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Comments on: Palm Announces New Foleo PIM Software and Games

Palm Foleo SolitiarePalm today announced three new third party applications for the Palm Foleo when it ships later this summer. MotionApps has announced its mDayscape Personal Information Manager, which will provide a sync-able calendar, tasks and contacts application.

Astraware has also announced the first two games for Palm's new Foleo mobile companion -- Astraware Sudoku and Solitaire and promised that additional titles will follow.

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Very nice, but....

Gazpacho @ 6/18/2007 6:36:09 PM # Q
... shouldn't some PIM-apps have been included with the Foleo in the first place?

I mean, it's nice to see 3rd party apps trickling in, but can you imagine having to purchase the standard PIM-apps on your Treo? Not even Datebk or Agendus, but just the standard apps!

The Foleo doesn't include PIM-apps at all, so consumers are forced to buy software like this mDayscape.

I don't think Palm will create a lot of goodwill with this.

http://foleocentral.blogspot.com

FoleoCentral: the complete source for every news article ever written about the Palm Foleo

RE: Very nice, but....
cervezas @ 6/18/2007 7:19:58 PM # Q
We don't really know what software the Foleo will include because the product is still in development. Could very well be that Palm will license mDayscape or some other PIM applications.

Either way, if you want to focus attention on the lead solution (email), keep things simple, reduce cost, and attract developers to a new platform (all of which are critical for Foleo's success) it's actually a good thing to leave it to 3rd parties to create most of the applications. I've been thinking that Palm really needed to ship the Foleo with PIM apps included, but I'm starting to question that a little bit. The fact that there are so many different PIM apps and suites for Palm OS is a clue that it might not be enough of a "one-size-fits-all" application that it should be baked into ROM. I know the basic PIM apps don't quite meet my personal needs, so I'm a bit ambivalent as to whether they should be foisted on everyone else who buys a Foleo. But maybe that's a power-user viewpoint.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Very nice, but....
neuron @ 6/18/2007 7:26:46 PM # Q
That's not true. Did you see the poll that how many people are using the builtin PIM and how many are using third parties? 84% votes for the builtin PIM.

RE: Very nice, but....
British Guy @ 6/18/2007 7:29:20 PM # Q
Very Nice? This is excellent news. Although I was surprised Palm Desktop does not ship with Foleo.

Once SplashData get a few apps on Foleo then I will buy one.

Since Foleo announcement I have looked at what I really use my laptop for and have decide it spends alot of time starting/closing, warming my knees, being charged up, the valuable time is: using Palm PIM, Splash Money, SplashID, WeaterMAnager, Email, Internet and minor Office docs work. Foleo will meet all my needs if a few more 3rd parties make the leap. If it will back-up my Palm too then I will start taking offers on one used Panasonic Toughbook :)

Time will tell....

BG
_______________________________
From the other side of the water

RE: Very nice, but....
Gekko @ 6/18/2007 7:32:55 PM # Q

have fun with Docs To Go screwing up your Word and Excel files.

I'm No Fooleo.



RE: Very nice, but....
palmato @ 6/18/2007 7:36:11 PM # Q
No memos. Enough said.

Moreover at 600$ (because that's the real price) the cost cutting point somehow escapes me.

--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: Very nice, but....
cervezas @ 6/18/2007 7:43:05 PM # Q
Did you see the poll that how many people are using the builtin PIM and how many are using third parties? 84% votes for the built-in PIM.

Cool info. So that probably was the power-user in me talking (a very bad guide for product development!). Where was that poll done, BTW?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Very nice, but....
Gekko @ 6/18/2007 8:09:06 PM # Q

i use/prefer the built-in PIM but then again i'm a minimalist. it's simple, clean, and effective. however, i do like outlook on the desktop but not necessarily because of its power or complexity but because of its tight integration with PIM and email and unified solution. i prefer to KISS whenever i can and i don't want to manage multiple devices and PIM apps. most businesspeople do not want to manage/charge/sync/fight/fumble with multiple devices.


RE: Very nice, but....
TreoAnon @ 6/19/2007 2:58:10 AM # Q
Will this will shut down some of the Foleo-whiners who complained about its lack of PIM applications, or will they now just switch to whining about having to pay $25?

RE: Very nice, but....
dukat @ 6/19/2007 7:10:17 AM # Q
Cervezas,

you may argue that it gives more choices to users if PIM is provided by a 3rd party (and I don't agree with you ...) but the key question is not the application but the data format!

You can use Palm PIM, Agendus, Datebk or something else, they are basically all compatible because they use the same data format (with some tweaks). So, if you don't define the standard format, every 3rd party app will have a different format, leaving them all incompatible to each other. I wouldn't call that freedom of choice (well, maybe, but not freedom of switch ...).



IIIe -> m505 -> T3 -> Treo650 -> Treo680

RE: Very nice, but....
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 8:36:59 AM # Q
I agree completely. If you're going to write PIM apps that run on Foleo that sync with the Treo, you will, of course, need to use a compatible data format. Doesn't mean it has to be identical (the Foleo could extend it with additional fields that don't necessarily get synched to the Treo). But you would at least want to include all the basic fields on the Treo otherwise users would be disappointed. In other words, the "standard data format" is already defined by the Treo itself.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Very nice, but....
Puppy @ 6/19/2007 9:54:37 AM # Q
I completely agree too. While it's nice there's some third party development, it's absolutely nuts that the PIM stuff isn't built-in to the Folio. You should be able to use it as a PDA out of the box if you want to. I actually considered that until I found out it didn't actually ship with useful software.

A $500 Dell laptop would be the same price...and could use Palm Desktop (in addition to a full OS)!

Adevice from PALM with no built-Surely you jest.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/19/2007 11:03:40 AM # Q
... shouldn't some PIM-apps have been included with the Foleo in the first place?

I mean, it's nice to see 3rd party apps trickling in, but can you imagine having to purchase the standard PIM-apps on your Treo? Not even Datebk or Agendus, but just the standard apps!

The Foleo doesn't include PIM-apps at all, so consumers are forced to buy software like this mDayscape.

I don't think Palm will create a lot of goodwill with this.

Unbelievable. If Palm ran out of time/decided to not code PIM apps for the FOOLeo, they might as well throw in the towel now. So this device is supposed to cost $600 + price of all the missing apps? Wow.

Is the battery included? How about a latch for the cover? (Wait a minute, Hawkins said there is NO latch!) How about a software clock?

RE: Very nice, but....
theseus @ 6/19/2007 2:36:05 PM # Q
All this talk about data format... For me personally, I see the LACK of a data format as an advantage. Why? Because it's the CONDUIT that makes the difference, anyway...

I've been "stuck" in a corporate environment that uses GroupWise -- which I'm not against, but it has proven more than difficult to provide a good, reliable sync of information between the Palm OS PDA's/devices and GroupWise. Yes, there's a few conduits that claim to sync to GroupWise, but each has its own foibles. The vast majority do NOT sync to GroupWise with any kind of reliability. Or you can get full GroupWise syncing by using 3rd-party apps -- but then you give up the ability to sync to the built-in PIM apps. SO: use the built-ins and get questionable reliability or use a 3rd-party app and lose the ability to sync with the built-in (and/or use a more powerful PIM app like DateBk).

DateBk is a highly used app on my device, but it uses the built-in database. What I want is a CONDUIT that is reliable to sync between the two (the built-in database and GroupWise). I don't particularly care if there's a true "DateBk-desktop" or not; I just want to be able to sync the basic information from one to the other. I use my handheld more than GroupWise, anyway -- but that only works for me; others need to see when I have appointments that I've added directly on the PDA. And I need to know if someone's tried to schedule an appointment with me in GroupWise.

The built-in Palm OS database already has a data format -- that most everyone is using. Why do we need YET ANOTHER data format for the Folio? Why can't we INSTEAD focus on getting a good conduit between the built-in database and whatever other PIM you want to use? Let the Folio be the go-between for the data if some kind of conversion needs to take place... Just give me a good conduit.

-e

RE: Very nice, but....not free
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 3:47:24 PM # Q
According to THIS:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1289370&postcount=36

TreoCentral poster PALM Investor Relations said the applications mentioned here are extra-cost items.

RE: Very nice, but....
hkklife @ 6/19/2007 4:29:12 PM # Q
SO let's see....I can buy a nice $500 Dell dual-core laptop w/ DVD drive & Vista plus an $80 Z22 with PIM functions built-in. Or I can buy a neutered Foleo for approximately the same amount. Hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Very nice, but....
Gekko @ 6/19/2007 8:56:40 PM # Q
>SO let's see....I can buy a nice $500 Dell dual-core laptop w/ DVD drive & Vista plus an $80 Z22 with PIM functions built-in. Or I can buy a neutered Foleo for approximately the same amount. Hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

Mrs. Beersie wants the Fooleo.

Reply to this comment

What is the real price?

feranick @ 6/18/2007 8:22:03 PM # Q
What is the real price going to be? You either will buy the Foleo with no apps and ending buying third party products for basic application, or Palm will license all these apps, as they are basically doing now with the PDA/Treos.

This will mean that updates and upgrades of those apps are most likely not to come from Palm. So the Foleo will get old pretty quickly, as it happened with some PDAs, which applications became old and unsupported after some time.

I hope this won't happen. I actually hope that lots of the developers Palm is targeting, will be FOSS (free open source software) developers. I am not really a fan of the bundling of third party apps that Palm is currently using. At least with FOSS apps, you can hope you will get quality software with the garantee of getting updates too.

Reply to this comment

You Go Palm!

PacManFoo @ 6/18/2007 8:29:33 PM # Q
Don't forget that on/off button, it's revolutionary, it's going to change the way computing is done for the next century. Hopefully Palm can utilize this miraculous technology to the fullest before everyone else comes out with devices so complex. Who needs third party software. As long as you can view email, this little puppy will sell billions of units. I just hope Palm is ready for the on slot of orders this will produce the day it goes for sale. I think however that Palm needs to market this more as the Pooper. It's the perfect bathroom companion.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: You Go Palm!
Gekko @ 6/18/2007 8:32:32 PM # Q
>Don't forget that on/off button, it's revolutionary, it's going to change the way computing is done for the next century.


good stuff. if i hear about that damn on/off button one more time i'm going to puke.



RE: You Go Palm!
VampireLestat @ 6/18/2007 8:48:26 PM # Q
hahahahaha I love your posts.

RE: You Go Palm!
joad @ 6/18/2007 8:51:41 PM # Q
but........it.......... has........... *EMAIL*!!!!

Killer app!!!!! Bet the farm on it, Palm. And don't worry about fixing the 700p firmware or any minor petty stuff like that (just make them buy the 755 if they want Bluetooth to work) - the Fooleo will revolutionize the earth.

RE: You Go Palm!
VampireLestat @ 6/18/2007 8:54:56 PM # Q
The email thing is not going to be the killer app for me. It will be one of many things.

Speaking of email...

I use my Hotmail account and they have ads and stuff they force on us. So Hotmail Foleo-Treo sync is not possible huh? How about gmail? Does the Foleo require POP/IMAP/HTTP?

I suppose I could always upgrade my Hotmail account and start paying for it, I think they allow pop or something like that if you pay Microsoft.

Any ideas?

RE: You Go Palm!
LiveFaith @ 6/19/2007 12:41:10 AM # Q
** if i hear about that d*** on/off button one more time i'm going to puke. **

Hey Lizard Boy. Cheers ...

http://tinyurl.com/yuofqa

Pat Horne

RE: You Go Palm!
awawa212 @ 6/19/2007 4:30:19 AM # Q
Hotmail POP access? Go with FreePOPs: http://www.freepops.org/en/

It lets you access a wide variety of free email services through your desktop email client. But it's not for Palm OS; however, it might (be made to) work with the Foleo OS.

Speaking of which, the new Linux OS needs to appear in proper PDAs, today, so those who need/want Unicode can partake of its wonders.

RE: You Go Palm!
dukat @ 6/19/2007 7:16:47 AM # Q
Hey Vampire,

As much as I loathe the Fooleo, don't come with that Hotmail stuff. You can't combine two misconcepted ideas and complain that they don't work together.

IIIe -> m505 -> T3 -> Treo650 -> Treo680

RE: You Go Palm!
PacManFoo @ 6/19/2007 8:41:15 AM # Q
Palm are the masters at having things work seamlessly just see exhibit a: http://bdball.googlepages.com/pscreen.bmp

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
RE: You Go Palm!
LiveFaith @ 6/20/2007 12:45:09 AM # Q
My lawd, somebody convert that bitmap!

Pat Horne
Reply to this comment

don't worry about the apps!

zuhmir @ 6/18/2007 8:30:27 PM # Q
it's linux based! this means that there will be endless amount of open-source programs easily compiled to work on foleo! you will get every third party program you need for free.

RE: don't worry about the apps!
feranick @ 6/18/2007 9:02:21 PM # Q
Does it support GTK, QT or any other? If not, there is no way you can import FOSS programs in the Foleo, even if it runs the Linux kernel.

RE: don't worry about the apps!
cervezas @ 6/18/2007 9:59:02 PM # Q
My bet: Palm has focused on getting the snappiest performance rather than compatibility with X Windows-based Linux toolkits. That would mean porting Linux apps won't be trivial. Frankly, the commercial developers who really put the time into making and supporting great applications aren't necessarily thrilled about platforms like Maemo that have lots of free apps that don't work very well or offer good customer support. Not to diss the Linux community, but I haven't been all that impressed with the quality or quantity of free software available for the Nokia Internet Tablets. I think and SDK that is easier for Palm developers to sink their teeth into might be the best option for Palm.

Ben Combee has said they're interested in having good Java support, which is very good news for getting a broader developer community.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: don't worry about the apps!
mikecane @ 6/19/2007 9:33:51 AM # Q
>>>it's linux based! this means that there will be endless amount of open-source programs easily compiled to work on foleo! you will get every third party program you need for free.

ROTFLMAO.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

The same bloody thing was said for the Nokia Anti-Net Tabs. Have you looked to see how much REAL WORKING stuff has been ported to THOSE?

Anyway, at least THIS thing will have a REAL PIM app. I just hope it damn well WORKS.

Not that I'm buying one. Forget that!

RE: don't worry about the apps!
zuhmir @ 6/19/2007 9:56:02 AM # Q
who cares about what happened to nokia... this is palm we are talking about! just look at what we have so far:

* VNC for palm let's you work on your home computer from anywhere in the world - using the palm as terminal

* palmmame and little john lets you play all snes, sega... games ever created on the palm

* ScummVM lets you play DOS games (all the best quests ever wrriten for DOS)

all that was programed for palm os which was far more complicated to program for simply because it was brand new operating system which required brand new programing skills! unlike the new OS which is intended to be as easy and as familiar as possible to existing developers.

All you really need is a good solid Terminal for your home computer! this is the perfect device for the job! let the massive CPU at home do the hard work for you and use the Foleo as a portable terminal.



RE: don't worry about the apps!
mikecane @ 6/19/2007 11:26:08 AM # Q
Oh wow. Just what I wanted -- games, games, and remotely wanking my home PC?

Do you people do any effing WORK?!

RE: don't worry about the apps!
zuhmir @ 6/19/2007 1:55:54 PM # Q
giving that you simply can't take the full power of a home computer on the road,
it is most wise to take the cheapest, lightest, fastest device you can buy that allows you to remotely work on a real computer!
otherwise you make compromises! there's all the trade-offs:

weight-price
performance-price
weight-performance

with a remote terminal you actually get it all! a light, cheep device with the abilities of a home dual or quad core computer!

Reply to this comment

Software annoucements already?

VampireLestat @ 6/18/2007 8:46:57 PM # Q
Woohoo!

- mDayscape looks useful.
- Glad to see Palm juggernaut Astraware is getting in on the game early.


To British Guy,
Palm Desktop ships with the Treo.
The Treo and the Foleo auto-sync.

I think your concern is that you can't buy a Foleo and use it without a Treo. The Foleo is designed to be a complement to a Treo.

hmm...
Guys, if someone doesnt have a Treo, can they use a Foleo? Im a bit confused here. Couldnt they save things to the CF card or send data back over wifi back onto a home PC via RemoteDesktop?
I just ordered a TReo 680 so I personally won't have that concern, but not everyone may want to buy a new cell phone or can afford both a Foleo and a phone just yet. Can they get started with only a Foleo?


RE: Software annoucements already?
VampireLestat @ 6/18/2007 8:52:29 PM # Q
Does anyone know if you are playing a game on the Foleo and you put it on hold because you have to leave your home, will you be able to resume playback on the Treo? Is that possible if the programs are made right? Will it clone not only data but also software and playback?

RE: Software annoucements already?
Infernogoddess @ 6/18/2007 9:37:56 PM # Q
It will be usable without the Treo. The only big issue if you follow the webcast is that there is no true hard drive so it relies on the phone for certain settings that can not be saved in a flash memory, that is easily fixed by the dedicated CF slot.

RE: Software annoucements already?
VampireLestat @ 6/19/2007 12:09:15 AM # Q
OK that is interesting. Thanks for the info.

Personally, I most definitely plan on adding a CF card even though I will be using a Treo 680.



RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 6:15:32 AM # Q
> ...The Treo and the Foleo auto-sync....

Wow!

That sounds SO COOL!

But...ya wanna know sumthin'?

It's SO WRONG, too!

Only that data which has been programmed around correctly will auto-sync.

From all appearances, there is an email program that has been implemented to do this, correctly or not, with special software running on both the Treo and Fooleo. There has been one further recent PR-fluff saying m-something software will be coming Real Soon Now that also has specially been programmed - one assumes something on the TREO also has been specially programmed - the PR-fluff, BTW, does NOT mention bidirectional data syncing so it's not clear up-front whether or not that is doable even with the special software implementation.

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 9:00:22 AM # Q
the PR-fluff, BTW, does NOT mention bidirectional data syncing so it's not clear up-front whether or not that is doable even with the special software implementation.

They said it was bidirectional during the D5 conference. But keep trying to make stuff up, SV... eventually something's got to stick to the wall. :-p

Vampire, here's my understanding: The applications on the phone and the applications on the device are separate--two different binaries running in two different processors. They also have separate data stored in their own Flash memory. The data is synchronized between the two platforms, assuming the developer has written the code to do this using APIs that Palm is providing.

My guess (only a wild guess) is that sync works via OBEX protocol, similar to what is used for beaming stuff between two Palms. Since the built-in PIM apps already have beaming of their particular data types supported (contacts, appointments, etc.) the Foleo companion apps can use the data exchange code already in those applications to sync them. I don't know if Astraware's games are designed to sync their game state between the Foleo and Treo, but there is no reason I can see that they couldn't. But both the Foleo and phone application would need to include some code to handle this--even if I'm wrong about Palm piggybacking off the beaming protocol, I'm fairly sure about this.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 9:13:05 AM # Q
Wrong - they said the EMAIL syncing was bidirectional - that post you responded to was about the m-whatever application.

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 9:26:34 AM # Q
I thought you were talking about the capability of the sync API. But you're mistaken in any case. From the mDayscape page on MotionApps site:
Sync with your phone - push the button and all your calendar events, contacts and tasks will be synchronized with your smartphone via Bluetooth. Things that you add on Foleo will become available on your phone and information that you enter on your phone will appear on Foleo. No configuration, no set up.

Any other lame FUD you've dreamed up to share with us?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 9:28:03 AM # Q
I just checked - the PR-fluff for the m-etc stuff does not mention bidirectional syncing however if one follows the link to the developer's web site it DOES mention manual bidirectional syncing for what it manipulates.

Note - if one wants to take the web site literally - and that's my usual MO - it says "things you add on the Foleo" are synced and "information you enter on your TREO" is synced when you manually invoke the sync. It doesn't say "things you edit on the Foleo".

Nit picky? Perhaps, but edited material is sufficiently more complex than merely added material that, unless someone says "Tada!" I look at the words with the jaded view first.

RE: Software annoucements already?
mikecane @ 6/19/2007 9:35:49 AM # Q
My one question: Everyone talks about syncing with the damn Treo Treo Treo. Doesn't it use BT -- so why couldn't it work ith any other BT-enabled Palm, like a TX or LifeDrive or even T2?

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 9:36:16 AM # Q
Please note I was writing my response before yours showed up (simultaneous).

It's not FUD, fanboy, it's discussion on what the Fooleo REALLY can do and what Fanboys and Marketing Types want us to THINK it can do. I like discussing what's there, not what's imagined.

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 9:51:46 AM # Q
No. Here's how sync works on mobile devices, whether it is Palm OS, Windows Mobile, SyncML, you name it, the principles are the same. Every appointment/contact/todo/[your object here] is a database record. The database record has a field that indicates whether the record has been modified since the last sync (modified includes "newly created"). When the synchronization commences it iterates through all the database records looking for ones that have been flagged as modified on device A. When it finds one it checks the corresponding record (if there is one) on device B just to be sure it hasn't also been modified (rare) and then copies the latest and greatest version over.

There's nothing special about "editing" versus "creating" information in any sync protocol I'm aware of. That's just something you made up, hoping no one would call you on it.

Try again.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 9:54:30 AM # Q
Well, gee, that's nice!

So, are you saying "Tada!"?

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 10:24:53 AM # Q
Lest it get lost in the noise, please note, too, that my original response to the gush by V-whomever discussed AUTO-syncing, something that AFAWK, only the aforementioned email program does - the applications of THIS article require MANUAL syncing and it is not clear if that manual sync requires the items in question to have been saved or will enforce a save prior to occurring (that is, adding a line to a list doesn't casue and autosync and pushing the "sync" button doesn't necessarily sync up unsaved-but-made additions.


RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 10:28:44 AM # Q
Tada?

No. I think you should go back and read what I wrote.

But now that you've trotted out the "fanboy" word you've made it clear that you're the one who is tired of dealing with facts. (Guess it's hard when you can't find any to support your position.) I'm surprised you didn't mention that the "PR Fluff" said nothing about whether the synchronization randomly changes the dates of your appointments or not. Since they don't specify this you just never know. Let's not leave anything up to the imagination shall we?


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 10:31:25 AM # Q
Excuse me for responding in kind to your "You are trying instill Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt" comment.

Giggle.

You are a tool.

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 10:38:40 AM # Q
I don't even know what "auto sync" means. Is this some term that Palm has used? I've heard the term "continuous synchronization" used as distinguished from a user-initiated sync, but I don't think any of us really know what that means yet. Is it like ActiveSync? Is it something that happens when you click a Save button? *Is* there a save button in a Foleo application? Does "continuous" just mean the Foleo runs a sync session periodically in the background? These are the real questions, not the silly ones SV is concocting.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 10:41:21 AM # Q
Gack!

Hellooooo...are we reading the same Marketing Crap from Palm about the Fooleo?

Or for THAT matter, are we reading the same message up there from V-etc where he mentions auto-syncing?

Or are you just being a fanboy jerk?

Nevermind!

I've got the answer!

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 10:54:09 AM # Q
So I'm a fanboy and a tool. And to complete your "discussion of what's there" we have: "Giggle." Do you think people don't know the difference between reasoned discussion and ad hominem attacks?

Calling your previous posts FUD is not a personal attack, it's pointing out that you were operating in the realm of "what if" instead of talking about facts that we can all look at. Worse, you're stating technical judgments about the complexity of certain aspects of synchronization as if they were fact when they are pure invention and verifiably wrong. And when called on this you shift the argument to the personality of the one who pointed out your error.

Those are the facts about this "discussion." I won't insult the readers' intelligence by drawing the conclusions for them.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 11:04:42 AM # Q
Giggle.

--------------

Hey!

What IS "auto-sync" anyway?

We haven't a clue!

Right?

Right?

Right?

Er....right?

Giggle.

==========

So, to get this BACK ON TRACK to my ORIGINAL response WAY up there...:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9471/#133940

WRONG!

The Fooleo auto-syncs only what has been programmed specially to auto-sync both on the Fooleo and on the smartphone (TREO-only so far). As far as we know, this applies to email only so far with some unmentioned-I-think email program. It specifically DOES NOT APPLY to the m-whatever applications mentioned in the article this thread is a commentary to - those require MANUAL syncing (at the moment of the release of the PR-fluff about them - things can change, I guess!).

And, as noted more than once already RIGHT here on this web site way prior to the release of said PR-fluff, IMHO the implementation of "auto-syncing" will require NEW APPLICATION INSTANCES for all applications that one wants - that is, ALL of your existing smartphone applications are BROKEN w.r.t. autopmatic synchronization.

BTW - have ya checked out the Asus?

Just a small matter of programming to make IT "auto-sunc", too!

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 11:22:38 AM # Q
SeldomVisitor wrote:
Hellooooo...are we reading the same Marketing Crap from Palm about the Fooleo?

Or for THAT matter, are we reading the same message up there from V-etc where he mentions auto-syncing?

Or are you just being a fanboy jerk?

Sigh.

Ok, here's all Palm had to say about "automatic" synchronization in the press release about mDayscape:

"Using MotionApps' Quick Add feature, a user can add a new calendar event in seconds, and the event will be mirrored automatically on the user's smartphone.

No one except the OP has said anything about Foleo just magically (with no coding by the application developer) synchronizing every piece of data with the smartphone. In my first post on this thread (as well as yours) we disabused him of this notion and the subject was dropped. (Except for your insightful "Tada" comment, which I think most of us took to just be you playing dumb.) The part of the conversation you're trying to divert attention from now is the part where you were inventing imaginary limitations of the synchronization that were either explicitly falsified on the MotionApps web site or by the facts of how synchronization is actually accomplished in the real world.

I realize you're trying to save face, but while your methods for doing so may have worked on the elementary school playground, they probably don't play so well with adult readers. (Lucky for you there don't seem to be that many of them here on PIC!)

How about you end this now before you dig yourself any deeper and waste more of everyone's time? Some of us would probably like to get on to discussing real questions and plausible problems with how synchronization works between Foleo and a smartphone.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
mikecane @ 6/19/2007 11:29:06 AM # Q
Stop wasting your time on that eejit and his fekkin giggle (which I've noticed showing up elsewhere under a different screen name) and answer MY question, goddammit.

RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 11:32:43 AM # Q
The giggle is contagious - used Net-Wide! But usually now (!!!) not by me.

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 11:50:08 AM # Q
have ya checked out the Asus?

Yeah. Some definite competition for Palm. 15 second boot time is a huge improvement over Windows, but still a long time to wait if you're in a meeting and someone started saying something you want to capture. I do think that at 7" it's too small to satisfy the ergonomic and style requirements of the market that Palm is going after. Reducing the size of a keyboard by a third makes a big difference for comfortable typing and if you use it in a meeting or in class you're going to look like a circus clown riding a unicycle with a 7" wheel.

But dang... $200! They'll find some users who will jump all over that!

My biggest concern for Foleo's prospects is how it's going to differentiate itself clearly from competitors like this. It's a problem if they're great products, and it's also a problem if they suck because then people fail to "get" the whole concept. Even if Palm nails Foleo right out of the gate (and you can be sure it will have its problems) there's going to be a lot of noise and fog for their marketing people to penetrate and I wonder if they'll be able to do it.

I love the concept and the vision behind it. But the whole marketing thing... that's going to be tough.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 12:03:37 PM # Q
Mike, I can't think of any reason *in principle* why Foleo wouldn't sync with Palm PDAs. The OS is the same. The applications are, in relevant respects, the same. Of course *in principle* and *in fact* have been known to be two different things.

One place you could look for potential problems: does Bluetooth sync between your PDA and the desktop work ok? Does "beaming" data between your PDA and another over Bluetooth work ok in apps that support that? If the answer is "no" to either of those you might guess you could run into trouble with Foleo sync. If the answer is "yes" to both, well, the best I can say is maybe you're in luck.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
hkklife @ 6/19/2007 12:06:10 PM # Q
David;

My apologies in advance for being such a Doubting Thomas here but what is the buzz in other circles (I believe the Palm Entrepeneur forums you mentioned before or on Slashdot ) in regards to Palm being able to capably support the Foleo where they have NOT (whether by desire or outright inability) to properly support their other products?

Look at the sorry state the T|T, T|W, T3, T5, Treo 650, LifeDrive and 700p shipped in. Look at how long it took Palm to "fix" some of those models whereas the others were merely abandoned a year later with the subsequent release of a successor model. And what about the utter disaster of the 700p ROM update or Palm claiming that smaller carriers (Alltel etc) don't "need" the 700p bugfixes that the Sprint & Verizon versions will be getting? And the continued neglegence of the Palm Desktop (no Vista compatible version yet) and sudden silence on the Treo 750 WM6 upgrade don't make things any rosier. Does Palm REALLY have the support resources to prop up the Foleo, especially since its initial sales are likely to be rather lackluster? And won't the Foleo (combined with the recent cuts) only detract further from Palm's already insufficient support staff?

Even leaving aside all of the above examples as "device-specific" issues, take a look at Palm's neglected PhoneLink Update software for GSM handsets. It hasn't been updated in TWO years. If Palm's PDAs via BT DUN were supposed to be mobile phone companions, how are we to trust Palm to properly support the Foleo's pairing with all of the myriad of handsets on the market? And who's to stop someone like Sprint or Verizon from putting the smackdown on Foleo connetivity if they see it as "leeching" their handsets'/smartphones' bandwidth?

My main worry is that Palm is putting far too much faith by hoping that the carriers will play nice with the Foleo (unless there are some top secret-type agreements we don't know about). It stunned me at the D conference when Hawkins was talking about wanting a product they can sell at retail and not have to worry about carrier interference....they've had such a product for 11 years now (PDAs) and they absolutely have ignored them in recent years. And yet at the end of the day Palm are STILL beholden to the carriers in several different ways. And with the current Treo lineup appearing less enticing with each passing day Palm's need to have the Foleo compatible with a variety of devices only increases.

I think that if Palm were serious about the Foleo concept they'd be like Logitech with their Harmony remote control line. Logitech does not manufacture TVs or A/V components but they fastidiously update their remote code database for devices from all manufacturers. We can only hope Palm will be a dilligent in equipping the Foleo to work on a wide variety of handsets & smartphones (not just Treos).

In fact, the manufacturers/marketers of all of these off-brand Chinese-made flat panels that have flooded the market in the past 2 or 3 years can think Logitech for a nice complimentary product for what are very nice TVs that are unfortunately usually saddled with crummy remotes.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 2:12:25 PM # Q
No need to apologize for doubting. While I'm pretty down with the Foleo *concept* I have all kinds of doubts about whether Palm has enough of the old greatness left (or maybe some new greatness) to make Foleo live up to its promise.

Obviously Palm has limited resources, and they've also had some pretty big execution and support problems. I don't pretend to be able to pinpoint the source of those problems or to know what kind of changes are or are not happening within the company to make sure they don't happen again. Things could be improving or maybe not at all, for all I know. But I can say this: there are some *really* bright people who were brought into the company to develop the Foleo. Also some people who are super-committed to developer support. As I'm sure you can imagine, it's a separate team from the ones that work on the Treos. Cause to give Palm the benefit of the doubt on this one? You tell me... I always lean toward optimism.

I don't think Palm's PDAs were ever seriously meant to be mobile phone companions the way the Foleo is, do you? They certainly never touted that idea very loudly before now. And as you know, the carriers are pretty ambivalent about BT DUN. You can get your wireless bill whacked pretty bad if you succeed in using it and try to do it very much. I think that's probably one of the reasons why Palm didn't want Foleo to depend on BT DUN.

Here's the thing about Palm and PDAs. It's not just limited engineering resources. It's also marketing and brand management. I just don't think they're interested in promoting the vision of disconnected devices any more, and even though you *can* connect your PDA to a phone or use WiFi, in the mass consciousness where marketing has to operate these are still just organizers. Palm wants to have the company name associated with one really strong brand, and that brand is Treo. Treo *means* "Internet in your pocket" in a way "Zire" or "Tungsten" or "PDA" never will, no matter what features you give those devices. Even Foleo, which is technically no more connected than a TX points to Treo: it's a smartphone companion. It looks like a totally useful standalone computer for students, journalists, writers, housewives and all kinds of people that don't care about smartphones, but I doubt you'll ever hear Palm give this idea more than the most fleeting mention. It's because their megaphone is only so big and they've got to make one loud sound come out of it so people hear and remember: "your smartphone is your new personal computer."

