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Comments on: Palm Announces New Linux Based Mobile Platform

Today at Palm Inc's Analyst Day, Palm CEO Ed Colligan officially announced that Palm will deliver a new Linux and open source based mobile computing platform combined with Palm OS Garnet technology on new products later this year. The new platform was just announced at the Palm Analyst meeting and details are light at this point and still coming in. Read on for some slides and more information from the presentation.

The platform is described as a "new foundation for Palm." It will combine aspects of Palm OS Garnet and a Linux core. Palm plans to "evolve" the Palm Developer community to the new platform.

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But who's Linux is this?

Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 9:32:34 AM # Q
Is this new Linux platform developed in-house by Palm, or is he loosely referring to Access's ALP foundation?

If it's the former this is fantastic news.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Ryan @ 4/10/2007 9:40:53 AM # Q
This is in house from Palm, Colligan said they've been working on this for years.

Details are still really light at this point, as they only vaguely announced the platform with no real technical details yet.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8042/palm-preparing-for-linux-development/
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8551/palms-open-secrets-exposed/

RE: But who's Linux is this?
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 9:43:08 AM # Q
I'd say with almost complete certainty that this is NOT the ALP/Access IP. I think Palm are going to stay as far from Access as possible other than the FrankenGarnet licensing matters are concerned.

The vague term "commitment to Palm OS customers" could mean aything from just mimicking the Palm OS GUI & loon'n feel in Linux to a compatibility layer on top of it.

Heck, Palm may even have another Garnet device or two left in it yet!

One thought I have had in the back of my mind for a while...Garnet is still seemingly stuck at OS 5.4.9.

Palm may release all new POS Treos going forward as OS 5.5 (that is, all post-755p Treos) and have some soft of compatibility certification process, where anything that runs on Garnet 5.5 will also run on the new Palm Linux-based solution coming at year's end (this could be the "evolving " of not oly the developer commmuity but the user base as well as was hinted at in the presentation).

P.S.
Such an occasion would also be the perfect time to release a final round of mildly revised PDAs...I am shocked that they even mention PDAs in the talk--at least they are still turning a profit!


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 9:56:03 AM # Q
Hmm. Well this is certainly great news, but I'll restrain my enthusiasm until I see this secret new Linux core from Palm's skunkworks for myself. A lot of questions remain unanswered, and given Palm's track record and slow pace of innovation, I have this horrible vision of the same outdated PalmOS GUI running on top of Linux. I hope that doesn't prove to be the case, but when has Palm shown anything innovative within the last three years in terms of software or hardware?

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: But who's Linux is this?
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 10:01:30 AM # Q
Kent, the Palm skunkworks have been around much longer than you think...they've been cooking up half-baked STINKERS such as the Palm VII, i705, LifeDrive, and 700p for years now!! ;-)

In terms of innovative hardware or software, you're right that Palm has (at best) done precious little other than a few nice GUI nips & tucks to Garnet. Here are a few examples of things I particularly liked: the fantastic threaded messaging app in the 700p & 680, the 680's phone app/contact interface, the stylus tip-sized reset button, the Treo d-pad (especially the 750/680 version), the boing-boing retractable stylus of the T|T/LifeDrive and the Palm Treo cradle with its nifty hidden battery charging compartment.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:01:52 PM # Q
**** ROTFLMAO ****

>>>Is this new Linux platform developed in-house by Palm, or is he loosely referring to Access's ALP foundation?

>>>If it's the former this is fantastic news.

Er, Foo, shouldn't you be on the fekkin ground offering MANY MANY MANY apologies to Beers?

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 2:48:56 PM # Q
Er, Foo, shouldn't you be on the fekkin ground offering MANY MANY MANY apologies to Beers?

For what? We've known Palm was developing some kind of next generation platform for some time. I even mentioned it just a few days ago. The only unanswered question was whether it would be a totally unique architecture or just Garnet slapped on top of Linux. We still don't know what the hell this OS really is, other than the fact Linux is its foundation.

The best news to come out of this announcement today is that Palm isn't moving to Windows Mobile. Had Palm chosen this path, it would killed what makes Palm unique.

You can bet money the new OS will not be made available to existing users (who have long endured and suffered from years of FrankenGarnet), which means we all have to upgrade to new smartphones in order to access PalmLinux (whatever it's called). And it's much too late for that because my tax dollars are going to iPhone, just like millions of other users.

In a nutshell... this is too little, too late. This move should have come two years ago. Palm has annihilated its brand name and reputation. It will take every resource to get back what they've lost, let alone grow beyond.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:16:12 PM # Q
Foo, must I violate your privacy by running a quote from an email you once sent me? I still have it.

Now be nice and apologize.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:17:14 PM # Q
And Foo, I still want an iPhone too.

But this is Third Business stuff *first*, not for Treo. And that can make it a *very* nice iPhone Companion.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:30:17 PM # Q
Hey, Foo!

I just sent TWO of your emails back at ya.

Be a man. Do the right thing.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 3:40:13 PM # Q
Did you send them to kentATpocketfactory.com? Nothing has crossed my inbox.

No matter. I'll admit I didn't buy into David's crackpot theory either. Basing everything on little more than the fact Palm was hiring developers with Linux experience was like putting two and two together, making eight. But when industry analysts began murmuring about Palm's secret project, it was obviously a fact.

But if I'm not mistaken, David also bashed me for my prediction that Palm wouldn't be using ALP. Even called me out on it. Now... if he knew Palm was developing its own Linux project, why did he believe they would adopt ALP. Seems like a contradiction.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 3:50:29 PM # Q
Where is David anyway? I would have thought this announcement would be music to his ears, since it proved his theory right.

If you're here David, speak up. And congratulations. Now what were you saying about ALP?

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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: But who's Linux is this?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 4:05:15 PM # Q
> ...The only unanswered question was whether it would be a totally
> unique architecture or just Garnet slapped on top of Linux. We still
> don't know what the hell this OS really is, other than the fact Linux is its
> foundation...

The graphic accompanying this article (from the presentation) pretty explicitily shows the Linux part is underneath Garnet AS WELL AS standalone - those cutesy arrows aren't there for no reason.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
palmato @ 4/10/2007 4:35:16 PM # Q
The graphic accompanying this article (from the presentation) pretty explicitily shows the Linux part is underneath Garnet AS WELL AS standalone - those cutesy arrows aren't there for no reason.

Oh, I love so much arrow-ware: makes SW development look easy and nice. While hiding the things that really matter...

I heard the whole thing (really boring) and I'm not sure Colligan explicitly says the Linux adaptation was entirely done by Palm itself. Am I missing something?
However they had to start from something, and AFAIK whatever distribution they chose the license is GPL: meaning they have to release the source to the community, at least the part regarding the kernel. The garnet emulator and the new API are not part of that.

--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: But who's Linux is this?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 4:55:55 PM # Q
Maybe they took what Motorola had in their phones and flew with it!


RE: But who's Linux is this?
palmato @ 4/10/2007 5:22:05 PM # Q
Or maybe it's windriver... (longtime rumor on pic)


--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 6:00:52 PM # Q
I don't think they said *everything* will be PalmLinux.

There's still a good case for making something like a TX with just FrankenGarnet if all one wants is a PDA. Heck, I'd like a TX-like PDA (but with LifeDrive design) *without* WiFi if it'd cut the price.

A PDA for me is the core apps with maybe some video option (TCPMP). Just make sure I can use a keyboard with it too (dump the BT, make it a bottom connector) and I'm happy.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
cervezas @ 4/10/2007 7:08:42 PM # Q
Yawn.

Old news.

Apologies accepted.

Can I get back to work now?

:D

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

For the record
cervezas @ 4/10/2007 7:16:23 PM # Q
Ok, for those who don't know me, here is the original series of posts where I discussed (with increasing certainty) what turns out to be pretty close to what Palm just announced:

Forget PalmSource. What about Palm's Linux plans? (3/23/06)
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=57

What Palm Inc's Linux OS might look like (3/26/06)
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=59

It's confirmed: Palm is building their own OS (3/29/06)
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=60

Looks like I may have been right about this one, too:

Palm turns to the server side (4/23/06)
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=69

...and about "delivering software and device updates over the internet":

Palm and device management
http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=75

Those are the posts that pre-dated (or co-dated) my "Palm's Open Secrets Revealed" article on PIC, which was kind of a roundup of the information I'd collected by May of last year. Looking back at that article now it looks like I was 3 for 3 in my predictions! Woot!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8551/palms-open-secrets-exposed/



David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: But who's Linux is this?
PenguinPowered @ 4/10/2007 10:28:46 PM # Q
Congratulations on your sleuthing David.

I must say that the idea that Palm has really been working on its own Linux port for more than two years cracks me up no end.

It makes the year I spent at PalmSource seem even more surreal, which I didn't think would be possible.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: But who's Linux is this?
Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 10:39:23 PM # Q
Ha! That's the best quote I've read all day Marty! ;-)

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: But who's Linux is this?
mikecane @ 4/11/2007 10:49:12 AM # Q
Where is the legendary hackbod these days?

Even if she has nothing to do with Palm any longer -- or even ALP/PalmSource (ALPSource?) -- it'd be good to have her chime in.

RE: But who's Linux is this?
PenguinPowered @ 4/11/2007 1:15:18 PM # Q
She's an electric sheep, these days, and has no interest in anything Palm related, other than to compete with it.

May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Spin, denial and distraction
twrock @ 4/14/2007 2:26:52 AM # Q
Be a man. Do the right thing.

There are plenty of people who ought to step up and eat a little crow. But the typical pattern around here is more like:

-Boldly make predictions or emphatic statements about what will or will not happen regarding Palm (the majority of which present Palm in a negative light)

-Mock anyone who presents an alternate interpretation of the available data (quite possibly referring to them as a "Palm apologist" in an attempt to add to the insult and marginalize their insight)

-When in the course of time what actually happens shows you to be wrong, either spin your original statements around so many times that you were "right" all along or try to distract everyone with some "yeah, but..." statement, hoping they will forget that you were simply spouting ignorance from the beginning.

-Most importantly, avoid at all costs a straight up "I was wrong".

You'd more likely find "men" at an elementary playground during recess.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: But who's Linux is this?
ballistic @ 4/15/2007 7:48:59 AM # Q
Five days later, I'm wondering if this news will ever make the front page at Pocketfactory...
Reply to this comment

What about hardware

PacManFoo @ 4/10/2007 9:38:03 AM # Q
Now tell us what kind of hardware you plan to put this on Palm. Let me know if it's time I get off this roller coaster ride or not.

At least the chart is truthful in showing the decline in the commitment to the Palm OS community.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100

RE: What about hardware
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 9:49:42 AM # Q
That, my friend, is where Hawkins' new "thing" will enter the picture. I expect any details on the hardware running this to be the very final bits of info to be released...and don't be surprised if "later this year" turns into "Q1 '08". It wouldn't be the first time Palm has missed the crucial Christmas season with a "hot" new product (the i705 springs immediately to mind).



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: What about hardware
nybble @ 4/10/2007 2:20:22 PM # Q
Yeah, I hope we learn about Hawkin's project, that's a real question mark. It could help save Palm, although like everything about palm, I'm not holding my breath. They're reasonably good at talking about stuff and putting out press, less good, you know, actually delivering anything...

Blogged a little more deeply about my thoughts on this latest stuff..

http://comments.deasil.com/2007/04/10/palms-last-chance/

my blog: http://comments.deasil.com/">#comments

RE: What about hardware
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:18:23 PM # Q
I just blogged about it too:

Can It Be? Palm Is Tired Of Being A Bunch Of Eejits?
http://tinyurl.com/26a36p

Reply to this comment

Thank God we can stop talking about ALP now

Foo Fighter @ 4/10/2007 10:07:44 AM # Q
One side-benefit to today's news is that we can finally stop talking about ALP and ignore Access's development project because it has NO IMPACT on Palm users. So long Access, and good RIDDANCE!

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Thank God we can stop talking about ALP now
scstraus2 @ 4/10/2007 8:56:59 PM # Q
I'm not so quick to say good riddance to all the developers that created the palmOS and many who created Be. I'd like to see something from both companies, because the Palm developers don't have much of a track record of developing anything like an OS, and what I have seen from them so far has been pretty buggy. Not like the PalmOS I used to love.

Reply to this comment

Don't forget the Bill Coleman connection - slide #19

SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 10:16:35 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

Yet ...

khertan @ 4/10/2007 10:16:47 AM # Q
Palm announce the new revolutionnary next gen Palm OS that will overkill all of the other PDA ... Do you remember Cobalt ?

I don't think this new OS ll be a revolution, but ll be a good evolution.

And yes the no very secret product will be a mix between a pda and the know one umpc. A larger display based on an unix with a palm GUI and a compatibility layer to run Palm compiled applications.

The specs ... the new PXA320 at 733 Mhz with the same battery life than a tx, wifi, bluetooth and a 5,5" display.

Yes there are already a umpc/pda device with this specifications on the market. But not from Palm, and with an linux and it s run very well (500$).

Maybe palm ll ear me ... I WANT A TREO WITH AN TX SCREEN ! NO KEYBOARD ! GIVE YOUR USER THE CHOICE TO HAVE OR NOT A KEYBOARD ON THE TREO LINE !

And please for developper, stop to do specific things on each different devices. Unify your API ! A simple example ... the way that the home button preferences is stored on a Palm TX, a Treo 650, and a Treo 680 !

Benoit HERVIER
http://www.khertan.net/

RE: Yet ...
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:06:26 PM # Q
>>>The specs ... the new PXA320 at 733 Mhz with the same battery life than a tx, wifi, bluetooth and a 5,5" display.

Dear God in Heaven (or Ed Colligan, whichever will read this!), Make It So!

I'm telling all of you, THIS is the IDEAL SIZE for devices:

http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/prs/reader_specs.html

This is what UMPCs should shrink to. This is what PDAs should have grown up to.

As much as I lust after a UMPC, when I seriously contemplated right-now use, I had to admit it'd be almost like having to pull out a notebook. The Sony Reader is a drop-in-bag pull-out-now size.

All that being said, I still want a pocketable PDA. I don't need it to have WiFi, either. It's just about worthless on a 320x480 screen (and little better on the Nokia device). I just want to be able to do the core 4: Calendar, Address, Memo, To Do -- and, well, maybe a video now and then...

RE: Yet ...
mikecane @ 4/11/2007 11:47:13 AM # Q
New blog entries:

It’s Time To Stop Looking At Cheap Devices!
http://tinyurl.com/3cnrmt

Nokia 770: Now 99.9% Shit!
http://tinyurl.com/39knk9

RE: Yet ...
twrock @ 4/14/2007 2:51:25 AM # Q
I WANT A TREO WITH AN TX SCREEN ! NO KEYBOARD ! GIVE YOUR USER THE CHOICE TO HAVE OR NOT A KEYBOARD ON THE TREO LINE !

Yes, what he said.

If nothing else, the iPhone specs should show Palm that there is a market for this type of device. What, do you really think that Apple didn't do at least a little market research before spec'ing out the iPhone? How is it possible that Apple is going to beat Palm to market with a large screen, keyboardless smartphone? Palm should be able to put out POS, large screen, keyboardless Treo at significantly less cost than Apple's iPhone.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

Reply to this comment

Development Environment

epotter @ 4/10/2007 10:45:47 AM # Q
Is there any word on what development tools will be available? I assume that we can still develop Garnet apps with CodeWarrior or PODS. But what if we want to take advantage of the new Linux features.

Is there any news on a new SDK?

RE: Development Environment
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 10:59:50 AM # Q
From a power user standpoint (I have no clue whatsoever how to develop software), I'd like to see them really address the whole SDK thing properly so there won't be so many "under the hood" changes from device to device. For example, the hard button mappings has changed at least 3x under OS 5.x. Then you have stuff like the DIA area calls changing from the T5 to the TX (the straw that broke the back of Fitaly), the strange allocation of things like dbheap & dbcache memory (too little on a flagship PDA like the TX to a very generous amount on the relatively entry-level Treo 680) etc etc.

I imagine all of this makes it very tough on the developers who have numerous other issues to content with (software sites not paying comissions, the shrinking market for add-on POS softwareetc). Palm needs to rally the remaining developers (and users) and make '07 a trasitional year now that the way forward has finally been revealed (something that should've been done a year ago IMO).

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

wow, shocking news

VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:05:39 AM # Q
"Palm OS Garnet and a Linux core"

hmm sounds much better than the retarded "ALP on Linux core which so happens to run Palm OS is a slow Ghost emulator in a non 320x480 resolution BS"

Now reading this exciting article! Woohoo!

I HOPE there is going to be a TX with this OS. If its Treo only, im going to be so Fn pissed.

RE: wow, shocking news
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 11:09:15 AM # Q
> I HOPE there is going to be a TX with this OS. If its Treo
> only, im going to be so Fn pissed.

PALM explicitly mentioned "multiple design form-factors".

RE: wow, shocking news
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:23:05 AM # Q
Woohooooooooooooooo!

RE: wow, shocking news
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 11:26:10 AM # Q
The CEO during Q&A just said "we're not going to talk about product line" in answer to a question but then went on to say:

== "Linux product by end of year"

but THEN:

== "Smartphone linux product in 08"

Both slight paraphrases but accurate reflections of his meaning.

