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Comments on: Foleo Delayed Until Late September/Early October?

Rumor: Barron's Tech Trader Daily blog is reporting today that Deutsche Bank Palm analyst Jonathan Goldberg has a issued a brief note saying the Foleo's release date has been pushed back due to software issues.

"The product was supposed to hit Palm stores this week, but was delayed when software bugs were detected. These apparently included an inability to synchronize the Foleo with most models of the Treo, in particular the nominally high-volume Treo 680. Our contacts indicate Palm now expects the device will ship in late September/early October."
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LMAO

PacManFoo @ 8/22/2007 5:57:51 PM # Q
These apparently included an inability to synchronize the Foleo with most models of the Treo

CLASSIC PALM!

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: LMAO
SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 6:10:16 PM # Q
The actual Barron's article is MUCH more funny...or sad.


RE: LMAO
Gekko @ 8/22/2007 6:58:49 PM # Q
RE: LMAO
jca666us @ 8/22/2007 9:32:01 PM # Q
This is like a dilbert comic strip.

RE: LMAO
nybble @ 8/23/2007 10:35:59 AM # Q
I just got the word from Ben Combee that the Barron's piece was a bit of a simplification from reality. It's not that it can't sync, it's that over time under load it starts seeing some intermittent failures. That's all a paraphrase, check out what he said on the comments on my post, where he gives some more clarification:

http://comments.deasil.com/2007/08/23/poor-palm/

<http://comments.deasil.com/> that is my tech blog. There are many like it, but that one is mine.

RE: LMAO
freakout @ 8/23/2007 11:08:10 AM # Q
It's a good comment. Here's a quote:

We’re not stupid; we’ve been working on lots of complicated sync issues on lots of phones for the last year, including testing with a wide range of Treo devices. The issues haven’t been “it doesn’t sync”, but more like “after syncing large numbers of emails over a four day time period, the operation fails 25% of the time and cannot restart without resetting the device.”

Fair enough.

RE: LMAO
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 11:50:51 AM # Q
He said more later.

=======

Luv them memory leaks, eh?

Quality programming lives!

Uh...somewhere...

RE: LMAO
jca666us @ 8/23/2007 2:22:22 PM # Q
Only here does intermittent failure not mean unable to sync.

At least Palm is trying to QC this contraption before unleashing it on hordes of unsuspecting users.

Look at the bright side - it could be worse - Foleos could burst into flames like some xbox 360's have been doing.

RE: LMAO
SeldomVisitor @ 10/3/2007 3:43:21 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?

SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 6:04:24 PM # Q
When your own instance of Linux is sufficiently broken that you outsource anew, does it REALLY make sense to ship that broken version of Linux?

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
freakout @ 8/22/2007 7:49:43 PM # Q
Once again, SV spreads FUD. The antidote from someone who's actually worked with the Foleo (David Beers):

As for the whole Wind River thing, this is about kernel and low-level kernel services, tools and developer support. Wind River's "Platform for Consumer Devices" is not an operating system, it's a platform on which a company like Palm can build an operating system with nicely-integrated tools for both system and application developers. I've been saying all along that Palm, like Motorola, ACCESS, and others before them would partner with a commercial Linux vendor to deliver the low-level parts of the system, rather than doing these in-house. Part of the advantage of Linux that there *is* this kind of layered ecosystem now.

The Wind River Workbench is the piece that will most interest application developers, because it's a state-of-the-art Eclipse-based IDE for embedded Linux development--the kind of thing that would be a huge waste of time for Palm to reinvent. The distro and toolchain have been under development at Wind River concurrently with the development of Foleo, so even the 1.0 version wasn't available at the time Palm started this project. I expect that Palm has known for some time that whatever Linux distro they built on at the start would be updated to the latest and greatest commercial Linux distro from a partner like Wind River or MontaVista near release time. If you want to say for dramatic effect that they are "dumping" the old distro they started with you could do that, but I'd be willing to bet that that distro, too, was something they licensed from a vendor back then, not something that Palm developed themselves and are now "dumping" (along with the internal team) in disappointment and disgust.

They're not "oustsourcing anew"; there have been rumours of Palm and Wind River collaborating for well over a year now.

