MobileInfocenter

The Egregious Incompetence of Palm Editorial

Roughly Drafted Magazine has written a fascinating piece sure to fan the flames of the Palm vs. Windows Mobile vs. Symbian vs. Linux vs. et al smartphone OS debate. For those not in an argumentative or finger-pointing mood, the article makes for a great quick and dirty summation of events through the platform's past decade.

Beginning with the formative years of Jeff Hawkins and Palm Computing, the piece acknowledges the early maneuverings of Hawkins such as his work at GRiD and the spectacular flameout of the Casio/Tandy Zoomer. The article then goes on to give a fairly accurate view of the rise of Palm during its early years with USR, the 3Com acquisition and spin-off, and the increasingly dire situation from 2000 onwards. The article also serves up a collection of photos of various Palm OS devices, acting as a helpful guide for readers unfamiliar with the variety of Palm OS devices released in the past decade.

Special care is taken to mention the Apple Newton and eMate, seeing as how they were relative failures in the marketplace compared to the early Palm Pilots. Yet with the imminent launch of the iPhone, many industry pundits are predicting Apple's bold return to the "PDA" market to be the ironic final nail in the Treo's coffin. In fact, the Apple to Palm parallels evidenced in this piece are numerous and quite succinct: the parallels between NeXT to Handspring and Apple's Copland debacle mirroring the stillborn Cobalt OS being of particular interest.

Near the end of the timeline presented in the article, the author casts a huge shadow of doubt on Palm's dual-OS strategy. In addition, the opinion of the article's author aligns with the frequently voiced concern in the PIC comments board that Palm's Windows Mobile Treos have little in the way of differentiating features compared to other smartphones from competing licensees (the notable "JAWL" axiom).

An excerpt:

Palm's licensing of Windows Mobile not only casts doubt upon its own plans for the Palm OS--it owns perpetual development rights to Garnet--but saddles the company with outside technology dependent upon the whims of Microsoft, and ensures that there is little differentiation between its products and those of other Windows Mobile licensees.

This article is must-read for anyone who more than a passing concern about the past, present, and possible future of the Palm OS. The article also makes an especially nice but brief complimentary companion piece to the informative-but-dated Piloting Palm book.

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The past is over - Lets get crackin

drbuzz0 @ 2/7/2007 12:46:44 AM # Q
Alright, understood that there were a lot of issues with palm. Now I'm still a fan of Palm OS, but I'm not so dillusional to not realize that it is in dire straights.

Now, come on palm. The ball is in your court. You have the code and the OS rights to start with. You have limited time. Get crackin!

RE: The past is over - Lets get crackin
legodude522 @ 2/7/2007 1:44:46 AM # Q
I expected better than this to come from PIC. But oh well. Palm is completely disconnected from the real world.

Palm m125 > Palm Zire 71 > Tapwave Zodiac 1 > Palm Zire 72 > Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000 + 4gb MicroDrive + Palm Tungsten T|3 (1100mah)
My T|3 is too [i]sexy[/i] for me.
Reply to this comment

Generally well-written, but

freakout @ 2/7/2007 12:32:51 AM # Q
I'm in an argumentative mood. ;)

There's a lot of FUD at the end:

Palm's licensing of Windows Mobile not only casts doubt upon its own plans for the Palm OS--it owns perpetual development rights to Garnet--but saddles the company with outside technology dependent upon the whims of Microsoft, and ensures that there is little differentiation between its products and those of other Windows Mobile licensees... Palm’s inability to stomach its own Palm OS is a bad sign, but its move to Windows Mobile is even more disturbing because even Microsoft is avoiding use of WinCE in the products it builds.

Really, does anybody doubt Palm's commitment to their own OS by now? Colligan has repeatedly stated that they're going to keep developing on PalmOS. And why would they negotiate an agreement that lets them develop it further and add new features if they were planning to jump ship? I don't buy the idea that their only plan there was to port Garnet to WinMob.

What's scary is the sales figures chart they put up: even if you factor in the Treo, Palm's sales across-the-board are still declining. Ouch.

As a history of Palm, the article's pretty good. As a comparison of how PalmOS stacks up against the iPhone OSX, it's a bit thin on the ground. Taken from the first part of the article:

...Phone integration features in its latest Treo line are frustratingly just minimally sufficient.

The potential of third party apps on the Palm has largely been neutered by Palm's incompetent handling of the Palm OS, limitations in hardware, and sync functionality that only works well on lucky days of the week.

HotSync works fine for me, last time I checked there were dozens of excellent Treo-specific apps and the phone integration is stellar. It parses phone numbers from web pages, emails and SMS so you can dial or message them with a tap. You can dial a phone number from Google Maps just like their vaunted iPhone. And the usefulness of apps like Directory Assistant (for Americans, at least ;) ) cannot be understated.

In short, I call "neutered potential" for third-party apps better than "no potential at all" - which is currently the situation with the iPhone.

All hail Jobs. (gag)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Generally well-written, but
cervezas @ 2/7/2007 8:02:26 AM # Q
I agree, Tim.

As a historical piece this was nicely done, and I think it makes a good case that Palm made some critical blunders in the past that Apple avoided. But the facts the author presents give the lie to the conclusions he draws. In the last couple of years Palm bought back its brand, a lot of its best developers, and now its OS. People with a passing interest might still be able to have the impression that its commitment to Palm OS is flagging due to the Windows Mobile Treos, but it's pretty clear to anyone really paying attention that Palm is gearing up to eliminate any doubts on that front. You don't go spending $44M on development rights for an OS that you're trying to get rid of. The author's tactic is pretty transparent: distract attention from Palm's current plans by focusing on the mistakes of its previous management. Not that Colligan and the Handspring bunch haven't made mistakes of their own, but I think most of us would be forced to agree they've taken great strides toward recovering the sorry mess their predecessors left them.

As for the sync comments: if you follow the links you realize that the complaints about synchronization are all about sync with the Mac, admittedly a weak point for Palm, but hardly a reason for Palm's problems. Meanwhile take a look at how he talks about sync on the iPhone. This guy is an Apple fanboy running in full Apologist mode. I love http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/E2B20363-7BAD-426B-A888-3D7CE673E4CB.html">this bit of sophistry:

Bluetooth, EDGE, and WiFi have compelling uses, but sync isn't really one of them.

Since the iPhone only syncs via a USB cable what could be more self-evident than that there's no other way anyone would want to sync data?

I'm not worried about the iPhone failing. There will be 3G models, cheaper models, models that sync wirelessly and models that address concerns that people have once they try to use the darned thing as a phone. There may even be models that are open for developers at some point. But this kind of FUD-casting is an embarrassing display that underscores the insecurity that even the fanboys have over whether the iPhone can live up to the hype.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Generally well-written, but
hkklife @ 2/7/2007 11:17:02 AM # Q
I agree for the most part with all of the above comments. Ryan and I try to keep personal opinion and outright commentary out of most of the news items, preferring to leave that for the comments area if necessary.

So I basicaly took the Egregious Incompetence piece as a solidly researched historical piece that gets derailed when it enters into events of, oh, the past year to 18 months.

While I am still not certain about Palm's dual OS strategy, I think that they are taking the right steps to rectify the situation with Garnet (albeit about 3 years too late). The tidbits of new UI seen in the Treo 700p & 680 (especially the 680) are a step in the right direction. The hideous showstopping bugs of the 700p and the fact that it's approaching a year on the market with no updates in sight are NOT encouraging signs that the "new" regime cares much more than the old one.

Right now I think Palm would be best served to can the entire Palm OS lineup other than the Treo 680 and start from scratch.

Palm could then roll out one new POS unit per quarter for a grand total of four or five devices:

#1 Entry level $100 or less color PDA with SDHC slot & headphone jack. Target this at kids & students as an mp3 playin', organizin' device for wanna be hipsters on a budget.

#2 Midrange PDA. Either bring out a T|E3 or cut the price on the TX or combine both units into one. $200 price point, bluetooth & wi-fi, and solid build quality and battery. Target the business users and salesmen who have company issued cell phones and cannot have a Treo.

#3 Flagship PDA/PMP/VOIP/Mobile Manager. Basically take a TX, give it a few gigs of internal flash storage, a higher capacity battery and a more comfortable design. Add a charge LED and an internal microphone and include VOIP software and a very good media player in the box. Perhaps license and reskin CorePlayer? With an 8gb+ SDHC onboard + 2 or 4gb internaly, this thing would give the Palm OS faithful a serious alternative to the iPhone and all of the other flash-based PMPs on the market. All of this has been done (mostly) in other OS5 Palms and shouldn't be a problem for a properly hacked and patched Garnet to handle. Palm NEEDS to be taught that NOT EVERYONE NEEDS, WANTS, OR CAN AFFORD A TREO!

