MobileInfocenter

Hawkin's New Device Expected Next Week

After years of hints, veiled references and rampant speculation, the fruits of Jeff Hawkin's secret project are expected to be revealed next week. Hawkin's is scheduled to present at the Wall Street Journal’s D: All Things Digital next Wednesday in Southern California.

Hawkins himself has hinted earlier this year that Palm fans "should keep a close watch on" what he reveals during the elite technology industry conference. Numerous theories abound as to exactly what we will see, but a number of recent hints from Palm executives and a look back at some of Hawkin's quotes provide some rough clues. In this article we take a look back at all the events leading up to the announcement and try to piece together a preview of what to expect.

A look back

The earliest indications that Palm founder Jeff Hawkins had a major new project in the works came in August of 2005. In an interview, Mr. Hawkins revealed for the first time that Palm had a new "child" technology in the works which was completely separate from Palm Inc's PDA and smartphone businesses.

Jeff Hawkins: There is a third business that I've been working on but I'm not going to tell you what it is. It's in mobile computing. It's something different and it's in its early stage. We have three businesses at PalmOne. One you don't even know about, which is just a child. Another is the teenager and the other one is the mature 45-year-old.

Q: Can you give me a better idea about what this "child" technology is?

A: Not really. I'll give you a couple clues. I always think of mobile computing as personal computing. This long-term vision has led us through everything -- first the organizers and now through the smart phone space. It's like everything a personal computer is. Continue down that path. What are the implications of a world where everyone has a super high-speed Internet connection in their pocket and many gigabytes of storage, super-fast processors, audio, visual and multimedia? What are the consequences of that? How will that change computing when you have all that stuff available to you all the time? I try to think into the future. That's how we come up with new products. So I'm not going to tell you what it is, but it's following the consequences of mobile computing.

Tux the linux penguin with a treo 650Roughly around the same time job listings on Palm Inc's jobs website listed numerous positions for Linux development for a new generation of Palm devices. The company posted detailed openings for hiring linux software engineers, smartphone browser developers as well as a positions for Mobile Handset development. This in turn led to further speculation that Palm Inc was planning to build its own Linux based operating system.

In the spring of 2006, David Beers wrote an article for PalmInfocenter entitled Palm's Open Secrets Exposed. In his article David made the case that Palm is indeed building their own Linux-based system for future Palm devices, based on an analysis of job postings and insider comments. His article also showed that Palm was making investments in future client/server based software and services including device management and over the air firmware updating technology.

The first thing that stands out--and has at least since I started checking in August of last year--are the openings for Linux engineers. The idea--I'll go out on a limb and say fact--that Palm has been working on a new Linux-based system for future Palm devices has been discussed quite a bit on this site. Whether or not you believe leaks by an analyst insider who states categorically that Palm's Linux OS is real and coming in 2007, the evidence from the job descriptions is pretty strong. Past and current openings for embedded Linux engineers have been replete with statements like "You will be responsible for the design and development of components of a new software platform." A new posting this month for a "Linux Tools Engineer" seems to indicate that Palm is starting to prepare development tools for this new platform:

"We're looking for an assertive candidate to help shape and maintain our Linux environments, and to deliver innovative tools to be used in creating Palm's world-class mobile devices. The tools include a wide variety of applications from hardware test utilities running on devices to debuggers running on the desktop."

In late 2006, former Palm employee Michael Mace reported on his blog that Palm CEO told him in conversation that Hawkins "secret project" will debut sometime next year (in 2007). Mace also stated that He knew a number of very bright people at Palm moved to work on it, more than a year ago.

Shortly thereafter Palm announced that they had signed a perpetual licensing agreement with ACCESS for Palm OS Garnet. The deal put Palm back in control of the classic Palm OS with legal access to the source code and the right to make changes and innovate on the Palm OS Garnet code base. A key section of the agreement clearly stated that the contract also provides Palm flexibility to use Palm OS Garnet in whole or in part in any Palm product, and together with any other system technologies.

Hints, hints and more hints...