RE: wow, shocking news
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:30:59 AM # Q
Interesting... calculated slip to send a coded message to keep hope there will be another TX but at the same time pretend he is actually not commenting on product lines?

RE: wow, shocking news
ballistic @ 4/10/2007 11:36:35 AM # Q
"Linux product" by year's end (Ed Colligan just said new products & services will be coming *soon*) will most likely Hawkins's "third business" IMHO. I suspect the product will be shown and announced at D in May with a release date in June.
RE: wow, shocking news
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 11:42:39 AM # Q
Based on all the words about web-based stuff, I'd start calling it "Coleman's Next Great Thing" rather than Hawkins'.

RE: wow, shocking news
Erik_the_Red @ 4/10/2007 1:35:42 PM # Q
I went through 3 Palms before I finally got sick of waiting for a WiFi-enabled / PalmOS 6 (Cobalt, whatever you want to call it -- it doesn't matter because it never came) Treo.

So, I ditched my Palm last year and got an old Sharp Zaurus SL-5600. Still isn't the integrated PDA, WiFi & phone solution I wanted, but it is very good, nevertheless. It's amusing that Sharp's 4+ year-old form factor device is better in many respects to the latest Treo 600 re-treds that Palm has been peddling. Palm should face the fact that it has lost its ability to innovate and simply take a page out of Microsoft's playbook: steal the innovation of others:
1. Get the rights to Sharp's Zaurus hardware or just shamelessly copy it -- really, the Zaurus hardware is excellent. Keyboard is easy to use (like Treo), screen is great, slider is convenient, etc.... It's like having a laptop computer in a PDA-sized package.
2. Add a phone -- no problem here.
3. Add WiFi -- little worried with this one as Palm has demonstrated over and over again that it can't do phone and WiFi at the same time.
4. Ditch all internal attempts to develop a new OS -- Palm, you CAN'T do it. Talk to the Cobalt team to find out why.
5. Devote all your software people to integrating a Palm interface/compatibility layer on existing Linux PDA software -- Get out of the software business, Palm; others do it better. Base your new Palm OS 6 on the OpenSource Zaurus OS (Cacko ROM) and PM applications (pi-sync).
6. Ship it before I die and I might just consider buying it. But if you keep screwing around, I will crack open a bottle of champagne the day I hear that you are handing out pink-slips to all your employees.


RE: wow, shocking news
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 1:49:00 PM # Q
Could it be that they are just going to say "To h3ll with updating Palm Desktop for Vista...let's just release a Vista-compliant conduit/USB driver & make the whole thing web-based!"

??



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: wow, shocking news
feranick @ 4/10/2007 8:27:09 PM # Q
Quote from Erik

4. Ditch all internal attempts to develop a new OS -- Palm, you CAN'T do it. Talk to the Cobalt team to find out why.

Those were the folks at PalmSource (Now ACCESS). I have faith that Jeff Hawkins's lead will be way more productive.

Reply to this comment

Christening the new OS...

VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:23:32 AM # Q
Since Palm cannot use the name "Palm OS" anymore, I recommend the new OS be named:


###################
# Palm System 6.0!#
###################



RE: Christening the new OS...
ballistic @ 4/10/2007 11:26:07 AM # Q
Palm bought back the rights to use the Palm and Palm OS names. Palm's new Linux based mobile platform will be "Palm OS".
RE: Christening the new OS...
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:26:59 AM # Q
And for quick talk/type...

"Yeah, I am running PS v6"

crap... PS is already used by PlayStation. hmm

RE: Christening the new OS...
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:28:41 AM # Q
"Palm bought back the rights to use the Palm and Palm OS names. Palm's new Linux based mobile platform will be "Palm OS"."

oh ok then, that settles that. Palm OS it will be! :)


RE: Christening the new OS...
Tuckermaclain @ 4/10/2007 3:19:26 PM # Q
How about the "Palm Advanced Compilation 6?" My PDA's running 6-pac. I'm drunk with power.

RE: Christening the new OS...
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:45:43 PM # Q
Palm Vista.

Ooops.

Reply to this comment

Where can we listen to the announcement?

VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:38:41 AM # Q
Anyone know?

RE: Where can we listen to the announcement?
Ryan @ 4/10/2007 11:40:15 AM # Q
It's being webcast live now, but may be archived later here:

http://investor.palm.com/

RE: Where can we listen to the announcement?
ballistic @ 4/10/2007 11:40:21 AM # Q
RE: Where can we listen to the announcement?
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:41:58 AM # Q
Nevermind, found it.

http://investor.palm.com/

RE: Where can we listen to the announcement?
PacManFoo @ 4/10/2007 2:56:43 PM # Q
Funny, they still show the Lifedrive on their Investor Relations page.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100
Reply to this comment

My comments on last part of broadcast

VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 11:56:42 AM # Q
OK Q&A live just ended.

Mr. Brown just spilled the beans by admitting that Palm is investing near a big fat 0$ in handheld R&D.

I notice they have a new buzz expression: "We are monitoring the handheld situation."
At least they are no longer applauding, gloating and all excited to announce they are canabalizing their own PDA market and attempting to force a migration to the Treo; even though we know thats what they are doing.

Colligan finally found 2 constructive concepts to communicate: a) PDAs allow Palm to keep open retail distribution channels in case they want to slip in other products. b)PDAs will be used to surreptitiously migrate users to Treos.

You know, it really sickens me to hear/know they have no idea that some people simply prefer to have a slimmer TX with a larger screen, grafiti and different buttons. And for them to admit they are giddy that PDAs are still profitable even though Palm is investing nearly nothing is a gross demonstration of disdain.

Colligan barely aknowleged that some users want a seperate phone and PDA. And even on that comment he belittles handheld fans by saying that those users simply need to use PIM to organize theirs lives a bit. ITS THE OPPOSITE! Handhelds are supposed to be mobile computing focuses with better hardware and design than the TReo which is a converged compromise phone-centric device!!!

I give up.
They just don't get it.


RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 12:09:18 PM # Q
And another thing!
If they don't share WM vs Palm OS sellthrough numbers then PLEASE shut up about this 30 to 40% PDA decline crap. Its negative, its destructive, its disdainful and its a self fulling prophecy.

I will see the day they come back scrambling trying to reinforce handheld sales in order for us battered fans to chip in to keep Palm Inc in the black!

Can't they see that people in the meetings are constantly asking about handhelds? There obvious concern because most people with a brain know that there is a huge market there. And its GROWTH market IF the right products are presented! All the chuckling people all proud to announce some bs about some Mexican gov migrating to Treos has to stop. JUST SHUT UP! They switched? FINE. WHO CARES?! Stop creating a situation where the Treo success equates to destroying the handheld market.

This is all very simple stuff and a bright guy like Colligan should know this shit.
You talk up both Treo and PDAs and you commit yourself to supporting both (in new products, decent R&D, etc). Its is plain idiotic to conclude that PDAs are dead after 10 years of growth. This is a cycle and market reajustment. If Palm was as dedicated to PDAs as much as it is to Treos, both markets would be incredibly profitable.

Remember when many of warned that WM would take $ and focus away from Palm OS? Well looks like what happened instead was they turned away from PDAs.

People are not going to buy handhelds if Palm doesnt make or upgrade any!

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 12:21:41 PM # Q
Anyways, sigh, Palm OS Linux is down the pipeline so I guess we should be happy.
But these meetings with Brown and Colligan really piss me off.


RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
painted_dog @ 4/10/2007 12:39:01 PM # Q
I agree Palm just doesn't get it & i'm sick & tired of being unappreciated & neglected. I have been a long time Palm user (Palm IIIe, Clie ?, T|T, T|E) but no more. The Treo's are nice & a good concept, but w/ the questionable build quality & lack of Palm support & average or below feature set, forget it.

I still am a reader of Palm Infocenter, but when it came time for a new device, i did not by a Palm (or a WM device) & though the symbian OS isn't quite a robust as Palm's, i can muli-task & have Wi-Fi, & have 5 bands of coverage, BB-connect & firmware updates.

I keep hoping that Palm get's their sh*t together, but they'll have earn me back, talk is cheap & vaporware sucks.

-painted dog

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
PacManFoo @ 4/10/2007 12:49:32 PM # Q
I'm in total agreement with you.

I'm just so dumbfounded that everyone is so eager to see the death of the PDA for a phone. Look how well it turned out for Colligan the last time though at Handspring, oh wait that killed Handspring. For their sake they better hope Treo users are as loyal as their basterd brethren handheld users have been. Somehow I just don't see that as being the case though.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 12:52:18 PM # Q
painted dog,

And you know what is totally ridiculous?

