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Comments on: Samsung i800 ALP Handset Cancelled by Orange

Samsung i800 ALP CancelledThe uncertain future facing the ALP aka the Access Linux Platform, the latest effort from the entity formerly known as PalmSource and now part of Japan's Access Software, just became increasingly grim if the latest report from the Inquirer is correct.

In short, the article claims that the Samsung i800, reported in February of this year, and fully expected to be the market's first ALP-based handset, has been cancelled. Edelman, ironically enough the PR company of both Palm Inc. and Orange, simply stated that:

"Since the original project was defined back in February there have been a number of advances in mobile technology. As a consequence the i800 has been withdrawn in order to take advantage of these to prepare a more competitive Linux mobile."

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ALP Guy(s)

Gekko @ 7/29/2008 8:15:24 PM # Q

why isn't that annoying, arrogant ALP guy(s) posting on PIC now???

RE: ALP Guy(s)
hkklife @ 7/29/2008 8:27:52 PM # Q
You mean David Schlesinger aka "Lefty"?

Lefty was actually doing a nice job here fielding questions and providing clear, concise responses to inquiries about the various specifics and vagaries of ALP. But then around, oh late April or May-ish he kinda/sorta disappeared without a trace.

In fact, just earlier this month (July 11th in fact) SV & I were discussing the suspicious absence of the i800 and any really solid ALP info. Remember, the i800 was supposed to arrive in May/June timeframe but that was really an Orange/Samsung decision and not an Access one.

I personally think the writing has been on teh wall for some time now for ALP.

In fact, to go waaaaay out on a limb and risk falling....I wouldn't be surprised if Access goes ahead and sells the Garnet source code outright (+ any interesting bits of ALP & its Garnet VM) to Palm for use in their "Garnet 2.0" project that will replace the canceled Nova. Better to just go ahead and snatch up that IP cheap for a few pennies top of the ~$44 MIL already paid for the perpetual license while you can, y'know!

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RE: ALP Guy(s)
mikecane @ 7/29/2008 8:30:10 PM # Q
Oh, that would be sooo rich, for Palm to buy it back for pennies against ACCESS's dollars!

But even *I* don't think Palm is *that* stupid. The OS has no future.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
AdamaDBrown @ 7/30/2008 12:11:35 AM # Q
In case anyone's wondering, it actually came out yesterday that the Samsung i800 has been cancelled, leaving no known ALP devices on the horizon. My feeling is that we can pretty safely declare the platform dead.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14211

RE: ALP Guy(s)
AdamaDBrown @ 7/30/2008 12:13:00 AM # Q
I am a freakin' moron. I need to check the article I'm commenting on, rather than just clicking the discussion threads from the main page. (Adama hangs his head in shame.)

RE: ALP Guy(s)
Rastick @ 7/30/2008 2:09:56 AM # Q
It would be good if Lefty could respond to the Orange announcement.
RE: ALP Guy(s)
EdH @ 7/30/2008 6:27:19 AM # Q
hkklife @ 7/29/2008 8:27:52 PM #
In fact, to go waaaaay out on a limb and risk falling....I wouldn't be surprised if Access goes ahead and sells the Garnet source code outright (+ any interesting bits of ALP & its Garnet VM) to Palm for use in their "Garnet 2.0" project that will replace the canceled Nova.

When was Nova cancelled?


RE: ALP Guy(s)
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 7:55:22 AM # Q
> ...July 11th in fact) SV & I were discussing the suspicious absence
> of the i800 and any really solid ALP info...
>
> ...I personally think the writing has been on the wall for some
> time now for ALP...

Yup yup yup - when that ALP PR guy didn't make a peep in response I think it waved a fairly large flag of confirmation.

So...is ACCESS telling Palm something?

== "...Since the original project was defined back in [whenever]
== there have been a number of advances in mobile technology..."

Remember what Nova is promising us:

== "...But we're working on absolutely breakthrough designs,
== breakthrough user experience, breakthrough UI and other
== functionality on next generation systems, so we're as I said
== we're not stopping at anything short of revolutionary and
== fantastic design on at least our next generation platform
== products..."

This was said well before Apple literally changed the mobile world.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
Gekko @ 7/30/2008 8:02:07 AM # Q

is this ALP demo just absolutely awful, pathetic, and archaic looking or is it just me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aBByl9ZY4g

think about that and then compare it to iphone.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 8:19:26 AM # Q
> ...In fact, to go waaaaay out on a limb and risk falling...
> I wouldn't be surprised if Access goes ahead and sells the Garnet
> source code outright (+ any interesting bits of ALP & its Garnet VM)
> to Palm for use in their "Garnet 2.0" project that will replace
> the canceled Nova..."

It's nto clear to me why Palm would need any more Garnet rights than they already have - they get to modify the code any way they want RIGHT NOW, they have the PalmOS name again, why buy MORE when what they have is theirs right now for "FREE"!

"FREE" because they've already received the ROI from their license for Garnet that more than covers the licensing cost (we know that Windows Mobile is more than $15 per device; if PalmOS was, say, $10/device then Palm has already moved WELL into the "saving big bucks per device" domain).

WAITAMINUTE - just read that Brighthand article and...
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 8:30:20 AM # Q
...what it says that PR-guy from Orange said is MUCH worse than the quote way up there in the PIC article:

== "...Orange's PR firm, speaking to The Inquirer, attributed the
== cancellation of the Samsung SGH-i800 to "a number of advances
== in mobile technology" which would allow for "a more competitive
== Linux mobile" at some point in the future, based on the LiMo
== Foundation's Linux platform..."

That is to say, it's not just Orange/Samsung saying "We're gonna wait til ALP incorporates those mobile technology advances", it's Orange/Samsung saying "We're dropping ALP and going with LiMo!

Big BIG difference for ACCESS!

RE: ALP Guy(s)
nastebu @ 7/30/2008 12:12:20 PM # Q
I'm not sure what this means for Palm and Nova. Palm can at least guarantee that Nova will appear on some hardware, right?

It does seem to underscore how difficult it is to compete in this field though. Access is far ahead of Palm on the development path, and they still are too far behind to compete. Grim.

Garmin's Nuvifone delayed until 2009-now they MUST buy Palm!
hkklife @ 7/30/2008 12:40:45 PM # Q
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/30/garmins-nuvifone-delayed-until-early-2009/

Perhaps...they're making room for Palm's PIM apps on it?
Hell, it might even be a done deal already and TVoR was alluding to the early discussions of a deal in the works last year!

Think about it:

-Palm is attempting to cobble together a home-brewed smartphone OS

-Garmin is attempting to cobble together a home-brewed smartphone OS

-Neither firm has any experience in developing an OS from scratch

-Palm's strength and emphasis has traditionally been with CDMA devices & carriers

-The Nuvifone is a globally-targeted, GSM handset

-Garmin's coming off of a record quarter and flush with cash

-Palm's had 4 consecutive quarterly losses and mostly bad news all around with the exception of the Centro

-Both firms are terrified of Apple

-Garmin is experiencing delays with carrier certifications for the Nuvifone, something that Palm at least has plenty of experience with (not this would help overnight but still)

-Palm is experiencing delays of an unknown significance with Nova, likely due to a lack of experienced codemonkeys & cash. Garmin could help considerably in this regard.

-There is not a BIT of information online about the Nuvifone's OS other than saying that it is "proprietary"

-There is not a BIT of information online about the NOVA OS or its status other than the general chatter about it being Linux-based, media-centric etc.

-"Nuvi" and "Nova" sound kinda similar to each other already

It would make perfect sense for Garmin to acquire Palm now while they can get 'em cheap, prune the lineup down to nearly nothing, and start merging the best bits (where possible) of Garnet, Nova & NuviOS. And, as I hinted at yesterday, maybe pick up the remnants of ALP from Access for pennies on the dollar just for good measure.

Would a combined Palm/Garmin effort be enough to stop the iPhone & RIM? No, but at least Garmin's got PLENTY of non-smartphone sectors where they reign (aviation, outdoors, marine, sonar, industrial applications etc) and the margins & competition are not nearly so brutal.

Of course, this little tidbit that just appeared is kinda worrying:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIRsclOPisQk&refer=home

"These two things will sit on the shelf next to each other,'' Valera said. ``The $199 price point is a very difficult thing for other smart phone makers including Garmin to deal with.'' Garmin spokesman Ted Gartner declined to comment on pricing."


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RE: ALP Guy(s)
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 1:03:35 PM # Q
Right now, with ZERO premium over the current price, Palm would cost about $1.5 million (correct me if I'm wrong - I easily could be since I didn't fact-check! Based off 140,000,000 shares and $400+ million in debt).

But Colligan JUST said in that interview that Elevation Partners wants a huge return on their investment, and investment that all by itself is at a 30+% premium over the current stock price.

Garmin would have to be nuts to pay, say, 50% above EP's price point...or $3+ billion.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 1:04:25 PM # Q
[wish I could edit posts!}

Make that "1.5 million" into "1.5 billion" please...

RE: ALP Guy(s)
AdamaDBrown @ 7/30/2008 1:31:13 PM # Q
SV, you're mostly not wrong: the published commentary by the Orange PR rep clearly indicates that they're going to be using LiMo for any future Linux offerings they want to make. In short, they've dropped ALP.

That said, Samsung has made no comment on the subject, so we don't know what their plans are. However, Samsung's never really showed any independent interest in ALP beyond producing hardware for their partner Orange, so I wouldn't look for an unlocked release or the like.

nastebu, that assumes that Palm can produce something that's worth putting on hardware, which is the open question. And will remain open, until Palm can demonstrate an actual OS.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 1:57:19 PM # Q
Ah, okay, I assumed that PR-guy was speaking for BOTH Orange and Samsung.

RE: ALP Guy(s)
Gekko @ 7/30/2008 3:56:45 PM # Q

"Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth Quote (Act V, Scene V).

RE: ALP Guy(s)
mikecane @ 7/30/2008 9:04:11 PM # Q
Gekko, you don't come back here unless you're dragging another Paul Lynde YouTube URL with you!

RE: ALP Guy(s)
DarthRepublican @ 7/31/2008 8:18:51 PM # Q

is this ALP demo just absolutely awful, pathetic, and archaic looking or is it just me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aBByl9ZY4g

think about that and then compare it to iphone.

A little from "Column A" and a little from "Column B" I think. I hadn't seen that video in a long time and it struck me how similar the ALP interface was to that of the iPhone. Of course the iPhone is actually out and we never saw ALP become anything more than a mock up running on test hardware. It is pretty sad end but let's face it, even if it had succeeded we probably wouldn't have seen any ALP devices outside of the Far East.

Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: ALP Guy(s)
LiveFaith @ 8/1/2008 9:13:19 AM # Q
Compare anything to the iPhone.

Pat Horne
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You just know I have to laugh

mikecane @ 7/29/2008 8:28:26 PM # Q
Ha! Ha! Ha!

Where's that little psychopath to bray about how many ALP phones would hit the beach this year?

As I said: Ain't Gonna Be NONE!!

Reply to this comment

Kick 'em while they're down, I say!

mikecane @ 7/29/2008 9:00:28 PM # Q
Semi-OT: RE: Kick 'em while they're down, I say!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/30/2008 8:34:09 AM # Q
Links internal to your web page referenced in the first post are broken for folks who aren't you.

RE: Kick 'em while they're down, I say!
mikecane @ 7/30/2008 10:43:10 AM # Q
Ouch. Last post of the night. Eejit errors happen. Fixed.

Reply to this comment

That might have been cancelled but LiMo phones are doing fine

SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2008 10:05:36 AM # Q
22 now "out there", the Motorola EM30 the latest:

- http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/080805/aqtu532.html?.v=15

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ALP now for MIDs, not phones!

mikecane @ 8/5/2008 9:08:42 PM # Q
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/08/access-goes-mid/

Well, gee, maybe this will work out as successfully as their phone strategy.

Yuk yuk yuk.

Right. First it needs a BRAND NEW UI, because what it has STINKS.

I'm sure they'll call Lefty back to get right on it. Haw haw.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2008 9:15:25 PM # Q
Oh.

That's interesting.

Wow.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2008 9:17:28 PM # Q
If ya follow the "access press release" link you'll see that they're trying to make the Orange rejection into a positive...

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
mikecane @ 8/6/2008 9:02:11 AM # Q
Just ONE comment about this (since it's from one person, I count it as one)?

I was sure there'd be more of a stir over this.

I guess that just shows how little anyone gives a damn about ALP. As I've always said!

As I posted in a Comment over at Chippy, you can already get a preview of the Ugly of putting PalmOS apps on a MID: the Garnet VM for those Finnish Slabs of FAIL.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
hkklife @ 8/6/2008 10:15:11 AM # Q
SV/MC/et al:

Does anyone know offhand if there is any kind of quick & dirty primer available as to what kind of hardware exactly constitutes a MID? Must it run Linux? Be larger than a PDA but smaller than a tablet? How do MIDs fit in alongside UMPCs? What if someone ships a MID with an open slot for an EVDO or HSPA modem card? Is a device no longer a MID if it has a built-in cellular radio?

Has Intel (etc) published specs and/or specific requirements akin to M$ saying netbooks running XP have to have 10" or smaller LCDs, 1GB or less of RAM and 80GB or less of HD space? Y'know, Access fall from smrtphone grace might be a good thing in disguise for them and let them return to their roots (well, the ex-PalmSource staffers' roote). There's a LOT less brutal competition in the MID sector than there is in the smartphone sector AND you're not expected to jump every time a carrier wants something tweaked, modified, customized or crippled.

I personally would like to see more competition in the "no contract required $200-$400 gadget" sector that was formerly occupie by high-end PDAs but has recently become cluttered with low-end netbooks. Something akin to the Finnish Slabs of Fail with, say, an 800x480 LCD, lot of internal storage (flash or HD), the option of wi-max, and running a highly-optimized ALP (let me again stress OPTIMIZED) with the classic Palm OS PIM apps. That'd be basically what the Palm faithful have been awaiting since, oh, 2003 or so.

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RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
AdamaDBrown @ 8/6/2008 1:20:46 PM # Q
hkk, the only definition of a MID as a class by Intel is that it has to run an Atom processor. That, though, hasn't stopped the MID designation from being applied to a lot of other devices and types, like the Nokia tablets, other ARM-based devices, and various non-Atom UMPCs.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
mikecane @ 8/6/2008 5:37:47 PM # Q
The iPod Touch is a MID. Don't give me that damned Atom snobbery, Adama! (Must I *really* do a damn smiley here?)

BTW, as there are two different kind of Atom chips, you'll go mad when someone says something is "Atom-powered." The Atom in a MID is *not* the same Atom as in, for example, the Asus 901!

You can see a near-shipping "classic" MID (ie, not iPod Touch) here:
http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=1130

That's the most interesting of the lot (to me, at least!), hardware-wise.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
AdamaDBrown @ 8/7/2008 1:05:39 PM # Q
I think Intel's being a bit silly trying to drive MIDs on Atom hardware. You don't need all that horsepower just for browsing, an ARM processor can do that fine as long as you have a decently built browser. Save the Atoms for mini-tablets and the like.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
Gekko @ 8/7/2008 1:08:03 PM # Q

more horsepower never hurt anybody. i say this as a long-suffering INTC shareholder.

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
hkklife @ 8/7/2008 2:12:50 PM # Q
I think ~400-600mhz ARM or equivalent (or slower w/ accelerated graphics hardware) ARM is the best compromise in terms of speed/media capabilities/power savings/cost, assuming, say, an 800x480 LCD. I've never usd a Nokia n810 but the N800 I played with still felt a tad sluggish when rendering certain pages or switching modes.

The Atom in my EEE is nice but nothing that redefines the category IF you're not shooting for ultra-extended battery life. Sometimes it "feels" quite speedy indeed yet other times it feels more sluggish than, say, a 900mhz Celeron-M, even whe nin "super performance" mode.



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: ALP now for MIDs, not phones!
Gekko @ 8/7/2008 2:20:22 PM # Q

or you could go dragonball ez if you really wanted to up the ante.

Reply to this comment

two reminders for mike cane

Gekko @ 8/7/2008 5:20:45 PM # Q

please print this and post on a wall in your hovel -

1. "The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a shit whether you live or die. There, you feel better now?" - Dennis Miller

2. Despite shrill predictions of The Apocalypse, life will go on in 2008 - and there will be a 2009.



RE: two reminders for mike cane
mikecane @ 8/8/2008 9:00:42 AM # Q
I answered your Comment on my blog.

What I missed: yeah, Dennis Miller. REPUBLICAN Dennis Miller. Of course he doesn't want us to think there's a conspiracy, now that he's part of The Club.

RE: two reminders for mike cane
Gekko @ 8/8/2008 9:54:17 AM # Q

Believe in America!!!

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