In March of this year, when the secret third business came up in an interview Hawkins told PalmAddicts:

"We’re going to be announcing something…but I won’t tell you what it is…we will be launching this year, not in the distant future. I’ll give you a much bigger hint: I’m going to be speaking at Walt Mossberg’s D Conference in May. It’s a high-end industry conference. Anyway, I’m going to be giving a talk there, and that would be something for the Palm fans to keep a close watch on."

During Palm's Q3FY07 Investor conference call a question came up about future product releases. In response Ed Colligan stated "Clearly we [Palm] have been working on a major new area that has been speculated about in the press and talked about by Jeff Hawkins."

Palm's Linux Based Mobile Platform

At Palm Inc's Analyst Day in early April, Ed Colligan officially announced that Palm will deliver a new Linux and open source based mobile computing platform combined with Palm OS Garnet technology on new products later this year.

Hawkins Mystery Device SlideDetails at the time were very light and only based on the brief remarks from Colligan. He described the new platform as a "new foundation for Palm" and said it will combine aspects of Palm OS Garnet and a Linux core. He also added that Palm plans to "evolve" the Palm Developer community to this new platform, indicating that this is the new way forward for Palm's in-house future OS strategy.

Colligan then went on to talk about the key points that a device that would use this platform would feature, giving us the best "official" hints we have to go on about the "mystery device". He continually stressed the importance of the user experience citing the ability to have an instant on, highly portable device with great battery life. Another key aspect would be the device's web browsing experience. Colligan said Palm is focusing highly on connected web applications and web services built around mobile devices. He cited the ability to easily backup and restore over the web, delivering software and device updates over the internet and wireless software distribution. The recent Opera brower licensing agreement is likely tied to this new platform.

Predictions
For once Palm has kept a new device closely under wraps without a single leak leading up to its announcement. It's a very tough call but If I had to make some predictions I'd put it somewhere between a UMPC and a high end PDA. I'm expecting a tablet like form factor with a ultra high resolution display. It will offer a full desktop like web browsing experience on a very small portable handheld. I also think Palm will include some significant new battery and power management technology to power a large display and wireless access and still keep the size respectable. Finally, I also expect it to include a drastically more modern user interface, multitasking abilities and built out versions of the classic Palm PIM applications.

What exactly the device will turn out to be is really anyone's guess up until Wednesday. However, it is clear that the unit will somewhat resemble a Internet tablet, PDA-like device. Something that is highly portable with fast wireless wifi access running Palm's new Linux based platform with Palm OS compatibility.

And there we have it. The long drawn out tease will finally be over next Wednesday as Jeff Hawkins gives his presentation at the Wall Street Journal’s D: All Things Digital conference. While the event is not open to the general public or press, PalmInfocenter will have a full report next Wednesday.

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LifeDrive II - + cell

craigdts @ 5/25/2007 9:08:46 PM # Q
Jeff Hawkins: There is a third business that I've been working on but I'm not going to tell you what it is. It's in mobile computing. It's something different and it's in its early stage. We have three businesses at PalmOne. One you don't even know about, which is just a child. Another is the teenager and the other one is the mature 45-year-old.
Q: Can you give me a better idea about what this "child" technology is?

A: Not really. I'll give you a couple clues. I always think of mobile computing as personal computing. This long-term vision has led us through everything -- first the organizers and now through the smart phone space. It's like everything a personal computer is. Continue down that path. What are the implications of a world where everyone has a super high-speed Internet connection in their pocket and many gigabytes of storage, super-fast processors, audio, visual and multimedia? What are the consequences of that? How will that change computing when you have all that stuff available to you all the time? I try to think into the future. That's how we come up with new products. So I'm not going to tell you what it is, but it's following the consequences of mobile computing."

This quote came from an interview that was originally dated before the LifeDrive came out. Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

It will be interesting to see how the lifedrive has evolved, after they have learned from their mistakes and their usual misteps in researching the market before they release a device.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
craigdts @ 5/25/2007 9:12:37 PM # Q
BTW from a financial/stock standpoint. The ONLY way this impacts bottom line is IF it has cell capabilities and backing from a major carrier. If a major carrier does not purchase them in volume, push them, and get them to consumers then this device will have the same fate as the lifedrive - it will be a waste of R&D that may or may not get integrated into treos.
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/25/2007 9:41:08 PM # Q
I'd personally love to see TWO versions of the product.

