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Comments on: Hawkin's New Device Expected Next Week

After years of hints, veiled references and rampant speculation, the fruits of Jeff Hawkin's secret project are expected to be revealed next week. Hawkin's is scheduled to present at the Wall Street Journal’s D: All Things Digital next Wednesday in Southern California.

Hawkins himself has hinted earlier this year that Palm fans "should keep a close watch on" what he reveals during the elite technology industry conference. Numerous theories abound as to exactly what we will see, but a number of recent hints from Palm executives and a look back at some of Hawkin's quotes provide some rough clues. In this article we take a look back at all the events leading up to the announcement and try to piece together a preview of what to expect.

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LifeDrive II - + cell

craigdts @ 5/25/2007 9:08:46 PM # Q
Jeff Hawkins: There is a third business that I've been working on but I'm not going to tell you what it is. It's in mobile computing. It's something different and it's in its early stage. We have three businesses at PalmOne. One you don't even know about, which is just a child. Another is the teenager and the other one is the mature 45-year-old.
Q: Can you give me a better idea about what this "child" technology is?

A: Not really. I'll give you a couple clues. I always think of mobile computing as personal computing. This long-term vision has led us through everything -- first the organizers and now through the smart phone space. It's like everything a personal computer is. Continue down that path. What are the implications of a world where everyone has a super high-speed Internet connection in their pocket and many gigabytes of storage, super-fast processors, audio, visual and multimedia? What are the consequences of that? How will that change computing when you have all that stuff available to you all the time? I try to think into the future. That's how we come up with new products. So I'm not going to tell you what it is, but it's following the consequences of mobile computing."

This quote came from an interview that was originally dated before the LifeDrive came out. Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

It will be interesting to see how the lifedrive has evolved, after they have learned from their mistakes and their usual misteps in researching the market before they release a device.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
craigdts @ 5/25/2007 9:12:37 PM # Q
BTW from a financial/stock standpoint. The ONLY way this impacts bottom line is IF it has cell capabilities and backing from a major carrier. If a major carrier does not purchase them in volume, push them, and get them to consumers then this device will have the same fate as the lifedrive - it will be a waste of R&D that may or may not get integrated into treos.
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/25/2007 9:41:08 PM # Q
I'd personally love to see TWO versions of the product.

One to be sold at retail for, say, $299-$399ish. Basically drop the TX $100 in price and position this device as its replacement. IR, Wi-Fi, and BT support out of the box coupled with very strong VOIP functionality would make this the ideal uber-PDA the Palm faithful have been waiting for since the T|T3.

Then a fancier version of the same device (maybe with more onboard storage) and an integrated cellular data-only radio could be sold through the existing carrier channels.

There are still many people that do not need or want anything cellular or carrier-supported. Device #1 would appeal to them (heck, maybe Palm could do it as a smaller production run just sold at Palm stores/kiosks, Palm.com and maybe one or two larger retail chains like BB, CC or OD). For everyone else (ie current Treo users) Device #2 fits the bill.

I essentially agree with Ryan on this one. I see it as something about the size of the Nokia n770/n800-sized (or perhaps a tad smaller) with a 20gb internal hard drive, a 640x480ish screen, and some kind of intelligent downclocking power management that will make traditional color PDA battery lives look pitiful in comparison.

P.S. I don't see the LifeDrive as ANYTHING but an oversized, memory hobbled PDA. They just called it a "Mobile Manager" because the term "PDA" was beginning to look very 1999ish by 2005. I mean, what's the difference between 4gb of flash & 4gb of MicroDrive space other than the usual size/durability/power concerns? Palm just took a T5's innards and shoehorned in a MicroDrive and wi-fi. There was nothing inherently wrong with the LifeDrive that 64mb+ of RealRAM and 2gb of flash instead of the MicroDrive couldn't have fixed.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:52:12 AM # Q
I tend to agree with you, craigdts, that the LifeDrive WAS The Next Great Thang until it was a flop.

Note that PALM management OTHER than Hawkins has never said ANYTHING about the Next Great Thang.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
ballistic @ 5/26/2007 10:25:04 AM # Q
craigdts wrote:

This quote came from an interview that was originally dated before the LifeDrive came out. Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

It will be interesting to see how the lifedrive has evolved, after they have learned from their mistakes and their usual misteps in researching the market before they release a device.


For the umteenth time: The LifeDrive IS/WAS NOT Palm's "Secret Third Business". See this chart for Palm's own categorization of Disruptive (orange) vs Sustaining (gray) vs Breakthrough (black) devices The "Hawk" is Palm's *third* disruptive device.

http://tinyurl.com/266knf


RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 9:03:07 AM # Q
For the umteenth time: The LifeDrive IS/WAS NOT Palm's "Secret Third Business".

Stop bothering us with the facts. We prefer our own version of reality. It's much more fun just to keep making stuff up instead of actually having to find supporting evidence.


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RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 10:07:18 AM # Q
Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

All else so far posted is wishful thinking and bizarro leaps of logic from "technology PR-fluff" to "lines of business".

