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Comments on: Palm Officially Introduces the Foleo

FoleoPalm has officially announced the Foleo, its first smartphone companion product. The Foleo has a large screen and full-size keyboard with which to view and edit email and office documents residing on a smartphone. Edits made on Foleo automatically are reflected on its paired smartphone and vice versa. The device stays in sync via a bluetooth connection and it also includes a built-in Wi-Fi radio for general Internet connectivity.
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Hmmmmm....

rcartwright @ 5/30/2007 1:54:03 PM # Q
At first blush I am pretty underwhelmed. The price will tell the tale for me, but so far it looks way too big.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: Hmmmmm....
potter @ 5/30/2007 2:04:14 PM # Q
rcartwright @ 5/30/2007 1:54:03 PM wrote
The price will tell the tale for me, but so far it looks way too big.

From previous article:
U.S. availability for Foleo begins this summer with pricing expected to be $499 after an introductory $100 rebate.


RE: Hmmmmm....
nybble @ 5/30/2007 3:08:23 PM # Q
Underwhelmed is not the word. This is crazy talk from Palm and Hawkins. What thing is even remotely revolutionary here? Seriously.

This reminds me a bit of the first wave of WinCE based laptops in the late 90's that touted instant on and fast access to applications. Or it reminds me, you know, of laptops.

http://comments.deasil.com/2007/05/30/palm-foleo-meh/

RE: Hmmmmm....
rcartwright @ 5/30/2007 4:34:47 PM # Q
$450.00 price-by itself not a deal breaker (BTW, thanks for the pointer I was in a hurry when I first scanned the artice)

No touch screen/tablet feature-all I can say to this is WTF!

Size- as a 40 something attorney I have stayed away from the Treo till a few weeks ago because of small screen size, no WiFi and dislike for the thumb board. Right now I use a TX/Treo 680 in somewhat the same way as Palm sees the Foleo/smartphone pairing. Sync is a kludge and seamless sync has some appeal for me. I would submit that for the segment of the population that can't really see the small screen of a smartphone, this has some merit. Of course, the people who say I already have a laptop, I would respond as some others have that if its as light as advertised and as fast as advertised and if it has some built in flash drive, then there might be a market for it.

Alas, I may well not be part of that market.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: Hmmmmm....
fishtastic @ 5/30/2007 5:14:29 PM # Q
Hurray, Palm is saved.

This will sell in the literally tens of millions. Time for the Palm board to order more ivory back scratchers.

Er No...

Oh dear. I can't believe this was what Palm had up their sleeve. I can't help being reminded of the OLPC and that doesn't cost $4XX. Very poor show, Palm. You never listen, you never learn.

Bye Palm

Fish

RE: Hmmmmm....
scstraus2 @ 5/30/2007 9:33:21 PM # Q
You know what, if it had an e-ink display and really good battery life measured in days, I'd go for it. I need something to replace my paper notebook and magazines that I carry everywhere.

But as it is, I just think it's too small of a niche. I already must carry my laptop for work, the functionality in this doesn't come close to replacing it, so why would I waste space on it? It really doesn't make sense. I suppose some extremely casual users could have some use for it, but I think they've carved a very small niche with this product.

Palm: Do this with e-ink and a touch screen a-la the Irex Iliad (but with the battery life of the Sony Reader), and you've got a customer. Otherwise you are going down a well trodden path of stripped down laptops, internet only devices, email only devices, web-tv, etc. I suppose people think that they are going to get a million grandmas online with these devices, but that never seems to happen. They just don't fit the need for the rest of us.

RE: Hmmmmm....
painted_dog @ 5/30/2007 10:41:13 PM # Q
scstraus2 wrote:
"You know what, if it had an e-ink display and really good battery life measured in days, I'd go for it. I need something to replace my paper notebook and magazines that I carry everywhere.

But as it is, I just think it's too small of a niche. I already must carry my laptop for work, the functionality in this doesn't come close to replacing it, so why would I waste space on it? It really doesn't make sense. I suppose some extremely casual users could have some use for it, but I think they've carved a very small niche with this product."

...i absolutely agree.

-painted dog

Palm FOOLeo®: Fool me twice, shame on me. I won't get FOOLeoed...
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/1/2007 5:37:36 AM # Q
March 30, 2007 will be remembered as The Day Palm Died.

When I first saw one of these, I thought it was actually just a sick joke. An elaborate in-house April Fool's joke. TreoMan assured me it was real. That was the day I finally gave up on Palm. The FOOLeo® is a product that needlessly diverted attention and resources from Palm's core products, resulting in fatal stagnation of both the Treo and Palm's traditional PDA lineups. Palm is too small to spread its (severely limited) talent around, especially on redundant designs. This company is so clueless that there is no way they will ever recover from the burden of being run by utterly IDIOTIC LEECHES that only care about plundering and parasitizing the company until the very end. Most parasites are smart enough to ensure that don't kill their hosts. Not Palm's management. These bloodsuckers have bled the company dry as they've continued to collect paychecks and cash in massive stock options.

The FOOLeo® is an answer to a question no one is asking. Let's see: Almost as big and almost as expensive as a Real Windows device, yet unable to run Real Windows apps? Break me off a piece of that! I'll take twenty! Any device much larger than the Nokia N800 that lacks Real Windows is pointless in this day of ever-improving Windows UMPC, Real Windows micro laptops and smartphones. The FOOLeo® niche simply does not exist. And organisms without a niche invariable die quickly.

Eventually it will be leaked that long ago Palm knew this product was doomed. The problem was that so much time + resources had already been wasted on it that by the time someone finally stepped in and said, "W T F is going on here? This is utter crap that will never sell." no one had the cojones to pull the plug on the project in 2005 when they should have. So now we have the latest equivalent of the Palm i705/DUNGSTEN T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt. As with Cobalt (PalmOS 6), failure to quickly amputate a gangrenous limb (product) will be remembered as the coup de grace that (mercifully?) ended Palm's existence.

What Palm should have released was a simple clamshell "PalmTop®" design along the lines of a CLIE UX50. With a 4 inch screen. Preferrably OLED. In 2005. With a COMPLETE software suite, including email, VPN, NetFront browser, PDF viewer, Word/Excel/Powerpoint-compatible suite. Keep It Simple, Stupid. The FOOLeo® with its current specs may have been a viable product category 4 or 5 years ago when I had urged Palm's product managers to consider a small PalmOS laptop with the simplicity of the AlphaSmart Dana. The key would have been to adhere to the KISS principle and not try to add features that the company's engineers were too clueless to easily implement. Palm is too talentless a company to be trying to reinvent the wheel itself. The FOOLeo® is the hardware equivalent of Cobalt: an unfinished, fundamentally flawed idea that is arriving 2 year too late to matter and will result in the death of the company. Maybe Palm should offer the FOOLeo® in a Special Edition Cobalt color?

The only questions that now remain are these: Now that it has finally been revealed that Emperor Hawkins Has No Clothes and that the Secret Third Business (STB) was a sham all along, who will buy Palm? What value does Palm offer a potential suitor? What assets do Palm have in their portfolio that a company big enough to purchase Palm couldn't purchase cheaper elsewhere or easily copy/develop for themselves?

Palm's "assets":
- A dead PDA lineup that hasn't seen significant improvements (or even a slightly refreshed new model) in years.
- A rapidly-aging set of bulky, shoddily-built smartphones that haven't seen significant improvements made to a 4 year old design. (There isn't much in the latest Treos that wouldn't have been in the 2003 Handspring Treo 600 had Handspring not been living hand-to-mouth + on the verge of bankruptcy when the Treo 600 was originally released.
- A laughable FOOLeo® product that - BY DEFINITION - has no target market that exists outside of Hawkins' dreams. (It's sad to see Hawkins embarassing himself trying to pimp the FOOLeo®. Remember the rhetoric we previously were subjected to re: the i705/DUNGsten T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt? It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.)
- The phone numbers of HTC, Solectron and Inventec.
- Rights to rickety old FrankenPalmOS and the freedom to continue adding more bugs/maggots to the OS until the PalmOS corpse finally putrefies.
- Several hundred million $$$ in cash.
- The Palm and Treo names


"Who's gonna bid it at a billion dollar bill? Five, will you beat it on a billion and five, bid it on a billion and five, a billion and five. Who's gonna bid it at a billion and five dollar bill?"

If PalmSource and Chrysler (twice!) can get sold, Palm has a chance. It all boils down to how greedy the company's board is. Kinda hard to bluff when everyone at the table knows the cards you're holding are utter crap, isn't it, Eric?

TVoR
Copyright, 2007
TVoR, Inc.

RE: Hmmmmm....
SeldomVisitor @ 6/5/2007 8:36:01 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

Third business.

averageguy @ 5/30/2007 1:56:29 PM # Q
palm is making laptops?

m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
RE: Third business.
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 2:06:15 PM # Q
I wonder if there's any competition in that sector?

RE: Third business.
cervezas @ 5/30/2007 2:22:04 PM # Q
I see where they are going with this. With a decent enough third-party developer ecosystem it could even work. The smartphone is supposed to become the "soul pad" of the new personal computer: the central repository for all your critical data around which everything else is just input/output devices. And I do think that's where personal computing will go.

But out of the box... I don't know. Is the lead solution on this thing--email--really going to be enough to make someone who doesn't carry a laptop around say "I need this thing"?

The software looks beautiful and simple. And the instant-on, instant-off aspect is more important than I think many people give it credit. I was really hoping we'd have a touchscreen. I can see developing some great business software that syncs between this and a smartphone. But I need Palm to get people to buy these first, and I'm not seeing the market driver here.

This is going to look to shareholders like Palm is trying to go head-to-head with Microsoft. And it's going to look that way because that's exactly what Palm is doing!

Wow.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Third business.
PenguinPowered @ 5/30/2007 2:27:16 PM # Q
There's no there, there. There's probably more processing power in the foleo than in the smartphone, even if foleo is only using the same chip, and it has room for a bigger battery. Throw in an evdo card and you don't need the phone.

On the other hand, people who want bigger keyboards and displays than their smartphones supply will want more of everything and will go for laptop once they're stuck carrying the extra baggage anyway.

UMPCs will blow this thing away, or the market for it simply doesn't exist.



May You Live in Interesting Times

RE: Third business.
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 2:38:20 PM # Q
I think LifeDrive II more than adequately describes this.

RE: Third business.
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 2:41:52 PM # Q
>>>UMPCs will blow this thing away, or the market for it simply doesn't exist.

2008 will bring:
http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl

Foleo. Flopio is more like it!

Hey, you Nokia N800 users. This gonna make you switch? Thought not!

Why would I want to shell out $500-$600 bucks for something that looks like it was ripped off from HPs old sub-subnotebook (I can't recall the model now; someone will dig it up somewhere) and has far less capability than a notebook that costs maybe 1.5-2x as much and can do, minimally, A HUNDRED TIMES MORE?

My Reaction To Palm’s New Foleo Device
http://tinyurl.com/2wxw4s

Next!

BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?

RE: Third business.
dukat @ 5/30/2007 4:53:30 PM # Q
Sorry, even if I'm repeating myself, this product just cries out for more accurate names: Flopio / Flopeo as you already mentioned, but more: Forgetteo, Fooleo, Noleo, or even No-Treo.

Thanks Palm, at least we have something to giggle at your funeral ;-)

IIIe -> m505 -> T3 -> Treo650 -> Treo680

RE: Third business.
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:42:36 PM # Q
You can Fooleo Somemeo Peopleo Somemeo Time.

But can't Fooleo Me!

RE: Third business.
cervezas @ 5/30/2007 5:55:46 PM # Q
You can Fooleo Somemeo Peopleo Somemeo Time.

But can't Fooleo Me!

Who could do that better than yourself, Mike?

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Third business.
painted_dog @ 5/30/2007 10:44:07 PM # Q
mikecane wrote:
"BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?"

..separately, i would've expected the Foleo to be listed under Accessories ;-)

-painted dog

RE: Third business.
rpa @ 5/30/2007 11:10:59 PM # Q
a new version of HP's old Omnibook??

rpa
RE: Third business.
rmhurdman @ 5/31/2007 7:45:29 AM # Q
The fact that Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager as a category adds more fuel to the speculation that the LifeDrive really was Hawkins' third business. Until it flopped.
I wonder how many flops Palm can sustain?

RE: Third business.
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 8:02:44 AM # Q
Yup yup yup.

RE: Third business.
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:10:20 PM # Q
>>>Who could do that better than yourself, Mike?

Go suck on your Nokia. And swallow. And hopefully choke.

RE: Third business.
Haber @ 5/31/2007 4:44:07 PM # Q
EPOC and Palm-size PC. Oh, wait, EPOC died when almost everyone could afford to go out and buy laptops, and Palm-size PC bombed. I'm sure a third go at a non-standard system and OS with extremely limited capabilities and an absurdly high price point (for $499, you can buy a real laptop) will magically work this time around. After all, it says "Palm" on it.

RE: Third business.
Haber @ 5/31/2007 4:45:50 PM # Q
EPOC > Psion

RE: Third business.
Haber @ 5/31/2007 4:52:03 PM # Q
The advertising on the Palm website is shilling the Foleo as something to use with your Treo. I am not going to buy a Treo and a Foleo, and I don't think anyone but the most rabid Palm fan would. People are going to use their laptops, not a Foleo. The original Palms succeeded because they integrated so well with existing PCs. The market is not so radically different now that Palm can get away with selling Treos that are effectively mobile internet access devices, and sell a Foleo that serves as an in between Treo conduit, when you have your PC that is far far more capable than being a simple Treo add-on.

RE: Third business.
Stan Wayne @ 5/31/2007 10:18:29 PM # Q
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 2:41:52 PM #

>>>UMPCs will blow this thing away, or the market for it simply doesn't exist.

2008 will bring:
http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl

Foleo. Flopio is more like it!

Hey, you Nokia N800 users. This gonna make you switch? Thought not!

Why would I want to shell out $500-$600 bucks for something that looks like it was ripped off from HPs old sub-subnotebook (I can't recall the model now; someone will dig it up somewhere) and has far less capability than a notebook that costs maybe 1.5-2x as much and can do, minimally, A HUNDRED TIMES MORE?

My Reaction To Palm’s New Foleo Device
http://tinyurl.com/2wxw4s

Next!

BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?


Did you notice the lifdrive is no longer for sale on Palm's web site? Any idea's what it means?

Reply to this comment

Budget play?

DrewT3 @ 5/30/2007 2:05:00 PM # Q
It looks like this is a low cost laptop. It reportedly weights 2 lbs, so my p1610 with Windows XP is just as portable. So what advantage does the Folio have over my p1610?

- Instant on vs. my 10 second resume from hibernation. Not a big deal when you have to set it up on a surface to type anyway.

- Sync with the Treo's documents and email. My email is always on the server anyway, I just access it via IMAP. So I see no advantage there. It would allow me to keep master copies of documents on the Treo if I want to.

- Price. Folio costs $500, my p1610 cost $1600. That is a big difference.

So the only real advantage is a lower price. For that lower price you lose Windows application compatibility and the ability to use only one computer (assuming you will still keep a desktop somewhere).

I hope Palm is working hard on getting a Remote Desktop client running on this or it will have very limited appeal. I can imagine a remote desktop client running on this tied to something like Amazon's virtual computing services being very cool.

RE: Budget play?
EricsProjects @ 5/30/2007 2:12:31 PM # Q
Considering all the implementations of VNC on Linux, it shouldn't be difficult to find a remote desktop solution.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+vnc&btnG=Google+Search

RE: Budget play?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 2:16:25 PM # Q
Nor to program a regular laptop to interact with the same software that's running on all those F-compatible smartphones...

Reply to this comment

So How Much Storage

jdc7601 @ 5/30/2007 2:07:02 PM # Q
Does anyone else see that they said that it can take SD or CF cards but they neglected how much storage it contained

Reply to this comment

So much for 'pocketable'

rmhurdman @ 5/30/2007 2:08:20 PM # Q
And I wonder if that's a 2.5 mono jack (like my T|C) and if they'll EOL it within the year.
Email over Wi-Fi to come? No hard drive?
So far, this is a device that, by itself, does nothing.

I know they say that they are "actively supporting third-party software developers", but this is one developer who learns from the past. Palm needs a scapegoat to blame for their poor implementation and third party applications have been blamed in the past.

I predict an underwhelming migration of developers and even worse adoption by the non-geeky public. How many people want to drop over $1,000 to get two devices and be tethered to a wireless carrier?

RE: So much for 'pocketable'
painted_dog @ 5/30/2007 10:37:37 PM # Q
...& another great thing is that even though it fits on an airplane tray table, you can't sync it w/ the treo (or other smartphone) as you aren't allowed to use any RF transmissions. (i don't remember seeing IR as an option for Foleo. ... Deo!... er i mean Doh!)

-painted dog

Reply to this comment

music and memory?

dustbunny44 @ 5/30/2007 2:08:57 PM # Q
2 questions:
1. will it support/enhance a phone for music playing? The ipod's been successful long enough that they must know music is a big part of people's mobile experience. I don't see anything in the initial release info about music support. Good support for music (how this would work on this device remains to be seen) would help support for the iphone. Jeff indicates they want to support lots of phones, and the initial iphone looks like it might benefit from keyboard support.

2. memory capacity, and can it be upgraded. Kinda goes with #1.

3. throw in a third: 3rd party program support.

Reply to this comment

Ya know what's interesting?

SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 2:08:58 PM # Q
At my doctor's office (bunch of doctors in one office, etc) they use devices essentially like this (same size) wirelessly throughout the office space as they and the nursing staff are walking around seeing patients, etc.

Been doing so for years, too.

Damn! What a great idea!

Reply to this comment

Third part applications?

naio21 @ 5/30/2007 2:11:27 PM # Q
Linux OS for easy application development

Veeeery easy. LOL!

Ivan

Reply to this comment

The Multimedia

snakechung @ 5/30/2007 2:14:04 PM # Q
Can't see any multimedia for this device? It is important for the buyer to choose a new mobile device now.

RE: The Multimedia
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 2:27:21 PM # Q
Oh it comes with a VGA adapter....presumably that means one more proprietary dongle to have to tote around & potentially get lost.

SD & CF slots? Come on, that's redundant. Sure there are plenty of CF peripherals out there but they all require drivers which will never be written for this thing. I'd like to see the CF slot jettisoned, an SDHC slot instead of regular SD (why does everyone but the camera companies refuse to move forward with SDHC?), and 2gb+ of internal flash. And, of course, a $399 or less pricetag without any of those silly mail-in rebates.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Multimedia
averageguy @ 5/30/2007 2:29:16 PM # Q
i work for the lirr and everyone who has a laptop coming home from work is watching movies and listening to music with there laptops. its seems to be pretty important to umwind from work. you need good multimedia in a device.

m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
RE: The Multimedia
AdamaDBrown @ 5/30/2007 6:16:20 PM # Q
hkk, a CF slot supports storage up to 16 GB right now, 32 GB soon, and no known limitations. Still want to toss it? :)

RE: The Multimedia
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 8:05:50 PM # Q
Let's assume that the CF slot is entirely open and user-accessible...and that the OS/bootloader are not contained on a pre-loaded CF card, eh? ;-)

IF it's a CF card that can be devoted entirely to storage then let the rejoicing begin! I just find it an interesting choice as the entire industry seems to be moving away from CF at the moment. Even some DSLRs are starting to adopt SDHC....I have no opposition to CF, it's just a VERY un-Palm-like move seeing as how they just kicked up between the legs by dropping fullsize SD/SDHC to go with miniSD on the last two Treos.

I really wish laptops still came with integrated CF slots. I find the usual SD/MS combo slots kind of limiting, actually.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Initial impression? A disaster in the making!

hkklife @ 5/30/2007 2:17:33 PM # Q
Nice industrial design but there's simply no way that anyone will go for this unless they have very specialized needs. Looking at this thing I cannot help but think of it as basically a Palm Portable keyboard with a CPU & a screen grafted onto it. Or maybe one of those Cidco/Earthlink Mailstations from a few years back (modem/keyboard/mono LCD all integrated together). Or even one of the ancient Tandy 1000s or a first-gen Windows CE clamshell. Or a WebTV but with wi-fi and an LCD screen. No video capabilities? No document creation capabilities? No internal storage capacity? The carriers aren't like to push this thing...is Palm going to try to sell through traditional B&M retailers and pitch this as an uber-PDA?

Either way, the pricing, size, and crippled functionality are all going to conspire to absolutely doom this thing. What Palm REALLY needs(ed) is a $400 or less, TX-sized full-fledged PDA with integrated EVDO wireless data and a chunk of internal flash storage. This thing is simply too little, too late. There's no way I'd leave a $500 , 15" widescreen, dual core laptop running Vista at home and carry this $500-$600 thing in conjunction with a $600 Treo.

No, Palm & Hawkins have totally lost it this time. Lightning is not going to strike thrice for Hawkins. Instead of this tomfoolery Palm should continue to refine their pocket-sized PDA line and add high-speed integrated wireless and gigs of flash-based storage.

What a misfire. Palm was once owned by 3Com. 3Com had the Audrey. Now Palm has their own version of the Audrey in the making.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
fierywater @ 5/30/2007 2:22:16 PM # Q
I can't help but feel that if it were $399 instead of $499 and without a rebate, this device would have an infinitely higher chance of success.

RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
DrewT3 @ 5/30/2007 2:46:17 PM # Q
Does it truly not support video, SDHD or document creation?

RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 3:38:04 PM # Q
This is not really for people that have a laptop. Lots of people have desk tops and for non-IT literate people I think a simple to use Plam OS device would be great and you'd have access in the long term to a very large library of Palm software. Agendus is better than Outlook IMHO...

Jah
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
AdamaDBrown @ 5/30/2007 7:15:27 PM # Q
PDAJah, the Foleo doesn't run Palm OS or Palm OS applications.

RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
OkyHo @ 5/31/2007 12:02:15 AM # Q
IMHO, it may work if...
- it can function as the monitor and keyboard of a zero-footprint (tiny) PC regardless what OS that tiny PC runs, best if that that tiny box is the size of a regular Palm (or even smaller)
- it can function a portable TV screen
- it has a sensitive microphone and speaker to be used for a phone via wifi (using Skype or alike)
- it runs WMA and/or RealPlayer as a portable streaming radio/video player
- it is ruggedized (less breakable), solar powered, not temperature sensitive, or alike (to be mounted and/or left in the hot, humid, freezing car for a long time)

Otherwise, without at least three of the above in any combinations, I am afraid this will end up as 3Com Ergo Audrey, or Microsoft BOB, Apple Newton, etc...

RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
jayhawk88 @ 5/31/2007 3:08:20 PM # Q
"Looking at this thing I cannot help but think of it as basically a Palm Portable keyboard with a CPU & a screen grafted onto it."

See that's the thing. If it was just that, this would be a great product. There are a lot of people out there carrying Palms/Treo's who are also carrying laptops for "real work" back at the hotel in the evenings, that would love a "Palm keyboard on steroids" to make catching up with email/docs editing/web surfing easier. But for $500? Why, when you can get a dual-core Dell for around a grand?

The problem is that a $200 Palm keyboard on steroids isn't a company saving product. So they give it WiFi, throw around some buzzwords, try and get the Linux crowd fired up about it, and here we are.

If this thing was just a nice simple large keyboard/screen interface to a Treo for $200 they'd sell a million of them.

Reply to this comment

It's a Win HPC device!!

madmaxmedia @ 5/30/2007 2:18:06 PM # Q
Not really, but revisiting that form factor. I had a NEC MobilePro that I really liked. Close to full sized keyboard, instant on, long battery life, mobile Office apps, etc.

The hardware was very long in the tooth, but obviously the new Foleo will be up to date from hardware side.

RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 2:29:44 PM # Q
Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I first looked at this device. This is an HPC redux. Palm is about seven years behind the market.

Hell, they didn't even get the HPC form factor right. Vadem's Clio was far more innovative and elegantly designed.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 2:48:00 PM # Q
Hmmmm, I'm having tremendous feelings of Deja Vu over the past hour. Apple released the $800 Newton-baed eMate over a decade ago. It was met with astounding indifference in the marketplace. The eMate weighed 4lbs, had 1mb of RAM, 2mb of flash, and 8mb of ROM, a 480x320 monochrome widescreen and infrared wireless.

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/apple_emate_300_blast_from_the_past_review

The eMate enjoyed nice mid-90s Apple industrial design, good build quality and a largeish LCD for the time. But it was just too underpowered for a laptop, too large for a PDA and never truly supported by Apple. I remember hoping that they'd keep tweaking the line and make it a real multimedia powerhouse. Then Newton's law brought us a world full of $1000 laptops and no one cared anymore.

Then the eMate-derived iBook came out a few years later and took the market by storm and Apple hasn't looked back since. The primary difference here is that Apple was a PC manufacturer who dipped a toe into the PDA market and failed. Palm is a PDA company trying to climb uphill to dip a toe into the subnotebook market while leaping headfirst into the smartphone pool but still trying to adhere to the PDA playbook of 1996 (Zen etc).

So.....back to the 700p ROM update watch I go!

P.S.

Speaking of the 700p...I ended up grudgingly going with a 700p because of my affection towards the Palm OS and the huge investment in apps I've made over the years. I went with a Treo because Palm hobbled their final PDAs so much and refused to let users of their PDAs do BT DUN with most all conventional featurephone/dumbphones on the market. So I HAD to go with a Treo in order to get Palm OS + wireless anywhere even though I didn't want a Treo *PER SE*.

Now Palm comes out with something that's not the EVDO-enabled TX2 I was hoping for but an unwieldy, overpriced monstrosity I'd never consider carrying around with me. Why are Palm and Hawkins SO dead-set on ignoring the classic Palm Plot/Palm V formfactor. It's just big enough without being TOO big!

P.P.S. I'd be more likely to spend $600 on a EVDO'd TX2 that was rock solid stable than the Foleo. It's not just a pricing issue, it's size/lack of multimedia/lack of document functionality etc etc etc etc. My only remaining hope is that there's a TX or Zodiac-sized (at largest) Mobile Companion in the works for an October release.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
itster @ 5/30/2007 11:25:07 PM # Q
palm wihout any doubt, has become the biggest joke in the industry. always moving backwards
Reply to this comment

Laptop wannabe

Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 2:27:09 PM # Q
So this is Palm's third business? Dumbed-down laptops running a proprietary OS for the same price of a real laptop? Oi!

Anyone else hear that loud splash? It's the sound of this product sinking to the bottom.

I retract what I said before, this product won't even establish a niche market. You can buy a really nice Acer laptop for $449 that isn't much bulkier than this.

Oh the pain...the pain.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Laptop wannabe
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 2:33:34 PM # Q
Well, Dell is selling a $499 laptop now with a dual-core Turion CPU, a DVD burner, memory card slots, a 15.4" widescreen and Radeon DX9 integrated graphics. It's no powerhouse but it can handle Vista in full Aero Glass mode without too many hiccups.

For $399.99 + tax (out the door, no rebates) BestBuy are currently selling THREE different laptops ( Compaq & Acer Celeron M's and an Everex VIA C7-M). All have 512mb of RAM, 60 or 80gb HDs, Vista Home Basic, and a CD or DVD burner. They are not instant-on nor are they ultra-portable but I'd take one of the above $400 laptops plus an $80 Z22 and a $100 dumbphone for REAL productivity anyday.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Laptop wannabe
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 2:50:11 PM # Q
Agreed. It astounds me that Palm actually believes a customer base exists for this product. Based on everyday functionality alone, this thing is absolutely worthless for anything beyond basic web browsing and email. A 10" display is too small for real work. For a full portable computing experience a 13" or great display is a must, and even el cheapo notebooks in this price range offer up to a 15.4" widescreen display.

Another astonishing disappointment is its rather homely design. I wouldn't go so far as to call it ugly, but this certainly isn't something I would be proud to pull out of my backpack at a meeting. All plastic, unattractive grey plastic. It looks more like really cheap looking PC notebook than the elegant portable Palm claims it to be.

Palm really has lost it's edge. They have no clue what mobile computing is all about anymore. It now must resort to throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks.



-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Laptop wannabe
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 2:59:59 PM # Q
>>>For a full portable computing experience a 13" or great display is a must,

Aw, nuts.

I could do plenty with a Samsung Q1 Classic and it's 7" screen.

It's the SOFTWARE, stupid.

Which the Flopeo is lacking. And will continue to lack.

Just like Nokia's Anti-Internet Tablets.

RE: Laptop wannabe
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 3:10:51 PM # Q
Trust me, after spending a few hours squinting at that puny 10" display, that MacBook sitting on the shelf at CompUSA is going to look real good to you. Another thing you may have overlooked is the small screen means a cramped keyboard as well. So not only are you squinting at the screen, your hands are practically clasped together when typing. Orthopedics should give these away to patients, they're sure to generate repeat customers.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Laptop wannabe
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:31:25 PM # Q
I've used the Q1 Classic. It's fine.

That's not to say the Flopeo is any good. Right off the bat I can see it's not.

Yeah, Palm now Daughter of Audrey!

RE: Laptop wannabe
freakout @ 5/30/2007 8:34:27 PM # Q
Totally agree with what's being said here - if you're going to buy half a laptop, then you might as well just go the whole hog and get a real computer. Foleo screams "niche market only".

And here we were all hoping for a cool new handheld that could Palm exciting again. What a letdown!!

RE: Laptop wannabe
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 8:55:14 PM # Q
> ...And here we were all hoping for a cool new handheld
> that could Palm exciting again...

Not me!

I was looking for some show-stopping SOFTWARE running on remote servers ala the iPhone's Visual Vociemail et al that would allow DUHmb Linux-based phones to be served both applications and massaged-data on-the-fly!

I really really did think that Bill Coleman was brought onto the BoD for a reason!

> ...What a letdown!!

Yup.

Reply to this comment

This is the end...of Palm

agrothey @ 5/30/2007 2:28:38 PM # Q
It took Palm almost 2 years to come up with a stripped-down laptop as their new mobile device? ("The earliest indications that Palm founder Jeff Hawkins had a major new project in the works came in August of 2005."). What a let-down. Since I need my laptop for business applications anyway, does Palm expect me to carry a second laptop-like device around with me?

RE: This is the end...of Palm
neurojava @ 5/30/2007 5:21:07 PM # Q
Unbelievable right!?!

In the larger scheme of things, I guess it is a sign of things to come for Palm as a company. I see it going the Ford/GM way.

Will be honestly sorry to see Palm hammered - we all come to this forum because we love /loved Palm's platform.

But times have changed. And Palm is just not there. Period.

RIP.

Reply to this comment

What a disppointment!

neuron @ 5/30/2007 2:33:21 PM # Q
Somebody worked on this for 7 years? What a idiot! $450 laptop in 7 years ago is a "third catagory" business, but now it is just a joke.

Reply to this comment

excellent product by Palm

chiefthetony @ 5/30/2007 2:33:52 PM # Q
If anyone has trid to do some work using the small screen and the small keyboard will appreciate this one.

Reply to this comment

Wow - Hawkins appparently ALREADY said to Mossberg...

SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 2:35:08 PM # Q
== "...WM Let me get this straight. It won't do the hottest thing
== on the web? [They blame the flash ware, but its obviously the procesor]
==
== JH Let me be clear -- it will do it, but not well.
==
== WM When?
==
== JH UHHH...In the future.
==
== JH If I could do it again, I'd put a faster processor in here.

Gack!

Reply to this comment

Does this require a DUN-enabled Treo?

samalone @ 5/30/2007 2:35:36 PM # Q
I've got an unlocked GSM Treo 650, and I use it as a mobile internet connection for my Nokia N800. I can do this because my unlocked Treo supports DUN (dial-up networking), which allows the Nokia to use it as a wireless modem. And with an (expensive) unlimited data plan, this setup is pretty nice.

But many Treo users are not so lucky, and have Treos where DUN has been disabled by the carrier. How is the Foleo going to work with these devices? Is this why it has to "sync" with the Treo -- because it cannot get to the internet directly?

Reply to this comment

more questions

OMEGON @ 5/30/2007 2:38:59 PM # Q
Given, it just came out, but I hope that Palm will provide a spec sheet so we can all see what this really is. Right now you can't tell.

1. Storage? What type? What size?
2. What app's come with it?
3. Can it print from apps, or are we stuck with having to shop around for a variety of print providers for each application? (Deal breaker for me.)
4. Will it support my Razr cell phone? It has Blue Tooth so I would expect it to work.
5. What hardware connections exist?
6. Are the batteries replaceable?
7. Is it compatible with my Palm E2? Other Palms?- can I synch my E2 with it? Via BT or WiFi?
8. That's a LOT of money to ask for what doesn't seem like leading edge technology. Compare to a Dell Inspirion laptop for only $50 more (www.dell.com)
9. I do like the form-factor. PDA's are often a bit small in the screen for things like photos, spreadsheets, etc. and this isnt' too big for a large coat pocket, or at worst won't take up much space in a laptop (or smaller) bag. Women can carry it in the average purse I would guess - is there such a thing?

RE: more questions
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 3:02:07 PM # Q
Work with a RAZR? Considering Palm has their final two PDAs (Lifedrive in May '05 and TX in Oct '05) to not work with CDMA dumbphones via BT DUN so as to keep Sprint & Verizon buying more underpowered Treos, I think the answer is a resounding "NO" to that question.

Sure, Palm may cozy up with one or two manufacturers (Apple & RIM spring to mind) to make a small handful of certain handsets Foleo-friendly but I would not consider the Foleo a device that can be used universally on ANY cell phone with a Bluetooth DUN profile. Also, Palm hasn't updated their sad PhoneLink update software since June of 2005. They're not about to start doing it again anytime soon.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Agreed, need to see specs.
JonAcheson @ 5/30/2007 3:16:20 PM # Q
I'd like to know about display resolution, processor speed, and onboard memory.

Also, is this thing able to be used as a standalone device, or do you have to have a Treo? I have no intention of buying a Treo, but it might be a nice standalone writing device.

What's really missing right now is the mission statement. Something like "You use it to blog."

If all it's good for is email and Docs to Go, color me unimpressed.



"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Found some specs!
JonAcheson @ 5/30/2007 3:40:19 PM # Q
From the PC Magazine article here:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2138728,00.asp

Hawkins calls this new category of handhelds "Mobile Companions," and his new device is called Foleo. It sports a full-size keyboard, a 10.2-inch bright color screen, and has an SD card slot, VGA out, USB, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi. The base unit itself comes with only 256MB of built-in RAM, but it has a CompactFlash slot under the battery so you can expand memory there or via the SD card slot.

Memory is disappointing, but the price is right, and it should do a good job displaying PDFs. And the memory can be fixed by adding a big CF card.

As a cheap Linux laptop, this might be interesting. It would be competing against the Intel Classmate PC, and the OLPC, though the latter is unlikely to be commercially available any time soon.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Screen Resolution
JonAcheson @ 5/30/2007 3:46:29 PM # Q
More info from PC Mag:
It weighs about 2.4 pounds but feels much lighter, and even with its small battery it can deliver five full hours (even while using Wi-Fi the entire time). The large screen supports 1024-by-600 or 1024-by-768 VGA resolution. Navigation is done through a TrackPoint nub in the keyboard and it has a roller wheel below the keyboard to provide fast and easy scrolling.


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
RE: more questions
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 4:23:06 PM # Q
Hmmm I'd still rather see 2x SDHC slots than a CF & SD slot. Still, at least they let you roll your own flavor of CF...be it a cheap leftover Microdrive or a slow off-brand regular CF or a huge 16gb CF (down to $150ish nowdays.

