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Sony Cuts S-Series Clie Prices

In a week of price cuts and rumors, Sony has again lowered prices across the board on it's s-series handhelds. SonyStyle now lists the color, 16MB SJ30 for $219 USD.

Sony SJ30The SJ20 has been reduced to $149, down from $199, and the SL10 is now $129. SonyStyle is offering a free shipping promotion on all Clie handhelds for a limited time period. Sony does not give reasons for price cuts.

Earlier the T665 price was reduced by $50, bringing it down to $299. The t665 is now listed as "Temporarily out of stock" when added to a shopping cart. Also last week, The FCC's website leaked a picture of what may be a possible t665 replacement.

In late January Sony released the SJ33 in Japan and Hong Kong. The SJ 33 features, a integrated translucent flip cover, new button designs and an mp3 player. It runs Palm OS 4.1 with the Dragonball Super VZ 66MHz, and has an increased battery life.

There are also rumors of a upcoming SJ22 a less expensive device with a color screen, but without a mp3 player.

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Great price, great unit

djpedro @ 2/7/2003 11:05:32 AM #
At ~$200, the SJ-30 is a lot for the money. You get Hi-Res, Color and 16MB of ram in a nice little form factor.
While I'm quite happy with the Tungsten, this is probably the best priced PalmOS PDA out there.
I think that this is a market that should grow with time: the people who want a nicely featured PDA, but who don't need all the bells and whistles on the higher end machines.

RE: Great price, great unit
graph @ 2/7/2003 11:29:01 AM #
$219 is insane! i got my m505 for $449 before!

RE: Great price, great unit
UZI4U182 @ 2/7/2003 11:53:32 AM #
yeah, i bought my sj30 for $300 whenit first came out

--Devan-- | Email me:
UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.devanstavern.tk
www.devandeshong.tk
Current PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30
RE: Great price, great unit
Altema @ 2/7/2003 12:23:55 PM #
Great, now I'm indecisive! My son wants an M130, but for a few bucks more he could get this... Deal breaker is if Palm is no longer offering the free keyboard.

RE: Great price, great unit
carguy @ 2/7/2003 2:05:30 PM #
This might help you make a decision. BestBuy has a $50 coupon for PDAs over $200 (it's on their homepage). The SJ30 is going for $220 on BestBuy's site. This makes the final cost $170.

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 2:12:24 PM #
Altema @ 2/7/2003 12:23:55 PM
Great, now I'm indecisive! My son wants an M130, but for a few bucks more he could get this... Deal breaker is if Palm is no longer offering the free keyboard.
--------

with little bit more money for Dell X5, your son can listen to MP3, play nintendo, watch short movie and have replacable battery and cheap CF slot for long term investment.

RE: Great price, great unit
Gekko @ 2/7/2003 2:20:42 PM #
$219-$170 is a friggin bargain for this device. And to think I paid $499 for my TT.

RE: Great price, great unit
GenericMan @ 2/7/2003 2:24:43 PM #
The BestBuy coupon offer doesn't apply directly. If you buy the Clie for $220, you will get a coupon for $50 to use on your next order. That means that the Clie still costs $220 up front.

Still, especially with free shipping, that's a damn good deal.

RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 3:30:53 PM #
"with little bit more money for Dell X5, your son can listen to MP3, play nintendo, watch short movie and have replacable battery and cheap CF slot for long term investment."

Oh quit your PPC slander. This is even cheaper than an Axim. The Axim is really $250 with a $50 rebate, which I'm not sure is even valid anymore. Rebates really don't count, either.

This is a great device for such a small amount of money. I think it's absolutely GREAT the TT is at $399, and all Sonys are dropping across the board. We have PPC fanatics running wild all over the place!

Year of the Palm.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 3:49:33 PM #
The Axim X5 is absolutely overpriced at $250 before various rebate compared to SJ30 at $219. SJ30 is excellent it has 16MB, reflective 2.5 inch screen, 33mhz CPU, and memory stick. SJ30 is so great that it doesn't need folding keyboard or replacable battery to enhance functionality contrast to X5.
RE: Great price, great unit
Lucky Bob @ 2/7/2003 4:00:00 PM #
"with little bit more money for Dell X5, your son can listen to MP3, play nintendo, watch short movie and have replacable battery and cheap CF slot for long term investment."