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
craigdts @ 5/28/2007 1:33:10 PM # Q
Nevermind that the lifedrive is listed on Palms website as its own product category or product "line" since its inception.

Let's see . . . (1) Treo, (2) PDA, and . . . (3) Mobile Manager. The mobile manager line fits does everything that hawkins claimed it would do in the article (the fast connection was wifi). However no one wanted it. If this lifedrive was NOT the 3rd product then Palm should have been saying they had 4 lines! Unless they like to dismiss their current product lineup! . . . . one fully developed (PDA), one a teenager (treo), and two babies (Mobile manager/Lifedrive & the secret 4th! device). It is simply that hawkins missed the mark. It has its benefits (much like the treo in its infancy), it was still just a few years away .

I *think* Palm has finally learned the killer app is voice.

I think palms best bet would be to combine the PDA line and Mobile Manager line with a cell phone and sell it to carriers. Your

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
cervezas @ 5/28/2007 7:37:20 PM # Q
It's worth recalling that Handspring experimented with two mobile phone products (the failed VisorPhone and the Sprint Digital Link modules) before they figured out what would really work and developed the Treo.

I agree that the "Mobile Manager" moniker (and the fact that Palm's web site sometimes refers to "Mobile Managers" in the plural) suggests that the LiveDrive was Palm's first tentative foray into this new category that Hawkins is talking about. But I don't expect the new device to bear much more resemblance to the LifeDrive than the first Treos did to the VisorPhone. For one thing, it's almost certainly going to be running a new multi-tasking operating system with an Opera 9 browser that can have several windows open at a time. I've also got reason to believe it's going to have some pretty attractive graphical capabilities we've not seen on any Palm device before. And given Sprint's peculiar announcement that they will be releasing "3 or 4 PDAs" on their 3G network (not handsets) in Q4, it could very well be the case that the new device has a cellular radio, at least in one incarnation.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
freakout @ 5/28/2007 7:49:02 PM # Q
When Palm talk about a "broadband connection in your pocket", I think they're almost certainly referring to 3G cellular networks rather than wi-fi. Wi-fi coverage still - and may never be - as pervasive as cellular, so it just makes sense for any future "internet anywhere" device to include a cell radio. I'd be more surpised if this device didn't incorporate cellular connectivity of some kind.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 8:24:07 PM # Q
Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

I've no problem with the statement of "facts". I love to see the supporting evidence on either side of the argument. But the "conclusions" are a whole 'nother thing.

I make these snide little comments only to poke fun of the arrogance I see in the conclusions. These statements of conclusion put forth as fact simply are not (fact). They are guesses and opinions and possibly right or wrong.

I think this really might be a western male thing. You spout your "opinion" loudly as fact in the hope that if you sound certain enough you can convince enough people to agree with you. If enough people can be convinced to agree with you, then you are "right". If somehow the "fact" you came up with turns out to be wrong, then you either act like you never said it or find some strange method for spinning it so that you were still right all along. (American politics is a perfect example of how this system "works".)

Alternately one might say, "I think that evidence A, B, and C points to the possibility that D is going to happen. It will be interesting to see if that turns out to be true."

Then again, forget that! That's no fun at all. Let's just keep spouting our opinion as fact and acting like we were never wrong when we often are.


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RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:27:17 PM # Q
> ...Let's just keep spouting our opinion as fact...

Ahem...

Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

All else so far posted is wishful thinking and bizarro leaps of logic from "technology PR-fluff" to "lines of business".

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:29:15 PM # Q
> ...But I don't expect the new device to bear much more
> resemblance to the LifeDrive than the first Treos did
> to the VisorPhone...

As noted before, I don't expect a new device, but an entire system.

[and probably not much more than fluff, if that, at the conference this week]


RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/28/2007 8:37:40 PM # Q
I think the "whole new system" of the STB/NGT will be revealed (or at least outlined via some slides) as far as its inherent capabilities (LBS, Sprint as the WiMax partner of choice, tight integration with Mypalm.com etc) this week. The actual HARDWARE will remain unveiled until Septemberish as they are probably still fiddling/tweaking the specs.

Palm can occupy themselves with the 700p patch, the 750 WM6 update, Vista-compliant Palm Desktop, and a WM6-powered version of the 755p all prior to the "big" October release(s).


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:56:08 PM # Q
Yeah, that's pretty much the scenario I expect, too, but I'm not sure if they "do slides" at this particular conference or not (I haven't the faintest - did not watch previous year's videos, for example, but got some sort of "feeling" that they do not for some reason!].

Sometime back - somewhere - I posited that the latest (giggle) incarnation of The Next Great Thang will be a dumb phone connected to servers somewhere - a LifeDriveII with the same connectivity is fine by me as well.

[for some reason Steve Jobs mentioned patenting much of what the iPhone does in his initial presentation of it - I thought that was...curious. It is to be remembered that we already know at least SOME of the functionality of the iPhone is NOT resident on the iPhone...I wonder if Jobs was aiming those "we got da patents, chump!" comments at anyone we're interested in...]