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 8:10:19 PM # Q
They are outsourcing anew. They are dumping their own in-house version of Linux for the Fooleo (and more?) and (correctly, IMHO) buying a more robust version from someone who knows what they are doing.

You and that other guy may not like that but it IS what they are doing.

The silly obfuscation about the programmer's workbench is simply silly.

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
freakout @ 8/22/2007 9:03:51 PM # Q
Sigh. Okay, SV. Who needs reality when you can just make it up? Reality's over-rated anyways*.


*especially reality television

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
jca666us @ 8/22/2007 9:39:11 PM # Q
Freak,

Definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
cervezas @ 8/23/2007 12:12:08 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
They are outsourcing anew. They are dumping their own in-house version of Linux for the Fooleo (and more?) and (correctly, IMHO) buying a more robust version from someone who knows what they are doing.

Not true. But then you probably knew that, didn't you? ;)

So, once more: The Foleo OS was developed against a 2.4 Linux kernel that Intel provided with the processor. We have this from Ben Combee. All of the mods that Palm made against that kernel are being ported to the new 2.6 Wind River kernel, which was selected (if you know WR's business) because it plays nice with Wind River's developer tools (especially the debugger) and because it gets patches from the Linux community certified and applied by WR on a regular release schedule. In addition, Palm's custom DirectFB windowing toolkit and application framework--created to avoid all the bloat of X Windows and GTK and the sluggishness that you usually expect from a PC--is not going anywhere. It, too, is just being ported to the new kernel.

There's no evidence shown to date that any of Palm's work at all is being "dumped" or that anything beyond mundane porting, kernel maintenance, support and tool-development is being outsourced. Were it otherwise I expect we'd be hearing about a delay of a couple of years, instead of a couple of weeks.

There also isn't any evidence that Palm is waiting for that port to be completed before they release the product. They certainly didn't wait for it to be complete before they started seeding developers and doing public betas--everything we've seen in still on the 2.4 kernel. Knowing what we know, it stands to reason that Palm is probably having trouble with the Treo software more than the Foleo's: for example, the Bluetooth stack on some of the Treos hasn't exactly worked reliably or uniformly, right?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Slip til WIndRiver is installed; makes sense, huh?
twrock @ 8/23/2007 1:17:16 AM # Q
You know, for someone who supposedly has such a vast amount of developer experience, SV keeps on making a lot of erroneous assumptions about what is going on with Palm's OS development. Makes a guy wonder.....

(Ok, I admit it, I'm not "wondering" at all. I'm already quite sure what's going on with SV.)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

Reply to this comment

Just like Nokia

mikecane @ 8/22/2007 6:09:54 PM # Q
The same thing happened with the LINUX-BASED Nokia 770 (Anti-)Internet Tablet.

And when it finally came out late -- it was STILL CRAP!

Let's see what happens here...

Reply to this comment

Euhm...

Gazpacho @ 8/22/2007 6:38:43 PM # Q
Syncing with Treo's. Just a minor feature for this laptop, right? ;)

http://foleocentral.blogspot.com

FoleoCentral is the news, opinions & review blog about the Palm Foleo Mobile Companion
RE: Euhm...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 6:46:53 PM # Q
Is right now!

RE: Euhm...
4s @ 8/23/2007 12:12:52 PM # Q
We at Palm Aircraft are excited about our new Flying Foleo aircraft. However, we are sad to report that we are delaying its release as it currently is not able to actually fly.

<><
RE: Euhm...
abosco @ 8/23/2007 5:06:29 PM # Q
We at Palm Motors are excited about our new AWD V8 Foleo. However, we are sad to report that we are delaying its release as it currently is not able to actually steer.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
RE: Euhm...
PacManFoo @ 8/23/2007 5:41:36 PM # Q
It's not suppose to steer. It's just too cumbersome to have a steering wheel. That's the amazing thing about it, it accelerates and brakes only but has an instant on ignition. When I'm out on the highway I don't need to steer so why have that steering wheel in my way. Sure at some point I might want to change lanes and then I'll need the steering wheel, oops! but I left that at home. CRASH!!!!

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: Euhm...
abosco @ 8/23/2007 5:57:56 PM # Q
What brakes?

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a
Reply to this comment

There's ANOTHER Barron's article/blog entry today

SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 6:39:38 PM # Q
RE: There's ANOTHER Barron's article/blog entry today
hkklife @ 8/22/2007 7:36:22 PM # Q
Ho! Thanks for the link, SV! I hadn't read anything on Barro's in regards to Palm or Fooleo-bashing prior to today, in fact. And the part about "...people streaming to the exits...7th inning of a blowout...." WAS JUST CLASSIC! But I am stunned that in all of our chatter here over the summer months about the Foleo that this article & grim first-hand account was not mentioned here. Perhaps the tech-savvy types don't read Barron's?

Does anyone think Palm are taking the early criticisms to heart and desperately trying to add more built-in functionality? Or are they just bug-patching and troubleshooting?

Didn't someone on TC (maybe it was even TVoR) post a rumor a while back that the 680 was NOT on the list of initially approved Treo to sync with the Fooleo? I seem to recall reading that so far just the 700w/wx/p, 755p and 750 were on the approved device list. That's an AWFULLY short list of compatible smartphones. And if the 680 is indeed a no-go that just adds fuel to my gnawing that the best "value" proposition amongst the Treos, the 680, is soon to be discontinued in favor of a GSM version of the Centro.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: There's ANOTHER Barron's article/blog entry today
freakout @ 8/22/2007 7:51:55 PM # Q
^^ They'd better bloody not. The Centro addresses the need for a smaller Palm OS smartphone, but it's no substitute for the 680!
RE: There's ANOTHER Barron's article/blog entry today
SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2007 8:40:47 PM # Q
> ...But I am stunned that in all of our chatter here over the
> summer months about the Foleo that this article & grim first-hand
> account was not mentioned here...

I remember reading that but don't remember how/from where what I read was linked. It doesn't seem to be of much relevance here, though, so doesn't appear to be something =I= would have mentioned - the stupid Hawkins' comment about wanting a faster processor made WHILE giving the first very-public D demo is something I would have commented about here, have to admit, but I don't remember doing so (but believe I must have at least once!).

> ...Perhaps the tech-savvy types don't read Barron's?...

I read everything that crosses my screen and a lot of stuff crosses that screen but do not regularly visit Barron's - if a link to a Barron's article shows up somewhere ELSE, however, I'll follow it down and read there, too.


Reply to this comment

Software Bugs in a Palm Device???

Gekko @ 8/22/2007 7:01:13 PM # Q

I don't believe it!!!

RE: Software Bugs in a Palm Device???
jca666us @ 8/22/2007 9:47:52 PM # Q
Who cares about bugs?!?!?!?

Who cares about stability?!?!?!?

Who cares about missing functionality?!?!?!?

Who cares about bad hardware/software QC?!?!?!?

Who cares about customer service?!?!?!?

NONE OF THAT MATTERS!!!!!!!

THE TRUE THINGS THAT MATTER:

1. PALM IS DESIGNED FOR ONE HANDED OPERATION!

2. PALM HAS CUT AND PASTE!

PALM RULEZ!!!!! DR00L!!!!! :P

Seriously, Palm is in major trouble.

Reply to this comment

toast

midtoad @ 8/23/2007 1:46:13 AM # Q
Well, that's it. I'm a fool for Foleo no longer. I just ordered an Asus EEE PC instead. It runs Xandros Linux and that version is *not broken*.

Stewart Midwinter
PDA user since 1992 (Sharp PC-3100)
Palm TX
RE: toast
twrock @ 8/23/2007 3:11:43 AM # Q
Cool. I'm very interested in hearing real user comments and evaluation. After you've had a chance to use it, please come back and report what you think. I'm really interested in the keyboard size (i.e. if I can possibly use a keyboard that size).


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: toast
numlock @ 8/23/2007 12:24:39 PM # Q
Where can you order a EEE online??? Iquiring minds want to know.
RE: toast
PacManFoo @ 8/23/2007 1:46:11 PM # Q
On a little trip to google I found this http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=eee

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: toast
cervezas @ 8/23/2007 3:07:33 PM # Q
Heh, you can probably send them your money, but the product release for the Eee isn't supposed to be until "end of September."

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: toast
PacManFoo @ 8/23/2007 5:44:22 PM # Q
The question was where can it be ordered. Not when does it come out. Didn't you pre-order a Fooleo for Dear Miss Beers? If you did then I guess you already gave Palm your money.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: toast
cervezas @ 8/24/2007 1:56:32 AM # Q
Didn't you pre-order a Fooleo for Dear Miss Beers?

Palm seeded a lot of developers with Foleos already (myself included) and Mrs. Beers has indeed been using it quite a bit, so it certainly *feels* like I ordered it for her, yes. :-/

I'm not supposed to reveal anything about it that hasn't already been made public, of course, but I can say this: the Foleo has *great* industrial design and the OS is quite elegant and unique. It really drives home that the best system design is inseparable from good hardware design. Palm has a lot to be proud of, developing the first really new "PC" hardware and operating system we've seen in many years.

I've seen the spreads on the Eee and even from a distance it looks like your dog's dinner by comparison to the Foleo. Hopefully it's not as toy-like and cheap as it appears, but the ergonomics and aesthetic appeal both look quite weak. I can't see there being a big overlap in the target audience. Foleo is a serious tool and a class act.



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: toast
twrock @ 8/24/2007 2:14:54 AM # Q
I'm not supposed to reveal anything about it that hasn't already been made public....

Fair 'nuff. But you know we all expect a serious write-up just as soon as it's allowed. So you'd better start now; we aren't a very patient group. ;-)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: toast
SeldomVisitor @ 8/24/2007 7:16:20 AM # Q
> ...I've seen the spreads on the Eee and even from a distance
> it looks like your dog's dinner by comparison to the Foleo.
> Hopefully it's not as toy-like and cheap as it appears, but
> the ergonomics and aesthetic appeal both look quite weak...

Others have commented as you:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1335084&postcount=67

[note - I don't believe this particular poster makes or is trying to make any money off of either the Foleo or EEE]

RE: toast
mikecane @ 8/24/2007 11:40:48 AM # Q
Hey, Beers, my transient aneurysm is acting up and is compelling me to think about the Flopeo as a grab-n-go blogging machine.

Some questions:

1) You on WordPress? How about just going there if you're not and creating a test blog. Does the Flopeo -- OK, I'll stop the smartass stuff -- does the Foleo play well with all features of the WordPress web interface? Posting, changing settings, et al.

2) I'd need to do some basic photo editing. Nothing Photoshoppy. Basically being able to resize things down to 320x240 (or even to 450 x whatever), crop, and cut the palette down so the photo when posted in the blog doesn't choke devices with limited CPU and RAM (hey, like the Foleo!). I guess the current bundled Photo app has none of that capability?

My aneurysm is also making me wonder why Palm is so intent on Treo email syncing. Look at the iPhone: YahooMail is built in. Not only would I be able to have mobile access to YahooMail without struggling with its web interface on a wee screen, but I'd be doing it *without* paying the $$$ a POP account would cost. Why can't Palm strike a similar deal and include YahooMail and even GMail in the Foleo? That'd be a big selling point!

So now that your missus has had hands-on with it, is she still in mad love with it? Does it live up to her pre-fondle illusions?

RE: toast
PacManFoo @ 8/24/2007 4:37:50 PM # Q
I've seen the spreads on the Eee and even from a distance it looks like your dog's dinner by comparison to the Foleo.

I agree. I was just answering this guys question.

No how does the Foleo compare against my 12" G4 iBook? Thinner I imagine but I don't see it being that big of a difference as far as carrying around.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

Hey, Beers, wake up!
mikecane @ 8/27/2007 11:29:37 AM # Q
I asked some Qs back there.

RE: toast
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 11:56:23 AM # Q
Yeah, I heard you, Mike. :-)

I'll look into it. (I don't use WordPress and I probably need to flash with a recent build to get the Photo app.) My guess from using other AJAX apps is that Opera would handle WordPress just fine and that TealPaint is your friend when it comes to editing images: http://www.tealpoint.com/foleo.htm

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: toast
mikecane @ 8/27/2007 2:18:41 PM # Q
Whoa. I never heard about TealPaint for Foleo.

What about the missus?!!?

RE: toast
cervezas @ 8/27/2007 3:44:31 PM # Q
What about the missus?!!?

Oh she loves the Foleo. She's a writer and she uses it for only one thing: writing. She could use a laptop just as well, but she likes the fact that the Foleo is so easy to carry around in one hand and it's always instantly ready for her to start writing. Also that it doesn't have any fan or spindle noise and runs cool in her lap. If I didn't manage to steal it back from her the it would be permanently in Docs to Go Word.

She's not exactly the customer Palm had in mind, but she says she wants one of her own as soon as they come available.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: toast
mikecane @ 8/27/2007 4:20:38 PM # Q
Hmmmm...

More Qs later, perhaps. Thanks.

RE: toast
mikecane @ 8/27/2007 4:21:26 PM # Q
Oh, yeah. I forgot this I came across here:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8838/#135417

RE: toast
mikecane @ 8/27/2007 5:29:05 PM # Q
Oh wow. I d/led TealPaint to try on my LifeDrive.

Major suck!

There is no way to resize a photo! There is Canvas Resize, which helpfully informed me that if I did *that* (the ONLY resize there was!), it would CUT OFF PART OF THE IMAGE!

OK, I'm not even going to go into the delay delay delay it took to IMPORT a 3MB JPEG and then SAVE it. I expect at least THAT not to be the case on the Foleo which, unlike POS, can use *real world* file formats.

To quote Uncov: FAIL!

Reply to this comment

Disappointed

tryingtoquit @ 8/23/2007 12:03:26 PM # Q
Wozniak, Jobs and Gates together couldn't save this thing.

lifeline
Poopie @ 8/23/2007 1:31:51 PM # Q

Wozniak, Jobs and Gates together couldn't save this thing.

Sure they could. But I suspect they don't want to.

Woz wants ??? ...to tell stories and ride his segway? Hey, all props to the Woz for his past accomplishments, but what has Woz done for you lately?

Jobs doesn't want the iPhone to sync with a Foleo. Heck, it barely syncs with Outlook. What does Foleo bring to Apple? Apple's killer app is iPhone/iTunes/OSX. Why would Jobs break up that holy trinity?

Gates has all these Asian makers making UMPCs that nobody wants. He's trying to give away Zunes. He's hemmoraging money on Xbox-360s, gaming, and the dreaded THREE RED LIGHTS or red ring of death. Vista adoption is actually going in reverse. The backlash against Vista is something we haven't seen since Windows ME. Windows Media Center and cablecard installs are so complex and unreliable that nobody wants to sell them -- except to specialty home theater installers.

The Foleo form factor is nice, but I no longer have a Treo, so it's a web browser that doesn't fully support all of the sites I visit. Ironically, I can't view the above link for the keystone cops video on the Foleo.

Poopie's recipe for Palm re: the Foleo:

- make it a standalone device first, and a mobile companion second
- provide a mail client that support POP and IMAP as well as phone sync
- provide a calendar and addressbook app - what is a palm without a calendar and addressbook?
- Provide a direct sync for Foleo to Palm desktop
- Provide a direct sync to Google calendar and other standards-compliant calendars directly from the Foleo
- tabbed web browser or support for multiple browser windows
- terminal-server-client ported to foleo to allow citrix, vnc, rdp access
- rj45 port
- multiprotocol IM client (pidgin, please)
- ability to print to an IPP printer
- some sort of journal/blog app that ties in with calendar, photos, and an online blog like wordpress / blogger /etc.
- secure password manager app
- todo list
- a few games included by default - Bike Or Die, Bejewelled, and a sudoku or card game would be my choices.

USR Palm Pilot 1000 --> Palm Pilot Professional --> TRG SuperPilot --> Palm IIIc --> Palm V --> Palm M505 --> Palm M515 --> Tungsten T|2 --> Treo 600 --> LifeDrive --> iPhone

RE: Disappointed
freakout @ 8/23/2007 5:09:17 PM # Q
He's hemmoraging money on Xbox-360s, gaming, and the dreaded THREE RED LIGHTS or red ring of death

Just wait until Halo 3. ;)

RE: Disappointed
Valhala @ 8/24/2007 2:54:55 AM # Q
On the Xbox 360, I'm on my 3rd box. However each time I took it back to the the store I got a new one no questions asked. Granted it has some heat related issues but that is not what caused the problems in mine. Ultimely the 360 has a fantastic repoitoire of games, especially for the adult gamer, and I will be buying a 2nd one, the the elite which has a few upgrades on it. Halo 3 is going to be a blockbuster so whatever MS has lost in concole fixes, and note the fixed boxes are resold as refurbs at EB Games for about $250 US.
On Vista, I'm not sure what all the carping is about, I like it. It might be the high hardware requirments, granted it's no OSX but it is a substantial improvement over XP.
iPhone another outstanding device, I ditched my MP3 player, camera,cellphone, gps and laptop. I feel a lot more freedom without fiddling witha bunch of devices very liberating, and that to me is the big issue with the fooleo, haveing been a Palm fanboy for 10 years and early adepter the fooleo leaves me with a big yawn.



Reply to this comment

Palm stock fun and games?

rcartwright @ 8/23/2007 2:25:32 PM # Q
Securities law is not my area, but I wonder if someone is trying to sandbag Palm stock. First, this is the "silly season" for news stories, so people are desperate to run anything they can. Right now Palm is pretty cash flush and that will not be the case if the Elevation deal goes through. Second, the "shocking news" that the ship date of the Folio will be September has been out there for a while. Now its news? Third, we have the Endgadget hit pieces. Not to say it did not have some good points but IMHO the hipsters at Endgadget are too young to understand the Folio. Fourtysomethings "get" the Folio.

My gut tells me that someone is trying to craft some negative buzz on Palm (over and above self inflicted wounds) Right now I can't see who benefits other than short sellers and anyone who wanted all of Palm at a bargain price.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
jca666us @ 8/23/2007 3:09:18 PM # Q
I'd agree, except...CAN the stock go any lower??????????????

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 4:34:27 PM # Q
You noted the obvious but completely overlooked it in your attempt to divert fault to the "invisible but dangerous and ever-present evil shorts".

That is, no one could come up with better ways to knock down PALM's stock price than PALM itself has over the last year or two.

Those who take intermediate-term to long-term positions, short in this case, couldn't have done a better job even if they had tried. Or, if you like, those wanting to buy low but not having a position currently.

Who could have imagined the 700p disaster, re-disaster, and re-re-disaster - and it's STILL ongoing AFTER the 700p is WELL beyond EOL!

Who could have come up with THE "image of PALM", Hawkins Hisself, saying he would rather have done it differently DURING THE FIRST PUBLIC SHOW of the Foleo?

Who could have IMAGINED that PALM would throw up their hands in disgust and DUMP their own Linux instantiation for the Foleo after YEARS of "development" only a month (or two now...) before the Foleo is to be released?

I mean, NO stock-manipulator in their right mind could come up with this stuff and stay in business! They'd be laughed out of town!

No...sorry...the blame for THIS stock price decline is clearly obvious.

[Hey! Speaking of price manipulation...remember that outrageous series of articles in February et al about The Buyout that spiked the price up to the $20 range!? All due to a single hedge fund getting INTO PALM? Well, guess what hedge fund completely sold out already? Whatta game!]

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
freakout @ 8/23/2007 5:13:42 PM # Q
Who could have IMAGINED that PALM would throw up their hands in disgust and DUMP their own Linux instantiation for the Foleo after YEARS of "development" only a month (or two now...) before the Foleo is to be released?

Do you somehow think that if you keep repeating this crap, it will make it true? Give up already.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8656/#136503


RE: Palm stock fun and games?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 5:30:32 PM # Q
Excuse me? I am repeating verified right-out-of-PALM crap while you are repeating crap from some inexperienced net denizen.

Whose crap is better crap?

I'm sticking to my crap - it smells better.

================

PALM, after YEARS of "development" (and, of course, I'm placing that in quotes because it SURE looks to THIS =very-experienced= developer that PALM needs serious overhaul in their "developer" ranks (*))...after YEARS of "development" they actually are DROPPING their own instantiation of Linux and buying a presumably-more-robust version from a company that knows how to develop Linux (**) a month (ok, maybe two) before their flagship new device gets released!

A stock-manipulator could NOT have come up with a story like that!

==================

(*) WAITAMINUTE! They =are= overhauling their developer ranks! Out completely with Windows, out almost completely with Linux, out perhaps already but not yet mentioned with PalmOS! Maybe they canned the head of "development", too, by now - certainly looks to THIS =very-experienced= developer that PALM's "development" problems can DIRECTLY be laid at the lap of management, not their "developers", because their problems are SO diverse and across ALL platforms - can't blame a single "developer team" for THAT (***)!

(**) BTW, since folks tend to get blinded by hatred fairly easy and Really Don't Get It, it should be noted that I think it is a GOOD THING that PALM has decided to outsource EVERYTHING - as noted in the paragraph above PALM's "development" environment is about as sick as it can get yet still release SOMETHING; much MUCH more cost-effective and plain-old tech-effective to get it out of house in such a situation.

(***) Of course, off-shored "developers" often have less than 5 years of real-world experience (often MUCH less) even though they may have excellent degrees from excellent schools. They do things like write at the workstation rather than think about what they are going to write "elsewhere" and often produce amazingly incoherent stream-of-consciousness broken code that does WAY more than it should in each uncommented function. But they're really cheap, right?

FUD F&G
freakout @ 8/23/2007 7:09:48 PM # Q
Excuse me? I am repeating verified right-out-of-PALM crap while you are repeating crap from some inexperienced net denizen.

The "inexperienced denizen" is someone who actually has a Foleo to play with. And can you please show me the quote where Palm said that they were "dumping" all their Linux work?

Palm have developed their own custom Linux windowing toolkit, application framework and applications. All of these are being ported from the old Intel Linux 2.4 kernel on which Foleo was developed (remember, Foleo has been gestating for around three years) to Wind River's 2.6 kernel. This will make ensure full compatibility with the Wind River suite of development tools and make life easier for developers, as well making sure the Foleo will receive a steady schedule of Wind River-certified kernel patches.

What is so hard to understand here? Did you expect Palm to stick with an outdated kernel forever? Did you expect them to create their own suite of software development tools, when part of the whole point of moving to Linux is to take advantage of the fact that said tools are already readily available?

Palm have been in talks with Wind River for quite some time. This is obviously a planned transition from an older kernel to a new one. Obvious to everyone except you, it seems...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 ---> Treo 650 ---> Crimson Treo 680

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
twrock @ 8/24/2007 12:30:38 AM # Q
I'm sticking to my crap - it smells better.

And only to you because you are the one who left the pile laying there. How about you just clean it up so the rest of us don't have to smell it?


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Palm stock fun and games?
craigdts @ 8/24/2007 9:24:06 AM # Q
"sandbag Palm stock"

While it may be easier to see a conspiracy theory, reality is that Palm is a poorly run company and thus a bad investment. Don't fall in love with a company becuase you like its product.

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/4/2007 5:47:40 PM # Q
Q.E.D.

RE: Palm stock fun and games?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/17/2007 7:32:53 PM # Q
> ...(*) WAITAMINUTE! They =are= overhauling their developer ranks! Out completely
> with Windows, out almost completely with Linux, out perhaps already but not yet
> mentioned with PalmOS! Maybe they canned the head of "development", too, by now -
> certainly looks to THIS =very-experienced= developer that PALM's "development"
> problems can DIRECTLY be laid at the lap of management, not their "developers",
> because their problems are SO diverse and across ALL platforms - can't blame a single
> "developer team" for THAT (***)!...

Michael Farese, SVP of Engineering, is out of PALM effective September 14th.

Reply to this comment

Palm's sad new marketing

mikecane @ 8/23/2007 3:02:52 PM # Q
Have you seen it yet? The new tagline is, "It's A Palm Thing."

http://palmthing.com/

Animation like a poor Monty Python interstitial.

What will the Wizards of Ad come up with next?

"It's not a flop. It's a Flopeo thing!"

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2007 4:46:52 PM # Q
RE: Palm's sad new marketing
mikecane @ 8/24/2007 10:39:44 AM # Q
Very good. They're plastering this nonsense all over NYC.

My missing your post is an indication of how little I pay attention to this site now.

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
freakout @ 8/24/2007 7:38:31 PM # Q
^^ Hands up who cares?

(crickets chirp. frogs croak. tumbleweed rolls by.)

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
mikecane @ 8/25/2007 11:53:01 AM # Q
I think Ryan has given TVoR a spot on PIC under the name freakout.

Is this guy *that* effing clueless as to how obnoxious he is over and over again here?

No matter *how* *many* people tell him he's a jerk, he stands his ground. He just continues to be a jerk. Never a useful or intelligent word out of him. *Never.*

Ryan has found a *person* who is as crappy as PalmOS 5.

Way to go, Ryan. Keep driving the visitors to this site away.

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
mikecane @ 8/25/2007 11:54:23 AM # Q
One more thing, Ryan. Let's say the Foleo sells in gobs to a Corporate audience. Do you *really* think those pinstripers will come *here* for Foleo info seeing as how freakout is an Official Voice here?

Forget it, pal.

Someone else will start a Foleo-only site and bye-bye PIC.

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
freakout @ 8/25/2007 12:58:16 PM # Q
Mmmmm mmmmm, love the tase of that hypocrisy. You go round calling people "retards" and think you have any business accusing anybody else of being a jerk? Try leading by example. Don't be surprised when people give up trying to talk reasonably and just join you on your level.
RE: Palm's sad new marketing
mikecane @ 8/25/2007 3:13:03 PM # Q
I only call *retards* retard. And the consensus here is with that opinion. You retard.

RE: Palm's sad new marketing
twrock @ 8/25/2007 9:22:52 PM # Q
Give it up already! Unless someone is a complete newbie to this site, they've long ago concluded what they think of both of you and the posts you make. You aren't "winning" anything anymore.

(Yowsa! I guess I'm in quite the mood this morning. Too much coffee already?)


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

Reply to this comment

Article link: Linux smartphones, iPhone and Foleo

twrock @ 8/23/2007 8:54:27 PM # Q
http://weblog.infoworld.com/yager/archives/2007/08/apple_gives_lin.html?source=rss
I found it interesting. YMMV.

Some highlights:

Linux developers have been dying for a phone of their own ever since Sharp killed the Zaurus Linux-based PDA. Apple's decision to close iPhone to 3rd-party applications gave the green light to Linux phones and mobile devices.
...
Of the big players in handsets, Palm is definitely where the mobile Linux action is. Its Foleo "mobile companion" is everything you could want in a sub-sub-notebook clamshell: An efficient Intel Xscale 32-bit ARM CPU, five hours of battery life, a 1024 x 600 display, support for an external display, storage expansion through SD and Compact Flash memory cards as well as USB, Palm, and Windows Mobile sync, Wi-Fi, and an Ubuntu Linux development environment. You can hack Foleo and flash your code directly to the Foleo's non-volatile memory. You do so at your own risk but also, likely, to your delight.
...
Palm promises an introductory price of $499 and delivery "this summer," but Palm booth reps told me that the thing is finished.
...
As I said about iPhone, bragging about running an open OS on your device, when source code for said device is not published, is noise. Motorola is on the brink of going truly open or emulating iPhone's business model. Perhaps it's waiting to see how Apple fares. Palm, OpenMoko and some others are pushing ahead. Mobile Linux is not a gold mine yet, but whatever gold there is to be had is completely untapped.



Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Article link: Linux smartphones, iPhone and Foleo
SeldomVisitor @ 8/24/2007 6:37:42 AM # Q
> ...Palm is definitely where the mobile Linux action is...

Perhaps.

Motorola and Asus might think otherwise.

RE: Article link: Linux smartphones, iPhone and Foleo
mikecane @ 8/24/2007 10:41:50 AM # Q
> ...Palm is definitely where the mobile Linux action is...

Hahahahahaha.

What, the Nokia (Anti-)Internet Tablet doesn't exist? Look at how long that's been out. Where's the flood of apps?

Keep having those Linux wet dreams.

Reply to this comment

Goldberg was right

SeldomVisitor @ 9/4/2007 7:03:17 PM # Q
Lack a sense of direction, indeed.

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