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Comments on: Palm Announces the Treo Pro

Treo ProPalm Inc. today formally introduced the Treo Pro smartphone, its latest Treo running the Windows Mobile operating system. The Treo Pro features a streamlined design in a sleeker glossy black package coming in as the thinnest Treo released to date.

The official announcement matches up with most of the previously leaked information. The Treo Pro will be available from Vodafone and O2 in Europe(from free to EUR 399 with contract) and from Telstra in Australia (from free with contract), also will be available in an unlocked version in the United States, Europe and Asia Pacific. Palm says the unlocked version will be made available in the US this fall from its online store for $549. Additional Treo Pro availability is scheduled to follow worldwide.

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Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...

hkklife @ 8/20/2008 9:21:49 AM # Q
"Everything about Treo Pro - from the hardware design to the packaging and accessories - embodies the elegant and simplified end-to-end experience that our customers expect from Palm."


1. New packaging style from Palm beginning with the Pro. Funny how no one ever touted the old small square cardboard boxes (note that I consider expensive/fancy packaging materials ala Apple to usually be wasteful fluff. I'd rather see ALL available $ put into product R&D, quality control, and post-sale support (firmware updates etc).

2.Elegant & simplified? I guess that years of dealing with broken 2.5mm headset ports and kludgy 2.5mm to 3.5mm stereo headphone adapters was a wonderfully enlightening experience I somehow was unaware of?

3. While I'd rather see Palm leave the lame headphones out of the box, it's obvious they are trying to mimic Apple and include iconic white 'buds in the package.

I'm just SO thrilled (seriously) to see a decent capacity battery AND a 3.5mm jack standard on a Palm device-it's been almost THREE years since we last saw a Palm product (TX) with a "normak" stereo headphone jack. Wow!

4. On a semi-unrelated note: it's staggering to me how many people biotch & moan about their iPod/mp3 player sound quality yet refuse to upgrade past the lame earphones included with their devices.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/20/2008 12:33:16 PM # Q
HTC designed the Treo Pro. It looks like an HTC phone. They do good work with many of their designs. Where do you see a non-HTC influence in the design of the Treo Pro?


RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
stellaboy @ 8/20/2008 9:38:04 PM # Q
If HTC designed this they must have designed the 500 and the centro. Palm design, HTC build.

pilot 5000 >Palm V > m505 >Tungsten T >A bad win mo 5 pda >Clie Peg ux50 > Tungsten t3 >Treo 680 >Centro
RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 4:38:02 AM # Q
I believe ASUS designed the 500 (could be wrong about that). I don't know who designed the Centro but, for some un-easily-verifiable reason, think Palm did.

Palm, BTW in case you don't follow their business side like conference calls and SEC filings, has outright repeatedly said that Windows Mobile devices in particular are designed by ODMs (Original =Design= Manufacturers) from specifications that Palm gives them (that is, Palm comes up with thoughts on what they want (like front-facing QWERTY, touchscreen, etc) and gives those thoughts to the ODM who comes up with the device; there undoubtedly is considerable back-n-forth for decision-making).

There is nothing WRONG with doing that, of course - outsourcing often can be strong money savers for companies - with Windows Mobile, of course, fairly significant savings can result JUST from the labor costs not internal to one's own company.

RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 4:51:59 AM # Q
> I believe ASUS designed the 500 (could be wrong about that)...

Here's verification of the Asus/500V link:

- http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/09/16/palm-treo-500v-hits-fcc-via-asus/

RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 6:11:20 AM # Q
> HTC designed the Treo Pro...

I can't find official verification of this, just articles that note different HTC pieces of software (GPS, memory manager) that come in the Pro as well as articles outright stating it is an HTC phone, so insert "probably" up there - it could be an Inventec or Compal device (no, it's HIGHLY LIKELY an HTC device, IMHO, but absolute correctness of wording is something I strive for...how about you?). everything else posted in this thread remains unambiguously valid and verifiable.


RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/22/2008 10:55:40 AM # Q
This is not an official verification, however it's froma site that sometimes gets things right (and sometimes gets things wrong!):

== "...Taiwan-based High Tech Computer (HTC) has been chosen to manufacture
== Palm's latest Windows Mobile-based smartphone, the Treo Pro, according
== to sources at handset vendors..."

- http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080821PD208.html

Unfortunately, the web page "gets restricted" after a couple days so that's why I copy-n-pasted text from it.

RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 8/23/2008 3:54:26 AM # Q
Palm says the Treo Pro is "inspired and designed in California". Without further clarification of what that means we have to assume then that the design is, at the least, significantly Palm's. If so, this is an about-face from what Colligan said about use of ODMs for Windows phones.

[no, maybe it's not a "Palm" design; it IS a "California" design", though]


RE: Still might be too little, too late but at least it's a start...
SeldomVisitor @ 12/3/2008 5:55:55 AM # Q
As noted, maybe it was just a California design since Palm did not explicitly say "Designed by Palm" like Apple said of the iPhone "Designed by Apple" - HTC just bought the Calfornia firm that designed the Touch Diamond - it is not a strong leap of logic to suggest that firm, or one very similar to it, designed the Treo Pro as well.

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No US Carrier?

johnedfu @ 8/20/2008 9:42:28 AM # Q
Ok, so in the US, NO Carrier is willing to touch this? Not even T-Mobile?

Good luck with that.


RE: No US Carrier?
LiveFaith @ 8/20/2008 10:17:12 PM # Q
Patience Grasshoppa.

Pat Horne
RE: No US Carrier?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 4:39:11 AM # Q
Infinite patience?

RE: No US Carrier?
mikecane @ 8/21/2008 6:02:20 AM # Q
Infinite Garnet!!

RE: No US Carrier?
TooMuch @ 8/21/2008 6:32:16 PM # Q
MC, that was FUNNY

RE: No US Carrier? How many high-end phones does AT&T need?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/29/2008 4:03:48 AM # Q
RE: No US Carrier? How many high-end phones does AT&T need?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/29/2008 10:28:54 AM # Q
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I said 24 hrs yesterday

mikecane @ 8/20/2008 10:16:45 AM # Q
Here:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9650/#144811

Palm, my consluting [sic] bill will be in email. I take PayPal. But I want you to pay me in Euros.

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This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.

JonAcheson @ 8/20/2008 11:40:04 AM # Q
Wifi, big battery, and a normal headphone jack. About time!

I don't like the OS, of course, but at least the hardware end of things is coming around.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
pmjoe @ 8/20/2008 11:48:15 AM # Q
Yep, I agree. It looks nice and good hardware, but I have zero interest in Windows Mobile. Hopefully by the time my iPhone contract ends, Palm will have a nice device with a new OS.

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
palmit @ 8/20/2008 11:51:03 AM # Q
Plus you got to lov the flashing VM lite!

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
hkklife @ 8/20/2008 11:58:50 AM # Q
I think Palm went ahead and splashed out some real time, effort & $$$ for this sucker because it's not destined to just be a "Treo Pro and done" one-off. There will likely be the inevitable CDMA version (Verizon's notable ignorance of the 800w speaks volumes about SOMETHING), a followup GSM version AND a Nova version. That is, of course, if Nova ever makes it to market.


Palm's theoretical lineup going into spring '09 could look like this:


-Current Centro or possibly a Centro 2 running Garnet (CDMA & GSM)
-Treo 500 replacement "Wanda" w/ WM Standard (GSM, maybe still Europe-only)
-Treo 800w (CDMA)
-Treo Pro (GSM)
-Nova version of the Pro (likely CDMA, at least for starters).


That pretty much covers all sides of the market without having too much overlap. I also wouldn't rule out Palm eventually trying to dip a toe into the "world phone" market with a hybrid GSM/CDMA handset to compete with the BB 8830 World Edition.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
BaalthazaaR @ 8/20/2008 3:10:01 PM # Q
It runs Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional Edition on a 400 MHz Qualcomm MSM7201 processor

I guess that means no POS version since this doesn't look like a standard ARM processor and might require some kernel work.
RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
AdamaDBrown @ 8/20/2008 7:14:39 PM # Q
The Qualcomm CPU is indeed a standard ARM processor. However, there still won't be a Garnet version, if for no reason other than the fact that they'd need to rip out the WiFi and 3G in order to make it work.

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
hkklife @ 8/20/2008 7:46:11 PM # Q
Take the current Centro. Give it the slightly larger keyboard, LCD, & battery from the Pro and throw in the 3.5m headphone jack, 2mp camera, and microUSB connector for good measure. CPU-wise, go with whatever is cheapest/easiest to squeeze in under Garnet.

BINGO! You've got your new send-off device for Garnet that's clearly a step any other OS5 smartphones. I'd gladly pay $150-$200 for such a beast since it'd be a nice boost over the current Centro without being encumbered by any of FrankenGarnet's shortcomings.



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
sremick @ 8/20/2008 8:28:56 PM # Q
Yep, I agree. It looks nice and good hardware, but I have zero interest in Windows Mobile. Hopefully by the time my iPhone contract ends, Palm will have a nice device with a new OS.

Agreed. At this rate, my next PDA will be an iPhone since Palm can't get its act together.

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
LiveFaith @ 8/20/2008 10:26:56 PM # Q
Ooh, I know the feeling. If the Apple software list becomes robust, then Palm better deliver or I may be gone too. I'll probably have to turn out the lights too.

Seriously, if Nova crashes and burns, and I have no tangible reason to believe that it are about as reliable as John Edwards on relationship issues. I would love to see Palm deliver, because I'm a fan. But, "even the most loyal spouse hasta go if they keep getting beat up enough". Hopefully my tired torn and tattered 680 can hold on that long.

Pat Horne

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
TooMuch @ 8/21/2008 6:39:35 PM # Q
Tried the iPhone 3G. It is not for power use. For starters, if a person wanted to make a series of four errands in their vehicle, they wouldn't want to have to return home before making each stop. It is wasted effort and time. But that is how the iPhone operates.

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
Gekko @ 8/21/2008 6:53:56 PM # Q

no surprise that you poo-poo it.

but 14+ million iphone buyers disagree with you.


RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
TooMuch @ 8/21/2008 7:41:25 PM # Q
Not bashing the iPhone. It is what it is. I believe it just lacks the efficient productivity of a Treo.

RE: This looks like nice hardware, FWIW.
tompi @ 8/24/2008 4:57:12 PM # Q
"Not bashing the iPhone. It is what it is. I believe it just lacks the efficient productivity of a Treo."

Windows Mobile is not particularly productive, whether it's on Treo hardware or not.

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Happy to be in the uk

stellaboy @ 8/20/2008 11:54:42 AM # Q
Im really excited about getting one of these. If I was in the States id be a bit annoyed about not getting one with contract. How do Americans feel about that?

pilot 5000 >Palm V > m505 >Tungsten T >A bad win mo 5 pda >Clie Peg ux50 > Tungsten t3 >Treo 680 >Centro
RE: Happy to be in the uk
AdamaDBrown @ 8/20/2008 7:15:59 PM # Q
I'm rather surprised, actually. I'd think AT&T would have jumped on this given how antiquated the 750 is. Maybe they're afraid it'll compete too exactly with the Samsung Blackjack III coming out later this year: same feature set basically, albeit with a smaller battery.

RE: Happy to be in the uk
johnedfu @ 8/20/2008 7:49:31 PM # Q
>I'm rather surprised, actually. I'd think AT&T would have jumped on this given how >antiquated the 750 is. Maybe they're afraid it'll compete too exactly with the >Samsung Blackjack III coming out later this year: same feature set basically, albeit >with a smaller battery.

-

Really? AT&T already has a smartphone that blows away this latest "effort" by Palm. It's called the iPhone. You might have heard of it, it's been in a few of the papers.

I mean, come on. How is this Treo Pro really anything more than a warmed up version of the last Winmob machine from Palm? Wow, a whole 256MB of memory. Cool.

RE: Happy to be in the uk
LiveFaith @ 8/20/2008 10:34:29 PM # Q
John,
You might be surprised, but more than a few folks like to open attached spreadsheets, edit them and send them back. And a host of other examples. The enterprise world does not rotate around the latest Hanna Montana soundtrack on iTunes and the latest Youtube vids.

Pat Horne
RE: Happy to be in the uk
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 4:27:50 AM # Q
> ...I'm rather surprised, actually. I'd think AT&T would have
> jumped on this given how antiquated the 750 is. Maybe they're
> afraid it'll compete too exactly with the Samsung Blackjack III
> coming out later this year: same feature set basically, albeit
> with a smaller battery...

I commented on this elsewhere here:

- http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9651/#144875

As the author of that link's link's post notes, maybe the Pro is more expensive for comparable features.

RE: Happy to be in the uk
Gekko @ 8/21/2008 6:55:07 PM # Q

personally, i'm happy to be in the US - with good food, hot chicks, and good teeth.

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Why no Palm os sandbox?

margerum @ 8/20/2008 2:36:53 PM # Q
I dont get it. they bought a perpetual license to the palm os so why dont they build a palm os VM/emulator into their windows mobile phones? We have an enormous palm app that we are slowly porting but could really use something like this.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
tamole @ 8/20/2008 3:04:56 PM # Q
Exactly!! I have a Treo 680 with ATT and would like to have a 3G, GPS, GSM/GPRS Treo. All their new phones are Windows Mobile. Won't buy it. Not now, not never. I need a better phone and am tired of waiting. Unless I hear something definite in the next month or so about a new Palm OS phone for ATT, I go iPhone and look for third-party apps that replicate the Memos feature.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
mikecane @ 8/20/2008 5:59:28 PM # Q
RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
margerum @ 8/20/2008 10:47:19 PM # Q
errr we have 4000 palms deployed. we aint paying $50 a pop for styletap. did you really believe i didnt know about this option?

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
mikecane @ 8/21/2008 5:59:59 AM # Q
You could have mentioned it in passing to avoid looking n00bish.

You know Palm's record: Why do any work if they can lob it off on 3rd-party devs.

BTW, StyleTap doesn't offer reduced bulk discounts? Many devs do.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
margerum @ 8/21/2008 7:45:05 AM # Q
They do not offer bulk discounts. Too bad because it works great.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
mikecane @ 8/21/2008 9:25:00 AM # Q
Eejits. Missing out on many sales without those corp discounts. Plus, it really does have a limited lifespan if the Mythical NOVA ever arrives.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
joad @ 8/21/2008 11:13:09 AM # Q
Yeah, the $50 is basically highway robbery, probably at least twice what the PalmOS license itself costs, but they've got the only game in town so...

Of all the stupid purchases of redundant third-party applications that Palm has done over the years, exactly why didn't also they shell out money to buy the only company with a good EMULATOR of the only thing that is their competitive advantage - the OS?

Sure, it doesn't do network, syncing, or other necessary things yet - but if WinceMob had a decent emulator for PalmOS then it would make a transition worth considering if gun is placed to head. But by Palm *only* releasing WinceMob devices and just assuming that their PalmOS customers will just toss away thousands of dollars in software and hours building up preferences and databases... not for me, thanks.


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.

RE: Why no Palm os sandbox?
StyleTap @ 12/19/2008 3:00:03 PM # Q
@margerum and @mikecane - StyleTap most definitely does offer volume corporate discounts and have existing Palm application vendors who are using StyleTap to significantly expand the number of handheld devices that their software can run on.

In addition to Windows Mobile (and WinCE), their PalmOS apps will also soon run on the millions of Symbian OS devices out there.

Lew S
StyleTap Inc.

Reply to this comment

I have to say I'm reasonably impressed.

AdamaDBrown @ 8/20/2008 7:10:54 PM # Q
Just going sight unseen, mind you, this is one of the best Treos Palm's produced. It's got the feature set of the 800w without that device's major failing, the battery, and the biggest minor failing, the thickness. Plus it's got a more attractive shell and a better processor. If it avoids any significant software hangups, then it could really be a contender.

RE: I have to say I'm reasonably impressed.
LiveFaith @ 8/20/2008 10:37:37 PM # Q
Ya know this is not an overwhelming device. But from the company that has underwhelmed for so many cycles now, this looks tremendous by comparison.

Pat Horne
RE: I have to say I'm reasonably impressed.
SeldomVisitor @ 8/21/2008 4:23:23 AM # Q
But the problem with NOT being an overwhelming device then boils down to how is it compared to others.

According to THIS:

- http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1486662&postcount=3

TreoCentral poster (*)), AT&T (may have) decided Palm's Windows devices weren't exciting enough to even bother with.

=============

(*) Reader Beware! Though this poster has a significantly long history of posts, I haven't followed him/her to come to any "veracity" conclusion

RE: I have to say I'm reasonably impressed.
joad @ 8/21/2008 11:16:19 AM # Q
>>from the company that has underwhelmed for so many cycles now, this looks tremendous by comparison.

It's just amazing they were able to figure out how to put WiFi *inside* a case instead of rebranding a card and selling it for $129.99. They're pretty close to catching up with 2004 now!!


Paying my annual PDA update tax to Palm since 1997.

RE: I have to say I'm reasonably impressed.
AdamaDBrown @ 8/22/2008 8:11:30 AM # Q
No, it's not overwhelming, but compare it to other devices which are actually on the market. The only other ones which provide WiFi, 3G, GPS, and a touch screen in the QWERTYbar format is the Samsung i780, which has only two thirds the battery capacity of the Treo, and the iPaq 910 which is a brick.

Reply to this comment

Audrey II

mikecane @ 8/21/2008 9:26:12 AM # Q
RE: Audrey II
pmjoe @ 8/21/2008 2:28:38 PM # Q
Yeah, really. You could probably do nearly all of this stuff with the original Audrey though (but this looks sleeker), except serious video streaming. Their website is just a bunch of pictures though.


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Yet Another Disappointment

raschan @ 8/21/2008 11:22:11 AM # Q
Nice design. This is one slick looking device. However, when will Palm put as much time, effort, funds into developing their own OS and putting devices out that actually utilize it?

I'm a long time user (Handspring Visor Deluxe, Palm 90, Treo 600, 650 and now 680) but have been holding on for awhile now, always hoping that the next announcement will be THE ONE (Palm OS + GSM).

Like others, I may just jump ship to the iPhone or even see what the new T-Mo Dream will offer.

I wonder if Handspring would have done better had they not been bought out. They appeared to be the visionaries.

RE: Yet Another Disappointment
hkklife @ 8/21/2008 11:48:08 AM # Q
The "new" Palm under Rubinstein's direction looks to be a two-trick Pony, basically.

I forsee tham starting to focus more on hardware/engineering (or at least spend the $ to spec reasonably decent hardware from various ODMs) at the expense of "Palm OS whatever". It looks like they're basically going to try to have one foot in the mass-market, cu-rate price smartphone sector (Centro) and have the other foot in the high-margin, low-volume, "executive toy" premium handset category (Pro).

I personally don't really see Handspring doing much of anything that you can call "visionary", Treo 600 aside. Having USB Hotsync & one-handed lookup capabilities on the Visors was a very moderate evolutionary improvement, not a revolutionary advancement. The Springboard concept was an oversized, undersupported joke from the start and it was pretty obvious early on that the company wasn't committed to it over the long haul. Palm actually can (and should) be congratulated for being an early advocate for SD/MMC and sticking with it through the lean early years of the format.

Handspring was simply too cash-strapped from the get-go to really be much of a pioneer IMO.

You can forget about anything other than maybe a tweaked Centro running Garnet for GSM networks, simply because anything they release will be crippled by being EDGE only.



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p

RE: Yet Another Disappointment
raschan @ 8/21/2008 12:53:05 PM # Q
I guess I just learned something as far as what to expect in the future. Now its time to look for other options, in terms of an alternate device.

I do understand that Handspring never had the finances to bring about earth-shattering changes, but I was just thinking that Palm, at that time, seemed a bit complacent about their product and only until Handspring came along and introduced those one or two small but useful features (with the exception of the Springboard concept, of course) did they start making changes on their own. But hey, I don't claim to be an expert, just a long-time end-user.

Thanks for the helpful info.

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Did you know they 'launched' the Treo Pro in Europe yesterday?

SeldomVisitor @ 9/3/2008 7:40:57 AM # Q
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