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
freakout @ 5/28/2007 9:26:07 PM # Q
If Hawkins doesn't show at least some details on the new hardware then I would be very surprised. It's been a long time between drinks for new handhelds, and if they keep their PDA fans waiting any longer then they may give up for good... from the sounds of a lot of postings around the net some already have.
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/28/2007 9:28:02 PM # Q
Isn't the latest buzz that iPhone owners are going to be REQUIREd to have an unlimited data account attached to their iPhones?

No, I expect the TNG to definitely be either WiMax'd or EVDO'd in regards to its connectivity. Either way, look for Palm to be cozying up to Sprint about as closely as Apple did to Cingular/AT&T.

P.S.

SV: What is your daily phone/PDA/device? Just curious.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
cervezas @ 5/28/2007 11:48:12 PM # Q
During Analysts Day Colligan denied that Palm was doing anything with WiMax right now, remember? As I recall, that was when he made the quip about Palm being "leading edge, not bleeding edge." I think we are talking about WiFi and maybe 3G (data only) in v1.0.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 11:58:54 PM # Q
Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

This is a "conclusion". It might be true; it might not be true.

The quoted material above that statement of conclusion is "fact", i.e. it has been established that it was stated by Jeff Hawkins.

If I am wrong about that, please show me the links that prove so. I doubt that you can at this point. If you do, I will readily state that I was wrong. But please don't think that pointing me to a string of other people's "conclusions" will suffice to establish it as "fact".


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Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
PenguinPowered @ 5/29/2007 12:11:11 AM # Q
The secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm to be bought by Google."



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/29/2007 12:14:24 AM # Q
The secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm to be bought by Google."

Now that's a fact!


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Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 6:32:45 AM # Q
> ...he secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm
> to be bought by Google."

Google is purportedly already in cahoots with HTC.

Why do they need PALM again?

Why do they need PALM again even if they are NOT in cahoots with HTC?

WAY-OT: In fact, way-off-EVERY-topic: RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 7:00:35 AM # Q
> ...SV: What is your daily phone/PDA/device? Just curious.

My profile may or may not reveal to you the first and last PALM PDA I owned (still own). I bought two of them at the time for some outrageous price like approaching $400 each - one for spousie, one for me. Essentially added in a bunch of contacts, played with some flight planning software, etc.

But mostly just kept it in my briefcase using up batteries.

Eventually saw the light, took it out of my case, removed the batteries, put it and everything I had for it in a Ziploc bag, and put it down in a large cardboard box with other old devices (like a 300BPS modem) on a shelf in the basement where it sits to this day.

Turns out I didn't need it at all - work and play I'm always near a desktop computer (minimally). When I'm neither at work nor play (?) I never have a need for such a device (*).

It was geek-thrill overkill buy that I had no need for since it was a few steps DOWN from what I already had amply available everywhere I wanted to use such functionality.

==========

(*) GPS, for example, is way cool in a plane - FULL of functionality that can be absolutely necessary (even life saving!) when you're "up there". But in a car it's just totally useless to someone like me - I know where I am with all local driving, I fully plan "long distance" trips, I don't go on off-road excursions. I don't have a need to "find the best night spot" WHILE I'm driving. Watching a cool GPS device show me where I already know I am might be...well...cool but it certainly isn't very useful.

I don't even remember the last time I used a calculator away from work or house. If ever.

==========

Of course, now I have a nice Sony-Ericsson 520A (I think that's what it is). It has all the "contacts" I could possibly need "on the go". It has a calculator and calendar and appointment thingee; don't know nor care how to bring them up but it has them! It's also sufficiently smart that it can run Java programs if I choose. And it can, though I don't use it, surf the 'Net with couple clickety-clicks so Google Maps =is= available should I really really need to find a gas station or hospital or something while "on the very poorly marked for these days road".

==========

But that's all entirely unimportant - I couldn't care less (nor do I know) what YOU use on a daily basis; it is irrelevant as long as what you POST makes sense or is well (or even somewhat) supported with links to external information sources.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
scstraus2 @ 5/29/2007 7:35:54 AM # Q
I've got to immortalize my prediction so here goes:

I think it's one of 2 things.

1) A book sized tablet with an e-paper display for displaying web, documents, magazines, photos, internet, etc. with a tremendous battery life and good memory (8gb at least), and good content management from online store, and possibly storing all your stuff up there.

or

2) A very large storage device (40gb at least) that is fully pocketable and essentially all your stuff in a PDA format. Possibly instead of a large hard drive they will try to make you sync all of your stuff online and access it over the web, but my first instinct is that it will be a hard drive. This device will work well between home and office and make sure that all of your data is with you wherever you are, even if you're on your computer. That's including all your photos, mp3's, documents, really your whole life. Essentially the real life drive.

Well, I got my predictions in under the wire, can't wait to see what happens!

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
PilotMad @ 5/29/2007 10:19:53 AM # Q
Why can't someone just bring out an updated version of a HP Jornada 690/700 series type handheld (Or PSION) machine.

The clamshell/keyboard and formfactor is perfect for my needs. But it requires tft screen/memory/sd card/wifi/bluetooth/20 gig HD updates for an all-new 2007 version.

