Comments on: Palm Officially Introduces the Foleo
Palm has officially announced the Foleo, its first smartphone companion product. The Foleo has a large screen and full-size keyboard with which to view and edit email and office documents residing on a smartphone. Edits made on Foleo automatically are reflected on its paired smartphone and vice versa. The device stays in sync via a bluetooth connection and it also includes a built-in Wi-Fi radio for general Internet connectivity.
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RE: Hmmmmm....
The price will tell the tale for me, but so far it looks way too big.
From previous article:
U.S. availability for Foleo begins this summer with pricing expected to be $499 after an introductory $100 rebate.
RE: Hmmmmm....
This reminds me a bit of the first wave of WinCE based laptops in the late 90's that touted instant on and fast access to applications. Or it reminds me, you know, of laptops.
RE: Hmmmmm....
No touch screen/tablet feature-all I can say to this is WTF!
Size- as a 40 something attorney I have stayed away from the Treo till a few weeks ago because of small screen size, no WiFi and dislike for the thumb board. Right now I use a TX/Treo 680 in somewhat the same way as Palm sees the Foleo/smartphone pairing. Sync is a kludge and seamless sync has some appeal for me. I would submit that for the segment of the population that can't really see the small screen of a smartphone, this has some merit. Of course, the people who say I already have a laptop, I would respond as some others have that if its as light as advertised and as fast as advertised and if it has some built in flash drive, then there might be a market for it.
Alas, I may well not be part of that market.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
RE: Hmmmmm....
This will sell in the literally tens of millions. Time for the Palm board to order more ivory back scratchers.
Er No...
Oh dear. I can't believe this was what Palm had up their sleeve. I can't help being reminded of the OLPC and that doesn't cost $4XX. Very poor show, Palm. You never listen, you never learn.
Bye Palm
Fish
RE: Hmmmmm....
But as it is, I just think it's too small of a niche. I already must carry my laptop for work, the functionality in this doesn't come close to replacing it, so why would I waste space on it? It really doesn't make sense. I suppose some extremely casual users could have some use for it, but I think they've carved a very small niche with this product.
Palm: Do this with e-ink and a touch screen a-la the Irex Iliad (but with the battery life of the Sony Reader), and you've got a customer. Otherwise you are going down a well trodden path of stripped down laptops, internet only devices, email only devices, web-tv, etc. I suppose people think that they are going to get a million grandmas online with these devices, but that never seems to happen. They just don't fit the need for the rest of us.
RE: Hmmmmm....
"You know what, if it had an e-ink display and really good battery life measured in days, I'd go for it. I need something to replace my paper notebook and magazines that I carry everywhere.
But as it is, I just think it's too small of a niche. I already must carry my laptop for work, the functionality in this doesn't come close to replacing it, so why would I waste space on it? It really doesn't make sense. I suppose some extremely casual users could have some use for it, but I think they've carved a very small niche with this product."
...i absolutely agree.
-painted dog
Palm FOOLeo®: Fool me twice, shame on me. I won't get FOOLeoed...
When I first saw one of these, I thought it was actually just a sick joke. An elaborate in-house April Fool's joke. TreoMan assured me it was real. That was the day I finally gave up on Palm. The FOOLeo® is a product that needlessly diverted attention and resources from Palm's core products, resulting in fatal stagnation of both the Treo and Palm's traditional PDA lineups. Palm is too small to spread its (severely limited) talent around, especially on redundant designs. This company is so clueless that there is no way they will ever recover from the burden of being run by utterly IDIOTIC LEECHES that only care about plundering and parasitizing the company until the very end. Most parasites are smart enough to ensure that don't kill their hosts. Not Palm's management. These bloodsuckers have bled the company dry as they've continued to collect paychecks and cash in massive stock options.
The FOOLeo® is an answer to a question no one is asking. Let's see: Almost as big and almost as expensive as a Real Windows device, yet unable to run Real Windows apps? Break me off a piece of that! I'll take twenty! Any device much larger than the Nokia N800 that lacks Real Windows is pointless in this day of ever-improving Windows UMPC, Real Windows micro laptops and smartphones. The FOOLeo® niche simply does not exist. And organisms without a niche invariable die quickly.
Eventually it will be leaked that long ago Palm knew this product was doomed. The problem was that so much time + resources had already been wasted on it that by the time someone finally stepped in and said, "W T F is going on here? This is utter crap that will never sell." no one had the cojones to pull the plug on the project in 2005 when they should have. So now we have the latest equivalent of the Palm i705/DUNGSTEN T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt. As with Cobalt (PalmOS 6), failure to quickly amputate a gangrenous limb (product) will be remembered as the coup de grace that (mercifully?) ended Palm's existence.
What Palm should have released was a simple clamshell "PalmTop®" design along the lines of a CLIE UX50. With a 4 inch screen. Preferrably OLED. In 2005. With a COMPLETE software suite, including email, VPN, NetFront browser, PDF viewer, Word/Excel/Powerpoint-compatible suite. Keep It Simple, Stupid. The FOOLeo® with its current specs may have been a viable product category 4 or 5 years ago when I had urged Palm's product managers to consider a small PalmOS laptop with the simplicity of the AlphaSmart Dana. The key would have been to adhere to the KISS principle and not try to add features that the company's engineers were too clueless to easily implement. Palm is too talentless a company to be trying to reinvent the wheel itself. The FOOLeo® is the hardware equivalent of Cobalt: an unfinished, fundamentally flawed idea that is arriving 2 year too late to matter and will result in the death of the company. Maybe Palm should offer the FOOLeo® in a Special Edition Cobalt color?
The only questions that now remain are these: Now that it has finally been revealed that Emperor Hawkins Has No Clothes and that the Secret Third Business (STB) was a sham all along, who will buy Palm? What value does Palm offer a potential suitor? What assets do Palm have in their portfolio that a company big enough to purchase Palm couldn't purchase cheaper elsewhere or easily copy/develop for themselves?
Palm's "assets":
- A dead PDA lineup that hasn't seen significant improvements (or even a slightly refreshed new model) in years.
- A rapidly-aging set of bulky, shoddily-built smartphones that haven't seen significant improvements made to a 4 year old design. (There isn't much in the latest Treos that wouldn't have been in the 2003 Handspring Treo 600 had Handspring not been living hand-to-mouth + on the verge of bankruptcy when the Treo 600 was originally released.
- A laughable FOOLeo® product that - BY DEFINITION - has no target market that exists outside of Hawkins' dreams. (It's sad to see Hawkins embarassing himself trying to pimp the FOOLeo®. Remember the rhetoric we previously were subjected to re: the i705/DUNGsten T5/LifeDrive/Cobalt? It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.)
- The phone numbers of HTC, Solectron and Inventec.
- Rights to rickety old FrankenPalmOS and the freedom to continue adding more bugs/maggots to the OS until the PalmOS corpse finally putrefies.
- Several hundred million $$$ in cash.
- The Palm and Treo names
"Who's gonna bid it at a billion dollar bill? Five, will you beat it on a billion and five, bid it on a billion and five, a billion and five. Who's gonna bid it at a billion and five dollar bill?"
If PalmSource and Chrysler (twice!) can get sold, Palm has a chance. It all boils down to how greedy the company's board is. Kinda hard to bluff when everyone at the table knows the cards you're holding are utter crap, isn't it, Eric?
TVoR
Copyright, 2007
TVoR, Inc.
RE: Hmmmmm....
Takes a long time for those competitors to show up, eh?
Third business.
m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
RE: Third business.
But out of the box... I don't know. Is the lead solution on this thing--email--really going to be enough to make someone who doesn't carry a laptop around say "I need this thing"?
The software looks beautiful and simple. And the instant-on, instant-off aspect is more important than I think many people give it credit. I was really hoping we'd have a touchscreen. I can see developing some great business software that syncs between this and a smartphone. But I need Palm to get people to buy these first, and I'm not seeing the market driver here.
This is going to look to shareholders like Palm is trying to go head-to-head with Microsoft. And it's going to look that way because that's exactly what Palm is doing!
Wow.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Third business.
On the other hand, people who want bigger keyboards and displays than their smartphones supply will want more of everything and will go for laptop once they're stuck carrying the extra baggage anyway.
UMPCs will blow this thing away, or the market for it simply doesn't exist.
May You Live in Interesting Times
RE: Third business.
2008 will bring:
http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl
Foleo. Flopio is more like it!
Hey, you Nokia N800 users. This gonna make you switch? Thought not!
Why would I want to shell out $500-$600 bucks for something that looks like it was ripped off from HPs old sub-subnotebook (I can't recall the model now; someone will dig it up somewhere) and has far less capability than a notebook that costs maybe 1.5-2x as much and can do, minimally, A HUNDRED TIMES MORE?
My Reaction To Palm’s New Foleo Device
http://tinyurl.com/2wxw4s
Next!
BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?
RE: Third business.
Thanks Palm, at least we have something to giggle at your funeral ;-)
IIIe -> m505 -> T3 -> Treo650 -> Treo680
RE: Third business.
You can Fooleo Somemeo Peopleo Somemeo Time.But can't Fooleo Me!
Who could do that better than yourself, Mike?
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Third business.
"BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?"
..separately, i would've expected the Foleo to be listed under Accessories ;-)
-painted dog
RE: Third business.
I wonder how many flops Palm can sustain?
RE: Third business.
Go suck on your Nokia. And swallow. And hopefully choke.
RE: Third business.
RE: Third business.
RE: Third business.
>>>UMPCs will blow this thing away, or the market for it simply doesn't exist.
2008 will bring:
http://tinyurl.com/2mq6fl
Foleo. Flopio is more like it!
Hey, you Nokia N800 users. This gonna make you switch? Thought not!
Why would I want to shell out $500-$600 bucks for something that looks like it was ripped off from HPs old sub-subnotebook (I can't recall the model now; someone will dig it up somewhere) and has far less capability than a notebook that costs maybe 1.5-2x as much and can do, minimally, A HUNDRED TIMES MORE?
My Reaction To Palm’s New Foleo Device
http://tinyurl.com/2wxw4s
Next!
BTW: Anyone else notice Mobile Companion has replace Mobile Manager (LifeDrive) in the Palm site sidebar?
Did you notice the lifdrive is no longer for sale on Palm's web site? Any idea's what it means?
Budget play?
- Instant on vs. my 10 second resume from hibernation. Not a big deal when you have to set it up on a surface to type anyway.
- Sync with the Treo's documents and email. My email is always on the server anyway, I just access it via IMAP. So I see no advantage there. It would allow me to keep master copies of documents on the Treo if I want to.
- Price. Folio costs $500, my p1610 cost $1600. That is a big difference.
So the only real advantage is a lower price. For that lower price you lose Windows application compatibility and the ability to use only one computer (assuming you will still keep a desktop somewhere).
I hope Palm is working hard on getting a Remote Desktop client running on this or it will have very limited appeal. I can imagine a remote desktop client running on this tied to something like Amazon's virtual computing services being very cool.
RE: Budget play?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux+vnc&btnG=Google+Search
RE: Budget play?
So How Much Storage
So much for 'pocketable'
Email over Wi-Fi to come? No hard drive?
So far, this is a device that, by itself, does nothing.
I know they say that they are "actively supporting third-party software developers", but this is one developer who learns from the past. Palm needs a scapegoat to blame for their poor implementation and third party applications have been blamed in the past.
I predict an underwhelming migration of developers and even worse adoption by the non-geeky public. How many people want to drop over $1,000 to get two devices and be tethered to a wireless carrier?
RE: So much for 'pocketable'
-painted dog
music and memory?
1. will it support/enhance a phone for music playing? The ipod's been successful long enough that they must know music is a big part of people's mobile experience. I don't see anything in the initial release info about music support. Good support for music (how this would work on this device remains to be seen) would help support for the iphone. Jeff indicates they want to support lots of phones, and the initial iphone looks like it might benefit from keyboard support.
2. memory capacity, and can it be upgraded. Kinda goes with #1.
3. throw in a third: 3rd party program support.
Ya know what's interesting?
Been doing so for years, too.
Damn! What a great idea!
The Multimedia
RE: The Multimedia
SD & CF slots? Come on, that's redundant. Sure there are plenty of CF peripherals out there but they all require drivers which will never be written for this thing. I'd like to see the CF slot jettisoned, an SDHC slot instead of regular SD (why does everyone but the camera companies refuse to move forward with SDHC?), and 2gb+ of internal flash. And, of course, a $399 or less pricetag without any of those silly mail-in rebates.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: The Multimedia
m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
RE: The Multimedia
RE: The Multimedia
IF it's a CF card that can be devoted entirely to storage then let the rejoicing begin! I just find it an interesting choice as the entire industry seems to be moving away from CF at the moment. Even some DSLRs are starting to adopt SDHC....I have no opposition to CF, it's just a VERY un-Palm-like move seeing as how they just kicked up between the legs by dropping fullsize SD/SDHC to go with miniSD on the last two Treos.
I really wish laptops still came with integrated CF slots. I find the usual SD/MS combo slots kind of limiting, actually.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
Either way, the pricing, size, and crippled functionality are all going to conspire to absolutely doom this thing. What Palm REALLY needs(ed) is a $400 or less, TX-sized full-fledged PDA with integrated EVDO wireless data and a chunk of internal flash storage. This thing is simply too little, too late. There's no way I'd leave a $500 , 15" widescreen, dual core laptop running Vista at home and carry this $500-$600 thing in conjunction with a $600 Treo.
No, Palm & Hawkins have totally lost it this time. Lightning is not going to strike thrice for Hawkins. Instead of this tomfoolery Palm should continue to refine their pocket-sized PDA line and add high-speed integrated wireless and gigs of flash-based storage.
What a misfire. Palm was once owned by 3Com. 3Com had the Audrey. Now Palm has their own version of the Audrey in the making.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
Jah
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
- it can function as the monitor and keyboard of a zero-footprint (tiny) PC regardless what OS that tiny PC runs, best if that that tiny box is the size of a regular Palm (or even smaller)
- it can function a portable TV screen
- it has a sensitive microphone and speaker to be used for a phone via wifi (using Skype or alike)
- it runs WMA and/or RealPlayer as a portable streaming radio/video player
- it is ruggedized (less breakable), solar powered, not temperature sensitive, or alike (to be mounted and/or left in the hot, humid, freezing car for a long time)
Otherwise, without at least three of the above in any combinations, I am afraid this will end up as 3Com Ergo Audrey, or Microsoft BOB, Apple Newton, etc...
RE: Initial impression? A disaster in the making!
See that's the thing. If it was just that, this would be a great product. There are a lot of people out there carrying Palms/Treo's who are also carrying laptops for "real work" back at the hotel in the evenings, that would love a "Palm keyboard on steroids" to make catching up with email/docs editing/web surfing easier. But for $500? Why, when you can get a dual-core Dell for around a grand?
The problem is that a $200 Palm keyboard on steroids isn't a company saving product. So they give it WiFi, throw around some buzzwords, try and get the Linux crowd fired up about it, and here we are.
If this thing was just a nice simple large keyboard/screen interface to a Treo for $200 they'd sell a million of them.
It's a Win HPC device!!
The hardware was very long in the tooth, but obviously the new Foleo will be up to date from hardware side.
RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
Hell, they didn't even get the HPC form factor right. Vadem's Clio was far more innovative and elegantly designed.
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/apple_emate_300_blast_from_the_past_review
The eMate enjoyed nice mid-90s Apple industrial design, good build quality and a largeish LCD for the time. But it was just too underpowered for a laptop, too large for a PDA and never truly supported by Apple. I remember hoping that they'd keep tweaking the line and make it a real multimedia powerhouse. Then Newton's law brought us a world full of $1000 laptops and no one cared anymore.
Then the eMate-derived iBook came out a few years later and took the market by storm and Apple hasn't looked back since. The primary difference here is that Apple was a PC manufacturer who dipped a toe into the PDA market and failed. Palm is a PDA company trying to climb uphill to dip a toe into the subnotebook market while leaping headfirst into the smartphone pool but still trying to adhere to the PDA playbook of 1996 (Zen etc).
So.....back to the 700p ROM update watch I go!
P.S.
Speaking of the 700p...I ended up grudgingly going with a 700p because of my affection towards the Palm OS and the huge investment in apps I've made over the years. I went with a Treo because Palm hobbled their final PDAs so much and refused to let users of their PDAs do BT DUN with most all conventional featurephone/dumbphones on the market. So I HAD to go with a Treo in order to get Palm OS + wireless anywhere even though I didn't want a Treo *PER SE*.
Now Palm comes out with something that's not the EVDO-enabled TX2 I was hoping for but an unwieldy, overpriced monstrosity I'd never consider carrying around with me. Why are Palm and Hawkins SO dead-set on ignoring the classic Palm Plot/Palm V formfactor. It's just big enough without being TOO big!
P.P.S. I'd be more likely to spend $600 on a EVDO'd TX2 that was rock solid stable than the Foleo. It's not just a pricing issue, it's size/lack of multimedia/lack of document functionality etc etc etc etc. My only remaining hope is that there's a TX or Zodiac-sized (at largest) Mobile Companion in the works for an October release.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: It's a Win HPC device!!
Laptop wannabe
Anyone else hear that loud splash? It's the sound of this product sinking to the bottom.
I retract what I said before, this product won't even establish a niche market. You can buy a really nice Acer laptop for $449 that isn't much bulkier than this.
Oh the pain...the pain.
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Laptop wannabe
For $399.99 + tax (out the door, no rebates) BestBuy are currently selling THREE different laptops ( Compaq & Acer Celeron M's and an Everex VIA C7-M). All have 512mb of RAM, 60 or 80gb HDs, Vista Home Basic, and a CD or DVD burner. They are not instant-on nor are they ultra-portable but I'd take one of the above $400 laptops plus an $80 Z22 and a $100 dumbphone for REAL productivity anyday.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Laptop wannabe
Another astonishing disappointment is its rather homely design. I wouldn't go so far as to call it ugly, but this certainly isn't something I would be proud to pull out of my backpack at a meeting. All plastic, unattractive grey plastic. It looks more like really cheap looking PC notebook than the elegant portable Palm claims it to be.
Palm really has lost it's edge. They have no clue what mobile computing is all about anymore. It now must resort to throwing spaghetti at a wall to see what sticks.
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Laptop wannabe
Aw, nuts.
I could do plenty with a Samsung Q1 Classic and it's 7" screen.
It's the SOFTWARE, stupid.
Which the Flopeo is lacking. And will continue to lack.
Just like Nokia's Anti-Internet Tablets.
RE: Laptop wannabe
-------------------------------
http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Laptop wannabe
That's not to say the Flopeo is any good. Right off the bat I can see it's not.
Yeah, Palm now Daughter of Audrey!
RE: Laptop wannabe
And here we were all hoping for a cool new handheld that could Palm exciting again. What a letdown!!
RE: Laptop wannabe
> that could Palm exciting again...
Not me!
I was looking for some show-stopping SOFTWARE running on remote servers ala the iPhone's Visual Vociemail et al that would allow DUHmb Linux-based phones to be served both applications and massaged-data on-the-fly!
I really really did think that Bill Coleman was brought onto the BoD for a reason!
> ...What a letdown!!
Yup.
This is the end...of Palm
RE: This is the end...of Palm
In the larger scheme of things, I guess it is a sign of things to come for Palm as a company. I see it going the Ford/GM way.
Will be honestly sorry to see Palm hammered - we all come to this forum because we love /loved Palm's platform.
But times have changed. And Palm is just not there. Period.
RIP.
What a disppointment!
excellent product by Palm
Wow - Hawkins appparently ALREADY said to Mossberg...
== on the web? [They blame the flash ware, but its obviously the procesor]
==
== JH Let me be clear -- it will do it, but not well.
==
== WM When?
==
== JH UHHH...In the future.
==
== JH If I could do it again, I'd put a faster processor in here.
Gack!
Does this require a DUN-enabled Treo?
But many Treo users are not so lucky, and have Treos where DUN has been disabled by the carrier. How is the Foleo going to work with these devices? Is this why it has to "sync" with the Treo -- because it cannot get to the internet directly?
more questions
1. Storage? What type? What size?
2. What app's come with it?
3. Can it print from apps, or are we stuck with having to shop around for a variety of print providers for each application? (Deal breaker for me.)
4. Will it support my Razr cell phone? It has Blue Tooth so I would expect it to work.
5. What hardware connections exist?
6. Are the batteries replaceable?
7. Is it compatible with my Palm E2? Other Palms?- can I synch my E2 with it? Via BT or WiFi?
8. That's a LOT of money to ask for what doesn't seem like leading edge technology. Compare to a Dell Inspirion laptop for only $50 more (www.dell.com)
9. I do like the form-factor. PDA's are often a bit small in the screen for things like photos, spreadsheets, etc. and this isnt' too big for a large coat pocket, or at worst won't take up much space in a laptop (or smaller) bag. Women can carry it in the average purse I would guess - is there such a thing?
RE: more questions
Sure, Palm may cozy up with one or two manufacturers (Apple & RIM spring to mind) to make a small handful of certain handsets Foleo-friendly but I would not consider the Foleo a device that can be used universally on ANY cell phone with a Bluetooth DUN profile. Also, Palm hasn't updated their sad PhoneLink update software since June of 2005. They're not about to start doing it again anytime soon.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
Agreed, need to see specs.
Also, is this thing able to be used as a standalone device, or do you have to have a Treo? I have no intention of buying a Treo, but it might be a nice standalone writing device.
What's really missing right now is the mission statement. Something like "You use it to blog."
If all it's good for is email and Docs to Go, color me unimpressed.
"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Found some specs!
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2138728,00.asp
Hawkins calls this new category of handhelds "Mobile Companions," and his new device is called Foleo. It sports a full-size keyboard, a 10.2-inch bright color screen, and has an SD card slot, VGA out, USB, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi. The base unit itself comes with only 256MB of built-in RAM, but it has a CompactFlash slot under the battery so you can expand memory there or via the SD card slot.
Memory is disappointing, but the price is right, and it should do a good job displaying PDFs. And the memory can be fixed by adding a big CF card.
As a cheap Linux laptop, this might be interesting. It would be competing against the Intel Classmate PC, and the OLPC, though the latter is unlikely to be commercially available any time soon.
"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
Screen Resolution
It weighs about 2.4 pounds but feels much lighter, and even with its small battery it can deliver five full hours (even while using Wi-Fi the entire time). The large screen supports 1024-by-600 or 1024-by-768 VGA resolution. Navigation is done through a TrackPoint nub in the keyboard and it has a roller wheel below the keyboard to provide fast and easy scrolling.
"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
RE: more questions
So with 8gb or 16gb in the CF slot and 4gb in th SD slot it still might turn out alright. But then again, 2 or 4 gb internally would still have been the best solution to complement dual expansion slots.
I don't see what runs up the cost on this thing. All of the tech used here is stuff seen on previous Palms (other than the 10" LCD of course) and there's nothing like WiMax, SSD or OLED to run up the pricetag. Could it just be Palm being greedy again and hoping for a specialy low-volume, high margin niche device like the T|C was?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: more questions
Ooh. Gotta go put mine up on ebay! The Microdrive, that is. My LifeDrive is now LifeFlash.
Guess what? No new OS for you!!
It's for the Flopeo -- uh, Foleo only.
Wait.
Worry.
Who cares?
finally
m125-zire 71-zire 72
"Never pay full price for late pizza" Michelangelo
Product looks fantastic!
All I need while travelling about is MS office, internet functionality and some multimedia capabilities. This device might do it all for me.
Windows XP is too slow to start up when all you want to do is quickly add a few notes or look up some items. Time is quite precious.
I'm intrigued by the linux aspect, as it opens up enormous possibilities. As I use UNIX almost everyday, for an IT technician machine this could be perfect for remote access.
It's also easy to see that any number of a large amount of existing applications may be ported quite easily to this platform. That was always a failing of the Windows CE platform.
However, it worries me that there is no mention of memory or solid state hard drives yet. It needs a reasonable amount to make the product a winner.
Slim, gorgeous, sexy, linux. I think Microsoft are in for a shock.
RE: Product looks fantastic!
WOW!
Who fell off their rocker and made this suggestion? What a waste of time.
Yet another tangent on the Palm road map which will inevitably result in a dead end.
RIP Palm 2007
Who Cares..
Touch Screen???
Already got something like this...
800x480 screen, very sharp, easy to read. If I need to look at a web page that doesn't render properly on my Treo, I just whip out the N800, which has a full version of Opera on it. It also does email and I can also remotely manage my servers and other computers (VNC/remote desktop and good old SSH remote login). I can also do email and news/RSS on the thing, either using webmail or its built in POP and IMAP mail client. The only thing it is lacking is a keyboard, and the capability to edit Office documents. I don't really need to edit Office documents remotely, so that's not really important to me. And as soon as my next paycheck comes, I'll be buying a Bluetooth keyboard, which the N800 plays happily with. (besides, the N800 has a soft-keyboard that is perfectly adequate for typing in short emails, URLs, and the like.)
Plus it's a *real* Linux based computer, so it can use the thousands of open source applications that are out there... everything from basic text editing, email, web, news/RSS, etc., all the way to really weird esoteric stuff like biological protein molecule modeling and other sci/eng apps. And yes, there are lots of games for it too.
It's also smaller than the Foleo, and easily fits in my inside coat pocket.
So it may not be as elegant as the Foleo, but it was cheaper (about $400 for the N800 vs $599 and a $100 rebate for the Foleo).
Donald Burr of Borg
Treo 755p on Sprint (EVDO/Power vision) and lovin' it!
RE: Already got something like this...
But it will probably suck on the Flopeo too.
Between the two, my god! someone give me a sedative!, I'd choose the N800 over the Flopeo.
God, just kill me NOW for typing that admission!
RE: Already got something like this...
I ran into the exact same thing on my desktop Linux box at work, which defaults to using the open source Flash plugin. I had to install the Adobe official plugin to get it to work right (which is only available as an Intel x86 binary, so it own't work on the N800 which is an ARM based unit.)
Donald Burr of Borg
Treo 755p on Sprint (EVDO/Power vision) and lovin' it!
RE: Already got something like this...
Why???
I firmly believe the "revolutionary" comments start getting tossed out to the public once the designers and managers come to the realization "Oh sh*t. We answered a question no one was asking." Seriously, how can you spend years working on this pile of crap and actually admit you put that kind of time in to it?
For about $150 - $200 I can maybe see a use for it but when you can get a nice laptop for the same price, you would have to be retarded to buy one of these. Aren't iPhones going to start at $499?
Remember the LifeDrive
Great vision
Jah
RE: Great vision
Jah
RE: Great vision
On a PC notebook in this class, for the same price, I get a machine that has ZERO software limitations. I can user virtually any desktop class application (short of PC gaming) with no restrictions. FOLEO offers none of that, not even a full web experience. This product is going to flop so badly that the light from flop will take 10,000 years to reach its surface.
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Great vision
Why doesn't it even come with the FOUR BASIC PALM PIMs on it?!
DataViz jumped on it as a way to try to get some $$$ from the MSWord, et al, market.
Having had D2G lose the formatting on nearly everydamnthing I ever put in it, I will NEVER trust or use that software again. That the Flopeo has it is no selling point to me.
RE: Great vision
Jah
RE: Great vision
Jah
RE: Great vision
If yer dreams, mate!
People said the same fekkin thing about the Linux-based Nokia Anti-Internet Tablets.
Yeah, some wealth of software that inspired!
RE: Great vision
However, it's simplicity which drives mass market takeup of a product - the original Palm being a case in point. The majority still only buy a Palm for the basic applications, which satisfies their needs. However, we all know the Palm is a powerful platform with a vast number of programs, in it's own right.
We are possibly back to a product, maybe in many ways like the original Palm Pilot. Maybe, so easy that my grandmother (or people like her) could use it. That's a huge market!!
However, anyone who thinks a Linux operating system based product is an underpowered product, is a fool.
Whether Palm can get enough critical mass from developers to port existing Linux applications or create new ones for 'power' users is anyone's guess. It depends entirely on the numbers who buy the product (all users). Developers and software companies have to make a profit.
I'm sold on it. I've always wanted something quick and light, almost like a PDA for when i'm travelling. I mostly only need full office functionality (Word, Email, Excel etc.) and internet access. I know many people think like that too, since I'm nearly always sorting out their problems.
The iPod, the original Blackberry, ... all basic functionality, but market winners.
I know that one of the first things I will do is to seek a program for command line access to the operating system, to get full power of the machine. A portable Linux laptop for development. Yes, this thing is great for Pros and IT technical staff and consultants alike.
I don't know what it takes to make a winning product, people are quite fickle. But all the winners so far, have 'appeared' to be quite simple in design and in function, at the start of their product life.
"You have to rage against the dying of the light".
RE: Great vision
Then why the hell didn't she rush to buy this when it came out?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_eVilla
Or is it only now that she's getting senile?
The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/CDE/_LAPTOP.GIF
http://sharkysoft.com/archive/20020000-as3000/as3000-large.jpg
I think the only way they will get rid of their *immediate* overstocked inventory of Flopeos is to give it away with the purchase of an unlocked Treo from the Palm Store direct.
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/04/ClioImage12.JPG
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
HP Omnibook 300, 1993
http://tinyurl.com/332m3y
Hands-On with the Foleo from Engadgbet
So it DOES have a cursor and a trackpoint-style nub! And what looks like a 3.5mm headphone jack!
http://www.engadget.com/photos/palm-foleo-hands-on/
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Palm FOLEOFat
Obsolete
Lacking
Expensive
OrdinaryFOLEO
If you buy one of these its like carrying a big I'm an idiot sign
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Jah
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Sure, go ahead and buy one.
But the minute you come here months later wailing about THE LACK OF SOFTWARE FOR IT, you must post your address so we can come over and shoot your kneecaps off.
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
Jah
RE: The Road To Flopeo: Two Prior Designs Revealed!
One Possible Application
My point is that after constantly trying to cram all possible functionality into one device, many people still carry multiple devices and Palm if it is smart enough can take advantage of that fact by turning the Foleo into a hub for all of the gadgets that we carry. Even if they stick to only letting you use it with Palm devices (which would be a mistake IMHO), it gives Palm a lot more flexibility to make devices they might not have made before. They could for example, do a truly thin Treo with no keyboard and sell it together with the Foleo in the same box as a part of an agreement with a mobile carrier. They could shrink a PDA to credit card size (remember the Rex?) and let it recharge and edit its documents by sticking it into a slot on the Foleo.
I don't think that the Foleo will be a screaming success but if Palm is patient and let it evolve and become more powerful, it will become a successful device.
RE: One Possible Application
http://www.access-company.com/news/press/PalmSource/2002/061702.html
That was Flopeo 0.5
RE: One Possible Application
RE: One Possible Application
And please dear God let not such a retard sit next to me in a public place!
Maybe it'll be good for something...
RE: Maybe it'll be good for something...
RE: Maybe it'll be good for something...
Yeah, yeah, don't give me this It Has Slots argument. Palm will screw up the filesystem again. Just watch...
Besides, this is supposed to be a SIMPLE device.
I might be interested
Mike
Are niche markets viable?
I have several friends who are in sales or public relations. They spend more time out of their offices than in them. They've got Treos and depend on them, but complain about trying to manage their email on the little screen with the thumbboard.
They don't want to carry and maintain another computer (i.e, a laptop in addition to their existing Treo and desktop). So they muddle through. The Foleo might give them better/easier access to the data they love to keep on their Treos without creating yet-another-place for data to be stored and synced.
Unfortunately, it's a niche market. Success will ultimately ride on how well the software connects with "on-Treo" data and information. That, and how well Palm sells the idea to the business traveler.
Of course, given recent performance and development... it's doomed.
--
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> ???
RE: Are niche markets viable?
If a stripped-down MS Vista laptop with instant-on, suddenly arrives on the market then there will be some problems. MS Clout could spoil the party.
As an IT person, the major gripe of most people/users is that a pc does more than they need, is too complicated, and too slow to boot up. The last factor is the single most irritating feature of all.
The more programs that get added, the slower the start-up time, the more problems they encounter. They have a real nightmare with security (anti-virus, firewalls, anti-spyware) programs.
MS Office functions (Word,Excel,Email), media players (photos, music, video), and internet access (via a browser) is all they care about.
For almost anyone too, who is doing mobile working, at internet cafes, coffee shops etc. These above set of programs are the only ones that are really used.
At home, a desktop/laptop with a large number of varied/specialist programs is fine.
RE: Are niche markets viable?
> arrives on the market then there will be some problems...
These don't already exist?
RE: Are niche markets viable?
Hahahahah... Well for one thing, I was *surprised*!
Let's ditch the lappy, to use the phone, and now let's ditch the phone and use the foleo.. NO WAIT! Why don't I just use the laptop I already have???
BRILLIANT...
Seriously now.. A companion device for a companion device for the computer.... I know they're really pushing to standardize the smartphone as the main source of data, but seriously. Who *really* relies 100% on their smartphone for everything? My guess is a tiny tiny *tiny* niche market. Way to go vertical palm...
I really thought this was an april fool's joke... Wow..
[/rant]
Do they actually USE their products anymore?
I own a Treo680. I love it, but it took some tweaking to get it right, and I still have the occassionaly "battery offset" issue where it'll fully-charge to only 26% at times. It makes me wonder how much they actually USED their own stuff before putting it out on the market. I also owned some of the early Psion UMPC models. I love the OS, but the form-factor was miserable.
So....we have the Foleo now! A few Pros and Cons, shall we? Then add your own.
Pros:
1. Open-Source Linux platform increases the chances of having a lot of favorite software get ported over (depending on how compliant the X-client is).
2. Instant on. Actually...this is VERY important if you use it as a PIM.
3. Reasonably light.
4. Cheap price for something that includes Office apps.
Cons:
1. Laptop form? Oh goodie...let's find a trash-can to set this onto so I can type something in. This also means I have to set it on my lap to check email. Talk about a kink in the neck!
2. Wait...what's that on the keyboard? A track-pointer?!?! AAAAAAAAUGH...there's a CURSOR on the screen!!! It uses a @#()*#^ mouse instead of touch-screen! What is this, the 90s?
3. ...you know what, never mind. I already don't want this. Seriously, it has nearly all of the inconvenience of a standard UMPC but without the compatibility.
====What it SHOULD have been====
It should've been the Nokia N800 done RIGHT.
A 5" to 7" TOUCH-screen pad for good ebook, web-browsing, and movie viewing.
Instant-on capability with both WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity. SDHC support so that we could eventually plug in 32GB of space.
Have it compatible with Palm's bluetooth keyboard.
Palm emulator to make use of all those Palm apps.
(Sigh again). Who's going to drop $400 for a neutered, awkward laptop when the Nokia N800 and Apple iPhone are available? I really hope I'm wrong about this device, but right I can't see why the "average joe" would pick this up, never mind us techies who know better. Average Joe wants touch-screen, movies, games, and that whole "it feels good in my hands" thing. This appears to be a niche market.
-------
James Sorenson
Huh?
Keep up the innovating Palm!
________________________________________
If you feel like you're under control, you're just not going fast enough.
Hello Audrey
Hello Audrey, nice to see you, it's been a long time
You're just as silly as you used to be
RE: Hello Audrey
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
End-run around blocked DUN
But the farther you go with this the more you run into the limitation of the smartphone battery. I guess if you're going to do that kind of heavy remote connectivity over an extended period that's where you need to have WiFi.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: End-run around blocked DUN
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: End-run around blocked DUN
RE: End-run around blocked DUN
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: What carriers allow use of this again?
Sprint lets you add a PAM plan (Phone As Modem) to your existing account for $15igh per month extra.
Verizon charges $40/month for unlimited DUN.
Both of them have special packages with drivers/connection manager software you can download off their sites and use to configure your laptop with a hardwired Treo/phone.
Now, I think you can just use (at least in Vista) the native Windows BT setup wizard to establish a wireless BT DUN configuration between the Treo and the laptop. At least check, neither CDMA carrier had begun supporting hardwired Vista setups yet.
You can always just take your chances and get PDAnet or USBmodem in conjunction with either a CDMA or GSM network and bring your own access and risk getting dinged by the carrier for it.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
Horrid
They wont sell me a workable PDA anymore, but expect me to buy a watered down laptop?
Hey Ed, apparently the smartphone guys can't make a PC either.
Astounding. This company has truly lost it.
Exactly what advantage does this thing have over a traditional laptop? Instant on??? I have to take the thing out of the laptop bag first and find a surface to place it on.
And on the same day as the "Microsoft Surface" announcement. This surely will be getting a lot of press.
RE: Horrid
After my divorce, my Palm is my best friend...Palm Pilot that is.......
Speechless
Nice boat anchor Palm! Now where is my TX2?
PDA's Past and Present:
Palm - IIIxe, Vx, M500, M505, Tungsten T, TX
Handspring - Edge, Platinum, Deluxe
Sony - SJ22
Apple - MP110, MP2000, MP2100
For the P.T. Barnum market
Price of a real PC laptop: $499
Proving that P.T.Barnum was right: Priceless.
For everything else, there's Palm.
Forgive my self indulgence, but hours after the unveiling my head is still spinning in disbelief.
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: For the P.T. Barnum market
You eejit. Always take one of those travel sickness meds to prepare for a Palm announcements.
Does wonders!
RE: For the P.T. Barnum market
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
The latest deathknells for Palm
Stick A Fork In Palm
http://techdirt.com/articles/20070530/111236.shtml
Why the Foleo Could Mean the End of Palm
http://blogs.business2.com/beta/2007/05/why_the_foleo_c.html
Palm officially out of ideas, debuts 1990s palmtop concept
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070530-palm-officially-out-of-ideas-debuts-1990s-palmtop-concept.html
Palm ignores history, forges ahead.
http://saunderslog.com/2007/05/30/palm-ignores-history-forges-ahead/
And this, my friends, is why is it DOA right NOW:
>>>Hawkins is saying he loves a Flash-based cartoon site but can't watch it on his Treo; he can on the Foleo, which supports Flash (but not all Flash--it can't do video).
RE: The latest deathknells for Palm
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: The latest deathknells for Palm
== "...WM Let me get this straight. It won't do the hottest
== thing on the Web? [They blame the flashware, but its
== obviously the processor]
==
== JH Let me be clear—:it will do it, but not well.
==
== WM When?
==
== JH UHHH...In the future.
==
== JH If I could do it again, I'd put a faster processor in here..."
Taken from Gizmodo's realtime blog during the D conference.
I love IT !!!
i really wonder about the specs though... how much flash memory? how many MHz? How good is the screen?
why oh why it's not a touch screen??
what about A2DP BT audio?
how good is the virtual machine?
RE: I love IT !!!
The Nokia Anti-Internet Tablet has been out at least 1.5 years. Go check on how much software there is for it.
Make sure you check for things like PIM and WP.
Oh, and don't go buy lists. See if people are USING them.
What I tried sucked.
RE: I love IT !!!
Sure you can get a windows laptop cheap as this with a cd burner/dvd and a hard drive, bigger screen, yadyad, but this baby is a new beginning for portable computers and I like it. Sure I'd like to see it at $399 after the rebate but it if comes with 8 gigs I'll go for it.
I have a desktop, 2 laptops (one for work Dell M90 and an aging 10" lifebook) and the lifebook is for surfing on the couch and I don't use the hard drive for cd/DVD anymore and the idea of an instant on internet device sounds really cool to me.
Now keep in mind I have the old Audrey and since I got the lifebook I didn't need the Audrey but it was a cool ideas for it's time and has since been hacked into a neat little gizmo, but the Foleo is coming at the right time.
I am disappointed to hear it doesn't have the calendar yet, but I suspect that will come soon, but still my treo works fine for that and I don't need the big screen for that function but I could see others wanting the address book and calendar on there for editing. Plus the onld Audrey could sync to palms address books and calendars and that was cool becuse you could have the wife calenar vica/versa.
I was looking for a replacement for my lifebook and this might be it. half the price of other laptops that had stuff I didn't use.
Yes there is a market for this, but will you carry it with your treo??? I doubt I will but great for around the house.
RE: I love IT !!!
Well I'm not suprised about the Nokia not having apps, but the Linux/Palm community will jump all over this.
And the Nokia thingie is tiny like a phone but not a phone - WHAT??
Palm has a winner with the Treo and if the iphone doesn't want to play with this device then it's another strike against apple in my book.
RE: I love IT !!!
but this baby is a new beginning for portable computers and I like it.
Uh...no it isn't, and that is largely the reason why people are attacking it. It's an old idea that tried and failed for good reason, and no one wants.
Just wait for Q4 to roll around and let the incredibly low sales volume speak for itself.
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http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: I love IT !!!
Really, please post a link to anther flash memory, instant-on Linux based laptop with Wifi and Buetooth and 5 hours of run time for $499, I must have missed ALL of them or something.
Look they said it loud and clear, this isn't a laptop replacment 'do all' machine. But there will be pleny of us out there that could use something like this.
Just get over the fact that the announcement wasn't an iphone killer.
RE: I love IT !!!
Exactly.
I challenge anyone to find a 2 pound laptop for $500 period.
There's nothing like the Folio in the market. The Nokia has a tiny screen and no keyboard, and ultra-small laptops are $2000+ and much clunkier.
What are these FUD-spreaders thinking?
I'm actually offended that they think they can influence me with such drivel. :)
------
"People who like M$ products tend to be insecure crowd-following newbies lacking in experience and imagination."
RE: I love IT !!!
You're right: I don't think it has ever been done before at this low of a price point(although, certainly, someone feel free to come by and correct me on this point). So yes, the argument could be made that the reason such an in-the-middle device has never taken off has been simply because of price. But I think that's a hard argument to carry. You can always tell the difference between a product that is hot but has a limited market due to its cost, and a product that just well ... isn't hot.
The other thing to keep in mind: yes, it's true that the foleo has that list of features you mention, which haven't really been gathered in a single device before. But that's a bit unfair to the past competition. You are failing to realize that, FOR THEIR TIME, most of these 'new niche' >handheld It's not the lack of specs persay: there is something undesirable about these devices in this category. Something that doesn't allow it to spark the market, whenever its introduced. Where is the Palm innovation to push itself beyond the prospects of all these ignominious predecesors? By tying it to a smartphone? Perhaps. I don't think so, but I'll wait and see (will be interesting). Also (I'm ranting/rambling here, I know) I think Palm painted itself in a corner by pushing/hyping the whole 'third category' thing. Hype can and will kill. If they had quietly introduced this as a smartphone companion, I think it would have met far less resistance. I have a feeling that egos got in the way, and forced a 'good product' into the shoes of a 'pathbreaking' product, when it didn't belong there. Hey, it is nice to here positive comments as well. And I will watch with interest to see if this does take off. But I don't think it will. And there is a reason that the comments are mostly negative, both here and on the net at large.
RE: I love IT !!!
You are failing to realize that, FOR THEIR TIME, most of these 'new niche' >handheld Sorry I wrote so much. Just pissed at Palm as usual :(
RE: I love IT !!!
If this doesn't work ... I give up :)
RE: I love IT !!!
Now this all depends on the Browser. They mention issues with some video sites and I'm guessing 'youtube' etc. but that will come in time. The biggest road block these devices (audrey, Nokia thingy, Sony location free TV) is that that browser can't handle all the plugins like IE can. So if they keep on top of that issue things will be fine. If it does flopio then we could be left behind in the browser updates. But since it's linux it should live on and this might be a chance for change from Microsoft/Apple domination???? I willing to try it just for that fact alone. Microsoft=virus and Apple=controlled closed system.
Anyway, do what you want, it's America and I for one applaude the opportunity for choice.
INSTANT ON!!!!!!! I'm kinda jazzed about that. I sure this is the first of many devices with that because of Flash memory pricing diving.
RE: I love IT !!!
I played with the nokia. It was too small, too slow, and too useless without a keyboard.
Where does that leave me: Several times a week I have to solve an urgent issue via email and I find myself asking, "if only I could get to an internet connected computer".
This Foleo would suit me just right. As Stephen Colbert would say, "NATION, notice the bullet points:"
* it's small enough to fit in my briefcase. I would have it always
* it's cheap enough that I wouldn't be afraid to take it out in public
* it wouldn't have my whole life on it so I wouldn't be afraid to leave it in the car
* email and internet represents 99% of my computing needs
* this device is EXACTLY what I need
---
David
Bottom line - Too Big!
Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
Dell Inspiron 1501
Mobile AMD Sempron™ 3500+ (1.8GHz/512KB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic
512MB DDR2 SDRAM 533MHZ, 1 DIMM
60GB Hard Drive
FREE Shipping and Handling.
Dell Photo All-In-One Printers Starting at $49!
No Interest for 3 Months!5
$549
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http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/services/inspn/1501_DNCWHA1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
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http://www.pocketfactory.com
http://www.elitistsnob.com
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
Intel® Pentium® dual-core proc T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB
Ubuntu Edition version 7.04
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife™(glossy)
512MB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 DIMM
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 95
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
Then if that's too rich for ya, Best Buy currently offers THREE name-brand laptops for $400. Two are Intel Celeron-M based and the other is an Everex C7. All have specs comparable to what Gekko just posted.
My point is that for between $400 and $550, the market is FLUSH with name-brand, widescreen Intl/AMD machines with optical drives running either XP, Vista or various distros of Linux. That combined with a dumbphone is far more versatile and far less expensive than a Treo + Foleo combination.
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
That DELL would tear my rotator cuff over time. "dude, you're not only gettin a DELL, you're gettin shoulder replacement surgery"
---
David
RE: Dell Inspiron 1501 Notebook - $549
I was initially very unhappy about the Foleo. But after thinking about it from a business standpoint and not a power user standpoint, I have decided to wait and get final specs and fondle the real deal before I pass final judgement.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill
Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
But after I got over the initial shock of realizing this wasn't what I expected, but could still be successful, my view started to change.
I think we're all in agreement that the initial release this morning had a massive built-up to a product launch of something that doesn't see all that monumental. So rather then getting stuck on this topic (which has clearly been beaten to death...) I asked myself two questions:
1. If Palm rushed the presentation of this new product, why?
2. Now that I'm over them screwing up the launch, what kind of potential does this new product enable in mobile computing, and is this just the first of many products focused on the "mobile power user" who needs more than the average smartphone offers?
3. Is there reason to believe that the actual launch will be substancially better then this curent *preview* of the product? What software offering used in conjunction with the bigger screen/keyboard would make it worth carting around a second device?
1. - I don't have a good answer for #1, which seems to be the focus of today's ranting... Sorry Palm, but I'm with everyone else on this one. Even if it had to wait another six months, I think it would be worth to have more applications or functionality to demo.
2. - Onto #2... I think this is the topic that could use more discussion. Rather then thinking of this as the "Flopeo" as some have cleverly coined it, I think Palm views the device as a stepping stone into a new paradigm. I currently use a Palm TX with an on-screen keyboard, tethered to a Samsung slim EVDO phone. It's a less common solution, but IMHO the Treo just doesn't cut it for really attacking email, large documents, and multimedia. The screen is too small, and the keyboard isn't that good. Using a device with a larger screen works really well, and I've even converted some of my friends who were WM smartphone users to a similar set up because they liked having the choice between a phone-only day, and a media-rich PDA day. I think if the device was a little smaller, and Palm really sold it as a "Rich Multimedia Device" instead of a Treo add-on, people would have an ENTIRELY different first impression, which leads into my third question...
3. - "There's HAS TO BE more to it Palm!" - When they actually release the product, will there be more too it? In my humble opinion, it they don't add additional functionality, this is going to be a flop(eee-ohh.. sorry, I couldn't resist). But if they can include a software suite that really takes advantage of the "rich multimedia device", then I think we'll have a winner. Coming from a seasoned phone-PDA-combo user, I have a pretty good list of things you need to make carrying a second device worth it:
- Productivity
* Ability to read/compose rich HTML email - You can already read clear-text
email on your Treo, so to make carrying the Foleo really pay off, it needs to
be able to display/create HTML email with bullets, numbered lists, and tables.
(Foleo *might* have the covered... TBA)
* Open/Edit all MS Office Docs - For a lot of business users (especially people
in sales and marketing) this is a big one. Viewing docs on most smartphones is
painful, and unproductive. Having the bigger screen would really pay off.
(again, Foleo *might* have this covered, but editing is must... TBA)
* Desktop-like Web Browsing - Some web pages are fine on you phone, some totally
suck. If you have important work to do that requires constant use of a web
page or web app, chances are you'd probably carry around the Foleo as long as
it supports proper desktop-like rendering. This is a MUST. Otherwise it's just
not worth carrying around another device.
(again, Foleo *might* have this covered... TBA)
- Multimedia
* A really good mobile audio solution - Let's be honest... the iPod isn't really
that great, it's just simple, and consistent! "simple and consistent" have
been the basis for Palm products since day-one, and I really think mobile
audio consumers are screaming for something that applies these principles with
a little more advanced functionality then the iPod. If the Foleo had out-of-
the-box support for WMA-based music services (i.e. Rhapsody & PTunes), good
syncing with the PC, and possibly even more advanced access like the new
Rhapsody client on Nokia's internet tablet. The "wow factor" would be huge,
and this might be the leaning factor for travelers who want more control of
their audio while working remotely (we all know that the PalmOS has some
diminishing returns when it comes to multi-tasking).
(I don't think they consitered this option...)
* A LEGAL and EASY TO USE movie solution - Can Palm please partner with someone
to create a one-click solution for LEGALLY putting your DVD's onto your mobile
device. We all know the technology is there... You could have a one-click
solution that only encoded the video to play on your device. Heck, if they did
a good job marketing this functionality, people may buy a Foleo just for that
functionality!
(definitely don't think this was considered, but the market is begging for it)
- Phone Integration
* Ability to command the Phone application when using the Foleo - Any time you
have the Foleo open and working, you should be able to control all the phone
functions from the Foleo (accept call, deny call, deny w/ SMS). They need to
assume that most users are going to leave the Treo in their pocket, so 99% of
the phone's functionality needs to be replicated on the Foleo to make it worth
the extra $$$. If you accept a call and don't have the bluetooth ear-bud
enabled, then it pipes the audio to the external speaker and mic according on
the Foleo. If you have the bluetooth ear-bud enabled, you can click "answer"
on the Foleo, and it will answer the call.
(Foleo may have some of this, but I doubt all of it)
* SMS/IM conversations replicated - If you have existing SMS or IM conversations
on your Treo, these should be replicated on the Foleo so you have an instant
transition between devices. It may seem like a little think, but all these
little additions add up to making the device worth carrying around.
(Foleo may have some of this, but I doubt all of it)
With all that said, I think you can sum up my post by saying, "You need neat, powerful, *wiz-bang* software to back up your big screen and keyboard if you plan on impressing this fickle mobile device market".
The potential is there, now Palm just needs some finishing game, and the humility to slightly revise the product in response to customer feedback.
Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)
RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
Tungsten T --> Palm TX --> Foleo?? (If it turns out to be a good multimedia platform??)
RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
"What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money." - David Aames, Vanilla Sky
RE: Released Too Early, or Just Short Sightedness??
As for the Flopeo, Hawkins already admitted it can't do YouTube and the like, period.
So I really wouldn't expect it to play ripped DVDs.
The device as introduced is boneheaded in the extreme. And I don't expect it to improve at all in the on-sale version. (Even if it winds up running the 4 core PIMs -- is there a built-in speaker for alarms?)
Other more capable devices have failed. Other more capable devices are currently for sale (Pepper Pad 3: http://www.hanbitamerica.com/ ).
That Palm has apparently devoted a TON of resources to this while neglecting its core business of PDAs and then smartphones (I don't need to b*tch about the Treo; I don't own one, and based on what owners have said, never will!), is just astounding. If I was a shareholder, I'd be up in arms.
They've bet the farm. And they will now lose it.
Oh Dear God
The horror...
*curls into fetal position*
*rocks*
*whimpers*
IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650
WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
-- http://www.engadget.com/gallery/palm-foleo-hands-on/258105/
RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
RE: WAITAMINUTE! 'Lamp contains mercury'!?
BTW, did you know the Compact Fluorescent Bulbs being promoted contain mercury at levels that require *special hazardous waste crews* to clean up if the bulb is broken?
http://tinyurl.com/23oxpc
wow
almost....
reformed lurker
RE: almost....
Underwhelmed
1. Sounds like the Foleo syncs with the Treo and only syncs select PIM info such as calendar and email. I think the Foleo needs to sync with the computer or home server - not just the Treo. Otherwise, you'd need to sync things twice (once to the Treo then to the computer/server). What happens when you need to replace your PDA or Foleo and the whole "user name" issue with syncing?
2. Contact support and Outlook support were not mentioned. So far, it's only compatible with "Outlook Mobile and Versamail". Compatibility with Wndows (XP and Vista) and their PIM products would be important.
3. Document versions/syncing. I don't know if they mentioned the document software (I'd guess it's Docs2Go). Editing, tracking, and maintaining documents through a 3rd party vendors (such as Docs2Go) is a minor headache for me already. Throw in a 3rd device (the Foleo) and it only gets worse. One option may be something like OpenOffice on the Foleo, but I don't recall the amount of on-board memory for handling additional apps. I recall they said the on-board flash memory is expandable and accessible. So running fuller document suites may be possible.
4. The WiFi seems to be limited to 802.11b (according to the Foleo site), so I have reservations about that.
5. Additional costs from your carrier. Footnotes on page 1 of the Foleo page:
1 Requires compatible phone with Bluetooth® wireless technology. Email requires data services on the phone from a mobile service provider at an additional cost. ISP and/or VPN may also be required. Within wireless service coverage area only.2 A dial up networking plan from your service provider may be required at an incremental cost above and beyond the service provider's regular smartphone data plans.
6. Security. While the device can be password protected, I can see security issues with it being easily stolen (small, no locks, easy to pick up and run). It may come with a Kensington lock, it wasn't mentioned though.
7. Memory. It wasn't mentioned (other than that the Foleo uses flash memory on board) and it's a concern. Can I multitask? Read email and edit a document without a noticeable drop in response time? Read email and use Skype with a WiFi connection with good quality?
8. Usability. Most of the folks I know with Treos do get push mail. Generally, though they're not using the device as an email client. They get an email that needs a response and they use the Treo to call. Often this is while walking down the hall/street. Folks just aren't going to carry around something like this for email-only. You need a table or surface to set it on. It doesnt' appear it can be operated using only one hand, like the Treos can. The Treo is seen as a way to extend being in contact - not as a replacement for the computer/office.
9. It's one more device. I'm hoping for device convergence, not device divergence.
There is room for improvement and, as mentioned in the webcast, there hopefully will be lots of people developing for it. So the concerns may be moot in the future.
But, "Negative Ned, isn't there anything likeable about the Foleo?" you might ask. Well, yes:
1. Portable.
2. Linux kernel and Palm OS. Could be a great combination.
3. Bigger screen and a full-size keypad.
Yikes. I think that's it!
Brent
'only $499*' *- after $100 mail in rebate
... um i think the answer is clear. [steve j wins]
... or another way to look at this is...
$199 Treo after carrier subsidy + $499 Foleo ...
or $549 for a dell notebook w/ XP...
or $599 for a dell notebook w/ ubuntu (oooh easy to develop Linux!!! ;-) )...
.. i don't see the treo/foleo combo winning out.
-painted dog
Laptop meets dumb terminal - only dumber
Also, it's not a full blown laptop computer, it's actually more like a dumb terminal or something like that. A WebTV or some other poor attempt at getting computer-like function without going to full-blown X86.
So it's basically a bit smaller than some laptops, although some laptops are also smaller than this. But it's kinda cheap compared to most laptops this size.. Well, unless you include the price of the phone...since apparently it doesn't have any internal high speed wireless, other than wifi...
So what we have is effectively a slim-ish laptop except it doesn't actually run full blown PC software... and also, it's kinda cheap... sorta
Wow... this is.... useless...
I was sincerely hoping for something cool like a treo-ish thing with added several gigabytes of internal memory and useful stuff like Wifi and USB host and GPS or something like that. They made it sound like it would be something great.
This is sad...
I already have an HP TC1100...
Oh dear !
Looks like the end of Palm to me. How can they spend years developing something that should have been released in 1996 ?
RE: Oh dear !
RE: Oh dear !
I have a feeling that within a year's time Hawkins standing up there holding the Foleo while wearing his purple Banana Republic dress shirt is going to rank right behind Yankowski whispering the secret of his gold-threaded suit on the IPO day...
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
WHERE IS THE UPDATE!?!
look here in this hand "pretty huh" shinnnnyyyyyyyy...
where is the rom update for the 700p?
Jay: look at this pretty machiiiiiiiiine.. "shiiiinnnyyyy"
Useless piece of junk! where is my update for the 700p!?!?
Look at this shinnny 755p... ooooooooooh aaaaaaaaaaaah
JAY!!! I WANT THE UPDATE TO MY SHINY PIECE OF CRAP YOU SOLD ME LAST YEAR!!
Should have been PC companion, not mobile companion
Perhaps IT departments would like cheap light laptops that simply accessed data already on your office computer. Home users could have had a powerful home computer connected to internet (that did all the processing work) then take the foleo with them to access and use the PCs programs.
There it wouldn't take 5 years to develop this.
Hello? Is any one out there?
What are this people thinking? Why would I spend and extra $500 on this device. Why?
DUD, definately a DUD. Palm will bought out my a cell phone company in less than 18 months, mark my word.
_____________________________________________
IBM WorkPad 30 (a.k.a. IIIX) > m130 > m515 > T|T > T|T3 > T|X
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
Which flavor of Linux is this running?
What's the core of it?
How open is the open source of it?
Hey, is there any BeOS lurking in there?
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
I haven't programmed much in Linux (other than a little bit of messing around with Glade) but I think there's enough of a Palm development community that uses Linux that it's got a decent shot.
For example, I see something like pilot-xfer and KPilot or JPilot being pretty successful with this. If you could get those things ported, then you'd have the ability to not only sync your e-mail, but also your calendar and other PIM functions and app installs individually, rather than having to slog through an entire HotSync.
Hopefully those in the Linux Palm development community are already thinking about these kinds of things. I think there's potential here.
RE: So...anyone ask for the source code yet?
You only have to offer the source code when you deliver the product
...and only then to people you distribute (i.e. sell) the product to.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
Palm's future.
- iPhone is about to invade the Treo market.
- Colligan has destroyed the handheld base.
- Retailers are removing Palm products from their shelves.
- I don't think anyone wants the Foleo.
I was expecting the Foleo to be a super modern/compact handheld with cell voice, but it is anything but.
Can someone enlighten me?
RE: Palm's future.
http://www.expansys.ca/zoompic.aspx?type=item&i=148761
That is a mobile computing device to be taken seriously.
That is along the lines of what I was expecting from the Foleo announcement.
I guess I can just go ahead and buy it right now and switch for good to WM since it does not appear that Palm understands.
RE: Palm's future.
IIIc -> M105 -> Zire 21 -> Tungsten T2 -> Treo 650
RE: Palm's future.
RE: Palm's future.
- iPhone is about to invade the Treo market.
PC Guys can't make a phone
- Colligan has destroyed the handheld base.
The handheld market is dead. No one anywhere wants one, not even you. Just ask the market analysts.
- Retailers are removing Palm products from their shelves.
Everyone knows most smartphone buyers travel to airports to make purchases anyways. Plus there's the prestigious Palm Closet^H^H^H^H^HStore near 30 Rock
- I don't think anyone wants the Foleo.
It is the most exciting and lucrative new product ever. Just ask Jeff Hawkins or Michael Mace.
I was expecting the Foleo to be a super modern/compact handheld with cell voice, but it is anything but.
People don't want a handheld. They want a $500 laptop screen for their smartphone.
Can someone enlighten me?
You're welcome.
iPhone killer released - the new HTC Touch
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=149713
http://www.mobileburn.com/pressrelease.jsp?Id=3425
The HTC Touch
It uses the same concept of a finger gesture interface but using Windows Mobile and with the usual: wi-fi, bluetooth, 2 megapixel camera etc.
It'll be on sale in the UK a day before the iPhone's official US release so I guess it's going to wipe the smug smiles off those Apple people.
What hope for the Treos crushed between these two devices?
RE: iPhone killer released - the new HTC Touch
Still looks like Wince.
My thoughts on the folio
Does Palm have three years waiting for this to develop?
It doesn't even have decent video capabilities?!?!?!?
I compare this development to that of the iphone - Apple produced a slick, well thought out device - that shows that care and thought were put into the two years it was being developed.
In two years, Palm pulls this rabbit out of their corporate ass?
A stripped down, dumbed down, laptop? To me, it's like the Audrey with the touchscreen removed and a keyboard added on.
Two years to produce a half-baked laptop? I christen it the craptop - a crappy laptop.
So why DID Ken Wirt leave?
The first contemporaneously notes the original stance of Wirt, Colligan, and, in particular, Hawkins on what "converged" can mean:
== "...IMHO, Wirt - Handheld SVP - is in almost direct conflict with
== Colligan/Hawkins et al since he overtly said SEPARATE devices was
== the way to go and, of course, the others overtly said CONVERGED
== devices are the way to go - the nearterm future should be politically
== interesting..."
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=272891&postcount=3
And the second and third, followed by the more generic fourth for the whole picture, notes the change in definition of "converged":
== "Nope - I'm talking about a phone-sized phone and a PDA-sized PDA..."
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=219683&postcount=4
== "...Anyway - it looks to THIS reader like PalmOne is for SURE heading
== to what I mentioned with their redefinition of "converged device" to
== allow multiple communicating devices (!!!). As such, perhaps that
== "device" mentioned up there will be Coming Soon! (albeit maybe not so
== converged that it's piggybacked...)"
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=338530&postcount=9
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=33796
Hey! I wonder if Ken Wirt was the REAL Idea Man behind PALM's products!
Timely SPAM from DELL
-- http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=19&kc=111&oc=DNDEHA1&x=3&y=12
Is this a no-brainer?
RE: Timely SPAM from DELL
That being said, perhaps I would/could use a Foleo if it could run VPN.
MS unit not palm unit unless...
Microsoft owns the world.
Crimson Foleo
you say you want innovation? just wait until the Crimson Foleo gets here this Christmas! now THAT'S innovation!!!
Palm not the first to use the term 'Mobile Companion'
http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/pda/emc218/index.htm
The MC stands for Mobile Companion. It was better than the Foleo too as it had a touchscreen. It wasn't even the first one commissioned by Ericsson; they had earlier Mobile Companions based on Windows CE.
We know what happened to Ericsson's Mobile Companions, it doesn't bode well for Palm.
RE: Palm not the first to use the term 'Mobile Companion'
Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
- has a smaller (10") screen than most laptops (usually 15")
- has no hard disk
- has no optical drive
which are the parts that suck the most juice in a laptop, it seems pathetic that the Foleo can only achieve a battery life of 5 hours.
I had a 12" iBook about 4 years back that could get three and half to four hours worth of use with access to the hard drive and optical drive. Needless to say, battery life declines with time.
This prompts another question about the Foleo, does it have a user replaceable battery?
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
- has a smaller (10") screen than most laptops (usually 15")
It's the resolution that matters.
- has no hard disk
OMG! And no floppy drive!
- has no optical drive
which are the parts that suck the most juice in a laptop, it seems pathetic that the Foleo can only achieve a battery life of 5 hours.
The five hours is supposed to be on a bright screen with Wi-Fi on.
I had a 12" iBook about 4 years back that could get three and half to four hours worth of use with access to the hard drive and optical drive. Needless to say, battery life declines with time.
This prompts another question about the Foleo, does it have a user replaceable battery?
Yes. It's not made by Apple… Anyway, having changed "un-changeable" batteries to a Treo 270 and many iPods, who cares?
RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
It's the resolution that matters.
Yea, because there are so many 10" screens with 2500x1600 resolution that gobble up more power than those 17" screens which only have the low 680x400 resolution.
What is puzzling about the Foleo is that it has a relatively short battery life despite the fact it lacks features which consume the battery i.e. large screen, hard drive, optical drive and yes, floppy.
Anyway, having changed "un-changeable" batteries to a Treo 270 and many iPods, who cares?
The last thing someone wants to do whilst travelling is start fiddling with screwdrivers to open up their electronic devices.
The Foleo is aimed at people who are away from their desktop, otherwise what's the point of the Foleo and Treo? All the more reason to have a long battery life and/or a way of easily swapping batteries whilst on the road. There are two big screws on the back of the Foleo which hint the possibility of a swappable battery, so I shall wait until Palm actually puts some detailed specs on their site.
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. Aaron Levenstein
RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
http://scifidesktop.org.uk/WallpaperStore/Actors/Richard/Richard_D_Anderson-MacGyver_001.jpg
I meant changing dead batteries, then one of these is handy:
http://www.wenger.ch/scripts/Modules/Products/listOne.aspx?idProducts=191&idn=99
http://www.victorinox.com/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=350&lang=E
There are two big screws on the back of the Foleo which hint the possibility of a swappable battery, so I shall wait until Palm actually puts some detailed specs on their site.
The Compact Flash card is under the battery, so if the battery wasn't removable, changing CF cards would be challenging. Anyway somewhere it was confirmed that the battery is swappable, don't remember where (Brighthand, treo|central).
RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
Can I bring your swiss army knife or multi-tool solution through airport security to use on a flight?
The Foleo can still be used on the flight with the wifi and Bluetooth off.
Gotcha!
RE: Foleo Battery Life is Very Disappointing
Then the battery lasts longer.
Since Foleo does have a swappable battery, take an extra. Or something like this:
http://www.boxwave.com/products/versachargerpro/index.htm
In case of wanting to play something on an Treo 270 during a 13 hour flight, just ditch the screws. It still stays in one piece.
RE: To accompany the Fooleo, the Goofoff!
Palm is going to go after... the Sony MYLO?!!?
WTF is my PDA with REAL RAM?!!?
RE: To accompany the Fooleo, the Goofoff!
But maybe NOT!
-- http://morningpaper.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/07/palm_gandof_3.jpg
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15088&d=1181407556
Gack!
Arrrgggggggh!!!!
I've had PDA's of all stripes. At the moment, nothing can come close to my Tungsten T3 in terms of software, stability and utility. I have a phone. I don't want my PDA to be a phone. I would gladly shell out big bucks for an updated T3. How hard is that?
LifeDrive was a cool idea, but again, a few hours in these and other forums would have told Palm what it needed and at what cost.
And what the heck is a "Foolmeo?" Anybody with experience in the PDA/Portable market would have killed it during concept phase, unless, of course, those working the concept were passing a crack pipe. Or mebbe I'm smoking crack because I don't want a PDA phone that works with a non-Win portable that I'd have to carry with my Win/Lin Laptop. Note that I am a Linux user.
PLEASE, OH PLEASE, someone produce a PocketPC with an Palm emulator that will run Palm applications at near native speed. I'll buy it.
In the words of Yoda:
A better PDA crap a could I.
RE: Arrrgggggggh!!!!
A casual scanning of these and other forums over the years would have allowed them to develop products that would sell to an extremely dedicated installed base.
Of what? 450 users?
I'm not saying that Palm has only that many dedicated users. I'm saying that that's about how many who are the customer type that posts on these forums. All male, all gadget freaks, all with serious Internet addictions, and, by and large, all needing to get real lives. Why don't you try showing the Foleo to someone who travels a lot on business and has to lug around something that either weighs or costs three times the Foleo just so they can do email and edit office documents? You might be surprised at the response you get.
Look, I realize that years of experience in product marketing isn't a requirement for posting on PIC, and I hate to sound condescending, but there really *are* people who have very different needs when it comes to mobility than you and Palm *probably* has a better idea of this than you. I don't know whether the Foleo will succeed or not, but I have talked to a fair few business smartphone users who think they could use something like it.
I'm with you, though: I'd like to have a smaller simpler phone that gives a solid, high-bandwidth pipe to the Internet for an updated T3. The difference between us is that I have a pretty good idea that we're a small (though highly vocal) minority in the market--too small for a company the size of Palm to risk a lot of resources on, now. So, get a Dell, dude.
Er... well, get a Sony or a Garmin or a Toshiba, then.
Ah... well, you get the idea.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Arrrgggggggh!!!! and double Arrrgggggggh!!!!
Look, I realize that years of experience in product marketing isn't a requirement for posting on PIC, and I hate to sound condescending, but there really *are* people who have very different needs when it comes to mobility than you and Palm *probably* has a better idea of this than you. I don't know whether the LifeDrive will succeed or not, but I have talked to a fair few business users who think they could use something like it.
Beersy, stop playing the Palm Apologist Fool(eo). I hope by now you've figured out what the FOOLeo is all about. Its current implementation, is nothing more than a testbed for Palm to experiment with the syncing between data stored on both smartphones and wirelessly connected servers. The current FOOLeo is to Palm's future what the Handspring Treo 180 was to the Treo 700p.
It appears that Palm ran out of time in its attempt to deliver a cohesive new platform consisting of smartphones and micro laptops running PalmLinux and connecting to remote servers. Much as was the case with PalmSource with their Cobalt disaster, Palm elected to ship whatever it had (the FOOLeo) in the lab, just to save face.
THIS is what Jeff Hawkins was trying to create:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9453/#133606
Instead, what we have now is little more than a clamshell AlphaSmart Dana. If Hawkins is expecting that developers are going to save his bacon (AGAIN) by writing the software that Palm was incapable of producing itself, he's sadly mistaken. It will be a shame if this whole "Palm smartphone as PC" concept dies on the vine - Hawkins' idea had (has?) the potential to revolutionize the computer industry.
TVoR
Foleo will die
SubNotebooks are way better.
But Via NanoBook is the ultimate killer of this Foleo.
Lighter, x86 system and software, 4 cards, usb,bluetooth,wlan,lan
optional dvb,gsm,gps.. 30gb hdd (maby later replaced with ssd). For some $600.
ONE Browser Page Only for Fooleo???
And I m typing this on a Nokia n800 with multiple opera windows open.
Is there at least a "system tray" ttype space so you can iimpliment gaim notification in the future?
looks like a dealkilller. beersie and colligan and hawkins will have you believe that your desktop experience will be equal to or greater than windows. think again.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Being able to switch quickly between several browser windows is one of the things that makes the N800 so useful as compared to a Treo, so I hope the Foleo does the same.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023&page=2
as a side note - there seems to be some consternation over what the fooleo power charger might look like in terms of size, weight, and bulk. not sure if it is technically possible, but it i think it would have been optimal to use the SAME charger as the Treo - then you could charge your fooleo from your treo travel and car chargers as opposed to lugging along yet another power brick.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
WTF?!!? Gekko, you got an N800?!!?
It's true then: your brain IS damaged...
OTOH: Last night I pulled out the &^%$ing 770 after yet ANOTHER crash trying to do ANY WiFi on the LifeDrive...
...I was shocked. I caught myself using, in COMPARISON you understand, the word "fast" to describe WiFi with the 770...
If Palm thinks what the LifeDrive delivers is WiFi, god help us all when it comes to the Flopeo. I wouldn't be surprised if it's single-pane browsing. It's something Palm would do.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Gekko was his usual sloppy self. He didn't do the quoting correctly. HE didn't buy an N800. A TC poster did.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
And as someone else pointed out, that is horrible for ebay use alone.
ONE Browser Page Only for Fooleo???
Ben doesn't seem to want to answer my question.
----
Ben - forget about Tabs for a second - how many web pages can I have up at once on the current Foleo? Can I have multiple web pages open at the same time? Say Google, eBay, and Palm.com all up at the same time just like in Windows/IE? Or am I limited to one browser page/instance at a time?
Thanks.
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=146023&page=4
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
answer from Ben -
>Because of this, there's only one "Web Browser" application, and at the moment, it only views one web page at time. There's limited support for pop-up windows, but they act like dialogs and must be dismissed before further navigation in the main window.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Palm made some drastic improvements in the stability of their wi-fi implementation between the LifeDrive & the TX. Seriously. The TX might be a bit faster but it's the fact that its wi-fi is SO much more stable than the LifeDrive's is what amazes me.
Are you running a ROM version 1.0 or 2.0 on your CFified LifeDrive, btw?
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Stop it. Blazer sucks and there's just no getting around that.
Opera Mini and iUniverse (is that its name) suck too.
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Poster claims to have attended a 'Fooleo Preview'
Opera Mini 4 actually looks quite promising, as does Universe. Trouble is both are still in beta.
Anyhoo, it's not like other mobile browsers don't have their own problems. Exhibit A: iPhone's hacktastic Safari!
Right after the first Hello World app, the New York Times is now reporting that security firm Independent Security Evaluators has discovered the first flaw in iPhone's security, taking "complete control" over all data and call capabilities by using a simple Web page, apparently just loading it and without any user intervention whatsoever.In the words of the company's principal security expert and ex-NSA agent Dr. Charles A. Miller:
"Once you did manage to find a hole, you were in complete control."
According to the John Schwartz reporting for the NYT:
"The site injected a bit of code into the iPhone that then took over the phone. The phone promptly followed instructions to transmit a set of files to the attacking computer that included recent text messages -- including one that had been sent to the reporter's cellphone moments before -- as well as telephone contacts and e-mail addresses."
Scary? It gets worse: they can use your iPhone to make calls - all without any user intervention, just by loading the web page.
Oh dear...
Three years in development yet not ready for prime time
-- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1314792&postcount=162
RE: I am hopping from foot to foot - how about you!?
I for one am *very* enthusiastic, both as a user and developer.
David Beers
Pikesoft Mobile Computing
www.pikesoft.com/blog
RE: I am hopping from foot to foot - how about you!?
...who spends every waking hour....
So you think he sleeps? I was assuming his complete lack of sleep could help explain things. But maybe you're right.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
The FOOLeo's specs finally revealed!
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1312804&postcount=18
http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1312903&postcount=24
Consensus at Treocentral seems to be the FOOLeo has nice quality hardware but crappy software.
And if there was any doubt that PalmOS 5 is dead, the OS timeline diagram in the Palm CFO's presentation seals it. Will FOOLeoOS + PalmOS Classic emulator = PalmLinux (PalmOS 7)???
RE: The FOOLeo's specs finally revealed!
They deserve it.
It is understandable why PALM would want to get the Fooleo out
-- http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/25/medison-celebrity-150-of-linux-laptop-for-the-people/
Gack.
Nail in the coffin
http://www.dynamism.com/htc-shift/main.shtml
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/htc-shift-the-cellphone-company-finally-goes-umpc/
IIIx -> T|T -> Treo650
RE: Nail in the coffin
As crazy as it sounds, if you offered me both devices, I'd probably take the Foleo because it is at least a device I can use. Since I'd have to carry either device in some kind of bag, I might as well be carrying a full-sized keyboard and decent sized screen. (Ok, so there are some kinds of monster cargo pants out there that would make the Shift "pocketable", but that is not a realistic option for me.) I guess that's the problem I'm having every time I see a "UMPC". I just keep wondering how people can really use the thing. It's just too big for a pocket, but too small to be truly useful.
I actually like the vision that Palm is trying to sell here. The idea that your smartphone is your mobile computer and you just need to "accessorize" it with useful tools is quite interesting. I don't know if the Foleo is the right device for the mix or if they can pull it off, but it does make sense to me.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
RE: Nail in the coffin
Pilot 1000-->Pilot 5000-->PalmPilot Pro-->IIIe-->Vx-->m505-->T|T-->T|T2-->T|C-->T|T3-->T|T5-->TX-->Treo 700P
RE: Nail in the coffin
POCKET SIZED TX-style
You KNOW they aren't going to do it. I'm with Pat on this one; they keep one eye on PIC and make sure they don't do anything we want. It's their way of punishing us for being so critical. :)
The foldable keyboards are great. I keep one in my backpack and it takes up little more room than a PDA anyway. But, I have a very thin piece of plywood that fits in the computer slot of my backpack and serves as a tray for both my foldable keyboard and for my laptop computer (because it gets too hot sitting directly on my lap). (Of course I stained it nicely to look like a dark maple, etc.) There is something to be said for a device that could sit on my lap and not need the board. And there is something to be said for a device that I don't have to unfold and then squint at the (relatively) tiny 3.7" screen, all the while wondering if the next sway or bump of the plane/train/automobile are going to throw it onto the floor.
When I put all of the "solutions" to those problems together, out comes something looking quite like the Folio. And I really am thinking that unless it is a truly pocketable device, 10 inches is the minimum screen size I want to be staring at. Seven inch screen and a barely "peckable" keyboard are not gonna cut it for me. Anything smaller, and it had better fit into a normal sized from pants pocket.
Thinking about Vista? Think again: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
Want an alternative? Try this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ or http://www.mepis.org/
Usefulness of Foleo depends on what it will do
Did it really exist?
RE: Did it really exist?
Either something exists or it doesn't, SV. Pre does. We have pictures. (ever read the articles on the site you're reading?)
RE: Did it really exist?
RE: Did it really exist?
It's fair to call the Foleo vaporware, in my opinion.
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: Did it really exist?
Fire at will!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: Did it really exist?
I think Mike's got this one right. /ignore
"twrock is infamous around these parts" (from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
Apple on Fooleo
hmmmn....Apple isn't impressed with current Netbook hardware/software.....imagine what they thought of Fooleo?
Jan 21, 2009
how about those sub-$500 mini-laptop "netbooks" that PC companies like Asus and Acer - but not Apple - are peddling?
On Apple's conference call today, COO Tim Cook said the company is "watching that space," but it's not too impressed with what it's seen so far.
"...Right now, from our point of view, the products in there are principally based on hardware that's much less powerful than we think customers want, software technology that is not good, cramped keyboards, small displays. Et cetera. We don't think that people are going to be pleased with those type of products. But we'll see."
RE: Apple on Fooleo
So Apple also thinks your beloved Dell's netbooks are total crap too.
And yeah, compared to MSI and Samsung and Acer, they are.
RE: Apple on Fooleo
Gee, I thought that was my "misinterpretation". Are you simply that transparently inconsistent, or do you actually have some sort of problem with your short-term memory?
In any case, I'm sure the folks at Chevy think BMWs are "total crap", too, for whatever that's worth. The fact is that netbooks, as a segment, have come out of nowhere to sell on the order of some 10 million units in the past year. Regardless of what Apple "thinks", people are buying netbooks in increasing numbers.
RE: Apple on Fooleo
And while Dell makes some superb fullsize laptops & some fairly decent desktops, their netbooks are total crud compared to Acer/Asus/Lenovo/MSI/Samsung and even HP.
Apple has no business trying to compete in the netbook market because they CANNOT. And people are ranting & raving over the recent mild upgrades to the $999.99 Macbook...look at what kind of Wintel system you can buy for a grand these days. Blows all of Apple's stuff right out of the water, IF you can live with the various Windows quirks. Apple's charging a huge premium for their aesthetics & casing, since the innards are now merely comprised of last year's PC hardware.
I'd personally rather just build a Hackintosh but that's just me.
Palm failed to see the attraction of "powerful" netbooks like the original EEE and that was one of the (many) fundamental flaws of the Fooleo. Apple and Sony are basially in that same boat now. M$ is crying the blues right now over netbooks manufacturers running low-cost XP licenses...it's still better than having 'em run some flavor of Linux, OS X, or a pirated XP install, isn't it?
It's so funny to see how netbooks continue to be gobbled up by consumers but everyone in the industry hates them. I spoke to two Intel reps at CES. I told them I loved my EEE but they needed to get it in gear and come up with a more compelling platform for the Atom than the moldy old 945GSE...and the Atom N270 needed a major peformance boost. They got incensed and started squealing about netbooks being designed for people who "don't care about performance". All they wanted to do was steer my attention to some of the higher-cost (and higher-margin!) C2D ULV machines on display nearby. Essentially the same thing happened at the MSI and Asus booths as well.
In these dire ecomic times, manufacturers should be delighted to see consumers purchasing *anything* in droves regardless of whether it's a $400 netbook or a $1000+ "real" notebook.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: Apple on Fooleo
And you are bordering on Dumbass of the Year by saying Apple CANNOT (your caps) compete with netbooks. Compete in what way? Price point? Sony didn't with the VAIO P. Even hp's initial netbook offering had a jaw-drop price - which was especially stunning given the crap VIA CPU in it. Colligan didn't think Apple could compete in phones. Don't follow that path of Ed's. You keep think Apple should basically put out an all-plastic MSI Wind running OS X. Why? You can buy an MSI and slap OS X on it yourself. Oh, you want an official Apple logo on it? The quality that guarantees comes at what's called a premium.
And gee, for someone whose Abcess OS is going to conquer the world, that other guy seems to have a lot of free time lately. I guess Abcess is busy preparing their bankruptcy papers!
RE: Apple on Fooleo
I totally give you the point on the iPhone price freefall. But also do not fail to take into account the the TCO of that device AND the fact that it's basically been an aberation in the electronics world due to any number of factors (Apple putting price pressure on suppliers, the lucrative iTunes revenue, heavy subsidization by AT&T etc etc etc). When was the last time something THAT popular dropped THAT much in price THAT quickly? I mean, it took LCD TVs a number of years to see their prices slashed to 1/3 of what they were.
I don't THINK Apple should even attempt to play in the all-plastic <$500 netbook realm. Why should they when all the people who care have already, as you stated, slapped OS X on a bone-stock MSI Wind that you can get for under $350 now?
My point is that Apple should just (for the forseeable future, at least) totally ignore the netbook market b/c people that buy netbooks are in no way,shape or form competing with Apple for sales. Sony should have ignored the Netbook market as well, given the likely pitiful sales figures the VAIO P will end up with. HP totally missed the boat 2x in a row with their Mininote line but they'll ultimately wrangle out a decent chunk of marketshare due to their sheer muscle and their domestic retail presence (Costco, Office Depot etc) where guys like Asus, Lenovo and MSI have minimal presence if any.
Look at how many people have bought iPod Shuffles & Nanos when you can get, say, a comparably priced Sandisk Sansa that's not as flashy but has a screen, FM tuner, microSD expansion slot etc. Yet when was the last time you saw some uber-cool hipster sporting a Sansa? Again, Apple CANNOT compete feature for feature at every price point with the big Asian firms...and why should they care, the Apple branding is going to command a certain price premium and carry the still-enormous Apple cult cachet. And as long as Apple has the iTunes ecosystem integration and sticks to their (usually) standards of quality, they can get away with omitting "essential" features like flash memory card slots and removable batteries.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html
The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel. For application developers, the web is the platform. All web-based applications will automatically work and new applications can be written using your favorite web technologies. And of course, these apps will run not only on Google Chrome OS, but on any standards-based browser on Windows, Mac and Linux thereby giving developers the largest user base of any platform....We hear a lot from our users and their message is clear — computers need to get better. People want to get to their email instantly, without wasting time waiting for their computers to boot and browsers to start up. They want their computers to always run as fast as when they first bought them. They want their data to be accessible to them wherever they are and not have to worry about losing their computer or forgetting to back up files. Even more importantly, they don't want to spend hours configuring their computers to work with every new piece of hardware, or have to worry about constant software updates. And any time our users have a better computing experience, Google benefits as well by having happier users who are more likely to spend time on the Internet.
Who's going to be the first to release? If Foleo 2 is in the works at Palm (and I reckon it still is, although Colligan's departure has dented that dream a little), they're going to want to speed things up a bit. Google says it wants Chrome OS products by "second half 2010".
RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
google chrome os is running on netbook class hardware - said hardware is magnitudes better then the garbage inside of the foleo.
For example, my lenovo S10 has 2 gig. of ram, and a 320 gig. hard drive.
I'd expect the chrome OS to make reasonably good use of the netbook hardware...from what I've read, it sounds like it will resemble jolicloud.
RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
What could a Foleo 2 really add anyway? The netbook market is big, but with very thin profit margins and tons of powerful competition.
RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
Is this New Thang the same as Palm's Next Great Thang? Yeah, more or less.
And THAT is Palm's stupendous problem now - Android and Chrome are EVERYWHERE, WebOS isn't even out of Beta.
RE: Two years later, here comes Google to take on Foleo 2
Let's see how Android is absorbed into Chrome OS.
Microsoft is the big loser.
And Apple better be watching its back.
And Palm ... well, it was a nice 2009 for you.
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
still, I'm going to hold out and see what the ChromeOS devices look like. Plus, there's always the mythical Foleo 2...
(Incidentally, I love it whenever someone revives this thread. Foleo 1 really was Palm's PR nadir, wasn't it.)
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
please stop perpetuating the myth that palm invented the netbook with the fooleo. it's revisionist history and it's offensive and insulting.
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
please stop perpetuating the myth that palm invented the netbook with the fooleo. it's revisionist history and it's offensive and insulting.
Insulting to Palm maybe since they were on the verge of creating a whole new market and threw it away because of poor execution and lack of will to pull the trigger. But the form factor and keyboard of the Foleo were better than most modern netbooks at a time when that product category didn't yet exist. So yeah, I would say that Palm did invent the netbook with the Foleo and failed to realize the potential of the product much as Xerox invented the GUI and left it to Apple and Microsoft to actually put out a product and make money off it.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
Prior to the Fooleo, you had the OLPC (what I primarily credit for starting the netbook craze), various Psion machines, stuff like NEC's Win CE units from the late '90s and early '00s (see here: http://tinyurl.com/lpnf8n) and even older stuff like Atari's Portfolio or the original Tandy Model 100.
Palm beat Asus to their original EEE announcement in 2007 by, what, 2 weeks? And of course, Asus had hundreds of thousands of units shipping into the channel while Palm was in the processing of aborting the Fooleo entirely. A netbook per se is more of a full-powered (ie 1GHZ+ and downsized Wintel x86 architecture). The Fooleo is more like the early ancestor of the smartbooks (without the integrated connectivity) that I predict are going to hit the market with a resounding thud.
And I could almost assure you that the weakest EEE PC from 2007 would still possess more horsepower than a Fooleo 2 had Palm stuck with the concept. Look, people bitch and moan about not being able to stream 480p+ video on netbooks or play any decent 3D games NOW. The lack of multimedia capabilities or any integrated storage doomed the Fooleo from the start and in the past 2 years a lot of people have come to rely on Flash-based streaming media, despite all of its inefficiencies.
I WILL give Palm plenty of credit for emphasizing on having a relatively large, high-res screen and a decently-sized keyboard. But the Fooleo had in its innards what was essentially (IMHO) the guts of an aborted LifeDrive 2. Same passively cooled 416Mhz Intel PXA CPU, no video acceleration capabilities, and dual memory card slots CF& SD. Sound familiar?
P.S. For the record, while I love the netbook concept, I see Intel and Microsoft eventually smothering the life out of the category. If they don't kill it entirely, they are going to keep it on line support. They've gotta protect their margins on CULV & full-sized notebooks! I liked the Intel of 2005-2007 (scared of AMD and firing on all cylinders to innovate at a breakneck pace) much more so than the Intel of now (slow, stingy, arrogant and moving at a glacial pace, just like how they used to be).
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
Hardware driven innovation cannot be afforded by the market any more. There is no money in it. There will be no market for it. Computers are boring.
......
However, the desktop PC is crap. It's rubbish. The experience is so bloated and slowed down in all the things that matter to us. We all own computers today that were considered supercomputers 10 years ago. 10 years ago we owned supercomputers of 20 years ago.. and so on. So why on earth is everything so slow? If they're exponentially faster why does it take longer than ever for our computers to start, for the applications to start and so on? Sure, when they get down to the pure number crunching they're amazing (just encode a video and be amazed). But in everything else they must be unbelievably slower than ever.Computers of today may be 1,000 times faster than they were a decade ago, yet the things that matter are slower.
It's still true. They can keep cramming faster and faster hardware into netbooks and they still won't be able to overcome the general bottlenecks of desktop OS's. I love my Eee but can easily recognize its shortcomings.
The real value in a Foleo 2 would be in using an optimized-for-mobile OS, rather than uber-powerful hardware.
(Digging up that quote from the 2007 PIC archives was fun. Beersie was still kicking, and Cane & Bosco still hated my guts. Good times...)
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
To trot out the old quote again...
Hardware driven innovation cannot be afforded by the market any more. There is no money in it. There will be no market for it. Computers are boring.
......
However, the desktop PC is crap. It's rubbish. The experience is so bloated and slowed down in all the things that matter to us. We all own computers today that were considered supercomputers 10 years ago. 10 years ago we owned supercomputers of 20 years ago.. and so on. So why on earth is everything so slow? If they're exponentially faster why does it take longer than ever for our computers to start, for the applications to start and so on? Sure, when they get down to the pure number crunching they're amazing (just encode a video and be amazed). But in everything else they must be unbelievably slower than ever.
Computers of today may be 1,000 times faster than they were a decade ago, yet the things that matter are slower.
It's still true. They can keep cramming faster and faster hardware into netbooks and they still won't be able to overcome the general bottlenecks of desktop OS's. I love my Eee but can easily recognize its shortcomings.
There's a reason why Windows XP is so popular on netbooks. It's smaller and faster than newer versions of Windows on their slower hardware. So the choice of OS hides their shortcomings somewhat.
Having said that, there is a lot that can be done to optimize any computer, particularly given the bloated crapware that computer companies tend to stick on their computers. I think that one of the reasons why Windows 7 is already so popular long before it ships (besides the fact that Vista sucks) is that it represents a fresh start for users. You can blow away all the crap that originally came with your computer. (I just built a new Shuttle PC with Windows 7 and didn't even need to install Shuttle's drivers on it, Windows 7 ran all the hardware with not effort.) When you get rid of that stubborn two year old install of Norton Antivirus and all the other crap that HP and Dell install on your PC by installing Windows 7 cleanly, suddenly your old, slow PC can get a new lease on life.
The real value in a Foleo 2 would be in using an optimized-for-mobile OS, rather than uber-powerful hardware.
Ultimately that was the dream. The point of the Foleo wasn't its hardware prowess but rather a legacy free OS that didn't need such powerful hardware. Now with ChromeOS as a possible future upgrade, the dream is back. The Android install on my T-Mobile G1 already looks more like a desktop OS crammed onto a phone. A beefed up version of Android or a cut down Ubuntu distro built around Chrome might fit more naturally on a netbook than Android does on phones and and more naturally than other Linux distros do on netbooks.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
RE: And Nokia officially introduces their ... ahem ... copycat
Microsoft is actually reducing the OS footprint and unbundling stuff people may not want (Messenger, Windows Mail etc) yet the hardware companies keep piling on more and more bloat. And the most recent batch of netbooks are shipping with a disturbing amount of bloatware (Gateway, Toshiba, Acer etc).
True, an ieal Fooleo 2 in THEORY would definitely need the optimized-for-mobile OS but it'd STILL need relatively decent hardware. Say, GMA 500-level graphics capbility and a decent SSD (not the pitiful ones used on the entry-level EEEs). But it ain't cheap or easy to write a new OS fron the ground up. That's why we are forced to just keep purging, tweaking, and streamlining our OSes and throwing more hardware at it.
Not to go too terribly far OT, Darth, but I definitely agree with your comments. I pulled out an older PC that I built a few years ago (Intel 915P mobo, 3Ghz Celeron, Radeon X300SE, 1GB DDR RAM) and tossed Win 7 on it. It ran quite nicely without any tweaking or overclocking. Much, much better than Vista would have. It's sad that MOST users' experience with Win 7 will be on a pre-loaded, bloated, sluggish retail PC OR from doing an in-place upgrade (carrying over all of the bloat from their previous Vista install) instead of doing a nice fresh install and a clean reformat. Microsoft's not helping matters by making Win 7 so damn difficult to do a clean install unless you buy the hideously overpriced full version.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
The man behind the netbook craze
The man behind the netbook craze
Posted by Michael V. Copeland, Senior Writer
November 20, 2009 6:00 AM
A few years ago rivals mocked Jonney Shih, chairman of Asustek, and his purse-size laptop computers. Millions of netbooks later, Shih is having the last laugh.
http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/11/20/the-man-behind-the-netbook-craze/
RE: The man behind the netbook craze
"In Buddhism you learn to accept everything, to let it flow through you," Shih says. "Then you can slow down and think clearly."
"Most people think Buddhism is passive or about escape," he says. "It's not. It's about confronting what's in front of you with a clear and flexible mind. That might be a hot day or your competition, but you accept it and do everything the best at that moment."
"You need to be a lion. A lion has position in the jungle," Shih says. "So we kept driving the performance, quality, and innovation of our motherboards — we kept our leading position in the jungle. But I realized that at the same time you have to have big market share. You need to be a giant lion."
Four Years To The Day: Asus Announces Son Of Foleo
http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/four-years-to-the-day-asus-announces-son-of-foleo/
OMG. The horror.
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Hmmmmm....
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill