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Comments on: Palm Foleo Hands On Gallery

Foleo Hands OnI got some hands on time with the Palm Foleo yesterday at the D Conference and have put together this detailed photo gallery. I also got some more details about the Foleo and was able to sit down with Jeff Hawkins for a brief conversation between sessions at the WSJ D Conference.

Read on for the full article and photo gallery.

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Terminal is one of the apps?

t3h @ 5/31/2007 8:45:32 PM # Q
Wonder what Linux stuff can be installed to it...

Palm TX + 1GB SD + Motorola v3x = awesomeness
RE: Terminal is one of the apps?
a_nonamiss @ 5/31/2007 9:13:49 PM # Q
Although there probably aren't too many binaries out there for this yet, I would guess you could probably compile most Linux apps for it once the specific hardware specs are known.

Arthur

Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3 > Samsung SCH-i730 > Palm 700p

RE: Terminal is one of the apps?
digichimp @ 6/1/2007 1:37:12 AM # Q
I'm looking forward to running bash, vim, sed, perl :-)

RE: Terminal is one of the apps?
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 7:49:33 AM # Q
Oh, think you can get access below the GUI, do you? Go read up on the contortions people had to go through to get to the innards of Linux on the Nokia Anti-Net Tabs! And then only the real whizzards who live Linux can do it. Everyday people like me are totally shut out.

RE: Terminal is one of the apps?
hkklife @ 6/1/2007 7:24:09 PM # Q
"Terminal" should be the status of this thing (as in arrivg to the market DOA) instead of one of the bundled Linux apps.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

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Sorry Hawkins

drbuzz0 @ 5/31/2007 9:28:05 PM # Q
Wow. He does seem like he actually might like it. I feel bad for whoever is going to have to break it to him that it sucks a real lot.

You can't fit too many apps in 128mb of space, and certainly not much and expect anything in the way or storage space for media left.

Wow...um... wow... this isn't a joke is it?

RE: Sorry Hawkins
TreoAnon @ 5/31/2007 10:06:06 PM # Q
Ultimately it depends on the browser, because when you are on-line you have access to any application you can run in your browser, including e-mail and calendar. And you don't need to store any of this on your local device.

So I will have to wait until I get my hands on a Foleo to know, but it does appear to have good potential for a high-volume device.

RE: Sorry Hawkins
midtoad @ 5/31/2007 10:08:52 PM # Q
A limit of 128 MB would be bad for sure! But you will apparently be able to add Compact Flash cards and SD cards to provide more memory. A Microdrive will fit in that CF slot as well. How many GB do you need?


Stewart Midwinter
PDA user since 1992 (Sharp PC-3100)
Palm TX

RE: Sorry Hawkins
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 11:23:11 PM # Q
Who needs a Microdrive? They are hot, power-hungry, fragile, and sluggish. You can get a decent 16gb CF card for $160ish nowadays and 8gb SDHC cards are $70 or less now. I am sure by year's end we will start seeing the first 32gb CF cards and 16gb SDHC cards. Assuming the Foleo doesn't have some lame memory card cap of 4gb or some such FrankenGarnet-style nonsense, that's plenty of storage for most people. Considering this device's lame multimedia capabilities that oughta be plenty.

P.S.

Why is is that a lowly 126mhz Tungsten E can play video quite decently but a mighty $600 Foleo with a thoroughly modern OS cannot play even windowed video 4+ years later? Hawkins really shot himself in the foot with that CPU/video comment.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Sorry Hawkins
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 11:37:40 PM # Q
You know what would be a SPLENDID sight to behold?

If the carriers somehow saw the Foleo as infringing (or, perhaps, "leeching") off of their wireless networks' bandwidth and forced Palm to lock the Foleo out of the Treo unless users pay X dollars per month for "mobile companion" tethering?

The more I think about it, the Foleo is perhaps one of the worst ideas I have EVER seen in the tech world. Even if you take a Treo and cancel your service with your wireless provider, you are left with an extremely capable, video-playing PDA with a superb set of built-in PIM functions. And it'll get spectacular battery life due to the cellular radio being shut off. That's the beauty of a Treo..if all else fails it's STILL a solid PDA that's pocketable.

But a Foleo without a compatible smartphone to pair it with is reduced to a $600 e-mail and hobbled web browsing device that's only functional near wi-fi hotspots. How, pray tell, is that any better than a TX and a wireless keyboard, screen size aside? You CAN drop a dumbphone, a TX, and a folding IR or BT keyboard into a pair of cargo pants. You CANNOT stuff a Foleo into any pants pocket that I know of.

If the Foleo's host phone has a dead battery, is an incompatible model (trust me, with Palm's history of non-updates to their Phone Link software, 99.9% of the phones on the market will be incompatible) or is a CDMA handset in the rest of the world outside of N. America and Korea, it's still reduced to a paperweight.

No, folks, this isn't Palm jumping the shark. This is Palm attempting to feebly dog paddle around the shark but getting ripped to pieces in the process.

The iPhone will be out (in limited quantities, yes but still...) in ~two weeks' time. Will the 700p ROM update even be out in two weeks' time? I'm sorry, but this month marks my 11th year with the Palm OS. I haven't ever had such a feeling of despair about both the Palm OS and Palm Inc. as I did moments after seeing the Foleo's specs confirmed.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Sorry Hawkins
digichimp @ 6/1/2007 2:07:37 AM # Q
>How, pray tell, is that any better than a TX and a wireless keyboard, screen size aside?

I'm a proud owner of a Palm TX and Think outside keyboard and a Macbook

The Foleo sounds promising for cost, weight, and open platform

It has a terminal and doesn't run Windows. What more can you want? :-)
Oh wait it doesn't do mp3s, WMA, MOV? --> don't buy it.
It runs Opera vs Blazer.
It doesn't weigh 6 pounds of $599 bottom feeder laptops --> I know people enjoy lugging around their Costco bricks to show how cool being thrifty is.
It doesn't cost a grand like most UMPCs. --> Ah the joys of throwing away $1-2G on something that will be obsolete in 18 months.

It has common connectivity and expansion options: SD, CF, USB i/o, WiFi
It is not a two-fer and it doesn't need a carrier like my TX or N800.

In a true sense, the Foleo is an open book ready to be written.

Geez, I can't believe the "supportive" comments here are PalmInfoCenter.
I guess it is easier to put something down than see the potential this new category can become.
Palm doesn't owe users anything.
Sure a lot of the naysayers wished Garnet a quick death and Palm taken over so we can all feed on WinMob bloat and all that MS dreck, but I for one, am glad to see this new product offering.

Go Palm Go!

RE: Sorry Hawkins
SeldomVisitor @ 6/1/2007 7:15:07 AM # Q
> ...If the carriers somehow saw the Foleo as infringing (or,
> perhaps, "leeching") off of their wireless networks' bandwidth
> and forced Palm to lock the Foleo out of the Treo unless users
> pay X dollars per month for "mobile companion" tethering?...

Though it may be due to power requirements, the Foleo already has a castrated 801B Wi-Fi interface, slowing down THAT connection method and making carrier-based connectivity more desireable.

Thus more marketable to carriers.

RE: Sorry Hawkins
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 7:51:01 AM # Q
>>>Ultimately it depends on the browser, because when you are on-line you have access to any application you can run in your browser, including e-mail and calendar. And you don't need to store any of this on your local device.

Oh, foolish mortal. Think Opera is that stable and reliable, do you? What a shock you have coming, baby!

RE: Sorry Hawkins
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 4:09:49 PM # Q
>>>Palm doesn't owe users anything.

And they display that attitude every fekkin day.

RE: Sorry Hawkins
jeffhoward001 @ 6/1/2007 5:19:59 PM # Q
I think some of you are missing the big picture. Palm is exploring a new product line that is aimed at "sharing" your technological work-load between two devices. Even though the UMPC is not a new concept, one that costs $500 and seamlessly integrates with a smartphone is a new concept.

Granted, Palm did a poor job explaining the "extendibility" of the new platform, but once you get past the fact that this is NOT suppose to be a revision of the LifeDrive or TX, you can start expanding your mind into what it's actually designed to do.

Even though it's not a laptop replacement, I think Hawkin's in banking on the fact that over time, caring around a complicated and expensive device like a laptop may become less and less of a necessity for many business users. As business applications are now presented in web form, or through framework-based application models like Java and .NET, the need for big, bad-ass, laptops will start to decrease.

To really understand Hawkin's vision, don't think of this device as a replacement for your old device, but more the stepping stone into a new paradigm or mobile computing. You'll always have your smartphone with you containing the bulk of your mission-critical PIM content which Palm will remain to innovate on, and expand. But now they have a platform to extend the feature set into multimedia boosts like a fully-featured music player or DVD-like video. If you believe that this device will not be able to play mp3's or decent quality video, you're being unrealistic. There has been very little said about these capabilities thus far, and people are taking the small amount of given information and rendering it into half-truths.

In a nutshell, Hawkin's is attempting to do what he does best... Predict the future of mobile computing, and for the time being I'm going to at least extend the courtesy of being patient and seeing what's to come in the near future.

Remember that Palm is still innovating on their existing lines, and I'm sure we'll see some interesting changes in those areas as well. I think people will be pleasently surprised if they are patient enough to see this product to it's maturity.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo-mini??(like and LD-II??)

RE: Sorry Hawkins
hkklife @ 6/1/2007 7:21:39 PM # Q
"their existing lineS"?