The tablet like UMPC format is silly.

I have a toshiba libretto U100 which would almost be perfect except for the poor keyboard and the overwieldly/bloated XP os, and it needs to be slimmer.

I only need a light palm os/linux palm os on a small device with a fast start up. Something near pocketable.

The death of the Handheld PC format due to Palm and Windows mobile was a mistake in my mind. It needs to be revived.

"You think that's air you're breathing now?" - Matrix.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/29/2007 11:06:50 AM # Q
I still think the most logical move would be for someone (in this case a hardware company--either a network equipment vendor or a flash memory company) to buy Palm to gain a foothold in the wireless market. I cannot help but shake the feeling that someone like Sandisk/Cisco/Dlink would be well-served to buy Palm to compete with the iPhone juggernaut. Look what a fine job Sandisk has done with their Sansa line--in shouting distance to the iPods in styling and size, much better featureset, and of course better bang for the buck. If nothing else, a company like that would at least cram 8gb+ of flash into the Treos AND make sure they adhere to the latest standards (USB2, SDHC etc).

This is, of course, assuming Palm and/or their theoretical suitor still wants to be a hardware company and not merely a services provider.

P.S. On that note, I think Palm is rapidly approaching the breaking point with the 755p. I've never seen a mobile device preloaded with so many icons and shortcuts and crippled trialware apps. It looks like Palm has realized they are behind the curve hardware and OS-wise so they are going to try to emulated a modern bloatware-laden PC! I wonder if this is a Sprint thing, a Palm thing, or....both? And IF Verizon offers the 755p WILL they stuff it with so much junk? I somehow doubt it. Verizon didn't even put VersaMail in ROM on the 700p!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 8:47:54 AM # Q
== "...Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was
== the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy")
== that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line
== product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception
== to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at
== this new product..."

You hit it right on the head, craigdts.

And now, as another poster noted, they changed "Mobile Manager" to "Mobile Companion" as their link on their website, further reinforcing the thought.

So, okay, if at first you don't succeed...

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 6/1/2007 9:38:35 PM # Q
Exerpt from http://tinyurl.com/2tjrd8

Q: Is this the "third baby" that you have talked about working on?
Hawkins: It is. I actually think it's going to be the biggest one of all.

Ok, can you finally just shut up about what the facts are? Or are you now going to go into "whirling dervish" mode to show us all how the Foleo is the LifeDrive II?

(We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
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RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 8:13:38 AM # Q
Foleo is LifeDrive II - live with it.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 6/2/2007 11:25:56 AM # Q
Here's another story for the Hawkins mythology. We've all heard about the "wood block" Hawkins used when he designed the original Pilot; carrying it around and 'using' it to get a feel for how a digital organizer should be. There was a very similar story for the Foleo. Five years ago (!), Hawkins and Peter Skillman got together and grabbed a PC keyboard and set it on top of a photocopier. The took that piece of paper, cut it down to the size they wanted, and then taped it to a piece of foam board, then using some tape to make a hinge to attach the 'screen.'

So let's see, Hawkins and Skillman created a mock up of the Foleo five years ago that included a full size keyboard and hinged screen. Hawkins states clearly that this Foleo is the "third baby", the "third leg", the product that is in its "infancy". The Foleo bears about as much resemblance to the LifeDrive as an elephant does to a duck. The LifeDrive does bear a striking resemblance to the rest of the PDA line in size, shape and features. And after all of that, you somehow want us to suspend any sense of reality and to somehow conclude that the Foleo is the LifeDrive II?

What a nut!




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Reply to this comment

Another Turd?

razorpit @ 5/25/2007 9:21:19 PM # Q
The last time there was a big hype like this for a mystery product it turned out to be the steamy mess we all know as the Segway. I'm not holding my breath for anything special this time around.

RE: Another Turd?
rmhurdman @ 5/25/2007 11:06:16 PM # Q
We don't know exactly what it will be, but we can be pretty certain of one thing: Palm will find a way to screw it up and disappoint us yet again. If they hadn't tried to raise our hopes so high, we would maybe be pleasantly surprised. But with all the hype, it's almost impossible to live up to all the expectations that have been circulated.

It's hard to understand how "bigger than a PDA, smaller than a UMPC" qualifies as something top secret and brand new. I bet the people at Palm are cursing the iPhone which, I bet, stole their thunder. That really seems like something innovative and it's going to make anything Palm comes up with look like something a child made. Poorly.

That's my prediction and I'll stand by it.

RE: Another Turd?
PacManFoo @ 5/25/2007 11:40:03 PM # Q
They may as well start on the ROM replacement and Patches for it as well.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: Another Turd?
LiveFaith @ 5/26/2007 12:20:05 AM # Q
**They may as well start on the ROM replacement and Patches for it as well.**
Why stop there when a class action lawsuit filing could also be in the works?!? That's hillarious Pacman!

Actually, all this is the the release of the much belabored Treo 800g.