Palm could snuff out all the negative talk, rebuild its user base, and dramatically increase profits is only they made just a couple of new good handhelds.

They are retarded, Im telling you, trust me. THEY ARE RETARDED.

But you know, this was all planned. Colligan has always been a Handera smartphone guy and he applied his culture to Palm Inc when they hired him back a few year ago. I just went through all 110 powerpoint slides on the meeting earlier. One of the beginning slides actually shows that Palm made it an objective to transition pda users to Treos.

They are in essence, turning their nose on a large part of their traditional consumers. And they don't care because they are convinced that Treos are higher profit, better and used by God himself.

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 12:59:05 PM # Q
Its funny you mention feeling neglected. Many of slides talk about Palm wanting to get closer to consumers and make them happier.

Funny how everything new they do infuriates me.
I could slash great big red Xs and marked FAILED MISERABLY over tons of the slide objectives.

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
sremick @ 4/10/2007 1:40:39 PM # Q
RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:21:37 PM # Q
>>>This is all very simple stuff and a bright guy like Colligan should know this shit.

You can type "shit" into PIC now? When did this become like my blog?

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
buckeyetex315 @ 4/10/2007 3:54:35 PM # Q
sremick -
I read your comments on the reference post. Can't agree with you and the others in this section more. I just want a FAST, reliable PDA with a large (at least 320 x 480) screen and WiFi.

I don't have a Treo for a few reasons:
1) I'm not ready to combine my PDA and phone for many of the reasons you mention.
2) I want a WiFi capable device. I don't want to be tied to some wireless carrier for data when I don't have to be. (And I work for AT&T!) I have WiFi at home, WiFi (public & private) at work and free WiFi at many of the other places I want to use it. Why would I want to PAY a wireless carrier for data access I MIGHT use and not be able to use the FREE WiFi I already have?
3) I want a larger screen, not the 320 x 320 (or WORSE 240 x 320) screen of the Treo or other phones, which are sometimes smaller in size even at the same resolution. I already wear reading glasses - I don't need to squint just read what's on the screen!

You hit the nail on the head re: the PDA is dead crowd. We're not asking for them NOT to have their Treos or whatever. We just want a decent PDA. And guess what, Palm wouldn't have to have a different PDA model for each carrier! We'd probably settle for two, maybe three devices.

Anyway, keep the faith!
Brent

Palm Vx --> Long wait --> Palm T|X

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
Rhauer @ 4/10/2007 9:48:16 PM # Q
I couldn't have said it anybetter.

Two Devices!!!!!!!! Big Screen, wifi etcccccc.

RE: My comments on last part of broadcast
twrock @ 4/14/2007 3:14:37 AM # Q
Colligan has always been a Handera smartphone guy....

Maybe "Handspring" is a little closer. If HandEra had made a smartphone, I'd probably still be using it.


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Reply to this comment

UMPC?

PenguinPowered @ 4/10/2007 12:53:24 PM # Q
There are many amusing hints in the article that suggest that Palm is developing a VoIP phone, er, I mean, a UMPC device to compete with the Nokia N800.

Of course, it is very amusing that Palm has been working on its own Linux "for years".



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC?
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 1:02:22 PM # Q
Do you really believe that? years? I noticed that also. Think they are able to keep a secret that long?

RE: UMPC?
PacManFoo @ 4/10/2007 1:06:21 PM # Q
They already have a device to compete with the N800, it's called the TX. Just keep improving the web capabilities of the TX and you've already blown the N800 out of the water.

PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP2000, MP2100
RE: UMPC?
Ryan @ 4/10/2007 1:18:08 PM # Q
I have a N800 as well and while it's other software leaves a lot to be desired, it's web browsing capabilities are phenomenal. That's due to three main things, the 800x480 screen, WiFI and the Opera browser.

It shouldn't be hard to Palm to configure something to exceed that given the rich software base they have.

RE: UMPC?
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 1:41:16 PM # Q
IMO the two biggest shortcomings of the N800 and its ilk (other than price) are the lack of ANY PIM functionality and size.

We know Palm has the first already licked and the trick to the second would lie in producing a device roughly the size of the LifeDrive (perhaps with a slightly larger LCD) in a thinner package while still maintaining a very capacious battery.

Perhaps now that Palm is transitioning the Treo line to the new slimline formfactor & battery of the 680/750, they will use the old Treo 650/700 style battery to power their "tablet" devices. I'd be more willing to put up with a Seidio 3200mah style "rumpshaker" battery + door on a Palmized N800 equivalent than I would on a 320x320 Treo!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Geez, what did Beers say over and over RIGHT HERE?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:22:43 PM # Q
>>>Do you really believe that? years? I noticed that also. Think they are able to keep a secret that long?

It WASN'T a secret. Beers said it over and over and over RIGHT HERE.

None of you wanted to BELIEVE.

Hey, Beers!
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 3:33:20 PM # Q
Remember that I STFU about whether or not you were right about Palm doing a Linuxed OS.

It's not because I was being respectful. Or even believed.

By that point I didn't *care* WTF Palm was up to.

Palm Fatigue got me.

Anyway, I'll step up and give you a hearty Congratulations for being RIGHT.

Now you eejits Out There make with the apologies.

RE: UMPC?
PenguinPowered @ 4/10/2007 5:27:33 PM # Q
Yes, I really believe that they've been working on it for more than 24 months (which would qualify, barely, as "years.")



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 6:02:19 PM # Q
When was the PSRC sale?

I think "Palm's" involvement in Linux dates from about then, more or less.

BTW, in one of his standalone presentations the CFO really derided the PalmSource effort - something along the line of "they really didn't come through" - which is tantamount to calling them unspeakables in the world of corporate words.

RE: UMPC?
PenguinPowered @ 4/10/2007 7:20:47 PM # Q
The sale was announced in early August '05.

PSRC bought CMS in December '04.

The rumor mill had mentioned Palm working on its own Linux even earlier than that.

I imagine Access will now place even less emphasis on PalmOS, as Palm is clearly going their own way and they have no other customer for POS on ALP.


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC?
cervezas @ 4/10/2007 8:27:47 PM # Q
The first leak about Palm "exploring partnerships that could let it use a tailored version of the Linux OS to run on its devices" was in Nov 04, one month before PalmSource acquired CMS and announced it was going to port the Palm OS to a Linux kernel:

http://news.com.com/PalmOne+ponders+OS+options/2100-1045_3-5438347.html?part=rss&tag=5438347&subj=news.1045.20

That article said "PalmOne has been quietly exploring operating systems to augment the Palm OS for some time" and turned out to be right in calling Palm's Windows Mobile move, which we later learned was a deal that was years in the making as well.

When Palm announced the Windows Mobile Treo in Sept 05 and was stone silent about the PalmSource/ACCESS ALP announcement last February, that's what got me seriously thinking the '04 article might have been right about the longstanding Linux plans, too.

Obviously, there's "exploring" and "experimenting" which may have gone on for a long time before any real product development but which can easily be talked about as part of the product development in retrospect. It would be interesting to know when Palm's Linux "explorations" turned into a definite decision to develop an OS product. There were spates of hiring around the time PSRC was acquired and again when Palm got the expanded development rights to Garnet. My guess is they pulled the trigger on productizing their Linux work when they lost the bidding war for PSRC.

Oh, and about the VoIP rumor... there were job postings back in January for Linux developers with VoWLAN/VoIP experience. GPS and LBS were specifically mentioned in job postings last month. If you keep your eye on the job boards at Palm you can learn quite a bit about what they're working on (which was the point of that article I wrote last May).

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: UMPC?
mikecane @ 4/11/2007 10:52:00 AM # Q
When did Colligan ascend the throne? Does everyone here think Colligan made the ultimate decision to Manhattan Project their own new OS?

RE: UMPC?
hkklife @ 4/11/2007 7:19:01 PM # Q
Let's see...Yankowski (God bless 'em) was CEO until fall '01, then Benhamou was there for approx. two years. Then Todd Bradley was CEO of Palm/PalmOne CEO from Oct '03 until Jan '05. Colligan became interim CEO at that point and was named permanent CEO in April or so of '05--wasn't he already acting as the president or VP of Palm Inc. by that time (ever since the Palm/PalmSource split)?

So you can speculate that his first action upon becoming interim CEO in '05 was to greenlight the Linux initiative which had heretofore been just in the "experimental" stages...but is ~2 years enough to cobble together a whole OS? Maybe he even gave it the go-ahead in '04 (more likely, based on the older links Beersie et al posted above).


http://www.palm.com/us/company/pr/2005/051605b.html

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2004/10/_this_morning_i.html


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: UMPC?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/11/2007 7:41:25 PM # Q
> ...but is ~2 years enough to cobble together a whole OS?...

Somewhere else around here I joked that PLAM had gotten their original code from Motorola.

Maybe it's not a joke?

Thus 2 years might work fine.

RE: UMPC?
PenguinPowered @ 4/11/2007 9:52:05 PM # Q
It's a joke. Moto isn't doing that well in Linux land, outside of Asia.

May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: UMPC?
hkklife @ 4/12/2007 1:13:37 AM # Q
Marty;

In your opinion, can ~2 years be time enough to pull together a servicable mobile Linux solution with some kind of Garnet functionality like Palm is trying to achieve?
How much of the heavy lifting for the Linux code base could Palm have farmed out to someone else and/or received from someone else (not Moto--anyone!)?


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: UMPC?
PenguinPowered @ 4/12/2007 1:36:46 AM # Q
The Linux bits they could job out to someone like MontaVista or Wind River, or even an independent contractor. Palm uses (formerly Intel now) Marvell Xscale processors and pretty standard off-the-shelf hardware in their devices so the OS proper bits could be well established by a team of 3-5 people in six months.

The real question is how much work they would want to put into compatibility when they did the Garnet emulator. A good enough job for their own PIMs would be easy to do in 6-12 months, so even if they didn't start on that until the OS port was done, that'd still leave them 6 months from feature freeze to ship.

I say that it's a slam dunk that they could have something at the end of this year if they really started no later than January '05.

However, if they were working on a Linux/Garnet combine that early, 2005 goes down as the weirdest year in my professional career. ;)


May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/12/2007 6:50:39 AM # Q
It is not that Motorola is doing well or not, it is that Motorola has been selling Linux-based phones, thus free phone-oriented source code to the asker, for years.

PALM would be stupid not to have grabbed what they could from an established seller of Linux-based phones and at least looked it over.

RE: UMPC?
PenguinPowered @ 4/12/2007 1:20:49 PM # Q
The part of Moto's stack that would be available through the GPL is exactly what you'd get if you picked up the Linux tree from kernel.org.

The parts that are interesting either run on the modem processor and aren't GPLed or run above the kernel in userland and aren't GPLed.



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: UMPC?
palmato @ 4/12/2007 2:00:34 PM # Q
Do you think their PIM application will run in the Garnet emulator or in some kind of native linux environment?
One point that isn't clear to me, is whether they they going to introduce a new api or use the same as garnet - plus palm customization. Which I would find a bit depressing ;-)

--------------------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?
RE: UMPC?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/12/2007 2:20:40 PM # Q
> ...exactly what you'd get if you picked up the Linux tree from kernel.org.

Is that right!? Wow - I never would have guessed that!

Note - I am (no longer!) an "OS guy" so don't follow kernel.org or its content, but would have assumed any generic kernel source available would be rather inefficient compared to one that actually had been tweaked and instantiated on power-starved phones...thus my "Get/got it from Motorola" running commentary.

Reply to this comment

Phone

JPT|X @ 4/10/2007 1:04:15 PM # Q
Is part of the reason they focus on phones rather than PDA's that there is a kickback of part of the money from continuing subscription fees to the hardware maker? Don't know if this is the case or not.

RE: Phone
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 2:27:05 PM # Q
A. Beersie is, indeed, TRULY vindicated right now. He really did hit the nail on the head for this 'un.

B. Where's TVoR? He SHOULD come out of retirement/exile and make at least ONE prognostication amidst all of this news.

C. Marty, would you care to kindly point out to the less-enlightened of us some of the most pertinent "amusing hints" dropped in the article/presentation?

D.Of COURSE there are kickbacks involved in selling phones instead of PDAs. Of course, when the dumbphone & smartphone markets have dried up in a few years, I'll expect a renewed push toward data-centric (ie no voice), cellular-enabled (think a Nintendo DS or PSP or PDA-type device) devices and more affordable but limited "feature" plans (Think a $15/month unlimited "gaming data" plan for a PSP or DS type gaming handheld or a $20/month streaming media only plan for a Zune type device). EVERYONE wants to cozy up with the carriers if it'll allow them to sell a new round of hardware and get even a tiny slice of the pay-for-content pie.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Naysayers

ballistic @ 4/10/2007 1:07:26 PM # Q
I guess this news shoots down these two statements:

PenguinPowered wrote:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130489

I believe that the facts are clear. Palm has bet on WinMobile and needs to say they haven't.

SeldomVisitor wrote:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130506

The CFO unambiguously said "no third platform for smartphones" in the context of PalmOS and Windows.


RE: Naysayers
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 2:00:48 PM # Q
Nope - somewhere in there was a qualification about timeframe.

The CEO =today= said "no third platform for smartphones until 2008".


RE: Naysayers
ballistic @ 4/11/2007 7:56:33 PM # Q
That "today" wasn't a qualifier, you were merely quoting what he said *that day*. Nice try, but pretty lame. You definitely spun that statement to proclaim that there would be no "third platform" which you concluded as meaning no Linux.

The CFO =just= said "no third platform" - there goes Linux!

Nah - he was quite clear in what he said. The context was PalmOS and Windows and Linux.

Note - that "No linux" easily could have been something like "No linux anytime soon" rather than "No Linus. Period".

But he said something like "Don't want to get into a third platform".


RE: Naysayers
SeldomVisitor @ 4/12/2007 6:54:04 AM # Q
You're not into reading entire comment sections, eh?

Well, I'll leave it as an exercise for the OTHER readers to read what I posted but may not have repeated each time I reposted the same thought.

And, in any case, I very MUCH stand by what I posted even if YOU can't find it - no linux-based smartphones this year, now confirmed by PALM within the last few days.

=======

Now a THINKING individual might ask:

== "WAITAMINUTE! They said without ambiguity that a Linux-based
== product (or products) were going to be released by the end of
== THIS year! What type of products are THOSE!!?"

but you can safely ignore that while you attempt to denigrate other posters.

RE: Naysayers
ballistic @ 4/14/2007 7:55:02 AM # Q
RE: Naysayers
twrock @ 4/14/2007 8:49:37 AM # Q
RE: Naysayers (and another thing)
twrock @ 4/14/2007 9:19:34 AM # Q
Oh, and thanks for digging up that link to the discussion back in February. I am very happy to say that I was wrong in fearing that "shore up that foundation" meant less than it turned out to. I am very pleased with this current announcement by Palm, no matter how negatively it ends up being spun by the detractors.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: On why it's good we can't edit posts in the news forum...
twrock @ 4/15/2007 2:41:15 AM # Q
You're not into reading entire comment sections, eh?

Ok, SeldomVistor, read this entire thread: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130360

Particularly note this quote, the fourth post in that thread: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130363
You said: "The CFO =just= said "no third platform" - there goes Linux!"

And further down in that thread, after David Beers disagreed with you and eloquently predicted exactly what just happened, I chimed in with this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130387

And you argued back with this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130393, clearly attempting to show me how I was wrong in what I just wrote (which fortunately for me was in agreement with what David had already written; I'm typically not smart enough to come up with this stuff on my own).

And finally at that point I ended my "discussion" with you by saying this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130396

Alternately, everyone could have just left the statement ("The CFO =just= said "no third platform" - there goes Linux!") unchallenged, but then it wouldn't have been any fun at all because we wouldn't have had anything to talk about and it possibly would have left the person who made the statement in the first place assuming that there were no other possible conclusions to draw from the evidence. (bold emphasis added)

Then the encore in all of that discussion was that it led to the next thread, started by ballistic, which from the more recent data/news we've heard just might give you even more opportunity to work on your "spin move". ("Palm Founder dislikes Windows software" http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130446)

So my question to you now is, why is it so hard for you just to say, "Turns out I was wrong about that."? Or is it somehow terribly important for you to present a "I-have-never-been-wrong" persona here on PIC?



Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: Naysayers
SeldomVisitor @ 4/15/2007 9:46:49 AM # Q
Why did you start so late and low with your quotes of what I posted when I EXPLICITLY said:

== "You're not into reading entire comment sections, eh?"

to that other poster?

Try again - Glance a little higher in that comment section...sheesh.

Or better yet...who cares?

PALM has now come out and said outright:

== "No Linux smartphones this year"

RE: Naysayers
twrock @ 4/15/2007 10:10:07 AM # Q
Why did you start so late and low with your quotes of what I posted when I EXPLICITLY said:

== "You're not into reading entire comment sections, eh?"

to that other poster?

Because http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130360 was the very first comment you posted! Did you even click on the links?!! Did you not scroll back up the page and notice that the thread I linked to was in fact the first comment you had made to the article? Do you not see that I can't go "up" any further without linking you to information that is completely irrelevant to this discussion because you hadn't posted anything yet? I EXPLICITLY did read the entire comments section. Obviously you didn't.

Or maybe this is just one more feeble attempt on your part to spin, deny and distract. Fine then. Keep it up. You're only proving my point even further. The evidence is all there. Go ahead and dig your hole even deeper.

So my question to you now is, why is it so hard for you just to say, "Turns out I was wrong about that."? Or is it somehow terribly important for you to present a "I-have-never-been-wrong" persona here on PIC?


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: Naysayers
SeldomVisitor @ 4/15/2007 11:10:18 AM # Q
No, actually I =didn't= click on your link because it didn't matter to me!

Lol!

Alright - it's obvious this is going nowhere fast because folks (YOU!) cannot follow backwards through message threads and links and are TOTALLY BIASED against reading what I'm posting rather than what you THINK I'm posting, so let's make it EXPLICIT!

=========

HERE's the link =I'm= talking about as posted by ballistic:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130506

That post of mine linked has timestamp:

== 2/27/2007 5:47:36 PM

Yet THIS:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130367

is the FIRST post I made on the topic of "no third platform" with timestamp:

== 2/21/2007 10:56:58 AM

a full =6= days earlier (same-article message area (earlier and up above...)) and THAT was fairly closely followed up by:

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130374

with timestamp:

== 2/21/2007 3:50:07 PM

in which I said:

== "...Nah - he was quite clear in what he said. The context was
== PalmOS and Windows and Linux.
==
== Note - that "No linux" easily could have been something like
== "No linux anytime soon" rather than "No Linus. Period".
==
== But he said something like "Don't want to get into a third platform"..."

And then shortly after that I posted once again:

== "Well...again..the "no third platform" words could indeed
== have been along the line of "no third platform for a year"
== or whatever..."

-- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130378

with timestamp:

== 2/21/2007 5:13:37 PM

At THAT point I stopped qualifying the words having (wrongly!) figured that anyone reading the message thread would have gotten the idea by then!

WRONGO!! HA HA HA!

So...I stand by what I posted entirely - I gave a link to the presentation by the CFO AND I gave a point in time where the CFO stated what he stated allowing the braindead to find what I was relaying from what the =CFO of PALM said= and, furthermore, that very same thought was OUTRIGHT stated in the PALM Analyst Day presentation where it was said "Linux by end of year; Linux smartphones NEXT year"!

====

BTW, it remains curious that folks are not discussing with HUGE ENTHUSIASM the FACT that PALM mentioned Linux was coming in something other than smartphones...THAT above all sure seems like a HOT TOPIC for discussion!

(that is, who gives a damn about Linux smartphones!? It's that Linux everything ELSE that is new and exciting!)


RE: Naysayers
twrock @ 4/15/2007 7:06:06 PM # Q
No, actually I =didn't= click on your link because it didn't matter to me!

Lol!


What I find funny about this is how convenient it is for you to not care about the things that prove you wrong. SV, you truly amaze me. You rip on me here for NOT going back to the beginning, which I DID. You did not. Then you relegate it to the "didn't matter" category. Ok if I use that line of argument in the future? Do I have to give you credit for "inventing" it?

You claim that I am "TOTALLY BIASED against reading what I'm posting rather than what you THINK I'm posting...." Say what? You wanted me to read the whole comments section, which I did and you apparently hadn't, and when I did and provided the links to you to show that I had exactly done that, you still want to try to call me "TOTALLY BIASED". Unbelievable!

The timestamp of this message http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130360, the first one you posted in response to that article, was 2/21/2007 9:47:41 AM. Since that is the link I provided above, how about you at least stop accusing me of not reading the "whole comments section"? To keep accusing me of that will real only succeed in making you look foolish.

You then proceed to do the very thing yourself that you accuse ballistic and me of doing. You promptly jump to the end and spin those statements into some meaning that all of your posts up to that point have contradicted. You are the one setting up the "rules" for this discussion. How about you hold to them yourself?

It should be obvious to you by now that the post in which you started out WRONG was http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130363 with a timestamp of 2/21/2007 10:05:41 AM. That's 18 minute after you first post. So as I ALREADY said above, that is the first post that even matters to this conversation.

David Beers disagrees with you. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130372
You disagree with him (notice that you started the comment with "Nah", a word that most English speakers equate to "No" which would indicate that you didn't agree). http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130374
David responds, this time with a bit "softer" stance. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130376
You respond with what appears to possibly be some hedging of you previous comments. (Maybe you are starting to think you might have it wrong?) http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130378
But then you come right back and make it clear that Palm will not be using Linux unless it is on the server side. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130379 You end that comment with this line: "About 38.30 in he says "only two [platforms] today are PalmOS and Windows Mobile"."
That's where I came in for the first time to suggest that you were wrong and David was right by way of explaining how I saw things. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130387 I will quote it here:

Sounds very much like there is no contradiction with what David Beers said above. At this point it is unknown if the future "Palm OS" will be running on a Linux kernel or not, but if not, I really don't understand why they'd purposefully hire Linux programers. I still don't think you can conclude that "there goes Linux" with any certainty at all; that's a big leap. "Palm OS" does not equal the kernel. Seems to me that all you can conclude that Palm will be using WinMob and something called "Palm OS". Maybe that says more about "not-ALP" than anything else. What kernel "Palm OS" will have is an unknown, but Linux make a lot of sense given the other information we have already heard/seen.

You promptly disagreed with me. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130393
Now, we can debate all sorts of things about what "no third platform for smartphones" means, but ... why?

To which I gave my final response to you in an attempt to show that you were the one who kept arguing for something that was wrong and that is why some of the rest of us kept responding. http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9243/#130396

So if you want this to stop this time, how about you quit digging your hole and get on with the "Looks like I was wrong" admission. It'd be so much easier.



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Time scale?

drbuzz0 @ 4/10/2007 1:17:53 PM # Q
Don't get me wrong. I know developing something like this is not fast or easy and I also know that putting a date on something too early-on is a bit dangerous (ahem... cough... cough... Microsoft).


But any word on how far along this is? Or if it's just early concept? If it's going to be expected to come out at any semi-predictable time?


We're all really itching for a revamped os... it's been a while....


Reply to this comment

A Troubling Quote From The Slides

mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:29:08 PM # Q
>>>It’s about making our lives
better, not features and technology

Who let that in?!!?

Features and technology -- when done *right* -- *equal* making lives better.

RE: A Troubling Quote From The Slides
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:32:07 PM # Q
Another one:

>>>It’s better to have someone else say you’re great

Well they haven't had THAT in fekkin YEARS!!

RE: A Troubling Quote From The Slides
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:40:09 PM # Q
Slide 81. It shows it take SIX QUARTERS -- 1.5 YEARS! -- to get a smartphone to customers!

Reply to this comment

Coleman? What Coleman?

mikecane @ 4/10/2007 2:32:44 PM # Q
I see some people are attributing things to a Bill Coleman.

I guess I've let too much slip by me in my disgust over Palm.

Fill me in on this Coleman guy and what all of you think he's done/doing.

RE: Coleman? What Coleman?
SeldomVisitor @ 4/10/2007 3:57:01 PM # Q
Bill Coleman - member of the BoD of PALM as of last year about this time. Formerly CEO of BEAS (*) of web services fame. PALM stressed web services (of anything they "stressed") during the conference today.

========

(*) BEAS recently released a PR about THEIR option backdating problems and, without explicitly saying so, said that the former CEO was the culprit and might be in deep doo-doo:

-- http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070214/sfw092.html?.v=85

RE: Coleman? What Coleman?
mikecane @ 4/10/2007 5:06:02 PM # Q
Hmph.

Don't know that he being on the BoD means anything other than oversight. Directors don't traditionally get into the actual *running* of things.

Then again, Apple has Google on its BoD ... and iPhone has Google Maps. Yet has *YahooMail* built-in.

See?

Reply to this comment

They mention more Garnet-based unitS. What other than the 755p?

hkklife @ 4/10/2007 4:29:45 PM # Q
Well, the 755p is certainly no longer a secret. We just are awaiting carrier availability, pricing, and any final spec tweaks.

The 680 is out and doing nicely. I'd imagine Palm might release a minor ROM update for it later this year and maybe try to tweak the lag or the BT performance a bit more.

The 700p is very, very obviously EOL'd.

So what additional Garnet-based productS (as in plural) could Palm be speaking of?

I envision 3 scenarios here:


A. The 755p is the end of the line for FrakenGarnet in its current from and we shouldn't read too much into the plural "products" mentioned in this morning's presentation. (This is the most likely scenario)

B. The 755p will come out in May/June ad then Palm will release a final PDA for hte back to school crowd later this summer. Palm could possibly merge the Z22 & T|E2 into a single $100-$120ish mp3-playin' PDA to keep the retail PDA market going another year. (This is much less likely but since they announced PDAs are still profitable you can never rule out a very mild refresh)

C. Another POS Treo could be in the works. But wouldn't it mostly be redundant? It'd almost certainly have to be CDMA-based since tje general concensus is already that the 680 is a minor improvement at best over the 650. (This seems highly unlikely)

What could Palm add easily & cheaply to the 680/750 formfactor under FrankenGarnet 5.4.9?
-Wi-fi? Too much Garnet hacking and too much carrier opposition.
-320x480? Too costly to retool the Treo housing design.
-SDHC? Possibly, but I think Palm would rather retreat to the safety of the less capacious miniSD for the forseeable future.
-Integrated GPS? Always a possibility but I really don't think there's a mass market for such a beast running POS. Besides, it'd probably be very unstable.

Maybe an ultra low-end "free w/ contract" GSM Treo with a 160x160 screen, 32mb of RAM and a 200mhz CPU?

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: They mention more Garnet-based unitS. What other than the 755p?
buckeyetex315 @ 4/10/2007 4:53:07 PM # Q
My thoughts on screen size -

1) On page 76 of the presentation showing the various system components, they have a 320x320, a SMALLER 320x320 and a 240x320 screen. NO 320x480 screen. Looks to me like Palm's following the smaller is better route for smartphones.

2) Those are there reference designs GOING FORWARD, so it looks like any future 320x480 device is unlikely, or just a holdover from the TX for maybe one last spin if that. The reluctance of third party developers to support 320x480 in recent releases (ex: pTunes newest skins) supports the idea that Palm won't offer any more 320x480 devices at least in either the Treo or the current PDA lines.

Maybe Hawkins' secret third product line will hold some hope.

JMHO,
Brent

Palm Vx --> Long wait --> Palm T|X

RE: They mention more Garnet-based unitS. What other than the 75
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 8:21:40 PM # Q
And you see, THAT is very wrong.

320x480 a great screen size and there is no logical reason to abandon it.
Same for handhelds.

Phrases like " maybe 1 last pda..." are bad. People should be talking about improving, innovating and growing the handheld division. NOT praying and hoping for '1 last device".

RE: They mention more Garnet-based unitS. What other than the 755p?
hkklife @ 4/10/2007 8:40:53 PM # Q
Vamp;

I am as big of a PDA advocate as anyone else here. I still find smartphones (especially Treos) horribly crippled in numerous areas--processor speed, RAM, wi-fi, screen size & resolution etc.

And I don't like anything that particularly needs a recurring monthly bill to gain maximum effectiveness (especially with Verizon's prices & policies!)

I am HOPING for a PDA renaissance. Yet I am also a realist and KNOW that at best we may get one or two final low-end retail-focused PDAs out of Palm. In all likelihood Palm will just let the current 3 models fade away and pull the plug on them this fall.

I'd LOVE to get Colligan or one of the other Palm suits and drill them relentlessly about some of the Treo design decisions/compromises and why they continue to smother the remaining life out of the handheld market.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: They mention more Garnet-based unitS. What other than the 75
twrock @ 4/15/2007 5:03:35 AM # Q
In all likelihood Palm will just let the current 3 models fade away and pull the plug on them this fall.

I'm not disagreeing that this is possible, but I still think it would be very foolish of Palm to do so. And I'm not saying this because I have some sort of "aversion" to converged devices; I just won't buy anything in the current Treo line. Give me a TX with a cell radio at a reasonable price, and, call it whatever you want, I'll buy one.

But back to my point. How many million PDA's did Palm sell last year? Yes, they'd prefer that everyone buy a Treo instead, but they shouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face. So they still get a tidy little sum of money (revenue) by keeping the PDA line alive. Colligan himself has pointed out what many of us have said, that it is a source of new users who subsequently upgrade to Treos. And until they finally put wifi in their phones, it's still the only POS device with it built in. I think it'd be foolish to concede the PDA market to other companies when it serves a significant purpose and it keeps others from taking away that base.

The current three tiered PDA line-up is almost "right". But they need to give the T3 holdouts and TX users a "TX2" with a mic, LED and vibrating alarms (all of which Dimitry G. put into a TX already), and you should be able to let that device go for a couple more years without even thinking about it. R&D? None needed. Just do it! Keep the TE2 and Z22 almost as they are. But if they could somehow afford to put out a "Z33" with multimedia support (adding no-brainer computer-side software to get the content over to the "new" flash memory card slot), and keep the price extremely low, they could probably go to a two-tiered system and keep those people coming in the door.

Me? I'll take either that TX2 or the TreoX (large screened, keyboardless smartphone), whichever comes first. However, maybe the "secret third business" will change the landscape significantly enough that this sort of discussion will be meaningless very soon.

Oh, and one more thing, Palm, you've got to demand better from the company supplying the digitizers for that new TX2/TreoX. Slide #62 of your presentation says that your "unconventional thinking" will result in:

-Positive customer experience
-Decreased product returns
-Greater intimacy with the customer
-Increased customer profitability

How about a little more "conventional" quality control? That'd result in all of the above for me.




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I would love to ask Colligan this easy question, live.

VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 7:56:28 PM # Q
Someone should ask Colligan this very simple question at any next conference call:


"Considering that you and Mr. Brown repeatedly stated that despite a disgraceful 0$ R&D investment in handhelds, and the fact that PDAs are still profitable, is it that difficult/expensive for Palm to release 2 or more handheld devices per year? Isn't Palm hurting investors by turning its nose on 'free money', and is this action not fueled by an unreasonable inexplicable misguided disdain towards handhelds, which only a few years ago almost represented 800 000 000$ in revenue? How do you explain this Mr. Colligan and will you resign if you are not prepared to 'grow the business' to its full potentional by detaching yourself from a '1 trick Pony Treo' philosophy?



RE: I would love to ask Colligan this easy question, live.
VampireLestat @ 4/10/2007 8:28:51 PM # Q
Putting anger aside for a second, I must say that I was very very very pleased to hear Colligan say that they are committed to deeply developing Palm OS Linux in the long term. He pointed out that they would not be investing so heavily in this new OS if they were not going to make it a core part of their business.

Having a new powerful Palm OS based on an open source Linux core is very smart.
1) it makes Palm less dependent on MS.
2) Palm can threaten to drop WM if MS refuses to negotiate decent license fees
3) Being Palm exclusive, if its a success, and it will imho, they get 100% of the profits.
4) Palm has full control over the programming of the OS.

I know it made sound impossible now, but with Palm OS Linux, I believe Palm should start to pull away from MS and eventually stop selling WM devices. They should slowly introduce Palm OS Linux devices to companies.

RE: I would love to ask Colligan this easy question, live.
PenguinPowered @ 4/10/2007 10:38:17 PM # Q
If you use Linux as your "core OS", you don't have full control over the programming of it.

It'll be interesting to see how Nokia and Palm compete to influence the Linux community and how this all plays with the dozen other Linux-on-a-cellphone projects

May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: I would love to ask Colligan this easy question, live.
mikecane @ 4/11/2007 11:14:42 AM # Q
Forget Nokia. They have nothing.

That abomination of theirs has been out for at least 1.5 years and the amount of apps compared to the original Pilot in the same amount of time is a scandal.

Every time they "update" (downgrade!!!) that crappy OS, all the apps *break*.

Palm has a real shot. I hope they don't blow it.

The real question you should be asking: ACCESS vs Palm.

Reply to this comment

Linux isn't even out the door...

cbowers @ 4/10/2007 11:28:04 PM # Q
...and we're already forking the OS.
This will be great for market share. Play mix and match with company names and logos, and now we can't agree on the replacement for Garnet.
What will this do for app and device compatibility...
Will a universal app be even possible for developers?


RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
mikecane @ 4/11/2007 11:03:23 AM # Q
Forget universal apps!

I'd like to see separate FrankenGarnet/PalmLinux devices.

FG for low-cost PDAs. PL for higher-end, larger-sized web access (and probably Treo too; but probably not this year).

I think that's what Palm will do.

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
zullnero @ 4/11/2007 4:42:29 PM # Q
First, it doesn't sound like they're forking the OS. ALP is the property of Access, not Palm. Forget about ALP at this point, barring some unforeseen surprise, Palm has already forgotten about ALP. ALP will be targeted to run on devices shipped from companies like Sharp, HTC, etc., if Access is lucky.

Second, if ALP is true to THEIR word, applications built to run on PalmOS that are up to standards will run on ALP. If Palm is being true to their word that this is really PalmOS running on top of a Linux kernel/core, then theoretically applications that follow standards "should" still work.

At this point, the best anyone can do is to think of this as just the "real" next version of the PalmOS (if you can put all that stuff from Palmsource out of your memory).

Palm III->Palm Vx->Palm m505->Palm m515->Tungsten T->Tapwave Zodiac II->Treo 700p

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
sungod @ 4/12/2007 1:13:46 AM # Q
After PalmLinux has come to manket there will still be a place for Garnet in low end smart phones & devices like the Z22 for a wile.
If palm adds SD expantion a headphone jack & a GB of storage then sexes it up a bit the Z22 could easily be sold with Ptunes as a sweet mp3 player

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
mikecane @ 4/12/2007 8:21:11 AM # Q
>>>Second, if ALP is true to THEIR word, applications built to run on PalmOS that are up to standards will run on ALP. If Palm is being true to their word that this is really PalmOS running on top of a Linux kernel/core, then theoretically applications that follow standards "should" still work.

Well, PalmOS 5.x (whatever it is *right now*). Past that, there won't be any PalmOS emulation -- because the *true* PalmOS will be the one Palm itself issues. And I doubt they will be shaaaaring with ACCESS any bit of it. (Of course, not having studied that contract they have with ACCESS, I could be wrong. Lawyers, go fight over this...)

Anyway:

1) Will any ACCESS ALP products come out in the US?

2) Who among PalmOS users would be dumb enough to buy one now?

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
sungod @ 4/12/2007 9:10:05 AM # Q
1. We are just going to have to wait and see.

2. I would depending on the hardware it runs on. I prefer candy bar phones but I could live with a flip phone. O2 have a few good looking ones (I assume they're HTC) but I am dubious of their build quality after the amount of Atoms we got back for repair at work.
That teamed with a T|X replacement would be pretty good in my book.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
SeldomVisitor @ 4/12/2007 9:13:52 AM # Q
Hmmmm...I vaguely remember the ACCESS FAQ about the licensing said something about a need for compatibility for the name "PalmOS" to be used, yet PALM has acquired the name "PalmOS"...hmmm...luv them lawyers!

Wonder what the case s NOW?


RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
Surur @ 4/18/2007 6:24:48 AM # Q
O2 Asia does not use HTC anymore. The XDA Atom's are by Quanta.

Surur

They said I only argued for the sake of arguing, but after an hour I convinced them they were wrong...
Hey!! I made associate writer at PDA247. Come see my nattering over there!!
www.clieuk.co.uk/wm.shtml

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...and a BIG surprise!
SeldomVisitor @ 4/18/2007 6:35:11 AM # Q
> ...QUANTA...

Are they the same one in the deal with Asustek? Or was that Asustek with Dell?

=========

OH MY GAWD - while checking THAT lookie what I found!:

== "HTC to ship Google handsets by year-end

-- http://www.digitimes.com/telecom/a20070417PD213.html

PalmOS? What's that?

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
cervezas @ 4/18/2007 2:14:30 PM # Q
Whatever happened to "be careful out there"?

Undisclosed handset component makers commenting on the software and branding strategy of products from Google? Riiiiight.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Linux isn't even out the door...
SeldomVisitor @ 4/18/2007 3:37:58 PM # Q
Component makers supply ODMs.

Reply to this comment

Go back! To cobalt

uuhh @ 4/12/2007 5:17:49 AM # Q
"OpenSource technology" - seems like Colligan & Co orgazming on these words

RE: Go back! To cobalt
mikecane @ 4/12/2007 8:23:56 AM # Q
Nokia did. Did them zero good too.

Reply to this comment

PalmOS on Linux vs. ALP OS

twrock @ 4/17/2007 10:08:34 PM # Q
Maybe this was discussed and answered already, but I'm slow and I haven't figured it out. So here goes.

What essentially will be the differences between Palm's Linux based OS vs. what ACCESS is doing? Considering the wording of the contract between Palm and ACCESS regarding the rights to Garnet (particularly the part of how Palm must maintain "compatibility" in how they implement it), will Palm end up doing essentially the same type of implementation of "Garnet on Linux" that ALP is doing or something completely different in design? From a developers standpoint, how deep will the "access" to Linux go?

I also think it is interesting that this time around, Palm is not only not trying to market the OS to other hardware vendors, but they won't license it to anyone else.


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RE: PalmOS on Linux vs. ALP OS
tankute @ 5/4/2007 8:03:59 AM # Q
Probably only the flavor. Oh and IP of course :)

I've been using palm since the IIIx, now on a treo 650 - which I see no reason to change until someone comes up with a device that can sync with something -anything- other than Outlook. I love the wealth of software on the Palm, but almost half of what keep on my Treo are patch stuff that should have been included on the preferences panel in the first place - what, no ringtone support? Why should I need an additional s/w to boost the volume, so I can hear what the other person is saying in a semi-crowded place? What about Butler? Isn't this supposed to be an all-dancing all-singing "smartphone"?

Probably I should never have abandoned the pda/dumb phone combo.

If linux can mean I can sync with, say, Sunbird (or Palm Desktop) and not have to put up with a crash prone O/S it really doesn't matter to me who provides it.

IIIx -> T|T -> Treo650

RE: PalmOS on Linux vs. ALP OS
sungod @ 5/4/2007 7:29:45 PM # Q
I would go one step further on the open source desktop software. Sunbird for my contacts.
Keep Thunderbird and VersaMail/it's replacement synced.
Openoffice on my desktop with Doc's2go now(read someday) supporting ODF.
This would make me a very happy camper.

How good are cargo pants, they're a gadget lovers best friend.
Reply to this comment

Motorola just put on a show the equal of the iPhone presentation

SeldomVisitor @ 5/15/2007 11:23:44 AM # Q
Motorola just "introduced" a variety of new/enhanced phones (like stereo music players, etc).

Lots of Linux/Java talk.

Lots of talk about programmable user interfaces so owners can get to THEIR fave apps with a click or two.

Also introduced two new Qs with ultra-fast data transfer, etc.

No idea what any of this is gonna cost, but the show was cool.

Heads Up, Next Great Thang Expectors...you may be in for a letdown...

And released a gajillion PRs about it
SeldomVisitor @ 5/15/2007 11:37:04 AM # Q
This link:

-- http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=MOT

will be good for a day before the new PRs scroll off the bottom - read 'em soon!

Reply to this comment

Treo 750 WM6

warocker1 @ 5/29/2007 8:41:37 PM # Q
I was just told by Palm tech support that the Treo 750 will not be upgraded to WM6! This is contrary to the many stories I have read.
Reply to this comment

BeOS?

kbw @ 7/2/2007 7:12:32 AM # Q
Whatever happened to BeOS?

I thought it would have been more suitable for small devices than Linux. There is the small problem of device drivers, but I wouldn't have thought this was a show stopper for a company like Palm.

If Palm have no use for BeOS, could they consider putting it in the public domain?

RE: BeOS?
TreoAnon @ 7/2/2007 10:25:26 AM # Q
BeOS was one of the PalmSource killers. The OS was a commercial flop and PalmSource made the bad decision to buy the flop and put the people responsible for it in charge of software development for Palm OS 6 (Cobalt), which was then killed when it became a commercial flop. Then came ALP, and then Access bought PalmSource, and since then very little has been heard of BeOS, Cobalt or ALP.

Based on published reports, Palm has never had anything to do with BeOS or ALP, and doesn't seem to have much to do with the former PalmSource organization.

BeOS lives on FOREVER in the HEART of Cobalt! ;-O
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/2/2007 3:51:15 PM # Q
http://www.beincorporated.com/

Ask Palm why they paid their old drinking buddy from their Apple Days, JL "Imbécile" Gassée $11 million for Be's rotting carcass in 2001.


"In 1996, Apple Computer decided to abandon Copland, the project to rewrite and modernize the Macintosh operating system. BeOS had many of the features Apple sought, and they offered to buy Be for $120 million, later raising its bid to $200 million, but--despite estimates of Be's total worth at approximately $80 million--Gassée held out for $400 million, which Apple refused to meet. Apple went on to purchase NeXT, the company their former CEO Steve Jobs had earlier left Apple to found. NeXTSTEP was used as the basis for their new operating system, Mac OS X."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Gass%C3%A9e

GREED IS A BAD THING, Jean-Louis...



TVoR

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Mobile Platform

parvez2100 @ 5/26/2008 4:50:18 AM # Q
I bought a cell phone. I can brows wapsite by the mobile. But I don’;t know the platform of the mobile. even I don't have the manufacturer details. Can any one inform me how can I know the platform of my mobile.

Parvez
+8801912263311
parvezinfo@gmail.com

RE: Mobile Platform
SeldomVisitor @ 5/26/2008 6:51:06 AM # Q
Google?

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