No, Hawkins admitted directly to Ryan that the PDA market is "mature" and thus warranty zero additional investment, expenditure, or updating of any kind.

Sounds like a defeatist strategy if I've ever heard one. Palm gave up on PDAs long, long before they ever got far enough along to even come close to perfecting them.

So for all intends and purposes, Palm's lineup remains the same: a handful of identical-looking Treos and one oddball new concept device that may end up stillborn.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Sorry Hawkins
drbuzz0 @ 6/1/2007 11:59:16 PM # Q
>>>Palm doesn't owe users anything.

Dude.. they're a company that is supposedly trying to make money. And they need to sell stuff to do this. "Don't owe users anything"? I guess not, if they don't mind loosing those users.

"Screw the customer! Screw the consumer! Lets show them how free we are from their wants. We'll make whatever the hell we want and if they don't like it.... oh... then we go under..."

RE: Sorry Hawkins
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:35:24 AM # Q
>>>If you believe that this device will not be able to play mp3's or decent quality video, you're being unrealistic. There has been very little said about these capabilities thus far, and people are taking the small amount of given information and rendering it into half-truths.

Not true. It was the most embarrassing moment of Hawkins speaking to Mossberg when he admitted that he wished it had a more powerful CPU in order to do video.

RE: Sorry Hawkins
ballistic @ 6/3/2007 11:37:52 AM # Q
http://unwiredben.livejournal.com/248731.html?thread=311451#t311451

From Ben Combee:

Well, I can't promise anything, but we're certainly going to try to get something working soon after release. I think the real obstacle is finding versions of the Flash video codecs that are optimized for our CPU.

Brian

RE: Sorry Hawkins
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:56:06 AM # Q
>>>I think the real obstacle is finding versions of the Flash video codecs that are optimized for our CPU.

Translation: Like Nokia 770 owners, forget Flash video with this hardware. Get Flopeo II. Later for you early adopters (ie, suckers!).

RE: Sorry Hawkins
SeldomVisitor @ 6/3/2007 6:18:59 PM # Q
> ...Get Flopeo II...

I believe you meant to type "Flopeo III"...

RE: Sorry Hawkins
Timothy Rapson @ 6/3/2007 10:27:33 PM # Q
HKLIFE said , ". Palm gave up on PDAs long, long before they ever got far enough along to even come close to perfecting them."


Ah, so very true. Sony had a couple of perfect models, the N series and the TH55. THey had it all. Palm never ever released a simple tablet with all the features available like these Sony's.

You see them continue this with this Foleo. No Flash video. Of course. You don't think they are going to start delivering a complete product now when delivering a crippled one has allowed them to milk their customers for another 10 years have they have for their entire history. How sad.

RE: Sorry Hawkins
zullnero @ 6/4/2007 3:50:48 PM # Q
Why gripe about how Palm gave up on the PDA...much like the rest of the market?

Where's the Axim, these days?

It's all about phones now. The Tungsten TX, Lifedrive, et. al. was targeted at the sorts of regular posters here in the PIC. Not at ordinary users, they were devices that were built to make you guys happy. And that's why they didn't sell worth a crap, because there just aren't as many of you guys as there are regular folks.

There are a LOT of people out there that don't own laptops. Surprised? Then this whole product line isn't targeted at you. Sorry. You can stick by your TX and use it until the screen wears out. There will probably be a Treo out by then that will live up to your expectations.

Palm III->Palm Vx->Palm m505->Palm m515->Tungsten T->Tapwave Zodiac II->Treo 700p

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Don't Under Estimate It

kevinbgood @ 5/31/2007 11:14:17 PM # Q
I know that the first impression wasn't what the majority of the Western world wanted, but there IS more here than meets the eye.

One. From a consumers viewpoint, there WILL be a limited perspective of what Foleo can do for them. They of courser were expecting a robust unique Smartphone. In time.

Two. From the developers viewpoint, YAHOO, something extraordinary to work on. Particularly since Linux will be involved, it provides some seriously flexible programming options that limit the programmer only to his imagination.

Three. Change is good for everyone. Jeff Hawkins has a fresh idea that is versatile and offers some serious potential for what Smartphones WILL become in the future and the way we handle data, communications and connectivity.

To sum this all up, the Foleo is not a "Flopeo", but more likely it is "Progresso" for Road Warriors and techies alike.

Kevin

Addicted to Palm

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 11:21:20 PM # Q
Considering Palm's glacial release schedule, I am not expecting anything more from them other than a 320x320 CDMA Windows Mobile 6 device (the 755w) and possibly a GPS-enabled WM6 GSM Treo (aka the "Mercedes Treo" to replace the 750 this fall.

I think that is one of the primary reasons you seeing so many long faces amongst the PIC faithful. The 700p ROM update is still vapor, the 755p is available only on Sprint and is a pitiful sideways upgrade in nearly every way, the Foleo is most certainly NOT a Treo, Palm has ZERO plans for any future PDAs, and Garnet-based devices seem to have reached the end of the line.

So now everyone who is a Palm OS fan is basically left to either stock up on old TXs while they are still available, use whatever device they current have, suck it up and go to Sprint for a 755p or abandon ship for M$/RIM's greener pastures (and spend $ & time transitioning to another platform).

It's just NOT a good time to be a Palm OS fan. Hawkins and co. should be flogged for not taking a few minutes to address everyone they alienated during the Foleo presentation the other day--namely, PDA users, Palm OS Treo users, Vista users, and 700p users.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
VampireLestat @ 5/31/2007 11:53:33 PM # Q
Don't UNDERESTIMATE this?!?!
You got to be Fn kidding me!

100% of all Palm consumers own a home PC.
Laptops now outsell desktops.
Laptops with Vista sell for 550$ CDN (or under 500$ USD).
Many workplaces have PCs.

There is no need for a *censored* Foleo!
Would someone who has an ounce of honesty please tell me WHEN and WHERE any human being would prefer to bring an empty, non-standard, limited, video-incapable, restricted Foleo instead of a full fledge compact laptop that can be booted out of hibernation or suspend in a relatively short time? Let's get serious here people! This announcement is pure BS. It is a misguided, ill-conceived, totally out of touch product that is irresponsible towards Palm shareholders, Palm employees and the whole Palm company.

The irony here is that funny man aka PDA killer, Ed Colligan actually admitted in a recent interview with the Wall Street journal that people are looking to simplify their lives in a world suffering from technology overload. HOW THE HELL is he helping by wanting consumers to buy a device that will do NOTHING more than what a laptop can do?

Oh wait... the developers will build it! Its Linux-cool!!! Riiiiiiiiiight... Real life workers don't have time for this crap, we need standardization and complete solutions into as few hardware pieces as possible; and that means 1 laptop at home, 1 PDA-phone, and 1 PC at work.

If I want to write a novel or analyze a 1500 row Excel sheet, I will put the fricken file on the SD card, and work on it at home or at work. A handheld/phone is meant to do quick reads of documents, minors touch ups, enter pim, mp3s, movies, games, and stuff like that. NO ONE HERE truly does extended Office work on a PDA. If they say they do, most are liars. Come on guys, lets get real here. A Treo, A TX whatever, is meant for when you are out in the field/away from your desk/away from your home PC, and you want to quickly jot down a note, check a contact, listen to a song/movie, read an ebook. All this editing docs and doing extensive laptop style work is a lie. And you all know it.

This is simply Palm's gross incompetence. They have no idea what the hell they are doing. They are taking wild guesses, they have no clue where they are going.

Whatever... I have pretty much had it with this Palm Inc *censored* of a company.
I am continuing to use my Palm TX ---- UNDER PROTEST!



RE: Don't Under Estimate It
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 11:57:56 PM # Q
Vampire;

Please, for your own health and sanity, go out and buy an extra TX. Or buy a gently used T5 from E-Bay. Stick it away for the inevitable time when your current TX finally wears out. I fear we won't even be able to buy a new Palm OS-based PDA after the end of 2007.

Ryan posed a direct question to Hawkins and he called the PDA a "mature" product that did not warrant further investment or R&D.

Let me post an excerpt from TreoCentral's Dieter Bohn's latest piece:


The subject turned to whether or not the standalone PDA was well and truly dead. PalmInfocenter's Ryan Kairer asked if the Foleo was the final nail in the coffin. Hawkins shrugged. He admitted that the PDA business was declining, it was mature. He said it was no secret that Palm isn't devoting a lot of resources to that business, but that they're still relatively happy with it, they don't really feel any need to kill it.


Interestingly, though, Hawkins returned to the theme of how the Foleo's development mirrored that of the Pilot. More specifically, Hawkins talked about how refreshing it is for Palm to have total control of a product end-to-end. With the Foleo, there are no carrier restraints, no carrier approvals, demands, delays, etc. That's what allowed Palm to announce when they felt like it, to set the price point wherever they wanted, to market however they liked, etc. With the Foleo, "Nobody tells us what to do."



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
VampireLestat @ 6/1/2007 12:01:54 AM # Q
And if a business traveler needs to work while traveling, then he brings a laptop. That is not going to change. So Palm can forget about that right now. They are wasting resources.

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
Dr Opinion @ 6/1/2007 12:02:59 AM # Q
Jeez, hk, quit the FUD will ya?

Every time you get a prediction wrong, you whine that this is "the end of the line for Palm". You do it ALL THE TIME. About everything that happens.