Pat Horne

RE: Another Turd?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:54:15 AM # Q
> ...I bet the people at Palm are cursing the iPhone which,
> I bet, stole their thunder...

Nah - THAT didn't steal their thunder, the UMPC lines did. You have to remember UMPC is a NEW thing that overshadowed the LifeDrive like there was no tomorrow.

RE: Another Turd?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 8:31:49 AM # Q
Speaking of UMPCs - some thoughts from others from awhile back re The Next Great Thang:

-- http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/32084

Reply to this comment

What I would like to see

jonecool @ 5/26/2007 12:57:38 AM # Q
My personal thought is that it will be a PDA type of device that is "adaptive" and runs on top of a customized Linux release. This device+OS will operate as a PDA+Phone while away from the convenience of a large display and full-size keyboard. However, once you are in your office, you plug the device into the charger (or Dock) and it becomes a full desktop-like computing experience utilizing existing Displays and external hardware (perhaps even a USB adapter to take advantage of your current Laptop or Desktop computing environment). All data will be stored locally to the unit so you have everything with you wherever you go but in a Treo-sized form factor (40GB+ estimated). At the office, you have a more desktop-like experience using this portable appliance. One other key design feature is that in either mode, PDA or Desktop, you will have the ability to "speak to" your personal digital assistant to locate information on the device.

The above is pure speculation and only what I personally would like to see developed. However, if I'm anywhere near the mark I'll let this e-mail be proof of my guess :-)

RE: What I would like to see
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:56:12 AM # Q
> ...All data will be stored locally to the unit...

I think PALM will try to take "the network IS the computer" concept a little further than that.

Bill Coleman was brought on board as a director for SOME reason!


Re: What I would like to see
dirkmeissner @ 5/28/2007 1:07:20 PM # Q
My personal thought about a new device is an integrated device.

- Music playback (incl. support for Online Music Store)
- Video playback (screen size 640x480 or 1024x768 would be nice)
- No hard disk, 4 to 8 GB of Memory instead
- build in GPS incl. TomTom
- Encyclopedia, like Wikipedia offline
- Dictonaries
- Backup of PIM, EMail, etc. (like the Danger Hiptop)
- Instant Messenger
- Bundled with earphones, bluetooth keyboard, external loudspeakers, etc.
- Build in Camera (3 megapixel or more)
- I would not need a phone, but it won't sell without it.

III-->V-->m500-->T|E-->T|T5-->LifeDrive

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when will this device be available for purchase?

yOyOYoo @ 5/26/2007 2:22:50 AM # Q
so should I hold off on buying a Treo 755p tommorrow??!?

RE: when will this device be available for purchase?
ComputerGeek9866 @ 5/26/2007 7:37:22 AM # Q
Reference: "Another Turd?"
Reply to this comment

UMPC

VampireLestat @ 5/26/2007 6:24:27 PM # Q
It better be comfortable in the pocket and have an OLED screen.

RE: UMPC
VampireLestat @ 5/26/2007 8:49:35 PM # Q
You can feel the new Palm excitement in the air!

Woohoo!

Wednesday can't come fast enough.

RE: UMPC
VampireLestat @ 5/26/2007 9:16:14 PM # Q
hmm... I am just reading opinions from the guys over at Brighthand.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13051
Many of them are talking about fancy things such as

LBS (Location Based Services).

Where the hell did that concept come from? These guys must have inside info. They could not have simply pulled that out of their hats. Suspicious.

LBS sounds intriguing. I don't know what it is in real life but I started imagining the following...

Hawkins talks about wanting to make the computer think like a human mind. Well, I started thinking on how I think. Then I realized that I need info based on where I physically am at any given time and what time of day it is. What if LBS meant that my Palm would use GPS to know where I am e.g., say I am at work, it would then show me all my work related to do in a highlighted color and at the top of my PIM lists? If I am at the grocery... my shopping list? I am going to bed... would it pull up my eBook or favorite talkshow mp3 and wait for me to start playing it? Is that what Numenta is about? A computer than learns how to present relevant info to me and prioritize resources based on time, location, temperature, detection of repeated tasks, etc?
Could it connect to the Internet check my weather based on GPS and warn me to bring an umbrella? Could it intelligently track gas prices and tell me where to go buy the cheapest gas all while considering the cost in time and gas to actually reach and comeback from that gas station? The possibilities of optimizing resources and time are truely thrilling.

If this is not what Numenta is about, then I want the above to be invented.
Scientists and programmers unite and let's get the above mobile computing revolution started!

RE: UMPC
PenguinPowered @ 5/26/2007 10:36:22 PM # Q
LBS is a google-ism, iirc. The idea has been around for at least a decade in the research community and is more or less what you're wishing for in the labs.

Google's version is, of course, a bit more pragmatic, and consists of targeting ads to you based on where you are as well as who you are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location-based_service covers the topic.

If LBS is part of the 3rd business, Palm is late out of the gate.

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC
cervezas @ 5/26/2007 10:55:37 PM # Q
LBS (Location Based Services).

Where the hell did that concept come from?

