who does Ed Colligan have to answer to? Who is/are his boss(es)?

RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/26/2007 6:09:32 AM # Q
> ...Who is/are his boss(es)?

Some guy named Eric with an unrememberable-spelling last name like Benhemou.

RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
VampireLestat @ 3/26/2007 7:28:10 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor,

Hey thanks man.
I will send a copy of my letter to Palm's top boss Eric Benhamou also.


RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
mikecane @ 3/26/2007 9:12:56 AM # Q
>>>Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.

Well then you're an effin eejit.

That make you feel better?

RE: Well I for one [prefer no edit function]
twrock @ 3/26/2007 10:09:40 AM # Q
Too bad there is no Edit function on pic.

You know, for a while I thought it'd be nice to have an edit function too. Now I prefer it that no one can change anything after it's been posted. I find that at least I think twice before I click on the "Post Comment" button. There's no going back to weasel out of something stupid or to rewrite "history".

And I wouldn't worry too much about typos; everybody makes some. But if we are talking about content....


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RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
sungod @ 3/28/2007 4:09:49 AM # Q
In ref to typos.
Just type it in Word/OpenOffice (try it its free and rocks) and then the good old cut & paste.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: Well I for one miss The Voice of Reason.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/28/2007 7:07:06 AM # Q
When I make a post here and elsewhere, Firefox does the spell-checking for me (Tools/Options/Advanced/General tab).

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I had enough.

VampireLestat @ 3/26/2007 6:30:15 AM # Q
I just mailed this letter to Ed Colligan at:
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
====================================
Dear Mr. Colligan/Palm Inc.,
For more than 10 years Palm OS has been valued by millions of people. I am one of those consumers (and occasional leisure developer) who has purchased numerous Palm handhelds and has become accustomed to relying on Palm OS to remain organized and entertained on a daily basis.
I am writing this letter because I am increasingly dissatisfied with Palm's apparent objective of gradually abandoning handheld development.
Treos are great devices for consumers who wish to own a phone-centric device capable of average mobile computing. However, it is the opinion of many long time Palm supporters that thinner TX style devices with 320x480 screens are a bare minimum in screen real-estate in order to assure a satisfactory mobile computing experience. Watching movies, playing games, reviewing PIM info, reading eBooks, viewing spreadsheets, etc are all significantly more enjoyable on a 320x480 screen. Adopting and embracing mobile computing relies heavily on the visual experience. A Treo with a 320x320 screen simply is inadequate in order to meet one of Palm's vaunted objectives i.e., promoting and selling the best mobile computing devices.
Treos have a major role to play in Palm's long term success. However, there is also a big market of handheld consumers. HP, Dell and other traditional Palm competitors are apparently pulling out of the handheld market. Rather than following in the footsteps of those companies, Palm should be using that error by the competition as an opportunity to move in and strengthen its presence in the handheld market segment. If HTC continues to make pda-phones then there has to be money in it. And since HTC products are overpriced and hard to buy in the USA and Canada, Palm still has free reign in North America.
In the last 2 years, handheld sales have crashed in such a way that it is nonsensical to conclude that a 10 year old market segment has given up on handhelds and simply prefers Treos. A large number of consumers would purchase 320x480 handhelds IF those devices contained value added technology like that found in the Treo e.g., a camera, cellular, mic, removable battery, etc. Here are a few basic reasons for the drop in handheld sales:
- The lack of new handhelds by Palm.
- The lack of adequate contemporary technology inside Palm handhelds.
- Many Palm fans are holding on to their old devices while waiting for the latter 2 points to be answered.
- Many Palm fans are experiencing with WM devices, seeking better hardware/software, waiting for Palm to upgrade its line.
- Some users are migrating to Treos.
For many Palm fans, it is discouraging and destructive to hear the CEO repeatedly state that Palm expects and is managing a 40 to 50% handheld sales decline quarter to quarter. A CEO should instead be explaining that he will continue to invest in Treos but is also working hard with designers and engineers to reinvigorate handheld sales.
Palm has a following of dedicated Palm OS fans somewhat like Apple enjoys. This type of loyal consumer base is hard to get and once a company has it, it should do everything in its power to protect it. Planning for the demise of handhelds is a self fulfilling prophecy that disgruntles and alienates a significant portion of the user base. The success of the Treo should not become an excuse to abandon a valuable part of the traditional base; which can be leveraged for the company's overall prosperity if only the right products were presented to it.
Palm has experienced some dramatic and often very dangerous changes in the last decade e.g., Palm Inc. split, being in the red, Sony abandoning Palm OS, loss of Palm OS rights to Access Co., etc. However, Palm is currently experiencing a period of prosperity due to the cell phone frenzy worldwide. However, dear Mr. Colligan, you need to fully understand that despite the Treo success, the Palm OS base is faltering and needs your action in order to stop the trend. Evidence of the falter is found in the reduction of Palm OS dedicated websites (which many are increasingly blending in WM content), IRC, blog, Usenet and various forum communities are drying up fast, and equally troubling, the number of OS hackers, developers and leisure programmers is decreasing fast as well. You need to know that vast numbers of Treo fans are phone-centric consumers and they are not translating into an active Palm OS mobile computing savvy community. Palm needs to design/sell new handhelds to turn this tide.
Although sometimes controversial, Palm has the respect of millions of consumers because it has a reputation of being an exciting underdog company that cyclically surprises the industry by presenting fun, exciting, innovative devices. But perhaps equally important, Palm is also known for its unique community of Palm OS loyal fans who promote the products word of mouth; exponentially. Without the latter, Palm, in a sense, becomes commoditized and loses its appeal. Please protect this community by offering powerful, fully featured new handhelds.
When Palm decided, to the dismay of many hardcore Palm OS fans to start selling WM devices, consumers were told that Palm was dedicated to offering greater choice. Isn't maintaining the handheld line also offering Palm consumers greater choice?
For Palm to get a clear picture if handhelds deserve a future in its business model, it is imperative that Palm present new handhelds yearly and that those handhelds have superior technology than that found in the phone-centric Treo; technology that makes handhelds superior mobile computing focused devices.
Here are a few examples of what many fans are asking for:
- 320x480
- OLED (wide angles, high refresh rate, rich colors, thin, low power)
- Solid unified thin design (like the TX)
- High quality camera with flash.
- 624 MHz+ (with switch to lower to 312, 416 MHz for battery savings)
- 128 MB ROM NVFS
- 4GB+ SD slot
- Mic
- LED
- Vibrating alarm
- Front twin speakers
- Unit capable of standing up on desk for movie viewing
- Mini USB connector
- Better sound chip. Get rid of white noise. Tremble/bass controls.
- OS software to add audio effects (concert hall, etc)
- Cellular, Wi-Fi, EVDO, BT, and IR radios.
- VoIP. Video-phone.
- Gaming friendly large buttons (like on the Life Drive)
- If including HD, system operations should work off of RAM/ROM (avoid HD lag).
- Removable battery.
- Optional snap on, slide keyboard.
- Graffiti 3 with single stroke 'T's, 'K's, etc.
- Single handed heavy/sturdy cradle with no light built in.
Help us help you.
A fan who is still hanging in there, hoping for a renewed focus on handhelds.