One to be sold at retail for, say, $299-$399ish. Basically drop the TX $100 in price and position this device as its replacement. IR, Wi-Fi, and BT support out of the box coupled with very strong VOIP functionality would make this the ideal uber-PDA the Palm faithful have been waiting for since the T|T3.

Then a fancier version of the same device (maybe with more onboard storage) and an integrated cellular data-only radio could be sold through the existing carrier channels.

There are still many people that do not need or want anything cellular or carrier-supported. Device #1 would appeal to them (heck, maybe Palm could do it as a smaller production run just sold at Palm stores/kiosks, Palm.com and maybe one or two larger retail chains like BB, CC or OD). For everyone else (ie current Treo users) Device #2 fits the bill.

I essentially agree with Ryan on this one. I see it as something about the size of the Nokia n770/n800-sized (or perhaps a tad smaller) with a 20gb internal hard drive, a 640x480ish screen, and some kind of intelligent downclocking power management that will make traditional color PDA battery lives look pitiful in comparison.

P.S. I don't see the LifeDrive as ANYTHING but an oversized, memory hobbled PDA. They just called it a "Mobile Manager" because the term "PDA" was beginning to look very 1999ish by 2005. I mean, what's the difference between 4gb of flash & 4gb of MicroDrive space other than the usual size/durability/power concerns? Palm just took a T5's innards and shoehorned in a MicroDrive and wi-fi. There was nothing inherently wrong with the LifeDrive that 64mb+ of RealRAM and 2gb of flash instead of the MicroDrive couldn't have fixed.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:52:12 AM # Q
I tend to agree with you, craigdts, that the LifeDrive WAS The Next Great Thang until it was a flop.

Note that PALM management OTHER than Hawkins has never said ANYTHING about the Next Great Thang.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
ballistic @ 5/26/2007 10:25:04 AM # Q
craigdts wrote:

This quote came from an interview that was originally dated before the LifeDrive came out. Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

It will be interesting to see how the lifedrive has evolved, after they have learned from their mistakes and their usual misteps in researching the market before they release a device.


For the umteenth time: The LifeDrive IS/WAS NOT Palm's "Secret Third Business". See this chart for Palm's own categorization of Disruptive (orange) vs Sustaining (gray) vs Breakthrough (black) devices The "Hawk" is Palm's *third* disruptive device.

http://tinyurl.com/266knf


RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 9:03:07 AM # Q
For the umteenth time: The LifeDrive IS/WAS NOT Palm's "Secret Third Business".

Stop bothering us with the facts. We prefer our own version of reality. It's much more fun just to keep making stuff up instead of actually having to find supporting evidence.


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RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 10:07:18 AM # Q
Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

All else so far posted is wishful thinking and bizarro leaps of logic from "technology PR-fluff" to "lines of business".

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
craigdts @ 5/28/2007 1:33:10 PM # Q
Nevermind that the lifedrive is listed on Palms website as its own product category or product "line" since its inception.

Let's see . . . (1) Treo, (2) PDA, and . . . (3) Mobile Manager. The mobile manager line fits does everything that hawkins claimed it would do in the article (the fast connection was wifi). However no one wanted it. If this lifedrive was NOT the 3rd product then Palm should have been saying they had 4 lines! Unless they like to dismiss their current product lineup! . . . . one fully developed (PDA), one a teenager (treo), and two babies (Mobile manager/Lifedrive & the secret 4th! device). It is simply that hawkins missed the mark. It has its benefits (much like the treo in its infancy), it was still just a few years away .

I *think* Palm has finally learned the killer app is voice.

I think palms best bet would be to combine the PDA line and Mobile Manager line with a cell phone and sell it to carriers. Your

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
cervezas @ 5/28/2007 7:37:20 PM # Q
It's worth recalling that Handspring experimented with two mobile phone products (the failed VisorPhone and the Sprint Digital Link modules) before they figured out what would really work and developed the Treo.