I've mentioned a couple of times that Palm was posting some positions for engineers with GPS experience back near the beginning of the year. One example read like this:

Duties/Responsibilities:

Responsibilities will include design, implementation, and optimization of Location Based Service (LBS) SW for our Windows Mobile, Palm OS, and Linux based smart phones.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: UMPC
SeldomVisitor @ 5/27/2007 7:20:28 AM # Q
Near the beginning of the year? Like 5 months ago...max?

That suggests the software will not be ready for prime time til...when...?

[yes yes yes - that question assumes "ready for prime time" is a standard PALM target for released software]

RE: UMPC
cervezas @ 5/27/2007 10:59:17 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
That suggests the software will not be ready for prime time til...when...?

It doesn't suggest anything about when or even if the software will be released. Could be never, could be three years from now, could be three days from now. A job posting gives you a clue about what a company is working on but tells you nothing about when they started working on it or whether it is an actual product in the works (could be just research). My point was that this, as well as a couple of brief comments about LBS by Palm execs probably account for the discussion over at Brighthand.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: UMPC
Nycran @ 5/28/2007 11:35:11 PM # Q
I'd put money on it that LBS and other artificial intelligence driven fancy pants stuff will be the heart and the business driver for the new device. Hawkins has said over and over that he's always wanted to work on 'the brain'. Come on, he setup Numenta for a reason. Whilst google has implemented LBS, Palm will be the first to deliver an open architecture where ISV's can create 'thinking' solutions heretofore thought to be impossible. Bring on the revolution, god knows we're ready for it!

Reply to this comment

OT: hawkins

vetdoctor @ 5/27/2007 7:03:28 PM # Q
Do you think the new Hawkins device has a cassette player? I really miss my Moody Blues. The sound quality is much better than mp3's too.
RE: OT: hawkins
mikecane @ 5/28/2007 1:18:42 PM # Q
HAHAHA!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

Reply to this comment

WOW - little interest

Rhauer @ 5/27/2007 9:17:42 PM # Q
Only 23 comments after 2 days. Seems like there is very little interest. It seems like a year ago this would have created a lot more interested.

My TX is dying so I can't wait to see what the design is like. Design and style, and a big harddrive will make or break this new device. Fingers crossed for something good.

RE: WOW - little interest
freakout @ 5/27/2007 11:09:35 PM # Q
I think everyone's waiting for the device to actually be announced - when we first heard about this upcoming announcement (http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9281/hawkins-hints-at-new-product-announcement-in-may/), it got 88 comments.

Check again on Wednesday!

RE: WOW - little interest
mikecane @ 5/28/2007 1:19:47 PM # Q
I have a new (well, bought used, but still looks new!) LifeDrive I've just sex-changed into a LifeFlash.

All else can wait.

RE: WOW - little interest
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 3:59:12 PM # Q
As a LifeFlash it probably is more advanced than The Next Great Thang.

RE: WOW - little interest
hkklife @ 5/28/2007 4:33:54 PM # Q
Mike;

Care to give the poor unwashed PIC masses a mini review of how the LD is doing now that it's been turned into a LifeFlash?

Did you use the "regular" blue Sandisk 4gb CF card?

I haven't followed the scene very closely but I remember being majorly bummed that you could not (at the time) swap out the MicroDrive for a really flash Ultra III or IV CF card or something.

Palm really should have skipped the LifeDrive entirely and released two versions of the TX, one like the current model but earlier in '05 then a quick followup model in fall '05 with 2gb of internal flash and trumpeted its PIM/media (not just mp3)/gaming/online capabilities.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: WOW - little interest
rcartwright @ 5/28/2007 10:09:50 PM # Q
I would also point out that in the US this is Memorial Day weekend. A lot of folks with lives are out and about. Also, as somone else posted, everyone will KNOW within the next two days.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
Reply to this comment

Could it be.....

joad @ 5/28/2007 1:44:13 AM # Q
Could the "fruits of Hawkin's secret project" be the long awaited firmware fix for the 700p's bluetooth and lag? It's supposedly due about the same time - end of May. If it isn't, from the looks of this thread compared to the excitement in the threads about this pending firmware release, it appears that people have much more interest in getting support on a year-old Treo than anything Hawkin has been working on for years. Pretty sad for Palm, actually.

RE: Could it be.....
VampireLestat @ 5/28/2007 3:26:22 AM # Q
That is the result of years of neglect.

Reply to this comment

Cat's Outta the Bag!

LiveFaith @ 5/29/2007 12:14:50 AM # Q
Mr. Hawkins will reveal a device with a new form factor.

It will have a keyboard, be thinner than recent Treos but be a bit larger frontally and have a larger landscape (rectangular) oriented OLED display.

It will not be too large to be pocketed or hip-holstered, thus it will be significantly smaller than a UMPC and even some large PDAs. It is very portable, not something to be "carried".

It will be shown with 60gb of onboard storage (20gb will also be mentioned), as well as miniSD expansion.

It will have 400mhz+ under the hood, dedicated video graphics and a DSP, with an integrated array of power management features to help fuel economy.

