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Comments on: Palm Pre Overview and Impressions from CES

Palm Pre ReviewIn the two days following Palm's WebOS and Palm Pre announcement, Ryan and I have spent a great deal of time speaking with Palm representatives, watching demos, and talking at length about the new hardware and software platforms. In this article I take a close look at the Palm Pre hardware and answer many of the questions surrounding Palm's new hotly anticipated smartphone.

Read on for our in-depth Palm Pre impressions review and a ton of high res photos.

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Do want!

freakout @ 1/10/2009 1:59:45 PM # Q
Ack. Making us wait till we can actually buy one of these is just mean!

Great write-up, Kris.

RE: Do want!
hkklife @ 1/10/2009 2:04:39 PM # Q
Thanks, Tim. it's a lot easier to do a hardware impressions write-up after just 2 days of the device and with zero hands-on time than it is to cover the OS & GUI. But I will be doing that next week after I've had some time to digest everything and pore over our collection of video and stills here.



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Do want!
scstraus2 @ 1/10/2009 4:55:57 PM # Q
No kidding, just let me buy the damn thing already!

Palm Pilot 5000->Palm Pilot Professional->Handspring Visor->Handspring Visor Prism->Handspring Visor Neo->Handspring Treo 180->Handspring Treo 270->Palm Treo 600->Tapwave Zodiac 2->Palm Treo 650->Palm Treo 680->...

Samsung i780!

Goodbye Palm

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Questions for Palm

mikecane @ 1/10/2009 2:07:45 PM # Q
If you get to see them in time:

1) What's the holdup on Flash? Didn't they learn from the Foleo "No YouTube" debacle?

2) Do they have dev partners who will be announcing software pre-launch, as with Foleo?

3) Clipboard size limit?

4) Notepad limit?! Is there a true Memos app and can it do the 64K memos?

5) I can haz external Bluetooth keyboard? In fact, is there a Universal External Keyboard Driver already BUILT-IN to the OS?

6) Do they REALLY expect us to believe we can have powerhouse apps built on HTML, CSS, and JavaScript? Like databases, word processors, photo retouch programs, and the like? I STILL smell a rat here and think a true SDK is a year or so away.

That's all I have for now, I think.

Nice pics and observations. Incredible that it's small than a Centro!

Centro next to my still-in-use crap-phone:
http://mikecane.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dl2007066.jpg

RE: Questions for Palm
hkklife @ 1/10/2009 2:19:01 PM # Q
1. They said flash was "still being discussed" and would give NO additional details other than "it's still really early, keep an eye on our website, the device has tons of functionality out of the box

2. Yes. There was a sizable list of partners (MOSTLY content ala mobiTV, not actual developers, though Dataviz was prominently shown on stage). They said they are working hard with a number of their traditional partners to port their titles to WebOS.

3. See my earlier comments today (just look for all of my posts from today, Mike, as I posted quitie a bit of additional info re: memory limits etc). I'm in a bit of a time crunch here.

4. See above

5. They said it was "full" BT but the rep had no idea about an external keyboard. Remember it will need some kind of driver, either custom-written or some kind of generic BT HID support. BT DUN tethering is confirmed and fully present AND was said to be OK'd be Sprint

6. it appears Palm has given up on "powerhouse" apps. They said "most of the apps you'll need" can be done in tyhe web tool development. For "heavy duty games" the guy said they would "have to see what else they could do for developers to access the hardware directly". They said that games etc were not a priority, obviously.

I don't smell a rat, personally. I just see...a retreat to a particularly focused niche of the market where EVERYTHING is lightweight and fluffy (storage capacity, the cloud storage metaphor, the packaging aesthetics, the devicve dimensions, the apps you'll run on these devices).



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Questions for Palm
mikecane @ 1/10/2009 2:30:35 PM # Q
>>>EVERYTHING is lightweight and fluffy

Oh great. "The New Palm Pre: Less Functionality, But More FUN!!!!"

Yecch.

I'll catch up on your other Comments later. Already swept through here once today to catch up since yesterday!

Reply to this comment

not a smartphone?

tompi @ 1/10/2009 2:29:11 PM # Q
"6. it appears Palm has given up on "powerhouse" apps."

Maybe we should think of the Pre as simply not being a smartphone. However, even for a dumb phone, people demand games and media these days.

I think the iPhone is actually a pretty lousy phone, but what makes up for that is all the games you can get for it. Not having a good game platform (or at least Flash and/or J2ME) is a serious omission.

RE: not a smartphone?
justauser @ 1/10/2009 3:49:09 PM # Q
I have an iPhone in front of me now. Let me look at its top 25 "powerhouse" apps... (1) iShape (2) Crazy Tanks (3) Monopoly (4) Crash Bandicoot (5) iFart (6) Fish Tycoon (7) iPingpong.... what the!?!? Better check the Free App list... (1) iShoot (2) iHandy (3) Rick Rocketson...

I can only see one vaguely productive app on either list (a weather app). If you're after a phone for playing games then by all means dip into your savings and grab that iPhone. It's not like we're in a global recession or anything.

RE: not a smartphone?
kencva @ 1/10/2009 4:55:33 PM # Q
Most of the most useful iphone apps cost more than a few dollars and thus one would not expect the to be in the top 25 apps purchased by all users.
RE: not a smartphone?
Nycran @ 1/10/2009 5:02:16 PM # Q
Ars has an article from an anonymous developer that has been using Mojo on the new WebOS.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090109-the-pres-got-mojo-a-developer-speaks-about-palms-new-sdk.html

If this article is accurate, HTML/CSS/Javascript is in fact used for all development, with javascript tying into the phones hardware services via a JSON messaging bus.

RE: not a smartphone?
hotpaw4 @ 1/11/2009 2:54:59 PM # Q
A major problem with the iPhone App store is that serious power apps can rarely ever make it into, or even near, the top 100 list. That doesn't mean they don't exist though.

And as for supporting the earliest class of original PalmPilot "power" apps, the webOS Javascript interpreter may well be as fast or faster than the PalmOS5 68k emulator, so there is the possibility of functional rewrites with similar performance.

.

RE: not a smartphone?
justauser @ 1/11/2009 6:12:45 PM # Q
Soooo... iPhone's got powerapps (and potential for more powerapps) but few are using them. Yes, I've heard that one. Fits the profile of iPhone users I've met.

Does it even read native MS Office docs yet (without conversion)? I think that was what Mike was referring to when he mentioned "powerhouse apps" in the previous post.

RE: not a smartphone?
tompi @ 1/11/2009 9:08:47 PM # Q
"Soooo... iPhone's got powerapps (and potential for more powerapps) but few are using them. Yes, I've heard that one. Fits the profile of iPhone users I've met."

Lots of people are using power apps on iPhone: games, real-time image processing, music synthesis, PDF viewers, etc.

"Does it even read native MS Office docs yet (without conversion)? I think that was what Mike was referring to when he mentioned "powerhouse apps" in the previous post."

Yes, there are apps that do exactly that.

RE: not a smartphone?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 3:16:52 AM # Q
Tompi, you should have taken that reply a little bit further and noted that the apps on the iPhone App store are "number of units sold" ranked so something that costs 99 cents per unit, like "iFart", can easily exceed number of units sold compared to something like (made up name, sorry if it exists) iQuicken selling for $99.

Perhaps that store needs multiple rankings based on multiple of $10 or something like: $1-n-under, $5-n-under, $10-n-under, $20-n-under, $30-n-under, etc...

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Handcase steps up for Pre

mikecane @ 1/10/2009 2:32:14 PM # Q
Smartphone developers lining up to support Palm Web OS
http://jkontherun.com/2009/01/09/smartphone-developers-lining-up-to-support-palm-web-os/

If you too said, "Who???", join the club!

RE: Handcase steps up for Pre
dagwud @ 1/10/2009 2:46:08 PM # Q
How many members in this club we're in? :)

Whether or not I stick with Palm is going to depend on whether or not Dataviz ports Smartlist To Go to webOS. If I've got to buy a different program from a separate provider, rather than a discount upgrade, then I'm going to consider other devices, too.

While I like the device, I'm a little disappointed that Palm is basically saying "None of your old software will work, and we can't tell you if a replacement will be available."

-
PalmPilot Pro (1997) -> III (1998) -> Vx (1999) -> m500 (2001) -> m515 (2002) -> Tx (2007)

RE: Handcase steps up for Pre
robitaille88 @ 1/10/2009 3:25:09 PM # Q
The Dataviz logo was the image of Palm's partners:
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20090108/_MG_3262_small_610x410.jpg

I can only assume that means DocToGo, etc. are on the way

RE: Handcase steps up for Pre
freakout @ 1/10/2009 3:44:52 PM # Q
I've contacted DataViz seeking a bit more detail on what they're working for webOS, hope to receive some more info soon.
Reply to this comment

nice job guys

Gekko @ 1/10/2009 4:09:37 PM # Q

really great coverage. very complete and informative.

RE: nice job guys
scstraus2 @ 1/10/2009 4:58:45 PM # Q
I second that. It's so nice to have a reason to come back to Palm Infocenter. I'm really happy that you guys have stuck it out through the hard years to still be here when we need you.

Palm Pilot 5000->Palm Pilot Professional->Handspring Visor->Handspring Visor Prism->Handspring Visor Neo->Handspring Treo 180->Handspring Treo 270->Palm Treo 600->Tapwave Zodiac 2->Palm Treo 650->Palm Treo 680->...

Samsung i780!

Goodbye Palm

Reply to this comment

Storage

verao @ 1/10/2009 5:06:33 PM # Q
I'm very excited with the Pre. It's the phone I've been waiting for. I have to agree though that the 8GB and the lack of an expantion slot is a little disappointing, specially when I already have so much stored on my micro SD card.

