MobileInfocenter

Treo 650 Named Best Converged Device

Strategy Analytics, a global research and consulting company, today released, "Blackberry Learning Curve Too Steep for Consumers as Palm Treo Sets New Usability Standard," its latest converged device benchmark report, which concludes that the Palm Treo 650 is the highest rated converged device in the USA, narrowly edging the Samsung i730 into second place and also beating the UTStarcom PPC6600 and Blackberry 7100. These results come from hands-on consumer testing by the Strategy Analytics Advanced Wireless User Panel.

The Palm Treo 650 achieved "Best in Class" status based upon superior menu systems and UI, display, style and design. Despite scoring highly for applications, the Samsung i730 was too large and too heavy to win over users. The UTStarcom PPC6600 also faired well for applications but was lacking in style and design. Participants struggled with the Blackberry 7100's steep out-of-the- box learning curve.

In terms of software applications, the i730 outscored the PalmOne Treo 650 by 3 points. "The Samsung i730 wins praise for its features and Windows access, but loses out to the Treo 650 in the Style/Design category," according to David Kerr, Vice-President of the Strategy Analytics Global Wireless Practice.

Kevin Nolan, Director of the Advanced Wireless Laboratory at Strategy Analytics, added, "Clearly the Treo's distinct advantage is in its small form factor, even for converged device buyers."

Article Comments

 (36 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

Who paid for this report?

SeldomVisitor @ 11/17/2005 3:38:04 PM # Q
From SA's website:

== "...Primary or qualitative research reports that provide
== analysis and action points from Strategy analytic's perspective
== for your business environment. Topics are often generated on
== the basis of client interest and clients are encouraged to
== regularly feed their thoughts and interests into the report
== generating process..."

RE: Who paid for this report?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 3:43:19 PM # Q
If it wasn't Palm they should ask for their money back! ;)

Nice to see the old chestnut that Palms have the best user experience vindicated once again.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Who paid for this report?
hkklife @ 11/17/2005 3:47:56 PM # Q
I agree. I am NOT a fan of BBs at all but I do think that for your average 50-something clueless management type, they'll adopt to a BB quicker than a Treo "out of the box".

If nothing else, it's easier to use the BB for reading e-mails and making phone calls than it is trying to configure VersaMail. Without a full list of contacts on a Treo, the phone part of the unit loses a lot of its functionality.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Who paid for this report?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 4:02:57 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
I am NOT a fan of BBs at all but I do think that for your average 50-something clueless management type, they'll adopt to a BB quicker than a Treo "out of the box".

Yeah, that's what I'd been told by a colleague of mine whose company implements big device deployments for Fortune 100 companies. Personally, I always found all the infernal clicking you had to do with a BlackBerry to be a PITA, though, and maybe this study captured some of that frustration.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Who paid for this report?
cervezas @ 11/17/2005 4:08:28 PM # Q
it's easier to use the BB for reading e-mails and making phone calls than it is trying to configure VersaMail.

BTW, no one in a company that deploys Treos would ever have to configure any of this themselves. The devices would be completely provisioned with software, configured and managed over the air by an administrator.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Who paid for this report?
hkklife @ 11/17/2005 5:12:38 PM # Q
You've obviously never been present at a "good ol' boy" manufacturing facility here in the south. At a place like that, it's every man for himself technology-wise ;-)

But yes, I find the endless spinning'n clicking maddening and so inefficient on the BBs. Give me a solid stylus, Graffiti 1, and POS anyday!



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

Not convinced....
Masamune @ 11/18/2005 8:36:10 AM # Q
I like th Treo. I really do. Palm OS and a relatively stylish form factor but best convergence device? No.

Use a 9300 sometime. Dead easy to use and bags of style - it's a good alternative for those that prefer Symbian.

Not convinced....
Masamune @ 11/18/2005 8:36:10 AM # Q
I like th Treo. I really do. Palm OS and a relatively stylish form factor but best convergence device? No.

Use a 9300 sometime. Dead easy to use and bags of style - it's a good alternative for those that prefer Symbian.

Reply to this comment

Now, another glowing analyst report

cervezas @ 11/20/2005 3:33:56 PM # Q
Sagio investments has published an analysis that's almost embarrassingly bullish about Palm. Guaranteed to warm the ****les of your heart (but hang on to your head).

http://www.sagioinvest.com/reps/Palm_SAGIO_Research.pdf

Most interesting is the revised more aggressive timeframe for the release of the Treo 700p and the antenna-less "Hollywood" version of the Treo:

We know that PALM will introduce four new models in CY 06. In January they will introduce the already announced Treo 700 Windows which will be a Verizon exclusivity it will be the first EV-DO Treo on the market .Around the same time we believe PALM will launch a Treo 700p running PALM OS on the Sprint network, both devices will keep same form factor and will capitalize on the Treo strong foothold in the US enterprise Market. We also learned that PALM will be launching two new products around March 06 codenamed "Hollywood" and "Lowrider". According to the Morgan Stanley analyst in Asia (covers HTC) the estimate production output will be 200K devices/month. "Hollywood" will be a fancier 3G/GSM smartphone which will represent PALM first attempt at the European GSM market. We know the phone will have no external antenna and will probably he launched by Cingular in the US. "Lowrider" will be a sub-$300 devices utilizing previous generation radios and providing PALM with an entry level PDA.

Other highlights:

Palm has increased its share of the US PDA market to 61%, leaving Dell and HP to fight over the scraps on the floor. Palm also picked up market share in the US smartphone market with 31% of the market second only to RIMM (55%). (Windows Mobile and Symbian phones evidently account for less than 14% now on this side of the pond.)

Sagio calls the fact that Palm OS Treos can run any of a number of different push email solutions "one of the most important competitive advantages that PALM has today."

"Our own conservative calculations show that there is a very high chance for PALM to ship over 2.5 mln Smartphones in fiscal 2006 (exhibit 3:4) vs. analyst consensus of approx 2.2mln."

As Palm device shipments grow they are starting to command better deals on components than competitors, making their edge even stronger.

Wow.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 3:59:24 PM # Q
What? I can't write ****les?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
sr4 @ 11/20/2005 4:23:14 PM # Q
PALM had 11% of worldwide market share behind both RIMM (22%) and NOKIA (17%).

They are not using the same numbers as everyone else, are they. The report read like it was written by Dr Opinion. Either way, with Palm using WM I can only wish them well. Interesting that their numbers in Asia (5%) is about the same as Europe (4%). So much for the deeper roots there.

Surur

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 4:27:31 PM # Q
Oh yeah, and how about this tidbit:

...we strongly believe there is a strong analogy between AAPL trading at 7$ post IPOD launch and PALM trading at 27$ post TREO 650 launch. This view is confirmed by a report from Pablo Perez Fernandez citing that Treo sales are outperforming Ipod sales (when adjusted for product intro date obviously).



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
AdamaDBrown @ 11/20/2005 4:57:00 PM # Q
This view is confirmed by a report from Pablo Perez Fernandez citing that Treo sales are outperforming Ipod sales (when adjusted for product intro date obviously).

This sort of statement creates false expectations. It doesn't take into account the fact that the T650 isn't the first Treo, and is really a continuance of the T600. Besides which, the iPod has a far greater brand awareness, a larger audience, and greater marketing hype behind it than the Treos ever will.

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 5:06:11 PM # Q
surer wrote:
Either way, with Palm using WM I can only wish them well.

What, you don't think it will sell well? ;-)

Actually, if Palm releases the EVDO Palm OS Treo on Sprint close to the time the 700w hits the stores as this report now indicates, it could very well be a bit of a problem for the 700w. At the very least, the 700w would not enjoy much time as the only 3G Treo on the market. The recent Forbes piece seemed to agree when they said that Palm's rapid-fire releases next year would "restrain upside projections."

It's really going to be interesting to see how much of the Treo's popularity has to do with hardware and how much is the software.

Too bad the 700w isn't expected to be released for almost a year outside the US, surer. :-p

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
sr4 @ 11/20/2005 5:33:40 PM # Q

Yes, I'm not confident the Treo 700w will do incredibly well. Ive said many times that I think a VERY LARGE part of the Treo's success is from previous Palm users upgrading to a connected solution. They will not upgrade to a WM Treo for the same nostalgic reasons, especially when there's a similar specified Palm unit available.

On the other hand, the Treo brand could also hit a wall soon, when the Palm user base gets saturated. That would be the prediction if my hypothesis is right, ie. a tapering of of sales in 1-2 years, after selling around 10 million Treo's.

Also it appears they intend to strangle to WM device with only 32MB RAM. There will be other similar priced WM devices with better specs to compete with this. Unlike many Palm users, who automatically expect (for some reason) the WM Treo to do very well, I do not.

Surur

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 5:34:04 PM # Q
Interesting that their numbers in Asia (5%) is about the same as Europe (4%).

Can you say "Linux"?

Actually, those really are somewhat strange numbers, aren't they? They seem to cite Palm being in third place behind RIM (#1) and "non-Series 60" Nokia (#2), but it appears that they are still counting Series 60 in the smartphone pool. They're using the Canalys numbers but why count Series 60 in the smartphone denominator if you're going to exclude it from the Nokia numerator?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
Simony @ 11/20/2005 5:48:42 PM # Q
> Also it appears they intend to strangle to WM device with only 32MB RAM.

That would be a disaster. There are reports that WM (like it's earlier incarnations) doesn't use memory as efficiently as Palm OS. One report I saw claimed that a 500kb .doc file on a Palm took up about 1.2mb on a PPC. (Don't quote me on this - it is just something I read elsewhere.) If that's right, 32mb of memory on a WM is not going to go very far.

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 5:49:19 PM # Q
This view is confirmed by a report from Pablo Perez Fernandez citing that Treo sales are outperforming Ipod sales (when adjusted for product intro date obviously).

This sort of statement creates false expectations. It doesn't take into account the fact that the T650 isn't the first Treo, and is really a continuance of the T600. Besides which, the iPod has a far greater brand awareness, a larger audience, and greater marketing hype behind it than the Treos ever will.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here but I do wonder what the methodology is for coming up with a statement like this.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
SeldomVisitor @ 11/20/2005 6:15:18 PM # Q
Sigh - Sagio is a hedge fund that JUST took a position sufficiently large in PALM stock that they had to file an SEC filing about it.

Think they might have a reason to...you know...sound positive about PALM?

Sheesh.

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
sr4 @ 11/20/2005 6:28:20 PM # Q
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1344850/000095012305013878/0000950123-05-013878-index.htm

My God, should such things not be declared in a report distributed to the public?

Surur

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 6:32:54 PM # Q
You're not kidding they took a large position. Here's a very interesting letter from their site:

Sagio Asset Management controlled over 5% of PALM as of last week, making us the 3rd largest shareholder. We are impressed with the operational accomplishments from the last 12 months:

PALM generated $113m in cash from operations in FY05 (May ’05) and $48.5m in FY1Q06 (Aug. ’06). This was a significant improvement compared with the $13m in cash burn from operations in FY04 (May ’04).
Treo shipments increased to 1.2m in FY05 from 340K in FY04 (May ’04).
Treo sell-through grew to 1.1m in FY05 from 311K in FY04.
Pro-forma EPS improved to $1.54 in FY05 from $0.13 in FY04.

Despite clear financial and operational progress, PALM’s stock price has been frustrating, range bound, and not reflective of financial reality or growth potential. At today’s levels, the stock trades at an absurd valuation. Adjusting for PALM’s $411m in cash and investments and $60m in land for sale, PALM’s FY07 P/E is just 8.5x. PALM is trading at a significant discount to peers. For instance, RIMM is trading at 19.4x FY07 EPS. NOK is trading at 17.4x. These comparisons are shocking in light of PALM’s and the smartphone’s industry growth prospects.

We believe that the underperformance of PALM’s stock price can be explained by a lack of understanding of the company’s potential by market participants and by management’s actions. In particular, that management has contributed to the sagging stock price as follows:

Bad communication during earning calls and conferences – The relative timing of the earnings call (Thursday), the Bill Gates press conference (Friday), and the analyst day (Monday) was poorly planned. The last earnings call is a good example of how withholding important information can hurt the stock price. While PALM only guides one quarter at a time, the company should have explained that operating expenses would decline sequentially in February following the sharp ramp in the November quarter.
An excessive cash balance – Given the current state of the business, there is no reason for PALM to keep so much cash in the balance sheet. Total cash and investments equaled $411m as of the last reported quarter. PALM will generate anywhere between $150m to $250m in cash from operations in FY06. Finally, we believe that PALM will be able to fetch $60m from the sale of its land in Silicon Valley. While images of large losses and cash burn are still fresh in the board’s memory, there is no reason why PALM could not use cash generated by operations to fund a quarterly stock buyback program.
Confusion over the tax rate – We believe that analysts are not taking into account PALM’s large NOLs and other deferred tax assets (currently off balance sheet). We believe that the analyst community discounts Palm’s stock price by using fully-taxed EPS (GAAP tax rate of 38% to 40%), while PALM’s cash earnings are over 40% higher (PALM’s effective, cash tax rate is approximately 15%).
Weak management response to fears over PALM’s competitive position – Many investors are overly concerned about competition from large mobile phone vendors like Nokia, Motorola, and Samsung. Palm is the undisputed leader in this space and needs to defend this position assertively.

We believe that CY06 will be a banner year for Palm with the introduction of the Mobile Windows operating system on the Treo. This will enable PALM to compete more effectively in European markets and to extend its market leadership in the USA. The recent alliance with Research in Motion will further enhance Palm competitiveness in the enterprise market, making the Treo the de facto choice for IT departments worldwide. With Palm successfully expanding the Treo from a one-model phenomenon to a four-model line (Treo 700w, Treo 700p, Lowrider, and Hollywood), the potential for EPS expansion could be far greater than implied by consensus estimates.

PALM’s management could further enhance operating margins by aggressively cutting warranty provisions, thereby boosting gross margins. By way of comparison, we note that NOK and RIMM reported warranty-to-sales ratios of 2.6% and 1.8% respectively in their latest annual reports. Both of these are significantly lower than our 6.5% estimate for PALM’s smartphones.

Sagio believes that if PALM’s management fails to execute within a reasonable period of time, the company’s Board of Directors should pursue alternatives such as selling the company to a financial consortium or a key player in the industry able to manage operating costs efficiently, as well as leverage PALM’s technical know-how and brand value.

Gualtiero Giori
Juan Sartori
Alessandro Grande


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 6:42:33 PM # Q
surer wrote:
My God, should such things not be declared in a report distributed to the public?

What do you think an SEC filing is? And what could be more public than the Internet? Did you have to pay to read the filing? Or the letter on their web site?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 6:53:36 PM # Q
You could look at this two ways: now that Sagio is Palm's 3rd largest institutional investor they have an incentive not just to explain their position but to explain it in a very positive, rosy way. And it's important to understand that that dynamic is in play when interpreting analysis like this.

But the other side of the coin is that Sagio is a fund that operates on the philosophy that the small cap market is not efficient and that pockets of value can be discovered through thorough research including personal visits to the companies in question and an intimate understanding of their financial and product outlook. That is, they believe in fundamentals. After performing that kind of analysis on Palm they put their money where their mouth is and bought a huge position in the company. That seems to validate their overall outlook as well as indicate that they probably really know what they're talking about with respect to Palm's product roadmap.

Overall, I don't think you can completely discount this analysis just because of their interest.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
sr4 @ 11/20/2005 7:06:59 PM # Q
David, dont misunderstand me intentionally. Their interest should be declared in the quoted report e.g.

Full Disclosure: We hold a significant share of Palm's stock.

Nothing complicated about that, unless your intention all along is to benefit from the inefficiencies of the market by deceiving people who were not paranoid enough.

Surur

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 7:41:02 PM # Q
I agree, it should have been stated directly on the report. Of course the way you get to the report on their site is from a page that has the following links:

- a letter announcing they are now PALM's 3rd largest shareholder
- a copy of the SEC filing
- the analysis of why they like Palm so much

The last page is the one that attracted my interest initially, but it's not like it's being privileged over the other two pages by Sagio or that they're hiding anything.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Beersy, either you're INCREDIBLY gullible or you're a shill.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/20/2005 9:49:23 PM # Q
Sagio investments has published an analysis that's almost embarrassingly bullish about Palm. Guaranteed to warm the ****les of your heart (but hang on to your head).

http://www.sagioinvest.com/reps/Palm_SAGIO_Research.pdf


Beersy, you should be ashamed of yourself. Yes, I realize that for months you've been desperately trying to make Palm/PalmSource sound like they're healthy, since your income largely depends on their continued existence. Your arguments in favor of Palm/PalmSource have been weak, but quaint. Like a baby trying to take its first steps but continually falling flat on its face.

But for you to now to post a breathless, steaming pile of manure like this "analyst report" merely underscores how full of sh!t you really are. I'd suggest you spend 2 minutes finding out who Sagio Investments is and asking yourself why they might find it in their best interests to release such a ridiculously gushing report. Anyone who says their B.S. detector doesn't go off when reading crap like this "report" is either genuinely retarded or just plain lying.