Wireless will be BTv2, CDMA (850/1900 MHz) radio with EVDO and legacy 1xRTT. Most notably will be the brand new WiMax data (announced in concert with Sprint's honchos on stage). Wireless is where the action is, as this device will offer more web based data storage / retrieval and even some location based services, integrated in a way not seen before on a Palm. WiFi will once again NOT be present, nor will the longstanding infrared capability.

Device will run on the new Palm OS Linux layer and will be fully compatible with legacy "well written" Palm OS apps. Wireless "transfers" will be handled seamlessly across multiple radios.

Other notables: A camera will be on the device with 2.1mpx and have strong video capability. The price of admission for top versions will also be a bit high, but not out of line with Palm's past high-end smartphone and PDA releases. USBv2 will be the wired connector. Hotsync will give way to a newer integrated sync mechanism. The new OS will hint at it's Palm OS roots, but will be much more graphical and modern. The recent media apps on Treos fit very well with the GUI scheme. New fonts will be available throughout, but will not extend to legacy apps. A portfolio of integrated multimedia and web tools, onboard, for PC/Mac and on even Palm's new web portal (at release) are designed to put this technology in a class by itself.

Most notably, the announcement will reveal an early fall release date and a series of devices of the same genre to come, based on more or less hardware features and pricing points. You should see no leaks on the internet, since Jeff will actually be "leaking" a future device. Palm will have it's usual "photo leaks" over the summer. A higher and lower cost device will be released on Sprint USA in early fall. No word on GSM carriers or VZW. This will be the future of Palm computing going forward.

The hardware will evoke "it's about time Palm", but the web based and multimedia integration is where the headlines will be made. This is exciting!

Pat Horne

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
LiveFaith @ 5/29/2007 12:23:29 AM # Q
... I forgot to include the announcement in conjunction with Sprint on the Qualcomm mobile TV service on the high end model.

Pat Horne
RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
Nycran @ 5/29/2007 12:55:01 AM # Q
Well said Pat! I think you've hit the nail right on the head.

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
VampireLestat @ 5/29/2007 2:34:09 AM # Q
Please please please let this be true.
It sounds perfect!

And... *near crying*... OLED!


RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
freakout @ 5/29/2007 2:39:34 AM # Q
That sounds quite plausible, Pat - except the wi-fi bit. The job postings for wi-fi engineers, combined with the fact that it is way overdue as standard on Palm devices makes me think that Palm aren't going to leave it out of this one...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
VampireLestat @ 5/29/2007 2:45:59 AM # Q
What do you mean 'plausible'? Is the above post Pat's imagination or did he get a leak?

Pat, if this is your wild imagination and idea of a sick joke, please tell us.

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
hkklife @ 5/29/2007 2:57:00 AM # Q
It's Pat's wildly over-active imagination (combined with the boredom of a long holiday weekend)! ;-)

Seriously, bud, if you got a leak from somewhere then by all means point us in the right direction!

I don't see how it can be OLED-enabled, 60gb HD-enabled, and touting a keyboard AND a landscape screen and STILL be pocketable at all.

And no word on voice functionality either!

And leaving off the IR functionality would be a very foolish move considering all of the trouble they've gone to to maintain compatibility with "well written" legacy FrankenGarnet apps. Think of all of the old apps with "beam" commands!??!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
VampireLestat @ 5/29/2007 3:06:21 AM # Q
hkklife,

You took the words out of my mouth.
How can it have a keyb + widescreen? Unless it is one of those sliding-out-from-underneath keybs.

OLED... man o man, if that is true, it will be a revolution.
It will bring true movie and picture playing on a mobile device, a first outside Japan (latest Clie is oled).

OLED means longer battery life, thinner, true blacks (a necessity for movies), fast refresh rates, rich vibrant color, closer to the surface pixels, WIDE VIEWING ANGLES (C-R-I-T-I-C-A-L)

Honestly, OLED alone will dramatically boost sales of any new Palm device. It is THAT important.
You will start seeing people standing (hopefully they are not retarded and thought about make a design than can STAND up on a desk.. sigh.. why do I get a funny feeling about this..) up their new Palm on their desk, kitchen table, they will play TV and movies while doing other things e.g., playing on the computer, washing the dishes, running on the treadmill. Etc. It WILL become a first time true mobile multimedia device.

I know this may sound off coming free me, but I hope it also has voice cellular in it so it can draw the support of Treo owners. I have no problem with telephony, in fact I see it as the present and the future of mobile computing, my quarrel with abandoning PDA and going all Treo is that the Treo is not a device tailored for a powerful and optimized multimedia-centric mobile device.



RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
VampireLestat @ 5/29/2007 3:24:24 AM # Q
hkklife,

I haven't used IR, ever.
Well actually I used it 1 time to test NoviiRemote.
I think it is time to retire it.

Bluetooth v2 might be better than WiFi. For use in the home and gadget (wireless headphones, keyb).
And WiMAX, or EVDO for anywhere high speed.