RE: Storage
SeldomVisitor @ 1/10/2009 5:23:44 PM # Q
> I'm very excited with the Pre. It's the phone I've been waiting for...

Wonderful!

Say...how did you like how the phone part of the Pre worked!?

RE: Storage
freakout @ 1/11/2009 2:48:10 AM # Q
^^ Did you not notice the large, high-res photograph of the on-call screen in the article that you're commenting on, SV?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/palm-pre-hw-imp-3.jpg

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Lots of doubt out there

mikecane @ 1/10/2009 5:54:34 PM # Q
There's lots of doubt out there from devs that anything substantial can be created using only HTML/CSS/Java.

And looking at the Pre itself, wouldn't most of you agree that Palm isn't targeting businesses with this? This is for consumers, period, and only the WinMob devices are for the suits? Which makes Exchange server support an odd thing, doesn't it?

I need to see devs announcing what they plan to release for this.

RE: Lots of doubt out there
hotpaw4 @ 1/11/2009 2:43:24 PM # Q
typo? There's a massive difference between Java and JavaScript.

.

RE: Lots of doubt out there
Eternal_Visitor @ 1/11/2009 4:37:55 PM # Q
I've seen lots of "useful" stuff appear as web apps lately, and palm NEVER said this was a consumer device. they said PROSUMER, so some business stuff thrown in is far from unusual here.

that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? well, that's the way you see things.
RE: Lots of doubt out there
SeldomVisitor @ 1/11/2009 4:53:34 PM # Q
> ...palm NEVER said this was a consumer device...

== "...And the new OS, yes, I would say initially absolutely targeted
== towards more consumer-oriented applications, more pro-sumer
== oriented applications..."


RE: Lots of doubt out there
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 4:53:53 PM # Q
>>>typo? There's a massive difference between Java and JavaScript.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all on the same damned page of the 3 Palm kept citing: JS.

Not let's get this sorted one way or the other, eh?

I hope some third-parties start announcing what's coming!

RE: Lots of doubt out there
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 4:54:39 PM # Q
*Not let's = NOW let's.

Damn, why do I keep making reverse typos like that?

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Why would I *downgrade* from my TX?

jezor @ 1/10/2009 6:24:24 PM # Q
I'm *really* disappointed with the lack of external storage capabilities on the Pre. I already have a very affordable 16GB SDHC card in my TX (courtesy of the brilliant Dmitry Grinberg's PowerSDHC driver) and would actually be giving up storage if I go to the Pre. I'm also concerned about this idea that all apps can be written in Web languages. What a waste of hardware if real software cannot be added on! Again, why would I downgrade from all the productivity apps (in multiple languages) that I can already run on my TX, which handles the online stuff (other than Web browsing) well enough already.

C'mon, Palm, we get that you've beaten the iPhone on the hardware side. How about something for your own loyal customers who are outgrowing their TXs and LifeDrives and Treos? {ProfJonathan}

RE: Why would I *downgrade* from my TX?
bhartman34 @ 1/10/2009 9:21:30 PM # Q
I share your skepticism about Palm's focus on JavaScript/CSS/HTML as a development platform. But it's worth noting that DataViz is on board with the Pre. I think that means that "real" apps are coming for it.

I don't think the capacity issue is quite as forgivable. It's remarkable to me that in 2009, Palm would release a phone that didn't have at least micro-SD expansion capability. For a device that's supposed to handle audio and video with aplomb, it just seems weird to have such a limit. On the other hand, I think that for a lot of people, 8GB will be plenty. If the capacity is mostly used for music and video, it's on par with dedicated low-end media players (e.g., the 8GB Nano, etc.)

I also think that Palm is trying to make the Pre more of an information manager than a media manager. They put a lot of effort into figuring out how to pull together information from various sources and put it on your phone. They seem to be aware that the Pre had to be capable in the multimedia space, but to me this looks more like a PDA on steroids than a multimedia machine.

Hopefully we'll start seeing decent apps being announced for the Pre, as well as larger capacities, if this iteration looks successful.

RE: Why would I *downgrade* from my TX?
sremick @ 1/12/2009 1:08:00 PM # Q
Outgrown their TX? I outgrew my T3 and I'm STILL awaiting a decent device that can at LEAST do everything the T3 can, but more.

Still waiting...

Reply to this comment

Palm Pre: Why I'm on the Fence

Gekko @ 1/10/2009 6:27:08 PM # Q
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Sync Office Documents?

Gekko @ 1/10/2009 7:08:15 PM # Q

i wonder how i "sync" these?

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Somethings I need to know...

WilSylvince @ 1/10/2009 8:00:42 PM # Q
Can someone answer my questions please:

1. How do you sync with Palm Pre?

2. If so can you add or remove files from your computer and it will sync with your hand held Palm Pre?

3. It seems (from the brief reading I did so far) it's NOT backwards compatible. If not, is there a way to transfer your main data to the Palm Pre?
Just in case I lose my phone?



RE: Somethings I need to know...
freakout @ 1/10/2009 9:10:46 PM # Q
(1) With regards to media - i.e. music, movies, photos etc - Pre appears as a generic USB mass storage device, so should sync fine with Winamp, WMP, iTunes (with the appropriate add-on software) or any other application that supports USB mass storage. Or you can just drag-and-drop files.

This doesn't answer the question of how wireless sync would work though, something I've been wondering about myself. And PIM data, like contacts etc? We know it syncs over-the-air with online PIM services and integrates them all - which is actually pretty damn cool - but nothing about the desktop side of things. Which is a little worrying.

(2) ?

(3) Palm OS applications definitely won't be compatible, it seems. But I'll wager Palm give us some way to export all our old PIM data. They've still got a few months to come up with something...

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A whole lotta repetitive motions

SeldomVisitor @ 1/11/2009 9:17:37 AM # Q
Every video I've watched so far has the demonstrator trying a finger movement, it not working right, and doing it again. Sometimes multiple times.

I think they need to refine this a bit more or that "Zen of Palm" reputation is going right out the door.

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 9:44:20 AM # Q
Hey, it's all demo hardware and software, cut them some slack. You'd have a point if it was *on sale* like that, but it's not. And don't forget people can get nervous during demos.

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:04:50 PM # Q
OR, given Palm's history, it's a hint at what's really coming. How many third-party apps were running on the demo(s)?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:15:15 PM # Q
Zero 3rd party apps were on the devices I saw, at least as far as I was able to discern. I mean absolutely nothing was on the devices other than the very generic 1st party Palm apps "phone, contacts, calendar, memos, tasks, calculator, photos, music, maps" etc.

So I suppose that the "maps" app could be Google Maps or it could be a TeleNav app. Rubinstein (I believe) did say that the device would ship with 3rd party navigation software standard to utilize its GPS capabilities.

Also, later in the presentation, I believe Colligan also commented on a Pandora employee telling him it took their guy only 3 days to port their media player client over to the Pre. Note: I didn't see a Pandora app/applet running on the Pre.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:21:41 PM # Q

i think palm purposely kept the message simple and direct at this intro point as to not muddy down the message to the masses. talking about/demoing a bunch of different non-core apps could muddy the message. remember, they only have a small window to quickly get their message out. if they blow the launch, they blow the company. actually, for having a history of being the "keystone kops" i think they did a great job of not only creating the phone, but also executing the launch.



RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:32:08 PM # Q
Agreed. I will readily admit to being absolutely, totally, and utterly floored and stunned that Palm had THIS much to show. I mean, they had a sleek, handset nearly ready for primetime + an OS and apps that are very far down the line.

Now, the general economic misery may combine with business goofs (Sprint exclusive, no Verizon, delayed GSM version, overpriced), software issues (no direct developer access to the hardware, no onscreen keyboard, no video capture, no desktop synchronization capability), and hardware missteps (pitiful battery, no memory card slot, no hardware buttons) to still derail Palm. But you have to give them credit for really producing with the odds stacked against them and being on the edge of oblivion.

I honestly to see is for Palm to go ahead and start to EOL everything in the current lineup and start cranking out WebOS devices of varying formfactors:

-One slightly larger than the Pre one with a big battery, microSDHC slot and a bigger screen

-A smaller/cheaper one in the existing Centro FF

-Maybe even a landscape-oriented one with a wider slide-out keyboard ala the Xperia X1.

I wouldn't want try to shoehorn the WebOS into a square screened Treo Pro-style device, as the OS seems VERY portrait-optimized but maybe they could do a BB Bold-sized device.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:38:03 PM # Q

no video capture???

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:47:35 PM # Q
Yup. I've posted my list of missing/removed features before but I'll redo it again here for ya quickly:


1. No more stylus

2. No more IR port

3. No more hard app buttons

4. No more side-mounted shortcut button (under the volume buttons)

5. No reset button (but this has been missing since the 680)

6. Battery capacity is only 1150-1200mAh. I was hoping for the 1500mAh from the Pro

7. No video capture capability in the camera app (confirmed by Palm rep)

8. No more microSDHC slot

9. No more hard app buttons

10. No more desktop synchronization

11. No voice dialing via BT OR native to the device (per the Palm rep). She said that feature MIGHT be available later via add-on software but that it was not a standard feature. Maybe the rep was wrong or maybe Palm is still working on it for inclusion. But I asked twice just to be certain.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:51:51 PM # Q
>10. No more desktop synchronization

are you 100% absolutely sure about this? WTF do i use for PIM desktop? i despise Outlook Web Access, Yahoo Mail, and GMail for PIM. i like Palm Desktop. what will you use?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 7:03:25 PM # Q
*I* am not sure of anything but I know that nothing was said at ANY point during Thursday's presentation about desktop sync. It was "in the cloud, all the time".

None of the Palm reps (I watched at least 4 separate reps giving demos + spoke to 2 others) mentioned anything about any kind of Hotsync. Some of the other people in the group asked about Hotsync and the response was "You don't have to do that kind of stuff anymore".

I posed a question of someone who is a semi-luddite buying the Pre. I told the rep to make the presumption that this person has a POP or Exchange email account but nothing on the web. No Hotmail, no gmail, No Google calendar, nothing. I asked specifically if Palm would "provide a walk-thru for someone to import their old Palm OS PIM data and transfer it to a cloud solution (regardless of provider)". I was assured that that was going to be the case and it'd be a simple, easy tutorial/importing process but they could not disclose how this will be done.

I asked if there would be an offline mode or legacy Hotsync mode and he smiled and said "why would you want to do that? Wireless is so much easier and more convenient"



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 7:08:45 PM # Q
In regards to your question on what I'll use....I'm not switching to Sprint, first of all. If Pre hits Verizon in a timely fasion (unlikely) then I'll just try to live in the cloud. I'll of course keep Palm Desktop installed on one of my secondary computers and keep it synchronized with my trusty old TX. I agree that Palm Desktop is old and crude but it's still the fastest. I'll definitely miss it.

After all these years I can zoom it in my sleep.

There have been times when I've had a broken Treo/Palm PDA or left it at work or in the car or something. Being able to fire up Palm Desktop on my PC and pull up contact info is extremely handy.

Also, I reguarly use NVBackup to back up my Treo to SD card, in addition to regular Hotsyncs. The Pre might have too many compromises---8gb is too much to do a FULL device backup OTA wirelessly, no microSDHC slot on it for backups, and no fail-safe desktop sync component.

I have a feeling someone will come up a little app or a little thumbdrive-type device to let you dump the contents of your Pre onto a USB flashdrive.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 7:11:37 PM # Q

again, i think they want to stay on message to get the "cloud" message out as a differentiators and a selling point to the masses. if they start talking about hotsync they muddy the message. i feel it's possible that desktop sync to outlook (at minimum) will be available. LOTS of people have a local outlook on their PC. to assume everyone is going to be on or jump on the cloud in 2009 is ridiculous and fatal. the cloud is far from read for prime time IMO. it will be, just not yet. i thought i saw a sync button on the USB cable but someone told me that was for "decorative purposes only". i find that hard to believe given the entire new "minimalist" design and philosophy of the Pre.

i want to EASE INTO the cloud like an old man going into a warm bath. i don't want to be thrown into the deep end when i don't know how to swim yet!

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 7:14:51 PM # Q
Gekko, that "button" is the chrome circle (purely decorative) found on the Treo Pro's MicroUSB sync cable. Palm will presumably ship the same cable with the Pre as well as the Pro to save $ amd keep things simple.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?
RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 8:38:15 PM # Q
The text at the top reads:
This box includes:

* Palm Pre Phone
* Battery
* AC Charger
* microUSB Sync Cable
* Stereo Headset
* Recycling Sticker
* Terms and Conditions

------------------


why would they list a "Sync" cable if there was no sync? i wouldn't think they'd use the word "sync" just for USB thumb drive capability. sync button is not necessary regardless - sync could be initiated many different ways.

i think i read that Chapura was a launch partner. another good sign!

i remain an optimist on this issue!

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
mwrob @ 1/12/2009 11:11:10 AM # Q
I noticed the multiple attempts to swipe also. Also, not all that much was done one handed. Mostly holding the phone in one hand and gesturing with the other. Will you be able to do most everything with your thumb while holding the phone in your hand? Accessing the core PIM functions while easy, is still not as simple as pressing the corresponding hard button on the front of your phone.

Mike
RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 11:20:41 AM # Q
Again: Cut them some slack on pre-release hardware and software.

I once witnessed a woman in her twenties churn out long txts on her iPhone - ONE THUMBED, holding the iPhone in ONE hand, with SPEED.

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
sremick @ 1/12/2009 1:14:32 PM # Q
"Wireless is so much easier and more convenient"

Except when you don't have signal, then its useless.

Right now I can sync emails from IMAP using SnapperMail, work on them offline, queue up replies, then do another send/receive later when I have service again. Fast, powerful, versatile. And that's on a T3 (which I can tether to my cell via Bluetooth).


RE:DID anybody SAY iphone KILLER
palmuser65 @ 1/12/2009 4:07:30 PM # Q
this palm is hot actually 2hot i mean ive had my centro since it came out havn 2 see people wave thier fukn iphone like it was gonna be the 1 and only 2 see and kno this palm is as good if not betta then tht i cant wait 2 get it

RE: A whole lotta repetitive motions
SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 4:15:24 PM # Q
Great!!!

Hey! How did you like the Pre's phone?

Reply to this comment

No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!

bussie1966 @ 1/11/2009 11:09:40 AM # Q
" A Palm representative told me that (I am paraphrasing his words here) "8GB is plenty of storage for anyone, especially since SDHC cards are really expensive and just now hitting 8GB capacities".

Huh?

In what world is this person living?

If Palm doesn't make a Pre later with SD-Card support they are really ......

8GB is plengty storage....
Right... dream on!
I have MP3's, videos and so on on my SD-Card now in my Tree 680 and 8 Gig is almost full.

SDHC cards expensive...
Here in The Netherlands such a card cost about 15 euro (low speed) and high speed about 30 euros.
That isn't much money.
I'm curious what the Pre is gonna cost....

8GB is just now hitting..
Huh? You can buy these cards already a long time and 16 GB is also already normal in the shops.

Palm is making a BIG mistake if they don't built in SD-Card support.

Someday i must buy another devicea and if there is no SD-Card support in the Pre, Palm will lose a long time customer.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 11:42:51 AM # Q
"640K of RAM is enough for anybody." - billg

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 12:11:11 PM # Q
RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 12:25:30 PM # Q
Yeah, BS. I was in tech when he said it. Ever since, he's been sending his goons around to do a 1984-ish erasure of the fact. FAIL!

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 12:48:09 PM # Q

the leeched toxins from too many microwave pizzas has addled your brain and impaired your memory.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
hotpaw4 @ 1/11/2009 2:39:34 PM # Q
Want to hazzard a guess as to what percentage of total Centro customers actually purchased an SD card for it and used it? Palm probably has this market research, and saw that the actual numbers were within a rounding error of zero.

.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
SeldomVisitor @ 1/11/2009 3:33:52 PM # Q
Yeah, but they also probably have marketing research data on how many customers buy a second battery, yet they're still touting "removable batteries" as something special.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
medevilenemy @ 1/11/2009 3:56:47 PM # Q
The pre seems mainly designed as a direct competitor for the iPhone, and in that respect it makes a lot more sense. The iPhone does not have external media, so while external media would be nice it is not necessary. the iPhone does not have a user-replaceable battery, the pre does. all in all the pre seems easily superior to the iphone

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
SeldomVisitor @ 1/11/2009 4:22:22 PM # Q
> ...the iPhone does not have a user-replaceable battery, the
> pre does. all in all the pre seems easily superior to the iphone

You might want to listen to Walt Mossberg's comments on "removable batteries".

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Eternal_Visitor @ 1/11/2009 4:56:25 PM # Q
if I may chime in here, all the media I have on my MP3 player takes up...one sec...just south of 4gb, and that's my entire music collection, a few videos, and a fair slice of my pictures (the good old Treo 650 handles pictures cause the ZEN doesn't support PNG). my video collection is FAR to large for any existing PVP (both total file size and (for newer stuff) resolution). that having been said, I'd be very happy with 8GB storage.

that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? well, that's the way you see things.
RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:02:44 PM # Q
>>>the leeched toxins from too many microwave pizzas has addled your brain and impaired your memory.

Oh, look who just outed himself as spying on me on Twitter. What fake name are you using there?

I'd rather have removable storage too, but it's not exactly a deal-killer. Odd that Palm would follow Apple down that path. Internal storage will continue to plummet in price as the iPhone and iPods eat it up.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 5:21:55 PM # Q

spying? come on. with all of your blog links you post here? i don't do or "get" twitter but of course i've seen a few of your inane ramblings.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:26:46 PM # Q
Oh no no no. I've only mentioned microwave pizza EVER in TWITTER.

You are busted! So how long have you been on the dole, money-boy?

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 5:38:24 PM # Q

your link here led me to doom blog led me to a twitter post, eejit. the powers that be could have silenced you long ago had they wanted to.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:47:16 PM # Q
That doesn't fly. So now you're in your hovel, the Lexus gasless, pissing away the day in your underwear watching me on Twitter.

Hahahaha.

How the mighty have fallen!

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:11:01 PM # Q
Hate to interrupt your pizza conversation, but as for removable flash I sure don't understand why Palm would go back to the dark ages of 1997 again.

Sure, the Iphone didn't have it, but that's because Apple hates ANYTHING they didn't design and can control. Just like SONY. But Palm has usually been pretty good at keeping things that work (once they finally get around to including them). No removable flash means no portable backups, no swaps in from a camera to email, no way to prevent the Sprint reps from restoring your data after toasting your device when they "test" it, no way to get data backed up if the TCP/IP stack or radio dies, etc. Backupman has saved my butt so many times by providing a simple and quick way of selectively restoring data in many situations, Palm is taking that function AWAY and calls it an improvement?!?

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:17:53 PM # Q

you don't need SD. everything is on the CLOUD!!!

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
twrock @ 1/12/2009 3:38:30 AM # Q
But Palm has usually been pretty good at keeping things that work (once they finally get around to including them).