I agree that the "Mobile Manager" moniker (and the fact that Palm's web site sometimes refers to "Mobile Managers" in the plural) suggests that the LiveDrive was Palm's first tentative foray into this new category that Hawkins is talking about. But I don't expect the new device to bear much more resemblance to the LifeDrive than the first Treos did to the VisorPhone. For one thing, it's almost certainly going to be running a new multi-tasking operating system with an Opera 9 browser that can have several windows open at a time. I've also got reason to believe it's going to have some pretty attractive graphical capabilities we've not seen on any Palm device before. And given Sprint's peculiar announcement that they will be releasing "3 or 4 PDAs" on their 3G network (not handsets) in Q4, it could very well be the case that the new device has a cellular radio, at least in one incarnation.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
freakout @ 5/28/2007 7:49:02 PM # Q
When Palm talk about a "broadband connection in your pocket", I think they're almost certainly referring to 3G cellular networks rather than wi-fi. Wi-fi coverage still - and may never be - as pervasive as cellular, so it just makes sense for any future "internet anywhere" device to include a cell radio. I'd be more surpised if this device didn't incorporate cellular connectivity of some kind.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 8:24:07 PM # Q
Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

I've no problem with the statement of "facts". I love to see the supporting evidence on either side of the argument. But the "conclusions" are a whole 'nother thing.

I make these snide little comments only to poke fun of the arrogance I see in the conclusions. These statements of conclusion put forth as fact simply are not (fact). They are guesses and opinions and possibly right or wrong.

I think this really might be a western male thing. You spout your "opinion" loudly as fact in the hope that if you sound certain enough you can convince enough people to agree with you. If enough people can be convinced to agree with you, then you are "right". If somehow the "fact" you came up with turns out to be wrong, then you either act like you never said it or find some strange method for spinning it so that you were still right all along. (American politics is a perfect example of how this system "works".)

Alternately one might say, "I think that evidence A, B, and C points to the possibility that D is going to happen. It will be interesting to see if that turns out to be true."

Then again, forget that! That's no fun at all. Let's just keep spouting our opinion as fact and acting like we were never wrong when we often are.


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Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:27:17 PM # Q
> ...Let's just keep spouting our opinion as fact...

Ahem...

Craigdts accurately stated the facts.

All else so far posted is wishful thinking and bizarro leaps of logic from "technology PR-fluff" to "lines of business".

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:29:15 PM # Q
> ...But I don't expect the new device to bear much more
> resemblance to the LifeDrive than the first Treos did
> to the VisorPhone...

As noted before, I don't expect a new device, but an entire system.

[and probably not much more than fluff, if that, at the conference this week]


RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/28/2007 8:37:40 PM # Q
I think the "whole new system" of the STB/NGT will be revealed (or at least outlined via some slides) as far as its inherent capabilities (LBS, Sprint as the WiMax partner of choice, tight integration with Mypalm.com etc) this week. The actual HARDWARE will remain unveiled until Septemberish as they are probably still fiddling/tweaking the specs.

Palm can occupy themselves with the 700p patch, the 750 WM6 update, Vista-compliant Palm Desktop, and a WM6-powered version of the 755p all prior to the "big" October release(s).


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/28/2007 8:56:08 PM # Q
Yeah, that's pretty much the scenario I expect, too, but I'm not sure if they "do slides" at this particular conference or not (I haven't the faintest - did not watch previous year's videos, for example, but got some sort of "feeling" that they do not for some reason!].

Sometime back - somewhere - I posited that the latest (giggle) incarnation of The Next Great Thang will be a dumb phone connected to servers somewhere - a LifeDriveII with the same connectivity is fine by me as well.

[for some reason Steve Jobs mentioned patenting much of what the iPhone does in his initial presentation of it - I thought that was...curious. It is to be remembered that we already know at least SOME of the functionality of the iPhone is NOT resident on the iPhone...I wonder if Jobs was aiming those "we got da patents, chump!" comments at anyone we're interested in...]

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
freakout @ 5/28/2007 9:26:07 PM # Q
If Hawkins doesn't show at least some details on the new hardware then I would be very surprised. It's been a long time between drinks for new handhelds, and if they keep their PDA fans waiting any longer then they may give up for good... from the sounds of a lot of postings around the net some already have.
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/28/2007 9:28:02 PM # Q
Isn't the latest buzz that iPhone owners are going to be REQUIREd to have an unlimited data account attached to their iPhones?

No, I expect the TNG to definitely be either WiMax'd or EVDO'd in regards to its connectivity. Either way, look for Palm to be cozying up to Sprint about as closely as Apple did to Cingular/AT&T.

P.S.

SV: What is your daily phone/PDA/device? Just curious.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
cervezas @ 5/28/2007 11:48:12 PM # Q
During Analysts Day Colligan denied that Palm was doing anything with WiMax right now, remember? As I recall, that was when he made the quip about Palm being "leading edge, not bleeding edge." I think we are talking about WiFi and maybe 3G (data only) in v1.0.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/28/2007 11:58:54 PM # Q
Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy") that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at this new product.

This is a "conclusion". It might be true; it might not be true.

The quoted material above that statement of conclusion is "fact", i.e. it has been established that it was stated by Jeff Hawkins.

If I am wrong about that, please show me the links that prove so. I doubt that you can at this point. If you do, I will readily state that I was wrong. But please don't think that pointing me to a string of other people's "conclusions" will suffice to establish it as "fact".


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Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
PenguinPowered @ 5/29/2007 12:11:11 AM # Q
The secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm to be bought by Google."



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 5/29/2007 12:14:24 AM # Q
The secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm to be bought by Google."

Now that's a fact!


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 6:32:45 AM # Q
> ...he secret 3rd business revealed: "positioning Palm
> to be bought by Google."

Google is purportedly already in cahoots with HTC.

Why do they need PALM again?

Why do they need PALM again even if they are NOT in cahoots with HTC?

WAY-OT: In fact, way-off-EVERY-topic: RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/29/2007 7:00:35 AM # Q
> ...SV: What is your daily phone/PDA/device? Just curious.

My profile may or may not reveal to you the first and last PALM PDA I owned (still own). I bought two of them at the time for some outrageous price like approaching $400 each - one for spousie, one for me. Essentially added in a bunch of contacts, played with some flight planning software, etc.

But mostly just kept it in my briefcase using up batteries.

Eventually saw the light, took it out of my case, removed the batteries, put it and everything I had for it in a Ziploc bag, and put it down in a large cardboard box with other old devices (like a 300BPS modem) on a shelf in the basement where it sits to this day.

Turns out I didn't need it at all - work and play I'm always near a desktop computer (minimally). When I'm neither at work nor play (?) I never have a need for such a device (*).

It was geek-thrill overkill buy that I had no need for since it was a few steps DOWN from what I already had amply available everywhere I wanted to use such functionality.

==========

(*) GPS, for example, is way cool in a plane - FULL of functionality that can be absolutely necessary (even life saving!) when you're "up there". But in a car it's just totally useless to someone like me - I know where I am with all local driving, I fully plan "long distance" trips, I don't go on off-road excursions. I don't have a need to "find the best night spot" WHILE I'm driving. Watching a cool GPS device show me where I already know I am might be...well...cool but it certainly isn't very useful.

I don't even remember the last time I used a calculator away from work or house. If ever.

==========

Of course, now I have a nice Sony-Ericsson 520A (I think that's what it is). It has all the "contacts" I could possibly need "on the go". It has a calculator and calendar and appointment thingee; don't know nor care how to bring them up but it has them! It's also sufficiently smart that it can run Java programs if I choose. And it can, though I don't use it, surf the 'Net with couple clickety-clicks so Google Maps =is= available should I really really need to find a gas station or hospital or something while "on the very poorly marked for these days road".

==========

But that's all entirely unimportant - I couldn't care less (nor do I know) what YOU use on a daily basis; it is irrelevant as long as what you POST makes sense or is well (or even somewhat) supported with links to external information sources.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
scstraus2 @ 5/29/2007 7:35:54 AM # Q
I've got to immortalize my prediction so here goes:

I think it's one of 2 things.

1) A book sized tablet with an e-paper display for displaying web, documents, magazines, photos, internet, etc. with a tremendous battery life and good memory (8gb at least), and good content management from online store, and possibly storing all your stuff up there.

or

2) A very large storage device (40gb at least) that is fully pocketable and essentially all your stuff in a PDA format. Possibly instead of a large hard drive they will try to make you sync all of your stuff online and access it over the web, but my first instinct is that it will be a hard drive. This device will work well between home and office and make sure that all of your data is with you wherever you are, even if you're on your computer. That's including all your photos, mp3's, documents, really your whole life. Essentially the real life drive.

