Discussion: How Good is the m505's Screen?
It doesn't seem like a difficult question: "How Good is the m505's Screen?" But it doesn't appear to have a simple answer. Reviews of the device have been trickling out and all of them say the screen is either awesome or dismal. Which is it?
MSNBC compared the screen to that of a GameBoy Color and said it was dim even with the backlight on. But NewsBytes described the screen as "vivid". They can't both be correct.
PalmStation tried to answer this question by posting some pictures of a side-by-side comparison of an m505 and a IIIc taken under various conditions. Unfortunately, the shots taken indoors appear to have been taken with a flash, which totally skews the results.
Until now, one of most frequent complaints about color Palms is that they are unusable outside because the colors get washed out by the Sun. The m505 appears to have turned this problem on its ear. Most evidence seem to point to the m505 looking great outside and it is inside where the trouble starts.
Palm's own Knowledge Finder has a page with the slightly ominous title "Information on why the display on the m505 is not as bright as the display on a Palm IIIc" which says, in part:
-
The Palm m505 uses a reflective screen, which greatly enhances its ability to be viewed in direct sunlight conditions. In fact, the greater the ambient lighting, the better the viewing experience.
If it is necessary to keep the front light on whenever using the handheld indoors, how much is this going to affect battery life? Palm's Knowledge Finder only says that "The average user can expect approximately 3 weeks of use from a fully charged device."
No where does it explain how many hours a day is assumed in that approximation. The NewsBytes article mentioned earlier says that the m505's screen, "contrary to some reports, does not drain the batteries unduly." Whether this means with backlight on or off is just another thing that isn't clear.
It is possible that the answer to this question will always depend on whom you ask. Possibly, the screen will never satisfy users with very high expectations but will make the average user happy. We won't know until the m505 is shipping and thousands are able to judge for themselves.
If you have held an m505 in your hands, please chime in with an opinion on the screen. Also welcome are links to other reviews that mention the screen. -Ed
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RE: hmmm
RE: hmmm
RE: hmmm
OT: m500 Replacements
They said at PalmSource they wouldn't add built-in BlueTooth until next year but they might change their minds. They could release a 320x320 model. Certainly enough people are clamoring for one.
But something tells me the NewsBytes reporter may have misinterpreted something a Palm rep said. Palm is going to release a whole new generation of devices in a year. This change is going to be so profound that all current Palm models are going to be obsolete except to people who want a cheap, bare-bones PDA.
A nonARM-based m500 upgrade , if any, wouldn't be released within six months of the release of the m500 series. I can't imagine Palm spending a lot of R&D money to make a model that will be obsolete in just a few months. Heck, there are people now who are saying they aren't buying an m500/m505 because these new models are coming in a year.
Still, I'm curious about what functions people would like added to the m500 series that doesn't involve changing to OS 5. This eliminates changing the screen resolution in any way besides pixel doubling, I believe.
p.s. The humor of us already discussing Palm's next model when the latest ones haven't even been released yet hasn't escaped me.
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: hmmm
Think about this. The m505 I think will be a stunning success. All accounts so far point to that. The only threat is Pocket PC.
However, yesterday in Manhattan I was in three different retailers: CompUSA, J&R and Staples. All three had Palms and PPCs. In all three, I witnessed people buying *Palms*. Yes -- saturation point has not yet been reached, it seems (though I had expected it to).
Palm is going to look at their sales numbers this year (which, although down due to fear of recession, will still be gangbusters), and decide to squeeze some more milk out of this cash cow. They might even feel some pressure from Sony (who, if they do come to the US game, will do so late).
So, I would expect Palm to diddle with increased screen rez (thanks, Sony!) and SD doodads, instead of moving towards replacing their current base.
If they do decide to ship an ARMed unit, it will most likely be offered via web sales only as a "limited" item in order to get it into the hands of the very saavy -- as well as programmers who can port their work over.
Clip and save.
RE: hmmm
What we may see is the features of M505 being quickly pushed down to the M300 / Palm III series level with the ARM-based unit taking over the m505 series.
As usual with Palm, this will probably not be a wholesale migration at first (witness the m105 still retaining the old connector despite being released so close to the m505) with the Dragonball and ARM-based unit coexisting - perhaps Dragonball unit marketted for personal use with corporate users steered towards the ARM units.
RE: hmmm
Screen
RE: Screen
RE: Screen
m505 at Game Developers Conference
Initial, I was not impressed. The screen was not as bright as, say, an iPaq. It is, however, not as poor as a GameBoy. (By the way, I own neither an iPaq or a GameBoy -- I am going by my fleeting experience with them at various stores).
Upon spending more time with the m505, though I found that this screen is superior to the Palm V screen in several ways. In addition to being color, it is usable in more lighting conditions than a Palm V screen. In low office lighting conditions (i.e. the lights at GDC were dim compared to a normal offices), the screen is usable without a backlight but the colors appears somewhat drab (akin to GameBoy).
With a backlight, the colors stand out well - not as vibrant as a laptop TFT, mind you - but it looks nice when viewed straight-on. In the same lighting conditions, a Palm V with a backlight would appear as a gray-green mush.
I did not get a chance to see the screen in sunlight, but from what I saw, it appears that the sunlit screenshot on PalmStation is probably acurate.
In short, I think this color screen has a high 'usability' factor, and a low 'glitz' factor.
RE: m505 at Game Developers Conference
RE: m505 at Game Developers Conference
"Palm had both the m500 and m505 on display and to use. Both were very impressive. The m500 is a Vx with a SD slot - it felt the same size, looked similiar, but had a better, more readable screen.
The m505 is stunning, distinguiable from it's sibling by the metal buttons, it IS thicker than the 500/Vx but not so you would notice. The display is great and under the bright Show lights was much clearer and brighter than the IIIc, and the screen is lit from either side."
This is very encouraging but still begs the question of how the 505 will look in less well lit environments where most of us will use our Palms the majority of the time.
RE: m505 at Game Developers Conference
The backlight has a major problem. On a IIIc, the whole image is evenly lit. On the 505, the light comes from the bottom and dims as it runs up the screen. Its like holding a flashlight at the bottom of a piece of paper. If the light was evenly distributed, it would be ok (though still flat colorwise). They should have had a light on both ends.
So, if you are choosing between a IIIc and 505, it depends on what you want. The IIIc has a much better display, but is almost unreadable in sunlight. The 505 looks fine outdoors (with muted colors) and is much smaller in size.
I was planning on upgrading to the 505, but after seeing the screen, I've decided to wait. The smaller size and expansion slot are not enough reason to upgrade at this time when I have to sacrifice on screen quality.
RE: m505 at Game Developers Conference
http://www.geekvortex.f2s.com/articles/m505.html
This may not be the brightest out there, but far from the dog many people imply they've. Also not, the unit is marked as a M505, which I haven't seen on other pictures.
RE: m505 at Game Developers Conference
I found the M505 screen to be adequate and the overall design and strategy for doing what they did to be sound. I was a bit suprised that their "USB" support doesn't use a standard USB connection (lets re-invent the wheel) on the device and that nothing had been done to improve sound quality.
MSNBC is partly owned by Microsoft
RE: MSNBC is partly owned by Microsoft
Eric
RE: MSNBC is partly owned by Microsoft
released. Creative and Diamond Multimedia released several nearly identical products, yet Diamond
consistently received higher ratings from CNet. Why?.... Simply because the Cnet graphics product
reviewer was feuding with the Creative Graphics Product Manager.
The same thing happened with a few of the magazines, like PC World. They gave lower reviews
because Creative would not sign long term advertising contracts while Diamond did.
So, take the media's opinion with a grain of salt. They will always claim objectivity, but if you dig
deep enough you will discover where their paychecks are really coming from. :)
RE: MSNBC is partly owned by Microsoft
Same technology as colour SONY Clie?
Black Grid?
RE: Black Grid?
RE: Black Grid?
RE: Black Grid?
Eric
RE: Black Grid?
Take a peek at a color GameBoy or a Compaq iPaq Pocket PC - both use reflective screens and neither show the dreaded black grid (while other small backlit systems - such as the old Lynx - do show a grid). Being a reflective screen makes all the difference.
Reflective + Backlight?
RE: Reflective + Backlight?
Why is the display on my m505 is not as bright as the display on a Palm IIIc?
The display on the m505 utilizes a new technology in color screen display. Previous displays, like the Palm IIIc, use a transflective display technology (much like that on previous Palm models). The Palm m505 uses a reflective screen, which greatly enhances its ability to be viewed in direct sunlight conditions. In fact, the greater the ambient lighting, the better the viewing experience.
Can I increase the brightness of the display on the m505?
The display is equipped with a "front light" that is activated when the power button is held down for 2 seconds.
What is a front light?
A front light is similar to the backlight in other Palm handhelds. Its purpose is to enhance the screen in low light conditions. Instead of the illuminating the screen from behind the display like a backlight, it provides direct light to the front of the screen.
Why does the m505 have a front light instead of a backlight?
The m505 display is reflective and therefore requires direct light onto the screen in order to view the display.
The m505 manual only mentions a backlight. Is this a mistake?
No. The manual supplied on the CD that came with your m505 is used for both the m500 and the m505. In order to simplify the instructions, only the term backlight was used. The m500 is equipped with a backlight.
I would also recommend to anyone interested in the fine details of the m505 to check out the FAQ and to download the User's Guide and Quick Start Guide from Palm's support area (both in PDF format). Though they won't answer some of questions, it might cover quite a few.
Palm m505 Handbook (2.77MB PDF - Note: Very Large!)
http://www.palm.com/support/handbooks/m500series_ug.pdf
Palm m505 Getting Started Guide (530KB PDF)
http://www.palm.com/support/handbooks/m500series_gsg.pdf
Pic from palmstation
RE: Pic from palmstation
As it appears now, it was a Filipino Palm user group who reviewed the m500 and m505. Also, the points made about "no black grid" and the "20 mins" are untrue.
It's too bad having people telling lies like that alongside others who produce legitimate info. And only to get a rather dubious notoriety! Get a life!
RE: Pic from palmstation
More pictures here...
http://images.palmstation.com/m505
There is also a much better quality photo here:
http://www.vg.no/bilder/bildarkiv/985210802.jpg
Palm m505 comparison review
[ No Subject ]
WSJ: Dim, Dark, and Dull
BUT THERE IS ONE big problem with Palm's new "m" series: the screen on the color model, the m505. It's so dim, dark and dull that I can't recommend spending the extra $50 to get it. At some angles, it's tough to tell the screen is even in color. And even with the backlight on, which helps a lot but eats battery power, the m505's screen looks pallid and weak compared with the color displays on Handspring's Visor Prism or Compaq's iPAQ Pocket PC.
Palm says the m505 screen is based on cutting-edge color technology, and concedes it could have been much brighter. But Palm engineers deliberately dialed back the brightness to achieve great battery life. Palm still calls the result "brilliant color." I call it barely color. I agree that brightness must be balanced against battery life, but I think Palm went too far and should have at least included a control allowing users to brighten it.
http://public.wsj.com/sn/y/SB985820207334432467.html
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: WSJ: Dim, Dark, and Dull
RE: WSJ: Dim, Dark, and Dull
> between production, pre-production and
> prototype units, and which unit is a reviewer
> looking at.
I've been considering this myself. I am still trying to figure out why the reviews vary so widely. Maybe Palm is testing the waters to see how people react to the screen set on different brightness levels. If this is true and anyone from palm is listening, WE WANT THE BRIGHTER SCREEN, even if it means sacrificing battery life.
---
Plenipotentiary
Palm Infocenter
RE: WSJ: Dim, Dark, and Dull
Dont worry' when you see the screen your seld you will like it
m505 vs. Palm Vx clarity?
1) I realize the screen will NOT be nearly as bright as my Palm IIIc, we just have to resign ourselves to this as technology to produce ultra bright reflective TFTs just isn't there yet.
2) I realize the screen has the huge advantage of being 100% useable in bright sunlight.
3)I realize this is the smallest color Palm or handheld in existance and that is THE BIG SELLING POINT.
BUT I have this question:
1) In indoor lighting (from bright offices to dim homes) how does the readability or clarity of the Palm m505 compare with the Palm V/Vx with and without the backlight on. I know the colors will wash out and may make the machine look almost B&W without the backlighting (frontlighting really) turned on but for readability of text etc. is it equal to the Palm Vx?
If so I am sold... I want my Palm V... with color. :-)
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hmmm
"Plans call for other machines in the M5xx series to ship later in the year."
That's interesting...