Hmm, let's see. My TX didn't have a vibrating alarm, a charging LED, or a microphone. I kinda thought those things worked really well in my previous Palms. ;-)


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)
RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
lobotomic @ 1/12/2009 5:15:47 AM # Q
I'm pretty damn sure they have omitted the SD slot to avoid polluting the GUI with file management. There must surely be an elegant way to deal with apps and media files that come and go at any moment without permission from the OS, but this is obviously not done yet. With no memory cards, it is a problem no more.

I bet memory cards will come with time, as will closer-to-the-metal language options. But now they have to sell what is available now, which is pretty nice, BTW, and not talk about anything else to avoid the Osborne Syndrome at all costs.

I think 8G is not bad at all, anyway, and that for most people, by the time it is too little, their Pré will be scuffed and scratched and there will be shinier things begging for their money.

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
BaalthazaaR @ 1/12/2009 10:48:58 AM # Q
>> you don't need SD. everything is on the CLOUD!!!

Trust the CLOUD and it will rain on your parade. (since we're talking about quotes, I'd like to get one in for posterity) :-D

RE: No SD Card support in Pre.. a big mistake!
AdamaDBrown @ 1/12/2009 11:32:10 AM # Q
They didn't omit SD to avoid file management. There are lots of extremely elegant file management solutions. They did it for the same reason that Apple left out memory expansion: so that next year they can sell a 16 GB model, and a 32 GB model the year after that.

Reply to this comment

Just my opinion.......

Piero @ 1/11/2009 12:04:40 PM # Q
I've got a TX.... as an M.D. it has a lot of useful apps for me.... irreplaceable. So, if palm doesn't include some type of garnet emulator or whatever into it's newer products, then i really don't have any reason to change my phone.... maybe buy one that in the future will have linux and garnetvm from whatever company that will be... i hear nokia has a tablet (no phone yet) that does this.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 12:09:56 PM # Q
RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 12:33:01 PM # Q
Yes........ i know, but as i said i have some programs that are irreplaceable, they don't make them anymore. For example, a collection of books with radiologic images that i can't get as pdf books or any other format that's not palm. And i use these, day by day.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 12:37:09 PM # Q
And i'm not in the mood to start looking again for tons of books that i already own in a format different than what i'm used too. That's a waste of time which most probably will not yield 100% results......... besides, there's no dataviz yet for the palm pre, and i can make whole presentations with my palm.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 12:38:01 PM # Q
Thanks anyway man, i appreciate your help.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 12:51:08 PM # Q

well you better start working on a Plan B because your legacy platform of choice is slowly turning to dust.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 1:54:16 PM # Q
Nope....... although it may be turning to dust it fits in my coat, i will use it as i have and buy some new cool phone. There's no need to fix what hasn't been broken.

RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 1:55:14 PM # Q
Although if i found a phone with those capabilities.......... you know

RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 1:57:03 PM # Q
Rather carry my palm than a dozen books, just as fast and even more efficiently.

RE: Just my opinion.......
hotpaw4 @ 1/11/2009 2:31:44 PM # Q
One guess is that you will eventually have to move your irreplaceable content to run under StyleTap on some other hardware vendor's platform. Might as well test that path now.


RE: Just my opinion.......
Piero @ 1/11/2009 3:22:38 PM # Q
Yep... if i can i will, always better to carry only one gadget.. just that now, i don't think i'll be so preferable to palm products. Since they are not including garnet compatibility. I'll wait and see what comes out to compete with the pre or wait a year or so for debugging.... no rush.

RE: Just my opinion.......
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:12:48 PM # Q
I sense a lot of Palm's target market will be seriously considering an HTC device running WinceMob and StyleTap instead of the Pre.

RE: Just my opinion.......
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:21:32 PM # Q
I will most likely switch to a Pre if the following happens:

1. It comes to Verizon within the next 6-8 months. I refuse to jump ship to Sprint for any reason.

2. Is reasonably priced ($250 or below w/ contract)

3. Has a ROCK SOLID, ULTRA-RELIABLE tool for importing every shred of Palm PIM data I have on my Treo

4. Functions better than my crummy Treos as an actual phone (fringe area signal strength, voice quality, speaker volume, mic quality, reception etc)

Despite my heavy reservations about the pitiful battery capacity and the glaring lack of a microSDHC card slot, I do like the formfactor (large screen + slide-out keyboard) and I love the curvature of the body (the best aspect of the HTC G1 IMO)

Since I've been maintaining for ages that Palm was not going to include Garnet support, I've been long prepared to dump all of my existing apps. At this point I really don't care much about backwards compatibility. My PIM data is the only stuff that is irreplacable! Besides, I'll always have my backup TXs for anything Garnet-related if need be.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

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A BIG question Palm could answer:

Tuckermaclain @ 1/11/2009 3:18:45 PM # Q
Will StyleTap run on it or possibly a better emulator?

With this one device Palm is asking us to dump everything that was Palm before 8 January 2009.

I have a load of "antique" apps that make my job alot easier that are made for such a small audience that they will likely never be written in WebOS. The total cost retail would be about $500-1000 to replace my favorites in Palm OS.

How about a bone for those who use Palm and have accumulated stuff? I put up with the 505 release debacle, hot sync issues from Hell, digitizer drift, random hard resets and I still use the Palm. I have at least 10 lying around now.

A little help?

RE: A BIG question Palm could answer:
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:19:34 PM # Q
Yes, Palm gives us as "little help" as possible.

If Palm is really thinking that the people who rely on many of the (10,000? 20,000?) applications written for PalmOS over the past 13 years or so will suddenly just "live without" the ability to use these apps and go for the Pre(tty) device because it looks neat and has nice specs, that's a bold move.

Apple dumped the Newton, but most developers were already porting them over to the PalmPilot by then. Now that there's 13 years of stuff written for the PalmOS, Palm expects to immediately make them obsolescent unless we opt for a lousy Centro? Their absence of adequately addressing this elephant in the room speaks volumes about their customer support. Keep churning the suckers, I guess.

RE: A BIG question Palm could answer:
pontif @ 1/12/2009 7:30:23 AM # Q
I can't possibly imagine a working version of StyleTap in JavaScript with OS calls via JSON, not to mention trying to use some of my old apps without a stylus. The truth is the paradigm has changed, and Palm is just now on board with it, but is it too late?

For the record, I'm a long time Palm fan was a palm software developer. I develop software for a living, including web applications as well as more code to the hardware type development.

As a user, if I'm going to have to buy a new device and all new applications, why would I go with a company lingering on the brink of oblivion like palm with a new unproven device (and little 3rd party support) instead of an popular device like the iPhone that already has a huge library of 3rd party apps. (Not to mention having captured the public attention.)

As a developer, if I target iPhone I have an existing large proven market. If I target the new palm, I have no more market than, for example, the Android/G1, and far less than Blackberry or iPhone. Not to mention the very idea of trying to develop anything serious in JavaScript with a JSON call interface to the OS.

While I've not seen their SDK, I can only hope that the "real" SDK is coming later, and the javascript thing is just a "lightweight" development SDK. Javascript is hardly the kind of high performance, low overhead language one would hope for on a mobile device, nor is it a particularly robust or RAD development environment. I'm sure some will take issue with that last statement, but I promise it is based on real experience across many languages and environments.

RE: A BIG question Palm could answer:
Piero @ 1/12/2009 9:53:22 AM # Q
I would go with my old apps because i have some that are crucial to my work and they are not making them anymore in any other language than garnet. Besides i have my tx pretty tweaked so if they just included an emu in the pre i would surely buy it since i wouldn't need anything more but the web, nice user interface and horsepower in it. I'm not about to start looking for new software, that's a waste of time.

Reply to this comment

all this hoopla

Eternal_Visitor @ 1/11/2009 5:05:38 PM # Q
with all this talk of backwards compatibility, it seems odd that not more than a week before this announcement, a lot of the discussion over the next PalmOS (I know, old term) was for something new, and that's precisely what came out. need I remind everyone that a strong attachment to backwards compatibility is what dam near killed the PalmOS!?! I have 2 active PalmOS devices here, running. a Treo650 (what, about '04?) and a pilot personal (1997) and on most of the built-in apps, there is, on average, very minor cosmetic differences.

I personally think palm did the right thing by not worrying about backwards compatibility when designing the new WebOS. there's always time to add it on later, and not worrying about it before the platform establishes itself means they can make the new OS run properly first. they need a success BADLY and it looks like they've got one here.

that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? well, that's the way you see things.

RE: all this hoopla
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:11:21 PM # Q
Some people have expensive investments - and daily productive requirements - to software. They should start bombarding their devs with emails to find out if PwOS versions will be coming. And if not, WHY not.

You know, I have a frikkin app I'd like to see ported too. Let me go do the email thing right now.

RE: all this hoopla
Eternal_Visitor @ 1/11/2009 6:23:28 PM # Q
guess I left out the part where quite a few of these people were also looking to get a device with a different OS and axe their "investment" in software anyway.

oh, I have a few apps I would be hard pressed to live without too, but none of it is exclusive functionality.

that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? well, that's the way you see things.

RE: all this hoopla
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:23:39 PM # Q
Jeez, I applaud their move toward a new OS, BUT - most people were thinking it'd be a no-brainer that an emulator would be part of the package. It's sickening to note that even the crummy WinceMob has Grafitti ONE as well as the ability to run most Palm apps by installing StyleTap.

They want to lean on the name and reputation of "Palm," and yet bring out a device that has no ability to run the vast majority of "Palm" applications? That's just weird and lazy.

RE: all this hoopla
Eternal_Visitor @ 1/11/2009 6:38:24 PM # Q
I wonder how many WinMob devices ship with a PalmOS emulator......hhmmmm...OH RIGHT, NONE! never have and never will. this device isn't even out yet, of course we're not going to have that kind of 3rd party stuff out yet.

the "zen of palm" is in the ease of use and integration of the built-in apps, what palm themselves has control over.

besides, given that palm bought a perpetual license AND rights to modify garnet source, there's a strong chance that they'll have an emulator/VM either included with, or available for, this thing on or soon after release.

that's how I see things. you think I'm wrong? well, that's the way you see things.

RE: all this hoopla
freakout @ 1/12/2009 3:26:34 AM # Q
One commenter over at Ars Technica notes that it should actually be quite simple for any Palm OS developers who want to to port their stuff over to webOS, to do so:

Old garnet apps: they're better off dead. Devs knew they were dead when Palm started selling WinMobile. With the .PDB access in javascript that palm's provided, those developers can port their apps to the new system in a *very* short time frame. The old APIs were decent, but are still far more complex than just drawing the thing up in dreamweaver & shoving your logic in javascript.

Then again, one other longtime Palm OS dev tells me he finds the HTML/CSS/Javascript approach "not particularly appealing" since they have an extensive body of C code from previous development for Palm OS and WinMob. But he's optimistic that a native SDK will eventually be offered, especially given all the work Palm had already done developing Foleo's native Linux SDK.

I'm still trying to round up developer opinions on webOS and will publish them in an article here soonish. One common thread though is that it's more appealing than iPhone development because of Apple's artificial restrictions. Make of that what you will...

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro

Reply to this comment

The Question NO ONE has asked

mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:27:40 PM # Q
Dammit, will we FINALLY be able to assign OUR OWN SOUNDS to alarms in Calendar?!!!?

RE: The Question NO ONE has asked
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:23:59 PM # Q
You ask the world!

RE: The Question NO ONE has asked
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:25:41 PM # Q

what? piezo chirp and birdie isn't good enough???

Reply to this comment

Does Bill Gates work for Palm now?

jimmytop @ 1/11/2009 5:43:53 PM # Q
"8GB is plenty of storage for anyone"
Wasn't it Microsoft that once thought 640k was enough for anyone?
Anybody who puts a number on the amount of memory that is "enough for anyone" is an absolute moron and is completely out of touch, and not in firm grasp of the history of computers and computer software. 8gb enough for anyone - what a dummy.
RE: Does Bill Gates work for Palm now?
mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:48:58 PM # Q
Cited that earlier.

They SHOULD have said, "Well, we think 8GB is a reasonable beginning, given our market research. We will, of course, have more storage in subsequent models."

RE: Does Bill Gates work for Palm now?
joad @ 1/11/2009 6:24:37 PM # Q
THAT's a given. But what's up with the missing removable flash slot?

Reply to this comment

Link to VoR's last gasp?

mikecane @ 1/11/2009 5:52:37 PM # Q
Where's that last rant he posted, under Yet Another Fake Name?

It'd be interesting to see it now that Nova has flared.

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:09:10 PM # Q
Amusing anecdote:

About halfway during Palm's presentation the other day, I believe when Matias was demonstrating the contact app's integration, there was a listing for some guy and his email address was "voice of reason" and it had an alternate address listed as "arrested@gmail" or some such.

Probably just a huge coincidence...but pretty amusing nonetheless. Ryan and I got a good chuckle out of it and you can even hear us snickering in my video when that contact entry popped up. Of course it could've been a Palm employee with an axe to grind against some former colleague/coworker/industry insider...


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:23:58 PM # Q

yeah - someone posted the screenshot of that contact here. that's a hell of a coincidence.

did you get to meet or get close to Colligan or Ruby? any hookers solicit you in Vegas?

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:38:08 PM # Q
Got within 3 feet of Ed C. and Ruby both. They both put in an appearance late at the Palm VIP lounge. Got a few blurry pics of Ed C, he seemed really relaxed and in a good mood. Didn't attempt to speak or shake hands, as I'm not one to force my presence upon someone and the Palm crew likely wouldn't have liked that one bit.

No hookers, sorry, but we did check out the V Bar per your recommendation. Oh, and we saw David Hasselhoff (the real one!) last night when he put on an impromptu mini concert at the Hofbrauhaus. I patted the Hoff on the shoulder and told him "great job" and "have a good evening" in German.

That's the extent of the CES festivities. Oh and I got absolutely robbed with an $18 Gelato at the Venetian shopping mall.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
Gekko @ 1/11/2009 6:42:07 PM # Q

glad you got to check out V Bar. good spot. you should have asked the Hoff if he wants a hamburger!

damn $18 for a Gelato? that is expensive - even for Vegas!

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
hkklife @ 1/11/2009 6:51:42 PM # Q
Best damn gelato I've ever tasted. But that was still highway robbery. It's been 5 years since I was last in Vegas and I've noticed food/beverage prices have gone up a LOT. We had some excellent Vietnamese food somewhere...I believe it was at the Mirage.

Palm was also serving up some very tasty grub in their lounge. TreoCentral has pics of it. They had it all done up in a very dim, cozy, zen-style organic stone & linen motif. It was sort of vaguely Asian + middle eastern. Very nice, much like their new website design and the Pro/Pre packaging.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Link to VoR's last gasp?
Tuckermaclain @ 1/12/2009 10:08:45 AM # Q
So who is going to track this down and finally tell us who TVoR is? Inquiring minds want to know. Is it Skippy the mental health tech? I would die seeing a photo posted of some out of work software exec in a dirty suit, unshaven, sleeping on a parkbench with an empty bottle of Mad Dog lying on the ground next to him with a broken old Samsung OS4 phone on the ground next to it and that Clie 755(was that it?) with a cracked screen sticking out of his pocket. Sorry for the run-on but the image needed all those words.

Anyway, TVoR, if you are out there I would love to hear your take on the whole thing. I had Palm 6 feet under and looked to 2009 as the year they closed shop and sold their name. Now I have guarded optimism. Beers and Ardiri must have an opinion as well.

The Pre certainly has been a shot in the arm to PIC. I don't see buying one until I can use my old stuff on it ala styletap.

Reply to this comment

Hardware appears spectacular: I want one with Android

lobotomic @ 1/12/2009 2:25:10 AM # Q
webOS is cool (ridiculous name, though), but its limitations are not, and I don't think it will go far in mindshare.

RE: Hardware appears spectacular: I want one with Android
lobotomic @ 1/12/2009 3:51:52 AM # Q
I know it is bad taste to self-reply, but I feel sorry for having said that, and I'd like to be more precise. webOS looks very, very cool. It has been developed in record time for such an impressive piece of software, and I want to believe it will evolve fast.

I hope they are secretly porting something like Android's Java(ish) VM to their OS; it would be pretty easy, it would be legal, and it would remove practically all the constraints that are present in the current version.

As for the mindshare, well, it this is a Palm-only product, and I think it will have a hard time competing with the virtuous circle that an open-source ecosystem such as Android's brings.

Google, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony Ericsson, ARM, nVidia, TI, Intel, Telefónica, Vodafone, China Mobile... Cartloads of companies are hiring programmers whose improvements to the code will pile up. There are cellphone manufacturers which will provide competition and variety in hardware; chip manufacturers that will ensure their hardware is optimized for Android; huge operators to push the solution around; and open specs and easy-going commercial attitude will make it easy for third party software.

I don't believe Palm by itself can achieve this - nor Apple, or Microsoft, really. Hell, even Nokia is turning Symbian into an open software project to be able to hold the landslide!

RE: Hardware appears spectacular: I want one with Android
SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 5:23:12 AM # Q
> I know it is bad taste to self-reply, but I feel sorry for
> having said that, and I'd like to be more precise...

Though I haven't been given access to the beta yet, for one brief page refresh over the weekend I noticed that each comment had a "MOD" icon" up there near the Subject, suggesting editting capabilities are coming soon!

RE: Hardware appears spectacular: I want one with Android
SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 5:24:24 AM # Q
> ...There are cellphone manufacturers which will provide competition
> and variety in hardware...

They're HEEEEEeeeeere!

See the thread immediately following this one.

Reply to this comment

Ain't Telstra in Australia?

SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 3:59:59 AM # Q
== "...Executives from Telstra who had met with Palm at the CES Show in
== Las Vegas to review their new Pre offering said that the new phone
== from HTC was "better and more functional" they said..."

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Phones/Industry/S4W3S8V5

Telstra are Australia's stupidest, most arrogant company...
freakout @ 1/12/2009 4:20:02 AM # Q
...and Smarthouse is one of the worst websites. (They were busted big-time by the ABC's excellent Media Watch program for plagiarising other tech sites awhile back: http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2178689.htm )

Telstra, meanwhile, recently had seven billion dollars wiped off their stock value because their (imported from America) CEO & board of directors were so supremely arrogant about their prospects for building our Government's new proposed fibre-to-the-node broadband network that they submitted a non-compliant tender that was more a list of ransom demands and thinly veiled threats to sue if their current fixed-line monopoly wasn't given a legislated, iron-clad guarantee of survival.

For that, they were kicked out of the process completely and now face the gloomy prospect of structural seperation of the company.

Oh, and they poo-poohed the iPhone at first... now they promote it big-time.

In short:

1) Smarthouse's reporting is worthless
2) Telstra's too goddamn stupid to find their arse with both hands, let alone pass judgement on what phones the people will actually want.

RE: Ain't Telstra in Australia?
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 10:28:53 AM # Q
Ah! Telstra. Here they be, immortalized by me:

Another Jackass Quote For All History — No, TWO Of Them!
http://mikecane.wordpress.com/2007/02/15/another-jackass-quote-for-all-history-no-two-of-them/

Reply to this comment

How strange...the honeymoon is ending

SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 4:48:51 AM # Q
RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
freakout @ 1/12/2009 4:56:08 AM # Q
Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. What laughable nonsense, from Apple shills desperate to poke holes in the fact their cult's baby was just left behind in the dust by a device from a company they'd written off for dead.

"the Honeymoon is ending?" As if any company other than Apple will ever have a honeymoon with RoughlyDrafted!

RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
SeldomVisitor @ 1/12/2009 5:10:34 AM # Q
In another thread you said you were rounding up developer comments on web apps.

I think that article you just Fanboy-dismissed did an EXCELLENT job discussing not only web apps but more.

Looks like that article you're going to write will be the epitome of unbiased journalism...a-GAIN!

RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
hkklife @ 1/12/2009 10:02:35 AM # Q
The first thing that ran through my mind (I couldn't liveblog it because I could not remember the name of that damn app for the live of me!) was Saguaro:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9373/saguaro-sneak-peak-review/

But Saguaro's "lightweight" apps were the first thought I had when I saw the Pre demonstration at the keynote the other day (well, other than the ovvious iPhone & Android influence)



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
Gekko @ 1/12/2009 10:11:07 AM # Q

when i first saw the Palm Pre WebOS "cards", i thought of this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0



RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 10:31:33 AM # Q
RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
AdamaDBrown @ 1/12/2009 11:21:14 AM # Q
No doubt RoughlyDrafted has a strong pro-Apple bias, but they do make a couple good points, specifically with regard to app development and one important question: what does the "Pre" or webOS do better? Coming out with competitive hardware isn't enough-Palm's got to offer a reason why people should want the Pre instead of an iPhone. So far I'm not really seeing the motivation, particularly when the iPhone has a very large ecosystem built up of accessories and a certain number of apps, while the Pre is starting from scratch.

RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
freakout @ 1/12/2009 12:08:21 PM # Q
^^ By that logic, Adama, no one's ever going to compete with the iPhone, which is already firmly entrenched. There's many reasons people might want a Pre instead, not least of which is the real keyboard.

But there's also the fact that the mobile market is so huge that there's plenty of room for both Apple and Palm to have big success here. As Steve noted when first launching the iPhone - even capturing 1% of that market is a *big* thing.

RE: How strange...the honeymoon is ending
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 12:15:30 PM # Q
>>>There's many reasons people might want a Pre instead, not least of which is the real keyboard.

Heh. Until Apple announces in March the iPhone+, with keyboard, available in June.

I made that up. I know of no such beast. But it seems to me if there was an iPhone coming with keyboard *and* cut&paste, there'd be far fewer people here lining up for the Pre.

Reply to this comment

WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'

cervezas @ 1/12/2009 10:08:08 AM # Q
I've been seeing a number of folks saying that applications on the Pre are all "web apps," which is misleading for several reasons.

First of all, a web application runs in a browser, which is a piece of software that's optimized first and foremost for making requests to a server on the Internet and rendering the responses as a web page. Browsers have gradually been twisted and tortured into displaying media, using cookies as local databases, and (most infamously, IE) integrating with other apps on the machine, but to operate reliably and safely on the Internet they're necessarily somewhat crippled in using features of the system or hardware. Just because webOS apps can be written with HTML and JavaScript doesn't mean they run in a browser or have the limitations of a web browser.

Secondly, people should understand that HTML 5 goes *well* beyond what we normally think of as HTML. It includes APIs for immediate-mode 2D drawing, video playback, offline databases, drag-and-drop, etc. It's very cutting edge. Palm is certainly the first company to release a mobile product based on HTML 5, and even modern desktop browsers only implement parts of the spec, often through optionally installed plugins like Google Gears.

As for JavaScript, it's a general programming language that is separate from the HTML document object model that it's most commonly used to script. Palm has already stated that they have extended that model to enable access to local databases on the phone and handling of notifications, and there's no reason they couldn't expose much of the system API that way if they chose to. You're not going to be able to write hardware drivers in JavaScript but not many Garnet OS developers do that either.

Next, while JavaScript and HTML are usually interpreted within a browser, there's nothing that says that has to be the case. Palm knows all about compiling HTML applications into native code: they developed tools and APIs for doing this on the Palm VII back in 1999 and presumably own patents on it. They called these "web clipping" applications, and they displayed in the launcher and ran as first-class native applications on Palm devices, not as interpreted scripts in an HTML browser.

(I predicted two years ago that Palm was working on resurrecting this concept, by the way: http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=165. They've clearly gone way beyond anything I anticipated, but then web technology has also come a long way since I wrote it.)

Last thing to point out is that we don't have an SDK yet. Until we do we have no idea if JavaScript is the *only* API or if there are other ways to access the full power of the system. All we know is that the developer's who have partnered with Palm so far on this have said they were able to do anything with webOS that they would have done with Visual Studio (meaning "native C/C++ APIs"). I don't think they meant by that that they were limited to writing "crapware," whatever that is.

Obviously, webOS is *also* intended for delivering a cutting edge web app experience, but that has to do with the browser they developed. Also obvious should be that applications originally written for the web using JS/HTML/CSS (like GMail, BaseCamp, Facebook, etc.) should be easy to port to webOS *and* be enhanced to run in offline mode, due to webOS's HTML 5 support for offline databases.

Hope this clears up some of the misconceptions (which are somewhat understandable given the name of the OS and buzzwords being bandied around to describe the technology).


David Beers
Senior Wireless Developer
MapQuest
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 10:47:59 AM # Q
Are there any apps that YOU'VE done that COULDN'T be done for webOS?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
cervezas @ 1/12/2009 11:14:35 AM # Q
Are there any apps that YOU'VE done that COULDN'T be done for webOS?

Probably not based on what I know of HTML 5 and JavaScript, but I have no idea until I've seen the SDK and know what system functions is exposes to developers. No one does who isn't under an NDA.


David Beers
Senior Wireless Developer
MapQuest
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 11:18:30 AM # Q
Tell me why this isn't the truth:

>>>there is really just one app running: the widget engine and you're navigating around widgets with lower overhead than a series of individual apps would have. If this is the case, and Palm has achieved both multitasking AND efficient performance
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/12/palm-pre-the-emperors-new-phone/#comment-16506

Widgets? Palm webOS is Saguaro writ larger?!

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
palmato @ 1/12/2009 11:21:15 AM # Q
Boygenius report
http://tinyurl.com/829vou
http://tinyurl.com/89cjcc


-------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 11:34:36 AM # Q
I left my widgets Comment there too, seeing as how that person apparently has what passes for the current SDK.

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
palmato @ 1/12/2009 11:39:13 AM # Q
Looking at the log of the SDK server, it appears the system calls are implemented as invocation of web services using a "luna" protocol (most likely a custom protocol -http alike- which supports json messages ).
Example:
Request
luna://com.palm.systemservice/getPreferences [json object]
response:
[json object]
(oops: I chose the example that returns an error.... but the concept is quite clear)

At this point I truly think WebOs app run inside webkit and use services from a local server inside the device to get to the system api. Most likely the pages of the application are delivered by this same server.


-------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 11:44:31 AM # Q
So what is the bottom line here?

1) Smoke and mirrors: It's all fluffy widgets
2) Palm is ahead of the wave and this is a new paradigm
3) This is a bookmark for a real SDK later

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
cervezas @ 1/12/2009 12:17:30 PM # Q
Where you getting this, palmato?

It did occur to me that they're running an application server on the device. If that's the case then there may *very* well be another API beyond the JavaScript "front-end." That luna protocol could be anything at all.

If webOS had been my project I would have built the application framework on top of something called OSGi, which is, among other things, an application server. It is light weight, has remote management capabilities, hot deploys, and provides a sweeeeet component model that makes Android's IPC-based model look primitive. Think "awesome mash-up possibilities." Oh, and OSGi runs in a Java runtime, so if they're using it there probably *is* another API and it's probably Java. In other words, maybe you can write the equivalent of a Java servlet (a "luna-let"?), and deploy it as an OSGi bundle. That kind of might have to be digitally signed if they let 3rd parties do this at all.

I've been waiting with baited breath for OSGi-based handsets to come out for a few years now. Sprint's one of the company's that's getting into it big with their just-released Titan platform and I understand they'll be making OSGi a requirement for all devices that run on their WiMax network. And Sprint is first to bring the Pre to market... hmmm. Well, would be nice, but... c'mon... they couldn't have made *all* my dreams come true, could they?


David Beers
Senior Wireless Developer
MapQuest
www.pikesoft.com/blog

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
Ryan @ 1/12/2009 12:19:05 PM # Q
RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 12:26:09 PM # Q
This does iPhone and Android web apps.

I figure then not much more tweaking to make it Palm webOS compliant too.

It reminds me a lot of FileMaker on the Mac (with Helix diagramming thrown in), except web-enabled.
http://www.widgetpress.com/modelbaker

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
hkklife @ 1/12/2009 12:31:18 PM # Q
All of the above.

1. Right now it's all smoke & mirrors tenously held together by some fastastic concepts & UI execution, IMO. Aside from the huge leap forward in hardware between a Garnet device & the Pre, you will be able to have more of "powerhouse app" in 2009 under Garnet than you can on the Pre

2. Palm IS ahead of the curve here in many aspects, but do they have the motivation/$/engineering capacity to sustain this effort? Or did they crank this one out in a superhuman effort so Palm's value can be pumped & dumped by EP?

3. POSSIBLY, but I don't think we'll see the SDK in the timely fashion everyone's hoping and the prevaling attitude around Palm will be "light and fluffy" stuff, in every sense of the cloud analogy. I do think that between now and whenever the SDK ships, Palm's gonna selective pick a few partners to work out a few specialized "middleweight" apps/ports.

As Ed C said in his opening remarks, Palm is about "pockets, not processors".


P.S. Let us not forget that for a brief period in time, Palm WAS in pretty good shape on a hardware/software integration level. If we revisit the 2002-2003 era, Palm/PalmOne/PalmSource was in pretty good shape. You had ARM-based handhelds like the Tungsten C (400mhz CPU, 64mb RAM, a sizable 320x320 LCD and wi-fi still is a decent of specs today and was phenomenal 6 years ago!) and the T3 (Again, great performance and a great screen made for a device way ahead of its time and hampered by its feeble battery).

Palm had a pretty good synergy going back when in the handheld line between OS & hardware but they dropped the ball badly with the PalmSource spinoff. Palm never again had hardware approaching "cutting edge" after the T3. They had a 2nd chance with the Treo but its glacial pace of progress meant that the competition quickly caught up to 'em and Garnet quickly began shows its cracks with each subsequent model.


P.P.S.

Here's ANOTHER juicy but totally unsubstantiated tidbit at CES:

An individual seemingly in the know told Ryan and me that 5 years or so ago, early in their collaborative efforts, SonyEricsson had developed a Palm OS-based CliePhone "just like the iPhone" in the works. Big touchscreen etc. He said it was shaping up to be a really cool device and way ahead of its time. I would assume it woukd've looked like the TH55 or one of the later 320x480 Clies. He said it was a great device but due to "Palm going out of business" (I assume he was referring to PalmSource's collapse) they could not get any assistance from "Palm" and had to kill the project before was finished. I have NO Idea if it was running OS5 or Cobalt (I would assume OS5 but who knows).

I asked if any of the lessons Sony learned from the big Clie experiment helped pave the way for their successful PSP or cool future SE efforts like the Walkman/Cybershot phones or the Xperia. He laughed and said that "No, the Clie line didn't produce anything useful at all" but seemed to be fairly optimism about Palm's chances now.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 12:55:56 PM # Q
Qualcomm also had a prototype *satellite* phone using PalmOS. These things happen all the time.

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 1:17:20 PM # Q
Yet another program-by-form for iPhone web apps app:
http://servoy.com/generic.jsp?mt=396&taxonomy_id=846&dl=iphone

I wonder how many of these the Pre will spawn?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
hkklife @ 1/12/2009 1:33:59 PM # Q
A PalmOS SATELLITE phone???? WHOA! Do tell! When was that!?! 1998/99, I'd assume.

I never heard of that one. Was it ever demonstrated or seen in the wild?

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
mikecane @ 1/12/2009 3:48:02 PM # Q
A friend of a friend was beta-testing it for Qualcomm. I never got to see it because the guy was in Calif and also travelling a lot. This was ages ago, pre OS5 even, I think. Back when Qualcomm still made, you know, phones!

RE: WebOS apps aren't 'web apps'
hkklife @ 1/13/2009 8:44:41 AM # Q
Would've had to have been pre-OS5, as Qualcomm spun off their handset business to Kyocera sometime in 2001 or 2002, IIRC. Qualcomm made some very solid handsets back in those days. I had two of their CDMA handsets and they were absolutely rock solid.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

Reply to this comment

The Quote of Death!

mikecane @ 1/12/2009 11:14:48 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over weeks?

SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2009 8:38:00 AM # Q
Nuff said.

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over week
mikecane @ 1/13/2009 9:29:43 AM # Q
I don't think so. He seems to be alluded to in another article (see my Pre Links post), trying to slink away with a Pre only to be surrounded by Palm staff to prevent its removal.

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over weeks?
Gekko @ 1/13/2009 10:09:05 AM # Q

i think what SV is saying is that something must be up if Palm purposely didn't give Big Moss a Pre to play with pre launch as most companies do.

which brings up a good question - where are all of the real hands on reviews and why are they delayed from normal?

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over week
mikecane @ 1/13/2009 10:28:22 AM # Q
Duuuuh! Because the damned thing ISN'T FINISHED YET!

I don't understand why everybody thinks this is so suspicious!

The iPhone was introduced in January, didn't go on sale til JUNE.

This is like that.

You think Palm wants to start Palm 3.0 with Palm 2.0 ways?!! Rubinstein won't stand for it!

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over weeks?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2009 10:45:04 AM # Q
> ...Duuuuh! Because the damned thing ISN'T FINISHED YET!
>
> I don't understand why everybody thinks this is so suspicious!...

== "...we'll be pressing this advantage in a big way with the
== release of Palm's next generation devices on our new Palm
== platform. This platform development is firmly on track to be
== completed by the end of this year, with next-gen handsets to
== follow in the first half of calendar '09..."

"Completed" means...completed.

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over week
mikecane @ 1/13/2009 11:20:24 AM # Q
It was complete enough to demo.

Now they tweak, optimize, and maybe add more goodies (hello, Flash?).

WTF do you think they won't talk battery life?

Same thing as with the iPhone intro.

Geez.

RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over week
palmato @ 1/13/2009 11:33:05 AM # Q
Pogue got it, for a while at least: he had one on cnbc.
Video: http://tinyurl.com/75dfkc

-------------
Hey Admin: Why do we have to keep two profiles?
RE: Was Walt Mossberg given a Pre to independently test over weeks?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2009 11:53:31 AM # Q
Yes, I commented on that here or elsewhere - I forget. I =do= remember, however, that he said the Pre came with the Touchstone (or Touchstone back).

So much for hands-on, huh?

Reply to this comment

Release Date Rumors?

Gekko @ 1/13/2009 10:46:16 AM # Q

i've read -

1. end of Jan
2. Feb 18

i've asked Sprint and they are either mum or dumb or both.

what have you people seen and heard out there???

RE: Release Date Rumors?
Gekko @ 1/13/2009 10:47:40 AM # Q

p.s. retail sales girl told me that sprint.com will get it well before the retail stores will. not sure if this is true.

RE: Release Date Rumors?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2009 10:51:47 AM # Q
End of January was the Treo Pro rumor.

Here's another rumor to replace that one.

Elevation Partners gave Palm another $100 million because Sprint cancelled the Treo Pro order for end of January due to the Pre.


RE: Release Date Rumors?
Gekko @ 1/13/2009 11:00:27 AM # Q

but if the release is that soon - why no demo models yet in the hands of Big Moss et al???

RE: Release Date Rumors?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/13/2009 11:18:43 AM # Q
I didn't say the Pre release was that soon, I said the latest rumor poop is that Treo Pro ISN'T late January from Sprint.

RE: Release Date Rumors?
mikecane @ 1/13/2009 11:21:57 AM # Q
I don't see Pre showing up until late March. Especially if they intend to fine-tune that lip around the keyboard, as someone said they might.

RE: Release Date Rumors?
Ryan @ 1/13/2009 11:27:10 AM # Q
Honestly, given they are still working on much of the webOS and Mojo SDK, I don't expect the Pre out until mid-May at the very earliest.
RE: Release Date Rumors?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 8:50:27 AM # Q
They're still trying to hire a number of people to develop the SDK.

RE: Release Date Rumors?
Gekko @ 1/14/2009 9:00:58 AM # Q

SDK can come later. SDK shouldn't hold up the initial device. every day palm waits is another day that they lose a customer to iphone, BB, G1, etc. time is of the essence. the future is NOW!

Reply to this comment

Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?

SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 8:08:07 AM # Q
This is Yet Another iPhone App:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_EIY3-_HOY

Cool, huh?

Is that doable in WebOS?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
hkklife @ 1/14/2009 8:53:10 AM # Q
No, reorientation was shown far more than motion sensing.

You may recall my comments from a few days ago where the Palm rep was in the photo app and "handed" the Pre (holding it by the keyboard area to Ryan and me. The accelerometer automatically sensed being inverted and rotated the screen so we saw the iamge in the proper orientation. Then the screen speedily righted itself when the rep brought the Pre back to himself. That was highly impressive and far less laggy than, say, the hideous BB Storm.



Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 9:02:02 AM # Q
That was my question - was motion sensing on the Pre demonstrated in any other way than to reorient the screen from landscape to portrait mode (or inverted portrait if one cares about that distinction)?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
Gekko @ 1/14/2009 9:04:04 AM # Q

The 3.1-inch HVGA touchscreen, which offers 320x480 resolution and 24-bit color, is only slightly smaller than the G1's 3.2-inch display. Like the G1 and most other high-end smartphones, it is equipped with accelerometers, so it can be flipped, with the display adapting accordingly. Yet the sensor-crazy Pre goes two steps beyond, adding both a proximity sensor, that is said to disable the display whenever a user places the phone up to an ear, as well as a light sensor that dims the display when he ambient light is dark. Both features are said to reduce power usage.

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 9:05:19 AM # Q
I thought the iPhone detected your face, too?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 9:08:43 AM # Q
RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
Gekko @ 1/14/2009 9:12:58 AM # Q
RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 9:19:17 AM # Q
Yeah, well, I may have warned about paying too much attention to what a Me-Too Media outlet says without independent verification, huh?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 9:20:19 AM # Q
BTW - ya notice it took me about three minutes to check if the iPhone had that ability, too?

Great journalism on that Linux site's part, eh?

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
Gekko @ 1/14/2009 9:25:17 AM # Q

ok - you're officially banned from using the following three phrases on PIC for the rest of 2009 -

1. Me-Too Media
2. Giggle
3. Gack


RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
Ryan @ 1/14/2009 10:49:44 AM # Q
A Palm developer told me that programmers would be able to use the accelerometer however they wanted. So any of the tilt games, shacking and such is certainly possible in the future.
RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
SeldomVisitor @ 1/14/2009 10:58:26 AM # Q
Nah, I didn't mean COULD be demoed, I meant WAS demoed.