Wikipedia says --->
Bluetooth 2.0
This version, specified in November 2004, is backward-compatible with 1.1. The main enhancement is the introduction of an enhanced data rate (EDR) of 3.0 Mbit/s. This has the following effects:[6]

* Three times faster transmission speed—up to 10 times in certain cases (up to 2.1 Mbit/s).
* Lower power consumption through a reduced duty cycle.
* Simplification of multi-link scenarios due to more available bandwidth.
* Further improved (bit error rate) performance.


RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
VampireLestat @ 5/29/2007 3:30:24 AM # Q
hmm... I wonder if the dedicated video chip will play 320x480 (or higher) x264 (video codec).

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
freakout @ 5/29/2007 4:01:25 AM # Q
What do you mean 'plausible'?

I was being incredibly sarcastic. Sorry Vamp - sometimes its hard to convey in text...

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 7:18:06 AM # Q
> Mr. Hawkins will reveal a device with...

Oh gawd!

You DO realize (*) how fast your post is going to spread across the 'Net, right?

[and a corollary about this is: You DO realize how hard it's going to be for PALM to meet the expectations of so many made-up-on-the-fly features of your and others' posts, don't you?]

==========

(*) I know, I know, just another datapoint for your Psych PhD thesis, but sheesh!

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 7:20:11 AM # Q
Oh for Pete's sake - it had already begun!

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=143934

Giggle.

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
mikecane @ 5/29/2007 11:03:31 AM # Q
>>>I don't see how it can be OLED-enabled, 60gb HD-enabled, and touting a keyboard AND a landscape screen and STILL be pocketable at all.

Duh. Zauruses were pocketable. And iPods sport *80GB* HDs.

As for what he wrote, people who spread rumors like that should be horsewhipped!

I came into this expecting a *link* to a believable source. Instead it comes from the same guy who used to deprive his wife of sex by staying up nights Photoshopping fake PDAs.

Puhleeze.

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
hkklife @ 5/29/2007 11:22:16 AM # Q
All of that COULD be possible in a single pocketable (and affordable and usable) device. I'm just doubting Palm's ability to spend so freely on cutting-edge hardware. And doubting Palm's ability to microengineer it all into a tidy little package. And doubting Palm's ability to do all of that fancy stuff while maintaining decent battery life.

No, far more likely given Palm's usual track record is a largeish 480x320 landscape TFT LCD, a slightly-larger-than-Treo keyboard, a 20gb HDD, and EVDO + BT 2.0 without wi-fi.

I think the key consideration here is voice. Will it be a voice-centric design like the Treo's candybar? Or will it have voice as a mere secondary role and be like a modern Tungsten W (voice only via headset--in this case via Bluetooth)? Or will it omit voice entirely and go for a strong data-only push?

Ya know, the more and more I think about it (and experience it), I still think voice is SO critical (at least for me) of a killer app that it should be left to dumbphones. Sound quality, call volume, speakerphone clarity, etc. apears to be getting worse on each subsequent generation of cell phones (especially smartphones).
Between the carriers' overloaded networks and the arms race to roll out wireless broadband instead of tweaking things for good-soundng (I wish I could find the report I read a few months ago to back me up) voice, it seems like voice-while touted as THE killer app-is increasingly being shortchanged. It'll be quite some time (if ever?) before I experience a smartphone as clear-sounding as some of the classic tri-mode CDMA Motorolas such as the V710/V3c/Startac 7800w.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Cat's Outta the Bag!
LiveFaith @ 5/29/2007 11:51:05 PM # Q
HKK, Vamp, etc. How many times do I have to go to the well before you all quit doubting. You should know by now that am not privy to "leaks". Jeff and company always come to me first to get the new designs. I just pass a little to you all every now and then. The Treo 480v, the 800g, and the T|C2 are just a few that come to mind. Sometimes people just are not ready to be graced with such privy. Maybe this time, you'll realize your visitation. :-D

Cane, you are wrong as always. The deal is exactly opposite. I receive services based on the number of news releases. You came crawling back to PIC from your Scandanavian disaster, b/c you new where the hot leaks were at. No pun intended. :-o

I'll have one of my people release a few pics for you tomorrow!

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

They've made it official now - LifeDrive !! seems about right, IM

SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 11:11:18 AM # Q
PALM has released a PR-fluff about tomorrow.

RE: They've made it official now - LifeDrive !! seems about right
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 11:11:54 AM # Q
Well - that Subject SHOULD read "LifeDrive II" and "IMHO"...

Reply to this comment

What I was and still am hoping for

JPT|X @ 5/29/2007 12:18:28 PM # Q
Linux that runs old palm software- great!
UMPC type size with a fold to make it pocketable - looks like no
non-cell and cell versions or even pay-as-you-go- looks like no
IR- looks like no
Movie player/video oriented- looks good
lots of memory- more than needed, I think
wifi- no-
decent bluetooth- looks like yes
universal system to borrow keyboard and screen from a pc or use a generic keyboard and screen- looks like no
durable as heck- we'll see
great browsing experience- we'll see
no digitizer drift, unexplained hum or tricky connection contacts- we'll see
water resistant- we'll see

ties in directly to your brain- we'll save that for later...



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