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Comments on: StyleTap Coming to the Apple iPhone / iPod Touch?

StyleTap, the company that develops a Palm OS environment for Windows Mobile devices, has posted a video of an experimental version of StyleTap running on a iPod Touch. According to the company, the video is more of a proof of concept and not an actual product at this time. StyleTap is also not saying definitively whether or not they will release a official version.

In the video (embedded after the break) the Touch is shown running a variety of native Palm OS applications. Bobby Chew, a developer for StyeTap says "This experimental version can run ARMlets and because of the screen size, uses hi-res (double density) bitmaps and fonts. If Apple's security and application installation and distribution scheme isn't too restrictive, it looks like StyleTap will be able to run the same applications on the iPhone/Touch, Symbian and Windows Mobile/CE platforms."

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Oh My!

PacManFoo @ 2/22/2008 9:28:36 PM # Q
Now this is interesting.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm TX (Number 2)
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22, UX50
Casio-EM500
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
Reply to this comment

YES!!!

Smartmoose @ 2/22/2008 9:41:57 PM # Q
This makes me incredibly happy. After having been a PalmOS device user since 1998 (and through about 6 different devices), I'm ready to make the jump to an iPhone, and have been using an iPod Touch in the interim to see how things go (not too bad, thus far). Still, there's some apps I'd hate to give up, including Planetarium (which is shown in the above video).

Apple's official release of the iPhone / iPod touch SDK can't come fast enough.

Reply to this comment

Great news!

Poopie @ 2/22/2008 10:34:06 PM # Q
Hope to be able to use this. Not sure how one would get Palm programs onto an un-jailbroken iphone... I'm hoping the SDK "unlocks the iPhone jail" instead of just allowing users to buy apps from iTunes.

I'm hoping I'll be able to "buy" a free download for dropbear ssh server/client ;)

questions on my mind:

- 320X480?
- possibility for virtual graffiti?
- network support?

... will I be able to run Blazer and Versamail?

RE: Great news!
LiveFaith @ 2/23/2008 1:29:57 AM # Q
Blazer emulated on an iTouch? That's like hoping that the next update to Windows Vista has Sperry-Univac emulation. With the iPhone's browser capabilities, you've gotta be kidding. Right?

Now, what would really get interesting would be Windows Mobile emu on the iPhone. Maybe that's where Apple should focus it's sw work. Palm, WM, Symbian emlation. Then watch the migration. Or at least the lawsuits.

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

yawn!

xpan @ 2/23/2008 1:31:06 AM # Q
hmm... let me see...

option 1:
iPhone/iPod that *emulates* PalmOS without stylus but only finger taps

option 2:
Palm that *runs* PalmOS with full keyboard *AND* possible use of stylus *OR* finger taps

for now I'll go easily with option number 2.


---
"home is where my computer is..."

RE: yawn!
cbowers @ 2/24/2008 2:10:58 AM # Q
Option 1: An iPhone as your phone with the Media playing (downloading, syncing, buying, renting) designed by Apple, Safari as your browser, PLUS the ability to run the Palm apps you've been using for years...

Option 2: A Treo as your phone (and all that entails), Mixed Bag media playing, and Blazer as your browser.

Apple: No doubt they'll be around next year.
Palm: Nothing *but* doubt.

Apple: Designing what customers want/Listening to them - scoring something like 8 out of 10?
Palm: Designing what customers want/Listening to them - Not for at least 8 of the last 10 years.


(Disclosure: Typed on a Mac, with a Tungsten T2 and a Blackberry on my belt, while my TX sits in a drawer because I refuse to give Palm any more money replacing that tissue paper digitizer).

Palm: Give me a TX with an iPhone-esque glass screen with an un-wearoutable multi-touch display, and while you're at it, throw a mic, voice recorder button, vibrate alarm, and charge/alarm LED back in, and I'll buy another one even with the same antiquated OS. Oops there I go again, thinking I know what I want, better than you do.
"Please Sir, can I have some more?"
It's just that I have a Dickens of a time with my stylus taps jumping Oliver the place, and I have to Twist the case to get it to calibrate.

RE: yawn!
twrock @ 2/24/2008 6:11:39 AM # Q
I refuse to give Palm any more money replacing that tissue paper digitizer

Agreed. The stock TX digitizer is pretty poor quality. Did you notice this thread on the topic over in the forums? http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34099


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
Reply to this comment

Things are S L O W

theog @ 2/23/2008 4:03:17 AM # Q
Things are so slow at Palm that people don't even bother to rumors.

We are left with this garbage.

Vote for John Kerry... best man for the job.

RE: Things are S L O W
LiveFaith @ 2/23/2008 4:57:24 PM # Q
theog,

You are so hopelessly negative! Have you not seen the four new Centro colors that are on the way? Step back Stevie Jobs, the Palmies are about to camp out over at AT&T this time!!!

Pat Horne

Reply to this comment

Oooh...

samdapdaman @ 2/23/2008 8:09:10 AM # Q
This is fantastic - I definitely made the right choice to switch to a touch. How this pans out is going to be cool. How would you sync your virtual palm though? A Virtual Memory card?
Imagine... >128MB of memory!