RE: I had enough.
Tuckermaclain @ 3/26/2007 8:53:17 AM # Q
It must be how the Newton die-hards felt decades ago. I used to read this forum 10-20 times a day around when OS4 was introduced. Now I stay away as long as 10 days between visits. As soon as I know for sure Palm will never introduce another PDA I'm going to buy a stock of TXs. That will be the end, IMO, unless they make a phone with a reasonably sized 320x480 screen. This sould be about the same time they sell snow-cones in H*ll.

RE: I had enough.
mikecane @ 3/26/2007 9:14:22 AM # Q
Oh shut up already!!

I've screamed at that pack of ejjits for years and years and they're still autists.

Stock up on ebay or just vanish.

RE: I had enough.
cervezas @ 3/26/2007 11:25:59 AM # Q
That will be the end, IMO, unless they make a phone with a reasonably sized 320x480 screen.

Nokia's new E90 is about to turn 320x480 into yesterday's ho hum screen resolution. The new screen to beat for a PDA phone is 352x800.

http://europe.nokia.com/A4346044

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I had enough.
Tuckermaclain @ 3/26/2007 4:16:00 PM # Q
If that ran on Palm OS I would be drooling. It's impressive. I will soldier on for now with my TX and my no-data-plan Razr.

RE: I had enough.
Gekko @ 3/26/2007 6:26:31 PM # Q

Vampire - if you include your photo with your letter, you will get a quicker reply.

http://www.negativepositive.org/canadasfinest.jpg



RE: I had enough.
BaalthazaaR @ 3/26/2007 10:32:16 PM # Q
Mike Cane, Please go and hang out with TVOR. As dumb as you think PDAs are today, that is how much I'd rather have a PDA. I agree with the vampire completely.
RE: I had enough.
freakout @ 3/27/2007 5:26:10 AM # Q
Nice letter, Vamp. Power to the people! and all that stuff.

Might I suggest, though, that you wait until May to see what Hawkins has up his sleeve before jumping ship. Who knows, it might be some new class of mobile computing device that will make you go "PD-what?" ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I had enough.
mikecane @ 3/27/2007 12:42:33 PM # Q
>>>As dumb as you think PDAs are today,

You are obviously retarded and an idiot too. If you've read ANY of my postings, you'd know you have your head firmly placed up your backside.

No go away, moron.

RE: I had enough.
Tuckermaclain @ 3/27/2007 5:17:27 PM # Q
Mike Cain used to be such a polite, professional poster. I liked reading his annual predictions. Mike, what happened? I sure have been out of touch lately.

RE: I had enough.
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2007 11:13:29 PM # Q
Uh...you mailed a letter to a corporate CEO, expecting a response or even acquiescence? Do me a favor... remove the stylus from your T|X and draw these letters on your foreheard, in Graffiti characters: G-U-L-L-I-B-L-E. The only response you'll get is from the Canadian Postal service should it return the letter in the event you accidentally misspelled Ed's mailing address. Even in that case the outcome will have more meaning.

Nokia's new E90 is about to turn 320x480 into yesterday's ho hum screen resolution.

Not likely. First, this phone will probably never reach these shores. It has FCC approval but unless something has changed I haven't seen any firm news regarding its availability here in the US. Speculation says T-Mobile might pick it up, but that remains questionable. In which case this glob stopping eye popping screen res will have little impact on North Americans. Even if this phones does makes way into T-Mobile, it will still have little impact because T-Mobile is a small player, dwarfed by Cingular, Verizon, and Sprint.

Forgive me for turning this discussion into an iPhove vs. everyone else debate but I have to say... no one will care about the N90. They'll be too distracted by iPhone and the deafening roar of Apple's hype machine in full operation to hear poor little N90 ringing in the background for attention. N90 is great example of a device that is obsolete before its time. Why do I say that? Because it doesn't change the landscape. It offers nothing new. Just more pixels slapped over the same OS, running the same mediocre software, performing the same mundane tasks. Does adding more pixels an innovation? Nope.

Like it or not, the signature wireless device of 2007 is going to be iPhone. Everything else is a mehPhone by comparison in the public eye. While Apple may not have reinvented the phone, as claimed, it has raised the bar (excuse the pun) by a quantum leap with the introduction of a totally fluid interface and touchscreen interaction. That last feature is nothing new, touchscreens have been around for ages. But when you combine jaw dropping software with a gesture based input, done in an elegant and seamless way...that's called innovation!

Lastly, what good is a killer higher resolution screen without killer software to exploit it? Have you missed all the iPhone demos? iPhone = killer software experience. N90 = Symbian = Bleh! And I say that as an S60 user myself. Symbian ranks poorly both in terms of usability and innovation, particularly the latter. It's a decent software platform for common feature phones but as a dynamic smartphone platform it lacks substance. It offers very little over Windows Mobile, and frankly I'd prefer Microsoft's OS to Symbian. The only thing S60 has going for it right now is that it holds the title for having best mobile browser (ironically derived from Safari) and that sole strong point is about to evaporate the moment the first iPhone shipments arrive at distribution centers.

And speaking of the display, N90 has no touchscreen. What good is that? Sorry, but N90 is going to herald a new age of in mobile screen res, rather iPhone will herald a new age in touchscreen phones. And we're seeing the beginnings of that process at work now. While N90 users are scrolling LEFT - RIGHT -LEFT - UP - DOWN to navigate the S60 UI, iPhone users will quickly select with one tap what it takes a Nokia user to do in 5-6 clicks. That's innovation.


three years from now mobile user will be touching the screens, navigating a fluid UI with gestures, looking back at non-touchscreen devices like your N90 wondering how they ever managed with such archaic hardware.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: I had enough.
freakout @ 3/28/2007 12:28:20 AM # Q
^^ Y'know, Foo, I read all over that post looking for somewhere to lay down my anti-iPhone wet blanket... and I couldn't find a spot! I feel empty. And sad.
Oh, there it is!
freakout @ 3/28/2007 4:50:32 AM # Q
And we're seeing the beginnings of that process at work now. While N90 users are scrolling LEFT - RIGHT -LEFT - UP - DOWN to navigate the S60 UI, iPhone users will quickly select with one tap what it takes a Nokia user to do in 5-6 clicks. That's innovation.

And while iPhone users are pecking out SMS and email with RSI-afflicted thumbs on their touchscreens, N90 (and other archaic button-phone) users will laugh at them. And then possibly burn them at the stake. :P

As for the "totally fluid interface" - it's well-suited to a media player and internet tablet, but not to a phone. A phone has to be designed with one-handed use in mind first and foremost. Case in point, of course, is the Treo's superb one-handed nav, which is consistent across all the built-in apps, including the web browser, and is very easy to pick up. Who really wants to have to constantly twirl their dirty fingers on their screen to do things on their phone?

The iPhone will be a great media player, and a terrific mobile web browser. But from what we've seen so far, I don't think it cuts it as a communicator (meaning voice/SMS/email). Let's not forget that's the point of having a phone in the first place.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I had enough.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/28/2007 7:04:46 AM # Q
Fingers!?

You guys want to use FINGERS!?

Sheesh.

I expect to tell my iPhone (*) what I want and it'll do it.

Neaderthals!

Double sheesh.


======

(*) No, I'm not REALLY gonna get an iPhone - that's called "literary license"...

RE: I had enough.
cervezas @ 3/28/2007 11:16:21 AM # Q
Foo, I wasn't talking about the N90.

I was talking about the E90, which I do think will open up a new front in the smartphone wars, albeit a nichy one for the elite businessperson. You might want to take another look: http://europe.nokia.com/A4344289

The iPhone is not a competitor to the E90. The former is an iconic, stylish mass-market feature phone with a UI that is eyepopping but totally impractical for a business user. (You'll know what I mean the first time you have to "flick" your way through several hundred contacts to get to the one you want. Don't even get me started on text entry or one-handed navigation.) The E90 is for people who actually need to get some work done and don't mind paying for the privilege of doing it on device with jewel-like design. It's the latest in Nokia's venerable and popular Communicator line and the first one that is cutting edge in every respect including industrial design (which has been sorely lacking in the past). After using the N800 for a few months I can assure you that that 800px-wide screen makes a huge difference in what you can do and want to do with a mobile device. The iPhone screen will look like your dog's dinner next to the E90. The E90 also costs a small fortune, even compared to the iPhone. It's intended to be for an elite group, not for the iPod-toting masses that Apple is targeting (at a dubious price point). The likelihood that someone looking at an E90 would consider an iPhone as a substitute is about the same as someone considering buying a Lexus to take on safaris in Tanzania.

By the way, you don't need to go after the smallish, increasingly backward US market to make a splash in the smartphone market. Nokia knows that Europe and Japan are the markets to lead in and that's where they are focused. They seem to be content to let Motorola, RIM and Palm fight over the scraps here.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I had enough.
cervezas @ 3/28/2007 12:34:10 PM # Q
By the way, Foo, I agree with you that touchscreens are going to be big, now. Maybe even huge, like Britney Spears.

There's also a pretty good market for music that isn't performed by Britney Spears.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I had enough.
mikecane @ 3/28/2007 1:07:17 PM # Q
>>>Maybe even huge, like Britney Spears.

ROTFLMAO!!

RE: I had enough.
mikecane @ 3/28/2007 1:07:40 PM # Q
All that could be predicted about Palm has been predicted. At least by me.

Foo can bang his head against the wall each year if he wants.

Ooh, Foo, I'm so enjoying that WinMob *PDA* from Palm. (pinch, pinch)

RE: I had enough.
SeldomVisitor @ 3/28/2007 1:19:40 PM # Q
> ...You'll know what I mean the first time you have to "flick" your
> way through several hundred contacts to get to the one you want...

Why do you think you have to "flick your way through several hundred contacts" unless you're really into the single finger ziiiiip style of iphone use?

You DO know that you can use an alphabetical sidebar to narrow the search rapidly, right?

Given that, is anything else faster?

Significantly?

My iPhone rant
cervezas @ 3/28/2007 2:12:58 PM # Q
Even on the Treo (which is not as good as it could be) you just type JH[phone key] and Jeff Hawkins' phone is ringing. On the iPhone I have to find and tap the "GHI" button on the screen, scroll past all the G names, looking at the screen as I go, and then tap Hawkins' smiling face when it comes into view. Every time I need to tap or scroll I have to take both hands off the wheel of my careening automobile and steer away from the other cars and bridge abutments with my knees or the back of my wrist. While looking at the phone.

The iPhone also doesn't seem to be aware that people use phone numbers to send SMS. After I find Mr Hawkins' number in my contacts there's no option to send an SMS to that number. "You're in the Phone application, stupid. You need to go root around a little more and find this same contact in the Messaging application." Alas, no way for 3rd party developers to fix problems like these. Jobs knows best and you just need to learn to think like he does.

The iPhone really should have been called the iPodPhone. That would have better identified their target audience and made it clearer that it was first and foremost a device for entertainment. I doubt many people who need a real smartphone for business purposes will be fooled. You have to use Yahoo IMAP to get push email? You can't sync data over the air? And when you sync via the cradle it syncs your calendar with... iTunes? Which you then must sync separately with Outlook?! Imagine what people would say about Palm if they tried to pull lame stunts like this!

There's bling, sure, and bling sells as we saw with the RAZR. And Foo Fighter is right that there's hype galore. But I don't see very little real innovation beyond the purely cosmetic. Visual voicemail is the only one that looked remotely useful. Certainly not enough to make up for the backward steps.

The best thing about the iPhone will be the competition.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I had enough.
cervezas @ 3/28/2007 4:10:16 PM # Q
I may be wrong about the SMS thing (see comment here: http://www.uxelements.com/2007/01/iphone-contacts-list.html). The OP says this, which I think is pretty sensible:

The real issue is that apple have consistently in the last couple of years been choosing to put aside some of the basic UI principles in favor of UX tricks and gimmicks. Now, don’t get me wrong, I love gimmicks as much as the next guy but I think that in a phone environment when the device is so interaction centric (as appose to a music player) this choice will be problematic in prolonged uses. People used to Nokia series 40 will start missing their good old phone that allowed them to, lets say… , use speed dials and create an sms to a missed call in 2 clicks...

Whatever else you might say about Palm, and yes, even Nokia, there has been some level of attention to details that make frequently performed operations easier and faster. Apple seemed to want things to *appear* easy from the standpoint of someone watching someone else use the iPhone on a giant screen at the Moscone Center, but from what I can tell they haven't really done the kind of homework that needs to be done to "re-invent the phone" as they claim to have done. It's possible that that kind of work isn't glamorous enough for their designers. I'll be interested to see if Apple can prove me wrong on this.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I had enough.
freakout @ 3/28/2007 10:00:54 PM # Q
cervezas:
Even on the Treo (which is not as good as it could be)

Blasphemy! Be careful David: the Gods of Smartphones may see fit to strike you down for this heresy. ;)

The iPhone really should have been called the iPodPhone. That would have better identified their target audience and made it clearer that it was first and foremost a device for entertainment. I doubt many people who need a real smartphone for business purposes will be fooled.

Exactly. And not just business customers; there are those of us who need more than sliding menus and a souped-up iPod to make us jump ship.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: I had enough.
cervezas @ 3/28/2007 10:23:08 PM # Q
Blasphemy! Be careful David: the Gods of Smartphones may see fit to strike you down for this heresy. ;)

At least for the Treo I can write software to fix the problems I see. Software which, coincidentally, I happen to be working on right now. The heresy is that it looks like I'll be able to make it run on Windows Mobile and S60 as well as Palm OS. A threesome! :-o

Back to it....


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Update

VampireLestat @ 3/27/2007 1:45:59 AM # Q
I mailed the letters this afternoon.
Should take about 7 or 8 days to go from Montreal to Sunnyvale, California.
I sent 1 to Ed Colligan and a copy to the 'ATTN: Board of Directors'.

If/when I get a reply, I will post a copy immediately on the 'Big 3' sites (PIC, 1src and Brighthand).

To all handheld fans, if you are feeling up to it, write a letter also. Every bit helps I guess.
Palm, Inc. Corporate Headquarters
950 W. Maude Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085
=================


Gekko: very funny

RE: Update
mikecane @ 3/28/2007 1:09:59 PM # Q
Dear Schmuck:

We here at Palm Global HQ had a great big bellylaugh over your naive letter.

In fact, we blew it up to poster size.

It now hangs in our lobby.

Maybe you have a future in comedy?

Much love,

Ed C. & the Eejits

RE: Update
sungod @ 3/29/2007 4:37:09 AM # Q
Wile I agree with everything you said in your letter ( It was very inspirational I could here the patriotic music in the background).
I have to say mike is right it's just going to fall on deaf ears.

Long live my T|X.
How can you all live with that tiny screen.
I can't surf the net unless it's in landscape

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

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