So with 8gb or 16gb in the CF slot and 4gb in th SD slot it still might turn out alright. But then again, 2 or 4 gb internally would still have been the best solution to complement dual expansion slots.

I don't see what runs up the cost on this thing. All of the tech used here is stuff seen on previous Palms (other than the 10" LCD of course) and there's nothing like WiMax, SSD or OLED to run up the pricetag. Could it just be Palm being greedy again and hoping for a specialy low-volume, high margin niche device like the T|C was?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: more questions
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:09:20 PM # Q
The CF slot is what will hold the LifeDrive's MicroDrive.

Ooh. Gotta go put mine up on ebay! The Microdrive, that is. My LifeDrive is now LifeFlash.

Reply to this comment

Please tell me they're kidding.

moofie @ 5/30/2007 2:40:59 PM # Q
This is Palm's game-changer?

FAIL.

Reply to this comment

Guess what? No new OS for you!!

mikecane @ 5/30/2007 2:55:09 PM # Q
There's the new OS. And I bet it AIN'T coming to your Treo or whatever remaining PDA Palm deigns to put out.

It's for the Flopeo -- uh, Foleo only.

Wait.
Worry.
Who cares?

Reply to this comment

finally

averageguy @ 5/30/2007 2:55:51 PM # Q
this might replace the fossil watch i still wear.

m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
RE: finally
AdamaDBrown @ 5/30/2007 7:37:53 PM # Q
I hope you have a really strong watchband.

Reply to this comment

Product looks fantastic!

PilotMad @ 5/30/2007 3:00:30 PM # Q
I'm an IT consultant and I hate carrying my laptop. I always have my TX handy with my timesheets, accounting, and contacts/appointments database.

All I need while travelling about is MS office, internet functionality and some multimedia capabilities. This device might do it all for me.

Windows XP is too slow to start up when all you want to do is quickly add a few notes or look up some items. Time is quite precious.

I'm intrigued by the linux aspect, as it opens up enormous possibilities. As I use UNIX almost everyday, for an IT technician machine this could be perfect for remote access.

It's also easy to see that any number of a large amount of existing applications may be ported quite easily to this platform. That was always a failing of the Windows CE platform.

However, it worries me that there is no mention of memory or solid state hard drives yet. It needs a reasonable amount to make the product a winner.

Slim, gorgeous, sexy, linux. I think Microsoft are in for a shock.


RE: Product looks fantastic!
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 3:44:43 PM # Q
Didn't you forget the ob-disclosure paragraph?

RE: Product looks fantastic!
PilotMad @ 5/31/2007 6:15:50 AM # Q
Not sure what you mean? But I don't have anything to do with Palm or development on the Palm platform. Nor involved as an industry or media analyst. I am a developer on Oracle, Windows and UNIX.
Reply to this comment

WOW!

Khris @ 5/30/2007 3:01:07 PM # Q
What a piece of crap! In a time when we're trying to prevent carrying multiple devices, Palm's BRILLIANT idea is to make us all carry another one?!

Who fell off their rocker and made this suggestion? What a waste of time.

Yet another tangent on the Palm road map which will inevitably result in a dead end.

RIP Palm 2007

Reply to this comment

Who Cares..

leathernuts @ 5/30/2007 3:02:21 PM # Q
I already have a laptop!!! What I want to see is the Darn!!! 700P update!!!! I guess its never gonna happen.

Reply to this comment

Touch Screen???

Colormeweb @ 5/30/2007 3:03:18 PM # Q
Why does the screen not turn around to make a tablet? Where the heck is the stylus?? No touch screen on a Palm???

Reply to this comment

Already got something like this...

BorgDrone72 @ 5/30/2007 3:07:59 PM # Q
...it's called the Nokia N800.

800x480 screen, very sharp, easy to read. If I need to look at a web page that doesn't render properly on my Treo, I just whip out the N800, which has a full version of Opera on it. It also does email and I can also remotely manage my servers and other computers (VNC/remote desktop and good old SSH remote login). I can also do email and news/RSS on the thing, either using webmail or its built in POP and IMAP mail client. The only thing it is lacking is a keyboard, and the capability to edit Office documents. I don't really need to edit Office documents remotely, so that's not really important to me. And as soon as my next paycheck comes, I'll be buying a Bluetooth keyboard, which the N800 plays happily with. (besides, the N800 has a soft-keyboard that is perfectly adequate for typing in short emails, URLs, and the like.)

Plus it's a *real* Linux based computer, so it can use the thousands of open source applications that are out there... everything from basic text editing, email, web, news/RSS, etc., all the way to really weird esoteric stuff like biological protein molecule modeling and other sci/eng apps. And yes, there are lots of games for it too.

It's also smaller than the Foleo, and easily fits in my inside coat pocket.

So it may not be as elegant as the Foleo, but it was cheaper (about $400 for the N800 vs $599 and a $100 rebate for the Foleo).


Donald Burr of Borg
Treo 755p on Sprint (EVDO/Power vision) and lovin' it!

RE: Already got something like this...
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:12:02 PM # Q
Yeah, well, YouTube sucks on your Nokia Anti-Internet Tablet.

But it will probably suck on the Flopeo too.

Between the two, my god! someone give me a sedative!, I'd choose the N800 over the Flopeo.

God, just kill me NOW for typing that admission!

RE: Already got something like this...
BorgDrone72 @ 5/30/2007 3:19:49 PM # Q
Blame it on Adobe. The reason why Youtube playback sucks is mostly due to the fact that there is no official Flash support. You know, proprietary closed source protocols and all. Nokia is using an opensource Flash player, which is still evolving. They released a software update recently and now it is actually somewhat playable (there is still stuttering/jerky video but you get the gist of it). Before this update, it didn't work at all. I suspect that in the next software update it will be even better.

I ran into the exact same thing on my desktop Linux box at work, which defaults to using the open source Flash plugin. I had to install the Adobe official plugin to get it to work right (which is only available as an Intel x86 binary, so it own't work on the N800 which is an ARM based unit.)


Donald Burr of Borg
Treo 755p on Sprint (EVDO/Power vision) and lovin' it!

RE: Already got something like this...
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:08:09 PM # Q
Maybe Adobe is smart enough to see THERE IS NO REAL MARKET for these crippled devices?

Reply to this comment

Why???

razorpit @ 5/30/2007 3:11:01 PM # Q
I've said this before but now that I've "seen" it I'll say it again. This product will revolutionize the smartphone segment as much as the Segway revolutionized transportation.

I firmly believe the "revolutionary" comments start getting tossed out to the public once the designers and managers come to the realization "Oh sh*t. We answered a question no one was asking." Seriously, how can you spend years working on this pile of crap and actually admit you put that kind of time in to it?

For about $150 - $200 I can maybe see a use for it but when you can get a nice laptop for the same price, you would have to be retarded to buy one of these. Aren't iPhones going to start at $499?


Reply to this comment

Remember the LifeDrive

007BAF @ 5/30/2007 3:12:35 PM # Q
This thing is DOA. They could have dusted off the LifeDrive and improved its features, pleased the installed base, and maybe even offered a new skinnier, better LifeDrive v 2. But they didn't. We'll all be reminiscing soon about Palm, what a great idea it had all those years ago, wondering if they'll have a sale on their office furniture. Palm Pilot, PalmOne, Palm, Foleo -- RIP.

www.danmosqueda.blogspot.com

Reply to this comment

Great vision

PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 3:15:47 PM # Q
Finally, the simplicity of Palm in small laptop. Normal people now have a simple to use and hopefully reliable computing device that is affordable. It can only get better. I would love to use my Palm apps with a larger screen. Agendus is much better than outlook, for example. ListManager Pro would also be terrific when used with a larger display. This is only the platform - the software makes the difference :) :) :)

Jah
RE: Great vision
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:33:55 PM # Q
Hello? Where did they say even the existing built-in Palm PIM apps run on it?

RE: Great vision
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 3:40:19 PM # Q
I understood it was not that difficult to port DataViz's apps so we should see the mega library of Palm apps in the near future...

Jah
RE: Great vision
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 3:48:42 PM # Q
Oh God yes, because Documents To Go is just as good (better in fact) than a real Office suite. *sarcasm* Why would I want the same limited baby PalmOS software running on a notebook-like portable? Do the apps suck less when you add a 10" screen and QWERTY keyboard? I think not.

On a PC notebook in this class, for the same price, I get a machine that has ZERO software limitations. I can user virtually any desktop class application (short of PC gaming) with no restrictions. FOLEO offers none of that, not even a full web experience. This product is going to flop so badly that the light from flop will take 10,000 years to reach its surface.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: Great vision
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:50:51 PM # Q
Hello for a second time!

Why doesn't it even come with the FOUR BASIC PALM PIMs on it?!

DataViz jumped on it as a way to try to get some $$$ from the MSWord, et al, market.

Having had D2G lose the formatting on nearly everydamnthing I ever put in it, I will NEVER trust or use that software again. That the Flopeo has it is no selling point to me.

RE: Great vision
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 4:08:52 PM # Q
@Foo - the point I can use the same apps on my Palm and Foleo, and I prefer my Palm apps. They are simple and efficient. I have a Sony Vaio TX1 and Samsung Q1 so I know what small XP/Vista devices are about..they are inefficient and slow. Non-IT people find PCs a nightmare to use. I really think having a simple OS with simple apps would appeal to a lot of people. I have 20+ years in IT and I never use more than 20% of the capability of Word and Exce...

Jah
RE: Great vision
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 4:13:45 PM # Q
@mikecane, if you can't port Palm apps with ease then I think the Foleo is dead...lets wait until July/August and see what the full set of apps are..I am sure we'll see Agendus and Databook etc

Jah
RE: Great vision
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 4:48:18 PM # Q
>>>I am sure we'll see Agendus and Databook etc

If yer dreams, mate!

People said the same fekkin thing about the Linux-based Nokia Anti-Internet Tablets.

Yeah, some wealth of software that inspired!

RE: Great vision
PilotMad @ 5/31/2007 7:02:54 AM # Q
I don't think anyone can say how much of of a success this product will be. It's too early to tell.

However, it's simplicity which drives mass market takeup of a product - the original Palm being a case in point. The majority still only buy a Palm for the basic applications, which satisfies their needs. However, we all know the Palm is a powerful platform with a vast number of programs, in it's own right.

We are possibly back to a product, maybe in many ways like the original Palm Pilot. Maybe, so easy that my grandmother (or people like her) could use it. That's a huge market!!

However, anyone who thinks a Linux operating system based product is an underpowered product, is a fool.

Whether Palm can get enough critical mass from developers to port existing Linux applications or create new ones for 'power' users is anyone's guess. It depends entirely on the numbers who buy the product (all users). Developers and software companies have to make a profit.

I'm sold on it. I've always wanted something quick and light, almost like a PDA for when i'm travelling. I mostly only need full office functionality (Word, Email, Excel etc.) and internet access. I know many people think like that too, since I'm nearly always sorting out their problems.

The iPod, the original Blackberry, ... all basic functionality, but market winners.

I know that one of the first things I will do is to seek a program for command line access to the operating system, to get full power of the machine. A portable Linux laptop for development. Yes, this thing is great for Pros and IT technical staff and consultants alike.

I don't know what it takes to make a winning product, people are quite fickle. But all the winners so far, have 'appeared' to be quite simple in design and in function, at the start of their product life.



"You have to rage against the dying of the light".

RE: Great vision
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:21:28 PM # Q
>>>We are possibly back to a product, maybe in many ways like the original Palm Pilot. Maybe, so easy that my grandmother (or people like her) could use it. That's a huge market!!

Then why the hell didn't she rush to buy this when it came out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_eVilla

Or is it only now that she's getting senile?

Reply to this comment

The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!

mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:18:00 PM # Q
Damn, and what a raging success these babies were too!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/CDE/_LAPTOP.GIF

http://sharkysoft.com/archive/20020000-as3000/as3000-large.jpg

I think the only way they will get rid of their *immediate* overstocked inventory of Flopeos is to give it away with the purchase of an unlocked Treo from the Palm Store direct.

RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 3:24:22 PM # Q
Alas, poor Clio. You were ahead of your time...

http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/04/ClioImage12.JPG

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:29:05 PM # Q
Oh, and here's the HP predecessor too:

HP Omnibook 300, 1993
http://tinyurl.com/332m3y

Hands-On with the Foleo from Engadgbet
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 3:30:56 PM # Q
Engadget got some hands-on time with this stinker

So it DOES have a cursor and a trackpoint-style nub! And what looks like a 3.5mm headphone jack!

http://www.engadget.com/photos/palm-foleo-hands-on/


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 3:39:10 PM # Q
Best quote of the day, posted in the comments on Engadget...


Palm FOLEO

Fat
Obsolete
Lacking
Expensive
Ordinary

FOLEO

If you buy one of these its like carrying a big I'm an idiot sign



-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 3:44:29 PM # Q
Well I'll be buying one! This is a platform for software - don't judge it in hardware terms. I want to use Plam s/w on a small laptop - much better than the overly complex stuff that M$ encourages for XP/Vista

Jah
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:52:19 PM # Q
>>>I want to use Plam s/w on a small laptop

Sure, go ahead and buy one.

But the minute you come here months later wailing about THE LACK OF SOFTWARE FOR IT, you must post your address so we can come over and shoot your kneecaps off.

RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
PDAJah @ 5/30/2007 4:15:11 PM # Q
@mikecane...no problem...assuming you can get across to the UK :)

Jah
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 4:43:45 PM # Q
Oy you. I'm amending that agreement. You can buy one IF you move to the US!

Reply to this comment

One Possible Application

DarthRepublican @ 5/30/2007 3:34:21 PM # Q
While the Foleo's initial specs are underwhelming there is at least one application for which I think it would perform perfectly. The five hour battery life is very nice and might appeal to students who are already having their multimedia needs filled by an iPod. It should be useful as a note-taking device that a student can carry to every class and to take notes. While a student could do the same with a laptop, most modern laptops have terrible battery life and can barely get through a couple of lectures without needing to be plugged into an outlet. In addition, if Palm or a third-party have a native note-taking application which allows you to combine text with free-hand drawings in one seamless Office or Office compatible document, this device would be perfect for note-taking. That it will be able to play nice with a Treo is a given but if the Foleo could somehow interact with an iPod for outputting music and video from the iPod to the 10 inch screen, then this device could be a perfect laptop replacement for at least some people.

My point is that after constantly trying to cram all possible functionality into one device, many people still carry multiple devices and Palm if it is smart enough can take advantage of that fact by turning the Foleo into a hub for all of the gadgets that we carry. Even if they stick to only letting you use it with Palm devices (which would be a mistake IMHO), it gives Palm a lot more flexibility to make devices they might not have made before. They could for example, do a truly thin Treo with no keyboard and sell it together with the Foleo in the same box as a part of an agreement with a mobile carrier. They could shrink a PDA to credit card size (remember the Rex?) and let it recharge and edit its documents by sticking it into a slot on the Foleo.

I don't think that the Foleo will be a screaming success but if Palm is patient and let it evolve and become more powerful, it will become a successful device.

RE: One Possible Application
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 3:53:44 PM # Q
Uh, I guess you never heard of the Alphasmart?!

http://www.access-company.com/news/press/PalmSource/2002/061702.html

That was Flopeo 0.5

RE: One Possible Application
DarthRepublican @ 5/31/2007 3:30:19 AM # Q
Actually I do remember the Alphasmart. I don't see how a highly specialized device aimed specifically at the education market like the Alphasmart qualifies as a huge flop. And personally I don't really care if the Foleo is a "flop" or not. I've been using and enjoying the LifeDrive since the day after it debuted in stores -- and I didn't have to swap out the hard drive for a CF card to do it either. So I'm sure that there will be somebody who buys the Foleo and enjoys it even if it's not a success.

RE: One Possible Application
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:24:49 PM # Q
>>>So I'm sure that there will be somebody who buys the Foleo and enjoys it even if it's not a success.

And please dear God let not such a retard sit next to me in a public place!

Reply to this comment

Maybe it'll be good for something...

yugadp @ 5/30/2007 3:37:36 PM # Q
Well, it looks like this thing might be good for some people in very specific circumstances. But other than the few groups of people that will want the Foleo, no one's going to buy this crap. Palm should NOT have introduced this as a third, game-changing product line (especially since it appears to be reliant on their Treo product line to work). And with that insanely huge price tag... RIP Palm. But the way it is, the Flopeo is "...no longer good for anything but to be thrown out into the street and trampled by men." Come on, Palm! Let's see a TX2!
RE: Maybe it'll be good for something...
yugadp @ 5/30/2007 3:46:51 PM # Q
Ok, based on a screenshot from Engadget, it looks like the Foleo will have about 128mb of internal storage. http://www.engadget.com/photos/palm-foleo-hands-on/258111/

RE: Maybe it'll be good for something...
mikecane @ 6/8/2007 9:08:49 AM # Q
Yeah, that bit about how much storage the Flopeo has hit me like a lead pipe yesterday. Geez, even FAKE IPOD NANOs have more storage! They should have crammed at least 1GB in there.

Yeah, yeah, don't give me this It Has Slots argument. Palm will screw up the filesystem again. Just watch...

Besides, this is supposed to be a SIMPLE device.

Reply to this comment

I might be interested

mwrob @ 5/30/2007 3:43:23 PM # Q
I might be interested if it worked with my 700p, but bluetooth sucks on the 700p. Where is the 700p ROM update?

Mike
Reply to this comment

Are niche markets viable?

dagwud @ 5/30/2007 3:44:36 PM # Q
Like many others here, my first reaction was underwhelming. But then, as I thought about it, I realized that it's a niche item for a market Palm might be able to claim.

I have several friends who are in sales or public relations. They spend more time out of their offices than in them. They've got Treos and depend on them, but complain about trying to manage their email on the little screen with the thumbboard.

They don't want to carry and maintain another computer (i.e, a laptop in addition to their existing Treo and desktop). So they muddle through. The Foleo might give them better/easier access to the data they love to keep on their Treos without creating yet-another-place for data to be stored and synced.

Unfortunately, it's a niche market. Success will ultimately ride on how well the software connects with "on-Treo" data and information. That, and how well Palm sells the idea to the business traveler.

Of course, given recent performance and development... it's doomed.

--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???

RE: Are niche markets viable?
PilotMad @ 5/31/2007 7:39:48 AM # Q
Yes, it's down to marketing and timing. If they can sell the convenience factor of 'instant-on' and MS Office compatibility, it should take off.

If a stripped-down MS Vista laptop with instant-on, suddenly arrives on the market then there will be some problems. MS Clout could spoil the party.

As an IT person, the major gripe of most people/users is that a pc does more than they need, is too complicated, and too slow to boot up. The last factor is the single most irritating feature of all.

The more programs that get added, the slower the start-up time, the more problems they encounter. They have a real nightmare with security (anti-virus, firewalls, anti-spyware) programs.

MS Office functions (Word,Excel,Email), media players (photos, music, video), and internet access (via a browser) is all they care about.

For almost anyone too, who is doing mobile working, at internet cafes, coffee shops etc. These above set of programs are the only ones that are really used.

At home, a desktop/laptop with a large number of varied/specialist programs is fine.


RE: Are niche markets viable?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 8:02:22 AM # Q
> ...If a stripped-down MS Vista laptop with instant-on, suddenly
> arrives on the market then there will be some problems...

These don't already exist?

RE: Are niche markets viable?
rmhurdman @ 5/31/2007 8:07:35 AM # Q
But Palm hasn't included multimedia capabilities here. They should take an example from the philosophy of the iPhone and include the basic functionality that users will require. As you said, web browsing & email, document editing, multimedia. If this POS doesn't do all those things, then good luck to Palm. They've just released and expensive doorstop.

Reply to this comment

Hahahahah... Well for one thing, I was *surprised*!

mr_yellow @ 5/30/2007 3:53:04 PM # Q
I honestly had really high expectations and was really surprised when I read that this "revolutionary" new device was essentially a thin-client laptop.

Let's ditch the lappy, to use the phone, and now let's ditch the phone and use the foleo.. NO WAIT! Why don't I just use the laptop I already have???

BRILLIANT...

Seriously now.. A companion device for a companion device for the computer.... I know they're really pushing to standardize the smartphone as the main source of data, but seriously. Who *really* relies 100% on their smartphone for everything? My guess is a tiny tiny *tiny* niche market. Way to go vertical palm...

I really thought this was an april fool's joke... Wow..

[/rant]


Reply to this comment

Do they actually USE their products anymore?

james_sorenson @ 5/30/2007 3:55:47 PM # Q
(Sigh)...
I own a Treo680. I love it, but it took some tweaking to get it right, and I still have the occassionaly "battery offset" issue where it'll fully-charge to only 26% at times. It makes me wonder how much they actually USED their own stuff before putting it out on the market. I also owned some of the early Psion UMPC models. I love the OS, but the form-factor was miserable.

So....we have the Foleo now! A few Pros and Cons, shall we? Then add your own.

Pros:
1. Open-Source Linux platform increases the chances of having a lot of favorite software get ported over (depending on how compliant the X-client is).
2. Instant on. Actually...this is VERY important if you use it as a PIM.
3. Reasonably light.
4. Cheap price for something that includes Office apps.

Cons:
1. Laptop form? Oh goodie...let's find a trash-can to set this onto so I can type something in. This also means I have to set it on my lap to check email. Talk about a kink in the neck!

2. Wait...what's that on the keyboard? A track-pointer?!?! AAAAAAAAUGH...there's a CURSOR on the screen!!! It uses a @#()*#^ mouse instead of touch-screen! What is this, the 90s?

3. ...you know what, never mind. I already don't want this. Seriously, it has nearly all of the inconvenience of a standard UMPC but without the compatibility.

====What it SHOULD have been====
It should've been the Nokia N800 done RIGHT.
A 5" to 7" TOUCH-screen pad for good ebook, web-browsing, and movie viewing.
Instant-on capability with both WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity. SDHC support so that we could eventually plug in 32GB of space.
Have it compatible with Palm's bluetooth keyboard.
Palm emulator to make use of all those Palm apps.

(Sigh again). Who's going to drop $400 for a neutered, awkward laptop when the Nokia N800 and Apple iPhone are available? I really hope I'm wrong about this device, but right I can't see why the "average joe" would pick this up, never mind us techies who know better. Average Joe wants touch-screen, movies, games, and that whole "it feels good in my hands" thing. This appears to be a niche market.


-------
James Sorenson

Reply to this comment

Huh?

Hazniet @ 5/30/2007 4:03:14 PM # Q
2 years of R&D and they produce a laptop that does less than my Tungsten T3?!?!?!?!

Keep up the innovating Palm!

________________________________________
If you feel like you're under control, you're just not going fast enough.

Reply to this comment

Hello Audrey

Gekko @ 5/30/2007 4:05:21 PM # Q

Hello Audrey, nice to see you, it's been a long time
You're just as silly as you used to be



RE: Hello Audrey
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 5:01:23 PM # Q
Audrey had a touchscreen. At least that product failed with grace, instead tumbling out the door landing flat on its face.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Hello Audrey
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:06:33 PM # Q
Audrey also was kinda pretty, in a garish fugly sorta retarded way.

Reply to this comment

End-run around blocked DUN

cervezas @ 5/30/2007 4:12:02 PM # Q
One positive thing that Palm is doing aside from addressing the instant-on and battery life shortcomings of cheap laptops: they are working around the fact that most of the carriers won't *let* you use a laptop tethered to your phone. The Foleo gets your email from the phone itself, not by using the phone as a modem, so it works around that limitation... for email and attached documents at least. Theoretically, you could have apps on the phone that work as agents to fetch you other things, like files off your office desktop or even the desktop itself (with a VNC client).

But the farther you go with this the more you run into the limitation of the smartphone battery. I guess if you're going to do that kind of heavy remote connectivity over an extended period that's where you need to have WiFi.


David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: End-run around blocked DUN
cervezas @ 5/30/2007 4:27:59 PM # Q
If you wrote a little proxy server application for Palm OS that used Exchange Manager over BT you could browse and slurp feeds and stuff from the Foleo, too, even if the carrier wouldn't let you use DUN. I bet that's one of the first things they work on.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: End-run around blocked DUN
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 4:32:25 PM # Q
I bet one of the first things worked on is getting the Foolio's comm software runnign on Everyman's Laptop.

RE: End-run around blocked DUN
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 4:55:38 PM # Q
Naw when these things hit E-Bay and the clearance bins, you'll see it embraced by the thriving hacker community. Aside from that, this thing will probably last about as long as the previous record holder for a short-lived Palm device (the T|T at 9 months). After a day like this I might need to go out and pick up another backup TX!

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
Reply to this comment

What carriers allow use of this again?

SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 4:25:37 PM # Q
Anyone?

RE: What carriers allow use of this again?
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 4:30:56 PM # Q
What, Bluetooth DUN/tethering?

Sprint lets you add a PAM plan (Phone As Modem) to your existing account for $15igh per month extra.

Verizon charges $40/month for unlimited DUN.

Both of them have special packages with drivers/connection manager software you can download off their sites and use to configure your laptop with a hardwired Treo/phone.

Now, I think you can just use (at least in Vista) the native Windows BT setup wizard to establish a wireless BT DUN configuration between the Treo and the laptop. At least check, neither CDMA carrier had begun supporting hardwired Vista setups yet.

You can always just take your chances and get PDAnet or USBmodem in conjunction with either a CDMA or GSM network and bring your own access and risk getting dinged by the carrier for it.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

Horrid

T_W @ 5/30/2007 4:38:47 PM # Q
They launch (and then voluntarily euthanize well before it reached its potential) the pocketable PDA market and then they come up with this?

They wont sell me a workable PDA anymore, but expect me to buy a watered down laptop?

Hey Ed, apparently the smartphone guys can't make a PC either.

Astounding. This company has truly lost it.

Exactly what advantage does this thing have over a traditional laptop? Instant on??? I have to take the thing out of the laptop bag first and find a surface to place it on.

And on the same day as the "Microsoft Surface" announcement. This surely will be getting a lot of press.



RE: Horrid
rrfranczak3 @ 5/30/2007 4:42:34 PM # Q
according to their home page this will be out during the summer....know what????....uh...I can wait.....for $500+...uh....I can really wait!!!!!!!!!!


After my divorce, my Palm is my best friend...Palm Pilot that is.......

Reply to this comment

Speechless

PacManFoo @ 5/30/2007 4:53:21 PM # Q
Can you say Flopoleo?

Nice boat anchor Palm! Now where is my TX2?



PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100

Reply to this comment

For the P.T. Barnum market

Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 4:54:35 PM # Q
Price of Foleo: $499

Price of a real PC laptop: $499

Proving that P.T.Barnum was right: Priceless.

For everything else, there's Palm.

Forgive my self indulgence, but hours after the unveiling my head is still spinning in disbelief.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: For the P.T. Barnum market
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:05:20 PM # Q
>>>my head is still spinning in disbelief.

You eejit. Always take one of those travel sickness meds to prepare for a Palm announcements.

Does wonders!

RE: For the P.T. Barnum market
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 5:12:59 PM # Q
Only if you chase it down with a stiff shot of Bourbon.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
Reply to this comment

The latest deathknells for Palm

mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:03:56 PM # Q
Oh, these headlines are deliciously mean -- yet true!!

Stick A Fork In Palm
http://techdirt.com/articles/20070530/111236.shtml

Why the Foleo Could Mean the End of Palm
http://blogs.business2.com/beta/2007/05/why_the_foleo_c.html

Palm officially out of ideas, debuts 1990s palmtop concept
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070530-palm-officially-out-of-ideas-debuts-1990s-palmtop-concept.html

Palm ignores history, forges ahead.
http://saunderslog.com/2007/05/30/palm-ignores-history-forges-ahead/

And this, my friends, is why is it DOA right NOW:

>>>Hawkins is saying he loves a Flash-based cartoon site but can't watch it on his Treo; he can on the Foleo, which supports Flash (but not all Flash--it can't do video).

RE: The latest deathknells for Palm
Gekko @ 5/30/2007 5:27:47 PM # Q


wow those are great.

what's Big Moss have to say?



RE: The latest deathknells for Palm
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 5:39:49 PM # Q
The title piece on Ars summed it up beautifully.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: The latest deathknells for Palm
SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 6:47:30 PM # Q
> what's Big Moss have to say?

== "...WM Let me get this straight. It won't do the hottest
== thing on the Web? [They blame the flashware, but its
== obviously the processor]
==
== JH Let me be clear—:it will do it, but not well.
==
== WM When?
==
== JH UHHH...In the future.
==
== JH If I could do it again, I'd put a faster processor in here..."

Taken from Gizmodo's realtime blog during the D conference.

Reply to this comment

I love IT !!!

zuhmir @ 5/30/2007 5:06:26 PM # Q
so cool!! and linux based so we will see tons of cool hacks and stuff (firefox on palm?)

i really wonder about the specs though... how much flash memory? how many MHz? How good is the screen?
why oh why it's not a touch screen??
what about A2DP BT audio?
how good is the virtual machine?


RE: I love IT !!!
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:46:57 PM # Q
>>>and linux based so we will see tons of cool hacks and stuff (firefox on palm?)

The Nokia Anti-Internet Tablet has been out at least 1.5 years. Go check on how much software there is for it.

Make sure you check for things like PIM and WP.

Oh, and don't go buy lists. See if people are USING them.

What I tried sucked.

RE: I love IT !!!
mikecane @ 5/30/2007 5:47:34 PM # Q
Homonym typo buy = by

RE: I love IT !!!
Bmann @ 5/30/2007 5:54:00 PM # Q
cool, finally a positive post. I don't think everyone 'gets it' yet.

Sure you can get a windows laptop cheap as this with a cd burner/dvd and a hard drive, bigger screen, yadyad, but this baby is a new beginning for portable computers and I like it. Sure I'd like to see it at $399 after the rebate but it if comes with 8 gigs I'll go for it.

I have a desktop, 2 laptops (one for work Dell M90 and an aging 10" lifebook) and the lifebook is for surfing on the couch and I don't use the hard drive for cd/DVD anymore and the idea of an instant on internet device sounds really cool to me.

Now keep in mind I have the old Audrey and since I got the lifebook I didn't need the Audrey but it was a cool ideas for it's time and has since been hacked into a neat little gizmo, but the Foleo is coming at the right time.

I am disappointed to hear it doesn't have the calendar yet, but I suspect that will come soon, but still my treo works fine for that and I don't need the big screen for that function but I could see others wanting the address book and calendar on there for editing. Plus the onld Audrey could sync to palms address books and calendars and that was cool becuse you could have the wife calenar vica/versa.

I was looking for a replacement for my lifebook and this might be it. half the price of other laptops that had stuff I didn't use.

Yes there is a market for this, but will you carry it with your treo??? I doubt I will but great for around the house.

RE: I love IT !!!
Bmann @ 5/30/2007 5:57:32 PM # Q
>> The Nokia Anti-Internet Tablet has been out at least 1.5 years. Go check on how much software there is for it.

Well I'm not suprised about the Nokia not having apps, but the Linux/Palm community will jump all over this.

And the Nokia thingie is tiny like a phone but not a phone - WHAT??

Palm has a winner with the Treo and if the iphone doesn't want to play with this device then it's another strike against apple in my book.

RE: I love IT !!!
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 6:00:04 PM # Q
but this baby is a new beginning for portable computers and I like it.

Uh...no it isn't, and that is largely the reason why people are attacking it. It's an old idea that tried and failed for good reason, and no one wants.

Just wait for Q4 to roll around and let the incredibly low sales volume speak for itself.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com

RE: I love IT !!!
Bmann @ 5/30/2007 6:09:44 PM # Q
Uh...no it isn't, and that is largely the reason why people are attacking it. It's an old idea that tried and failed for good reason, and no one wants.

Really, please post a link to anther flash memory, instant-on Linux based laptop with Wifi and Buetooth and 5 hours of run time for $499, I must have missed ALL of them or something.

Look they said it loud and clear, this isn't a laptop replacment 'do all' machine. But there will be pleny of us out there that could use something like this.

Just get over the fact that the announcement wasn't an iphone killer.

RE: I love IT !!!
Dr Opinion @ 5/30/2007 7:12:00 PM # Q
> "...Really, please post a link to anther flash memory, instant-on Linux based laptop with Wifi and Buetooth and 5 hours of run time for $499, I must have missed ALL of them or something..."

Exactly.

I challenge anyone to find a 2 pound laptop for $500 period.

There's nothing like the Folio in the market. The Nokia has a tiny screen and no keyboard, and ultra-small laptops are $2000+ and much clunkier.

What are these FUD-spreaders thinking?

I'm actually offended that they think they can influence me with such drivel. :)

------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."

RE: I love IT !!!
Alpha1220 @ 5/30/2007 8:25:24 PM # Q
I think what is being said is that this 'larger than a handheld', but 'smaller than a standard laptop' niche concept has been tried many many times before throughout the 90s and early 2000s and that it has NEVER really taken off. Ever. There are a few examples of such devices being posted in the comments on this very page (near the top). Apple has tried. Brother has tried. HP has tried. etc.

You're right: I don't think it has ever been done before at this low of a price point(although, certainly, someone feel free to come by and correct me on this point). So yes, the argument could be made that the reason such an in-the-middle device has never taken off has been simply because of price. But I think that's a hard argument to carry. You can always tell the difference between a product that is hot but has a limited market due to its cost, and a product that just well ... isn't hot.

The other thing to keep in mind: yes, it's true that the foleo has that list of features you mention, which haven't really been gathered in a single device before. But that's a bit unfair to the past competition. You are failing to realize that, FOR THEIR TIME, most of these 'new niche' >handheld

It's not the lack of specs persay: there is something undesirable about these devices in this category. Something that doesn't allow it to spark the market, whenever its introduced.

Where is the Palm innovation to push itself beyond the prospects of all these ignominious predecesors? By tying it to a smartphone? Perhaps. I don't think so, but I'll wait and see (will be interesting).

Also (I'm ranting/rambling here, I know) I think Palm painted itself in a corner by pushing/hyping the whole 'third category' thing. Hype can and will kill. If they had quietly introduced this as a smartphone companion, I think it would have met far less resistance. I have a feeling that egos got in the way, and forced a 'good product' into the shoes of a 'pathbreaking' product, when it didn't belong there.

Hey, it is nice to here positive comments as well. And I will watch with interest to see if this does take off. But I don't think it will. And there is a reason that the comments are mostly negative, both here and on the net at large.

RE: I love IT !!!
Alpha1220 @ 5/30/2007 8:29:26 PM # Q
That 3rd paragraph should have read:

You are failing to realize that, FOR THEIR TIME, most of these 'new niche' >handheld

Sorry I wrote so much. Just pissed at Palm as usual :(



RE: I love IT !!!
Alpha1220 @ 5/30/2007 8:31:30 PM # Q
Apparently, something I'm doing in the comments is not working! Didn't there used to be an edit section. Let me try one more time before thee olde family dinner hour: I'm trying to say in the 3rd paragraph: the device specs from 2007 are impressive, no doubt. But, if you look back to the devices debuted in the 90s, they were similarly impressive FOR THEIR TIME. What the Foleo brings to the table relative to market in 2007, other devices brought to the table relative to market in the 90s.

If this doesn't work ... I give up :)

RE: I love IT !!!
Bmann @ 5/30/2007 11:17:40 PM # Q
I agree, I don't really see me carrying my M90, Treo and the Folio, but the Folio will have a good home next to my couch.

Now this all depends on the Browser. They mention issues with some video sites and I'm guessing 'youtube' etc. but that will come in time. The biggest road block these devices (audrey, Nokia thingy, Sony location free TV) is that that browser can't handle all the plugins like IE can. So if they keep on top of that issue things will be fine. If it does flopio then we could be left behind in the browser updates. But since it's linux it should live on and this might be a chance for change from Microsoft/Apple domination???? I willing to try it just for that fact alone. Microsoft=virus and Apple=controlled closed system.

Anyway, do what you want, it's America and I for one applaude the opportunity for choice.

INSTANT ON!!!!!!! I'm kinda jazzed about that. I sure this is the first of many devices with that because of Flash memory pricing diving.

RE: I love IT !!!
drw @ 5/31/2007 12:55:46 AM # Q
Here's my one person niche: I have a small 3 pound $2,000 laptop with my whole life on it. Problem: I'm afraid to take it out in public, afraid to leave it in my car, it's a little big to fit in my briefcase I carry everywhere.

I played with the nokia. It was too small, too slow, and too useless without a keyboard.

Where does that leave me: Several times a week I have to solve an urgent issue via email and I find myself asking, "if only I could get to an internet connected computer".

This Foleo would suit me just right. As Stephen Colbert would say, "NATION, notice the bullet points:"

* it's small enough to fit in my briefcase. I would have it always
* it's cheap enough that I wouldn't be afraid to take it out in public
* it wouldn't have my whole life on it so I wouldn't be afraid to leave it in the car
* email and internet represents 99% of my computing needs
* this device is EXACTLY what I need

---
David

RE: I love IT !!!
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:30:06 PM # Q
Then go buy THIS, for God's sake:

http://www.hanbitamerica.com/

It can at least do YouTube and play music!

Reply to this comment

Bottom line - Too Big!

sseale44 @ 5/30/2007 5:08:42 PM # Q
Real simple. I will never buy this thing because I can't put it in my pocket. If I wanted to *carry* something around (in additon to my phone), I'd pick a much-more-capable subnotebook or UMPC. Period.



Reply to this comment

Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549

Gekko @ 5/30/2007 5:12:28 PM # Q

Dell Inspiron 1501
Mobile AMD Sempron™ 3500+ (1.8GHz/512KB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic
512MB DDR2 SDRAM 533MHZ, 1 DIMM
60GB Hard Drive
FREE Shipping and Handling.
Dell Photo All-In-One Printers Starting at $49!
No Interest for 3 Months!5

$549
After $100 Off Instantly!
As low as $17/month6

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/services/inspn/1501_DNCWHA1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
Foo Fighter @ 5/30/2007 5:15:28 PM # Q
You can get notebooks cheaper than that. I was in Staples today and nice ACER portable can be had for $449.

-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
T_W @ 5/30/2007 6:15:30 PM # Q
Dell Linux Notebook - E1505N running Ubuntu 7.04 - $599

Intel® Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife™(glossy)
512MB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 DIMM
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 95

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
hkklife @ 5/30/2007 8:11:05 PM # Q
Look at my post from earlier today. You can get a DUAL CORE Turion X2 Dell with integrated Radeon video (better than the Intel GMA by far), 1gb of DDR2, an 80gb SATA HD, and a DVD burner + Vista Home Basic for $549.

Then if that's too rich for ya, Best Buy currently offers THREE name-brand laptops for $400. Two are Intel Celeron-M based and the other is an Everex C7. All have specs comparable to what Gekko just posted.

My point is that for between $400 and $550, the market is FLUSH with name-brand, widescreen Intl/AMD machines with optical drives running either XP, Vista or various distros of Linux. That combined with a dumbphone is far more versatile and far less expensive than a Treo + Foleo combination.

Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
drw @ 5/31/2007 1:16:12 AM # Q
Usually Gekko is on top of things, but this time he offers a 6.2 pound behemoth as a substitute for a carry everywhere lightweight instant-on small simple internet device.

That DELL would tear my rotator cuff over time. "dude, you're not only gettin a DELL, you're gettin shoulder replacement surgery"


---
David

RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
rcartwright @ 6/2/2007 3:09:06 PM # Q
Another thing that was only touched on eariler is not only are the low end PC laptops heavy (3x to 4x the weight) the Foleo probably shares the phone charger with your Treo So you shave off another pound or so. Now lighting up my travel kit by 5 to 5.5 pounds is non-trivial. Also the 5 hours battery life is with wi-fi ON. How many real world low end laptops get that kind of battery life?

I was initially very unhappy about the Foleo. But after thinking about it from a business standpoint and not a power user standpoint, I have decided to wait and get final specs and fondle the real deal before I pass final judgement.

"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

Reply to this comment

Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??

jeffhoward001 @ 5/30/2007 6:12:37 PM # Q
Was this release a bit of a inital let-down?, yes...

But after I got over the initial shock of realizing this wasn't what I expected, but could still be successful, my view started to change.

I think we're all in agreement that the initial release this morning had a massive built-up to a product launch of something that doesn't see all that monumental. So rather then getting stuck on this topic (which has clearly been beaten to death...) I asked myself two questions:

1. If Palm rushed the presentation of this new product, why?

2. Now that I'm over them screwing up the launch, what kind of potential does this new product enable in mobile computing, and is this just the first of many products focused on the "mobile power user" who needs more than the average smartphone offers?

3. Is there reason to believe that the actual launch will be substancially better then this curent *preview* of the product? What software offering used in conjunction with the bigger screen/keyboard would make it worth carting around a second device?

1. - I don't have a good answer for #1, which seems to be the focus of today's ranting... Sorry Palm, but I'm with everyone else on this one. Even if it had to wait another six months, I think it would be worth to have more applications or functionality to demo.

2. - Onto #2... I think this is the topic that could use more discussion. Rather then thinking of this as the "Flopeo" as some have cleverly coined it, I think Palm views the device as a stepping stone into a new paradigm. I currently use a Palm TX with an on-screen keyboard, tethered to a Samsung slim EVDO phone. It's a less common solution, but IMHO the Treo just doesn't cut it for really attacking email, large documents, and multimedia. The screen is too small, and the keyboard isn't that good. Using a device with a larger screen works really well, and I've even converted some of my friends who were WM smartphone users to a similar set up because they liked having the choice between a phone-only day, and a media-rich PDA day. I think if the device was a little smaller, and Palm really sold it as a "Rich Multimedia Device" instead of a Treo add-on, people would have an ENTIRELY different first impression, which leads into my third question...

3. - "There's HAS TO BE more to it Palm!" - When they actually release the product, will there be more too it? In my humble opinion, it they don't add additional functionality, this is going to be a flop(eee-ohh.. sorry, I couldn't resist). But if they can include a software suite that really takes advantage of the "rich multimedia device", then I think we'll have a winner. Coming from a seasoned phone-PDA-combo user, I have a pretty good list of things you need to make carrying a second device worth it:

- Productivity
* Ability to read/compose rich HTML email - You can already read clear-text
email on your Treo, so to make carrying the Foleo really pay off, it needs to
be able to display/create HTML email with bullets, numbered lists, and tables.
(Foleo *might* have the covered... TBA)

* Open/Edit all MS Office Docs - For a lot of business users (especially people
in sales and marketing) this is a big one. Viewing docs on most smartphones is
painful, and unproductive. Having the bigger screen would really pay off.
(again, Foleo *might* have this covered, but editing is must... TBA)

* Desktop-like Web Browsing - Some web pages are fine on you phone, some totally
suck. If you have important work to do that requires constant use of a web
page or web app, chances are you'd probably carry around the Foleo as long as
it supports proper desktop-like rendering. This is a MUST. Otherwise it's just
not worth carrying around another device.
(again, Foleo *might* have this covered... TBA)

- Multimedia
* A really good mobile audio solution - Let's be honest... the iPod isn't really
that great, it's just simple, and consistent! "simple and consistent" have
been the basis for Palm products since day-one, and I really think mobile
audio consumers are screaming for something that applies these principles with
a little more advanced functionality then the iPod. If the Foleo had out-of-
the-box support for WMA-based music services (i.e. Rhapsody & PTunes), good
syncing with the PC, and possibly even more advanced access like the new
Rhapsody client on Nokia's internet tablet. The "wow factor" would be huge,
and this might be the leaning factor for travelers who want more control of
their audio while working remotely (we all know that the PalmOS has some
diminishing returns when it comes to multi-tasking).
(I don't think they consitered this option...)

* A LEGAL and EASY TO USE movie solution - Can Palm please partner with someone
to create a one-click solution for LEGALLY putting your DVD's onto your mobile
device. We all know the technology is there... You could have a one-click
solution that only encoded the video to play on your device. Heck, if they did
a good job marketing this functionality, people may buy a Foleo just for that
functionality!
(definitely don't think this was considered, but the market is begging for it)


- Phone Integration
* Ability to command the Phone application when using the Foleo - Any time you
have the Foleo open and working, you should be able to control all the phone
functions from the Foleo (accept call, deny call, deny w/ SMS). They need to
assume that most users are going to leave the Treo in their pocket, so 99% of
the phone's functionality needs to be replicated on the Foleo to make it worth
the extra $$$. If you accept a call and don't have the bluetooth ear-bud
enabled, then it pipes the audio to the external speaker and mic according on
the Foleo. If you have the bluetooth ear-bud enabled, you can click "answer"
on the Foleo, and it will answer the call.
(Foleo may have some of this, but I doubt all of it)

* SMS/IM conversations replicated - If you have existing SMS or IM conversations
on your Treo, these should be replicated on the Foleo so you have an instant
transition between devices. It may seem like a little think, but all these
little additions add up to making the device worth carrying around.
(Foleo may have some of this, but I doubt all of it)

With all that said, I think you can sum up my post by saying, "You need neat, powerful, *wiz-bang* software to back up your big screen and keyboard if you plan on impressing this fickle mobile device market".

The potential is there, now Palm just needs some finishing game, and the humility to slightly revise the product in response to customer feedback.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)

RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
jeffhoward001 @ 5/30/2007 6:15:22 PM # Q
And by "two" questions, I really meant "three" :-p... Sorry, the scope of the post grew as I wrote it.

Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)
RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
Gekko @ 5/31/2007 6:41:36 AM # Q

"What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money." - David Aames, Vanilla Sky



RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:37:10 PM # Q
Gekko, I love that quote!

As for the Flopeo, Hawkins already admitted it can't do YouTube and the like, period.

So I really wouldn't expect it to play ripped DVDs.

The device as introduced is boneheaded in the extreme. And I don't expect it to improve at all in the on-sale version. (Even if it winds up running the 4 core PIMs -- is there a built-in speaker for alarms?)

Other more capable devices have failed. Other more capable devices are currently for sale (Pepper Pad 3: http://www.hanbitamerica.com/ ).

That Palm has apparently devoted a TON of resources to this while neglecting its core business of PDAs and then smartphones (I don't need to b*tch about the Treo; I don't own one, and based on what owners have said, never will!), is just astounding. If I was a shareholder, I'd be up in arms.

They've bet the farm. And they will now lose it.

Reply to this comment

still no T|X2

cbomberg @ 5/30/2007 6:15:38 PM # Q
I want a charging LED and vibrating alarm! I sure as heck don't want a Foleo.
Reply to this comment

Oh Dear God

analogue wings @ 5/30/2007 7:03:23 PM # Q
How many new Treo form-factors could they have developed with the time money and expertise they spent on this?

The horror...

*curls into fetal position*

*rocks*

*whimpers*

IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650

Reply to this comment

WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?

SeldomVisitor @ 5/30/2007 7:15:04 PM # Q
What the heck is a warning like THAT doing on the back of the Foleo!?

-- http://www.engadget.com/gallery/palm-foleo-hands-on/258105/

RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
braj @ 5/30/2007 11:12:12 PM # Q
They know it'll end up in the trash in no time.

RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
Ranakanth @ 5/31/2007 3:07:52 PM # Q
Hmm, guess they won't be selling it in Europe...

RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 3:09:54 PM # Q
Apparently they use a backlight to light up (or maybe just brighten up?) the display - didn't realize these things had backlights.

RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:42:01 PM # Q
I got some iPod accessories -- Y-adapter and the like -- at a 99-cent store here in NYC and was astounded to find huge warning stickers about LEAD on their backs. It turns out the sticker is required for sale in Calfornia. Might be the same case here.

BTW, did you know the Compact Fluorescent Bulbs being promoted contain mercury at levels that require *special hazardous waste crews* to clean up if the bulb is broken?
http://tinyurl.com/23oxpc

Reply to this comment

wow

oscarfowler @ 5/30/2007 7:15:32 PM # Q
This is exactly what I thought Palm (or Microsoft using WinCE) should've created! Except somewhat smaller, lighter and in tablet form. Oh, and back in 2000.

Reply to this comment

almost....

plm922 @ 5/30/2007 7:48:58 PM # Q
if this thing was a tablet with a touchscreen and no keyboard with wifi and decent multimedia... if only

reformed lurker
RE: almost....
hotpaw03 @ 5/31/2007 12:43:55 AM # Q
Tablet computers haven't been selling as well as ultra-light notebooks, at least to consumers. More people seem to want keyboards in that size category.
Reply to this comment

Underwhelmed

PauseBreak @ 5/30/2007 8:21:19 PM # Q
Other than thinking the Foleo is like bad night out ("I got all worked up for that), I'm really going to have to wait and hear from folks who actually use it. Here are some initial thoughts (all based on how I use my devices and from Palm's web presentation on the Foleo, so YMMV):

1. Sounds like the Foleo syncs with the Treo and only syncs select PIM info such as calendar and email. I think the Foleo needs to sync with the computer or home server - not just the Treo. Otherwise, you'd need to sync things twice (once to the Treo then to the computer/server). What happens when you need to replace your PDA or Foleo and the whole "user name" issue with syncing?

2. Contact support and Outlook support were not mentioned. So far, it's only compatible with "Outlook Mobile and Versamail". Compatibility with Wndows (XP and Vista) and their PIM products would be important.

3. Document versions/syncing. I don't know if they mentioned the document software (I'd guess it's Docs2Go). Editing, tracking, and maintaining documents through a 3rd party vendors (such as Docs2Go) is a minor headache for me already. Throw in a 3rd device (the Foleo) and it only gets worse. One option may be something like OpenOffice on the Foleo, but I don't recall the amount of on-board memory for handling additional apps. I recall they said the on-board flash memory is expandable and accessible. So running fuller document suites may be possible.

4. The WiFi seems to be limited to 802.11b (according to the Foleo site), so I have reservations about that.

5. Additional costs from your carrier. Footnotes on page 1 of the Foleo page:


1 Requires compatible phone with Bluetooth® wireless technology. Email requires data services on the phone from a mobile service provider at an additional cost. ISP and/or VPN may also be required. Within wireless service coverage area only.

2 A dial up networking plan from your service provider may be required at an incremental cost above and beyond the service provider's regular smartphone data plans.


6. Security. While the device can be password protected, I can see security issues with it being easily stolen (small, no locks, easy to pick up and run). It may come with a Kensington lock, it wasn't mentioned though.

7. Memory. It wasn't mentioned (other than that the Foleo uses flash memory on board) and it's a concern. Can I multitask? Read email and edit a document without a noticeable drop in response time? Read email and use Skype with a WiFi connection with good quality?

8. Usability. Most of the folks I know with Treos do get push mail. Generally, though they're not using the device as an email client. They get an email that needs a response and they use the Treo to call. Often this is while walking down the hall/street. Folks just aren't going to carry around something like this for email-only. You need a table or surface to set it on. It doesnt' appear it can be operated using only one hand, like the Treos can. The Treo is seen as a way to extend being in contact - not as a replacement for the computer/office.

9. It's one more device. I'm hoping for device convergence, not device divergence.

There is room for improvement and, as mentioned in the webcast, there hopefully will be lots of people developing for it. So the concerns may be moot in the future.

But, "Negative Ned, isn't there anything likeable about the Foleo?" you might ask. Well, yes:

1. Portable.

2. Linux kernel and Palm OS. Could be a great combination.

3. Bigger screen and a full-size keypad.

Yikes. I think that's it!

Brent

Reply to this comment

'only $499*' *- after $100 mail in rebate

painted_dog @ 5/30/2007 10:31:20 PM # Q
hmmmm iPhone or Foleo ....

... um i think the answer is clear. [steve j wins]


... or another way to look at this is...

$199 Treo after carrier subsidy + $499 Foleo ...

or $549 for a dell notebook w/ XP...

or $599 for a dell notebook w/ ubuntu (oooh easy to develop Linux!!! ;-) )...

.. i don't see the treo/foleo combo winning out.

-painted dog

Reply to this comment

Laptop meets dumb terminal - only dumber

drbuzz0 @ 5/30/2007 10:36:42 PM # Q
So basically... it's a laptop, which you need a cell phone to make work? Like, a laptop that doesn't work on it's own.

Also, it's not a full blown laptop computer, it's actually more like a dumb terminal or something like that. A WebTV or some other poor attempt at getting computer-like function without going to full-blown X86.

So it's basically a bit smaller than some laptops, although some laptops are also smaller than this. But it's kinda cheap compared to most laptops this size.. Well, unless you include the price of the phone...since apparently it doesn't have any internal high speed wireless, other than wifi...

So what we have is effectively a slim-ish laptop except it doesn't actually run full blown PC software... and also, it's kinda cheap... sorta


Wow... this is.... useless...

I was sincerely hoping for something cool like a treo-ish thing with added several gigabytes of internal memory and useful stuff like Wifi and USB host and GPS or something like that. They made it sound like it would be something great.

This is sad...

Reply to this comment

I already have an HP TC1100...

Adif @ 5/30/2007 10:55:55 PM # Q
...which is better than this in nearly every way (except price and weight). I don't carry that around either, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT IN A POCKET. Why would I want one of these over my T3, WHICH DOES?

RE: I already have an HP TC1100...
itster @ 5/30/2007 11:37:04 PM # Q
what's more amazing is that the 700p update has not come out
Reply to this comment

Oh dear !

rikster @ 5/30/2007 11:39:43 PM # Q
All I can do is groan......

Looks like the end of Palm to me. How can they spend years developing something that should have been released in 1996 ?

RE: Oh dear !
hotpaw03 @ 5/31/2007 12:39:41 AM # Q
The did release products like this in the 90's. They were either too expensive or too heavy. Some had closed or weird OS's that limited the size of the developer community. Many had almost no consumer retail presence.
RE: Oh dear !
hkklife @ 5/31/2007 12:43:55 AM # Q
This is truly Palm's nadir. The lowest of the low by a wide margin. The best way to salvage this thing is to slash the price down to $299ish and offer a $200 rebate on top of that when you purchase one with a new Treo.

I have a feeling that within a year's time Hawkins standing up there holding the Foleo while wearing his purple Banana Republic dress shirt is going to rank right behind Yankowski whispering the secret of his gold-threaded suit on the IPO day...



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

Reply to this comment

WHERE IS THE UPDATE!?!

itster @ 5/30/2007 11:40:46 PM # Q
Jay is doing one of these tricks:
look here in this hand "pretty huh" shinnnnyyyyyyyy...

where is the rom update for the 700p?

Jay: look at this pretty machiiiiiiiiine.. "shiiiinnnyyyy"

Useless piece of junk! where is my update for the 700p!?!?

Look at this shinnny 755p... ooooooooooh aaaaaaaaaaaah

JAY!!! I WANT THE UPDATE TO MY SHINY PIECE OF CRAP YOU SOLD ME LAST YEAR!!

Reply to this comment

Buy Now...

Talon07 @ 5/31/2007 7:00:50 AM # Q
Better buy it now because when they stop making it, it will become a collectors item.

Reply to this comment

Should have been PC companion, not mobile companion

craigdts @ 5/31/2007 10:03:31 AM # Q
If Palm must go this route. . . it should have been billed as a PC companion & it should have been a dumb terminal for your email on your office or home computer. Palm should have stuck with the lifedrive market (companion to PC). That would be a different market than treo users. They could then still allow developers to write for it and add features as they let it mature. It just doesn't make sense to sync your foleo to your treo to you PC. Would have made more sense if you could (1) sync foleo to pc and/or (2) sync treo to pc. They are 2 different ways (markets) to handle the data.

Perhaps IT departments would like cheap light laptops that simply accessed data already on your office computer. Home users could have had a powerful home computer connected to internet (that did all the processing work) then take the foleo with them to access and use the PCs programs.

There it wouldn't take 5 years to develop this.

Reply to this comment

Hello? Is any one out there?

peitron @ 5/31/2007 1:00:11 PM # Q
Hello? There's already a product that allows me to edit my emails on a fullkeyboard with screen. It's called Outlook on a Laptop. And if I want it to sync in reak time with my PDA, the solution is called Blackberry.

What are this people thinking? Why would I spend and extra $500 on this device. Why?

DUD, definately a DUD. Palm will bought out my a cell phone company in less than 18 months, mark my word.

_____________________________________________
IBM WorkPad 30 (a.k.a. IIIX) > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3 > T|X
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx

Reply to this comment

So...anyone ask for the source code yet?

SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 3:32:34 PM # Q
Giggle.

RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
mikecane @ 5/31/2007 3:46:22 PM # Q
Yeah, that's a question I had to.

Which flavor of Linux is this running?

What's the core of it?

How open is the open source of it?

Hey, is there any BeOS lurking in there?

RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
Ryan @ 5/31/2007 3:53:31 PM # Q
They aren't commenting on any of the specifics now (kernel, gfx etc and other libraries included), supposedly it will all be revealed after it goes on sale.
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
SeldomVisitor @ 5/31/2007 3:56:41 PM # Q
Yeah, I think they can even refuse to hand over the source code until the device is actually on sale.

RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
hotpaw03 @ 5/31/2007 3:59:45 PM # Q
You only have to offer the source code when you deliver the product (linux based). Summer doesn't officially end until late September.
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
bhartman34 @ 5/31/2007 4:09:11 PM # Q
It's apparently running pLinux.

I haven't programmed much in Linux (other than a little bit of messing around with Glade) but I think there's enough of a Palm development community that uses Linux that it's got a decent shot.

For example, I see something like pilot-xfer and KPilot or JPilot being pretty successful with this. If you could get those things ported, then you'd have the ability to not only sync your e-mail, but also your calendar and other PIM functions and app installs individually, rather than having to slog through an entire HotSync.

Hopefully those in the Linux Palm development community are already thinking about these kinds of things. I think there's potential here.

RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
cervezas @ 5/31/2007 4:46:35 PM # Q
You only have to offer the source code when you deliver the product

...and only then to people you distribute (i.e. sell) the product to.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Reply to this comment

Palm's future.

VampireLestat @ 5/31/2007 6:42:02 PM # Q
Can someone please explain to me how Palm plans to ensure future growth?

- iPhone is about to invade the Treo market.
- Colligan has destroyed the handheld base.
- Retailers are removing Palm products from their shelves.
- I don't think anyone wants the Foleo.

I was expecting the Foleo to be a super modern/compact handheld with cell voice, but it is anything but.

Can someone enlighten me?

RE: Palm's future.
VampireLestat @ 5/31/2007 7:22:29 PM # Q
Look at this handheld/cell:

http://www.expansys.ca/zoompic.aspx?type=item&i=148761

That is a mobile computing device to be taken seriously.
That is along the lines of what I was expecting from the Foleo announcement.

I guess I can just go ahead and buy it right now and switch for good to WM since it does not appear that Palm understands.

RE: Palm's future.
analogue wings @ 5/31/2007 7:38:55 PM # Q
You know what really sucks? HTC is the same company that built the Treo. That device could have been a Palm. Sigh.

IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650
RE: Palm's future.
hotpaw03 @ 5/31/2007 8:39:18 PM # Q
The handheld base is shrinking all by itself. Growth will likely not come from creating geekier pure handhelds. What other market opportunities there are for the Palm brand is an interesting and open question.
RE: Palm's future.
T_W @ 6/1/2007 9:07:04 PM # Q
Can someone please explain to me how Palm plans to ensure future growth?

- iPhone is about to invade the Treo market.

PC Guys can't make a phone

- Colligan has destroyed the handheld base.

The handheld market is dead. No one anywhere wants one, not even you. Just ask the market analysts.

- Retailers are removing Palm products from their shelves.

Everyone knows most smartphone buyers travel to airports to make purchases anyways. Plus there's the prestigious Palm Closet^H^H^H^H^HStore near 30 Rock


- I don't think anyone wants the Foleo.

It is the most exciting and lucrative new product ever. Just ask Jeff Hawkins or Michael Mace.

I was expecting the Foleo to be a super modern/compact handheld with cell voice, but it is anything but.

People don't want a handheld. They want a $500 laptop screen for their smartphone.

Can someone enlighten me?

You're welcome.


iPhone killer released - the new HTC Touch
ChiA @ 6/5/2007 6:47:47 PM # Q
Lestat, the HTC P4350 is already yesterday's model, this is what HTC will be releasing in Europe just over three weeks from now:

http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=149713
http://www.mobileburn.com/pressrelease.jsp?Id=3425

The HTC Touch

It uses the same concept of a finger gesture interface but using Windows Mobile and with the usual: wi-fi, bluetooth, 2 megapixel camera etc.

It'll be on sale in the UK a day before the iPhone's official US release so I guess it's going to wipe the smug smiles off those Apple people.

What hope for the Treos crushed between these two devices?

RE: iPhone killer released - the new HTC Touch
T_W @ 6/5/2007 7:21:29 PM # Q
Can you kill a device that hasn't been released yet?

Still looks like Wince.

The iPhone 'YouTube' ads are rather...fine
SeldomVisitor @ 6/5/2007 7:36:57 PM # Q
Nuff said.

Reply to this comment

My thoughts on the folio

jca666us @ 6/1/2007 2:59:43 AM # Q
Too limited - I love how everyone keeps saying it'll develop, grow, future versions, etc.

Does Palm have three years waiting for this to develop?

It doesn't even have decent video capabilities?!?!?!?

I compare this development to that of the iphone - Apple produced a slick, well thought out device - that shows that care and thought were put into the two years it was being developed.

In two years, Palm pulls this rabbit out of their corporate ass?

A stripped down, dumbed down, laptop? To me, it's like the Audrey with the touchscreen removed and a keyboard added on.

Two years to produce a half-baked laptop? I christen it the craptop - a crappy laptop.

Reply to this comment

So why DID Ken Wirt leave?

SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 8:48:26 AM # Q
A couple posts from elsewhere made 4 years ago or so:

The first contemporaneously notes the original stance of Wirt, Colligan, and, in particular, Hawkins on what "converged" can mean:

== "...IMHO, Wirt - Handheld SVP - is in almost direct conflict with
== Colligan/Hawkins et al since he overtly said SEPARATE devices was
== the way to go and, of course, the others overtly said CONVERGED
== devices are the way to go - the nearterm future should be politically
== interesting..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=272891&postcount=3

And the second and third, followed by the more generic fourth for the whole picture, notes the change in definition of "converged":

== "Nope - I'm talking about a phone-sized phone and a PDA-sized PDA..."

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=219683&postcount=4

== "...Anyway - it looks to THIS reader like PalmOne is for SURE heading
== to what I mentioned with their redefinition of "converged device" to
== allow multiple communicating devices (!!!). As such, perhaps that
== "device" mentioned up there will be Coming Soon! (albeit maybe not so
== converged that it's piggybacked...)"

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=338530&postcount=9

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=33796

Hey! I wonder if Ken Wirt was the REAL Idea Man behind PALM's products!

Reply to this comment

Timely SPAM from DELL

SeldomVisitor @ 6/2/2007 10:10:14 AM # Q
Just got a SPAM this morning from Dell touting their devices. Here's one of the featured ones:

-- http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=19&kc=111&oc=DNDEHA1&x=3&y=12

Is this a no-brainer?

RE: Timely SPAM from DELL
hoodoo @ 6/5/2007 8:43:55 PM # Q
Sure it's a no-brainer. My Inspiron is a 6.5 lb beast that, along with the lead power brick, practically pulls the shoulder strap off my bag, not to mention that it will barely fit under an airplane seat. It's a good machine except for the size.

That being said, perhaps I would/could use a Foleo if it could run VPN.

RE: Timely SPAM from DELL
Gekko @ 6/5/2007 9:13:31 PM # Q

so get the 4 pounder, silly.



Reply to this comment

MS unit not palm unit unless...

zire102001 @ 6/3/2007 8:17:13 AM # Q
this is a Microsoft unit not a palm OS unit, as the palm OS is dead, Microsoft owns the company now and this is what, bulky, unreliable, etc... Again once Microsoft gets ahold of the company in question that company then crumbles and the remaining staff, worker, etc.. are helping bill gates - Microsoft - and have basically gone astray.. :( and the Palm OS was good too..

Microsoft owns the world.
RE: MS unit not palm unit unless...
vorlon @ 6/6/2007 3:53:03 PM # Q
You should become an analyst or columnist.

Reply to this comment

Crimson Foleo

Gekko @ 6/5/2007 5:25:56 PM # Q

you say you want innovation? just wait until the Crimson Foleo gets here this Christmas! now THAT'S innovation!!!


RE: Crimson Foleo
mikecane @ 6/7/2007 9:06:55 AM # Q
ROTFLMAO!!!

Wait... no black one?

Damn, can't Palm get ANYTHING right?!

Reply to this comment

Palm not the first to use the term 'Mobile Companion'

ChiA @ 6/6/2007 6:27:53 AM # Q
Palm can't even come up with an original description; Ericsson had come up with the phrase Mobile Companion way back in 1999. Does anybody here remember the MC 218?

http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/pda/emc218/index.htm

The MC stands for Mobile Companion. It was better than the Foleo too as it had a touchscreen. It wasn't even the first one commissioned by Ericsson; they had earlier Mobile Companions based on Windows CE.

We know what happened to Ericsson's Mobile Companions, it doesn't bode well for Palm.

RE: Palm not the first to use the term 'Mobile Companion'
SeldomVisitor @ 6/6/2007 8:03:03 AM # Q
Now THAT'S just sad.

RE: Palm not the first to use the term 'Mobile Companion'
vorlon @ 6/6/2007 3:49:50 PM # Q
MC218 was Ericsson's badge-engineered version of the great Psion Series 5mx. Anyway, the death of Psion consumer business was a result of a couple of things: no demand for modem and Ethernet PCMCIA-cards as those started to become standard on laptops, the slow start of Bluetooth, and also the slow start for DAB digital radio in Europe. So they bought vertical market company Teknlogix from Canada, created Symbian, and abandoned all consumer products.

Reply to this comment

Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing

ChiA @ 6/6/2007 6:42:05 AM # Q
Considering that the Foleo:
- has a smaller (10") screen than most laptops (usually 15")
- has no hard disk
- has no optical drive

which are the parts that suck the most juice in a laptop, it seems pathetic that the Foleo can only achieve a battery life of 5 hours.

I had a 12" iBook about 4 years back that could get three and half to four hours worth of use with access to the hard drive and optical drive. Needless to say, battery life declines with time.
This prompts another question about the Foleo, does it have a user replaceable battery?

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
vorlon @ 6/6/2007 3:41:08 PM # Q
Considering that the Foleo:
- has a smaller (10") screen than most laptops (usually 15")

It's the resolution that matters.

- has no hard disk

OMG! And no floppy drive!

- has no optical drive
which are the parts that suck the most juice in a laptop, it seems pathetic that the Foleo can only achieve a battery life of 5 hours.

The five hours is supposed to be on a bright screen with Wi-Fi on.

I had a 12" iBook about 4 years back that could get three and half to four hours worth of use with access to the hard drive and optical drive. Needless to say, battery life declines with time.
This prompts another question about the Foleo, does it have a user replaceable battery?

Yes. It's not made by Apple… Anyway, having changed "un-changeable" batteries to a Treo 270 and many iPods, who cares?

RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
ChiA @ 6/7/2007 3:45:45 AM # Q
It's the resolution that matters.

Yea, because there are so many 10" screens with 2500x1600 resolution that gobble up more power than those 17" screens which only have the low 680x400 resolution.

What is puzzling about the Foleo is that it has a relatively short battery life despite the fact it lacks features which consume the battery i.e. large screen, hard drive, optical drive and yes, floppy.

Anyway, having changed "un-changeable" batteries to a Treo 270 and many iPods, who cares?

The last thing someone wants to do whilst travelling is start fiddling with screwdrivers to open up their electronic devices.

The Foleo is aimed at people who are away from their desktop, otherwise what's the point of the Foleo and Treo? All the more reason to have a long battery life and/or a way of easily swapping batteries whilst on the road. There are two big screws on the back of the Foleo which hint the possibility of a swappable battery, so I shall wait until Palm actually puts some detailed specs on their site.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein

RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
vorlon @ 6/7/2007 5:50:41 AM # Q
The last thing someone wants to do whilst travelling is start fiddling with screwdrivers to open up their electronic devices.

http://scifidesktop.org.uk/WallpaperStore/Actors/Richard/Richard_D_Anderson-MacGyver_001.jpg

I meant changing dead batteries, then one of these is handy:
http://www.wenger.ch/scripts/Modules/Products/listOne.aspx?idProducts=191&idn=99
http://www.victorinox.com/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=350&lang=E

There are two big screws on the back of the Foleo which hint the possibility of a swappable battery, so I shall wait until Palm actually puts some detailed specs on their site.

The Compact Flash card is under the battery, so if the battery wasn't removable, changing CF cards would be challenging. Anyway somewhere it was confirmed that the battery is swappable, don't remember where (Brighthand, treo|central).

RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
ChiA @ 6/7/2007 8:09:41 AM # Q
Rhetorical question:
Can I bring your swiss army knife or multi-tool solution through airport security to use on a flight?

The Foleo can still be used on the flight with the wifi and Bluetooth off.

Gotcha!

RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
vorlon @ 6/7/2007 9:47:34 AM # Q
The Foleo can still be used on the flight with the wifi and Bluetooth off.

Then the battery lasts longer.
Since Foleo does have a swappable battery, take an extra. Or something like this:
http://www.boxwave.com/products/versachargerpro/index.htm

In case of wanting to play something on an Treo 270 during a 13 hour flight, just ditch the screws. It still stays in one piece.

Reply to this comment

To accompany the Fooleo, the Goofoff!

SeldomVisitor @ 6/8/2007 8:14:09 AM # Q
RE: To accompany the Fooleo, the Goofoff!
mikecane @ 6/8/2007 9:03:26 AM # Q
WTF?!!? Is this a bad joke? An early 2008 April Fool?

Palm is going to go after... the Sony MYLO?!!?

WTF is my PDA with REAL RAM?!!?

RE: To accompany the Fooleo, the Goofoff!
SeldomVisitor @ 6/9/2007 2:03:54 PM # Q
Reply to this comment

Arrrgggggggh!!!!

burmashave @ 6/14/2007 12:55:50 PM # Q
A monkey could run Palm better. Hawkins, Dubinksky, et. al. were handed a product that nearly survived all their attempts to destroy it. A casual scanning of these and other forums over the years would have allowed them to develop products that would sell to an extremely dedicated installed base. It's as if they are laughing at one sick joke on us poor users.

I've had PDA's of all stripes. At the moment, nothing can come close to my Tungsten T3 in terms of software, stability and utility. I have a phone. I don't want my PDA to be a phone. I would gladly shell out big bucks for an updated T3. How hard is that?

LifeDrive was a cool idea, but again, a few hours in these and other forums would have told Palm what it needed and at what cost.

And what the heck is a "Foolmeo?" Anybody with experience in the PDA/Portable market would have killed it during concept phase, unless, of course, those working the concept were passing a crack pipe. Or mebbe I'm smoking crack because I don't want a PDA phone that works with a non-Win portable that I'd have to carry with my Win/Lin Laptop. Note that I am a Linux user.

PLEASE, OH PLEASE, someone produce a PocketPC with an Palm emulator that will run Palm applications at near native speed. I'll buy it.

In the words of Yoda:

A better PDA crap a could I.



RE: Arrrgggggggh!!!!
cervezas @ 6/14/2007 5:50:56 PM # Q
A casual scanning of these and other forums over the years would have allowed them to develop products that would sell to an extremely dedicated installed base.

Of what? 450 users?

I'm not saying that Palm has only that many dedicated users. I'm saying that that's about how many who are the customer type that posts on these forums. All male, all gadget freaks, all with serious Internet addictions, and, by and large, all needing to get real lives. Why don't you try showing the Foleo to someone who travels a lot on business and has to lug around something that either weighs or costs three times the Foleo just so they can do email and edit office documents? You might be surprised at the response you get.

Look, I realize that years of experience in product marketing isn't a requirement for posting on PIC, and I hate to sound condescending, but there really *are* people who have very different needs when it comes to mobility than you and Palm *probably* has a better idea of this than you. I don't know whether the Foleo will succeed or not, but I have talked to a fair few business smartphone users who think they could use something like it.

I'm with you, though: I'd like to have a smaller simpler phone that gives a solid, high-bandwidth pipe to the Internet for an updated T3. The difference between us is that I have a pretty good idea that we're a small (though highly vocal) minority in the market--too small for a company the size of Palm to risk a lot of resources on, now. So, get a Dell, dude.

Er... well, get a Sony or a Garmin or a Toshiba, then.

Ah... well, you get the idea.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Arrrgggggggh!!!! and double Arrrgggggggh!!!!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 6/14/2007 9:46:06 PM # Q
Look, I realize that years of experience in product marketing isn't a requirement for posting on PIC, and I hate to sound condescending, but there really *are* people who have very different needs when it comes to mobility than you and Palm *probably* has a better idea of this than you. I don't know whether the Foleo will succeed or not, but I have talked to a fair few business smartphone users who think they could use something like it.

Look, I realize that years of experience in product marketing isn't a requirement for posting on PIC, and I hate to sound condescending, but there really *are* people who have very different needs when it comes to mobility than you and Palm *probably* has a better idea of this than you. I don't know whether the LifeDrive will succeed or not, but I have talked to a fair few business users who think they could use something like it.

Beersy, stop playing the Palm Apologist Fool(eo). I hope by now you've figured out what the FOOLeo is all about. Its current implementation, is nothing more than a testbed for Palm to experiment with the syncing between data stored on both smartphones and wirelessly connected servers. The current FOOLeo is to Palm's future what the Handspring Treo 180 was to the Treo 700p.

It appears that Palm ran out of time in its attempt to deliver a cohesive new platform consisting of smartphones and micro laptops running PalmLinux and connecting to remote servers. Much as was the case with PalmSource with their Cobalt disaster, Palm elected to ship whatever it had (the FOOLeo) in the lab, just to save face.

THIS is what Jeff Hawkins was trying to create:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9453/#133606

Instead, what we have now is little more than a clamshell AlphaSmart Dana. If Hawkins is expecting that developers are going to save his bacon (AGAIN) by writing the software that Palm was incapable of producing itself, he's sadly mistaken. It will be a shame if this whole "Palm smartphone as PC" concept dies on the vine - Hawkins' idea had (has?) the potential to revolutionize the computer industry.


TVoR

Reply to this comment

Foleo will die

specterss @ 6/20/2007 12:34:00 PM # Q
There were some examples in such device (Apple eMate, WinCE notebook).
SubNotebooks are way better.

But Via NanoBook is the ultimate killer of this Foleo.
Lighter, x86 system and software, 4 cards, usb,bluetooth,wlan,lan
optional dvb,gsm,gps.. 30gb hdd (maby later replaced with ssd). For some $600.



Reply to this comment

Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'

SeldomVisitor @ 6/22/2007 8:42:17 AM # Q
ONE Browser Page Only for Fooleo???
Gekko @ 6/22/2007 11:32:55 PM # Q
>So you can't even keep a search page and an individual result page open at the same. It's going to be pain the rear even for sites like ebay.

And I m typing this on a Nokia n800 with multiple opera windows open.

Is there at least a "system tray" ttype space so you can iimpliment gaim notification in the future?

looks like a dealkilller. beersie and colligan and hawkins will have you believe that your desktop experience will be equal to or greater than windows. think again.

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
cervezas @ 6/23/2007 10:17:01 AM # Q
I'd be surprised--and disappointed--if Opera worked much differently on the Foleo than it does on the N800: one instance of the browser can have many windows open to different sites and the windows always fill the screen. From his description I can't tell if this reviewer tried to open multiple windows.

Being able to switch quickly between several browser windows is one of the things that makes the N800 so useful as compared to a Treo, so I hope the Foleo does the same.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Gekko @ 6/23/2007 11:04:02 AM # Q
>I'm pretty sure than you can only have one instance of Opera running at a time. The Foleo really operates like a PDA rather than a laptop. Apps open maximized, and you can't minimize or close them. You just launch another app, and if it's an app you're coming back to, it remembers where you left off.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023&page=2


as a side note - there seems to be some consternation over what the fooleo power charger might look like in terms of size, weight, and bulk. not sure if it is technically possible, but it i think it would have been optimal to use the SAME charger as the Treo - then you could charge your fooleo from your treo travel and car chargers as opposed to lugging along yet another power brick.

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
mikecane @ 6/23/2007 11:37:59 AM # Q
>>>And I m typing this on a Nokia n800 with multiple opera windows open.

WTF?!!? Gekko, you got an N800?!!?

It's true then: your brain IS damaged...

OTOH: Last night I pulled out the &^%$ing 770 after yet ANOTHER crash trying to do ANY WiFi on the LifeDrive...

...I was shocked. I caught myself using, in COMPARISON you understand, the word "fast" to describe WiFi with the 770...

If Palm thinks what the LifeDrive delivers is WiFi, god help us all when it comes to the Flopeo. I wouldn't be surprised if it's single-pane browsing. It's something Palm would do.

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
mikecane @ 6/23/2007 11:41:49 AM # Q
OK, I see now.

Gekko was his usual sloppy self. He didn't do the quoting correctly. HE didn't buy an N800. A TC poster did.

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
mikecane @ 6/23/2007 11:46:31 AM # Q
Man... ONE browser window?! HTF can I blog with that limitation?! How to grab article title, paste into blog, article link, paste into blog, snip a quote, paste into blog -- with just ONE window?

And as someone else pointed out, that is horrible for ebay use alone.

ONE Browser Page Only for Fooleo???
Gekko @ 6/24/2007 10:46:54 PM # Q

Ben doesn't seem to want to answer my question.

----

Ben - forget about Tabs for a second - how many web pages can I have up at once on the current Foleo? Can I have multiple web pages open at the same time? Say Google, eBay, and Palm.com all up at the same time just like in Windows/IE? Or am I limited to one browser page/instance at a time?

Thanks.

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023&page=4



RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Gekko @ 6/25/2007 7:06:37 AM # Q

answer from Ben -

>Because of this, there's only one "Web Browser" application, and at the moment, it only views one web page at time. There's limited support for pop-up windows, but they act like dialogs and must be dismissed before further navigation in the main window.



RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
hkklife @ 7/11/2007 8:05:22 PM # Q
Mike;

Palm made some drastic improvements in the stability of their wi-fi implementation between the LifeDrive & the TX. Seriously. The TX might be a bit faster but it's the fact that its wi-fi is SO much more stable than the LifeDrive's is what amazes me.

Are you running a ROM version 1.0 or 2.0 on your CFified LifeDrive, btw?



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
mikecane @ 7/23/2007 4:28:09 PM # Q
It's the latest LD update from Palm.

Stop it. Blazer sucks and there's just no getting around that.

Opera Mini and iUniverse (is that its name) suck too.

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
hkklife @ 7/23/2007 5:09:38 PM # Q
I know Blazer sucks. But the wi-fi implementation on the LD (regardless of which update it's running) is LESS STABLE and MORE CRASH PRONE than the TX or even the ancient T|C. That's all I am saying. I'm not making any excuses at all for Blazer but it's actually an OS/hardware problem with the LD and not the fault of Blazer.



Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
freakout @ 7/23/2007 5:19:06 PM # Q
Opera Mini and iUniverse (is that its name) suck too.

Opera Mini 4 actually looks quite promising, as does Universe. Trouble is both are still in beta.

Anyhoo, it's not like other mobile browsers don't have their own problems. Exhibit A: iPhone's hacktastic Safari!

Right after the first Hello World app, the New York Times is now reporting that security firm Independent Security Evaluators has discovered the first flaw in iPhone's security, taking "complete control" over all data and call capabilities by using a simple Web page, apparently just loading it and without any user intervention whatsoever.

In the words of the company's principal security expert and ex-NSA agent Dr. Charles A. Miller:

"Once you did manage to find a hole, you were in complete control."

According to the John Schwartz reporting for the NYT:

"The site injected a bit of code into the iPhone that then took over the phone. The phone promptly followed instructions to transmit a set of files to the attacking computer that included recent text messages -- including one that had been sent to the reporter's cellphone moments before -- as well as telephone contacts and e-mail addresses."

Scary? It gets worse: they can use your iPhone to make calls - all without any user intervention, just by loading the web page.

Oh dear...

Three years in development yet not ready for prime time
SeldomVisitor @ 7/23/2007 6:06:06 PM # Q
We already saw the supposition that the Fooleo was "rushed" (!!! after =THREE= years!?) out the door because competitors are releasing their own Real Soon Now, but apparently PALM "rushed" (!!!) too fast:

-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1314792&postcount=162

Reply to this comment

I am hopping from foot to foot - how about you!?

SeldomVisitor @ 7/11/2007 6:35:22 PM # Q
RE: I am hopping from foot to foot - how about you!?
cervezas @ 7/12/2007 10:42:35 AM # Q
Yeah, kinda hard to think of why some day trader who spends every waking hour in a chair in front of his PC would even need a mobile phone, much less a smartphone or a Foleo. This gadget is for people who spend most of their time away from their desk.

I for one am *very* enthusiastic, both as a user and developer.

David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: I am hopping from foot to foot - how about you!?
twrock @ 7/12/2007 2:37:19 PM # Q
...who spends every waking hour....

So you think he sleeps? I was assuming his complete lack of sleep could help explain things. But maybe you're right.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
Reply to this comment

The FOOLeo's specs finally revealed!

The_Voice_of_Reason @ 7/22/2007 11:32:55 PM # Q
Finally someone cut through Palm's B.S. and posted some FACTS about the FOOLeo.


http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1312804&postcount=18

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1312903&postcount=24

Consensus at Treocentral seems to be the FOOLeo has nice quality hardware but crappy software.

And if there was any doubt that PalmOS 5 is dead, the OS timeline diagram in the Palm CFO's presentation seals it. Will FOOLeoOS + PalmOS Classic emulator = PalmLinux (PalmOS 7)???

http://investor.palm.com/eventdetail.cfm?eventid=38425

RE: The FOOLeo's specs finally revealed!
mikecane @ 7/23/2007 4:29:34 PM # Q
As if that news will discourage the enthusiastic retards here who have been drooling to buy one.

They deserve it.

Reply to this comment

It is understandable why PALM would want to get the Fooleo out

SeldomVisitor @ 7/25/2007 12:52:28 PM # Q
== "...Oh, and in case it hasn't sunk in yet: $150."

-- http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/25/medison-celebrity-150-of-linux-laptop-for-the-people/

Gack.

Reply to this comment

Nail in the coffin

tankute @ 8/15/2007 8:12:23 AM # Q
Have you seen HTC Shift? Sure it's more expensive - but a lot more convenient.

http://www.dynamism.com/htc-shift/main.shtml

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/htc-shift-the-cellphone-company-finally-goes-umpc/



IIIx -> T|T -> Treo650

RE: Nail in the coffin
twrock @ 8/15/2007 11:25:49 AM # Q
"Nail in the coffin"? I don't think so. These are two very different devices targeting very different purposes. The Foleo may be dead for any number of reasons, but I don't think the Shift is going to be one of them.

As crazy as it sounds, if you offered me both devices, I'd probably take the Foleo because it is at least a device I can use. Since I'd have to carry either device in some kind of bag, I might as well be carrying a full-sized keyboard and decent sized screen. (Ok, so there are some kinds of monster cargo pants out there that would make the Shift "pocketable", but that is not a realistic option for me.) I guess that's the problem I'm having every time I see a "UMPC". I just keep wondering how people can really use the thing. It's just too big for a pocket, but too small to be truly useful.

I actually like the vision that Palm is trying to sell here. The idea that your smartphone is your mobile computer and you just need to "accessorize" it with useful tools is quite interesting. I don't know if the Foleo is the right device for the mix or if they can pull it off, but it does make sense to me.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

RE: Nail in the coffin
hkklife @ 8/15/2007 12:29:37 PM # Q
A much better concept would be if Palm sold a POCKET SIZED TX-style, or (gasp!) an iPod-style device that was primarily battery, radio, and LCD. Then you could accessorize it with accessories like their fantastic Bluetooth keyboard, some kind of "desktop dock" or perhaps a smaller clip-on thumboard.


Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P

RE: Nail in the coffin
twrock @ 8/15/2007 8:35:22 PM # Q
POCKET SIZED TX-style

You KNOW they aren't going to do it. I'm with Pat on this one; they keep one eye on PIC and make sure they don't do anything we want. It's their way of punishing us for being so critical. :)

The foldable keyboards are great. I keep one in my backpack and it takes up little more room than a PDA anyway. But, I have a very thin piece of plywood that fits in the computer slot of my backpack and serves as a tray for both my foldable keyboard and for my laptop computer (because it gets too hot sitting directly on my lap). (Of course I stained it nicely to look like a dark maple, etc.) There is something to be said for a device that could sit on my lap and not need the board. And there is something to be said for a device that I don't have to unfold and then squint at the (relatively) tiny 3.7" screen, all the while wondering if the next sway or bump of the plane/train/automobile are going to throw it onto the floor.

When I put all of the "solutions" to those problems together, out comes something looking quite like the Folio. And I really am thinking that unless it is a truly pocketable device, 10 inches is the minimum screen size I want to be staring at. Seven inch screen and a barely "peckable" keyboard are not gonna cut it for me. Anything smaller, and it had better fit into a normal sized from pants pocket.


Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/

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Usefulness of Foleo depends on what it will do

Chinesemusicfan @ 9/3/2007 4:24:01 PM # Q
Foleo is a little bigger than I think it should be, but what really counts is it's usefulness. IF it can display a true WSIWG copy of a remote desktop, and cope with entry in any language on a remote desktop it will sell like crazy. In many instances it will also solve the Email problem since it will reside in Outlook on the remote desktop. Biggest pain will be limitations of the bluetooh connection having to disable your earphone.

Reply to this comment

Did it really exist?

smiley1081 @ 1/21/2009 1:31:17 AM # Q
Or was it a really convoluted trick to force everybody to give Palm as dodoing?

RE: Did it really exist?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/21/2009 5:47:44 AM # Q
Yes, indeedy - it was significantly more real than the Pre.

RE: Did it really exist?
freakout @ 1/21/2009 12:46:31 PM # Q
"More real", eh.

Either something exists or it doesn't, SV. Pre does. We have pictures. (ever read the articles on the site you're reading?)

RE: Did it really exist?
mikecane @ 1/21/2009 1:00:48 PM # Q
I saw SV's Comment too. /ignore

RE: Did it really exist?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/21/2009 1:09:15 PM # Q
No, I gave up reading articles about the Pre because they're all content-free gushing without asking hard wquestions - The McNamee Show was especially comical.

RE: Did it really exist?
freakout @ 1/21/2009 1:19:45 PM # Q
Okay, so what are some of these "hard questions"?
RE: Did it really exist?
abosco @ 1/21/2009 1:26:45 PM # Q
The Foleo was pretty real too. There were prototype models and the launch partners had their own units apparently. Plus, we've seen quite a few videos of it in action, and not just in Hawkins giant mitts.

It's fair to call the Foleo vaporware, in my opinion.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Did it really exist?
hkklife @ 1/21/2009 1:32:49 PM # Q
Please send in those Q's, SV. Ryan and I were there at CES and Tim's talked to a substantial amount of folks in the industry about the Pre. Alongside Dieter at TC, we probably have the best chance at answering your questions than anyone.

Fire at will!



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RE: Did it really exist?
twrock @ 1/21/2009 4:34:07 PM # Q
Hey, I've got no problem with anyone asking hard questions and taking an HONEST critical look, but someone with an agenda is being completely ridiculous at this point. "Significantly more real." Give me a break. Why does anyone even bother replying to this drivel? It's smelling like stinky troll bait.

I think Mike's got this one right. /ignore


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

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Apple on Fooleo

Gekko @ 1/22/2009 2:26:25 AM # Q

hmmmn....Apple isn't impressed with current Netbook hardware/software.....imagine what they thought of Fooleo?


Jan 21, 2009

how about those sub-$500 mini-laptop "netbooks" that PC companies like Asus and Acer - but not Apple - are peddling?

On Apple's conference call today, COO Tim Cook said the company is "watching that space," but it's not too impressed with what it's seen so far.

"...Right now, from our point of view, the products in there are principally based on hardware that's much less powerful than we think customers want, software technology that is not good, cramped keyboards, small displays. Et cetera. We don't think that people are going to be pleased with those type of products. But we'll see."



RE: Apple on Fooleo
mikecane @ 1/22/2009 12:35:20 PM # Q
Gekko, you have less consistency than a color-swapping chameleon.

So Apple also thinks your beloved Dell's netbooks are total crap too.

And yeah, compared to MSI and Samsung and Acer, they are.

RE: Apple on Fooleo
akalefty @ 1/22/2009 2:11:26 PM # Q
So Apple also thinks your beloved Dell's netbooks are total crap too.

Gee, I thought that was my "misinterpretation". Are you simply that transparently inconsistent, or do you actually have some sort of problem with your short-term memory?

In any case, I'm sure the folks at Chevy think BMWs are "total crap", too, for whatever that's worth. The fact is that netbooks, as a segment, have come out of nowhere to sell on the order of some 10 million units in the past year. Regardless of what Apple "thinks", people are buying netbooks in increasing numbers.


RE: Apple on Fooleo
hkklife @ 1/22/2009 4:55:28 PM # Q
Lefty makes a very good point. Sony and Apple, while certainly makers of some very fine products, have never been synonymous with "value".

And while Dell makes some superb fullsize laptops & some fairly decent desktops, their netbooks are total crud compared to Acer/Asus/Lenovo/MSI/Samsung and even HP.

Apple has no business trying to compete in the netbook market because they CANNOT. And people are ranting & raving over the recent mild upgrades to the $999.99 Macbook...look at what kind of Wintel system you can buy for a grand these days. Blows all of Apple's stuff right out of the water, IF you can live with the various Windows quirks. Apple's charging a huge premium for their aesthetics & casing, since the innards are now merely comprised of last year's PC hardware.

I'd personally rather just build a Hackintosh but that's just me.

Palm failed to see the attraction of "powerful" netbooks like the original EEE and that was one of the (many) fundamental flaws of the Fooleo. Apple and Sony are basially in that same boat now. M$ is crying the blues right now over netbooks manufacturers running low-cost XP licenses...it's still better than having 'em run some flavor of Linux, OS X, or a pirated XP install, isn't it?

It's so funny to see how netbooks continue to be gobbled up by consumers but everyone in the industry hates them. I spoke to two Intel reps at CES. I told them I loved my EEE but they needed to get it in gear and come up with a more compelling platform for the Atom than the moldy old 945GSE...and the Atom N270 needed a major peformance boost. They got incensed and started squealing about netbooks being designed for people who "don't care about performance". All they wanted to do was steer my attention to some of the higher-cost (and higher-margin!) C2D ULV machines on display nearby. Essentially the same thing happened at the MSI and Asus booths as well.

In these dire ecomic times, manufacturers should be delighted to see consumers purchasing *anything* in droves regardless of whether it's a $400 netbook or a $1000+ "real" notebook.


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RE: Apple on Fooleo
mikecane @ 1/22/2009 6:11:10 PM # Q
For all the pricing slander against Apple you have done, it's very convenient to forget how quickly the iPhone went from $600 to $400 to $199.

And you are bordering on Dumbass of the Year by saying Apple CANNOT (your caps) compete with netbooks. Compete in what way? Price point? Sony didn't with the VAIO P. Even hp's initial netbook offering had a jaw-drop price - which was especially stunning given the crap VIA CPU in it. Colligan didn't think Apple could compete in phones. Don't follow that path of Ed's. You keep think Apple should basically put out an all-plastic MSI Wind running OS X. Why? You can buy an MSI and slap OS X on it yourself. Oh, you want an official Apple logo on it? The quality that guarantees comes at what's called a premium.

And gee, for someone whose Abcess OS is going to conquer the world, that other guy seems to have a lot of free time lately. I guess Abcess is busy preparing their bankruptcy papers!

RE: Apple on Fooleo
hkklife @ 1/22/2009 6:50:34 PM # Q
No, you misunderstand me totally, Mike.

I totally give you the point on the iPhone price freefall. But also do not fail to take into account the the TCO of that device AND the fact that it's basically been an aberation in the electronics world due to any number of factors (Apple putting price pressure on suppliers, the lucrative iTunes revenue, heavy subsidization by AT&T etc etc etc). When was the last time something THAT popular dropped THAT much in price THAT quickly? I mean, it took LCD TVs a number of years to see their prices slashed to 1/3 of what they were.

I don't THINK Apple should even attempt to play in the all-plastic <$500 netbook realm. Why should they when all the people who care have already, as you stated, slapped OS X on a bone-stock MSI Wind that you can get for under $350 now?

My point is that Apple should just (for the forseeable future, at least) totally ignore the netbook market b/c people that buy netbooks are in no way,shape or form competing with Apple for sales. Sony should have ignored the Netbook market as well, given the likely pitiful sales figures the VAIO P will end up with. HP totally missed the boat 2x in a row with their Mininote line but they'll ultimately wrangle out a decent chunk of marketshare due to their sheer muscle and their domestic retail presence (Costco, Office Depot etc) where guys like Asus, Lenovo and MSI have minimal presence if any.

Look at how many people have bought iPod Shuffles & Nanos when you can get, say, a comparably priced Sandisk Sansa that's not as flashy but has a screen, FM tuner, microSD expansion slot etc. Yet when was the last time you saw some uber-cool hipster sporting a Sansa? Again, Apple CANNOT compete feature for feature at every price point with the big Asian firms...and why should they care, the Apple branding is going to command a certain price premium and carry the still-enormous Apple cult cachet. And as long as Apple has the iTunes ecosystem integration and sticks to their (usually) standards of quality, they can get away with omitting "essential" features like flash memory card slots and removable batteries.



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Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2

freakout @ 7/8/2009 12:54:18 AM # Q
Chrome OS netbooks sound an awful lot like what webOS Foleos would be:

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html

The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. For application developers, the web is the platform. All web-based applications will automatically work and new applications can be written using your favorite web technologies. And of course, these apps will run not only on Google Chrome OS, but on any standards-based browser on Windows, Mac and Linux thereby giving developers the largest user base of any platform....

We hear a lot from our users and their message is clear — computers need to get better. People want to get to their email instantly, without wasting time waiting for their computers to boot and browsers to start up. They want their computers to always run as fast as when they first bought them. They want their data to be accessible to them wherever they are and not have to worry about losing their computer or forgetting to back up files. Even more importantly, they don't want to spend hours configuring their computers to work with every new piece of hardware, or have to worry about constant software updates. And any time our users have a better computing experience, Google benefits as well by having happier users who are more likely to spend time on the Internet.

Who's going to be the first to release? If Foleo 2 is in the works at Palm (and I reckon it still is, although Colligan's departure has dented that dream a little), they're going to want to speed things up a bit. Google says it wants Chrome OS products by "second half 2010".

RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
jca666us @ 7/8/2009 3:49:03 AM # Q
Foleo2 is a pipe dream freak - lay off the pipe and compare google chrome os to what we do know - the original foleo.

google chrome os is running on netbook class hardware - said hardware is magnitudes better then the garbage inside of the foleo.

For example, my lenovo S10 has 2 gig. of ram, and a 320 gig. hard drive.

I'd expect the chrome OS to make reasonably good use of the netbook hardware...from what I've read, it sounds like it will resemble jolicloud.

RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
nastebu @ 7/8/2009 5:21:27 AM # Q
I really hope Palm aren't wasting their energy chasing Foleo 2. They need to stay focused on improving webOS and getting out quality handhelds. The Pre is a great first step, but it's not enough to ensure long term viability.

What could a Foleo 2 really add anyway? The netbook market is big, but with very thin profit margins and tons of powerful competition.

RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
SeldomVisitor @ 7/8/2009 9:24:39 AM # Q
Google isn't "taking on" Palm; they are crushing it under their considerable mass.

Is this New Thang the same as Palm's Next Great Thang? Yeah, more or less.

And THAT is Palm's stupendous problem now - Android and Chrome are EVERYWHERE, WebOS isn't even out of Beta.

RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
mikecane @ 7/8/2009 1:56:30 PM # Q
This is what happens when you have Palm programmers at Palm and Palm programmers at Google. A clash is inevitable.

Let's see how Android is absorbed into Chrome OS.

Microsoft is the big loser.
And Apple better be watching its back.
And Palm ... well, it was a nice 2009 for you.

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And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat

SeldomVisitor @ 8/24/2009 4:57:28 AM # Q
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
freakout @ 8/24/2009 5:12:09 AM # Q
I plan to junk my Eee next year. Been wondering what I'm going to replace it with. That actually looks like a really nice option.

still, I'm going to hold out and see what the ChromeOS devices look like. Plus, there's always the mythical Foleo 2...

(Incidentally, I love it whenever someone revives this thread. Foleo 1 really was Palm's PR nadir, wasn't it.)

RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
Gekko @ 8/24/2009 6:23:39 AM # Q

please stop perpetuating the myth that palm invented the netbook with the fooleo. it's revisionist history and it's offensive and insulting.

RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
DarthRepublican @ 8/24/2009 9:53:56 AM # Q

please stop perpetuating the myth that palm invented the netbook with the fooleo. it's revisionist history and it's offensive and insulting.

Insulting to Palm maybe since they were on the verge of creating a whole new market and threw it away because of poor execution and lack of will to pull the trigger. But the form factor and keyboard of the Foleo were better than most modern netbooks at a time when that product category didn't yet exist. So yeah, I would say that Palm did invent the netbook with the Foleo and failed to realize the potential of the product much as Xerox invented the GUI and left it to Apple and Microsoft to actually put out a product and make money off it.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
hkklife @ 8/24/2009 10:29:11 AM # Q
Sorry, Darth, but I gotta side with Gekko on that one.

Prior to the Fooleo, you had the OLPC (what I primarily credit for starting the netbook craze), various Psion machines, stuff like NEC's Win CE units from the late '90s and early '00s (see here: http://tinyurl.com/lpnf8n) and even older stuff like Atari's Portfolio or the original Tandy Model 100.

Palm beat Asus to their original EEE announcement in 2007 by, what, 2 weeks? And of course, Asus had hundreds of thousands of units shipping into the channel while Palm was in the processing of aborting the Fooleo entirely. A netbook per se is more of a full-powered (ie 1GHZ+ and downsized Wintel x86 architecture). The Fooleo is more like the early ancestor of the smartbooks (without the integrated connectivity) that I predict are going to hit the market with a resounding thud.

And I could almost assure you that the weakest EEE PC from 2007 would still possess more horsepower than a Fooleo 2 had Palm stuck with the concept. Look, people bitch and moan about not being able to stream 480p+ video on netbooks or play any decent 3D games NOW. The lack of multimedia capabilities or any integrated storage doomed the Fooleo from the start and in the past 2 years a lot of people have come to rely on Flash-based streaming media, despite all of its inefficiencies.

I WILL give Palm plenty of credit for emphasizing on having a relatively large, high-res screen and a decently-sized keyboard. But the Fooleo had in its innards what was essentially (IMHO) the guts of an aborted LifeDrive 2. Same passively cooled 416Mhz Intel PXA CPU, no video acceleration capabilities, and dual memory card slots CF& SD. Sound familiar?

P.S. For the record, while I love the netbook concept, I see Intel and Microsoft eventually smothering the life out of the category. If they don't kill it entirely, they are going to keep it on line support. They've gotta protect their margins on CULV & full-sized notebooks! I liked the Intel of 2005-2007 (scared of AMD and firing on all cylinders to innovate at a breakneck pace) much more so than the Intel of now (slow, stingy, arrogant and moving at a glacial pace, just like how they used to be).
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RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
freakout @ 8/24/2009 6:37:10 PM # Q
To trot out the old quote again...

Hardware driven innovation cannot be afforded by the market any more. There is no money in it. There will be no market for it. Computers are boring.
......
However, the desktop PC is crap. It's rubbish. The experience is so bloated and slowed down in all the things that matter to us. We all own computers today that were considered supercomputers 10 years ago. 10 years ago we owned supercomputers of 20 years ago.. and so on. So why on earth is everything so slow? If they're exponentially faster why does it take longer than ever for our computers to start, for the applications to start and so on? Sure, when they get down to the pure number crunching they're amazing (just encode a video and be amazed). But in everything else they must be unbelievably slower than ever.

Computers of today may be 1,000 times faster than they were a decade ago, yet the things that matter are slower.

It's still true. They can keep cramming faster and faster hardware into netbooks and they still won't be able to overcome the general bottlenecks of desktop OS's. I love my Eee but can easily recognize its shortcomings.

The real value in a Foleo 2 would be in using an optimized-for-mobile OS, rather than uber-powerful hardware.

(Digging up that quote from the 2007 PIC archives was fun. Beersie was still kicking, and Cane & Bosco still hated my guts. Good times...)

RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
DarthRepublican @ 8/24/2009 10:07:07 PM # Q

To trot out the old quote again...

Hardware driven innovation cannot be afforded by the market any more. There is no money in it. There will be no market for it. Computers are boring.
......
However, the desktop PC is crap. It's rubbish. The experience is so bloated and slowed down in all the things that matter to us. We all own computers today that were considered supercomputers 10 years ago. 10 years ago we owned supercomputers of 20 years ago.. and so on. So why on earth is everything so slow? If they're exponentially faster why does it take longer than ever for our computers to start, for the applications to start and so on? Sure, when they get down to the pure number crunching they're amazing (just encode a video and be amazed). But in everything else they must be unbelievably slower than ever.
Computers of today may be 1,000 times faster than they were a decade ago, yet the things that matter are slower.

It's still true. They can keep cramming faster and faster hardware into netbooks and they still won't be able to overcome the general bottlenecks of desktop OS's. I love my Eee but can easily recognize its shortcomings.

There's a reason why Windows XP is so popular on netbooks. It's smaller and faster than newer versions of Windows on their slower hardware. So the choice of OS hides their shortcomings somewhat.

Having said that, there is a lot that can be done to optimize any computer, particularly given the bloated crapware that computer companies tend to stick on their computers. I think that one of the reasons why Windows 7 is already so popular long before it ships (besides the fact that Vista sucks) is that it represents a fresh start for users. You can blow away all the crap that originally came with your computer. (I just built a new Shuttle PC with Windows 7 and didn't even need to install Shuttle's drivers on it, Windows 7 ran all the hardware with not effort.) When you get rid of that stubborn two year old install of Norton Antivirus and all the other crap that HP and Dell install on your PC by installing Windows 7 cleanly, suddenly your old, slow PC can get a new lease on life.


The real value in a Foleo 2 would be in using an optimized-for-mobile OS, rather than uber-powerful hardware.

Ultimately that was the dream. The point of the Foleo wasn't its hardware prowess but rather a legacy free OS that didn't need such powerful hardware. Now with ChromeOS as a possible future upgrade, the dream is back. The Android install on my T-Mobile G1 already looks more like a desktop OS crammed onto a phone. A beefed up version of Android or a cut down Ubuntu distro built around Chrome might fit more naturally on a netbook than Android does on phones and and more naturally than other Linux distros do on netbooks.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
abosco @ 8/25/2009 4:46:51 AM # Q
You're still a prick, Tim.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
freakout @ 8/25/2009 5:11:54 AM # Q
^^ This is because I didn't wish you a happy birthday on Facebook, isn't it.
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
hkklife @ 8/25/2009 9:01:30 AM # Q
The desktop pc (primarily, the WIntel platform) is going to MANDATE that hardware manufacturers give users the choice of a bloatware nuke option at startup and/or have a "rollback" mode that restores Windows to its fresh, virginal state. I'd personally never buy a retail PC and the first thing I do when I get a new laptop is reformat and purge the factory OS install and tweak/optimize/streamline things.


Microsoft is actually reducing the OS footprint and unbundling stuff people may not want (Messenger, Windows Mail etc) yet the hardware companies keep piling on more and more bloat. And the most recent batch of netbooks are shipping with a disturbing amount of bloatware (Gateway, Toshiba, Acer etc).

True, an ieal Fooleo 2 in THEORY would definitely need the optimized-for-mobile OS but it'd STILL need relatively decent hardware. Say, GMA 500-level graphics capbility and a decent SSD (not the pitiful ones used on the entry-level EEEs). But it ain't cheap or easy to write a new OS fron the ground up. That's why we are forced to just keep purging, tweaking, and streamlining our OSes and throwing more hardware at it.

Not to go too terribly far OT, Darth, but I definitely agree with your comments. I pulled out an older PC that I built a few years ago (Intel 915P mobo, 3Ghz Celeron, Radeon X300SE, 1GB DDR RAM) and tossed Win 7 on it. It ran quite nicely without any tweaking or overclocking. Much, much better than Vista would have. It's sad that MOST users' experience with Win 7 will be on a pre-loaded, bloated, sluggish retail PC OR from doing an in-place upgrade (carrying over all of the bloat from their previous Vista install) instead of doing a nice fresh install and a clean reformat. Microsoft's not helping matters by making Win 7 so damn difficult to do a clean install unless you buy the hideously overpriced full version.
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The man behind the netbook craze

Gekko @ 11/20/2009 7:31:00 AM # Q

The man behind the netbook craze
Posted by Michael V. Copeland, Senior Writer
November 20, 2009 6:00 AM

A few years ago rivals mocked Jonney Shih, chairman of Asustek, and his purse-size laptop computers. Millions of netbooks later, Shih is having the last laugh.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/11/20/the-man-behind-the-netbook-craze/

RE: The man behind the netbook craze
mikecane @ 11/20/2009 9:06:39 AM # Q
He is the one man who could topple Apple. Fear him.
RE: The man behind the netbook craze
Gekko @ 11/20/2009 10:12:47 AM # Q

"In Buddhism you learn to accept everything, to let it flow through you," Shih says. "Then you can slow down and think clearly."

"Most people think Buddhism is passive or about escape," he says. "It's not. It's about confronting what's in front of you with a clear and flexible mind. That might be a hot day or your competition, but you accept it and do everything the best at that moment."

"You need to be a lion. A lion has position in the jungle," Shih says. "So we kept driving the performance, quality, and innovation of our motherboards — we kept our leading position in the jungle. But I realized that at the same time you have to have big market share. You need to be a giant lion."

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Four Years To The Day: Asus Announces Son Of Foleo

mikecane @ 5/30/2011 6:47:57 AM # Q
Four Years To The Day: Asus Announces Son Of Foleo
http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/four-years-to-the-day-asus-announces-son-of-foleo/

OMG. The horror.

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