I'm sure the Foleo guys are crossing their fingers that Palm gets their Treo house in order, because they are going to need to restore their good name around the Treo for Foleo to succeed, even if Foleo does work with other smartphones. Foleo has to reach a certain level of credibility before other smartphone vendors are going to bother with adding support for it to their phones. Maybe third party developers will be able to add this support: I certainly hope so, because if smartphones are to take off like Foleo needs them to, Palm is going to have a difficult time keeping up support for all the new handsets that come out.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
hkklife @ 6/19/2007 4:01:01 PM # Q
Good points all of them. But really, the last stroke of "old" Palm greatness died with the release of the m500 line (IMO) and it was under spec'd....it was just a great formfactor.

But at any rate, what worries me now after your post is that it seems like that may be a decisive line being drawn in the sands of Sunnyvale outside Palm HQ. The Treo gang on one side & the Foleo team on the other. Look how that sort of in-company bickering led to the downfall of Sony (though admittedly many magnitudes larger than little ol' Palm).

Yes i agree wholeheartedly with Beersie that Palm PDAs were never seriously intended to be mobile phone companions. But they SHOULD have been. Palm could have SO nicely segued into the Foleo concept HAD they pushed *HARD* for all of their PDAs beginning with the T|T as "cell phone companions". For the two years since the TX's launch people have been clamoring for a larger-screened device from Palm...but what 90%+ of us wanted was a TX2 or an 8gb flash LifeDrive or a Treo 800g, NOT a Foleo. Back in '02/'03 when few cell phones played MP3s and even fewer had memory card slots or cameras, Palm's PDAs had all of those features. The one thing they lacked--"internet anywhere" connectivity, the cell phones of the time could've provided via IR or Bluetooth. And look how Palm DID push tethered (wired) connectivity back in '01 and '02. The SupplyNet made a KILLING off of those overpriced Universal Connector to phone cables/adapters. I had a long trip back in '03 with just a cell phone, a Supplynet cable and a T|T with a Palm Portable Keyboard and I did just fine. Palm could have stayed after the carriers (especially the CDMA ones), published monthly/quarterly PhoneLink updates and maybe even done some kind of aggressive bundling to build up awareness of "companion" devices to smartphones. The carriers could've had a nice little revenue stream from add-on "PDA data plans" On one hand Palm could say "here's our great Treo line" and on the other hand saying "Like the Treo but prefer to bring your own cell phone? Here's our great Cell Phone Companion line (aka PDAs)."

Start off small with, say, something like the T|T or T|C then build on to a LifeDrive-sized device. Had Palm PROPERLY and SERIOUSLY supported BT DUN implementation in their PDAs from day 1, there wouldn't be so many currently frustrated Treo users, depressed PDAs stragglers, and Foleo doubters. And I still see no end in sight to the glacial Treo release/maintenance/update cycle. Instead, years too late, we get....the Foleo. I still maintain a media-savvy Zodiac or Archos-sized device would've made MUCH more sense for Palm to bring onboard as a 3rd product line instead of the Foleo. Part of the Foleo's problem is that it's being produced and support by *PALM*.

Going back to the topic of Palm's severe support woes: I think this is all attributable to the "old guard" amongst Palm management who are still living in the 1998 glory years where the PDAs didn't need much in the way of R&D costs other than a few mb of extra memory here and not much in the way of support other than a small IR patch there.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 5:17:01 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
But at any rate, what worries me now after your post is that it seems like that may be a decisive line being drawn in the sands of Sunnyvale outside Palm HQ. The Treo gang on one side & the Foleo team on the other.

That's not what I was saying. I don't have any inside info about Palm Inc politics, I just know that every product a company makes has its own team, and I'm supposing that because Foleo is a product that involves unique hardware, operating system and software, its development team is somewhat more independent than the rest.

Yes i agree wholeheartedly with Beersie that Palm PDAs were never seriously intended to be mobile phone companions. But they SHOULD have been. Palm could have SO nicely segued into the Foleo concept HAD they pushed *HARD* for all of their PDAs beginning with the T|T as "cell phone companions".

I wish they had done that, too. I would like to have seen something with an M500 form factor that was just a Bluetooth-connected dumb terminal to my smartphone. Think how sleek and inexpensive that would have been with no need for storage and scarcely any need for a processor. Just a big, bright touchscreen that runs your Treo apps as if they were on a TX. Then Palm could have rolled out a doubled-sized 960x640 version for users that wanted something like Michael Mace's InfoPad that's focused on capturing handwritten notes, reading eBooks and browsing the web on a large screen: http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2006/05/desperately-seeking-info-pad.html



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Software annoucements already?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 5:23:32 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
Going back to the topic of Palm's severe support woes: I think this is all attributable to the "old guard" amongst Palm management

Hope you're right. They're all gone now.

Again, from Mike Mace, this time talking about the recent Elevation deal:

Bye-bye 3Com. Palm gets three very well respected people for its board, and removes Eric Benhamou, the last vestige of the 3Com legacy. Somewhere I have a photo of the Palm and PalmSource combined management teams from just before the two companies were separated. The photo includes everyone in the company from Mr. Benhamou down to senior directors. That was about 30+ people. Every single one of them is now gone. So if you didn't like Palm's management back then, you should take another look at the company because it's now 100% different.

http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2007/06/good-deal-palms-new-ownership.html

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Software annoucements already?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/5/2007 8:25:42 PM # Q
>> ...The Treo and the Foleo auto-sync....
>
> Wow!
>
> That sounds SO COOL!
>
> But...ya wanna know sumthin'?
>
> It's SO WRONG, too!
>
> Only that data which has been programmed around correctly will auto-sync.
>
> From all appearances, there is an email program that has been implemented
> to do this, correctly or not, with special software running on both the
> Treo and Fooleo...

== "...All Treos should work, Palm OS Treos send the Foleo email client
== info from a special version of Versamail. Windows Mobile Treos run
== a little client and link their Outlook Account to the Foleo. The Palm
== reps weren't sure if the Windows Mobile client would run on other
== Windows Mobile devices, such as smartphones and/or pocket pcs..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com//showpost.php?p=1325468&postcount=7

=================

If each and every application that "auto-syncs" with the Fooleo needs to be...special...what does this suggest about how many such applications are on the way? That is to say, if you are Joe Blow Developer are you going to distribute TWO versions of all your software PLUS and addiiton "small client" for the Fooleo, too?


RE: Software annoucements already?
AJSmith @ 7/25/2008 12:59:12 AM # Q
To speak of PIM, I'd rate EfficientPIM first. With Efficient PIM software you can keep track of tasks, appointments, birthdays, and much more. The software also gives you space for keeping notes, diaries, and even passwords. In order to be successful you need to be organized and efficient. With EfficientPIM all of the things you need to manage a located in one, easy-to-use interface.

more info
http://www.sharewarecheap.com/EfficientPIM_software_1116.html


Reply to this comment

What radio bridges Foleo and Treo?

VampireLestat @ 6/19/2007 1:54:15 AM # Q
Does the Treo talk to the Foleo via bluetooth?


RE: What radio bridges Foleo and Treo?
awawa212 @ 6/19/2007 4:33:31 AM # Q
If it communicates vai Bluetooth, will it communicate with a massive desktop Mac directly too? I suppose the good folks at MissingSync (http://www.missingsync.com) will let us know shortly.

RE: What radio bridges Foleo and Treo?
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 9:05:10 AM # Q
I don't recall anyone coming out and saying it exactly, but I haven't seen any cables and there is talk about how the proximity of the phone can be used to unlock the Foleo for better security if you wish, so that sounds like Bluetooth to me.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...

SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 6:41:17 AM # Q
...then what software has to "run" on the foreign smartphone? Java?

And the Coming-Real-Soon-Now applications that this article announces - Java-based or something else?

RE: If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...
cervezas @ 6/19/2007 8:23:23 AM # Q
I'm supposing that sync happens via a communications protocol like OBEX, which is part of most Bluetooth stacks. The sync logic could be implemented in any programming language, per the requirements of the specific phone platform.

Developing for Foleo is almost certainly done in C, this being Linux. But Ben Combee mentioned once that Palm is very interested in supporting Java and SuperWaba developers, too. Since Sun opened the source of their JVMs it shouldn't be too hard to put a good Java environment in there. Usually Perl, Python and Ruby are easy to port (or just work) on Linux platforms, too.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...
thomaslb @ 6/19/2007 9:01:26 AM # Q
What I'm wondering at is the possibility that something like OpenOffice.org's OpenOffice might work on this. They have a Linux version and there is a version that can work on solid state/flash drives (all integral to the Foleo). I realize it might not be that simple (or my logic on this uninformed). But THAT would be killer. A full real office suite better than MS Office running on something like the Foleo. And being free, OO would not add to cost of ownership.

TI Avigo -> Palm IIIx -> TRGpro -> HE330-> TRGpro -> AlphaSmart Dana -> TRGpro -> Palm M515
RE: If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...
mikecane @ 6/19/2007 9:37:10 AM # Q
And how would you sync those documents to a Treo or other device? Isn't another layer needed for that, or is this all handled by the device's OS?

RE: If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...
palmato @ 6/19/2007 10:10:28 AM # Q
A few comments.

OpenOffice. Don't forget this is an arm device. Besides all the porting issues already mentioned, the performance wouldn't be enough to run it smoothly.

Java. I don't think this can run the standard j2se. Rather someone will have to port the CDC JVM plus the personal profile (if I remember the terminology correctly) and Sun only provides a reference implementation. I don't think that's a trivial task, otherwise we would have seen more open implementations.
The waba guys may have an easier time, although I'm not thrilled by non standard implementations.

On palm's java attitude. Sorry I'm skeptical. Palm has never taken java seriously, and nothing indicates a change of mind. The CLDC-MIDP they distribute is worse than the one on cheapest java phone out there (not to mention Sony Ericsson).


--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: If the Fooleo 'syncs' with ANY smartphone...
SeldomVisitor @ 6/19/2007 10:15:56 AM # Q
W.r.t. the java comment I made - that was based off of how FAST the applications mentioned in the article this message thread is a commentary to (...) came out.

Java "applications" are REAL fast to "port" from platform to platform.

Reply to this comment

Why don't they release the SDK to public now?

asiayeah @ 6/19/2007 12:59:05 PM # Q
Apparently, Palm has selected only a few developers to start writing applications for the Foleo now.

I am wondering why they don't simply open the SDK to everyone? This will give more momentum to the platform. Perhaps the simulator isn't ready yet?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Reply to this comment

Questions about Emailing without 'Contacts'...

analogue wings @ 6/19/2007 8:38:05 PM # Q
What are the implications for the Foleo Email app of Contacts being an optional extra?

If "Contacts" is a separate app, where does the Foleo email app keep my email addresses?

If I want to email someone from my Foleo for the first time (I'm being charitable and assuming Auto Complete), do I have to look their address up on my Treo?

If I email a new person from my Foleo, and add that person's email to the Foleo Email app's "Address Book" (if it has one), does that get synched back to my Treo? Where on the Treo? Contacts?

What happens to all the above if I add a Contacts app? Do I now have two Foleo apps synching with my Treo Contacts app? Do I have Treo and Foleo Contacts in sync and Foleo email addresses out of sync?

IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650

RE: Questions about Emailing without 'Contacts'...
Gekko @ 6/19/2007 8:54:21 PM # Q

simply memorize your contact list email addresses. no need for any complex "Contacts" app out of the box.

enjoy -

The Fooleo Team



RE: Questions about Emailing without 'Contacts'...
VampireLestat @ 6/20/2007 3:05:57 AM # Q
LOL

Reply to this comment

Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's PIM

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/25/2007 3:56:36 AM # Q
hTheir website is not showing up anymore! Hmmmmmm...


TVoR

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 6:40:59 AM # Q
Dead server and they're on vacation so no one's around to fix it? The URL still "works" in that it clears DNS lookup.


RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 7:17:27 AM # Q
RE: Is MotionApps still in business?
cervezas @ 7/25/2007 8:08:27 AM # Q
Yes they are in San Francisco, and most definitely in business.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
palmato @ 7/25/2007 8:28:09 AM # Q
A quick look at whois shows that their site is hosted by vicert.com and this is down too.


--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's PIM
numlock @ 7/25/2007 11:56:19 AM # Q
Could you possible be running out of topics to spread your lies and FUD on the Foleo today?


RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 12:26:19 PM # Q
Ahem - if you, numlock, are addressing TVoR he was - perhaps still is - 100% correct.

If you are addressing me I certainly would like to know WHY you are addressing me in such a manner for my two posts in this thread.

If you are addressing cervesas the same comment applies.

If you are addressing palmato the same comment applies.

Like, uh, what's up? And why?

Perhaps hatred is blinding you?

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
numlock @ 7/25/2007 1:31:59 PM # Q
Seldom, I was referring to TVOR, whose anti-palm shilling has reached new levels of lowness.

Oh no a vendor's website is temporarily down! They must be out of business!!! What will become of the foleo now?

Motionapps is based in Frisco, which as anyone knows suffered some major power problems yesterday:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/07/24/2210255.shtml

'Buzz buzz buzz, I wonder why he does.'
cervezas @ 7/25/2007 1:51:10 PM # Q
numlock wrote:
Could you possible be running out of topics to spread your lies and FUD on the Foleo today?

SeldomVisitor
If you are addressing me I certainly would like to know WHY you are addressing me in such a manner for my two posts in this thread.

Hoo boy! Are you just playing dumb, or do you really not realize how transparent your manic attempts to build negative buzz around PALM are?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9491/#135076

You're not a user of Palm products and never have been, yet you're ubiquitous with your droning FUD on multiple Palm fan and financial sites. As far as anyone here can see in that previous exchange linked above, you've all but admitted that you are trying to cover a short position on PALM shares. And then you get all defensive when people treat you like pond scum? What a laugh! Seriously, it's a shame about your portfolio, but don't expect a lot of sympathy from the readers here.

Ooh, I just can't wait to here you try to deflect this by your lame aspersions against my credibility. C'mon, let's have another go at it, why don't we, SV?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 1:53:22 PM # Q
You are interestingly increasingly bitter in your posts.

Something has indeed bit you.

bitter?
cervezas @ 7/25/2007 3:09:12 PM # Q
Bitter? I'm the optimist, remember? The one who thinks Foleo answers a real need among highly mobile users and is interested in developing applications for it?

It's not bitterness, it's contempt. I can chalk TVoR's defecations here up to a borderline personality disorder, but taken as a whole your comments strike me as calculated venality. I appreciate the honest criticism of the sort we get from Kris Keilhack or even Mike Cane, who for all his frothing and occasional illogic at least says what he says because he is convinced of it himself. Hell, even TVoR owns Palm products and seems to have some kind of interest in mobile computing, God bless him/her/it. You, on the other hand, show none of that, which together with the weight of other circumstantial evidence leads me to believe your motive is a purely cynical desire to manipulate opinion for personal gain.

Perhaps I'm wrong about you, but despite my encouragement you so far haven't done anything to try to dispel this appearance.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's PIM
hkklife @ 7/25/2007 4:30:17 PM # Q
David; Thanks for the nod.

While I still maintain that the Fooleo is still, conceptually (I've yet to fondle one), one of the worst ideas brought to market by ANYONE since the 3Com Audrey or the original DIVX format, I am still a staunch supporter of the Palm platform and, overall, Palm Inc.

I have invested an emormous amount of time, effort, and $ into the Palm platform over the past decade +. It pains me to see the repeated fumbles made by the Palm companies, Palm's lack of a cohesive product roadmap and strategy, and their blatant disdain for their dwindling-but-still-vocal loyal userbase. That said, I will stick with POS (in whatever iteration it takes--no, I do not consider the Foleo one of those) until there are no more devices left running it and/or nothing left to suit my purposes. I still maintain that for my purposes, WM6 & the various BlackBerry devices are unsatisfactory alternatives.

I call a spade a spade and will dish out compliments as well as criticism as I see fit. With Palm Inc. it's unfortunately usually more of the later BUT still not enough to drive me from the platform. Heck, if anything, it only makes me more adamant to see things change and the company try to return to the glory years of '96-'00.

Unlike David and many others (anonymous or not) on this site, I have zero affiliation with the mobile computing industry aside from what I contribute to PIC. So I approach any Palm-stuff that transpires stricly from a user's perspective, always keeping things in the perspective of MY $ at work on the purchasing end. That's not as a fanboy, but a concerned, unapologetic and loyal user of the Palm OS. If brutality is what it takes, then that's what I'll give, as long it's brutal honesty.

For the record, SV has a very keen insight to the mechanizations of the industry as a WHOLE (not so much with Palm Inc.) and, less obviously, a solid background in "old school" programming/coding/computing. TVoR has owned a slew of Palm OS products (mostly Clies) over the years and currently has a 700p. Since TVoR IS Carl Yankowski, he has a very good feel for the inner workings of Palm Inc as well as quite an axe to grind with Palm/PalmSource/Access. And Mike Cane remains....Mike Cane.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Is MotionApps still in business? If not, who will do FOOLeo's
SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 4:52:07 PM # Q
> ...Since TVoR IS Carl Yankowski...

Gack!

OT discussion of personalities
cervezas @ 7/25/2007 5:39:20 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
I approach any Palm-stuff that transpires strictly from a user's perspective, always keeping things in the perspective of MY $ at work on the purchasing end.

It's a valuable perspective. And not just in the abstract since I often have to advise clients about purchasing decisions of their own. I own a pretty large stable of Palm and other devices, but when it comes to wireless handsets I can't own and activate every one on every network it's available. So I rely on you and others like you who have in-the-trenches experience with specific Palm devices to help me advise customers on purchases.

For the record, SV has a very keen insight to the mechanizations of the industry as a WHOLE (not so much with Palm Inc.)

I don't question the keenness. I do suspect you'd see it applied in very different ways and with different results if his financial interests tilted in another direction. I can think of no other participant on this forum who has zero "user interest" in Palm or other mobile technology products yet offers up such perfectly filtered barrage of negative information and commentary about Palm the company. Can you think of a single post after all these years that has conceded one iota of good news or good will toward Palm?

TVoR is just as bad in this regard, but let's not go there. All I'll say is that if you get right down to it his opinions are more about TVoR than they are about Palm. That's what keeps him coming back and it's quite different from SV's apparent motivation.

And Mike Cane remains....Mike Cane.

Truer words were never uttered. ;-) There's something to be said for the self-made "Internet Personality" and whatever that thing is you can sure say it about Mike Cane. :-)

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
personalities, more OT
freakout @ 7/25/2007 6:59:53 PM # Q
I don't question the keenness. I do suspect you'd see it applied in very different ways and with different results if his financial interests tilted in another direction. I can think of no other participant on this forum who has zero "user interest" in Palm or other mobile technology products yet offers up such perfectly filtered barrage of negative information and commentary about Palm the company. Can you think of a single post after all these years that has conceded one iota of good news or good will toward Palm?

Exactly.

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