Palm OS Continues Domination of Retail

According to NPD Intelect, the Palm OS continued to have a huge lead over the Pocket PC in August in both numbers of units sold and in revenue. The unit market share for Palm OS-based devices remained stable with 82.5%. Its share of revenue was 78.5% in August. Pocket PCs made up just 13% of the number of units sold, significantly less than the total for just Handspring, the number two Palm OS licensee.

Palm Inc. still has slightly more than half the market itself, though its 51.2% share is a decrease from what it has had in the past. Handspring is in second place with 19.5% of unit sales, which is an increase on its percentage from the same month a year ago.

Sony made a decent showing during August, capturing 10.4% of the market. In August of 2000, Sony wasn't part of the top five.

The fourth and fifth spots were taken by Pocket PC licensees Compaq and Casio with 8.3% and 4.3% respectively.

The total number of handhelds of any kind sold at retail stores increased 11.9% in August over the same month a year ago. While this is a sign that the handheld market is increasing at a decent amount, it doesn't compare to the over 200% yearly growth seen in the past.

The results of the price war between Palm and its licensees showed up in the average cost of handheld. The average selling price for a Palm-branded unit is $242, a 12% decrease from the previous year. The average price for a Visor sold in August was $194, a 15.7% drop. Sony's average selling price was $275.

Testifying to the higher cost of the iPaq, the average cost of a Compaq unit was the highest for the top 5 at $418. Casio's was $132.

For the first time, NPD Intelect released consumer data which provides insight into consumer's reasons for picking the handheld they did. "It's a brand I trust" was the number one reason with 31% of respondents picking it. "It has the latest technology " was second at 19.5%. Third was "Product had the features I wanted" with 12.9%. "Recommended by a friend or relative" was fourth at 10.3% and "The brand is a good value for the money" was 10%. Stephen Baker, senior hardware analyst for NPD Intelect said, "This reaffirms advertising efforts by manufacturers to focus on brand when touting their products."

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Hey, Handera Trolls ...

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:13:09 PM #
... Have you read these stats?

Palm, Handspring and Sony control 81.1% of the market.
Compaq and Casio control 12.6% of the market.

That leaves 6.3% unspecified, but with Casio holding 4.3%, that means that Handera has less than that (and I would be guessing that HP have a hefty slice of that 6.3% as well).

Sorry, just pointing out this little tidbit. When you only seem to be able to buy the device at Sam's Club and online, it makes it kinda hard to take your "this is the best PDA ever" argument seriously.

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:25:43 PM #
It's pretty obvious who the troll is.

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
rldunn @ 10/12/2001 1:25:46 PM #
Not trying to incite anything, are you? I'm not a Handera user, much less a troll, but I do want to point out that where a device is sold has absolutely nothing to do with how good it is. It might reflect on the quality of their marketing department and and business goals, but not the device itself.

The group you should be targeting, if you want to incite someone, are the PPC camp, though even they would argue that the stats are skewed because everyone was waiting for PPC 2002. However, it's still comforting to know that Palm OS still account for well over 80% of handheld sales.

RE: Retail Only
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:28:46 PM #
These stats don't count any online sales. The only HandEra sales that would show up are the ones at Sam's Club. Doing stats this way kind of skews them away from online sellers. Why doesn't HandEra offer their hanhelds at Staples, Office Depot ETC? I think they'd do pretty good there. As it is, you have to do some research to even learn that the 330 exists. Most people pick a PDA in a retail store. Anyone know why they don't?

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
Altema @ 10/12/2001 1:30:43 PM #
The article was good news for everyone with Palm OS. The HandEra may be *your* least favorite, but it does have some unique features that some people prefer... even if they get a little TOO excited at times :-)

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:34:00 PM #
Developers of Palm Computing Platform are sure glade to know that Palm OS still have over 80% of the market share.

Corporate market
wilco @ 10/12/2001 1:55:11 PM #
Even when Handera is known as TRG, it had never aggressively tackled the retail market. It's market is mostly corporate, which is why the 330 stucked with the Palm III form factor and had Serial instead of USB connection.

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:11:23 PM #
I'm confused as to what makes a troll.

The dude's a troll because he likes Handera? I like the 330; I'm not a troll.
I don't think there is "a best". The 330 sucks ass for gaming; that's bad. It's great if you want the voice-mem-virt.graff, etc etc; that's good.
I like the Clie, too. That thing is tits!
I like the m505 form. I wish everything was as small.

I think its okay for everyone to like what they like without broad sweeping accusations of company affiliation and message board pollution.

And if that makes me a troll, then I'm going to hide under my PDA and collect money from all those who pass!!!

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:08:27 PM #
I think it's interesting that many people have forgotten what a "troll" is. A "troll" is someone who posts a (usually inflamatory) message on a board to generate lots of comments in order to scoop up email addresses to add to a mass-mailing list... "troll"ing for email addresses like a troller (fishing boat) trolls for fish (by dragging hooks behind the boat).

You really can't have a "troll" on an anonymous board like this. But you CAN be an "annoying jerk" for trotting out the same old "mine's better than yours" messages.

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 5:49:47 PM #
I want to be a troll!

RE: Hey, Handera Trolls ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 7:52:43 PM #
Please don't tease the HandEra geeks. They are very sensitive and whenever anyone points out the fact that their favorite big, ugly PDA isn't wanted by most PDA buyers, they take this as a personal insult.

It would be best if everyone here left the geeks alone and allowed HandEra to die a slow, natural death from benign neglect.

No color screen, ugly case, big, just got dumped by their only brick + mortar retailer (Sam's Club), glacial development cycle, overwhelming competition from other manufacturers, poor decisions in cost-cutting by their Asian contractor = HandEra filing for bankruptcy (along with Palm) Very Soon Now. CLIE owners shouldn't rub the HandEra geeks' noses in it.


A quick look at trolling.
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 6:03:05 AM #
For those who aren't familiar with the more 'Sophisticated' (for a bunch of cheap waterheads) Trolling stratagies, please take a look at:

Be sure to read the section 'Dealing with trolls'.

The point of trolling is the same one as vandalism or sabotage - Use simple techniques to make complex systems work against themselves.

Popular tactics:
- Dictionary/grammar attacks. ('You spell it "Attack", idiot!)
- Playing sides against each other.('X Sucks. Y Rocks.' 'Y rocks. X sucks' Lather. Rinse. Repeat.)
- Personal insults, to generate quicker response. ('Geeks' 'Babies' 'Losers')

Why do people do this kind of stuff? Beats me. Maybe they get paid by certain Washington State companies that have already been caught doing numerous dubious advertising/antico/ampractices.

See: Astroturfing -

If they're willing to pay $x0,000 for full-page ads in just about every magazine on the planet, how much more would this cost them?

Why can't you just IGNORE the 'Troll'
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 11:29:59 AM #
Let them go. And remember, "One man's Troll is another man's Advocate." How about nobody uses the word "Troll" anymore??? I'm so tired of seeing it.

Handheld prevalence?

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:07:37 PM #
I'm curious if there is a ranking anywhere that shows how many of each model have been sold and/or are in use?

The reason I ask is that I saw a posting by a Handera user claiming that "There are more Handera users than Clie users..." and it just got me thinking about whether there are any statistics published on this? I'm sure there are, I just haven't been able to find them.

My bet would be that there are more Palm III devices out there, followed by Palm Vs and Vx units. But that's just a guess.

RE: Handheld prevalence?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 1:41:07 PM #
Go away troll. Nobody said there are more Handera users than Clie users, except maybe those voices in your head. Do you have to post this junk in every thread on this site? Do you have nothing better to do?

RE: Handheld prevalence?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:12:50 PM #
First of all, I don't see how my comment the first one) is trollish. Sure, I guess I can't be certain that the posting I read was posted by a "Handera user", but I figured it to be a safe assumption.

Second, it seems pretty foolish to try to call someone a liar here. You have no proof that I'm making it up, and I don't care so much to go find and quote the posting back for your benefit.

The fact is, I saw that comment. I was curious about how handhelds rank in usage or units. I asked a question in what, I had assumed, is a mature forum for such questions. Unfortunately, your response disproves my last assumption.

By the way, I'm a Clie user - neither pro-Palm nor anti-Handera. I think the market will bear what it can bear, and only time will tell.

RE: Handheld prevalence?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:34:28 PM #
So where did someone say, "There are more Handera users than Clie users..."? All I have seen this week is that every time the person that runs this site posts a new news article, no matter what the article is about, someone rushes in to make a couple of posts trying to make HandEra or its users sound bad. It apparently hasn't stopped yet. Grow up.

RE: Handheld prevalence?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:04:11 PM #
Sad to see that you not only can't read, but you're offensive as well. As if calling someone names will make you appear any more intelligent.

In my response I clearly state "I don't care so much to go find and quote the posting back for your benefit" - and that still stands. I know what I read, and you calling me names and insinuating that I am lying means little to me.

"Go away troll"? Keep baiting if you wish, but this is my last response. I'd hope to see an intelligent one at some point that addresses my question about a ranking.

Also, today was the very first time I've ever posted on Palm Infocenter (although I read the postings daily), so your baseless accusation that I have to "post this junk in every thread" once again shows your lack of maturity.

RE: Handheld prevalence?
Ia3n @ 10/13/2001 12:42:27 AM #
Everyone shut up. S/he's not trying to be a troll.
Whoever you are, I suggest you register and try your luck with the forums. The people are nicer there.
I'm also wondering the same thing, I'll post something about it in the forums myself and tell you if anyone answers.

Casio Average Selling Price $132???

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:20:53 PM #
What PDAs is Casio Selling for under $132 to average down the $299 BE-300 and $399 E-125? Does this number include their sales of Casio Boss Personal Organizers? I wonder who would be number 4 if this included only PalmOS and WindowsCE (Sony Perhaps).

RE: Casio Average Selling Price $132???
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 2:29:42 PM #
I mean number 5 on the list. :-)

RE: Casio Average Selling Price $132???
Altema @ 10/12/2001 4:35:43 PM #
Casio sells a number of low-end pim devices that have just the basic functions. They only caught my attention because they advertise 180 hours of battery life. Taking a closer look, the fine print says that battery life is 180 hours with the device in the Contacts list and no activity. Basicaly, this is how long it can keep the lcd screen on with out being used.

Pocket PC users where are you?

skoty @ 10/12/2001 3:30:06 PM #
It's funny how I haven't seen a single comment yet from a Pocket PC bigot telling everyone that his/her handheld is better than any PalmOS device. Well, apparently from these stats, fewer people are falling into the Microsoft trap of terse error messages and memory hungry programs than Bill Gates would like.

Kudos to everyone who is smart enough to use a PalmOS device and avoid the headache and heartache of Pocket PCs.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:54:17 PM #
I'm not trying to start a war here, but different platform has different strength and weakness. Indeed, PocketPC has many usability problems in mobile platform, but PocketPC 2002 has addressed some of their issues (Despite Microsoft's high cost software, at least they treat a customer like a customer).

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
MaximumPDA @ 10/12/2001 6:08:57 PM #
Why would a PocketPC user post here? Isnt this a Palm site?? Just an observation.


PDA News and Reviews @

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
geekd @ 10/12/2001 7:24:45 PM #
You'd think so, but they always seem to show up anyway....

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
TDS @ 10/12/2001 9:07:27 PM #
OK, I'll make you feel better...
My Ipaq can display Photographic quality images, play MP3 files, record digital audio, palyback movies, etc...

I think it can also be used for things like contact management & scheduling, but by the time I tried to use those features, my battery was dead...


RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:19:51 PM #
Don't ever underestimate Microsoft. Ever. Just look at where Netscape, WordPerfect, etc. used to be and where they are now. Netscape used to laugh at Microsoft's Internet Explorer, just as Palm supporters now try to minimize the threat of PocketPC with all the bravado of a guppy swimming in a fish tank.

Given how quickly Palm has fallen in the past 12 months, the LAST thing Palm fans should be is overconfident about the platform's viability. Palm could easily be bankrupt by Christmas. The only reason we may have a guaranteed future for the OS is the major investment Sony is making in their PDAs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony controlling over 20 %of the market within a few months.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 9:55:27 PM #
But it also doesn't pay to OVERestimate Microsoft. They have failed before. Ever heard of Microsoft Publisher? That's what is supposed to run PageMaker out of business. Not showing any signs of doing it so far. They also made a appie to compete with PhotoShop. Can't remember what it was called and it doesn't really matter because it bombed so badly Microsoft stopped making it. MSN is barely struggling along after huge cutbacks in the past few years and AOL is still making them look like fools.

Microsoft's desktop monopoly and 50% markups give them deep pockets to play with and they seem willing to lose huge amounts of money on their handheld OS. But they aren't unbeatable.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 10:11:30 PM #
Anybody remember Microsoft Access? It was an attempt by Microsoft in the late 80's or early 90's to make a communications program. It failed. They then used the same name for the database they make now.

A PPC Troll right here :-)
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 12:34:39 AM #
well I am a Pocket PC Troll..

I visit this site almost every day. I do it mostly because I get a kick out of watching a bunch of Low iQ'ed people use their simplicity but over glorified calculators to keep their TO DO list. I like watching people fall on their face.. and large corperations for that matter. I come here, read the articles, and laugh at the users who post and use their Palms.

I mean I congratulate Palm for being lucky.... That's all.. but intheir luck they realized they had targed a market which is very profitable. They manged to sell a device to a bunch of Dummies under the name of SIMPLICITY and you know what?? The Dummies bought it. I mean we all know there are more dummiess than smart people in the world. That is way only 5% of the people in America control all the money used in America.

I'm not cutting on the people here.. I love my Pocket PC. I used to be a Palm user, but moved on. This post really is directed to Skoty who started this thread. Let Palm users be Palm users. Who cares...
But think of this Skoty.....
The PPC's today are the Palms of tomorrow. Even the OS as you know it will not be the same. Let alone the hardware..battery life, and size of Palms future PDAs. So I laugh at you...And your pea size intellegence. Because when Palm turns out devices like the PPC's I am sure you will be the first one in line to buyone, glorifying in technolgy which PPC had already done.

Besides.. here are some other STATs, you may get a kick from about PALMS and PPCs.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/13/2001 5:05:31 AM #
These are the stats that the previous guy was linking to in his post.

Worldwide PDA market declined 21% overall in Q2, 2001
Excluding Palm, the worldwide market grew by 8% (translation: people are not buying Palms)
Q2 2000 to Q2 2001: Palm 54% down to 32%
Worldwide 2001 Q2: Pocket PC is at 35%, Palm at 65%
Q2 2001 Palm Europe sales: 40.5%
Q2 2001 Pocket PC Europe sales: 40.6%

This is classic example of marketing hocus pocus that are suppose to mislead people to believe that something may have an advantage over the other. To the untrained eye these numbers might be telling, but to anyone who has any marketing background you can see that these stats are handpicked. individual stats like the one presented above when presented by themselves certainly look convincing, but once you compare them agains something, they will most definately look much different.

Excluding Palm, the worldwide market grew by 8% (translation: people are not buying Palms)

This doesnt say anything. Other then the fact that the translation is a unbased conclusion there is no time basis to confirm or deny this presumtion. Also people may not be buying Palms, but they may be buying handsprings, sony's, and handeras.

Q2 2000 to Q2 2001: Palm 54% down to 32%

Again these numbers dont say anything. Are these units sold, market share, revenue? Everyone pretty much knows why Q2 of 2001 was a bad time for palm. The first stat clearly stated that the overall PDA market was down in this quarter. The slowdown in the industry plus the fact that Palm preannounced the m500's too soon lead to this dip in whatever number this is. Again this is not compared to anything. What are the numbers of the other manufacturers?

Worldwide 2001 Q2: Pocket PC is at 35%, Palm at 65%

There is something clearly wrong with these numbers. What do these numbers represent? The percentage totals to 100% so i guess psion's, rex'es and other PDA's are not included in these numbers.

Q2 2001 Palm Europe sales: 40.5%
Q2 2001 Pocket PC Europe sales: 40.6%

Again we all know how Q2 was Palm. But dispite this enormous advantage of 0.1 percentage point by PPC in europe compared to numbers in the US market, and Asian Market they certainly would look different.

Finally these are merely trends and it says nothing about the general overview of the PDA industry. I am not saying these numbers are false. They just cant be taken at face value.

RE: Calculators
RoofusPennymore @ 10/13/2001 9:28:03 AM #
Hmmm... I stull use a calculator too.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
skoty @ 10/13/2001 10:40:15 AM #
I think the relevance of the stats the PPC user posted has already been addressed adequately. In a nutshell, many if his stats actually are talking about percentage growth rather than market share. It's kind of hard for Palm to have huge growth in market share when they already have over 80%.

>The PPC's today are the Palms of tomorrow.

I think you've got this one backwards. As far as add-ons go and extras, I think everyone's playing catch-up to Handspring, including PocketPCs. Yeah, you guys have GPS, MP3 players, and (CF) memory extensions, but who had em first? Handspring. Who has more (different) memory extensions available now than any other PDA manufacturer, Pocket PC included? Handspring(CF, SM, Mem Sticks, and MMC).

>Even the OS as you know it will not be the same.

This is a half-truth. Yes, I expect the OS to evolve and become more refined over time. No, I don't expect for Palm to become so relaxed in their OS development that it becomes as sloppy and memory hungry as the Pocket PC is.

This is exactly the kind of bigot I was talking about. The kind that says, "Mine's better than yours, but I don't care that yours does this, and has that, and that... I wouldn't use that anyway... here look at these numbers I found on the PPC Site... see Big Brother tells me I'm winning..."

Someone else has mentioned that we should not underestimate Microsoft, sitting what happened to Netscape. Microsoft had an advantage over Netscape because I could just start bundling IE with Windows, make it undeletable, and it would be easier for people to use than Netscape. What's Microsoft going to do to force people to use their PPCs? Bundle them with their desktop OS. Not likely. What are they going to do to make it harder for PalmOS users to do their backups with their OS? Make it harder for the USB and Serial ports to be used by the Palm Desktop? Not likely.

PalmOS is going to be around for a long time. PalmOS users, our investment is safe. In the unlikely event that the economy stays bad for the next 5-6 years, Handspring and Palm might fold because their pockets aren't that deep. Sony will stay. PalmOS development will continue. The PalmOS will not follow the likes of Apple and Netscape lying dead in the wake of Microsoft. Rest assured PalmOS users, it's here to stay.

RE: A PPC Troll right here :-)
Altema @ 10/13/2001 6:11:18 PM #
Thanks for the entertaining post. But,.. you obviously have not used a Palm in quite a while, or your early experience was quite shallow. In light of this I can see your viewpoint, but it is not fair to judge how others use their devices, or judge how intelligent they may be, based on their handheld preference. Just so you do not put me in your pigeon hole, I'm a telecommunications network engineer who also holds two audio engineering degrees and a U.S. Patent on one of my inventions. That is not a boast, it is just to let you know I made it past the third grade and do not have any serious mental retardation (at least I hope!). I work in world where there are both Palms and PPCs. The PPC users are my friends and are quite intelligent, however, the Palm users are also my friends, and do not suffer from lack of intelligence either. In the workplace, the PPC users have no advantage. There is nothing work related in their capability that the Palms have not been able to perform with equal, or greater, proficiency. Our corporation has over 14,000 staff members which include Doctors, Professors, Research Scientists, and, yes, even Brain Surgeons. We are an openly-declared Microsoft shop that shuns everything non-Microsoft unless there is no alternative. There IS an alternative to Palm, and it IS Microsoft based. However, our corporation has rejected the PPC platform every year since its introduction. This does not eliminate the choice, you can still use one if you like, but it will not be paid for by purchasing, serviced by our technicians, nor supported by our Field Engineers. The only way PPC, in its current state, will surpass the Palm OS platform, is to make people THINK it can do something useful that a Palm cannot. In that respect, you are just doing your job, but novelty functions don't butter the bread when it comes to workload. I admire your enthusiasm, but it needs to be directed toward advancing the technology, not cutting others down.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/14/2001 10:08:07 AM #
Now here's a comment that is both refreshing and informative. There is no sense of "mine is better than yours." Rather, it's objective with a real world perspective. Kudos to you, Altema, for going against the stream and injecting some maturity and insight into what was deteriorating into childish banter.

RE: Pocket PC users where are you?
robrecht @ 10/14/2001 10:13:34 AM #
Excellent response, Altema.

Our IT department also discourages the use of PPCs, desptite that fact that we use M$ whenever we can. It seems their operating system is just not as reliable for most users.

Thanks, Robrecht

Trolls, Trekkies, and Trekkers

I.M. Anonymous @ 10/12/2001 4:49:14 PM #
Nice to finally learn what a "troll" really is.

So, why are there so many inmature posters on this site? Perhaps it's because these cool gadgets attract trekkies or trekkers.

Anyone know what the difference is between trekkies and trekkers???

Ed, please...some help here!

JET8810 @ 10/12/2001 5:44:29 PM #
Ed, I have noticed that this site is beggining to look like a troll hangout and there are lots of junk posts. It has gotten really bad over the past 6 months...please do something about it! I do not want to make any more work for you, as you have enough already, but isn't their something you can do? How about requiring registration to post, therefore the trolls will stop posting....just an idea...

Thank you,

RE: Ed, please...some help here!
Pepper @ 10/12/2001 6:27:48 PM #

I've pretty much stopped posting on the articles. occasionally i'll have something fairly important to say that is relavent to an article, but i find the flames to be a bit annoying.

my solution was to go to the forums. lotsa nice people there and i rarely get flamed (and normally i deserve it if i am). its a great way to actually discuss issues without flames


I love my Palm . . . do you?

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