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Comments on: LinuxWorld Hands-On Foleo Demo Video

A new video about the Foleo taken at LinuxWorld has been posted to Vnunet. In the video, Palm’s Ben Combee, a frequent PIC poster, discusses Palm’s new Foleo Mobile Companion and gives an interesting hands-on demonstration. Most of the information given in the video is already known and has made the rounds online but Ben does delve into some tasty details about the bundled applications and app menu, the Foleo's remote desktop capabilities and the Foleo’s Intel/Marvell Xscale CPU choice.

Mr. Combee still refers to the device’s release date as "later this summer". The full-length video can be found here and is 5:16 in length.

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I'm warming to it

justauser @ 8/10/2007 6:18:55 PM # Q
The more I see it the more I like it. Just wish I had a use for it.

RE: I'm warming to it
krosfyah @ 8/10/2007 8:38:50 PM # Q
I'm gonna buy one. I travel quite a bit and need to be able to quickly check flights/hotels/transportation options. I almost missed a flight a month ago because I had to quickly find an alternate flight and it took me 15 minutes to boot-up and then my bloothtooth GPS connection crapped out (for no reason). Instant On would have seriously reduced my stress.

This thing is perfect for me. I was sckeptical until I thought about most of my laptop usage when I'm away from the house or office. 90% of what I do is on the web. BAM. This thing will work perfect for me.

"Foolio"? Naw.

I can do email.
I can do wireless web.
I can do Word/Excel.
I can LogMeIn to my desktop.

That'll cover 99% of my needs.

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/10/2007 9:11:02 PM # Q
> ...I can do email.
> I can do wireless web.
> I can do Word/Excel.
> I can LogMeIn to my desktop.

And if you buy, say, an ASUS EEE you can do that and much much more for hundreds of dollars less!

Hmmm....

=========

"LogMeIn Free" is a java app. It runs under a browser. Don't need no stinkin' Fooleo for that.

RE: I'm warming to it
twrock @ 8/10/2007 9:36:09 PM # Q
Unfortunately the ASUS EEE has a seriously undersized keyboard and seriously undersized screen (in that low-end model). I had hopes for it as well, until I realized its flaws were show-stoppers for me.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
Fooleo = PAIN
Gekko @ 8/10/2007 11:00:56 PM # Q
>I can do email.
I can do wireless web.
I can do Word/Excel.


don't fool yourself into thinking you'll get even close to a PC-comparable experience for these tasks, silly. you'll get a clunky, buggy, slow, crashing, incompatible, uni-tasking, discombobulating, disrupting, frustrating, painful, and overall shitty experience.

you've been warned.


RE: I'm warming to it
dkirker @ 8/10/2007 11:17:17 PM # Q
And who said that the Foleo was a PC/laptop replacement?

I was told otherwise.

RE: I'm warming to it
freakout @ 8/10/2007 11:44:26 PM # Q
As for "slow": the hands-on vids that have popped up have all shown an impressively snappy response.

It's not meant to be a PC. Although with a stronger software package it could give low-end laptops a good run for their money.

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/11/2007 8:54:16 AM # Q
> ...you'll get a clunky, buggy, slow, crashing, incompatible,
> uni-tasking, discombobulating, disrupting, frustrating, painful,
> and overall shitty experience.
>
> you've been warned.

Oh come on!

PALM is dumping their own Linux and soon going with WindRiver Linux for a reason, ya know!

RE: I'm warming to it
cervezas @ 8/11/2007 11:12:48 AM # Q
Anyone still care about SeldomVisitor's mendacious spewing here?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/11/2007 11:18:23 AM # Q
Reality sucks, don't it?


RE: I'm warming to it
cervezas @ 8/11/2007 11:24:35 AM # Q
Reality sucks, don't it?

That does seem to be your motto. You should really give it a chance, though. You don't seem to have had much success in convincing people of your FUD: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8033/#111870

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: I'm warming to it
krosfyah @ 8/11/2007 12:00:34 PM # Q
"don't fool yourself into thinking you'll get even close to a PC-comparable experience for these tasks, silly. you'll get a clunky, buggy, slow, crashing, incompatible, uni-tasking, discombobulating, disrupting, frustrating, painful, and overall shitty experience.

you've been warned."

I'm not looking for a laptop "replacement".
I've got a laptop for work.
I've got a desktop at home.

What I want is some small and quick to do legitimate web browsing while I'm running around. If it isn't 1024x768 with a decent keyboard, then it's useless.

The ASUS EEE does not have built in bluetooth integration with my Treo, if it has any itegration at all. With the "Foolio", I can pick up 802.11 or bluetooth to my phone for GPRS connectivity. In a pinch, I should always be online.

People who think this is a laptop replacement is missing the point.

It's Always on - Always connected. More and More, all applications are going to the web. In 10 years (maybe 5), all apps will be web enabled. All you need is a device to get you on the web quickly and your off and running.

RE: I'm warming to it
twrock @ 8/11/2007 1:05:51 PM # Q
Reality sucks, don't it?

Maybe, but continuing to avoid it at all costs is not going to help your problem, SV.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: I'm warming to it
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2007 9:22:46 AM # Q
close to a PC-comparable experience

As long as it's nothing like that, I'll buy two. Even if they don't otherwise work.

Pat Horne

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 9:37:16 AM # Q
Lol!

Interestingly, the "only" strangeness I've had with XP Pro on a PC is the cursor disappearing on occasion on the login screen, disallowing logging in until C-A-D is pressed to bring up the alternate login. I don't believe I've had ANY other full crashes at all.

Ubuntu Linux, however, a pretty much virgin install on a PC, has gone catatonic multiple times (that is, GUI is catatonic - I did not try telneting in, for example, to see if it was otherwise alive), Firefox has exited completely without notice, etc.

So "PC-comparable experience" can run the gamut!.

RE: I'm warming to it
Gekko @ 8/12/2007 10:00:43 AM # Q

your PC has spoiled you, Reverend, and you don't know how good you got it and you take it for granted. using the fooleo exclusively for a few days will cure you.

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 10:27:11 AM # Q
> ...using the fooleo exclusively for a few days will cure you.

== "...The menus are apparently just alphabetical -- Docs To Go,
== Email, File Manager, etc -- and there doesn't seem to be a
== way to edit the menus, which are flat rather than cascading
== (e.g. the DTG apps aren't in submenus). You can assign
== shortcut keys, though, which is practice are faster to use
== than the trackpoint. What happens after all of the keyboard's
== characters are used up, though, will be interesting to find out..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1329065&postcount=71

RE: I'm warming to it
Gekko @ 8/12/2007 10:41:37 AM # Q

i like this one -

"However, Foleo crashed with a pop up message when I try to open the web browser. So I tried reset the Foleo. It took two minutes to boot up. I guess this is kinda like my Treo 700P... it is instant on but reset takes a while to boot up."



RE: I'm warming to it
freakout @ 8/12/2007 5:19:51 PM # Q
two minutes to boot up

Unless he timed that with a stopwatch, I think it may be a little exaggerated. I used to swear my Treo 680 took that long too, until I actually timed it one day. 59 seconds (which is near-unacceptable, considering the 650 was 30). It's the old "watched pot never boils" adage.

RE: I'm warming to it
jca666us @ 8/12/2007 7:00:11 PM # Q
Freak,

He was talking about the amount of time it took to reboot a Foleo - nothing to do with a Treo EXCEPT stating that (like a Treo) it took longer to reset than to turn on.

Not a good sign regardless.

RE: I'm warming to it
freakout @ 8/12/2007 8:01:18 PM # Q
Jca,

And I was saying that unless he actually timed it, things can seem to take a lot longer than they actually do. Duh....

RE: I'm warming to it
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 8:12:29 PM # Q
Just took 1 minute and 5 seconds to hard-boot that Ubuntu PC I've posted about from "catatonic GUI crash" to login prompt after reboot.

600MHz PIII with a GByte of RAM.

RE: I'm warming to it
jca666us @ 8/12/2007 8:58:42 PM # Q
freak, admittedly a long reboot time on such a "lightweight" device is not a good sign. We all know you're a foleo apologist. I'll reboot my iphone and let you know how long it takes.

RE: I'm warming to it
jca666us @ 8/12/2007 9:04:16 PM # Q
36 seconds

RE: I'm warming to it
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 9:44:47 PM # Q
2 minutes is a pretty big exaggeration.

RE: I'm warming to it
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 9:47:10 PM # Q
EDIT: (append to above comment)

I wouldn't expect it to be much different from the iPhone boot time. For any mobile device for that fact.

RE: I'm warming to it
freakout @ 8/12/2007 10:33:22 PM # Q
We all know you're a foleo apologist

Lol! No, I'm perfectly capable of being objective. I would not be employed by the site otherwise. I can see that Foleo has an extremely limited software package, a high price tag and meagre hardware specs. It also has a lovely form factor + weight, the concept is intriguing and it's open to third-party devs. Who knows what we'll see developed for it?

Rather than labeling me an apologist, you should label yourself a... what's the opposite of apologist? Critic? I'm not sure that fits - it implies you have more reasoning ability than you actually demonstrate...

RE: I'm warming to it
jca666us @ 8/14/2007 12:50:16 PM # Q
Let's stay on point here :)

Well, when you get a foleo Freak, reboot the thing and let's see how long it takes to fire up. Anything over a minute is garbage.

I agree with your opinions on the foleo, except that the form factor is uninspiring and boring.

I'd buy a Foleo in a heartbeat if it was a touchscreen/touchpad - $600 for a half-baked laptop is unfortunate.

Ubuntu freeze followup
SeldomVisitor @ 11/10/2007 2:54:42 PM # Q
In this post:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/8869/#136144

I mentioned that a fairly virgin install of Ubuntu Linux on an old 600MHz PIII would freeze and be totally unresponsive GUI-wise. To follow up on that, it was also catatonic when attempting to access it via telnet - totally dead requiring hard reboot.

However, there was a bug fix just posted that mentioned disabling the "powernowd" CPU-frequency-changing daemon. I did that and the freeze-on-visit-Engadget went away.

Useful info, perhaps, for those playing with Linux soon with the Google Phone SDK being released Monday!

Reply to this comment

Students

Rhauer @ 8/10/2007 10:14:33 PM # Q
It seems perfect for a student.

Reply to this comment

Tablet

Rhauer @ 8/10/2007 10:55:02 PM # Q
It seems to me that this concept should have more of a tablet format where you can flip the screen. Better for ebooks and video. Put in a touch screen for viewing the web and more and this device works.

Would it be costly to add flip screen and touch.

RE: Tablet
bulls96 @ 8/10/2007 11:01:48 PM # Q
I am guessing we'll see that in Foleo 2 or Foleo 3.

Of course it wont cost $499 anymore.

RE: Tablet
razorpit @ 8/11/2007 12:17:09 AM # Q
Nope, it'll be $99.95 in the bargain bin...

What a load of crap. Palm will be dead before Foldeo 2 or 3 sees the light of day.

RE: Tablet
freakout @ 8/11/2007 12:54:06 AM # Q
^^ Snooze. How long have people been predicting the death of Palm now? Give up already!
RE: Tablet
PacManFoo @ 8/11/2007 4:43:15 PM # Q
Palm's not dead yet! See here-> http://bdball.googlepages.com/Palm.jpg

It's just a flesh wound.

I don't know why the Black Knight reminds me so much of Palm.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

RE: Tablet
freakout @ 8/11/2007 10:17:07 PM # Q
But unlike King Arthur in that scene, the online verbal slayers of Palm have great difficulty in moving on...

Anyhoo, a better Monty Python sketch to make your point would have been this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GipFyAsYK1M

;)

RE: Tablet
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2007 9:24:50 AM # Q
Oh no. Mods, please redirect thread to "Rock-Paper-Scissors" before the server bogs down.

Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499

Gekko @ 8/10/2007 11:04:01 PM # Q

Dell Inspiron 1501
Mobile AMD Sempron™ 3500+ (1.8GHz/512KB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic
Size: 60GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
FREE! 1GB8 DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
$499

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspn_1501?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19



RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
freakout @ 8/10/2007 11:48:45 PM # Q
How much does it weigh? How long does the battery last? Will it fit neatly in my backpack with room to spare? How long does it take to boot? How big is the power brick?

Don't get me wrong, it looks great and the price is fantastic. But it's not the same kind of device.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
razorpit @ 8/11/2007 12:20:22 AM # Q
How much does it weigh? How long does the battery last?


Who cares? If you are wireless how long do you think the battery in your Palm is going to last? How long do you think you would be able to actually do work on the Foldeo before you go mentally insane working on the tiny screen and keys?

Once the battery is dead on my laptop I'm about ready to put it down anyways and go get some fresh air.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
sungod @ 8/11/2007 12:21:12 AM # Q
Did you bother to check the rest of the specks on your $499 poster child?

Have you ever run Vista on a Sempron/Celeron CPU. It's not pretty!
Think of XP, it's min spec is a 300Mhz P1 it'll run alright but like a dog and it'll only get worse as you add software.

Now lets look deeper.
OS: “Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic“. All the recourse hogging of the Premium vision without the pretty GUI to show for it.
Battery: “29 WHr 4-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery”. That gives you about 2hrs as long as it sits there and doesn't even turn the screen saver on.
Screen: 14in. So it's much bigger than the Foleo.
Weight: 6lbs compared to 2.5lbs. That's what I look for in a mobile device. Fat AND heavy.

So we cant do anything about the size and the weight but lets spec this thing up to some thing that can match the Foleo.
Processor: AMD Turion™ 64 X2 Dual-Core Mobile Technology TL-56. A dual core processer is a must have for Vista. +$110
OS: To be fair we'll leave it. The Foleo's OS ain't that pretty.
Screen: yea I saved -$10 on the 14in screen
Battery: Dell claim 5.5hrs out of their 9cell battery but that prob still doesn't take WiFi into account. +$149
Int Sec: McAfee Virus scan plus. Linux can't catch windows viruses. +$79
Office: Office Sml Bus. I would have taken Standard but they didn't give me the choice and Home & Student isn't for business users. +$279
For a grand total of $1106.
And you still aren't getting the auto sync with your Smart phone.

Can everyone please stop saying the Foleo is bad value compared to a budget Note book because they aren't good value they're just CHEAP.

