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Palm Offering Full Refund to m130 Owners

Several weeks ago, it was acknowledged by Palm Inc. that the m130's screen could not display the number of colors the company had previously advertised. At that time, Palm said it was working on ways to compensate m130 owners for this mistake.

The company has begun sending registered Palm m130 customers an email that gives them two options. The first is a refund for the purchase price and tax of their m130 handheld. The second is a free copy of SimCity, a $30 value.

The email owners will be receiving provides information about these two offers, and links to either download SimCity, or to register to receive a refund. This information will also be posted on the Palm Web site.

SimCity is available in most regions around the world. Where SimCity is not available, regions will still offer options - a free download of a color application, or a full refund.

The m130 starts with a 12-bit screen and uses dithering to increase the number of apparent colors displayed. Palm originally believed that this allowed the m130 to display the same number of colors as a 16-bit screen, which is 65,536. Instead, Palm's system can display what it describes as 58,621 color combinations.

Spokesperson Marlene Somsak has said this was an honest mistake on Palm's part and apologized on behalf of her company for this error.

For all the negative attention this has brought to Palm and the m130, there appears to have been little reaction from m130 owners. According to a company spokesperson, Palm's customer support center has received about 8 calls to date regarding the m130 color issue.

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i JUST got this

TexSkater9140 @ 9/5/2002 8:48:24 AM #
i just recieved this e-mail.
it is kind of bad for someone who already has SimCity, and doesnt want a full refund.
but oh well, i'll just take the game anyways
-alex

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RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 12:12:22 PM #
If you've already got the game and you like the unit (and why not -- it's a lot better than my m125), don't force Palm to spend money on your game. They'll just pass it back to the customers sooner or later! You can think about that when we all complain about how overpriced the OS 5 models are...

(Obviously if you don't have the game or you feel upset about missing 10% of your colour range, take them up on their offer.)

RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 2:08:09 PM #
I'd take the full value refund and then go buy one off of ebay.
RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 3:13:51 PM #
Am I blind??? Please tell me I am...

TAKE THE FREAKING MONEY..DUH

Than if you really like your Palm, go buy another one, that can be purchased CHEAPER, and with a brand new and fresh WARRANTY.

Some people just don't see an opportunity if you sholve a million bucks up their ***... They'd still insist that working for 8 bucks an hour is the best thing.

RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 3:32:30 PM #
> Than if you really like your Palm, go buy another one, that can be purchased
> CHEAPER, and with a brand new and fresh WARRANTY.

How does it feel to be totally contemptible?

Anyone in their right mind!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 5:10:45 PM #
Anyone in their right mind would send it back... get the refund... buy a new one for less and make some cash on the deal.. and even if its not for less just get the same thing, at least your warranty is longer.... who cares about the game and how happy you are with your palm... this is your chance to either get something new or extend your warranty...or if it is that much cheaper why dont you just keep going through the cycle of buying and returning through palm... probably wouldn't work but its an idea!!

Laters! Smarten Up!

RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 5:31:29 PM #
Yeah, smarten up! That's how you get ahead in this world: lie, cheat, and steal. Morals and ethics are for whimps. Laws are for little guys. Keep it up and eventually you can run a major U.S. corporation like Enron.
RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 6:47:59 PM #
how is get a refund, and buy another one for a cheaper price a crime !? .... hmm .... hmm ..... are you one of those Enron executives ??
RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 7:23:20 PM #
It's not a crime. It's just dishonest.
Roy
RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 7:40:01 PM #
How is that dishonest !? ...

1) I think I paidtoo much for a 12 bit screen PDA so I get a refund
2) When I go for shopping I see a M130 selling for less and I think that price justify for a 12 bit screen PDA so I buy it.

I don't see any dishonest in both action 1 and 2 ..
but I do see dishonest in giving customers false information.

RE: i JUST got this
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/6/2002 7:32:49 AM #
It's not dishonest, and it's not really morally reprehensible, but it is a lot of trouble to go through for $20 or so. Most people won't bother.

Maybe I missed something...

Isaiahp @ 9/5/2002 8:51:13 AM #
I have not had my morning pot of coffee, but do you have to send your m130 back to get the refund??
RE: Maybe I missed something...
big_raji @ 9/5/2002 8:53:56 AM #
I'd assume so. :)

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html
RE: Maybe I missed something...
epall @ 9/5/2002 12:27:20 PM #
I don't think so...

RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 12:51:59 PM #
Yes, you have to return the handheld. Palm's on-line form requesting a refund says "Please provide the required information below. You will be contacted via email with details regarding the return of your handheld and the refund process."
RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 2:02:19 PM #
Duh. It's not like you win the lottery just because you bought something slightly different than advertized. That's why they call it a "refund" instead of "free money for anyone why feels bad".
RE: Maybe I missed something...
useybird @ 9/5/2002 10:19:08 PM #
That's BS I just want my money and I'm keeping my handheld. If I return it I wont have a PDA. BTW I'm a registered owner and Palm is hesitant to send the emails out. This is a bad move for palm because why don't people just return it to the Point of Purchase. They should just send money. And I don't need SimCity. And even if I wanted it I could just download it from warez sites. This refund thing is even more of a ripoff than Palm selling me a 12-bit handheld. I unlike most m130 users, actually need 16-bit color for pictures and movies. It just looks crappy because of all the dithering.

----------------------------------------
A few years ago at the Sony handheld Dept.:" That's the most stupid name ever. Who would want to buy something called a 'Clie'? You must be out of your mind!"
RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 10:34:40 PM #
> And I don't need SimCity. And even if I wanted it I could just download it from warez sites.
> I unlike most m130 users, actually need 16-bit color for pictures

Why don't you go steal a handheld with a 16 bit screen? Or you could rob a few people and use their money to buy a handheld. It shouldn't bother you. You already made it clear you don't have any morals.

RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/6/2002 12:34:52 AM #
Hey useybird, you need help! (Either that or you've got a mighty big lure in the water.)

Palm is offering you a full refund for the return of your m130. And you somehow think it is their responsibility to let you keep it?!!! That definitely is in the running for the "dumbest comment of the day."

You think Palm is ripping you off by not letting you keep the 130, but it is fine for you to illegally download software. Freakin' unbelievable!

Since you don't seem intelligent enough to figure it out on your own, just go out and buy a replacement for that completely useless m130, hotsync everything over with your illegal copy of Backupbuddy, and then send the m130 back to Palm for a refund.

And regarding your "need" for 16-bit, just when was it you noticed that your screen was only 12-bit? I'll bet it wasn't until some time after PIC broke the news.

RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/6/2002 12:57:05 AM #
So maybe you could tell me why CRT Manufacturers doest mark their Monitor's refresh rate higher

e.g. they could say this monitor can run 1024X768 at 100Hz .. but turns out it runs at 75Hz, and I am pretty sure your eyes can't count that the monitor refreshes 75 times every second. So CRT makers should all jsut say their CRT can refresh at 1000Hz, becasue human eyes can't count so fast, hay I can say whatever Hertz I want!

Sometimes something your eyes can't "see" doesn't mean it doesn't affect the user experience.

RE: Maybe I missed something...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/26/2002 2:42:29 PM #
u r stupid
coffee or not

Wow, I'm actually impressed.

big_raji @ 9/5/2002 8:52:47 AM #
I'm impressed that Palm's doing this refund.

I'm more impressed that they seem to be taking the initiative and e-mailing registered users about this. These are probably people that have never even heard of the problem.

Nice.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 8:57:10 AM #
I'm impressed the lawsuit worked. Because without it, Palm would still be claiming that the m130 is capable of 65K colors.
RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 8:59:38 AM #
Palm said a bunch of times in public that the m130 couldn't live up to its advertised claims and it was trying to figure out how to compensate customers days before the class action suit was filed. Palm has done the right thing here and you can't twist it into a negative.
RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 9:00:38 AM #
Congrats, you are the first to come out with a negative spin this morning. Maybe, with a little luck you will be struck by a car on your way to work.
RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 9:22:01 AM #
I need to get here early more often - when there are more positive comments than negatives...

:-)

I wish I had a m130 'cause then I'd get SimCity for nix! D'oh! Silly me bought a m515 instead... oh well...

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 9:28:06 AM #
Not that I feel that the color problem with the m130 was that bad, I mean, one could look at the quality of the screen and decide how well or badly it displayed colors before one bought it regardless of what the "specifications" stated. But how does getting a free GAME compensate for this mistake?
RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
Scott R @ 9/5/2002 9:39:46 AM #
I think it's great that Palm is doing this. This is definitely a fair offer. It's too bad that Palm may end up taking a financial hit for someone (or group of someones) bad idea of trying to deceive people.

I have to side with the folks who say that if not for all of the bad publicity and threat of a class action lawsuit, this buy-back offer would probably not exist.

Furthermore, I think Palm would do well to reword the "58,000 color combination" nonsense and come clean. Otherwise, they could get bitten twice with this. Imagine, someone takes the free copy of SimCity then when someone else threatens a class action because the device isn't capable of 58,000 colors, but only 4096, they have to buy back the device or offer some other extra piece of software. Just bite the bullet and state it clearly as follows: "The Palm m130 can display 4096 colors but is able to play 16-bit applications." If they're afraid that 4096 colors sounds too limited, then say "thousands of colors" (which they're doing in some places), but drop the 58,000 color combinations nonsense, please.

Scott

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 9:45:34 AM #
"But how does getting a free GAME compensate for this mistake?"

Yes.

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
Rolando @ 9/5/2002 9:46:11 AM #
I think that this is a fine thing that Palm is doing.

It's unfortunate that it won't be perfect for everyone, since not everyone wants the game (a $25-40 credit for software or accessory would have been better), but still... If you're that unhappy, take the refund.

Rolando

SimCity freeware
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 10:10:30 AM #
and i got a freeware version of SimCity on my m515... by ateliersoftware.com
Good deal!
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 10:25:30 AM #
Its amazing how this small M130 issue has become such a big thing. Not many people have noticed the screen difference, and not many people have bothered Palm about it. ( they’re cheap customers. Cheap Customers = stupid people) If I did have an M130, I would gladly give it back. Imagine, you buy a PDA 3 or 4 months ago, and now you find out Palm is giving a full refund. Its almost like getting rid of your old PDA, and getting a full refund, for a PDA that is soon outdated.)
An interesting story.
And also, compensating Palm owners with a 40 dollar software game is foolish. I would have given M130 owners a choice. Maybe for example, Sim City, Zap2000!, Bejeweled, or some other game.
Palm shouldn’t have lied/mislead the public in the first place. I have completely lost my trust now in Palm, and I have been fed up of Sonys new models. Cant there be another PDA maker that doesn’t outdate as much, but offers some good stuff!?!??!

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 10:27:05 AM #
> But how does getting a free GAME compensate for this mistake?

If you are feeling a little bit dissatisfied with the m130's screen, getting a free (very cool) game will go a long way towards making you happy again.

If you don't feel the game is enough to make you happy again, send your m130 back and get a refund. Then buy something else.

Palm is covering the people who feel slightly miffed and the people who are really angry. If they had just offered the refund, most people would have gotten nothing because most people are mostly happy with their m130s.

I feel confident making that sweeping generalization because in all the hundreds of comments I've read on this, I only remember 2 from an actual m130 owner who wants his money back and I think both of those were from the same man.

> and i got a freeware version of SimCity on my m515...
> by ateliersoftware.com

Let's not confuse people by saying there is a freeware version of SimCity. It may have come bundled with your m515, but the term "freeware" says anyone can get it for free, which isn't true. To understand the difference, if you sent your friend a copy of MiddleCaps Hack, a freeware app, there would be no problem. If you sent your friend a copy of SimCity, you would be breaking the law. SimCity costs $40.