RE: Was motion sensing demonstrated for more than reorientation?
hkklife @ 1/14/2009 11:40:40 AM # Q
SV, do you mean like a demo game showing a marble/ball rolling in different directions by tilting the Pre? No, nothing like that. I saw no evidence of the Pre recognizing minor shake/wiggle movements, nor would I see any practical reason for it aside from maybe something being incorporated to "flick" unwanted cards offscreen.

Again, just so that we are clear: what was demonstrated Thurs & Fri last week at the Palm keynote and in their private room was portrait/landscape/back to portrait flipping & rotation as well as the inverse screen flipping as I mentioned before.

Nothing like a the iPhone "steam" demo was shown nor was anything like "shake the Pre to randomly shuffle your MP3 playlist" in appearance.

FWIW, the accelerometer seemed VERY responsive and snappy. Easily on par with the iPhone and far surpassing the Storm. I did ask if all of the bundled PIM apps supported landscape mode and I got a "yes"in response. When I then asked if that meant optimized for lanscape viewing (aka a "widescreen memo pad") I did not receive a response. The media player and the web browser were the only apps I saw demo'd in fullscreen landscape mode, aside from the launcher and the multitasking "cards".

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

Reply to this comment

Don't Count Out HotSync and Palm Desktop Just Yet

Gekko @ 1/14/2009 10:25:10 AM # Q

January 14, 2009 4:00 AM PST

We ask Palm: Where's HotSync and Palm Desktop to go with Pre?
Posted by Matt Hickey

While Palm has likely done a notably good job with the new Pre smartphone of reversing its slide into obscurity, the company has said little about the other half of its historical strategy, that of desktop syncing.

With the original Pilot 1000, Palm made handheld devices viable by including a technology it called HotSync with every device. HotSync allowed for one-touch synchronization of personal information data-like phone numbers, to-do lists, and even e-mails-between the organizer and your desktop or laptop software. That allowed you to carry your most up-to-date appointments and contacts around before there were ubiquitous wireless networks.

It also featured the Palm Desktop, custom software that gave users a centralized interface to manage this content. Palm did a reasonable job keeping it updated, but it's looking old by 2009 standards.

The Pre, though, uses Palm's system called "Synergy" to pull multiple address books, to-do lists, and e-mail and calendar sources over the air via the Internet into a single interface in real time. This makes both HotSync and the Palm Desktop redundant.

But don't count the desktop element out yet. I called Palm, which responded that it's not commenting yet on the software end, but there might be more news closer to launch time.

Sounds to us like there might be some desktop or laptop client software involved, but is it HotSync, Palm Desktop, or some other application to work with Synergy? Our guess is the latter, but we can't be sure yet.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10142272-1.html?tag=mncol

Reply to this comment
RE: Sync Poll
Gekko @ 1/15/2009 4:45:34 PM # Q

BTW - Ryan - didn't you threaten to give PIC a software upgrade a few years ago? maybe to something like vBulletin or better? what ever happened to that? it's like we're still running Garnet here!

RE: Sync Poll
Ryan @ 1/15/2009 4:49:25 PM # Q
G - it's something very much in the works. The site will be getting one first, then the forums. You should email me and I'll get you in on the beta squad.
RE: Sync Poll
mikecane @ 1/15/2009 5:01:03 PM # Q
Is this Ed's "fat middle" then?

07.69% - Web Based Cloud (GMail, Yahoo Mail, Hotmail, etc.)
15.38% - Exchange Server (Personal)
15.38% - Work Server (Work)
======
38.45%

RE: Sync Poll
mikecane @ 1/15/2009 5:02:30 PM # Q
I should also say: Add up all those who *never* sync. Really, do you think most Centro owners do?

Reply to this comment

On the Pre is 'multitasking' 'multiprocessing'?

SeldomVisitor @ 1/29/2009 11:16:05 AM # Q
The Subject is the question.

If you don't know the difference, sit on your hands and see the answers from those who do.

[this question brought to you courtesy of reading elsewhere (true or not) that everything on the Pre is running inside a browser and running with that thought...]

RE: On the Pre is 'multitasking' 'multiprocessing'?
mikecane @ 1/29/2009 12:16:34 PM # Q
/ignore

RE: On the Pre is 'multitasking' 'multiprocessing'?
freakout @ 1/29/2009 1:36:42 PM # Q
'Multiprocessing' is the use of two or more hardware processors to run progams, whereas 'multitasking' is a general term used to describe methods by which a single processor doles out resources to multiple progams.

Since we know the Pre has only one CPU, your question is as pointless as the rest of your posts. (The answer is no.)

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What is the OS underlying the Pre-as-shown-at-CES and...

SeldomVisitor @ 1/29/2009 1:37:33 PM # Q
...how do you know that?

No, not WebOS.

How do you know it was Linux?

No, not "PLANNED"..."AS SHOWN".

Link please.

RE: What is the OS underlying the Pre-as-shown-at-CES and...
freakout @ 1/29/2009 1:54:40 PM # Q
We know it's Linux because Pandora told us so.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/

PIC: Palm didn't really mention it, but - the webOS definitely has a Linux framework underneath it, doesn't it?

TC: It does have a Linux framework underneath it...

Or you can go with PCMag:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338583,00.asp

14.) Is webOS Linux based?
Yes, but developers won't get access to the Linux core.

What's the point of your question? (If there is one?)

RE: What is the OS underlying the Pre-as-shown-at-CES and...
SeldomVisitor @ 1/29/2009 1:58:30 PM # Q
Thanks - I'd tend to trust the Pandora words much more than the PC words.

I wonder what "Linux framework" means?

=====

W.r.t. "Why ask questions?" - because I'm trying to get a better idea of what's on the PRE for real RIGHT NOW, not what the gushing is all about.

RE: What is the OS underlying the Pre-as-shown-at-CES and...
twrock @ 1/29/2009 5:49:31 PM # Q
W.r.t. "Why ask questions?" - because I'm trying to get a better idea of what's on the PRE for real RIGHT NOW, not what the gushing is all about.

...because you're actually considering buying one in the future?!

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

C'mon SV, be straight with us. You know that the only reason you want to know anything about the Pre is so that you can find more reasons to dis' it. Why the hate, man? What did Palm do to you that was so bad?

Ok, as my momma used to tell me, for every bad thing you say about someone, you have to say at least one thing nice. So, how about we start with something easy. Tell us something nice about the Palm product you are using right now. What's something good about it?


"twrock is infamous around these parts"
(from my profile over at Brighthand due to my negative 62 rep points rating)

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A Song For Pre

freakout @ 1/30/2009 3:43:06 PM # Q
All I wanna do is spend all my time with you
But you're so young it's absurd
I'll just keep biding my time
'til you put your little hand in mine
Oh I can't wait for the day
When you finally turn 16!

There are so many rats on a sinking ship
There's so much of you I can't waaaaaaaaaaait
Get to grips
When your halo slips

Ow!

How dare you call this love?
Oooh that's what they say
It's that urge I've gotta fight!
How dare you call this looo-ooo-oove?
Why, it flies in the face of all that is good and is right!

You've got it all
Yeah you're always my first port of call
This is the happiest I've ever been
And I know I should wait
But you lay it all out on a plate
And I'm just a pawn
When the laws of nature intervene

There are so many rats on a sinking ship
There's so much of you I can't waaaaaaaaaaait
Get to grips
With your heinous lips

Ow!

How dare you call this love?
Oooh that's what they say
It's that urge I've gotta fight!
How dare you call this looo-ooo-oove?
Why, it flies in the face of all that is good and is right!

-- The Darkness, How Dare You Call This Love?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLBlmj-UwXQ

Tim
I apologise for any and all emoticons that appear in my posts. You may shoot them on sight.
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro

RE: A Song For Pre
Gekko @ 1/30/2009 4:08:51 PM # Q
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RE: Bumps up against limits - or something - pretty fast
freakout @ 1/31/2009 6:41:41 AM # Q
No way!! A pre-release prototype with a glitch??!

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm shocked. Shocked and appalled.

(Y'know SV, for someone who has utterly no intention of owning a Pre or any other Palm device in the future, you sure spend a lotta time trawling the net for info about it!)

RE: Bumps up against limits - or something - pretty fast
SeldomVisitor @ 1/31/2009 9:17:45 AM # Q
Countering or confirming The Gush is always an interesting exercise.

I think even some Gushers are beginning to ask "Uh...where's the beef!?".

RE: Bumps up against limits - or something - pretty fast
mikecane @ 1/31/2009 12:40:58 PM # Q
/ignore

RE: Bumps up against limits - or something - pretty fast
SeldomVisitor @ 1/31/2009 12:46:09 PM # Q
You type that as if someone somewhere cares.

No, it's simply a giggle.

RE: Bumps up against limits - or something - pretty fast
freakout @ 1/31/2009 3:32:49 PM # Q
Countering or confirming The Gush is always an interesting exercise.

Why on Earth would it be interesting to you, when you don't own a Palm and never intend to?

BTW, I'm still waiting for that explanation of how copy-and-paste is going to create a security hole on the iPhone, and how every other OS vendor has gotten around it. Where's the beef, SV?

Reply to this comment

Lots of work to improve Pre

Palmwins @ 12/2/2009 7:40:08 AM # Q
Fully agree with some comments. Pre is still not a full business smartphone. Too much sacrifices have been done to the Pre which removed several critical items that is required for business users that needed organization.

1) no outlook synchronization - need buy software from Chapura, but still not able to have categories on contact, tasks and memo. The most used functions.
2) no Smartlist to Go from dataviz. There are too much data to be redone to make this switch.
3) No full Doc to Go package

Though I love to have the upgrade, but my Treo 680 is so much more powerful for business functions.

In addition, Palm should come up with a landscape mode slider where the keyboard will be bigger, and viewing documents will be easier. especially spreadsheets.

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