#4 Entry-level GSM Palm OS Treo. The Treo 680 is near perfection for what it's trying to do. Just keep chruning out software updates and the inevitable price drop will only make things sweeter.

#5 Midrange CDMA/EVDO Palm OS Treo. Discontinue the miserble 700p ASAP. Put the 700's innards into the 680's formfactor, squash ALL of the 700p's Bluetooth and lag issues, and make the price much more attractive.

The rest is up to Palm. They can have a parallel Treo running WinMob to the 750p (described above). Then their high-end devices and the "next great thing" of Hawkins can run WinMob all day long.

But there's still room for Palm OS aka FrankenGarnet

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Generally well-written, but
Gekko @ 2/7/2007 11:59:28 AM # Q

#1, #2, #3 is a waste of Palm's limited resources. There's no margins nor market for PDAs anymore. Just like the VCR, the PDA is DEAD.



RE: Generally well-written, but
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2007 1:16:36 PM # Q
It's possible PALM grabbed PalmOS literally to save themselves some bucks over the next couple years (only) w.r.t. licensing fees. They don't have to do a damn thing with it otherwise to get their money back, assuming they continue to produce and sell PalmOS devices for that period of time in sufficient quantity to get the appropriate ROI.

All this talk about dramatic new PalmOS stuff is a lot of so-far-groundless fanboy stuff - as the CEO himself said:

== "...if you look at most of the cell phone suppliers and most people
== who are shipping products into the market today, the vast majority
== of those sales are happening with products that no one has any clue
== what the OS is..."


RE: Generally well-written, but
cervezas @ 2/7/2007 1:47:03 PM # Q
All this talk about dramatic new PalmOS stuff is a lot of so-far-groundless fanboy stuff - as the CEO himself said:

== "...if you look at most of the cell phone suppliers and most people
== who are shipping products into the market today, the vast majority
== of those sales are happening with products that no one has any clue
== what the OS is..."

There are plenty of grounds for believing that Palm is doing this. I won't rehash it again here, but since you haven't explained your claim that it's "groundless" perhaps you'd like to elaborate.

As for the Colligan remark, I suppose you were expecting him to tell the shareholders "yeah, we know Palm OS is old and creaky and we don't really think it's competitive in the long run" is that it? Or that he'd reply to a question like this by pre-announcing OS plans that were conditional on negotiations with ACCESS that hadn't been concluded? I would have thought someone of your experience would be able to recognize a CEO dodging a touchy question.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Generally well-written, but
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2007 2:43:17 PM # Q
The context of the comment suggests he's trying to justify not worrying about the OS.


RE: Generally well-written, but
hkklife @ 2/7/2007 4:47:31 PM # Q
Assuming that Palm keeps one or two entry level POS PDAs and one or two low/mid range POS Treos in production for the next year or two, Colligan's claim that the "average" user doesn't care about OS is basically correct.

If you take the users who buy on price alone and don't care about the OS on one hand and combine that with the remaining Palm OS diehards on the other hand, a strong case can be made to keep at least two or three POS models around to justify the perpetual Garnet license. And isn't maintaining SOME kind of a retail presence to keep the "Palm" name & logo in the eyes of the mass market consumer worth keeping a PDA or two in the lineup?

I doubt anyone's going to be able to sell a $100-$150 WinMob device of any kind for the forseeable with any kind of a decent margin on it.

That said, I will gladly wager today that the bulk of Palm's R&D budget, marketing budget, and technical support budget is going (and shall continue) towards their "flagship" WinMob products.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Generally well-written, but
cervezas @ 2/7/2007 5:22:50 PM # Q
The context of the comment suggests he's trying to justify not worrying about the OS.

... which, as I pointed out, is exactly what he'd be trying to convince shareholders of whether Palm was going to just let Garnet ride for a couple of years as you suggest, or whether they had "dramatic" development plans that he couldn't announce for the reasons described in the 10k. The comment means nothing.

So, again: I'm interested in hearing your reasons for dismissing the evidence about Palm's next generation OS plans. You're an objective and inquisitive guy: I'm sure you thought that through and had a reason for saying it. Or was it really just Colligan's comment that persuaded you?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Generally well-written, but
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2007 5:39:11 PM # Q
As noted before, I think the "Linux stuff" is pretty much on the SERVER side, not the client side.