Att Palm:
Foleo = Smartphone companion
T|X = Dumbphone companion
If you think a Foleo will sell and a PDA wont you're out of your mind.
SunGod aka Luigi(AusPUG)

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
freakout @ 8/11/2007 12:47:02 AM # Q
Who cares? If you are wireless how long do you think the battery in your Palm is going to last? How long do you think you would be able to actually do work on the Foldeo before you go mentally insane working on the tiny screen and keys?

Is that a joke? Foleo has a full-size keyboard, and a 10-inch screen. And as for weight, I care a lot. It's one of the reasons I don't already have a laptop: they're heavy, bulky and are not really designed with mobility in mind. Windows (or any desktop OS) is a pain in the butt without a desk, real mouse and full keyboard to work with.

Foleo brings PDA sensibilities to a mini-laptop form factor. And about time, too. Laptops have been nothing but compromised desktop PCs for far too long and the space is long-overdue for some fresh ideas.

Certainly, it's too pricey, but the concept is quite sound.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
sungod @ 8/11/2007 1:12:54 AM # Q
Freakout is right.
The Foleo isn't for people who are happy with their notebooks.
It's for people who are unhappy with their notebooks or happy with their desktops but are forced to carry a notebook for reasons out of their control.

Once the battery is dead on my laptop I'm about ready to put it down anyways and go get some fresh air.

It sounds like you fit into category 1. With instant on and less fuss the Foleo would allow you to get that work done quicker without worrying about when the battery goes flat....

Sorry about that I went into work mode for a sec there.

Att Palm:
Foleo = Smartphone companion
T|X = Dumbphone companion
If you think a Foleo will sell and a PDA wont you're out of your mind.
SunGod aka Luigi(AusPUG)

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
dkirker @ 8/11/2007 4:16:27 AM # Q
The Foleo isn't even for those that are unhappy with their notebooks.

I have a MacBook Pro that I am very happy with. I would never give it up. I am soo happy with it that it is now my desktop.

The Foleo, simply put, is "what happens when a PDA grows up," (I'll withhold the source's name for now, but that quote can be seen previously in a PC World article http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/005126.html).

The Foleo fits the needs that a PDA or smartphone can't fit and that a notebook is too much for (dragging my notebook into meetings is a bit of a pain).

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
twrock @ 8/11/2007 5:38:57 AM # Q
(Gekko deserves yet another negative reply.)
Didn't you get it in the last round of "gee whiz, I can get a brick of a laptop for cheaper than the Foleo" thread? Hopefully you are just bored and spending yet a little spare time trolling.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
Gekko @ 8/11/2007 10:14:44 AM # Q
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
justauser @ 8/11/2007 10:57:43 PM # Q
It is a fallacious argument comparing the Foleo to a bottom of the range laptop. You need to compare it with the intended customer's first choice.

The sort of person who SHOULD buy something like a Foleo is a student or business-type guy with low tech requirements. The fact is that both these kind of people are currently buying the highest spec laptops they can afford and just using it for email, word processing and *sigh* myspace (it truly is a waste). The fact is the Foleo meets all the needs of certain profile users and more without paying for stuff they'll never ever ever use or understand.

The million dollar question is - will they buy it? Ever been for asked advice from a computer-illiterate about purchasing a laptop? I normally tell them "a $10 calculator will do all you want". But off they go and buy a $3000AU machine.

Personally, I think the Foleo will be perceived by the market as a tech-toy. It may appeal to gadget loving geeks like myself. But Palm have an uphill battle with the general populous. They need to hire Apple's marketing crew - not their tech guys. It's perception that counts.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
freakout @ 8/12/2007 12:11:12 AM # Q
My Aunty Mary is a Senior Lecturer in anthropology at the University of Western Sydney (and a scarily smart lady). She's hardly a gadget geek. At a recent family gathering she was talking about how she hates having to lug her laptop around and wanted something lighter and simpler for writing stuff. Loves the idea of the Foleo.

Palm definitely needs better marketing. But far from being seen as a toy, I think many people like my aunt would see it as a tool for getting things done.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
justauser @ 8/12/2007 1:33:55 AM # Q
Well let's hope for Palm's sake that the market thinks as clearly as your Aunt. But I fear it is driven by the same gen y mindset that set aflame the ringtone industry ("$5 per ringtone and 2 ringtones a week? - how could I go wrong?") As someone posted back when Foleo was announced "does Foleo have the cool-factor?"... hmmm...

The price is about what people would be prepared to pay, and the philosophy has merit (easy sync, light, instant on, long battery life, quick access, wireless). I dare say if Apple were releasing an identical product, the "iFoleo" would do very well. But Apple have quite a bit of momentum behind them right now. I don't think Palm will pull it off. We'll soon see.

That having been said, I may buy one myself just for a bit of fun. It looks like one of those things that I will frown upon until I have one, and then swear I can't live without it once I start carrying it around.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 7:20:09 AM # Q
Hypothesis 1:

> ...It may appeal to gadget loving geeks like myself...

and

Hypothesis 2:

> ...The price is about what people would be prepared to pay...

and

Hypothesis 3:

> ...Palm definitely needs better marketing...

Counterargument 1:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=144083

Counterargument 2:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=148725

Counterargument 3:

There is none - the hypothesis stands!


RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
Gekko @ 8/12/2007 8:18:46 AM # Q
>My Aunty Mary is a Senior Lecturer in anthropology at the University of Western Sydney (and a scarily smart lady).

never confuse well educated with smart.


RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
LiveFaith @ 8/12/2007 9:38:27 AM # Q
Just a side note:

I think you guys may be confusing "marketing" with "advertising". The majority of the "marketing" for the Foleo has been done and is etched in stone for better or worse. About the only thing remaining is advertising, which is one component of marketing.

Marketing includes positioning, looking for a target market, trying to anticipate the future market. IOW, trying to position a product so that a profitable current and future market will buy. Advertising is designed to bring it all to fruition in the end.

JMO, but I think Palm has been pretty decent at "Marketing", at least for Treos. How else can you continue to even exist with such outdated technology? They have gotten their product in places others have yet to.

Yeah, they will need some good advertising to help the market see the benefits of the Foleo concept. Whoever sees this as another laptop will never be a buyer.

Pat Horne

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 9:46:25 AM # Q
Well...there's "marketing" and there's "marketing".

In a corporation you usually have something like a "marketing" department and a "sales" department. "Marketing" does the "requirements analysis" as WELL as the "advertising", and "sales" does the cold-calling, etc. And, in general, the executive as a whole lead by the CEO does the broader "future markets"-type analysis.

I know I was using this type of definition in my reply to the original "needs marketing" poster.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
freakout @ 8/12/2007 5:15:46 PM # Q
never confuse well educated with smart.

Oh, I know. Bush has an MBA doesn't he? ;)

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
jca666us @ 8/12/2007 7:08:21 PM # Q
>How much does it weigh? How long does the battery last? Will it fit neatly in my
>backpack with room to spare? How long does it take to boot? How big is the power
>brick?

>Don't get me wrong, it looks great and the price is fantastic. But it's not the same
>kind of device.

I think with the Foleo, we will need to see how stable and usable the device is, before comparing it with any laptop.

People aren't going to care if it's the "same kind" of device - they'll look to see if it is as capable as a $499 laptop. If it isn't, sales will be light.

I think when Foleo was conceived - years ago - most laptops were over a thousand dollars.

Prices on laptops have dropped to $499 - and for $499 most people would rather buy a laptop than a half-baked foleo.

If Foleo were priced at $99 or even $199, they'd sell tons of them.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
freakout @ 8/12/2007 8:24:23 PM # Q
It all depends on what you're looking for. "Most people" don't even understand the specs of the machines they're buying. Look at the reaction to Foleo, for instance: most people look at it and say 'laptop', regardless of the fact that Palm aren't pitching it as such. To these people, Foleo is a laptop, and provided it does what they need it to, then it's somewhat meagre specs won't make a whole lotta difference to them.

The important thing is that it's small and lightweight. It's too expensive and could do with a better software package, but internet tech geeks are not the target market. The hardware specs don't matter. (much)

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
jca666us @ 8/12/2007 9:17:56 PM # Q
hardware specs do matter - when non-tech folks go into a store.

They see a $499 laptop and a $499 foleo. They ask the salesperson, "what's the difference - which is better?"

Most tech folks would go with a laptop - greater functionality- windows compatibility - faster - better expansion capabilities.

The foleo would need to have a spectacular user experience and a lower cost - to really compete.

The form factor and the hardware specs. should have been better thought out.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 9:53:41 PM # Q
jca666us: "If Foleo were priced at $99 or even $199, they'd sell tons of them."

Duh... What mini-computer wouldn't?

"They see a $499 laptop and a $499 foleo. They ask the salesperson, "what's the difference - which is better?""

I have the feeling that these questions will be few, seeing as:

1. The Foleo will most likely not even be anywhere near the laptop section, rather next to the Treos or other PDAs.

2. Palm isn't targeting the Foleo as a laptop replacement. This question would be irrelevant and probably get the response that "The Foleo is not a laptop."

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
Gekko @ 8/12/2007 10:50:34 PM # Q

it's all a moot point anyway because the Fooleo is DOA.

mark my words: DOA.



RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 11:48:16 PM # Q
DOA? HA!

With what evidence?

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
hkklife @ 8/13/2007 10:55:02 AM # Q
For me pesonally, anything larger than, say, a LifeDrive falls into the "notebook/laptop" category, regardless of specs/weight/cost. That is, whether it has a 10.2" or a 14.1" or a 15.4" screen, it's too much damm trouble to lug around, especially with the extra gear (mouse, AC adapter, a thumbdrive, a carrying case etc).

And if it's a trip that ABSOLUTELY demands for a laptop, I want the full Wintel experience. I'll certainly carry my dual-core, Vista, 2gb RAM, DVD burnin', webcam integratin', game-playin' "real" laptop and not some toy like a Foleo. Counterstrike or Command & Conquer in a hotel room has to be my reward for lugging around that bulky laptop bag. Solitaire on a Foleo isn't gonna cut it. And, in all seriousness, I usually find the ability to burn DVDs and read a variety of memory card formats an invaluable capability of a fullsized laptop. Heven, I have to resrt to dial-up account occasionally when out in the sticks, mom'n pop hotel, or when at a piece of property with no highspeed access (yes folks, these places still do exist, especially in the south and midwest).

The whole point of a PDA-sized gadget is to avoid the "big laptop type bag" syndrome when traveling. Even in the height of PDA geekiness, I could carry a PDA in my pocket and then pack a small toiletry-sized bag into my luggage containing my digital camera, an SD card case, a folding IR or BT keyboard, Palm/cell/digicam travel chargers and two spare styli. If really traveling light, I could forego most of the above other than the chargers.

I (and many other users) STILL WANT a data-centric, TX-sized device with an integrated data modem (preferably EVDO) and wi-fi. I don't know why this is so difficult for Palm to grasp!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
hotpaw03 @ 8/13/2007 2:54:04 PM # Q
A lot of people already have full size laptops a *lot* better than a bottom end Dell, but can still afford to buy something thinner and lighter for use on-the-go. People who don't need real keyboards can buy and iPhone. The power-users can buy expensive sub-4-lb Thinkpads' and Vaios', and these sell reasonably well. But what can a non-power-user buy today in the thin and light category with a full-size keyboard?
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
jca666us @ 8/14/2007 1:09:24 PM # Q
>>"If Foleo were priced at $99 or even $199, they'd sell tons of them."
>Duh... What mini-computer wouldn't?

That's my point genius! I don't believe the Foleo provides any real value at a $600 price point - when someone can go and buy a laptop for $499. I feel the Foleo is overpriced and doesn't have a compelling enough design - the BOM for the Foleo can't be more than $150.

These things should be selling for about $300.

For comparison - iphone's BOM is (I think) $250 - and Apple are making about 55% profit - they can do this because the design/features/functionality of the iphone are compelling and provide greater value.

>>"They see a $499 laptop and a $499 foleo. They ask the salesperson, "what's the difference - which is better?""

>I have the feeling that these questions will be few, seeing as:

>1. The Foleo will most likely not even be anywhere near the laptop section, rather next to the Treos or other
>PDAs.

>2. Palm isn't targeting the Foleo as a laptop replacement. This question would be irrelevant and probably
>get the response that "The Foleo is not a laptop."

I hope for your sake you're right - however

#1 - Most stores I've been in have the laptop and pda sections very close together.

#2 - I would agree with your assessment, except Palm gave Foleo a laptop form factor. It will cause comparisons regardless.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
hkklife @ 8/14/2007 3:44:21 PM # Q
From what I've seen, the handful of stores that still HAVE a PDA area are downsizing them and putting the Digital Diary-type products & cheap Franklin spell checkers & calculators next to the Palm PDAs. Presumably, the Fooleo will reside in this area of the store.....probably the lowest-trafficked, least thrilling department in any regular electronics big-box type store.

If Palm puts the Fooleo next to the <$500 Wintel machines, it'll be shunned by the sales clerks. If Palm puts the Fooleo in the PDA/calculator section, it'll be ignored & overlooked. Palm cannot afford to buy prime endcap or eye-level space for the Foleo so that laves the handful of Palm company stores/kiosks and the usual online places to really sell the Fooleo in great volumes. Of course, there's always ShopNBC or QVC or HSN which is where most "electronic appliance" type products like this (Audrey, WebTV, CD-i) go to die....

Palm's best bet for generation a lot of buzz and cheap press, IMO, is to get the Fooleo featured as a regular companion device on a TV show like "24" or in a hot new movie or as the next Bond film gadget of choice...but then again, look how much good the appearance of the Atari Portfolio in Terminator 2 did for it.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2007 4:21:03 PM # Q
> ...to really sell the Fooleo in great volumes..

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

Oh, my sides hurt!

HA HA HA!

HA HA HA!

Snort!

Giggle.

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2007 4:23:55 PM # Q
> ...Presumably, the Fooleo will reside in this area of the store...

I believe PALM said these guys would be sold by PALM only for awhile - probably while PALM scratches its collective head and tries to come up with a way of marketing them in the real world venues.

Prediction: No Retail Space for Fooleo
Gekko @ 8/14/2007 5:51:39 PM # Q

my prediction is that there will be no long-term retail space for the fooleo. you will have two places to buy it:

1. palm.com
2. palm store/airport store/kiosk

this will not help fooleo sales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6yDBiuNQcQ



RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2007 6:35:36 PM # Q
> ...this will not help fooleo sales...

True.

However, PALM =does= have its new marketing site http://www.palmthing.com !

They'll sell a gajillion of 'em through there!

ER..right?

Uh...right?

You know...right?

Giggle.

[I think this is called "Viral Marjketing", right? Get a bunch of Bozos like myself to note, for free, the new site to the fanboys?]

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
Gekko @ 8/14/2007 7:15:48 PM # Q

chicken or egg?

imo, palm will never hit critical mass with the fooleo without a strong retail presence.

is circuit city, best buy, staples, et al going to waste precious retail space fon the fooleo for very long if at all?

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 = $499
edoan @ 8/15/2007 5:56:13 PM # Q
The folks comparing $499 for a Foleo vs. $499 for an entry-level notebook PC are the ones who think $25K for a Mazda Miata vs. $25K for a Honda Accord is a no-brainer. I used to have an IBM WorkPad z50 (WinCE H/PC Pro subnotebook, 2.5 lbs), and it was OUTSTANDING for what it did when I was a college student. I took notes all day, sent/received e-mail (by 33.6Kbps modem, mind you), and could look at MS Office files. The Foleo is the modern update for that H/PC Pro.

Another analogy ... a $499 Foleo + $1500 real notebook PC (e.g. ThinkPad T61 or MacBook Pro, not the toys from Dell or Gateway) is a lot like having a $300 point-and-shoot + a $1000 DSLR camera. There's a place and function for each!

Reply to this comment

Yeah, well

mikecane @ 8/11/2007 11:25:37 AM # Q
Good to see they're still working on it, at least. The photo app almost looks like a real app now.

But how do those photos get *in* there?

I don't care about email syncing. An iPhone has the mail I use built-in and I've already used it at an Apple Store to take a pic of myself and email it to myself.

And that customized Opera -- can it save web graphics? Can it do any kind of downloads?

YouTube? At all? Bueller, Bueller...

RE: Yeah, well
Gekko @ 8/11/2007 11:40:16 AM # Q

buggy, crippled, proprietary ware will burn you again and again.


RE: Yeah, well
rsc1000 @ 8/11/2007 3:42:38 PM # Q
>>But how do those photos get *in* there?

Well, it has a file system, it has usb, it can handle email attachments - where's the problem?

>>An iPhone has the mail I use built-in and I've already used it at an Apple Store to take a pic of myself and email it to myself.

Sure, but thats an apples and oranges thing. Neither my desktop or laptop have cameras - and that's fine. Where's the full keyboard and usable screen on that iPhone? it doesn't have either. The iPhone is a great device - but it isn't very suited to doing any of the stuff a foleo is designed to do.

RE: Yeah, well
DarthRepublican @ 8/12/2007 3:19:19 AM # Q

Good to see they're still working on it, at least. The photo app almost looks like a real app now.

But how do those photos get *in* there?

I don't care about email syncing. An iPhone has the mail I use built-in and I've already used it at an Apple Store to take a pic of myself and email it to myself.

And that customized Opera -- can it save web graphics? Can it do any kind of downloads?

YouTube? At all? Bueller, Bueller...

You get the photos into the Foleo the same way you would with just about any PDA/Smartphone, you pull the SD card and stick it into the Foleo's SD slot. Oh wait, your iPhone doesn't have an SD card. Well, at least it's really, really pretty and its sensitive touchscreen encourages you wash your hands frequently and keep your fingernails trimmed and clean.

Otherwise I do agree with you to a certain extent. I'd want the Foleo to have a real e-mail client that can retrieve messages independently of the Treo -- although I might settle for using Yahoo Mail (which runs just fine on my Treo 600). I'd want an RSS reader -- although I'm liking Google Reader more and more these days. I'd want to be able to do Youtube. I'd want to read Usenet. I'd want to be able to save that funny or cool picture I come across on the web (is there any reason you think that you won't be able to do so on the Foleo?). Beyond this, I still think that the Foleo is too expensive for what it does but I'm liking the concept more and more.

RE: Yeah, well
PilotMad @ 8/12/2007 8:07:27 AM # Q
For obvious marketing reasons, so as not to draw to many comparisons with a laptop, Palm emphasizes the synchronisation with a smartphone. However, I do not believe for one moment that the foleo is incapable of downloading email without a smartphone.

The smartphone aspect allows it's use as a cellular modem with the Foleo (when wifi is not available), but the Foleo is also wi-fi capable in it's own right. I suspect that the email sysncronisation is not much more than a palm desktop like syncronisation. Email downloaded using wifi on the foleo will be synchronisable with email downloaded on the smartphone.

Finally, even if the above were not the case, and Foleo client software were entirely dependent on the smartphone. This would be one of the first areas to be addressed by developers or enthusiasts.

RE: Yeah, well
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 8:37:04 AM # Q
This is how Fooleo works:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9471/#135794

That is, specially-written software on BOTH Fooleo and "other device" (who says it's limited to phones!?) is needed to provide synchronization...for each application (*).

That is, each application that it is desired to have something running on the Fooleo that is "in sync", whatever that means per application (**), currently will have to have an instantiation that is Fooleo-specific.

==========

(*) Somewhere around here, I believe, was a mini-discussion sometime back that hit on the thought that, due to historical reasons, Palm devices had a wide variety of data representation formats for applications, making a generic "auto-sync" method unlikely or, in essence, impossible (***). That mini-discussion may have been made prior to the Fooleo being introduced or contemporary to it; unfortunately, I find the Search function on PiC strangely impossible for me to correctly use so couldn't track it down - maybe using something similar to "sync format data app" might work.

==========

(**) There's "sync" and there's "sync"...for example, if I modify a document in a word processor on my device or Fooleo, do the modifications get sent across to the other device periodically, or when I do a "save", or when I exit the application, or on some time interval? All could be different implementations of "auto-sync" - no overt user-interaction needed to get the devices data synced up. Or does the data need to be MANUALLY synced - that is, I need to invoke a special application that synchronizes it (and maybe other already-changed data); mDayscape is an example of an application that apparently needs manual synchronization:

== "...Sync with your phone - push the button and all your calendar
== events, contacts and tasks will be synchronized with your smartphone
== via Bluetooth. Things that you add on Foleo will become available
== on your phone and information that you enter on your phone will
== appear on Foleo. No configuration, no set up..."

-- http://www.motionapps.com/mdayscape/_palmfoleo.jsp

(***) "essentially impossible" = if a "generic" solution requires too high-complexity/resources, it is "essentially impossible" in this usage.

RE: Yeah, well
mikecane @ 8/12/2007 11:34:55 AM # Q
You all missed the point of my Photos Q. My mind was locked in Sync Mode. Yeah, you could pull them from an SD card. But what about d/ling them? If they are email ATTs, will they plop into that Photo app automagically?

I think with Photos alone, I'd be able to crash this sucker in less than ten minutes...

If Palm dropped the price to $399 -- which is what I think its functional value is equal to in the real world -- I think it'd sell like hotcakes. Even a cranky SOB like me would consider picking one up at that price. But above that? Feh! You can get a bare-bones Raon Everun for a little bit more than Flopeo MSRP and it'd be a hell of a lot more capable.

http://www.dynamism.com/everun/pricing.shtml

RE: Yeah, well
freakout @ 8/12/2007 5:13:18 PM # Q
If they are email ATTs, will they plop into that Photo app automagically?

Not quite. THe hands-on vids have shown document attachments being opened from email in Docs 2 Go, but you probably have to save them afterward. I imagine it's the same for photos, although it'd be common sense for them to put in a "save all attachments" option. Of course, when have technology and common sense ever been close friends? \rhetorical

RE: Yeah, well
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 6:05:44 PM # Q
> ...Ithink with Photos alone, I'd be able to crash this sucker
> in less than ten minutes...

Lol! Talk about touching a sympathetic nerve!

I just booted my secondary PC because The Kidlet wanted The Fast One Yet Again. That 2nd machine is running ("newly" installed) Ubuntu. I opened only a Firefox window and had three tabs up - probably ALL of them had some sort of Flash on it.

Shut down ONE tab and Poof! - Firefox ingloriously exited completely.

"less than 10 minutes", indeed!

Sheesh.

(obviously almost virgin Ubuntu with the latest Firefox is not ready for prime time - or at least not ready for someone intolerant of such things - such events are now literally expected sometime during EACH powered-on session)

RE: Yeah, well
mikecane @ 8/13/2007 1:03:34 PM # Q
freakout: I think you have less brains that a rotting potato. I'd appreciate it if you'd eff out of my threads. You have nothing -- NOTHING! -- creedible to say about anything.

RE: Yeah, well
freakout @ 8/13/2007 5:23:58 PM # Q
Love you too, Mike.
RE: Yeah, well
twrock @ 8/13/2007 8:37:01 PM # Q
You have nothing -- NOTHING! -- creedible to say about anything.

But Mike, if that's the standard, we'd only average two posts a day here on PIC. (And I'm not talking about two posts per person either.) It's pretty obvious by now that credibility has nothing to do with 95% of what gets posted here. The majority of us are just spouting our baseless opinions. (Or in the case of a one person who accounts for way more than his share of posts, it's just a fun place to spew the latest FUD.) Pity the person who thinks this stuff is at all credible.

Enjoy life! It's all fun!

Right?


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: Yeah, well
freakout @ 8/13/2007 9:37:05 PM # Q
I just find it absurd that he claims ownership of a virtual conversation on the Internet. Megalomania much? Not to mention hypocritical, given the amount of times he posted worthless "retard" insults in the iPhone editorial comments.
RE: Yeah, well
mikecane @ 8/14/2007 11:08:19 AM # Q
It's so funny that the little retard who is paid in amounts equal to a Happy Meal thinks that because he can now afford Happy Meals he has some sort of cred. Never happen.

Reply to this comment

Modular Computing

krosfyah @ 8/11/2007 12:27:49 PM # Q
Folio represents a new way to think about computing and this is just the first step.

Hardware:
We have phones.
We have PC's.
We have laptops.

Software:
We have applications (Quicken, Email, Office suits, etc.)
We have datafiles (pictures, MP3's, etc.)
We have multimedia (video, music)
etc.

How nice would it be if these various things all worked together in a "SYSTEM".

Imagine this:
You are at home typing your neighborhood newsletter and you get an email with a link to a new song that you promptly download. You look at the time realizing you gotta go meets some friends for lunch at 1pm. You grab your phone and Folio. Because the folio was in bloothtooth range of your PC, the newsletter, email and MP3 all automatically synced to the Folio.

You get to the restaurant and you get a text that your friend is running late. But you get an email from a friend with pics on their newborn kid. You pop open your Folio, which syncs up the email so you can view the pics. Since you've got time, you keep working on your newsletter that you started on your desktop PC. The restuarant is noisy so you plug in your headphones and listen to the MP3 on your phone that automatically transfered from your desktop --> Folio --> smart phone.

Modular Computing. All your things work seemlessly with each other as a single system. Not a bunch of disjointed things requiring you hours of work to manually connect this crap and requiring you to buy a bunch of software to tranfer all these files in a slow, unreliable and mostly manual way.

Folio is a LONG LONG LONG way from realizing this vision. But I see the direction they'd like to take us. First step. Hats off to Palm for breaking the Microsoft mold and starting to move to a world where technology integrates with our lives rather than the other way around.

For the time being, just having a device that allows me reliable web browsing while away from home and not lugging some bloated laptop with me. I can leave my laptop at work now.

RE: Modular Computing
Gekko @ 8/11/2007 4:17:53 PM # Q

you're taking your fooleo with you to the restaurant? belt clip?

RE: Modular Computing
krosfyah @ 8/11/2007 4:52:56 PM # Q
These days they make handy things call bags. You can put them over your shoulder, on your back, on the seat next to you or even leave them nearby in the car. There handy little devices. Try it out sometime.

Besides, this whole notition of modular computing, the best response you've got is to shoot it down citing a belt clip? *sigh*

RE: Modular Computing
Gekko @ 8/11/2007 5:36:52 PM # Q

manbag? nice.


RE: Modular Computing
ChiA @ 8/11/2007 6:44:04 PM # Q
The restuarant is noisy so you plug in your headphones and listen to the MP3 on your phone

Sounds like someone struggling with their work:life balance. To misquote Timothy Leary, sometimes it's best to turn off, tune in and drop out.

I find it's a struggle enough to find a decent somewhere and something to eat, pay for it then actually eat, nevermind start fiddling with taking a Foleo out of a folio.


RE: Modular Computing
krosfyah @ 8/11/2007 6:52:38 PM # Q
Struggling with work/life balance? :)

Not sure if you noticed but it is a FICTIONAL story to illustrate HOW phones/laptops/computers should work together ...and not be little techno islands with little to no link to others devices.

The folio is the first device introduced, since the original Palm Pilot, that attempts to connect your devices together.

Moral of the story ...whatever your work/life balance is, all your devices should work with you as a system rather than you conforming to your devices.

RE: manbag
halcyon @ 8/11/2007 9:46:23 PM # Q
"It's not a purse, it's a European carryall!"

RE: Modular Computing
freakout @ 8/11/2007 10:26:05 PM # Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFFQZty8VX8

Seinfeld: funny guy. Terrible actor...

RE: Modular Computing
sgiga @ 8/12/2007 5:38:36 AM # Q
"Moral of the story ...whatever your work/life balance is, all your devices should
work with you as a system rather than you conforming to your devices."

Sure, but how could you tell the difference? I mean, this is as meaningless as saying that society should adapt to you, you shouldn't adapt to society.

Take the most basic of technology, the knife or the sword. Anyone can learn to use a knife within a few minutes to slice bread, but to become a master of the sword, to reach a level where you and the sword are one single entity, requires years and years of hard training. That's the key to it. Not untill computers are physically connected to our brains can we talk about technology being adapted to us, but at that time the question of who has adapted to who becomes a meaningless question.

:-)

RE: Modular Computing
ChiA @ 8/12/2007 8:29:29 AM # Q
Not sure if you noticed but it is a FICTIONAL story to illustrate HOW... blah blah blah

Well if your FICTIONAL story is to be BELIEVABLE or even CREDIBLE, then it should be REALISTIC in its portrayal, otherwise your story may as well be about how someone checks his email on his Treo with his Foleo whilst he travels from Mars back to Earth on his flying carpet. That is unless you're going for a comedic effect.

Anyway getting back to the point, I think your example is actually quite poor because it doesn't illustrate something that's different from Windows Mobile ActiveSync between a WinMob device and a laptop.

Reading through Palm's info they emphasise one touch access to emails (and their attachments) with the Foleo/Treo duo. I don't see any mention of synchronisation with other file types which makes the thing poorer than a true laptop/Treo duo. Yes, it can handle other files pics etc (no video though - again at a disadvantage to WinMob device) but unless it's attached to an email there doesn't appear to be any seamless intergration with the Treo or desktop.

So it appears your story is even more FICTIONAL than you realise.

RE: Modular Computing
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 8:50:50 AM # Q
> ...there doesn't appear to be any seamless integration with
> the Treo or desktop...

Up above I posted a comment that essentially reflected yours; apparently I was typing in mine while you were posting yours - no attempt to duplicate.

RE: Modular Computing
krosfyah @ 8/12/2007 9:34:21 AM # Q
[/quote]Well if your FICTIONAL story is to be BELIEVABLE or even CREDIBLE, then it should be REALISTIC in its portrayal, otherwise your story may as well be about how someone checks his email on his Treo with his Foleo whilst he travels from Mars back to Earth on his flying carpet. That is unless you're going for a comedic effect.[/quote]

Reading comprehensive is really difficult for folks around here.

The comment about being "fictional" was in response to somebody telling me I need to be concerned with my work/life balance.

The "true" part is the "vision" about the direction that the Folio represents. They went mainstream with the first widly used modular computing component with the Palm Pilot ...and it was a runaway success.

Now with the Folio, this is step #2. It seemlessly intregrates between your smart phone and the Folio in new ways we haven't seen before. The vision of "modular computing" is real. Why is it so difficult to visualize PC's/laptops/phones that perform automatic synchonization when they come within range of each other?

You guys have been beat into submission about seeing the way Microsoft wants you to see things. It's call innovation ...and Microsoft lacks it ...for nearly 10 years now. Try thinking outside the box.



RE: Modular Computing
SeldomVisitor @ 8/12/2007 9:51:59 AM # Q
> Try thinking outside the box...

Yeah, like this:

== "...So what I want is a large screen PDA with keyboard and
== tapscreen with a DETACHABLE Piggyback phone with a dinky
== screen and standard numeric buttons, etc. Maybe talking
== to each other via Bluetooth or whatever..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=219661&postcount=1

or this:

== "...As such, perhaps that "device" mentioned up there will be
== Coming Soon! (albeit maybe not so converged that it's piggybacked...)

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=338530&postcount=9

Giggle.

Meta Pad: IBM's Prototype Modular Computer
Gekko @ 8/12/2007 10:02:54 AM # Q
RE: Modular Computing
mikecane @ 8/12/2007 11:36:06 AM # Q
>>>manbag? nice.

Real men carry bags.

Eejits don't. Because they never heard of books, tech, and fekkin AC adapters...

RE: Modular Computing
mikecane @ 8/12/2007 11:37:24 AM # Q
>>>Reading comprehensive is really difficult for folks around here.

Christ, it's everywhere. Eejitcy is rampant.

RE: Modular Computing
krosfyah @ 8/12/2007 11:48:07 AM # Q
There you go Seldom Visitor and Gekko. THAT is the kind of thinking I'm talking about.

Let's break the mold of Microsoft's status quo world. Lets get back to the good old days where innovation occurs. Microsoft's vision is annimated icons with new colors.

I give Palm credit for trying to innovate. I agree that the Folio, in terms of innovation, is not enough to get anybody excited.

But if you look at what Palm is trying to do, they are taking a risk and trying to make a device that works in new ways. Yes, you can buy a laptop. But you are missing the point if you keep comparing this to a traditional laptop.

It's not about specifications and simple "capabilities." Its more about doing something BETTER than a standard Microsoft OS.

For me, "Instance On", small size, and seemless connectivity is something that NO Microsoft product can do. Not ONE. Not a single Microsoft product. I've got a small Acer TravelMate C110 which has a 10" screen (that I'm happy with but it's about to die). 2 years ago, I spent $1,400 on it.

The Acer's specs look the same as the Folio for how I use the Acer. (remember, I've got a desktop and work provided laptop that I use for other things.

1. It has wiresless connectivity.
2. I've connecte to my cell phone via bluetooth
3. I can check email (albeit independently of my phone - I can set it up so I can quasi see the same thing as my phone but I only know how to do that because I'm an IT professional. The average person has no chance of this)
4. I can browse the web (after a lenghthy bootup)
5. Costs $1,400 new (but isn't available anymore)
6. Battery currently lasts about 2 hours when new (because this is a small compact unit, battery life suffers.) I can get better batteries but the laptop then weight A LOT more.

If the Acer wasn't about to die, I'd be content with it.

The Folio in comparison:
1. Also has wireless (that I hope works better than Windows)
2. Seemlessly communicates with the Treo rather than doing a manual config and manually "connecting"
3. Checks email seemlessly. What I see on the phone is the same as the Folio.
4. Browsing the internet virtually instantly via wifi or GPRS.
5. Costs less than half the price
6. Battery lasts 2-3 times more without sacrificing size/weight.

It isn't that Folio doesn't do similar things to a laptop ...it's that it does things MUCH better than a laptop ...at least at the things that it does. For me, those things are important. If mobility, ease of use and connectivity is not your most important requirements, then the Folio isn't for you. For me, I highly value those three attributes and no Windows machines come close.

DISCLAIMER: The Folio has to work as advertised. If it doesn't, disregard everything I said. ;)

RE: Modular Computing
ChiA @ 8/12/2007 1:48:06 PM # Q
krosfyah said
Reading comprehensive is really difficult for folks around here.

Yes, especially with you and your folks.

The comment about being "fictional" was in response to somebody telling me I need to be concerned with my work/life balance.

My comment was stating that the person in your scenario sounded like someone struggling and not you personally.

Anyway back to the relevant arguments.

I'll go as far as to say that Palm coming out with the Foleo is a tacit admission that it's run out of ideas of how it can innovate the smartphone itself. Other companies are now routinely putting and adding features to their phones which Palm lacks. Other companies have been looking at novel interfaces whilst Palm crawls along with its dated Palm OS and somebody else's Windows Mobile.

Yes, the Foleo is a very small first step towards a nice concept but I don't think this Foleo is the product to advance it.

I think the fundamental point is that it's the software and not any special hardware within the Foleo which provides this seamless email connectivity with the smartphone. Therefore it will be relatively trivial to add such functionality to existing computers or competing mobile companions.

Palm hasn't had a good track record in promptly meeting the challenge of competition, if it did then the "Palmpilots" and Treos would have been the devices for mobile email in popular culture and not RIM's Blackberrys.

RE: Modular Computing
Hazniet @ 8/13/2007 6:38:35 PM # Q
Gekko,

That is exactly what I want! This is what the lifedrive should've turned into before they scrapped the whole idea and went with a conforming laptop design.

I could see IBM's design connecting via wireless to all the peripherals.

________________________________________
If you feel like you're under control, you're just not going fast enough.

Reply to this comment

What 2008 will bring

mikecane @ 8/12/2007 12:04:37 PM # Q
http://tinyurl.com/2a9kxt

Bound to be at least 2x the price of the Flopeo... but all that power!

RE: What 2008 will bring
mikecane @ 8/12/2007 12:05:45 PM # Q
Sorry! Wrong link! This one:

http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl

RE: What 2008 will bring
krosfyah @ 8/12/2007 1:57:16 PM # Q
That looks like a sweet device. It's exactly what my wife is after ...something that'll fit in her purse.

1. It's still Windows so you got to boot it up and enjoy occasional crashes.
2. It better by at least 1024x768 or it's still a useless web browser.

Why can't somebody make a laptop that "syncs" with your desktop similar to the way a PDA sync's with your desktop? Palm's Folio is the first such device that even attempts it ...albeit limited. But I'm sure Palm is thinking about ways to extend that functionality in future versions.

RE: What 2008 will bring
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 9:55:10 PM # Q
Ooooo! Another thumb board! Just what I wanted!! ...

Reply to this comment

Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either

drbuzz0 @ 8/12/2007 9:37:28 PM # Q
Doesn't palm know that the whole "kinda like a pc but simpler and lacking a full blown OS" thing has been done to death?

Basically what we have is something the size and cost of a PC that only does what a crappy PDA can. It's just as big as most laptops, but does somethings a laptop can and much less.

And what do you get in return? It boots a bit faster, I guess?


Plam, learn from the WebTV, the Audry and all the other attempts to make some kind of pc-ish applience. People don't go for it.


Generally speaking, the trend is to move more PC-like functions into the small convient package of a PDA. It doesn't work the other way. Trying to make a full-sized device that does only what a PDA can is the WRONG DIRECTION.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
dkirker @ 8/12/2007 10:04:24 PM # Q
:/

What is wrong with ignoring the status quo? That is where innovation comes from. And before I get a "HOW THE **** IS THE FOLEO INNOVATIVE??!!," think about it. You cannot go from nothing to everything in one step. One must make baby steps (and don't take "baby steps" to mean adding a new feature every two years, that is a nano step) to greatness. Foleo seems to be the first step.

Who said the Foleo was a "Laptop Sized PDA"? Have you even read about the "deep down under" features of the Foleo.

You are equating simple with PDA and complex (or big and clunky) with laptop or "power" (you can thank M$ for this one). Just because something is simple does not mean that it cannot be powerful. And, lower processor speeds do not mean less power as well. Bonehead programmers mean less power.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
krosfyah @ 8/13/2007 3:14:19 AM # Q
Plam, learn from the WebTV, the Audry and all the other attempts to make some kind of pc-ish applience. People don't go for it.

The difference between WebTV and Audry is that the Internet has now fully come of age and always-on internet is now basically available 100% of the time. It's for this very reason why the iPhone was launched, afterall.

Personally, I want a small, light-weight, decent battery life, full sized screen, internet device with fast, reliable access to the internet.

I'm tired of waiting 60-240 seconds to come out of standby only to fart around for another 5 minutes picking up an Inet connection. But you can continue to live in your Microsoft brainwashed world continuing to pound your desktop experience into the mobile world.


RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
Valhala @ 8/13/2007 6:05:59 AM # Q
If your watching the stock market, and the housing collaped and note that consumers are already overwhelmed with a variety of devices, everything, from dumbphones, ipod's gps devices, PMP players, notebooks, bluetooth, WiFi, tivos, the list goes on and one.
My point is: People are going to have less money and unless the device has a "wow" factor are going to be unimpressed by foleo. I have been a early adopter and gadget freak all my life. the foleo has left me very underwhelmed and not very interested.
I think it will even be worse then the Blue-ray HD-dvd, which has so far shown to have a huge lack of interst with consumers. Why is that, lotsa of HD TV sold? Well to most people don't see the need to invest $500 for just a small increment in picture quality and are pretty happy with what they got.
Palm's only chance with this bastard child is if it had given it some wow factor to start off in life.....it basically looks like a plain vanilla notebook nothing special, 5 or 6 apps, most not compatible with windows or OSX.
Another similar example to this is the Segway to which some thought it would radically change transportation as we know it. This device came out 2 years ago and I have never seen an actual segway in use.
I predict the Foleo will fail and at best maybe given away to Iraq army or police, so they can have the kind of computers that US soldiers have.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
krosfyah @ 8/13/2007 10:16:48 PM # Q
I can't disagree that the Folio lacks "wow". ...and I think Palm realizes that because they are working hard to update it even before the release. Already, some of the naysayers are backing off their initial objections with the announcement of new software.

The thing about Palm and Folio, is that this device will be extremely expandable with software. Think Treo vs. iPhone. Treo - expandable. iPhone - not.

Regardless of all of that, I'm in the minority in wanting a fullsize, yet small device that gets me quickly on the web. That's all I need when I'm on the run.

If I want a fullsize Microsoft brainwashed experience, I can get that at home when I've got time to burn farting around with idiosyncrasies. I don't have the time or patiences to screw around with Windows when I'm on the go. But that's just me.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
ChiA @ 8/14/2007 1:30:38 AM # Q
krosfyah said
Microsoft brainwashed world
.
fullsize Microsoft brainwashed experience
etc etc etc

It seems you're revealing your own dogma. This bashing people over the head for using Microsoft is getting a touch tiresome and won't win people over to a Palm Foleo.

There are plenty of other non Microsoft desktop and smartphone solutions out there if people are tired of them. I for one have the three major systems, Windows, OS X and Linux, each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

For the record my experience is that Windows laptops do get out of suspend a lot faster than the 60 seconds you claim. Apple's Powerbook laptops were pretty much instantly out of sleep. If you were running your browser before sleep then you can get back to browsing within a second. I haven't tried it with the Intel Macbooks but I imagine it's pretty much the same.

I said in an earlier post that it's the software synchronization and not the hardware that makes the Foleo special. Other companies have made hardware similar to the Foleo in the past - remember the Psion netbook/Series 7? If the instant phone syncing idea catches on then it's only a matter of time before other competitors either add the functionality to existing computers or produce cheaper/better versions of the Foleo.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
Valhala @ 8/14/2007 6:10:31 AM # Q
There does seem to be several people here somewhat receptive to plunking down $600 for this thing, and are will to put one handbag and carry around, the handbag could double duty as overnite bag, and someplace to store your VGA adaper, usb and powercords. Kinda handy. How many of your average consumers out there will find a need to cary another gadget with them, on top of their treo and Ipod, and maybe find room for a gps for those sales trips. Do you think it would fit in some cargo shorts?
On the plus side the treo is so nondescript that you will not have people craning nextto see what this little foleo is.but if they did you could say it's not a laptop nor is a cellphone. think of it like haveing a 3rd arm, great for checking your email.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
mikecane @ 8/14/2007 11:11:56 AM # Q
>>>How many of your average consumers out there will find a need to cary another gadget with them, on top of their treo and Ipod,

Wow. Just yesterday on the subway I saw a woman with a Treo. But when it came time to listen to music, she pulled out the (now-discontinued) iPod Mini (mono screen)! So much for all the people who are concerned about "carrying one gadget instead of two."

People apparently are willing to carry two.

Probably more.

RE: Not a laptop nor a pda - worse than either
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2007 11:55:13 AM # Q
> ...think of it like having a 3rd arm...

In the US that means you're from Mars:

-- http://tinyurl.com/2vcw45

or are having your "third arm" inspected ala military medical:

-- http://tinyurl.com/36zsp6

Giggle.


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