The SJ30 does have a Memory Stick slot for expansion, and it seems to have a replaceable battery.

I don't think you should choose one over the other simply because one can play nintendo. I've tried it, and it's cool, but...

If your son will use it for school, there are many FREE Palm OS programs out there that can help. I use a homework organizer (Due Yesterday), a period table, an english dictionary, a french dictionary, etc...

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 4:04:19 PM #
Buddy, 33 MHz on Palm OS is faster than 300 MHz on a non-optimized X-Scale PPC. 16 MB on Palm OS gets you A LOT farther than 32 MB on PPC, and that somewhat smaller transreflective screen is at a higher resolution and is incredibly readable.

The SJ30 is also LOADS more compact than the Axim, which is a total brick, in all three dimensions.

Quit your PPC slander. It is totally useless now.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 4:20:11 PM #
is it faster than 300mhz overclocked to 400mhz too? I am in awe. how about 400mhz oc'ed to 500mhz? I bet it's faster than the space shuttle too.
RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 4:25:03 PM #
If you want to talk about overclocking, the SJ30 can reach 66 MHz, and yes, 66 MHz on Palm OS beats out a non-optimized 400 MHz on PPC, probably even that 500 MHz number. It's not optimized, so that number can get jacked up and it still won't matter.

You remind me a little too much of Ska, so that'll be your new name, Ska. Ska, let's compare the Axim to the SJ30.

SJ30 is faster (conversion), has more memory (conversion), and is cheaper (no conversion necessary). It's lighter and smaller. It has a higher resolution screen. It has more programs available for it.

Axim has a bigger screen, has two expansion slots, more multimedia..... and that's it.

Come on now, PPC has little over Palm OS now. These prices are dropping like flies, and Palm OS has a lot of gread advantages. Let's not argue this anymore.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 4:48:02 PM #
How do you propose to test these two PDA speed? Glue them under F16 wing or just toss them from tall building? Because that's the only way SJ30 can be faster than X5.
RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 6:09:25 PM #
#1, You ARE Ska.

#2, The Axim is NOT faster than the SJ30. Idiots love those high MHz numbers of PPC's, but until they realize their beloved MHz numbers mean nothing if it's not optimized, they fly high. 33 MHz on Palm OS executes applications and data faster than 300 MHz on a PPC. And don't get me started about overclocking. 66 MHz is way faster than anything in the PPC realm. Oh, and if you want to go on to 200 MHz NX Clies, you're in for a world of hurt. There's a reason why nobody brings up MHz numbers for PPC when comparing to Palm OS anymore.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
UZI4U182 @ 2/7/2003 6:16:15 PM #
yeah, SKA, my SJ30 is really blazin' since I downloaded FastCPU :) (66MHz)

--Devan-- | Email me:
UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.devanstavern.tk
www.devandeshong.tk
Current PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30
RE: Great price, great unit
Gekko @ 2/7/2003 6:49:35 PM #
Looks like Bosco really missed you.

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 7:13:24 PM #
1. I can play ska or whoever else if you want me to.
2. my question was: How do you propose one should measure that 66mhz is faster than 300/400/500mhz? I am asking your expert technical opinion as a TRUE ~handheld analyst.
RE: Great price, great unit
gfunkmagic @ 2/7/2003 7:16:45 PM #
Quote:
"the SJ30 can reach 66 MHz, and yes, 66 MHz on Palm OS beats out a non-optimized 400 MHz on PPC, probably even that 500 MHz number. It's not optimized, so that number can get jacked up and it still won't matter."

Abosco, you've going off the deep end lately! Plaese stop embarrassing all us PalmOS users with this drivel. Proclaiming the supremeacy of that ancient Dragonball over the X-scale processor is ridiculous. IF it were up to you, PalmSG would never upgrade their hardware, sheesh...

RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 9:13:44 PM #
Gfunk, you're always trying to refute or top what I say. I don't know why, but I wish you'd stop as it's really idiotic half the time.

Ska, you CAN'T test out the two, you just have to hold them next to each other and test out how they execute similar tasks. There's no honest way you can say the 400 MHz PPC feels faster than a 66 MHz Palm.

Now Gfunk, do you suggest we stick a 400 MHz processor into everything, no matter if it's optimized or not? If that's what you want, you're looking into the PPC spectrum. And if you haven't realized this, the only one that is being "embarassed" is ska, and it's nothing new, as he's got total drivel.

Listen, I think me and you (Gfunk) have such varying opinions because you discuss something that's worth the dollar a product that has a lot of multimedia for a small price. That's NOT what I consider, as I try to think in layman terms, not poweruser terms. If you always think as the poweruser, it may all make sense to you, but you're wrong in almost everything. Yeah, the Ferrari's a great car because it's got an awesome engine and a killer design... so who in God's name would want a Civic? Even Mercedes look like crap compared to this thing. Do you *finally* see what I mean?

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/7/2003 9:21:49 PM #
I just remembered something:

"Proclaiming the supremeacy of that ancient Dragonball over the X-scale processor is ridiculous."

I'm not. I'm proclaiming the supremacy of the Dragonball on Palm OS over the X-Scale of PPC. The X-Scale kills the Dragonball when they're both on Palm OS, but since PPC is not optimized for X-Scale, it's like a Dragonball.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Gekko @ 2/7/2003 9:28:02 PM #
Lots of new Tungsten T's on ebay fpr ~$370. Looks like same seller. Must have bought a whole overstock from somewhere??

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 9:40:05 PM #
Is it the CPU that is slower? (Xscale at 400mhz is slower than 33mHz dragonball) Or is it the OS that is slower compared to Palm OS?
RE: Great price, great unit
sr @ 2/7/2003 11:39:22 PM #
He's talking "user experience" faster - launching different applications, switching between applications, etc. PPC is simply slower there despite the 500 MHz since

a) the PocketPC OS is not optimized for XScale
b) the PocketPC OS is a more modern OS, with all the baggage and overhead that comes with that territory

How do you test that? Take both in your hands and see how fast the calendar appears when you press the Calendar/Date book button. Simple as pie.

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/7/2003 11:47:12 PM #
Pressing calender. It's roughly .3s, how fast is yours? (Do you even know what you are talking about? Or is this some mythical X5 that need 5 minutes to react at 500mHz and open calender apps, while SJ30 instanteneously pop open?)
RE: Great price, great unit
sr @ 2/8/2003 1:21:35 AM #
Yeap, it's definitely Ska. Btw, Palm reacts imperceptibly (i.e. less than 0.3 s), which is the point.
RE: Great price, great unit
xolstis @ 2/8/2003 1:59:19 AM #
trilo, bugger off, there is no way ur comparing a Palm to a PPC in terms of megahertz go back to whichever PPC forum u come frm and even they will tell you that. I am not sure about aboscos talk on optimized and non-optimized Xscale on the PPC issues are and I warrant they are true but even looking at the programs will tell u enough. PPC programs run in megs and palm programs runs in KBs, common sense tells us that its takes less processing power to execute a 200KB program compared to executing a 4MB program both of which does the same thing.

-the harbinger-
RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/8/2003 2:49:34 AM #
My common sense says: 0.2^10! will take more CPU power than 200KB command containing 1+1....+1, but I could be wrong.
RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/8/2003 12:11:40 PM #
Common sense says that even people at PPCT don't brag about MHz anymore. They know the sorry excuse of why their 400 MHz X-Scale PPC's perform like a 206 MHz StrongARM and how the 66 MHz DragonBall Super VZ blows by everything in the PPC class. Now, if you want to get into the 200 MHz processor of the NX against the 400 MHz processor of the iPaq, be my guest. I know when you were first here back in October you bravely tried to defend that by saying there was no proof the 200 MHz NX would be faster, despite the overwhelming evidence against you, and guess what? I was right all along. It's not even comparable.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/8/2003 2:46:29 PM #
The last comment about bringing up common sense to measure processor speed difference based on poll is incredibally ludricrous. It is as if it was written by a highschooler crank. Poll is not a definite measure of physical quantity, only impression, a qualitative measure at best. (Which incidentally you have not include the link to which site and what poll)

If "everything", ie all class of apps, is used as broad indicator of processor speed, then clearly from various title out there Dragonball is not as powerfull as ARM (PPC class).

I have no idea what obscure conversation you have with some other nut crackers regarding 200 mHz Xscale is faster than 400 mHz. But all current PPC benchmark indicates 400mHz Xscale runs faster than 200mHz.

regardless, there is currently no apps yet to compare whole system performance numerically between Palm OS and PPC. And the user impression someone brought up as an indicator only applies to very small class of apps. There are far larger type of apps that cannot even run on dragonball but breeze on ARM, which "common sense" dictates that ARM processor are more capable, hence by default faster overall.

Now on to OS part.


RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/8/2003 9:59:37 PM #
You are the ONLY person EVER to say that the 400 MHz X-Scale processor on PPC is faster than the 200 MHz X-Scale processor on Palm OS. Not even Ed H or anybody at PPCT refuted that. You STILL don't understand that PPC's MHz numbers don't matter?

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/8/2003 11:11:42 PM #
As a simple example, If indeed what you say is right, what is the speed of a Palm OS unit running a Pi calculation? A 200mHz PPC finishes at 1159ms while 400mHz finish at 656ms or almost twice as fast. Does Sony NX70 runs as fast as PentiumII 300mHz in that chart? from what you claim it seems very likely. (or maybe not)

http://www.neutrio.com/wince/PiCalc/picalc.html

RE: Great price, great unit
cypher76 @ 2/8/2003 11:50:22 PM #
I've been reading through this thread...its amusing to see how 'trilobyte' has run out of logical arguments. Yes, I base my PDA purchasing on how fast Fong Chee Keat's program to calculate PI to x number of digits runs! Seriously though, I doubt that you don't understand the discussion here. But just in case you actually aren't a troll, the clearest example that came to mind was the difference between AMD AthlonXP and Intel Pentium IV processors. Athlon : PalmOS :: Pentium : PocketPC. The Athlon at a lower MHz typically outperforms a Pentium4 at a higher MHz. See here for details: http://www.cyberbreakcafe.com/jpj_computers/cpuvscpu.htm This is just another example of how raw MHz numbers do not matter in the computing world. There are many other factors, and in this case, the primary factor is the operating system. PalmOS on a 200MHz Xscale outperforms PPC on a 400MHz Xscale...either admit you're wrong, or stop spamming these boards with your faulty logic.
RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/9/2003 12:21:28 AM #
Alright, now I KNOW you have seen the speed tests that were done between the OMAP1510 processor and the 400 MHz X-Scale both running on Windows CE. The OMAP absolutely demolished the X-Scale. Now, according to HotPaw's YCPUBench benchmarking program, the NX is faster than the TT in the tests. So, one can logically deduct that the NX70v running a 200 MHz processor on Palm OS 5 that is optimized for X-Scale is faster than any PPC running a 400 MHz processor on PPC2002 that is not optimized for X-Scale. Don't deny that you remember the OMAP and X-Scale test. I know you do.

Understand now???

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/9/2003 9:54:14 AM #
abosco @ 2/9/2003 12:21:28 AM
Alright, now I KNOW you have seen the speed tests that were done between the OMAP1510 processor and the 400 MHz X-Scale both running on Windows CE. The OMAP absolutely demolished the X-Scale.
---------

There is no CE running on 1510 in the market, let alone published benchmark, (or if you have some link to post for the benefit of the public.) And strangely enough, the next paragraph that statement is contradicted with assertion that NX/Xscale is faster than OMAP running same OS. (FYI, Both OS only use ARM V4.1 code in regard to optimized/not optimized)

Also isn't it surprising how Pi calculation, tho' admitedly not a whole system benchmarking, is dismissed as complete nonsense as a reasonable CPU calculation speed while handwaving argument about non existence polling and never measured "user impression" are deemed valid. But strangely nobody has been able to translate these into reasonable numerical value.

-Which processor is faster?
-Which system perform faster and under what circumstances?

post number, not knotted logic or fantastic claims.

The problem with the X5 isn't CPU speed, it's memory.
quengho @ 2/9/2003 1:55:12 PM #
For everything but multimedia applications, just about any 32-bit RISC running over 100 MHz will be adequate for the Pocket PC OS. The Aero's 70 MHz CPU was a bit sluggish, but my Jornada 548 was fine at 133 MHz for all but multimedia apps that really need a fast CPU.

Where my Jornada, and the new Axim, fall down is RAM.

A Pocket PC with 32M will have about 25-28M free after boot. Of that, it needs at least 16M for running programs. By default, it splits free memory between programs and storage, which gives you 16M on a bare machine, but once you start loading programs into it that goes down fast.

Once you start running low on memory, it gets really slow to open new files or start new applications. My Jornada 548 would go from a few seconds to 30 seconds or more (I generally gave up and hit reset beyond that point, and once I waited a minute before the spinner went away) if it was low on RAM. PalmOS doesn't have this problem, because it only gives the active application access to the heap... everything else has to be satisfied with what it can fit on the stack when an event comes in (timer, locate, what have you). so there's no ongoing memory leak as applications start up and then go to the background.

So in your Axim X5, you'll have about 10M of that 32M available for actually storing programs and files. You can use the dual slots to add files, but you don't want to add programs there. Again, because it's got conventional multitasking, any DLL or executable on that card is likely to be "live", and because the OS pages files in rather than loading them all at once, it may need to access that at any time.

If you've popped that memory card out to look at something else, and it tries to page something in, it's reset time. Hard-reset sometimes, as I found out on my Jornada.

So... if you're getting a Pocket PC, get one with 64M, and preferably one that gives you ALL of that 64M to play with... the Viewsonic and the iPaq h1910 have slow ROMs and copy 20-30M from ROM to RAM on boot, using up almost half the 64M available.

The high-end Axim with 64M looks pretty decent, but it's not the $250 usint.

RE: Great price, great unit
abosco @ 2/9/2003 1:59:36 PM #
I'm positive you saw the CE test. It wasn't on a marketed device, I just remember the stuck the OMAP1510 and the 400 MHz X-Scale on Windows CE and the OMAP blew by the X-Scale. I'm sure you remember this but are just afraid to say so.

Ska, you just went back to this whole "post number" idiocy you've stated since you first got here. Post number, post number! Don't you understand that it isn't the number that really counts but how fast you can get to your critical data and files? Palm OS does this faster, and with the new ARM units, I can squeeze out all the FPS I want out of games and video.

That Pi calculation software you pointed to can't be put on an NX you dope. It's not in .prc format.

Alright, to show you that you're nuts, go over to PPCT, PDABuzz, BH, ANYWHERE and ask which is faster, the NX70v at 200 MHz on Palm OS 5 or the iPaq 3955 at 400 MHz on PPC2002. No PPC owner is proud of their X-Scale situation. Are people whining to get rid of the X-Scale bottleneck when in fact there really IS no bottleneck and it's all just their imagination because ska says so?

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: Great price, great unit
Trilobyte @ 2/9/2003 3:10:30 PM #
yet another fantastic claim and non existance proof. (Do those even convince yourself?)
Lets put them to the test...
TDS Computer @ 2/9/2003 3:10:58 PM #
Wow, you guys are getting nasty!
I am a tried-and-True Palm OS user, not a PPC user, but I don't necessarily agree that the Palm processor is faster. I propose a real world test.
Running a spell check on Wordsmith takes forever and a day on my 33 Mhz Treo 90. Lets find somebody with a PPC running at 200 Mhz and a Palm OS running at 33 Mhz and clock the spelling checker on a 1000 word document. My money is on the PPC for winning this test, but I really don't know...
Does that sound like a fair "real world" test?

Visit us at www.tdscomputer.com
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