Well, I got my predictions in under the wire, can't wait to see what happens!

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
PilotMad @ 5/29/2007 10:19:53 AM # Q
Why can't someone just bring out an updated version of a HP Jornada 690/700 series type handheld (Or PSION) machine.

The clamshell/keyboard and formfactor is perfect for my needs. But it requires tft screen/memory/sd card/wifi/bluetooth/20 gig HD updates for an all-new 2007 version.

The tablet like UMPC format is silly.

I have a toshiba libretto U100 which would almost be perfect except for the poor keyboard and the overwieldly/bloated XP os, and it needs to be slimmer.

I only need a light palm os/linux palm os on a small device with a fast start up. Something near pocketable.

The death of the Handheld PC format due to Palm and Windows mobile was a mistake in my mind. It needs to be revived.

"You think that's air you're breathing now?" - Matrix.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
hkklife @ 5/29/2007 11:06:50 AM # Q
I still think the most logical move would be for someone (in this case a hardware company--either a network equipment vendor or a flash memory company) to buy Palm to gain a foothold in the wireless market. I cannot help but shake the feeling that someone like Sandisk/Cisco/Dlink would be well-served to buy Palm to compete with the iPhone juggernaut. Look what a fine job Sandisk has done with their Sansa line--in shouting distance to the iPods in styling and size, much better featureset, and of course better bang for the buck. If nothing else, a company like that would at least cram 8gb+ of flash into the Treos AND make sure they adhere to the latest standards (USB2, SDHC etc).

This is, of course, assuming Palm and/or their theoretical suitor still wants to be a hardware company and not merely a services provider.

P.S. On that note, I think Palm is rapidly approaching the breaking point with the 755p. I've never seen a mobile device preloaded with so many icons and shortcuts and crippled trialware apps. It looks like Palm has realized they are behind the curve hardware and OS-wise so they are going to try to emulated a modern bloatware-laden PC! I wonder if this is a Sprint thing, a Palm thing, or....both? And IF Verizon offers the 755p WILL they stuff it with so much junk? I somehow doubt it. Verizon didn't even put VersaMail in ROM on the 700p!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 8:47:54 AM # Q
== "...Note the "3 Lines," one in its infancy - it was
== the lifedrive. This 3rd line was such a flop ("infancy")
== that palm has distanced itself from its once 3rd line
== product. Palm appears to have allowed this misconception
== to continue on. The lifedrive was their first attempt at
== this new product..."

You hit it right on the head, craigdts.

And now, as another poster noted, they changed "Mobile Manager" to "Mobile Companion" as their link on their website, further reinforcing the thought.

So, okay, if at first you don't succeed...

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 6/1/2007 9:38:35 PM # Q
Exerpt from http://tinyurl.com/2tjrd8

Q: Is this the "third baby" that you have talked about working on?
Hawkins: It is. I actually think it's going to be the biggest one of all.

Ok, can you finally just shut up about what the facts are? Or are you now going to go into "whirling dervish" mode to show us all how the Foleo is the LifeDrive II?

(We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 8:13:38 AM # Q
Foleo is LifeDrive II - live with it.

RE: LifeDrive II - + cell
twrock @ 6/2/2007 11:25:56 AM # Q
Here's another story for the Hawkins mythology. We've all heard about the "wood block" Hawkins used when he designed the original Pilot; carrying it around and 'using' it to get a feel for how a digital organizer should be. There was a very similar story for the Foleo. Five years ago (!), Hawkins and Peter Skillman got together and grabbed a PC keyboard and set it on top of a photocopier. The took that piece of paper, cut it down to the size they wanted, and then taped it to a piece of foam board, then using some tape to make a hinge to attach the 'screen.'

So let's see, Hawkins and Skillman created a mock up of the Foleo five years ago that included a full size keyboard and hinged screen. Hawkins states clearly that this Foleo is the "third baby", the "third leg", the product that is in its "infancy". The Foleo bears about as much resemblance to the LifeDrive as an elephant does to a duck. The LifeDrive does bear a striking resemblance to the rest of the PDA line in size, shape and features. And after all of that, you somehow want us to suspend any sense of reality and to somehow conclude that the Foleo is the LifeDrive II?

What a nut!




Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

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Another Turd?

razorpit @ 5/25/2007 9:21:19 PM # Q
The last time there was a big hype like this for a mystery product it turned out to be the steamy mess we all know as the Segway. I'm not holding my breath for anything special this time around.

RE: Another Turd?
rmhurdman @ 5/25/2007 11:06:16 PM # Q
We don't know exactly what it will be, but we can be pretty certain of one thing: Palm will find a way to screw it up and disappoint us yet again. If they hadn't tried to raise our hopes so high, we would maybe be pleasantly surprised. But with all the hype, it's almost impossible to live up to all the expectations that have been circulated.

It's hard to understand how "bigger than a PDA, smaller than a UMPC" qualifies as something top secret and brand new. I bet the people at Palm are cursing the iPhone which, I bet, stole their thunder. That really seems like something innovative and it's going to make anything Palm comes up with look like something a child made. Poorly.

That's my prediction and I'll stand by it.

RE: Another Turd?
PacManFoo @ 5/25/2007 11:40:03 PM # Q
They may as well start on the ROM replacement and Patches for it as well.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: Another Turd?
LiveFaith @ 5/26/2007 12:20:05 AM # Q
**They may as well start on the ROM replacement and Patches for it as well.**
Why stop there when a class action lawsuit filing could also be in the works?!? That's hillarious Pacman!

Actually, all this is the the release of the much belabored Treo 800g.

Pat Horne

RE: Another Turd?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:54:15 AM # Q
> ...I bet the people at Palm are cursing the iPhone which,
> I bet, stole their thunder...

Nah - THAT didn't steal their thunder, the UMPC lines did. You have to remember UMPC is a NEW thing that overshadowed the LifeDrive like there was no tomorrow.

RE: Another Turd?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 8:31:49 AM # Q
Speaking of UMPCs - some thoughts from others from awhile back re The Next Great Thang:

-- http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/32084

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What I would like to see

jonecool @ 5/26/2007 12:57:38 AM # Q
My personal thought is that it will be a PDA type of device that is "adaptive" and runs on top of a customized Linux release. This device+OS will operate as a PDA+Phone while away from the convenience of a large display and full-size keyboard. However, once you are in your office, you plug the device into the charger (or Dock) and it becomes a full desktop-like computing experience utilizing existing Displays and external hardware (perhaps even a USB adapter to take advantage of your current Laptop or Desktop computing environment). All data will be stored locally to the unit so you have everything with you wherever you go but in a Treo-sized form factor (40GB+ estimated). At the office, you have a more desktop-like experience using this portable appliance. One other key design feature is that in either mode, PDA or Desktop, you will have the ability to "speak to" your personal digital assistant to locate information on the device.

The above is pure speculation and only what I personally would like to see developed. However, if I'm anywhere near the mark I'll let this e-mail be proof of my guess :-)

RE: What I would like to see
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2007 7:56:12 AM # Q
> ...All data will be stored locally to the unit...

I think PALM will try to take "the network IS the computer" concept a little further than that.

Bill Coleman was brought on board as a director for SOME reason!


Re: What I would like to see
dirkmeissner @ 5/28/2007 1:07:20 PM # Q
My personal thought about a new device is an integrated device.

- Music playback (incl. support for Online Music Store)
- Video playback (screen size 640x480 or 1024x768 would be nice)
- No hard disk, 4 to 8 GB of Memory instead
- build in GPS incl. TomTom
- Encyclopedia, like Wikipedia offline
- Dictonaries
- Backup of PIM, EMail, etc. (like the Danger Hiptop)
- Instant Messenger
- Bundled with earphones, bluetooth keyboard, external loudspeakers, etc.
- Build in Camera (3 megapixel or more)
- I would not need a phone, but it won't sell without it.

III-->V-->m500-->T|E-->T|T5-->LifeDrive

Reply to this comment

when will this device be available for purchase?

yOyOYoo @ 5/26/2007 2:22:50 AM # Q
so should I hold off on buying a Treo 755p tommorrow??!?

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