It may be that PALM thinks they can massage PalmOS on the client side to interact in weird and wonderful ways with the server software, thus extending its lifetime well beyond what they need for payback of their...er...semi-purchase. I can live with that.

But I truly do not think they're trying to tack PalmOS onto something else nor trying to evolve PalmOS into some other OS, nor have I seen anything that convinces me that's what they're trying to do.

And it is without doubt sufficient for them to produce not all that many plain-old PalmOS devices to make back their money anyway.

======

Note - I am not at ALL convinced that "Hawkins'" Next Great Thing is what we are talking about. I wouldn't be surprised at ALL to find out the LifeDrive really WAS what HE was talking about. But I don't have a problem talking about what I truly believe is heavy-server-side software interacting with some set of devices as "The Next Great Thing".

I'm still curious, BTW, about why Bill Coleman suggestively joined the BoD...

Note, part II - and I think the iPhone is an example of JUST such a client/server relationship, though we have only a single strong datapoint suggesting THAT thought - the Visual Voicemail feature.

RE: Generally well-written, but
cervezas @ 2/7/2007 6:52:53 PM # Q
I've always thought that Bill Coleman's seat on the board was suggestive: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8843/#123959 And sure, Palm might want Linux developers for server-side software. But what they've been hiring (aside from some ambiguous tools guys) is embedded Linux people. And they stepped up the hiring after PalmSource was acquired, and after they got the right to use and develop Garnet with "other system technologies."

Heck, maybe it's just R&D. Or maybe they've just been biding their time like the rest of us to see what ALP looks like.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Generally well-written, but
freakout @ 2/7/2007 10:07:34 PM # Q
Gekko:
#1, #2, #3 is a waste of Palm's limited resources. There's no margins nor market for PDAs anymore. Just like the VCR, the PDA is DEAD.

Indeed, but the personal media player segment is begging for their attention.

There'll always be specific uses for PDAs for doctors, delivery guys etc, so it'll never completely die off. If Palm wanted to revive declining sales, though - which they don't seem to - then a media player could be a good way of doing so. Right now, the biggest reason the PDA is dying is that nobody's putting any effort into it anymore. With love and care it could remain a profitable niche; why abandon them completely?

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Generally well-written, but
twrock @ 2/7/2007 11:21:58 PM # Q
Right now, the biggest reason the PDA is dying is that nobody's putting any effort into it anymore. With love and care it could remain a profitable niche; why abandon them completely?

And, why not keep your low-end units (PDA's) if for nothing more than keeping another point of entry into your "eco-system". Just look back at the article being referenced. How much of Palm's early success was the simplicity, being "low-end"? So you want Palm to deliver only high-end, high-margin devices and forget about the millions of users who might just upgrade to one of those higher-end, converged devices in the future if they had a lower-end option to start with? Sure, that makes business sense to me.

Just how long ago was it you were still using a PDA Gekko? But now that you've moved on the PDA is "dead" and a waste to the Palm business model. Right.

I'm still waiting for the mythical color HandEra.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

RE: Generally well-written, but
SeldomVisitor @ 2/8/2007 9:14:32 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

Apple troll

LarryGarfield @ 2/7/2007 1:40:06 AM # Q
Um, look at the other articles on that site. They're all linked from the article, right in the first line. This is part of a series of installments aimed at discrediting everything out there that's not the iPhone. I'd call it astroturfing but I don't think that's really Apple's style. Their fanboys are more than happy to do it themselves without any prompting from The Steve. (They're even worse than Palm fanboys! :-) )

The iPhone isn't even a phone. It's a portable media player that has a GSM radio in it. That's cool for some people I'm sure, and it will sell well with that crowd, but I'm not part of that crowd.

--
This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

RE: Apple troll
legodude522 @ 2/7/2007 1:46:31 AM # Q
iPhone will fail. It was great the first 2 hours. But after that...

Palm m125 > Palm Zire 71 > Tapwave Zodiac 1 > Palm Zire 72 > Sharp Zaurus SL-C1000 + 4gb MicroDrive + Palm Tungsten T|3 (1100mah)
My T|3 is too [i]sexy[/i] for me.
RE: Apple troll
jvburdick @ 2/7/2007 4:19:13 PM # Q
I think it is a bit early to say that... I'm hoping the iPhone will push Palm to produce a better Treo device.