How disgusting. No doubt you'll find a way to stoop even lower as you try to keep your business alive. Shame on you. I'd suggest you apologize to readers at Palminfocenter for attempting to sucker them with this B.S.

TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/20/2005 10:59:26 PM # Q
Missy, I don't make the news, I just report it. ;)

As a piece of analysis I said that this was pretty suspect even before I noticed Sagio just became Palm's 3rd largest shareholder. What's most interesting, though, is the timeline for the release of the next four Treos--and the fact that they did the homework and took the position in the first place.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

Sex, LIES and B.S.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/20/2005 11:22:59 PM # Q
What's most interesting, though, is the timeline for the release of the next four Treos--and the fact that they did the homework and took the position in the first place.

These people are sharks, Beersy. They have no interest in Palm and are gambling that they can artificially boost the price and sucker some naive company like Oracle into buying Palm out so they can cash out with a quick $20 million profit within 6 - 12 months. Just wait and see what would happen if they ever got themselves a seat on the Palm Board of directors...

How's your .Net sk1llZ, Beersy?

.Net for Dummies will be released in a few months. Preorder now!


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
cervezas @ 11/21/2005 12:25:14 AM # Q
These people are sharks, Beersy. They have no interest in Palm and are gambling that they can artificially boost the price and sucker some naive company like Oracle into buying Palm out so they can cash out with a quick $20 million profit within 6 - 12 months.

Getting pretty "out there," Missy. Here and I thought Gekko was the only one who believed this fantasy that you can get rich manipulating stocks by posting stuff on the Internet. You probably click on those penis enlargement ads in your mail, too, don't you?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
Software Everywhere blog
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
freakout @ 11/21/2005 5:38:45 AM # Q
The Treo-as-potential-iPod thing strikes me as a little too hopeful. One of the killer things about the iPod is its industrial design, and while I love my Treo to bits, it is nowhere near as stylish. One of my favourite things about it is the always-accessible keyboard (essential in a car cradle, for instance), and I don't think full QWERTY keyboards on phones will ever be stylish. They can be attractive, but you can't change a keyboard too much to make it stylish, else it loses its functionality.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that in order for the Treo to be the best "mobile computer" it can be, then minimalistic, stylish interfaces like the iPod's - which is what seems to make it so popular - just won't cut it for mobile data management.

This could change, of course, with the upcoming "Hollywood" model - but I won't want one if it doesn't have an gloriously usable, ugly little keyboard on it.

That said, I sincerely believe the Treo is one of the best gadgets available on the market right now; it can do absolutely anything you want it to, sans 3G. But not only does it have huge versatility, it does lots of things *well* too.

**Firstly, it's an extremely intuitive phone - two or three letters on the keyboard and you can dial anyone you want. Or you can set it to just dial numbers like a normal phone. SMS is a joy to use; the chat-style interface gets top marks for helping to organise the dozens of SMS i get throughout the week. MMS is laughably simple to use, especially compared to "standard" phones.

**It has a simply beautiful screen, especially in comparison to standard phones, and it's readable under direct sunlight. It's as compact as it can be to keep the form factor small, yet it's big enough you can watch movies on it on the train (which never fails to make people look, and also makes me worried I'm about to be mugged ;) )

**It's a pretty good PDA (if you're like me and hate Graffiti, the keyboard makes up for the smaller screen size). You can shoot me down on this one because I've never owned an "actual" PDA and thus have no basis for comparison.

** It has multimedia licked. PocketTunes is a great-sounding and easy to use mp3 player. TCPMP is excellent as well for movies. Sure, these don't actually come on the device, but they're easy to find. And more importantly, they don't crash.

** The SD expansion lots gives you room for as much memory as you want. (Currently only 2GB, but we're being promised 4 and 8GB in the near future) Okay, you have to pay for that, but I'm not looking at the money side here. (Convenient, isn't it? ;) ) I suppose you could say 2GB isn't enough, but 8? How much data do you really want to have to sift through with such a small device anyways? (which I believe was part of Apple's reasoning behind the iPod shuffle)

**It does any kind of email you want (pretty much). Must confess I don't use mobile email very much so can't really back that up, shoot it down freely.

**Battery life is wonderful. My treo is in constant use and will normally last me about two days before dying (although i don't like to let it run down to the last so normally charge it with about 10% battery life remaining.

**You can play the original Quake on it, for crying out loud! I remember when trying to play that game at any kind of decent speed made my desktop PC burst into flames, and here it is, running smoothly in a device that fits in my hand. That amazes me. Okay, so I'm easily impressed.

Other stuff Treos can do off the top of my head: Good GPS (via bluetooth & tomtom or navman). Handy mobile internet - i've used mobile answers.com to settle many a trivia argument. And of course the thousands of palmOS apps out there. (running out of steam now)

My point: the Treo is the swiss-army knife of PDAs/smartphones/what-have-you. Sure, other devices can probably do all of the above as well, but I haven't used them. I probably never will, because the Treo has shown me exactly how your phone should be - reliable (it probably wouldn't reset at all if I didn't keep installing, reinstalling and making it do things it shouldn't), intuitive, functional, versatile. It really is a great device, and Palm are most surely onto a winner here! They just need to capitalise on it.

As I've read TVOR say repeatedly, Palm have squandered the lead Handspring gave them. Now I worry that they're going to get killed by a bigger, meaner company with more money and more motivation. I really give a damn about Palm "winning" these smartphone wars (although that would be cool ;) ) - I just don't want them to vanish. Fingers crossed this doesn't happen.

Have I made any sense at all? Apologies if it all comes across as fanboy rubbish. I'm new :P

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/21/2005 12:27:00 PM # Q
You probably click on those penis enlargement ads in your mail, too, don't you?


Don't be bitter just because the enlarger didn't help you overcome your deficiency, Beersy. I'm sure your wife still loves you despite your... shortcummings.

Take care.


TVoR

------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
AdamaDBrown @ 11/21/2005 1:23:13 PM # Q
cervezas said:
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here but I do wonder what the methodology is for coming up with a statement like this.

freakout said it first, but the general point is that comparing the Treo to the iPod creates a false optimism, promoting the idea that the Treo will be as big or bigger than the iPod. This eventually works to undermine real optimism, because when unrealistic expectations get dashed there tends to be a blowback. It should be more than sufficient that the Treo is doing as well as it is, without expecting it to defeat other, unrelated devices.

Simony said:
One report I saw claimed that a 500kb .doc file on a Palm took up about 1.2mb on a PPC. (Don't quote me on this - it is just something I read elsewhere.)

Well, this is just wrong. A 500 KB DOC file is a 500 KB DOC file. Your source doesn't know what they're talking about.

In any event, the 32 MB Surur was talking about is pure RAM, for running programs not storage space. We don't know how much storage space the T700 will have yet, but 64 or 128 MB are the most likely scenarios.

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
hkklife @ 11/21/2005 2:57:35 PM # Q
My $ is on 64mb.

It is unfortunate that Palm STILL fails to provide the proper brainwashing/marketing hoopla/education to its customers on just HOW MUCH the Treo can do. It's still FAR too hard for the average Joe to get a bunch of MP3s onto the Treo, for example. Even harder is said Joe wants to dump some MPEG videos of the family he just took with his new digital camera. Hunting around for codecs/TCMP etc? Please...

Additionally, how often do you think some unsuspecting Joe gets online to download some "stuff" for his Treo. Let's say he Googles for Palm photo viewing software and ends up with an older OS 5.0 app or, God forbid, an old game that doesn't take well to FrankenGarnet. Stick a user like that in ONE endless reset loop or even just give them one or two apps that don't run AFTER they have registered them (notice how many "name" POS titles like Puzzle Bobble/Galaga etc don't offer a trial download anymore?) or used to run on their Treo 600 and don't run on their 650. THAT, friends, is why the Treo will never even come close to the iPod. Most iPod users don't look at photos, play the Breakout game or sync their contacts to their iPods. They just play tunes--lots of them--and do it in an intuitive, elegant and easy manner. There's simply TOO MUCH THAT CAN GO WRONG on a Treo for it to EVER have a resounding success in the mainstream.

Also, being shackled by high retail prices and/or carrier contracts will always stifle any carrier-provided gadget's adoption rate. Wanna sell a bunch of Treos? Get Virgin Wireless, Boost or Amp'd to sell them. Have an "exclusive" black Treo 700p shipping with a 512mb SD card that's 1/2 preloaded with some cool games/videos/mp3s that you can load minutes onto (w/o a contract!) and watch them FLY OUT THE DOOR with a $400 retail price point. Heck, you'd have Mike Cane types buying them and using them as a PDA 90% of the time while burning up maybe < 1 hour of voice time per week. Nevertheless, they can say they "have" a Treo and it does indeed "make" phone calls.

(Heck, I'D BUY ONE just to check my email on since CDMA BT on a TX is a no-go).

Nearly everyone I talk to hates their carrier because they are shacked by two year commitments required to get the initial purchase price down. Then after a year the device breaks/novelty wears off/the user wants an upgrade but cannot due to their carrier's insane pricing. Palm needs to circumvent this stranglehold and come up with MORE product offered through a variety of channels. Imagine going into a Wal-Mart in Nebraska at 2am and being able to buy a Treo 200P pre-loaded with 100 minutes of data/voice usage. Sync your PIM data via IR/BT/SD and you're good to go.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
freakout @ 11/21/2005 4:34:56 PM # Q
"It is unfortunate that Palm STILL fails to provide the proper brainwashing/marketing hoopla/education to its customers on just HOW MUCH the Treo can do. It's still FAR too hard for the average Joe to get a bunch of MP3s onto the Treo, for example. Even harder is said Joe wants to dump some MPEG videos of the family he just took with his new digital camera. Hunting around for codecs/TCMP etc? Please..."

It is unfortunate, I'll agree. But it really isn't very hard to sync your Treo with mp3 or standard MPEG's. Realplayer is included, and auto-syncs with the Pocket Realplayer when you plug it in to the cradle/cable. And standard MPEG's are dead simple to add - just drag 'n drop with the Quick Install program or use the desktop Media app. If average Joe can work out drag 'n drop, they can sync media files.

As for intuitive - the default is setting on a Treo is to hold down the side button and Bang - mp3 player. Left and right to skip tracks, centre button to play. Touch screen with clearly labeled buttons if that's too hard. (pockettunes is a much the same, and auto-syncs with WMP)

What Palm really needs to do is improve the Quick Install so it's your one-stop-shop for syncing and you don't have to use the sepearate apps to do it.

And I'll agree that the potential for endless resets and OS incompatibilities is a scary one for the average user - but to be completely honest, I think the reset issue tends to be a little exaggerated here. I can only base this on personal experience, but the only times I've needed to reset my Treo were after installing apps that did screwy things with the memory, like UDMH and zDoom/quake etc. And I don't think average Joe's gonna bother with those kinda things anyways.

That said, it may never be a truly mass-market device because of its complexity. But one of the first questions people ask me after "My God, is that brick your phone?" is "Can I play with it?" And they've got the interface licked in about five minutes. The one-handed nav really is a delight, and the idea of dedicated hardware buttons for the three main functions - phone, messaging and the home button for everything else - is a good one that should never be dropped. So I think the Treo has an advantage there that other smartphones may not be able to match when it comes to mass-market ease-of-use.

"Also, being shackled by high retail prices and/or carrier contracts will always stifle any carrier-provided gadget's adoption rate. Wanna sell a bunch of Treos? Get Virgin Wireless, Boost or Amp'd to sell them. Have an "exclusive" black Treo 700p shipping with a 512mb SD card that's 1/2 preloaded with some cool games/videos/mp3s that you can load minutes onto (w/o a contract!) and watch them FLY OUT THE DOOR with a $400 retail price point. Heck, you'd have Mike Cane types buying them and using them as a PDA 90% of the time while burning up maybe < 1 hour of voice time per week. Nevertheless, they can say they "have" a Treo and it does indeed "make" phone calls."

Here here! I paid almost $1000 AUD for my unlocked GSM treo, and no one else I know would be that nutty. Price needs to come down, and a decent SD card should be included standard.

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
hkklife @ 11/22/2005 9:35:53 AM # Q
Tim;

I've use POS for ~9 years. Trust me when I say that sometimes even an EXPERIENCED user can get stuck in an endless reset loop. Especially when the LifeDrive is factored into the picture.

The current Treo's main shortcoming is feature list. Price (relative to what you're getting) & style are its secondary shortcomings.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5

RE: Now, another glowing analyst report
freakout @ 11/22/2005 4:26:23 PM # Q
Nine years? Wow. I thought I could call myself experienced with six months ;).

What features would you say the Treo is missing? (apart from Wi-Fi, of course)

Tim Carroll
Your friendly customer service robot
(and big Treo fan)

Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: