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Comments on: Treo 800w Review - First Impressions

Treo 800w ReviewThe long awaited, oft rumored and much anticipated Wi-Fi equipped Treo 800w has now been officially made official. The Palm Treo 800w debuts today on Sprint for $249 after the usual contracts and rebates. In addition to Wi-Fi technology, the 800w also packs in a number of other significant firsts for Palm including high-speed EvDO Rev A, integrated GPS functionality and the latest version of Windows Mobile 6.1 with a 320 x 320 pixel display.

I've been using the Treo 800w for only a few days and am working on my full detailed review. In the meantime I've put together my first impressions of the device along with some high-res live pictures and tips. Read on for the first part of my Treo 800w review.

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Great impression

grubber @ 7/14/2008 9:15:07 AM # Q
I love the idea of the WiFi switch. 20-30 seconds to get a GPS fix indoor is also very impressive. Shame about the processor though. Looking forward to the full review Ryan.

RE: Great impression
handmeld @ 7/14/2008 10:20:09 AM # Q
You should run spb's benchmark application - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you see. Some of the scores are considerably faster than the 700wx....
Reply to this comment

So close yet still so far

hkklife @ 7/14/2008 10:57:09 AM # Q
I don't care how many optimizations they pack into it, an under-spec'd battery is still an under-spec'd battery. This thing should have no less than 1500/1600mAh battery, given that it's the fastest Treo CPU & data speeds yet and also has the most goodies that will suck down the battery.

I actually don't mind the FF that much (of course, I have yet to personally fondle one either).

It's taking forever, with plenty of growing pains along the way, but WinMob/CE is slowly but surely becoming a solid mobile OS. I'd still like to see MS totaly dump the Start button concept and try for someone a little more optimized for the small mobile screen experience.

It'd also be nice to see WM7 impost strict limits preventing ANY SSS (small square screens), no matter the resolution, on licensees' devices. Otherwise, we'll likely to keep going to 480x480, 640x640, etc ad ifinitum...

It'a kinda tragic that Palm has abandoned the Palm OS Treo market for devices targeted at the playground. The 800w formfactor containing the optimized Centro innards + a few more bells & whistles (128mb RAM + 2gb internal flash drive + 3.5mm stereo headphone jack in lieu of Rev. A, Wi-Fi & GPS?) would make a perfect swan song for the Garnet OS.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: So close yet still so far
joad @ 7/14/2008 11:34:18 AM # Q
Yes, Palm hasn't seemed to learn much from the last 4 years of battery problems. 1150mAh can't be good - ESPECIALLY on a WinceMob device. My Seidio 2100 battery seems to be perfect for the drain of a 755p - I can almost always make it through the day. However, add in GPS and WIFI and I doubt it'll make it to lunch (unless I don't use it, which is kinda counterintuitive...).

Let 'em get the bugs out on Microsoft's dime, then perhaps we'll see a PalmOS version of the same phone with adequate battery. Styletap is not ready for prime time, also ridiculously expensive ($50 bux), not hotsync/TCP/IP capable, and slooooooooow..

|
**Another vote for a >100MB RAM Treo**

RE: So close yet still so far
LiveFaith @ 7/14/2008 5:49:09 PM # Q
I won't believe it actually has WiFi until I connect to my access point and download the entire library of Hee-Haw reruns, and then tear it apart and touch the actual antenna itself.

Pat Horne
RE: So close yet still so far
jkirvin @ 7/15/2008 6:27:27 PM # Q
re: undersized battery
Thanks to the optimizations in Windows Mobile 6.1 and the reduced die size on the processor, the old mAh numbers don't really apply to new devices. Why do you think the VGA-screened HTC Diamond can get away with a 900 mAh battery? I get the same battery life, roughly, out of my 800w with WM 6.1 and a 65nm die processor as I did on my Mogul with WM 6.0 and a 90nm die processor, despite dropping from a 1540 mAh battery to a 1150 mAh battery.

In short, you don't know what you think you know, and don't knock it until you've tried it.