Reply to this comment

Benhamou

Gekko @ 2/7/2007 8:00:09 AM # Q

Let history show that the blame squarely on the shoulders of Eric Benhamou. He hired Yankowski and he hired Nagel. He started the series of negative spirals that brought us to where we are today.



Reply to this comment

RE: History not bad but the future?

Nycran @ 2/7/2007 8:33:06 AM # Q
I enjoyed reading this right up to the point where the author starting discrediting the Treo. Whichever way I look at it, whilst Palm OS is old, it is still fast, elegant and utterly usable.

The Treo IMHO is an excellent device (especially the 680), and if palm could somehow lower the purchase cost to sub $400, I think they would sell like hot cakes.

I'm not even sure an entire OS rework is needed. Is they gave the OS a new vibrant look, improved stability, improved the native applications (palm MUST have a good native media player), added support for upcoming mobile networks (ie, HSDPA), continued to improve the form factor (get it super thin like Vx), gave the device a large slice of internal flash memory and then started a good marketing campaign, it's hard to see that failing.

RE: History not bad but the future?
moofie @ 2/9/2007 2:30:21 AM # Q
Elegant?

Is it elegant to have a separate category for all the apps on my SD card?
Is it elegant to have an utterly moronic memory management system?
Is it elegant to have nothing even remotely like a file management application?

PalmOS may be many things (specifically, it's a damn sight better than Windows Mobile), but it's sure not elegant.

I've got a Treo 700p, which finally has enough memory on board not to choke every time I look at it. Fortunately, I haven't had the raft of problems other folks have had. (It's not quite as stable as my 650, which is pretty disappointing). I'll probably not be in the smartphone market for another year and a half or so.

At which point, I'm pretty confident that the iPhone will have shown how silly the naysayers are, and demonstrated itself to be the device that Palm should have shipped three years ago.

It was Palm's game to lose, and they've spent every ounce of energy they could muster for the last five years trying to lose it. Good job, I guess.

RE: History not bad but the future?
freakout @ 2/9/2007 3:51:29 AM # Q
At which point, I'm pretty confident that the iPhone will have shown how silly the naysayers are, and demonstrated itself to be the device that Palm should have shipped three years ago.

You mean a locked-down feature phone? :P

RE: History not bad but the future?
twrock @ 2/9/2007 8:48:12 AM # Q
I'll probably not be in the smartphone market for another year and a half or so.

At which point, I'm pretty confident that the iPhone will have shown how silly the naysayers are, and demonstrated itself to be the device that Palm should have shipped three years ago.

Interesting that Apple didn't ship it three years ago either. So a year and a half from now, Apple will ship the kind of smartphone that was supposed to be shipping four and a half years prior. Kinda makes everyone look pretty stupid, doesn't it?

And freakout is spot on. Unless in the next year and a half Apple really opens up their smartphones to third-party developers, I don't see how their "iPhone" is going to be of any interest to me then either. YMMV, because that might be exactly the kind of "smart"phone you are interested in, but it surely isn't what I'm looking for.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Reply to this comment

They are Apple fanboys ...

Surur @ 2/7/2007 8:48:25 AM # Q

... and are just swooning over the Iphone. They are dissing and dismissing all the other mobile OS's, while whooping up the wonder of OSX for a phone, while only ever having seen a demo.

They have no credibility.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: They are Apple fanboys ...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2007 8:52:43 AM # Q
> ...They have no credibility.

But, unfortunately, neither do you anymore.

The vehemence with which you started and continue to attack everything iPhone is shocking to THIS reader - you went from wonderfully-neutral information-supplier to foaming-at-the-mouth Apple Basher.

And there doesn't appear to be ANY good reason for that amazing transformation!

Weird.

No kidding.

RE: They are Apple fanboys ...
freakout @ 2/7/2007 8:52:56 AM # Q
^^ Amen, brother.
RE: They are Apple fanboys ...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/7/2007 8:55:25 AM # Q
Giggle.

RE: They are Apple fanboys ...
Surur @ 2/7/2007 9:13:21 AM # Q
Hengeen, a bit like you, my arguments are always based on outside verifiable sources. Like most people, I have no doubt the Iphone will succeed spectacularly, but I vehemently disagree that its an objectively better solution for most current smartphone users. If you have followed my posts you will already know why.