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
Ronin @ 9/5/2002 10:44:09 AM #
I am glad that Palm is doing this if solely for the reason that it will mullify (hopefully) the press on this topic. Personally, I am also astounded by the fuss this has caused I doubt that many actual m130 owners will return their devices (much like comparatively few took HP up on their return offer).

I also wanted to address this issue of the class action suit that was filed. I doubt strongly that this had any real impact on Palm's decision. I say this because a class action suit does not begin in the same way every other suit begins, that is, the aggrieved party commences a suit against the party they believe has wronged them. A class action suit is filed and before the suit can proceed the court must certify the class or group of individuals that the suit proports to represent. The court can easily (and quite often does) decline to certify a class for various reasons including that the class (group) of people are not clearly defined or the harm caused to the group is too vague and not actionable (these are just examples). Thus the suit filed on this matter could not reasonably be considered viable at this early stage because it has several significant hurdles to overcome before Palm really needed to take it seriously.

I should add that now that Palm has taken action to address the harm, the difficulty of pursuing a class action suit is even greater because Palm can show that it has provided a remedy that is proportionate to the harm caused and that it has made diligent efforts to publish the remedy to the potential class.

More likely, the bad press was a big motivating factor. I also think that Palm is a fairly honest and above board company (despite this misrepresentation, which I chose to believe was accidental not intentional). In a time of revelations about companies inflating their bottom line for years on end, Palm has consistently been honest about its earnings (or lack thereof), financial difficulties and missteps. Considering that they are, by far, the leader in the market, it would have been easy to lie about profits and inflate stock value but they did not and took the lumps that came along with it. So, in my opinion, Palm generally does do the right thing (definitely not the most innovative or cutting edge thing) and I always cheer for people and companies that try to do the right thing.


In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

Palm did the right thing...
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 11:39:24 AM #
...and you know it. I'm not a fan of the m130, and I own a Sony, but I have to admit that Palm's come up with a pretty solid solution to what's mainly a PR issue. The lame-brain who tried to claim up above that the class-action lawsuit caused this, well, is an idiot. Palm said they were seeking a proper resolution well before any such suit was filed. So get over it.

Sure, there will be people who spin this negatively, as they do EVERY move that Palm makes. And there will no doubt be people who flame me over this, as they do EVERY positive comment about Palm. And there will likely be people who cry and whine about how Palm should do more, as they do EVERY time anything about Palm is posted. And these people should all get a life...

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 11:43:25 AM #
> Maybe, with a little luck you will be struck by a car on your way to work.

***

Some people on this board are just plain evil and YOU certainly count among them.

Have a nice day and watch the traffic on the way to work.

RE: Palm did the right thing...
rldunn @ 9/5/2002 11:56:52 AM #
Right on. I'm also a Sony owner, but Palm went farther than they had to with this, and they should be congratulated for that. We need more companies who make decisions like that.

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
sixty-four @ 9/5/2002 12:08:08 PM #
Yea, stop hatin dudes. Palm is owning up for they're fiesco so they should be given some props for they're efforts.

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/5/2002 12:24:48 PM #
i do think it is commendable that palm is offering
a refund or a free game (for those like myself that
are happy with their m130 units. this is just my
opinion but owning a 515 as well in a side by side
comparision the m130 has a nicer screen with more
vibrant color. 12 bit. so what. if palm never told
me i would never have know nor do i really care. it
does what i need it to do without problem and that
is what counts.

kudos to palm though for doing the right thing. as
for me, i already have sim city but still intend on
keep my m130. i've become quite attached to it.

RE: Wow, I'm actually impressed.
Token User @ 9/5/2002 12:25:58 PM #
Fiasco? 8 people calling Palm support is a fiasco??

I don't own a M130. I don't own a colour PDA.

This is a deal between M130 owners and Palm, not Sony NR70V owners and Palm, or M515 owners and Palm.

The people that need to be satisfied with the deal are the ones that own the M130. Everyone else should just shut up and sit down, and let the parties involved decide if it is a good deal or not.


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