RE: So close yet still so far
jeffhoward001 @ 7/15/2008 9:04:40 PM # Q
Interesting thought... A REAL Treo 800p (as opposed to everyone calling the Centro the 800p before it was RTM). I really like my Centro, and the only thing I would change about it would be a bit larger form factor (probably about the size of the 800w :-), and EVDO Rev A.

Would be funny for Palm's most successful PalmOS Treo to be the very last. Hell, I'd probably trade up my Centro for a slightly larger, faster version. Honestly though, the Centro's a pretty solid phone. I'm a heavy Exchange EAS(Push) mail/calendar/contacts, web app, remote desktop, 3000 mins/month users, and the centro keeps taking the hits. It does have it moments (the dreaded DBCache lag when switching between Email and the Web browser, and an occasional soft-rest), but pretty much on-par or better than every other phone/smart-phone I've ever owned.

Tungsten T -> Palm TX -> TX & Centro (Good combo so far!)

RE: So close yet still so far
hkklife @ 7/15/2008 9:22:23 PM # Q
Ah Hell, it'll NEVER happen but it's fun to dream.

Here's a fully fleshed-out 800p AKA "Centro 800":

-800w formfactor, modified to accomodate a 3.5mm stereo headphone jack (where the wi-fi button is currently) & a thicker battery, since wi-fi & GPS are being jettisoned
-NVFs-optimized Centro innards + tweaked ROM fixes
-128mb RAM + 2gb internal flash drive w/ drive mode + plenty of heap/cache memory
-Same 2mp cameras as 800w
-EVDO Rev. 0 only, due to OS limitations
-Available simultaneously on ALL major CDMA carriers
-Google Mobile Maps 2.x in ROM
-Same bundle as on the Centro (latest versions possible, possibly with a game or two in ROM as well)
-Include a prefs setting for setting the 2 buttons under the LCD for quick-launching apps (and provide the necessary API support to all developers). With with the developers to make DTG, GMM, Ptunes, and at least a few of the bundled apps (Camera, Photos etc) work with those 2 buttons.
-Recode the GSM dialer/phone app for CDMA-this is a MUST!
-Source a better, brighter, whiter LCD (like the Centro's but larger)
-1500mAh battery standard (since none of the WinMob power-saving optimizations are there in Garnet

-Release it in 2 editions: One the standard black/white through the carriers...and the other a limited edition "COBALT BLUE" available only from palm.com and with a metal stylus included instead of the 800w's plastic one. Oh yeah, include a fancy matching leather case (black w/ cobalt blue accents, please) + Hotsync cradle in the limited edition box as well!

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: So close yet still so far
AdamaDBrown @ 7/15/2008 9:27:06 PM # Q
It's true that 6.1 is more efficient with the battery than ever before, but that doesn't change the underlying reality that when you pack this many features into a device with a small battery you're going to use it up fast if you take advantage.

I had my 800w eat its entire battery in 24 hours of standby, simply because it was roaming. I'm running a battery test right now, and the device is on track to provide about 2.5 hours of WiFi use on a charge.

By the way, the Mogul is officially going to get a new WM6.1 ROM too. It's already unofficially available.

RE: So close yet still so far
not a techie @ 8/11/2008 1:34:21 PM # Q
I just bought the Treo 800w and have to confirm that the battery is completely inadequate. I just moved to DC and really need the GPS feature. While the GPS works great, I have now used it three times. Every time I went from a fully charged battery to a nearly completely discharged battery after only using it for 30 minutes. The first time I was stranded because the battery had fully discharged by the time I needed to return and since my phone was also inaccessible I couldn't call anyone for help. I am truly disappointed because I need an all in one device but if it can't hold a charge, it seems pointless. I'm going to return it.
Reply to this comment

WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!

LiveFaith @ 7/14/2008 5:45:30 PM # Q
You did it. You really did it. WiFi. What a concept. I'm proud of you guys, and it sounds like the integration with hardware buttons is an extra plus too. I'll even give em' credit fir doing it on WM too.

I hope somebody has spoken with Mr. Colligen and the sycophants who constantly knocked the props out from under "WiFi on a Smartphone", not to mention PDAs. The "talking points" need a good changin' folks. Four years of futility and foolish excuses has finally given way to the obvious. Biz users want and need WiFi.

I know the rumors have confirmed this for months now, but I thought someone should give credit where credit is due. Now on to bigger and better "unnecessary" things like a real stylus, 3.5mm audio, or God forbid HVGA or VGA.

PIC whiners now need to set their sights on 2012. It's not that far away you know.

Pat Horne

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
SeldomVisitor @ 7/14/2008 6:31:57 PM # Q
We haven't had feedback on battery hit of WiFi yet. Apparently if you use the phone the way its being marketed (wifi, bluetooth, push email - you know, business use) you might not appreciate the "almost 4 hours" of talk time. Or have it.

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
LiveFaith @ 7/14/2008 8:54:23 PM # Q
Chill out there Chief. WiFi is not needed anyway and will never be used. :-0

Pat Horne
RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
cstamper @ 7/15/2008 11:25:13 AM # Q
Just like I thought. Palm can do no good.

Really, this is impressive, esp. coming from Palm. Besides the OS of course... :-P

http://tinyurl.com/2ooncg

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
joad @ 7/15/2008 2:04:43 PM # Q
Yeah, wow - WiFi on a PDA/Phone - in mid-2008! Palm is cutting edge, baby.

And to do it on Windows Mobile! We never thought THAT would happen... It even has a COLOR SCREEN! And apparently it's powered by wind - as that much battery capacity probably won't power the phone for very long...


Where's my flying helicopter car? I KNOW Palm's got a fleet of them hidden away in Sunnyvale (probably being used by the leprechauns who've been developing Palm OS6 for the past 8 years or so)...

|
**Another vote for a >100MB RAM Treo**

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
LiveFaith @ 7/15/2008 3:27:27 PM # Q
** Just like I thought. Palm can do no good. **

Dude, what part of just gettin' downright stupid praising Palm did you not get. Yeah, it's over the top, but somebody around here needed to give credit, even if it is 4 years late. Every Palm site on the planet has been begging for WiFi since 2003-4. At least Palm finally stepped up.

The only problem is "if nobody is in the forest, does a tree falling actually make noise?" Like he said, it's 2008. Kinda like bringing out fuel injection on my latest car. A bit late to the game, but still thankful.

Pat Horne

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
hkklife @ 7/15/2008 4:49:51 PM # Q
Let's look at a quick summary of Palm's spotty history with wi-fi:

1. Tungsten C released with 802.11b, April 2003. THE power users' PDA for its time. Its specs still hold up well 5+ years later.

2. Palm Wi-Fi SDIO card released, August 2003. Only the T|T3 & Zire 72 are officially supported. Treo 650 drivers are semi-promised by Colligan but never materialize.

3. Palm LifeDrive released with 802.11b, May 2005. Palm's implementation of wi-fi & Blazer on this device (and the LifeDrive in general) is so disasterous that it's hardly worth anyone's time.

4. Palm TX released with 802.11b, October 2005. Finally Palm gets it right from the get-go (screen size/resolution, pricing, stability, amount of RAM, BT & wi-fi).

5. Palm Treo 700w released, January 2006. Includes native support for Palm's wi-fi card. Finally, a non-sled, non-hacked, (albeit kludgey) wi-fi solution for a Treo. But with such a paltry amount of onboard memory, is it worth sacrificing your SD slot's storage capabilities to gain wi-fi?

6.Palm Fooleo announced, then cancelled (May-September 2007). This would have been Palm's first native wi-fi product in nearly 2 years had it not been canceled at the 11th hour. Among other things, many criticize Palm for sticking with the aging 802.11b instead of "g", especially with competitors like Asus' EEE PC lurking in the wings.

7. Treo 800w released, July 2008. Palm's first Treo with integrated wi-fi as well as Palm's first g-supporting device.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
DarthRepublican @ 7/20/2008 11:13:36 PM # Q

3. Palm LifeDrive released with 802.11b, May 2005. Palm's implementation of wi-fi & Blazer on this device (and the LifeDrive in general) is so disasterous that it's hardly worth anyone's time.

This is a popular mantra with the "Palm can do no right" crowd but I have owned a LifeDrive since the second day day it was available and while it is definitely more unstable than other Palm devices it wasn't that bad and it's wifi wasn't any more unstable than any other aspect of the device. In fact, even though I retired last Christmas after getting a Palm TX, one of the things that I've noticed about the LifeDrive is that it actually connects a little more quickly over wifi than my TX does. If every aspect of my LifeDrive had been as fast as its wifi performance (and if it had been more stable), I might still be using it today.


6.Palm Fooleo announced, then cancelled (May-September 2007). This would have been Palm's first native wi-fi product in nearly 2 years had it not been canceled at the 11th hour. Among other things, many criticize Palm for sticking with the aging 802.11b instead of "g", especially with competitors like Asus' EEE PC lurking in the wings.

Most of these critics never even used a Foleo and still use childish little nicknames for things they don't like despite being self-proclaimed "power users" and "professionals."

And speaking of the Asus EEE PC, it seems to me that if Palm had actually released the Foleo and if it had sold only one-sixth the number of units that the EEE PC did, that Palm would have likely made a tidy profit on it - even as an also-ran device - instead of eating a $10 million loss on it. That was the real problem with the Foleo, that Palm didn't have the guts to just release it and let the market decide its fate.

Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
abosco @ 7/21/2008 5:36:58 PM # Q
In fact, even though I retired last Christmas after getting a Palm TX...

Man, your Palm made you so unproductive that it actually put you into retirement? Wow. That's a new low, even for Palm.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + S710a

RE: WooHoo ... Way 2 Go Palm!!! Rah Rah Rah!
erazer @ 7/21/2008 10:33:19 PM # Q
Naw, man, u got it bass ackwards-the man got so PRODUCTIVE that he retired.

Reply to this comment

Treo 800w is fast

TooMuch @ 7/14/2008 8:55:33 PM # Q
Check out this speed comparison video the guys at PocketNow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XApljwMCUPU


RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/15/2008 7:25:10 AM # Q
I look forward to the review that tries to duplicate those results and fails.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/15/2008 8:58:48 PM # Q
I don't know quite how Palm did it, but the 800w is easily faster than similarly spec'd HTC devices (Mogul, Tilt). A buddy of mine has the Tilt and I have a Mogul. His jaw just about hit the floor when he saw how fast my 800w scrolls through a long list of emails compared side by side to his Tilt. Right now, the 800w is easily the fastest WM device out there, and I bet it will hold that title given how sluggishly TouchFlo 3D devices like the Diamond and Touch Pro are said to perform.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
TooMuch @ 7/15/2008 9:22:51 PM # Q
SV, what do you make of jkirvin's post?

RE: Treo 800w is fast
nastebu @ 7/15/2008 9:27:07 PM # Q
when people tell you exactly what you want to hear, they're very often lying.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
hkklife @ 7/15/2008 9:28:30 PM # Q
All y'all just wait until the SE Xperia X1 hits the market with a BOOM this fall. If any device can make me go to the double darkside (GSM + WinMob), it's that one...at least for the time being.

528mhz AND it doesn't even use any nasty proprietary Memory Stick variant but rather good ol' microSDHC!

http://wmexperts.com/reviews/smartphones/review_first_impressions_of_th.html

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: Treo 800w is fast
TooMuch @ 7/15/2008 9:35:06 PM # Q
"when people tell you exactly what you want to hear, they're very often lying."

get your head out of the sand

RE: Treo 800w is fast
TooMuch @ 7/15/2008 10:00:05 PM # Q
"SE Xperia X1"

Looks interesting

RE: Treo 800w is fast
AdamaDBrown @ 7/15/2008 10:04:02 PM # Q
Jeff, I don't see how it's faster than the Mogul. I've compared them side by side too, and while I can see how they'd be perceived as the same speed in terms of UI operations, the benchmarks tell a different tale.

hkk, the Xperia is some fine hardware. You weren't using that kidney that much anyway. :)

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/16/2008 8:18:50 AM # Q
> SV, what do you make of jkirvin's post?

