Rumor: Sony to Release S360

According to the online retailer J&R, Sony has discontinued the S320 and will soon be replacing it with the PEG-S360, which will have 16 MB of RAM instead of the S320's 8 MB. It will cost $200, which is the price the S320 was released at, though it has since been dropped to $170. Of course, the S360 will run some version of OS 4, presumably 4.1. J&R doesn't know when it will have the S360 in stock; it's just telling its customers who try to order it that it'll be in very soon. It is already taking pre-orders for the new model.

Rumors have been circulating that the S320 had been discontinued since Sony started listing it on their webstore as "sold out". The only times in the past Sony has allowed this to happen have been when it was about to discontinue a product.

There had been speculation that the S320 would be replaced with a member of Sony's new T line; however, naming it the S360 is a very strong indication that this will essentially be the S320 with an updated OS and more RAM.

The N610C is also being listed as "sold out" at SonyStyle. It is expected to be replaced by a U.S. version of the T600C in the near future.

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SONY sets the pace

I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 10:37:08 AM #
....will others keep up?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 10:43:33 AM #
Yes, Sony sets the pace of dropping their relatively current products like flies. No OS 4.x for the older S series, even though people paid money for flash ROM on them. I can only assume that this new S360 still doesn't work with any of the the MemoryStick devices designated as only for the N and T series. The N series devices were pretty nice, and then they release the T415 with its garbage screen. With the T series out, I'd guess the N series will be dead soon, if not already. For Sony, their one hand doesn't know what the other is doing in the PDA market.


RE: SONY sets the pace
Ronin @ 1/2/2002 10:43:54 AM #
You know comments like this really confuse me.

How is this setting the pace. I read on this site comments, all the time that, the Palm OS has had no improvements in years (although I disagree with this, it is regularly repeated in comments here). That minor changes in the hardware, i.e. the addition of greater memory is not enough to save Palm.

One could just as easily pose these comments in relation to this device or for that matter any of the Sony devices that have been released over the past year with the exception of their first wave of new devices. Each newly released device has been incremental in nature and has appeared in a remarkably short time after the device it is replacing. In fact, one could argue that this short product span will/is hurting the Palm handheld market. I am not going to go into any Sony bashing here because it is not necessary or appropriate, each of the Palm licensees (including Palm) advance the platform and cater to a different market segment. Too me this is a good thing because I believe that this is the true we to keep Palm alive in the long run, with diversification of the product line. Unlike the PPC devices that are virtually identical at this point, when you shop for a Palm there is real choice.

Anyway, if one is being completely impartial in examining the Palm licensee landscape, the innovator head and shoulders above the other (even without a color screen) is HandEra. But even with HandEra's innovation (dual expansion, high-res screen, virtual graffiti area) they have not set the world on fire. So maybe, just maybe we tech nerds that visit this site and others like it need to have a broader view of the actual market and make room for the realities of the situation.

Finally, while I look forward to the developments that this year may bring, I hope that Palm devices do not become more complicated because of it. I hope, that more capable does not need to be synonymous with complicated.

RE: SONY sets the pace
Ed @ 1/2/2002 10:46:36 AM #
Don't forget, Handspring released the first Palm OS model with 16 MB of RAM back in September.

---
News Editor
RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 10:47:53 AM #
Nobody can keep up with the speed at which Sony releases/obsoletes it's products... most of the time not even their customers.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 11:02:59 AM #
The $200 price tag will force Handspring to drop the $300 price of it's 16 Meg Visor Pro.

Palm's m125 is a bit over priced ($200) if this rumor is true. What will palm do w/ all the m125's.

Say what you want about Sony, but my 7 month old 710c still rocks.

Mark



RE: SONY sets the pace
mikecane @ 1/2/2002 11:08:40 AM #
Waiting for PalmOS 4.1 -- for my S320!

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 11:11:07 AM #
Sony is the PALM hardware killer. 200 bucks for 16MB of RAM and a memory stick slot.

Oh, and to the Handera guy, what have they released in the past year other than the 330? Nada.

RE: SONY sets the pace
scaught @ 1/2/2002 11:16:58 AM #
oh. so its quantity rather than quantity that impresses you? handera should have released a couple dozen different handhelds and given them all shoddy support?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 11:17:49 AM #
> Oh, and to the Handera guy, what have they released in
> the past year other than the 330? Nada.

I think that was his point. Sony is releasing and obsoleting lots of devices, but as far as innovative features go, they haven't offered much new other than hi-res color. If this S360 is just a 16MB S320 with Palm OS 4.x, it is actually a much less significant upgrade than Handspring did with the Pro (added rechargable battery). Heck, even the TRGpro was far more innovative than the S320 and was released years before it.

If I was someone with an S320, I'd probably rather see Sony give me an OS upgrade than tell me my relatively new handheld is dead and essentially tell me to get an S360. Anyhow, HandEra has released various OS upgrades as well as new CF drivers like 802.11b support for both the TRGpro and 330 since the 330's release. Features much more interesting than sticking more RAM in the S320 and an OS upgrade (that they won't even sell to their current customers) and calling it a new model. By Sony's standards, HandEra probably has released 2 or 3 models this year.


RE: SONY sets the pace
Dark @ 1/2/2002 11:29:03 AM #
IMHO, Sony is doing a good job of improving their hardware and still manage to sell them at a lower price. This stirs the competition. We now have a lot of devices to choose from compared before when people had to spend $350+ for a Palm III. It's all up to the educated buyer where to put those hard-earned bucks.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 11:36:23 AM #
> We now have a lot of devices to choose from compared
> before when people had to spend $350+ for a Palm III.

Uh, that was Handspring that helped provide more options and brought the prices down since the Palm III.


RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 11:46:16 AM #
What's the BIG DEAL with Sony phasing out older models of their CLIE? Are you guys still PalmOS users? Why do you have to chase new models of CLIE while you can be perfectly happy with your old Palm III before?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 12:21:49 PM #
I think I have problems with calling a model that's only a few months old "older" and Sony's willingness to completely drop support for it. Basically Sony wants to treat these devices like TVs or CD players, and not like the computers that they are.

RE: SONY sets the pace
Ronin @ 1/2/2002 12:33:52 PM #
>>I think I have problems with calling a model that's only a few months old "older" and Sony's willingness to completely drop support for it. Basically Sony wants to treat these devices like TVs or CD players, and not like the computers that they are. <<

I have to agree with this comment.

Sony is an excellent consumer electronics company, they stay abreast of the competition and do not hesitate to add new features to their products. Unfortunately, a computer (even a handheld one) should not be on the same type of product cycle. First, when you put a device on this type of cycle the interest of significant customer support is diminished because the device is no longer being produced.

Second, I buy a Sony VCR and two weeks later Sony discontinues my model and releases a new VCR with one more feature, two weeks after discontinues that new model and releases another model with one more additional feature. Six months of this and you might a VCR on the market that truly does something that the one I bought does not but this is not such a big deal because it is still a VCR and it still works and does the job well. Also because the VCR is a consumer product it is probably cheaper to replace it then to get it repaired if it is out of warranty, so the notion of it being obsolete is not a significant consideration. When a computer device is treated as a commodity like this, the value of your $200 - $500 investment is diminished far sooner than one should reasonably expect and all because of incremental, superceding devices. Soon the device you bought just 3 months ago will be on a shelf at a small electronics store for $50 right beside the Sony radio/cassette player.

Is that what we, as users, really want?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 12:35:04 PM #
My issue is with a few of the above posters who say that Sony is making current models 'obsolete' when a new model comes out. When the 760 came out, the 710 didn't magically become obsolete...it was, and still is, an exellent PalmOS-based handheld. If you think the new S360 makes the S320 model obsolete, then you could argue that when the Palm Vx came out, the V immediately became obsolete. Well, I know three people that I work with who are perfectly happy with their 2MB Palm V's, and have no need to upgrade any time soon. Believe me, when a 16MB replacement for my N760 comes out, I will be a bit bummed...but that doesn't make the PDA that I chose at the time, and I use everyday instantly obsolete...it's the same PDA I was happy to shell out my hard-earned $$ for in the first place.

Sony has pushed the PalmOS (at least in its current version) to a place no one could have envisioned just 12 months ago, and the whole PalmOS community is benefitting. Hey...a 16MB Palm device with expansion and a jog dial for $200!! That's great no matter how you look at it (I remember paying $399.00 for a Palm IIIx not too many years ago!). And just think of the lucky people who were able to snap up N710's, N610's, and now S320's for great, low prices.

I fail to see any problem with having more choices available...

Just my 2 cents worth.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 12:35:29 PM #
When I say sony has set the pace, I am referring to the combnination of innovation and reasonable prices. If Sony was not around the H'spring 16MB device would have been released 6 mos later for $350, not $300. I really don't like the ergonomics of Sony's products, and I don't own one. But they have forced H'spring and Palm (which I do buy) to price their PDA's more as a commodities, and less as "special little magic boxes" that they only can make, roll out SLOWLY, and charge a fortune for.

For that, SONY ROCKS!!

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 12:46:26 PM #
> When I say sony has set the pace, I am referring to
> the combnination of innovation and reasonable prices.

There still isn't anything innovative about the S360. You could just as easily say that the Handspring Neo and Pro were setting the pace a month ago. For that matter, if you don't need an expansion slot, Palm sets the pace then.

RE: SONY sets the pace
Ronin @ 1/2/2002 12:52:55 PM #
<<When I say sony has set the pace, I am referring to the combnination of innovation and reasonable prices. If Sony was not around the H'spring 16MB device would have been released 6 mos later for $350, not $300. I really don't like the ergonomics of Sony's products, and I don't own one. But they have forced H'spring and Palm (which I do buy) to price their PDA's more as a commodities, and less as "special little magic boxes" that they only can make, roll out SLOWLY, and charge a fortune for.

For that, SONY ROCKS!!>>

I agree with this comment, to an point.

Sony has been very aggressive in pricing their devices. And this has certainly caused both Palm and Handspring to forego the pricing scheme that they enjoyed for so long (although I am sure that the downturn in the economy had a little to do with this as well). But competition is something different from what Sony seems to be doing which is releasing new devices with minimal changes and an incredibly short life span. For example, with built-in memory expansion, isn't addition of increased internal memory a minor upgrade? And doesn't it beg the question that if they can release a device for the same price and form factor, why didn't they do it originally?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 1:37:52 PM #
> I fail to see any problem with having more choices available...

There aren't any problems, you're analysis is correct.
No one in their right mind would be "bummed" over the release of a $200 pda with 16MB of memory....EXCEPT someone who just doled out $170 for a S320 (to those, my condolences).

My guess is that these complainers are the same people who haven't missed a single Windows upgrade since 3.0 and they're finding it financially difficult to buy every new pda that pops up at CompUSA.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 1:55:41 PM #
Its all about competition... when only palm existed they set the pace of innovation and it was slowww!

Enter handspring and TRG and it picked up again, but the innovation model now was... stay with what we have until a competitor innovates something new, then one up it with the next release. This somewhat shortened the pace of innovation but it was still slow as both companies would only release new product when they felt they needed to to maintain market share, etc. In other words their sales were dropping so its time for something new.

Sony takes a different approach to this for better or worse... they see it as a consumer product like a walkman or minidisk player. They are used to adjusting their products very frequently as the consumer segment is MUCH more competitive than the handheld market is. Its not likely sony will change and their approach will force the competition to keep up or be left behind. Im sure customer support will suffer, and sonys upgrade policy stinks... but on the plus side theres something new to drool over much more frequently and just as frequently you can find old models at great prices on clearance.

As far as innovation goes... most of the licensees have done something... its palm that lags behind in general.

Sony - Highres pixel doubled screen, VFS, Jog Dial
Handera - Proprietary CF support (later VFS), hires reflective TFT, soft graffiti.
Handspring - Springboard, 16mb, first 33mhz unit.
Palm - PalmVII wireless, palmV formfactor.

Im sure im missing some things, but most companies have done some innovation... palm counted on this, and they are the folks that merge all the innovation into the next OS release. I figure they did this so they wouldnt have to spend as much time on R&D but they didnt count on how 'behind' their units seem as it takes a few months or longer for new features to make their way into the Palm OS proper.

Battery Peformance Tests and More at... http://www.pocket-gizmos.com

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 4:04:10 PM #
It's funny...

When someone actually is innovating, there's still people who whine. People want this and that, but when they finally get it, they still find something to complain. You folks are pretty sad.

Get a life!

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 5:11:30 PM #
Yeah, it's funny. Nothing pleases people. If a company innovates too much, then people are pissed off because of so-called "obsolescence". If a company doesn't innovate, people are pissed off.

Well, take your bitchin' elsewhere. If you don't like Sony's than go buy yourself a Palm Vx or the ever stellar m505 with crappy backlight.

'Nuf said.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 5:58:06 PM #
Sorry, but Sony hasn't innovated since the 710, it has just obsoleted.

RE: SONY sets the pace
Coyote67 @ 1/2/2002 6:08:18 PM #
Sony's problem is that they don't understand the Handheld market. It isn't like dvd players, where once you sell it, support from the manuf. is pretty much not needed. DVD players or TVs have no upgrades because if people just kept using their old equipment, the profit would dry up. People buy new TVs or DVD players or whatever when there is some new innovative useful feature that they don't already have. Handhelds are not like this. Handheld users need to be supported by their manuf./OS developer to make sure their current features are used to their fullest. People buy handhelds only when they feel they have gotten the most out of their current device. Sony needs to realize this or they will lose customers fast.

---------------------------------------
When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.
RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 6:25:26 PM #
> Sony needs to realize this or they will lose customers fast.

***

This statement confirms why you are not making the big bucks as a marketing guru or subgenius.

Sony went from 0% market share to 11% in less than a year. They must be doing something right to attract customers.

RE: SONY sets the pace
jeremyf @ 1/2/2002 6:27:13 PM #
Whatever. You guys are nuts.

I bought my 900 mhz dell back in february. A month later they had 1ghz. Then 1.13ghz. Then 1.3ghz. Now they're up to 2ghz!!

Dell doesn't care about their customers! They should still be selling my 900mhz dell for the same price!!

As for Sony dropping support, they still support the ancient S300 and release updates for it. And even if they do "drop support," it's a Palm device. There are a million avenues for Palm support, like this one right here.

RE: SONY sets the pace
Ronin @ 1/2/2002 6:43:04 PM #
Comparing the PC to the handheld market is like comparing apples to oranges. But I should point out that the PC market and PC makers are struggling right now because of the very same approach to the market that Sony is taking. The PC makers serve up product that has minor, barely noticeable additions/configurations and no one upgrades because there is no reason to do so. The days when people upgraded a PC to solely get a faster CPU so they could run the current crop of software are long gone because the average user has no need for that power any more because the PC they have can run the latest and greatest software with any trouble. And the days when you had to upgrade your PC to run the latest and greatest version of Windows are gone too. No PC are dirt cheap and they are not selling enough for these companies to make decent money because they have become a commodity. I would prefer that Palm did not go that route because I believe true innovation would suffer.

Granted Sony released a compelling product early last year but since then, describing the parade of devices they have released as innovation is stretching the definition of this much abused word to new heights. And if you are truly excited about the release of this device and the discontinuance of the S320 (so shortly after its release) then I am forced to conclude that it is because it has the SONY name on it. If this was released by Palm, I am sure that the cries of correcting mistakes; too little, too late, etc. would be deafening.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 6:58:22 PM #
Please do not flame me for saying this, but sony nor does palm set any pace. Sorry to say, but many people have their own ideas of what is needed and what should be on this, that, etc. Sony is obviously not aiming for the enterprise market, they are aiming for the consumer market, they might be known to set the pace for what CONSUMERS like to see. But a mjority of consumers did not buy a palmos pda for multimedia. So now you can say they set the pace for that group. Now handspring has their new TREO almost out, that is to be aimed at the Enterprise market, as will the i705 from palm. They might be known to set the pace for the enterprise market. In other words, who ever is setting the pace is in determined by what you prefer personally, not in general. Not a fight, just my 2 cents :D. Happy new year all BTW!
PDANature - http://pdan.has.it - Great hourly refreshed pda news, discussions, chat, reviews, commentarys, software, software update notices, features, and what not! Simply the best. http://pdan.has.it

RE: SONY sets the pace
Coyote67 @ 1/2/2002 10:00:27 PM #
*Sony went from 0% market share to 11% in less than a year. They must be doing something right to attract customers.*

You don't understand the idea of market saturation. Its the same reason why PC market has pretty much died out. Once everyone has a handheld, few will upgrade. It goes back to that first "Wow" effect also. A general idea in marketting is that the wow effect sells. Sony got Palm people who saw something new. Now once they get everyone and their family dog to have a handheld. Why would anyone want to buy a new one if its pretty much the same except with oh....a universal connector, or a useless expansion slot. Slight differences are nice, but so is distinctive innovative improvements. Sony hasn't done this for a while,just like palm did.


---------------------------------------
When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 10:21:23 PM #
The fact IS Sony does set the pace.

Years ago, Palm was the only player (I had a Palm III), then came Handspring with its PDAs (I upgraded to the incredibly thin Edge model), but now Sony is the innovator PDA manufacturer.

I bought a color Sony 610 (upgraded from the Edge) a few months ago, and couldn't be more happier with it. Two friends in my office recently purchased Sony Clies and it seems Sony is now the name of the game.

It's sad that Palm and Handspring got caught napping at their own game only to be surpassed by the newcomer in this market. Good luck to Sony and keep the new models coming...

RE: SONY sets the pace - so what?
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/2/2002 10:33:23 PM #
Granted that Sony keeps rolling out new models every few months - so what? Good for them. More of you PDA wannabees will pay full retail price for the exclusivity of being the 1st one to own the new models, while us real users will be buying your used "obsolete" models for 1/2 off on eBay. A PDA is suppose to help you organize and save time, but you all keep spending the saved time discussing more about PDAs. Net gain = zero.

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/3/2002 12:08:43 AM #
I wonder if Sony is making any money on their PDAs? My guess would be that they are not even close to profitability. I think Sony is aiming not to compete, but to eliminate the smaller competitors in the PDA market -- notably Handspring and Handera. They can afford to drown the market with releases after releases because they can take moeny from one department and give it to the other. Handspring, Handera and Palm does not have that option.

RE: SONY sets the pace
SaxonMan @ 1/3/2002 12:09:51 AM #
First of all I want to criticize that Sony doesnít take of their customer (technical support). Ok that might be true.
But donít you see that Sony is redefining the whole Palm OS Handheld market.
I personally own a Visor Platin. I bought it in Nov. í00. Back then I think this handheld gave you the best performance for your money. Thatís ok.
So why are you guys complaining about that Palms are getting better and cheaper. Isnít this the way itís supposed to be? Sony does a great job in producing new handhelds. If they keep on doing this they going to overtake the Palm OS market pretty soon.
Sony is really setting the pace. Yeah palms are losing their values very very fast. Thatís true. But nobody can stop this.
The new S360 gives you nice performance for your money. I think this handheld doesnít really have a competitor. I mean look at Handspringís Neo. 200 bucks for a palm running (still!!?) 3.52, 8MB, AAA batteries and a plastic cover. I think thatís a joke. I used to like Handspring very much. But their quality is really not what you can except from a ( back then $299 device ). I mean the buttons are barely working and itís getting even worse. I mean why are they producing the Treos with OS 3.x?
Good job Sony and keep on producing nice customer orientated handhelds.
But I see no real use for a new Handheld. Maybe in 12 months. I believe in Palm OS 5.
The product pipeline is ok. And Iím a pretty positive that Palm OS wonít give Windows CE a chance ( ya I know I should say Windows powered handheldsÖ excuse me ).
Or do u guys have another opinion about it?
Please let me know!

SaxonMan

RE: SONY sets the pace
SaxonMan @ 1/3/2002 12:34:56 AM #
Last but not least. I would like to mention that people who are clicking on this website know what handhelds are. But the most people i know dont barely know how to use a palm.
Let's call those people uneducated ( when we are talking about handhelds ). But "uneducated" people dont compare prices ( like www.pricewatch.com www.ebay.com ) nor really care about the latest palm models i think we should realize that!

Second, the palm hardware isn't that great! Isn't the software which make your system overall valuable?
Software like WordSmith, ThinkDB, NoahPro, ActionNames, SilverScreen, AvantGo, PowerOne Graph set the pace to.
Don't they make your palm worth the money?
ThirdParty products like memory expansions, the Stowaway Keyboard ( which i own ) and other think i forgot. They make your palm useful.

yours
SaxonMan
long live the intelligent user!

If u wanna criticize my english and tell me that a person who writes this cant be intelligent...
maybe that's because i'm german.


RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/3/2002 8:31:18 AM #
Sorry, but once again Sony's only innovation has been a hi-res color screen. There has been nothing innovative from Sony since the 710, but lots of new models.

Comparing what Sony is doing to coming out with a PC with a faster processor is flawed logic. That older PC can still use the same peripherals, and unless it is really old, it supports the latest OS upgrades and you still get support from the vendor. In comparison, Sony obsoletes recent models by not providing (or making it darn difficult to get) OS updates for essentially identical models, changes connectors, and/or creates MemoryStick devices that work with this device but not that one for no real reason.

I half think that some of the Sony fanatics here are deluded by the fact that their devices are so new that they don't realize that Sony has already dropped them.

RE: SONY sets the pace
TDS @ 1/3/2002 8:53:55 AM #
To the gentleman that complained about the Handsprings still running 3.52 OS. Remember that a very large amount of the code in 4.0 comes right from Handsprings OS 3.52. The USB code, 16 bit support, and I think even the silent alarm are the ones that come to mind. I agree that the Treo should have OS 4.1 just because it is the latest, and it would sound better from a marketing standpoint. But in reality there is not a huge change between 3.52 & 4.1

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 1/3/2002 9:39:54 AM #
Does the Treo support the Telephony Manager API that is in Palm OS 4.x?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 12:14:01 AM #
I've been reading the comments made about Sony's incredible rate of upgrading their Clie's. I agree with many statements made. Pumping out new models of Clie's (especially S series) is kind of a bummer. However, it is like someone said, the changes are not that significant. In the case of the S360 it was only a little extra RAM. Fine, if S320 users really need that extra memory, they can get 128MB more if they want for a few extra bucks. No big deal.
However, what gets me is the way they made the S360 model incomapitble with 320 accesories. For example I wanted to get a Targus Keyboard for my 360, but since they changed the connector, the new 360 is not compatible with the keyboard anymore.
My comment is if they want to pump out new models like their life depended on it, that's fine. But at least make the accesories interchangable. I mean, don't change the stuff that doesn't need to be changed--like the connectivity port! Would you agree?

RE: SONY sets the pace
I.M. Anonymous @ 2/27/2002 12:24:03 AM #
"However, what gets me is the way they made the S360 model incomapitble with 320 accesories. For example I wanted to get a Targus Keyboard for my 360, but since they changed the connector, the new 360 is not compatible with the keyboard anymore. "

Check the facts b4 talking out of your *** please, the S-series and N-series has the same freaking connector, just the T-seriese has a smaller connector.

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