-palm the same mistakes with each model, only, just more advanced ones (still waiting 4 cobalt)
Reply to this comment

Multi-platform applications

danceman @ 2/23/2008 10:36:37 AM # Q
I'm a developer and one thing I have always noticed, it's real hard to make multi-platform applications. If you support a platform you may need to have a new team, more expenses, etc... Till now we have had Java ("Java Me" but still to many Virtual Machines to tweak to), Flash (Flash 9 not in all operating systems, some still on Flash 5 or Flash lite 1,2,3) and now Silverlight (Windows and Mac X, Linux is becoming ready). But they all have there problems.

Now there is a new contender, one that has be here for about 16 years or more, and can use different codes that even has more years (C, basic, python, etc...), have you noticed that a developer right now can develop one application and it can run on Palm OS inside theres others Operating Systems: Mobile Windows, ALP, Nokia 800-810, Iphone, near future Symbian and on Windows? Yes developing for the Palm OS. With theses emulators: Styletap, ALP Garnet emulator and the Windows Palm emulator the same app can run on all these platforms. Palm OS has bluetooth api, WIFI api, 320x480 screen api, which most others so called Multi-platform still have some problems with.

Things would be even better if Styletap would make it more of a Virtual Player, like in ALP, or like Java Virtual Machine, run a PalmOS app and not even know that its in a Virtual Player, even take advantage of multitasking of the Operating System.

Palm OS is becoming one of the Operating Systems with the most apps (or maybe it is), and compatible with the most Operating Systems. Maybe the Foleo dream is already happening, one app that can run on our mobile device and the same app run on our laptop and the mobile device being the transport of the information or in easier words our documents.

Developers are starting to have there life easier, develop one app, and the final client be happier because he only has to buy one app to work in them all. Change hardware, it being Iphone, HTC, Palm, Nokia and not worrying about the apps he is used too or needs to buy again. I think this is what the mobile world needs, one developing platform, I vote PalmOS.

RE: Multi-platform applications
SeldomVisitor @ 2/23/2008 11:37:34 AM # Q
Develop in Java and beat PalmOS out of the gate w.r.t. number of OSes it runs on.

RE: Multi-platform applications
robera @ 2/23/2008 3:14:17 PM # Q
Good points DanceMan. I agree with you and I also vote on Palm OS.

Java sucks Seldomvisitor. I never used any Java app that have satisfied me.

RE: Multi-platform applications
hotpaw4 @ 2/23/2008 6:08:36 PM # Q
If StyleTab made a browser plug-in that would run on IE, Firefox, and Safari under Windows, Mac OS and linux, they would have a killer cross-platform platform application that, for some types of user-oriented applications and games, would be better than Java or DHTML. Imagine hosting sync'd copies of your PIM databases on Google, and having access to them from anywhere from almost any kind of device, using *your* favorite PIM utilities, which probably have a much better and more responsive UI than Google apps/calendar can provide using interpreted Javascript/DHTML.
Reply to this comment

this crap

happyPalm @ 2/23/2008 1:14:41 PM # Q
the PPC version is crap too. low res and it looks ugly and it can only run all the apps. from the iTouch demo it sucks too. horrible gfx.

Reply to this comment

What Palm App is so critical that you need this?

Gekko @ 2/23/2008 1:44:28 PM # Q

really, what Palm app is so critical and irreplaceable that you need this kludge?

is there really not an equivalent app for you via another OS?

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
LiveFaith @ 2/23/2008 5:02:24 PM # Q
#1 ClipboardExtend Hack

#2 Palm Mirror

#3 iPhony

... don't make me continue.

Pat Horne

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/23/2008 7:32:23 PM # Q
Calendar

MemoPad

SmartDOC (no longer made)

MiniWrite

-- until iPhone devs knock them out.

That demo was a revelation to me. I'd forgotten all about that simulator.

I. Want. It.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
PacManFoo @ 2/23/2008 8:45:15 PM # Q
Mine are:

Automobile: I record every fill up and can determine what gas station has better gas by my milage.

ThinkDB: I have been keeping track of my bills with the same tinybyte since 2000

eReader: I have purchased too many books over the years not to be able to read them.

iSilo: I have reference material that is only in this format.

TealDoc: My fav Doc Reader/Writer

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm TX (Number 2)
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22, UX50
Casio-EM500
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
PacManFoo @ 2/23/2008 10:02:14 PM # Q
SmartDOC doesn't even read/write to and from a card does it?

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm TX (Number 2)
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22, UX50
Casio-EM500
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
cbowers @ 2/24/2008 1:12:21 AM # Q
All the things that there aren't currently analogs for on an iPhone or even my blackberry for that matter.
-BigClock (free, multiple timers and alarms with the flexibility to have different alarm times on different days without cluttering up a calendar).
-PTimlog (Time/billing tracking software)
-LifeBalance
-MyBible
-PilotDB
-Reminder (birthday, anniversary tracking in a UI I find unique and useful)
-1st AID
-33 Knots
-Astro Info
-PocketSat
-Ballistics
-PocketSharpShooter
-BabyCheck
-Earth & Sun
-Stat Growth Charts
-Labor Timer
-Commute (transit tracking)
-RJ45 (Ethernet wiring)
-Resistor (color coding)
-!!! TideTool !!!
-TomeRaider
-CryptoPad
-PilotDB (tons of DB's)
-BloodPressure Manager
-Guitar Tuner
-Sun Angle
-Thunder
-PortScanner
-Pssh
-SmbMate
-LFtp

I'd have put PalmVNC on their too except that this week I watched a JailBroken iPhone do a great job with LogMeIn.

And I'd put DateBk6 on there but I don't imagine it will be any use on an iPhone without a sync ability.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
twrock @ 2/24/2008 1:32:49 AM # Q
First, the alternate OS isn't going to be WinMob. So telling me that these apps are available on that platform is of no interest to me. Why am I being apparently so petty about WM? Because I am not interested in doing my part to help MS own the handheld space in same way they own the desktop space. MS will always be here, and they will always provide competition to help drive everyone else to create better products. But once they have achieved their monopoly in any space and no longer have a threat, things stagnate. Why should I help them achieve that?

In addition, when I have played with a WinMob device (not a lot of effort on my part there, I admit), I have not been "thrilled" by the experience. I still prefer Garnet with it's limitations to WM.

Obviously the thought of having to pay again for the collection of apps I've acquired over the years will not make me a happy man. So for purely economic reasons, I'd rather just be able to run what I've already got until such time as a truly superior product is offered, something that does everything my current app does and something more that I really need as well. So I consider not having to repurchase apps a distinct advantage of sticking with a solution that allows me a slower migration path away from Garnet apps.

Taking a look at the alternatives:

Apple's iPhone and Touch are options, once they are really open so that I can either replace a few of my critical apps or still use them via something like StyleTap.

Nokia's internet tablet might have been a really good option, particularly since we already know that it can run Garnet VM, but the device is a little too big for me to carry everywhere on my person.

ALP is a quite realistic option from everything I've looked it. But ALP is the software platform, and I'll have to wait to see what shows up on the hardware end of things.

Android? Palm's next gen OS? I don't know enough about either of those yet to make any kind of guess, but I suspect that Palm's next OS will be able to run Garnet apps (similar to ALP; and if Palm doesn't build that in, they are truly crazy).

So now after all that, back to the question at hand: apps.

-iSilo (for the aforementioned reason)
-A really good PIM app like DateBk
-Chinese character handwriting recognition (does this eliminate Apple's offerings?)
-KDIC Chinese/English/Chinese dictionary with the DA to pop up definitions of marked words

There are some others, but I can either live without them or it's my guess that they are readily available or will be in the near future on something else.

And as always, YMMV.




"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
cbowers @ 2/24/2008 2:22:21 AM # Q
Really TWRock? Give a man a millimeter, he thinks it's a mile ;-)

Looks pretty close to me.
Sorry PIC for the Brighthand intrusion but:
T|X and N810 -
http://www.brighthand.com/assets/7101.jpg
Taken from: http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?p=1618784

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
twrock @ 2/24/2008 6:05:09 AM # Q
cbowers, thanks for that info. I was a bit shocked to see those links because it wasn't what I "remembered". Turns out what I was remembering was the 770 and 800 which did add quite a bit of size over the TX. But the 810 seems to be another story! You are right; the size difference is now negligible.

On the other hand, the price difference is not negligible. Up in that price range, I'm going to want them to throw in the phone as well. But at least it is something to consider.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
Gekko @ 2/24/2008 1:18:05 PM # Q

oh come on! mobile word and excel can replace all of those silly black-box proprietary close apps!

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/24/2008 2:22:15 PM # Q
>>>SmartDOC doesn't even read/write to and from a card does it?

No. I use FileZ to shuttle them back and forth. I like it that way. When I tested other programs that did read from/write to the card, the time it took to build the frikkin index was ginormous. Ah, yes, now it all comes back to me: the trauma that was Docs2Go!!!

Yeah, so I guess I better add FileZ to that list. Erp.

Gekko: Hello! I *had* a PPC -- Toshiba GENIO. Pocket Word *wasn't* what I needed. SmartDOC is plain doc. WORD was overkill -- and SLOWER!

After typing that original list last night, I remembered that, duh, Calendar & Contacts are PALM apps so probably can't be used. But I was reminded there is DateBook+ and I suppose a 3rd-party Contact replacement too.

Anyway, this would just be a crutch until the iDevs CRUSH PalmOS to death death death. And good riddance!! *mad cackle*

Colligan won't have to be fired or resign. The company will simply die. Buh-bye!

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/24/2008 2:25:59 PM # Q
>>>T|X and N810

GTFOH. The Finnish Abomination is WAAAAY THICKER and HEAVIER than a TX.

tw, don't let him mess with your head like that.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
Gekko @ 2/24/2008 3:04:15 PM # Q

i don't like my data trapped in black-box proprietary closed apps.

that's why whenever possible, i use excel/word docs.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
Marshall Flinkman @ 2/24/2008 5:14:08 PM # Q
Mike, as someone else said before, the N810 is distinctly smaller than either the N800 or N770, so it's not much bigger than a T|X.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
twrock @ 2/24/2008 6:35:03 PM # Q
i don't like my data trapped in black-box proprietary closed apps.

that's why whenever possible, i use excel/word docs.


Are you taking the day off? Be sure to hang out the "Gone Fishing" sign.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/24/2008 8:19:45 PM # Q
Gekko goes all Gekko on us once again...

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/24/2008 8:26:19 PM # Q
810: Thickness: 0.55 in

TX: .61" D

BAH! Foiled by facts again.

tw --> Don't do it!

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
mikecane @ 2/24/2008 8:29:28 PM # Q
Bite it, Finns:

iPhone: Depth: 0.46 inch

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
MrStyle @ 2/26/2008 1:27:52 PM # Q
For me it's MyCheckbook. <http://www.thequickster.com/products/> If this comes to be I'll be all over both StyleTap & an iPod touch. Probably... The damn thing is pretty expensive, but the Safari browser is VASTLY superior to Web Pro 3.5.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
Perfekshunist @ 2/27/2008 4:28:47 PM # Q
Another vote for eReader. I've also bought a lot of ebooks over the years, and I'd hate to lose the ability to access them. An iPhone/iPod touch native reader that reads secure Palm ebooks would be even better, but that seems less likely to happen.

Also, Natara DayNotez. I have 21 years of DayNotez entries that I'd like to be able to access (pre-Palm/DayNotez entries were exported from a Mac application, imported into Excel for Windows, imported into MS Access, and finally imported into DayNotez Desktop - it was as much a pain as it sounds, so I'd like not to have to do anything like that again). Sure, I could keep those entries in a word processor or spreadsheet, but an application designed for a particular purpose, like DayNotez, makes working with the data much easier.

I'm hoping developers release iPhone/iPod touch applications that meet all of my needs, but a PalmOS emulator, if done well, would guarantee continuity.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
bhartman34 @ 4/9/2008 1:15:02 AM # Q
The fact of the matter is, you can put all the emulation on n iPhone/iPod Touch that you want, but it's still not going to touch the Palm in utility until Apple opens up the SDK to more fully integrate with the phone, calendar, and alarm functions. (Not to mention the video and music functions, in case people want to play formats not blessed by Apple.) Even disregarding the boatloads of e-books, data files (e.g., HandBase databases) etc., there are a lot of Palm apps that simply won't be able to work on an iPhone/iPod the way that they do on a Palm. In fact, because SDK-created programs won't be able to run in the background, even something as basic as a timer will probably be DOA.

Apple has actually done the bare essentials here: It's just enough different from their original idea of Safari-based apps to qualify as an SDK. And that's all.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
CFreymarc @ 4/15/2008 4:43:04 PM # Q
I have agree with you there. The jury is in on the public iPhone SDK and it is pretty much hobbled and pod like. You can do focused, enterprise apps and games fine but when it is time to do extraordinary connectivity or paradox shifting apps, it falls short.

This is rather hypocritical of Apple to promote their products for changing the world and the way people work. However, when it comes to developers doing just that on Apple home turf, they will have nothing of it.

If anyone pitched a tent outside of Infinity Loop looking for a job now, I think they be given a trespassing notice and then arrested if they stayed instead of getting an interview. I wonder how many Andy Hertzfields have been passed over because of this.

RE: What Palm App is so critical that you need this?
Gekko @ 5/30/2008 6:30:47 PM # Q

iMirror?

Reply to this comment

FYI Gekko

mikecane @ 2/24/2008 8:18:54 PM # Q
>>>He rose through the ranks to group cd and helped create the "Dude, You're Gettin' a Dell" campaign that helped the computer maker climb from fourth in the industry to No. 1 in home PC sales.

http://tinyurl.com/2uyv7x

Reply to this comment

OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone

Gekko @ 3/8/2008 8:30:57 PM # Q

"We all had cellphones. We just hated them, they were so awful to use. The software was terrible. The hardware wasn't very good. We talked to our friends, and they all hated their cellphones too. Everybody seemed to hate their phones. And we saw that these things really could become much more powerful and interesting to license. It's a huge market. I mean a billion phones get shipped every year, and that's almost an order of magnitude greater than the number of music players. It's four times the number of PCs that ship every year.

"It was a great challenge. Let's make a great phone that we fall in love with. And we've got the technology. We've got the miniaturization from the iPod. We've got the sophisticated operating system from Mac. Nobody had ever thought about putting operating systems as sophisticated as OS X inside a phone, so that was a real question. We had a big debate inside the company whether we could do that or not. And that was one where I had to adjudicate it and just say, 'We're going to do it. Let's try.' The smartest software guys were saying they can do it, so let's give them a shot. And they did."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/index.html


RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 3/8/2008 8:46:36 PM # Q

Colligan Laughs Off iPhone Competition

Responding to questions from New York Times correspondent John Markoff at a Churchill Club breakfast gathering Thursday morning, Colligan laughed off the idea that any company - including the wildly popular Apple Computer - could easily win customers in the finicky smart-phone sector.

"We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone," he said. "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.'"


RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
mikecane @ 3/8/2008 10:04:41 PM # Q
Geez, Gekko, why not just link to my post when you pull that quote out?

It has pretty pictures!

http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/09/07/dumbass-of-the-year-ed-colligan/

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
SeldomVisitor @ 3/9/2008 7:58:35 AM # Q
Regardless where the quote resides, the fact that it is accurate and exists at all is more important.

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 3/9/2008 9:33:41 AM # Q

i wonder if colligan reads this site.

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
CFreymarc @ 4/15/2008 4:45:54 PM # Q
I can tell you with 90% certainty this site is a popular after hours site for most pulling a Palm paycheck. However, it is mostly for humor and seeing what the fringe is interested in and not people with money.
RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 4/15/2008 8:44:27 PM # Q
well, if that's true, then the last laugh will be on them.

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
mikecane @ 4/16/2008 7:52:12 PM # Q
>>>what the fringe is interested

Enjoy your impending unemployment, frigtard.

Apple is getting rich selling to the "fringe," asshat.

How was YOUR company's last quarterly result? Oh, right: FAIL!

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 4/16/2008 11:33:40 PM # Q

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages." - Henry Ford

"The customer is not an interruption of our work, but the purpose of it." - Ray Kroc, McDonald's



RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 4/16/2008 11:35:17 PM # Q

Responding to questions from New York Times correspondent John Markoff at a Churchill Club breakfast gathering Thursday morning, Colligan laughed off the idea that any company - including the wildly popular Apple Computer - could easily win customers in the finicky smart-phone sector.

"We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone," he said. "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.'"

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
mikecane @ 4/17/2008 3:29:29 PM # Q
Will someone please tell Colligan the day of the week?

I hear he's that clueless.

Even with his pink Centro in hand.

(Oooh, pink! My God! Steve Jobs is bashing his skull for not thinking of THAT!)

RE: OT: Steve Jobs on the birth of the iPhone
Gekko @ 4/17/2008 9:33:15 PM # Q
Reply to this comment
RE: And to Symbian
Ryan @ 4/8/2008 7:31:03 PM # Q
old news... what is surprising is that that iPod touch styletap video recieved over 700,000 views.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8239/styletap-coming-to-symbain-os-devices/

RE: And to Symbian
mikecane @ 4/16/2008 7:53:31 PM # Q
>>>over 700,000 views.

Yeah, but according to the alleged dickhead from Palm above, 700K is a "fringe."

Just like the one at the bottom of the slip that dickless eejit no doubt wears.

Reply to this comment

I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!

mikecane @ 4/16/2008 8:28:34 PM # Q
Die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die Die die die die die Die die die die die die die die die die Die die die die die Die die die die die Palm!

iPhone Graffiti offers Palm-style handwriting recognition
http://www.iphonebuzz.com/iphone-graffiti-offers-palm-style-handwriting-recognition-162216.php

Colligan wets his pants.

Rubinstein curses his stupid investment.

ACCESS's executives plan to jump out their window.

And my Day of iPhone gets one day closer.

Die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die Die die die die die Die die die die die die die die die die Die die die die die Die die die die die Palm!

CHINESE HWR for iPhone
mikecane @ 4/16/2008 8:37:50 PM # Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ke2A-lwIpCA

Come out, come out, wherever you are, twrock!

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
Ryan @ 4/16/2008 9:41:44 PM # Q
You do realize you'd have to use a finger for that? Styli do not work on the iPhone touchscreen, only flesh.

I can't imagine it being any more useful that the awful virtualkeyboard.

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
bhartman34 @ 4/16/2008 10:23:59 PM # Q
Using your finger like a Palm stylus just seems silly to me. And I really don't see the need for it, anyway, if the iPhone keyboard is so good. Keyboard text entry should be faster than Graffiti, shouldn't it? It definitely is on the Centro (despite the tiny keys).

Do you think it's possible for someone to write an app enabling stylus use on an iPhone? I could see the use of that. A stylus is a much better drawing tool than a finger.

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
SeldomVisitor @ 4/17/2008 8:53:19 AM # Q
Wow - that Chinese handwriting input was cool - wish some of these guys used real cameras able to focus close, though. Sheesh.

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
nastebu @ 4/17/2008 9:45:03 AM # Q
Oh yes, Chinese language support means Japanese can't be far behind. I imagine using a finger as a stylus is going to suck at first, but if the software is well written... the iphone screen is nice and big, maybe you get used to it?


RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
mikecane @ 4/17/2008 3:28:07 PM # Q
Ryan: That it *exists* at all is enough of a miracle.

Some people have mentioned specific styli that would work with the iPhone's special screen. Me, I wouldn't want to risk scratching it or wearing it out. I suspect when I get one, I'll stick to the keyboard (it works pretty well with the auto-suggest).

RE: iPhone Chinese HWR
twrock @ 4/17/2008 8:52:56 PM # Q
That is cool! Here's hoping it will be released. (Has it yet? Did I miss that part?)

I too wish it was in focus. At first, I wondered if it really could handle complex characters (i.e. many strokes), but at the end he started to do just that. So I really wanted to see if it was coming up with the character he was writing (vs. just something in the neighborhood). From what I could see of the stokes on the screen (the blue lines), it looked surprisingly precise. If so, someone really has done an amazing job of getting a "blunt" finger to be recognized with really good precision. I assume that is simply part of Apple's touch technology, which must be anything but simple. Yep, amazing!


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
mikecane @ 4/17/2008 9:33:15 PM # Q
>>>(Has it yet? Did I miss that part?)

Nah. That's gotta be an alpha version. But people *can* download it as is. But it gets real hairy if you want to UNinstall it. Follow the story link on my blog that will lead to the forum where you can read the (mis)adventures of people trying it. You must jailbreak or pwn the iP/iPT to get it on.

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/18/2008 4:44:37 AM # Q
You must jailbreak or pwn the iP/iPT to get it on.

:( Big tease!

So is this just going to end up being one of those many examples of great ideas that Apple won't let see the light of day?

"We are sorry to inform you, but your square peg didn't fit through our round orifice. Next time try sending us something that we can completely understand and control. But thanks for trying, and better luck next time." The Apple Control Center


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
hkklife @ 4/18/2008 9:52:35 AM # Q
ALl of this just simply reinforces the fact that many someones at Palm need to be taken and flogged severely for not coming to terms with Xerox to license the original Graffiti 1 libraries over the past 5-6 years.

Of course, an equal amount of flogging should occur over Palm's utter refual to continue to release devices with 320x480 screens and give the proper support for developers to support that resolution.

Between Apple's elitist arrogance and Palm's penny-pinching arrogance, we may NEVER see the large-screened, stylus-capable, media-savvy smartphone with open access to thousands of apps/freeware that we've been dreaming about for years.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
mikecane @ 4/18/2008 10:58:24 AM # Q
>>>Between Apple's elitist arrogance

Gimme a break. Apple has done more to fulfill customer expectations in the iPod line than Palm *ever* did with PDAs. In fact, in many cases Apple *exceeded* expectations.

And if you really want, you can get a damned stylus that will work with an iP/iPT.

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
hkklife @ 4/18/2008 12:03:33 PM # Q
Not one that is housed in an internal silo!

As far as *THIS* consumer's expectations, I'll only be happy with an iPod (or any media-playing device) when I can plug it in to ANY modern PC (regarless of OS) and have it appear as a removalbe drive and drop & drop MP3s *without* having to go through the abomination that is iTunes under Windows.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/18/2008 1:36:21 PM # Q
Apple has done more to fulfill customer expectations in the iPod line than Palm *ever* did with PDAs.

Now come on Mike. That's overstated. Even if I grant you that it might be "technically" true, that's only because with the iPod line, all anyone "expected" to get was a glorified media player. No one buying an iPod expected it to have Palm-like functionality. But those of us buying Palm OS PDA's got a serious pocket-computer with incredible third-party support. And we could see the potential that still existed, which kept our expectations very high (at least they were high before Palm transitioned into their almost unbelievable self-destruct mode; now most of us expect nothing from Palm).

And in my book, Apple is also disappointing with their supposedly "open" SDK, yet anal-retentive distribution system designed to keep all of the control in-house. Premium pricing for limited functionality might be fulfilling your expectations, but not mine.

All the hype (from everyone) might be interesting to read and discuss, but I'm not holding my breath for any of these companies. And I am definitely not buying "promises".


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/18/2008 1:51:13 PM # Q
Re: "the abomination that is iTunes under Windows", did you catch that slick little "marketing" sleight of hand from Apple? All of a sudden your Apple iTunes "update" notification includes a new Safari download with the button pre-checked. Very Microsoft-ish marketing method if you ask me. No thanks.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
hkklife @ 4/18/2008 2:48:07 PM # Q
I'm not a Mac guy but I do (grudgingly) own an iPod Classic 160gb. That godawful "click wheel" is simply the worst thing I've ever seen for navigating hundreds of albums' worth of info, with the laggy Coverflow being a close 2nd. Handspring/Palm's brilliant one-handed contact lookup feature would make a MUCH better way of navigating more than a few gigs of media.


P.S. I already have Firefox & IE7 installed. Can anyone offer a good reason why I'd WANT Safari on my Wintel machine as well?

P.P.S.
"Premium pricing for limited functionality might be fulfilling your expectations, but not mine."
AMEN!


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
stonemirror @ 4/18/2008 6:45:46 PM # Q
In fact, in many cases Apple *exceeded* expectations.

Not, apparently, as far as sales went. European carriers are getting ready to take big write-downs on unsold first-generation iPhones: see http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3770932.ece


RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/18/2008 11:52:37 PM # Q
From the article re next gen iPhone:
Industry sources told Times Online that the device will have a "radically different" appearance to the current device, which has a 4.5 inch screen and slick, aluminium backing. Among the possibilities are flip version, which would enable the screen to be larger, and a sliding model with a regular qwerty keyboard - as opposed to a touchscreen one.

"I think ultimately you going to see multiple versions," one Asia-based analyst, said. "One for customers who want it principally as a music and video device, which will be similar to the existing model, one for people who want to communicate - with the keyboard, and one for people who want it as a substitute for their laptop - that will let them browse the internet on a larger screen."

(emphasis mine)

[sarcasm] Who'da thunk it? Multiple versions for multiple purposes and larger screens! It really is too bad that PIC readers didn't have a clue about what Palm could have been doing all along to keep in the lead in this market space. [/sarcasm]




"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/19/2008 2:58:15 AM # Q
Re: Apple "slipping us a mickey", looks like they backed down, ...at least a little.
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/04/18/apple_updates_safari_update/


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: I dance and SPIT on the grave of Palm!
twrock @ 4/20/2008 2:37:21 AM # Q
Can anyone offer a good reason why I'd WANT Safari on my Wintel machine as well?

Of course you want it! Steve said you do.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
Reply to this comment

Large Screens?

bhartman34 @ 4/19/2008 9:20:24 AM # Q
I see a lot of people lamenting about the lack of a large screen phone for Palm, but I've got to ask, isn't the trade-off with a large screen obvious?

If you had a TX-sized smart-phone, you'd have several difficulties:

1) It would suck battery life like there's no tomorrow. (If you think the Centro's battery life is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet...)

2) Big screens mean big devices. Something Centro-sized is a lot easier to carry around than something TX-sized.

3) With a big screen, you're giving up the hardware keyboard. In my experience, even the tiny Centro keyboard is better than not having one at all. (The fact that we've seen people trying to run Graffiti-like apps on the iPod Touch/iPhone is all the proof I need that the virtual keyboard doesn't cut it for a lot of people.)

4) Cost - This one goes without saying. You'd have to pay through the nose for such a device.

The only benefit I see of a larger screen is more screen real estate and (obviously) larger graphics. That's got it's benefits for things like games and viewing documents (the one area in which Centro really disappoints), but for most [i]phone[/i] things, what's a larger screen going to do for you?



RE: Large Screens?
Gekko @ 4/19/2008 10:33:17 AM # Q

"We are well positioned whichever way the market goes."


RE: Large Screens?
twrock @ 4/20/2008 2:23:19 AM # Q
...isn't the trade-off with a large screen obvious?

Of course it is. And isn't the trade-off with a small square screen obvious?

It really is simple. No one is saying that the Centro (and other small smartphones) isn't the kind of smartphone some people want. For you, sounds like you are really happy with the trade-offs you are making by having an especially small screened smartphone. Great! That's not what I (and quite a few other people around here) want. I don't want it to the extent that I don't even mind carrying two devices around just so I can have my Palm OS functionality in a large screened device, but still have to carry a separate phone.

But it seems that you are no different than the decision makers at Palm. The Treo was deemed the perfect smartphone form factor (the Centro is only more of the same in a smaller wrapper), so there wasn't a reason to make anything else. Plenty of us were asking for the "iPhone" form factor long before it was announced. And when Apple "got it" on the first try (despite Colligan's predictions to the contrary), we started saying, "I told you so." And that's what I'm still saying. If the rumours in the article linked above turn out to be true, and if Apple is successful in selling a good number of "other" form factors, doesn't that simply say that there are a lot of different people out there who want something different than you believe is optimal, and making a range of products is the most obvious solution?

Please hear me when I say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Centro .... for you. But there is plenty wrong with it ... for me. If I am dissing the Centro (or any other Palm phone), I am not trying to say that it is a bad device per se or that there is no market for it. I am just pushing the idea of an "iPhone-like" device, hoping that Palm will finally decide that it is worth making such a thing. It's silly for me to hope, I know, but I still do anyway.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Large Screens?
bhartman34 @ 4/20/2008 10:23:04 AM # Q
Of course it is. And isn't the trade-off with a small square screen obvious?

It really is simple. No one is saying that the Centro (and other small smartphones) isn't the kind of smartphone some people want. For you, sounds like you are really happy with the trade-offs you are making by having an especially small screened smartphone. Great! That's not what I (and quite a few other people around here) want. I don't want it to the extent that I don't even mind carrying two devices around just so I can have my Palm OS functionality in a large screened device, but still have to carry a separate phone.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that a Centro-sized phone is perfect for everyone. Sorry if I gave that impression.

What I was reacting to was the notion that the release of the Centro was some kind of Homer Simpsonesque blunder, and what the world really needs is a Palm iPhone clone. I was also trying to get a handle on what the big advantages would be of a larger device and screen. It's not that I begrudge anyone the device that meets their needs. I'm just trying to figure out what need the larger screen satisfies. Hell, if the advantages of a large screen are really that stellar, maybe [i]I'll[/i] want my next device to have a large screen! :)

RE: Large Screens?
twrock @ 4/20/2008 12:12:53 PM # Q
I hear you. And I can see how people might get from the things that I said about the Centro that I thought it was a major mistake. I didn't think so much that it was a mistake per se than I was just frustrated to see Palm just doing the "same old thing" when we'd been begging for something much different. Whether it is primarily the small design or primarily the pricing, the Centro is selling well. Can't fault them for that. But I can fault them for letting someone else come out with the "TX-with-a-cell-radio" before Palm did it themselves. (How many times did they want Pat to draw it up for them?!!!)

The large screen is important to me for a number of reasons. The two biggest are the age of my eyes and more "readable" data being available on the screen at one time (for getting work done or simply reading). Editing documents in landscape mode on a TX is very nice.

I went from a Handera 330 to a TT2 to a TX. I regretted that TT2 purchase almost immediately because of its small square screen. I swore to myself that I would not buy another "fixed Graffiti area" handheld again (and I hated the slider as well). I was thrilled when the TX arrived. And if I can help it, I won't go back to a small screen again.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

RE: Large Screens?
bhartman34 @ 4/21/2008 8:24:24 AM # Q
I hear you. And I can see how people might get from the things that I said about the Centro that I thought it was a major mistake. I didn't think so much that it was a mistake per se than I was just frustrated to see Palm just doing the "same old thing" when we'd been begging for something much different. Whether it is primarily the small design or primarily the pricing, the Centro is selling well. Can't fault them for that. But I can fault them for letting someone else come out with the "TX-with-a-cell-radio" before Palm did it themselves. (How many times did they want Pat to draw it up for them?!!!)

The large screen is important to me for a number of reasons. The two biggest are the age of my eyes and more "readable" data being available on the screen at one time (for getting work done or simply reading). Editing documents in landscape mode on a TX is very nice.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about editing docs on the TX. That's much easier than doing it on the Centro. (It's possible on the Centro, if you've got the Universal Wireless Keyboard, but the size of the screen makes it less than pleasant.)

I do think the iPhone isn't the "TX-with-a-cell-radio" that you're looking for, though. From my perspective, it looks more like an "IPod-with-a-cell-radio", which is slightly less impressive to me. The SDK is what ruins the iPhone/iPod Touch as a Palm-like device. Apple has it too locked down to do most of the useful things you can do with a Palm.

So, if they want to do it, I think there's still an opportunity for Palm to come back with a TX-with-a-cell-radio. I just wouldn't count on it having great battery life or being a great text-editing machine (without an IR or Bluetooth keyboard).

Incidentally, that's the space I thought the Foleo was going to fill for Palm: If you have the large screen and keyboard right there, any Treo or Centro could effectively become that large-screen PDA. I think the problem was the price point. They priced it like a subnotebook, when that's not quite what it was.

RE: Large Screens?
twrock @ 4/21/2008 7:47:33 PM # Q
I do think the iPhone isn't the "TX-with-a-cell-radio" that you're looking for....

I agree. Yes, I am only talking about the form factor, not the software side of things.

The promise of "opening" the iPhone from Apple was just a tease. They did not intend to be truly open about anything. Many suspected as much.


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

Reply to this comment

3G iPhone Details: 'Radically Different,' May Have Keyboard

Gekko @ 4/20/2008 9:57:04 AM # Q

Times Online understands that Apple has placed an order with its Asian suppliers to produce 200,000 of the new 3G iPhones by the end of May, rising to 2 million - 500,000 per week - in June.

With a four week lead time between production and placement, that would leave Mr Jobs free to launch the device during an annual developers conference at which he usually speaks.

Industry sources told Times Online that the device will have a "radically different" appearance to the current device, which has a 4.5 inch screen and slick, aluminium backing. Among the possibilities are flip version, which would enable the screen to be larger, and a sliding model with a regular qwerty keyboard - as opposed to a touchscreen one.

"I think ultimately you going to see multiple versions," one Asia-based analyst, said. "One for customers who want it principally as a music and video device, which will be similar to the existing model, one for people who want to communicate - with the keyboard, and one for people who want it as a substitute for their laptop - that will let them browse the internet on a larger screen."

The new phone may also usher in a change in the way Apple strikes distrtibution deals.... Apple will eventually break with its policy of favouring one network to be the exclusive distributor of the iPhone in a given territory possibly as early as next year.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3770932.ece



RE: 3G iPhone Details: 'Radically Different,' May Have Keyboard
Rastick @ 4/20/2008 5:15:30 PM # Q
Apple are only partway into their current carrier deals, so they are stuck with them unless a major carrier revolt ensues, as we've partly seen in Europe with what has been called an "iPhone fire sale" to deal with tepid sales over there.

Volumes are tricky to forecast as most potential users of iPhones probably already have one. This was an important reason for the lousy iPhone sales in Europe, as a lot of the Apple fanboys picked up hacked US models instead of waiting for local carriers to stock them.

RE: 'must have' Palm Apps
weetristan @ 4/20/2008 5:15:55 PM # Q
I'd have to include SplashShopper, SplashID, Datebk6, Chess Tiger (great little chess program!), E-Reader, other dictionaries like BDictionary and Slovo-Ed, and even Vindigo, among the Palm apps I'd hate to lose in a transition to an iPhone.

RE: 3G iPhone Details: 'Radically Different,' May Have Keyboard
bhartman34 @ 4/21/2008 8:46:42 AM # Q
I'd have to include SplashShopper, SplashID, Datebk6, Chess Tiger (great little chess program!), E-Reader, other dictionaries like BDictionary and Slovo-Ed, and even Vindigo, among the Palm apps I'd hate to lose in a transition to an iPhone.

Unless the SDK changes significantly, you're not going to see Datebk6 on the iPhone. The calendar functions are locked down, and the SDK doesn't let you run programs in the background. I don't see anything preventing those other programs from making the transition, though.

Reply to this comment

so I'm reading CNN.com...

Gekko @ 8/27/2008 7:12:35 AM # Q

Murderdrome's most energetic defense was posted by blogger Mike Cane, who rattled off (with live links) several equally violent works of fiction published without fuss or warning on the iTunes store, including South Park, Reservoir Dogs and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/08/27/apple-bans-a-comic-book-firestorm-ensues/



RE: so I'm reading CNN.com...
mikecane @ 8/27/2008 9:39:00 AM # Q
Yeah, WSJ also linked to me.

I warned Apple at the end of my post: Don't upset us writers!

You think they got the message now?

RE: so I'm reading CNN.com...
Gekko @ 8/27/2008 10:08:07 AM # Q

Mike Cane: Enema of the State

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzl0PzPiK0



RE: so I'm reading CNN.com...
mikecane @ 8/27/2008 11:07:56 AM # Q
Also enema of Apple now too, I suppose!

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