Here're my thoughts:

============

SV: I read a post on an obscure message board that said the 800W was radically slower than the Mogul by someone I don't know at all, though the ID is familiar in a vaguely positive way. I read another post on the same message board by another ID that seems vaguely familiar in a vaguely negative way for no particularly good reason that I can remember that says that person saw someone else's comparison and says the 800W is radically faster than the Mogul.

W.r.t. The Video, it's junk, of course - a Fanboy with an agenda not telling us critical information about the "experimental setup" other than saying upfront that his own tests showed the 800W was slower but the UI was inexplicably (literally!) faster for two videoed tests (of how many others that WEREN'T faster?).

I guess this means I'm still waiting.


RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/16/2008 8:19:57 AM # Q
Adama, you're a smart enough guy to know that benchmarks on any computing platform have virtually nothing to do with real-world experience. Essentially:

The Treo 800w hardware is not as fast as the competition, especially from HTC.

The Treo 800w experience is much, much faster than the competition, especially from HTC.

This comes down to Palm's "special sauce", the software optimizations that make the Treo a Treo.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/16/2008 8:22:37 AM # Q
And wow, what a dark, dreary and bleak existence SV must have.

I have a Treo 800w. It's faster than my Mogul. It's faster than my friend's Tilt. I have absolutely nothing to gain by lying to you (bought the Treo with my own money and everything). If you refuse to believe that because you have an ax to grind, I pity you.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/16/2008 9:11:33 AM # Q
> ...If you refuse to believe that because you have an ax to grind, I pity you.

No, I refuse to believe that because YOU have an ax to grind.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
mikecane @ 7/16/2008 9:25:52 AM # Q
>>>No, I refuse to believe that because YOU have an ax to grind.

What ax does he have to grind?! He's switched between PalmOS & WM more times than I want to count! He's used enough different devices that I would believe what he says. That still doesn't make me want WM in any way shape or form, though.

Besides, if Apple ever opens up the iPhone's BT connection to portable external keyboards, he'll probably then jump to that! (So will all the rest of you!!)

RE: Treo 800w is fast
AdamaDBrown @ 7/17/2008 12:53:33 AM # Q
The Treo 800w experience is much, much faster than the competition, especially from HTC.

I can't agree. Nothing about the Treo 800w has struck me as unusually fast, or faster than comparable HTC units.

For all the talk about "secret sauce," Palm doesn't really make that much in the way of changes to their WM devices. Their alterations were more notable back when the 700w launched, because at that point Microsoft was still not keen on manufacturers customizing the OS package, but in the mean time we've seen a lot more radical overhauls of WM for other devices.

If somebody can tell me exactly what changes Palm makes to the core OS, that supposedly make the device faster, I'd be happy to eat my words. I just don't believe that in the highly competitive smartphone market, Palm's really sitting on customizations that are allowed by Microsoft but not practiced by any other OEM.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 10:31:59 AM # Q
RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 10:34:25 AM # Q
Apologies - not having TreoCentral access I cannot access "links" that people post - since I can't do that, I rarely fully read the link itself. In this case, the three posters above simply don't have the TEST file, not the device driver files.

If I could edit posts here this and the one above would be gone.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/17/2008 12:19:48 PM # Q
Adama said: "If somebody can tell me exactly what changes Palm makes to the core OS, that supposedly make the device faster, I'd be happy to eat my words. I just don't believe that in the highly competitive smartphone market, Palm's really sitting on customizations that are allowed by Microsoft but not practiced by any other OEM."

http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/treo_800w_direct3d_hardware_ac.html

Would you like ketchup with those words?

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 12:25:31 PM # Q
I'd like to know who makes the 800w and why that manufacturer hasn't done the same thing with other models.

Does ANY phone have that enabled?

If not, is there a reason other phones don't have that enabled - like buggy implementation?

Etc etc etc.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/17/2008 12:25:32 PM # Q
Before we get caught up in the usual PIC tin-foil hat hysteria, I walked into a local Sprint store and bought my 800w just like any other consumer. There is nothing special or custom about it. The D3DMDemo.exe file I found last night is a hidden, system file which wouldn't show up in the default file manager (I was using Resco Explorer).

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/17/2008 12:27:44 PM # Q
Rumor has it the Treo 800w is manufactured by Inventec, but no one seems to know for sure. The design is 100% Palm, though, so they would have provided the drivers. Inventec or whoever just builds them. The demo icon is a Texas Instruments logo, fwiw.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 12:48:38 PM # Q
> ...The design is 100% Palm, though, so they would
> have provided the drivers...

No and no.

Palm said outright (in most of their SEC report filings (10Q, 10K) that design is outsourced as well as manufacturing and has outright said that Windows devices are outsourced, e.g. from a 10Q:

== "...We outsource most of our hardware design and certain software
== development to third party manufacturers, some of whom compete with us..."
==
== "...We outsource all of our manufacturing requirements to third party
== manufacturers..."

and from an earnings call:

== "...leverage Windows Mobile and our ODM partners backed by Palm
== [design] expertise to serve our business customers..."

And...

The folks who would have written the graphics drivers would have been Qualcomm.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 12:54:54 PM # Q
I should have added a stronger corollary to the above subthread - the fact that Qualcomm would have been the device driver writer suggests that other Windows devices would contain those drivers and said drivers would be "visible" via something as simple as a registry entry flag.


RE: Treo 800w is fast
Ryan @ 7/17/2008 1:31:05 PM # Q
A little spinning cube graphics test does nothing to show how the device performs under real world situations. In my personal use so far I have found the device to be very underpowered at some fundamental business tasks. Of course I am still evaluating the device but I've been largely disappointed.

For instance, creating a new blank .docx word file takes over 20 seconds. Loading most desktop sized websites, dramatically slows the Internet Explorer browser down. And finally simply opening and scrolling html emails in the ~100k range bring the device to a crawl as well.

Anyone with a device care to confirm?

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 1:45:29 PM # Q
It is always important, when viewing test videos or reading test reports etc, to know what was omitted as well as included (i.e. from above):

== "...faster for two videoed tests (of how many others that WEREN'T faster?)...."


RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/17/2008 7:56:21 PM # Q
Ryan, you must have a defective Treo. Creating a new .docx file on my Treo takes about 6 seconds, not bad considering the zipped folder structure and XML documents it's creating from scratch. Loading desktop sized supersites (a la Engadget) takes about the same amount of time in IE Mobile or Opera Mobile 9.5, the only difference being that you can't zoom out in IE until the page finishes loading, whereas Opera starts zoomed out and makes you zoom back in later. Yes, massive HTML emails take a while to load, but how many 200k HTML emails (not counting graphics) do you get?

I stand by my previous assertion. Thanks to Palm's optimizations and the hardware acceleration, the Treo 800w is the fastest WM Pro user experience on the market today.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
SeldomVisitor @ 7/17/2008 8:32:56 PM # Q
I wonder why HTC refused to supply the drivers. Are they stupid? Did they know something? Why?

RE: Treo 800w is fast
Gekko @ 7/17/2008 10:19:19 PM # Q

who let kirvin out of his cage?

RE: Treo 800w is fast
jkirvin @ 7/18/2008 8:29:31 AM # Q
Gekko sez "who let kirvin out of his cage?"

I did. My bad.

Nice to see you too, Gek.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
Gekko @ 7/18/2008 8:44:11 AM # Q

it's all just fun and games here, man. fun and games.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
mikecane @ 7/18/2008 12:47:09 PM # Q
Except when we rag on your Centro kiddie-phone. Then it's SERIOUS.

RE: Treo 800w is fast
AdamaDBrown @ 7/19/2008 11:28:39 PM # Q
Would you like ketchup with those words?

What does either TI or Qualcomm-I'm not certain which chipset drives the LCD, probably TI-integrating D3D Mobile support into their processor line have to do with Palm making changes to the platform? For that matter, what does 3D rendering have to do with general OS speed?

Ryan, my experience has been pretty much just like yours. I haven't tried opening an HTML email that size, but creating a new DOCX file, and your description of IE's performance, both match up. It's not apalling when compared to another device of similar specs, but it's not good. Some of that's IE's weakness, of course, but the Treo isn't helping.

Also, Ryan: have you noticed any oddities about turning the device on after its battery has been drained? Mine frequently refuses to respond even long after it's been plugged into the charger. Also randomly shutting off and acting dead even when connected to external power.

Reply to this comment

Centro

Gekko @ 7/14/2008 11:42:39 PM # Q

awwwwwwwww......look at how cute my lil centro looks next to that pig!

RE: Centro
mikecane @ 7/15/2008 8:52:41 AM # Q
Gekko, will you be getting the special Powerpuff Girls edition of the Centro?

RE: Centro
mikecane @ 7/18/2008 12:47:53 PM # Q
Gekko, I hear that Palm has made a new deal. Buy a Happy Meal and get a free Centro inside!!

Reply to this comment

Palm 800w

Palmdoodlebugger @ 7/16/2008 4:18:34 AM # Q
The only way I will purchase the Treo 800w is in the event Palm provides software to convert OS data to Windows Mobile . Does anybody know how to do this ? Through the Outlook does not work as it will not accept all the data 100% such as remarks and other comments and you will lose a lot of data which I have entered into my Palm Treo 680 over the years, I have currently nore than 38,000 contacts in this Treo but I cannot synchronize this large datbase either with Palm Desktop nor with Outlook as they both time out...after a while What I use very successfully is Backup Buddy from Nomad to keeo a backup of this data on a SD card.... I would love to convert to Treo 800w......this would be great......anyone out there can help me ?? rgds Ben

RE: Palm 800w
joad @ 7/16/2008 12:59:58 PM # Q
This brings up an interesting point. If Palm INSISTS that all their PalmOS users (the ones that only stuck with Palm for the OPERATING SYSTEM and not their pretty orange logo) suck it up and move to WinceMob phones - then why doesn't Palm THEMSELVES create, maintain and support a PalmOS emulator?

Windows Mobile is such a fat, slow, mucky pig that it sickens me every time I've had to use it. Handspring's Treo hardware with Palm's optimizations is so well designed that it makes the best of a bad operating system, but it's still WinceMobile with the usual freezes, 18-button pushes and such under the hood.

If Palm got serious and created a "Styletap" sort of emulator with network access and hotsync conduit support, that might get them by for a couple years or so until they can finally release Palm OS6 and get back on track.

Right now they're treading water, Apple and RIM are making big splashes, and their only innovation for the year seems to be painting the Fisher-Price Centro a different color or two and coming out with this 800w with specs that would have been showstopping back in 2004 or so.

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**Another vote for a >100MB RAM Treo**

RE: Palm 800w
bobatstyletap @ 7/16/2008 4:57:11 PM # Q
Just thought I should try to clear up a misconception.

StyleTap does indeed support TCP/IP and network access. We have a tremendous number of users successfully using numerous numbers of Palm applications which require TCP/IP.

RE: Palm 800w
DarthRepublican @ 7/20/2008 11:44:32 PM # Q

This brings up an interesting point. If Palm INSISTS that all their PalmOS users (the ones that only stuck with Palm for the OPERATING SYSTEM and not their pretty orange logo) suck it up and move to WinceMob phones - then why doesn't Palm THEMSELVES create, maintain and support a PalmOS emulator?

Windows Mobile is such a fat, slow, mucky pig that it sickens me every time I've had to use it. Handspring's Treo hardware with Palm's optimizations is so well designed that it makes the best of a bad operating system, but it's still WinceMobile with the usual freezes, 18-button pushes and such under the hood.

If Palm got serious and created a "Styletap" sort of emulator with network access and hotsync conduit support, that might get them by for a couple years or so until they can finally release Palm OS6 and get back on track.

Right now they're treading water, Apple and RIM are making big splashes, and their only innovation for the year seems to be painting the Fisher-Price Centro a different color or two and coming out with this 800w with specs that would have been showstopping back in 2004 or so.

Why does it also have to be a zero sum game? It seems to me that Palm is insisting that PalmOS users wait for Nova to come out and not that they move to WinMob. At this point I'm more interested to see if Nova will have a decent PalmOS emulator. That's what will make or break Nova for me. This device is more of a curiosity to the extent that it could be a preview of what we'll see if and when Nova comes out.

Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

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