New software comes out: "end of the line for Palm".
New hardware comes out: "end of the line for Palm".
Treo is bestselling smartphone: "end of the line for Palm".

If I pick any random three posts of yours over the last four years, two of them will be predicting the "end of the line for Palm".

Palm is still here, my friend. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
hkklife @ 6/1/2007 12:16:16 AM # Q
Dr. O;

I'm not predicting the end of anything or anyone OTHER than Palm's line of legacy PDAs. If you have any information to the contrary, please share it with us.

Aside form that, yes, I think Palm will eventually be acquired. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I just think they are wandering farther and farther adrift from their "core" values and focus. It began with the 3com acquisition years ago, became further muddled with the Palm spin-off, then really get messy with the Handspring acquisition and the Palm/PalmSource split. Then the dual OS strategy, changing to a smartphone company from a PDA company etc etc. kept on sidetracking the company.

Now Palm finally seemed poised to drag the Palm OS into the future whilst piggybacking it on Linux and keeping a few WinMob units in the fold for good measure. I think the vast majority of the PIC faithful were hoping/expecting a flip Treo, a large-screened Treo, a PDA line refresh or a slightly larger tablet-style device.

But instead here goes Palm off on another misguided adventure with a product no one really wants. Anf the Foleo has no compelling reason to make people alter their lifestyle to accomodate one. The PDA line, despite Hawkins' claims, is nowhere near "mature". Palm just gave up on it before trying to properly integrate heavy-duty wireless and multimedia capabilities. The Treo line is horribly stagnant and needs at least three distinct formfactors. Is it going to remain the bestselling smartphone by rehashing the same small square screens and weak multimedia capabilities?

If you are so concerned with the future of the Palm platform, I suggest contributing a few reviews (hardware or software) or an editorial to PIC. More content on PIC drives more traffic to the site and thus builds awareness of Palm's fine line of products. That means more $ in Palm's coffers and the continued survival of the company. I'm doing my fair share to help the Palm-conomy...but are you?

So what submissions can we expect first from the good Doctor? ;-)

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
rbrazioli @ 6/1/2007 3:15:46 AM # Q
Well, it sounds interesting to me.

I have a Palm T5, with external keyboard and a MacBook 13", private, plus a regular Dell laptop at office.

There are cases in which the laptopos are heavy and sturdy and I don't need all the functionalities.

There are many cases, meetings, business travels, in which what I really need is internet access, web and e-mail, and some basic office functionalities. And such a device may actually fit that niche properly.

Talking corporate, most applications I use in the office are web based, so that wouldn't be an issue (if, and I may have some doubt about it), the device has the horsepower to run some java intensive application.

Sometimes I'm using the combination T5 + keyboard in the same way, but you have to set it up, not a big deal, but still takes up time, and the screen size is still limited.

I think that there professionals that may really benefit from this device, like journalists on the go.

It's promising, I'll give a try in the next future. Now, if it could work with the iPhone ...

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
heavyduty @ 6/1/2007 6:39:03 AM # Q
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 11:21:20 PM #

Considering Palm's glacial release schedule, I am not expecting anything more from them other than a 320x320 CDMA Windows Mobile 6 device (the 755w) and possibly a GPS-enabled WM6 GSM Treo (aka the "Mercedes Treo" to replace the 750 this fall.

They haven't even gotten around to adding Wifi to their phones, and you're predicting GPS??

Forget it. The best you can hope for is Wifi by the end of 2007; it's pathetic.....

Palm Vx (a classic) -> Palm 505 (*yawn*) -> Dell Axim (slooow...) -> Palm TE (great) -> Qtek 9090 (great idea, lousy platform) -> Nokia 6630 (a toy) -> iMate SP3i (not bad) -> Nokia 9300 (can't sync notes!!) -> Treo 650 (awesome) -> hw6915 (almost perfect)

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
mwrob @ 6/1/2007 9:14:03 AM # Q
The reason people don't do "real work" on their PDA is the screen and the keyboard. The foleo takes care of this, but needs some work. First, you need to be able to run all your Palm apps on it. Second, the price is a little high for what you get.

I would definitely be interested in it for bringing to meetings to type notes, short business trips, etc.

Mike

RE: Don't Under Estimate It
gbrinkman @ 6/1/2007 11:28:43 AM # Q
Talking corporate, most applications I use in the office are web based, so that wouldn't be an issue (if, and I may have some doubt about it), the device has the horsepower to run some java intensive application.

Most of the apps I use for the office require Internet Explorer to work along with a VPN connection. Is the Foleo really up to this? That will make a big difference if it is to catch on with the corporate crowd.


RE: Don't Under Estimate It
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 2:37:23 AM # Q
HKK & Vampy,

I feel your pain guys. I liked my "leaked version" a lot better. :-o I felt the same sick way after the G-mail RSS. (Somebody is now unemployed at Palm BTW) I too was hoping for the iPod killer etc etc.

But, the more I think about this, the more I am seeing the idea. Foleo is a beginning, not an end. A killer smartfone would just be "polishing the brass on Palm's sinking ship". Little Palm cannot do feature battles in the increasingly commoditized smartfone world. If they tried, they would just be committing slow suicide, corporate takeover style.

Foleo is rolling the dice. It truly IS like nothing else. C'mon, how many geeks like us had the slightest clue. Some said UMPC, but that's not even what this is. Nobody else is doing this concept.

Sure it's lightweight on features compared to lugtops, but just watch the demo again and ask yourself "do that act like a laptop"? Notta chance.

Palm is attempting to take the best of what their advantages ("zen") and spin it into the next step of computing. Mobility! Seriously, it's a beginning, not an end. The groundwork is being laid for much more in the future. Foleo represents a few popular and important technologies working (crosses fingers!) with absolute Palm "zen". Soooo much more can come later. And quickly with Linux under the hood.

The more time I give this, the more the whole concept is growing on me. In fact, in myt new biz venture with a lotta travel I am thinking of being an owner. I leave the lugtop behind 1/2 the time b/c of the hassles, and just take the Treo.

I aint saying this things gonna work. But, we've been moaning for innovation forever. Now that we get "new category" innovation, it chokes us. (Of course 3 years of glacial innovation and freakish product support can cause a doubt or 2) At least Palm is rolling the dice here and not just positioning for a buyer. This will either launch them into the future powerfully or put the swift smackdown on them. It also explains a lot about the past 3 years products.

I'm just saying, "give it a while to sink in". Hawkins in his short lifetime has not 1, but 2 of the top 50 tech product innovations of all time! Surely that's good enough to hold off full fire and brimstone until at least release/review day. Huh?!?

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

History Lesson - series 7

Analytical @ 5/31/2007 11:53:26 PM # Q
Didn't Psion realse this kind of thing years ago. Ok so it didnt have wifi but then who cares. People didnt care then and i'm pretty sure they arent going to care now.

I'm just waiting for them to change their name from palm to hand. because no way is that thing going to fit in your palm.

Palm seem to have a history of knowing what the consumer wants and then giving them something else.

Its such a pitty.

RE: History Lesson - series 7
ackmondual @ 6/1/2007 4:46:28 PM # Q
meh, they should change the name of Apple to Fruit since their laptops and desktops come in all sorts of fruity flavors.

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 _GOLDEN_ screws) + zodiac 2 + Tungsten X

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Processor

edoan @ 6/1/2007 12:06:45 AM # Q
I'm shocked no one has noticed this ... Ryan K. really scooped the crucial CPU details with that last screenshot ... the Linux kernel is 2.4.21-rmk1-pxa1-intc2 which is built for the Intel PXA27x XScale processors ... possibly the same 312 MHz PXA272 that the Treo 7xx family uses! There's plenty of software that's just a recompile away from being usable on this device. I think when Jeff Hawkins talks about video not working on the Foleo yet, it's because there really aren't any OPEN SOURCE codecs for Linux that Palm can legally distribute (yet). Sure, you can install VLC or Totem to watch videos, but what about WMV support? H.264? This thing doesn't play MP3s either because Palm likely hasn't licensed the codec ... NormSoft and Real likely licensed MP3 from Thompson and Fraunhofer, so they're on okay legal ground.

This is all so clear now ... Hawkins is a genius ... the Foleo is a mobile e-mail companion, just like the Pilot was just an organizer. With any of the thousands of PalmOS software installed, the Pilot could be anything you wanted it to be. The story is just beginning for the Foleo!

RE: Processor
Nycran @ 6/1/2007 12:25:47 AM # Q
I think you're right in a sense, there is potential. When the first pilot was released it was merely an organizer. It took time for an ecosystem of 3rd party developers to enhance and expand the product and make it truly a mobile computer. It also took Palm many product evolutions to build the TX. Palm are marketing this an a Treo companion, but I'm hoping that the future blurs this boundary so that it's a compact, elegant and simple mobile computer. Something that even my mother could use to email people (something that's just not going to happen with a fully fledged OS).

If developers jump on board, we may see:

* A good light-weight fully functional email client.
* A good media/music player.
* A good IM client.

We already have Opera for browsing.

The biggest problem is going to be the lack of an office framework, especially for word processing and spreadsheet manipulation, however I'll be curious to see how Docs 2 Go runs - maybe that's all we need?

As they say, time will tell.



RE: Processor
Ryan @ 6/1/2007 12:29:43 AM # Q
edoan, you are indeed correct, especially with that last paragraph.

Hawkins himself basically stated the same thing during our brief conversation. The Foleo is the Pilot 1000 of these "mobile companion" products he has in mind. I wish I had recorded it because there was only so much I could scrible down in my notes as the guy literally talks a mile a minute. Be sure to read Dieter's article too as he covers a lot that I didn't touch on here.

RE: Processor
VampireLestat @ 6/1/2007 12:30:00 AM # Q
edoan

Hawkins said YouTube videos are jerky and they are not happy with it.

RE: Processor
edoan @ 6/1/2007 1:19:50 AM # Q
I wouldn't doubt that videos are jerky on this thing ... it's got a friggin' 1024x600 display. The framebuffer on this probably isn't anything fancy, just something basic that can throw 12-bit 2D images onto the LCD or onto an external VGA display. And the PXA27x processors don't have a floating point unit built into hardware (IIRC), so it's all software-emulated. That would make video decoding something of a challenge. It works on Treo and Tungsten b/c those only have to push a quarter of the pixels for video. Let's suppose they come out with a Foleo 2 (Foleo III?) next year with either a higher-powered processor (PowerPC 4xx!) or discrete video such as an ATI/AMD GPU ... then we'd really be talking about a multimedia powerhouse.

Yeah, my mom really needs something simple that she can use for e-mail and CAN'T BREAK. There's a HUGE market out there for devices like this ... just look at all the interest in the OLPC despite the kiddie green n' white color scheme. Dell, Apple, and HP are all fighting over the same highly saturated base of consumers ... anyone who's wanted a full blown PC has already gotten one.

Here's what I think ... if someone can port OpenOffice.org or Abiword/Gnumeric to Linux-pxa, get Bluetooth/USB printing working via CUPS, and maybe get YouTube thru a highly optimized H.264 stream (see AppleTV announcement from 5/30/07), the Foleo is all the computer 90% of the population needs!

RE: Processor
feranick @ 6/1/2007 3:09:31 AM # Q
The Linux Kernel seems a bit outdated. Its current version is 2.4.21 (the latest 2.4.x branch is 2.4.34). Is there any reason why the 2.6 wasn't adopted?


RE: Processor
sungod @ 6/1/2007 6:56:09 AM # Q
“The biggest problem is going to be the lack of an office framework, especially for word processing and spreadsheet manipulation, however I'll be curious to see how Docs 2 Go runs - maybe that's all we need?”
edoan was right “if someone can port OpenOffice.org “ we will all be laughing.
“Sure, you can install VLC or Totem to watch videos, but what about WMV support? H.264? This thing doesn't play MP3s either because Palm likely hasn't licensed the codec “
Lets hope some smarty ports Automatix that should fix all our codec problems.

What I can't wait for is Palm to scale this new OS down for the T|X replacement.
Finally I'll be able to jump from Opera to Calendar and back again without loosing my place.
That pairing with a candy bar Dumb phone with a 3mp+ camera and HSDPA.
Thats the ultimate phone companion package for me.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

RE: Processor
Ryan @ 6/1/2007 12:57:36 PM # Q
Palm isn't saying what kernel or any other linux technologies are included until the product ships. That image could be a big clue, but we can't know for certain if that is what it actually reflects and will ship with.
RE: Processor
braj @ 6/1/2007 6:21:34 PM # Q
I wonder how well Google apps will run on this thing. Server-side applications through the web browser may really be the future for these devices.

I was thinking about the cost savings of using this vs a laptop that 'costs' the same. You don't need an IT department to admin these things, if you use Google apps or similar you don't need to license Office, you don't need a Sharepoint-type application to manage files and work in groups.

I think we need to look at Google apps to understand where computing is going and I have to say with that in mind this makes much more sense. Not as a smartphone accessory but as a new paradigm in what a 'personal computer' is. Let a powerful server somewhere do the heavy lifting, and free up the access to the information to the most minimal setup necessary.

If they could double the battery life that would go a long way towards making this more attractive. I personally wouldn't mind a bit more weight for much more run time. Maybe Gen2 will be ready for primetime, good luck to Palm though in surviving that long.



RE: Processor
T3_slider @ 6/1/2007 7:30:43 PM # Q
"if someone can port OpenOffice.org or Abiword/Gnumeric to Linux-pxa"

Well, the Sharp Zaurus community has done both (the later Zaurii have a pxa270 ARM processor running a 2.4.20 by default), so it's definitely possible. Abiword is quite usable on such a slow machine, whereas OpenOffice is not practical in any way shape or form (although it technically runs). Gnumeric is also perfectly usable.

The apps would probably need recompiling (except OpenOffice, which apparently was only compiled once on ARM architecture and reportedly took 3 days because it had to be compiled natively), but it could easily be done.

RE: Processor
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:40:07 AM # Q
>>>Abiword is quite usable on such a slow machine,

Look, have you used AbiWord for REAL WORK?!! I tried it on the Nokia 770. The first time it lost data, I could forgive. The second time it trashed a document was unforgivable.

It's just shocking to me that people can recommend X having NEVER ACTUALLY USED X.

Reply to this comment

Nokia N800

feranick @ 6/1/2007 12:13:37 AM # Q
The N800 feels so much more "portable" than the Foleo... If it only had PIMs applications and the ease of PalmOS.
RE: Nokia N800
Mullah @ 6/1/2007 7:02:29 AM # Q

feranic, of course it is.

But they are exactly NOT comparable devices. That's the whole idea. The Foleo offer proper ergonomics for doing real work. The N800 does not. Apart from that, the Foleo is very much along the N800 "Internet Tablet" line of thinking. Good browsing functionality, as provided on the Foleo, will become increasingly more important (converging on essential) in providing productivity functionality for the business (read MS Office) segment, in the years to come. This segment is the core laptop market today. And as the change toward Web 2.0<->SaS<->SOA progresses, the laptop's functional scope will be much too broad. Completely bloated. You will want a one trick pony with great ergonomics that is extremely efficient in accessing the Internet. With 12h+ battery life. And 801.11n/WIMAX/3G/all that stuff. And that's it. I think Palm just launched a first generation device matching this scope.

And now I'm at it. I don't, for example, understand people whining about the Foleo not being able to play MP3 or WMA? (not you feranic :) - I'm just warmed up that's why) Why would you want to do that? Seems silly since you are carrying a smartphone in your pocket all the time, that happens to have weak ergonomics but will indeed happily play your music. I'm sure Palm is aware that this argument does not hold equally for playing video, since this is where the ergonomics part come in. That is probably why the jaggy flash performance got special mention the other day. There is a hole in the boat there and I think they'll fix it.

The voice-centric device is the one you will always carry. So as storage capacity grows on this device type, it becomes your information "home-stone". Central storage. Holding your MP3's and other information heavy stuff (until, of course, you might equally well stream everything - but that is a little further out in time).

I am definitely with the positive crowd on this one. I think Palm is bying up real estate for future use here. I want a Foleo. Even though I just bought an OQO 02. The future device is the Foleo. Not the OQO.

-Mort

RE: Nokia N800
hotpaw03 @ 6/1/2007 3:53:46 PM # Q
The whole purpose of the Foleo is to give users a full size keyboard and business width display. The N800 gives you neither of the those.
RE: Nokia N800
feranick @ 6/1/2007 10:31:30 PM # Q
You guys are right. The two products have lots of hardware similarities, but are designed with different philosophies in mind.

However I cannot carry the Foleo with me the same way I can carry the N800. If I need something bigger (screen, keyboard...), I'll bring my laptop.

But then again: maybe the market for the Foleo is for people who wants an ultra light (in all senses) laptop.

Time will decide.

RE: Nokia N800
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 2:47:24 AM # Q
Guys. I'm tellin' you (so is Jeff) ... this aint no laptop! It's different. Just watch the demos on Palm.com and Youtube etc.

Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

About stocking up on TXs.

VampireLestat @ 6/1/2007 12:15:18 AM # Q
To hkklife,

"PDA a "mature" product that did not warrant further investment or R&D."

Is that so? That is such a dumb statement from Hawkins.

As for stockpiling TXs...

- I already own and a T5 and a TX and I need them daily for mainly alarms, PIM and MP3.

- I not sure Palm deserves anymore of my hard earned money. I am growing spiteful of that company and I am not mood these days to support them; especially knowing (as per Ed aka PDA-Killer Colligan) that Ed will funnel all the cash into Treo research.

- I have an HP rx1950 (discontinued unfortunately) and I am tempted to use it every so often in order to get away from Palm. I think the only serious long term viable company might be Microsoft. I have to seriously revisit the my options and make a decision. This Palm bs has been going on for years and this Foleo craziness is proof that they have no idea what they are doing. Its a product invented by people who have either grown too old and out of touch, or that have simply jumped the shark.

The only reason I am still using a TX is because it offers the best back speaker for listening to radio shows without earbuds and the PIM alarms and stability of the device are reliable. I love grafiti so I can blindly scribble notes even in the dark while Im still half asleep, etc.

RE: About stocking up on TXs.
VampireLestat @ 6/1/2007 12:25:34 AM # Q
I might end up swallowing my previous harsh Palm-fanboy words against the iPhone. Apple might once again show everyone how to make a fun useful product.

The iPhone design appears to properly merge the handheld and telephony worlds.

Foleo... *shaking head* My god... what have done. *shock*.



RE: About stocking up on TXs.
sungod @ 6/1/2007 7:49:07 AM # Q
We few PDA users have 2 possible saviors.

Palm will hopefully scale down this new OS and give us a T|X2.
Or
Someone will build an ALP (oh no the OS where not allowed to speak of) PDA.


How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

RE: About stocking up on TXs.
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 2:50:26 AM # Q
That's one thing I've been thinkin'. Even if the Foleo actually succeeds, will Palm have any intellectual horsepower left for Treos. More specifically, will my 680 ever get BT that works?!?

Pat Horne
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Can you attach USB peripherals to it?

yOyOYoo @ 6/1/2007 12:40:12 AM # Q
I would like to use it with a mouse and not that little IBM-like joystick nubs, I hate those things!

RE: Can you attach USB peripherals to it?
Ryan @ 6/1/2007 12:56:50 AM # Q
Yes, mice and usb flash drives will be supported.
RE: Can you attach USB peripherals to it?
hkklife @ 6/1/2007 1:02:12 AM # Q
A shame there are so few UMS-compliant MP3 players on the market these days! That'd make for an ideal companion for one of these things.

Ryan, did anyone from Palm mention any sort of integrated "backup to Foleo" feature where Palm devices' RAM could be mirrored/dumped (like a poor man's backup Hotsync) onto the Foleo? Sort of like RAID 1 but for Palm OS devices?

It's a shame Lenovo has IBM's hardware division now and is no longer partnered with Palm. IBM's crack Thinkpad hardware team & Palm's UI guys could have made a real go of a WorkPad for the new millennium!


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Can you attach USB peripherals to it?
twrock @ 6/2/2007 12:03:43 AM # Q
...that little IBM-like joystick nubs, I hate those things!

Yeah, I hear that a lot. There is a definite learning curve in using one. But then there are people like me who spent a little more to buy a Latitude instead of an Inspiron just so I could get the trackpoint. I really like to be able to use my keyboard and "mouse" without ever having to move my hands away from the home keys. I have even disabled the touchpad because I find it frustrating to use and annoying when it reacts to inadvertent touches. To each his own, but I really prefer the trackpoint.



Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

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Let's remember back to the iPod

jeff79m @ 6/1/2007 12:47:24 AM # Q
Ok I remember back when the iPod first was announced the Mac faithful were very upset as the rumor sights at the time were saying that it was a pda. Everybody for the first few days was asking what they would do with a 5g hard drive with music it seemed at the time kind of stupid. Now I cannot imagine how I got by without one. Now I don't think that the Foleo is going to have the success of the iPod but I have grown to like the idea of the Foleo.
This is the first Web 2.0 device that could actually be useful. If the device is quick then I will be buying one right away. Tell me were I can buy a laptop at the Foleo's size with five hours of battery life and instant on capabilities. My laptop stopped sleeping a few days ago because I have a driver that needs to be changed but I haven't spent the time to figure out which one yet. So I have to shutdown every time, I wouldn't have this problem with the Foleo. All the apps that will be developed for this will have the Foleo's form factor in mind, unlike the apps that end up on a UMPC that are unusable at that size. Personally after thinking about what my needs are this device will fit it perfectly.

RE: Let's remember back to the iPod
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 2:54:19 AM # Q
Jeff, just watch the demos. Watch how that .PDF comes up! Chops licking.

Pat Horne
RE: Let's remember back to the iPod
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 12:24:40 PM # Q
>>>Jeff, just watch the demos. Watch how that .PDF comes up! Chops licking.

Look, are you delusional or what? PDFs don't even open that fast on my 1GHz+ desktop! You are seeing SIMULATED SCREENS, NOT ACTUAL PROCESSING BEING DONE!

Geez!

RE: Let's remember back to the iPod
hotpaw4 @ 6/3/2007 2:15:57 PM # Q
PDF's and documents don't open quickly on 1+GHz PC's because their apps are usually so bloated that they take forever to page themselves and their libraries into memory. How fast are those Treo-sized PDF viewers by comparison?
Reply to this comment

Audrey II

sbono13 @ 6/1/2007 2:11:51 AM # Q
Glad they included wifi this time...

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GUI ?

FredLL @ 6/1/2007 3:07:12 AM # Q
OK It runs a linux Kernel but what about GUI ?
Is it at least based on GTK ?
If so new (recompiled) software will rapidly flow ...
Why didn't they use a available GUI (like Maemo for example ...) ?

Fred

RE: GUI ?
vorlon @ 6/1/2007 4:55:04 AM # Q
Why didn't they use a available GUI (like Maemo for example ...)?

Because it sucks.

http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

RE: GUI ?
sungod @ 6/1/2007 7:25:28 AM # Q
Do we have a name for this new OS and GUI?
Is it PalmOS II? PLinux? FoleoOS?

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: GUI ?
fanoush @ 6/1/2007 10:19:27 AM # Q
Why didn't they use a available GUI (like Maemo for example ...)?
Because this Palm project is 5 years old? Maemo is 2005 thing and scaling up to anything above 800x480 is only possible now (2007) and ready to be used by Intel in MID platform. I wonder it the used at least GTK, maybe not since 5 years ago it wasn't so hot. Let's wait for SDK then we'll see if other stuff is similarly outdated like the kernel.

RE: GUI ?
rsc1000 @ 6/1/2007 10:32:44 PM # Q
I am soooo glad they didn't go with one of the existing Linux GUIs. If this thing is to stand a chance it has to do so by being truly easy. i like the idea of a super simple interface and the launcher. As some have pointed out else-where: this makes an ideal laptop / desktop replacement for those who don't want / don't understand / or just f$#@ing hate messing around with a stupid windows box. Its for people who just want to get to email, the web, or office docs (and for many people - thats all they want). But, it does need multimedia to seal the deal.

If Palm has a clue they will work their butts off to get multimedia in this thing. All this talk about not being powerful enough for video, but its got a PXA processor in there. As somebody said above: if the T|E can do video with 126mhz, then why not this? Answer: of course it can! Palm seems to be the last people to ask about what their devices are capable of doing, but they owe it to themselvse to get some talent onboard to get some multimedia software in this thing - out of the box. Surely it can at least do MP3 playback.

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Memory Options

PilotMad @ 6/1/2007 4:39:11 AM # Q
This seems critical to me. How much? Is it expandable? 128MB (??) would be next to useless. It needs at least 512MB on a device like this. Doubt it would be that much in terms of extra expense.

I'm not thinking about current capabilities, but enough to give developers and users a chance on the new platform.


RE: Memory Options
vorlon @ 6/1/2007 4:58:48 AM # Q
This seems critical to me. How much? Is it expandable? 128MB (??) would be next to useless. It needs at least 512MB on a device like this. Doubt it would be that much in terms of extra expense.

128 Mt available for user. And internal CF. And external SD. And support for USB sticks.

More RAM = less battery life.

RE: Memory Options
PilotMad @ 6/1/2007 5:27:20 AM # Q
I see your point about more battery power, but I just don't know how much of an issue this would be.

Chip technology is changes all the time, the extra MBs might not be an issue at all nowadays. Even 256 MB would be better.

Another consideration is that battery designers are also increasing their capacities.

I guess the main point is, does the foleo allow for upgrading memory, swapping (or adding) extra batteries etc. The answer is probably not in this first incarnation.

However, I would remind Jeff that the original Palm had some options. Two different models at launch, I think.

RE: Memory Options
PilotMad @ 6/1/2007 7:25:07 AM # Q
Update: Gizmodo seems to report 256MB ram. I wonder if this aspect can be confirmed.
RE: Memory Options
PilotMad @ 6/1/2007 8:27:10 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

I think the Vision is SPOT on

whitemiata @ 6/1/2007 9:04:22 AM # Q
Wether the Foleo itself will succeed or not I can't say, but my feeling is that the vision itself is spot on. As an avid Palm user myself I've often marveled at the continual increase in capability of the devices and how much better integrated into my life my PDA is.

I've envisioned a world where I could place my Terabyte storage PDA into it's cradle/hub to which my keyboard, mouse, 30" screen, External HD, Printer are connected. A world where there is no such thing as my PDA AND my COMPUTER which sync with one another, but just ONE device that I can take anywhwere, connect to standardized slave devices and off I go.

I realize that Foleo does NOT do this as it has it's own processor rather than just being a slave system to the PDA, but at this point I don't think this is a negative development.

I also don't think that my *vision* is crazy... after all my Zire72 Has more storage and more processing power than the original Macintosh.

Of course I think it's more likely that Microsoft will follow suit and manage to turn PocketPC into something truly deserving of the name Pocket PC but we'll see.

Reply to this comment

My take

jayhawk88 @ 6/1/2007 9:49:36 AM # Q
Sort of rehashed from a late posting in the release thread:

This is a million-selling product if they price it to sell and don't try and make it be more than it is. There are a lot of road warriors out there carrying Palms and Treo's (especially Treo's), who use it for checking email/calendar during the day, and fall back to the laptops at night in the hotel to do "real" work. They would kill for a device this, smaller, lighter than a laptop for traveling, that gives them a large screen/keyboard interface into their Treo's when they want to do serious email/doc editing/surfing. Let's face it: shooting off quick emails on a Treo is fine, but it really sucks if you want to use it for more than 10 minutes straight.

If this is a $200 device it's glorious. Dump the WiFi, forget about the whole "OMG Linux apps!" angle, we don't need this to be a capable device on it's own. If I want a laptop I'll get a laptop, if I want a sub-laptop mobile device there are a lot of others out there that do it a lot better. The niche here is giving users an interface with their Treo's, which this device is doing, but by trying to cram more features and make it a company saving device, Palm is overshooting their market.

RE: My take
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 10:11:36 AM # Q
Donna Dubinsky once famously said (and it is probably in Pogue's book), "Anyone can move 50,000 units."

Of the Flopeo, I doubt it.

RE: My take
Dr Opinion @ 6/1/2007 12:21:34 PM # Q
> "...Dump the WiFi, forget about the whole "OMG Linux apps!" angle, we don't need this to be a capable device on it's own..."

I completely disagree.

The conventional fat-client PC is obsolete already. Games are better on consoles. Applications are moving to the network.

I'm planning to drive from Istambul to Athens. I bring the treo, and my digital camera. But I'll probably have to drag a workstation-class laptop capable of rendering 3D worlds and playing HD movies. Why????

To play CS on the road, ZOMG?!!!! Er, no.

If I had a Folio, I could blog, backup my photos to my web 2.0 app of choice, and run gmail, docs, and maps. All online.

I could dump the laptop and bring a device that's close to half the volume and half the weight of a Thinkpad X31 "ultra portable", has the same ergonomics, yet has a longer battery life.

Sweet. :)



------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: My take
jayhawk88 @ 6/1/2007 3:05:00 PM # Q
"If I had a Folio, I could blog, backup my photos to my web 2.0 app of choice, and run gmail, docs, and maps. All online."

Perhaps, but the question is, would you really want a Folio to do this? There are other ultra-mobile-yet-bigger-and-better-than-smartphone devices out there, do you really need a Folio to do this? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Folio will be awesome and blow all the other ultra-mobile devices out of the water, but I doubt it.

My point is that Palm's major selling point for this device is as a large, usable interface to peoples Treo's, which is an excellent idea, yet by putting in all these other features and pricing it high they are putting it out of the range of a lot of potential customers. This is something that gadget freaks like ourselves might come to embrace, but from a business standpoint, why would businesses buy their road warriors something like this when you could buy then a dual core Dell for not that much more?

RE: My take
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 4:06:37 PM # Q
>>>If I had a Folio, I could blog, backup my photos to my web 2.0 app of choice, and run gmail, docs, and maps. All online.

Sorry, but you don't KNOW that. You only HOPE that will be the case.

I had similar visions with the Nokia 770. That device was the original Foolio!!

RE: My take
hotpaw03 @ 6/1/2007 4:16:30 PM # Q
Someone once said that 100k units or more in actual use is the critical mass needed to create an active developers community. If so, they'll need to find a way to at least double Dubinsky's number.
RE: My take
ackmondual @ 6/1/2007 5:30:38 PM # Q
""Perhaps, but the question is, would you really want a Folio to do this? There are other ultra-mobile-yet-bigger-and-better-than-smartphone devices out there, do you really need a Folio to do this? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Folio will be awesome and blow all the other ultra-mobile devices out of the water, but I doubt it. ""

Don't ultra compact laptops and such devices around that big cost $600+? If so, that's about the same thing. And even being there are laptops 8" in length that run full version of winXP, they have their share of limitations and hard-to-use elements as well

"Do you know the difference between an error and a mistake? Anyone can make an error, but that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it."
-Grand Admiral Thrawn

the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse

My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71 --> Tungsten T3 (with 4 _GOLDEN_ screws) + zodiac 2 + Tungsten X

RE: My take
Dr Opinion @ 6/2/2007 3:43:09 PM # Q
> "...but the question is, would you really want a Folio to do this? There are other ultra-mobile-yet-bigger-and-better-than-smartphone devices out there..."

Yes, but every smartphone is a compromise for usability and web 2.0 compliance. The Folio gives me *real* *laptop* *ergonomics*... much better than smartphone ergonomics, but does this in half the volume (and price) of an "ultraportable" workstation-class laptop.

> "...If I had a Folio, I could [do lots of stuff] all online."
> "...Sorry, but you don't KNOW that. You only HOPE that will be the case..."

No, I know. The Folio is using the Opera browser and as such is fully web 2.0 complaint. You apparently hope it is not. I'm not sure why. :)

http://www.mobilitysite.com/2007/05/what_will_the_folio_use_opera.php

> "...Don't ultra compact laptops and such devices [...], cost $600+?..."

Ultraportable laptops are the top of the line for PC makers. Any current model ultraportable will be HUGELY more expensive than a Folio: a ThinkPad X60 is about $1900, the Vaio TX series is about $3200. Etc.

Despite the fact that ultraportables cost 3-6 times as much as a Folio, they typically weigh 3.5 lbs or more compared to the Folio at 2.5 lbs, offer maybe 2.5 hours battery life compared to 5 hours for the Folio, and have twice the volume. This is without considering the default multiple/extended batteries typically purchased to keep an ultraportable running.

There's no comparison. Period. :)


------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: My take
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:44:18 AM # Q
>>>No, I know. The Folio is using the Opera browser and as such is fully web 2.0 complaint. You apparently hope it is not. I'm not sure why. :)

Oh for Christ's sake. Here's your wake up call -- and even though it's a link to my blog, I'm quoting a TRUE EXPERT:

http://tinyurl.com/384l7h

See the BOLDFACED TEXT.

Dismissed.

Next!

Reply to this comment

Insightful

Dr Opinion @ 6/1/2007 12:04:08 PM # Q
This was an insightful comment:

> "...This is the first Web 2.0 device that could actually be useful. If the device is quick then I will be buying one right away. Tell me were I can buy a laptop at the Foleo's size with five hours of battery life and instant on capabilities..."

People need to realize what Web 2.0 means.

It means the application is on the network.

It means the storage is on the network.

I do all my document management on google docs, and all my mail accounts forward into gmail. Almost all my data is on the net, apart from my linux home media server hosting movies, audio, and photos. Essentially I don't need to take daily backups on my desktops and laptops any more, except for the media server. Whichever machine I use, my data is available, on the net, or streamed.

My desktop and laptops have become terminals.

Super-powered PC infrastructure is *legacy*. I simply don't need the CPU power my laptop provides. I have to carry around three batteries just to get through a day running web apps and doing email because my laptop is spec'ed out to play HD movies and render 3D worlds in real-time. That's simply ridiculous.

Why do I want a mega-core Intel blah blah, with gizillion GB of RAM, for doing normal PC-stuff? I have a PS3 for games. I have a media server for movies. Why must I buy a workstation-class laptop that runs out of battery in 3 hours if I want something portable with good ergonomics?

The only reason I drag a laptop around is, form factor, ergonomics, and the web 2.0 compatible browser. My Treo 680 is good for quick lookups and edits, and the portable KB is great, but the screen is two small for real work, and the browser doesn't cut it.

Enter the Folio. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: Insightful
SeldomVisitor @ 6/1/2007 12:21:03 PM # Q
At least you could spell it right...


RE: Insightful
mikecane @ 6/1/2007 4:08:16 PM # Q
>>>It means the storage is on the network.

It means you'll never get to see the search warrant the government issues to poke through your private life, because it will be delivered to the "cloudbase" who will never, ever breathe a word of the invasion of your privacy to YOU.

RE: Insightful
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 10:20:54 AM # Q
Relax Mike. I hear that the 770 will be one of the supported devices that you can "companion" with. All is not lost.

Pat Horne
RE: Insightful
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:46:43 AM # Q
>>>Relax Mike. I hear that the 770 will be one of the supported devices that you can "companion" with. All is not lost.

You eejit. BT on the 770 is so locked up someone had to devise a HACK to make it work with ANY NON-Nokia BT KBs (and even then it doesn't work WELL!). Christ, keep yer yap shut on things you haven't used, willya?

Reply to this comment

Instant On - and a request

johnericm @ 6/1/2007 12:51:59 PM # Q
I do like the instant on factor. The only request I have would have been the addition of a ethernet port. I think it would help out for some of those places where it is wired only. Just a thought. Perhaps there is some USB device that can serve the purpose.

Good Luck Palm
I can't wait to see what is next!



RE: Instant On - and a request
hotpaw03 @ 6/1/2007 3:59:15 PM # Q
They are pocket-size portable wifi access points for use at wired only locations.
RE: Instant On - and a request
cervezas @ 6/2/2007 10:27:42 AM # Q
There are pocket-size portable wifi access points for use at wired only locations.

And this gives you a NAT firewall, too. I carry one on business trips and create my own personal network in the hotel and at the client's office. Connecting at the hotel I can usually see 5 or 8 of these that other travellers in the hotel are using, so this seems to work for a lot of other people.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Reply to this comment

Looks like it has potential

aviduser @ 6/1/2007 12:55:00 PM # Q
I have been reading all the comments--negative and positive and I am not convinced either way. I have a Treo 700p and an Apple 12" Powerbook 867--now getting a bit slow and probably in need of an upgrade within a year or two. (I also have a PC at my office and two other desktop macs at home.)

I bought the laptop for travel. Period.

If the Foleo could play DVDs, do email and web with Office viewing & editing, have robust WiFi (at least g), and work with or without my Treo (think: international travel), I could see this product in my future. When I travel on business, I take a laptop for email, web and (mostly) word (though Excel and PowerPoint also). When I travel for pleasure, if I take a laptop, it is to keep in touch. The DVD playing is an added bonus.

I like the instant-on and small form factor. The first version might not be the one, but I could see this product develop into something that would be a great laptop (ie, TRAVEL COMPUTER) replacement. It will not replace my desktop computers--but it is not meant to.

Just the $.02 of a tech-obsessed professional.

aviduser

1995- Newton Message Pad 2000
1998- Palm V
1999- Plam V8 (upgrade)
2000- Palm m505
2001- Palm m515
2003- Kyocera 7135
2004- Treo 600

Still searching for the perfect unit . . . ?

RE: Looks like it has potential
SeldomVisitor @ 6/1/2007 12:57:48 PM # Q
Huh!? Your laptop can't do instant on!?

RE: Looks like it has potential
BaalthazaaR @ 6/1/2007 3:55:24 PM # Q
I was hoping for something that used FOLEDs and a collapsible keyboard. Something like this :
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/05/25/sony.bending.tv.ap/index.html

That way it is at least pocketable. Anything that is not pocketable will never be carried around all the time.

RE: Looks like it has potential
bhartman34 @ 6/1/2007 4:26:15 PM # Q
A roll-up screen would be good, but you'd have a problem attaching it to a foldable keyboard. I think the really cool part would be when you could fold both the keyboard and the screen, together. Technologically, we'll probably get to the point where you have a touchscreen virtual keyboard integrated into a display, and you unfold the whole thing and lay it on a flat surface. I imagine that's at least 10 years away, though. (You'd have to have flash memory integrated into the paper somewhere, and I think that'll be the toughest hurdle...)

RE: Looks like it has potential
SeldomVisitor @ 6/1/2007 4:29:52 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

This is what it should have been...

Colormeweb @ 6/1/2007 4:25:07 PM # Q
http://www.raondigital.com/fnt_english/ev01.asp#

How about this running the new Palm Linux.

RE: This is what it should have been...
pmjoe @ 6/2/2007 2:50:17 AM # Q
Nice! I agree.

RE: This is what it should have been...
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 10:17:18 AM # Q
Looks like something Mike Cane would have up to his ear!

Pat Horne
RE: This is what it should have been...
SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 10:18:53 AM # Q
Bunch of true bozos - the website is broken with Firefox.

RE: This is what it should have been...
Colormeweb @ 6/2/2007 1:15:01 PM # Q
How about Palm's site? I have not been able to use Firefox to goto the Palm site for a long time now, its totally messed up.

RE: This is what it should have been...
SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 1:16:55 PM # Q
Oh, is that right?

Lol! Oh well - maybe now that they're getting into (not in! Giggle.) Linux they'll retain an outsourced web designing outfit that knows more than one browser...

RE: This is what it should have been...
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:49:30 AM # Q
>>>Bunch of true bozos - the website is broken with Firefox.

WTF? It works fine for me. And this on TWO version of Fox -- one I had just days ago and the latest version it just put out this week.

And, no, I wouldn't put the Vega up to my ear, geez. (No comments about where I COULD put it, either.) I liked the design of their first one. This second one creeps me out with that keyboard.

RE: This is what it should have been...
SeldomVisitor @ 6/3/2007 6:32:43 PM # Q
As of the moment of this post it remains broken for my installation of Firefox, v 2.0.0.4 - 32 bit color, 1600x1200 display.

It works fine with IE.

Reply to this comment

Can only view 1 App at a time?

asiayeah @ 6/2/2007 6:39:46 AM # Q
Is it true that Foleo can only show one application at a time?

Given a 10" inch, I think users might want to display two or multiple applications side-by-side or in a window layouts. For example, I might like to show an Excel spreadsheet side-by-side while typing an e-mail.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Can only view 1 App at a time?
LiveFaith @ 6/2/2007 10:18:49 AM # Q
Yeah, but I would say the "might like to" river is a pretty broad one.

Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?

mikecane @ 6/3/2007 11:53:48 AM # Q
>>>Is it true that Foleo can only show one application at a time?

Is that indeed true?! So, Palm will have turned Linux into... GARNET?!!?

"Hey, you can play an MP3 while doing something else, that's multitasking!"

Oh the pain...

At least the Nokia 770 could have *several* things open at once (sometimes without crashing!).

BTW, I would laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh if by year's end Nokia put out a version of their Anti-Net Tab that looked and acted (ie, phone sync) like the Flopeo!

RE: WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?
Ryan @ 6/3/2007 1:10:19 PM # Q
What are you talking about?

It can multitask and run concurrent applications, I witnessed it myself. All apps are designed by default to take up the whole, screen so it appears there is no windowing system, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

RE: WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?
hotpaw4 @ 6/3/2007 2:04:12 PM # Q
It's running linux, which is quite capable of multi-tasking and multi-threading on most of the newer ARM CPU's. The only question is whether their recommended GUI and/or API clutters the display with more than on app or not.
RE: WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?
mikecane @ 6/3/2007 3:12:48 PM # Q
So there are going back to the future by not offering windows, just full-screen panes?

What if, as someone said, you want to be looking at a spreadsheet while doing an email?

RE: WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?
twrock @ 6/3/2007 8:01:24 PM # Q
What are you talking about?

I don't care if it is your site, Ryan. Quit coming in here and shattering our delusions! ;)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: WTF? Flopeo runs ONE APP AT A TIME?!!?
mikecane @ 6/4/2007 7:39:22 AM # Q
I was quoting someone else! Did you miss the >>>?

Reply to this comment

Short sighted imbeciles

m3k @ 6/8/2007 4:32:34 PM # Q
Hi,

I've been using palm's products for years(see my sig). Most people I consider imbeciles are writing this off the charts by comparing it to an full fleged laptop, which is WRONG.

If you've used Palm's products, their main selling points are: Easy to use interface, Super responsiveness, and application support.

Here the Foleo is showing one of the biggest selling points where no laptop competitors has. Instant start up. I don't give a rats ass how fast other lap tops can turn on from hibernation/standby. The Foleo can do that instantly, and maintain a great battery life. The laptops CAN'T. All this combined with a UMPC size and weight and half the price.

With that feature alone, I can see people utilizing way more than laptops because of *instant* start times. This is one of the nice features of PDA's they are instantanious.

The other 2 potential is the 3rd party Software and interface. That is wait and see, but with Palm's track record, I'll bet on that.


I personally hate windows laptops because they are heavy, big, battery sucks, expensive, is like a jack of all trades machine that I don't really need, and a 2nd PC that i have to maintain. I can only see a small amout of people that can utilize all the function a laptop provides. Nevermind the complexity they have to go through to set it up and maintain it(spyware, viruses, instability).

I'm thinking of buying a Foleo, but it will depend on the software it has. I'd get it mainly because of size, instant ON(huge plus), and simple.


IIIXE->650

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
SeldomVisitor @ 6/8/2007 4:38:47 PM # Q
Giggle.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
m3k @ 6/8/2007 4:56:40 PM # Q
"Giggle",

What does that supposed to mean?? Mean u're laughing at the Imbeciles that I'm refering to? Or is it a sarcastic, attempt-to-be-witty response saying my comment was nonsense???

I don't know. I'm just really seeing the potential of this thing. I will infact get one at launch day. To evaluate if I should buy the stock. Maybe you will giggle on that.

IIIXE->650

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
Gekko @ 6/8/2007 5:00:40 PM # Q

you'd be a fool to buy it.



RE: Short sighted imbeciles
mikecane @ 6/8/2007 5:08:28 PM # Q
>>>If you've used Palm's products, their main selling points are: Easy to use interface, Super responsiveness, and application support.

WTF planet are you on? My LIFEDRIVE doesn't have INSTANT ON and especially doesn't have INSTANT OFF!

Go get the latest incarnation of that beast, the Flopeo.

Just don't come around here whining about it afterwards.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
SeldomVisitor @ 6/8/2007 5:09:25 PM # Q
> ...What does that supposed to mean?? ...

That was an entirely appropriate response to your very first post on a message board calling other posters imbeciles.

And said literally with all sincerity!

Giggle.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
m3k @ 6/8/2007 5:12:07 PM # Q
I'd buy it because I know there are times I want to use a laptop, but can't justify myself lugging a big piece of metal, or spending thousands for a small more portible one.

This thing is perfect, I can see good apps for it such as GPS integrated to GOOGLE map. Or when I want to do something fast on it without waiting a few seconds for the thing to turn on. It's all about the speed you can access it, a few seconds is a long time, and u'll factor the delay in before you use it. With instant on, you'd not think twice about waiting for anything to happen.

When you get a product, it's the amount of utilization that you think you'll get out of it to make it a good buy(or good investment). With instant on, that utilization will be increased for sure, fools. Not even Hawkins notice the instant on will be the biggest factor that will spring this thing to the top of the world.

Hey Hawkins, if you see this message PM me, I want a Foleo, I'm cutting up these idiots that is writing your thing off. I will be the guy that is the evangelist to help you market this thing. Think the Wii. Once they see how their friends uses it, they'll want one.

IIIXE->650

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
Gekko @ 6/8/2007 5:15:46 PM # Q

fool.



RE: Short sighted imbeciles
m3k @ 6/8/2007 5:20:11 PM # Q
"Fool",

You and seldomvisitor is the type of people I call imbeciles, and rightly so. Check out your super intelligent to my messages.

First is Giggle, then a more elaberate response to why he said giggle, now is "fool".

I'm not responding to anymore of you ppl that does not add one ounce of logic in your responses.

Lates.

IIIXE->650

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
Ryan @ 6/8/2007 5:47:51 PM # Q
Reporters and pundits also mocked the Pilot 1000 along the same lines when it first came out.

What no serial port, pcmica slot, not enough ram oh it needs a faster processor etc...

Time will tell...

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
BaalthazaaR @ 6/8/2007 6:01:26 PM # Q
Yeah... I whole-heartedly agree.. Only time will tell... Guessing what it is capable of is not a very intelligent way of evaulating it (I would say dumb, but you've got Palm's recent track record on your side). However, I still think that making up your mind based on the marketing speak that is available is not the way to make a good decision. The same goes for all you iPhone criers. I've seen enough of marketing people in action who can't comprehend technology and tout basic capabilities as the amazing features ignoring what truly makes the product remarkable. I hope at least some of you will go to the retail stores when the damn thing comes out and spend some time evaluating it first hand before deciding what it really is.
RE: Short sighted imbeciles
BaalthazaaR @ 6/8/2007 6:04:35 PM # Q
There are also marketing people that have managed to sell sand to the dessert nomads too.
RE: Short sighted imbeciles
Gekko @ 6/8/2007 6:52:42 PM # Q

anything's possible but this pig flying ain't probable.



RE: Short sighted imbeciles
twrock @ 6/8/2007 8:39:22 PM # Q
WTF planet are you on? My LIFEDRIVE doesn't have INSTANT ON and especially doesn't have INSTANT OFF!

But you gotta admit, people warned you. ;-)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
vrf @ 6/13/2007 9:26:23 PM # Q
I never post here but I had to log in. How do you guys put up with Mike Cane? Seriously, the guy comes across as a total asshole.

Mike, grow the **** up.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/13/2007 10:29:46 PM # Q
I never post here but I had to log in. How do you guys put up with Mike Cane? Seriously, the guy comes across as a total asshole.

Mike, grow the **** up.

He was hired as the Palminfocenter "village idiot" after Jeff Kirvin was found (man)tits up.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
mikecane @ 6/14/2007 4:40:46 PM # Q
>>>I never post here but I had to log in. How do you guys put up with Mike Cane? Seriously, the guy comes across as a total asshole.

>>>Mike, grow the **** up.

Go asterisk yourself, crybaby.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
mikecane @ 6/14/2007 4:42:52 PM # Q
>>>He was hired as the Palminfocenter "village idiot" after Jeff Kirvin was found (man)tits up.

You're slipping. But then it's what everyone should expect as the syphilis continues its march through that wad of crap you call a brain.

RE: Short sighted imbeciles
mikecane @ 6/14/2007 4:44:25 PM # Q
>>>But you gotta admit, people warned you. ;-)

Oh man, but even with a CompactFlash there are lags! Don't you have a TX? Do you get 1-second pauses when closing a Memo?

Reply to this comment

Foleao as standalone

jdekeij @ 6/16/2007 6:57:10 AM # Q
It is unclear to me whether the foleo is worth buying as a standalone laptop. Does anyone can give me an idea. Thanks Jasper

Reply to this comment

Foleo, What's the Dealeo? Pro/Con

kzfisher @ 6/16/2007 8:24:18 PM # Q
O.k. I am an antique in the Palm world - I've used Palm products from the Pilot 5000 through my current Tungsten T5 (having owned most models in between) -

I didn't purchase a LifeDrive because it's a essentially a big T5 with a hard drive and WiFi - whoopie! It has same processor & screen as my T5 - I add a WiFi card & a few 2 Gb SD cards & Wow! I've got a LifeDrive minus the ackward size/weight & drive delay factors.

Currently I don't want or need a "smartphone" of any OS - (I know "gasp!")- So I am not even the target for this item from Palm.

With that said, what are potential "Pros" for someone like me - a non smartphone - antique Palm user, buying a Foleo?

1 - Can the Foleo connect to any WiFi? As such it would be handy in places with WiFi hotspots - or home WiFi network.

2 - The idea of a machine with no drive noise, no fan noise makes it great for many meeting settings that I have to be in -

3 - I like the SD & CF slots - makes document transfer easy (I work in a gov. job sector that is very unfriendly to wireless transfer files - no Bluetooth or WiFi allowed) plus I have several Gbs worth of SD & CF cards around already.

4 - If battery life is decent that would be a plus over notebook computer.

5 - The instant on/off -

6 - weight & size are attractive features -

Some of these attributes remind me of the IBM Z50

http://www.hpcfactor.com/reviews/hardware/ibm/workpad-z50/

- It had many of the same ideas in early form - horrible small color screen (We thought it was great for the time)ran Windows CE OS - street price was $1,000 - It was a flop for IBM.

Foleo also reminds me of the AlphaSmart Dana somewhat - Instant on/off, lite-weight, SD slot and WiFi -

I like things with both these machines - I own used e-bay versions of both to mess with.

Given some time I can see a potential host of software turning up to run on Foleo - like the early days of Palm Pilot - maybe? There's always some Linux geeks wanting to get something running on Linux just because

But - Now for my CONS:

Biggest draw back for me is the incompatibility with all the Palm software I already own - Operating on Windows XP, Mac OS X, & Palm platforms I really don't need yet another platform (even if it is Linux based)

As many have stated already - I am still not convinced it will replace my T5 & my sub-notebook - so why would I purchase one?

If price was in the $300-350 range I'd probably get a Foleo -

So for me, until a price drop & some other software (or Palm compatibility) - I'll stick with my Tungesten T5 & my Averatec 1050 sub-notebook for work & travel & my Mac 15" Powerbook at home.

RE: Foleo, What's the Dealeo? Pro/Con
SeldomVisitor @ 6/17/2007 7:08:35 AM # Q
Check out the Asus.

Reply to this comment

SOME people would be interested

Altema @ 6/17/2007 12:27:22 AM # Q
Wow, you guys still here? Actually, I would be interested in a large screen keyboard combo as an expansion to my Palm. I know the design would suck for video, but DTG on the big screen would be cool. And yes, I have multiple laptops ranging from a 2.8GHz Compaq to a smaller than the Folio Fujitsu, but they sure can't run for more than a couple of hours. I know I've been gone for a while, mostly because of the 90% noise and bickering level, but I'm still a hardcore Palm user.

Wait... $600?!!

Nevermind

RE: SOME people would be interested
mikecane @ 9/4/2007 1:54:25 PM # Q
>>>because of the 90% noise

And your post was 100% signal?

Reply to this comment

I liked the Foleo the first time I used it.......

ricoh tek @ 8/16/2007 9:31:06 PM # Q
When i was the Psion Netbook

http://www.psionplace.com/hardware/Psion-Netbook-2000-09-05-psion-psion-spec.html

Or maybe when it was the Jornada 820

http://www.ciao.co.uk/HP_Jornada_820__20314

......or even the Vadem Clio

http://pencomputing.com/archive/PCM25/hardware25/vadem_clio.html


By far, the Psion Netbook was an awesome device that used EPOC OS and didn't have the failings of Windows CE x.xx.
There is NOTHING new with the Foleo.....NOTHING! So sad and have you seen the shots of the newest Treo?

Sorry Palm, your in need of a defibrillator!


RE: I liked the Foleo the first time I used it.......
freakout @ 8/16/2007 9:59:35 PM # Q
So they all had full web browsers, Bluetooth DUN, email syncing, expandable memory up to 16GB, full-size keyboards, high-resolution 10-inch screens, Linux, wi-fi and weighed barely more than a kilo?

Following your links, it appears the answer is a big fat "no". Try again troll boy!

RE: I liked the Foleo the first time I used it.......
ricoh tek @ 8/17/2007 10:58:56 PM # Q
Uh, follow the links your self asswipe and see that these devices are almost 10 years old! Was the technology available then? Again I say, the netbook was capable of wifi and had web browsing, 16 gig, not available til now. The 'point' which you obviously missed was that pal has given us and updated but aged form factor that was abandoned.
What's next? A return to palmtops?

RE: I liked the Foleo the first time I used it.......
mikecane @ 9/4/2007 1:50:39 PM # Q
>>>What's next? A return to palmtops?

I wish!!

Reply to this comment

palm foleo product

davioh @ 9/3/2007 10:48:10 AM # Q
Hi, Im a new user, I don't use the palm much anymore. The product got me excited enough to register. How well do you think it will sync to different devices (windows mobile smartphone) out of the box?

RE: palm foleo product
mikecane @ 9/3/2007 2:42:01 PM # Q
It will only sync with EMAIL out of the box. And as for how well, that is still being worked on. Apparently some bugs still to kill.

RE: palm foleo product
SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2007 5:32:39 PM # Q
> ...It will only sync with EMAIL out of the box...

Details, details, details...

RE: palm foleo product
davioh @ 9/3/2007 8:23:45 PM # Q
well also, I have been seeing a whole lot of notebooks on sale this labor day weekend. I am seeing full fledged notebooks for $400-$600 price range. I think that the price of this should be around $250-$400 to really take off (that and have better than 5 hour battery life). What I'm seeking:
#1. around a $250-$400 price.
#2. around a 12-14 hour battery life (one really long day at work or a week of short days).
#3. works well with a wide variety of smart phones (palm, windows mobile, linux etc.)
I think a lot of people will think see a $500 price and think "why not just get a notebook"???

RE: palm foleo product
mikecane @ 9/4/2007 1:53:01 PM # Q
Yeah, yeah, The Notebook Factor. Find one at that price that's the same weight as the Foleo and you're fine. People keep forgetting the WEIGHT factor.

(Me, I keep wondering about the WAIT factor -- I just know I'll be able to bring a Foleo to its knees within the first ten minutes of fondling it. Let's see if the in-store demo units are fondle-able...)

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