The Jobsian RDF appears to have passed me by, and it irritates me to no end when others argue that the Iphone is better due to Apple's manifest destiny to rule every field they get involved in.

Let Apple prove it first.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: They are Apple fanboys ...
freakout @ 2/7/2007 7:18:44 PM # Q
^^ Amen, brother.

I hate it when another post gets inserted on top of mine. That was meant to point to you, Surur. :) The iPhone won't be available for ages and those making the claim that it's the Bestest Thing Ever! are just talking out their butt at this point.

(Myself included, of course: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9178/editorial-iphone-or-iclone/) ;)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

Reply to this comment

Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone

Gekko @ 2/7/2007 8:19:35 PM # Q
RE: Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone
jfme @ 2/7/2007 9:12:51 PM # Q
The five stages of grief are:
1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance

While I don't think the iPhone is best of all Worlds, Apple has always excelled on performing simple tasks extremelly well. To me, the iPod is probably the most expensive digital music player in the market. But, do you have to buy third party software to play music? Do you have to wait several months/years for patches to get the device working properly?

Yeah...keep on laughing...

The good times are soon to be over...They will not know what hit them...

RE: Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone
Foo Fighter @ 2/7/2007 10:14:57 PM # Q
Uh..yeah, Ballmer laughed off iPhone as insignificant. But did you catch the part where he says the Motorola Q is capable of of the same functions, as if that device makes iPhone irrelevant? He casually leaves out the fact the Q is pile of junk, suffering the highest return rate of any smartphone. If anything the Q validates iPhone and proves why Ballmer and his company just doesn't get it. Hint: Steve, old bean - it's not that iPhone does what your platform cant - it just does it BETTER.

-------------------------------
PocketFactory, www.pocketfactory.com
The iPhone Blog, www.theiphoneblog.com
RE: Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone
freakout @ 2/7/2007 10:17:18 PM # Q
I disagree. Microsoft have proven with the Xbox 360 that they are more than capable of making outstanding products. The Zune has been pretty lacklustre so far, but if it's anything like the original Xbox then version 2 is going to be much better.

Apple are the ones headed for a fall. Total dominance - as is currently the case with the iPod - can't and won't be maintained in the consumer electronics arena for ever. That, by the way, is a good thing.

(the same is true for MS with operating systems, of course.)

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone
t3h @ 2/8/2007 11:37:21 PM # Q
>Apple are the ones headed for a fall. Total dominance - as is currently the case with the iPod - can't and won't be maintained in the consumer electronics arena for ever. That, by the way, is a good thing.

They lose 30% of the marketshare to something else. They still have 40% of the market, and a lot of money. It's held on for a long while.

Palm TX + 1GB SD + Motorola v3x = awesomeness

RE: Ballmer laughs at Apple iPhone
arielb @ 2/9/2007 1:36:16 PM # Q
I think Ballmer is right. No hard keyboard, no 3rd party apps and no consideration of business features-you can be sure you won't see spreadsheets on the iphone. Even puny palmos can do that.

Companies buy in bulk so if you don't get the companies....you don't have a long term future.

Reply to this comment

PDA are dead

zboub75 @ 2/8/2007 6:18:59 AM # Q
Last time I used my Palm PDA ? almost 2 1/2 years ago...
I used to used my Palm mainly on traveling (notes, address, metro, e-book, games, etc...).

What stopped me to use a Palm:
- sync -> piece of crap, synchronization with Lotus Notes (via XTND connect) is a disaster. Palm Desktop has no value. Had to reset Avango every 2 weeks.15 minutes average to transfert a pdf file to my palm...
- size of the device -> since m515, all devices have became larger and bigger, you can't just forget it in your pocket...
- weak battery life -> so poor, and so easy to draw in the pocket of a bag, by accidentaly getting a button pressed.
- the decrease price of the laptop.
- improvement of cell phone address book that can now store all the informations I need.

I now use a laptop when traveling and I have a small cell phone that sits in my pocket.

So I don't really care about the OS it runs, the horse power it has, I just need device that do the job they are designed for...

So for me PDA wolrd is over, period.

m505 -> m130 -> m515 -> i705 -> Tungsten W -> Tungsten T -> Zire 71 -> TT3 -> .

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